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Hot Stove - until roughly 400 posts

A couple of names have been taken off the board recently, but it's still moving slow as hell.   Oh yeah....Ben Sheets will miss most of 2009, thus making Braden Looper the best starting pitching option remainIng, now that Petitte, Wolf, and Garland have signed.  Any guesses as to whom Mozeliak may be referring to when he says there will be pitchers available by trade in the spring?  In other news...A-Rod tests positive for steroids - 6 years ago.  The hot topic around here still seems to be 2B.  What would you like to see the cards do?

 

 

Poll
What is your preferred 2B scenario?
Sign Hudson to a moderately priced 1 year deal and eat kennedy's contract
32 votes
Send as many prospects as it takes to land Roberts
12 votes
Adam Kennedy is the starter while Skip is groomed for '10
41 votes
Send as many prospects as it takes to land Uggla
21 votes
Try to sign Hudson to a multi-year on the cheap
11 votes
Let Kennedy play out the last year and try to sign Roberts as a FA
37 votes
Something else
48 votes

202 votes | Poll has closed

5 recs  |  Comment 307 comments

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I voted for

Something else, I’d like to see Kennedy play out the year….or see Grudzy here this year or next, or see what it would take to get Belliard back from the Nats

Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.-Bull Durham

by pujols_5 on Feb 7, 2009 12:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I voted for Uggla

With no one like Uggla in our pipeline of 2Bs, I would love to take a shot at him, assuming we could deal from areas of strength in our farm system.

My second choice would be grooming Skip. Assuming he can continue hitting at last year’s level (not sure about that), then he would be a cheaper version of Brian Roberts, with a touch less power and who strikes out less. I guess how we handles it defensively would be the $64,000 question.

by Fred Head on Feb 7, 2009 2:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Also - I love the idea of getting a 2B that can hit leadoff....

….Skip or Roberts would fit that hole the best. I would be less excited about Hudson in that role. Obviously Uggla would not be placed there, but I like his power and age too much.

I am assuming that eventually Rasmus will bat 2nd, not 1st, hence the thought process.

by Fred Head on Feb 7, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

against lefties too?

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 7, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

a lot of roberts' value is his speed

skip doesn’t really have that. So I guess skip would be a cheaper version of BR with less power, less speed, less defense (probably) and the inability to hit LHP.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 7, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

but other than that...

I guess he is also less money

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 7, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Note from MLBTR about Durham
According to Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com, Ray Durham hasn’t received a single offer this offseason and he’s considering retirement. Durham says there’s a 50-50 chance he’ll retire, but he’d like to play in 2009.

The Cardinals phoned to see if Durham would consider backing up Adam Kennedy, but other teams haven’t expressed interest.

I wonder if there’s a standing offer there from the Cardinals…in which case it would seem that this implies that there’s a 50/50 chance Ray Durham will be our backup 2B in 2009. Which, by the way, I’m okay with, assuming it’s on the cheap. Durham could actually hit second in our lineup — he had a .380 OBP last year.

If we signed Durham for 1 year for almost no money, how ridiculous would that Aaron Miles contract look for the Cubs?

by mojowo11 on Feb 7, 2009 2:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i think a durham signing...

would mean that durham at some point becomes our everyday 2B at some point during ‘09. You gotta figure Kennedy will fall out of favor eventually. The fact that Schu will be taking reps at 2B is a pretty strong indication of how they feel about AK, in my opinion. I’d be okay with it as long as it was cheap…but I’m not sure how that would effect Project Skip, which I would like to see attempted.

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 7, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would absolutely love to see durham on a deal like that.

Among free agents he is definitely one of the most highly undervalued.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Feb 7, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not me

if my menu choice for starting second baseman each night is between Kennedy and Durham, I am not just very disappointed… I am very very disappointed.

by the Tewk on Feb 7, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Durham

In only 426 PA last year was the 6th best second baseman in the NL last year.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 7, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it's interesting

UZR likes him a LOT more than RZR or +/-. By UZR he’s basically an average defensive 2B, almost exactly average for 5 of the last 6 years (and the year he wasn’t “average” he was 5 runs better than) which isn’t consistent with either the eyeball test or the conventional wisdom.

if he’s an average defender at 2B, that changes my whole perspective on him.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 7, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Shouldn't being bookended by Pujols and Greene

make him a better defender?

Pujols plays 1st like he’s playing 3rd base. He routinely goes way to his right getting to balls that no other 1st baseman even attempts to field. This alone would allow Durham to play more up the middle and then there he’s covered up by Greene.

Seems to me, if there’s a place on this team that you can hide an average (or slightly below average) defender, it’s 2nd base.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 7, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well put

That is probably why Kennedy was so good last year.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 8, 2009 1:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no, i don't think it works that way

if anything, albert took plays away from kennedy by ranging so far to his right. balls that far over wouldn’t be counted against the 2B on defense; they’d be “out of the zone”. There were a number of plays where albert was so far over that the 2B was to his left when he fielded the ball and threw it to the pitcher to get the out at first.

By the same token, Izturis almost certainly didn’t help kennedy, and vice versa. If anything, iz2 helped glaus by fielding some balls he should have gotten to, imho. The SS and the 2B are just too far away from each other, and there’s too much “out of zone” between them. Both iz2 and AK had some good plays in the grey zone behind 2B, so they helped themselves, but I don’t think the defensive metrics would have penalized the other guy if that particular play wasn’t made.

But there’s no way to really know; UZR and RZR and +/- are all “black boxes” at this point. I’d really, really like to see a more detailed breakdown. With offensive plays, you can say “on 7 july, izturis struck out” and you can look and see that he was asked to bunt with two strikes. OTOH, you can’t look at UZR and figure out exactly which plays that day were counted against izturis or Ak or whomever. oquendo might have had him playing in left field, for all we know. This is a huge flaw.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 8, 2009 3:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 9, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

project skip

is for 2010. no matter, no one will take ak this year

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 7, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kennedy extension

I predict Kennedy has a nice year and gets an extension at a much lower rate in keeping with the good defense logic. Let’s say he performs at the level we expected all along with great defense. Mo then signs him for two years at $5 million and plugs the gap until Kozma comes along. Of course La Russa would still have to be around because he loves good defense. Better the devil you know…or else you might end up with Jabba back at 2B or Hector Luna.

Of course since everyone seems to be moving North, maybe he signs with the Cubbies.

BTW — is Eckstein still out there. Wouldn’t he be a great backup for this team at both 2B and SS?

Just win

by The Duke on Feb 7, 2009 3:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I almost made kennedy getting an extension an option...

but i figured there was even less chance of that happening than signing roberts as a FA

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 7, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For the second time in a week

I just threw up a little in my mouth

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Feb 7, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, i can't see that happening

if it does, I really can’t see it happening for $2.5M/year.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 7, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

less.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 7, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Eckstein

I’m pretty sure he signed with the Padres earlier this off-season

Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.-Bull Durham

by pujols_5 on Feb 7, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Correct.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 7, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hudson

Is a Type-A. When I look at the players that might be available to us at pick #19, I just can’t see that it is worth it to sign him now. Not even for free.

Kennedy is OK. Sub-par offense but very good defense. I don’t think Adam Kennedy is going to keep the Cardinals out of the World Series this year. Our starting pitching might.

Ride out the year, throw the remote at the TV occasionally, and look forward to the next trip round the Cardinals MI Merry-Go-Round.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Feb 7, 2009 4:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i don't know

I’ll be shocked if wellemeyer continues what he’s done the last 18 months, btu KMC might be a pleasant surprise. I definitely think it’s a mistake not to bring looper back on a short deal.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 7, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the O's are going to give Looper at least two years.

Why not sign Juan Cruz to pitch the 7th inning and move Kmac to the rotation. I’m fine with eating the 1st round pick with as cheap as Cruz is likely to come. Cruz did have the highest K rate amongst NL relievers last season.

by Czechguardsman on Feb 7, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't think ...

that it is excusable to waste a #1 draft choice on a middle reliever. The only way i think its okay to give up your number 1 is if it is on a player that is going to make a major impact for at least 3 years. For me to be okay with signing Cruz, it would have to be an absurd deal in our favor…like 3 years for less than 2 mill per year….and thats not happening

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 7, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Andrew Cashner

Wallace was the 13th pick in the draft. The Cardinals have the 19th pick and last year that was Andrew Cashner who threw 20 innings in the cubs system last year (1 with Mesa, 16.1 with Boise, and 2.2 with Daytona).

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 7, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We don't need Cruz

We already have enough guys with great stuff and bad control who have no closing experience.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 7, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe so,

And I fully recognize that draft picks are a gamble. But when I actually look at those potential first-round picks:

http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/02/05/handicapping-draft/

I end up thinking: nice shortstop (LeMahieu), nice pitcher (Leake), killer outfielder (Pollock), might look really good wearing red.

