Game 12 Overflow II
by azruavatar on Apr 17, 2009 4:28 PM EDT
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PrintWhile it would be a mistake to rely on our offense like this all year, it's encouraging to see and fun to watch. That said, our pitching looks thin despite a respectable outing for Walters.
Things are getting dicey for Boggs. . .
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Reyes getting loose
with not a LHB in sight.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions
GD suggests he was getting squeezed badly in that last AB.
I still can’t see footage. Confirm?
get the out, keep the lead
tack on some runs
Does anyone else find Ali Larter talking on the side advertisement creepy?
Although I am happy to see Stringer Bell in something else besides The Wire.
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions
She is rather hot.
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Stringer is one of my fav. characters ever
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
Yeah, I'm a big Stringer fan
He’s up there with McNulty and Freamon and Omar for me.
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you imagine if Boggs has finally figured
it out with his breaking stuff?
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
he has the stuff to be a solid 4
If he could get it figured out
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 17, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder where the 96 went when he was starting
I figured in relief he’d be 94-97
Not afraid to nitpick
When was he hitting 96?
I haven’t seen him in person for a couple of years, but it was 92-93 when I did.
by StanTheManFan on Apr 17, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that I've seen him throw that hard
but he might have been holding back to go more innings.
Hold on boys!!!
Its gonna get hairy
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
Now he'll be even more due when we bat around.
by Andyfantastic on Apr 17, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I keep checking it
they keep telling me
an error was detected while processing this directive.
I thought that was you keeping others away
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
guess we break even
hated the old one
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The new one has some display problems on my screen.
Don’t know whether it’s local to my comp.
by StanTheManFan on Apr 17, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Displaying my complete ignorance
What is BR? I tried to think of a website with those initials, but couldn’t find one.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Apr 18, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, thanks
I have it in my bookmarks, but rarely go there
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Apr 18, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
how can that be?
a baseball fan that isn’t nuts over baseball-reference?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Arrested Development
Not the group! No excuse except that I have been working too much the last 35 years in places with no movies, internet or even electricity, let alone access to baseball scores (prior to internet) so I am still trying to catch up to that somewhat scary (for older folk) place called cyberspace. I have known about BR, but have not yet gotten into the depth of analysis that is routinely displayed here. I have read one or two Bill James articles, but obviously have a lot of homework and catching up to do. By the way, the time zone difference is inconvenient, as are afternoon games in Chicago. When I got up this morning, the game was over and all I could do was read the threads and die slowly. Tomorrow, I will get up as the rooster crows at 0425 and hopefully the fitfull internet here will allow me to watch gameday, listen to Mike, and possibly comment. On that score though (should have posted this on DanUpBaby`s free chat the other day), the VEB magnifying glass is somewhat harsh at times. From my mountain vista, all is well with the Cardinals universe. We are in 1st! Yes there will be adversity, but hopefully contained, and with a pen that contains more often than not. Overt optimism. Maybe, but as a Cards fan for 50 years, I have seen worse! Sorry for a long post.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Apr 18, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
let's go dick
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
Not sure I'd burn Hobbs for this AB.
Could Boggs have gone another inning? It’s a low-leverage situation — 2 out and none on.
Can you explain the nickname Hobbs for me?
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's one that i've never seen. and i've seen a lot of movies
just haven’t gotten to that one yet.
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Ank is coming around
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
he had a rope yesterday for the double
almost gone really
Ha ha!
Shannon just said the Redbirds “plummeted” Zambrano.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
not as crazy as i thought it would be
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
Until Boog comes up in Dunc's spot
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
Jesus
That’s the first it occurred to me Khalil wasn’t playing.
by Andyfantastic on Apr 17, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Man that's like 3 errors for Pujols
this month, isn’t it?
yes
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Albert's had a few errors this year
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions
He always has SOME errors.
It’s the flip side of having exceptional range at a position. But it doesn’t explain that one. Fortunately, all’s well (in that at bat) that ends well.
by StanTheManFan on Apr 17, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The Ball...
…was off the heel of his hand.
The glove (new or not) didn’t have anything to do with it.
YP way to go picking up Mang
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
I think
Id at this point in the season, id rather have pujols make an error, than dive for the ball and risk hurting himself.
I've always thought Miles
had one of the most impeccable baseball goatees i’ve ever seen.
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions
Shannon is classic
talking about Cubs managers needing a padded room because they’ll go crazy
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
+1
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 17, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
shhhh...positive thoughts
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
shit
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
well that sucks
if you can’t trust a southern lawyer cooking a kosher meal in a dumpster,
well, then, the world has grown far too cynical
by RosevilleRedbird on Apr 17, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions
Fuentes
Or any other EXPERIENCED reliever…..
Oh, where are you. Another season, another season with the same weakness.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
get outta here w/ that shit
Experience had nothing to do w/ that
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
Perez threw it below the knees
Soriano golfed it. What, Fuentes would never throw something below the knees?
He would have veterened it past him
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Apr 17, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yay for Perez become a headcase...
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
Well, Ol' Abner's right on duty for the top of the ninth,
and he better go out there and beat the holy living shit out of Gregg or Marmol or whoever’s going to try to close it.
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 17, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions
WOW. That soooo sucked.
"I'd I hope St. Louis feels good that they matched the offer sheet."--David Backes
If you can't groove a fastball....
To Miles when you need to…..you shouldn’t be pitching in the majors. Period. No excuse for that kind of “wildness”.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
if only he had more experience, huh
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
i was just joking...
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
I'll post where and when I want to. I said nothing wrong.
