2009 Game 1 Overflow Thread 2
by azruavatar on Apr 6, 2009 7:09 PM EDT
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PrintSo that inning kinda sucked. Needs more fastballs, imo. Less sloppy breaking pitches.
Try to contain your anger to some extent. I suggest more franklins.
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He could have smoked it right at Ankiel, though
It was well-placed, regardless of how hard he hit it
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
We don't have a closer
I don’t know if we were watching but he had nothing today. Any major league batter can hit a straight fastball in this league. And Perez couldn’t even make the team.
You know I was watching. He had a great slider that he didn’t have last year. Have a little patience.
He had control of both. He threw strikes, didn’t walk anyone, and painted the edges pretty well. Balls in play will fall for hits sometimes.
dude, stop
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
Did you watch today?
I have not seen enough of Motte to truly judge his ability and i really like the kid. I think him or Perez should be our closer this year, no question.
But the way he is pitching today was horrific, no movement on the fastball. No location to get strikeouts. Pathetic
stop trying to pick a fight
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
From the community guidelines:
“there’s a difference between making a critical point and pounding your fists on the floor. if all you have to offer is the latter, do not post.”
At this point, you are fist-pounding.
Ok fine,
Motte could not locate his fastball today. He could not strike anyone out with his slider. The kid has to locate his fastball because it has no movement. He looked awful today and the Pirate crushed his pitching. these were not lucky hits, these were doubles. If they make Motte the closer and send Perez down to Memphis then he better be able to get a major league player out
by thoran85 on Apr 6, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LAST SEASON
161 games left. calm down dude. it will be ok. got outside. get some fresh (cold) air and just remember, there will be more games this year.
Yes
Honestly people. This was game one. And this was a rookie trying to earn his first ML save. Nervous much? I know I would be, and you would be too. The mindless, negative ranting like the season is already lost is pointless.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 6, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
let's see
first season opener, he was probably a little too amped up, and it was obvious he didn’t have his A+ fastball today
seriously, are people gonna be this pissy after every loss?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I really do
I don’t see how some people will make it through the first week of the season being this emotional after the first game.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
when you set a league record in blown saves the year before
…and the front office can’t sign a proper closer for the new season
people can be more than this pissy
by Brianzaredbird on Apr 6, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
he has proven his isn't a closer
after one game?
Really?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Did you have $1 billion (maybe an exaggeration) for Rodriguez or Fuentes?
I didn’t. The Cardinals aren’t made of money
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Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
He gave up 4 runs.
That’s a little more than a “few well placed flyballs.”.
Stop sugarcoating it.
I get a "D" in common sense ... and an "F" in general helping.
Alright.
Everybody to a neutral corner.
Jason Motte did not pitch well today. Skip probably should have gotten to the ball that Wilson hit. Plenty of blame all around. Everyone take a breath and calm down.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Apr 6, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
No one's even talking about the real goat here
If Ryan had hit that fly ball 10 feet further in the bottom of the 8th, it wouldn’t have been a save situation.
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 6, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
still
they might of still sent Motte out there to finish the game.
and Ryan? i doubt he’ll ever hit another HR in his career unless it’s wind aided. He had 4 HRs his rookie year after hitting a total of 6 his entire minor league career of 5 years, he doesn’t have that kind of power, and i would of been amazed if he had it on such a cold day with the wind blowing out to right field instead of left.
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
Oh, I know
I figure Motte may have still come in to finish even if it was 6-2 or 7-2, just to have him close out the opening day game (kind of like how Izzy came in to pitch the 9th with a 10-2 lead in his first Cards game, which incidentally was the only opening day I’ve ever been to and also really cold). I was just making a stupid little joke (the key word there probably being “stupid”) about Ryan to get in on the blame game.
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 7, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
i dunno
they weren’t playing Wilson deep because he doesn’t hit for that much power.
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
duncan probably would have caught it...
mainly because he always lines up 20 feet deeper than necessary, to keep balls from going over his head.
I imagine that the GOB find this hilarious.
- So, to ease his pain, you're supposed to take him to a ball game?
- Yes.
of course they do
they are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling
bastards
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
And this is why you're like 0-60 at Cardinals games :P
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
it's a natural reaction
to a serious implosion. Maybe unfair to the kid, but really you can’t blame people for showing some emotion. He’d boo himself.
actually, you can.
controlling your emotions is part of becoming an adult.
by tom s. on Apr 6, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No question booing is warranted today.
