Cards release Kennedy
by Lloyd Burruss on Feb 9, 2009 1:56 PM EST
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The Joe Thurston era begins now!
The Cardinals have abruptly reversed course, releasing second baseman Adam Kennedy and declaring an open competition for the position, the Post-Dispatch has learned.
The move, apparently made at the strong urging of manager Tony La Russa, represents a 180-degree shift from the position staked out by the club in December after failing to find a trade partner for the veteran second baseman. <!-- _RM_EMPTY_ is to be sent from third party server --> <!-- begin ad tag--> <!-- End ad tag -->
The Cardinals assume Kennedy’s $4 million salary for the upcoming season; Kennedy becomes a free agent.
Monday’s move creates an open competition for the position, barring a trade or free agent signing. Brendan Ryan, Brian Barden, Tyler Greene, Joe Thurston, Jarrett Hoffpauir and Skip Schumaker are considered the front-runners should the club promote from within. Ryan leads the group with 377 major-league at-bats in parts of two seasons with the Cardinals.
Even after general manager John Mozeliak designated Kennedy as this year’s starter, La Russa found it difficult to embrace the arrangement.
Kennedy requested the team trade him shortly after it signed infielder Felipe Lopez last August following his release from the Washington Nationals. When the Cardinals failed to re-sign Lopez and non-tendered infielder Aaron Miles, Kennedy appeared to be unchallenged at the position. La Russa, however, saw an ongoing potential for a camp distraction.
Kennedy, who originally signed a three-year, $10 million contract in December 2006, hit .280 with two home runs and 36 RBI last season. He appeared in 115 games, including 84 at second base. Hoping to increase his trade value, La Russa played him 10 games in the outfield in September.
In June, Kennedy also started at first base for the first time in his major-league career.
The club is also expected to add two pitchers to its list of invitees to camp later today.
Monday’s flurry of activity occurred as free agent Braden Looper, 12-14 while pitching 199 innings for the Cardinals last season, prepared to sign a one-year contract with the division rival Milwaukee Brewers.
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schumaker
going to get the job? if la russa’s really behind this i would put money on it. opens up a spot for rasmus at least.
I can't help but...
think this is going to be good and bad… the financial side of me is seeing a wasted 4 mil… but the optimistic irrational emotional side is seeing skip with maybe 450AB .300AVG 15-20HRs 65RBI’s at the top of the lineup… maybe… maybe?
It's not what you do, It's who you do...
yeah, I'm with Luke
15 home runs and 60 RBI is a stretch for Skip.
.300 Avg, 5 HRs and 40 RBI might be an optimistic, yet realistic view.
If Rasmus gets 450 AB and pulls 15 HR and 65 RBI, I’d be ecstatic, and I’m giving him a much higher ceiling this year than Schu.
That is basically what he did last year
If he is platooned against lefties, than he could easily hit those marks.
vivaelbeñsheets
If Skip is platooned exclusively against lefties
he would hit 15 home runs? Is that what you’re saying?
Or were you stating that a .300, 5 HR, 40 RBI would be easily hit in a platoon situation?
I sure hope that it’s the latter….because Skip hit exactly 8 dingers in 594 plate appearances last season.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I was talking about the .300, 5 HR, 40 RBI
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 10, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
It wouldn't surprise me
if the stress of playing a new position causes a significant regression in Skip’s offensive numbers.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
He had more way more than 450 AB last year
He had the second most AB on the team last year with 540. I don’t think giving him an everyday job would lower that number by 100. Also I think somewhere between 10-15 HR’s would be attainable for him.
I guess he would bat 1st 2nd or 9th most of the time.
they had to pay ak one way or another
so tlr wanted ak gone bad enough to accept a totally unproven ml player as a starter at 2nd. that’s a pretty big deal for tlr
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
????????????????????????????
Ok I just dont get this one. I dont get it at all. We dont want to pay 4 million for a backup but we will pay 4million to sit on his butt???? i dont get it. at all.
Aaron Miles is worth it.
It's a move based on current available players in the organization
Add a backup @ $4 million + Kennedy @ $4 million, and you’ve got $8 million. The club tried like heck to trade him and got zero takers. They held out on some kind of return, but nothing happened. I commend the team for throwing down. I guess they figure they’ve got options for 2b that are better than Kennedy that won’t really cost them more than they’d already be paying. OR, it could be a move to clear room to add to the roster… hmm…
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Here's to doing the same thing with...
Pinata (if Carp is healthy) at the end of the Spring.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
no
I will be beyond pissed if this team throws away 11M+ this offseason, yet can’t find that kind of money to go after a premium-ish FA
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
it's a sunk cost
they can’t get the money back, whatever they do. Or, more precisely, it’s money that has already been pissed away, whether pineiro pitches or not, so if they have someone who is likely to pitch better than pineiro available they should go with him instead.
"young pitchers will break your heart". -sam rich
You wouldn't be more pissed if we have to cut Thompson loose...
because he’s out of options? I hate the idea of forcing a guy on your roster JUST because of his salary. Sometimes you just gotta cut bait.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
yeah, maybe I didn't state that right
I wouldn’t be upset with Piniero being cut loose, I would be shaking my head if after that they said they didn’t have the cash to go after a SP
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
but they wouldn't....
because that 11M is already gone.
There’s nothing that can happen to get that money back. Pineiro and any other free agent we could’ve signed are unrelated.
Agreed.
Kennedy was just money spent badly. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but he was a Jocketty signing. Kennedy, with an overly kind 3 year deal, theoretically brought stability to 2b, but also blocked prospects and potential. The Mo regime doesn’t hand out contracts like that: See Izturis, K. Greene. It’s about player development, value, and limiting long-term pay to either cost control (ala Wainwright) or superior performance (Pujols). The Cardinal new build-a-team model is not one based on free agency (wherefor art though, “Sign Ben Sheets” supporters?) unless that free agent presents value AND predictable performance. There’s really no sense in overpaying for a veteran only to watch him depreciate. Unless, of course, you want to watch Griffey Jr. hit occassional home runs or Randy Wolff work toward an ERA of 6. Or, unless you’re the NY Yankees.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Don't be shocked if the Lohse contract...
looks a bit like the Kennedy signing in a couple of years. Blocking prospects, etc…
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
what prospects did AK block?
MAYBE brendan ryan, but ryan hadn’t had a healthy season yet when AK was signed.
"young pitchers will break your heart". -sam rich
Only Piñeiro is at least another mop-up guy in the 'pen that you don't have to sign
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
that was what I was thinking
now I just have to convince myself that a mop-up guy is worth ~7M
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
The move makes sense
You’re not really paying him $4M to sit on his ass. You’re paying him $4M to go away, similar to the Edmonds trade. Now, assuming we don’t pay more for a 2B on the open market, we have the same payroll. However, if Skip has already been working at 2B and can handle it, you upgrade offensively there and hopefully don’t lose much defensively (although inevitably a bit due to inexperience). That opens up the opportunity for replacing Skip w/ Rasmus, giving the Cards 3 guys in the outfield every day who can hit the cover off the ball (Ludwick, Ankiel, and Rasmus, w/ Mather as the 4th outfielder).
And now we don’t have to worry about how many AB’s an unhappy Kennedy will take from younger, hungrier, more-talented options.
by thecardinallaw on Feb 9, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
who, pray tell, are these more talented options of which you speak?
Kennedy, for all his faults, was worth about one win, one and a half wins above a replacement. I don’t see anybody who projects as better than replacement value. some guys have potential but haven’t gotten much of a chance in the majors, as well as some major limitations: Barden, Tyler Greene. Some guys have gotten a chance but have kinda screwed the pooch: Ryan, Thurston. Some guys are just out of nowhere and we have no way of predicting what they’ll do: Schumaker.
Of course, any one of these guys could show up and grow into the position. Or all of them could suck. It is certainly not true that if you throw a mix of mildly talented individuals at a single position, one of them MUST stick (see: Cardinals starting rotation, 2007). Attitude aside, we may well have given away our best 2b and gotten nothing for it.
I imagine there’s more to the story, but it’s a bit glib to say we’re just clearing out the dead wood here to let younger, more talented folks play.
Upside.....
Perhaps those players have limitations, but so did Kennedy, and we KNOW Kennedy’s limitations. He’s played enough seasons and he’s on the downslope.