And I’ve been saying this same thing since last year. Not a knee-jerk reaction.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
very repetitively, too, i might add
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
Let him be
He still thinks letting Miller face righthanded batters was a good idea.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not saying you can't
I just find it amusing that you always say " I don’t post in game threads" If you are going to be all piss and vinegar, you have to expect to get called on it**
doesn’t know if that is the correct use of piss and vinegar, but it works for me!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
can't argue with that one.
walking miles was inexcusable.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
well at least pujols and ludwick up next...
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions
#5 needs to step up
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby
Our bullpen was not even remotely fixed this offseason
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
Fuentes was not the answer though.
Please do not think i’m even remotely agreeing with you
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
by dcfcblues on Apr 17, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And if you could read.....
I said Fuentes OR an experienced reliever.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
Was it Hoffman? Or maybe Izzy?
Rodriguez and Fuentes told us to get lost. Putz got traded for more than we could offer. Who exactly do you think we missed out on? Or, is this just one of those “we need it so there must be one out there” arguments?
here's to hoping for a three homer day for ludwick...
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
Ok...NO ONE PREDICT A COLBY HR
its proven to NOT work
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
Not to worry, Brendan Ryan will hit cleanup in this inning!
Everything will be fine.
by notmorganfreeman on Apr 17, 2009 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
God, i hate carlos marmol
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:55 PM EDT reply actions
I hate having to watch the Cubs broadcast
what stupid nicknames they have… Fonsie. Big Z. Ugh.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby
you know...
i predicted a run per frame pitched by our bullpen and i was off…
its more than that..
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
Mountains
I was just trekking in the Everest area, and I can attest to the fact that Mt. Soriano above is much higher and steeper than Everest, unfortunately.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Apr 18, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Do not swing at anything Marmol throws
until he proves he can throw strikes
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
He listened!
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby
I'm warming up to this Rasmus kid
what with the drawing of walks and such.
It's on the big shoulders now.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
Or the elbow.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
good start
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions
Keep taking til you get a good one
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
Ludwick will strike out
/reverse jinx
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
OH CRAP
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971
go cards.
Well... that was...
Unnecessary
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby
AND HE HIT PUJOLS
GET A VET OUT THERE! MOYER WOULDN’T HAVE DONE THAT!
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Apr 17, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and he plunks the Mang
"I'd I hope St. Louis feels good that they matched the offer sheet."--David Backes
uhoh
"Statistics mean nothing to the individual"
"You are what you eat and you clearly went out and devoured a big fat guy"
Fucking DRILL the Shit outta one of their guys
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
ordinarily I'd agree
but there’s no way in the world that was intentional…
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
No intentional walk there!
It would have taken too long
by Toledo_STL_fanatic on Apr 17, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions
nice
"Statistics mean nothing to the individual"
"You are what you eat and you clearly went out and devoured a big fat guy"
broke my elbow once
on one of those
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I've been hit just above the elbow
on two separate occasions, not fun. they were fastballs too
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
that's ok luddy
you already did all you could do
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions
thats was off the plate
"Statistics mean nothing to the individual"
"You are what you eat and you clearly went out and devoured a big fat guy"
fuck
well i suppose we can’t blame ludwick…he’s done his part for this team today.
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions
It's times like this you wish Duncan was at least serviceable in LF.
That way we would still have him in there now.
marmol hadnt thrown a strike and ludwick swings a 3 in a row
i dont care if the guy has hit 10 hr you wait for first strike
they were strikes, though
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
There's a reason they say good pitching beats good hitting.
Dude threw strikes, and Luddy didn’t catch up to them. Why do you think people are so excited about Motte’s velocity?
crap
"Statistics mean nothing to the individual"
"You are what you eat and you clearly went out and devoured a big fat guy"
MOTHERFUCKER
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
OH COME ON
ugh
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
by sirensofsilence on Apr 17, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions
Way to go, YP.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Musial
Oh, THATS why I despise the Cubs
I almost forgot
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
Oh
poop
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby
STUPID FUCKING SONG
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
OMG
This is the lamest victory song I have ever heard
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."- Rogers Hornsby
worst. song. ever.
super, super lame. I’d hate it even if I was a cubs fan
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If lame had an audio track,
that song would be on it.
by cardsgirl95 on Apr 17, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well, i went into the game expecting a loss
it just sucks that it was so close and that we blew the lead
Life's a river, kid, you gotta go where it takes you.
by KerouacCardinal on Apr 17, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions
God I hate this song
"I'd I hope St. Louis feels good that they matched the offer sheet."--David Backes
Someone has to kick the puppies
now that Wonderbrad is in Memphis.
Every lost but 1 this season
has been the bullpen blowing a lead, aka the worst kind.
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
5 runs allowed by our bullpen
I blame tony for leaving miller in there
Tony's response to leaving miller in there
“I felt Miller was better suited against aramis”
I just think about that scene in Basketball when I think about our bullpen blowing another game
when they are interviewing Trey Parker, and he is talking about it being a team lose and that we all sucked equally.
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 17, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I blame
the GUYS in our bullpen that have no idea how to execute their pitches. holy crap, 5 runs? on 4 innings pitched? and its not like this is the first time they’ve sucked… AHHH makes me remember ´08 bullshitpen
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
wasn't a great move
but we are sort of handicapped right now, with our schedule and the carp injury
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
If the pattern holds up we should be alright.. After a tough loss so far this season the Cards have won. So good vibes for tomorrow.
by DisplacedCardsFan on Apr 17, 2009 5:02 PM EDT reply actions
makes you wonder
what if TLR hadn’t done 12 fielding substitutions. Heh.
