Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Yankees Deny Rumors That Team Is For Sale

A quick look at Blaine Boyer - our newest addition

Hey folks.  Have to say that I'm a little bit disappointed that we dumped Barton (a guy I think should've been with the big league team all year instead of Ryan, given his ability to hit LHP, his OBP/lead-off skills, and the fact he still offers some upside/trade-value if he's given a chance to play at the MLB level) for what appears to be a middle reliever that Atlanta didn't have any place for today, but I thought I'd take a bit more of a closer look at what we got back in the deal.  Here goes...

 

First of all, we probably know what we've given up in Barton - a no-power LF with a slightly noodley arm, who has great range in a corner OF spot but will probably never be a good enough defender to play CF.  UZR last year had him a +15 run LF (in a very small sample size, only 200 innings or so; he's also +ve for ARM rating, which I find a bit suspect).  He's probably, however, at least a +10 run leftfielder, given his speed and the fact he's already had defensive success there.

His main value offensively comes from his OBP - he got on at a .354 clip last year (albeit with an unsustainably lucky year on balls in play) and has enjoyed an OBP close to .400 in the minors (albeit hovering around .350 in his stints at AAA).  He has limited power (ISO of .124 last year isn't too out-of-sync with his minor league numbers) and, despite suggestions he might develop some power, he's 27 and is realistically probably never going to exceed 10HR in a major league season.  He was a 0.8 win player last year (per FanGraphs) in only 179 PA, which makes him probably at the very least an average LF, and potentially a solid RH part of a platoon in that position, or a good 4th or 5th OF for a contending team.  It should be said, however, that a lot of his value derives from his fielding (small sample size alert, although it has to be said that corner outfielders don't generally field well as a group) and his OBP (bolstered by a .348 BABIP last year).  In a full season, he might be just about an average major league outfielder.

 

Now, Blaine Boyer - he's a 27 year-old middle reliever/set-up type who throws from the right side.  He's been generally said to have above-average stuff throughout his career, and (as has been mentioned in the other thread) John Smoltz has said some good things about him.  Is he better than anyone currently in our bullpen?

Boyer pitched in 76 games and threw 72 innings last year.  To put that in perspective, Kyle McClellan only pitched in 68 games (albeit with 75 IP).  He finished with an ugly ERA of 5.88, however, his FIP was somewhat better, at 4.20.  He had a very similar year to KMac, pitching solidly in the first half then falling away badly after the all-star break, perhaps due to over-use.

Breaking down Boyer's pitching, he is a reasonably high strikeout guy, recording just over 8K/9IP in his major league career since breaking into the Braves' pen in 2005.  Walks have never been a major problem but, like KMac, his problems will come when he starts issuing the free passes.  He's recorded about 3.6BB/9IP, which means his K/BB ratio is 2.2 for his career, 2.6 in his solid 2008 campaign.  That's not bullpen ace material, but it compares well with KMac (2.36 career), Franklin (1.8 career), Springer (2.17 career, albeit much higher in his 2 year Cards' stint, at a little over 3).

Boyer's a slightly groundball-inclined pitcher, but not excessively so.  For his career, he's got a 1.35 GB/FB rate, which is somewhere in the ballpark of average I think.  He produces a GB just under 50% of the time, which is something that might've caught Dave Duncan's eye, despite the fact his repertoire (which I'll go onto) is a bit more "power"-orientated than your archetypal Duncan project....

Boyer throws a fastball (4-seam I think) which averages around 93mph for his career, but he can touch the mid-90s.  I don't have any pitchFx stuff (presumably someone else can chip in with that) but given his reasonably decent GB rate he probably throws some sinking/bottom-of-the-zone stuff, rather than trying to overpower at the letters.  He also relies heavily on a curveball sitting in the mid-70s, which he throws about 20% of the time.  However, in 2009 in his 3 appearances (when he's been shelled) his breaking ball has perplexingly been coming out a LOT faster, recording as a slider in the mid-80s.  He hasn't thrown his curve once, which is odd.  Not sure if this is something he's been working on in spring, but presumably the sooner he goes back to being a FB/CB pitcher, the better, and I'm sure that's something he'll be working on in St Louis.  He also has an occasional changeup which seemingly isn't very good, but I guess he might toss it in now and again vs LHB.

Boyer's splits are a tiny bit concerning - he's much better (as you might expect, given his pitching repertoire) against right-handed batters than southpaws.  Righties are held to a respectable 0.701 OPS against him in 317 PA, and he gets them out about 70% of the time when he faces them.  He also has a K/BB ratio close to 3 against them.  Against lefties, however, in his (limited) 198 PA, he gives up an .835 OPS, and only gets them out a little over 60% of the time.  To put that in perspective, he's worse against left-handed batters (small-ish sample size alert!) than Trever Miller is against righties, and he has a (slightly) bigger platoon split.  He probably shouldn't be facing LHB in high-leverage situations.  If he's to face lefties, it'd be nice to see if the organisation can develop his occasional changeup into a pitch he can reliably use against them.  Otherwise he'll probably walk too many and get hit reasonably hard.

