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2010 Cardinals

I am watching the Cardinals game, and got to wondering.....How good could the Cardinals be in 2010? I mean, Rasmus is going to have a year under his belt, Wallace if he mashes this year will be most certainly up next year and as well as our other guys. I just wanna complete an outline of what our team could look like next year. Feel free to add/subtract anyone. Also, im not too sure about the 2010 free agent class so if you think the cardinals will go out and get somebody plug him in there. I will just do a lineup/rotation/bullpen

 

1. Skip Schumaker-2B

2. Colby Rasmus- CF

3. Albert Pujols-1B

4. Ryan Ludwick-RF

5. Put Free agent power hitting LF bat here-LF

6. Brett Wallace-3B/LF(Still too early to know if he will handle 3B so thats why I put the LF in there, but I would love to let Ankiel go ,and sign a big LF bat to put in the 5th spot and have Wallace bat 6th)

7. Kahil Greene-SS(I like his defense and has a pretty decent/good bat)

8. Yadier Molina-C

9. P

 

Rotation:

1. Chris Carpenter(I know im going to get comments like, "Yeah right!" and "The guy wont be healthy" but I am going to put the best possible scenario

2. Adam Wainwright

3. Put a good/really good FA starting pitcher here

4. Kyle Lohse

5. Todd Wellmeyer

 

Bullpen:

LR-Dennys Reyes

LR-Garcia/Miller/Whoever else

RP-Kyle Mccelland

RP-Jason Motte

RP-Ryan Franklin

RP-Josh Kinney

RP-Chris Perez

CL-??????????? Let me hear what you got as far as free agents, or if you want Perez/Motte closing, ect.

 

Well that is just a 10 minute thought of what could be for next year, so I probably missed a lot of key players/thoughts. It looks like some main players to me not returning next year are:

Ankiel(I wouldnt overpay, let somebody else)

Glaus(He was a good fill in for Freese/Wallace to come up for that 2 years)

Pinero(Im not sure if he is a FA after this year but I would try and trade him/DFA. Im not a big fan.)

I wanna hear what your guy's thoughts are. Also, if anyone has any information on our FA, Payroll for next year, ect that would help out to see how much cap room we have for next year and to see who is a FA next year as well, thanks.

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yeah...

… Ank might be gone, but Dunc is still here, as is Mather, Barton, Jay, etc. we’re not signing a LF, even though Holliday, Manny, Crawford, and Bay are out there.

there aren’t many SS FA options, so if Khalilbot performs, it might be worth keeping him. other options include Cabrera, Crosby, Tejada… and that’s about all.

if the Skip experiment fails, then we’ll have 2B options: Iwamura, O-Dog, Polanco, Sanchez, Belliard, Eckstein.

Piniero will be gone, and Welly likely will be as well. so pencil in one spot for Garcia/Boggs/whoever, and perhaps one FA spot. there are some intriguing names out there: Hudson, Harden, Sheets, Duchscherer, Bedard, Myers, Penny, Schmidt, Smoltz. some injury concerns, but all of those guys have top of the rotation potential, and one or two will come at a bargain.

there are some good late-inning relievers as FAs (e.g. Gonzalez, Putz, Valverde, Soriano, Wagner), but i think we’re set there. keep the kids, keep the LOOGYs, and spend the money other places.

if we can bump payroll north of $100mn again, then we can get some great pieces this off-season. even if we have to hold the line, we’ll have some flexibility from losing Glaus, Piniero, Welly, and Ank.

by kindred on Apr 15, 2009 8:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wellemeyer

The Cards will probably keep him unless he pitches out of their price range. Still leaves one open spot in the rotation. I personally they should get a free agent lefty starter like Bedard, Wolf, or Davis. The team should have money to spend because they cut back so much this year. Getting rid of Glaus will help also.

by ultimatecardinalfan on Apr 15, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welly is a FA...

… i’m pretty sure they cut him loose.

by kindred on Apr 15, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

$4.5MM he will make this year is probably a bit much

On the FA market, someone will probably give him over $5MM a year. Keep in mind that this is his Age 30 season. He wouldn’t be worth bringing back for anything other than a one-year deal worth less than $5MM, in my opinion.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Apr 16, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

$5M

You are kidding right? If he repeats last years performance he will earn $10M a year easy of the FA market.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Apr 17, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is no way I would pay Todd Wellemeyer $10M/year.

