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CN Approval Ratings: Kyle Lohse

Today's subject is a little different than the past three.  (In case you want to see the results of the prior voting, you can check out the sidebar over at my blog.)  The last three have been long-time Cardinals, while Kyle Lohse is a more recent addition.

So how do you rate him?  Do you give him extra credit for pitching well under a cheap contract?  Do you knock him down for his new contract, plus that he's a Boras client?  Where does he fall in your estimation, between 0 and 100?

2 recs  |  Comment 30 comments

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Comments

Display:

70

He almost single-handedly kept us in the playoff picture last year whilst Wainwright was out injured, and I think he’ll probably continue to be what he is – the not-quite-as-good-as-he-looked-in-2008 no.3/4 starter.

You have to take some points off for that ridiculous contract but, hey, you can’t really blame the guy for taking it, especially after he got screwed (contract-wise) last year whilst stiffs like carlos silva were rolling it in.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Mar 10, 2009 9:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

70

and +1 to all of this.

7 OFs, 3 OF spots. Hmm...

by nycbirdo on Mar 10, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

70

Again, gotta credit his year last year, but I don’t see the Cardinals getting everything out of the contract they gave him. He’s a pretty good option for a number 3 starter.

by WyoCardsFan on Mar 10, 2009 9:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

85

IMO, scoring Lohse is complicated. His record with the Cardinals is brief at best. In his one year of service, he turned out monster numbers. But that was only one year.

I think Lohse will be much easier to score AFTER 2009. Then we will have two years of service, and we can see how he works under a long-term contract.

BUT… if we are judging him strictly on what he’s done, I think my score is fair. Remember, last year he went 15-6, 200IP, and a Sub 4.00 ERA. I mean, seriously, what more do you want from a #3 Starter???

by JWO on Mar 10, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

85

well said

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Mar 10, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

65

He was pitching for his professional future last year, which is a good way to induce better performance and focus. Now, can he do it when he’s guaranteed $41M over the next four years? We shall see.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Mar 10, 2009 10:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

75%

As much guff as the guy gets for his contract I dont think he personally deserves it. If your going to put that burden on anyones sholders put it on mo’s… The guy was homeless, and we picked him up for almost nothing and he performed realy well… The only thing I will be judging him this year is if he can repeat last years numbers. If he can, then my approval will skyrocket….

by mr banana grabber on Mar 10, 2009 10:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

65%

If it were based off of last year alone, I’d give him more like an 85-90% because the production we got for him at that price was great. Now, the only way he can be worth what we are paying him is if he continues to pitch that well, or possibly a little better. I just don’t see it happening. He’ll regress slightly this year, but still be an acceptable 3-4 starter. But as he gets older, and his contract gets more expensive, I think we will see a sharp decline in productivity from Mr. Lohse.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Mar 10, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

74.38%

I was close on Ank, off by 1.03%. And yes C70, I want the results to look like this.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Mar 10, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just to be snarky

you can’t add up/average/divide a bunch of rational numbers to get an irrational one. You’d need to throw in something like 23π %

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Mar 10, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quit using Math and Logic

Those things give me a headache. And it works just fine if you take into account that I am irrational, thus any number I put up is an irrational one.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Mar 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's like a better version of Suppan, Looper, etc.

I think Lohse is a good competitor and know how to paint the zone. for this, my approval rating is pretty high, 85%. it would be higher if a) we would have paid him less or b) he was a better pitcher. still, I think he’s a bit of a good luck charm, and a great #3 type pitcher.

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 10, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

68%

I was thinking 65-70 when I first clicked on the thread and from what everyone’s written, I’m thinking it still seems right.

He’s a good player, and I definitely approve of what he’s done for us so far. He’s no ace, but he’s a good #3 starter, and if he continues to be a good #3 starter, then our rotation has a chance to keep us in the race with a healthy Carp and Wainer (I know, lots of conditions put on this statement).

by mtalken on Mar 10, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

82

"Statistics mean nothing to the individual"
"You are what you eat and you clearly went out and devoured a big fat guy"

by jacksonian on Mar 10, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

74%

i’m very afraid the first half of last season tricked the Cards into another extension they shouldn’t have done.

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Mar 10, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm gonna give him a 90%

Although, check with me after next year and it change significantly.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Mar 10, 2009 4:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hmm... tough one...

