That's some kind of rotation
by DanUpBaby on Feb 20, 2009 8:45 AM EST
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PrintMust be brief today (you can tell because I left out the personal pronoun); more graduation-related hijinks are set to ensue this morning. So: Stop, for a moment, and think about how the prospect of this 2009 rotation would have seemed to you at this moment last year:
- Adam Wainwright
- Chris Carpenter
- Todd Wellemeyer
- Kyle Lohse
- Joel Pineiro
- Chris Carpenter
- Matt Morris
- Woody Williams
- Jeff Suppan
- Jason Marquis
DAN: Well, you know, Al, this is like making that big Spring Training trade, only you don't have to trade anybody!
AL: You know, it really is.
DAN: Except he didn't show up. Back to you, Dan.
Like I said before: I don't expect the current cast of characters to come anywhere near burning through 150 starts in 2009. Carpenter is, somehow, even more fragile than he was before, and when you go down the list only Wainwright has a genuine advantage on his 2004 analogue.
But the 2004 Cardinals provide an interesting way to think about starting pitching: You have 162 starts to hand out; make sure as many of them as possible go to people who are competent.
The 2004 Cardinals succeeded by somehow getting 154 of them out of their five best pitchers, which is probably an unreachable goal with this or any other group. The 2009 Cardinals need 30 from Wainwright—that seems, with all the necessary pitcher-projection concessions, doable. From Wellemeyer, Lohse, and Pineiro, that all-important sturdy middle, they need to dredge up enough starts to keep the replacement level at bay. And from Carpenter... well, they need to expect nothing, and hope for 20 starts, and wish, silently, as they blow out their birthday candles, for 30. Here's one configuration, presented less as a guess than an example:
- 33 -- Lohse, ~100 ERA+
- 32 -- Wainwright, ~120
- 28 -- Pineiro, ~90
- 25 -- Wellemeyer, ~105
- 15 -- Carpenter, ~115
- 14 -- Boggs, ~90
- 9 -- Thompson, ~90
- 3 -- Mortensen, ~90
- 2 -- bullpen
- 1 -- Hawksworth, INF
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My Baseball Heaven Scenario
Manny gets tired of the West coast antics. He decides to side with his text buddy El Hombre. Signs a modest (yeah right) one year $15 million contract with the Cards & bats clean up behind Albert. The new dynamic duo revive the old saying “El Birdos” & average 45 dingers & 130 rbi’s.
Of course they can’t do it alone. The outfield platoon of Ludwick, Ankiel, Duncan, & Schumaker become known around the league as the Fab Four! The pitching staff goes the WHOLE year without an injury.(remember this is a scenario). Before the trading deadline they bring back David Eckstein to play 2nd & Yes IZZY, who records the final out in the 2009 World Series, & ends his career as a Cardinal being mobbed on the mound! A man can dream. right?
CliffNotes: "My Dad wanted me to be a baseball player!"
Roy Hobbs: "The Natural"
Shouldn't that be
The west coast gets tired of Manny’s antics
by ridgesee on Feb 20, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In this scenario I think it's obvious
that Manny is playing second. He wins the Gold Glove.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
where are we getting that extra $15M?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
From the $72 M
Bill DeWitt has in the war chest from seasons 2006-2008 trade deadlines/off-season.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 20, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I just saw Cheer Accident again for the third time on Friday night
amazing show, over 2 hours of Cheer Accident and I never got bored… have you heard their new album? it’s one of their best… do you have that Gumballhead soundtrack they did? I never heard that.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Thymme Jones is a Cub fan
But I can forgive him. I’m hoping to see Cards-Cubs photography from you this year in Fanshots. Sure, I’ve got Gumballhead: comic, t-shirt and all. I’ll contact you at Hypertextation.
I Don't Get It
Setting the rotation this early feels like a gimmick; a “decision” that is more of an attempt to settle down a ruffled Joel Pineiro. I don’t like it because it removes the incentive for one of the younger guys to work his tail off during ST and try to fill the spot.
Oh, and Wainwright does have some mechanical problems (Inverted W) that put his elbow and shoulder at risk. He’s not as bad as Carp, but his injury risk is non-trivial.
So maybe hope remains for the up-and-comers.
Not really.
Just look at the letters. W M. If you have seen a picture of the inverted W then you would realize it looks like an inverted W and not an M which would have the arms going straight up and down vertically (like an "M") as opposed to on an angle like an inverted “W”.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
Eh, guess it depends on how you write it out. Me? I can barely read my own writing. Just saying M seems simpler than inverted W and it is close enough to get the idea without being too technical.