If someone else will, then godspeed, Colonel. Take it while you can get it.

by etp_stl on Apr 17, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't either

But if he repeats the performance he had last year, then he’ll have consecutive seasons in which he’s outpaced Kyle Lohse’s best season, and we gave Lohse 4Y$41M last fall.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 18, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

it’s a totally different market than when Kyle signed his deal.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Apr 19, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We really don't know that yet

I think that attendance figures are going to be based on people’s perception of the economy and whether or not it’s going to hit bottom and begin to turn around soon. We could be looking at a very similar market to two years ago in the ‘09-’10 offseason, simply because teams didn’t spend any money in ‘08-’09, so they have some extra cash to burn.

FWIW, it’s a fair point to note that a lot of GM’s are going to be watching how Oakland’s SOK (Staff of Kiddos) turns out this year. Beane’s made a run at a lot of veteran everyday talent this offseason, which makes me think that he thinks his pitching staff is good enough to win him that division, even though it’s the most unproven, but not worst, in the division.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 20, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mostly agree

My man crush aside, ank too expensive, and plenty of fill in options, so no need for a FA LF. I’m counting on skip, although I think he is into arb and might cost a little more. Speaking of expensive arbitration if Ludwick dominates again he won’t exactly be cheap and a solid year out of Duncan will probably mean a decent raise as well. Then there are raises for Carpenter, Lohse, Yadi, Waino, Franklin, and Reyes that total almost 6 mil. Those raises will probably eat up most if not all of Glaus’s expiring contract. If Garcia/Boggs/etc. can take Pinero’s spot, then that frees up their (jo-el and welly) 11mil for a FA starting pitcher (If 2 stick then that money gets freed up for elsewhere, however if none do then that money gets split in half looking for 2 pitchers.) Anderson can replace Larue at backup catcher. The bullpen can pretty much stay the same, with a fill in or 2 from the minors, and miller or someone like him for his spot. That leaves SS, If Greene plays well (decent defense w/ 2007 offensive numbers with a little better OBP) I have a feeling he will be looking for a big contract. If he doesn’t play that well, then we don’t want him. Not sure if there are any great FA SS available, but this is a place I wouldn’t mind spending money. Not sure if any teams would be willing but this might be a good place to dump a dozen prospects that we are not gonna be able to protect in the rule 5 this winter. What would be perfect would be if we could find a midyear salary dump of a player signed through 2010 in which the other team would pay part of the contract and want prospects in return (SS or SP). I suppose a lot could happen between now and then and hopefully they will be suffering from a Champaign hangover.

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Apr 15, 2009 9:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i don't see why we would get a FA LF.

we have duncan, jay, barton, mather, d. jones. any of those could easily be ready to play the outfield in 2010. we are bursting at the seams there.

I don’t see why we would bring franklin back to the bullpen; todd would easily be a comparable reliever. we might need to go outside the club for a second loogy. i would guess we would have a long man to go with the above bullpen: one of boggs/hawksworth/mortensen/thompson. one of the guys you listed, barring abject failure this year, should be our closer.

i would guess at least one of our starter positions will be filled internally. jaime garcia is probably our best candidate, followed by walters. if both of them work AND carp is healthy, we won’t need anybody else. I might as well ask for the moon and the stars. we will probably need to spend on a starting pitcher or trade for one this year.

SS is very perplexing. if k. greene doesn’t work out or if he works out so well he’s priced out of range, I have no idea what we do. the other free agent options are pretty unappetizing. barden would need to have a mega year to make himself more than a backup there, as would tyler greene.

i would not be surprised to see skip or thurston starting at 2b next year.

you didn’t discuss the bench, but i think we are pretty set there. we have good 4th and 5th outfielders. while barden and t. greene aren’t likely to start at SS, they have backup infielder written all over them. maybe we hold on to craig or freese to be a corner man backup. we could bump larue as the backup C and save a few pennies there.

all in all, we have a gaping need for at least one top-flight starting pitcher, a shortstop, and probably a loogy. the good news is we get to focus our money there, because our needs are well covered elsewhere.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 15, 2009 9:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

miller has an option..

