Perez -- pitching release points and performance
by chuckb on Feb 19, 2009 7:00 AM EST
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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PrintOn Monday, Harry Pavlidis over at BtB put together a terrific post about Chris Perez’s release points on his pitches. This is the 2nd time Harry’s looked at the Cards’ potential closers in the last few weeks as he compared Perez, Motte, and Carpenter just a few weeks back. The bottom line – Perez is all over the place w/ his release points. We know that Duncan is working w/ him on repairing it this spring so I wanted to try and discern the effect that his erratic release points had on his performance in ’08.
The first column is, obviously the date. The 2nd is the number of inches, as estimated from Harry’s graph, by which Perez’s slider’s release point differed from his fastball’s release point in the game. I’ve added the number of horizontal inches to the number of vertical inches in order to get a rough approximation of the distance between the two pitches’ release points. The 3rd column is the number of earned runs Perez allowed during that game.
| Date | # of inches | ER |
|---|---|---|
| 6/8 | 7 | 0 |
| 8/8 | 6.5 | 0 |
| 5/16 | 5 | 0 |
| 6/1 | 5 | 1 |
| 8/6 | 4.8 | 0 |
| 6/7 | 3.5 | 0 |
| 9/5 | 3.4 | 1 |
| 9/13 | 3.4 | 1 |
| 8/15 | 3.2 | 0 |
| 6/25 | 3 | 0 |
| 9/3 | 3 | 2 |
| 6/15 | 2.8 | 2 |
| 9/7 | 2.8 | 0 |
| 9/18 | 2.8 | 1 |
| 6/19 | 2.5 | 2 |
| 8/11 | 2.1 | 0 |
| 6/22 | 2 | 1 |
| 8/24 | 2 | 0 |
| 5/20 | 1.9 | 0 |
| 9/27 | 1.7 | 0 |
| 8/13 | 1.4 | 0 |
| 6/2 | 1.3 | 0 |
| 9/9 | 1.3 | 0 |
| 9/23 | 1.1 | 0 |
| 7/6 | 0.9 | 1 |
| 6/29 | 0.8 | 1 |
| 7/9 | 0.5 | 1 |
| 8/27 | 0.3 | 0 |
There’s clearly a difference between how Perez performed when there was less than 2 inches difference between his fastball delivery and his slider delivery and when there were 2 or more inches difference between the 2 deliveries. (Yes, I realize it’s not exactly 2 inches since we’re basically dealing w/ the hypotenuse of a right triangle. The point is that I’m dividing it between considerable distance between the 2 delivery spots and slight difference between the 2 delivery spots.)
| ERA | H/9 | HR/9 | BB/9 | K/9 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| less than 2 inches difference | 2.38 | 6.35 | 0.79 | 4.76 | 9.53 |
| 2 or more inches difference | 5.21 | 9.00 | 1.42 | 5.68 | 9.95 |
Yes, I realize the sample sizes are ridiculously small. Still, there’s a noticeable difference. I’m not all that surprised that the K/9 is slightly higher when the distance between the two release points is greater. It’s gotta be more difficult to hit the ball when you don’t know where the hell it’s coming from. Still, when they did hit it, it got hit hard. When he was more consistent w/ his 2 release points, he was much better. It’ll be interesting to see if Duncan can have an impact on Perez’s release points and, therefore, his performance. It wouldn’t surprise me if he did. In the article I wrote for the (caution: Shameless Plug Alert!) Cards Maple Street Annual, I determined that Duncan had a noticeable impact on Cardinal pitchers since his arrival. Purchase it and check it out!
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Tipping pitches
I’m guessing this is what they mean when LaDunc is worried about Perez tipping his pitches, right? If a batter sees his release point coming off at a degree varying greatly from where his fastball usually does, then the hitter knows it is his slider and he can hammer it. Am I correct with that assumption? Great post by the way Chuck!
And I’ll try and set the over/under on K-Mac’s starts at 12. I’ll go w/ over, only because I agree that Joel’s little whining episode is going to piss Tony off, and he’ll have more incentive to start McClellan over Piniero.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
Always wondered
I’ve always wondered about the whole “tipping pitches” thing. I can maybe see if a pitcher has a TOTALLY different windup when throwing different pitches, how a hitter might be able to guess what is coming. But, by the time he gets to his release point (and I’ve played a lot of baseball) there is NO WAY for a hitter to pick that up. Once the ball is released a hitter has 4 tenths of a second. There is no way and no time when you get to the release point to say to yourself “hey wait a minute, his hand is 5 inches higher, that means slider!!!” So I don’t think release point has anything to do with “tipping pitches”. I think its more of an issue that at different release points his pitches are just more hittable, maybe flatter or something. Just my two cents…..