I think the idea behind the whole thing IS to be technical about it.
Chris spends a LOT of time researching mechanics. To just flippantly say M because it’s easier to say or type would be a misrepresentation of what he’s trying to describe.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
does the use of inverted W
connotate that the pitcher is pitching upside down?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
Wait, was that a serious question?
I thought for a second you were joking, but you might not be.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
So, we should use more thechnical terms just because of Chris's work?
That really makes little sense to me. Why overcomplicate things just so you sound smarter. If Chris can use M versus “inverted W”, then why not? Why invent terminology just so fewer people can understand it?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Well, I was wrong.
He didn’t invent the term. But, if you want to use something that’s less descriptive because you don’t want to type too many words than sobeit.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
I'm sympathetic, but disagree
Chris is good at reducing complicated bio-mechanics to a set of look-for-this clues with visual examples. I think he’s more likely to simplify or omit than over-complicate and I find his work very helpful. I can spot an “inverted W” and explain it to a kid’s dad. I can’t say much about “hyperextension of the glenohumeral joint,” which I think is what “inverted W” is mostly about, and I leave that kind of technical term to the few who can understand it.
by random on Feb 21, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
rec’d.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
Blame Paul Nyman
Some did call it “M.” Some while back, anyway.
I think “Inverted W” is a lot easier to say than “raising the elbows to break the hands,” which was the first way I ever heard it described. In the end, I’m happy to just call it whatever Chris O’Leary and Carlos Gomez do…which is “inverted W.”
Inverted W?
I didn’t invent the term, I just use it because it’s out there. I think the term was coined by Paul Nyman. The same thing goes for the term Inverted L. Someone else coined it and I just use it.
I did come up with the Inverted V term, to a degree to fit with the theme (but also because it is descriptive).
Also, as TB points out there is a subtle difference between the two and the arm action does look more like an Inverted W than a M.
I wouldn't worry too much about them announcing the staff right now...
This is coming from the same guys that said Adam Kennedy would be the starting 2B this season.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Some kind of rotation, indeed.
I’ll tell you what else we can say about these guys; they’re all ballplayers.
And uh, I haven’t thought about Kyle Lohse in a long time. We snatched him up for relatively cheap and he just happened to go and have a career year for us. Then we gave him the huge contract that he was hoping to get all along… I dunno, I have an uneasy feeling about Lohse. And Welley and Pineiro actually. And Carp—gah, what am I doing? It’s spring training, time for optimism!
I really really look forward to running back into the room, or stopping whatever else I was doing for a couple minutes, so I can catch Colby Rasmus’ next (major league for reals actual) at-bat. That’s gonna be sweet.
About Kyle Lohse
One thing I have to point out about Kyle Lohse. DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a fan of the big contract he got. It’s sort of like buying a house at the height of the real estate boom and now you realize you could have gotten it 20 grand cheaper, but hindsight is 20/20. BUT, when people bitch about the 4yr/40 some million contract, they don’t take into account that we got him for one year at 4.25. Combine the two and it doesn’t seem as bad…..5 yrs/45 million. And one of those seasons has given us 200 innings and 3.7ish ERA, so that contract has paid off well so far. Again, I cringe when I think about his extension, but when you think about it like this, it makes it a little easier to swallow:)
Have to disagree.
Last year when the Cards signed Lohse there was a discussion here about it and most people, including me, thought it was a good deal for us. I wrote a comment, though, about the danger of one year deals for guys like Lohse. Lohse is a guy with a “good stuff but usually disappointing” label who is capable of exceeding expectations in any one season. I wrote that, if he does have his first winning season in the last five we should resist the temptation to think that he’s found himself and sign him to a more expensive contract for more years. Others, including Larry B. I remember, agreed with that caution. In my wildest nightmares I never thought that we would resign him for four years and 40 million. Some folks think Duncan has discovered the real Kyle Lohse but I have to point out that Duncan himself is very questionable as far as being a Cardinal after this year.
