Elbow Griefs
by DanUpBaby on Feb 6, 2009 8:30 AM EST
173 comments
Good news, bad news: Ben Sheets's contract with the Rangers has apparently fallen through, Sheets's elbow has apparently fallen off. It's reassuring, honestly, to know that Mozeliak and co. were—again, apparently—acting rationally this entire time. This is the end of one of those Three's Company episodes where Jack thinks Chrissy is about to join a cult or kill somebody because of something he heard through the kitchen door, when she is in fact trying to make him a birthday cake. Our long, national nightmare is, if not over, at least cast in a more pleasant light.
The month-long clamor leading up to this is part of the downside of the always-on news cycle that the internet guarantees; what might have been a few newspaper articles about Mozeliak's inaction fifteen years ago became a top story instead, magnified by the laser focus on what pertinent news there is that running a year-round blog/newspaper/TV station demands. There was no new news about Ben Sheets, until yesterday, but there was always—there always had to be, thanks to the nature of the mediums—new discussion.
(On that note, I was glad to see that discussion about Sheets remained more or less civil, if also as tense as can be expected when site-wide dreams of a certain diving 80 mph curveball are unceremoniously dashed.)
Which isn't to say I'm happy about this. Sheets is one of my favorite pitchers to watch, aesthetically, and if all that clamoring had ended in an arbitrarily late signing instead of an arbitrarily late elbow surgery, I'd have happily put off my veiled, nattering sermon about cable news networks until the next time a story gets stretched to untenable lengths. But now, at least, the question changes, and that's exciting in it's own way: the first Chris Carpenter deal started with an entire year on the DL, too.
Speaking of which, is it time to get excited about Chris Carpenter's arm yet? Of course it is—it's February!
Duncan said that team trainer Barry Weinberg told him that Carpenter can have a normal routine in spring training. Carpenter doesn't have to be held back, or handled with extra care. He can throw and get his work in like all of the other pitchers. That's why Duncan is optimistic. Because Carpenter will be ready to go from Day 1 of spring training. No baby steps are needed.
Let's throw this to Dan and Al:
DAN: Well, you know, Al, this is like making that big Spring Training trade, only you don't have to trade anybody!
AL: You know, it really is.
Thanks, guys. I don't think it's possible to overstate how important 20, 25 starts from Chris Carpenter would be to a team that's trying to hide Joel PIneiro and a bunch of fringe-ready prospects in the back of the rotation. It would also mean that the Cardinals' second-largest(!) cash outlay for 2009 wasn't just sitting around the entire year, which would be a major morale boost after the PR nightmare that's set up residence atop this off-season's contractual discussion. A lot of that seemingly onerous, unmanageable Sheets/Ramirez/Lowe ennui would recede if Carpenter goes into May with three wins and the ability to comb his own hair.
Finally, to complete the injured pitcher/great breaking ball trifecta, Tyler Johnson—more importantly, Tyler Johnson's slider—was signed by the Mariners. A minor league deal, presumably healthy to start 2009... I'm not altogether anti-Trever Miller, but what does he offer that Tyler Johnson didn't, besides allowing me the chance to walk away from the TV when he comes in to pitch? Here's hoping T.J. makes the team, because he definitely makes the list of my favorite pitches to watch on TV. Off the top of my head:
- Rick Ankiel's 13-6 curveball
- Ben Sheets's bowling-ball curve
- Tyler Johnson's slider
- Eric Gagne's sinking change
- Rick Ankiel's centerfield fastball
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adam wainwright’s pitch to beltran. curveball i guess. that was gorgeous.
and isringhausen’s cutter is the best pitch in baseball when he locates it.