I hate to be blunt
But you’re not right about that. Changing the arm angle involves changing the whole shoulder tilt and probably arm action up till that point which you ab-so-lutely pick up zero questions about it. They’ve done studies on this (in tennis especially), if you change the leadup to “release” it dramatically changes your ability to guess what’s going to happen. A hitter doesn’t have .4 seconds after release, he has like .07 of a second after release………it’s the pre-release (supination, arm angle etc) stuff that is what you do see. If he’s still consistently dropping down on the slider, it’s a serious problem.
Not afraid to nitpick
Ok so
How about I throw three 97 MPH fastballs at you, each with two inches of difference in release point. So you’re saying you can tell me which pitch was 2 inches higher, which was 2 inches lower, and which was right in the middle, not to mention you have to swing at these pitches. Like I said, if he’s got a totally different lead up to different pitches, yeah you could pick that up. But 2 inches difference….I highly doubt it. I’m sure a camera and computer can pick that difference up quite easily, but then again a computer can’t play in the major leagues….wait a minutes Pujols’ awesomeness does seem somewhat cybernetic.
You're still missing the point
If his release point is two inches higher or lower, that means his entire shoulder lean, arm angle, and supination leading up to the release point are going to be different. Trust me, you could pick up the difference, and major league hitters are much better at picking up things like this than you are.
Tony Gwynn used to be able to tell from a pitcher’s elbow angle when he broke his hands whether the pitch that was coming was a breaking ball or a fastball. Obviously that is an extreme example, but there are plenty of MLB regulars who could pick up slight changes in delivery and exploit them.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I think you were missing my point
I’m not saying MLB hitter’s can’t pick up any variations at all, I just don’t think they have the time to adjust unless it is an EXTREME difference in arm slots, etc. In 2006 World Series (which I watched the other week on MLB channel, YAY) I saw how Jeff Weaver would occasionally drop arm slot WAAAYY down for a nasty slider. So why weren’t the Tigers crushing his pitches out of the park if they could see this coming from a mile away???? Notice that (refencing the chart above) Perez had good results when the difference in release point was either nil or extreme. The area in between, he wasn’t good. What I’m saying is that I believe when he throws pitches where the release point is in the middle, they are just bad, hittable pitches. It isn’t because the hitter can pick up that release point, its that at that release point it is a flat lifeless pitch
that's a good point
It would be neat to have a more in-depth analysis that shows result for each pitch location (in the strike zone) sortable by release point. That way we can eliminate data points where the ball was grooved; what we’re interested in is “when does a good pitch get hit hard”.
Obviously if he throws more “bad pitches” with a good arm angle, or vice versa, that would also be of interest.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
Hit It If You Can
“I saw how Jeff Weaver would occasionally drop arm slot WAAAYY down for a nasty slider. So why weren’t the Tigers crushing his pitches out of the park if they could see this coming from a mile away????”
Some pitchers are lucky, or skilled, enough to have “Hit it if you can pitches.” That’s a pitch a good hitter can’t hit even though he knows it’s coming. Sandy Koufax’s curveball was a great example. You knew exactly what it was, and what it would do, but still couldn’t hit it.
Wainer’s curve has some aspect of that.
Just ask Carlos Beltran.
Also, the point below about Weaver throwing his FB from that same arm slot is enough to make a hitter pause.
There's an element of surprise involved
If you’re focusing to try to discern between two release points close together, the ball’s spin, etc. and suddenly there’s a pitch coming from several feet away from where it normally does, that’s not really the same kind of adjustment as the one we’re talking about. There’s a reason you may be able to get away with throwing a two-pitch arsenal overhand (fastball/slider, for example), but nobody can get away with throwing a two-pitch arsenal of overhand fastball and sidearm slider. Likewise, there’s a reason you’re not likely to see those drop-down guys like Weaver and Arroyo do it more than a few times per game — it’s a surprise pitch, and it won’t work if you overexpose it for the very reason you’re mentioning: it would become too easy to adjust to.