Biggest problem last year was closing. What happened today? A blown save!
A Boooooooo
Get out
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PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 6, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a good way to instill confidence in the kid
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Send him to Memphis, this isn't the Pirates
You don’t work your command out of the Cardinals bullpen!
Who would you bring up then?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
He hit
one batter. So we draw the conclusion that he has no command? Puh-leaaaaase.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 6, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. good and bad performance is to be expected.
booing should be reserved for unsportsmanlike conduct.
boo players who don’t leg out ground balls or who flip off little kids in the stands.
booing somebody who hangs a couple pitches or commits an error is being a spoiled brat.
by tom s. on Apr 6, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
yeah, that's my issue - we are not the Cubs
Throwing balls back? Booing the rookie closer?
I would like to see a difference between us and them, thanks.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He is, should be, a grown man
I think he can handle some booing. The booing was clearly aimed at the organization and staff for not addressing the primary need in the offseason.
so if he comes back after this
and Motte, Perez, Franklin, Kinney have great success at converting saves, they still didn’t address it? Are you giving up on him and the team after one game?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Agreed...
We’re giving up on a talented rookie with an upper-90s fastball after one bad game in 30-degree weather on opening day? When only a couple of balls against him were hit well? One of the reasons I’m always proud to be a Card fan is that we’ve traditionally kept baseball in perspective, and been passionate fans without resorting to the sense of entitlement that leads to relentless booing and throwing things on the field. That kind of thing really ruins the fun of a game for me. And it was amazingly fun, even if the result was as disappointing as it was. I know it’s natural to get mad and boo and all when you’re in the heat of a game, but I still wish people just wouldn’t do it.
by I Like Bob Dylan on Apr 6, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
i really think
he overthrew his arm warming up in the bullpen.
we all saw it on TV, motte was up and throwing the second Ludwick hit that homerun, and then the inning lasted even longer, i’m sure the bench coach was trying to tell him to not get too worked up in the ’pen.
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
if you can imagine being in front of 40,000 people booing you
and you really do it, I think you wouldn’t be so glib about what it means to be a grown man.
that’s not something ordinary people face.
ordinary people don't play major league baseball
by thoran85 on Apr 6, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
isn't that
the basis of jose canseco’s next book?
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
sure they do. they come from the same places you and i do.
they have families. they have insecurities. people who play baseball are ordinary people.
scott spiezio’s an ordinary guy.
so was josh hancock.
but if you want to say that we should just pile abuse on them with impunity and let them deal with the stress, then, by all means, go ahead.
What's the league minimum now?
You get paid the bucks to perform in pressure situations against the best in the world. Not defending the booers (anymore) but if you get paid by the bucketload, you gotta be able to take the heat.
I’m ordinary people.. Most ordinary people’s incomes aren’t considered a low income when paid over $500,000.
Again, not defending poor sports, but professional baseball players are not normal people. The paycheck does make them different, if for no other reason than if they get released right now, any one of them will make more than a heart surgeon.
Baseball Fever.... Catch it!
just because someone makes a lot of money
doesn’t make them un-ordinary. it just makes them rich. they are still humans.
there's a difference between typical 'heat' associated with
being a star performer — public scrutiny, attention — and actual meanness on the part of spectators.
it’s one thing to fall down at a performance and deal with the embarassment. it’s another to have people throw rotten fruit at you.
um.. yeah.
I wasn’t aware that any ass wipes were throwing fruit…. that oversteps the boundaries… but booing because of poor performance – whether individual or teamwise … wait… I don’t want to defend booers again…
I’ll just bow out now and hope for a better tomorrow.
Baseball Fever.... Catch it!
You may not make 400k a year
but you also probably don’t get taxed @ 39% and are able to work past your mid 30’s.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
and
you have to pay money to your agent, and who knows what else that’s in contracts, and it’s not like the money comes in in one lump sum
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
how is that clear?
I don’t know who was being booed, so it wasn’t clear to me. It’s one game, some of us need to relax a little or it’s going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong season.
Puh-leez
A bit self-righteous. Let’s pick it up in the bottom half.
Should people not cheer home runs, either?