Giving up on the rights to one of them is a high cost.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Feb 7, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the best reason to sign him

would be to lock him up for 3-4 years and then trade him next offseason.

I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t sign back with the diamondbacks, though, since it’s obvious no one else is going to even give up a second-round pick for him. Maybe the yankees, but their bullpen is pretty full.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 7, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so since he threw 20 innings he's a failure?

lance lynn only threw 26 innings in the cardinals system last year. is he a failure? stating a draft pick’s innings pitched tells nothing about them.

Sign Ben Sheets!

by bmorgan on Feb 8, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who called him a failure?

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That there's a big difference in the organizational standings

between who we got with the 13th pick and who the cubs got with the 19th pick.

Wallace made it to AA where he was mashing the ball. Cashner threw a few innings (got hit pretty hard) and only made it to low A (barely).

Plus, Wallace was drafted as a 3rd baseman while Cashner was drafted as a relief pitcher. There’s a huge difference there in expectations.

By stating that you wouldn’t want to trade Wallace for Juan Cruz, I feel it’s a misrepresentation of what happened last year. Wallace was the 13th pick in the draft. The Cardinals have the 19th pick which is where the cubs picked Cashner.

Would you trade Cashner for Cruz? Quite possibly. Wallace? No.

Cashner definitely has potential, but it’s a long way from being realized (if he realizes it at all). Plus, he’s a relief pitcher who throws in the mid 90s. Do you know how many of those there are in the minors? Tons. Do you know how many Brett Wallace’s there are in the minors?

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

But we also got Colby Rasmus at #28 in the 2005 draft. #19 in 2009 does not automatically equal Cashner (who may or may not be an impact player). I think you’re misrepresenting what is at stake. A first-round pick definitely has more value than Juan Cruz, imho.

We picked Chris Lambert #19 in 2004 and we all know how that turned out. The draft is mostly a crapshoot, but to say that someone like Cashner is what you’d expect out of the 19th pick is not representative.

Sign Ben Sheets!

by bmorgan on Feb 8, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not misrepsenting anything

I was just pointing out the fault in saying you’d be trading Brett Wallace for Juan Cruz.

If you have an issue with the analogy, you might want to take it up with mojo.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have an issue w/ the analogy

and I’m not sure there’s any fault in saying that. I wouldn’t trade Brett Wallace for Juan Cruz. Brett Wallace is a first-round pick. He’s obviously the top end of what you can get in the first round (at least as far as hitting is concerned).

You responded by basically saying Andrew Cashner was the 19th pick last year and that he’s not an impact player (which is far from proven). But you can obviously get someone great at #19, too. My point is that Juan Cruz is not worth a 1st round pick, even a late-round pick. Are you saying you think he is?

While the 13th pick is obviously better than the 19th pick, the actual value difference is negligible since the draft is such a crapshoot in the first place.

Sign Ben Sheets!

by bmorgan on Feb 8, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying

I made my point about the original comparison and that’s as far as I really wanted to go with it. Instead, I’ve had to explain this and I don’t feel like it since I really don’t want Juan Cruz anyway.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

okay

fair enough. i don’t either. If he wasn’t a Type A, maybe. Since he is, definitely no.

Sign Ben Sheets!

by bmorgan on Feb 8, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he were a lefty, yes.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I definately think the

last statement is what is likely to happen…but I can’t see that being the fans preference. By no means do I expect any of the above options to happen except maybe the one about skip being groomed for 2B or “something else”. Something else, of course, will wind up being another average shlub making 1-3 million, or perhaps Barden, T. Greene, or Thurston. I don’t know if I ever see the cardinals having a big name at 2B unless they are able to draft and develop one, which right now doesn’t look to be happening. It would have to be this years draft, which probably means at least 3 years away.

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 7, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In 2011

I wouldn’t be shocked to see Kozma next to Vasquez in the MI. Which might be a really nice pairing to stick between Wallace and The Mang. But, they are both young, and who knows?

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Feb 7, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be shocked either

but let’s see how the FSL goes before we count on it.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 7, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I say let AK

keep hold of the reigns at 2B for this season. Then, let him walk if Schu is able to hold his own after taking grounders for a year. Then he becomes a stopgap for a year or two until Kozma or Greene is ready.

There is also Brian Barden who could surprise everyone. If he shows up that could makes things even easier. I’m also holding onto a little sliver of hope that Ryan could re-discover his offensive ability.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 7, 2009 5:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

No more talk of

Brendan Ryan. I was on his bandwagon for a while. I am still hoping that he would make a come up this year.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Feb 7, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If we are gonna trhow a ton of prospects for uggla

why don’t we just add a few more and get ian kinsler

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Feb 7, 2009 5:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1000000000

I like Kinsler 100x more than Uggla. But, I don’t think Texas would give him up unless we included someone named Rasmus or Wallace.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 7, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uggla was actually worth slightly more than Kinsler this year

And with all Texas players, you at least have to question how good they will be outside of Arlington.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 7, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and kinsler's defense is probably worse than Skip's would be.

he’s almost as bad as felipe lopez.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 7, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh

I’ll still take Kinsler. A little bit younger, hits for a higher average, slightly higher OBP, strikesout alot less, runs better, steals bases, didn’t choke on a national stage, etc…

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 7, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

kinsler hasn't been an all-star

so who’s to say he wouldn’t choke? it’s not like his defense is a lot better than uggla’s, and he doesn’t have as much power

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He was an all-star this past season

He wasn’t great. But he was nowhere as bad as Uggla.

And as ForesterShane points out he missed a couple of months last year, so that lowered his HR total.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 8, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have been a long-time Kinsler skeptic

as prior to 2008 he had extremely pronounced home/road splits and was not a very good fielder at all. Prior to 2008 his road OPSes were .673 and .675, plus he was pretty marginal with the glove with UZR/150s of -7.9 and -11.8. At that time I probably would have nominated him for most overrated player in baseball.

However, 2008 was a different story as he actually put up an .886 OPS on the road and raised his UZR/150 up to -4.4. If he can hit on the road like he does at home and be somewhat close to an average infielder, then he will be a better player than Uggla.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 8, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And just to remind everyone

next year will be just his 4th year in the majors (same w/ Uggla). I’d wait to ever write off a player as being a bad defender or being a homepark hitter until he has been in the league maybe 5 or more seasons.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 8, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uggla has the potential to be an above average fielder

His 2006 UZR was around +9. The thing that makes everyone think he is such a bad defender is the fact that hi 2007 UZR was -13 and of course his terrible performance in the All Start game. His UZR this year was slightly about average, so if take an average of those 3 years, he is probably an average defender going forward with the potential to be good (and also the potential to be terrible).

Either way Uggla is probably a better defender than Kinsler and he has put up consistently good offensive numbers in a pitchers park. Whereas Kinsler has had one very BABIP-defendant great year in a hitters park. If the talent required to get either player was equal I would probably take Uggla.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 8, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 8, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hardly ever get to see Texas play

but it is a little surprising to me that Kinsler doesn’t have at least average range. I guess the problem is more that he just can’t catch the stinkin’ ball as he has been near the top (bottom?) in glove errors every season of his career.

I do like the 60 steals in 68 tries though.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 9, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

His baserunning is definitely a plus. He might look real good batting in front of Albert.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's one of the main

reasons I like him. He seems like the perfect type of player to slot right in front of the Mang. Uggla would strikeout too much to be in the two-spot. Kinsler’s overall athleticism is greater than Uggla’s.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 9, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone here is forgetting one thing...

Kinsler is signed through all of his arbitration years and is younger than Uggla. He has an extremely club-friendly contract, whereas Uggla would be going to arbitration every year.

Kinsler (per Cots): 09:$3M, 10:$4M, 11:$6M, 12:$7M, 13:$10M club option ($0.5M buyout)

Uggla (per Cots): 2009: filed for arbitration 1/09 ($5.35M-$4.4M), which he’ll probably win, so he’ll be paid $5.35M next season.

So, Uggla will make more in 2009 than Kinsler (who makes less than Kennedy next year), and he will more than likely make more every single year after that until the end of Kinsler’s contract. Both have three years of service time, so Uggla would be a free agent after the 2011 season, whereas we would have Kinsler under contract for another 2 years if we pick up his club option. Now, assuming that Uggla performs the next three seasons as he has his first three seasons, he’s going to be worth $12-$15M+ per year on the free agent market, assuming he’s still a second baseman. So you would be paying Uggla $2M per season more than Kinsler through 2011, then paying him $6M-$9M more for the 2012 – 2013 seasons and would probably be committed to him beyond that, and Kinsler is two years younger than Uggla, so if we’re going to extend a player beyond 2013, I’d rather have the younger guy.