… so if his arm doesn’t fall off he might still be here.

i agree about Franklin. we should be set with McClellan, Motte, & Perez in the late innings, in whatever order.

so yeah. one top-flight starter, one SS, and we’re pretty solid.

by kindred on Apr 15, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

player or team option? I missed that in the contractual brou-ha-ha.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 16, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pretty sure it's a team option...

… the deal was originally a 2-year deal, then they found the shoulder damage, so they restructured it to add incentives and an option.

at least, that’s how i remember it.

by kindred on Apr 16, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carp

IMO, the Cards should regard Carp as their #3 guy at most and get a really good, durable #1 guy. That way anything Carp does above #3 average is gravy, but you’re also taking his injury risk into account.

Counting on Carp as your #1 is folly IMO.

by thepainguy on Apr 15, 2009 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

is there such a thing?

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Apr 15, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two words:

Roy Halladay

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 15, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he would be

the ultimate cardinal if you think about it

by Jombari on Apr 15, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is correct

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Halladay

If you think that the Dewitt group is going to ok and add on of 20 million dollars per year over the next two, than you haven’t been paying attention.

Send Wallace or Jones or both plus a couple of pitching prospects for Matt Cain. Makes much more sense.

by CoolCat23 on Apr 18, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Execpt for the fact that Cain

who will be arbitration eligible soon, is due for a big payroll upgrade as well. And he is half of the pitcher that Halladay is (literally). If we were to send Wallace and Jones in a trade, than we wouldn’t get a pitcher like Cain, that we be a robbery.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 18, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where did I say that we should acquire Halladay.

ForesterShane simply asked if there was “such a thing” as a good, durable #1 guy. I was simply pointing out that Roy Halladay is a good example of that. I could have used Johan Santana too I guess.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 18, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You've got an optimistic outlook on things

Wellemeyer will probably be gone, as he’ll be a free agent in a light pitching market. If he has a year similar to last year he’s going to command $8-$10M per year. When you consider that the cream of next years crop of starters (Lackey, Harden, Bedard, Hudson, Webb, Schmidt) either do or have had injury concerns, an innings eater who could be better than average is going to get paid because he’ll have a lot of offers.

I don’t see the Cardinals signing a left fielder — Duncan would be in his second year of arbitration, so he’d still be relatively cheap if healthy and productive. You also have Jones, Jay, Craig, Mather, and Barton all competing for that spot in the spring next year. Come to think of it, with all the kids they have in the outfield, it would make a lot of sense for the Cards to trade Duncan in the offseason for young starting pitcher, assuming he’s healthy all of 2009 and OPS’s around .850 or better.

I hope Wallace sticks at 3B, but I’m not holding my breath. The problem is that if he doesn’t, I think the Cardinals would be best to package him with John Jay and Brian Anderson and try to get back a top flight starter or pitching prospect. If both of those guys have amazing years in AAA this year, I can see a team like the Giants willing to part with someone like Cain or Bumgarner to get back three players that they could plug in right away. Neither Wallace or Jay really have a future in this organization if Wallace can’t stick at third. We already have a great CF prospect, so Jay is redundant. All that said, I wouldn’t trade Daryl Jones at all right now — he might be the most underrated prospect in all of baseball.

You have to hope the Jaime Garcia comes back from surgery successfully to be a #4 starter and that one of Walters, Mortenson, or Boggs can be a #5 starter next year. If so the Cardinals should look to target a #1 or #2 starter to bolster the rotation (my personal favs are Sheets, Penny, and Bedard if they are all healthy). If you can bolster the rotation by trading an outfielder or three that wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.

Depending on how Kozma and Tyler Greene do this year, the team could possibly need a simple stopgap at SS, like Jack Wilson for a year at $5M or so (or maybe not if Greene can prove he can hit). If Kozma doesn’t look to be ready by 2011 or looks like a complete bust (and we really should know by the end of this year) and Greene’s bat doesn’t improve, the Cards are going to have to start looking for a long term replacement at SS by making a trade for someone like Jhonny Peralta, Asdrubal Cabrera, or a minor league SS who is blocked. I don’t think that Khalil is really an option: If he has a good season, someone will sign him for big $$$ and I’d just as soon not get in a bidding war for a bounceback player; if he has another 2008 this year (let’s hope not) I certainly don’t want to bring him back for another go around.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 15, 2009 11:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good comment

Regarding the FA class of starting pitchers after this season, it is actually one of the stronger ones that we have had in a while. Once you get past the high-risk/high-reward guys at the top, there is some pretty decent depth in guys like Padilla, Wolf, Duscherer, Myers and Millwood. Even assuming that half of the starters are out of our price range, that still leaves a lot of options for us.

