Opening Day Jitters
by chuckb on Apr 9, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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PrintThe table below shows the 21 fastballs Motte threw Monday night. All data is courtesy of MLB’s gameday.
| batter | MPH | ball/strike | result |
|---|---|---|---|
| Sanchez | 96 | strike | double |
| McLouth | 97 | ball | high |
| McLouth | 97 | strike | foul |
| McLouth | 97 | strike | called |
| McLouth | 98 | ball | high |
| Doumit | 97 | ball | high |
| Doumit | 96 | strike | foul |
| Doumit | 98 | strike | foul | LaRoche | 97 | strike | swing |
| LaRoche | 98 | ball | high |
| LaRoche | 97 | strike | single |
| Hinske | 96 | strike | double |
| Moss | 97 | ball | high |
| Moss | 96 | ball | HBP |
| Wilson | 96 | strike | swing |
| Wilson | 96 | strike | foul |
| Wilson | 96 | strike | double |
| Vazquez | 96 | ball | high/inside |
| Vazquez | 95 | strike | called |
| Vazquez | 95 | strike | swing |
| Vazquez | 95 | strike | foul |
| Vazquez | 95 | strike | fly out |
The average velocity on his balls was 97 mph and the average velocity on his strikes was 96.13 mph – not a huge difference. That’s not what I saw on the FSN gun but I’m not sure why I should put a lot more faith in the FSN gun than the MLB gun. Still, 2 of the 3 that hit 98 were balls and 3 of the 7 that hit 97 were balls. All the balls also were high (except for the one that hit Brandon Moss) – an indicator to me that he was overthrowing at times. 15 of his 22 fastballs were in the strike zone. 2 of his first pitch fastballs were 96 mph and drilled for doubles by Sanchez and Hinske. Each of those fastballs was center-cut. They were "get me over" fastballs designed to establish a first pitch strike and Sanchez and Hinske were ready. The Pirates seemed to have a good game plan ready for Motte.
Following each double, Motte started the next hitter off w/ a ball that was high. Two were at 97 mph and one was at 96. When he got hit, he tried to throw just a little harder and it didn’t work. To me, the most problematic PAs were the ones to Adam LaRoche and, of course, Jack Wilson. Both hitters saw three pitches – all of them fastballs – and, after swinging and missing, and seeing a 2nd fastball, were able to time Motte’s 3rd fastball for a base hit. LaRoche’s was a single and Wilson’s was, of course, the game winning double. These PAs seem to encapsulate the concern w/ regard to Motte – namely, that he’s going to have to have an effective secondary pitch to throw to these hitters and keep them off balance. Should he have thrown either one of them the slider? It’s easy to say yes in hindsight but all 3 of them saw fastballs at basically the same speed and were able to get to the third and make it count.
I love the fact that Motte throws hard but these PAs show that big league hitters can hit 97 or 98 when it’s straight and they see it often enough. Interestingly, after LaRoche’s hit, Motte threw the first pitch fastball to Hinske that he hit for a double. The other thing that’s tangentially related to Motte’s 9th inning implosion Monday was the fact that he threw 29 pitches and had just 4 swing-and-misses. It’s not bad but it is slightly lower (13.7%) than the percentage of swinging strikes he recorded last year (15%). It’s hardly a material difference but the fact that they had so many good rips against him is a concern. Also, the Pirates were very aggressive against him. Last year, 15% of Motte’s pitches were called strikes. Monday night, there were only 2 called strikes out of his 29 pitches (6.8%). If hitters were this aggressive against Motte last year would he have had the same degree of success?
Don’t get me wrong – I still like Motte and think he’ll make a successful reliever and, I hope, a very good closer. I’m not, as others are, ready to fire Mo or send Motte to the minors (or flog either or both publicly) b/c he blew a save but, if the first game is any indication, he’s going to have to have a more effective secondary pitch in order to become a successful closer. If other (better) hitters take the same approach the Pirates’ hitters did, they’ll be aggressive and, ultimately, catch up to those 97+ mph fastballs. Additionally, he’s going to have to throw his best fastballs for strikes. If he can’t, and has to dial it back, even 1-2 mph, in order to get it in the zone, it’s going to make it increasingly difficult for him to get people out at this level.