Well, other than Marmol
so is the Cubs pen
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
no he wont
Marmol has a better fastball and a MUCH better Slider
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
Motte has the better fastball hands down
but Marmol has the better breaking pitch and Motte hasn’t been able to locate his pitches this season yet.
What makes Motte's fastball better than Marmols?
They are roughly the same speed now that Motte doesn’t hit higher than 96, and Marmols has much more movement.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
Are we comparing the 50 fastballs that motte has thrown this season
or the 500 before that to Marmol’s fastball? If Motte has permanently lost velocity on his fastball, I’ll cede the point. I don’t think that’s the case and I don’t think that should be the default assumption.
Our bullpen
is an epic fail…
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
management is the fail
miller out there to face a rhb that is not a pitcher is in inexcusable.
by erik on Apr 17, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 17, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
WRONG.....
Miller isn’t the LOOGY, Reyes is.
Miller is going to have to face the occassional righties this year, especially when our pen is overworked. It was obvious that TLR didn’t want to bring Boggs into the middle of an inning, and why should he, Boggs is a starter. You try to put guys in a position to succeed, not fail.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
They are both LOOGYs
when has Miller ever succeeded against RHBs?
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
No no, see
he doesn’t have the nameplate on his bullpen seat. Just because he’s only gotten 3 RHB out in his entire life shouldn’t be important. We have very set roles on this team that we adhere very stringently.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
anybody have TLR's
email address? If so, please feel free to forward this along.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
WRONG yourself
they both are loogys. there is no designated loogy rule that there can only by one guy on your team that isn’t worth a crud verse rhb
ah
i’m sorry. just a little frustrated. it is however important to have some numbers to back your claims.
You can't have TWO true LOOGY's on your roster.....
It is impossible. Seriously, TWO guys that can do nothing but face righties? Can’t happen. Heck, even Reyes is going to face righties this year.
Bullpen wasn’t in a great situation today with K-Mac being unusuable, and Motte being Motte. You don’t through Boggs into that situation. Perez was needed later, and Franklin for the 9th.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
good argument
that makes perfect sense the way you illustrated that. and nice stats to back that up, pal.
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
RHB vs Miller
has a statline that would get them in the HOF.
You can have 2 LOOGYs when you carry 13 pitchers, 1 of which is being sent back down very very soon.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
We aren't carrying 13 pitchers.....
Try again.
Motte was the ONLY option to bring in when the righties came up, assuming you were going to use some combination of Franklin, Perez, and Reyes in the 8th and 9th, and that you don’t want to bring Boggs into the middle of an inning.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
You would rather have a guy who gets DESTROYED by RHB
face 3 of their best RHB than have a 2nd year pitcher come in and finish off the inning?
Stubborn.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, in some ways I would.
We also don’t know if Franklin might not have been available, and that Motte was going to close. WE DON"T KNOW.
So how about we let one of the top managers in the history of the game do the job we pay him to do? He hasn’t forgotten how to manage games.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
I wish he would
do the job we pay him to do.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't have TWO true LOOGY's on your roster.....
and yet… we do.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
I don't think it's getting through
they are both, by definition, LOOGYs. Yet, he is saying you can’t use both as such. Which is like trying to use a pool raft to get down the Amazon.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It's one thing to face the occasional righty.
It’s another to face the other team’s best righty hitter. And second best.
"You try to put guys in a position to succeed, not fail"
which is why having trevor miller pitch to Aramis Fricking Ramirez was a terrible decision.
- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc
sure didn't look like it
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
becaues that ball wasnt hit hard
and they turned it easy
he sure didn't run hard thru the bag
looked like he was jogging
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
I didnt think they would be able to double him up
but it didnt even end up being close
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 17, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm telling you
this guy is Juan E part 2.
He might get some slack from the fans though, being white and all.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
What?
Juan’s skin color had nothing to do with why he was disliked.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That's your opinion
but he was mostly disliked because he was replacing to beloved veterans in Reggie Sanders (who was black) and Larry Walker (who was Canadian).
Two HOVG guys getting replaced by a career underachiever prone to misplaying balls in LF and hitting into DPs.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I just think the tolerance level is higher
for a white underachiever, then a black one. There is sitll a lot of racism in the midwest, even if it’s subconscious.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
You can think that if you like
but 3 of the 4 most beloved players in team history are Ozzie Smith, Bob Gibson, and Albert Pujols (latino).
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I think (subtly)
Juan’s race played a part in his treatment. This is a very, very strange town when it comes to race.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
No, ...
Juan’s quiet demeanor, nonchalant style, and over-billing by the organization were his downfall.
But he was paid adequtly
for his performance and didn’t tank it at all — freaking JD Drew was treated better by the fans for most of his stay. There’s another dynamic in Juan’s treatment, in my opinion.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
I don't think anyone ever called Juan
‘Nancy’ from the bleachers.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really.
Drew was labeled as an injury-prone whiner. He was given some benefit of the doubt as he came up with us, so some of it was played off as inexperience. Encarnacion was a known commodity. I think he was overly criticized, as he put up basically the same numbers he always had. He just wasn’t a Cardinal, because Cardinals are defined by their work ethic. Drew didn’t have it, and neither did Encarnacion. Neither did Todd Zeile. Tino Martinez was run out of town, do you want to blame that on his latin heritage?