Roughly, we’d be paying $25M more through 2013 to have Uggla over Kinsler, and Kinsler looks like he might be the better player, is younger, and has the skill-set that will allow him to stay at second base, where Uggla may end up getting moved to third. This has to be factored in to the conversation, because it will increase what we have to give up for Kinsler and it also shows why he is the best option.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 9, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But, think about this

Do you think it would be easier to trade for Uggla or Kinsler. The Marlins could use some experienced outfielders and more catching depth. The Texans, among other things, need pitching. What is one of our major concerns right now? Pitching. Just because the player is better, doesn’t mean it is justifiably the correct move.

by Taskmaster on Feb 9, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also

The rangers have a really loaded outfield. Sorry, forgot that part.

by Taskmaster on Feb 9, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So we should go for the guy

who is more expensive and could end up being slightly worse than Kinsler just because he is available? I’d rather stick w/ Kennedy this year and try to see if Greene, Barden, Schu, Craig, or the others on the list of MIF’s could stick at 2B for a year or two. Then hopefully Kozma would be ready by then. We need to look at viable financial options when going forward. We got this guy named Albert Pujols who we’ll have to re-sign in a few years.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 9, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I addressed that topic in my last paragraph.

This particular comment thread is about who would be the better pickup if both were available. Kinsler would be the better pickup, for all the reasons I stated above and the fact that he’s got a higher ceiling than Uggla does.

With all that being said, I don’t think that we should be actively looking to trade for either of them. They both will cost a ton of prospects and there are better ways for the Cardinals to upgrade their team through trade. We have big bats in our minor league system that will make an impact in the next couple of years, so the Cardinals should be focussed on trading for a young stud pitcher by moving some of our outfielders or third baseman to a team like San Francisco, who has a ton of young pitching in the pipeline.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 9, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure why we're even talking about Kinsler

The package of prospects it would take to get him would start with Rasmus and end many useful players later. Or they might ask for some major-league talent like Waino, ala the Yankees with Cano. The Rangers probably have the best farm system in the game already, so I’m not sure what their plan is in terms of competing now, in a couple years, etc., but either way, they’d ask for a fortune.

An Uggla trade I guess I can fathom. Maybe. But the Rangers aren’t going to trade Kinsler, their best young player and perhaps the most important cog in the future they’ve built for themselves by picking up prospects such as Feliz, Andrus, Davis, Murphy, Harrison, Smoak, Hurley, Beltre, Teagarden, Saltalamacchia, Main, Holland, and Ramirez.

Kinsler is arguably better, younger, and has a more friendly contract. These are reasons to have him, but they’re also reasons why we CAN’T have him. Let’s face it — teams are trading their young, cheap, prime-position talent. And if they are, it’s not for anyone but the best blue chip player the other team can offer. That’s the reality of this market…cheap talent rules all.

Trade talk is fun, but at some point you’re not even shooting for the moon anymore — we’re shooting beyond the moon and into deep space. Let’s try to be realistic. Kinsler is the pride and joy of the Rangers franchise right now. He caught everyone’s attention with his ridiculous first half and was in the MVP discussion until he got hurt/stopping hitting like a robot. A trade for him just isn’t happening.

By the way, this isn’t really directed at you, fourstick, just at the Kinsler talk in general.

by mojowo11 on Feb 11, 2009 4:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"I don’t think Texas would give him up unless we included someone named Rasmus or Wallace."

I think most of us are aware that we aren’t going to get Kinsler. I was just stating my reasoning for liking him more than Uggla. And if we were to just stop discussing our dream acquisitions, it could get kinda quiet around here at times. I see nothing wrong w/ discussing wanting to acquire cetain players, no matter how outrageous it may seem to others. This is the Hot Stove, and last time I checked the Cards’ FO wasn’t re-filling its propane tank other than to say we’re dropping our current second baseman.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 11, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

kinsler missed the last couple mothes of the season

A full year would have projected some really good numbers.
He is a cheaper, younger, version of brian roberts, and has potential to be far better. I would take him over anyone not named utley

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Feb 8, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I can see Kennedy

regressing into near worthlessness, but hopefully the prospect of playing for a new contract will motivate him to not suck. His average WAR over the last three years is just over .5, so I will be surprised if he manages to be as “good” as last year. I am prepared to put up with whatever combinations MO and Tony can come up with until we have a more solid pitching staff. Just make sure we have a decent defender there and look forward to ’09. No to O-dog and no to Uggla.

I just wish we could sign Looper and let him hit for Kennedy, but the GOB wouldn’t like that much.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 7, 2009 6:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Kennedy has a lot more potential that you are giving him credit for

From 02-05 with the Angeles he was worth an average of 3.3 WAR. The common denominator of those really good years with the Angels is that he was a league average hitter (with the exception of 02 when he was 10 runs above average) and he play excellent defense. Right now he is not a league average hitter, but with a little luck/hard work, he could be maybe -5 runs on offense which is close to what he was last year. He can still pick it as shown by his 22.0 UZR/150 in 08, so if he could manage to be with 5 runs of a league average hitter than he could be a 2.5 WAR player next year.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 7, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like your optimism

but he isn’t in his 20s any more. I think we saw his high-water mark last year and I don’t think he will get enough innings/PAs to have a chance to be a 2.5 WAR player. TLR doesn’t value defense all that much, so if Kennedy struggles offensively (which I think is nearly certain) TLR will trot somebody else out there. The 22.0 UZR/150 only comes into play if he actually plays 150 games and he can sustain a rate that was 33% higher than his previous best. If I was going to do a WAR projection for Kennedy I would say his offense will be about -7, his UZR/150 will be about 15 while playing half time for a +7.5 on defense with a replacement level adjustment of about 10 and a positional adjustment of about 1.25 for a total of 11.75 or about 1.2 wins.

I just can’t defend a dude who might have the ugliest swing I have ever seen on a MLB hitter.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 7, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

It seems like La Russa has really soured on Kennedy. But TLR does value defense first players especially at the middle positions.

Also Ray Durham would be a perfect fit for this club. He could easily make his way into the starting role if Kennedy struggles out of the gate and he could actually be very valuable. He is an excellent hitter for a second baseman and his defense isn’t as bad as people think. Using UZR he is about average.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 7, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You are going to have to convince me

that TLR values defense first players. If that is the case then why didn’t Kennedy, and Izturis, get more PT? Why did he try so hard to force Duncan into the lineup? Why does he delight in playing so many players out of position? The answer to all those questions is that he prefers offense.

I just can’t agree with you on this one. If Tony LaRussa called me up on my cell and told me so himself I still would believe it.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 7, 2009 8:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Damn

I could have sworn I hit reply.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 7, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well the fact that he SIGNED Izturis

to be the everyday shortstop and gave him 450 PA despite the fact that he was a worse hitter than two of our pitchers this year, shows that he values defense first. Also Renteria, Matheny, Vina and Molina are all guys where were no hit all field guys when TRL acquired them.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 7, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

TLR didn't acquire anybody

WJ did the acquire-ing ;)

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 7, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What about Ray Durham?

He had a good year last year between the Giants and the Brewers. Apparently he has not even been offered a contract yet. Seem cheap and some kind of Upgrade over what we currently have and last year he was pretty average with the glove.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 7, 2009 9:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i smell

minor league deal with invite to st from several teams, so i suspect it will take ml contract to get him. seems a good bargin for cards because they can, if need be, cut him early not pay neven the paltry sum he is likely to get.

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 7, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so far the Cardinals are the only team that's talked to him

if no one else calls he’s going to retire in a few weeks. he wants a guaranteed deal. but for now it looks like he’s not going to get it.

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 7, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the article on espn said he wouldn't take a $850K utility infielder deal which seemed to be the

only way he’d get to our club. i think he won’t get a $2M type deal.

by tom s. on Feb 7, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well we defenitely still have money too spend

Even if the FO won’t admit it. We had 9 million for Fuentes, so spending 2 million for 1 year wouldn’t exactly cripple us.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 8, 2009 1:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he has no other offers...

Why would we offer him what he’s asking for? That’s just beyond stupidity - you take away all the leverage that you have in the negotiation. He’d be nuts not to take a 1Y$1M$1.5M deal with the Cardinals because he’d be given a chance to compete for the job. Hell, it’s possible he would beat AK out of the job in Spring Training if he comes in and hits. The worst case is that he’s a platoon player at second base and plays against lefties. He could also probably fill in at third base from time to time, so the playing time is probably going to be there.