"So in first grade it was tell about your dad day. Most of the kids came up and said "my daddy’s a doctor" or "my daddy’s a lawyer" or anything like that. Then, it was little Billy’s turn. Little Billy got up in front of his whole class and said "my daddy is an exotic dancer for other men. He performs sex shows for other men and then goes home with them and takes money to do what they ask him to!" His teacher was very shocked, and took him out in the hall. "Why did you say such things?" she said to little Billy. "Well, really, my dad is a Cubs player, but I was too embarrassed to say it in front of the class." - Mr Redbird, from the TESS thread
by adiueordie on Feb 6, 2009 9:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
man
I could watch that all day, but Rivera’s got the best cutter in the game, IMO.
Randy Johnson’s 10-5 slider in his hey day was a damn fine pitch.
by bigkatsu on Feb 6, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when Izzy is IZZY
he has one of the best combination on nasty pitches in the game. The cutter, curveball, and even that oh so rare rising 95MPH fastball the rarely ever comes out anymore.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Feb 6, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I second you on Johnson's slider
and propose an amendment to include Carmona’s sinker, circa 2007.
by arch support on Feb 6, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Johnson's pitch
that used to come off the back of his hand, the one he claimed he never knew what it was going to do, or where it was headed?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 7, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still don't know
why Beltran didn’t swing at that
by saladdays on Feb 6, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
started up in his eyes...
then dropped in the zone. I think he gave up on it, and was gonna take.
You could tell he knew it came back in the zone, but it was too late.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
by cardzfanbub on Feb 6, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right before the pitch, Yadi tapped his glove on the ground
Maybe Beltran saw that and thought Yadi wanted the pitch in the dirt, so he decided not to swing at it.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 6, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember reading an article...
Can’t find it now of course, but it quoted Beltran as saying that he knew exactly what pitch was coming before Adam even threw it, but that it was just that good.
by A1R3Z on Feb 6, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really admired Beltran during all that.
He kept his cool and just acknowledged that Wainer threw a perfect curveball. Wasn’t anything he could really do, c’est la vie. (Is there anybody who doesn’t like Beltran, an if so why? He has always seemed to me to be an awesome player who was kinda low-key)
by mattybobo on Feb 6, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's A-Rod Lite
…to a lot of Mets writers. It’s stupid, because he’s a brilliant player, but people seem to think he could “get more out of his abilities” or whatever just b/c the game seems to come naturally to him. I’ve never heard any teammates have anything bad to say about him or say he doesn’t work hard or whatever…but the writers say so so it must be true, right?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 6, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically
Fuck the NY media.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 6, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Something like that
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 6, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't like him...
during the playoffs when he was in Houston.
by stlfan on Feb 7, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
0-2
Wainwright said they had noticed that once Beltran gets to 2 strikes, he becomes very patient, or I guess selective. I always thought Beltran probably figured they would waste one, so he would only swing at something that looked really good, i.e. not the big bender that he got.
by phesto on Feb 6, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was a hell of a pitch
Beltran said later he could have known it was coming and not been able to hit it.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 6, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
the first thing I thought of was the Waino curve… also, the Carpenter curve. those are my faves
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 6, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trevor Hoffman's
changeup back when his fastball was better. He could make guys look helpless…with a changeup.
by Toddius on Feb 6, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There it is.
I’m reading DanUp’s post and thinking A.W.‘s curve ball doesn’t make this list? Aaah. Sweet memories.
Bob Gibson’s Fast Ball as he falls off the mound. Sitting as a kid at Busch II in the early 70’s with my Dad next to me pointing out the nuances.
by RunSup on Feb 6, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we are allowed
to cite pitches from the past, Daryl Kile’s curveball was a thing of timeless beauty. RIP, Daryl.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 6, 2009 10:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
MattyMo's pre-shoulder problems curve
I think there are gonna be a lot of curves on this list.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Feb 6, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
Darryl Kile’s post-Colorado curve. I would put his curveball up against anyone’s.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Feb 6, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
It was different than Ankiel’s. DK’s curve was a lot like Sheets’s. Ankiel’s was that absolutely stupid 65 mph looper that started about 3 feet behind a hitter’s head and ended up as a strike.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Feb 6, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never thought I would talk about Rick's pitching and mention the word "looper".