Also, Scott Kazmir will probably be on the market, due to the Rays limited payroll and their wealth of cheap, young starters. The Rays would probably be looking for a haul in return, however, would they really turn down Wallace if we offered him?

I think that we are in really good shape next offseason. We have limited needs and the resources to fill them. My plan would be to sign an innings eater starting pitcher with some upside, like Myers or Padilla, and then trade for a SS, hopefully a guy like Yunel who could be a long term player on the team.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yunel Escobar

I highly doubt he’s going anywhere now that Lillibridge is in a White Sox uni. They really don’t have a top middle infield prospect to replace him with.

I think that we’re in good shape because our farm system is in such a state that we should be able to make a deal for a SS (because there’s a total lack of SS on the free agent market) by trading away depth and will have enough payroll to go after a legit top o’ the rotation starter.

My concern is third base. If Wallace doesn’t stick there and the organization doesn’t think that Craig can play there, what do we do? Sign Adrian Beltre? Make a trade for someone? If so, who? Re-sign Glaus? I don’t think Freese is the answer and I don’t think Mather could handle it for a full season any better than Wallace.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 15, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't saying that we could get Yunel

but a player of his caliber, who might have circumstances more friendly to us.

About third base, we have too many young, talented players not to play one of them. Freese hasn’t looked good so far this year, but his minor league track record has been presteen, and he is a good enough defender that he could provide value, even if he doesn’t hit very well. Craig and Mather can hit, but their fielding is as good as Freese’s. Either way, we should have a capable stopgap between those three.

I do think that we should wait on Wallace though. Look at how the Reds handled Joey Votto, who is a similar player to Wallace (highly polished bat, with no clear position). They were patient with him and he became an excellent player when he got a full time job.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All that is true about Votto

except where did he ultimately end up? First base! If you haven’t noticed we have a pretty good player manning that spot right now…

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t wait, what I’m saying is that if he doesn’t stick at third base, there really isn’t a reason to keep him if we can use him as the centerpiece of a package of players that brings back a good starting pitcher. He’s not going to be a good outfielder and if the club locks up Pujols through the end of his career he really doesn’t have a position to play with the Cardinals, unless hell freezes over and the NL adopts the DH rule. I love the kid and love his potential, but I’m being realistic with his options defensively.

I like our options at third base, although I’d really just like to see Allen Craig mash 30 bombs at Memphis this year while proving that he can handle the corner with the glove, then come up and give the Cards a lift in September and win the job next spring. He’s my favorite of all to options because of his athleticism, offensive potential, and his flexibility of being able to play multiple positions, along with the aforementioned doubt that Wallace is going to be able to hack it at the hot corner.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 16, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

someone finally made a Duncan for Cain proposal that actually made sense.

Well done fourstick!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Apr 16, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what are you talking about?

Cain & Lincecum for Baby Dunk is highway robbery. los gigantes would be fools not to take that deal.

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson

by gdm426 on Apr 16, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree we should package

Duncan, Anderson, and whoever else it would take to get a top OF or SP. I would love to get Holliday. I know he has an expiring contract but people would love him here in St. Louis and just look at the lineup with him in there. 1. Skip 2. Rasmus 3. Pujols 4. Ludwick 5. Holliday 6. Wallace 7. (put SS here) 8. Molina. I mean thats a lineup reminiscent of our lineups with edmonds, pujols, walker, ect.

by Jombari on Apr 15, 2009 11:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is it 2008 already?

We don’t need Holliday, and it isn’t like we would be able to outbid the Yankees or the Mets anyway. We would be much better served to use that money to get a SS and a starting pitcher.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why are people so infatuated with Holliday?

For the price, I’d rather have Duncan/Jones/Mather/Craig/Jay/Barton. All those guys put together cost 1/10 what Matt Holliday does. His splits away from Coors are not very good, and he’s sporadic defensively: good one year, bad the next. There’s a lot better ways to spend $15M — like on a good #1 starter.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 15, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i was just throwing the idea out there

Im curious to see what D. Jones can do. Does anyone know what he is expected to hit in a ML lineup? How is his speed?

by Jombari on Apr 15, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His success last year in the minors has been largely BABIP driven

And he doesn’t have the best track record. However, he has excellent secondary skills (speed, defense, walks), so that he should be a valuable player, even if he doesn’t hit out of the gate. I agree with Fourstick, some combo of Jones, Duncan, Mather, Jay or Barton would make a formidable left fielder.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 15, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jones

He’s off to a good start this year through 6 games and I think it’s only a matter of time before his bat puts him at the AAA level. Same with Wallace, although I’m not sure where Brett plays at AAA since Craig and Mather have been putting time at 3B so far. I would hope he’d get all the time at 3B, but with the way Craig is swinging the bat, he may bet a chance with the big club before long — I’m not sure you can keep running Thurston and Freese out there with Craig killing it at AAA. Since there’s room on the 40 man roster, it doesn’t make much since to leave him off, does it?

I feel like our system is where the Reds’ system was two years ago in that we almost have too many AAA players, albeit with a much better major league roster.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 16, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prospect surplus

We more than likely will make a move around the trade deadline this year for a pitcher (especially if Carp is not healthy and effective at that point). The centerpiece will be Jones or Wallace and the fillers will be two of Jay, Mather, Craig, Anderson, Todd, and maybe Duncan or Barton. It’s nice to have all this talent in the minors, but some of the fringe guys are probably at their highest value now and bringing in a good, young starter (unless the stars allign and we can get Halliday) will help us take control of the Central for the next couple years.

by thp0344 on Apr 16, 2009 1:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I like the idea of clearing some clutter

to pull in a top fight starter, but I think we should keep anderson. A good cost controlled backup catcher is a pretty valuable asset. Could increase his value and should help keep Yadi fresh.

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Apr 16, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Initial thoughts:

1) Duncan will be back so we shouldn’t need that “power hitting free agent” in LF. IMO, a better use of resources saved on Glaus’ contract would be spending on (or trading for) a decent SS.

Additionally, you can plug Jon Jay and Joe Mather into the OF glut, as likely 4th and 5th guys, plus maybe Barton (though I can see one of that 3some getting traded), Allen Craig may move to LF to accomodate Walrus in AAA, and Darryl Jones is in the pipeline – we don’t need ANY new outfielders for 3-4 years.

2) I think I’m happy with Schu/Barden as a long-term platoon at 2B. I reckon that could be about league average.

3) Some of the cash will be taken up with arbitration/new contract pay-outs. If Schu looks OK at 2B, I’m happy to lock him up long-term. Ludwick is going to cost some coin, and it’s possible we bring Ank back (though with the OF depth I’d rather see us let him go, especially if there’s any chance he’s a type-A).

4) Ryan Franklin won’t be back; you can give his slot to Jess Todd or maybe someone like Boggs/Walters/whoever from AAA.

5) Any spare cash we have left I’d like to see invested on a decent starter. I think the Lohse deal may’ve handcuffed us, and once we sign a SS, and pay arbitration/contract raises etc. the money we’ve saved from Glaus, Pineiro, Franklin etc. won’t be a great deal (probably $10m-ish at the most, and that’s if we go cheap with the SS). That said, if the economy is still in the shitter, and FA aren’t flying off the shelf, the guy I really want is BRANDON WEBB please. I’d be comfortable with a 4-year deal (or even 5), given his age and quality. I can’t see us getting him but I’d love to be part of the competition. With his GBing tendencies he’d be a great fit, and instantly makes us something of a juggernaut.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 16, 2009 4:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Webb has a club option for 2010

I really doubt the D-Backs aren’t picking that up, and if they don’t, I’d run scared that his arm issues are worse than advertised.

I don’t see any reason to bring back Ankiel. I love the guy, I love the story, but we’ve got two top-notch CF prospects who are younger, cheaper, and have the potential to be really good players. I’m actually for trading him if the opportunity presents itself to pick up a young starter or middle infielder for a team that is desperate to get some outfield pop. Move Rasmus to CF and start him full time, then bring up Barton/Mather/Craig and platoon them with Duncan in LF.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 16, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed with all the above.

I hadn’t realised Webb had an option. He becomes less appealling as a long-term option in his age 32 season…

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 16, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brett Myers looks pretty good

He is still in his 20’s, and he has shown to be a durable innings eater, who can put up occasional “ace” stretches of performance. Harden, or Bedard would be nice to, but I don’t think that we can afford to have so many injury risks in the staff.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 16, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

right...

.. unless everybody else thinks the same. there are a LOT of potential aces with injury risks as FAs next year. not just Bedard and Harden, but also Penny, Schmidt, Sheets in addition to Myers. and quite frankly, the traditional big spenders already have full rosters and high payrolls, so at least one of those guys could come fairly cheap.

by kindred on Apr 16, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brad Penny

…is may favorite of the lot.

His injury problems have been a bit of a mystery to me.

I shot some video of him during ST that I need to take a look at and see what’s going on.

by thepainguy on Apr 16, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like Penny

if we could get him for anything like what the Sox have paid this year. Sadly, if he’s halfway effective this year I can’t see it.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 17, 2009 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he's the '06 Brad Penny, ...

then I’ll give him $10M/year. He has dominating stuff, when healthy.

by etp_stl on Apr 17, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not keen on Myers at all

for one, I don’t want someone who thumped his wife in the face playing for the cardinals.

Secondly, I’m not sure he’s that good. He MAY eventually put it all together but he’s a bit too inconsistent and I think he’s yet to really prove he has the mental ability to be a day-to-day top of the rotation guy. Plus I reckon someone will be willing to stump up reasonable $ for his “unrealised promise”, given that he throws hard and kinda looks like he good be good, in the right conditions (a la Oliver Perez).

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 17, 2009 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SS

It’s clear to me that Schumaker moves to SS next year, but La Russa won’t tell him until three days before Spring Training. We have Thurston/Ryan/Tyler Greene in a three way time-share for 2B. Wallace should be good for half a year at 3B until he hurts his shoulder in some crazy collision with Duncan in LF. This clears the way for a 2011 position switch of Schumaker to 3B with Thurston/Ryan/Greene/Kozma now splitting time at 2B and SS. In 2012, Yadi has moved on and it seems only logical that Skip would do a reverse Joe Torre and move behind the plate. Wallace takes over 3B off and on while he recovers from his second shoulder surgery. Thurston/Ryan/Greene/Kozma need a backup so we bring Miles back to platoon with all of them.

I just haven’t figured out how to work Hoffpair into the rotation, but maybe we could get him some ABs in the OF while he waits for a break in the middle infield.

Just win

by The Duke on Apr 16, 2009 9:40 PM EDT reply actions   4 recs

This post is pure win

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.

by Gregatron on Apr 21, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

go cards

heres my 2 cents

1b pujols
2b schumaker/barden or another right handed bat that plays good defense and so so offense
3b wallace (u gotta believe he can learn 3b better, and with so many outfielders the cards will make sure he learns)
ss khalil greene or that ss first round pick 2 years ago sorry cant remember his name buts hes is alot like khalil green from wat ive heard

as for the outfield well… as sad as it is ankiel will be gone
but..
cf rasmus (5 tool players r always a plus)
rf ludwick (he will still be a solid offensive player for a couple more years)

as for lf i see a couple of options
the cards could go all out and get holliday (losing glaus, probably pinero, ankiel, and kennedy’s salary and hopefully the economy gets better, the cards have enough $)

or

we go with a duncan/ jones or watever good outfielder platoon

starting 5 i c it as..

1 wainwright
2 lohse
3 carpenter
4 a.either pinero or wellemeyer (hopefully one them stays)
    b. cardinals spend alot of money that they didnt spend on holliday on starting pitcher
    c. cardinals use their farm system and trade for good starting pitcher with not too many years left on contract
    d. minor leaguer excels and does great in rotation
5.a. random free agent duncan project
    b. kmac becomes duncan project and does good

bullpen

dennys reyes
kmac if hes not in the rotation
chris perez
maybe franklin and if not the cards will do their best to pick up good set up man
random lhp to replace miller
ruber arm innings eater probably thompson
j kinney ( he will turn it around)
j motte

i think tony will stick mostly with closer by committee if it works this season

bench
duncan if cards get holliday
barden
thurston?
barton?
mather?
ryan?

cards always find ways to get a good bench

remember pujols said last winter he will continue to play for the cards as long as they want to win. so spending money on other players to improve the team is a big deal…

by cardsforever on Apr 16, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i am tired of duncan expiraments

we finally have enough depth in the rotation to where one BIG TIME number 1 will make our rotation one of the best in baseball with or without carp. There is a time and a place for experiments like Wellemeyer, Pinero and others but with Lohse, Wainwright, Wellmeyer,Maybe Carpenter all we need is one big time starter

by Jombari on Apr 17, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We already have two potential big time starters

and a very solid #2 in Lohse. We have no depth in the minors and Carp is an injury risk. It would make sense to sign a durable #3 rather than a risky #1.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 17, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No to Holliday

Why go out and spend big time money on a position where we already have a surplus? Any combination of Mather/Duncan/Jones/etc… could provide the production we need w/o the cost. I’d rather spend money in the areas of need, aka starting pitching. If the Cards can get someone like Lackey, Duchscherer, or Harden then this could be the premier rotation of the NL.

And I don’t think a closer by committee will be happening in 2010. We’re not even sure if we will have a C.B.C. this year. It’s still early and anyone could step up and nail down the job. Perez hasn’t even had a save opportunity yet. I’d wait and see how this situtation pans out for this season before making the closer decisions for next year.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Apr 17, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts

The Cards won’t spend much for position players. Wallace will be at third, they will resign Greene since he is the only real option on the FA market, Schu will be at second, and Ankiel will probably be gone,(though I wouldn’t be surprised if they kept him) and Duncan will be in left, if he can hit like he has the last few games.
They will resign one of Wellemeyer and Piniero (probably Welly) and depending on how the minor league starters are doing as well as the health of CArp and Garcia, they may get another starter. They have a stock of minor leaguers to trade from to fill this need. I think they will make a serious attempt to get Halladay, and if they don’t get him, they could get a FA starter, preferably a lefty. Bedard, Wolf, and Davis are all out there. It all really depends on how the young guys do.
The only need in the ‘pen would be a LOOGY if miller doesn’t resign. If Franklin doesn’t come back, Todd or someone else will fill his spot. They are deep in RH relievers.

by ultimatecardinalfan on Apr 16, 2009 9:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2 holes

SP and SS.
There really isn’t anything else to spend money on next year.
Plus, there is a good chance that Shortstop of them is filled internally or via extension.
I say we go all out and sign a big name starter™ (looking over the list, no one stands out, but there is a season full of baseball between now and then).
Everything else should be covered, especially given the innumerable minor acquisitions that will be made (next year’s Joe Thurston, et al).
Anyway, a trade might be good as well, depending on who we have to give up, but that is harder to predict than free agent deals.

by aNdrOss on Apr 17, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not sure whether we can fill the SS vacancy internally

Kozma’s still probably 2 years away, Vasquez even further. The only plausible internal options are Barden (probably a very mediocre fielder there, a MIF of Schu and Barden would be one of the worst defensively in the major leagues, although I was in favour of giving him a chance pre-K.Greene) and Tyler Greene or Brendan Ryan, both of whom can field but are likely to be disastrous hitting options at major league level. If we’re trotting the likes of those guys out, without improving our 2B spot, I think we’re looking at a much weaker team. Our middle infield wouldn’t be far ahead of replacement level.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 17, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barden has been well above average at second and third defensively by Total Zone in the minors

meaning that he would probably be an average fielding SS. If he can hit anywhere close to league average, than he would be a league average player there. Barden may be the best stopgap out there, assuming we don’t make a big trade.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 18, 2009 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he was a +3 TZR at SS last year. which probably means average or a notch above.

small sample size warning — that was about 270 attempts.

I have to keep reminding myself of the dangers of small sample sizes with barden. I started out more optimistic than most about him. now that he’s hit 3 HR in a dozen or so at-bats, I have to stop myself from getting too hopeful. crazy thoughts like “he could be our starting SS in 2010” pop into my head.

then i say “brendan ryan in 2007. abe nunez in 2005. gary bennett for that week in 2006 when he hit that grand slam or whenever that was.”

someone tell me when it’s okay to be optimistic on barden again.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 20, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2B – Schu
CF – Colby
1B – Albert
RF – Ludwick
LF – Duncan
3B – Glaus
SS – Greene, (Tyler)
C – Yadi

BN1 – Ryan (2B/SS)
BN2 – Barden (2B/3B)
BN3 – Mather (OF/1B/3B)
BN4 – Barton (LF/CF/RF)
BN5 – FA (or maybe B. Anderson) – C

SP1 – Wainwright
SP2 – Lohse
SP3 – Someone we traded Ankiel or Duncan for
SP4 – Wellemeyer
SP5 – Boggs/Walters/FA
SP6 – Mortensen/Lynn/Garcia

RHRP – Perez
RHRP – Motte
RHRP – Adam Reifer (makes team out of ST)
RHRP – McClellan
LHRP – Reyes
LHRP – FA

Some *WAGNERS:

I think the percolation of arms up from the minors will push Thompson off the team, and that Pineiro won’t be back.
I also think T. Greene will show just enough this year to be in the plans for next year and be handed the starting job with a heavy use of a backup.
One of Barden/Ryan/Mather/Barton will be dropped in favor of a veteran FA, but I don’t know which (probably Ryan).
Wallace is not quite ready in 2010, providing further incentive to keep him down.

*WAGNER = Wild Ass Guess, Not Easily Refuted

by siddfynch on Apr 17, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Glauss re-signed on a one yeard deal?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Apr 17, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You like Khalil Greene's defense?

He has not impressed me with his defense at all. He has three errors already and I have seen at least one more that should have been called an error. I have not seen his range yet and his arm isn’t that impressive. Unless he starts playing defense and hitting well, I would not like to see him back.

I would love to see Crawford signed along with 1 or 2 good starters, a SS, (probably through trade), some good relief help, and hopefully Wallace will be at third. We have some money to spend with Glaus, Kennedy’s contract, Khalil, and Ankiel all coming off the books.

I hope that we trade Ankiel this season at the deadline for whatever we need, although he needs to start hitting to be a valuable tradechip.

by JoeyBombs on Apr 19, 2009 9:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Albert

has three errors, too.

Classic underachiever.

by spants on Apr 19, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

trade that bum!

It kind of sounds like he’s [Duncan] just running around like a puppy out there – full speed ahead in random directions. – BTown Birds Fan

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

by gdm426 on Apr 20, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He makes up for his error a little more than Greene does

Greene doesn’t look like he’s comfortable a lot of the time.

by JoeyBombs on Apr 20, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but the point is that albert is a very good defender; not a bad defender who "makes up"

for his bad defense with the bat.

it just happens that he has a few bad games and a few errors. this is the frequently-cited “small sample size” error.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Apr 20, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And even though

Greene will never be mistaken for Izturis, I think the small sample size reasoning applies to him as well.

Classic underachiever.

by spants on Apr 20, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Albert just saved Khalil Greene from another error.

All I said is that he has not impressed me because I have not seen him play good defense yet. I see him struggle with balls to his left and not having a canon to make up for it. I’m not saying he is a bad defender, I’m just saying that he has been since he came to the Cardinals and it is hard for me to like it because I have not seen anything but poor defense from him.

by JoeyBombs on Apr 21, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

umm...
I would love to see Crawford signed along with 1 or 2 good starters, a SS, (probably through trade), some good relief

First, Crawford is under contract for a while and the Rays would want a haul for him. Second, we wouldn’t really need him either. He is maybe a 3-4 WAR player, but Duncan or Jones could come close to that, and they wouldn’t cost a shit ton of prospects. Also, 1 or 2 good starters would run us about 20 million a year these days. Add a SS to the mix and I don’t see how we could possibly pull any of that off.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 19, 2009 9:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

reply fail

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 19, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and im just saying what I want to happen, not what will happen

and if the economy is bad next offseason we might get 2 starters and a SS. I’m not saying we need two aces just two guys good starters good enough to be a 2 or 3 starter. Escobar would have been cheap if we got him this offseason.

by JoeyBombs on Apr 19, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Escobar would have cost Ludwick and a prospect

I would not call that cheap.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on Apr 20, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't remember that rumor

From what I remember, it was always Ludwick and a good prospect for Escobar.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 22, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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