You have to appeal to his desire to play one more season and make another million bucks. I think that he sees a market where there are valuable players still available, so he thinks that there’s still going to be a guaranteed deal out there. If he doesn’t get something in the next couple of weeks, I think he will open up to joining up in a reserve role to get one last payday.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 9, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm all about Durham

He got a little lost in the midst of the Sabathia trade, but Durham posted a 280/.369/.477 line with league average defense for the Brew Crew last year. I gotta think he’s a pretty damn useful guy to have around to face righties, against whom he hit .303/.385/.452 in 2008. His fielding looks to be league-average. I know he doesn’t jive with the whole youth movement thing, but what’s the difference if the guy costs next to nothing? He sure is more of a sure thing than Thurston and Co. And hell, he could lead off. His walk rate is rising as his career comes toward its end.

Durham had an awful year in 2007, and I think that’s what’s scaring teams away (unless he’s making demands we don’t know about). But it looks to me like it’s just a blip in an otherwise steady career. Or, to use something I found on Fangraphs:



The only scary thing I see is that his BABIP was a little high last year.

If any team is gonna give him ABs, it’d be the Cardinals with LaRussa at the helm. Unfortunately, Mo has said publicly that they’re not considering Durham. There could be unknown factors who knows.

Unrelated fun fact: I searched FanGraphs for Durham, and a guy came up whose name was “Miles Durham.” That threw me a little.

by mojowo11 on Feb 11, 2009 5:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm in full agreement

the peak in BB% is actually a bad thing, though- peaks like that usually mean he’s about to crash. but if he’s league-average defensively- somethign I still find hard to believe- then he’d be a great pickup even for $2-3M.

"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo

by SleepyCA on Feb 11, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

2B

We really don’t need to worry about 2B. Do you think it’s second base why we lost so many close games last year. No, it was pitching. We need to address pitching, pitching, pitching.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Feb 8, 2009 1:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Do you seriously think

That one million is going to make that much of a difference on next year’s pitching?

by Taskmaster on Feb 8, 2009 2:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand the question

Do you think that the pitching help will cost 1 million or that the second baseman will cost one million?

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 8, 2009 2:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I mean that

Ray Durham will come to his senses and play for us for about 1 million

by Taskmaster on Feb 8, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What's the point?

Will he really outplay Thurston and Kennedy? I don’t think so. He’d just be taking up a roster spot. We could use that one million to take a chance on a reliever instead.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Feb 8, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who

Which reliever could we get that could actually help us for one million. I don’t think that Thurston or Schumaker or Barden is a very good backup plan if Kennedy sucks. Ray Durham was a 2.7 WAR player last year in only 450 at bats. He had a .380 OBP. I would say that Durham is a sure upgrade over Thurston/Schu/Barden and is probably a little better than Kennedy. At least he would make an excellent platoon partner for him.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 8, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I voted something else

Only because I’d like to see the Cards go after Roberts, but only if an extension could be worked out for 2-3 years (but I’m sure he’ll want more years than that). But, with the way things are going as far as player signings he may be up for it.

After that I say let AK finish the year and see what happens next offseason.

Although I have little faith that the Cards would outbid anyone for Roberts if/when he becomes a free agent.

by AirForceCardsFan on Feb 8, 2009 3:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1

i also felt it pointless to vote for that option

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 8, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Since O-Cab, Grud, O-Hud and Durham are still floating around out there.....

It seems almost inevitable that one of these guys will still be unsigned in March and will be picked up on the cheap, although the O-guys will cost the 1st round pick. But if O-Cab or O-hud have to come all the way down to a 1 yr deal around 3 mil or so, I say go for it; If those guys depart after 2009 as Type As again, then we could get the draft pick back.

Same with LOOGYs: Beimel, Ohman, and Guardado, and some lesser guys are still unsigned. Unfortunately the SP market is down to just Looper(who will get at least 2 years from the Os) before you go down to the Loaiza/Benson tier. I kind of thought that Odalis Perez would be a decent choice if we had to sink that low, but the Nats brought him back.

I wouldn’t want to trade Rasmus/Wallace for Uggla outright. I would be interested in a mega-blockbuster with the Fish in which we received Uggla + Volstad for a big package of our prospects. But I think that that is a little too profound to even contemplate. I’d hate to blunder like the Tigers did last offseason(I bet they wish they had Jurrjens and Maybin back.)

by Czechguardsman on Feb 8, 2009 4:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Tigers
But I think that that is a little too profound to even contemplate. I’d hate to blunder like the Tigers did last offseason(I bet they wish they had Jurrjens and Maybin back.)

I don’t know about that. The Tigers got one of best players in the game in Miguel Cabrera and they were able to sign him to a long term extension. Even though Don-trelle was a bust, it still looks like a good deal in hindsight.

The Jurrjens deal was obviously terrible though.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 8, 2009 5:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if we offer arb!

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 8, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Per MLBTR..

Astros may be pursuing Adam Dunn…

Pence
Berkman
Lee
Dunn
Tejada

thats a pretty scary 2-6…though Tejada may regress even more as he comes down off the juice

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 8, 2009 11:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I thought the Astros

had even less money than the Cards!!!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

and....BEN SHEETS!!! **

**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)

by mattyfrommo on Feb 8, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

According to Baseball Almanac

Last year, the Cardinals had a payroll of $100.624M while the Astros had a payroll of $88.93M. Whether or not these numbers are 100% accurate (I doubt they are) I highly doubt they’re off by so much that would erase almost 12 million dollars.

Source

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt they could get him for a 1 year deal.

He’s got a multi-year deal on the table with the Nationals and while he doesn’t want to play there, it’s probably better than going through all this again next year while being 1 year older.

Plus, he could always get traded at the deadline next year to a contender and if he does, great, he’s already got his deal in place and now he’s not on the Nationals anymore.

What strikes me as odd is he’s got two former teammates on the Nationals in Austin Kearns and Wily Mo Pena. While I doubt he hangs out with Pena, he might with Kearns.

I knew both of them when they played A ball in Rockford, but I can’t remember if they hung out. I’ve got another source who knew them and actually hung out with them a lot, so I gotta check that out.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently

my hunch was correct. They get along fine, but don’t really hang out or are good buddies or anything.

So, he’s probably indifferent about Kearns being on the Nats. Not enough to influence him one way or another.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

conventional wisdom at the time of the kearns trade

was that dunn and kearns were BFF’s. I remember articles saying that Dunn was pretty upset when it happened.

here’s an funny article talking about the dynamic between them. Dunn is “a wanted man” in DC, apparently.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 9, 2009 12:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wow

an outfield of dunn/pence/lee will be incredibly bad.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 8, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

defense is overrated

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

and....BEN SHEETS!!! **

**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)

by mattyfrommo on Feb 8, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought that Pence was good?

Or at least average.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2009 1:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good LF/RF

well below-average in CF. Flank him with 2 awful corner guys and comedy will ensue.

Though Lee was surprisingly not-that-bad in ’08.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 9, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How does UZR

factor in the relative lack of space in LF in Houston, or does it?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 9, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Howard has new contract w/Phillies

Phils’ Howard agrees on 3 years, $54M

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:

by gocards62 on Feb 8, 2009 1:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

$18 mil per year

We’re paying Albert something like 16 per right? Not bad for the Phils. I think we’re gonna have to shell out at least $22 mil a year for the Mang when the time comes, but I could be way off too.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 8, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Offer the mang

an extension now while the economy is bad. $22 mill per year might look a lot of money in 2009 but it may end up being a whole lot less when 2012 rolls around (assuming the Mayan clock prophesy is incorrect).

by jjray on Feb 8, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Mayan Clock is right

then hell, give him all the money the organization could possibly offer cause it wouldn’t matter for very long!

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 8, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Back load that MOFO in 2013!!!!!!!!!!

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 8, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Man,

Why couldn’t the world end after Christmas? Now I’ll be sad that I will be just a few days away from free stuff!

by Taskmaster on Feb 8, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wow. wasn't howard asking for $18m?

i guess if you really think he’ll get MORE expensive.

seems like a lot to guarantee to a one-dimensional 1b — granted that dimension is a great dimension, but still, it seems strange to negotiate like this:

“we’ll give you $14M to play in 2009.”

"no, I want $18M.

“okay, we’ll give you $18M every year through 2011.”

by tom s. on Feb 8, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Phillies

make questionable financial decisions. See: Ibanez, Raul.

by spants on Feb 8, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a lot of money for a guy who had three months of OPS below .800 last year

He was beyond putrid in April, well below average in June, and not very good in August. He made up for that by going bat-shit crazy the other three months of the year.

I remember discussions in April whether he was worth the $10M that he won in arbitration last year. If he OPS’s below .700 with 5 homers in April this year, Philly fans will be ready to run him out of town. Couple that with the less weapons in the lineup behind him, and I’m not sure he’s going to be worth that amount of money over the next three years.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 9, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure Philly fans would ever be ready to run Howard out of town

He’s their golden boy. He’s like the Jeter of the Phillies. He can do no wrong.

by mojowo11 on Feb 11, 2009 5:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They nearly did it last season

Philly fans nearly ran McNabb and Iverson out of town — and those are the two best players to play in Philly in the last 2 decades.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 11, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Because neither are very consistent

If Howard regresses in 1-2 years, I am sure we will hear trade talks for him from Philly fans.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 11, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i thought they were crazy for booing rolen out

but now i see why

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Feb 13, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Philly fans

Have always hated McNabb

by Evilfrog on Feb 20, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Literally

When they drafted McNabb instead of Williams I remember they booed the hell out of him while he was going up to the podium. McNabb is like the anti-JeterInNewYork…he can’t do anything right for those fans. He could win a Super Bowl, cure cancer, solve the world’s economic woes, bring peace in the Middle East and Darfur, and buy every single Iggles fan a year’s supply of cheesesteaks, and they’d boo him for not helping the Flyers win the Cup.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 21, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so yeah

i just realized that pujols and howard will now both be free agents the same year (after 2011), if we don’t lock albert up first. As well as James Loney, Adrian Gonzalez, David Ortiz, Todd Helton, Mike Jacobs and Lance Berkman. And, uh, Chris Duncan.

Is this good news, or bad news? I guess the yankees won’t be on the market, and there will be a horde of superstar 1B’s available at the same time, but we’ll have to compete with the astros, red sox and phillies. Can you imagine the numbers albert would put up, playing at citizen’s joke park? Hell, he might hit .400 playing in Boston, bouncing line drives off the green monster.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Feb 9, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Or in Minute Maid?

He has 22 homers in 276 at bats there and then of course there is this.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Too bad Mark "Zombie" Mulder went out two nights later and was his usual unenthusiastic self

The Mets are who I am worried about as far as who is the biggest threat to snag a FA Pujols. It is pointless to bring up this freaking out over Albert discussion again, but all the factors are there for the Mets to outbid the world for Albert….

Omar Minaya loves all Latino players, and Albert would unite with all of his countrymen.

The Mets can offer him a ridiculous contract that the Cards can’t hope to match.

Albert lived for a period of time in New York.

The Mets have no long term commitment at 1B, unlike the Yanks.

The supposed “lure” of the big apple.

I think when it is all said and done, Albert will remain a Cardinal. But I would hate to see him wearing any pinstripes, especially blue and orange ones. I would also hate to see him wear that stupid red C on his cap.

by Czechguardsman on Feb 9, 2009 2:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

uh, very interesting

here’s hoping the Cards lock Albert up before 2011. i don’t want to replace the best 1st basemen in the game with one that’s only good quality is hitting the hell out of a baseball.

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 9, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lance Berkman

Going strictly on numbers Berkman would make a lot of sense. He would be a little older, but his skill set (walks, contact and power) tend to age well. If the difference in cost outweighed the difference in value, then it would make sense.

Wait…what am I talking about. If Pujols leaves I will assassinate DeWitt and Moz.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 9, 2009 1:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i got a feeling you'll have to take a number

because the the blue hair’s in the green seats & the hoosier’s in the bleachers & nose bleed sections will probably beat you to it.

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 9, 2009 1:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Looper

to sign with Brewers.

As a Brewers fan I’m not that enthused. Like many people I watch pitchers perform with the Cards and then not do as well elsewhere. Like many people I wonder if its the Duncan influence or effect. I see Suppan pitch and then MLB network runs the Cards playoff run to a title and watch the Suppan games and to me he looks the same. I watched Looper last year and he was disciplined and pretty consistent but not all that impressive.

Am I wrong about Soup? Do Cards fans watch him now and see a difference in his pitching? Do you think that Loop will be about the same?

My personal bias doesn’t like soft tossers much, but when the season is underway will Cards fans be worried when Soup, Loop or Bush are on the schedule?

by ol Pete on Feb 9, 2009 1:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think a lot is the defense...

Duncan’s pitch to contact style of pitching needs a good defense. Usually the Cardinals have that, and well, the Brewers don’t. Heck, even ignoring Duncan, a better defense will help a pitcher.

I think the first year you had Suppan, the defense hurt him. But now he’s just getting old (and bad).

Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)

by DiscoJer on Feb 9, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kennedy Released!

Just saw this and have to say i’m pretty surprised. We’re eating his entire $4 million he is owed this year. whoa!

Why don't we get glausy eyed and put back some franklin's....

by punksoulbrutha on Feb 9, 2009 1:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

and

the .380 OBP he put up last year would look mighty fine in front of Pujols.

by hghallstar on Feb 9, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion

There is no way that Kennedy would have been released unless Mo had some trade or some signing up his sleeve. Is he thinking Hudson or trading for Uggla/Kinsler?

by Taskmaster on Feb 9, 2009 3:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

no one will make a good trade

w/us because we have now acknowledged the gaping hole at 2B.

I vote to stick with internal solution (Thurston, Barden, BRyan, Hoff) or wildcard (Skip, Freese, Craig, Mather).

Clearly Don Tony wanted more O here than D.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:

by gocards62 on Feb 9, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly...

If Mo was going to use an outside source to replace Kennedy, he would have acquired them first, then he would have dumped Kennedy.

Because that way he at least would have some leverage. This way, the player (or other team) has all the leverage.

Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)

by DiscoJer on Feb 9, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

in a radio interview

with Bernie…Mo was pretty adament that they had no intentions to even inquire about hudson, cabrera, etc…so I think theres a certain level of commitment to go with the current guys unless they all turn out to be failures in ST

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 9, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

apparently not

but i’m sure his boss, tlr, has asked

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 11, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I don’t see anything happening as far as free agency. Atleast untill we start going through ST. Tony is a smart coach, if the young guys aren’t cutting it we will probably see a stop gap like Durham or Grudzy.

by mattscards77 on Feb 9, 2009 10:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Should the Cards...

have made Jeff Weaver a similar offer to what he got from the Dodgers (500K if he makes the club as a reliever) to compete for the 5th starter spot in case Carp isn’t healthy? I do recall people wanting to re-sign Weaver after the ’06 season until Boras marked up the price by 125%.

He pitched well late in ‘06, so why couldn’t he be serviceable again under Duncan? I still believe that some of the youth should be used, but for 500K, that would have been a decent insurance policy in case the youth proves to be not ready to perform.

Couldn’t we have traded Kennedy somewhere and eaten only 3.5 million of his contract and used the remaining 500K to sign a player like Weaver, and then also ended up with an average prospect?

by Jumsy on Feb 10, 2009 10:05 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

If AK is signed we only eat $3.6

If AK can’t find a job for 2009 we pay the entire $4.0MM. The $400k “savings” will pay for Thurston/Ryan/Barden/T-Greene in 2009.

by ubeddie on Feb 10, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Abreu just signed for $5 mil

That’s $1 Mil more than Adam Kennedy is worth. Seems like a steal to me for the Angels.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090210&content_id=3816686&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Feb 11, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

$1 MM more than Adam Kennedy is paid....

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Feb 11, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

haha, yeah, well played.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Feb 12, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

can he play second?

hear he is not into walls

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 12, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

With Dunn & Abreu apparently off the market

and the Braves still hoping to land an OF, I hope Mo picks up the phone and tries to get some Ankiel-for-Kelly Johnson talks going.

"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by TurdFerguson on Feb 11, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That would work out great

but i think they would want another pospect with Ankiel

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 11, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And they won't get it

Johnson is only a slight upgrade of Schu. Okay that might not be true, but Johnson is a terrible defender with a good bat. Schu at least has the potential to be that.

If the Braves were smart they would move Johnson back to left field, where he is an excellent defender, and sign Orlando Cabrera. There defense would improve by 20 runs (estimate) and there offense wouldn’t take that much of a hit as they would basically be replacing Matt Diaz with Orlando Cabrera.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nats

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 11, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

HERE

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 11, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

whoa! missed that.

man, that’s the dc motto, right?

follow the money.

I’d rather be abreu on the angels at $5m than play for washington for $10m.

by tom s. on Feb 11, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Although the Nats offense could be pretty potent next year if Dukes and Milledge stay healthy and Zimmerman returns to form. That’s a good 3,4,5 with Zimmerman, Dunn, and Dukes with Milledge hitting in the 2 hole and Anderson Hernandez leading off.

