Ray Lankford for the Hall of Fame: A Completely Dishonest Proposal
by DanUpBaby on Dec 3, 2009 2:36 AM EST
680 comments
Background
Ray Lankford is my favorite player of all time, and were it not for the unpleasant way in which he first left the Cardinals I would not be blogging about baseball, now or ever. I couldn't find it in the archives, but if you find a run of Rob Neyer's ESPN.com columns circa August, 2001 you'll catch the first time I read those gateway letters O-P-S in sequence. Neyer, maybe the champion sabermetric pied piper of the decade, was using them to defend Ray Lankford, who I'd enjoyed watching for what to this point were completely nebulous reasons. That was the beginning of my baseball education: finding ways to defend my favorite player. If I'd been a Kerry Robinson fan I might, right now, be trolling this very site.
So being a Ray Lankford fan made me a line-toeing internet seamhead. It also made me extremely unscrupulous. To be a Ray Lankford fan was to be constantly, incrementally disappointed—in Lankford, in the Cardinals' handling of him, in the teams' finishes around him. He began his career at the end of Whiteyball and ended it in 2004, watching from off the playoff roster while the Cardinals got killed by my least favorite team ever, the Jimmy Fallon-era Red Sox. As a Ray Lankford fan one must find one's own ways of being satisfied by baseball. These ways might be disingenuous; they might detract from your social enjoyment of the game, as when a casual-fan friend of yours praises the little things that someone who cannot hit is apparently doing and you must, to avoid striking him, leave the room; but they are necessary.
Proposition
Ray Lankford, new to the ballot this year, is a Hall of Famer.
No, no—that isn't it. I will make myself believe Ray Lankford, new to the ballot this year, is a Hall of Famer, using arguments I know intuitively to be false. This is closer.
Fact
Ray Lankford is better than some other people who are Hall of Famers.
It's true! I'll even spot you Candy Cummings and Morgan Bulkeley and any third executive or pioneer whose name sounds that same exotic dancer rhythm; there are actual players, athletes inducted to the Hall of Fame for their athletic prowess, who were not nearly as valuable as Ray Lankford. Highpockets Kelly? I ask you, would you rather have Ray Lankford or Sean Casey? Lloyd Waner? I have to imagine that he was just elected so as to avoid that awkward moment when Paul just walked in and Lloyd had to make a furtive move toward the ticket counter. Jesse Haines? Do the Cardinals even remember that Jesse Haines is in the Hall of Fame?
Ray Lankford's better than lots of these guys; if he'd been elected between Kelly and Haines, in one of those years when people were trying to elect Ken Keltner or Riggs Stephenson or somebody, historians wouldn't bat an eye. His plaque might be hidden behind a souvenir kiosk, but he'd be there, and he would without question not be the worst Hall of Famer.
Corollary
Ray Lankford would not be the worst Cardinal Hall of Famer.
I hate to be that guy, but I've made a list—here are the Cardinals' Hall of Famers by Sean Smith's Wins above Replacement, which are awesome. For our purposes I've culled, from the list, players who didn't spend significant time with the club, except for Dizzy Dean, who didn't spend ten years with anybody, and Bruce Sutter, apparently adopted by the Cardinals. My apologies to Rabbit Maranville.
- 127.9 — Stan Musial
- 127.7 — Rogers Hornsby
- 85.6 — Bob Gibson
- 74.7 — Frankie Frisch
- 70.1 — Johnny Mize
- 64.7 — Ozzie Smith
- 56.0 — Joe Medwick
- 54.1 — Enos Slaughter
- 40.3 — Red Schoendienst
- 39.6 — Dizzy Dean
- 39.1 — Lou Brock
- 38.4 — Ray Lankford
- 33.8 — Jesse Haines
- 32.3 — Jim Bottomley
- 29.4 — Chick Hafey
- 25.0 — Bruce Sutter
Peer Pressure
Look how close he is to Lou Brock! You like Lou Brock, don't you? If you're a peak-oriented Hall of Fame voter there's a case to be made that Ray Lankford, whose five best seasons totaled 25.2 WAR, did more to push his team toward pennants than Lou Brock (23.7.) Lankford played center through his prime, and he did it well; he got on base and hit for power better than Brock did. Brock's career totals are padded by years in which he was no more valuable to his team than Skip Schumaker.