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Feb 6, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dai-Mat's Gyroball
F.T.W.
[/sarcasm]
Great post DanUp. Lboros couldn’t have picked a better replacement—you’re killing it these days man. Keep it up.
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Feb 6, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always liked calling it
a lollipop curve.
by liam on Feb 6, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
man
I wish he coulda held it together
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 6, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Marichal
when he was with the Giants, had a curve like nobody else..ever. Also Mike Scott (although he was hurt a lot like Sheets) with Houston had a slider that was wicked, wicked. He was all around nasty..used to love to see him pitch.
by ridgesee on Feb 6, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I won't disagree, ridgesee
But you picked two of my least favorite pitchers!
I hate to say anything good about Marichal because of the Roseboro incident. I don’t care much for Scott, either, but that “splitter” really was about unhittable.
by random on Feb 6, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a calm review
of the Roseboro incident.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 7, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Scott's
slider or splitter or whatever was allegedly a scuffball.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 6, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Schilling
He’s not super popular in Cardinal-land, but when Schilling was on, you just knew he was going to go up the ladder on guys, and he would, and they’d swing and miss at that high heat every single time. That always impressed me.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Feb 6, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Most impressive thing about Schilling
He was throwing 71%(!) strikes (both total and 1st pitch) in his 2001/2002 prime. You know you’re getting a pitch around the zone and they still couldn’t hit it.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 6, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And to go for 4 posts in a row!!!
Hoffman’s changeup when he was at his peak was almost comical to watch. Every bit as good as Gagne’s.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Feb 6, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I should have kept reading – I posted this above. Probably not as good as Bugs Bunny’s.
by Toddius on Feb 6, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bugs' go to pitch though
was the screwball, no? Bugs could’ve been a HOFer
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Feb 6, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Off track and covered ad nauseum
But it is still astounding to me how many major league caliber players don’t have anywhere to report and it is only week from pitchers and catchers reporting.
The clubs certainly hold all the power but it seems like these guys should be begging for one year deals right about now.
by OCCardsFan on Feb 6, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i don't understand it either
who would of thought that O-dog and dunn would still be waiting for a team to go to for spring training. manny is just greedy so that i understand. I would dearly hope that LA goes and signs dunn and hudson and leaves manny on the street. Why do these guys love boras so much, he seems to be costing his players more and more every year.
"When the boogie man goes to sleep he checks his closet for Chuck Norris"
by elirock83 on Feb 6, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think Manny's all that greedy
i just think he’s grossly misinformed about the current market for his services.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 6, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really like calling...
…ANY baseball player greedy to tell you the truth. I see nothing wrong with players trying to get paid the absolute most they can.
I’d say you’re about right for Manny. Of course, I’m not entirely sure that Manny realizes he was traded last year. He probably showed up in LA and wondered why the Red Sox were now wearing blue and white uniforms and where all the palm trees came from. I bet he was also confused why that Donny Pedroza dude had a porn ’stache and why Big Popgun was nowhere to be found.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 6, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's all relative.
They’re just trying to be competitive in their field of work. Everybody wants to be paid fairly, even if all the rates are high.
by spants on Feb 6, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
greed?
i was on the sheets bandwagon for a while, but when it became clear he would not accept a penny-like deal, it seemed he wasn’t confident enough of his health to accept a lower minimum. now he has nothing, and i can’t say i’m too sorry about that. too bad, he is a good pitcher when he can pitch. maybe he’ll end up carp-2, but i doubt it.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Feb 6, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a fan of submariners
so watching Chad Bradford pitch is a lot of fun for me.
Got to see Bradford and Hugo Castellanos pitch back-to-back last ST, which was great fun for me.
by liam on Feb 6, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
living in MN
I got to see Johan’s sick nasty changeups. The circle change, too. He was amazing when he was on. Also, Liriano’s slider before he got shut down his rookie season. And then Pat Neshek was great with his unique delivery.
