Viva El Birdos Theater
LIQUIDATION SALE
A VEB Play in One Act
It's the pivot of winter, where the bitter cold of January begins to give way to the Grapefruit League and a warm, renewed sense of optimism, but at a suburban shopping center on this cold, spare February day TONY LA RUSSA and JOHN MOZELIAK aren't doing anything like resting on their laurels. Outside the strip mall TONY and JOHN are discussing the very makeup of 2009's club. Theirs is a job that takes no vacations--that stops for no man.
TONY LA RUSSA: Hey, hey--stop the car.
JOHN MOZELIAK: What're you talking about? Taken starts in ten minutes.
TONY: Circuit City's liquidating, Mozman Prophecy! I've been waiting for ten years for this, and god knows I'm coming out of there with a DVD player.
JOHN: Alright, alright. Let's just be quick about it, okay? I don't want to miss a single dead sex-trafficker.
The Circuit City's double doors are surrounded by massive, exclamation-pointed banners promising 10-70% off. TONY is excitedly rapping an open palm with his checkbook. JOHN, checking his cell phone for the time every few seconds, seems less enthused.
In the store the liquidation frenzy has not yet erupted; TONY and JOHN join a group comprised primarily of store personnel and people who are looking for a Wii. TONY and JOHN walk the empty aisles to the DVD section, where they find a salesman.
JOE CARDSTALK: Hi, can I help you?
TONY: Yes, Mr... is it Cardstalk?
JOE: No, no--you say it like card stalk.
JOHN: Oh, so less allegorical.
JOE: Right.
JOHN stares at the fourth wall.
TONY: Anyhow, I was looking to buy one of these DVD players, and I see you've got a ton of models. What would you recommend? I'm looking for one that'll really make Beverly Hills Cop pop.
JOE [pondering]: All of them.
JOHN: Wait, what?
JOE: Gotta go with all of them. I mean, what if you need to watch two DVDs?
TONY: That's true.
JOHN: I just--
JOE: Or if one of them breaks? You're going to need another DVD player.
TONY: That's also feasible. Moz with the Mozt, I like this guy. He understands contingencies.
JOHN: Look, he's going to--we're going to just keep looking. I mean you guys are going out of business, and all. There are deals to be had.
JOE: Alright. Well, I've gotta head out; I don't actually work here, some guy just handed me this nametag and told me to walk up to the guy in the baseball outfit. Have a good one.
TONY and JOHN are left to their thoughts and the wall of DVD players. Slowly the blinding banners are obscured by the thickening crowd, and other people join TONY and JOHN in the DVD aisle. Little by little the DVD players are plucked from the aisle, their purchasers moving like time-lapse photo subjects around our stationary heroes. A manager arrives.
BERNIE: Are you guys gonna buy something, or what?
TONY: Sorry, man, Moznanski is a grade-A tightwad. I swear he's going to have me squeezing the boxes to check for freshness. Do I know you, Bernie?
BERNIE [uneasily]: No--no. It's short for Bernabe.
TONY: Oh, alright.
BERNIE: Anyway, I don't think I have to tell you guys this, but we're going out of business. This is all we've got, and it's all we're gonna get. If you want an, ah, DVD player, you've got to open up the, the wallet and act now.
JOHN: I know, I know.
BERNIE: Anyway, I've got to get going. We've got ninety percent-off signs to distribute.
TONY: So, Cousin Moz, what do you think?
JOHN: I think Liam Neeson's probably killed fifty or sixty sex-traffickers already. More than that, I think that you've got to pick the DVD player now that gives you the best chance at seeing TRON at its most sparkling. There really isn't a lot of time left to buy, no matter how annoying it's been to hear that the whole time.
TONY: Oh, Lawnmozer Man, you never annoy me. But I know what you mean.
JOHN: Yeah.
DANUP: Hey, have either of you guys seen an allegorical figure walking around? I lost the one that represented prudence and fiduciary responsibility.
TONY: I'll let you know.
JOHN: After Taken is over.
0 recs |
108 comments
Comments
Nicely done, Govna
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 3, 2009 1:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ever thought of writing a screenplay?
Call it “+1”
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Feb 3, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
oh yeah... the prequel should be titled...
“SIGN BEN SHEETS”
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Feb 3, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I see the theme with the Mozeliak nicknames
But I really wish you could have included “MOZO the helper monkey.” That way we could have started a Pray For Mozo (to sign Ben Sheets) campaign.

by mattyp on Feb 3, 2009 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"Whaddya expect? His cholesterol is through the roof!"
Ah, that was a classic episode….
by BTown Birds fan on Feb 3, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes!
Dont take me seriously :-D
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Feb 4, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can Mo see me through the fourth wall?