Barden and Greene, while they have limitations, are in a far different situation. And heck, since they’re still on the rise, what are their limitations? Are you sure those are limitations or simply that they haven’t developed fully yet?
My guess is we would have all said Ludwick had limitations before last season too, but he was a .900 OPS guy.
of course, all limitations are the same.
I’ve got limitations, troy glaus has limitations. so i must play 3b just as well as glaus.
anybody want to point me to anything that says that ryan/barden/thurston/t. greene/schumaker are actually likely to play better than a replacement when taking both offense and defense into consideration?
i said so too...
i’m basically just adding skip at second to my growing list of if/thens (if carp is healthy, if greene returns to 07 form, if waino is healthy, etc etc) for how the cards manage to reclaim the central.
that being said, i wouldn’t be at all surprised if the cardinals sign somebody in the nxt couple of days.
by thecardinallaw on Feb 9, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
i also would be even less surprised if the cards do not sign someone
in the next couple of days.
by thecardinallaw on Feb 9, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
but the point is, we didn't have to have an "if."
we could have held onto Kennedy through ST and watched how his potential replacements played. We could have allowed a potential replacement to get PA’s and play in the field WITH KENNEDY ON THE BENCH as insurance during the season. it’s not like we got anything (money, prospects, etc.) for dfaing kennedy. there was no rush to dump him.
if the youngsters succeeded, we could have dfa’d kennedy in march or may or june and lost nothing. if the youngsters failed, we would still have a +1 win, +1.5 win 2b. now, we have nothing to do if the youngsters fail but play a failing youngster.
and the rationale is not that kennedy would take time away from a valuable youngster. if there’s one vet that tony has shown NO reluctance to replace in the field, it’s kennedy.
giving chances to young people = good
needlessly removing your predictable backup plan for no benefit = bad
the only benefit anybody can claim here is that kennedy will not sit around oozing bad clubhouse karma. i guess if you buy into that, then good for you. it seems like superstition to me.
mo says no
2b will come from within
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
I disagree with your point here.
we could have held onto Kennedy through ST and watched how his potential replacements played. We could have allowed a potential replacement to get PA’s and play in the field WITH KENNEDY ON THE BENCH as insurance during the season. it’s not like we got anything (money, prospects, etc.) for dfaing kennedy. there was no rush to dump him.
- If he’s still around, he’s getting playing time in spring training and taking it away from one of the potential replacements. This way the replacement guys play as much as possible in the spring and we see what hand we’ve been dealt with them. If they all stink in the spring there will still be some “low-hanging fruit” at the position to go after via FA or trade.
- There should have been more of the rush to dump him, imo. The longer he’s a free agent, the more likely a team will pick him up as a free agent, forcing us to pay less of his salary in ’09. By cutting him before the spring we allow him to try and find a team to go to camp with and win a job, thus paying the minimum salary of our possible replacement by recouping the minimum salary that Kennedy will make with his new team.
if the youngsters failed, we would still have a +1 win, +1.5 win 2b. now, we have nothing to do if the youngsters fail but play a failing youngster.
That’s assuming that he repeats his stellar defense from last year, which was a full win better than his career average. If you put Skip there with atrocious defense and his offensive number projection, as RJ did over at FanGraphs today, and Kennedy regresses to his career average defense with the same offense he has last year, Skip is worth 0.87 wins and Kennedy is worth 0.70 wins. We get Skip at the top of our lineup and a much better hitting outfielder (Rasmus, Mather), it’s a big win for us.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
you don't have to go to fangraphs because chuckb did the same thing
in his main post the other day. and he did it without introducing a rather enormous assumption. And he found that there’s about 1.5 wins between the two of them, assuming that skip’s defense would be -15 runs.
From RJ’s post:
CHONE projects his bas to be worth 0.2 runs while Marcels says 0.9 runs. Let’s be generous and assume Schumaker’s 2008 offense would repeat, 6 runs above average.
So, if we ignore all of the projections and assume Skip didn’t have a career year, and we ignore Kennedy’s good though not exceptional year, we can make up a case where skip is good and kennedy isn’t. Kennedy for the record has only once been worth less than one win – in 2007 when he was injured.
Sorry, I can justify any transaction by assuming that the favored player will repeat his career year and the disfavored player will have the second worst year of his life.
For instance, let’s be generous and assume Randy Wolf will have a great year again, just like he did last year – a 2.0 win season. and let’s assume that adam wainwright will continue to decline from injuries and age from his performance of 2.3 wins last year. See! They’re the same player!
you make it sound like
skip massively out-performed expectations last year. But he didn’t, really. Before the season I said he was a .750 OPS player, and he ended up with what, a .765? If that’s a “career year”, it’s not much of a career. Especially since he had a .816 (111 OPS+) in a partial 2007. He’s not a 111 OPS+ player; he was lucky in 2007, but 2008 was right in line with what we should expect from skip, and he’s got the potential to be “lucky” again and put up another .800ish or so season.
And Skip will be 29; kennedy will be 33. I think it’s a lot safer to assume that a guy’s performance will stay the same or improve slightly going from age 28 to age 29, than it is to assume a guy who is 33 is going to bounce back after 3 declining years. A repeat of last year is probably the BEST you could hope for from Kennedy.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
skip's offensive projections for wRAA for next year are:
Chone: 0.2
Bill James: -4.7
Marcel: 0.9
Oliver: -4.7
Fourstick said "if you put Skip there with atrocious defense and his offensive number projection, as RJ did over at FanGraphs today. . . " I just pointed out that the number used for Skip in the article (+6) is nothing close to any actual projection.
Sure, if you look at Skip’s offense, he could improve by several runs and be valuable. and maybe he will. and maybe he will play adequate defense. okay. and I would definitely agree that the best we can expect is a repeat of 2008 from kennedy.
but i never said testing skip out is stupid. all i said was that it was better to hold on to adam as a backup.
again, if we hold onto adam, and the kids do well, then we’re good. if we hold onto adam and the kids don’t do well, then we still have an okay 2b. if we let adam go and the kids don’t do well, we’re stuck.
Projections aren't usually the best way to guage players like Schu
He is a 29 year old OF coming off of his first full season. Most projection systems are going to be biased towards a player like that. Same with Ludwick, as you can see by his
(relatively) pitiful projections.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 10, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ludwick's projections aren't that low
they’re certainly lower than his performance last year, and lower than most here expect him to hit, but they’re really pretty good. I’ll grant that players w/ longer track records than his and Skip’s are more likely to end up w/ more favorable projections, but that’s b/c history is on the side of players who’ve performed consistently as compared to those who’ve performed once.
I also pointed out something else
That there’s a lot better chance of Skip repeating his performance with the bat than there is of Kennedy repeating his performance with the glove at age 33. He was a 2 win player on defense alone last year, but his career average is about 1 win on defense. Even if Skip is a 1.5 – 2 win player with the bat, he still has a chance to outperform Kennedy even though he might be worth -1 to -1.5 wins with the glove.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
perfectly said!!
The offense just improved by this move. Let the young guns play so we can compete in a couple of years. We are not going for it this year….look at the lack of big moves and the closer that we didn’t sign. We are building for the future and Kennedy wasn’t apart of that plan. It may be difficult to watch this year but we have to be positive about the future…..sounds like a cub fan doesn’t it. I guess we going to build from within like Minnesota, it can work it just takes more time than we are used waiting. Could be a rough couple of years looking up at the cubs..
"For those about to Rock..." lets play Skip at 2b
by sheets in cardinal red on Feb 9, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
the difference
is that this move was not made as an attempt to promote a prospect. Jarrett Hoffpauir is not going to get much of a chance to win the job. Thurston, perhaps, but he’s no prospect and isn’t that young. He’s a AAAA player who’s moved from organization to organization after being a top prospect several years ago. Ditto Barden — although never a top prospect. Tyler Greene — he won’t cut it. Skip’s an OF. It’s not like our 2B of the future was waiting in the wings and just got his chance to make his mark.
yeah, when we talk about these guys, they're 27, 28, 29.
greene is the youngest, i believe. the likelihood that at this late date they’ll suddenly come into their own far from a sure thing.
+1
Another good point to throw out there is that now we will be able to see who can play at the major league level and step up for 2010. Unless, of course, we trade for Brian Roberts.