Veiled Threat
Now, I don't want this information to get into the wrong hands, I really don't. It would kill me to see Lou Brock stripped of his red blazer and demoted to Chick Hafey's wing of the Cardinals Hall of Fame, where they keep all the unsold Bobby Bonilla jerseys.
But it could happen. And at that point the only way to protect Lou Brock's Hall of Fame credentials... is to elect Ray Lankford to the Hall of Fame. I'm sure you—I'm sure we'll all make the right decision.
Fact
The Hall of Fame voters are making far dumber mistakes on their own.
They're going to induct Jack Morris pretty soon. They inducted Bruce Sutter, ostensibly because he invented the forkball, and Jim Rice, because sportswriters became convinced, one after the other, that pitchers were terrified of the guy. Ray Lankford is better than Bruce Sutter and could well be better than Jack Morris and Jim Rice.
They don't do an awful job; they don't give some worthy players (Will Clark, Lou Whitaker) the time of day, and they're far too easily persuaded by a player being the best X or having the most Y of time-period Z, but they get most of the easy ones right and have avoided stepping on a few landmines in their day. They're far better than the Frankie Frisch-led Hall electors of the seventies, who would stop at nothing until they made plaques for everybody who briefly considered playing baseball in the thirties. But they don't appear to have a cohesive idea of what the Hall of Fame is and who belongs there; it seems like anybody who is suspected of having symbolized some movement or time period in baseball history is elected without question, to be sorted out later, when some intern has to prune the narratives.
Ray Lankford can be an overrated narrative player for a new generation, one fond of positional adjustments, walks, power from punchless positions, and players who get heckled for striking out too often. He could found a new wing of the Hall of Fame for players whose nicknames involve the letter K, whose fanbase struck out at the team's best player for the failings of its worst members. He already has a Hall of Very Good named after him; I am only proposing that we go one step further.
Conclusion
I just can't do it. As much as it pains me to say it, Ray Lankford, having started late and finished up early, is not really a Hall of Famer. Two tenets of being a Lankford fan are simply and firmly in opposition with this kind of wishcasting—
- Use sabermetrics to remain calm and rational when an inferior is compared favorably to Ray Lankford.
- Expect, as a fan of Ray Lankford, to be pleased on some level but disappointed on another.
It's too bad that Ray Lankford does not quite make a good sleeper candidate for the Hall of Fame; we'll have to wait for Jim Edmonds to really hammer at that point. But I think it's important, and exciting, that he is vindicated even this much by advanced statistics. He's among the best Cardinals ever. When I first read about OPS it was because the fans at Busch Stadium were begging, actually begging, for the likes of Kerry Robinson.
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Boom Pow!
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 3, 2009 3:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Here's a Lankford Boom Pow!!
ST. LOUIS (AP) — Ray Lankford scored from second base on a groundout when he knocked the ball loose from catcher Darren Daulton in a collision at home plate in the 10th inning as St. Louis won.
Lankford drew a one-out walk from Mitch Williams (0-2) and stole second. After Williams intentionally walked Felix Jose, Gerald Perry grounded into a forceout at second, and Lankford kept running. Daulton had the ball in plenty of time on shortstop Dickie Thon’s relay, but couldn’t hold onto the ball when Lankford barreled into him.
The Phillies, who led 5-0 early, lost for the seventh time in eight games.
To this day Darren Daulton still has nightmares about ol’ Ray coming at him!!!
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
pujolsian feat
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Im still convinced that hit made Dutch Daulton what he is today.
A complete freaking weirdo.
He hit it good. He hit it good.
My favorite part of this post:
After Williams intentionally walked Felix Jose
This alone reminds me of why those teams in the mid-90’s were so damn tough to watch…who walks Felix Jose intentionally? Who does that?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Show me
Please SHOW ME the point where Felix Jose was “good”. He was an average player for a club full of mostly below average players. Which made him look like a f’in superstar, lol.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
We live in a world where Jason LaRue gets intentionally walked!
would you be upset if Ludwick was intentionally walked (other than by the fact that intentional walks are almost always dumb)?