After all, saying ‘hurrah’ hardly seems like an adult in control of his emotions.
by notmorganfreeman on Apr 6, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
why would you control a pleasant emotion?
i control myself from punching people when I am angry, not from congratulating them when they do a good job.
by tom s. on Apr 6, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
not really
they’re reactions to the performance. If you can’t boo, then you can’t cheer.
I get a "D" in common sense ... and an "F" in general helping.
That's fine, but you're wrong.
Just because one is positive and the other is negative doesn’t change anything. They’re both emotional outbursts.
You can’t tell your fans they only have the right to cheer and not show displeasure.
I get a "D" in common sense ... and an "F" in general helping.
and c'mon
EVERY single one of felt the same emotion the moment Motte blew the save, some more than others, but it was the same emotion
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
Class
The difference is class. It is a gut reaction to boo. It is a gut reaction to cheer. But it is the effect that booing has that makes it classless in some situations. It is with holding a gut reaction that would be poorly received that gives a person class, in any situation.
I really don't want to ever read this
booing conversation again. We have this same argument every year on VEB and it’s incredibly tiresome. If people want to boo, let them. You aren’t going to change their minds.
neither do i
booing is childlike. cheering is natural. there’s not much point in booing anything, imo
both are ...
cheering is childlike, fun, and supportive. Booing is childlike, mean-spirited, and cruel.
- So, to ease his pain, you're supposed to take him to a ball game?
- Yes.
I'll keep that in mind at my kid's next piano recital.
if those little rug rats start missing notes, i’m gonna boo as loud as I can.
no. i just think "if you can't boo, you can't cheer," makes no sense.
you can in fact cheer without booing.
i didn't say you did. you did however say
If you can’t boo, then you can’t cheer.
and that’s not true. and I didn’t say no one can ever or should ever be allowed to boo. or that the booing police should arrest them.
personal courtesy and basic respect for human dignity suggests we shouldn’t boo people for a simple lapse in their performance. you shouldn’t boo motte for one performance anymore than you should point and laugh at someone who trips on the street.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make by quoting me.
In no way does that say if you cheer you have to boo. It says if you restrict one form of expression you have to restrict the other.
It’s called options. Not mandatory. You may choose to not boo or cheer, but no one is telling you you can’t do either. Btw, we’re also living in the real world here.
And I’m not saying I’d have booed him. Honestly, I wouldn’t have. I’m simply arguing for the right to do it.
I get a "D" in common sense ... and an "F" in general helping.
i freely recognize that booing is protected by the first
amendment.
i was suggesting that it should not be done because it’s childish and discourteous and kind of sad.
News flash.
There are a lot of dumb ass people in this world and there are a lot of dumb ass Cardinal fans (the odds are just there and you did notice the idiots throwing baseballs on the field int the 8th, right?).
Now, if people start booing simply because the Cardinals lose a game, then I’m all with you. But, to completely implode with a two run lead, well…you’re going to see emotion.
And honestly, today’s world is a lot different than it was 10 years ago. I see it every day. I work in a high school and kids pretty much have no respect for adults (even the good ones). I get called “dude” or “dog” or simply by my last name (i.e., no “Mr.” no “Coach”) every single day, multiple times a day and for the most part, they don’t even realize it’s disrespectful. Well, those kids have been becoming adults for a few years now and it’s not getting any better.
Basically, you either deal with it or you drive yourself crazy bitching and moaning about it.
I get a "D" in common sense ... and an "F" in general helping.
Heh.
I have no idea how many times I’ve told a boy to pull his pants up (wait…that didn’t come out the way I wanted it to!!!!!)
I get a "D" in common sense ... and an "F" in general helping.
i sympathise
i dunno how some parents raise their kids when they act that disrespectful in school or wearing the clothes the way they do. I guess if they’re in high school they’re a little too old for those disney teen shows that are somewhat decent ways of acting respectful to older people.
good joke with the boy pants lol
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
Don't be afraid to take a walk, Dick
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
What year is this? At least you knew what you were (not) going to get with Izzy
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
i dunno
if izzy does well with the rays, then it’ll prove the last few years izzy has been good year-bad year-good year-bad year
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
2008 all over again?
Unfortunately, I had that thought briefly in my head as we entered the 9th. I was happy to see Motte go to 0-2 on Wilson, but then MLB.TV went on commercial and I missed the Wilson double that cleared the bases.