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
by tgreenfield on Feb 6, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nothing to do with pitching but...
Evidently our woes at second base might be cured!!! Schu is bringing an additional glove to spring training. OK, maybe it won’t cure anything, but definitely worth a shot.
by birdo rojo on Feb 6, 2009 11:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Weren't all the fan's calls for skippy to play second...
laughed at by all the baseball people around town?
by Evilfrog on Feb 6, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a real-life baseball person
but I’m still laughing. It’d be a historically radical move—with Ankiel in the OF, it’s tempting the wrath of the GoB too much.
by liam on Feb 6, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still should be laughed at
Going from LF (and there’s where he was best according to UZR) is a step in the wrong direction on the defensive spectrum.
It’s a rare occasion where a player can move from right to left on the spectrum, and I think it’s a bad idea to even try with Skip, especially considering Kennedy’s strong showing in the field last year.
As Rany said in a post the other day, we need a Vice President of Common Sense when it comes to moving average-to-below-average OFs to the infield.
by lightbulb on Feb 6, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that would be true
if he started out left on the spectrum and was then moved right for a legitimate reason. but Skip was moved to the outfield in college because their shortstop was the team captain and the second baseman was coming off a great year, and skip was a walk-on transfer student. he was drafted as an outfielder and has never been tried anywhere but the outfield, professionally.
There is no data either way, and while it probably won’t work, it costs nothing to try. IMHO the first thing a vice president of common sense would do is to try to leverage the talent available on a team by verifying that the players who can hit are playing at a position as far to the left as possible.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 6, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but the cardinals never really tried it when skip was in the minors, and it’s not like he zoomed up the farm at pujols or even brett wallace speed. granted that the shaun boyd-at-2b debacle may have discouraged this kind of experiment with schumaker, but it’d be pretty weird for a 400-slg smallish outfielder to never get a chance at the middle infield (and only got six bad games at 3b) and then become a decent defensive 2b.
maybe he follow in bill russell’s footsteps.
by greenback06 on Feb 6, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tyler Johnson
My recollection is that sometime last summer, during one of Joe Strauss’s weekly chats, someone said that he had heard rumors that there were some off the field issues with Tyler Johnson. Strauss’s reply was something to the effect that he wasn’t going to address rumors like that, but that he also did not expect Johnson to play for the Cardinals again.
Fwiw.
Mike
by juggler on Feb 6, 2009 11:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
Would explain the otherwise puzzling reluctance to even try to bring back TJ, who, when he is on, can be a LOOGY extraordinaire.
It’s amazing, when you think about it, how the stars aligned briefly yet perfectly in the late-season/playoff bullpen of 2006 — Kinney and TJ were lights-out during that run, and of course Adam closed ’em out.
by DCRedbird on Feb 6, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's like we got a bunch of karm back there
for being swept by the red sox
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 6, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
then it caught up with us again in 2007
that year really sucked, excluding the brief period of time between Ankiel’s comeback and his HGH accusations.
by phesto on Feb 6, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TyJ issues
I remember a comment that Dunc wasn’t happy with the way TyJ prepared (something along the lines of: he didn’t at all). Can’t remember where that came from.
by hit and run on Feb 6, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
spring training
didn’t he show up looking (and weighing) like an offensive lineman? I was thinking that he erked quite a few ppl not even attempting to be in shape for ST.
"When the boogie man goes to sleep he checks his closet for Chuck Norris"
by elirock83 on Feb 6, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I read the same things.
Goold had an article also about Johnson’s poor dedication to developing his craft. He got the reputation of requiring babysitting to do his work, and he wouldn’t stay in shape. The Cardinals attributed his injury problems to his non-existent work ethic. The guy has talent, but apparently thinks that should be enough.