That was creepy.
by mojowo11 on Feb 3, 2009 2:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I saw Taken
That body count is no exaggeration. Two outrageous things…not so much about the content of the film, just the experience of going to it:
*There were seven or eight little kids there when a golf buddy of mine (who I’ll call Timbo) and I went. I mean little kids. Like, REALLY little. I’m talking about 3-5 year olds. Pipsqueaks. A bit of a mature film for kids of that nature, considering Liam Neeson is a former Jason Bourne type who spends literally the ENTIRE movie killing and maiming people who are…what are they? Oh, yeah…HUMAN SEX SLAVE TRAFFICKERS!!!!!! In no way was this movie appropriate for anyone under the age of, well, probably 32.
*Taken is only rated PG-13. Really, redbirdnation8206? Yes, imaginary person who responded with that question in their mind. The movie is about (just as a review) Liam Neeson killing the holy shit out of people (because Albanian sex traffickers are people too) with guns, torture, pure force, and vehicular homicide, just to name a few. And it’s PEE-GEE-MOTHERFLETCHING-THIRTEEN!!! Go figure.
Anyway, I found the film to be a bit implausible, but highly entertaining. I want to toss Bryan Mills, Jason Bourne, and basically any character played by that bald British guy who played the Transporter into a big pit and see what happens. Maybe then they could all go out for coffee together. It could work.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2009 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
-1 on the formatting to me
You’d think I’d learn to do this:
- BULLET
Instead of this:
*BULLET
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Easily my favorite things in the movie
Is flies to Paris, gets his mission pretty far underway, and meets up with his contact within 16 hours of “the call”. Dude is busy.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 3, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite
…is when he uses a garbled phone convo to find literally everything there is to know about these particular Albanians within about 34 minutes. I think that’s how that works. Right?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Getting their CITY was hilarious, and then they got their names
And that took 5 minutes tops based on the aforementioned booked schedule.
(None of this is really spoilers, and even if it was I don’t care, you know exactly what the plot is going in, its entertainment value is 100% about the action)
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 3, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this movie would have been so much better
if, instead of liam neeson, it starred Leslie Nielsen.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 3, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Surely you can't be serious.
by Anonymous Communist on Feb 3, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's serious, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't like to be called Shirley
thanks for the setup.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Feb 3, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jason Statham
That’s the name of the guy.
by saladdays on Feb 3, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah, yes
I was drawing a huge blank on that one. A tip of the cap to you.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Favorite character names
for Statham – Handsome Rob from “The Italian Job” and Turkish from “Snatch”.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 3, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Saw it last night
I liked it a lot. I really don’t think that it’s appropriate for little kids though, so, I have to agree with you on the rating. The last Harry Potter movie was PG-13, yet somehow this movie is in the same category. I have to say, WHAT THE F&%#?! It seems like the only reason movies get an R rating any more is if there (1) is violence that can be characterized as “gore” (2) the word “fuck” is used multiple times or (3) more than a little nudity. The subject matter (sex slavery), the violence, torture, and language aren’t enough to earn this movie a rating “higher” than the one given to Harry Potter. This movie was even a little disturbing to me, so I really don’t think a 13 year old should be seeing it. I’ll get off my soap box now, wait, hold up…
SIGN BEN SHEETS
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Feb 3, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This was fantastic
Other than the fact that I did waited all morning for this, crying and looking at pictures of ladies in my life while listening to “Love of my Life” by Queen.
by ajabegg on Feb 3, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Though we touched and went our separate ways
I know Journey is no Queen, but I just happen to be listening to that song at this very moment.
by mattybobo on Feb 3, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My God, I can't wait till pitchers and catchers report.
Baseball Fever.... Catch it!
by skcabrozar on Feb 3, 2009 3:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
fiduciary responsibility
that is all.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Feb 3, 2009 3:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
DAmn... Wiggy signed with the O's
I was really hoping to get him. Oh well.
by Czechguardsman on Feb 3, 2009 3:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think you might not have a lot of sympathizers
at least, that’s the impression I was getting a couple of days ago.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 3, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Touche sir
Oh Touche… just don’t share this with the folks on the PD forums… Even with all of the talk of Blue font over there… I just am not quite certain that they could comprehend the allegorical euphemisms which you employed. I do mean come on… they posted another trade ludwick/ankiel, kennedy, schumaker, piniero for sheets thread just this very morning.
by streamman on Feb 3, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Outstanding
Nice work Dan. Reminiscent of a wonderful little one-act I read a while back.
by lightbulb on Feb 3, 2009 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Very Seinfeldian
The problem with any dramatic production surrounding the Cardinals this off season is that much like the hit show “Seinfeld,” the off season is about nothing.
Mo and La Russa might as well talk about DVD players or buttons on a cardigan because once again the promise to be “creative” and “busy” off season is as hollow as Sammy Sosa’s bat.