I'm still recovering from that.
didn’t they IBB Ankiel too…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
In fairness they forgot to look at the calendar
and listened to nothing but ESPN to tell them how great Hamerin’ Ank was in previous seasons.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
CAGE MATCH
Cubs v. Pirates FOs! Winner gets Rick Ankiel.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
A battle where there are no winners
Much like the Cubs and Pirates seasons end…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
cage matches are brutal
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Since when does "Above Average" = "Very, Very Good"?
I don’t want to parse semantics here, but Jose was above average for two years of his career and STILL didn’t crack the top 15 in OPS+ in the NL in either of those years. He was an above average player on a team full of below average players that made him look AWESOME.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I actually didn't
I don’t believe he was ever “very, very good” as you stated. I don’t quantify “above average” as “very, very good”. Skip Schumaker is an above average MLB second baseman. He is not “very, very good”
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I Dunno...
… .798 and .779 OBP in his 2 Cardinal years was above average, I’d say, though not by a lot. he was 5th in batting in ‘91 and was our rep in the All-Star game. It’s not like he was Geranimo Pena, for those couple of years at least…
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
.798 and .779 OBP
would be awesome, but I get your overall point :-)
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Fangraphs to the rescue!
Back in May, I pointed out that Felix Jose had the 2nd greatest offensive month by a Cardinal (and 4th best in all of MLB) as measured by WPA on fangraphs.com (since 1974). It’s not the greatest stat available and can easily fall prey to the whimsy of SSS, but that is a hell of a lot of impact.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Felix Jose was a BEAST
when he played for the Lotte Giants in the Korean baseball league, in 1999 and 2001.
In 1999, he went .327/.425/.636(160 OPS+) and carried his team into playoffs. Then he went back to US and spent most of the 2000 season playing for the Columbus Clippers(Yankees AAA affiliate). In 2001, he returned to Korea and posted a Pujols-ian .335/.503/.695. His OPS+ in that season was 205…!!!
Cardinals fan from Korea
hey!
about that little matter of he seop choi…………?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
take no chances
due diligence, comrade.
and welcome to albertofstan!
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
btw, i think albertofstan is kinda like
the hotel california, but not sure.
the movie will likely be more borat than disney, but not sure about that either.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Now, that's a meme I can get behind.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
it pisses me off to no end that jim f'in rice is in the hall, and ray never will be
rice doesn’t deserve to hold ray’s jock. the only reason he got in was the f’in sawx twisted some arms of the press & they bent over quicker than paris hilton in front of a camcorder. it’s a pathetic joke. those same asscaptains can’t see Bert belongs in & should have been in on his first year of eligibility, yet they put in assclowns like rice just because he played for those chowdar chuggin loudmouth asshats
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Dec 3, 2009 3:17 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Same
anyone who tells me Edmonds should not be in the Hall of fame, I tell them to bring out Jimmy E. and Rice’s B-R page and take a look.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.
-- Earl Weaver
by Smokin Turkeys on Dec 3, 2009 3:38 AM EST up reply actions
+infinity
thx gdm. that was beautiful.
"Haywood leads the league in all offensive categories, including nose hair. When this guy sneezes, he looks like a party favor." - Harry Doyle
by Futility Infielder on Dec 3, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
gdm, don't hold back now little brother.
Just let it out and tell us how you really feel. And I agree a 100%, just don’t tell my fiance. We have a tenative truce in our house. She stays off the Cards and I stay off the Sawx and we both beat down the Cubs.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
How long has she been a Sawx fan?
5 years or one of the old school 6 year fans? Sorry couldn’t resist. I’m sure your fiance is a very lovely person.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
HAHA! She gets really pissed if I bring something like that up.
She’s one of the ones that we could actually almost respect. I said ALMOST. She was born and bred a Sawx fan. And for the record, she doesn’t like the wannabees anymore than we do. Although she has this infuriating inability to acknowledge the we had Cardinal Nation before they had Sawx Nation and says that she had never heard of Cardinal Nation before 04. This has led to some rather heated discussions and what brought about the truce.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Eh Sawx Nation
has corporate sponsorship from the WWL so that has to count for at least 30 or 40 years of fake history right?
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Oh, 30-40 years at the very least.
