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And I think it's going to be a long, long time—

Brian Barton was a rare combination—part fun-to-watch, quirky hustler, part talented, useful bench cog. It's one that evokes the maximum allowable amount of trade regret, and considering the underwhelming take-home there's one thing you can say about John Mozeliak here: he didn't pull the trigger intending to become more popular, or appease the fanbase. 

But now that Barton is gone to better things—he won't dislodge Garret Anderson, but he probably should, and that at least guarantees that he'll see more play on Talking Chop than he did here—we've got Blaine Boyer to worry about. 

As a corollary to that old saw about never trading for Braves pitching prospects we can add "why are the Braves trading you this relief pitcher?" One of my roommates is a Braves fan, and when we're in the living room, watching the Cardinals, it seems that every night begins with "This Braves team is gonna be tough!" and ends with a disgusted glance at the box score on his iPhone. It was an occasion when each member of the pen finally recorded an out, thereby assigning himself an ERA other than undefined.

So of course it's a little worrisome when an ostensibly in-contention team trades from a position of serious weakness—I can see, in an alternate universe, John Mozeliak trading Josh Kinney and then letting out a sinister cackle, fingers tented. 

Here are some good things about Blaine Boyer: 

  • He throws hard. He's got a mid-90s fastball, and he's not afraid to use it. He's a "stuff" reliever, not a deception guy, so presumably his Major League struggles are not the result of Tyler Clippard syndrome. 
  • He had a bad second half. A regular Kyle McClellan, he is. Splits time: 
IP H ER BB K HR ERA
First Half 52.2 47 23 18 45 3 3.93
Second Half 19.1 26 24 7 22 7 11.17

 

Even that first half is less than sterling, but his homer-happiness in 2008 takes on a different look when it all happens at once. Which is good or bad, depending on how convinced you are of his health at this very moment, considering he's got an ERA of 40.50 in 2009. Anyway, that homer happiness is a fine segue—

  • He was extremely homer-stingy in the minors. Since I just finished cursing Gary Daley I don't want to be too optimistic about this—I barely want to say it—but for what it's worth, Blaine Boyer was extraordinarily difficult to take deep in the minor leagues. He allowed just 14 in 565 innings in the minors, mostly as a starting pitcher. The weird thing is that he had a different problem; he walked four batters per nine innings. He cut that walk rate in the majors, but his home run rate exploded; maybe there's some happy medium. 
  • Dave Duncan. Here's the crux of the argument, I think, for this trade. The Cardinals have a guy who could make a legitimate claim to the title of best pitching coach ever. 
But trading a valuable asset for a guy you think you could fix—I think that's where the line is. This isn't Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano, in which Rick Peterson famously claimed he could fix Victor Zambrano in five minutes; Barton was of a uniquely low value to the Cardinals, who had and have a lot of outfield depth on either side of him, and he was expendable in trade. It's important to my understanding of this trade to assume that the Cardinals didn't value Brian Barton enough to really fret over this trade.

But Boyer's a weird, seemingly low-upside, high-risk choice for a team that's looking for ready-made bullpen help right now. The Cardinals have plenty of relievers who should pitch fine in the bigs; if they wanted a new one, they could have called him up. After Wellemeyer's nifty season last year, I'm happy to give Duncan some leeway on another big, hard-throwing salvage case. But when you're trading real value for these guys—well, I hope he's really confident about it. 

Poll
B____ B_____
Blaine Boyer
401 votes
Brian Barton
524 votes

925 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 382 comments |

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watch out NL central

Who needs Glaus WE GOT BOYER!!!!!!!

by Retire51 on Apr 21, 2009 8:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And I'm gonna be....
….. HIGH……

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 21, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

[drags on cigarette...]

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 21, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

... as a kite by then!

Oh….
I miss the earth so much…. I miss my wife. It’ssss…. it’s lonely, out in space… on such a… timeless flight!

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Every time I try to sing it in my head

it morphs into Daniel…

Lord I miss Crabman/oh I miss him so much

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually

used the Youtube clip of Shatner doing Rocketman for my own article on this deal. I just love that man and his singing so damned much.

Anyone ever heard his version of Pulp’s “Common People”?

If you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it.

by the red baron on Apr 21, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

YES!

Absolute amazement over how good it is.

by kyle3776 on Apr 21, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You've probably heard "The Transformed Man" --

great stuff, although nothing probably reaches the dizzying heights of Shatner’s Rocketman.

Leonard Nimoy also has some “classics” of his own. He was said to “grope melodies as effortlessly as someone trying to pick up dimes with a catcher’s mitt.”

by phesto on Apr 21, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The ballad of bilbo baggins

was, in particular, a salient effort in the Nimoy oevre.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 22, 2009 5:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crabman you're a starrrrrrrrr!

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Apr 21, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crabman my brotha, you are older than me

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barton's leavin' tonight on a plane

I can see those red tail lights headin’ for the Bra-a-a-a-aves…

by capeboda on Apr 21, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

have you seen the "highlight" reel?

..over on the mothership, they have a highlight reel of Boyer. In it he fans two Cards. The problem though, is that if you look at the score, 3 runs have been scored between Ks in the same inning. That’s pretty weak….

by Cardsfan25 on Apr 21, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I struck out two guys in high school to end an inning

Except we were down by 10 runs and I had already walked the bases loaded. Lets hope Blane Boyer begins his Cardinals career by working some low-leverage innings.

www.salukihoops.com

by salukihoops on Apr 21, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's whats scary

we have motte, perez, kinney, and now boyer that need to pitch low-leverage innings. i’m withholding judgment for the moment but for now it seems like not a great pick-up. they have had their eye on boyer for quite some time and that makes me think they didn’t look elsewhere very much for help.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Apr 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and for that mather motte

could use some regular to higher leverage situations, just maybe not the ninth

by huts04 on Apr 21, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would agree with you

pre-laduncified…not so much now.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Apr 21, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

depends

was that during the latter half of last season when he obviously wasn’t where he was at the beginning?

I see the trade as a good thing, you can never have enough pitching and the organization is loaded with outfielders.

what i think is funny is that on the braves mlb site about the trade, most braves fans believe they got barton just to trade him for a different reliever.

Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!

by cardwash on Apr 21, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think something

might have happened early in spring training that made Barton expendable. He did not play much in the early ST games and was in the first group that was sent over to the minor league camp.
Later, especially the last 2 weeks of ST, La Russa used a lot of imports from the minor league camp in regular ST games. Freese, Jones, Jay. Robinson. Even Hofpauir a time or two. But never Barton. I don’t know whether he came to camp out of shape or something, but he was cast out early and he has not hit at all at Memphis. The trade should not be a surprise.

by ridgesee on Apr 21, 2009 9:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Barton was hitting .107/.219/.107 in 32 plate appearences this season

It’s a small sample size but it’s fair to say that he wasn’t nipping on the heals of Colby Rasmus.

I’m Barton’s biggest fan, but even if Boyer doesn’t work out, this isn’t the type of trade that haunts the Cardinals down the road.

www.salukihoops.com

by salukihoops on Apr 21, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what i think is strange

is that the braves see him as a player that can play all OF positions, while the cards viewed him basically as a reserve corner OF, did he even play CF at all last year either in st louis or memphis?

Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!

by cardwash on Apr 21, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 innnings in CF last year in STL

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Apr 21, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

optioned
La Russa used a lot of imports from the minor league camp in regular ST games. Freese, Jones, Jay. Robinson. Even Hofpauir a time or two. But never Barton.


I think that was because he was optioned to Memphis. Same with Tyler Greene. Because they were on the 40 man once they were sent they couldn’t be called back. I can’t remember the exact rules but it was something along that lines.

by paposse on Apr 21, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

d'oh

Quote fail.

by paposse on Apr 21, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow, i've never seen the quote-box-in-quote-box before

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Apr 21, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought you could use

anybody in your orginization in ST. non roster invitees and all. Am I wrong?

by ridgesee on Apr 21, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

Barton was traded? You stop paying attention during one day off and look what happens . . .

So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)

by Titus Pullo on Apr 21, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good Trade

Barton was not going to be a factor for the Cards, not this year and not in future years. Boyer is a gamble but a gamble worth taking.

by Warcard on Apr 21, 2009 9:30 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

when I heard of the trade

I immediately pictured you having a drink and holding back tears

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not very happy about it

but I think that maybe it is best for the guy, and it will give me an excuse to watch another team if the Braves play him (plus they seem to be an interesting team this season).

I really need to figure out who my new favorite quirky player will be, now that Ank is painful to watch and Astronaut is gone… probably Thurston. Pujols and Luddy are my real favorites. If Khalil Greene keeps hitting home runs and making fancy plays like he did in the game that I saw in person on Saturday, he will be in consideration as well.

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 21, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and

bobby cox believes Boyer would benefit from a change of scenery.

Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!

by cardwash on Apr 21, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't like the trade.

Comparing him to K-Mac is doing Kyle a complete disservice. McClellan was much better in his first half than Boyer was last year, and didn’t implode on a John Rocker level in the second half like Boyer did.

I was poring over this trade last night, trying to figure out what the Cardinals see in Boyer that makes him a better option than the other right-handed bullpen options in the minors. I came up with three things:

  1. He gets a lot of ground balls (46% of balls in play) while striking out 8 hitters per nine.
  2. His walks have dropped dramatically at the big league level — indicative of a guy who’s harnessed his control and just needs to make better pitches or have a better strategy to get people out.
  3. Dave Duncan, Miracle Worker

The first point looks great, until you remember he’s not a starting pitcher and Brad Thompson gets a lot of ground balls too. Also, of the 37.6% of balls in the air in ’08, 12.5% of them went out of the park — not exactly comforting.

Obviously Barton didn’t have a place on this team, but I have to think that there were better options out there for a trade than Boyer. Usually I’d be ecstatic to get a major league pitcher for a minor league outfielder, but I’m not sure that’s the case here.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Boyer

I am a Brian Barton fan, but understand trading him for bullpen help. What I don’t understand is why you trade Barton for a reliever that we need to fix up. If you are going to bolster the bullpen by trading Brian Barton, wouldn’t you target an arm who is ready to do some bolstering? Do we have any reason to suspect that Boyer will be any more effective than Perdomo an in-house call-up?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Apr 21, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Remember, the reason he was here is because another org decided he wasn’t worthy of a spot on a 40 man roster.

by Toddius on Apr 21, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perdomo

Was not on our 40-man roster, and he is doing pretty well for the first-place Padres (at least in his 2.1 IP—fun with small sample sizes!).

I think he could at least be worth someone with a sub-5.00 ERA from a year ago, let alone a castoff from the Atlanta Braves bullpen…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Apr 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Perdomo have to stay on the Padres 25-man roster?

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

He has to stay on a major league roster (or DL) this season or else he is returned to STL for $25k

by ubeddie on Apr 21, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe so

I was simply backing up the point that Barton may not be viewed as having a lot of value by other teams.

The Cards likely made a mistake with Perdomo, because they had spots they could have used. In any case, it’s still possible we get him back. The Giants decided they couldn’t keep him in the majors for a full season, so maybe he still needs too much work. In any case, he’s not a Johan Santana type rule 5 draftee.

by Toddius on Apr 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is where I fall line as well

Sure, Barton had no future here and he probably isn’t going to ever be a major league regular. But trading him for a AAAA reliever that isn’t good enough for a bullpen that’s probably not even as good as our OWN bullpen seems ridiculous on the face of it.

We’re not even out of the first month yet. By the time ol’ Dunc gets Boyer all figured out, there may be a team that has significant outfield injuries (possibly Atlanta again) and then the price for a guy who can be a 1 win player defensively goes up — hopefully to the point where the Cards can get back a reliever who might actually help our bullpen right away, and doesn’t double as a guy that we already have, in triplicate, in the current bullpen or the high minors.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think a big part of why we believe Barton has so much value,

is because he was really really awesome. From the aerospace, to the dreads, to the hat falling off, to the awesome.

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Gibson

by davethebutcher on Apr 21, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 22, 2009 5:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that...

12.5% of 37.6% = 4.7% or 12.5% of all batters?

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Apr 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was wondering the same thing...

12.5% of fly balls being homers is obviously scary. I don’t know about 4.7% though, is that a lot or a little?

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's HR/FB on Fangraphs

so it would be 12.5% of the 37.6% = 4.7% of all batters.

Here’s the link to his page.

So 12.5% of his fly balls go out of the yard, and 4.7% of all balls in play leave the yard.

For reference, Springer’s HR/FB rate last year was 5.9% last year and 3.6% in 2007. Franklin’s data is 10.4% in ’08 and 9.3% in 2007.

Not sure what the league average would be for a reliever, but when your rate is higher than Franklin’s, who seems to give up a lot of homers, that can’t be a good sign.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's actually a bit weirder than that

It’s (ALL HR)/(Number of FB). So if a guy hits a ball classified as a line drive, and it goes out, it’s included in the numerator and not the denominator.

For most guys, this isn’t a big issue; LD’s are only about 5% of all home runs. But guys like Pujols and Luddy hit a lot of them (~30%) and it makes their HR/FB look “unsustainably” high when it really isn’t. And guys who give up a lot of smashed line drives for HR’s look “unlucky” when in reality they were “bad”.

You can’t actually get this information from fangraphs; you have to combine fanraphs and B-R data to work it out, and they sometimes have slightly conflicting BABIP data…

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

unfortunately

your last point probably makes it a rare fair trade. This is the kind of trade the cards should make and could easily make again without gutting the MiL OF. We’ll see about boyer.

And now for something completely different: I don’t understand the poll. Am I voting for who I like better or who has greater value or what?

by spencegrif on Apr 21, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who says Duncan

does not have the idea of making him into a starter. Wellemeyer was a reliever at the major league level. Also Boyer has experience as a starter in the minors just like Wellemeyer.

by ridgesee on Apr 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh kill me now

Not that the Colonel hasn’t worked out, it’s just so stressful…

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

between that comment and your avatar

it gave me chills…scary, scary robot…

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
Yeah, I'm a loser...

by nomar34 on Apr 21, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

love it

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

funny...i was thinking the same thing

especially when DanUp mentioned his minor league starting experience.

Milt Thompson FTW!

by gossard56 on Apr 21, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just from his highlight video he has three pitches

1. mid nineties fastball
2. mid eighties slider(?)
3. mid sevenies curve

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Apr 21, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's only started throwing a slider this year

and been spectacularly unsuccessful with it. Not sure what’s happening there as he’s also seemingly ditched his curveball (in his 3 appearances so far).

His third pitch is a mediocre changeup that’s only really a “show me” pitch. I suspect he throws it a bit to LHB but he’s awful against lefties, which probably precludes him from starting.

See here for further details: http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/4/21/846999/a-quick-look-at-blaine-boyer-our

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 21, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Erik

posted a graph yesterday that suggested a changeup – but maybe that was the slider based on speed.

by Toddius on Apr 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so he's brad thompson 2.0?

the brad thompson we had wasn’t good enough but TLR loves the idea of brad thompson so Mo get brad thompson 2.0.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Apr 21, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he said 2.0

that would be the upgraded version, duh…

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
Yeah, I'm a loser...

by nomar34 on Apr 21, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

someone better tell him not to abuse puppies

you know, just in case he has a bad inning or fifty & he needs to vent

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2.0 kicks puppies, too

he just kicks them harder.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe I was the first to call Boyer to the rotation at some point down the road

In yesterday’s main thread

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that's just uncanny

Because I’ve got a cookie for you right here!

:-P

by mojowo11 on Apr 21, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hooray cookies!

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

his first start

will result in me throwing things at the tv preemptively.

by spencegrif on Apr 21, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade

I understand that Barton was probably never going to be more than a serviceable bench player at best, but don’t we have a bunch of Boyer types in our minor league system?

I don’t understand what Boyer adds to the team.

by graffin on Apr 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

especially for a team that

has “so much RHP talent” we can afford to keep Pedormo off the 40 man.

by felone on Apr 21, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have stuck with our righty relievers

but…Boyer has big league experience and all of our potential big leaguers in the minors don’t. TLR and Dunc probably hope that they can fix Boyer and don’t have to worry about the “oh shit i’m pitching in the big leagues” factor that seems to have hurt Motte and Perez so far.

Milt Thompson FTW!

by gossard56 on Apr 21, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

dazed and confused

I don’t understand this trade, boyer is meh, and barton forgot how to hit over the winter. I think this is selling low on barton, but then again if he never gets his stick back…….

This is one of those bizare out of left field deals, no body saw it coming. I understand that there is an outfield glut but blaine boyer, wtf?

"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"

by elirock83 on Apr 21, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As DanUp sez

This move has me thinking that they must be pretty confident Boyer is the kind of pitcher they can make successful adjustments with. What’s that, he gets ground balls? What’s that, he started a bunch in the minors? I can hear the whirrs and whooshes of tiny gears and pistons activating in Dave Duncan’s steam-powered difference engine of a brain.
OK, I remember asking this a long time ago, but wasn’t there some mysterious “problem” that the organization had with Barton, at least at some point? I seem to remember a cryptic paragraph or two from the likes of Bernie of Strauss about it, but to my knowledge the facts were never really revealed. Is this old news or is it still a mystery?

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 10:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

there must have been something they didn’t like about him. For whatever reason, they didn’t think he had much value as a major leaguer. So much that they were willing to leave us somewhat exposed to LHers to start the season. It’s worked well so far, but the splits should eventually catch up.

by Toddius on Apr 21, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, they obviously didn't think he had a place

and I’ll at least buy that as a long-term position given our outfield situation. Short-term is still feels like he could help out against lefties. The problem I am thinking though seemed like more of an off-the-field problem, at least from my hazy memory of it.