Or
Trade for Uggla, sign Hudson, plenty of scenarios, though none of them very likely. Mo has something up his sleeve…
i put this in the main thread, but just to avoid endless speculation about trades.
goold tweets from Mo the intent is to fill the position “from within the organization.”
why don't we just fill the position with out best option at 2b?
Adam Kennedy.
Oh, wait.
On with the (good) youth movement!
I am shocked
A complete release? At this point? I was never a Kennedy fan, but this actually angers me. I feel bad for him. Best of luck, Adam.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
I'm pretty shocked, too
I’m going to await the organization’s input before getting mad, but this really blew me away.
I suspect Tony wouldn’t guarantee Kennedy a job and Kennedy said, “I want to start, or just release me so I can play somewhere else.”
Who knows, though. This honestly has knocked my proverbial socks off.
I'm glad I'm not the only one.
This completely caught me off guard.
I guess I can’t say whether or not I support this or not yet, we’ll have to see the starting lineup opening day.
by Beware the Molinas on Feb 9, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
again maybe im dumb....
but within two weeks of Spring training, do you do this? even for the sake of AK, thats not fair to him. very unprofessional. i have no clue. this is so cheap, what happen to being aggressive!
Aaron Miles is worth it.
Well when you're eating 4 mil I wouldn't say that it's cheap....
This isn’t a hotstove thread but O Hudson is still attainable especially of the Cards don’t pick up any starting pitching :-/
Polanco and Roberts could also be available because of their 2010 free agent status via trade.
FWIW I hope that Skip can make the switch (unrealistic? maybe) but he is only 28, and should/could be hitting his prime, if we got 3 good years of .300 hitting, 10 home runs and 50 RBI’s that’s pretty comparable with a slight drop off in OBP, SB and OPS to this guy
I loves me some
Placido…
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
i would
rather go after roberts than hudson. if you sign hudson you give up a 1st rounder. If you get Roberts you gain a 1st rounder if you cant re-sign him.
but you trade several good prospects
in order to get him. Hudson costs significantly less. Durham, not much worse than Hudson would cost even less.
Anybody know specifically why Tony hated this guy (besides the dumb winter warp up thing)?
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Feb 9, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions
First it was Glaus
With the suddden need for surgery and now this. Time to throw a tent over this circus. I guess it gives us something to talk about.
And I say England's greatest prime minister was Lord Palmerston.
Moved from another diary:
by ajmueller1 on Feb 9, 2009 1:39 PM CST
As I hope all of you have seen, the Birds have just granted 2B Adam Kennedy his unconditional release. Meaning that he is now an unrestriced free agent, may sign with any team, and the Cardinals are on the hook for the remaining of his 3-year, 4million per year contract. I wish the best for Kennedy, he is an upstanding player who unforuntetly never found his bat once he switched to the NL. However, this now leaves 2B up for grabs between a number of candidates, including, but not excluding; Joe Thurston (once-coveted prospect extraordinaire), Brian Barden, Brendan “why happened to 2007” Ryan, and I think the most intriquing candidate, Skip Schumacker. Kennedy’s release cannot have been based on ONLY the fact that they could not move him. Clearly, I think, there has to be more to the story or they would have released him 2 months ago. They (Birds FO) are disclosing an injury, have a massive amount of faith in the organizations depth (which I do not doubt), or merely this is another case of an obsessed fan looking too much into this. Either way I am hoping for Skip to Win the Job out of ST09!
I have to agree...
…in that there has to more to the story. Kennedy’s been saying all the right things, and he’s even been helping Skip get acquinted with 2B. The release comes completely out of the blue. The Cardinals have no true starting second baseman now, and they have Kennedy’s $4 million sitting on the sidelines instead of paying for a player who can contribute defensively if not completely offensively. That doesn’t make any kind of sense. If they had a good prospect like Rasmus or even Freese looking for a chance at the majors, maybe I could understand this (no matter the public statements, Kennedy may really have wanted out, job or no job), but Thurston, Barden, and Ryan aren’t that kind of young player. Unless Mo is really that hot for Tyler Greene.
Just completely weird. Especially the timing of it.
ray durham
will be signed by tommorow
Countdown to world series #11
263 days
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 9, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
This wouldn't surprise me, actually
Nor would it disappoint me. I honestly think Durham would be better this year than Kennedy, especially if he can play the role of most-of-the-time-starter, which should help him stay healthier (theoretically).
Multi-tasking with the MLB Network on the A-Rod stuff. Crazy day in baseball.
Per MLBTR
Durham rejected a minor league contract offer from the Nationals worth around 850K
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
we couldn't even get a Pedromo out of this really?
if we are assumming the whole contract we might as well get something for him.
Countdown to world series #11
263 days
According to Strauss...
…LaRussa wanted him gone. Good lord, Tony.
And, of course, that's in the opening post.
Gotta learn to read more.
I'm looking forward to
a Thurston/Barden platoon.
I don’t understand the decision to cut AK#7 loose, but I can’t complain about it. If he hadn’t lucked into high BABIPs all but one month of last season, we’d all be praising Mo’s comprehensive understanding of sunk costs.
Its probably to give rasmus #7
thats the reason behind this
Countdown to world series #11
263 days
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 9, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
that has to be it
this means Ras makes the team out of ST. You don’t give a guy a single digit uni and not keep him on the team
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
I think I read somewhere..
that Rasmus is wearing #28 in Spring Training
....my quick smells like french toast...
Lunacy
Maybe I’m crazy, too, but I really think this is clearing a spot for Schu to win the second base job. Tony has proved time and time again that he can’t resist shoving a square peg in a round hole until it somehow fits. The timing here is so awful that it’s made me feel bad for Adam Kennedy, a guy who I really was hoping wouldn’t be at second base this season anyways.
Not Lunacy
I trust Tony on this one. Don’t underestimate the effects of a toxic player in the clubhouse as well as underestimating Schumaker’s skills at 2nd. The guy is obviously a better athlete than Kennedy and he’s played the position before. Don’t forget that we have Jose Oquendo to coach this guy into a secondbaseman also. The third factor is Skip’s attitude, which is a major plus. I am super excited to see what happens at 2b this year for the first time in a long time. This is the perfect solution to an outfield surplus, maybe even worth the 3.7 million that we have to pay of AKs salary after he signs a league minimum contract. Now we just have to make sure that we det our our outfield surplus signed on (Ankiel and Ludwick).
by aaron_notmiles on Feb 9, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'd love for it to work
So by the power of positive thinking or positive drinking, I’ll make it work. But the timing really does puzzle me.
The more I read into it...
The more I think this might be a great idea… Skip not only played 2b, but 3b in college… He has the bat, some experience, the attitude, the opportunity, and it increases our options in other positions… lets just hope it plays out!
It's not what you do, It's who you do...
If Skip can successfully transition to 2nd...
he has a lot to thank Mo and TLR for. He will go from (at best) a platoon OFer who would never get a long term contract to possibly one of the 10 best at his position in all of baseball.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
I wonder if anyone has done that....
Ankiel went from pitcher to OFer. But has any OFer gone from that to 2Ber? (I know Biggio went from C to 2B to OF)
I know apparently it’s happening, but I’m dubious that a guy who hasn’t played the infield since what, he was 18 or 19, and then SS, can suddenly play a position like 2B. Which is fairly complicated, turning the double play and all that.
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
read
yesterday’s main post. This decision is absolutely indefensible unless you anticipate that Skip is going to provide AT LEAST league average defense at 2B. The notion that this might actually occur is beyond bizarre. He hasn’t played 2B in what…8-10 years and he’s going to pop in one day and be a league average defender at the keystone? Lunacy! Skip’s attitude and Oquendo’s coaching is going to turn him into a league average defender? It simply won’t happen and, by the way, Kennedy’s “attitude” would have improved w/ the playing time the best 2B on the roster would have warranted.
If this move is made to add Grudzielanek, Hudson, or Durham, it is defendable. If it’s meant to open a spot for Skip Schumaker, it is insane! And, frankly, detrimental to the team!
by chuckb on Feb 9, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
yes, but Schu to 2B puts
Lud and Ank to the corners and gives Colby a shot at CF.