The front office also has a lot to do with it
We had come off two straight 100 win seasons, fallen just short of going back to the WS and they replaced to big bats with Juan. Frustration over not spending that money on a better player also was placed on Juan’s shoulders.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
That’s what I meant by over-billing by the organization. The fact that he was replacing Reggie Sanders and Larry Walker is what hurt him the most. Of course, those two guys didn’t bring us a World Series title, and Juan was on the team that did. That gets a little overlooked, as well.
Those are all great players
i’m talking about the tolerance level for underperformers. But this is a dumb argument, and I say we drop it.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
Jaun wasn't black.
He was Latin. Either way he was a lollygagger and an underachiever and that is why he was not liked. Greene will get his share of criticism if he keeps playing like this. I just think it will take more than 12 games before it gets to the Juan level.
Suprisingly clutch
According to WPA, he was our 3rd best hitter in 2007. He hit great when the game was on the line and much less so when it wasn’t. I still thought he was a frustrating outfielder to watch, but he did just fine. He was basically an unimpressive (not to be confused with bad) performer from an underwhelming offseason.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
Could that be because he was the only regular to stay healthy
outside of Pujols? Didn’t Edmonds, Rolen, Duncan and Eckstein all miss massive amounts of time in 2007 as well?
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Look him in the eye
And tell me that he didn’t miss significant time to injury.
He only played in 78 games that year, starting the season on the DL, rejoining the team on 5/14 against the Dodgers. All four of the guys you mentioned played at least 30 more games than Juan did.
Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.
That's an ignorant comment.
What color is Bob Gibson, Lou Brock, Ozzie Smith? What nationality is Edgar Renteria, Yadier Molina, Albert Pujols? I get really tired of people that seem to have their own hang-ups about race projecting that on to others. If you don’t like Juan Encarnacion or Khalil Greene, just say that. The only comparison is due to the laid back style of play. George Hendrick played laid back, as well; yet he was pretty well liked around here.
Keep the nonsense to a minimum, would you please?
It's not ignorant, it's the truth
but please, continue to attack me.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
He said your comment
was ignorant.
So, I guess we didn’t like JD Drew because he was black, right?
Classic underachiever.
Not worth arguing over. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
Your inability to understand your own prejudice here is exasperating.
The two players that you have compared here did not seem to hustle. The marginal players that you are talking about have to hustle, as they have lesser ability than others. Consequently, guys like Joe McEwing, Bo Hart, Stubby Clapp, Rex Hudler, et al are going to get recognition from fans because of their work ethic.
Contrary to popular belief, the midwest is mostly about yeoman-like work ethic, not ignorance and racism. The fact is, Barton has gotten a fair amount of fan-fare around here. Bernie Gilkey got a hell of a lot of recognition around St. Louis. Lonnie Smith got plenty of accolades. Your argument is poorly defended, and it primarily is due to your own personal biases against the people that live in St. Louis. There are as many ignorant people anywhere you live, and I’m tired of this area getting labeled that way through ignorance.
by etp_stl on Apr 17, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hell, people love Willie McGee like he was the greatest player
in the organizations history mostly because the guy would run through a wall if you asked him to.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
ludwick ruined that 9th inning
marmol hadnt throw a strike so that means ludwick should swing at balls
if it wasnt for ludwick
we woud have lost 8-4
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
they were strikes
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
i realize without ludwick we wouldnt have been in the same position
but its pretty much an unsaid rule in baseball when a guy cant throw strikes, you take until you get one. The first one he swung at looked like it would have been a bal
or it means the guy is due to throw a get me over FB
and you should sit on it.
Ludwick has earned the right to swing.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
fastball down the middle
that he swung at. Say you are right and Luddy did take it, each of the next 2 fastballs were strikes too. Taking or not didn’t change the outcome of the AB (I know, PA, but since he struck out, its an AB)
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Those were some hittable pitches he went after
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 17, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Every pitch he swung at was a fastball for a strike
I guess it would have been better if he had gone down looking.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
dude's gonna strike out sometimes
or a lot… that’s just who he is
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry.
You don’t blame the guy with two HRs on the day, nor the offense in general, when they put up 7 runs. This loss is hung on the pitching staff. I see some good things from these young pitchers, but there is a reason why they weren’t in the majors last year. They are still learning.
Walters has to learn how to settle down. Boggs needs to learn how to be consistent. Perez needs to learn how to be consistent. Even at AAA, Perez was issuing a walk per inning. That’s a problem. I think all of these guys have the stuff to get better once they learn how to finish at the big league level.
And Miller has to learn how to get RHB out!
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
At least 1 or 2 would be nice.
You have to expect that these lefties are going to have to get an occasional righty that is sandwiched between lefties out, don’t you? I still agree with you from earlier in that I don’t think Miller should have been brought in at that point of the game. If he was worried about burning through pitchers too fast, then he should have brought Boggs in to begin with.
I will agree on all of that but the Walters part
he did settle down. After that start of the game, he could have imploded. Instead he went into kick-ass mode.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
You are right.
I didn’t say that right about Walters, as I meant that he needs to settle his nerves before the game starts. He did show maturity beyond his experience by settling down after the first two innings. I think he will only get better from here, and I don’t think that it surprised anybody that the young kid wasn’t lights out in Wrigley Field for his first major league start.
Sometimes I wonder
if I would be happier just never watching the Cardinals. Of course, then I come to my senses and realize how many great memories I have. But really, I can’t handle these bullpen losses anymore…they stress me out to a point that is not healthy
they stress me out to the point
that i almost break my hand last time they blew a lead by punching the wall… today, i smashed it with my left hand, which is also quite damaged now… These bullpen losses make me wanna drink!