Sign Sheets.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
by Cardinal Red State on Feb 3, 2009 5:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
well, at least we didn't sign aaron miles...
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 3, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Atomic Bitchwax
Says that Sheets is used goods. Ankiel for Sonnanstine. Healthy and cost controlled.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Feb 3, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why would the rays trade us for ankiel now that they have the best outfield in the majors?
by tom s. on Feb 3, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well they could use an upgrade in RF
but i dont think ankiel is enough to get Sonnanstine
by FunkeeC on Feb 3, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why
Indeed. I don’t know their OF that well. It was wishful thinking perhaps,but the point is why not go for a healthy cost controlled pitcher rather than Sheets?
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Feb 3, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was very ala Hinkster. Nice.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
by Red Blazer on Feb 3, 2009 5:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
DanUp -- the raging question inherent in your little mise en scene here
is also appropriate to the allegory.
Why in 2009 does Tony not have a “DVD player”? How has Mo (or more accurately, MO’s predecessors) failed to get him a “DVD player” for going on 10 years? Doesn’t this ring most true here?
by tom s. on Feb 3, 2009 5:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It makes sense that TLR
would want a DVD player. It is, after all, a “proven” technology.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 3, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
zing!
(in Mo’s defense, though, HD-DVD has SO much more upside…)
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 3, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What if Mo got him a Blue Ray player?
Then we’d be flying sky high!
Chuck Norris bows to no man...but he does bow to The Mang.
by miniboscorino on Feb 3, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Blu Ray players is that there
are so few models out there and the good ones are really, really expensive.
It is more cost efficient to get a DVD player with 1080i upconversion. Sure, the picture isn’t nearly as sharp, you don’t get true 6.1 audio nor does it have internet access to go along with pop-up menus.
But it’ll play your favorite movie and that is all that matters. Stunning visuals and crisp audio are overrated.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 3, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But wait a minute
isn’t that a little like Aaron Miles playing CF?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 3, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just buy a Playstation 3
and not worry about the video games. use it as your tv’s multimedia computer, since it has wifi networking, and the bluray player on it is pretty decent.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 3, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really feel that the dripping irony
of my post was completely lost on everyone.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 3, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i got it
but it makes me sad because it’s hits really close to home
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 3, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my tv is from theyear 2000
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, either i didn't get Harcore's irony or you didn't
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 4, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BluRay = Good pitchers
Visuals and crisp audio = velocity and strikeouts.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 4, 2009 2:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
groundballs, vcd's
and dave duncan, bittorrent screener files?
… or, something…?
like why i saw taken four months ago and didn’t know it hadn’t been released yet?
"So in first grade it was tell about your dad day. Most of the kids came up and said "my daddy’s a doctor" or "my daddy’s a lawyer" or anything like that. Then, it was little Billy’s turn. Little Billy got up in front of his whole class and said "my daddy is an exotic dancer for other men. He performs sex shows for other men and then goes home with them and takes money to do what they ask him to!" His teacher was very shocked, and took him out in the hall. "Why did you say such things?" she said to little Billy. "Well, really, my dad is a Cubs player, but I was too embarrassed to say it in front of the class." - Mr Redbird, from the TESS thread
by adiueordie on Feb 4, 2009 4:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't get it
Because I’ve never gone shopping for a BluRay player and I’m so used to hearing exactly that complaint — that there aren’t any affordable ones to be found.
I’m glad to hear it’s as ridiculous as I’ve always thought it sounded, though.
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lets just hope he doesn't go on eBay
pick up a (heavily-)used 1980 Izinator Betamax to watch his old copy of E.T. on at the end of the night.
Because, you know, you just can’t beat that veteran presence on your entertainment stand.
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he'd put it in the closet
And watch his collection of VHS tapes.
/pictures him making luhnow copy “must love dogs” from dvd to vhs
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 3, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if nothing else,
I’ll be able to watch Sky Captain and the first Mummy on mine until the end of time. I try to tell myself that.
by DanUpBaby on Feb 3, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
outstanding
BEN SHEETS
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 3, 2009 7:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This was amazing
I know this isn’t generating that much discussion because it’s not a discussion-generating post, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I enjoyed the crap out of it and hope you’ll do it again when news is slow. Just don’t want you to be discouraged by the lack of replies! Great writing, DanUp.
by mojowo11 on Feb 3, 2009 8:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This just in from mlb.com re: Sheets and the Rangers
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 3, 2009 8:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
reminds me of a dream...
especially with the random guy who didn’t actually work there, sounds like one of my random-ass dreams anyway
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 3, 2009 9:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fourth wall?
AHAHAHAHAHA!
BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!
by spants on Feb 3, 2009 10:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I just have to say the Office is one of the best shows ever...