Getting rid of AK b/c TLR doesn’t like him doesn’t make a lot of sense, but it’s not like it ruins the teams chances. thurston, barden, and ryan all project to be about what kennedy was worth, which is about zilch anyway.
i sorta think this is much ado about nothing. crasnick said the cards called and asked durham if he’d be interested in backing up kennedy, so i would think they’ll call again, unless schu is red schoendiest at the keystone.
I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9
Me too
This move taken in isolation gives a lot of C+ prospects a shot. Odds are one of them can replicate what Kennedy was going to do. Have to find out which one it is though. I don’t really think the Schumaker thing will work. If it does it means the farm system really mismanaged him, but would be a great development nonetheless. I’m not holding my breath. But even if that is destined to flame out, something internal could well work. If it doesn’t you may still have the Ray Durhams of the world to tap on the shoulder. If that option isn’t there you still have an outfield surplus that can serve to fill the need. Testing Schumaker at least indicates they are trying to leverage their strengths, and it also indicates the trade market for our outfielders isn’t great right now. All it takes is an injury or 2, or an Andruw Jones type flameout somewhere, or whatever, and that changes.
There are a lot of cards that Mo holds up his sleeve. None are aces, but Kennedy was probably about a 6 of clubs himself anyway, at best. Throwing everything against the wall doesn’t inspire confidence. It can be an ugly process to resolve, and it puts a premium on Mo’s abilities to acquire the right piece and Tony’s ability to use it. It can work out for the best – it just depends how long it takes to sift through people to find a solution.
by Merry CRasmus on Feb 9, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, erik
you know as well as I do that (in fact, better than I) that Rasmus is simply a better player than Skip and should earn a starting job regardless of whether Skip is playing 2B or is pitching middle relief. Ludwick, Ankiel, and Rasmus will be our 3 best OFs and deserve to be out there so I simply disagree that this “opens a spot for Rasmus.” The fact that he’s better than Skip should be enough to open that spot regardless Skip’s official position.
that's the way it should be in the real world
but we’re talking about Tony world
I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9
by erik on Feb 9, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if they are sinking costs
maybe they can release schumaker too.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 10, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
Counterpoint...
do we need to rush to sign one of these guys? Surely one of them will be sitting around in March after at least a couple of weeks with Skip/Barden/Greene getting some time at the keystone. Maybe this isn’t a counter point.?
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
that's what mo says
or should i say mo’s spin of the day?
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
that summarizes it nicely.
I hereby award you “post of the day, Feb. 9, 2009.”
You get the parking spot right by the door today.
+1
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Feb 9, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
you're doing it wrong
or maybe tom was.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Sorry...
doing what wrong?
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Feb 9, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
awesome!
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
he can be ready by late season
at the latest, right?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 10, 2009 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
Right!
We’ve had September collapses the last few years. Maybe a Sheets pickup in late August could solve that!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 10, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
Can he play 2B?
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Feb 10, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
the post didn't go green originally.
i think he was saying we forgot to rec him officially — which i did forget initially.
since ’rec’tified.
ding ding
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
This makes me happy. Go skip get your 2b on. Only thing better would be if Crabman got in on the 2B action.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
Well
At least now we can have 5 OFs in the lineup, what with Skip at 2b and Mather at 3b.
Give Albert a day off for CDunk at 1B and we’re getting somewhere!
i should be happy about this, but i'm really at a loss here
with the recent new the Cardinals are “out of cash”, this seams like a stupid stupid move financially. why throw away $4million? all the numbers say he’s an above average 2nd basemen, and he’ll probably hit OK. i’m at a loss here, i really am.
btw, i’m listening to Bernie’s show, and i swear the people calling in are drunk. gawd are they stupid.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Out of Money was per some agents
so I wouldn’t put too much into that rumor. Mo probably wanted the agent to stop calling offering up some replacement level free agents. I don’t always tell the truth when a charity calls me either.
I'm guessing
the Cubs will sign him(AK) for league min and then the cardinals will trade for Dan Uggla in a 3 team deal with the Giants, because I hear they are looking for a left-handed 1B.
Cardinals send Duncan & prospects to SF & prospects to FLA
Marlins send Uggla to STL & Prospects to SF
Giants send Prospects to FLA
you didn't really take that post seriously
did you?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
doncha know that every team has 2 or 3 guys named P. Rossbeck?
Apparently so, because people keep talking about trading him all the time.
With their lolcat phone speech.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
Hallelujah!
We won’t have to worry about Kennedy anymore! What a relief!
I think the Cards are going to try to go after Orlando Hudson now. Might as well!
Welcome to Baseball Heaven.
Kennedy was probably one of the only players I wasn't worried about
The Mang – No worries there, we all know he’ll be solid all around.
A.D.A.M. – Along the lines of Albert, but just a twinge of injury concern
Ludwick, Lohse, Welley – all bound to regress some right?
Glaus, Carp, Duncan – can they all come back from injuries?
Yadi – Was last year’s offensive jump a fluke year or not?
Young guys in the bullpen – how will they handle a full ML season?
Khalil – Can he bounce back from his worst season ever?
Piniero – Lost cause? Yes.
Adam Kennedy – solid defense, capable offense (not the best, but capable for the position he plays)
Thurston, Freese, Rasmus – what will these players show in their first chances at major playing time?
There are soooo many question marks on this team, and the FO just dropped one of the few areas that wasn’t really a cause for concern. Now it seems we’re digging ourselves into a deeper hole. If the FO has the faith in these young guys to step up and fill in the role, then great! More power to them. But, I hope that they come up with a damn good reason for feeling the need to just straight drop the guy, because otherwise this move makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 9, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
This move should prove to everyone
that TLR really doesn’t give a rip about IF defense. Or maybe he can just see better than everyone else and all that statistical talk is just a bunch of nonsense.
Seriously, how can you emphasize that your pitchers must generate ground balls and then put Floppy in the IF, Miles at SS, etc., etc. etc. ?
I love the Cardinals and I hope this works out, but wouldn’t it be ironic if we just miss the playoffs because of a gaping hole at 2B? The combined WAR of next year’s 2Bs will probably be less than Kennedy’s last year playing half time. I don’t even like Adam Kennedy, but this is dumb.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
a little too ironic...
I really do think. It’s like rain on your wedding day. it’s a free ride and you’ve already paid. it’s the good advice, that you just didn’t take. and who would have thought it figures…
That's not ironic
If someone gives you good advice and you don’t take it, that’s called being stupid.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 9, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Ok
Alannis, it’s not ironic. Neither is rain on your wedding day. It’s unfortunate, yes. Ironic, no.
If you were to have your wedding in the desert for the sole purpose to prevent it from raining during your wedding, and then it proceeded to rain, that would be ironic. And, if I were that person, I’d just have your wedding indoors. Most of the situations in that song don’t qualify as true irony.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 9, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
the only ironic thing about the song
is that its a song about irony and nothing in it is ironic
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Feb 9, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
maybe that's the point...
that’s just the song that pops in my head when i hear the word “ironic”…what can i say; i’m a product of the 90’s
I can sadly say I own that CD
I listend to it a while back, I am not sure why I liked it at the time???
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Feb 9, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
I've always thought that was the point
Alanis probably has a good laugh anytime someone complains to her that her song isn’t actually ironic.
Replacement thoughts...
Outside of the obvious options internally and externally (Durham, Hudson, Roberts, Grudz), here are some players I’d like to see the Cards look at acquiring to fill 2B:
Willy Aybar
Willie Harris
Chin-Lung Hu
Clint Barmes
Anybody have any other ideas?
Willie Harris isn't that good
People just remember his 6-for-6 day against us (I was at that game) in Atlanta in 2007. He wasn’t a starter on a terrible Nats team last year. On the other hand, that didn’t stop us from signing Lopez…
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
Barmes might become available in ST
but is he truly any better?
"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by Futility Infielder on Feb 9, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
not than almost anybody
and he’s not better than Thurston/Ryan/Hoffpauir/Barden/T. Greene — they’re all replacement level players.
Willie Harris...
had an OPS of .761 last year. Skip had an OPS of .765.
The difference is that Willie Harris has the ability to play 2B at the big league level.