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
I'm not even upset with today's loss
which is odd. I think it’s partly because I realize how not elite the Cubs really are and how very winnable this division is, bad bullpen or not.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Walters was a huge positive
to come out of today with.
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
by bmorgan on Apr 17, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes definitely
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 17, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
and i'm not really upset either
completely the opposite from the dBacks game the other night… ludwickgate
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
seriously
we were starting Walters vs Big Z…
I had us penciled in for a L at 9 am this morning.
Side note:
The irony of seeing the stimulus for LaRussa’s psychoses just a few days after his psychoses cost us a game….
2 on, no out, all we really need is two sacrifices, and Ludwick (who’s been a stud all day, and this is meant as no disrespect to him) strikes out. I can just imagine Tony in the dugout muttering to himself “if only i had a utility infielder at the plate right now who could lay down a great bunt!”.
Second Side Note:
I was really happy to see Tony pull Walters after 4 today. Al and Dan were of course chirping about “stretching him to get a him win,” and I sometimes worry that Tony does BS like that, but today he made the right call.
by duncans_army on Apr 17, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
“I really thought Brendan had a better chance of laying down the sacrifice for Khalil”
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree that it was the wrong move...
… but K’s are killers in those spots, as we saw today.
i still would’ve used Luddy. hell, i would’ve started him. but whatever. this conversation was meant to be about the bullpen.
Actually, ...
Al and Dan brought up the topic, but definitely agreed that there is no way that you stretch him out right there. He had thrown 98 pitches. Al said that there was no way Tony was going to risk getting this kid hurt for the opportunity to get a win.
Agreed
I really didn’t expect a win and we put some good runs against Z and Walters held his own considering the lineup he was facing.
I agree
Our offense was on and we almost won with a rookie making his big league debut. It isn’t worth stressing about. And as Hardcore says, the Cubs aren’t looking all that elite right now. That may change but that is a worry for another day.
I asign you to keep track of that
it’s a good idea though
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
tony still thinks its the
late 80’s and early 90’s. Thinks anybody can get anybody out
none?
opening day: everybody wants motte to be the closer. motte is the closer. motte blows save. it’s TLR’s fault.
today: Walter can’t give more than 4. we have to use a lot of pitchers to stay in the game. we’re leading in the 8th, when Perez blows it. everybody on this bored wants Perez pitching in late innings, despite his susceptibility to BBs and HRs, and that’s what we got. it’s TLR’s fault that Perez can’t throw a strike to Miles. (before you even say it: no guarantee that Boggs gets A-Ram; he’s been killing the ball lately, and Boggs ain’t exactly Mariano Rivera.)
tues: carp goes down early. we have to use a lot of pitchers to stay in the game. we’re leading in the 8th, when Kinney blows it. we rally in the 9th and go to extra innings, so TLR put in the long man, which is standard practice in MLB. every other manager in baseball would’ve done the same thing.
i fail to see how any of these are TLR’s fault.
I don't fault him at all
for opening day. I do for Miller’s usage today, though.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
why?
when your pen has to pitch 5 innings, there are going to be bad match-ups somewhere. and Boggs has a .919 OPS against in his career. no guarantee at all that he gets A-Ram and Soto. A-Ram’s been killing everybody lately, he had hits off of 3 different pitchers today, and Boggs wasn’t exactly lights-out when he did come in.
no, it wasn’t a great match-up, but that’s going to happen when your bullpen is getting exposed as badly as it has this week.
and anyway, that’s mostly irrelevant: Miller didn’t cost us the lead. Perez did. Perez got the highest-leverage spot, and he blew it.
I wold have prefered Motte
face Rami. It was obvious Miller couldn’t get a RH batter out. Which isn’t his job to begin with.
He’s getting the Ron Villone treatment. Great LOOGY, terrible relief pitcher.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
They had Boggs warming up at that point
they should have brought him in to face Ramirez to minimize the platoon split.
i fault him for not using Ryan Luwick w/ the bases loaded
the other night against the D-Backs… And today I fault him for using Miller in that situation. Other than that, you’re right. No quibbles w/ opening day or using Perez
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
agree about Luddy...
… although it’s somewhat defensible: a K is really bad in that spot, and Luddy Ks nearly 1/3 of the time.
it's never defensible to choose Brendan Ryan
over Ryan Ludwick. Read Chuck’s post from the other day. That decision is actually completely indefensible.
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
I haven't reread Chuck's post,
but I’m pretty sure that his point was that it was slightly defensible if you assume that TLR was testing Brendan Ryan’s mettle, the better to know his value later in the season. Of course, now we (and hopefully TLR) all know that it was the wrong choice, and that Brendan Ryan should (all else being equal) never be chosen over Studwick.
by santiagofish on Apr 17, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
No
I think everyone knew it was the wrong choice as it happened. We didn’t need to see Brendan Ryan strike out to know it was a bad move. Ludwick is the 2nd best hitter on the team and a flyball hitter, he should be brought in in that situation every time.
Chuck wrote that as a theory for what TLR might have been thinking b/c there was no plausible reason for doing what he did. That doesn’t make the decision defensible. It’s still entirely inexplicable. I’m sure Chuck would say the same thing.
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
But, but.....
YP and Motte are ready. They’d be WAY better options than Izzy, or Springer, or some other proven vet.
rolleyes
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
What's Izzy doing now?
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
stitching on his arm
and punching things
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
in percentage?