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And of course as the BP quote insinuates below

it’s probably just a racist belief that intelligent black players must have bad makeup. Blah.

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's what worries me though

The Braves have no bullpen and few right handed relievers in the minors, and they were willing to part with a guy who was pretty good for half the season last year for an outfielder that may or may not have an impact on their team.

Why would a team that needs bullpen help be trading away a guy who could potentially help them? Over the years, I can count the number of poor moves they’ve made on one hand (Jermaine Dye, ummm…..maybe Kyle Davies, stressing maybe?). This being the case, I worry that they think he stinks because he’s stunk for a half season and hasn’t looked good this year.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

poor moves

adam wainwright and jason marquis (debatable) come to mind

by _pistol_ on Apr 21, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

regardless

new GM, new slate

by _pistol_ on Apr 21, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Debatable?

Really? Here’s the guy they dealt Wainwright and Marquis for. They thought they were going to be able to sign him to a $8-$10M a year contract extension and couldn’t get it worked out before the season, so he went out and put up a 1.000 OPS the next season and signed a huge contract with the Dodgers. Giving up two starting pitchers who don’t really fit in your staff (and Marquis hadn’t done much in Atlanta anyway, outside of frustrating Leo Mazzone to no end.) for an outfielder who finishes 6th in the MVP voting the next season really can’t be called a bad trade.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They were gonna lose him anyway

They were going with a four-man rotation as long as they could, needed Boyer’s spot for their fifth starter.

I don’t know Atlanta’s organization that well, but just looking at their roster, it wouldn’t be shocking if the only RHRP with options remaining is Parr, and he’s up holding down Campillo’s spot. That they chose to DFA Boyer isn’t a huge knock on him considering their roster situation and his ineffectiveness thus far in 2009.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we put in a claim and some other team higher on the pecking order did, too, and we had to work out this trade to block the claim. (Not sure how much information sharing between teams is allowable in these situations.) As great of a story Barton is, he’s expendable.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's kinda what I'm saying

The Braves don’t have a good bullpen, and we just traded for the guy they thought was expendable out of their bad bullpen. This isn’t a team that just releases good players, yet they just DFA’d him, so I have a hard time believing that he has any more value to our bullpen than a guy like Salas does.

I’m not saying that Barton isn’t expendable, I just think that there was probably going to be a deal somewhere that was better than this one.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point I was clumsily trying to make is that somebody had to go from the Braves bullpen to make room for the fifth starter (either now or when Campillo returns); the pitcher they chose to part ways with has some promise and it sounds like the Cardinals were after him during the offseason; he probably wouldn’t have fallen to us on a straight waiver claim; and we traded away an expendable piece for him.

If the Braves chose him as the odd-man-out because of injury and not ineffectiveness, then yeah—bad trade. (Even though he could return after the all star break and that would be like trading for a bullpen arm without having to give anything up.) He seemed to pitch pretty good in Spring, aside from the four walks. We need more innings for outfielders at Memphis now that Craig will probably be moving out there with Freese going down.

A lot of good can come from this, and not much bad.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

a fair bit of good

a lot seems a bit of a stretch unless he goes all todd welley on us.

by spencegrif on Apr 21, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of good

If he’s a useful bullpen arm and it gets more playing time for our upper minors outfield depth (and eases the 3B crunch by getting innings for Craig in the Memphis outfield).

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cardinals didn't seem high on Barton, for whatever reason

So I don’t mind them trading him. I’m not sure what to think of Boyer at this point. It does seem like more could have been had for Barton, but perhaps that’s just bias.

by saladdays on Apr 21, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not High on Barton

I don’t understand them not being high on Barton. They did leave him in the Majors all last year so they could hold on to him. In retrospect, they could have given that playing time to someone else and we wouldn’t have had the glut in Memphis this year. 20/20 hindsight I know…

by OldieWan on Apr 21, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they forgot to tell the media relations guys

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Apr 21, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you guys remember the scene at from the beginning of the very first Batman movie (with Michael Keaton)...

Right after falling into the vat of chemicals, the Joker is getting cosmetic surgery at a run down little doctors office…

He rips off the bandages, sees himself in the mirror, and immediately loses his mind and just starts laughing in that kind of scary and homicidal way…

The doctor pleads “Look what I have to work with!” as he points to the little table with the outdated and dirty surgical instruments…

Every once in a while (Kip Wells….) I think of this scene with TLR as the Joker and Dave Duncan as the Doctor

SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426

by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 21, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions   4 recs

Boyer Speaks

From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

"I’ll miss Atlanta, but I’m fired up right now to be a Cardinal," Boyer said from his Atlanta area home not long after speaking to Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak and manager Tony La Russa.

"Sometimes when your time is up, it’s just up," Boyer said. "I lost a little bit of confidence of Skip’s [manager Bobby Cox] and that’s understandable … I had a great spring. For whatever reason I just got in a funk. I pitched three games and two of them were rough. That’s just how it went. I was the odd man out. Baseball is a business and sometimes it’s difficult."

So he knows what it’s like to be in the managers doghouse. Perfect, welcome aboard. You’ll fit in fine.

We get Mo’s take on him from the AP via SI.com.

“Our scouting reports were very positive,” Mozeliak said. “We just thought it had an awful lot oup side for us.”

So there you have it, he did well in the highly regarded internal team metric of OUP. Must be some sort of Jeff Luhnow creation.

"There are three things the average man thinks he can do better than anybody else: build a fire, run a hotel and manage a baseball team."- Rocky Bridges

by That's a Winner on Apr 21, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oup-side

That’s the side of a ship that kind of sucks, but if you really squint you can see it not sinking, eventually.

by DanUpBaby on Apr 21, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was just a mispronunciation of "opps"

You know, OPS. Mo’s been watching too much ESPN. He thinks Boyer has potential to hold righties to a low opps in middle relief.

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Perdomo on the team

Not really sure what the line of thought is on this one. I thought Barton had more value than this. And I think the righthander they already had was as good if not better than Boyer.

by Walking Underwear on Apr 21, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Barton not valuable?

True, Barton was always going to be a fourth OF. That, however, doesn’t mean he didn’t have a chance to be incredibly valuable. Just yesterday I was telling a Brewers’ fan how excited I was for 2010 when the Cardinals would have the perfect balance in their OF. 2 lefties—Rasmus and Duncan and 2 righties—Barton and Luddy. Those four were going to give the Cards the most amazing flexibility to platoon for power and OBP on one hand or speed and defense on the other. I’m not devastated, but I will say I saw Barton as a solid contributor after Ankiel’s departure this offseason.

by Cardaholic on Apr 21, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Barton wasn't going to even be our 4th

Mather®, Jay(L), Craig, Jones(L) all have more chance of being our 4th OF than Barton did

Not to say that Barton can’t be a good 4th OF but he just wasn’t in the plans here. 2010 could bring us the OF of Duncan, Rasmus, Lud starting with Mather and Jones as backups.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Apr 21, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shane Robinson

He’s got pretty much the same tools as Barton, plus can play center well and just might be the best base stealer we’ll have had since Delino.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

craig

i hope we see craig up in the OF before too long too. no question barton didn’t have a role.

by spencegrif on Apr 21, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa now

Shane-o does not have near the OB or power skills that Barton has. He is a better defender and might hit for a better average but that is it.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
Yeah, I'm a loser...

by nomar34 on Apr 21, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

minor league career numbers

Robinson: .285/.339/.376/.714
Barton: .314/.413/.475/.888

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Apr 21, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has not yet put up the on-base or power numbers that Barton has. You may be right and he never will. The organization may be right in thinking him the better player going forward.

Ideally, they’ll both do well.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i can't buy into all this "barton wasn't very valuable" talk,

unless somebody wants to assure me I won’t see brendan ryan leading off for the rest of the season.

and “the club wasn’t going to use him, so we might as well chuck him for a questionable pitcher” talk doesn’t impress me. shouldn’t we be asking why the club wasn’t going to use him?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, we shouldn't be asking that

If our outfield is Lud, Rasmus, and someone who’s hitting like Duncan.

by sdrone on Apr 21, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

since ryan leads off against lefties, and duncan has not shown yet that he has shed his

platoon split in his 20-odd PA’s, i think it’s a totally legitimate question.

do we currently have a better outfield against left-handers than barton-rasmus-ludwick? i doubt it.

maybe duncan suddenly has discovered how to hit lefties, maybe not. the sample size is a bit small.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like small sample sizes

because it doesn’t take as long to read. I’ll take Ludwick, Rasmus, Duncan in the OF against lefties

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that will be an unhappy circumstance if duncan goes back to hitting lefties

to the tune of a .646 OPS against lefties — his current career split.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're not the only one

I share those same concerns. We’re likely to struggle against lefties. The Mets added a second lefty in the pen for this series because they see a vulnerability. I expect more of the same from future opponents. I also think teams will shape their rotation whenever possible to put lefthanders against us.

by Merry CRasmus on Apr 21, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The flipside to that

Is that we are positioned to give righthanders the sweats before they throw their first warmup.

by Merry CRasmus on Apr 21, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where would he have played?