In cases like Lohse’ s I think that two year contracts actually provide more protection for the club. If he continues to pitch like he did the previous four years he’s still a reasonable fifth starter for two years at a reasonable price. If he gives you two good years then he’s actually proven something and you can consider a longer contract. I hope I’ll be able to eat these words but I think this contract is going to haunt us.
meh
I’m so used to the cardinals rotations being huge ? that it doesn’t even phase me anymore
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
to expound
I mean, we’re the team that somehow got use out of Woody Williams and Jeff Weaver
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Threadjack
Given this blog’s love for The Princess Bride, I thought I’d point out that Rodents of Unusual Size do exist!
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
Who knew The Fire Swamp was located in a residential area of Fuzhou, a city of six million people on China's south coast.
It’s not that bad……well I’m not saying I’d like to build a summer home here but the trees are actually quite lovely.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Feb 20, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Ankiel
“announces he’s retiring as a pitcher again, for good measure.” Love it.
I also love the line in Goold’s blog about the commercials. My beard is itchy – that means it’s working. Funny stuff.
If there's one thing
I don’t want to beat the cubbies at it’s having the worst off season.
Of course, as with everything, only time will tell. Hindsight is always 20/20.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Feb 20, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions
I thought that piece was a tad harsh on the redbirds...
on the surface….a big deal for lohse, a .213 hitting SS, releasing a $4 million 2B, and a slew of questions marks at lefty relief looks pretty bad. I think we will be the team to beat if….
Colby is the real deal
Lohse wins 15 games again
Carpenter starts 20+ games
Khalil rebounds to hit .250 with 20 homers
Skip plays “in the neighborhood of average” 2B
Major League Motte and Perez pitch like Minor League Motte and Perez
Miller is Miller and Ostlund/Manning/Ring are better than Flores
Pujols and Wainwright stay healthy…
I don’t really think any of this is THAT far fetched….and then Mo will look like a genius…its fun being optimistic
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
If most of these things break
the Cards way, then JMo will be patted on the back for his fiscal responsibility. Agree with Ghost on this point … but it still looks more like a house of cards (pardon the pun) as we sit here today. If one major element fails (i.e., Carp turns back into Mulder), then the Cards are a mediocre team. We’ll see how it plays out. If we still playing meaningful games in September, I’ll be impressed.
I wish we could switch out Pinata for Looper...
Then I would feel better about this rotation. I can’t see Piniero doing all that well chip or no chip. If you can’t pitch past the 5th inning you probably shouldn’t be a starting pitcher.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
If the five guys at the top of your list
all perform at their 90th-percentile PECOTA projections, no further fantasies are needed.
shocking news of the day:
what the hell tony?
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions
Groan
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 20, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...
but i think i said it best with…“What the hell, Tony?”
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly!
Rasmus should be in Memphis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait, that’s what you’re questioning, right?
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
umm...no
Colby has power, speed, and huge on-base skills. He and the team would benefit tremendously from hitting second as long as he’s hitting like he’s capable of hitting. Dude, don’t act like I’m stupid…Obviously I’d rather him hit 9th than in memphis. It just doesn’t make sense to have potentially one of your best players hitting last. That isn’t done at any level of baseball…not in tee-ball, little league, college, minors, women’s softball, or in the majors. It just doesn’t make sense. He should hit 1st or 2nd AS LONG AS HE’S PRODUCING. If he starts slow…like he has done in the past…then yeah, hit him 9th.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Calm down.
I was kidding for crying out loud.
And I think you’re getting a little worked up about the lineup on February the 20th.
edit:
I can’t believe my eyes. As I’m about to hit “post” i see another comment pop us from you up the tread that says:
I wouldn’t worry too much about them announcing the staff right now…
This is coming from the same guys that said Adam Kennedy would be the starting 2B this season.
Take your own advice.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
you had a point though
Rasmus could be in Memphis til midseason, depending on how spring training goes.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
There's a difference between joking and being a smartass...
but now you are just being an asshole, because I said “don’t act like I’m stupid”. Ah…whatever, man.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yea!
Now I’m an asshole.
If you were joking before, than admit to it without calling me an asshole. Obviously, it’s tough to read intent in the written word so if I mis-understood, forgive me.
But, before you get bent out of shape about me mis-understanding your written word intent, you might want to read over the Community Guidelines before deeming me an asshole.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
you must be a friend
because all my friends are assholes
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
actually it is done in T-ball
because you have to get a home run and who better to do it than your best hitter
Chuck Norris hit a Home Run
with his beard
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 20, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think TLR would make
a world class T-ball manager.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
That's what I
would say. I want him in the lineup. We’ll work out where he’s hitting later. Of course, if he hits, and someone struggles – La Russa will bump him up – that’s what he does.