Anything outside of Ted Williams is shaky. I’ve always wondered if you creeped up behind a real Sawx fan and whispered “Bill Buckner” in their ear, would they spontaneously combust? I would try this on my fiance but I kinda like her, so I think I’ll pass. But if there ever is a time that I don’t like her that much……….
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Umm if you had ever met her father then you would know that "bandwagon"
doesn’t fit. These people are from Maine and the Sawx have a AA team there, and they go and watch baseball when there is two f’ing feet of snow on the ground. I don’t really think that bandwagon fits.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, while there may be many bandwagon fans, there are decades-long sox fans.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Last summer her folks came out here for a visit.
So with him being a baseball fan we took him to Busch to take pics and see a game. I thought “Alright, now you’re going to see some real baseball.” Well this just happened to be the game that Cliff Lee was pitching for the Indians and our offense was going thru it’s Pujols and the Seven Dwarfs routine. We ended up looking like we were asleep. I wanted to throw up. Believe me, I ate a plateful of shit that nite.
But he thought that the stadium was really nice.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
At least with Cliff Lee you get to see a good pitcher
I showed up to a game without knowing who was starting. It was Wellemeyer starting vs a left handed starter. I was like F Me.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 3, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Oh we had two good pitchers.
Carp was pitching for us and we couldn’t score enough to win. That was right after he came back and hadn’t gotten back to full Carp form.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
But yes
I can see where Welle vs a lefty would make you almost pack up and go home.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
it was just terrible
We had the B squad starting also. I remember Nick Stavinoha was starting.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 3, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Oh shit!
I’m soooo sorry you had that happen to you. Maybe going thru that was some kind of character builder? Just fishing here.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Stunts like that
would never happen in Albertofstan.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I would hope that players like Welle wouldn't even get
a work visa there.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously
If he was found in the country he’d be tortured with the ping of aluminum bats.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
You are a cruel individual.
And that is so cool.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm only trying to even out
all the pain he’s caused us already…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
you live in ohio & your better half is a sawx fan?
my condolences. you are either a brave, brave soul. or batcrap crazy
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
I don't live Ohio. I'm strictly a So. Ill boy.
Which could mean that I’m still batcrap crazy, as you put it. Sorry if I cornfuzzled ya.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
oh, the whole seeing them play the indians up in ctown threw me
love is blind my friend. so that probably makes us all batcrap. especially me more than anyone else
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Well, somehow I got a girl from Maine to move 1300 miles
to the middle of Tornado Alley and Cardinal country. I must be smoother than I thought or she’s blinder than I thought. When we had those earthquakes last spring after she moved out here, I thought she was going to move back…that freaked her out a bit.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
"last year in the spring"
I really should learn to preview shit.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Wow! I took 8 hours for somebody to catch that.
I guess that tells me how much people pay attention to what I say. lol.I only wish I had seen that game. I got to see Pinata vs Jimenez. We lost 7-2. It sucked just as bad as I described.
I really thought gdm had it earlier. But he let it slip away.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
the hell?
i did catch you. you said you saw c lee pitch & he pitched up here in cleveland & you said something something something
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
I said it was at Busch and nobody noticed.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
I don't live there.
This was sort of a test to see if anybody really paid attention. Everything else is true except what game it was and where it was at. We saw the game vs Colorado on June 7. The really sad part is I could have lived with Lee shutting us down but we got shut down by Jimenez.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Jimenez is pretty good
one of the top 5-6 in the NL this year.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
True, but he seems like a pitcher we should be able to get to.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
well
he’s not a soft-tossing lefty, so maybe, but i love that guy since i first saw him during that rocks run in 07 – i was like wow, here’s a young pedro (ok, a little hyperbole on my part, as pedro is the greatest pitcher i ever saw, personally)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Maybe I'm not giving the guy enough credit.
But in my mind, he just doesn’t end up in the group of Carp, Waino, Lincecum, Halladay, Sabathia, Lee and a few others that are shut-down pitchers. I know his numbers say otherwise but he just doesn’t jump out at me as such. And therefore should be hittable.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
more than in that league
i put him as an up-and-comer to that league, about like felix hernandez a couple years ago (kingfish has ascended) – josh johnson, imo, is also right there with jimenez
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I will try to keep more of an eye on him in the future then.