Also, why aren’t the Angels interested in Manny? It seems inexplicable that they aren’t…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 11, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I could make a list

but it would probably be as long as a fanpost.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 11, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

at any rate, this should solidify the dodgers-manny link, for good or ill.

there’s nobody else that i see getting in on this bidding. I can’t see the angels adding yet another name to the 1b/of/dh mix they’ve got going on right now.

manny’s lost almost all his leverage. most of the clubs who’d had big holes in these spots look like they’ve filled them. even at a discount, manny’s contract is a little too rarified for most other candidates. I can’t think of a team right now likely to cough up more than $15M that has a big LF or DH hole.

LA just needs to set a price. The Dodgers have lost some leverage over Manny, since they now have little in the way of other OF to poach off the FA market, but they can still trade for the Rick Ankiels of the world now. So I think they’re in the driver’s seat here.

by tom s. on Feb 11, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They should set something like 3/52

Because they are only bidding against themselves. If Manny doesn’t want that, good luck getting a contract.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 11, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

disagree

with abreu and dunn signing, the Dodgers now have no backup plan. Manny has all the leverage now.

The dodgers blew it, imho; Boras called their bluff. I’ll be shocked if Manny gets less than 3/60.

(we’ll see how it works out, as always…)

"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo

by SleepyCA on Feb 11, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Dodgers still have options

They could still sign Orlando Hudson or Orlando Cabrera and trade for an outfielder (Ankiel) with there rotation depth.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm really not sure they have that much depth in the rotation

They just lost Penny and Lowe. I’m sure that this would be the perfect opportunity to use their young guys.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 11, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well they just signed Jeff Weaver

So they basically have replaced Lowe.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 11, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you type that

with a straight face?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 11, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

dodgers need ank or luddy

are he really worth more than both of them?

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 11, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

think we can pry Clayton Kershaw from them?

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 11, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i imagine that would take alot more than ank

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Feb 13, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Nats' signing of done might be an attempt to gain prospects

This might be off base, but this is what I think they might be thinking. They are giving up a draft pick in signing him, and they know they won’t contend. What they are trying to do is leverage Dunn to a contender as the trade deadline approaches, and land a couple of bonafide prospects.

Am I off base here? Or is this just inexplicable?

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.

by Gregatron on Feb 13, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If anything

People might actually come to see him play.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 13, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

voted something else

gauge skips ability to pass or fail at 2B by mid-ST. make a durham acquisition if necessary. revisit the position by july 1 and make an acquisition of a FA-to-be if necessary, if there is a realistic post-season run to be made. a polanco, roberts or de rosa type may become available, or even one of the orlando’s if they sign a 1 yr deal.

doubt the season hinges on 2B production. if carp and the bullpen (pitching overall) have kept us in the hunt, look for an 2B deadline acquistion, that could be resigned to a multi-year extension before he hits the FA market.
that’s if skip doesn’t have good enough infielder skills.

skips 2010-2012 arb1-3 years should not break the bank at 2B with his lack of power / rbi numbers in the leadoff role. this could be an in-house solution to 2B for 3 yrs, so it’s definitly worth looking outside the box for a best case scenario.

by ball in play on Feb 12, 2009 9:18 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

or a 4 year solution

if skip surprises and jumps in there and handles the role this year.

by ball in play on Feb 12, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

goold said friday in his article.
The arbitration decision won’t be known until, at the earliest, Friday.

linkitude.

by tom s. on Feb 12, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ank & Cards agree on contract

Agree to split the difference before the hearing per SI’s John Heyman. $2.825 for next year.

by ubeddie on Feb 12, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm all for signing Ray Durham, I can't see a real reason not to.

1) He doesn’t have huge splits
2) He’ll be reasonably cheap, especially if you consider how much miles is going to make
3) He’s not hold back any promising players. Bunch of AAAA players, below average prospects, and an outfielder are the current 2B options.

I have a feeling that we aren’t going to sign him unless he’s still there when and if they get desperate.

If we had just signed Looper and Durham I’d feel pretty good about the team going into the season. It’s pretty sad this isn’t the vision of the organization, it’s really not much costly than their current approach.

by TheBirds on Feb 12, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Anyone interested in a fantasy baseball league?

Look in the fanshots if you’re interested.

by JoeyBombs on Feb 13, 2009 11:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Player to be named Later.....

link
How does the player to be named later work (this is for the Greene trade w/ the Padres)? The article says that “San Diego will choose from a list of three players, two of them pitchers”. Is that correct? Who determines that list? Any ideas as to who’s on the list? Is it players not on the 40 man? I apologize if my ignorance is blinding, I just don’t know how it works!

by WyoCardsFan on Feb 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think

both teams decided on a list at the time of the deal and the Padres have 6 months to decide who that player is. That’s my understanding of the rule.

by JoeyBombs on Feb 14, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

GOD DAMMIT

I’m actually not pissed though. If he is bad then he won’t make the team or he will just pitch mopup duty. If he is able to return to 2007 form, then he would be one of the better relievers in the game and would definitely help us. Either way it means that Puppy Kicker won’t be on the team.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 14, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think with statements made about Motte & Perez earlier in the offseason

I would be shocked if both of them are on the team if Izzy makes it. I bet Puppy Kicker is safe, you have to have a long man with this rotation.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

and....BEN SHEETS!!! **

**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)

by mattyfrommo on Feb 14, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Keeping options open...

I’m glad the Cards would wait until March to sign him.

The Cardinals are keeping their options open and they could strike a deal if Izzy doesn’t yet have a job in two or three weeks.

Don’t want to wear out his arm before the season.

by ubeddie on Feb 14, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Springer's discount was about 3 million

Izzy will likely be on a minor league deal. Plus the whole point in signing Izzy would be to get a proven closer (whatever that means). Springer doesn’t fill that role.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 14, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

at this point

either does Izzy!

Too early for zingers?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

and....BEN SHEETS!!! **

**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)

by mattyfrommo on Feb 14, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting 40 man roster fact (at least to me)

Right now the Cards have six spots open on the 40 man roster. Looking at other clubs, the Mets are the next lowest with only 37 spots taken on the 40. The White Sox have 38, and five clubs have used 39. All the others are using the full 40 man roster.

As to using the six spots, one spot will be used for Glaus’ fill in, another is being reserved for Colby and a third is probably set for a Thurston to platoon at 2B. That will still leave 3 spots on the 40 man roster. Don’t know where I was going with this comment. Need to start the season soon so I don’t spend any more Saturday nights counting 40 man rosters.

by ubeddie on Feb 15, 2009 12:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I read somewhere that we would had 1 or 2 more starters to the 40 man

I think it was in the Kennedy release article that we were planning on adding a few more starters to the 40 man. If we can get Pedro cheap I think we should just to try it out.

by JoeyBombs on Feb 15, 2009 12:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Here's the list

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=avail&positionId=15&season=2008

Livan Hernandez was signed by the Mets a few hours ago, disregard him.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 15, 2009 3:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

there's not a pitcher on the list worth taking.

ick. i guess if we find carp, boggs, and our other pitchers come up lame, i’d take byrd over the rest, for the you know what your getting slot, but i’d rather see todd, kmac, walters or boggs than anybody here.

by tom s. on Feb 15, 2009 4:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

I do believe in Dave Duncan’s evil powers to harness dark forces and raise the dead. The man is a bonafide necromancer.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.

by Gregatron on Feb 15, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Chuck James

Finally a pitcher with some potential. I think is injured/coming off major surgery, but he has some pretty solid numbers in his career -08 and he is only 27. He might be worth giving a shot, at the worst he is one more pitcher who might take Pinata’s spot.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 15, 2009 4:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What about Pedro

if he pitches decent in the WBC I would love to see us go after him if not I know this wont be popular but maybe Mulder again on a minor league deal.

by eburn40oz on Feb 15, 2009 12:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you

I think Mulder might become a great bargain.

by WyoCardsFan on Feb 15, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sweet cracker sandwich, are you all serious?

just say no to Mulder. no no no no no, a 1000 times no

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 15, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 15, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

a minor league deal

 with incentives will be awesome when he comes back and wins the CY young.

by WyoCardsFan on Feb 15, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

put

down

the

tequila

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 15, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that one

would require some good Mezcal.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 15, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the worm

would be drunk enough to do that deal

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

and....BEN SHEETS!!! **

**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)

by mattyfrommo on Feb 15, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that was sarcasm, right?

It just had to be. Doesn’t Mulder actually have to prove that he can actually get that arm to a slot to where he can throw, then show he can do something that he hasn’t done in over 2 and a half seasons; get through a major league game without that freaking arm falling off again.