I see it the reverse way...
If he doesn’t hit in say…the 2 hole…then bump him to 9th….if he’s being productive and crushing the ball it shouldn’t be wasted in the 9 hole after the pitcher
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
somebody pointed out that albert started hitting in the 6 slot,
but got moved up within a month or so. i think tony just doesn’t like to put people in high leverage spots (cleanup, leadoff, etc.) before they’ve become accustomed to the bigs. i don’t think starting at 9 is a sign that razza will stay there.
but #2 is a good landing spot for him, also.
dude
it’s the 2nd leadoff spot, remember? he’s perfect for the 9 spot.
his power is wasted there
the 9th spot is best for guys with no power and decent OBP’s.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
It doesn't really matter anyway
because Colby isn’t going to make the team. As long as L’il Dunc is healthy (read: can walk) Colby will be in Memphis. They aren’t going to use him as a part-time player and there is pretty much zero chance he beats out either Duncan or Ankiel.
Only way he goes north is if there is a trade or a major injury.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
I think there's a reasonable chance...
Rasmus could start for the team with Duncan as the #4 OFer. If Skip is successful at 2B Rasmus is the only TRUE CF we have left, though Ankiel is capable and Ludwick and Mather wouldn’t embarass themselves there (pretty amazing the we could have six OFers (if you count Barton) who could at least fill in at center). Compared to the rest of the group Duncan is SO inferior defensively it would be hard to justify starting him.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
What is going to happen to...
Brian Barton? It seems that the deck is stacked against him. Also, if Skip wasn’t vying for 2B, I think that he would be gone too.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Feb 20, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yes!
I think Barton is way underrated on this board. I’m hoping he breaks out in spring.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
dude
you’re not talking to the right people… I want him to be on the team fo shizzles. maybe even a starter
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don't disagree with your logic
but I don’t think logic will come into play much. I can’t imagine that TLR would sit Dunc on the bench so Raz can play unless Dunc is so injured he is completely unable to play. Since neither Dunc nor Ankiel are worth much on the trade market until they can prove their health, Raz will be in Memphis.
He might “elbow somebody aside” at some point, but it won’t be Dunc’s son (Chris) or TLR’s son (Ank). I want to see Rasmus play, but not enough to trade Ludwick unless it is a very one-sided deal.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
i agree with some of what you say, but i don't buy some of the logic.
tony clearly has influence on who gets sent where, but he’s not the final word (see, anthony reyes 2008; aaron miles, 2009). Mo is not against overruling him. and i think razza is exactly the kind of case where mo would overrule tony.
i think it’s likely that razza will spend some time in memphis, but more to gain currency for a trade for ankiel or duncan. i don’t think either is immune from being moved. i can’t really see mo selling off our primary right handed hitter from the OF. if we’re going to move somebody, it will be a lefty. if they can show they’re healthy, i think dunc and ankiel have some value. my best guess is razza comes up in may-june after a trade for one of those two.
of course because you already know everything
“if we’re going to move somebody, it will be a lefty” every post you have is filled with comments that you dont have a clue about. It would never happen but if hanley ramirez got offered for anyone one of our right handed hitting OFers we would take it but wait NOOOOOOO tom s says we will ONLY be moving a lefty
well, if they offer us
hanley for joe mather or brian barton, I’m sure Tom S will admit he is wrong ;)
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
what is with the attitude?
have you made a comment yet where you didn’t totally attack a poster personally? You are not gonna get everyone to agree with you on everything, so why act all pissy about it? You just enjoy being a pain?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
by mattyfrommo on Feb 20, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Well
Mo may be able to force Raz on the 25-man roster, but he can’t force TLR to play him. The forcing a player on the roster thing didn’t work out too well for Mo with Reyes. The only real choice he has is to move the player or not re-sign him a la Miles.
Since both Dunc and Ank have to prove they are healthy and, in Duncan’s case, productive then Ras will be sent out. Duncan and Ank can’t prove anything unless they play regularly.
Just for clarity, I am not in favor of this scenario as I think Duncan should have to “prove” himself at Memphis to start the season, but I very much doubt that will even be considered unless he is too injured to play and needs to do a rehab stint.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Side deal likelihood
Could be a side deal in mix with AK dfa, Skip 2B tryout, CDunc’s remaining option and the need for a CF. The FO made a deal that AK would go and Colby is the replacement on the 25 man roster. Who knows.