I will give him an 82.5. He had a nice year in 08 and stepped up in an aceless organization. And yes, “aceless” is a new word invented and copyrighted (I hope) by Paulspike and its use is prohibited without the written consent by Paulspike Co. Anyhow, he pitched alright and was a steal for the Cards last season. Its nice to hear the story of Lohse that had no job by this point last year and how he turned out to be… alright. However, there are many uncertainties regarding Kyle and is hefty contract. SO… 82.5 :D

Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!

by Paulspike on Mar 10, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

70

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Mar 10, 2009 6:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

100

I typically downgrade any Boras client, but in this case, I think signing Lohse to a big contract could allow Boras to let Ankiel take a bigger hometown discount, which would then offset the current contract (that is if the Cards decide to re-sign Ankiel). Depending on how that situation plays out greatly affects Lohse’s rating, but for now, 100. The guy was a solid #3 and basically gave the Cards a chance to win every time he took the mound, which is all I can really ask.

by Jumsy on Mar 10, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So....

Lohse signing a big contract is more likely to make Ankiel take a smaller one?!?

What, are they common-law partners or something?

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Mar 11, 2009 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not at all...

Sometimes agents will work package deals with their clients behind the scenes. I’m just saying showing the good will toward Lohse on his contract may result in a return of good will from Boras if Ankiel wants to take less money to stay in St. Louis. We all know Boras generally drives his clients to the $ he has in mind, so maybe he lets Ankiel play for less because he already got his cut in the Lohse deal.

by Jumsy on Mar 11, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

do you have ANY evidence of this ever happening, ever?

“Sometimes agents will work package deals with their clients behind the scenes.”

well, if they did, whichever player ended up getting bargained down to lower money would have an open-and-shut claim against his agent for breach of fiduciary duty. the resulting judgment against boras might exceed his commission on both contracts – not to mention the fact that if this were ever discovered, the agent would never have another client again and would probably be banned outright. in other words, i don’t think this actually happens.

obviously, and especially in the case of a guy like boras who is so widely viewed as a pain in the ass, a good working relationship is better and more conducive to any future deals being reached than a bad working relationship. but that’s a hell of a lot different from what you’re saying, which is, psst, give me an extra $5 mil on lohse, and you can take it off my tab when we get to ank.

7 OFs, 3 OF spots. Hmm...

by nycbirdo on Mar 11, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's called "unethical."

screwing rick ankiel to get a deal for kyle lohse is called unethical and probably illegal.

the ethics of repping two guys competing for the same spots is dubious, but generally accepted. selling out one client to help another is not ambiguous: it’s unethical.

by tom s. on Mar 11, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

80%

Lohse was a definite surprise last season, and played a lot better than I thought he would. Hopefully the elder Duncan and TLR can continue to help him out and make him a good pitcher. I’m a little nervous given that he signed a 4 year $41 mil deal in the offseason, but I think he’ll do alright.

Welcome to Baseball Heaven.

by zoomzoomj88 on Mar 10, 2009 6:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

73%

He has a contract that ought to go with a #2 starter. He pitched that way last year, but that was the first time in his career. As far as I can tell, he carries himself well and did not mope over his contract situation all last year. I generally think well of him, but I have to grade him lower than I gave Ankiel.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Mar 10, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

in his defence

And I DO believe 2008 may end up being his career year, but the improvements he made last year were “real”. He dropped his BB rate significantly and generated more ground balls, which lead to a reduction in his HR/9. There’s a reasonable argument that he’ll be somewhere near that level of production in 2009 if he can just do what he did again. He wasn’t lucky on balls in play or HR/FB or anything.

Last 7 years he has been worth an average of 2.34 wins/yr, and we’re paying him (at the going rate when contract was signed) as a 2 win player (albeit in his age 30-34 seasons) so given his “real” improvement in repeatable skills in 08 there’s an argument to be made that it’s not a bad deal. However, it’s not an argument I’ll be making – he could’ve been had for one less year and quite a few less $. Even 3/30 would’ve been fine I reckon.

Because chicks dig the intentional base on balls.

by Felonius_Monk on Mar 11, 2009 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure about his improvement

Although he did improve his traditional controllable skills (HR, BB, K, HBP), he was still pretty lucky last year. He only had a .303 BABIP despite over a 22% line drive rate. His TRA (which measures the quality of batted balls allowed in addition to other controllable skills) was below league average last year. However, even by TRA, he was a 1.7 WAR player, so the contract still isn’t overpaying him by that much.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Mar 11, 2009 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Results

Lohse comes in with a 77.3 (or, for some posters, a 77.25371429) average with 35 opinions being registered.

by Cardinal70 on Mar 11, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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