Game thread going up around 1:30. If bad things happen, be nice! I’ll be working and, therefore, unable to follow along.
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95 straight and lacking secondary pitches will not cut it
I personally think he can do better than that and I think his other pitches are improving but we have a pitcher that was sent down that can throw 95 with a very good secondary pitch that would be ideal for this job…
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
Interesting point on Perez...
I basically agree with Charles that this doesn’t spell doom for Motte, and I’m still quite optimistic on his future.
Further, I didn’t disagree with the organization’s decision to send Perez down, but perhaps for different reasons.
In other words, if this outing by Motte (hopefully he’ll be able to rebound quickly, brings Perez back to the big club relatively soon) then this could be a good thing in some ways.
Early in ST I was envisioning a sort of under-construction-nasty-boys-bullpen scenario. Perez’s bumps and bruises may have stalled that, but I am still kind of anxious to see McClellan-Motte-Perez all be in the pen and improving their game.
If those three guys can keep developing… man… this could be a bullpen a guy could set his watch to.
Here’s hoping.
by Scarecrow7775 on Apr 9, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Motte as setup for Perez
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I still like Motte as closer
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 9, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
oops
that third abbreviated paragraph was supposed to read-
In other words, if this outing by Motte (hopefully he’ll be able to rebound quickly) brings Perez back relatively soon then this could be a good thing is some ways.
by Scarecrow7775 on Apr 9, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Second Pitch
I thought the whole point of Motte’s Spring Training was to establish that he had a reliable second and third pitch. It’s pretty confusing that, as soon as Spring Training ends, he’s back to being virtually a one-pitch pitcher.
I’m still of the opinion that he basically freaked on on Monday, and that, hopefully, he’ll pull it together and get back to doing what he was doing during the Spring.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
Confidence
It seemed that once a bouple of baserunners got on against him, that Motte abandoned everything but the fastball. And we saw how that panned out. It is one thing to throw a new pitch with no one on, but with runners threatening him, a pitcher must have the confidence in his second and third pitches to throw them and wriggle out of the inning. He didn’t want to get beat on anything other than his best pitch, it seemed, so he only threw his flat, straight fastball. He got beat with it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
+1
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Apr 9, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
that a secondary pitch could make him a dominant closer, but I think Motte can be effective at that velocity as long as he locates his fastball. He had one bad game, that’s it. He’s hittable for how hard he throws. I still think he’s the best option currently on the roster to pitch in that spot. I hope he gets the opportunity to get in the groove.
How difficult is it to learn
a palm ball or circle change, a la Trevor Hoffman? It seems that if Motte could develop a 85 MPH pitch with the same arm motion, he would be almost unhittable.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:
learning it is simple
in fact i’m sure Motte already knows how to throw it. it is the perfecting part that is difficult to impossible.
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
I'm going to stay away from any more estimations on Motte
until we see him pitch again. His Opening Day meltdown could be an outlier and he may become a shut down closer from this point on, or maybe not. I do agree if he is going to be able to sustain any amount of success his development of a solid secondary pitch is the key. We’ll have to see what his stuff is like the next time he gets the call.
In other areas, who else thinks that Colby Rasmus should be the primary candidate to hit leadoff against lefties for a while? I’ll vote for that. And I think it’s pretty certain now that KBot doesn’t belong in the 2 or 4 spot in the lineup, at least until he can show he’ll be more patient at the plate.
How about this for a while:
VS LHP
Rasmus CF
Freese 3B
El Hombre 1B
Luddy RF
Duncan LF
Yadi C
Khalil SS
Pitcher
Thurston/Ryan 2B
VS RHP
Schu 2B
Rasmus LF
Pujols 1B
Ank CF
Luddy RF
Yadi C
Khalil SS
Freese 3B
Pitcher
Tony probably isn’t going to commit to any sort of consistent lineup for a while. Probably not for at least the first month or so. I can see him tinkering w/ it all season, but I think at some point he’ll need to establish some more defined roles in the order.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
I like the looks of that a lot
It’s clear that Khalil Greene is the new Juan Encarnacion, a batsman who does not have the skill to bat anywhere but sixth in the order or lower. Yet, somehow, TLR apparently sees a versatility to his offensive skills and thusly bats him any- and every-where in the lineup. I don’t understand it. Slot Greene in the sixth or seventh hole and be done with it. It’s clear that Spring Training was the outlier, in my estimation. Greene should never bat in front of Pujols because seven out of ten times Greene is going to make an out.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The good news is
that Greene plays SS, while Encarnacion was an OFer. Greene can be a good player by playing good defense and bashing an occassional extra base hit, while you need more production from your OFers.
I agree
The threshold of offensive production that a SS must pass is much easier than a corner OFer. But, the criteria that should be used for a no. 2 or cleanup hitter are the same no matter what the position. You should have a high-OBP batsman in the no. 2 slot to ensure that Pujols gets as many PAs as possible with runner(s) on in front of him. Likewise, due to Pujols’s on-base skills, the cleanup hitter should be the second-best hitter on the club, so that we stand a better chance of scoring Pujols (and, in an ideal world, our no. 2 hitter, who, due to his high OBP, is also on-base). Unfortunately, TLR does not view the no. 2 slot through the same lens as someone who seeks the lineup that will give the Cards optimal run production.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
duncan vs rhp
you’ve got duncan sitting out vs right-handed pitchers. but his one skill is an ability to mash righties -- career OPS vs them of .900. he’s got to be in there vs righties.
Ankiel
LB, do you think that Ankiel should be included in the OF musical chairs? This would allow Rasmus to play CF and Duncan to get more ABs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i wouldn't do it as a straight right-left platoon
against lefties i’d sit duncan and start ankiel-raz-luddy no matter what. i’d start the same trio in road ballparks with big outfields (e.g. colorado, petco, san fran’s park) no matter who’s pitching, left or right.
i’d only start duncan in parks where his defense is not an issue (including the home park) vs a right-hander -- which probably covers about half the games on the schedule. as to which outfielder sits when duncan starts, that’d depend on who needs a day off, who’s swinging the bat well, who hits that day’s starter well, etc etc.
his defense seems to have improved each year
and when he’s on, I only feel more excited when pujols is batting. I’ll let TLR play the musical OFer game, but I have no problem with a healthy duncan(assuming TLR doesn’t play him hurt) getting a lot of AB’s….I mean PA’s.
his defense is better than it used to be, but he's still
not nearly as good wiht the glove as rasmus and ankiel, and he hits lefties worse than both of them. worse hitter, worse fielder -- there’s never any reason to start him against an LHP.
if you wanted to play him vs an RHP in petco or colorado or some such, i can see the argument -- i wouldn’t do it, but i can see the case for doing it.
I agree
I still find it distressing that MLB as a whole seems to have stood up and acknowledged that defense—particularly OF defense—is integral to success. Yet, TLR insists on keeping Ankiel in CF over Rasmus when the team would be significantly improved defensively with this simply change. With Skip at 2B we could use the extra runs prevented.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
How about
vs. lefties put Raz in RF, Ank in CF, sit Dunc
Then vs. righties put Dunc in LF, Raz CF, sit Ank and keep all of their spots in the order the same…?
I feel Luddy should be in the lineup everyday, but I don’t mind merry-go-rounding the other three.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 9, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this is right
Luddy needs to play everyday (or almost everyday) maybe he gets the occasional day off against a particularly tough righthander. Raz should play pretty much everyday.
@ bgh
I agree completely re: OBP out of the two slot. I was just thanking our lucky stars that Greene/Enc production is coming from the SS now rather than the RF.
I like the look of your lineups.
I would also like to see Colby hit lead-off against lefties until he shows us that he can’t do it. I am not loving Khalil in front of or behind Albert, he needs to hit lower in the order.
Kalhil should hit 7th...
and only seventh. He’s got enough power to clear the bases in front of the pitcher, enough speed to move up on a pitcher’s sac, but not enough OBP to bat higher in the order OR the ninth spot. I prefer Yadi 6th and Greene 7th.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
'tis to tinker
giving that TLR is TLR, and the outfield surplus, and the amount of pawns manning the inner diamond (at least until glaus gets back, if he gets back, then just 2ndbase)…
… yeah, I think it’s safe to say we should all make the necessary mental adjustments needed to cope with endless lineup tinkering this year, if we haven’t already.