.750 bullpen losses to total losses percentage. a new stat i call BL/TL%
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
Mistake of the game was Trevor Miller IMHO
by Walking Underwear on Apr 17, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions
Isn't it kind of sad
that our mistakes are comprised of entire players rather than single moments?
by augustdragon on Apr 17, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Miller
got the lefties out. He did his job. TLR forced him to face righties. The failure is TLR’s, not Miller’s. That’s the irritating part.
Classic underachiever.
That's what I meant. I should've been clearer
To me he is a LOOGY only. Reyes I would have limited trust in against righties but Miller? never
by Walking Underwear on Apr 17, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither of them should ever face righties
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
I would still leave Reyes in a gainst a non power righty sandwiched between lefties
But yeah, not chomping at the bit to see reyes vs righty either
by Walking Underwear on Apr 17, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i think that's a given at some point
but both are paid well b/c they get lefties out. their stats are good b/c they face lefties.
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
hopefully TLR is still just doing research
to figure out how he wants to use the bullpen… but he coulda done that in the offseason
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
you had the lead and momentum
then you threw it all away. Of course I am not taking all the blame off of Perez. he shouldn’t have walked Miles, and Fonzies HR? How does he continue to hit those pitches? Wasn’t that one about two inches off the plate?
/hyperbole
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Any word on Pujols?
Has the broadcast or radio talked about the HBP near his elbow? I am worried he may be injured.
the ball was hurt
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Apr 17, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
did anyone see it on TV?
was it a glancing HBP or a square-on hard hit?
got him pretty good
but he seemed fine after taking a second for himself.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
steel is stronger than horsehide and string
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'M NOT A MANCHING
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
that's where I always got hit
it’s kind of like a funny bone thing, it hurts really bad and it feels really weird, but not like getting hit on the elbow
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
it looked like it hit his side then elbow
but I might be wrong, I am slightly drunk
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i envy you
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
I will drink one for you too
I am just that nice of a guy.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i appreciate it
i have to study for finals
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
On WGN
It looked like it got him square about two inches above the funny bone. Like it got the meat of his triceps
by Walking Underwear on Apr 17, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
so
we almost won that one, and I thought we were going to lose
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 17, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions
That would be nice
But I’d rather get a Bullpen
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 17, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Great game today.
Go have some dinner and drinks and get ’em tomorrow.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
I understand why people are upset, but freaking out to this level?
Sure we lost to the cubs… sure it sucks to lose to them, but we also beat them yesterday… this is the 3rd game in a row that you took it to zambrano… I think that we can win this division! The cubs really don’t impress me this year the way that they did last year
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 17, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions
call me the hopeless eternal optimist
but I kinda expect them to win at least one game a series against us like this
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 17, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I am more irritated at the personal attacks between us,
People were really being douchey to each other earlier.
"I remember once talking to one guy on the Cardinals and asking him what Pujols was like as a teammate. He said something that’s really special, if you think about it. He said: "Albert is so good that you feel like you let him down when you screw up." I thought that had to be the ultimate line that could ever be said about a ballplayer. I build my baseball team around that ballplayer."
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 17, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
agree
i’ve enjoyed this site since the offseason but was hoping for a little more camaraderie in the game threads. could just be that 3 of our 4 losses have been in somewhat spectacular fashion.
except we don't act
this is more like the backyard attempt at pro wrestling where children end up crippled.
today was actually pretty tame compared to some i've been a part of in the past
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
Game time is emotional.
Most game thread comments are significantly less thought out, and typically would be rescinded if the poster had really thought about it. When we lose, people are going to lash out. When we win, people are going to claim the NL is our’s to lose. It’s just the way it is.
It is still Ours!
giving other teams hope is all this game was about!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
People are freaking out
because this season is becoming an extension of 2008. We are having the exact same problems. Starters not going deep enough in games, an abysmal bullpen, and an injured Carpenter.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
Ah, but no MIF'ers have started
in the OF. THAT is an improvement!
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but the season is 12 games old
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 17, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
there was no catharsis from 08
Just a slow-motion collapse.
I am hoping the community gets it out of the system before we start resembling certain Cubs blogs because that is not what I want to see every. single. time I enter a game thread. Please.
There were a lot of positives today, and I for one am really looking forward to how those will play out this summer.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I LOVE EVERYBODY
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
I'll 1up you and bareback everyone.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Sides of a line
Funny | Disturbing
| rockstark5
by azruavatar on Apr 18, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Hey everyone....
We’re in first place!
Why don't we get glausy eyed and put back some franklin's....
by punksoulbrutha on Apr 17, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I like to look at it this way....
The cubs appear to me to be built like the cardinals of late. Built to win now, but with a narrow window (maybe narrower than ours). We have a young exciting team with hungry young players that are fun to watch. I enjoy watching these guys cause, generally, they play well enough for us to win. I would rather watch guys like perez and motte mature than guys like izzy hang on by their fingernails…
The cubs are going to be stuck with some nasty contracts for a long time, and when they are we should be sitting pretty!
SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 17, 2009 5:32 PM EDT reply actions
We are scoring a ton of runs still
and we are missing our 3rd best homerun hitter. Amazing.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:33 PM EDT reply actions
Another positive
is that Ank seems to be hinting at possibly starting to begin to emerge from his post-spring-training slump.
Nice work Rotoworld guy
Ryan Ludwick WAS briefly tied with Soriano and Pujols, until he blasted past both of them to get his 5th. Soriano then caught up.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions
Reyes and Miller
both carry .800+ OPS for their careers vs RHP.
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, the freaking insanity!
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions
so?
Mitch Boggs has an .919 OPS against in his career (before today).
let’s face it: when your starter only goes 4, there are going to be some pretty bad match-ups later in the game.