And yes he should be a great bargain, because we should be able to pick him up for 5 dollars.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

and....BEN SHEETS!!! **

**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)

by mattyfrommo on Feb 15, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He should play for free

He owes us.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 15, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the CY part is.

but, as you say we should be able to pick him up for 5 dollars, and also as viva says, he owes us. As much money as the Cards have put into his ‘rehab’, it would go a little ways towards justifying it if we pay him nothing to come back and find an arm again. I wouldn’t dare to go comparing him to another unnamed free agent injury-prone pitcher, but I think if it wasn’t the Cardinals that poured so much money into him we would all be looking at this a little differently.

by WyoCardsFan on Feb 15, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

can you think of another pitcher who has gone 3 years without pitching

effectively and then come back? name one, and then I’ll say it’s just our feeling burned.

for now, i think it’s objectively correct to say mulder has no meaningful chance of being even a league average pitcher in 2009, because there is no track record of someone struggling through three seasons and coming back.

by tom s. on Feb 15, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I get what you're saying

and it’s more just wishful thinking than anything, you’re such a downer!

by WyoCardsFan on Feb 15, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

p.s.

This guy kinda did it and made it to the HOF. I’m stretching.

by WyoCardsFan on Feb 15, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i give you full points for your WWI era HOF'er.

Sorry to be debbie downer. mark mulder has that effect on me.

by tom s. on Feb 15, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am with you tom

and I have to give it to some people for their optimism regarding Mulder. I wish I had that kind of optimism.

Still…
pass
the
tequila

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

and....BEN SHEETS!!! **

**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)

by mattyfrommo on Feb 15, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if Marky Mark comes back to win a Cy, i'll eat all the worms in Mexico

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 15, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

very good news. the WBC is a joke anyway, i don't want any Cardinal player involved.

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 15, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

on both the WBC being a complete joke and on not wanting cardinal players involved. I think i’d be in favor of a minor league WBC though, just because it would be a good chance to get a good look at the prospects on other teams as well as our own.

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 15, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

To minor league WBC. That would be interesting. Would it be the “Take 2” of the Olympics, though? Even if so, the Olympics is only every 4 years.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Feb 15, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

baseball isn't in the olympics anymore

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 15, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, yes, I had forgotten.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Feb 15, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn

/sarcasm

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 15, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

as long as ...

miguel cairo is still playing, I feel that there could be a trade or signing of him on any given day. we are never safe from seeing miguel in cardinal red….especially with this 2b situation

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 15, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I found our closer with veteran presence! Veteran presence with a capital V!

Oil Can Boyd wants back in.

Dennis “Oil Can” Boyd has long felt the game of baseball was taken away from him far too soon. He was 31 years old when he threw his last pitch for the Texas Rangers in 1991. But now, at age 49, Boyd believes his shoulder is stronger than ever. He says his velocity is up in the low 90s and the 12-6 curveball and changeup have returned. He wants a chance to show a major league team he can still pitch. “I have nothing to lose, and all a major league team has to lose is 15 minutes,” said Boyd. “Give me 15 minutes and I’ll show I can still pitch. That’s all I want.”

I’m down. Can we schedule his throwing session right after mulder’s and right before Izzy’s?

by tom s. on Feb 15, 2009 8:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Please

Least Boyd hasn’t robbed us for a crappy performance (or lack thereof) last year.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 15, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sure he can close & Ricky can come in after the 7th as a defensive replacement in LF

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 15, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey guys, I have an inquiry

Here is the list

Alex Cora (34)
Craig Counsell (39)
Bobby Crosby (30)
Adam Everett (33)
Chris Gomez (39)
Alex Gonzalez (32) – $6MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Khalil Greene (30)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
John McDonald (35)
Marco Scutaro (34)
Miguel Tejada (36)
Omar Vizquel (43)
Jack Wilson (32) – $8.4MM club option with a $600K buyout

That’s the list of available FA shortstops in 2009. Now, if Khalil Greene is very good in 2009, then i assume he is our main target of this list. But if he has a bad 2009 season. That list is VERY weak in depth. What would we possible do to fill our SS hole? Get one from the farm? Trade?

Just curious.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 15, 2009 11:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

There is value there

Alex Gonzalez, Marco Scutaro, Jack Wilson and Bobby Crosby are all guys I would like to see in a Cards uniform. I would also think that Greene (Tyler) will have a big year in AAA this year and be ready to start in 2010.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 15, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i'd have to think...

O. Cabrera will be on this list as well

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 16, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hopefully

not as a type A

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 16, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Very interesting

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/mlb-to-lend-a-h.html

Now, I could honestly give a crap about the Twins business, but the concept of the MLB allowing this, could this work for Cabrera/Hudson? I mean, that would solve a lot of our problems, but it has a drawback. A team like the Yankees could sign these guys without being held back (even though they probably gave up all their draft picks), but a team like the RedSox or mets also could sign without penalty. Opinions?

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 16, 2009 8:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

one reason maybe we didn't get in on a year of t. johnson. rotoworld:
The Seattle Post Intelligencer reports that Tyler Johnson (shoulder) “will be held out of workouts for the next week and perhaps longer.”
Johnson missed all of last season following shoulder surgery. “It’s tough for him, but we think it’s just inflammation,” manager Don Wakamatsu said. “He knows he has to be 100 percent to help us.”

by tom s. on Feb 16, 2009 3:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I just saw that Tony Graffanino signed a minor league deal with the Tribe. I thought he might have been

a good option from the lower tier of middle infielders. But the Mariners just released Tug Hulett!!!!

by Czechguardsman on Feb 16, 2009 4:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else nervous about the possibility of Izzy coming back still looming around?

If he is invited to camp he’s making the big league club, I really don’t trust the Cards to remain objective concerning Izzy.

by TheBirds on Feb 16, 2009 6:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't care if he makes the team as long as he starts the year as the long man.

I think what happened to izzy last year was sort of the same thing that happened to Aaron Harang. Harang was just crusing along with his ERA in the mid 3.00s late into May when he had to go pitch 5 innings in relief in an 18 inning game on two days rest. Then, he went out three days later and made his next start like nothing happened. As you will see by looking at his game log, he was just getting crushed after his relief appearance and his season was in the toilet. I think coming out of the bullpen messed him up physically and then had him going too tired to pitch without enough of a break for the next couple months.

I do think that Izzy was overworked and pushed too hard out of the gate and all of that wore him down for the rest of the year. Who knows how his season would have turned out if Franklyn could have spelled Izzy for a couple vulture saves in April so Izzy could pace himself. But I think now the problem might just be that Izzy has worn out his welcome in STL and he might not have the confidence to pitch here anymore. Still, if Izzy rebounded after 06, why can’t he have a mild rebound in 09.

by Czechguardsman on Feb 17, 2009 4:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

especially about the last 2 sentences.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 17, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it is possible

but he is 36 years old and coming out from under the knife yet again.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

and....BEN SHEETS!!! **

**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)

by mattyfrommo on Feb 17, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

amusing.

accidentally clicked on an old SI story about a-rod and this caught my eye.

If anything, the 31-year-old Rodriguez works too hard, crams too many bits of information into his head. He even studies videotape shot from centerfield cameras to see if he can decode patterns in catchers’ signal sequences with a runner on second base.

“I can’t help that I’m a bright person,” he said last month. “I know that’s not a great quote to give, but I can’t pretend to play dumb and stupid.”

And, yes, on the other side of the SI page — a picture of A-Rod encaptioned “Young and Stupid”. Apparently, A-Rod grew up a lot between 2003 and 2006. Or perhaps his “pretending” is getting better.

by tom s. on Feb 17, 2009 3:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I dunno, that kind of seems like apples and oranges to me

There is intelligence in the sense of having high cognitive and information processing ability, and then there is stupidity in the sense of making bad decisions. These two are not really mutually exclusive. Look at Bill Clinton. He is one of the most innately intelligent people to ever be president, yet he almost ruined it all for some head from an intern.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.

by Gregatron on Feb 18, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Know-how versus Wisdom

There’s tons of information out there, and a whole lot of know-how. But wisdom is still in too-short supply.

by mattybobo on Feb 18, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sign-and-trade for Cruz?

Since there is now (maybe?) the possibility for a sign-and-trade deal in baseball, what do you guys think about Juan Cruz? This eliminates giving up our coveted 1st-round pick. Although we would have to trade a prospect in the process, it would seemingly be much less than the value of a 1st rounder (otherwise, what’s the point).

by bmorgan on Feb 17, 2009 5:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

meh. if you look at his peripherals, he sometimes has a great K rate, though it sometimes falls off.

but he always has a huge BB rate. he’s had two good years in a row, but he’s had a lot of crappy years too. i guess if you think his control has definitively improved, he’s a good candidate. i’d certainly love a guy who pitched 12K’s/9 IP. if you think he’s bound to regress, he’s probably no better than perez (they have pretty similar projections). and we’re adding to a role where we have substantial depth.

it would depend on the money and the prospect. If he wants $4m and the d-backs want samuel, no. if they want some collateral prospect, and he’ll settle for $1m, sure. but i bet there’d be other teams more interested in him than us if that were the asking price. I guess the short answer is, not for any price the d-backs and cruz are likely to take.

by tom s. on Feb 17, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would rather do that for someone like Hudson.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 17, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brian Barton = one of the PTBNL choices in Greene trade?