I’m going to give Motte a break. He’s new in the spot of being the closer. Give him a chance to break himself in.
Welcome to Baseball Heaven.
Very mature comment
from one of the younger posters here. Motte will have to learn this lesson sometime, I just wish it wasn’t on opening day. But, stuff happens, what you gonna do? I’m going to move on and hope for better things tomorrow.
and
the Pirates weren’t chasing the high fastballs like most teams were in spring training.
I’m glad he struck out McLouth with a slider though, that was nice. he just needed to hit the corners better, preferably the low corners
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
Whew! Glad we got Masher Greene in the cleanup
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
See, now Greene just needs to bloop
and Thudwick can blast us all home. Tony can take his 2nd curtain call of the day.
pujols=awesome
and yet greene gets to bat. should be studwick!
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 6, 2009 7:15 PM EDT reply actions
apu!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
cmon and let the games begin
confusion will be my epitaph
I think I have more sigs than gdm now, hah!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2009 7:15 PM EDT reply actions
FYI
There are 161 more games. Someone will emerge to close games. We’ve got a little bit of time to figure it out still.
I still believe in Perez & Motte.
+1
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
margin for error...
… is very low for this team, tho. can’t give up too many games before we get it straight.
it's not like he pulled an Ankiel or anthing
it’s just one blown save
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
No joke
The Phillies lost last night too. The World Champions. I guess they have no chance to repeat now….
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 6, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
and the yanks are losing to the orioles
"Statistics mean nothing to the individual"
"You are what you eat and you clearly went out and devoured a big fat guy"
anyone who thought they'd go through
the entire season w/o blowing a save is delusional. It’s too bad it happened in game 1 but it happened. He’s going to have to learn from it.
i did kind of hope, though
that they wouldn’t have 2 blown saves after the first game of the year.
- So, to ease his pain, you're supposed to take him to a ball game?
- Yes.
he lost a ton of velocity over the offseason, but no one really noticed because he’s a pirate
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
Well shit
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
In all my excitement for opening day
i forgot how much loses ruin my days during the season.
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
Especially Blown Saves in the 9th innining of Opening Day
(((Demoralized)))
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 6, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
frakin pirates!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
cmon and let the games begin
confusion will be my epitaph
I think I have more sigs than gdm now, hah!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions
well that was fun
2008 all overrrr again.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 6, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions
I wonder if predomo could've closed this out?
It’s time to stop giving Mo a free pass.
by Walking Underwear on Apr 6, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions
no actually I'm not serious
but just to be clear then you’re saying perdomo would’ve given up 4 or more in the 9th huh? You must be a genius to have that kind of power of prediction. Tell me, on what do you base your conclusion that perdomo would’ve blown the save too?
by Walking Underwear on Apr 6, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're ok with 31 blown saves?
Because from what I can tell the only veteran experience he added to the bull pen was dennys reyes. Sure I want to drink the koolaid that is jason motte and chris perez but motte looked very hittable today and they didn’t think enough of perez to keep him over the others. All I’m sying is the closer roll was a hole to be filled. In fact he tried to fill it with Brian Fuentes and failed so don’t tell me a closer wasn’t perceived as a need by the team. The fact is the hole remains to be filled and for that Mo should recieve a bad grade. And by the way my original comment (I wonder if Perdomo could’ve closed this out?) was meant to be rhetorical and sarcastic but the subtlety must’ve escaped you.
by Walking Underwear on Apr 6, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
so Motte has failed as a closer
because he blew one save?? He gets ONE chance? good thing you’re not in charge of the team
Could you point out where I said that?
All I said about Motte was that he looked very hittable today. Please just ask yourself a few questions. Did the team need to fill a hole at the closer’s role in the offseason? And did they fill that hole? My answers are yes, they needed to find a closer and no, they didn’t get one. Even Tony Larussa does not want to label Motte as THE closer does he? Why is that? I think its because Motte is as yet unproven as closer. In other words Tony’s not sure he can handle it yet. Motte may still be a hall of fame closer someday but for now the manager of the team would have to fess up and say they do not have an established closer. My point is I’m pretty sure Tony asked for a closer in the offseason and Mo was unable to provide.
by Walking Underwear on Apr 6, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
you said
“The fact is the hole remains to be filled”… and that “Mo should recieve (sic) a bad grade”…
My question is this: Does Mo get a passing grade if he signs Fuentes? We would lose our first round draft pick and have a huge contract on the books. Plus, Fuentes couldn’t keep the closer job in Colorado and had an ERA over 10 in the spring. That woudn’t make me any more comfortable. What exactly did he do wrong here? And what would you have done differently?
