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A run scored vs. a run saved

There's been some discussion of late about the often repeated wisdom that "a run saved is equal to a run earned." For just about any reasonable decision-making process, I think that's a pretty safe rule to follow. Pedantic jerk that I am, however, I did a small amount of work to show how a simple and commonly used model (pythagorean win expectation) doesn't actually subscribe to the "run saved = run scored" statement. Before going any further, I want to point out that the results I show here rely on a trust in pythagorean expectation that is entirely unreasonable given the likely (in)accuracy of pythagorean expectation. But why would I let that stop me?

Pythagorean expectation is a simple way to predict a team's winning percentage as a function of runs scored and allowed. There are plenty of places to read about it, but wikipedia is probably good enough if you've never heard about it before. The resultant equation is very simple:

winning percentage = 1/(1+(RA/RS)^2)

where RA is the number of runs allowed and RS is the number of runs scored. The top left heatmap in the image shows the expected number of wins as a function of any reasonably achievable pair of runs scored and runs allowed. Hopefully the results of that plot aren't surprising: if you score the same number of runs as you allow, you have an expectation of winning 81 games (white); as you score more runs than you allow, you win more than 81 games (red) and vice versa if you are outscored (blue).

Pythag_600_medium

The rest of the plots show the results of a very simple experiment. Lets say that we are comparing the impact of upgrading the team by 10 runs. For simplicity's sake, let's pretend it's the AL and I'm deciding between upgrading a pitcher (and reducing my runs allowed by 10) or upgrading at DH (and increasing my runs scored by 10). The top right and lower left plots show the expected change in number of wins for these two options.

As you probably know, 10 runs generally means about 1 more win over the course of the season (white in both plots). For middle of the road teams that score and allow around 800 runs, the 10 runs = 1 win rule holds up pretty well. For teams that score a lot of runs already, adding an extra 10 runs on offense doesn't help as much (blue region of top right plot). Conversely, for teams that already allow fewer runs than is typical, saving 10 more runs is actually worth more than a win (red region of the bottom left plot).

The main point of this exercise is summarized in the bottom right plot. Here I've plotted the difference in wins added if you score 10 more runs rather than allowing 10 fewer. As you can see, for teams that score about the same as they allow, it doesn't really matter where you add the extra runs (white region on the diagonal). For good teams, however (ones that score more than they allow), a run saved is actually more valuable than a run scored (blue region). In contrast, for bad teams, a run saved is less valuable. To reiterate, pythagorean expectation probably isn't accurate enough for these results to be meaningful when making real roster decisions, but if you trust it completely, good teams should get more bang for their buck by adding pitchers and defensive wizards whereas bad teams should be targeting hitters (assuming all else is equal).

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I realized once again, that I am REALLY lost with math...

Being the one that said in the Penny post “Run saved is Run Earned” I should qualify..while I think intuitively it makes sense…meaning that if you start out 0-0 and save a run…that means it stays at 0-0 and you are no worse off…so it takes away the need to score a run. However, if you go for a team that is perfect defense.. never giving up a run…but is horrid on offense..
.(like my Batting Avg. in little league .000— OT: I played little league for as many years as possible before traveling teams and never hit, but I did score the winning run in our town championship by not moving out of the way when the pitcher threw a really high inside fastball to my helmet..bases were loaded sucker)….
…you would never score and thus you could only ever play one game a season. So, really a run saved does not equal a run scored because a run scored does not equal a run saved. Now once you scored one run, then afterwards a Run Scored = a Run Saved.

by ADMDrayson on Dec 9, 2009 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

very nice

is this in any way related to my throwaway comment about this in a discussion with fourstick the other day (saying that, especially at the extremes of either continuum, a run saved does not necessarily exactly = one scored), or is that just a coincidence?

I’ll have a think about this post anyway. It’s definitely interesting.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 9, 2009 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

ya, that subthread was the impetus

though it’s something I’ve been meaning to do for a while

by brackenthebox on Dec 9, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

This is kind of opposite answer I was expecting

But since it is based upon Pythagorean expectation that doesn’t really surprise me. Regardless good work.