On the other hand, you can get away with shifting arm angles more if you can throw more than one pitch from each arm angle. I know Weaver did this (as gdowdy3 mentioned above) and I personally do it at the college level, for what that’s worth. I believe El Duque has several sidearm pitches as well. In that case, you can use this variation to create more variation for the hitter to adjust to, which is its own benefit even if you lose the element of surprise.
I agree
And the camera/computer can be wrong, too. The thing to look for a more robust differences. Clearly, he’s got a lower slot, but is it visible to the hitters? That’s really hard to say. I’m sure he’s got a tendency to drop it down, but I’m not sure it’s material. Given the correlation between the data and what Perez and the coaching staff seem to say, it does make you wonder.
by Harry Pavlidis on Feb 19, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
the human mind's processing power
is still greater than that of any supercomputer btw… well, at least for a year or two more anyway.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Changing the release point by 3 inches isn’t going to be terribly noticeable.
Also, most tipping occurs much earlier because by the time the ball is released you’re very close to the decision point and don’t have much time to react.
Most guys who tip tend to hold their gloves slightly differently when they break their hands or slow down their deliveries.
Most guys don't tip with their arm angle, true
But most guys also don’t have high-profile stories about their struggles with arm-angle consistency floating around for everyone to read. In my eyes, the problem isn’t so much that everyone would pick up on this, it’s that now everyone could know that they can specifically look for that difference when facing Perez.
I doubt a 3 inch different would be terribly obvious either, but that doesn’t mean a good hitter couldn’t discern the difference if they were actively looking for it. That’s the way I see it, at least.
A two-three inch change
is easily percieved by any batter with decent eyesight. MLB centerfield walls(and the batter’s eye section just beyond it) are not smooth, solid surfaces.
Because the backdrop is so far away, one pitch may be released with the middle of the tarp covering old centerfield bleachers as a backdrop, but a two inch drop could make the ball appear out of the top of the fence instead.
by Beardsville Rockers on Feb 19, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, but I'm with joker on this one
It’s simply incorrect to think that major-league hitters can’t pick up changes in arm slot.
You say that the hitter doesn’t have time to think, “Hey wait a minute, etc.” But then again, the hitter doesn’t have time to think, “I think that pitch is going to be three inches outside” either, do they? And yet somehow they still take pitches. The mind doesn’t operate at the speed of language.
Hitters pick up a lot of minute details and react to them with astonishing speed. Arm slot is one. Spin on the ball is another — hell, hitters have even less time to react to ball spin because it’s a post-release occurrence. If hitters couldn’t react to ball spin, breaking balls would be extraordinarily difficult to hit.
This is stuff that even my college teammates (not me, I don’t hit, haha) can pick up with some of the time, and none of them are major-league caliber players.
Knowing what to look for
will make it more likely they can pick it up, too.
by Harry Pavlidis on Feb 19, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
This is what really worries me about Perez. Like some of the people in this thread, I’m not seeing much of a correlation between release point and results in this data. But I do worry that if the league picks up on Perez’s arm slot tendencies, they’ll start knowing to look for that lower arm slot on the slider and then we WILL start to see him have problems.
As Jason LaRue said yesterday after jacking a homer off Fernando Salas in live BP: “That’s what happens when you know what’s coming.”
Also it may be that you are looking for a certain pitch
So you are sitting on fastball and when you see the right arm slot you fire away with confidence. Or if you see the lower slot, you know it is slider and you lay off. I don’t think this is beyond the realm.
Also, I think much more frequent pitch tipping is when guys do things like hold the ball differently in their glove on setup. You can see this much earlier and are ready for the pitch.
They talked about this a bit on MLB network last night and the former players all agreed that many pitchers tip. They also said that some very effective pitchers tip and you still can’t hit their nasty stuff. But certainly hitters are looking for tips.
This is more the way pitches are tipped.
A batter seeing an unusual arm angle isn’t thinking so much “okay, i know it’s the slider, now I’ll hammer it”
More like “that doesn’t look right, screw this I’m bailing out on this pitch”
It allows them to wait on the fastball more because they can even more sure of its movement relative to the breaking ball.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
Deltas
“It’s simply incorrect to think that major-league hitters can’t pick up changes in arm slot.”
They can pick up and act on major changes in arm slot, but not minor changes in arm slot.
That is because a pitcher’s whole motion is going to vary depending on the arm slot, and you can pick that up at the high-cocked position, for example.