But both those lineup look good
by Scarecrow7775 on Apr 9, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
PAs OF THE CARDS LINEUP UNITE!
We must also unite to defeat the reactionary PAs of the agitators in the opposite dugout!
by Scarecrow7775 on Apr 9, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait
Game thread should be going up at 12:30 right? I thought game was at 12:40 today, unless Chuck has gone all ESPN on us and is using Eastern Time
Yeah it is at 12:40
C’mon Chuck! East Coast bias from a Houstoner…. ;)
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 9, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It piqued my interest as well...
/suffering law student
The thought that I have is that the season is over. And that everybody in the game; a fan, a coach, a player, a manager, front office, scouts...surrender. They say, "that's enough," especially after a game like this. But then Christmas comes, New Years, contracts are signed, trades are made, free agents are signed; and then baseball, like the rose beneath the April snow will force it's way to the front again. And we'll have the fever once more.
-Jack
The Colonel
To be competitive this season, we need The Colonel to be sharp. We need him to be the pitcher that bookended his barking arm starts in the middle of the season. Wellemeyer has not been that pitcher in 2009, in Spring Training or last night. It is only one start and it is early, but Wellemeyer looked very dull last night. Had the Cards not been playing the Pirates, I wager that he would not have lasted into the fifth inning. If Wellemeyer continues to give us Jo-El Pineiro-type starts, we are in serious trouble going forward. I’m hopeful that Wellemeyer can turn it around, but after his career-high 190+ IP a year ago and arm problems each of the last two seasons, I would be lying if I said that I wasn’t weary of how The Colonel’s 2009 might pan out.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
If Welley gives us Pineiro numbers, and Pineiro gives us Welley numbers
It’s all even, right?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 9, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Ask yourself:
Do you really think that Jo-El Pineiro is going to throw 190+ innings with 134 SO, 62 BB, a 3.71 ERA?
However, if Jo-El does do that and The Colonel gives Pineiro numbers of the ‘08 vintage, then we likely won’t be competing for an October berth.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
What if Carpenter replaces Looper with significantly better production?
I mean, as long as we’re talking about hypotheticals this early in the year
Even before last night
we shouldn’t have projected that line from Wellemeyer (much less Pineiro) again, imo. Especially the ERA when his FIP was 4.51.
Agreed
I think there’s been a certain amount of covering of ears and shouting LA LA LA when it comes to Welley — the numbers definitely seem to indicate that he’s due for a regression, maybe even a substantial one.
Considering that most of the Pirates' hits last night, it seemed, were dinks, dunks, and grounders with eyes
The other foot may be dropping this year as far as regression is concerned
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 9, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
FIP
The 4.51 FIP is very troublesome. That said, Wellemeyer’s line was as I listed it and I still ask myself whether Pineiro can duplicate it. I don’t think that he can. The question of whether Wellemeyer can duplicate it is as thorny. I fear that he cannot. But, even if Wellemeyer gives us an ERA of 4.00 to 4.20, that’s not bad production for his slot in the roation as our #4 starter.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
No, I don't really think that
But Jo-el had a much better spring than Welley. And, you never know. The Jo-el we extended in 2007 was not the Jo-el we got last year, so maybe if the fluke 2007 Jo-el makes a year-long appearance, and Wellemeyer goes back to being the Wellemeyer he was every year but last year, it would just about even out.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 9, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Wellemeyer's year last year was due to better control of his pitches
last night he didn’t have that, so he needs to get back in the driver’s seat of his own mind
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
PAs
To me, the most problematic PAs were the ones to Adam LaRoche and, of course, Jack Wilson. Both hitters saw three pitches – all of them fastballs – and, after swinging and missing, and seeing a 2nd fastball, were able to time Motte’s 3rd fastball for a base hit. LaRoche’s was a single and Wilson’s was, of course, the game winning double. These PAs seem to encapsulate the concern w/ regard to Motte – namely, that he’s going to have to have an effective secondary pitch to throw to these hitters and keep them off balance.
Very pleased to see this development. I would also like to add that Colby Rasmus was 2-for-5 last night; that is, he got on-base 2 times in 5 PAs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Our movement is strong and our spirit willing!