Last year was his best season to date, as well
His career OPS+ is 75. Skip’s is 98. I’d prefer Grudz over either, but I don’t want Willie Harris.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
I think Grudz or Durham is the best option...
but I don’t know if either could be had on a 1-2 million deal. That would be a huge pay cut for either of them but I’ll celebrate if it happens.
Check out Willie’s numbers (offensive and defensive) for the past 2 seasons. I think you’ll realize he’s better than you thought.
he's apparently a tremendous defensive outfielder
almost unbelievably good (+34 runs!) but he’s below average defensively at 2B.
"young pitchers will break your heart". -sam rich
Hu is by FAR the best option of that group
But he’s probably going to be the starting 2B for the Dodgers…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
gotta give mo some credit...
He had everyone (even we scholarly birdos readers) believing we were comfortable with him. In reality, Im guessing they new all along he wasnt going to play this year. But it’s kindof hard to shop someone if people know you plan on dumping him.
Give the man some credit… he tried to get something out of him… but there just wasnt anything there. ST is here… why not make some room for people who actually want to play here, regaurdless of their role
by mr banana grabber on Feb 9, 2009 5:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm OK with this...
I’ll be shocked if Schu plays a decent 2nd, but if we have to get on the waiver wire or pick up someone like Belly… well, that’s pretty much par for the course since the Fernando Vina era.
So...
When will we get a Zapruder film of this Kennedy assassination? Was Mo the lone gunman? I need conspiracy theories!
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
So all this talk about how great Kennedy was defensively last year...
Is it possible that the mang with his mighty glove makes average defeners at 2b looks stellar the way a good shortstop helps make your 3B a better glove?
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
if anything
it works the other way. Good 3B’s make SS’s look not as good, because they cut in front and reduce the number of out-of-zone plays the SS can make. 1B’s would have the same effect on 2B’s.
If the SS tries to take advantage of this by cheating up the middle, and the 1B/3B DOESN’T make a great play, the SS/2B gets penalized. So it’s a lose-lose scenario for the middle infielder.
"young pitchers will break your heart". -sam rich
I remember Eckstein looking much less adequate when Rolen was on the bench, but I wasn’t tracking OOZ or anything.
i could be wrong, of course
i’m just gut-intuitioning here.
eckstein’s UZR/150 doesn’t really support or disprove either position. He was -8 runs in ’05, when rolen missed a lot of time, was average in 06 when rolen was there most of the season, and then -8 again when rolen was there most of the season. Of course he missed more time in ’07 than in ’06.
"young pitchers will break your heart". -sam rich
I swear there were games when Rolen and Eck were here
that Rolen was playing closer to short than Eckstein, and not only when the shift was on.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
A deal or signing must be happening soon.
Right? It’s hard to imagine Mo would just agree to drop AK and be willing to choke down those 4 million clams, especially if the reason is that “Daddy LaRussa told me to.”
This Schumaker nonsense has reached fever pitch, despite being properly crushed by Chuck yesterday. I understand that, in the end, Schumaker seemingly would be no worse than than any BardenThurstonRyanT-Greene chimera, but this will make our MIF worse overall (considering offense and defense) compared to last year. And that is really, really bad.
All in all
The infield won’t be that much worse with Schumaker rather than Kennedy. As Chuck said, Kennedy would be a clear upgrade over Schu IF Skip was indeed an awful defender. By awful, he used -15 runs, which I think is a little too pessimistic. There is no reason why Schu wouldn’t be able to play at least a capable second, maybe -5 runs. In that case, the difference wouldn’t be so much.
vivaelbeñsheets
Who knows
I’d think if he could be a second basemen he’d be one already, but we’ll see how it turns out. With a rotation full of right handed groundball pitchers, you do need at least something approaching adequate defense at 2nd.
If they are really committed to the grand experiment, it would stand to reason you might want a known quantity in reserve. That could be a case for keeping Kennedy around. On the other hand, if you are really committed to this it will have to extend past spring and Adam Kennedy would not be very good to have around the clubhouse.
I think the driver behind this move has to be that the projection for Kennedy is not that high, and they think there are options besides Schumaker that they’d rather gamble with vs. running Kennedy out there. I am assuming they’re ready to take a shot that one (or more) of Thurston, Barden, Hoffpauir, Greene, Ryan can step up and offer something when called upon.
by Merry CRasmus on Feb 9, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry...
but this is real life, it’s not video game baseball.
You don’t plug in a guy who hasn’t played the middle infield for what, 10 years, and expect him to be anything but atrocious, especially as he probably wouldn’t have been moved to the OF if he were a good infielder.
Besides stuff like fielding the ball, he has to learn things like covering the base on throws, handling the double play, etc. A lot of it is muscle memory – doing something just because you react, not thinking about it. He’s going to have to think about what he’s doing until his reflexes get trained.
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
Not only that
but (I think this qualifies as irony) what if Skip actually made the defensive transition successfully, but put up Kennedy-like numbers at the plate?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Kennedy was a second baseman in College
Or maybe high school, either way he HAS played the position before. I think that -15 runs is beyond atrocious. Kennedy would certainly be better than Jeff Kent at age 40.
vivaelbeñsheets
Why -5?
There is no reason why Schu wouldn’t be able to play at least a capable second, maybe -5 runs. In that case, the difference wouldn’t be so much
So you think instead of being 1.5 losses in the field, Skip would be only .5 losses. Why? Grit factor?
Schumaker
I was just using -5 as a rough guess. Unlike Chuck who actually used a real number based on a real player, I was just being sloppy.
I actually think that Schu will be able to be -8 runs. I base this on Kelly Johnson, a player who had never played second in the minors, and who was a very good defensive left fielder before he moved to second. He has been worth right around -8 runs over the last 2 years. I think that Johnson is decent projection for Schu.
Really though, we have absolutely no idea of how well he will be. You can say he will be terrible, bad or average, but no one has actually seen him play second. I trust that Tony or Moz saw something that led them to believe that he could at least be adequate there. Tony has always put value on good defense up the middle (see Kennedy, Izturis, Yadier, Matheny, Edmonds, Renteria, Hart, Vina, etc). I don’t think he would let Schu play there if he though he was going to be terrible.
vivaelbeñsheets
Trying it out
I suppose there’s no direct harm in trying it out, other than the lost hours that an average 2B guy might get during fungoes.
And Johnson did play the infield in the minors, more than any other position in his whole MiLB tenure. 118 games at SS in A+, 91 at SS in AA.
I just hope that Skip's arm
doesn’t become erratic at 2b. The last thing we need is a second baseman that hangs APu out to dry. I had enough of that while Eckstein was here.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Anyone remember
Steve Sax’s or Chuck Knoublach’s arm at second? It seems to me that the deal with throwing from second is more mental than physical because of the shorter distance. Except when churning the double, of course.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Check this out...
RJ at FanGraphs put this up talking about Schumaker’s possible move to second base.
Two points here:
- At -14 they are nearly the same player if Schu repeats his 2008 offensive numbers and Kennedy repeats his 2008 offensive numbers AND repeats his ridiculous defensive season.
- At -20 defensive runs for Skip, assuming he repeats his 2008, he’s a .85 win player. If Kennedy has the same offensive numbers next year and comes down to earth defensively, he’s a .75 win player.
Either way, if Skip comes close to repeating his performance offensively, he can be a horrific defensive player and be nearly as valuable as Kennedy, just by switching positions. Add to that fact that the Cardinals keep their leadoff hitter in the lineup and we add in another good bat in the OF (either Mather, Duncan, or Rasmus), our team gets that much better.
Everyone is assuming that Kennedy will outperform his career defensive metrics by a full win again next season. If he falls back to earth at his career average, Skip’s bat outweighs Kennedy’s glove. In this case, the bat is mightier than the glove.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Feb 10, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe skip as been taking grounders
and proved to oquendo that he could do it. I just can’t beleive they couldn’ trade kennedy for some rookie league reject they liked if they ate all of AK salary
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
we say "taking grounders"
but the footwork around the bag is a difficult thing to master for a 2B. It’s my understanding that Skip only played SS and 3B in college (and a little in minors). He’s never been on the other side of the bag. I can see Skip gaining enough proficiency to be a part-timer over at 2B along the lines of how much LaRussa used Speizio at 2B. But making Skip a platoon 2B seems a bit much. I’d love to see him pull it off though. Skip is a very determined guy who works his ass off at whatever he applies himself to.