I've gotta go w/ joker on this one
It makes more sense that the difference in the release points is created by an alteration in the arm angle or shoulder slot, which is what the batters are able to pick up on.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 19, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Have you ever read the book
“Blink” by Malcolm Gladwell? He doesn’t address pitch-tipping, but he does write about tennis. People with practiced eyes can predict a serve’s outcome while the player is in the middle of their serve. These snap judgments are very common among professional athletes and scouts. I cannot prove how they do it. But they are able to somehow sense/see/predict these things, like what pitch is being thrown, with regularity.
Great book
Yeah, it stands to reason the same principle would apply. The human mind is capable of processing large amounts on information that are not even on our conscious “radar.” Obviously some people are better at this than others — Pujols, Gwynn, etc.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
Pujols does not fall under the header of "people"
Though it is, of course, still up for debate whether he is a robot or a minor deity.
I don't think minor deities
have arm problems that need corrective surgery. Minor deities are at least full-fledged gods. I think Prince Albert falls under the heading of demigod, or maybe semigod. Or maybe a hemi-demi-semi-god.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
and amauri marti.
he gets angry when you leave him off lists like this.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
Maybe Jeff meant
Fulfill your vast potential for a change-up and win some games. Because his heater was getting killed last year. Your link to Gordo’s article doesn’t seem to be working, It’s cool chuck, I’ve got your back.
The talk of Perez’s release point gave me déjà vu, they’ve been working on this for a while.
Perez, rated the No. 2 prospect in the list I help write for Baseball America, was one of the select pitchers to join the Cardinals "Classic Mechanics" mini-camp and he was a non-roster invitee to the major-league camp. At each, the coaches fine-tuned his mechanics. It took one turn through live batting practice for pitching coach Dave Duncan to tell Perez to stop throwing out of the windup. There’s no need.
"I think moving to the stretch helped me a lot," Perez said just after arriving at the clubhouse Friday afternoon. "Working from the stretch has got my mechanics and my release point more consistent."
Imagine what his numbers would’ve looked like if he were still throwing with a full windup. He’s a work in progress, let’s just hope Dunc continues his magic touch.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Feb 19, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions
pineiro 08
.869 ops allowed to non-pitchers.
AL MVP pedroia, .869 ops produced in 08.
Would that make Pinata the LVP?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 19, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
cotillion, huh?
had to look that one up. Is that a STL high school thing?
In regards to perez’s release point. it’s worth noting that the bb/9 fell along with the h/9. so his control was better in addtion to being hit less hard (~4 fewer runners per nine in total)
I dunno about that....
Take a look at those numbers again. When Perez’ release point differential is over 3 inches, his numbers are also really good—at least in terms of ERA.
The time he was ineffective was specifically when the differential was exactly 2 to 3 inches. I just don’t know if there’s any meaning there.
If you look at the post on BTB...
You’ll see that his release point differential is over three inches more often when he’s facing RH hitters, so he already has a slight advantage over those guys.
Also, as chuckb pointed out, it’s hard to hit a ball when you don’t know where it’s coming from. Obviously the more pitches a hitter sees, the more he’ll pick up that the arm angle drops when a slider is coming, enabling him to sit dead red on the fastball and hammer it, while hammering any hung slider as well.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Yep
I was going to say the same thing.
Look at the differential when he first came up. It was huge but he was still effective.
Maybe you could argue that that was due to the freshness factor; that hitters had to learn to read him and once they did they started to hit him. However, his worst outings were when his differential had been cut in half. It’s not like his differential held steady, he started getting shelled, and then his differential (and his ERA) started to drop.
I think there’s something else going on.
it's still
5 ER in 11.2 IP if you look at 3+ inches away from the release point. that’s an ERA over 4.00
and a tiny sample size
still, this is really neat stuff to think about, even if we’re not all in agreement over the conclusions that can be reached using it. Thanks for compiling the data…
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
I saw that also...It is a small sample size but he seems to be having problems between 2 and 5 inches.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
Good stuff chuck
I also thought it was interesting that he throws more from the 3/4 arm slot to left handed hitters, which, one would think, would make it easier for those hitters to pick up the ball. Seems like he should be throwing from that arm slot to everyone since that’s generally where he throws his slider from.
