Cardinals to Sign Brad Penny
by prophetjohn on Dec 7, 2009 8:30 PM EST
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I, for one, welcome our new fireballing overlords.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Dec 7, 2009 8:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Penny signed for a lot of money.
$6.5MM guaranteed? I think the upside is huge here, but why not guarantee $4MM and give like $5MM or $6MM in potential incentives? I mean health is a huge concern here. Hopefully this isn’t another Lohse signing.
NorCal CARDS FAN
what are you talking about?
The original Lohse deal was an amazing, no-loss deal. The second Lohse deal was too long.
This is a ONE YEAR CONTRACT!!!!
I get the feeling you’re comparing this deal to the 2nd Lohse contract which makes no sense. And to be completely honest, I hope this is exactly like the Lohse signing. The first one.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Seven and a Half over One Year...
is"too much"??????
Whatever dude.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
he had $7.5MM stuff last year?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i mean, i hope he gets the full 9
but if he gets hurt or he’s ineffective, then we lost some cash. probably could have gotten him for less base with incentives still totaling 9
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I don't know
but I’m sure someone can tell me exactly how much he was worth (he did in San Francisco, btw). Then again, pitching is expensive. Especially starting pitching.
7.5M for a starting pitcher who can throw gas is not that much. Plus, it’s a one year deal.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
according to fangraph's war
he was worth over $11MM
but i don’t really use that as an indicator of what kind of salary a guy should offered.
it’s not an awful signing, i just think we could have gotten him with less guaranteed
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
just curious (and truly, not trying to sound like an asshole) but
i just think we could have gotten him with less guaranteed.
what makes you say this? what information are you privy to that makes you think this? basic economics would tell you that we could NOT have gotten Penny with less guaranteed. I’m always baffled by comments like this – and yet they’re very common – so i am wondering what the basis is.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 7, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
his awful showing the last two seasons
if his name were not brad penny, and he were some unknown who had compiled the same stats as penny during ’08 and ’09, it would be absurd to consider offering $7.5
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
sounds like the giants were bidding
they thought he was worth almost that, and they sure got a good look at him last year. i doubt it was just his last game (complete game).
i think if they bid till the end as reported it is a bit reassuring. of course i’m always most optimistic after the fact…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If he were some unknown who had compiled the same stats in '08 and '09
Then he wouldn’t have the upside of his ‘06 and ’07. I don’t see your point. He’s a high risk/high reward player on a one year deal.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
i agree!
i was just expecting him to go for more like 6MM base
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
ok
i was just expecting him to go for more like 6MM base
Expecting Penny to get less or hoping that the Cards could have gotten Penny for a lower guaranteed base is much different than saying you think we could have gotten him with less guaranteed. One says – “gee, it would have been nice to get Penny more cheaply” and the other says “Mo sucks at his job because he could have gotten Penny more cheaply.”
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
no, that's actually not what i was saying at all
what i was saying is “gee, i think we could have gotten penny for less guaranteed”
trust me, i will argue with you for as long as you want about something that neither of us can prove
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
huh?
I already got what I was looking for, i.e., i was wondering if you had any basis for your statement “i just think we could have gotten him with less guaranteed.” turns out you didn’t, it was just standard internet musing, which is fine. I’ll now be on my way…
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
nah, not really
just impressions and assumptions
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
he were some unknown who had compiled the same stats as penny during ’08 and ’09
What about if he were some unknown who’d compiled Penny’s 08 and 09 stats, but was one of the best starters in the national league from 2001 to 2007, and who was only 31?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 8, 2009 5:14 AM EST up reply actions
ah, inherent contradictions
you clever dog, you
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
hehe.
All I’m saying is, he’s not an unknown. He’s got a track record and, truncated 2008 aside, it’s actually pretty damn good. Even if he does what he did in 2009, in Busch, it’s still gonna be a decent season, and I guess we’re banking on his GB% returning to normality under Duncan.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 8, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
maybe i'm just a tight ass
i still keep my pouch of gold around my neck
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I wonder why...
they couldn’t get it done with Smoltz. Or maybe they just liked Penny better…
MB for LF in 2010!
Smoltz pitched 78 innings in 2009.
Penny pitched more than double that and received the same salary. Smoltz could be looking for 7M as well, and hes a decade and change older than penny.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Okay?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
He just won't...
No one is going to give the guy $7.5 million guaranteed in his age 42 season with the recent surgery and ineffectiveness. Smoltz comes cheaper and is probably no more of a health risk than Penny.
I’ll bet you five internet dollars Smoltz makes a couple mllion less than Penny in 2009 and pitches more innings.
MB for LF in 2010!
Deal.