Josh Johnson impresses me, and if you think he’s in the same footing as Jimenez then I will have to be impressed by him as well, whether I want to or not.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
is that a threat?
btw, forsch and tudor are two of my card pitching faves and both are represented in screen names here, which is pretty cool. i hope a mattie morris era signs on.
hell, i was raised on gibby and maxy -nobody ever talks about him, and perhaps rightly so, but he was my guy. i tried to like rick wise.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Maxy was one of the best defensive SS
You would ever want to see from all I have heard. Wish I could’ve done so. He also was a fair hand at GM.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 5, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
maxy and belanger
begat boog…somehow.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I apologize if I was messing with you.
It was one of those ideas I couldn’t pass up.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
you don't have to apologize
apparently audiordie was the only one paying attention
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
no one's paying attention to you other than your avatar
sorry to break it to you.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Thank you for clarifying that.
Now I can go on about my day.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't read your post.
I did see that game in person. In my brand new Asdrubal Cabrera jersey tee. Oh yeah. That was awesome.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Well thanks for playing anyway.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
maybe every, er, most fans outside of NE
but Boston has lived and died with the Sox since long before 2004 (and I Iived there both before and after 2004). Boston is an unbelieveable sports town.
Now, if you want to complain that there’s too many drunk idiots at Fenway, then I’m right there with you.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 3, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Oh there are die hards
But never has a bandwagon been hitched to a team like the bandwagon of the Red Sox. Did anyone actually see Boston hats before 2004 in Columbia, MO?
Not afraid to nitpick
oh, it's happened. 49ers fans in the 80s. packers fans in the 90s. yankees fans forever.
dallas cowboys fans for quite a while. chicago bulls in the early 90s.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
you said "every sawx fan"
if you’d said “every sawx fan in Columbia, MO that didn’t move there from Boston” then I’d probably agree.
I was just trying to disabuse those who might have thought that the Red Sox got popular in Boston or New England only after 2004. The whole town lived and died (mostly died) with the Sawx long before 2004.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 3, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
I meant that as in
Even the bandwagon fans say they are die hard sufferers. Thus every Sawx fan says they were born and bred even though 75% nationwide aren’t.
I don’t think any of the Jordan fans really claimed they were die hards back in 1983, it’s just fun to watch historically good teams. The Sawx are not a historically good, legendary team.
Not afraid to nitpick
Jordan was a helluva lot of fun to watch at N.Carolina.
A skinny kid that could jump into the rafters.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
My fiance said that the only bad thing about Fenway was the drunks.
She went to a bunch of games when she was in college in Boston. That was about 15 years ago…guess it hasn’t changed much.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm assuming she doesn't run on the tall side...
Sitting with you knees in your mouth isn’t fun. I’m just finally able to stand properly after my trip out there in 07.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
nope 5'3
requisite height I’m told. I would like to go just to say I’ve been there. I’m guessing standing room only ftw?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Stay away from the seats behind Williamsburg...
can’t speak for the rest of the stadium. Good view of the game… terrible place to sit…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Maybe I will get her an aisle seat
and just take a cushion and sit in the aisle.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
It's alright once you get in there...
At least the game I went to there weren’t a lot of people going back and forth. So I was pretty much able to wedge myself in there and call it good for the game.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
My cousin is a Cubs fan
and he’s marrying a Red Sox fan. And they are infuriating during baseball season.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
We should really take up a collection
so you can keep the bourbon supplies high during the season.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
no worries
just don’t make jokes about me having a beard…
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Well they should cancel each other out.
As one has a tradition of losing and the other a tradition of winning. Even though they are both DB teams.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah they cancel each other out
In terms of winning, but not in terms of being completely obnoxious.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Very true.
In that case I agree with ducttape and we should take a collection to keep yourself numbed while talking to them.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I can't even REALLY talk about baseball with my only friend who is on the same level
of fandom as me because he is a Red Sox fan. His views are the clear cut answer in a game where there are no clear cut answers. I usually just nod my head when he tells me about how underrated Kevin Youkilis is, or how Ellsbury is actually one of the best CF in the game and UZR is a BS stat. Oh, and how every Sox player is the best in baseball at something, and how every prospect is gonna be an all star-HOFer. Not surprisingly I hate Boston.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.