If Colby hits in ST he’s on the team. If Colby has a tough ST, then he starts in Memphis. If CDunc struggles, he’s in Memphis otherwise on the bench to provide some serious punch the Cards lacked last year.
CDunc’s option is very valuable this year because we don’t have to keep him on the 25 man roster or risk losing him.
Makes perfect sense
I guess I am just too jaded regarding TLR getting his way with his favorites.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Tony LaRussa
King of head games.
Psychological Help 5 cents. The Doctor is OUT.
Baseball Fever.... Catch it!
lol
but in this case, i think he’s just speculating, and goold took a throwaway comment and wrote an interesting article with it.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
I guess so
But for good or ill, I’m not sure a throwaway comment exists anymore.
Baseball Fever.... Catch it!
I'm just going to let TLR do his thing.
as long as the W’s start piling up, I don’t care who hits where
I'm not sure that I'm that concerned
Is it really that bad to get him some low leverage ABs for a bit? Let him just focus on getting on base. If he hits for power, great. Maybe he gets on and can steal a few bags.
I’m more fired up that Pineiro is the Number 5 starter without any competition. I thought no one’s position is assured. I would like Kmac to at least have a chance to beat him out.
Would I bat Colby 9th if I were manager?
No. In the grand scheme of things, do I give a damn where Colby hits, as long as it’s in the STL lineup? Hell no. Let’s not nitpick here; the goal is to get Rasmus on the field in St. Louis every day, and if this is what it takes, I can’t complain.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Feb 20, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
The makeup of the lineup is at least 10 times more important to me than the order.
by Merry CRasmus on Feb 20, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I complain about Tony a lot but I don’t have a big problem with this. I think Tony sees this as a way of protecting Colby so that there isn’t too much pressure on him right away, and that may not be a bad idea given that he has a history of taking a month or two to adjust to each new level.
by mikedallas45 on Feb 21, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
I hope
Oquendo is the one driving tonight.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 20, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Team 2009
The health of Carpenter, Wanwright and Pujols are the key to 2009. We will be tough to beat with that troika.
If we do happen to make the playoffs and go all 2006 on everyone, I think we’ve got a shot at the team of the decade. How cool would it be to say we had the best team of the aughties?
As i posted on your site...
I think for the cardinals to earn this title…they have to win it all and boston has to make it as a wild card. to balance out the 04 series saint louis must beat boston otherwise people would point to that ’04 sweep and say it tips the scales in favor of boston
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Red Sox
Not a bad point, but if they meet in the World Series, the two teams will tie with the number of pennants. Having 3 pennants to the BoSox 2 would tip the scale in the Cards favor (IMO).
true...
but having the 3 pennants would just was because …we’d each have 2 w.s. titles, with a head-to-head win against each other and we’d each have 1 w.s. loss.
then you’d have to turn to division titles, which even if the win theirs this season we’d have 6 they’d have only 2. And overall playoff appearances – we’d have 7, they’d have 6.
I just think that ’04 series is too decisive in their favor
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
that should read..
3 pennants each would just wash*
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 20, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
BoSox
If anything, I’d be more worried about their phenomenal winning percentage in the playoffs. To me that is worth more than 1 series. I think another pennant (for the Cards) is worth more than how the Red Sox won one of their World Series titles. The sweep does make me sick just thinking about it though. I had tickets to game 5 of the World Series that year.
Seeing the last game of the 2006 World Series washed away the bitterness though…
True
I guess it could have been worse. Though at the time I was wondering if I’d ever have the opportunity to see a World Series game.
Best rotation in the NL potentially
The upside of the Cardinal rotation is that it is not out of the question for it to be the best in the NL this year. Yes, of course, that’s the giddy optimism of the first week of spring training, and there are big question marks. But Carpenter in five sessions now has looked back to normal strength (which is to say Cy Young quality), Wainwright says his finger problem last year was a fluke and he’s adopted exercises to make sure it doesn’t happen again. That’s two #1 pitchers (or at least a #1 and a #1.5) who, if they’re healthy, match up with any pair in the league. Then Lohse and Wellemeyer are legitimate #3 hurlers. And the #5 and backup slots have much more depth than the team has had in a few years: if Pineiro fizzles (not out of the question, to say the least) or if Carp goes down again, there’s a good chance that a really good (not merely stopgap) replacement will emerge among McClellan (a poor man’s Dan Haren?), Boggs, Mortenson, Todd (maybe the best dark horse in the bunch), Walters, and Hawksworth (whose blue chip prospect stuff and poise seem to have returned, praised rather effusively by the normally taciturn Dave Duncan in early workouts), all with far better potential than the like of the 2006 “sixth starter”, Dennis Tankersly…..
idk about #3
Lohse pitched like a #2 then like a #5, so i guess that averages to a 3.5 or something.