For some reason this idea just occurred to me. He’s pretty expendable here and seems like a reasonable fit for the padres who are looking for cheap MLB ready talent. I could see him being one of the players based on the perspective of both ends.

by TheBirds on Feb 17, 2009 7:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good fit for Padres

too much talent to give away for the Cards. Barton is a good player, much better than Worrell. He could be starting on a lot of other teams.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 17, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

PTBNL not on the 40-man roster

I don’t have a link, but I remember reading that the PTBNL was not on the 40-man roster at the time the trade was made. Unless I’m mistaken, Barton has been on the roster since he arrived in STL.

"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe

by fatbellyjefferson on Feb 17, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good

I like Barton, and want to see him stay here. He is one guy I don’t think we talk about nearly enough.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.

by Gregatron on Feb 18, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pineiro for Longoria

it was a fleecing by Mo

by bmorgan on Feb 17, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Can he play 2B?

We got plenty of 3rdbasemen…..

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 18, 2009 8:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well in that case our infield should look like this:

1B Albert
2B Walrus
SS Spicoli
3B Freese

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 18, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Catcher

And we put Molina in LF, Rasmus in CF, Luddy in RF

Then we have a kick-ass bench of:

Schu
Mather
Ank
Barton
Pornstache

All of whom can play the OF and 2B. And when Troy gets healthy, we put him in the rotation and DFA Piniero.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 18, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

schu

to the backs for hudson

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Feb 17, 2009 9:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Joel must be detached from reality
"As a Puerto Rican guy I’ve been doing it the last eight years. Why not know? What happened in ‘06? How come I started in ‘06?"

Are you completely unaware of your ’08 season Joel?

"I’m very disappointed. I can’t believe I’m talking to you guys about this."

What I can’t believe is that management is paying him $7.5 mil to post a FIP of 4.71. Get over it Joel. Most people don’t put a whole lot of stock in the WBC. Earn your spot on the Cardinals’ rotation in ST. That is what you are being paid to do.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 18, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

indeed...

that was an awful position for oquendo to be in, though.

"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo

by SleepyCA on Feb 18, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Johnathan Sanchez wasn't around in 2006

So that might have something to do with it. That and the fact that the other three pitchers on the list are better than Joel Piniero.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 18, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

pineiro's lack of understanding as to how this will play with StL fans is stunning.

unless this is more a play for PR fans. but this seems like a remarkably tin-eared way for an overpaid, underperforming pitcher to play the game.

good luck going into your walk year as the long-man/mop-up guy, Joe-L. pissing off both the fanbase and field management can’t help you at this point.

by tom s. on Feb 18, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He must think because

he is the second highest paid starter in the rotation, he should be treated as the no. 2 starter on the team. Sorry Joel, that’s not how that works.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 18, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and also, what's with this whine about "i already bought tickets for my family?"

Really, Joel? You make $2m more in base salary this year than Andy F*#@ing Pettitte, who will likely be more valuable this April than you will all year, and you’re crying about some tickets? You’ve cashed in on the cardinals about 15x what you deserved and you’re out a little bit of dough? And these are tickets from south florida to PR, right? Really, Joe-L?

by tom s. on Feb 18, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently

His family can’t enjoy the WBC unless he’s playing…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 18, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That may be true

but the people of Puerto Rico wouldn’t be able to enjoy the WBC if he was pitching.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 18, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cough...anyone remember Joe-L's stats in June of last year?

or the preceding months? I though his ERA was around a nice 3.63 or so, but I have not the time to check at the moment.

Chuck Norris bows to no man...but he does bow to The Mang.

by miniboscorino on Feb 18, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nyet -- i can't get all of those months to get together, but this is what it looks like.

mar/apr – 2W, 2L, 3.75 ERA
May – 0W, 1L, 5.40
June – 0W, 1L, 4.05

Not really outstanding, given the small sample sizes. he pitched four games in each month.

by tom s. on Feb 18, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that would only reinforce the point

that he shouldn’t pitch in the WBC. If he’s a respectable pitcher for only the first few months of the season, why would we want him wasting himself in a worthless exhibition tournament when his arm is at its best?

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Feb 18, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Piniero's ST 2008 was reason we signed Lohse

Joe-L was injured and Mo pulled the trigger on the Lohse deal three days later. His pitching in the WBC would have given someone else innings and may have cost him his spot in the rotation. Now he’ll just have to pitch his way into the bullpen.

by ubeddie on Feb 18, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

spring training trades

anybody else think that the odds of us making a trade are getting better and better everyday we get closer to the season? the list as i see it:

twins –
1) obviously have young pitching that we would love to have
2) would still like to add a 3B and are balking at crede’s price tag
3) however, they also seem to be willing to go into the season with a platoon of their younger 3B’s

giants – pretty much the same situation as the twins
1) they have young pitching which they seem semi-willing to part with
2) they are need of corner infielders
3) also in on crede but can’t agree on numbers

dodgers –
1) still looking for a power hitting OF
2) have both young MI’s and young pitching
3) appears pretty likely that they will sign manny sooner or later

braves –
1) still looking for a left-handed power-hitting OF
2) they have young MI’s that they seem willing to part with (although without lillibridge it seems less likely)
3) they missed out on ken griffey jr but still seem willing to explore older free agent LH OF’s before a trade

all of those teams seem to be good trade partners for us and i hope Mo is keeping the lines of communication open. i want to get to the games already so we can see what kind of value our chips have.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Feb 19, 2009 1:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't see us making a deal with Atlanta

I also think that a deal with the Twins got more complicated when Glaus went in for shoulder surgery. I’m hoping that both Wallace and Freese impress in ST, so maybe we can deal one of them for someone like Bonser to solidify our rotation.

Why aren’t the Braves beating down Manny’s door? They have a platoon in left field and a really crappy player in right field and then need for one more big bat in the lineup. They should have signed Dunn and didn’t, they should have pursued Abreu and didn’t, so they might as well add Manny for this season and make a run at the NL East, right?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 19, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And

By “one of them” I mean Freese :-)

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 19, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really don't know what the Braves payroll is

but I would really be surprised if they had any money left to sign Manny or someone like him. Let’s look at their offseason

Signed Derek Lower to 4/60
Traded for Vazquez, who has a large salary of 10 million? (Not sure on that)
Signed Kenshin kawakami

That’s ALOT of money being spent. I highly doubt they have anywhere near enough to sign Manny.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 19, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Manny

makes almost too much sense for the Braves. They weren’t interested in Abreu or Dunn because they wanted a right handed power bat to stick between Chipper and McCann. Manny is that guy, and if the Dodgers do end up signing Hudson, than they might not want Manny anymore and he might come cheap (er).

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

manny wants too much money (and years) for the braves

given their “almost there” outfield prospects, but Jim Edmonds would be fantastic pickup for 1-2 years, I think.

"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo

by SleepyCA on Feb 19, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"why is it so hot outside?

and who’ll stole my half shirt?"

on second thought, Hollywood may not be the best guy for Hotlanta

BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS

ManRam

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Feb 19, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

when does Nate Silver do his baseball predictions?

he predicted that the Rays would be the best team in the AL last season

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 3:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The only predictions I have seen are from Fox

Bunch of intelligent people up there…. (sarcasm)

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 19, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brian Roberts Extended

4 years and 40 million

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/orioles-brian-r.html

I guess we should hope that Schu does well at 2B.

My avatar is 3 years into the future for sure...

by Taskmaster on Feb 19, 2009 9:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That is a bad move for the Orioles

By the time they are ready to compete, Brian Roberts will be in a decline phase (probably) and taking up a large amount of there payroll which would otherwise be used to make a big upgrade at another position.

Of course, if Roberts continues to rake in 4 years, this team will be completely stacked if the young players work out.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Feb 19, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The O's are done with big money FA's

The Orioles tried to match the Yankees back in the mid to late 90s and buy a team. Never did work out from Albert Belle to Miguel Tejeda. Hiring Andy MacPhail was a great move by Angelos and for the first time since Angelos purchased the team, there is an actual plan being used. The O’s play in a tough division and can’t match the Yankees or Red Sox on budgets but that shouldn’t stop them from developing a successful minor league system.

by ubeddie on Feb 20, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hudson In LA

nuff said.

Chuck Norris bows to no man...but he does bow to The Mang.

by miniboscorino on Feb 20, 2009 8:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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