Others have pointed out that our OF has better hitters already so he really had no position to play. And against LHP with Skip on the bench I would probably go with Rasmus (if he is starting) or the best OBP of the MIF/3B which could be Ryan at some point.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Apr 21, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in left field against left-handed pitching.

and we don’t have better hitters against lefthanded pitching currently on the club.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LHP Splits

Barton: .258/.374/.371/.745
Ludwick: .240/.320/.484/.805
Duncan: .215/.270/.376/.646
Ankiel: .244/.287/.468/.755

Ankiel and Ludwick both have similar or better (depending on how you look at it) splits. Duncan has been better than his career this year and I didn’t look at minor league splits for Colby.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Apr 21, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ankiel has only a very marginally better split (10 points of ops)

since i was originally addressing a leadoff spot, barton’s obp of .374 (!) is extremely relevant to this discussion and is a primary reason for why he should have been considered for the leadoff slot against LHP.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes but is he worth it to not carry someone else?

So that means we lose the extra boost of OPS from Ankiel to play Barton just so he can lead off, and we have to use a roster slot on him versus someone else. I just don’t understand why we would carry someone just for that small subset of situations.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Apr 21, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

versus carrying two left-handed pitchers who can't effectively pitch to

right handers? versus carrying brian barden, joe thurston, skip schumaker, and brendan ryan?

barton was not limited to that role of leading off versus left-hander: that was simply an obvious and important role that he could have filled for which we did not have an obvious substitute.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he can't fill any other roll

We have 4 outfielders that in every other situation I feel he is behind them. Barden can now be considered our starting 3B which leaves Thurston and Ryan as our backup IFs. Schumaker is our starting 2B and normal leadoff. I really don’t see Barton replacing any of them since he can’t fill the roles they do. 2 LOOGYs (and that is all they are supposed to be) are a TLR requirement that we all just have to learn to live with as well. There was just no way he would make the 2009 or 2010 teams even if we needed a 5th outfielder it would probably have been Mather or Jay and not Barton.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Apr 21, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WE.... DON'T.... NEEED.... THRREEEEE.... BACKUP.... MIDDLE.... INFIEEELDDERRRSS....

There.

I said it.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 22, 2009 5:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We can ask that

but I don’t think we can answer it. Why the club wasn’t using him would be pure speculation on our part. TLR didn’t think he was a good defender for some reason, he made someone angry, etc. Whatever the reason, the club didn’t think they needed him.

Shane Robinson can probably lead off against lefties.

by Toddius on Apr 21, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I feel a bit sorry for Freese

My initial reaction was , “oh, crabman. tear.” but when I reflected a bit more thoroughly, I realized someone was getting squeezed out by Boyer coming in. Now, the article many have linked/quoted at PD states Freese was told he’s being optioned to AAA.

I think he’ll have another shot (this year or next), but I think he just got squeezed by the combination of strong play from Thurston / Barden and TLR’s love of splits. If we do get Glaus back this year, Freese would have been optioned at that time, since the other “3Bmen” originated as Middleinfielders.

Regardless, Freese will get to tell all the others in Memphis (aside from Kinney/PuppyKicker) about what April 6 was like, riding around on the trucks and meeting the Cardinal Legends. Great memories Dave. Hope to see you again soon.

Here’s to raking in AAA.

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Apr 21, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Second

the raking in AAA. Here’s hoping the two weeks spent idling won’t have any adverse effects.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To me

this trade is at worst a wash. Barton was a good player, but probably not good enough to make an impact for the cardinals, given the outfield glut. Blaine Boyer will either turn out really well and make Mo look like a genius or he won’t work out and they gave up 1 of their 86 outfielders (who wasn’t hitting in the minors) for nothing.

on a somewhat related note, Blaine is one of the names that has made the final boy name list for my unborn child, should I evaluate the name in relation to Boyer’s performance this year?

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My opinion

that’s one of those hindsight is 20/20 things where you can adjust the story you tell him depending on how well Boyer pitches and whether the kid turns out to be a pain in the neck.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd go with Albert

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately

You really don’t have a back-up plan for a story to tell your kid if he’s bad. I can’t think of too many other desirable figures with the first name Blaine.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Blaine

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Apr 21, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um....

wouldn’t that be cursing your kid for all eternity?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blaine was my dad's middle name

and my last name is Burns, so I kind of like the B.B. If it’s a girl, I like Bailey (B.B.), but the wife isn’t too fond of it. (says it’s a dog’s name)

still have 7 months or so to go, so who knows what we’ll end up choosing. it’s the whole naming thing that gets you attached

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

right now

58% of registered VEB voters suggest you name him Brian.

by DanUpBaby on Apr 21, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

not here

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Apr 21, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lol, agreed

lets talk BASEBALL

by TheBirds on Apr 21, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Bailey as a girl's name

My fiancee and I have these naming discussions all the time, and Bailey is in our top two for girls names, the others being Zoe (or Zoey, we’re not sure how we want to spell it — I like the first one).

Bailey Burns is a great sports name too. I always think about how a sports announcer would announce the name during a starting lineup when I’m looking for names. Not sure if that makes me weird or not…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if only my wife agreed

but it doesn’t matter, because I’m convinced it will be a boy. my brother had all girls, so it’s up to me to pass on the family name.

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like it too, mainly because in 1978 I

had the hots for Jan Smithers as Bailey Quarters on WKRP. Wait, did I just date myself?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 21, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I "date" myself on occasion

it’s just convienient sometimes

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

and fun

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
Yeah, I'm a loser...

by nomar34 on Apr 21, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he does deserve to be wined & dined

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dine with myself on a daily basis

I always eat out, I wouldn’t want my loved one to do any dishes

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 21, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'll never have kids

but if i do, and it’s a girl, she’ll be called Seven

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your last name wouldn't happen to be nine would it?

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Apr 21, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seven?

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WHAT'S IN THE BAAAAAAAXXXXX?????????????????????

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm due in about 3 weeks

and we’re having a Zoey…somehow without the Y, it just looks incomplete to me.

mel

by mel1975 on Apr 21, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

congrats!

hope everything goes well.

btw, zoey is a kick ass name. kudos.

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks.

she already has two cards outfits……I’ll be training her from the cradle.

mel

by mel1975 on Apr 21, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glad to see

that you will be bringing her up right – loving Cardinal baseball!

by cardsgirl95 on Apr 21, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My birthday is three weeks from today

I hope your daughter and I get to share a birthday :)

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that would be cool

although I’d be lying if I said sooner wouldn’t be better! :)

mel

by mel1975 on Apr 21, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, congratulations either way!

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Allen Iverson has a younger brother

whose first name is “Mister” and his middle name is “Allen”….and yes, his last name is Iverson.

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully Blaine Gabbert

if you’re a Mizzou fan….

"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang

by bmorgan on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i guess that doesn't help much, then

"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang

by bmorgan on Apr 21, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am just happy that you are not a KU fan

I have Illini friends, I have Cub friends, I do not have KU friends

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with ya there

an allegiance to KU is just indefensible

"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang

by bmorgan on Apr 21, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I see someone walking down the street

Wearing Cub’s gear it doesn’t really bother me. I know to many Cub’s fans for it to really bother me.
I see someone wearing KU gear and I can feel my fists tightening.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i heard...

his dad bathed him in protein as a kid

by bigmcq16 on Apr 21, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blaine and Antoine?

Yeah…probably not the best example…

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO...

i had forgot about that, nice.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
Yeah, I'm a loser...

by nomar34 on Apr 21, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, that brings back memories

I watched that show every time I went over to this one friend’s house with my brother. Probably contributed partially to warping my mind. Homey don’t play that!
On the other hand, my brother and this friend of ours were massively into baseball cards for a few years so that part was a positive influence.

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barton seemed like a nice fit

He was right handed, unlike most of our other OF options. He pinch hit well, played decent defense, ran well. Not a star, but a nice part to have around. Blaine Boyer is a hard throwing righty without much of a track record, and Perez and Motte seem to give us a couple of those already.

As far as his makeup goes, the quote below from the 2008 Baseball Prospectus is all I ever read about it:

“There were some whispered concerns about Barton’s makeup during the year, but they amounted to little more than an ugly reminder that, even more than half a century after Jackie Robinson, there remains a small segment of the baseball community that is unable to accept intelligent black players.”

by tarakas on Apr 21, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Whuh?

What is BP’s basis for saying that?

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know why they said that

It’s such a strong accusation, that it has always stuck with me.

by tarakas on Apr 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

everyone knows that Abner Doubleday was racist

(or the British, depending on who you believe invented the game)

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weird

I wonder if some lowly writer just stuck that in there to try to make an otherwise ho-hum preview of a fringe player interesting?