Skip
played 6 games at 3B in AA in 2004, making 2 errors out of 14 plays in those 6 games. My understanding is that, prior to that, he hadn’t played the infield since 1999, his first year of college. That’s 10 years ago for those of you scoring at home (and college ball, to boot!).
This was handled horribly.
I don’t know who is at fault, but whoever put this off until the last minute, misled Cardinals fans, misled AK, hell, misled the whole time, made a seriously stupid mistake. Y’know, I was getting anxious over our non-moves this winter, but this, this makes me angry.
On with the (good) youth movement!
Agreed
They are really dicking around Kennedy here. They said that it was his job to lose a week before spring training starts and then they suddenly release him. Ironically Kennedy might be rather sought after as a FA, because unlike Cabrera, he wouldn’t cost a draft pick.
vivaelbeñsheets
Disagree
AK didn’t want to be a bench player again and Mo tried to trade him. Releasing him now before players report gives AK the chance to make his own place on any team. AK was probably consulted on the issue and who knows may have asked that he be released if he isn’t going to be the starter.
If Mo or the Cards wanted to screw AK then they would have played others during ST and released him in late March, too late for him to really find a job.
Why would he be a bench player again?
Who do we have that’s better than him?
On with the (good) youth movement!
If they wanted to give him a chance play for another team
They should have released him earlier in the off season. Now he has absolutely no leverage and will likely have to settle for a minor league deal.
vivaelbeñsheets
If they really couldn't find any takers
for Kennedy then he will not be able to find a job. If somebody offers you a free player by paying his entire salary in exchange for a Perdomo type and you decline, then why would you pay the same valueless player $400K to play?
I don’t care that much whether they dicked Kennedy around, but when we say this we need to remember “they” is spelled T-L-R. I think this is a sign that a rift is emerging between TLR and MO/DeWitt. I sure hope 2009 is TLR’s last year.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
I personally like TLR
I trust a guy who turned a team that nobody thought would do well into a competitive team.
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
you trust ryan ludwick?
Me too ;)
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
by SleepyCA on Feb 10, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
$4 milllion
you can tell me any lie you want to for that kind of money to do nothing
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Feb 10, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
I wish everyone would get their story straight...
Everyone should either bitch and moan that the FO was a dick to AK because they waited so long to release him or they should bitch and moan that the FO didn’t work hard enough to get something for him before releasing him. The two are pretty much mutually exclusive.
Cause what happened was that the FO knew they were getting rid of him and tried the last few months to get something for him before giving up the hope of getting anything useful so they made the best compromise and cut him a week or before ST. And if the cast of contenders does not work out (Barden, Ryan, Thurston, Schu, etc.) then there’s plenty of cheap options on the mkt like Grudz and Durham, not to mention Hudson. The FO’s actions have been perfectly reasonable – everyone’s hand-wringing is embarassing and based primarily on two outlying events – 1. AK’s “great” defense last year which is very unlikely to be repeated; and 2. a hot streak at the end of the season that “saved” his offensive numbers.
In sum – the FO’s actions are reasonable and the fact that AK was cut qualifies as a “so what.”
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 10, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would agree completely
if I knew they actually offered to eat his entire salary in exchange for a low level prospect and couldn’t find any takers. Most of the accounts I have heard imply that the Cardinals couldn’t get a deal done because they were unwilling to eat a substantial chunk of his salary.
Given that the throw-in prospect in the Edmonds trade turned out to be a potentially pretty useful player in Freese, it would be somewhat disappointing if they got nothing for Kennedy because they wouldn’t eat all his salary, but end up eating all his salary for nothing in return.
I don’t think this is on the F.O. at all, though, because it was pushed by TLR and certainly approved by DeWitt. I would still say it is only barely above a “so what”.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
This was really confusing.
We wouldn’t trade him earlier in the season because we refused to eat half of his contract and now…
Hopefully this whole ordeal will become clearer in the next few days (signing a new guy.)
But when one door closes another one opens. I’m okay with Schumaker at 2B because we are basically trading for Kelly Johnson while not losing anything (except AK) and solving some of our OF problem.
I think I read somewhere that we may add two more pitchers to the ST roster. Any idea of what caliber or who these players are?
Johnson would costs us quite a bit
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it though. The optimist me thinks that the Braves MIGHT take Ankiel and a plus-pitcher like Jess Todd. The realistic me says it might take Ludwick plus Todd.
Oh, and this is real me.
Also an idea that makes as much sense as the AK release.
Mather and Schumaker platoon at 2B and filling in in the OF. Then we have Rasmus, Ankiel, and Ludwick starting in the OF and Duncan as the 41/2th OF behind the offduty second baseman in Mather or Schu.
Mather says he wants to be one of the tallest 2B to play.
What tells us Skip can play 2b?
Other than hitting like one?
Looking at his minor league stats, apparently Skip played 6 games at 3b in 2004, and he was terrible at it.
Mather at least played 24 games in the minors at 3b, and seems to have been bad at it, but better than Skip.
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
Mo will listen to LaRussa
but only if he’s trying to get rid of someone.
LaRussa wanted Fuentes, nope
LaRussa wanted Ramirez, nothing (yet? haha)
LaRussa wanted to get rid of Rolen, gone
LaRussa wanted to get rid of AK, gone.
Moral of the story, don’t get on Tony’s bad side or you’re gone.
I don't think LaRussa wanted Ramirez.
That was Pujols. Unless you’re talking about a different Ramirez (not Manny).
On with the (good) youth movement!
You're right...
They’d rather have to World Series MVP pitcher and a World Series MVP third baseman….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Actually they tried to trade for Hanley this season.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
O yea my bad. It was mainly Pujols
But I can almost guarantee that LaRussa was on the side that was for Manny since hes been trying to get a bat behind Pujols for the last couple years. and I meant Manny but I would love Hanley who by the way cannot play defense.
I like this move
It doesn’t make sense for a lot of reasons. As tom s. said:
we could have held onto Kennedy through ST and watched how his potential replacements played. We could have allowed a potential replacement to get PA’s and play in the field WITH KENNEDY ON THE BENCH as insurance during the season. it’s not like we got anything (money, prospects, etc.) for dfaing kennedy. there was no rush to dump him.
I think that was put very nicely. I would also like to say that we probably could have gotten at least a low level prospect for Kennedy if we had traded him and eaten all of his salary, which is essentially what we are doing now.
The thing I like about it, is that it shows the FO is taking a risk. Thurston, Schumaker or Barden certainly have more upside than Kennedy. I like that they are making sure that they go with the younger players instead of falling into the trap of benching them as soon as they struggle. While it may not have been the smartest course of action, the I cannot imagine that the difference in wins b/t Kennedy and Schumaker/Barden/Thurston in the worst case scenario is any more than a win.
I like that they are making a move for the future also. Kennedy may be a solid player now, but he is only under contract for one more year. There was almost no way that we would have resigned him so he would be gone, but Schu, Barden and Thurston will all be under contract for a while and in all likelihood, one of them will be the 2nd baseman of the future.
vivaelbeñsheets
everybody complained about floppy playing for a month
but kennedy was going to be doing the same thing for a year
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Feb 10, 2009 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
I love it!
This is what the Cardinals are all about! Competition! The best man wins. for the time being. This is why we all love Tony La Ru! Play hard, win a job and fight to keep it. Thats our identity and thats what keeps us competing every year, even if our payroll isn’t 120 million. Kennedy thought he deserved a spot. Thats not what players who play for Tony do. He deserved his release. It will be great to watch yet another competition in the spring.
Best of the worst maybe
“He [Kennedy] deserved his release” is harsh, man. Fangraphs would tell you he was worth more than double his salary based on defense.
wOBAs for all replacements are horrible. I can’t speak to their defense (maybe someone from FR can) other than Ryan, who is average. If we are replacing interally, it’s a step down.
But not by that much
And while it may hurt a little bit (tops 1 win) this year, It will be good to see if Skip or Thurston or Ryan can be the second baseman of the future.
vivaelbeñsheets
I don't know, 1 win is pretty valuable
If we do intend to compete, then 1 win is most certainly worth playing for.