When
was the last season that all 5 starters won at least 10 games, an admittedly poor measure of their performance, but still an indication of a good rotation?
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Feb 20, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
It was
2005, Carp with 21 wins, Mulder, Suppan, Marquis, and Morris all well above 10. Is this year’s projected rotation better or worse than 2005?
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Feb 20, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Hawksworthian?
Maybe, but I am gonna go with 12 starts (all in Piniero’s slot), 70IP, and a 4.30 ERA or maybe a 4.60 FIP
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
healthy pitching staff = playoffs
if we lose one of those guys (well, if Pineiro gets hurt, that might actually bolster the staff, who knows) to an injury, it will probably be as frustrating as last season, (well, hopefully not that frustrating our Sept. was a joke) just missing the playoffs by not that much. If Wainwright gets hurt again and Carpenter can’t win more than 10 games, we are screwed. We also need Lohse and Welley to remain effective to have a strong core starting pitching… while the bullpen should be improved this year, I don’t want to have to rely on them. if we need more starting pitching, at least we should be able to pull off some sort of trade for a good starter, right?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 2:10 PM EST reply actions
I agree
but I would rather see the Cards give K-Mac a chance as a starter before trying to pull off a trade, in the event that one of the original 5 starters goes down.
my feeling is that if McClellan is in the starting rotation
he will be one of the injured pitchers… but then again, our starting rotation is riddled with such scenarios
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Orlando Hudson signs with Dodgers
I wonder what it would take to pry Blake DeWitt from them?
If we traded for him, should we force him to drop the ‘b’ from his first name?
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 20, 2009 3:16 PM EST reply actions
I was thinking the same thing.
This pretty much forces DeWitt off the team (or to a new new position?)
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
I would be interested in getting him
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 21, 2009 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
That would be cool.
I’m sure everyone knows this, but he’s from Sikeston, MO.
I thought he was from that area just to the North of Busch Stadium?
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
I'm not sure
which area you mean. Maybe he was born somewhere else, but he played his high school ball in Sikeston, Mo.
I'm talking about the area directly to the north of Busch.
practically adjacent to Busch on the North side of the stadium like right around the area where the old Busch used to stand….
I’m trying to help out as much as possible without coming right out and saying it. Look back at Hardcore’s post and you should get it. I know it’s not the best joke in the world…….
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
it's wet . . . it's expensive . . . it's behind schedule . . . .
by tom s. on Feb 20, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well I presume he did come from a woman so yeah
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 20, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow
That’s so wrong…I’m laughing…but it’s so wrong.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 20, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
why am i the 1st one to rec that?
awesome
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I'm still wondering who had the skill to walk
that and not make it look like a 5 year old with a big crayon in their fist.
The Blake
of the lake. His hand adorned in shimmering samite, held aloft the sword excalibur from the bosom of the water. That is why he is our king.
(Although I didn’t vote for him.)
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
Listen
Strange men, lying in ponds, distributing funds is no basis for managing a ballclub. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 20, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bah!
You’re so clever ;)
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 20, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Cubs tickets went on sell today
My cub fan brother-in-law got tickets to the April 17th afternoon game. My wife and and he and his wife will be going…my first wrigley experience and my first cardinals-cubs game…very excited i am
that is all
You can almost bet on it.
Even if it seems nice outside, my advice to VolsnCards5 is to prepare to bundle up. That stadium is an ice box in April.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
ps
we should go to a cards cubs game this season
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but it's tougher than shit to get tix if you don't jump on it right away (and obviously we didn't)
the only time i see the Cards here in Chicago is with my buddy who has season tix. He’ll take me to at least one game a year which is really nice.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
who knows, we'll see what happens
maybe get benny to get tix, I’d pay up to $50 if it’s far enough in advance
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to my first Cards/Cubs game May 19 @ Busch
don’t remember the exact section, but 24 rows from the field to the home plate side of the Cards dugout. (birthday gift from wife)
combine that with my tickets to the All Star game, and I could probably die a happy man (as long as it’s after the All Star game)
I haven't been to a Cards-Cubs game in several years
and I don’t care if I ever go again. I just find most Cubs fans at Cards-Cubs game insufferable (and most of my friends are Cubs fans), and that was before they even had reason to be.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
yet
I am always amazed at how many cardinal fans are there
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Fox sports actually gave us a decent ranking...