What Pavlidis didn’t really show us is whether there’s a difference in velocity between the overhand fastball he throws to righties and the 3/4 fastball he throws to lefties. I’d be interested to see if there’s any difference in velocity and whether that velocity is offset by better overall movement. Perez might actually be a more effective pitcher throwing 93-94 from 3/4 with good movement than throwing 96-97 from over the top with less movement, especially considering that the arm slot would be the same as his slider.
If he could run a two seam fastball in on righties while throwing the slider low and away I would think he’d be very effective at getting K’s and weak ground balls to the right side. He could also run the ball in on lefties and use the backdoor slider on the outside portion of the plate to get guys out.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I thought candy fell out when Pinatas were hurt
I understand him wanting to pitch for his country and all, but it doesn’t seem like he got assurances from ANYONE that he’d be a guaranteed starter. Granted, he probably could have done well enough as a starter against teams like Netherlands or Australia, but against lineups like the US, Dom Rep, and probably even Japan, he’d be crushed. US and Dom Rep are like all-star lineups.
Besides, it’s hard for me to feel sympathetic for a guy who successfully turned a slightly above-average 64 innings in 2007 into a 2 year/$13 million deal.
Hold up a second
Ran the release point data through Minitab in a simple regression:
S = 0.704765 R-Sq = 0.7% R-Sq(adj) = 0.0%
Those are pretty bad numbers. As in, really bad. Inches release isn’t really a good predictor for the number of earned runs allowed for this data. Even looking at the chart, I don’t see a lot of correlation there. I think it depends more on where you make your arbitrary cutoff point to show where he is effective – and as you state, the sample size is ludicrously small. My hunch would be more that it other factors effecting his runs allowed instead of release point.
ok, how about
14 of his 22 BB for the season came in innings where he allowed an ER.
or his splits vs lhb’s? .458 slga / 805 ops, 12 BB in 72 PA?
his career minors 40/59 BB/K vs lhb’s, suggest he needs help vs lhp’s in the 9th?
we could all live with a 32/86 vs rhb’s, i’d bet.
not to be talking him down, because i’m behind him, but i also don’t like to see multiple relievers in the 9th.
perez have a splits issue?
by ball in play on Feb 19, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Release point
I agree wholeheartedly re: Piniero. He should just count his blessings and move on.
Re: the release point…I’m not sure how much 2-3 inches make and whether or not that is detectable in a throwing motion. I believe it absolutely is when moving from a 3/4 to over the top but 2-3 inches is a really small difference when trying to detect it in motion. I’m in the “there’s something else going on” camp on this one.
there's always
something else going on. I’m sure there is. We don’t know, from this, the quality of the hitters he faced, the amount of rest he got between outings, the righty/lefty splits he faced in the outings, etc. Other things affected his numbers and I don’t suggest that all of the differences resulted from different release points. However, it’s reasonable to surmise that an erratic delivery can lead to erratic results. What we see is that he was worse when he was more erratic than when he was less erratic. Is it significant? We don’t know. We know it’s not the only factor involved, of course, but it’s reasonable to believe, given the results, that it had some kind of an impact last year and that it will again this year if it’s not corrected. It’s the reason Duncan’s working w/ him on it.
I agree
with everything you’ve said. I misunderstood your premise relating to the differences being attributed to his release point. From the discussion above, I didn’t take into account the differences in shoulder angles and such prior to the pitch which could explain why I sucked as a hitter! I’m thinking of it from the perspective of Perez being in the set position the arm coming around as he throws and the very short amount of time to recognize the pitch. There are always tips especially the way the ball comes out of the hand and so forth. Perhaps the difference here is that the shoulder is processed much more easily. The time it takes to process the arm slot or the way the pitch comes out of the hand is much shorter and makes it more difficult.
Having the same release point
no matter what pitch you’re throwing has two beneficial effects for the pitcher:
1) It keeps you from “tipping” pitches (“Three-quarter! Here comes the slider!”), and
2) It helps the pitcher develop a “repeatable” delivery, which improves control and consistency.
There are exceptions (Luis Tiant, anyone?), but throwing all your pitches from the same release point is a good idea for almost every pitcher.
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
Agreed
I bet he can get better movement on the slider by dropping down, and that’s why he does it.
Tiant would be one
Orlando Hernandez would be another. He would throw from 5 or 6 different release points during games, which is why he was able to fool so many hitters with a sub-par fastball and average breaking stuff.