When I think of a run saved I generally think of defense more than pitching. I have been trying to figure out how much additional upgrades on defense affect the winning percentage. Lets say a team is already a plus defensive team like the Mariners. How much advantage do they gain by adding another plus defender? Does it matter what position it is? Infield or outfield? On the same note does a plus defensive team lose more when a weak link defender is added to the mix? Do they lose more or less than an average team?

I view defense more on a team wide and work backwards on players. I understand how zone ratings work but I also believe the players around you affect your defensive levels.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 9, 2009 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

certainly, that is true in the infield

since so much of infield defense is coordinating movements and throws. I’m not sure if this is true in the outfield, other than perhaps having a good defender having to spell a poor defender.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Dec 9, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

also

makes a difference when during the game the run is scored because it affects strategy, including how long you leave a given pitcher in the game, etc.

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Dec 9, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent work Bracken

Can you plug in PytagenPat and see what the plots look like?

W% = R^x/(R^x + RA^x)

x = (RPG)^.287

by vivaelpujols on Dec 9, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions  

well, I ran it, but something seems off

10 runs seems to be worth well less than a win in most cases. I’m assuming RPG=R/162? Either way, the result is posted below. The difference plot looks pretty much the same, though a little shallower.

by brackenthebox on Dec 9, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I have never believed the 10 runs is a Win thing

It reeks of BS to me. Should be league adjusted for one thing. But since everyone else does it I just go with the flow. I have believed in something in something closer to AvgLgRuns times 2.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 9, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

10 runs is usally close to win

In lower run environments, it’s fewer runs per win and in higher run environments it’s more runs per win, but it’s usually close to 10.

by vivaelpujols on Dec 9, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's the thing

You don’t need to believe it. It’s a scalar. Provided that you accept two things — 1) the run calculation aspect is correct and 2) the run to dollar conversion is accurate — then you can throw out the “win” portion of this equation and go straight from runs to dollars. You can even say that player X is Y amount better than player Z.

It makes for a nice sounding result, but the 10 run conversion is required to have statistical comparisons of players.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 9, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

is = isn't

in the last line. I knew negativity was important despite what my mom said.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 9, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

cool mom

mine yells nothing but negative stuff

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 10, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

ah, that makes more sense

fixed it above and it looks more reasonable.

My ignorance of existing baseball analysis is starting to show.

by brackenthebox on Dec 10, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Phinal Pythag Phantasy Phour was my favorite...

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Alright, I fixed this with the correct formula

if you’ve viewed the page before, you may need to reload to get the new image

by brackenthebox on Dec 10, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

this is really good stuff, bracken.

You should fanshot a link to this on btb.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 9, 2009 4:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

How did they get the 10 run = a win?

Is it the avg. runs scored per win? that seems pretty high to be that.

by ADMDrayson on Dec 9, 2009 5:56 PM EST reply actions  

my theory

last season, the average runs scored/runs allowed for the entire season was 747.3. the difference between the two being 1494.6 runs

1494.6/162=9.2

so last season, on average, the differential between the winning teams run scored and the losing teams runs allowed (same number when looking at a specific game, obv) was 9.2 runs

close enough to 10.

no idea if i’m anywhere close on this and this is the first time i’ve actually taken the time calculate the averages. if there were an easier way, i’d do more than the ’09 season to confirm

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 9, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I can calculate them historically for you

But I don’t understand what this means.

“last season, the average runs scored/runs allowed for the entire season was 747.3. the difference between the two being 1494.6 runs”

by vivaelpujols on Dec 9, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

in '09

the team X, which is an average team, gave up 747.3 runs and also allowed 747.3 runs. so, if you think of runs allowed as negative runs, the difference between runs allowed and runs scored, for the average team is 1494.6 runs over the course of the season. divide that by 162 (number of games in a season, obv) and that tells you average difference of runs in an average game. which is 9.2

maybe i am retarded, i dunno. just kinda how i assumed they came up with 10 runs per win. not that it matters, for the reasons robot said above and because, you’re just trying to compare two players based on homogeneous offensive output.

and you don’t need to bother with figuring out average runs scored per season.