1 win is the downside
If Schumaker is anywhere near average defensively, than the gap would be almost non-existant. Also there are many ways to find a 2 WAR second baseman. Just look at Miles and Kennedy last year. If Thurston or Barden (who are both apparently excellent defensively) are able to luck into a good BABIP year, than they would essentially be Miles next year.
vivaelbeñsheets
If Kennedy deserved his release
than those lesser guys — Thurston, Ryan, Barden…whoever — deserve to be banished to Siberia! Kennedy wasn’t great. There’s a good argument to be made that he wasn’t even good, but last year, he was exceptional defensively and he was still better than anything else we had to offer.
As I said, if we had our 2B of the future waiting in the wings, or if we did this in order to sign Grudzielanek, Hudson, or (my choice — and yes, I know he’s not good defensively) Ray Durham, the move is defensible. If it’s done to open a MI spot for Skip, it is insane! I could get behind a Grudzielanek signing also.
Kennedy didn't deserve his release
But I don’t think that he should be on the team anymore. We can argue just how well Scumaker will be defensively, but none of us has actually seen him play. I’ll bet that Tony/Moz or whoever is calling the shots at least used a little bit of logic on this one, and he at least believes that Schu can be a decent second baseman from what they have seen.
The thing that I like about this move is that is it a step in the future. The problem that I had with the Greene trade was that whether or not he is able to bounce back and be an above average player, he will likely only be on the team for one year. By releasing Kennedy, the club has at least shown that they are committed to the future. Schumaker, Barden, Greene (Tyler) and Thurston will all be under club control for a few years. If one of these players is able to distinguish himself as an above average second baseman, then we can finally end the constant shuffle at second.
vivaelbeñsheets
Wow.
Kool-Aid, anyone?
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
Dammit would you all quit saying ohhhh noooo.....
Every time some one says ohhhhh nooooo in this court room the damn kool aid man breaks through the wall
Seriously
We will probably never know what went down with Kennedy. I’m not his biggest fan, but he was serviceable and comparably cheap. If he wasn’t going to play, then this is the fairest thing for him – let him sign on with another team. The fact that no one wanted to trade for him may not be the case – they probably would have taken him, but the prospect they wanted was probably too much.
As to Schu playing 2B…that’s going to be a tough one. He’s athletic, yes, but its not a position anyone can play. I think we’ll see a move – albeit a slight one. Grudz, possibly if just for depth. At the end of the day, we still have a pretty good lineup and what will probably amount to league average infield defense (hopefully).
My bigger concern is 3B, and who will play that for the 1st month of so of the season. And who will hit behind Albert. And if Carp is going to start 25 games. And who will be the closer.
So, IMHO, 2B is on the list – but it is not the most pressing need. But that’s just me.
As to Tony running the team – I don’t think he is, but who cares? Really, does it matter?
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
I wish someone would pay me 4 mil
To do nothing all year. Obvousily something has changed recently that led to Kennedy parting ways. Maybe the cubs will pick him up and he can platoon with miles again!
Can someone please enlighten me?
So what happens financially when AK is picked up by another team? Is the Cards only liable for the difference in the salary? If so, and if AK’s new deal is multi-year, could the new team totally backload the deal so as make the Cards cover the first year?
Or is the Cards liable for the entire salary no matter what?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
i thought the new team pays him the league min, and we pay the remainder.
$4m – $400K = $3.6M
Didn’t the cubbies pay a pro-rated share of the league min to edmonds?
no he makes 4.4 mil
Countdown to world series #11
263 days
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 10, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
negative. tom s. has it right.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
I thought the cards were responsible for the remaining contract meaning 4 mil
then the other team paid league min on top of that
Countdown to world series #11
263 days
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 10, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
per wikipedia -- prior team is on the hook for contract "less what is paid by" signing team
If a player is not traded, and clears waivers, he may be released from the team. The player is then a free agent and may sign with any team, including the team that just released him. The team that releases him is responsible for the salary the player is owed, less what he is paid by the team that signs him. In practice, that amount is usually a pro-rated portion of the Major League minimum salary.
This is strange
I just watched Mizzou beat KU in an ugly but exciting game, and now I can’t think straight and have to go manage a class of HS’ers in roughly 8.5 hours, so all I’m going to say is that the timing of this is kind of stunning. More later.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 10, 2009 12:01 AM EST reply actions
Don't know if this has been brought up yet
The timing of the Kennedy dumping seems weird to me. Why wait this long just to release him, at this point why not wait until Spring Training to see how Kennedy performs? If he starts off well, then Tony might have reconsidered keeping him or increase his trade value. If he starts off like crap and pisses Tony off, then release him like you were going to anyway. Eating the 4 million without a real MLB ready replacement seems risky. What was the harm in waiting to see which Kennedy was going to show up? It really is frustrating as a fan when the organization has stressed not spending money just to spend money in free agency to flush 4 million down the drain in this circumstance.
so the alcs game in which adam lennedy hit 3 home runs is on FSN west
glorious timing, eh? Wonder if AK is sitting back in his malibu mansion with a cold one, watching his finest hour in glorious HD?
I hope so. STL wasn’t a good match, but we’ll always have that hit against the red sox to remember you by. I was so sure that would be the turning point of your cardinals career, but alas, it wasn’t meant to be. Good luck, dude.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
where are all the haters now?
i can’t even begin to count how many times i saw ‘dfa kennedy’ last season. there was always talk about how the fo was too cheap to eat his salary. well, ladies and gents, be careful what you wish for…
(for the record, i think we’ll survive)
"And it's popped up, into foul territory and out of play. Oh, that ball landed right in a lady's Busch." -Mike Shannon
I was one of those "DFA Kennedy" guys at some point; 2008 changed my mind.
Part of the problem with Kennedy was that his hitting wasn’t all that great, and it wasn’t obvious that he still had value. He wasn’t as bad a hitter as Izturis and he played good defense. Kennedy also didn’t have that “defensive specialist” aura that Iz2 had, which I believe led many to defend the latter. Until recently it seems many in the online baseball community had not yet woken up to the undervaluing of defense (I know I hadn’t), and it seemed like Kennedy didn’t offer anything in light of that.
Obviously I would have liked to have a middle infield tandem of Chase Utley and improved-defense-Hanley Ramirez, but Kennedy was decent last year.
i was a big anti AK guy too
of course not as big as Tony, but big nonetheless.
anyway i’m pissed because the Cards say they are out of cash, but they still do something like this. and they will use this flushing away of $4Million as to why come the trade dead line they can’t afford to take on any extra salary. they were dumb enough to sign the guy in the first place, so they have to eat the salary. and it seams like we the fans & the team will suffer because of it.
that’s why i’m pissed.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Forget about them being "out of money"
They’re out that 4 million regardless, so if they keep AK, and expect him to be useless, than it’s nothing but opportunity cost.
If freeing up this spot lets Rasmus play everyday, isn’t it worth it?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
yes it's worth it
but if they would turn Skip or Rick into a starting pitcher, like they should be trying to do all along, we wouldn’t have to worry about Tony not starting Colby.
from the start AK was a waste of cash, and with the recent news about them afraid to spend more cash, his situation really aggravates me. what’s done is done though & i should just be happy his play won’t be aggravating me this season.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
it's one thing to move an outfielder to 2B
moving an outfielder to P is impossible.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
Love this move!!
Can’t say I’ll miss Kennedy. Nothing personal but I am glad he is not a Cardinal anymore. And yes I was one of the guys who screamed DFA Kennedy during the season…so this is good news to me.
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
Wouldn’t it be badass is the Cubs (|I know, like they need another lefty) signed him as their ‘starter’ yet he was platooned with Miles again.
by CardFan@theLake on Feb 10, 2009 7:51 AM EST reply actions
whoop, Evilfrog said that alread. Guess I should read through all the comments before posting anythign
by CardFan@theLake on Feb 10, 2009 7:55 AM EST up reply actions
and I have a sinking feeling that it will happen
and kennedy will have an amazing season… please don’t let that happen!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 10, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
The timing is odd
In Dec. AK was our boy and I was OK with that. What happened? Well, could it be that Schu , Kennedy and Oquendo have been working out, and Schu is good? Kennedy then gets pissed and complains he is going to loose time to this guy? AK starts whining and TL head it and says, ’That’s it get him outta here!’ Being so late there is no trade possibilities, and so he is released. Could this be what happened?