-- Earl Weaver
by Smokin Turkeys on Dec 3, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Rice vs. Edmonds
At their peak they are pretty comparable players. Rice just had an abrupt end to his career while Edmonds played a bit longer, and Edmonds was the superior defensive player.
That said, I don’t think looking at BBef is going to really work in your favor, lol.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I think Ray Lankford love is common, and rightfully so. Personally, he was part of my favorite outfield of all time. 1996-98 where he Brian Jordan, Ron Gant and Willie McGee rocked the house.
Seemed a classy guy too. I was to young to really remember much other than some moments of his play, but I remember it was a few seasons ago. Channel 11 spotted him in attendence at Busch and someone (Frank Kousamano maybe?) just walked up to him and started interviewing him out of nowhere. Ray was obviously surprised, and seemed a little rattled, but shook it off and ended up giving a pretty great interview.
I can’t help but feel he was a victim of circumstance. There were some years in his prime where the Cardinals just were not competitive. Even still, Ray Lankford, Darryl Kile and Matt Morris are the reason I’m a Cardinals fan.
Wish he could have ended his career on a better note too. He’s like our Bernie Williams, just minus the rings.
I’ve rambled enough. I doubt he should be in the hall, but I hate the sports writers, and therefore the hall. You can be in my hall Ray.
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
What about Ozzie?
Great post!
But I am wondering where Ozzie ranks on that list…
he's listed
sixth.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I forgot to mention
I get the vibe the young cards fans will feel about Colby the way that we all feel about Ray Lankford. This is a good thing.
That and I REALLY would have like to seen Stan. Albert’s going to have to keep up the pace, for the next 8 years, to catch him (in terms of career WAR). I honestly don’t know if that says more about Albert of Stan.
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
Man do i wish I could have witness Stan the Man
but that’s why we should never take Albert for granted. Getting to watch Albert’s career from when I was 14 until hopefully I am in my 30’s will always be the most treasured time in my baseball life. I cannot fathom something more amazing.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.
-- Earl Weaver
by Smokin Turkeys on Dec 3, 2009 3:51 AM EST up reply actions
I think if Albert finishes his career as the 2nd greatest Cardinal ever
he can still be pretty damn proud. Stan’s got to be the most under-rated baseball player ever.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:28 AM EST up reply actions
Albertofstan
sounds like an amazing country. One where I wouldn’t mind living. A country where the concession stands have no lines. A country where every kid gets an autograph before the game. A country where we are all 17 WAR in our jobs whatever they may be. A country where it’s baseball season year round. A country where no one runs on Yadi, because it’s well known how foolish that is. A country where Bobby Bonilla is a national hero for giving us the gift of Pujols. A country where children are taught how to keep score by their father. A country where nerds in their parent’s basements get HOF votes. A country where aluminum bats and their annoying pings have been outlawed and never will be heard again, unless it’s to torture our enemies. A country where no one talks on the cell phone or texts during a game. A country where sliding into first actually makes sense. A country where there is a constitutional amendment against the DH. A country where all news reports bring news of nothing other than how ridiculous Albert is. A country where pies are used as currency.
I don’t know about everyone else, but to me that sounds like heaven… maybe even baseball heaven.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Dec 3, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 22 recs
rec'd
except you forgot the mothers passing on their love of stats, and NO WAVE.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Can't believe I forgot about the wave...
Such an idiot
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I imagined someone like Dennis Haysbert saying this
while patriotic music plays softly in the background.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 3, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I like where your head's at.
Morgan Freeman is probably too busy.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Rec'd
I just reread this to the tune of an old Bluegrass tune “BigRock Candy Mountain”, and I got this warm fuzzy feeling.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
except instead of a country where no one runs on Yadi, I’d like a country where everyone runs on Yadi and they all get mowed down by his cannon-arm.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
I'll keep that in mind
next time I write out a country’s ethos
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Rec'd
My citizenship application is en route.
Really, the only bad part of bacon is that it makes you thirsty . . . for more bacon
I'd like make an amendment to your amendment.
that needs to read" DH and artificial turf." Sorry to get all Bull Durham.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking that...
then I realized that’d open a can of worms with the whole Whiteyball thing… Can’t cut out a decade of winning ball just like that.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
True. I don't know what I was thinking,
considering that I grew up in the entire Whiteyball era. Maybe we could have a Whiteyball museum and preserve it there, like so many other things that don’t get used anymore and make the amendment in a henceforth fashion.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
It's not green on my page yet (might just be a refresh thing) so I'm giving you a safety rec to make sure.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Q: is this heaven?