I know people watch it here, so I can make that comment.
anyway appearently Bernie talked to Duncan and wrote a piece
Kyle McClellan will be in the bullpen if Carpenter holds up and continues to make advances this spring. But for now, McClellan is preparing as a starter, just in case. McClellan will go through the first three turns in the rotation once the spring-training games begin, and after that Duncan and La Russa will take a look at the situation with Carpenter (and others) and go from there
it also says Dunc is REALLY REALLY thinking Carp is healthy and coming back (after expressing doubts earlier in the year)
so does this mean no Ben Sheets? ;-)
Dont take me seriously :-D
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Feb 3, 2009 11:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wow
“Duncan said the ninth inning will play out based on pitcher vs. hitter matchups — meaning that he’ll give the ball to the reliever who has the best chance to get an out against a particular hitter.”
I love this. And the whole “fired up over josh kinney” thing. OTOH,
“Duncan said that Chris has full strength and use of his right arm for the first time since the first half of the 2007 season” pisses me off immensely.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 3, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
UGH, that part about Chris really pisses me off too
something needs to be done about the Cardinals players playing when they are so hurt they don’t even have the full use of their limbs. seriously, that’s unacceptable.
oh & here’s the audio of Dave’s interview in case anyone was interested
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 4, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
dave duncan totally sounds like a guy you’d meet in a saloon in a 1950’s western. Awesome voice (have i really never heard him speak?!")
Clint Eastwood would be like “Dave, i didn’t come here to talk about the railroad. I came to ask if you knew this BEN SHEETS guy, and where I could find him”.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 4, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
go further with that thought.
"So in first grade it was tell about your dad day. Most of the kids came up and said "my daddy’s a doctor" or "my daddy’s a lawyer" or anything like that. Then, it was little Billy’s turn. Little Billy got up in front of his whole class and said "my daddy is an exotic dancer for other men. He performs sex shows for other men and then goes home with them and takes money to do what they ask him to!" His teacher was very shocked, and took him out in the hall. "Why did you say such things?" she said to little Billy. "Well, really, my dad is a Cubs player, but I was too embarrassed to say it in front of the class." - Mr Redbird, from the TESS thread
by adiueordie on Feb 4, 2009 4:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow@14:15 discussing the LHP's.
Duncan has no clue who any of the LH’s not named miller are. But he liked ostlund (SP) though he can’t remember where he came from. And he read some positive things about him.
Bernie was pushing pretty hard to get the Boggs quote. Sounded like Duncan was a bit taken aback and scrambled to find something positive to say. Same with the “i want an established closer” bit (21:30). I don’t think Bernie represented that part of the conversation well in his article.
Interesting bits about Wellemeyer and Looper at 18-19 that didn’t make the blog article.
The Chris Duncan stuff is at 22:45+. at 23:50, “he does not make excuses”. Good stuff, you can hear the pain in Dave’s voice. not as pissed off, now.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 4, 2009 1:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know I really do hate to pile on an injured guy
but L’il Dunc doesn’t have to make excuses because his Dad and TLR are apparently happy to do it for him. Let’s get this straight – if you say you can play then you have to take full responsibility for the results. No excuses means no excuses. Unless you have a number 5 on your jersey just go to the DL when you are hurt.
I get a little fired up over this as I think the stubborn grit factor of 2008 probably cost us a playoff spot as much as anything. I wish I had the wherewithal to analyze the impact of all the miserable at bats from injured players (Duncan, Ankiel) and miserable outings from injured pitchers (Isringhausen), plus the insistence on keeping Wellemeyer on the roster for three solid weeks when he couldn’t pitch.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 4, 2009 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
link?
"So in first grade it was tell about your dad day. Most of the kids came up and said "my daddy’s a doctor" or "my daddy’s a lawyer" or anything like that. Then, it was little Billy’s turn. Little Billy got up in front of his whole class and said "my daddy is an exotic dancer for other men. He performs sex shows for other men and then goes home with them and takes money to do what they ask him to!" His teacher was very shocked, and took him out in the hall. "Why did you say such things?" she said to little Billy. "Well, really, my dad is a Cubs player, but I was too embarrassed to say it in front of the class." - Mr Redbird, from the TESS thread
by adiueordie on Feb 4, 2009 4:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
to what?
there is a link above to Dave talking about how Chris had been trying to play hurt for well over a year. TLR went out of his way to apologize for L’ll Dunc’s injuredness when they finally set him down last year. I don’t have a link, but there were P-D articles and radio interviews about it at the time.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 4, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, you could compare the impact of Duncan versus his replacements
WAR:
Mather: 0.7
Barton: 0.6
Duncan: 0.5
So, Duncan maybe cost us two runs? Three runs?