I agree with your overall point though — but I’d be interested in what Harry comes up with on the velocity/movement issue that I mentioned in my comment above before we decide where his best arm slot is.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I think you've got it backwards.
The release point begins to match after the delivery becomes repeatable.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
Threadjack
I’m only going to believe he’s back when he is actually back, but it’s still postitive to see optimism from guys like LaRue and Wainwright who actually work with him.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
Color me optimistic as well
I think he’s fully recovered from Tommy John, I’m more worried about the pain issues that he’s had in the past and whether those are going to jump up and bite him again at some point. I’d be happy with 100 innings from him — anything more than that is absolute gravy.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
very informative post Chuck
had no idea that Perez was that obvious with his pitches. do you guys have that maple street thing available in .pdf form?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions
chuck, maybe our problem with Gordo's pronouncements is that we just don't speak
his language. Gordo on Ankiel:
Rick Ankiel has unlimited offensive potential and fabulous right-field defensive skills.
That’s right, rick’s offensive potential is unlimited. He may just hit three million home runs this year.
So I think we just need to recalibrate our language to gordo’s terms — “unlimited potential” = pretty good; “vast potential” = replacement level.
So, if rick’s offensive potential is unlimited, what is albert’s potential?
alberts potential is probably unlimted to the 4th power squared
Alberts potential=(Unlimited4)2
Chuck Norris hit a Home Run
with his beard
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 19, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
:D
does this make anyone else smile REALLY big???
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
I'm all over the place right now.
nevermind, it is in fact Ryan. i guess he really did bulk up a bit.
I thought that was Lil' Dunc too at first
but realized he would be towering over them…Ryan does look very big
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
Photo #51
Who is the guy who has to hold his straw hat on? Brian Barton, of course! Guess we can go ahead and start the under/over on how many times Barton loses his hat/ helmet this spring.
barton looks pretty pumped up, too
and poor skippy looks so scrappy…
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
Perez's hair
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 19, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
He will
definitely get some sweat curls working this summer in the STL heat and humidity!
Perez looks like
The offspring of Jay and Silent Bob in that picture.
For reference: link
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
i swear he is Bernies son
Dont take me seriously :-D
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Feb 19, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Wallace looks like he trimmed down quite a bit
maybe he will be our 3B this year, heh
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wallace looks leaner
And Rasmus looks bigger than when I last saw him in Spfld. I’ve read he, Luddy, and Ryan had all been bulking up over the offseason. You can definitely tell the difference w/ Raz and Brendan.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 19, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
he's still got the thighs of a running back though
that’s probably why people thought he was fat, when it was really mostly muscle.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
My quads look about the same size as his
I have always had massive tree trunks for thighs
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 19, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
same here
I once overheard a conversation on the train, since I have good ears, one person was saying that guys legs look really fat, and the other guy was no, that’s just a lot of muscle. I wish I woulda stuck with football
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
pic#26
cracked me up… pinata being eaten alive by a Pujols line drive
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
It was as though Pujols was trying to remove him from the roster himself
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 19, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
isn't that one of his incentives
hit JOE-L with line drive in spring training $100,000
Chuck Norris hit a Home Run
with his beard
by bearcatcardfan on Feb 19, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
if it's not, it should be
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
urg. i hate to be a downer, but i have trouble with the notion
that guys getting hit w/ line drives = funny.
Sorry.
as long as they aren't seriously injured
I chuckle, but I’ve also been hit with my fair share of line drives, including one off the throat.
not funny
in real life, funny in comedy world
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True
Not funny if he had really been hit, just funny seeing him nearly hit the deck.
It would be funnier if the baseball was a pie
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
or if the baseball was on fire.
some how that just doesn’t fit with the pineiro aspect of the joke, though.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
it would be a good mediphore
for something
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2009 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
'twas off the bat of albert pujols
viva el fuego…
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
I didn't realize just how tall Barton is
until now
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
His bio
says 6’3", same as Albert and Luddy.
I just figured he'd be shorter than Luddy
but he looks like he might even be a smidgen taller than Ludwick
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
He is listed at 6'4" on his mlb.com player page
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 20, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
that explains it!
dude is a giant
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
He's actually about 5'2"
It’s just his advanced understanding of the laws of physics that allow him to levitate and get measured at 6’3". Occasionally he chooses to be his normal height and that’s probably why you thought he was shorter.
this photo gave me pause
Raz’s hands are backwards? and he’s hitting right-handed? what strange ST drill is this? or is the photo mirrored?
then i figured it out.