We must continue to partake in the glorious revolutionary progress towards abandonment of bourgeoisie At-bats!
as Mao (kind of) said
long life (read: “hits”), long life (read: “hits”), long, long life (read: “hits”)
by Scarecrow7775 on Apr 9, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Vive le PAs!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
PAs OF THE CARDS LINEUP UNITE!
We must also labor to undermine the reactionary PA unification efforts of the agitators in the opposite dugout!
by Scarecrow7775 on Apr 9, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, comrade.
Contrary to our stylistic choices, we cannot allow a universal revolution to undermine our competitive advantage. One of the inherent contradictions of Saberist theory.
I;m writing a paper
contrasting the French and American revolutions, from a political stand point, and came to this site as a get away…..
Thanks :)
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
Coolness
Pretty classic topic. I know it’s cliche to make fun of the French and all (and really, anybody who has been to France and had anything to eat there instantly likes France at least a little) but we will always be able to claim that our revolution did not include something called The Reign of Terror.
movie reference failure.
Jean Girard: [has Ricky in an arm lock] I will let you go, Ricky. But first, I want you to say…“I… love… crepes.”
Cal Naughton, Jr.: Don’t you say it, Ricky. These colors don’t run.
Ah, sorry
Never got around to seeing it. I think I was attacked by a cougar on my way to the theater.
I'm confused
you haven’t seen it, but reference one of the scenes?
if you really haven’t seen it, do so. Maybe i’m still immature, but one of my favorite movies to quote.
Texas Ranger: The teacher asked me what was the capital of North Carolina. I said Washington, D.C.
Cal Naughton, Jr.: Bingo.
Ricky Bobby: Nice.
Texas Ranger: She said “No, you’re wrong.” I said “You got a lumpy butt.” She got mad at me and yelled at me and I pissed in my pants and I never did change my pee-pants all day. I’m still sittin’ in my dirty pee-pants.
Cal Naughton, Jr.: I wet my bed until I was nineteen. There’s no shame in that.
I've heard my brother reference it plenty, so I know a couple jokes
That is hilarious, and I don’t even know the context.
French food....
Really? When I was in France the food was pretty bland. Now Italy on the other hand.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 9, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I love both
Eating a French meal in France or an Italian meal in Italy is a wonderful treat. One fo the best things about traveling, IMO, is the food.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Apr 9, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Or drinking a German beer in Germany.
I only partly agree with you: half of the best part of traveling is the food; the other half is the booze.
Didn't lboros also point out
the conversation between molina and motte before the last pitch to doumit? The next night on the pregame, duncan detailed that conversation, saying that molina was telling motte that he had to trust him and throw his slider. funny, that was the exact thing that lboros suggested
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Why do I
read the comments on stltoday? It makes me like the Cardinals a little less. Idiots!
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
But recognizing
that you have a problem is the first step toward getting help. J/K. Stay around here and your IQ will gain back the points it lost from reading Cards Talk.
Those comments and THAT GUY at games
that calls fixates on one of our players that made an error or a mistake and calls him all sorts of fun names, those make me a little less proud to be a Cardinal fan…but I have to realize that there are always idiots and people who can’t ever be happy about anything and that is just sad. So, I try to ignore them and hang out in places that are less mindnumbing like here…at games I usually tell the guy off and hope enough people help me to shut him up.
I used to read those as well
but then I just couldn’t take the stupidity anymore.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Jason Motte's Mechanics
For those who are interested, I just completed an analysis of Jason Motte’s pitching mechanics using some HD footage I shot a couple of weeks ago at ST…
- Analysis of the Pitching Mechanics of Jason Motte
The bottom line is that I’m not a fan (and I think he needs to develop a change-up).
P.S. I don’t know what Alex Eisenberg’s been smoking. His analysis of Motte’s mechanics is way off and in many cases simply wrong.
Chris...
That is NOT Jason Motte. That is Josh Kinney. Jason Motte wears number 60. Kinney wears 52. Motte is a burly S.O.B. Kinney is lankier. Kinney’s best pitch is a wipeout slider. Motte has no earthly clue what a slider is. Also, Kinney throws nowhere near as hard as Motte.
It’s no wonder you don’t like Eisenberg’s analysis because you’re not even analyzing the same guy.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Apr 9, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
the page no longer loads
so I’m guessing he realized his mistake. Kinney did in fact have arm problems though, so I guess he was right in theory, but not person
Eisenberg
I’ll fix the cross-linking of the clips later on today.