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
that explains a lot… I like the idea of using the best guy in any situation though
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we're going to find out that Chris Duncan actually has a cannon arm in the field
Or…um, yeah probably not. In any case, while it’s annoying that Duncan’s been playing while incapacitated, if this is true (keep in mind the “finally healthy” spring training mantra) then it’s good news. On the other hand, Mulder said he was “feeling the best he has since being in Oakland” and promptly tanked, so one never knows.
As for the closer-by-committee…I’m happy with that, I guess. I think if they extend it doing that in innings 7-9, not just the 9th, then we’re really onto something.
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
to be fair
we never heard Mark Mulder’s dad say he was healthy…
and we never heard mark mulder’s dad’s dog bark, while live at some bar off the 270…
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 4, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's more trustworthy?
Mark Mulder’s dad, who isn’t involved with baseball in any way and wouldn’t actually know what he was talking about?
Or Dave Duncan, who’s associated with the Cardinals, who are perpetually saying that the injury front is rosy?
(NOTE: I’m not as critical of the medical staff as a lot of people around here, but I do think it’s fair to say that the team has a policy of being publicly optimistic about injury recovery, for whatever reasons.)
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
no one ever gets my jokes.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 4, 2009 1:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i got it, i really did
it would have helped if you said down in Florida on his porch & not off 270 at a bar
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Feb 4, 2009 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i got that one
and it was hilarious.
hiiiiiiiiiiiilaaaaaaaaaaaaaarious!
"So in first grade it was tell about your dad day. Most of the kids came up and said "my daddy’s a doctor" or "my daddy’s a lawyer" or anything like that. Then, it was little Billy’s turn. Little Billy got up in front of his whole class and said "my daddy is an exotic dancer for other men. He performs sex shows for other men and then goes home with them and takes money to do what they ask him to!" His teacher was very shocked, and took him out in the hall. "Why did you say such things?" she said to little Billy. "Well, really, my dad is a Cubs player, but I was too embarrassed to say it in front of the class." - Mr Redbird, from the TESS thread
by adiueordie on Feb 4, 2009 4:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Motte note from the Duncan interview above
I think this is important and merits its own discussion chain:
As for Motte, Duncan said that Motte (who throws so hard) is working on a second and third pitch…And the Cardinals want Motte to develop a changeup…Duncan said there’s no guarantees that [Perez and Motte] will make the club at the end of spring training. It’s difficult to develop new pitches at the major-league level. Much easier to refine those pitches in the minors.
I think this is positive. If Motte needs to spend some time in the minors to work on a second and third pitch, then I’m more than okay with that. This is a guy who only barely pitched double-digit innings last year, so we don’t really have a great idea of how he’ll be against major leaguers when exposed (which I think is a valid concern, since he threw 90% fastballs last year).
I like Motte and I want him to be effective long-term, so I’m on board with him spending some time in the minors if that’s what it takes.
Thoughts? Does Motte need a second/third pitch (specifically a changeup)? Should he be put on the roster regardless, given our current bullpen depth?
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 12:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking
that Motte will probably be going up and down between the majors and the minors
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2009 1:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the other advantage of this is that motte can stay rested at AAA, then be called up later as
a fresh replacement. as much as i like motte, i think it would be good to have someone fresh in july. we have a history of running hard on our bullpens.
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pitchers in AAA pitch too.
"So in first grade it was tell about your dad day. Most of the kids came up and said "my daddy’s a doctor" or "my daddy’s a lawyer" or anything like that. Then, it was little Billy’s turn. Little Billy got up in front of his whole class and said "my daddy is an exotic dancer for other men. He performs sex shows for other men and then goes home with them and takes money to do what they ask him to!" His teacher was very shocked, and took him out in the hall. "Why did you say such things?" she said to little Billy. "Well, really, my dad is a Cubs player, but I was too embarrassed to say it in front of the class." - Mr Redbird, from the TESS thread
by adiueordie on Feb 4, 2009 5:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
aware of that, thanks.
but he could be, shall we say, treated carefully there.
by tom s. on Feb 4, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm Jason Motte
I’m telling them ‘DAMN the SECOND PITCH IF THAT IS WHY YOU ARE SENDING ME DOWN!’ I’ll just stay here with the heater and get people out, thank you very much.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 4, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yep
if he’s still effective with that, and we don’t overexpose him, he can slowly develop in the majors… why not?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
maybe he can work on his arm slot and start throwing a sinker too. Sorry, but I think that whole line of reasoning is a crock. Does Duncan mean to imply that the pitching coach at AAA is better than him? He won’t get any less use in AAA than at the major league level. In fact, they can probably control how often he is used better at the big league level since he would be “the man” at AAA.