Duncan, in the Bernie article DanUpBaby referenced for Carp, made reference to the fact that Trever Miller is a work-out warrior. He said he had little doubts as to whether Miller would be ready to take the ball when asked. That is a sharp contrast to the reputation Johnson has developed with the team. I would guess that is why Johnson is gone and Miller is here.
by etp_stl on Feb 7, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nasty pitches
I think that John Smoltz’ slider is the nastiest pitch I have ever seen. You can almost see his elbow fraying and tearing apart every time he throws it.
by indakind on Feb 6, 2009 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What about
Gibby’s slider?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 6, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One of my favorite pitches..
Was Greg Maddux’s 2-seamer that started at the knees of left handed hitters and left them wondering how they just struck out on 82mph “heat”
And I say England's greatest prime minister was Lord Palmerston.
by tangledbrett on Feb 6, 2009 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just Maddux all togother
A brilliant pitcher.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Feb 6, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When he was in Oakland
and feeling right, I always enjoyed watching Barry Zito’s curveball.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 6, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Barry Zito
enjoyed watching his curveball, he wants you to let him know if you find it. He set it down somewhere to pick up a pen. It should be sitting next to about 10 MPH of his fastball.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Feb 6, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I found it!
….Wait…No, it was just the remote.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 6, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Favorite pitch combo
Carpenter facing a lefty throwing the “comebacker” 2-seam painting the black followed by the cutter off the inside getting a stupid swing.
Pitch singular would probably be Pedro’s 98 mph sinker circa ’99.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 6, 2009 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Does the rotation scare anyone else on here?
It’s been hashed and re-hashed several times but I don’t like the fact that we are counting on Carp for 30-35 starts. He came back perfectly fine last year and looked like the old Carp then BOOM! his nerve flared up and he was done for the season. Whats to keep this from happening again? We are one reoccurring injury away from a back end or the rotation of Boggs-Piniero. Ugh.
I guess it just finally set in for me once Sheets/Perez/Garland/Pettitte were no longer available options.
by MattK on Feb 6, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't scare me any more than last year
and last year didn’t turn out too bad.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 6, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True but..
then we got career years out of Wellemeyer and Lohse which probably won’t happen again. That’s what really scares me, the regression to the mean.
by MattK on Feb 6, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wellemeyer
doesn’t have too much of a precedent in his numbers, since he’s a converted reliever to starter, or was he a starter early in his career? regardless, he is throwing a lot more strikes, so if he continues to do that, he won’t regress much
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 6, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was a starter in the minors
Minors as a starter – 4.0 BB/9
MLB Career before last year – 5.6 BB/9, 7.66 K/9
2008 – 2.9 BB/9, 6.31 K/9 FIP 4.56
It’s last year’s 4.56 FIP what scares me the most.and that his ERA this year will start to reflect it.
by MattK on Feb 6, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know its been said already - and rightfully first...
but Wainright’s breaking(?) ball, especially the one against Beltran, is just filthy
by bornin82 on Feb 6, 2009 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I always thought Lidge's slider was a thing of beauty.
You know, the one that ended up all the way at the train tracks? Beautiful stuff.
/cheapshot
by mattybobo on Feb 6, 2009 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
all the way at the train tracks?
stop selling Albert short bro, that ball is still in orbit
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 6, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, don't you remember?
The Astros charter was nearly hit by it when it left Houston.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 6, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Marquis' sinker
[/runs and ducks objects thrown in his direction by VEB members]
And although I hate Roger Clemens, his splitter is filthy
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 6, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
dodge dip duck dive dodge
Countdown to world series #11
263 days
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 6, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
runs and ducks objects…
Strange. That’s what Marquis used to do when his sinker wasn’t sinking. Run and hide behind the mound so he didn’t die.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 6, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always enjoy watching a good knuckler float on in there...
I remember watching Niekro when I was younger, but also in more recent history Tim Wakefield’s knuckleball to a degree. But Niekro mostly for making a career out of it.
by A1R3Z on Feb 6, 2009 12:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wakefield pitching for the pirates
in the nlcs. I think of that first when i think of wakefield.