However, in the meantime I will say that it’s dangerous for Eisenberg to advocate breaking the hands with the elbows, because that can lead to timing problems. It’s also ridiculous to suggest that there’s any relationship between breaking the hands with the elbows and hooking of the wrist.
Barry Zito breaks his hands with his elbows and also hooks his wrist.
For once, I wholeheartedly agree
It’s also ridiculous to suggest that there’s any relationship between breaking the hands with the elbows and hooking of the wrist.
I’m not sure what he’s talking about here. Those two don’t have anything to do with each other. Aaron Crow does a similar thing.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Apr 9, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
3 straight fastballs
To me, the most problematic PAs were the ones to Adam LaRoche and, of course, Jack Wilson. Both hitters saw three pitches – all of them fastballs – and, after swinging and missing, and seeing a 2nd fastball, were able to time Motte’s 3rd fastball for a base hit. LaRoche’s was a single and Wilson’s was, of course, the game winning double. These PAs seem to encapsulate the concern w/ regard to Motte – namely, that he’s going to have to have an effective secondary pitch to throw to these hitters and keep them off balance. Should he have thrown either one of them the slider? It’s easy to say yes in hindsight but all 3 of them saw fastballs at basically the same speed and were able to get to the third and make it count.
Wasn’t he also shaking of Yadi who was calling for the slider on both those PAs.?
So, um....whose pitching today?
It says the Cardinals are going to take it safe with Carp. If Carp throws 65 pitches in the first 3 innings, who is pitching innings 5-9? Thompson has pitched two days in a row and Franklin pitched last night.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 9, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
ankiel, from cf
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Apr 9, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Never thought I'd say this, but
Where’s Aaron Miles when you need him?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 9, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
or spiezio (sp?)
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Apr 9, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
does Steve Phillips get paid or is he a volunteer intern?
I just clipped this from an article I just read over at ESPN about whether a Central team can challenge the Cubs. To quote:
“Still, we should remember that the St. Louis Cardinals won 86 games a year ago without a single win from Chris Carpenter or Adam Wainwright, both of whom were hurt for a good part of the year.”
wow
oops
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Apr 9, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
this was actually from the freaking cover story on the MLB page they have
link
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/notebook?page=bbtn
hmm, guess you’ll have to copy and paste
by Scarecrow7775 on Apr 9, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Additionally, he’s going to have to throw his best fastballs for strikes.
This is the key right here, chuck. I don’t buy the argument that people should just automatically dial their best stuff back in order to throw more strikes. Instead, especially people with big arms, pitchers need to hone their mechanics to a point where they can channel their best velocities to hit a spot. If that doesn’t work out…
If he can’t, and has to dial it back, even 1-2 mph, in order to get it in the zone, it’s going to make it increasingly difficult for him to get people out at this level.
Motte’s biggest tool is his 97-8 mph fastball. If that turns into a 94-5 mph fastball, it is not the same weapon. I doubt he would be particularly effective throwing 94-5 without a better second pitch, whereas you could make the argument that he could survive throwing 97-8 as a set-up guy or something. What we’re talking about is the difference between command and control…I have always considered control to be the ability to throw strikes, command is the ability to throw your best pitches to a specific spot.
I’m not going to be overly concerned right now until he stinks it up for 5 appearances or so. I’m willing to chalk it up to opening day jitters or something like that. Hopefully he gets his fastball going where he wants it and has, well, something else that works.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Apr 9, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions
Sad and off-topic
22-year-old top Angels pitching prospect Nick Adenhart died last night in a car accident. He just threw six scoreless innings last night. He was hit by a van blowing a red light. Three people died in the accident, including another unnamed person affiliated with the Angels.
I think we all know how gut-wrenching this kind of thing can be, even just for the fans. Keep the Adenhart’s friends and family in your thoughts.
What a shame
RIP, Nick.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 9, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Our thoughts and prayers go out to his friends and family
It is always a sad thing when someone passes, but when someone in the prime of their life with so much left to give is tragically taken, it is that much more difficult.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Wow, and on the night
of his first ML start too? Just awful.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 9, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
I saw the news on the crash this morning but they didn’t identify anyone or that they were connected with the Angels. Terrible News.