I guess I can hope that Schu is good cause there isn’t anyone else. There has been no rumors of the Cards pursuing anyone. Maybe something will happen, but there are no links to Roberts, Johnson, Uggla, or Hudson. So why dump AK with out a real replacement? It certainly wasn’t cause Tyler Greene hit .278 in the fall league, and now looks like he can handle ML pitching. None of the MI at Memphis really look like they are about to make the jump to the bigs. Maybe glove wise they are OK, but none of them have a stick. Barden had the best ops at .770. He is 27 and some have said that he is a AAAA player, and not really a future ML’er. So is it possible that Schu is the 2Ber, Thurston “Howell the Third” is MI back up, and the rest fight to stay in the Cardinal organization?
A minor prediction at third: Freese wins the job Craig is the back up and Wallace is in AAA. Once Glaus finishes his rehab Freese is moved or released.
My theory
AK wasn’t really their boy in December. They weren’t seeing the offers they wanted and thought they would posture a little bit, wondering whether Kennedy’s public request was hurting their chances. They waited until the winter was really over and, as it turns out, nobody wanted to take on any significant portion of the salary and/or give up anything in the farm for him.
by Merry CRasmus on Feb 10, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I believe
that since Kennedy requested his trade, the FO has tried to please him. However, having no trade value, there was no team that was willing to sacrifice prospects or established players for him. And if this is true, no team would pay $4 million. This results in a frustrated Kennedy that neither the Cardinals or any other team wanted for $4 million or in exchange of players. So…
What do the Cardinals do, per Kennedy’s request and complain? They release him and eat his salary. That way, any other team might grab Kennedy for league’s minimum, instead of giving up players for him. This poses an opportunity for an uncomfortable Kennedy and leaves us with… well, trouble… IMHO, if Schu takes the spot, I’ll be happy. If Ryan or Barden takes it, I’ll be throwing my remote at the TV every time the 2nd basemen walks to the plate… again, IMHO.
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
it's funny
upgrade offensively at SS, downgrade at 2B… unless somehow schu or mather stick there, brendan ryan starts hitting like he did in ’07, or we sign somebody
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 10, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think its really skip's job to lose.
We need to clear up the OF and LaRussa was pushing for him to try it, so if he can do a half-way decent job on the defensive end, I think he has the job easily. At least half of a platoon.
I agree
and as long as he isn’t atrocious at defense, then he’s probably worth at least being a part time 2B. it should depend on who is doing the best job of course.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 10, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Cubs runner is going, Yadier gets a good throw off.....
It goes right by Schu for an error. It happens to players, but with releasing AK by Cards FO, how many times before everyone calls for TLR, MO’s, or Schu’s heads?
I really hope Schu does well and I am generally an optimist who trusts the management, especially TLR. I hate when our fans boo our players or coaches and I sincerely hope that this doesn’t serve to bite Mo and TLR in the arse and cause too many drunken slurs cast their ways. If Schu bumbles out there it won’t be his fault, I think he is going to give it his all.
Type A status?
Is there any way that AK will get Type A or even B status? It may hinge on a player’s filing for Free Agency, But I was wondering if there was any stipulations for an occurance such as this.
Take it easy while it is easy.
by blitzkrieger83 on Feb 10, 2009 11:34 AM EST reply actions
Not at all
If he was a Type A, chances are we would probably want him back
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
We still wouldn't want him back
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 10, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
From the Fungonion
Sorry, no link.
"St. Louis Cardinals’ manager Tony LaRussa has decided to use the 2009 MLB season to test his fourth outfielder theory, a decision that prompted general manager John Mozeliak to immediately release 2B Adam Kennedy.
The consensus among internet message board posters was that the Cardinals planned on giving Skip Schumaker a shot at winning the starting job at second base. LaRussa’s decision puts that rumor to bed. In LaRussa’s suggested format, he will move Schumaker into any variant of a four outfielder setup, leaving the second base position vacant.
Mozeliak, speaking on the condition of anonymity, had this to say of the manager’s plan, ‘Projections have Schumaker giving 15 runs back if he plays second base, largely because he’s only experienced at fielding balls while his feet are on the outfield turf. Tony thinks that issue can be solved by moving him off the infield dirt and onto the outfield grass. I agree with him. Simply calling Schumaker an outfielder instead of a second baseman changes defensive projections for Schumaker from -15 to +18 runs. That’s a 33 run net gain and makes us a certain playoff contender.’
LaRussa, a league leader in defying convention, commented that the fourth outfielder will revolutionize the game in much the same way as batting the pitcher 8th — ’We’ll have four outfielders when everyone else will have just three. Just think about how that changes warm-up toss assignments!’
Bob Costas, anxious to discuss something other than steroids, will be hosting a panel discussion on MLB Network this evening to decide how to properly abbreviate the position when keeping score."
by your_all_morans on Feb 10, 2009 12:59 PM EST reply actions
wow
now they are “moving” him from the infield? he never played there…
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 10, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Position abbreviation
I’m only half kidding when I say it should be 4.5. This would be playing a deep second base and a shallow right field, which is abbreviated 9. Half of nine is 4.5….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
6 to 4.5 to 3
I am not sure it scans as well but I would certainly give it a try.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.
by garden nome on Feb 11, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
True
Hearing Shannon do it would be PRICELESS!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Just put "25 or 6 to 4" on tape for him to play.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Feb 11, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
would that be more for cardinals care
because there is an extra half in there
Countdown to world series #11
263 days
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 11, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I never thought I'd see the day
when Adam Kennedy became a martyr.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Feb 11, 2009 8:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Momentary Insanity man
I am sticking to that one.
We are inside of 55 days until Opening Day. I can’t wait until we can actually start arguing debating the merits of people that are actually on the team.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Is that your new persona?
Look everyone!!!!! Up in the sky!!!!!! It’s………….
Momentary Insanity Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I need to get to work on the costume for that
on second thought, Momentary Insanity Man can get away with wearing NOTHING as a costume
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Only momentarily, though
That may cause a problem
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 12, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
were going streeeeeeeeeking!
hey, is KFC still open?
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I like the idea of Skip at 2nd!!
He’ll have a great teacher in Oquendo to get him where he needs to be.
I think he can learn the position in a fairly quick amount of time and will suprise alot of us this year.
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
if Rick Ankiel can play GG quality CF
Skippy can play a high level 2ndbase
/ducks & runs for cover
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I'm not sure what
Gold Glove quality means, but I don’t think it is really synonymous with high level defense.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Gold Glove
essentially means Michael Young and Nate Mclouth in the field. It is synonymous with anything that Pujols didn’t win.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
see McClouth, Nate
Countdown to world series #11
263 days
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 11, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Roger Dorn like
I keep picturing Skippy taking a few grounders off the shoulders and legs over the next few weeks. Ouch. When’s the last time a 2B went on the DL with an injury caused by an errant ground ball ?
Yeah...
If only we could get Schumaker in some sort of movie montage he would start playing amazing defense…
by aaron_notmiles on Feb 13, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Cant be worse than Grit at SS
remember the 3-error inning vs. the Giants. Still think that’s a record, but no one ever confirmed it.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:
bob brenly once had 4 in one inning.
he also hit two home runs (4 RBI) in that game, and they won 7-6, on a walkoff home run by (of course) bob brenly.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
lennie merullo...1942...chicago cubs..
4 errors in 1 inning at short….for perspective omar vizquel had full seasons of 3 errors and 4 errors (AL best AND NL best…tied with ripken and rey ordonez, respectively)
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 15, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
learning the position is one thing
playing the position is something else. the level of concentration, no body/muscle training, etc make it tougher than learning to catch a groundball again.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Kennedy signed a minor league deal with the Rays.
If we wouldn’t have complained about not starting he would still be in the majors for us. If I were him I would take my 4 million and retire.
Odd
Kennedy gets signed before Durham or Hudson do.
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
not really too odd...
both want major league deals and kennedy got a minor league deal with no guarantee to be on the ML roster. Durham and Hudson would’ve never accepted this kind of deal.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 18, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, i disagree
Did you think at the beginning of the offseason that nobody would sign Hudson? I sure thought the Mets would pick him up.
My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...
backup to the backup
i will take my chances that only one is hurt this season
Chuck Norris hit a Home Run
with his beard
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 19, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
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