Going back to 2008, his only full season of MLB pitching, and there's good reason to suspect he was a little unlucky.  Although it's worth noting BABIP doesn't influence FIP, he did have an unusually high one for a hard-throwing reliever (3.17) and he was either unlucky or (if you like) bad at holding runners - a LOB (left-on-base) percentage of 57% is astoundingly low, which is likely why his ERA looked so bad.  Despite his solid K/BB ratio I alluded to earlier, he was a bit unlucky on homeruns - he gave up 1.25 dingers per 9 innings, but 12.5% of his flyballs went long, which is a tiny bit more than you might expect, especially for a groundball-inclined pitcher.  Looking at where his 10 dingers landed, most of them were pretty cheap shots (falling in the first 5-10 yards of the HR area) so with a bit more luck (and moving to a slightly more pitcher friendly park) he might suppress that a bit.

Boyer's reasonably high K totals, decent stuff (mid-90s FB, decent breaking ball) suggests that, with a bit of the Duncan magic, he can be a useful reliever for us if a) his struggles this year in his 3IP aren't due to any injury, mental implosion or other possible long-term trend and b) he's used responsibly in a Springer stylee and brought on to face mostly right-handed hitters.  He's a guy who's always had an "upside" tag and so probably represents a bit of a "low baseline, reasonably high upside" pickup than merely being a solid middle-reliever.  Best case, he becomes a second K-Mac, albeit one who can't really pitch very well to lefties.  Worst case, he's had his struggles at times at the major league level so could sink or potentially merely be a so-so middle reliever who can eat innings.  It's hard to see anything in his stats that mark him out as being better than, say, Josh Kinney, and he doesn't have the raw stuff of Perez or Motte, but, given our RP collywobbles lately, he might be a decent addition.  For the moment, minus Brad Thompson, we have the imperfect solution of Mitchell Boggs in the major league pen (he should be making starts in Memphis, ideally) so it could be that Boyer starts (either in AAA or StL) with the intention of having him cover some of the long-man innings, with the potential of him taking Kinney's projected 7th inning spot while Josh works things out in AAA.  Another right-handed arm in the pen can't hurt and, if used primarily against right-handed hitters, he looks like he *might* stick.


Overally, I think the Braves got the best player in this deal but there's a decent argument that we've dealt an average-ish OF (albeit one who fulfills an immediate organisational need - RHB who can lead-off) from a position of depth for someone who might be able to help us now or at least pretty soon in a position we suddenly look a little shallow at (RHP in the pen).  I reckon we might've been able to do better but, given the organisation's view of Barton, I dunno if I'd be too disappointed, except that one of my favourite fringe players has been dealt.  Let's wait and see what we get from Boyer before judging this trade too harshly.

In a related point - now that Barton's gone, Craig NEEDS to come up, probably for Freese.  He can be plugged into LF against LHP once Duncan stops hitting them, and he can play some 3B otherwise.  Barden and Thurston aren't going to keep knocking the cover off the ball indefinitely and Craig looks ready.

Comment 29 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I should clarify this sentence
so it could be that Boyer starts (either in AAA or StL) with the intention of having him cover some of the long-man innings

I didn’t mean that he would be used as a starting pitcher – just that he’ll start his career as a RP in StL or Memphis with the intention of (probably) soaking up long-man innings at first.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 21, 2009 8:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Upside -- Russ Springer (as a Cardinal)

That’s what I get after doing my own research and looking yours. Let’s just hope it doesn’t take him to age 37 to get it all figured out…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions  

if we wanted russ springer

why didn’t we just sign russ springer?

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on Apr 21, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because he cost $3m I guess

Although I reckon we could’ve got him for a bit less, given his ties to St Louis. However, we don’t know the situation. Could be he said “if you don’t offer arby, I’m not going to listen to lowball offers”. He would’ve got $4m in arbitration which, whilst not an unreasonable price, is a bit of a risk for a guy who might have just been lucky to suppress his HR rate abnormally in the last couple of years.

I suppose the organisation has made it clear they value Brian Barton significantly less than the cash it would’ve taken to get Springer. Personally, I wasn’t opposed to letting Springer walk – I think it was a fair enough move, but I wanted Ohman as part of that scenario, and I’d rather still have Barton.