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BP does bring up race at times

I believe they have said some of the hatred and poor press treatment of Bonds has been racially motivated. And long before BP, Bill James and others wrote of double standards for players based on race.

I don’t want to make this a big issue—I’m just pointing out that some writers, including at BP, seem to think that African-American players are sometimes handled less charitably by teams and the press. I think the Barton comment, whether accurate or not, is working along that established theme.

by tarakas on Apr 21, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The way players are projected are funny

About Jason Heyward BA had this to say:

He draws physical comparisons to Fred McGriff, while his tools are similar to Willie McCovey’s and his approach is comparable to Frank Thomas’.

Basically he’s like a good black player.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha

Haven’t we had this conversation on this board? It was hilarious.
IE, Barton could never be compared to Shane Robinson, but maybe Lofton, or our own Daryl Jones, or maybe Ray Lankford, or maybe Willie Mays, or maybe [insert black guy because black players are only comparable to other black players]

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, i am reminded of my sarcasm meter being broken

and looking like quite the bleeding heart…

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Apr 21, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We did have this convo

Because Skip Schumaker couldn’t be the next Kosuke Fukudome and Fukudome can be nothing more than the next homeless man’s Ichiro with more power and not as good of plate discipline contact ability or defense.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

skip could never be "athletic"

and barton could never be “scrappy”.

One reason I hate scouts.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah

Barton can be scrappy like Juan Pierre but he can’t be gritty and “just a winner”.

White guys can be “athletic” like Mather, but they’re never “raw” or “toolsy”, they’re “based on projection”.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Side note

It is difficult for me to read hockey analysis frequently because in hockey grit actually does mean something i.e. going to the net where you’re liable to get hit in the face with a puck, cross checked bumped bruised whatever, but my natural baseball reaction is “bullshit”.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

another reason for that

is they became major league regulars the same year, so it wouldn’t make sense for one to be the next of the other.

by spencegrif on Apr 21, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it

That is a pretty strong accusation to float out there by BP.

by graffin on Apr 21, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once a year

the BP groundhog sees its shadow, and they have to write one vague, strident thing into the book.

by DanUpBaby on Apr 21, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's more about his attitude that I found via an online search

From Baseball America’s 2007 Rule Five Draft write up:

“Ever the enigma, Barton went undrafted in 2004 after clubs were scared off by his aerospace engineering major at Miami….. Quiet and leading through example through his 2006 season, some scouts expressed concerns about Barton’s demeanor. “I loved him that first year in Double-A,” one scout from a National League club said. “But this past year, it was almost like he’d earned this elite status and you saw him have this lackadaisical approach to the game that wasn’t there before. Where he was playing with chips on both shoulders with something to prove initially, that part of his game was replaced by some sort of false bravado. He’s really tough to get a handle on, but the tools are very real.”

I’ve never had the impression that quiet and reserved is what Larussa likes in a player, which may have been part of the problem.

by tarakas on Apr 21, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh.

Isn’t Khalil Greene the quiet and reserved type? I mean, if Barton got arrogant or something that is understandable. I had never heard that before, thanks for digging it up.
And, um… I wonder how somebody’s college major could scare teams off? I mean, is every athlete supposed to major in sports management or something? Or was it more like uncertainty that he was gonna follow up on baseball?

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was the thought

that he could go sign on at Boeing, or somewhere, and while making less than a major leaguer, be guaranteed more money than the average person (or minor leaguer)

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I guess that makes the most sense.

Still, the sentence made it seem like the major itself was somehow a negative. I know that I’ve known a lot of aerospace engineering majors who are total jerks (note: no I have not) but when I first read that it seemed weird.

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

baseball doesn't like geeks?

Is that like being “overqualified” when you apply for a part-time job?

Fail, baseball. Not all players want to broadcast when their career’s done.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Apr 21, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey a tough college major

takes time. Time you could spend on baseball. It’s really hard to handle both a tough degree and be a college athlete.

It might be seen as a lack of dedication or priorities. Or as uppity or something.

by tarakas on Apr 21, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just looked in on Braves Chop Shop

and they seem pleased with the trade. they are down on Garrett Anderson though. As per this post.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME………… GARRET ANDERSON? SERIOUSLY….. Are you kidding me Garret Anderson?? IN ADDITION TO YOUR……….. **** RIPPED “RIGHT” CALF MUSCLE *………. NOW YOU *TAKE YOURSELF OUT OF THE GAME because of a *****MESSED-UP “LEFT” QUAD MUSCLE*******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So Garret Anderson, you are basicly TELLING US THAT YOU HAVE *********** 2 MESSED UP LEGS *************!!!!!!!!! I WILL TAKE IT EASY ON YOU TODAY AND JUST TELL YOU…………….. *RETIRE NOW, YOU WASHED-UP, SHREADED-MUSCLE, LAZY A, CIRCUS-PERFORMING FIELDING FREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOBODY WANTS YOUR LAZY, GIMPY A** IN ATLANTA!!!!!!! GET OUT OF TOWN….. BEFORE WE RUN YOU OUT OF TOWN!!!!!!!
By saltlake on April 19, 2009 3:09 PM

WOW! pretty rough on Anderson don’t you think? Barton might have found a home.

by ridgesee on Apr 21, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yikes

First of all, that kind of abuse of the Caps Lock key wouldn’t fly here. Heh.
Second, I can totally sympathize. It reminds me of when people around here got all nervous about Juan Gonzalez. Garret Anderson is 37 years old. You’d think a 37 year-old LF/DH who maybe just might put up a low-OBP league-average OPS would be threatened by young Professor Dredsocks. But that would be too logical I suppose.

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aghhh .... Blinded by Noobness

I hate mindlessly rants (outside of game threads).

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HMMMMM!

Do you tink we could have gotten Anderson for Barton?

by ridgesee on Apr 21, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

we're trying to corner the market

on left handed hitting outfielders?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get all the love for Barton

Sure, he was an exciting player — and an engineering major to boot!!! — but we’ve got about ten thousand outfielders. And Barton’s the what, fifth best at MOST? The only thing I’ll grant is that he used to be our only legitimate right-handed platoon leadoff hitter threat, but I’d prefer on most days not to supplant Ankiel or Rasmus or Duncan for him, despite facing a lefty. Maybe Ankiel, but STILL.

And our bullpen sucks, to boot. Anytime you trade from a glut for a weakness, it’s a good move — especially if your weakness is pitching. Good trade.

by ajabegg on Apr 21, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Every post I make seems to be accompanied by a followup, but...

I used “to boot” two times in that previous post. That means I’ve used “to boot” twice in my entire life. I plan to die having used “to boot” only twice.

Wait, do the above three count? Damn it.

by ajabegg on Apr 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, on a TLR-managed team,

Barton clearly was not a “legitimate” anything. He had as much chance of regular PT on the Cardinals as I do.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 21, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've aboot

had enough of your aboots

by ridgesee on Apr 21, 2009 12:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What are you talking aboot?

Canada has apologized for Bryan Adams on several occassions.

by Toddius on Apr 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're not my buddy, friend

you’re not my friend, buddy

(or was that the other way around)

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 21, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not your buddy, guy!

I’m not your guy, friend!
I’m not your friend, guy!

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

OT

it seems like it’s been ages since I saw a Cardinals game

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 21, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No kidding

I hear that the St. Louis baseball team is playing tonight. I seem to remember doing that before… but it’s all so hazy now…

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

especially since the game on saturday was blacked out

and the two before that were day games during the week. That makes it feel like a whole week, almost…

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's the ".5"?

You were at the game on Saturday, right?

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

but that game was a day game, hence the .5

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 21, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, I'm finally getting it.

half a day off after the game, followed by two days off and then half a day before tonight’s game.

Wow. That took more brain power than I’m willing to admit! ;-D

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boyer's Spring Training stats

10.1 IP 6H 1ER 0HR 4BB 8K .87ERA 1.33GO/AO . All the hits were singles too.

I know they are just spring training stats but those are good stats. He has a K/BB over 2 and GO/AO over 1. To me those are the 2 things I look at first when I am judging a pitcher. Someone that can strike guys out, doesn’t walk a lot of guys, and gets ground outs.

Now Blaine Boyer’s biggest problem to rule them all is his Left on Base % of 57% in 2008. That is mind blowing bad. Last year he was the worst of all relievers in LOB%. The next closest was 60%. That to me screams that is something wrong that could be fixed. Either bad luck, tipping his pitches, or he can’t pitch out of the windup.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Whaaa?
he can’t pitch out of the windup.

Did you mean that he “can’t pitch out of the stretch”? Because if he’s throwing from the windup with runners on that would explain a lot. I mean, one minor change and he could be Mo Rivera!

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha

Yeah I caught my self in a latter posts. I am like Windup… that is not right. Regardless he can’t pitch out of the stretch or he is tipping his pitches.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would guess that he struggles out of the stretch

A lot of starting pitchers converted to relievers have difficulty with it: coming in and immediately having to pitch out of the stretch with inherited runners on the bases. He seems to hold runners well, only one SB off of him, but then when the guy can’t get anybody out, why would you steal bases?