I think it was his swing follow-through
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Feb 19, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Conversation
Colby: Don’t worry about it. No matter what we do, we’re rooming in Memphis.
Brett: But I bought him a bottle of wine!
Colby: I tried that last year. Boy, did that not work out so well. It all started one night….
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 19, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
oh, my...
you are awful ;) Rec’d.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
ditto
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Man
does Wallace have a babyface, or what. Sorta looks like a bulked-up Shia LaBeouf.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 20, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
THREAD JACK 2
Francis’ season over before it started
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090219&content_id=3849784&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
sorry if its old news just saw it myself
Bruce Seldon > Ali
Pineiro should not be in the WBC as a reliever regardless
I am just throwing this assumption out there but wouldn’t Pineiro pitching in the WBC as a reliever completely mess up his training anyways as a starter? I don’t think it is a good idea for a starting pitchers to be be a reliever for a few weeks. But maybe that what he really was upset for because it was a foreshadowing of the future. If he played in the WBC as a reliever he might come back to the Cardinals and stay that way?
Stat Whore
my opinion
is that they need to do the WBC at a different time of year.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
But they really can't
When else would be a good time?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 19, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't want my pitchers to take time off in October or be forced to pitch more IP
It just seems like an injury risk to me
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 19, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
how about
ban MLB players from it
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 19, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
of 4021
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Well all three of the pitchers Oquendo chose instead of Piniero are all better than him so I don't see how he feels slighted.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
Before and after his call up
I arranged the data by date to see if their was any difference in arm slot before and after he got sent down in July.
First time up: 2.78
2nd Time up: 2.65
Stat Whore
I especially liked the segment about stuff to do in florida
where they were making fun of dudes wearing argyle stuff, glad I wasn’t the only one that thought that looks really dumb.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
also learned about Jason Larue's utter hatred
of varmints
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
anytime
someone says “varmints”, i’m immediately unsure whether or not i want to be anywhere near them.
especially when the varmints are
cougars and bobcats. aren’t bobcats endangered?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 23, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
the most interesting twit yet
The relievers who are being conditioned as starters: McClellan, Thompson and (drum roll) Franklin. Anyone have a guess why Franklin?
Hmm. The plot thickens. Goold is always good for a teaser.
doesn't Franklin's contract
have incentives that can only be reached starting?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
i think you're right. is the club then obligated to "offer" him the chance to start,
so that if he claimed they weren’t offering him the chance to reach those incentives, they could say, well, we tested you out in spring training, and you didn’t look like bob gibson, so you stayed in the bullpen? that’s why? to defeat any later claims franklin might have?
He has to pitch at start at least 20 game and god forbid that actually happens
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 19, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think I would rather Franklin start 20 than Piniero
I don’t always have the most faith in Franklin out on the mound, but he seems to have more fire in his belly, and I can’t recall him complaining about being in the bullpen. If Piniero thinks he is one of the 3 best pitchers in all of PR, I wouldn’t be surprised if he thought he was one of the best 5 in the St. Louis clubhouse.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
He used to start
Wasn’t he one of the Mariners starting 5 that was the last rotation to not miss a start the entire year???
Sweet Moses
Pineiro and Franklin in the same rotation.
We really should just forfeit every 5th day.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 19, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Pineiro would probably have to do even worse than last season
but then again, he’s the new scapegoat for Larussa probably, so maybe you have a point. I think Boggs might be a starter before McClellan, or is that vice versa?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
kind of depends on where the chips fall.
if somebody is not ready to go out of ST, kmac probably gets it, b/c boggs has a shoulder injury.
if we leave ST with the predicted five and somebody flops in May, kmac will probably be in full bullpen mode, whereas boggs (if healthy) will be set to go as a starter from memphis.
whoops
forgot about the boggs injury…
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 20, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Scene: Jo-el Piniero and Dave Duncan in Jupiter, FL
Jo-el: Jo-el is my name. I the best starting pitcher on my island, except I’m not on my island, of course. More’s the pity.
Duncan: “Your island”? You mean Puerto Rico?
Jo-el: Yeah. It’s mine.
Duncan: You’re a madman.
Jo-el: I’ve come to the right place, then.
by liam on Feb 19, 2009 10:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Reference to
my favorite movie of all time! You get a rec sir!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Feb 20, 2009 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
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