I think it would be great if he had a second pitch, but saying he has to go to AAA to learn how to do that is like saying they need to send Luddy to AAA because he swings at too many sliders away. Motte may not be a finished product, but it was pretty obvious last season he was better than all those other guys with second and third pitches.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 4, 2009 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not a good analogy, actually
The reason the minors are a better place for working on pitches is that you can spend a disproportionate amount of time throwing that pitch until you feel comfortable with it, while not giving much thought to the results. If Motte goes down and throws 50% fastballs, 30% infant-changeup, and 20% slider, yes, he might get knocked around a bit at first because the pitches lack effectiveness, but he’s eventually going to become more confident in breaking stuff. (While 20% doesn’t sound like much, Motte has never thrown any offspeed pitch with that kind of frequency in his pitching career. He’d be throwing two different offspeed pitches that much. And, frankly, he could probably go higher.)
If Motte is pitching at the major league level, a) there’s not really a chance for him to work on a pitch between games because relievers rarely get enough rest to merit bullpen sessions and b) results are the priority, so there wouldn’t be any leeway for him to throw a developing pitch and watch it get knocked around a little bit while he works on developing and controlling it. So when is he going to develop secondary pitches? I can tell you from experience, finding a new game-worthy pitch typically doesn’t happen overnight. It took me six months to get enough confidence in my knuckle curve to throw it in a game — though I wasn’t throwing it with the regularity Motte would be afforded by a minor-league stint.
Sending someone to AAA to work on hitting outside sliders isn’t a good practice unless you can convince opposing AAA pitchers to throw him a steady, unrelenting, disproportionately large diet of outside sliders. So, unlike the Motte situation, the games aren’t much use for working on that particular skill. As for between-game workouts, well, there’s no difference between AAA and the majors in that regard. And, in fact, it’s likely that finding a way for a guy to face some BP/cage sliders is significantly easier at the major league level.
I think we all know that Motte is major-league “ready” now — that is, that he can hold his own against MLB hitters. But it’s not about whether he’s ready, it’s about whether he’s as good as he can be. It’s one thing to tell a guy who has four pitches already to work on a new one and keep his other ones fresh — that could be tough. But Motte is expanding on a single pitch. He could easily keep his fastball fresh while picking up a change or sharpening his slider.
If sending him down for a few months and telling him to work relentlessly on his changeup and slider regardless of the results it yields helps him improve, then that’s the way to go. Think about it this way: right now, he could be good. But add a slider to a 100 MPH fastball and you might be looking at 2006 Joel Zumaya (1.94 ERA) or better — Zumaya threw his fastball (98.6 MPH) about 80% of the time that year, and his curveball 15% of the time, but he’s never had great command of the breaking pitch. Add a changeup and maybe you’re looking at, I dunno, Rich Harden bullpen edition? I saw Harden throw a 100 MPH fastball and then baffle a hitter with a 90 MPH changeup in the first inning of a game once (I think it was this game in Japan). Harden basically throws exclusively fastball-changeup but he has such a dominant fastball and a wicked changeup that he doesn’t need a third pitch to rack up ridiculous K/9 numbers — 8.99 career, 11.01 in 2008 (note: Harden also possesses a slider, but after 2006 he basically stopped throwing it, probably to help avoid injury and also because he clearly doesn’t need it very much). And Motte’s fastball is better than Harden’s — Harden only throws his in the low-mid 90s, usually — so he wouldn’t need that same ridiculous movement that Harden gets (people have been mistaking Harden’s changeup for a splitter for his entire career). I mean, can you imagine Harden in the bullpen?
Point is, Motte is an interesting prospect now, but he’d be a super prospect if he had even a passable second pitch. Can he get guys out with just 100-MPH heat? Sure. Would he be better at it if he had a good second pitch (or even a third)? Definitely. Is developing a pitch in the majors as easy as developing a pitch in the minors? I think I’ve provided good reason to think not.
The one place that DOES serve the same purpose as the minors in this regard? Spring training. If I were the Cards, I would have Motte warming up his arm playing catch with a changeup grip, throwing tons of offspeed pitches in bullpen sessions, and throwing tons of offspeed pitches in games. If Motte comes out of ST with a second pitch, then all of this minor league talk is unnecessary!
Long rant. Sorry about that.
Just for fun: here’s a home video of Zumaya throwing a curveball. So nasty, even if he often has no idea where it’s going.
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 4:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point
but I still think the fact that Motte is one of our best relievers trumps everything else. You said it yourself that Zumaya threw over 80% fastballs and was still dominant with a secondary pitch he couldn’t control.
I would differ with you in that I think the only really good time to learn/refine a new pitch is in the off-season. It probably takes at least three months to acquire the necessary muscle memory to make a pitch game worthy.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 4, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference, imo
is that Zumaya is “effectively wild” and Motte isn’t. Motte is always around the strike zone with the fastball, so if he doesn’t know where his breaking pitch is going it’s easy to lay off of it as a hitter. Zumaya’s fastball goes all over the place and it’s hard to pick up out of his hand, so his curveball is still effective because you can’t just sit on the fastball and know you’re going to get a ball around the strike zone. The best pitch you might get to hit in the entire AB might be a hung curveball.