If Smoltz pitches more innings than Penny in 2009, it will be because Penny gets into a freak accident early enough in the season that Smoltz’s 50-100 innings holds up.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
aside from 2008 and his rookie year
he’s never made fewer than 24 starts in a year. i think that is a silly bet. not the salary part, but smoltz pitching more innings
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Penny pitched 173 innings last year
more than Santana, Big Z, Harden. Smoltz was signed for $5.5 M last year with Boston knowing he wouldn’t be available for the first third of the season, so I don’t think he’ll be looking to take a paycut. He’ll have similar incentives as Penny based on either being a starter or closer. I’ll take Penny in that bet. You are responsible for remembering though.
Penny might be the safer bet..
but I got a bad feeling about him. Overpaid, overweight, overrated… He can throw 96, but strikes out fewer than Kyle Lohse because his fastball is straight and he can’t get a breaking pitch over the plate.
MB for LF in 2010!
Brad Penny or Joel Pineiro?
I think they’re both 3-4 WAR pitchers, and only one of them just got signed for $7.5M.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
There's less...
injury risk with Pineiro, but he’ll likely be overpaid. The direct substitutes for Penny, in my mind, are Harden, Sheets, Smoltz, etc… not someone like Pineiro.
MB for LF in 2010!
who's to say they won't sign Smoltz too?
does John really want to play on the Nationals?
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 8, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
only if he has some fetish
or baseball bucket-list that involves/includes pitching to pudge.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
They may still pick Smoltz up
Depending on how Holliday works out, we may just be stockpiling arms for this year.
I wanted penny two years ago
don’t mind him now…hope he he gives us 180 innings and doesn’t have a FIP over 4.25
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
as i said in the first main thread today
i am pro this move, but only if he’s 100% healthy. if there’s one bad thing on his tests tomorrow i don’t want him or i want him for like $1Mil. they could have spent upwards of $10Mil per on a lesser talent, so i think this is a good move.
and i still want Smoltzy back, whether he closes or not.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
mlb.com video link
link to numerous videos on Penny from mlb.com. Nice one minute video on his complete game against Arizona in his last start.
He wanted a multi-year deal...
It’s better this way in my eyes than spending more on him over a longer period of time and it being a bust.
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
Penny's 2009 contract including incentives = $9M
per cot’s contracts: Base – $5M, performance bonuses: $0.5M each for 160, 170, 180, 190 IP, $1M for 200 IP. He earned $6M based on 173 IP
if our rotation next year is
Carp
Waino
Penny
Lohse
Smoltz/Garcia/Boggs
we are pretty much considered one of the best teams in the NL, even if we don’t re-sign Holliday. tons of upside if Penny and Lohse pitch like they are capable of. and it will soften the blow if we go with a rookie 5th starter and they don’t pan out. I really like this move, it gives the team more stability and possible leverage if there is tight bidding for contracts on other position players.
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 8, 2009 1:38 AM EST reply actions
I don't think it's enough without offense
bench and the 7 dwarves.
If the Brewers are even halfway decent and/or have nobodies who can beat the Cards, they’ll be untucking all over our asses.
And the Phillies are not aging fast enough for my liking.
Besides… even without invoking the GOB, we were considered the favorite not. so. long ago.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
untuckers taking wolf?
wonder what all they have in mind to do with that cash cc left them holding.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
moar el douchey sausage probably
Well let me tell you something now, sonny. Last Thursday, I turned 95 years old. And I never exercised a day in my life. Every morning, I wake up, and I smoke a cigarette. And then I eat five strips of bacon. And for lunch, I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. Now according to all of them flat-belly experts, I should've took a dirt nap like thirty years ago. But each year comes and goes, and I'm still here. Ha! And they keep dyin'. You know? Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
They spent a fat wad of it on Hoffman the last two years
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 8, 2009 5:16 AM EST up reply actions
To be honest with you....
I want to see Garcia be the #5. Smoltz is gonna cost far too much for what we can actually expect out of him. Boggs needs to move to the bullpen and take Puppy Kicker’s spot of long man. You can’t forget about Gawwstab as well. I don’t see us picking up any more pitching, maybe one reliever (what with the signings of Miller and Franklin).
And I agree with the poster above, our biggest concern is the offense. And we have yet to even do anything.
Bird is the word.
Smoltz now officially makes a lot more sense out of the bullpen
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I love Smoltz
but for the same price (or a tiny bit more) we could probably have Rafael Soriano. I just think he’s gonna be better out of the pen, somehow.
But I just can’t resist Smoltz anyway.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 8, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
I would prefer Smoltz + Garcia
Why not rotate them between starting and relief? They’re both coming off major injuries, and I’d rather squeeze out innings anyway from number five slot.