I do think he was pretty unlucky last year, and Atlanta wasn’t the greatest defensive team either, so that may have contributed to his ERA being over a run higher than his FIP. It still doesn’t explain the amount of homers he gave up last year though, especially in the second half of the season.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most of the home runs were lucky or just enough

per Hit Tracker and Busch Stadium you are 10% less likely to get a home run hit against you than Turner Field.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is encouraging

If he really has sustainably reduced walks and he as getting unlucky with homers, it sounds like he could be pretty effective.

by mattybobo on Apr 21, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

I think that the whole “tipping pitches” thing is way overblown. It’s one of those canned lines that get used to explain poor performance, but I’m just not sure there’s a whole lot to it in terms of it affecting performance.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you

That most “tipping pitches” thing is bull shit. But a 57% LOB is horrifically bad. Something is fucking wrong.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he is tipping anything it is fastball

His curveball and change up were not getting hitting hard. Anyone know where to look for release points of 2008 pitchers in Pitch/Fx?

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I once saw Paul Byrd tipping his pitches in 07

I was in the LF Bleachers at Jacobs Field and I could see it from there. Every time he would throw a fastball, he would glove the ball really hard, and with offspeed pitches he wouldn’t even glove the ball at all. Incidentally that was an interleague game against the Braves.

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Apr 21, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a surprising lot to it IMO

At the college level anyway it’s staggering how easy it is for scouts to call out pitches before they happen. That said, a player’s own team is going to be looking for them as well so it’s not as though you’ll be tipping them for very long.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying it doesn't happen

I’m sure that it does and when I played in high school there were certain pitchers who would tip off everything by how they held their glove, where they set up on the rubber, and so on.

I think that the overblown aspect is that knowing what’s coming actually helps the hitter to the point where he’s able to hit pitches at a much better rate. For some hitters, I think it would be a detriment, because they’re no longer reacting to the pitch thrown, they’re thinking about what should be coming and they may not get that pitch every time.

I think that knowing location would be more important than knowing what’s coming, and teams tip this all the time from second base with a runner on.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sitting on a pitch

i think knowing what pitch is coming will give you the location in some ways. especially if its a offspeed pitch. if pitch f/x shows that a pitcher’s change up will be low and outside 80% of the time then you do have the location. if a batter goes into a at-bat knowing how a change-up looks before its coming they can sit till they see that pitch.

obviously it won’t help with all pitchers and not all batters will exploit it but I’m sure it happens.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Apr 21, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not for me

You know soft stuff is going to be away unless it’s a lefty-righty slider in on the hands. And if you KNOW a fastball is coming: it’s going to be 100x easier to hit you can sit dead. red. If a pitcher still makes his pitch sure it’s not going to be a cupcake to hit, but a mistake where you know what is coming is in the seats.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

TIPPING HIS PITCHES!!!

I’ll bet DD has a great idea on how to fix that, just like he fixed Jo-el two years ago.

by spencegrif on Apr 21, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Luhnow and Mozeliak's formula for analyzing a player's value

My bet is that the Cardinals believe Boyer is undervalued, that his upside potential is better than that of their AAA middle reliever options, in the short term and long term.

I was a big fan of Barton, still am. I hope he is very successful with the Braves. But the Cardinals have a pressing need for ML relief pitching right now (given Kinney’s disappointing start and the failure to keep Springer). Barton’s skill set was superfluous for the Cardinals, considering Shane Robinson and Daryl Jones are younger and about as talented (SR) or more talented (DJ).

It would be interesting to see the details of Luhnow and Mozeliak’s formula for assessing the value of a player. My guess is that it includes not only statistical analysis, but rather includes a range of quantiative and qualitative factors, something like this:

- Strong arm (mid-90’s fastball and 67 K’s in 76 IP last year), unexcelled by anyone on the Cardinals’ ML relief corps other than Motte

- Third round draft pick – previous pickups of discarded or discredited players, like Ludwick, Wellemeyer, and others indicate that “high draft pick” is taken by the Cardinals as an indicator of talent (not necessarily of developed skill); this factor could have an important place in the Cards’ evaluation formula, given the team’s faith in Dave Duncan to channel raw talent and (developed skills) into an approach that harnesses the pitcher’s potential most effectively.

- Good athlete – Honorable mention All-American centerfielder in HS

- Excellent half season in MLB last year shows what he is capable of (a basis for projection that is more reliable than just minor league stats); Boyer’s failing in second half presumably is considered a result, at least in part, of his fatigue induced by overuse.

- Solid spring training stats (8 K’s, 6 H, 4 BB, no HR, 1 ER, in 10.1 IP).

- Poor start in 2009 is based on very small sample size and infrequent use.

I miss Barton. He might have been a better option on the ML roster than Ankiel so far, given Rick’s very slow start of his own and the Cardinals’ sore need for an effective RH leadoff hitter vs. LHP!

But I’m cautiously optimistic that the Cardinals’ formula for player assessing undervalued players that has succeeded with Ludwick and Wellemeyer will once again prove to be effective in adding value to the roster, on balance.

by CardsWin on Apr 21, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Or....
- Good athlete – Honorable mention All-American centerfielder in HS

Maybe since our current pitching-meltdown-come-big-league-centerfielder is off to a horrible start, they got themselves a backup option…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bench strength

good call, fourstick. maybe boyer will be used as a pinch hitter as well as a relief pitcher, given the four-man bench the cards will have as long as they carry 13 pitchers….

just kidding, of course.

wainwright might serve as a pinch hitter, though, in a pinch. (is that where the term pinch hitter came from…?)

by CardsWin on Apr 21, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did the other day

although it was just to sacrifice bunt. I do think that he’ll be used in a pinch when the bench is shortened. And we all know how much that’s going to happen with TLR at the helm: A whole hell of a lot.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More evidence of Luhnow and Mozeliak's analysis

Fox offers more insight into Luhnow and Mozeliak’s assessment of Boyer:

Boyer was most effective in his 2005 rookie season, when he was 4-2 with a 3.11 ERA in 43 appearances, but has not rediscovered that form since shoulder surgery in 2006….

(In 2008) Boyer collapsed after working 52 2/3 innings in 51 appearances before the All-Star break….

Mozeliak cited Boyer’s durability, arm strength, his plus curveball and a thumbs-up from front office numbers crunchers as elements working in his favor.


Another factor in the LM formula seems to be that a player recovering from injury or surgery may be undervalued, as well (cf. Carpenter, Ludwick, Barden, etc.). The fact that Boyer was effective his rookie year , before his surgery, and the first half of 2008, after his surgery, probably reinforces the Cards’ valuation for him. How many relief pitchers could avoid wearing down if asked to throw over 50 IP in just half a season, as Boyer was asked to do last year, especially after surgery?!

by CardsWin on Apr 21, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to see

what kind of stuff Sig Mejdal works on…

If only they had a day similar to “Kids Run the Bases Day” but for amateur analysts. “Geeks Crowd Into Mejdal’s Office” day or something.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shadowing Mejdal

Shadowing Mejdal for a day would, indeed, be very interesting and probably very enjoyable:

"There are many players who are performing great but don’t look like a baseball player or are playing at a Division II or Division III school and the system wouldn’t give them a chance. They’re not first or even fifth rounders, but they have a dream just like the first-rounders do and arguably deserve it. Picking up some of those guys and seeing them appreciated has been wonderful."


From sabr.org

by CardsWin on Apr 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well then it all makes sense

[Sarcasm] — Who cares if he wanted out? Last time I checked he was getting paid not-unsubstantial amounts to play baseball for the St. Louis Cardinals organization. If his personal desires were the reason for trading him that would be even worse than any miscalculation of the players’ relative values.

by OCCardsFan on Apr 21, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

at least

they would be increasing player relations?

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 21, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it worth it?

We had to keep Barton up all year, but we always seem to have this roster in a constant state of flux. So we tie our hands with one roster spot all year and in the long run trade him for a middle reliever.

by bikestl on Apr 21, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Anthony Reyes

This is way off topic, but I just noticed Anthony Reyes has given up 8 hits in his two starts (11 IP) but six of those 8 hits have been for extra bases: 4 HR, 1 3B, 1 2B.

6 walks and only 3 strikeouts, too.

Wow.

by CardsWin on Apr 21, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He's just not very good

No matter what his minor league numbers look like. He’s a AAAA pitcher who can’t get big league hitters out consistently.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not AAAA

His stuff is just gone. When he first came up he was 90-94 touching 96 and was able to pitch off of that to get to his changeup. He lost it down 88-92 next we saw of him and was forced to pitch off his changeup so as to not get his FB hammered. Then he lost feel for his changeup and had to start mixing in his horrible slurve and that was all she wrote. Last I saw of him last year he was 85-89. Good luck Anthony, I hope you get your shoulder fixed.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So

had he gotten to the majors as fast as Mark Prior did he would have been effective for a couple of years before he went in the shitter? Seems like that’s what happened to Prior too, got hurt and could never recover his stuff.