A third option that’s interesting is that Boyer might be a possible candidate to stretch out as a starter… I suspect he’s here as a RP but you never know…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 21, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

granted, there are things we don't know about the situation

but the cardinals have a habit of being cheap in the short run (see mark grudz) and spending more money in the long run to fill the gap.

i hope they have something up their sleeve but this pattern puzzles me

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on Apr 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are we getting in this guy?

So it sounds like we traded away a solid bench player that will always be that for somebody that Atlanta did not want. I hope the Organization is right and they see something in this guy that I am not. Couldn’t we have gotten someone better than this guy in February or March for about the same money and not had to give up a bench player. All of the cheap solid relievers that signed for very little late this Winter. Than we wait to give up a solid bench player for a bad reliever with what looks like could be potential. Let’s hope this pans out better than it initially looks.

by sharpwp on Apr 21, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Couldn’t we have gotten someone better than this guy in February or March for about the same money and not had to give up a bench player

no, but we could’ve got someone about the same for a little bit more money. I guess the whole question hinges on “what do you think Brian Barton is worth?”. The problem may well be that, even with a wealth of SABR stats available and (some) organisations increasingly coming to value defense, no-power corner outfielders still aren’t worth a great deal on a market that’s been fairly saturated with corner OF options.

I feel we probably could’ve got more for Barton but I also feel that, as a group, we probably over-rate his trade value. IF (and it’s a big if; I happen to think that his speed probably does make him a + defender in LF) his occasionally wacky routes to the ball and weak arm mean that his UZR is a mirage last year (i.e. he’s not much better than the average LF defensively), then TBH his value probably isn’t that great. If you buy into the defense, I’m reckoning he’s about average, perhaps even slightly better, as a MLB left fielder.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 21, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the thing

If Randy Winn is an MLB regular, why can’t Barton be one? That’s what I always come back to. Winn has a little more pop, but not that much, and Barton would probably get on base more.

I probably do overrate him a tad, but I just don’t think that Boyer is all that good and if his high upside is that of Russ Springer I feel like we already have guys like that in the minors.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

but Barton isn't a bench player.

He’s a triple A player. If he were a bench player in this organization, he’d be in St. Louis. As it stands, he’s behind, Ludwick, Ankiel, Rasmus, Duncan, Schumaker (even the 2nd base version), and Mather. He’s our 7th outfielder, and when you factor in age he probably falls behind Jones and possibly some others as far as importance to the overall organization.

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that doesn't mean

he’s not a bench player or a starting outfielder for someone else. Every big league team doesn’t have the depth that the Cardinals do in the outfield. Atlanta has very little depth at all, they got Barton as insurance against Garrett Anderson being finished as a corner outfield option, and all it cost them was a pitcher that they were going to lose via waivers because they decided that he wasn’t good enough to pitch in their craptastic bullpen.

Equating Barton’s value to the Cardinals as a 7th outfielder and his value to another team as a 4th or possible leadoff hitting outfielder is a mistake.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Atlanta also has one of the worst OFs in baseball...

… and they think so highly of him that they’re sending him to AAA initially.

Barton is a fringe player on pretty much every team in baseball. yes, some would have him on the 25-man, but it’s not an obvious choice. he’s a .700-.750 OPS corner OFer with a weak arm. that sort of players isn’t worth a ton in the trade market.

by kindred on Apr 21, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's

mind boggling that the braves view barton as a player that can play all 3 OF positions. he’s a defensive 5th OF that can hit decently and take a walk, no power threat off the bench.

Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!

by cardwash on Apr 21, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow you guys are just wrong

Barton projects to be, if given a full season, a league average player. Those types of guys aren’t fringe players, they are usually starters.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 21, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree

and i think barton would be fine in CF. Almost certainly better than ankiel, minus the arm.

But if I’m ATL, I want barton to show he isn’t hurt in AAA, not MLB. He still has to earn his way up.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 22, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just to play devil's advocate here

because I like Barton….

It’s pretty easy to argue that he was a bit lucky last year. Even though he only put up a .250-odd average, he was pretty lucky on balls in play. Also, our rating of him as “about league average” is VERY much predicated on his defence. If his strong UZR rating last year was a mirage (and I’m not saying it was) and he turns out to be about average in LF, with his noodley arm and occasional wacky routes to the ball, he becomes only a little over a replacement player (i.e. basically not worth very much). Like I say, I like him, but there’s an argument that it’s pretty hard to regard him an average-or-better corner OF option based on 200 innings of defensive stats and a slightly lucky similarly short period of hitting.

Also, even if he IS a league average corner OF, we’ve got about 6 or 7 guys in the organisation who are already (or project to be) as good as or better than that. I can’t help but feel that other teams know that, and thus know that they have us over a barrel, value-wise, w/ barton.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 22, 2009 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

barton wasn't lucky on BIP

he’s just a great bunter. Remove bunts from his BIP stats and see what it looks like.