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/powerRankings
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
Braves?
I realize Derek Lowe is a terrific addition for them, but 8th overall?
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Feb 20, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
well, they weren't nearly as bad as their record last year
they lost a ton of one-run games. I wouldn’t have them that high, but they are an above average NL team. Arizona is the team whose ranking I don’t understand. They’ll win 83 games in large part because they get to play SD and COL 32 times, but they are not a top-ten MLB team by any means.
And it’s astounding that they have MIL below Houston.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
The Braves also faced a ton
of injuries last year. Remember the lineups they were trotting out against us in Atlanta late in the year?
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 20, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
They did lose a ton of one-run games last year
But I don’t think they were that good, and I don’t think they’ll be that good this year. Bobby Cox doesn’t seem like so great of a manager when he doesn’t have Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz all in their prime, does he?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 20, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
well Houston did add Mike Hampton and Aaron Boone
that probably accounts for the edge
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Kevin Gregg a plus?
I love how the Cubs get credit for adding a lesser player than they gave up. Anybody really think Gregg is going to be better than Wood would have been? They also get credit for adding a DH who hasn’t played more than 20 games in the outfield since steroids were legal (or at least not tested). I’ll take DeRossa for half the cost please!
If that’s all you have to do to be a GM sign me up!
Those rankings are trash
Whoever it is that wrote that liked the move of replacing Burrell with Ibanez. He LIKED it.
JD Drew
starting out the season kinda hurt again
http://soxblog.projo.com/2009/02/spring-training-34.html
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 5:32 PM EST reply actions
yeah, they don't seem to have a great CF presence beyond ellsbury, do they?
with crisp gone, their next penciled in name in CF is some dude – van every? looks like he had his first cuppa in the majors at the ripe age of 29.
I could see that – ank could be credible either in a corner or in CF.
I can just hope it woudl work out as well for as the Drew trade
Anyone want a second Wainwright+?
Lester for Ank!
get it done Mo!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
He's no Mike Hampton, though
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 20, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
someone should make a list
of all oft injured players, it could be the balsa wood team
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
I don't wanna see Ank go but could you imagine the damage he could do playing half his games in Boston?
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
isringhausen signs with rays.
per goold:
Former Cards closer Jason Isringhausen agreed to a minor-league deal with the Tampa Bay Rays today, he just confirmed.
ill believe it when someone besides you posts it
so someone else please confirm this
er ok
Former Cards closer Jason Isringhausen agreed to a minor-league deal with the Tampa Bay Rays
today, he just confirmed.
Rays like our castoffs huh?
Does that make the Rays the former Angels 2.0?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 20, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Let's trade them Glaus for Longoria.
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
Pineiro for Price?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 20, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
C'mon
stick with the Angels theme……
Because now you’re just being ridiculous. There’s no way they’d trade Price for Piniero. If only we still had Jeff Weaver……………
Meeting is adjourned. Oh I am sorry sir, I didn't mean to overstep my bounds. You say that.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
No, you say that, Governor.
What?
Meeting is adjourned.
It is?
by Tackle Box on Feb 21, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What the hell?
Here’s another link for you to follow
some refer to them as the community guideline, you might enjoy reading them. I know I would if you did.
I think this
might be the poster from the other day who said that he’ll just get another username if he gets banned. Nice, huh?
click on Retire51's name
go to his profile, click on his posts. pretty much every one of them is a direct shot at “tom s.” or an agreement with someone else who disagreed with “tom s.”.
Retire51 adds nothing to this site. Ban him, please. He obviously only posts here because he has some kind of vendetta against “tom s.”. hopefully the mods or whatever have figured this out by now, because i’m pretty sure i’m not the only one who has flagged his posts as “troll”. especially after this thread.
by adiueordie on Feb 21, 2009 7:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Glaus and Pineiro for Longoria and Price...C'mon Mo get it done...
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
We'll even pay all of Glaus' and Pineiro's contracts
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 21, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
i'd also be ok with taking kennedy and izzy back
if it gets the deal done. they can be stashed in AAA anyway.
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