Tragic
He had a pretty good start last night, it would seem. A ton of ability. RIP Nick.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Apr 9, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
My heart just started hurting a little.
Life isn’t fair
The thought that I have is that the season is over. And that everybody in the game; a fan, a coach, a player, a manager, front office, scouts...surrender. They say, "that's enough," especially after a game like this. But then Christmas comes, New Years, contracts are signed, trades are made, free agents are signed; and then baseball, like the rose beneath the April snow will force it's way to the front again. And we'll have the fever once more.
-Jack
Lineup
Per Cardinal Beat…
For Chris Carpenter’s third start at Busch Stadium since the fireworks popped at the end of the 2006 World Series, manager Tony La Russa continued his tour of 162 lineups in 162 games by giving outfielder Rick Ankiel the day and turning center over to the rookie.
I just wanted you all to read it—twice—like I did. Here’s the starting 9:
Skip Schumaker, 2B
Colby Rasmus, CF
Albert Pujols, 1B
Chris Duncan, LF
Ryan Ludwick, RF
Khalil Greene, SS
Yadier Molina, C
Joe Thurston, 3B
Chris Carpenter, P
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Rasmus is impressing in his first few MLB games
He’s driving the ball, but also showing a keen eye at the plate. I think he and Lud should start just about every day. Ank and Dunc should platoon based on splits and whichever one is playing better.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 9, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
definitely driving the ball
in may those two warning track shots had are going out.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Some fellow with a drastic platoon split
Hence the beavy of lefties in our lineup.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Ross Ohlendorf
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
VolsnCards5
The game starts in about an hour, not tonight. I’m disappointed b/c I’ll miss Carp’s first start.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I know a day game on a thursday =
LAME SQUARED
but I guess no one would go tonight when its 6 degrees
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like this lineup, except for Thurston
That said, imagine if Glaus was in there instead, hitting after Ludwick. Mmmmmmmm….
Why?
Thurston is killing the ball thus far, and gives us a legit weapon in speed.
If something happens to Skip, I say pencil him in as the starting 2B. Until them, keep finding him AB’s while he is swinging a hot bat.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
i, too, am becoming a thurston fan
its great to see some speed on the basepaths and the pop is nice, too
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Apr 9, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no problem starting Thurston right now
he is on a hot streak
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's someone
who comes off the bench long term, but I love his athletic ability. He’s a good fastball hitter and a decent defender. It was a nice signing.
He's a very useful bench player
I just hope that TLR does not overuse him. He is the new Grit Miles, but with a bit more pop in his swing and substantially more speed. Unfortunately, Thurston can’t really play SS, otherwise, he would be the ideal TLR utility guy. However, if TLR pencils him into an OF slot at any point this season, I’m going to pull my hair out.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
please send pictures...
cause you know it’s gonna happen.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
Outfield rotation in effect
Ank has the day off, that means Razzums has the day off next I guess
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
We really should destroy RH pitching
We can trot out 4 lefties, a guy with a reverse platoon split and Pujols.
Not afraid to nitpick
We did on tuesday.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Let the Rasmus era begin, again
this time from CF. I really wish I could watch the game, maybe I’ll just drop out, who needs college anyway?
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
I'll have class at the same time as the game
But my professor is a fan, so maybe I can convince her to turn on a TV or radio.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 9, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
class is overrated
you only really need to go 1/2 the time at most.
(studies have shown, that 60% of the time, this approach works everytime)
Yeah
but I have a quiz today and if I miss this class four or more times I automatically fail. Plus it’s a class about Jesus, so if I don’t go, God will be mad at me.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 9, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Thurston's Swing
I’ll post some clips in a bit, but let me say that Joe Thurston’s swing is simply fugly. He must be a heck of an athlete to be able to pull that swing off.
Imagine what he could do with a decent swing.
It is pretty ugly
And likely stunts his ability to slug.