(I posted about this last oct/nov, so you can probably find the results by searching this forum if you can’t do the math yourself, but the conclusion was, he did NOT have a lucky BABIP season last year).

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 26, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

You missed the whole point there...

If the Cardinals had waited until later in the season they may have been able to get more for him from a team that has significant outfield injuries, because he’s a guy that you can plug in and get at least league average innings from in the outfield. He’s not going to hurt you by playing LF, even if he doesn’t help you that much with the bat, he’s going to be a 1 win player defensively.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 22, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought you said a quick look... than I see an epilogue

I agree with pretty much everything you said. The LOB of 57% is mind blowing bad. It was worst by all relievers in baseball last year. I bet he was tipping his pitches or is just horrible throwing out of the stretch.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Front office rushed this one

I agree with who they traded. Brian Barton had little chance of playing in STL again. I just don’t get why now, or who they traded for. Hopefully things will turn out OK, but I’m not too optimistic at this point.

Welcome to Baseball Heaven.

by zoomzoomj88 on Apr 21, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Why Boyer?

I understand that we did not lose much in Barton, but what are we really getting in Boyer.

The Braves were ready to release him to waivers. It looks like he is hurt. His upside is based on one half of a season.

I would rather us have gotten one of the proven relievers that were still left half way through spring training than to wait until now to make a trade for someone that someone else did not want. Proven relievers were going for 1-2 million on one year contracts. We definately had many chances to get someone better than this.

by sharpwp on Apr 22, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Why does it look like he's hurt?

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 22, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

in today's game

top of the 8th inning, the color commenter noted (paraphrased):

“Wainwright and boyer were roomates in the minors, and his wife and adam’s remain very close, attending the same bible study class etc. Adam was a very strong proponent for Boyer and went to mo and vouched for his raw talent”.

An interesting tidbit I hadn’t heard before.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 26, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

stl and atl

discussed mather for boyer this winter. it was reported in the post dispatch.
now we offer barton for boyer and they accept. an outside view of the two outfielders worth, to another org.
both play all the outfield positions. barton a top of the order guy, mather a middle of the order.

by ball in play on Apr 22, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Amy I too late for the party?

Hi Cards fans. I’m not here to troll or anything, just wanted to pipe in on this transaction, since Felonius_Monk dropped by to us, and asked for thoughts.

I’m not going to lie – I certainly think the Braves got the better end of the deal here, but I wish all parties involved to get benefit out of the trade. Barton will be a welcome addition to the Braves’ LF “logjam,” considering the health/longevity of Garret Anderson, and an extra RH option for CF in the event that rookie Jordan Schafer needs a platoon partner, TBD.

Blaine Boyer finally wore out his welcome to the Braves faithful, and many are glad to see him move on. But there is a notable contingent of Braves fans who still feel that Boyer was prematurely given up on, and that he still has a lot of upside to his career. Personally, I feel that he still has a shot to be a good set-up man for any major league team, but I’m tired of the Braves being the one to have to see if he’ll get there. I like the guy as a person, but as a pitcher, I think he’s got too many problems in the head to be effective yet. He’s got good stuff; throws hard (94-97mph), and has a great curveball. The slider is in the works, but he clearly does not have the confidence to use it in-game, no matter how many times people see him practicing it. Put him in any scenario where it is a ≥3 run lead, or a momentum stopper, and he can’t seem to deliver. Give him no-pressure mop up duty as long as the lead is ≤4, and he’ll carve-up batters like tender meat, which is why I think his problems are primarily mental; he knows how to get guys out, but just can’t handle pressure. The clichéd “change of scenery” might do wonders for him.

Sorry of the wall of text there, but that’s pretty much the skinny on Boyer in my words.

Like I said, I hope Boyer finds some success in St. Louis, and that Dave Duncan can tap into his potential better than Roger McDowell could, because all things considered, I would like to see him be good for you guys, because I dislike the Cubs.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Apr 24, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions  

thanks for coming by, roy. we love visitors who give their impressions of their teams.

it’s good not to live in a cardinals-only echo chamber.

we think, however much time barton gets or doesn’t get, you’ll like him as a person. he’s a good guy.

good luck in the NL East!

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 24, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

anyone who ever uses the term Pujols

the way you do is always welcome around these parts

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Apr 24, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol, so I guess I don’t have to worry about proving that team allegiances aside, I think Pujols is pretty much the greatest thing in the world, huh?

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Apr 24, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

plus, you are apparently a rick ankiel fan.

bravo!

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 26, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Jack_benny__1__small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bendermad_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

1989_bgh_cropped_small bgh

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols