St. Louis Ticket Sales

by thegodfather on Apr 1, 2009 2:15 PM EDT Comment 7 comments

This is just a sort of quick rundown of what I've noticed about Cardinal ticket sales up to this point on StubHub. There are some fantastic deals right now I'll link for anyone that's interested.

First off, I bought season tickets starting this year. I got awesome seats, third baseline in the infield field box section. Here's a Stadium Map. I'm selling most of the tickets on StubHub because I'm obviously not going to all of the games, not even close. This is likely what most people do who have these seats because they require that the ticket holders actually own a seat license for their seats. The location of the seats plus the license makes them very expensive. As recently as last year, I've bought tickets to the couple of games I went to from StubHub in the infield field box section. Two weeks in advance, these tickets would cost at least $150 each, usually more like $175 apiece. I'm not talking about Cubs games, just your standard games.

So, what's your point?

Cardinals tickets don't appear to be selling well on StubHub, which is the offical marketplace, as compared to other teams' tickets. As of now there are still 1605 opening day tickets left, and 3039 game 2 tickets left. These games both take place in the next week! For reference, here are some numbers for other teams, game one tickets remaining as of this writing, followed by game two. Keep in mind that many of the other teams' first and second home games take place well after the first Cardinals game.

St. Louis - 1605, 3039

Kansas City - 1224, 717

Cincinnati - 961, 177

Pittsburgh - 869, 4005

Houston - 1235, 995

Colorado - 1150, 361

Washington - 979, 481

I don't know if we can draw any conclusions from this, but it's at least a little scary. Does this mean that Cardinal fans just aren't going to come out to games this year like before? Is it all related to the economy? If so, why does it appear that other teams aren't having such problems? Is it because no major moves have been made recently? No playoff appearances for two years? Does this data mean nothing at all?

I don't know the answers. All I know is that I haven't sold a single pair of tickets yet and I'm worried I'm going to end up losing a large part of my investment in my season tickets. For those of you who buy tickets to individual games, this means you can get tickets really, really cheap. The face values on my tickets in the infield field box section range from $89 - $104 each. You can get infield field box tickets for under $40 each on StubHub now (excluding opening day). Here's the StubHub link if any of you are interested in going to one of these games. They are all great seats at incredible deals, well below face value.

Here is Memphiscub's related fanpost.

What do you guys think? Am I crazy or does it look like attendance could be really poor this year?

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StubHub

That is a market for already-sold tickets being re-sold by their purchasers. I don’t think that this means much of anything, really. Aren’t the Cardinals already over 2.8MM tickets sold?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Apr 1, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's right

but if the tickets are for sale on StubHub, that means the people who own the tickets aren’t going to the game. So if no one buys them, then those seats will be empty. If the demand for tickets on StubHub has declined as much as it appears, the Cards may have problems filling seats to the degree that they’ve become accustomed to.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Apr 1, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be interested in a comparison to early last season

I got some great deals on StubHub before the Cards turned heads as possible contenders. Could there have been a similar lag in demand last March-into-April?

Also, folks may be holding back due to the economy.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Apr 1, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No need to worry...

I think your basic assumption is wrong. If someone is trying to re-sell tickets, that doesn’t mean the ticket will not be used if it isn’t sold on StubHub. There are a myriad of scenarios in which an un-re-sold ticket would actually mean someone is sitting in the seat on Opening Day. Basic Example: “I can’t go to opening day and I tried to sell the ticket on StubHub. Here, would you like to go?” Also, there may be a few people who remember the wash out of last year’s opening day (I was there – cold and wet) who are trying to hedge against the weather but if it is 70 and sunny, their butts’ll be in their ticketed seats.

Overall, it’s the season long # tickets sold, NOT actual real-time attendance that is important to the financial health of the ball club. I may be wrong, but MLB bases “attendance” on tickets sold, not how many people really show up to a game.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

by p_lampe on Apr 1, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My basic assumption

is only wrong as long as the person with season tickets (1) lives very close to or in St. Louis and (2) can find someone who can go to the game the day of the game. My tickets, if unsold, will not be used.

Maybe I should rephrase my thinking. If the demand for tickets on the resale market StubHub has declined to the point where you can get some of the best seats in the park for under half of face value, then that would seem to be indicitave of a drastic reduction in overall ticket demand, no? That’s what worries me. If people are so reluctant to even buy tickets, that means they will likely be just as reluctant to buy merchandise and food at the games. The combination could obviously be very harmful to the organization.

And I know it’s probably not a huge deal overall, but if a greater percentage of sold tickets are going unused, that’s going to mean less revenue for the team because of sales of goods at the ballpark.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Apr 2, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not that worried, yet

There were plenty of tickets left on Stub Hub for opening day last year too, I know because my uncle ended up getting tickets the day before the game and sitting right behind the third base dugout. From the look of the official site, the game is sold out and there’s very few tickets left for games 2 and 3.

I think you’re looking at an awfully small window to determine overall ticket purchasing. They’ve sold 2.8 million tickets so far, which is lagging behind last year, but that’s to be expected. That’s still quite a few tickets. It seems to me that the team can break even after it’s debt obligations on the stadium if they sell over 3 million tickets. If this club contends and one or more guys have truly breakout seasons, I see the Cardinals being ok in the overall scheme of things league wide. It’s the small market teams with big stadium debt obligations that really need to worry (San Diego, Pittsburgh, etc.)

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Apr 1, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My Theory is

this is just not that exciting of a team. The Cardinals have not fielded a great team—modestly defining a great team as one that wins 90 games or more—since 2005, and have averaged only 83 wins a year since then. They made few major moves, and they don’t look particularly competitive.

Baseball Prospectus predicts them to win an uninspiring 83 games, finishing 12 games behind the Cubs, but “only” 5 games out of a Wild Card berth, but in 5th place in the Wild Card chase.

If you were to list the number of Cardinals that are one of the top players in the league at their position, after Pujols there is not single player who clearly belongs. You could argue Ludwick, but he needs more than one season of success to really make a strong case, and Molina is solid but not really a star. Carpenter is years away from greatness, and Wainwright has never really had a top season.

So, we have what has been and looks to be an 83-win team with one star player, likely to finish more than 10 games behind the Cubs. And the Cards claim they can’t spend more on the team due to stadium payments (just a few years after they said they needed a new stadium so they could spend more on the team….)

by tarakas on Apr 3, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs