The shaded part on the 2B/LF Venn Diagram
by DanUpBaby on Mar 2, 2009 8:45 AM EST
187 comments
And with three swings Brian Barton comes charging to the head of the race for the honorable Coolbaugh Award, given to the king of Spring Training in honor of the late Mike Coolbaugh, who caused a minor uproar in the Up household when his furious 2002 spring was not rewarded with a spot on the opening day roster.
About those two home runs: Barton hasn't hit for serious power since he put a hole in the Carolina League as a 24-year-old, so they seem even less predictive than Spring Training stats normally are, but his goal isn't a tough one—he's got to get his slugging percentage over, what, .420? If he hits two home runs a month he'll be fine.
Of course, the big thing for him to do, if he wants to break camp with the Cardinals, is help Skip Schumaker with his infield defense. English majors pick up your highlighters–it's time for some La Russa Close Reading.
"Those two balls he missed are easily remedied," said Cardinals manager Tony La Russa. "Your first move has got to be in. He just needs to work on it. But he didn't put his head in the sand. He dives and makes a play. It's a great example of his toughness."
Which is to say, "He's still a second baseman, and he's going to be until he fields a ground ball and gets confused looking for the cut-off man." La Russa is taking this conversion seriously, and I'm glad he is; a trade aside, this is the one chance the Cardinals have to take the outfield surplus and apply it to the hole in the middle infield. If Skip's fielding .850 around May Day I'll be willing to see this stubbornness in a negative light, but in Spring Training La Russa can't be guilty of trying too hard to fit Schumaker into the round hole.
His caddy yesterday was Jarrett Hoffpauir, who is the Cardinals' practical replacement level for this experiment, and maybe the best-known quantity of all the second basemen-in-waiting. 26 this year, Hoffpauir spent 2007 putting himself on the prospect map with an .880 OPS between AA and AAA, and took himself off it with an unspectacular 2008.
He's a Short, Scrappy Hustler (alt. a Short, Hustling Scrapper) in the grand Ecksteinian tradition: a middling defender—scouts say average, stats, at least last season, say Schumaker—whose one tool is an incredible grasp of the strike zone. He's post-prime Eckstein without the shortstop defense, otherwise known as Aaron Miles, and if he makes the team it will be because the seas in front of him have parted, not because he's fought his way to the top. Watch him this spring—more importantly, watch the people in front of him.
Today (12:10, v. the Devil Rays) Adam Wainwright makes his spring debut. If Chris Carpenter comes north somehow Not Right, be it in terms of health or effectiveness, it will be too bad. If Wainwright struggles with either one heading into the regular season, it will be time to panic.
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With Freese injured
does this improve the Crabman’s chances to be in StL? Mather looks like another OF/IF conversion, starting at 3B. There no other RH OF bat besides Barton.
I still think there’ll be a trade before Opening Day—one or more of the OFs for pitching. Unfortunately I don’t believe it will be C Duncan.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:
by gocards62 on Mar 2, 2009 9:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I still don't think Duncan will bring us enough back...
(insert Lincecum or Cain as not being ‘enough back’ jokes here – because the Giants need a left-handed 1st baseman)
I still think that it has got to be Ankiel that goes in a trade. I would hate to see that. If we could somehow find a team that needed a Chris Duncan/David Freese combination (after Glaus and Freese both get back healthy), then that would leave an OF of Mather, Barton, Rasmus, Ludwick, and Ankiel with Glaus at 3B and Schumaker at 2B. Either Craig, Wallace, Ryan, Barden, Hoffpaiuer (sp?), or Thurston could back up 3B (or Mather, for that matter.) A few of them could back up 2B/SS as well. As long as only two of them stay on the roster (+ Mather), we’d have our team set for the year, I think.
In any case, without trading Ankiel, I don’t believe we get any help on the big league pitching staff. I think it was in the Hot Stove post that someone mentioned keeping an eye on Pedro Martinez because he could be the next best thing for Duncan to reform into his younger self. I am totally with that as long as it comes at a fairly cheap price. I think they could have him in the back of the rotation OR in the back end of the bullpen.
by stlfan on Mar 2, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how Ankiel has more trade value than Duncan
Ankiel has one full, injury-plagued season under his belt, and will be a free agent next season. If you don’t think that Duncan, who has 2 cost-controlled years left, has any value, then I’m not sure how you could consider Ank to have any more.
I’d be willing to bet that a team would rather take a flier on Duncan if they’re trading a young pitcher than they would trade for Ankiel, who might not be healthy all year and who would be gone after the season. If Duncan is healthy, he’s a .850-.900 OPS corner outfielder with 3 full cost-controlled years left (‘09,’10,‘11). You’re getting pretty good value there.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Mar 2, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Health
Ankiel has had injuries, to be sure. Duncan, however, suffered a back injury and then had a surgery on his back to repair a disc which has never before been performed on a professional athlete. I believe this gives Ankiel more value than Duncan, due to the novelty of the operation.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 2, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree...
But if I’m trading a young starter for a player, I’d like to get the most out of it. Both players are injury risks, but if Duncan is healthy you get three full seasons from him. If Ankiel is healthy you get one full season and then he’s gone, unless you plan to re-sign him for megabucks. I’d rather take the chance on Duncan being healthy for three years than Ankiel for one year.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Mar 2, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced
that ankiel OR duncan have much trade value.
You might get a very marginal 5th starter type (i.e. Edwin Jackson mould) for them or an OK-ish double-A prospect, but it’s hard to see much more coming back.
No-one’s giving us Jonathan Sanchez or Kevin Slowey for one year of Ankiel.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Mar 2, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
also
duncan is not a .850-.900 OPS player when healthy. projections for his 2009 OPS range from .761-.810. even if we put on our cardinal-colored glasses on and also hope for full health, then he is a .800-.850 OF with below average defense, which make his cost-controlledness his best asset.
i agree right now ankiel has slightly more value on the trade market.
by Fred Head on Mar 2, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
projections are not measurements
duncan is almost certainly better than a .760-.810 OPS player if healthy.
"i have a feeling the answers are bigger than the questions" -Dr Heyward Floyd
by SleepyCA on Mar 2, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The .850-.900 OPS projections
Those projections stem from the belief that the last time he was healthy was the 2nd half of 2006 through the first half of 2007. In theory, he should be healthy now, and return to how he hit back then. In theory. In that span he hit:
463 AB, 35 HR, .292/.377/.575 (.952 OPS)
I’m not sure he’ll ever be THAT good again, but I don’t think an .850 OPS is unrealistic if he really is healthy. In the end, we can’t really know how much of his production collapse was because of injury and how much was because he just isn’t that good. But I think we may find out this year.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Conterpoint
Ankiel’s one season produced 413 at bats. Chris Duncan had 280 ABs three years ago and 375 ABs two years ago…then fell back to 222 at bats last year in which he slugged like Juan Pierre.
Ankiel’s one season (again, last year – more recent than Duncan’s “1 season” that was really split between two seasons) was a fantastic year that everyone in the biz seems to believe will only improve.
Duncan has not been seen as a top prospect very often in his career. He has zero plus side on the defensive end. He does not run quickly on the base paths (although I don’t know that he’s a BAD runner.) Ankiel is a little quicker on the run, at least. He has a plus, plus arm in the OF and when he gets a good jump on the ball looks like a defensive stud.
Ankiel also had a higher increase in his BB% than Duncan last year. Of course, Duncan still walks at a higher rate, but he has not improved as quickly in that category as Ankiel over the course of the last 2-3 years.
by stlfan on Mar 2, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're not refuting my argument at all
You’re arguing that Ankiel is a better player — I haven’t said that Duncan is a better player than Rick. I think Rick has more potential and is a better player right now than Ankiel is. Now that that’s settled….
My whole argument is that if a GM is going to trade a young, major league ready starting pitcher, they are going to want more in return than just one season of an oft-injured player like Ankiel. Sure, he has upside, but if he has an awesome year you’re faced with the option of signing him for big bucks or getting one compensation pick for him as he will probably not be a Type A unless he hits 50 homers. If he gets hurt, he still is a free agent and can test the waters — if you don’t sign him you get nothing.
Duncan has three cost controlled years left. If he’s fully recovered and puts up an .850ish OPS+ like he’s capable of, you’re going to get three years of that (barring injury, but that’s the same issue for both players) for the same price as 1 FA year of Rick Ankiel. You’re getting more bang for your buck if both players are healthy.
You’ve done nothing to “counterpoint” this argument — you just keep saying that Ankiel is more talented, which I have no issue with. But the contract and cost-control issues are not non-starters in any deal involving these two players, they are very much real concerns and costs that need to be factored in. If we’re talking “trade value”, I think Duncan has as much value as Ankiel does simply because of these factors.
Also, IMO, you’re overvaluing Duncan’s “prospect” status. Ankiel hasn’t ever been a “prospect” as a position player, so I don’t see what that has to do with anything. He’s proved he can hit at the big league level, so that’s what GM’s should be looking at, as well as scouting reports from their scouts.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Mar 2, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whoops
I think Rick has more potential and is a better player right now than Duncan is. Now that that’s settled
….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Mar 2, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2002 ST stats
2 things. Jimmy was the man in 2002 and wow our team batting average looks to be pretty amazing that spring.
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Mar 2, 2009 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Barton's OBP
In the minors is incredible
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Mar 2, 2009 9:46 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I noticed that too
I wonder what a .413 OBA translates to in the majors.
I’m pretty high on Barton myself — he was my pick as the “break out” player for this spring (among non pitchers) on the break out thread.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
by Gregatron on Mar 2, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's impossible
to be a Cardinal fan and not be pulling for the Skip conversion. Everyone I know wants it to happen. If he does it, I think Skip’s new tagline will be “he’s a baseball player.”
by Toddius on Mar 2, 2009 10:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm rooting
for Skip to be traded actually. He serves no purpose….why bother forcing him into the 2nd base slot.
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Mar 2, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. What a buzzkill!!!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Mar 2, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
unless he actually can play 2B
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 2, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why bother forcing him into the 2nd base slot.
Because if he can be acceptable defensively at 2B, then he does serve a purpose. He moves our OF glut in a contructive manner. Skip would bring almost nothing of value in a trade at this point in time. “Forcing” him into playing 2B could possibly help out the team a bunch, and he’ll be able to get regular playing time even with our crowded OF.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Mar 2, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's like making a trade for a good 2B
in spring training, without actually making a trade
by STLRegalia on Mar 2, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
I laughed, but in reality it is kinda like that.
Moving Skip to 2B could end up being similar to trading Skip for Kelly Johnson. How sick would that be, after the Braves wanted Ludwick for him?
Yay Mo for not doing anything stupid with our OF surplus.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
As funny as that particular Dan n Al cliche is, Skip to second could end up being a great move. Could… we shall have to see! I’m optimistic about it so far.
by mattybobo on Mar 2, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
skip
is under team control for four more years and his arb yrs won’t be extremly expensive at leadoff with low hr/rbi totals on a platoon usage.
by ball in play on Mar 2, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And like making a trade for a young prospect you can plug into the OF
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Mar 2, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shame that young prospects bat seems to be missing in action.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
by Red Blazer on Mar 2, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what does that mean?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Mar 2, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I think a lot of people are thinking of the Skip-to-second move as a poor move because they don’t think it will work out. Well I don’t think it will work either… but I still think it’s a good move.
“What the hell are you talking about you idiot?”
I’m glad you asked. Here is my reasoning:
I don’t know what Skip’s chances of being an acceptable defender at second are, but I know they are greater than zero. They are also probably well under 50 percent, so chances are he probably will not be a viable option. Pulling a number out of the air, I’ll say Skip has about a 20 percent chance of being not horrible at second base. He is very athletic and has a great work ethic. That 20 percent is worth the risk, because of the massive upside if he DOES work out. And if it doesn’t, we really have not lost anything.
It’s really like having a solid second base prospect who will either develop super quickly, or flame out very quickly.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
by Gregatron on Mar 2, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"It’s really like having a solid second base prospect "
That’s a great way to look at it.
"i have a feeling the answers are bigger than the questions" -Dr Heyward Floyd
by SleepyCA on Mar 2, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Al?
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Mar 3, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
Despite being a -0.9 win player defensively last year in the OF, he was still a 2.4 win player because of his bat.
With that same defensive production at 2B last year, he would’ve been a a 4.8 win player or so.
So let’s imagine he becomes a negative-3.0 win player defensively at 2B and hits the same as last year…that makes him a 2.7 win player. I don’t know if that’s a realistic projection for him at 2B — someone tell me what they think.
By comparison, Kennedy was a 1.8 win player in 2008. Miles was a 1.7 win player.
If Skip were to manage being a 2.7 win player in 2009, that would be sweet. Other players that were around that level:
Brandon Phillips – 3.0
Marco Scutaro – 2.8
Akinori Iwamura – 2.7
Jose Lopez – 2.3
Kelly Johnson – 2.3
Tack on the fact that Skip costs next to nothing and the fact that moving him out of the outfield opens a spot for a better player, and I can’t possibly see how this isn’t an amazing idea. It’d be a huge upgrade for our offense. Remember that sick feeling you got last year when Kennedy came to the plate? Imagine if it were Skippy instead!
(P.S. I did this post in about 2 minutes, so if I missed some hugely important variable or way overestimated Skip’s realistic defensive approximation, just let me know.)
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your math is a bit off, i think.
k. johnson hits more around .850 OPS and is something like a 2.7 win player. and he was only 9 runs (.9 wins) last year.
i don’t even think there was a -3 win player defensively at 2b last year.
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
probably rasmus, ryan, or thurston (or whoever else starts at 2b: barden, t. greene).
other than rasmus and barton, that’s . . . uhh . . .
Let me put it this way, I hope we see either good fielding at 2b from skip or some really good hitting from the other potential 2bers.
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, can't fathom him not being on the team right now
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 2, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Colby Rasmus
may have been saying the same thing about himself last spring when he was tearing it up….
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Mar 2, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then I will not be happy
Not that anyone cares. :P
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
by Gregatron on Mar 2, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cobbler at the Keystone
La Russa is taking this conversion seriously, and I’m glad he is; a trade aside, this is the one chance the Cardinals have to take the outfield surplus and apply it to the hole in the middle infield. If Skip’s fielding .850 around May Day I’ll be willing to see this stubbornness in a negative light, but in Spring Training La Russa can’t be guilty of trying too hard to fit Schumaker into the round hole.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, DanUp. Right now, in Spring Training, TLR should remain committed to this conversion (even if it looks more and more ill-fated what with infield defense guru Jose Oquendo heading off to the WBC). The potential upside for this position change is far too great to give up on it too soon. However, with a pitch-to-contact, induce groundballs philosophy toward pitching, the club also cannot pencil Skippy in at second after it is clear that the plan is not coming together.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 2, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Schumaker is not a Puerto Rican name
Otherwise I’d say he should work on his tan and his accent, and follow Jose over there.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
by Gregatron on Mar 2, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry guys and gals
Joe Thurston in left field today. Just in case you were getting all agitated at how few middle infielders we were seeing in the outfield. I know I was. Some kind of Kennemiles Withdrawl Syndrome.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Did you comment on the stltoday boards as well?
by stlfan on Mar 2, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I did
I’m all over the damn place. I’m like a ninja.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say
that if you didn’t, someone right on your brainwave posted there…because it was nearly ver batum.
by stlfan on Mar 3, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think of the two - thurston or schumaker -
schu clearly needs the innings at second. thurston clearly needs the at-bats. LF gets thurston the at-bats. no harm, no foul.
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean to come off as serious
I’ve got nothing against putting Thurston in left in spring training if it means he can get ABs.
That said, I’m not sure why you put Thurston in LF and put Barton at DH, especially since it’s supposedly believed that Barton’s defense needs some work (though his UZR was +4.0 in the OF last year). That indicates to me that TLR is actually interested in seeing if Thirsty can play the outfield competently.
I was opposed to Miles and Kennedy experimenting in the OF down the stretch. That’s just not the time for that. But this doesn’t bug me. In fact, if you’re gonna mess around and try new things, ST is the time to do it.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Skip sticks at 2B
I don’t give Thurston much chance to make the team. If we are going to carry a back-up MI (and we do need to), that person should probably be RH (since Skip doesn’t hit well against LHP) and able to play SS (since you do need a back-up SS, and that is not going to be Skip). Thurston is LH and hasn’t played SS. If T. Greene keeps on looking good, I think he has the advantage.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Mar 2, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Logically, you're correct
But, we are the club that carried Felipe Lopez, Cesar Izturis, Adam Kennedy, and Aaron Miles last season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 2, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RH and capable of play SS
That’s Brendan Ryan in a nutshell. Given his ML experience, I imagine that he has the edge over Greene by default, assuming that wrist of his heals up.
By the way, Ryan is .304/.364/.368 (.732 OPS) in his short career against lefties in the majors. In the minors he was .269/.375/.423 (.798 OPS). By comparison, against RHP his ML OPS is .620 and his minor league OPS is .686.
He was built for platooning, and he plays a pretty nice SS to boot.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
let's not forget Barden...
who’s played decent in limited exposure this Spring and had a solid year at AAA last year.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
by cardzfanbub on Mar 2, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and T. Greene
We have three guys battling for the utility infield spot who bat RH and can play SS. T. Greene committing two errors today sure didn’t help his cause.
by jjray on Mar 2, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like greene at all
That AAA whiff rate (31.5%!!!!!!) and his K/BB ratio is going to get eaten up at the big league level. Guy can’t hit MLB-quality breaking balls and most teams’ll figure that out soon enough. He’ll catch the occasional one down his pipe and force it long but I see CHONE has him pegged for a .274 OBP. He’s not a major league hitter, and from what I hear his defence is nothing special. Barden’s a better player in almost all regards (the projections have him on base in the .300-320 range next year and from what I’ve heard he’s probably a better 2B defensively than Greene); I’d rather see him or possible Ryan as the platoon partner (or even Hoffpauir).
Greene swings when a seagull flies past.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Mar 3, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ryan could make a case
That split vs. LHP is interesting, to say the least. And he does a good Tigger impression, which is always a plus. I hope he does come out doing well in a few weeks.
If the team really wanted to play Barden, wouldn’t they have done it last year? I know the Olympics put him out of reach for a while.
But all of it seems just a bad situation for Thurston to make the team. Unless Skip just can’t play 2B.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Mar 3, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
agreed about Barden – I don’t think they’re that high on him.
If we’re not going to pick up Grudz/Durham, I’d rather they let Ryan/Barden fight it out in ST, but give both of them a good chance to make the team. They’d be serviceable platoon options (though Ryan’s bat diving off a cliff last year scared me, and I think Barden has a better minor league record – Ryan’s OPS is about .660 in AAA over about 450PAs, in a hitters’ league, which doesn’t really bode well for him in the majors).
If Grudzielanek is available for <2m we’d be foolish not to give him a look.
Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.
by Felonius_Monk on Mar 3, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The trouble with Durham or Grudz
As far as I can tell, is that they make sense only if Skip can’t play 2B. Neither of them can play SS (or, at least, they have not done that much). Until Skip is out at 2B (which I hope won’t be soon), signing Grudz or Durham duplicates what we already have—a dedicated 2B who hits but can only play that MI position.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Mar 3, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how else is he going to get ABs?
With skip taking up almost all of them at 2nd?
by Evilfrog on Mar 2, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See above about me not being seriously critical of the move, however...
I would’ve switched Barton and Thurston today — Barton DH’d.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ptbnl
has the ptbnl in the khalil greene trade ever been named . . . it seems as though the player was supposed to not be on the 40 man roster at the time of the trade and was rumored to be a rhp? i might just be making that up though
"I wouldn’t have seen it if I hadn’t believed it.’" ~Shannon
by sprfldcard on Mar 2, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not that I know of...
Here’s hoping that it isn’t Lance Lynn though…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Mar 2, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I read
somewhere that it was a player with some injury concerns. I could be wrong about anything though.
by Toddius on Mar 2, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It can't be Lance Lynn
He hasn’t been with the organization for a year yet so he can’t be traded until June or July
by nmstar on Mar 2, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gordo mentioned this in his piece today
All in all, a veritable treasure trove of information that is definitely worth a read. He hinted at the PTBNL, but left no hint as to who it would be:
Clayton Mortensen’s sore elbow is a setback. So is the looming exit of a prospect as the player to be named later in the Khalil Greene deal.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 2, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I've ever heard a Gordo column
described as “a veritable treasure trove of information.” That makes me laugh.
by bmorgan on Mar 2, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I've ever heard a Gordo column
described as “definitely worth a read”. If that is really the case, I might have to check out this column.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Mar 2, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that bgh is Gordo in disguise
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 2, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he could be the PD's shell account
bernie-gordo-hummel…
"i have a feeling the answers are bigger than the questions" -Dr Heyward Floyd
by SleepyCA on Mar 2, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then how would you explain the Iowa/Cardinals logo?
Unless all three of those guys happened to be from Iowa…
But I do like the shell account theory
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Mar 2, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone read that yet? because i'm not going to till i get a second opinioni
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Mar 3, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting but noteworthy
I was at the spring training work-outs last Monday (I have a bunch of pics to post as soon as they are developed — forgot my digital camera when I made the trip cuz I’m a f***ing idiot) and Schu looked pretty good going to his left, towards first base, but has a lot of trouble with his first step to his throwing side, which is something that a ton of middle infielders have problems with. It’s going to be imperative for him to develop better movement that direction, because Pujols will gobble up a ton of balls to his first base side. He’s got the arm strength to throw out guys from deep in the hole, so getting to the ball is really the only thing he’s got to improve on. I didn’t get to see him turn many balls over at second (for double plays) during the session, and footwork is key here as well. He has very good hands, so that should help a lot.
Other notes (I’ll include a few more in the FanShot when I put up the pics):
- Motte looked wicked tough in his live bullpen session. He tangled up Brett Wallace something terrible with a very good slider coming off his big fastball. This has me optimistic that he will be a shutdown guy out of the bullpen. Wallace was the only guy to hit a ball fair off of him, Craig didn’t hit a ball out of the cage, and Tyler Green struck out swinging twice (surprise, surprise).
- Wallace has very good feet for a guy as big as he is (and I mean big — his thighs would dwarf a defensive tackle’s), but he definitely has some work to do at third base. Both he and Tyler Greene took some extra ground balls after the practice game was over, and a couple of things jumped out at me:
- He’s very good at moving towards the line and getting his body in position to throw, but he doesn’t open step to his left towards the hole on a ball hit to that side, so he’s going to be half a second slow to his left until he develops that. They were working on this throughout the session.
- He snatches at the ball when it gets near him. This will lead to a lot of bobbles and errors on balls that have side-spin or take bad hops. He has extremely quick hands so he’s able to compensate for this tendency, but he’ll get eaten up on a lot of balls if he continues to do this. His fielding just isn’t fluid like his batting stroke is, yet. I was very impressed with his feet — he’s very quick and moves very well. He gets down the first baseline as well as Freese and Craig do, he just looks more lumberjack than speedster.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Mar 2, 2009 10:51 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Very interesting
Thanks for the first-hand report. I look forward to seeing your pix.
by cardsgirl95 on Mar 2, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Good news about Motte. I freakin love that guy and am hopeful he makes the team.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 2, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Our will is stronger than your doubt."
Apparently, per Derrick Goold, that’s the Schumaker family’s philosophy. He has it tattooed to his shoulder for good measure. Understandably his current state of mind is “Uncomfortable”, which just happens to be the same as Joe Strauss every time he has to type Skip’s name and second baseman in the same sentence. I did get a chuckle out of this.
Your greatest regret?
Not taking groundballs earlier in my career.
He’s not the only one with that regret, but I certainly won’t doubt his will.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Mar 2, 2009 10:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
No wonder
This explains why Skip has inherited the “tough” label which TLR bestows on but one smaller, middleinfielder type per season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 2, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How can that be a regret?
Did he expect earlier in his career that he’d be making the OF-to-2B conversion?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Mar 2, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he should have seen the writing on the wall with Jay & Colby on his tail
or hoped that trade with the Rocks went down
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Mar 3, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup via Hummel
Skip Schumaker 2b
Joe Thurston lf
Albert Pujols 1b
Rick Ankiel cf
Joe Mather 3b
Jon Jay rf
Brian Barton dh
Jason LaRue c
Tyler Greene ss
(Adam Wainwright p)
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Mar 2, 2009 12:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
and Kennedy is leading off for TB
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Mar 2, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prediction
AK try slapping one at Skip. Still looking for his first hit of the spring. Gameday still has Kennedy in his Cardinal hat. Maybe Izzy can pitch some as well which would be his first work of ST.
by ubeddie on Mar 2, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Strange feeling
Seeing Wainwright pitching to Kennedy, both in StL hats on gameday.
It wouldn’t be terribly unsurprising if the Rays didn’t bother giving him a new hat, come to think of it.
by liam on Mar 2, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Aren't the ST caps flexfit?
So, they could give him one, but it could still be used by another player…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 2, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just the BP hats
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Mar 2, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, no wagon wheels in ST games?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 2, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good to see
Barton getting some more at-bats. It will be tough to duplicate yesterday’s wind-aided effort, but I’d love to see him do it.
by bmorgan on Mar 2, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a typo
Skip Schumaker, career OF playing 2B
Joe Thurston, career IF playing LF
Still weird to look at
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Mar 2, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gameday Link
note to self: tba is the three letter code for the rays
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2009_03_02_tbamlb_slnmlb_1
will open in a new window
by mattybobo on Mar 2, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How are you finding the gameday link
How are you finding the Gameday link? I guess there is no radio today.
by Remember Kenny B on Mar 2, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually someone else on VEB found it
Can’t remember who it was though (anybody?)
But all you need to do is fill in the correct date in the URL and get the three-letter team codes correct, and I presume in the correct order. I honestly don’t know all the codes, and I happened upon “tba” mostly by luck.
by mattybobo on Mar 2, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the person who 'cracked' the link code
posts under the name ‘liam’…so it’s probably liam neeson, i suppose.
by fairweather_fan on Mar 2, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And that dude is busy
His daughter can be kidnapped, he can determine the identity and city they are from by a voice recording, fly to Paris, chew some bubblegum/kick some ass, and meet up with his contact all under ~17 hours.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Mar 2, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a terrible bother, really...
…he hasn’t done any good work in years, as a result of all fast paced spectacularity you’ve just outlined. thank gosh he still has time to crack the gameday link codes.
by fairweather_fan on Mar 2, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or go to the fanshots section
there is a recommended post that has the gameday links for this week
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 2, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it free?
As I recall, I did not pay to get Gameday last year. Are they charging for it now?
by Remember Kenny B on Mar 2, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gameday is free
no charge
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 2, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still not finding it.
Where is the fanshots section you are refering to?
by Remember Kenny B on Mar 2, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Underneath
the FanPosts along the right side of the page. Should be a recommended FanShot.
by spants on Mar 2, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's up above a little divider because it's recommended
Took me a second to find it, too.
Thanks again to liam for “programming” all those links.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I finally got it.
Anybody know why you cannot reach it through the Cardinal website like you used to be able to do?
by Remember Kenny B on Mar 2, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its spring training
MLB doesn’t want you actually seeing their product until they have everyone trained, and stuff. You’ll notice you don’t get all the information (pitch location, actual ball and strike calls now either). Liam just cracked the code so now we can see them all year long MUWHA HA
by cyko42 on Mar 2, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Encore, Encore!
Bravura writing, DanUp. Well-constructed, well-spoken. Always a pleasure to read your stuff.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 2, 2009 1:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Damn you
Adam Kennedy
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Mar 2, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
2 hits so far
dude is angry
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 2, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
funny thing is, he's says the same thing about TLR every morning
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Mar 3, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They seem to be hitting Wainwright pretty hard
Lot of line drives in the Gameday play-by-play.
by BTown Birds fan on Mar 2, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
2 be or please 2 be
would make me feel alot better about the year if the skippster can stick at 2nd, and if mather can play a respectable 3rd i wouldn’t mind keeping him up as well another right handed bat and keeps abats away from a weak hitting middle infielder.
Also some one not named jo-el as the 5th starter, i would feel much better.
"When the boogie man goes to sleep he checks his closet for Chuck Norris"
by elirock83 on Mar 2, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
triple for Barton
Ank still raking
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 2, 2009 2:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm pulling so damn hard for Barton
I love the guy and I think he’s a ML quality OF. I want him either on the club this year or traded for something as useful as I think he could be.
Go Astronaut go!
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the kid with the 'T' cup
and the baby appearing to reach for the bat are the best parts
by STLRegalia on Mar 2, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully disagree
The guy in the black shirt in the top right area is the funniest to me. He’s like, “Look at this motha****a gettin’ hit by a bat. Well ain’t that just the funniest thing I’ve seen all day.”
I also like the kid in the very bottom of the picture who’s looking off into the distance, totally oblivious.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When I first looked at the photo
all I thought was. “Ahh!!! That’s terrible! It looks like the bat is ripping his jaw off!!!”
I didn’t even notice the other people in the picture. Then I read your observations, went back to observe them myself. And I laughed for as long and as hard as I can remember in a long time. The guy in the black shirt had me cracking up for literally 5 minutes.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Mar 2, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the lady behind him...
apparently updating her scorecard. Right afterward you know she was clueless.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
by cardzfanbub on Mar 2, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is it a scorecard or a pizza?
I think she’s feeding herself, actually.
The baby wins the picture, though. That is priceless.
"i have a feeling the answers are bigger than the questions" -Dr Heyward Floyd
by SleepyCA on Mar 2, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That guy's a man's man
Didn’t even flinch
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Mar 2, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Barton would you stop being so awesome
This is getting kinda silly
by mattybobo on Mar 2, 2009 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How can a man change his nature?
I wanted to make a joke about astronauts and Barton’s play being the stratosphere, but it was just too damn awful.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Has Hawksworth really not thrown a ball today?
Wasn’t his problem control? So him throwing all strikes regardless of the outcome seems like a good thing to me.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Mar 2, 2009 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
he and waino keep getting all fly balls. only two groundouts between them, to nine flyouts.
pitch to contact indeed.
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if your going by gameday
They only count balls on walks (4)
3 strikes on strikes
and one pitch on balls in play. If your getting this from somewhere else then this is good news
by cyko42 on Mar 2, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
now that molina is playing for PR, are we going to see stavinoha behind the plate?
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 3:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh god I hope not
There are about 15,000 actual catchers in camp. Forget Big Grit.
I just don’t like Stav. He’s never seemed like he belongs anywhere but AAA to me.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
at this rate
the Cardinals are going to run out of outfielders. Which is exactly why TLR’s testing Thurston out there. He’s like four moves ahead of all of us.
by DanUpBaby on Mar 2, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jon Jay as setup man.
You thought about it for a minute, right? Tony is not beyond that at all.
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm one step ahead of you!
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Mar 2, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They say that hitting and pitching motions are similar, they're all about hip action
That’s what they say. They say that.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be like making that big trade
of an outfielder for a veteran reliever, Dan.
by mattybobo on Mar 2, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Should just convert Thurston to a starter and skipping the whole relieving thing too
Seriously our 2B is a converted OF, our CF is a converted starter, one closer candidate is a converted C, our fill in 3B is a converting OF, wtf is going on here.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Mar 2, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols 0-3
It’s all part of his master plan. go 0-fer so other teams are tempted to pitch to him.
by STLRegalia on Mar 2, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pull out the Manny bullshit story
Where he looks like an idiot on a pitch in ST so he can hit a homer when that pitcher gives him the same pitch sequence six months later.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Mar 2, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There was one guy who, in non-critical situations, used to strike out intentionally early in the game
So that he could manipulate what pitches he was more likely to get late in the game.
I think it was Wade Boggs.
At least that’s the legend. Don’t blame me if it’s all bull.
by mojowo11 on Mar 2, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going with Bull
If you’re good enough to do that, you’re good enough to hit whatever pitches are thrown at you later in the game especially when you strike out like 30 times a year. Plus the dude could drink himself silly if it didn’t work out.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Mar 2, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That story is hilarious
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Mar 2, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Than he sits back down
He is not showing the level he needs so far to make this team out of ST. Jon Jay is outplaying him by a large margin right now and he is not going to make the team regardless. Ankiel has been raking and so has Barton. The only thing helping him out is that Duncan has been playing horrible also.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Mar 2, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's always been
something of a slow starter.
by Toddius on Mar 2, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That may be...
but when you’ve got a month to make your statement starting slow’s not necessarily a good idea. Still, there’s like 30 ST games remaining.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
by cardzfanbub on Mar 2, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
just bring him up mid-season, if he’s not ready by then, not sure what to say.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 2, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not feeling the Raz is going north for opening day.
I still believe in him but he is getting out played by several other outfielders and Luds and Dunc probably have a free pass. He best hurry up and turn it up a notch.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
by Red Blazer on Mar 2, 2009 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Plenty of time left
29 more games (not counting two split squad games) with the extra week of ST this year for Colby to display a hot bat. Keep in mind too that Duncan has an option left and may need some time to work out his swing.
by ubeddie on Mar 2, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Dunc has a free pass
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Mar 2, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I'll bite
What is your rationale? Have you heard something?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Mar 2, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I get the feeling only 2 of our pitchers
are going North for opening day because the rest of them blow chunks.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 2, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crazy Tony!
I wouldn’t put it past him to go to a 2 man rotation
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Mar 2, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i heard he's just going to skip the rotation and go to an all-bullpen, all the time routine.
we’re going to have 6 position players and 19 relievers. The 6 position players will play all the games.Two of the relievers will field the corner-outfield spots. Unless they’re at second, because the second baseman is in right field. There will be six lefty-specialists, and tony plans on using at least 15 pitchers every game.
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had a teammate in college
who said that if he ran a team he would have all relievers for pitchers and pitch 5-9 of them a game and just keep cycling them through…made me wonder if it could work. and he was a starting pitcher, oddly enough
by STLRegalia on Mar 2, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't LaRussa
Have his pitchers on some crazy short pitch count for a while in Oakland?
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Mar 3, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
it was a piggyback rotation.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 3, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
can we put a sticky at the top of the home page saying,
“It’s only Spring Training and it’s still early”?
Nobody’s position has changed enough to mandate that they do anything after a handful of games in ST that they didn’t have to do this time last week.
FYI — in 2007, Anthony Reyes went 3-0 in Spring Training with a 0.56 ERA. Kip Wells finished out ST with a 1.16 ERA.
Remember how 2007 turned out for them? Yeah. A grand total of 20 AB’s is not the basis for anyone being concerned about anything.
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what?
5 games isn’t enough to get a read on everyone?
You can really tell it has been a long offseason when we are already worried about ST stats
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Mar 2, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if anyone is looking for a more rigorously made argument,
check out this report. The other bits of SB nation have some interesting stuff.
by tom s. on Mar 2, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope he's not going north to start and I've got 11.8 million reasons why
A while back Tom Verducci compared Cole Hamels and James Shields – two pitchers that have had remarkably similar careers in terms of performance. Only differences are Hamels got called up at May 12th compared to June 1 for Shields. He pitched in 2 games during that time and has thus gotten paid $11.8 million more of the real dollars than Shields has.
I’ll take Colby in June please.
By the way – I plan on reposting this very frequently for the next couple of months or until SI takes the article down.
by birdo rojo on Mar 2, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow - I really love my sentence construction there
I only hope all the English majors on here don’t lambaste me too badly.
The reason that Hamels is paid so much more is that he qualified for super 2 status and Shields did not.
by birdo rojo on Mar 2, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about
anyone else, but your link did not open an article from SI.com for me…
by cardsgirl95 on Mar 2, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry - Bad Link Above
I’m having all sorts of trouble today
Nothing like some accidental free press for Wash U.
by birdo rojo on Mar 2, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the reference
I was looking for that while making the exact same argument for Rasmus staying in Memphis for April.
“Calling up Rasmus and getting Glaus back is like trading for an All-Star and a rookie of the year candidate without having to give anything up!”
by liam on Mar 2, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AL was all over this blog yesterday
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Mar 3, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hamels is also considerably better......it's apples and oranges
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Mar 2, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Define Significantly
FIPs are pretty close and Fangraphs Value is also very close. I’d argue the vast majority of the $11.8Million is due to the super 2 status and only a little being that Hamels has performed better.
Year, FIP, Win Value – all from Fangraphs
Hamels
2006, 3.98, 2.6
2007, 3.83, 3.8
2008, 3.72, 4.6
Shields
2006, 4.39, 1.9
2007, 3.86, 4.4
2008, 3.82, 4.2
In total Hamels was worth a total of 0.5 more wins over the 3 years. I don’t think that’s equal to a $11.8M difference in pay.
by birdo rojo on Mar 2, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Hamels is a world series hero
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 2, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I forget how bad the Devil Rays (appropriate usage!) defense was
That said, Hamels still had a significant edge in an arbitration hearing with the ERA being half a point lower and the 15-5/got some Cy Young votes season on the books and bonus points for being hyped as a prospect coming up. Arbitration is messed up. Maybe not 11.8 mil different, but he still would’ve gotten more money if they had the same status.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Mar 2, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Phillies appear to have a lot of players
who’s value is much lower than perceived. Ryan Howard and Brad Lidge are considered to be great players because they are gods at racking up the two most meaningless stats in baseball, RBIs and Saves.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 3, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wins are even more meaningless than saves
I’m not sure I understand your argument re: Lidge. He racks up saves, but he’s awesome while doing it. His slider is one of the filthiest pitches in the league (except when he hangs it to Albert). Naturally, the saves pile up.
Similarly with wins. The difference between a mediocre pitcher winning 12 and 14 games in a year is the bullpen and offense. But if a guy wins 30 games in a year, you know he’s a good pitcher, because in order to do that you have to overcome bullpen and offense shortcomings time and time again.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Mar 4, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you know
i think you could make an argument that RBI’s and saves ARE important stats, for a TEAM. They are just too context-dependant to try to use them to say one player is better than another.
Same with wins, to a lesser extent.
"i have a feeling the answers are bigger than the questions" -Dr Heyward Floyd
by SleepyCA on Mar 6, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cole Hamels was called up on my 22nd birthday?
Sweet.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Mar 2, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The comparison really isn't that close though...
Shields signed his deal after 2 years, Hamels 3.
The earlier you buy it out, the better deal a club gets, generally.
And let’s not forget that he was also the World Series MVP and is two years younger than Shields. Hardly minor things. Not to mention he’s not playing for a stingy club, either.
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
by DiscoJer on Mar 3, 2009 4:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the phils record of getting taken for player-friendly deals is ridiculous.
see eaton, adam.
by tom s. on Mar 3, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Llobos on the Closers
Larry Borrowski was on the Closers show today. The show is a local (Columbia) sports show. Apparently, Larry is doing well in his Maple Street endeavor, and I wish him the best of luck on it. It was fun to hear his commentary on the Cards. And the show mentioned VEB.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Mar 2, 2009 7:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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