"When the boogie man goes to sleep he checks his closet for Chuck Norris"
by elirock83 on Feb 6, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TJ
I’m not altogether anti-Trever Miller, but what does he offer that Tyler Johnson didn’t
.. assuming they have similar levels of injury.
there’s a major gap in work ethic. Miller is a notorious fitness freak while, TJ was known to suffer from a bit of apathy.
That being said, the talent levels are probably similar and the age and cost-controlled aspect of TJ makes him a better choice in my mind.
by _pistol_ on Feb 6, 2009 12:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also
Trever Miller never impregnated Al Hrabosky’s daughter. As far as I know.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Feb 6, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh.
Didn’t know that — is Tyler Johnson married to Al’s daughter?
by phesto on Feb 6, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He actually is
Mrs. Tiffany Hrabosky-Johnson. I think they had a boy.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 6, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember.....
Thompson, or was it Flores went online to get a marriage license and performed the ceremony… I think it was Flores
by streamman on Feb 6, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Randy Flores officiated at Brad Thompson’s wedding this offseason.
by cardsgirl95 on Feb 6, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh
I stand duly corrected… but still you gotta admit how cool that is ;)
by streamman on Feb 6, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i wanna see that video
IZZY was apparently laughing his ass off the entire time
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 6, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Tomko’s gopherball was always a favorite of mine
by ajabegg on Feb 6, 2009 1:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My favorite pitch to watch...
Henry Rowengartner’s(Rookie of the Year) post-arm-healing fastball. “Throw him your fastball. He can’t hit your fastball!”
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
by albrtfn on Feb 6, 2009 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
BOOO!!!!!!
He was a Cub!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 6, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think his one-time use change up
and the underhanded eephus were effective… small sample size though.
by mattybobo on Feb 6, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nobody mentions Aaron Miles pitching perfect innings with 60-mph nothings?
by tom s. on Feb 6, 2009 1:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
El Duque's eephus
That may be the best pitch I saw all last year. He threw it to Pujols, man. That takes some stones. (Think it might’ve been a spring game…)
by liam on Feb 6, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was it 2007 Perhaps?
He threw the second game of the year against us in that ill-conceived season. I don’t think he pitched in a single game (ST included) last year.
Maybe the Cards should take a Juan Gonzales-esque flier on him.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Feb 6, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
October 18, 1988. The last pitch John Tudor threw in the post-season
not with the Cardinals, alas, but with the Dodgers, was clocked at something like 59 mph, and it struck out Mark McGwire, swinging from the heels. He came out of that World Series game in the second inning with a bad arm and never made it back, although he did manage one more (excellent) year in St. Louis after he recovered.
I remember watching that pitch and feeling pain … knowing that I really could throw harder than that. But man, was he fun to watch when he was right. Like watching Rembrandt paint must have been.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 6, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fernando Valenzuela
I enjoyed watching Valenzuela’s screw ball, and also his windup (with the eyes staring up in the sky).
I agree with everyone else. Wainer’s “violent” curve is definitely a thing of beauty.
Muddux’s backdoor change. Or anything by Maddux is good stuff.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Feb 6, 2009 1:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jake Peavy's
two seem fastball to lefties. Starts off a foot inside, ends up being right down the middle.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 6, 2009 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Aren't you forgetting Sutter's high fastball?
Maybe I am showing my age, but I will never forget this
BTW, can we post a video here?
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
by Zubin on Feb 6, 2009 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why wasn't he called for a balk?
He was dangerously close to not coming set on each of those pitches…
Oh well, viva 1982!
