Joel and the Sinker
Derrick Goold recently told us about Joel Pineiro's recent conversion to sinker-ballism, as preached by the Prophet Duncan. With his new "toy", Pineiro has been burning some serious wormage. Looking at his pitch f/x data, he is trading some velocity for movement, but it is a good trade considering the results so far. Before we jump into things, I must preface: I am not a pitch f/x guru. Like with Pineiro and his sinker, graphing pitch f/x and learning pitch f/x is sort of like my new toy. If you see anything goofy or that you don't understand, point it out because I want to learn and know that I have a lot to learn about pitch f/x. I can't promise I'll respond to every comment, but trust me, feedback helps.
One of the first things I noticed looking at his data is that his sinker comes in slower than average and often pitch f/x gets confused and classifies it as a change-up. According to his Fangraphs page, Joel has went from throwing change-ups 14% to 37% of the time, and we know from Goold's article that those classifications are not correct. Fangraphs also records that Pineiro has gone from throwing 2-seamers from 1.6% of the time to 11% of the time. I'm sure he's having two-seamers being classified as four-seamers as well. So all in all, I'd venture to say that he is now throwing the two-seamer 60-65% of the time. Here are a few different looks at Joel's last start against the Mets through the lens of pitch f/x.
First up is speed versus the all-important vertical movement. The cluster in the upper 80's is his new-found 2-seamer, below that and closest to the 0 and below is most likely his slider. The really "filthy" sinkers, as Kyle Lohse calls them, are the ones in the 0-5 zone. You're probably asking yourself...umm.. what are you trying to show me here? Let me try and explain this as best I know how. The "rise" of the ball is not actually saying the ball rose on the way to the plate. That is Physics 101. The ball doesn't actually rise. Rather, it is how much less the ball fell than a ball thrown without spin. A sinker is just a fastball that drops more than an average fastball.
For reference, according to Mike Fast, an average sinker is 90 MPH and has 7.6 inch horizontal break and a 4.7 inch rise. The horizontal break is how the sinker tails into a RHB and on a four-seam pitch, that's about 5 inches. Now check out the movement Pineiro is generating on his two-seamer ---
Against the Mets at times he was generating over 10 inches of tailing action in on Mets right-handed hitters. Combine that with the sink and it is no wonder Pineiro held the Mets in check, leaving them to beat the ball into the ground.
Putting it all together:
The 80-84 MPH pitches on the left are probably actually change-ups, while sliders are the pitches in the middle of the graph. The 70-79 MPH pitches are curveballs. Check out the large cluster of red pitches towards the left that have near 0 in vertical movement. That is some serious sink, but they are coming in slower, probably because gravity has more time to do its thing than with faster pitches.
So is this new found weapon enough to make Pineiro a force to be reckoned with? We are talking about Jo-el here, so let's not get excited. The lack of whiffs is rather alarming, as he is striking out less than 3 batters per nine. You may not have to strikeout a lot of batters if your inducing ground balls, but looking at the graphs, his sinker is not quite in Chien-Ming Wang territory yet (the good version of Wang) in terms of movement, but for someone who just learned the pitch, he's showing a real aptitude. Hopefully we can re-dub him "Quemador de Gusano" in place of the Pinata.
(Hmm...why is it I can't figure out how to put accent marks in here? Oh, well.)
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Would it be possible to compare pre- to post- sinker data in this fashion?
I’m just wondering if it could be mostly luck that he is getting by on thus far and we could be a bit hasty to start comparing him to anyone better than his average to below-average self.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
well, sorry for no graph, as promised
i got sidetracked. you can however look at his pitch types on his fangraphs page and see they have more vert./horiz movement
Seems extremely noisy,
looks like the sinker is getting cut in half and attributed as half changeups and half fastballs, funking up the speeds and movements on them. But there is definitely something new going on this year.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
Switching the direction of the graphs
made my math illiterate brain bleed.
That’s great to see that Joel is actually doing SOMETHING that is causing his success. Whether he has perfected this pitch to the point that he can repeat it start after start, we shall see.
If he has, I ask “Why the hell wasn’t he doing it last year?”
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 26, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions
stubbornness?
he has it. or maybe Dunc would rather tinker with guys in the off-season/ST than in the middle of the regular year. or maybe Yadi/Joel just didn’t trust it then, but do now.
if he can turn into Looper, then he’s contributing. is it too much to hope for that?
different haircut?
4B - beer baseball bands blog
the thrill is still ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hot
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 28, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Try a speed x spin direction plot
I think the sinkers/fastballs/changes will be easier to pick out. And that is better (not perfect) to use for game-to-game comparisons than the pfx_x and pfx_z data.
by Harry Pavlidis on Apr 26, 2009 10:47 AM EDT reply actions
Accent marks;
there are lots of alt+number pad codes. Alt+164 is ñ, Alt+130 is é, I don’t remember the rest.
Gusano?
No comprendo. Porque quieres llamar a Jo-El “el quemador de gusano”? Estas referiendo a esto?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Pues, "gusano" significa "worm".
Pero yo no conozco esta frace “burn the worm”. Supongo que es una frase de beibol “oldey-timey”. ¿Alguien sabe?
No worries
Creo que mucha gente que habla espanol del Caribe, ellos no pronuncia el ese.
Talvez el eric estaba referiendo al “gusano quemador” y no al “quemador de gusano”. El gusano quemador es un tipo de gusano (caterpillar) que puede quemar cuando lo agarras.
En vez the “quemador de gusano”, el Jo-el puede ser Chapulin.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Por aqui...
en Guatemala al gusano quemador le decimos el “gusando de calentura” (roughly translated, the fever worm) Me parece que Pineiro está enfermando a los bateadores rivales y ya ni fuerza tienen para batear de línea, solo de rolas.
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
It really doesn't seem like such a good pitch
You gotta figure that people are gonna start to square it up soon.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 28, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to be negtative though
I applaud Joel for making a change in his style.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 28, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah it's almost like a crappy changeup.
Just thrown directly and inevitably to contact.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
Cheers to a 4.3% HR/FB
Granted the peripherals he’s put up would make him better than last year if he can continue to get 55% grounders, I severely doubt he’s going to succeed much with a 2 K/9.
Not afraid to nitpick
The people that do succeed with such extremely low K rates,
are either people who sidearm or underhand, or people with very fast, very good sinkers. Pineiro has neither.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
underhand? is there a softball pitching coach at mizzou we could hook him up with?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I don't think it is possible to have long term success with a 1:1 K:BB ratio
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 28, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions

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