I just don’t believe that’s the case. I’m pretty sure he was still throwing in the mid-90’s in 2007 and couldn’t get anybody out in his 20 starts that year. His K/BB has fallen off a cliff over the last 3 years. Maybe that’s due to loss of stuff, maybe it’s due to not being able to overpower better hitters and having to nibble on corners more to get by without getting shelled, even though he’s been shelled a lot since 2007.

If what you say is true, he’s only a two pitch pitcher (fastball, change) with middling control. I can’t think of too many big league starting pitchers who can get by with just two good (not great) pitches and nothing else, not matter how hard they throw or how great their change up is.

I’ll stand by my statement that I just don’t think that he’s a very good pitcher, good stuff or not.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

we talked about this in depth in the game threads then- he was hitting 93-94 in the game against the marlins where he gave up the grand slam to willingham, IIRC.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Touching 93-94 a couple times

Is very different from sitting in that range. When he came up for his cup of coffee two starts he was hitting 93 94 with regularity and I know touched 96.

Looking at fangraphs, I was basically right aside from that I thought he barely threw the slurve in his callup in ‘05. In his ’05 cup of coffee he averaged 91.4 fastball, threw his slurve 16% of the time, change 9.2%. Coming back ’06 he was down to 89.7 (-1.7 mph is HUGE), threw his slurve 14.8% and changeup 22%. ’07 his fastball was 89.6, threw the slurve 18.4%, change 13.6%. ’08 velo upticked to 90.9, threw his slurve 19% and change 9.6%. He’s down to 87.8 this year.

The hype of Reyes IMO was a result of him being able to set up a slow changeup (remember how many Ks he was able to get on 3-2 changeups?) and he lost the ability to do that by losing those 2 mph and was never able to recover. Now his stuff is shot to shit and he’s not remotely a major league pitcher.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to your data

He never “sat in the 93-94” range. His entire time in the big leagues he’s been around 89-91. He does have a devastating change up, and still does, his other stuff just gets hammered before he throws it.

I distinctly remember him saying that Duncan wanted him to keep the ball down even though that wasn’t what worked for him the rest of his career. You can take that one of two ways:

  1. Dave knew that a guy who doesn’t throw 95+ isn’t going to be successful up in the zone against big league hitters, so keeping the ball down was essential to him being effective. You can throw 91-92 past AAA hitters at the belt, you can’t do it to most major league hitters. In other words, his approach worked against lesser hitters and his filthy changeup allowed him to dominate in the minors.
  2. Reyes used to throw 95+ and then suddenly lost his velocity upon hitting the big league level, thereby neutering his ability to pitch up in the zone and rendering his change up useless because of the loss of difference in velocity.

I’m going with option #1. I saw him pitch 3 different times in the minors and I don’t ever remember him throwing in the mid-90’s on a consistent basis. I do think that he has lost some velocity since then, but I don’t think he was ever destined to be a great major league pitcher based on the stuff that he had. Regardless of where his velocity was joker, he still dominated at the minor league level when he was sent back there, indicating that he still had the stuff to get those hitters out. This is why I lean towards the fact that he just wasn’t ever going to be an above average starting pitcher at the big league level.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said up above, he sat 90-94 touched 96 once a game

This is far different from 88-92 touching 94.

The guy’s stuff dramatically changed from ‘05 to ’06 I know it: I saw it and the data says it too. 1.7 mph is a HUGE difference. He didn’t regularly pitch at the top of the zone, but he did change eye levels and you can’t do that unless you can regularly reach back for 94 which he WAS able to do but lost that for whatever reason.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Apr 21, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

He was touted as having a 96 mph fastball, in the 2005-2006 scouting reports. IE:

“The Cardinals Top Prospect, Anthony Reyes, throws a fastball that tops out around 96 miles per hour. The Cardinals spent the winter looking for a power pitcher, when they have one under their nose.”

“Anthony is the real deal with a fastball that tops out at 96 MPH and he throws a breaking ball, slider and change up.” -scout.com, Jan 2006

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right, I don't think he was ever as good as he was expected to be.

But people keep harping on the fact that he was the next great thing after sliced bread when he’s NEVER SHOWN THE ABILITY TO GET MAJOR LEAGUE HITTERS OUT ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. Neither did Todd Van Poppel, and he was a more highly touted prospect than Reyes was.

I’m sorry, but if he pitched in the Braves system and we traded Jason Motte for him last year, the same people that sing his praises here would be pissing and moaning about picking up a AAAA pitcher. It strikes me as homerism, kinda like Cubs fans with every prospect they have that doesn’t make it because they weren’t very good to begin with.

Look at it this way, the people who praise Reyes are the same people who bitch about Joel Piniero all the time. Piniero was a highly touted prospect once upon a time and he actually won 16 games in the big leagues and had some solid years in Seattle. He has a far better track record in the big leagues than Anthony Reyes does, yet people bitch about him all the time while pining for Reyes and questioning the organization’s handling of a kid who has 5 quality starts at the major league level. If Reyes could have repeated Joel Piniero’s first two full seasons I’d be satisfied that he was a #2 or #3 starter that simply lost it. He didn’t do that and I don’t think that he ever will.

I’d really like to root for the kid, but it’s hard for me to root for him when I know that people are going to come back and say “We should have kept that guy, look at him now!!!” after he has one or two good starts. It’s a endlessly frustrating conversation to have. Sometimes you just have to let go and admit that some guys aren’t as good as you thought they were and that some guys will rebound after a change of scenery.

FWIW, at least I can admit that I don’t like Anthony Reyes. That’s far more than you’ve ever admitted about your axe grinding on TLR and Duncan all the time HL.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

I fail to see what his 3 HR given up in Yankee Stadium has to do with his 1:2 K/BB ratio and the three extra base hits he gave up in his first start against Toronto. I guess if he keeps walking twice as many guys as he strikes out he’ll be less apt to give up “jetstream” homers?

Whatever….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the bid deal about Anthony was

he was the first potential, legit, big time ace of the staff type pitcher to come along in years. not since Ankiel & Matty Mo had the Cards minor leagues produced a pitcher with so much potential. and when he got here, and Dave immediately started f’ing with him, that really pissed off so many fans because he wanted to change everything that made Anthony a success up to that point. and when he had so-so success with flashes of brilliance, (IE the 1hitter in chitown & game 1 of the WS) fans believed if Dave would just shut up & get outta the kids way, we’d have a great cost controlled pitcher winning games for many years to come.

you have to understand no matter how many numbers & comps you throw at fans, you are never going to change their minds about Anthony. he’ll always be a great what if or if only for many years to come. and i am one of those fans.

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I realize that

I’m just one of those people that never gets truly emotionally attached to prospects until they really show they can play at the major league level, because I don’t like the feeling of total disappointment when they can’t hack it. If you look at my posts at the trade deadline last year you’ll see that because I was the one arguing that moving Rasmus in a trade for a big time starting pitcher like Peavy or Halladay would have been a defensible move considering where the Cardinals were and the depth of the outfield prospects that St. Louis had and still has.

I have too many friends, most of them Cub or Yankee fans, who are always talking about the “next big thing”, like Irish WR (I refuse to type his name because even when it’s spelled right it looks wrong) and Joba currently. The Yankees really haven’t developed a prospect since Soriano — most of their “top prospects” are so because they’re Yankee prospects, not because they’re any good. I look at Cub fans who hitched the wagon train to Wood and Prior, only to see them falter and crush the dreams of tons of Cub fans who’d swarm out in attendance at Sec Taylor in Des Moines to watch them throw three innings in a rehab start.

The only Cardinal I was remotely attached to as a prospect was Rick Ankiel and I did feel sick with how that whole thing turned out, and I couldn’t have been happier to shake his hand at BP prior to him hitting 3 HR’s shortly before his call up to St. Louis 2 years ago.

But Reyes simply wasn’t Rick Ankiel. He wasn’t Matt Morris. He wasn’t even Adam Wainwright. He faced Rich Hill in one of his starts in Des Moines, and Hill looked more dominant even though Reyes won the game. His numbers always looked good, but I never felt that he was a “dominant” type starter like those other guys looked when I watched them pitch for Memphis when they would visit Des Moines. I was really never sold that he was going to be the next great top of the rotation starter for St. Louis even though he was occasionally great. Great pitchers don’t get pounded when they don’t have their best stuff, they muddle through, and when they’re on, they’re impossible to hit. I never got that feeling from Anthony Reyes, so I find it hard to understand why other people feel so strongly that he was going to be a homegrown Cardinal staff ace.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 21, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blaine Boyer.... Behind the Name

1) 45% of the letters are vowels. Of one million first and last names we looked at, 11.2% have a higher vowel make-up. This means you are very well envoweled.