Is this a real reply?
Boggs has a .919 OPS in 138 MLB ABs
vs RHB, it drops to .736 in 60 ABs.
In Memphis last year, it’s not even close.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Can someone explain to me
What makes this Cubs team a clear cut division winner, like was predicted?
I see the following
1. A terrible bullpen. Ours is bad, their bullpen is equally bad though.
2. A mediocre offense. Other than Soriano and Ramirez, who in that lineup should we be afraid of?
3. An above average but injury prone starting rotation.
How the hell were these clowns predicted to win 100 games this year????
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
here's why...
… they are above average at every position with exceptional 3B, C, LF, and RF.
they have the best rotation in baseball. sure, there are injury concerns, but which team doesn’t have that?
their team defense is superb.
they have an above average pen, with maybe the most dominant reliever in the NL right now.
and they have enough money to buy whatever piece they need mid-season.
two weeks does not a season make, and the Cubs are very, very good.
Hahahahah are you serious?
Fontenot is above average?
Theriot is above average?
Fukudome is above average?
Milton Bradley is exceptional?
Geovany Soto is exceptional?
They have an above average pen?
They have the best rotation in baseball?
This isn’t Bleed Cubbie Blue, I think you’re on the wrong blog.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
by the way...
… no offense, but i’ve been at this site much, much, much longer than you (since the 2004-2005 off-season). so don’t tell me which goddamn blog i’m on.
I've been here just as long as you
I lost my original account when I took about a year and a half hiatus.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
I liked it better when we had user numbers
and you could tell who was senior.
I think TOLAXOR might have somehow joined before lboros.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Apr 17, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to disagree on the defense.
Lee and Ramirez are above average. Fukodome could probably be labeled that way, and Soto was pretty good. Soriano is definitely NOT a plus defender. I don’t see calling Hoffpauir, or anything they have at MIF as above average defensively. You might prove me wrong on Theriot, but I don’t think he’s anything spectacular at SS. They have downgraded at 2B. I certainly don’t call them superb defensively.
The rest of your points are relatively valid, and the loss of Carpenter is going to make it very difficult for the Cardinals to contend over the season. They clearly are not willing to spend any money to compensate for that loss.
hmm...
… Soriano has been well above average for the past 3 seasons, which is how much time he’s been in LF. Fukudome was above average last year (although the switch to CF might change that). Theriot has had ups and downs, but is basically average. Fontenot is one of the best 2B in baseball. Bradley is one of the best RF in baseball.
(i’m taking stats from fangraphs)
so here’s the checklist:
C – well above average
1B – above average
2B – well above average
SS – average
3B – above average
LF – well above average
CF – TBD, but above average last season in RF
RF – well above average
i’d say that’s a pretty good defense. potentially every position is above average, and they have Johnson and Gathwright as late-inning defensive subs if they need them.
How are we judging Soriano?
From the time that I’ve watched him, I can’t call that well above average. He takes circuitous routes to the ball, drops balls, and doesn’t particularly play the ball off the wall all that well. He doesn’t exactly have a great arm. He gets to a lot of balls because of his speed, so that compensates for some of his mistakes.
Fontenot doesn’t have sole grasp on 2B, and there is little chance of Milton Bradley manning the majority of time in RF. Then again, it would seem as though fangraphs is underestimating DLee and Ramirez.
oh, i was using the metrics on fangraphs...
… and they are all positive for the past three years. 2007 was his best year, but the year before that was his first in the OF and last year he was hurt. even still, he was above average.
his range ratings are actually pretty decent, and his arm is a huge plus; he gets a lot of OF assists, which boost his value a lot.
remember: his competition in LF are guys like Duncan, Ibanez, Dunn, Manny, Braun. it’s not that hard to be at or above average in LF. his athleticism and arm alone should get him there.
Good point.
I wasn’t really measuring compared to other LFs, I guess. Since that is historically a weak defensive position, I don’t like to judge the player’s capability based on that. I compare OFs to OFs, but I can see the point you are making. I don’t see calling his defense superb, but I can see calling it above average compared to other LFs. That makes sense. I am evidently wrong about his arm, but I was thinking his accuracy was not particularly good. I’m always concerned about an OF that has too many assists, as it may mean that other teams don’t respect his arm strength or accuracy.
As I said, I think his range is definitely above average. I think it makes up for the fact that he doesn’t read the ball off the bat all that well.
If you guys need a pick me up
I recommend you read this over at our Blues Brethren at St.Louis Game Time
It is good for a few laughs
Stat Whore
I lost some beer on the screen reading that
so that is what socks are for?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
it read like Red Baron wrote it
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 17, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
Theriot: worth 3.1 wins last year, or $14mn, at a premium position.
Fontenot: worth 3.1 wins last year, or $14mn, at a low-offense position.
Bradley: worth 4.5 wins last year, or $20mn, and led the AL in OPS.
Fukudome: worth 1.8 wins last year (roughly the same as Ankiel), but is at a premium position this year and will almost certainly have a better offensive year. yes, he’s in the top half of NL CF this year, and he may be one of the two or three best.
Soto: worth 4.6 wins last year (in his rookie season) at a premium position, or $21mn.
pen: i guess we’ll have to see, but in the past Gregg, Marmol, Cotts, and Heilman have all been above-average, and some of those have been dominant at times. Guzman could be a big plus, and they have Samardizjkhzxjlhsdf waiting for the call. they paid Chad Gaudin $2mn to go away.
rotation: name a better one. the only contenders are BoSox and Rays, in my mind. in any case, certainly the best rotation in the NL, and i don’t think there’s even an argument here.
i should add...