And we’re going to look like fools — again — if any of the starters go down and there’s not a guy to step up to fill in. No more puppykicker.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
^ that way, not anyway
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
So, in this universe you describe, Brad Thompson was the lynchpin of the rotation?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
no, in this universe
we run Mitchell Boggs out to start nine games because someone in the rotation is injured.
we also let Todd Wellemeyer start and start and start until he actually runs out of excuses for being Todd Wellemeyer.
We’ve got four injury risks and one (knock on wood, don’t let it be) injury risk to-be. Keeping a couple of extra guys without a huge innings-load is not a bad idea.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
So, do you think Smoltz will be better than Penny?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
that's... not what I said.
what are you talking about? I thought I was talking about this thread…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Correction
They’re one of the best teams in the NL Central, especially if they don’t resign Holliday.
Lohse pitched to his ability last year, 2008 was the aberration. As a Cub fan, I love the Cards’ signing of Penny. They just doubled their probability of a major arm injury crippling their rotation. And even if Carpenter’s arm doesn’t fall off, his career low BABIP of .274 is due for a regression. Then I could mention his minuscule 3.4 HR/FB which was astoundingly below his career mark.
Well, it should be a fun season next year if the Cubs can stay healthy.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 9, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
vernon wells is in perfect health
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Lohse did not pitch to his ability last year
he’s consistently been a 2+ win pitcher his career, and he didn’t put up 1 last year. I suppose his peripherals were almost in line with his career numbers but he also missed a lot of time.
I agree with you about Carpenter, FWIW. I can’t particularly see that Penny is a major injury risk. ; he’s just come off throwing 174 innings with his highest career velocity on his fastball, and, 2008 injury aside, has always been reasonably durable. And he’s only 31.
Even if you INCLUDE his 2008 injury-hit year, Penny averages over 28 starts per season over the last 9 years. I doubt you’ll find too many guys with that record over nearly a decade.
Correction
They’re one of the best teams in the NL Central, especially if they don’t resign Holliday.
Cardinals, on paper, will be one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the NL next year. If we don’t sign Holliday we’ve got about $20m to spend on 3B, LF or pitching, and that’ll improve the team a lot no matter what. Expect to see Beltre, or another decent OF option, plus maybe an arm for the bullpen. Cubs probably will be up in that top 5.
Who in the NLE and NLW is demonstrably better? Phillies and Dodgers I give you. Braves have a great staff but it remains to be seen whether they’ll actually score any runs unless they pick up a bat or two. Giants are in the same boat, only more so. Mets have a ton of holes. I doubt the Rockies get the same sort of production from a pu-pu platter of AAAA arms and Ubaldo Jimenez next year.
Even without ANY more additions, I still think the Cardinals are (on paper) among the top 5 or so in the NL. Until we say what (if anything) the Mets, Giants and Braves are going to add, there’s not a lot of quality in the NL this year, even more so than usual.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm
Depends on what you mean by demonstrably better. Every team with the possible exception of the Phillies have holes in their lineups and/or rotation. All those teams you mention could be better or worse when it’s all said and done. You could even make arguments for Milwaukee or Houston as well. If you could only send Oswalt & Wandy to the Brewers, you’d really have something. :)
As for Lohse, he actually improved on some of his numbers last year. Strikeouts were up slightly and LD% had a big drop and looks like the only outlier good or bad. It was probably a good thing he missed a dozen starts the way he was pitching last year. :) I truly don’t think he has another 3 WAR season in him. With his low K rate, he has a slim margin of error so he’ll need some luck to reach averageness IMO.
After Beltre, the cupboard is really thin at 3B unless you think you can rehab Atkins’ or Crede’s career. Bay is your best option in LF though Gomes could be a cheap guy to plug out there too. Nady, Kearns, Cameron & Dye are the best of the rest to me. I wouldn’t want to give up a draft pick to pay a declining Damon. You’re right about Penny. His injury plagued year in LA colored my memories of him. Maybe he’ll work out as well as Harden did for the Cubs ….
Anyways, while it’s always fun to speculate who’s the best in December, it doesn’t work out the way you think it will in the end, especially in the NL. As I said, I think the Cubs are right with the Cards and if they get lucky, the Brewers and even Astros could make things even more interesting.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Dec 13, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
damon wasn't offered arb
so no pick comp
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I disagree about Bay
I don’t think he’s the best LF option other than Holliday as he’ll be overpaid.
That said, I can’t find fault in anything else – I think you’re right. It’ll be close again between the Cards, Cubs and (perhaps less so) Brewers. I’m not sure I see the Astros as a factor – they’re trying to tread water in a river that’s quickly flowing in the opposite direction of contention.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 13, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
The danger is...