I only used Fuentes to make the case that they new the closer roll was a need
and that Mo failed to fill that need. It is not for me to say what I would’ve done but I have every right as a money spending fan of the team to say when I think he’s done a bad job. And I think he’s done a bad job because he failed to add a closer. Plain and simple. The team blew 31 saves last year and I think finding an established closer should’ve been his top priority. I know Fuentes wanted to play in LA. I’m not a GM so I don’t know what else could’ve been done. Maybe a sweeter deal for seattle’s JJ Putz than the Mets put together. The point is I’m not a waiter either but I know when I’m receiving poor service at a restaurant. And I know the Cardinals needed a guy who could close. Do they have that in Motte? Let’s hope so but I’d feel better not having to just hope they found a closer.
by Walking Underwear on Apr 6, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
your argument is not persuasive
Nobody here is a GM, but people do have opinions. If you’re going to criticize, it’d be nice if you gave a plausible idea that you would have preferred.
The Mets got Putz in a 3-team, 12-player trade (and the Mets dealt 7 of those players away). He was not a free agent. The Cardinals would have been hard-pressed to involve themselves in something like that. And K-Rod signed for 3 years, $37 million. I’m glad Mo didn’t buy a closer on the market, as they are usually not worth the money. Especially when you have guys like Perez & Motte around.
Are you just frustrated because of today’s game? I don’t really see your point.
I don't really see yours
How could I possibly give an answer as to what I would’ve done? You could put a scenario together where you would have made this trade or that trade, or signed this or that free agent but it would all be based in total fantasy. How could anyone ever know for sure what a team would or wouldn’t take for one of its better pitchers in trade? The GM of a team is paid to figure out how to get that closer when its needed. A closer was needed in St Louis and I’ve yet to see one. And apparently I’m not the only one who thinks so, as the team itself refuses to name Motte the closer. Mozeliak needed to find a closer and he didn’t in my opinion. I respect that you disagree with me. And that you are ready to crown Motte the closer. I admit I remain optimistic for Motte and this team but it would’ve been nice to see a proven closer in the ninth today. It would’ve been nice if the GM could’ve gotten a closer. That’s what he’s paid to do. Instead he signed denny reyes, promoted a triple A relief pitcher, and let Perdomo go in the rule 5.
by Walking Underwear on Apr 6, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not crowning anyone, Denny Green
But Motte was impressive last year in AAA and the majors, and he was impressive in ST, so I’m not going to judge his performance after 1 game. Today sucked. Yeah, I know that. And if he continues to get results like today, he shouldn’t be pitching in high leverage situations.
You could definitely give an answer as to what you would have done. There were so many free agents available, and we didn’t sign one to be our closer. If there was one you liked, make a case for it. I understand it would be hard to come up w/ a trade, but people do it every day. If someone is available, and their team needs meet a surplus we have, then it’s easy to come up w/ a plausible scenario. That you haven’t given a single option you’d prefer doesn’t help your case any.
And are you saying Perdomo could have been a closer candidate? I agree it was indefensible that he was left unprotected (especially since Scherer was protected), but the Front Office obviously didn’t think Perdomo could stick in the big leagues for a full season (and he has yet to prove he can).
I just don’t think there’s any point in you complaining about this w/o giving a single scenario you would have preferred.
Perdomo
is on his way back anyways. Just hasn’t cleared waivers yet.
Mo gambled correctly that he wouldn’t stick as a Rule 5 draftee.
How could you possibly give an answer as to what you would have done?
Well, you are, aren’t you? By criticizing specific deals Mo made, you are implying that you would have done the opposite — gotten a “proven” closer, not promoted Motte, not signed Reyes, and kept Perdomo. The problem you have is that you don’t want to specify which “proven” closer you would have signed, or why a “proven” closer would have necessarily changed the outcome of today’s game.