A: no, it’s albertofstan.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 3, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
it's SPAAAARRRTTAAAAAAA
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I will admit I still find this sort of thing pretty funny
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
HFS
think I’ll have to typo more often
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
SImply wonderful.
Seriously the stupid DH is terrible. Just try telling any AL fan it’s not true baseball. They will have none of it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Sigh
Is this heaven you speak of?
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
looked it up
FYI – Ozzie is listed at 64.7 WAR and, because you were wondering, Albert is slightly ahead of the wizard – Pujols is at 67.4 and counting.
This might be my favorite post ever.
being around the same age as Dan, Ray was my favorite Cardinal as a kid. I was a little young to fully appreciate the awesomeness that was The Wizard, but Lankford was the guy that made me begin to fall in love with the cards (with Big Mac sealing the deal). My earliest memory of the cardinals is going in my mom’s room and watching TRTV when they carried the Cardinal games in Jackson. I sat in there and watched as young as 4-5 years old. My earliest memory of Busch is a Lankford home run. I could not tell you the year, game or opponent, only that it was raining. Lankford played as big of a role as anyone (other that my father) as to why I am such a ridiculously huge Cards fan.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.
-- Earl Weaver
same here
ill give you one guess where the “16” comes from in all of my usernames and emails
Vladimir Konstantinov?
Oh wait that’s me… nothing to see here… moving along.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
i am confused by this dishonest proposal business, dan.
are you suggesting i sleep with ray lankford’s wife for a million dollars? or that he pay me a million dollars to sleep with my wife?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I think he means that in order to get elected into the hall,
Lankford is going to have to pay Will Carroll and Keith Law a million dollars, sleep with Rob Neyer’s wife, and threaten to eat the babies of John Branch and Ron Borges and the rest of the BBWAA.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
that sounds like a nice little saturday
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
enjoyable read as usual, DanUp
btw, good job being publicist for murakami. made me trek all the way to wikipedia to read up on him. sounds like he’s a baseball fan, but do you know if there’s any merit to the story of his epiphany at the exact moment of contact by some american batting in japan, when murakami realized he could write a novel? i presume this is why you travelled to japan, to run down this story.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
while I was there girlfriendup and I did a fair amount of murakami touristing
his new book, which is still year or two away in the states, is absolutely enormous out there. I can’t remember the last time a “literary” author got so big out here, so I don’t really have anything to compare it to, but it was impossible to avoid posters advertising it and full-sized magazines offering to unlock the secrets behind it.
anyway, I’ve read murakami telling the dave hilton story on two or three separate occasions, so either it’s true or it’s the story he’s decided to tell about his writing career. which reminds me, I need to sponsor the man’s baseball-reference page. the least I could do.
you should definitely sponsor the page
what if he hadn’t cracked that pitch? i mean, It’s a Wonderful Life season is upon us.
hilton’s similarity scores included danny ainge and bobby cox. pretty cool he was the number one pick (Pads, ’71).
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I LOVE MURAKAMI SIDE-THREADS ON VEB
Oh, Dan, I finished After Dark. It wasn’t my favorite — in fact, I probably loved it the least of the Murakami I’ve read so far — but I liked it.
On to Sputnik Sweetheart!
Brilliant post, Dan
I really think the balance of the four current front page posters may well be the best in VEB’s recent history.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
I have a special place in my heart for Ray Lankford
I was at Busch to witness his major league debut against the Braves in 1990.
A year later I went to a game at Busch and saw him hit for the cycle against the Mets.
Fast forward 7 years later and I saw him hit 2 HRs in a game at Riverfront Stadium against the Reds one was a grand slam.
I always felt that in a very small way I was a part of Ray’s great career as a Cardinal. Or at least I was there to witness some of his milestone games.