As a hitter, I was taught to look fastball and adjust to everything else, unless a pitcher was tipping you off to a secondary pitch — then look in your zone and try to clobber it. If a guy is throwing 100 MPH, even big leaguers are going to have to look fastball and adjust, so if he can develop a change up out of the same arm slot and learn not to tip it off with his body motion, he could be a dominant reliever because you couldn’t sit change-up as he’d throw the fastball right by you, and you couldn’t sit fastball because the change would always have you out front, causing weak grounders and infield pop-ups. It’s not like he’s developing a change up off of a 90 MPH fastball, he’s got a lot more room for error simply because he throws so damn hard. He could never throw the change for a strike, but still get a lot of punch-outs on check swings.
I don’t think that he’s one of our best relievers, yet. I think he has the potential to be one though.
I would differ with you in that I think the only really good time to learn/refine a new pitch is in the off-season. It probably takes at least three months to acquire the necessary muscle memory to make a pitch game worthy.
I agree with you on this point, however, how do you know a pitch is game worthy until you throw it in a game against live hitters? Throwing a bullpen session is totally different than throwing in the 8th inning of a game with a one run lead. He’s got to be able to trust a new pitch in game situations, and I’d rather he learn that in AAA than learn on the job in the big leagues where he might cost the Cards a win or two because he doesn’t trust his stuff. I’m sure he’s been working on his secondary stuff in the offseason, but he needs to use it in a game to get the feel for throwing it in different situations.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Feb 4, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zumaya's case is different
First, like fourstick said, Zumaya isn’t a control pitcher at all.
Second, and equally importantly, Zumaya’s curveball is sick nasty. It drops about two feet and quickly. Now if anyone thinks Motte is going to suddenly find incredible movement on a breaking pitch, that’s cool. But I really don’t feel like that’s the ultimate place we’re moving toward. We just need something that’s more than a “show” pitch — something that can actually keep hitters off the fastball.
As for the offseason, yes, I agree that that’s the best time to learn a new pitch. But the offseason isn’t necessarily as long as it seems for pitchers — many of them don’t throw at all between the end of the season and sometime in January. And then they start light and build up toward spring training. These guys aren’t throwing 95% effort bullpens all winter. That said, I’m guessing that if Motte knows what’s good for him, he HAS been working on offspeed stuff. But if that offspeed stuff needs more work, well, down to the minors, I say.
And I simply disagree that Motte being one of our best relievers (a questionable idea in itself) should put him on the team instantly. If the difference is a pretty effective Motte and bullpen help now vs. a highly effective Motte for the next five years, I’ll take the latter any day of the week.
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You both make good points
but who do you propose we use in high leverage situations until Motte is “ready”? To me, that is the issue that trumps all others. No minor league prospect is a finished product when arriving at the big leagues. The purpose of the farm system is primarily to help the big league club win by producing players and or trade bait. Why was Motte not pitching somewhere this winter if his secondary pitch is so bad he can’t pitch in the big leagues?
It is interesting to me that we have a lot more problems with pitching prospects not being ready than position players. We readily promote catchers who can’t hit, left fielders who can’t field, etc., but many of the pitchers are deemed not ready for some reason that should have already been corrected in the minors.
I would love to see Motte have a second reliable pitch and see Perez with better command. I would also like to see Wainwright have a better third pitch and McClellan have more stamina, but they are just going to have to work on it at the major league level because they are needed by the big club. I shudder to think who will get trotted out there in key situations if both Motte and Perez are not “ready”.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 4, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not entirely sure why he didn't pitch this winter
But it could just be a matter of workload. 2008 was easily the longest year of Motte’s career pitching-wise. Between a full season at AAA and a late-season big league debut, he threw 77.2 innings. His previous high was 59. Winter leagues are a little trickier for pitchers than hitters in that way.
As for who we use in high-leverage situations…I guess it depends on how the bullpen shakes out, but I’m guessing McClellan, Perez, and Kinney should be available. I’m not that worried about that.
I guess the difference between hitters and pitchers is that a pitcher is either getting people out in AAA or he’s not, and eventually we move him up because he’s not accomplishing anything. With a hitter, even if you can’t field, you can still have success if you’re knocking 45 bombs a year, and your bat (or, in the seemingly exclusive case of catchers, your glove) can outgrow the minors and drag your crappy defense up with it. Then again, working on your defense at the ML-level is easy—and if you believe the Oquendo Mystique, actually better.