Whether this rotation stays healthy. If they all average 25-30 games, these pitchers give us a decent shot at 90-93 wins.
where were you on Sunday?
a cat died because you weren’t here
Well let me tell you something now, sonny. Last Thursday, I turned 95 years old. And I never exercised a day in my life. Every morning, I wake up, and I smoke a cigarette. And then I eat five strips of bacon. And for lunch, I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. Now according to all of them flat-belly experts, I should've took a dirt nap like thirty years ago. But each year comes and goes, and I'm still here. Ha! And they keep dyin'. You know? Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i wish i lived one day of my life like you did on Sunday
what role to you want harden to play next season? closer or starter? i forget because it’s late & i’ve got a killer headache & my f’in insomnia is barking again
Well let me tell you something now, sonny. Last Thursday, I turned 95 years old. And I never exercised a day in my life. Every morning, I wake up, and I smoke a cigarette. And then I eat five strips of bacon. And for lunch, I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. Now according to all of them flat-belly experts, I should've took a dirt nap like thirty years ago. But each year comes and goes, and I'm still here. Ha! And they keep dyin'. You know? Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I can't sleep either
talk dirty to me!
by vivaelpujols on Dec 8, 2009 5:06 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Mo is going to offer this same contract to Rich Harden.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I have to go to work.
Shoot me.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Yep.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Shooting radiation.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Did you get my email a week or so ago?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I forget when I sent it, but that sounds too old.
Anyway, I’m out.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Okay, I'll send you something after I get off today.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
other than that
what do you think of the penny signing, unless you’re likely saving that for a long sunday…err, strike that.
i think the harden decision was made before we even debated it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
cool
i didn’t even feel the need to e-mail you a death threat.
do you always provide a link to your extracurricular (as in other-than-VEB) stuff?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
you obviously write for other sites
i enjoy your posts here, and would read your stuff on other sites, but this is the first i’ve read because you made me aware of it by providing the link. i was wondering if you generally do this on VEB. and if not, if you could.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
oh. I really only write for THT now
I’ve fanshotted a few relevant articles here I believe. I assume most people here visit THT daily, or maybe not, so I don’t really feel a need to link.
Haven't read all the comments yet
but can I just say my first impression is that I really, really like this signing. $7.5m looks on the cheap side, given his NL record and relative consistency for the last few years.
Looks like his big problem last year was that his GB rate fell, and FB rate rose, hence, more dingers. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to whether the Cardinals’ coaching staff might have some chance to get that GB total up to its previous level? This just looks like a great fit IMO.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
Pitch f/x has his fastballs a little higher in the zone this year
And faster. The two seam related, as he was likely overthrowing and thus not getting on top of the ball as much. That sounds like a perfect Duncan problem to fix.
Yep, that sounds like a good analysis
Given his K rate (below career average, but not by much, in a better hitters’ league with the DH) and his BB rate (excellent and slightly better than his career rate), plus his excellent velocity last year, I’d say another 5% groundballs and he could be highly effective for us. And, even if his FB rate stays relatively high, moving out of Fenway and into Busch III can’t hurt, can it?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 8, 2009 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
Another "FWIW"
Penny’s fastball velocity in 2009 was the highest of his career (average = 94mph). Good sign IMO.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
Reading the posts on MLB Traderumors.com
You would think we made a horrible deal here with Penny. They are ripping this move pretty hard over there. Of course I bet a lot of them are Red Sox and Giants fans.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
RedSox fans who don't realise that a 4.5 FIP or whatever he did last year is pretty good for a 5th starter you paid $6m for.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 8, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
weird, this RSF acquaintance also thought I should be steamed at it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He was really good for the Giants late in the year
I think he was lucky, but not too lucky, and he averaged almost 7 innings a start in those last 6 starts. What would concern me a bit is the .211 BABIP and the drop in his K/9, but everything else was very, very good. Those are above average numbers for a 4th starter, and that’s what he’ll be on the Cardinals.
I really like this signing. If Lohse comes back and is effective and Garcia/Boggs can round out the rotation with innings above replacement level, we’ll have a very, very good rotation next year.
Now, Mo, get to work on the offense. That’s where this club needs the most help.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
might as well spam this here too
http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/6467223165
no curly fries
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Evil thought of the day
Doubt this is the case, but if the Cardinals overbid a bit on Penny, does this drain money from other teams, who must now pay higher to get their own pitchers? And does that result in fewer dollars available to tempt Holliday onto a Northeast Team?…
Nah, that would be too crazy. Right?
maybe
but it also means we’d have fewer dollars ourselves, so it’s probably not a positive in that case. I doubt Penny would’ve gone for much less if we’d waited a while. It’s a more than fair price IMO.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 13, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
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