Seems to me that its unfair to criticize specific deals without offering a similarly specific alternative. You also may be forgetting that Mo offered Fuentes more money than he ultimately signed for in LAA. Therefore, it also seems unfair to yell and scream about not signing a proven closer when Mo tried to overpay for one but was turned down.
by Ray Lankford on Apr 6, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
everyone knows
that passing or failing a test is solely determined by one’s answer to the first question!
Dang
I wish I woulda knew that in high school. I could’ve saved myself alot of time ;)
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Apr 7, 2009 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you all for proving my point about the free pass!
There wasn’t one more obvious need for this team than closer at the end of last season. Rather than come up with some convoluted trade that I would’ve pulled off, I think it’s much more significant to point out what other teams did to address closer questions in the off season.
The mets were resourceful, creative and fearless in pulling of their 3 team 7 player trade to land Putz. They were also aggressive in getting the best closer available through FA. The cubs let a pretty good closer go for fear of what he would cost and rather than simply promoting the ehr apparent (marmol; a better more experienced relief pitcher than Motte btw) they went and signed keven gregg, a guy who’s proven he can close on the big stage.
It shouldn’t be that difficult to understand that a closer was needed but not gotten. The job of getting a closer fell squarely on Mozeliak’s shoulders. We can all talk about how great Jason Motte could be someday, but he’s not that guy yet obviously. And no, I’m not giving up on him. I root for the cardinals at all times whoever’s wearing the uniform. But this seems so simple to me its amazing you are all having trouble grasping the notion. Mo had holes he needed to fill in the offseason and for whatever reason he failed to fill the hole in the ninth. You’d have a hard time finding another GM who’d be comfortable just giving the ball to a rookie in the ninth regardless of how he performed in ST, AAA, or in a late season callup from the minors. Which is exactly why they are hesitant to call Motte the closer.
Yes Mo made a good, very simple trade to get Green from a team who was begging to trade the contract away. Yes he did get some loogies through FA. Guys that weren’t hard to get when it all boiled down. And he gained some leverage in the Rolen trade but that leverage is currently dwindling with Glaus on the shelf. The Jed trade is yet tobe seen as a succes or failure. Am I that far off base in saying he hasn’t been that great as a GM? The team needed and still needs a closer. Maybe Motte is that guy. But is Mo even telling us that Motte is that guy? NO, he’s not. What we do know is that he tried to overpay for Fuentes so we can assume he saw the closer as an area of need. A need that at first he thought he had to go outside the orginaization to fill. But what happened after Fuentes fell through? Ultimately what happened was Jason Motte was given the ball. This may still work out to be a great move. I just don’t think an unproven rookie (and make no mistake, Motte is unproven) is someone other GMs would’ve been comfortable giving the ball to in the 9th.
Chuck, I haven’t said that Motte has failed any test have I? I’ve simply tried to point out that Closer was an issue last year and remains an issue at the start of the new season. And for this I think Mo should be criticized. I would think you of all people would respond to what I’ve said and not put words in my mouth just to be sarcastic. Have an intelligent arguement for why you disagree and why you think Mo does NOT deseve my critcizm
by Walking Underwear on Apr 7, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
The Mets also have about 500x more money to spend than we do
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Apr 7, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's an intelligent retort
Motte, right now, is better than Kevin Gregg. Gregg is more experienced, to be sure, but not as good as Motte. Overreact to one loss all you want, but the correct play was not to spend $16 M for K-Rod, nor to give up a lot to acquire a guy (Putz) who broke down last year and everyone has felt might break down at any time. It also wasn’t to spend $9M+ per year + our first round pick on Fuentes. Perhaps I’ll end up being wrong but 1 game isn’t going to convince me of that, your rantings notwithstanding.
BTW
you have the audacity to criticize anyone else’s response and yet you began this wonderful little back-and-forth by suggesting that Luis Perdomo — a guy less “experienced” than Motte (who you criticize for being inexperienced and unproven) — might have gotten the job done instead. And those who criticize your criticism of Mo based on Motte’s performance in 1 game are lacking intelligence? How intelligent would it have been to give the ball to Perdomo in the 9th?
Mariano Rivera looked really hittable in Game 7 of the 2001 World Series
You wouldn’t want him?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
Don't the Pirates realize they are the worst organization in proffessional sports?
Why can’t we ever treat them that way?
you're not allowed to watch cards-pirates game!
do you remember this?
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 6, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously.