As for who should be given time to season…well, I guess the difference is subjective. I’m not convinced that Motte can dominate with his current repetoire, but think he could with another pitch. Tweaking slider control a bit seems to me like something Perez should be able to do in the majors. Adding a whole new pitch? Not so much.
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's easy to answer...
but who do you propose we use in high leverage situations until Motte is "ready"?
You use Kinney, Perez, and McClellan (assuming he’s in the bullpen, and he should be). Kinney is the new Springer and McClellan serves in the role he was in last year. You could use any in a high leverage situation before the 8th, use another one to set-up in the 8th, and the last one to close. With better lefties in the pen this year, McClellan shouldn’t have to face as many lefties as he did last year, so he’ll be more available to pitch full innings or situationally against righties. Franklin becomes the long man since he can go a couple of innings in the 5th and 6th, and you have your bad start fireman in Thompson, who is then DFA’s when Motte is ready to come up.
I truly think that Perez is ready to close games and will prove that he’s up to the task in spring training and over the first month of the season.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Feb 4, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Motte is not ready!
Motte is not ready if he has not learned the second pitch. I saw him in the minors, and the fastball is major league ready, but good hitters could wait for it and hit it. I’ll admit I’m making this conclusion on a small sample size, but I will stand by it. My question is, why did he not learn a second pitch in the off season? I don’t know what the winter procedure is, but if he shows up for ST with the work done, he would be ready. Do these type players get coaching in the off season? On the same subject, for example, why couldn’t Wallace have learned second base in the off season?
by Remember Kenny B on Feb 4, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think they would have to swing the moment he releases the ball
rather than wait for it.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 4, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He may very well have been working on a second pitch this offseason
I don’t know why you’d assume that he hasn’t. As you said, you don’t know what the winter procedure is. And Duncan has now said on the record that the club wants Motte to develop secondary pitches, especially a changeup. It’s fairly likely they made that a priority for Motte going forward, including this winter.
As for why Wallace couldn’t learn to play second…he doesn’t move well enough to play second. The guy is listed at 6’1" 245! He’s me minus two inches, plus 50 pounds. Yikes.
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was really a question.
I was really asking a question. What is the off season like for someone like Motte who has something specific to work on? Does anybody here know? I would love to know that he has been working on refining a second and third pitch. If he has, I say bring him on!
by Remember Kenny B on Feb 4, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good hitters can wait for it
And that’s why he led all of professional baseball in K/9? And struck out 16 in 11 innings in the big leagues?
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 4, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the AAA coach is not better than Duncan
but he is AAA coach for a reason. I’m sick of “experts” who don’t understand that professional major league coaches sometimes send players to the minors to be coached by professional minor league coaches, who are apparently payed to coach players exactly like jason motte.
all minor league coaches who teach a guy a thing or two before he moves up to the major league level suddenly become worthless once that player is sent back down, right?
because motte has been “exposed” to duncan, he suddenly can’t learn from anyone else??
"So in first grade it was tell about your dad day. Most of the kids came up and said "my daddy’s a doctor" or "my daddy’s a lawyer" or anything like that. Then, it was little Billy’s turn. Little Billy got up in front of his whole class and said "my daddy is an exotic dancer for other men. He performs sex shows for other men and then goes home with them and takes money to do what they ask him to!" His teacher was very shocked, and took him out in the hall. "Why did you say such things?" she said to little Billy. "Well, really, my dad is a Cubs player, but I was too embarrassed to say it in front of the class." - Mr Redbird, from the TESS thread
by adiueordie on Feb 4, 2009 5:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What you should be sick of
is that the organization can’t seem to figure out its prospects flaws until they get to the big leagues.
I don’t think the problem is my lack of understanding, the problem may be that you are unwilling to see a problem.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Feb 4, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes the problem....
isn’t training or preparation or the organization’s inability to properly assess prospects while all-knowing VEB’ers exercise their command of the seemingly obvious.
Perez may not ever get better command by “working” on it in the minor leagues. Motte may not be able to develop a better second pitch by “working” on it in the minors. Maybe these things will happen and maybe not. Maybe they will happen faster or “better” if Perez/Motte are in the minor leagues or maybe the big club needs them at their current levels despite their apparent deficiencies. I’m sure the Cards are still evaluating all of these possibilities/options (which are changing and are subject to change througout the winter and into spring training).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 4, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some of it might be hard to evaluate, too
Chris Perez absolutely owned AAA. Everyone down there probably looked ridiculous on his slider, swung at it when it was out of the zone, and just generally made it look like a great pitch. But then you see it against the more seasoned ML hitters and that can be eye-opening. Is this is a good pitch? Yeah, but maybe less so when people aren’t chasing it so much.
Anyway, what are some examples of the organization improperly assessing a prospect’s talent level is this manner? I can’t think of any off the top of my head, but then again, I only got 3 hours of sleep.
by mojowo11 on Feb 4, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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