I still can’t over his baserunning gaffe last night. What a horrendous play. How do you make that mistake? We are down 3 runs, which means that not only does he have to score, but the players on-deck and in-the-hole while Thurston was appearing at the plate, also had to cross home plate safely. This basically means that there was absolutely no reason for Thurston to try to advance to third.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i agree
but i have forgiven him. the throw, from his angle, probably looked like it was going into right field and Laroche seemed to get to it quickly and made a good throw. as soon as I saw the throw, i said “go! go!” and fwiw i thought he was safe and what good is home field advantage if you don’t get the close calls?
If Oquendo was, then he should be scolded
Again, there was no double play situation to eliminate. Two players had to reach base safely and score to tie the game. If that happens, Thurston would inevitably have scored. There was absolutely no benefit to him attempting to advance.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I didn't see
but the angle was from behind the LFer.
and now I know why they have 1B trail the runner on doubles
Birdland 10@10
Goold has a further explanation of Thurston’s poor decision:
Joe Thurston further explained his decision to race for third in the ninth inning Wednesday night: He said he’s always been taught to know how many bases you can get and look for the extra one. He knew he had a double so "out of the box I’m looking for a triple." What La Russa stresses, however, is to play the scoreboard. Thurston was thinking triple, not thinking still down by three runs. Thurston’s wasn’t closer to winning the game at third than he would have been at second base. The infielder, who is starting at third today, said the only good play is a play where he is standing up. In that situation, any slide into a base a bad decision, even if he’s safe. As the manager said: "He could have been standing at first and that still would have been a good play."
How do you not run the bases in accordance with the situation when you are 30-year-old professional baseball player?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Apr 9, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he got caught up in the moment.
His adrenaline was going and for whatever reason he thought he could reach safely.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
He watched
Yadi leg out a triple and he figured it must be easy, especially if you go in head first :)
I was at the game last night...
and had first row seats in 509 (Cards BP). I my girlfriend and I yelled down at him and told him we saw him play in ST and still love him. He got a big grin on his face. He did look kinda down, but you’ve gotta figure he’ll pull it together
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
Definitely
I have him in one of my deeper fantasy leagues. Should be interesting to see how he makes the jump from single-A ball.
I agree
I don’t think he has any business in a ML rotation right now, but I’m interested nonetheless.
He certainly has the stuff...
I was actually talking with a Tigers scout at the Mizzou game a few days ago and he seemed to indicate that it was a heavily GM influenced decision.
Not afraid to nitpick
That's interesting
I wasn’t doubting his stuff at all. But jumping from the Florida State League to the American League is not something that many people can do. But if he can, good for him.
He's looking pretty good so far
got a DP to end the 1st inning. Struck out Barrett w/ a great bender to end the 2nd w/ guys on 1st & 3rd. He’s sitting somewhere in the low 90s w/ his fastball (FSN’s gun is about a degree or 2 slower than MLB’s). That thing has lots of movement, looks more like a sinker than a FB.
About Thurston going to 3B
keep in mind something from the Cardinals perspective. In 2007 they beat the Pirates twice in early April at PNC because the Pirates threw to the wrong base. The Cardinals “pushed” on the basepaths and Jason Bay threw the ball to the wrong base, allowing runners to advance and score.
Now, I know Jason Bay is gone but that doesn’t mean Oquendo may have been trying to do the same thing. If he’s going to do it for Gary Bennett, he might as well for super speedy Joe Thurston.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 9, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions
ah, gary bennett.
good times. good times.
you just made me feel good about jason larue, HL.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, then you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
If that makes you feel good about Lastache...
then the name Einar Diaz might get you to start a fan club or something.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
i have blacked out that name forever.
utility infielder?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, then you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So much horrible.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
i can haz game thread?
iz olmoast tyme. iz warmup.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, then you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
this is it until 130
chuck went eastern on us
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
but it's on at one-thirty eastern, not central. yes?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, then you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
yes but he programed it for 130 central
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite LOLcat evar
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
hey look, somebody got nyjer morgan out. go figure.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, then you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
and freddy sanchez.
look. the pirates do not have ty cobb and joe dimaggio leading off.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, then you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
With sink
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 9, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
1-2-3
Nothing but fastballs, only two balls (hehe)
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
great inning carp.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
too bad i didn't get to see it
mlb.tv didn’t come on until after the inning was over.
dumb
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
9 PITCHES!
sorry for the caps lock, but then it does seem like it should be screamed
great to have carp back
+1!
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Apr 9, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
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