Late-‘00s Pirates = Mid-’00s Reds?
by I Like Bob Dylan on Apr 6, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
ewh
to this game
4B - beer baseball bands blog
cmon and let the games begin
confusion will be my epitaph
I think I have more sigs than gdm now, hah!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions
Folks! Hear me!
We don’t draw conclusions based on one emotionally-charged game here. I assure you, the reports that we are doomed to get spanked by the Pirates over and over again, and that our bullpen fsking suxxors, and the bleepin’ Cubs are gonna win the world series, etc. etc. are quite premature.
Quiet, you.
We don’t need any sort of reasoned, rational perspective here. What we need is more screaming about experienced closers, firing Mozeliak, and why it’s awesome to boo people. See, ’cause being an asshole is going to solve all of our problems.
If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.
by the red baron on Apr 6, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
you're wrong
we’re going to go 0-162 and blow 9000 saves this year!!!! It’s all Mo’s fault. He and De-Money!!!!! Where’s Izzy when we need him!!!!!!
Maybe it's just that I missed most of this game so I'm not as invested
but lets put away the pitchforks for now.
Just remember
We lost our opening game last year too. And we had an uncanny ability to lose the first game of a series and then come back and take the rest.
Even still, I’m bummed.
Testicle-exploding shit storm, circa 7/12/08 - We will never forget!
losing the first game would be one thing
having the game in hand and blowing the lead in the ninth is another.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
Either way, it still results in the same outcome
Testicle-exploding shit storm, circa 7/12/08 - We will never forget!
by dan on Apr 6, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
eeegads
no more baseball for me today!
4B - beer baseball bands blog
cmon and let the games begin
confusion will be my epitaph
I think I have more sigs than gdm now, hah!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions
it's 2008!
izzy!
Franklins!
Motte’s slider is teh SUCK!
Let’s all slam our heads against the wall and call it a day.
161 more games to go.
your division-leading Pittsburgh Pirates
That said, Motte’s gonna have to manage his adrenaline and/or Yadi has to figure how to manage Motte. That first mound-meet didn’t look like it went too well. Maybe the Sauce is still thinking like a catcher.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Yes but his FIP is 2,91
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Apr 6, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
opening day in st. louis last few years...
2007 – Carpenter blows elbow
2008 – Wainwright pitches a gem that doesn’t count. We lose the make up
2009 – Motte blows his first save
Good news! It’s going to be a fun and exciting year. Motte will either do it or he won’t.
I could at least understand the Booing
It is cold as shit outside and just watched your team blow the lead in the 9th inning
Stat Whore
No
You don’t boo someone giving their all, when things go against them. You boo no effort, and really pathetic players that shouldn’t be there in the first place. And opposing players who you respect a lot.
Or Garry Templeton, Keith Hernandez, players like that.
this loss makes my heart hurt
but i really hope that our bullpen gets a few things straightened out soon.
if you can’t trust a southern lawyer cooking a kosher meal in a dumpster,
well, then, the world has grown far too cynical
by RosevilleRedbird on Apr 6, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions
this sucks, hope AppleSauce can learn something from this
and very important, he has a very short memory
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
The only thing worse than a Cardinal's loss is a loss on opening day.
However, it always helps sooth the burn when either CHC or HOU loses, which means there’s a 100% chance my day will get a little better around 10pm tonight.
Testicle-exploding shit storm, circa 7/12/08 - We will never forget!
by dan on Apr 6, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It ruins my day tomorrow also
because I refuse to read articles on Cardinals losses, and my first hour a day at work is usually spent reading up on the Cardinals (and or Blues). Now i’m going to have to actually work.
Shit
Cesar Izturis just hit a HR. FML.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
oh noes! at this rate he will hit 162 HR this year!!!!!1!!1!
how did we give up the best power hitting SS of all time MO!@!!! how!!?!?!
khaleel is teh suck!!!
You missed the point
All the players who were shitty for us last year are rocking the shit today. I don’t want Cesar Izturis on the team this year, I’ll take KBot any time.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
i wasn't teasing you. i know that you're too smart for that.
i was making a general satirical comment not directed at you. should have been clearer. sorry.
No worries
Just making sure people don’t think I’m one of the “sky is falling” crowd. It’s just a shitty day today that we blew a lead in the ninth, and Felipe Lopez and Cesar Izturis have 3 HR combined. The Cubs will win by 50 tonight, with Aaron Miles pitching a CG and hitting for the HR cycle: solo, 2-R, 3-R, GS
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
STLToday forums are a riot right now
it almost makes the blown save worth it.