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 9, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

well

i’m lost if the average difference of runs in an average game is 9.2, although likely i just don’t understand the lingo.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 10, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

He's just working it oddly.

Mathematically:

RS+RA

is identical to:

RS-(-RA)

But yes, in Pythagenpat the RPG figure applies to runs both on offense and on defense. As for where 10 runs per win comes from – from 1993 to 2009, the league averaged 9.60 RPG. You figure that RPG is roughly equal to RPW, and there you go.

by cwyers on Dec 10, 2009 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

why does RPG = RPW?

sorry i’m pretty dense, but like with prophetjohn above, i read “the average difference of runs in an average game is 9.2” to mean that the winner outscores the loser by an average of 9.2 runs per game.

then i read RPG = 9.6 and think of that as a combined score.

beyond that i can understand that if 10 is the average combined score, then an additional 10 runs is basically a guaranteed win, which is why that number is used in the pythagorean. on the surface, it would seem that perhaps adding a tad under ten runs on offense is a win, but ten is certainly a safe bet.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 10, 2009 1:59 AM EST up reply actions  

muddled that a bit

dismiss the subject line, or tell me if my last paragraph answers it correctly, please.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 10, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions  

1999-2008

R vs W:
trendline W=.0873R+13.07
R-squared 0.35

RA vs W:
trendline -0.093RA+153.35
R-squared 0.45

Throwing some numbers at the equations would suggest that each 11.5 runs on offense adds a win and each 10.8 runs saved on defense saves a win.

Also did run differential vs wins and pyth vs wins and the two had nearly identical R-squareds. Might it just be simpler to do 81+ RunDiff/10?

For the 300 teams from 1999-2008, Pythag was closer 53% of the time. Not a huge difference….

Looks like the benefit comes in at the extremes; between 65 and 99 wins both are off wins by nearly the exact same amount 3.09 vs 3.07 favoring run differential. The average error was 3.61 vs 4.11 for the rest of the teams…

by erosen on Dec 10, 2009 11:10 AM EST reply actions  

Nice work

Doesn’t matter too much to me if the pythag expectation is correct…your analysis is useful for illustrating that the values certainly can change under some mathematical relationships. This could be continued as a sensitivity analysis applied to the range if uncertainty in the Pythag model, or just to other models. Bottom line, it is nicely done.

by siddfynch on Dec 13, 2009 1:36 PM EST reply actions  

Reinventing the wheel here

Nice work and all, but this is pretty common knowledge.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Dec 16, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions  

PERFECT EXAMPLE

run saved vs run earned in regards to defense…JOE CREDE. yes bad back thats why we have freese and 3rd party to platoon. For run earned we have JERMAINE DYE. maybe just me getting over my man crush from when he was on the athletics, but man that guy is a f*ing athlete. bottom line run saved:Joe Crede run earned:Jermaine Dye

ask holliday about runs saved, or franklin for that matter. Why is everyone still comfortable with him closing games in the playoffs??

Jermaine Dye fan since KC. He's STILLLLLLLLLL GOT IT!!! now lets get him...and a real closer (named rafael soriano). Thats all, thats all I want.

by Yadi on Dec 17, 2009 12:12 AM EST reply actions  

statistical significance

This is just from my high school stats class, but all these stats are so overwhelming and the numbers are not that different. I doubt much of them qualify as statistically significant. I know this fanpost is much simpler, more of an in general rant to how this site has turned into a bunch of perif statheads.

Jermaine Dye fan since KC. He's STILLLLLLLLLL GOT IT!!! now lets get him...and a real closer (named rafael soriano). Thats all, thats all I want.

by Yadi on Dec 17, 2009 12:15 AM EST reply actions  

This site has always been comprised of a bunch of statheads.

But it’s always fun hearing how it’s too stats-oriented, not stat-oriented enough, too meme-oriented, not funny enough, too literary, not literary enough. And sometimes, those complaints happen all on the same day!

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 17, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I don't know this person. just for the record.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

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