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 6, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody on base
You don’t need to come set if the bases are empty. The only modern pitcher that I’ve seen take advantage of this is Chad Bradford, who will sometimes come set and sometimes just keep going to mess with the hitters’ timing.
by mojowo11 on Feb 6, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh
I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks for the tip.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 6, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and Sutter's splitter
as nasty as that thing was, it was no wonder it destroyed his shoulder
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Feb 6, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Video
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
by Zubin on Feb 6, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Killed the Radio Star
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Feb 6, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
With the injury news, now is the time to sign sheets to a multi-year deal on the cheap. Something minimal this year while he’s recovering, and a decent guaranteed base plus incentives the following 1-2 years.
by Recon on Feb 6, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree...
Sheets is still to high profile. I think that only works on guys who you can get under the radar so to speak.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
by Zubin on Feb 6, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to miss Tyler Johnson
Always loved the guy. I really wish we had re-signed him. It pains me to see him go away for a minor league contract, one that we probably could have managed. At least he’s going to the M’s, a team that I personally like, and one that’s hard to dislike.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Feb 6, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
if I were a Mariners fan last year
I’d probably dislike them
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 6, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i did too, but man that's what happens when you have kids
you get fat & lazy because you gotta take care of them. let that be a lesson to everyone, don’t have kids or you’ll lose your job.
also don’t blow out your shoulder & not tell anyone about it or get it fixed asap.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 6, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kerry Wood's Sliders for Strikeouts #19 and #20
are two of the nastiest sliders I’ve ever seen in my life.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 6, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was going to mention his 20-K game sliders
He made so many people look silly that game.
by mojowo11 on Feb 6, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I’m still not very knowledgable about pitching in general (probably because I never actually played baseball as a kid and starting truly following it late) but those are ridiculous.
by mattybobo on Feb 6, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness
I think he was throwing a Whiffle Ball that day. Not really fair to the Astros. :D
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 6, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I be the downer?
Those sliders are really good obviously, but a true Smoltzer is still better, his are just so tight (if someone could find a way to write that without it sounding homoerotic I’m all ears)—-Wood always slurved it out a bit too much for my taste IMO. Those were just set up by 98 on the black. You simply can’t be looking slider when you have to account for 98….with ridic movement/life….located.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 6, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
those fastballs were f’ing nasty, the slider was an afterthought
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 6, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Afterthought might be a little strong
But he pitched off the fastball, not off the slider…
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 6, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
but that fastball was frickin wicked
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 7, 2009 4:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially
When you also have to guard against 98 mph IN YOUR EAR.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Feb 6, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that was beautiful
and I’m pretty far from being a cub fan
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 6, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and yet so close.
We need to schedule a VEB get-together for the the displaced Chicago land Cards fans.
@ Sedgwicks, of course.
by _pistol_ on Feb 6, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cool, let's do it
there’s probably at least 7 or 8 of us I’m guessing
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 7, 2009 4:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG
i had never seen those pitches before….that was absolutely filthy….i would probably retire if i ever threw one pitch like that….and he threw two in the same game
by VolsnCards5 on Feb 6, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I loved any Big Curveball growing up.
The ones that come to mind are Kile’s & Matty Mo’s…probably why I threw about 75% curveballs when I pitched. I didn’t throw over the top(3/4), so I always started it behind the hitter’s head and had it end up outside by his knees(sounds ridiculous, but scout’s honor), except when a Lefty came up I didn’t have a head to aim at and often times would end up beaning them…I hated Lefties…if only my fastball could have topped 70 MPH. Pitching is by far the best position to play and I have now started pitching in slow-pitch softball.
by STLRegalia on Feb 6, 2009 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
OT: But I just won an All Inslusive Trip to Cancun for 7 nights
I just have to brag about it. So who wants to come with me? I am having open tryouts
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 6, 2009 4:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i'll do anything to go
and i mean anything
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 6, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am serious about open tryouts
I put it on my facebook and myspace page for people to tell me why they deserve to go.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 6, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where you going to in Cancun?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Feb 6, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oasis Palm Beach
Seems like an ok all inclusive. I just got back from Cancun last month
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 6, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
because I need a reprieve from this offseason
c’mon, you aren’t going to find a better reason than that.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Feb 6, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But by the time it comes around it will be a reprive from next season
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 6, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it looks like I booked it during the World Series
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 6, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Smooth move, Ex-Lax
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Feb 7, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey no name-calling!