I’m shocked they aren’t storm Mo’s house with pitchforks and torches by now.
This is what I quit reading
Idiot quotent < level of forums
Come on guys, lighten up
it’s not like this was anything more that another Spring Training game. Wait, what? It counted? But, but…Brendan Ryan was leading off. But, but…Chris Duncan started vs a LHP. But, but….Brian Barden played 3B.
Drat.
I quit reading them.
My idiot quotent isn’t high enough.,
Guys - now the bad news. I gotta go to work and think about this all day. . .
At least you can seriously begin to drown your sorrows. Maybe have to find a grief counselor tonight. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
I am ready for tomorrow...
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
Falling off a cliff
that’s what that felt like.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 6, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 6, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Cardinals closers = defying fangraphs since 2008
by dcfcblues on Apr 6, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
like you can find one of those
WALK YER DOG, NOT PUJOLS
by Dave Barry on Apr 6, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Punch a cubbie fan.
well, there’s a hell of a lot more of them where I live, anyway….
I get a "D" in common sense ... and an "F" in general helping.
one of my roommates is a Yankees fan who thinks ARod is better than Pujols
although I’d still have to live with him so….
They stole JJ Putz from us?
Since it would have cost us either Ludwick or Ankiel, I’m not.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 6, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
You would have had a lineup today of Skippy, Ludwick and Duncan in the OF. That’s a bad team.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 6, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Rasmus
would play center, and Skip would still be at second. He and Ludwick are good defensively, and Duncan isn’t THAt bad.
vivaelbeñsheets
We didn't see Rasmus today
and if Ankiel were traded, they wouldn’t have converted Skip to 2B.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 6, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
10 LOB.
The Cards had chances to blow this game open early but failed. Molina’s DP w/ the bases loaded etc.
Should have left Duncan in the game for D
that lumbering bastard would have probably found a way to catch Wilson’s hit. He seems to have a penchant for getting to the balls in the gap.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
yes
of course, Joe Thurston was at 3rd and Ryan at 2nd when double-switching Thurston into the game could’ve put the pitcher’s spot due up 9th by replacing Ryan at 2nd and leaving Freese in the game. Rasmus should’ve been in left. He’d have caught that ball.
So how did Motte actually look?
I didn’t get to see the game but by following Gameday Motte’s probably was that he was painting the edges fine but they were in the middle. The hit by Wilson was a 95mph Fastball that was high and tight in the corner. It looked like a good pitch
Stat Whore
I need to proof read
Probably=problem
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 6, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
His fast ball was bad
really bad, it never topped 95 and he had little commmand of it. He showed a couple of good sliders though.
vivaelbeñsheets
Gameday said he his average speed was 96.1MPH
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 6, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
really?
maybe the clock on the broadcast was off, because I could swear he wasn’t throwing that hard.
vivaelbeñsheets
Agreed
I disregard fsn’s gun. i always have gameday up for velocity. gameday is always a few mph faster, and seemingly more accurate to me.
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 6, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
well, thanks
I haven’t been able to watch a game on a local broadcast in quite a while, and did today thru mlb.tv… good to know that their gun isn’t accurate.
Well i cant say for sure it isnt the other way around
but i believe the fsn gun is down and has been over the last season or so at the least
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 6, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
and gameday had him on a 90.8 average mph on the 4 seemer
I’ll go with gameday
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 6, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
his slider looked good
his fastball…not so great, but of course I am used to his 98+ stuff
I give credit to Wilson, he did a great job of catching up to high and inside fastball. I didn’t think he had a chance to hit it fair when he swung at it.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Well if his fastball looked bad but his slider looked good
Than I think that is something to be optimistic about. He has always had great control of his fastball so it was likely jitters. I mean Wainwright walked 5 guys today. The cold weather could of played a factor also. He just didn’t get warmed up enough.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 6, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
or maybe too much
He got warmed up real fast in the bullpen, it seemed, and then was just standing on the mound out there for a while since the offense was taking some time.
Not great.
His fastball looked like a BP fastball. No movement, and it was very hard. He looked nothing like he did last year or this spring. I don’t know if he was nervous, or if the cold was bothering him or what.