2)In ASCII binary it is… 01000010 01101100 01100001 01101001 01101110 01100101 00100000 01000010 01101111 01111001 01100101 01110010

3) Backwards, it is Enialb Reyob… nice ring to it, huh?

4) In Pig Latin, it is Aineblay Oyerbay.

5) According to the US Census Bureau°, 0.015% of US residents have the first name ‘Blaine’ and 0.0205% have the surname ‘Boyer’. The US has around 300 million residents, so we guesstimate there are 9 Americans who go by the name ‘Blaine Boyer’.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

What part of that site did you use?

I can’t find where you put the name in to get that result

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Apr 21, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Someone explain this to me:

Albert Pujols’s personal power animal is an arctic lemming?

"Statistics mean nothing to the individual"
"You are what you eat and you clearly went out and devoured a big fat guy"

by jacksonian on Apr 21, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mine too

wow that is so cool

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

here are mine

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 21, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mine is a...

Blast-Ended Skrewt? a harry potter reference apparently…

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Apr 21, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Apr 21, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That website

guesstimates that there is only one American with my name, when I know of three.

It’s guesstimate is no doubt based on the flawed assumption that first and last names are randomly distributed independently of one another.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there aren't a lot of liam santiagos? or liam kieslowskis? you think?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well it has to assume that

Otherwise the algorithm would take probably years to run for a single name

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guess I need to bulk up for softball season to live up to those expectations

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is embarrassing

I have no idea how to post the pic of my Power Animal but I’ll tell you what it is…….the Oompa Loompa.

Yup.

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my wife's name got that

so I forwarded (that sounds wierd) to DB1 over at hotchickswithdouchebags.com. he replied with a “heh, keep her away from the tanning products”

by STLRegalia on Apr 22, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure its Lyle Overbay

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lineups, per Matthew Leach:

David Freese, as expected, is the man out to make room for Blaine Boyer. Meanwhile, Boyer takes Brian Barton’s old number, 54.

Today’s lineup vs LHP Oliver Perez:
1. Ryan 2B
2. Ankiel CF
3. Pujols 1B
4. Ludwick RF
5. Molina C
6. Duncan LF
7. Greene SS
8. Thurston 3B
9. Wellemeyer P

by santiagofish on Apr 21, 2009 4:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

we really need to give

colby a chance vs. lefties. Rick isn’t the answer

gonna need more franklins to get through this one.

by hoofhearted-pujols on Apr 21, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan and Ankiel

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Apr 21, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, he probably isn't the answer

to the question “who should be batting second against a high-strikeout lefty with questionable control”.

Then again, every time I think I know somethign about Rick (errr, Dick) Ankiel, he goes and proves me wrong, so whatever.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I have single handedly solved Ankiel's problems

I dropped him off of my fantasy baseball teams. It was a team I haven’t updated inawhile and forgot I drafted him. Along with Ankiel on my roster, I had(have) Milton Bradley (funk/hurt) Soto (funk/hurt) Brandon Phillips (Funk)

while some of you are cursed when you go to games, I am cursed when I draft fantasy baseball

by STLRegalia on Apr 21, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Booooooo!

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

super ultra mega boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brendan Ryan is the worst leadoff man ever

"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang

by bmorgan on Apr 21, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I'd rather see "hot-streak" Barden against the lefty

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

me 2

Is Barden still “Slur It” even w/o his counterpart “Enunciate”?

"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang

by bmorgan on Apr 21, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

does his name then like those negative words without an affirmative?

so, one can be inept, but not “ept.”

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh, yes, yes yes

Why Thursty against the leftie?

by OCCardsFan on Apr 21, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

because in 2002 he got 4 hits of Oliver when they both were rookies

and as I typed that, it still didn’t make much sense to me why TLR chose him but that’s not my gripe. If TLR’s got a hankerin for more cowbell from Thursty, then fine, play him at the corner tonight, but for the love of pete incaviglia put Barden in at 2B and have Thursty or him lead off.

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Apr 21, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

The MooCow.

Actually, I have no idea.

Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.

by Tackle Box on Apr 21, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

well, more in honor of the guy in the movie, but that cowbell sounds fantastic (I like recording)

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 22, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It reminds me

of when Tony would start the bloated corpse of Roger Cedeno whenever we’d face Roger Clemens because he once had a good day against him in the early nineties.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i sure am glad we traded away one of our only legit RH outfielders.

there’s clearly nowhere for him to hit in this lineup.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to take this moment to thank the Lord

that if I have to watch Brendan Ryan be the leadoff hitter, he’s doing it atleast from 2B and not LF.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 21, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what kind of tranquilizers are you taking and can I have some?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baby steps

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK TLR has still not put a lineup I like out there.

To think, Freese coudl be batting instead of Ryan, but he wasn’t very good for those TWO WEEKS.

by TheBirds on Apr 21, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It seems like every evening for the last two weeks

I’ve been super excited for a game, then get really down once I see the lineup.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Apr 21, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thurston

is 4 for 4 against Perez. Ryan is 1 for 2 with a walk. Small sample sizes, but 4-4 is nice for a lefty on lefty.

by Toddius on Apr 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is oliver perez we

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

. . . are talking about

>darned gorilla fingers<

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Free Craig?

Who’s with me?

by TheBirds on Apr 21, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Craig Nelson should get more work.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Apr 21, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's

Craig T. Nelson, to you.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Apr 21, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how about free ryan, somewhere at least 500 miles away from the team bus?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somehow, I see him reacting to that news not too badly

“Aw, c’mon guys! Oh well, time to start walking! [hums a happy tune]”

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

except ryan doesn't walk

he’s more of a skipper.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

perfect

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For posterity's sake

I feel compelled to mention that MGL largely disproved that individual matchups are predictive of future performance. You’re far better looking at a player’s overall stats.

by azruavatar on Apr 21, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you know and I know that TLR will play those individual matchups to his deathbed

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in 2002...

when they were both rookies….

in the nl west….

bit of a reach.

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Apr 21, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the potential downside to this trade...

Boyer is only a little better than replacement level reliever. We have a shit ton of options in the minors who could pitch just as well. "

St. Louis Cardinals… defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 20, 2009 10:06 PM EDT

*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*

by Red Blazer on Apr 21, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They will probably get to the bullpen early

We have 8 of them now and will rotate them with the guys in Memphis off and on….. Oh you mean the Mets bullpen

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why doesn't WW

make his normal start today?

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no if he pitches today he pitches sunday against the cubs

instead of pitching on a weeks rest

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

per leach

“When you look at the matchups, it works out better for our pitchers,” said pitching coach Dave Duncan. “The matchups are better. Lohse has had better luck against New York than Chicago, and Wainwright’s pitched OK against Chicago.”

by cardfan124 on Apr 21, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lohse will start thursday on normal rest

but that shouldn’t stop WW from pitching today and sunday

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why is there a cork on my fork?

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why?

So everyone doesn’t get terribly off on their rest.

Starters like to be on a regular rotation. Not multiple days off from their regular assignment.

WW even said so much on the P-D website (blog or article).

by BirdsonFire on Apr 21, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we already crossed that bridge

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Apr 21, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just to get ready for a Mets series

I would like to recall one fine, chilly evening in October of 2006, but this time from an opponents viewpoint.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Apr 21, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Annnnd...

from our side!

(still my favorite post in VEB history.)

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Apr 21, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

from lboros' article:

“new york hadn’t lost a single game all season which they led after 6 innings, a rather incredible performance; the one such lead they did blow cost them the pennant. "

I had no idea the Mets bullpen was that good in 2006. That makes their late-season bullpen-induced collapses in 2007 and 2008 all the more fascinating…

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nah, the '06 world series

of course, i don’t exactly remember the ’82 series

by BirdsonFire on Apr 21, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The World Series was good

But the amount of tension I felt in game 7 was unbearable. Wainwright’s curve never gets old just like Pujol’s home run off Lidge won’t either.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best baseball game I have ever seen

only way it would have been better is if it was at Busch.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Apr 21, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes and No

In a quite an evil way if feels amazing to hear the dead silence of defeat.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the pretty girl in the mets hat, crying

good times.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Apr 21, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was watching it at a Cubs bar

Immensely satisfying watching them shuffle their feet until the “Let’s Go Tigers” chant was taken up.

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I truely hope the Cubs never win the World Series

Cause than the rest of my life will be spent hearing about it

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2004 NLCS was pretty damn good, too

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I loved that article

Memories came flooding back

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 21, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I liked this. makes me wish i was reading getupbaby back then.
how dan at getup baby describes molina’s reaction after the homer: “He grinned like Charlie Brown after sex.”

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 21, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking around for the 25-man roster prediction post

Who was the innovator who championed a 13-man bullpen?

by liam on Apr 21, 2009 8:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Game thread?

Paging Dr. Baby…

I've got one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train
I'm going back to New Orleans, to wear that ball and chain

by jd is legend on Apr 21, 2009 8:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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