FLAGGED!!!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 7, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Beaten at my own game.....
This is going to be a long day……………………
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Feb 7, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
craaaaaaaaaaaap
i don’t do facebook & myspace.
so are you going to do what they did in Seinfeld when George was trying to get a choice apartment & he had to tell a sad story to win it? because my life’s been worse than George’s, and i think i’d win.
how about i send you an email?
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 6, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well it isn't the saddest story that wins
Just the most convincing. You know like Why should I bring you?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 6, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if you don't bring me, i'll attend every Cardinal game this season
what? that’s not so bad you say, what’s the worst that could happen? considering in my short 31 years on this rock, i’ve been to 26 Cardinal games. they’ve lost every single game. the last two games i attended, Big Mac blew out his knee for good, and Jamie Garcia blew out his elbow requiring TJ & resulting in him missing the entire 09 season.
what’s the worst that could happen? i for one do not want to find out.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 7, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stay away
from the Mang!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 7, 2009 8:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if i'm on the beach in Cancun, i can do no damage
it’s all up to Flim
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 7, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I deserve to go
because I have never been out of the country… but have seen most of the country. basically, I need a vacation
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 7, 2009 4:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haven't seen this mentioned here yet
But Bert Blyleven’s curveball is probably the best pitch I’ve ever seen. He was never a power pitcher, but managed to get through a 20 year career based on good location and buckling knees with his bender.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Feb 6, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pedro
When Pedro was in his prime, his 95 MPH fastball started on the edge of the plate and came in and rose up about 3 inches on righties. They couldn’t touch it. i loved that pitch
by ilcardfan on Feb 6, 2009 5:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
But it was the Bugs Bunny change-up that was nasty.
I think it was Pedro’s circle-change that danced so much it sometimes looked like a knuckle ball.
by Beardsville Rockers on Feb 6, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My list
1. Maddox’s Change up-I know a changeup isn’t a great pitch to watch but he was the master of that pitch and it was probably the best pitch in baseball for 15 years. Only because he could put it anywhere at any time.
2. Clemen’s Fastball- Nobody could hit his fastball. reaching close to one hundred when he was younger. It made him who he was. Before HGH
3. Randy Johnson’s Slider-Was a killer in his hey day. He through it hard and had great movement
4. Brandon Webb’s Sinker- No one can hit that sinker off the ground. It might be the best pitch in baseball right now.
5. Adam Wainwright’s 12-6 Curve- That is the best curve I have ever seen. something I think he has used less. But that is a good thing so people don’t pick up on it.
by mattscards77 on Feb 6, 2009 6:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Enjoyed the Post
Especially how you captured the truest essence of Dan & Al. I really like how you were able to limit Al’s response to only one sentence, instead of numerous sentences that might make me want to mute your article and start listening to the radio as I continue reading.
by Beardsville Rockers on Feb 6, 2009 8:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, another bullet dodged,
with Wolf signing with the Men In Blue. link
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 7, 2009 12:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I just did this a few days ago, actually
1. Pedro’s screwball/changeup
2. Ankiel’s curve
3. Webb’s sinker
4. Mo’s cutter
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Feb 7, 2009 3:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Lidge
When he struck out the side in the All-Star game in 2005…I think on 9 pitches…was a thing of beauty. It was the 2-4 spots in the order (Mora, Sweeney, Anderson – I had to look that up) and I was astounded. His slider that game could have gotten Tony Gwynn or Pete Rose to miss a pitch by half a foot, I think. Ridiculous.
by stlfan on Feb 7, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A-Rod tested positive for juice in 2003...
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 7, 2009 11:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Here. I'll help
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Feb 7, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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