… if those 5 players replicate their performances from last year and the rest of the team is replacement level, then the Cubs are nearly an 80 win team. that’s WITHOUT including the contributions of Harden, Zambrano, Marmol, Ramirez, Lee, Lilly, Demptster, Soriano, Gregg, or anybody else.
think about that for a second. you think the rest of the team is worth 15-20 wins? i sure do.
If Harden is healthy, I agree
If not, outside of Zambrano, nobody scares me. I think their pretty similar to the Cards actually, with Carp being out Dick Harden.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
maybe not scary...
… but their 3-5 (Dempster, Lilly, Marshall) is probably the best 3-5 in the league. they have no black holes. no Pinieros. and relatively few injury risks: just Harden, and he pitched 150 innings last year.
3 of our 5 were on the DL last year.
plus, they have some depth in the minors.
The Cubs don't have much depth
in the minors. May a little in the pitching realm but otherwise, the cupboard is bare.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you and I hold Forgetting Sean Marshall
in different lights. I have no problem seeing he and Pinerio having similar stats at the end of the year. Both are fine #5 starters, though.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
i like Marshall quite a bit...
… ERA+ of 119 and 116 the past two years, just 26 this year, left-handed. as a 5th starter, he’s miles ahead of Piniero.
Marshall would be our 3rd best starter, and he’s got a lot of room to improve. and if he falters, they’ve got other options.
Do they have other options?
Whom?
I, too, think he’ll be fine, but other than the fact that he’s a junk balling lefty, I don’t dread facing him.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
Ankiel for Jonathan Sanchez please...
Can this happen already.? The Giants are running out Winn, Lewis, and Rowand every day.
So far they’ve scored 1,1,2,2,3,3,4,7, and 10 runs.
And what’s up with the official warnings? This place isn’t going to go all Animal Farm on me is it?
Speaking of teams playing badly
how long before the Brewers fire Ned Yost again, just because?
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would love to make that trade
If Duncan keeps mashing, it would probably take him though.
Haven’t you heard? the Giants are looking for a LH 1B!
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
It's crazy how good Gil Meche has been since he got to KC
Not that he’s Cy Young caliber or anything, but how many people outside of KC thought that 2+ years into his 5 year/$55 million deal it would look like a pretty good contract?
They’ve got a pretty damn solid rotation there in KC. If we could just kidnap Meche, Greinke, and Davies (they can keep Ponson), and maybe while we’re there kidnap Soria and Cruz from their bullpen too (they can keep Farnsworth), with our lineup we’d have a killer team.
That’s a realistic plan for building a team, right?
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 17, 2009 9:52 PM EDT reply actions
I'm not a lawyer,
but I say yes. Yes it is. But only for the Cards.
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 17, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
That's actually how the Pirates got their name.
I read a pretty good book about the history of St. Louis baseball. It made the point that the team in Pittsburgh got nicknamed the Pirates because they kept poaching players off of other teams’ rosters. I thought that was pretty funny.
Larry was very right
in saying Meche was a good value signing. I wish we could have gotten him, in hindsight.
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, did he really say that?
I totally blanked that out. Why the @#$$*^ isn’t he our GM?
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 17, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
do you really want Moore
for every Meche, you have to deal with Farnsworth signings, and the inexplicable reasoning behind keeping Tony Pena, Jr on the roster.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
well that makes sense now
I second that motion
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Apr 18, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
After watching the Nats
blow the game in the ninth, I can see why they have only won one game.
Vin Scully is in rare form tonight in case anyone wants a pick me up
man i hope he never quits
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ugh
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 17, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
you don't like Vin?
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I think that he is boring
I know that a lot of people that he is one of the best announcers ever, but I just don’t see it.
St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008
by vivaelpujols on Apr 18, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
he sounds like an automated machine to me
something off a computer game
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
who or what was Soriano pointing at as he rounded 1st when he hit his HR?
just saw the highlight & he was, what i would call, vigorously waving or pointing in the direction of the Cards dugout or the stands. didn’t see it mentioned here so i guess no one saw it.
It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
i definitely saw that
but i have no idea who/what he was pointing at and haven’t heard it mentioned by any “analysts”
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
I saw that gesturing by Soriano. Maybe he was ribbing Pujols like this,
“You see, you see!”
“Albert, I can hit a baseball… I can.”
This statement is null and void when the baseball is being delivered by Jelly Walters.*
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
if he pointed at the Cardinals dugout
you can rest assured he’ll get one in the ribs tomorrow.
MyBrute - Where tiny gladiators rule the internets
I didn't read the whole thread because it drives me nuts how long it takes after 600 comments and computer lag but,
P.J. from the few frames I saw on baseball tonight looked like he had some electric stuff. It may not be overpowering but man did the few pitches I saw move. They were mainly the 3 Ks of Soriano. It’s a shame Tony didn’t put Jelly in the OF till Soriano came up again later in the game . If he had he could have brought Jelly in to take care of Soriano one more time.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
No talk about Anthony Reyes' second start of the year?
Or did I miss it?
Seems to be having alot of the same issues he had back here in the STL. Might be a little early to say this definitively, but it appears that TLR/Dunc weren’t his issues.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
Ludwick and Miller
bernie has put it quite well in his column this morning.http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/F9592A5C43026E648625759C000B682E?OpenDocument
by Walking Underwear on Apr 18, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions
I am with him on the catching it two-handed
now Iam trying to decide if I wanna read the rest of that column
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Apr 18, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
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