Now I know Ray shouldn’t be in the baseball HOF but I DO BELIEVE Ray should have his number retired for the Cardinals and should have a firm spot in the Cardinal HOF. Ray was a great player and was the best player for the Cardinals for a decade (1990’s). He should be remembered and the Cardinals owe it to him and his fans to retire his number. Period. Yes Mr. DeWitt it’s time to retire Lankford’s number and put him with the other legends.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
The Secret Weapon
It’s funny- I had a similar experience with Oquendo. My bro, dad and me would go down to StL a couple times a year to see a couple of games at a time. For about three years straight we always managed to see at least one great performance by Oquendo per pair of games. It was uncanny. After the second year this happened we started to talk about it with amused disbelief. The third year, if memory serves, I believe he hit a homer in back to back games we attended.
We joked that were the Secret Weapon’s secret weapons.
by Scarecrow7775 on Dec 3, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
A bunch of HOFers who played their whole career, or large parts of it, for the Cards org haven't had their numbers retired
I’d think HOF is pretty much essential for that honor. We talked about this a bit in the “number 15” thread re: Edmonds.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
A cow should never have to apologize for some Willie McGee love.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 3, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Between Cow's McGee love and your SN
I am getting transported back to a wonderful time of life, when baseball and weekends were really all I cared about or had to care about.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Not an f'ing chance of forgetting Silent George.
It’s strange to look back at that time and how he was a home run threat and he wouldn’t even register as such today. Just not in an elite status.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I Know...
…but I remember a time when pitchers would rather eat their own cap than pitch to Silent George with RISP (back when such things like hitting with men in scoring position was moore important than scratching out a walk…)
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I remember that as well.
He was a nice force to have on the team. Although I would imagine conversations with him were short. I was very sorry to see him leave.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Silent George
He was my favorite player when I was young. I admired his aloof nature…and the fact that he was pretty much the only player on those early 80’s teams who could hit a homer.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
by indakind on Dec 3, 2009 9:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Apparently he told the stadium crew guys to unluck one of the outfield gates for him as they were wrapping up the 1982 WS...
And legend has it that, as soon as the game was over, he walked right out, got into his car, and drove home. He sounds like a pretty interesting guy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Met and talked with Ray at a
wedding this summer. Me—grouchy and pissed about having to dress up to go to a wedding of my wife’s friend. To my surprise, there was Ray Lankford at the reception. A genuinely nice guy. Tried to get him to say something negative about TLR but Ray wouldn’t budge. He has no hard feelings toward the Cards organization (at least not expressed to a drunk stranger who bent his ear at a wedding reception).
Ray-Ray
First- no, I really can’t believe Ray is that close to Brock. Blows my mind. But he is, so hats off to him.
Next, my point- although I really enjoyed watching Ray play, and he was an important piece in the we-haven’t-sniffed-the-playoffs-in-9-freaking-years! ’96 team, my overall impression of him now is the same as it was a few years in on his career; a wistful sigh for what might have been.
He was a whole hell of a lot of fun to watch in center, but his bat- ugh! he still frustrates me! Had he developed some discipline he could have been a truly great hitter. It’s not just the strikeout totals (although that doesn’t help), but ever if there was a guy who tried to hit bases empty three run homers, and base-clearing doubles with a guy on second and first and third empty, he was it.
He had the tools, I think, to do that physically, but, well, it just seemed he was never able to crest the wave and mount the board at the same time.
Regarding a possible number retirement- I wouldn’t protest it, but I suppose I would prefer the Cards didn’t.
That may sound like I have a negative opinion of him days in the BOB, but I don’t. On balance, I enjoyed watching him play. But, he is fading from my memory. I guess I was a bit too old at the time he came up for him to have the “reason I love the Cardinals” impact he seems to have on some.
Hector Luna
now there’s a number that should be retired…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
A country where Jimmy Fallon's team always, always loses in the post-season.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
The Yankees or the Sawx
which team are we talking about… I know it doesn’t really matter, but I’m just curious
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
massive reply fail
this was to your rec’d post above. I think I got sbn’d.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:36 AM EST up reply actions
i'd want one
then sharpie out his last name and replace it with “Albertofstan”
Matthew, Mark, Lugo, and John.
Great post, Dan.
I very much enjoyed it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I was looking at Ray's BR page, and I stumbled upon the 2000 card's page...
And wow, were they stacked. Check this out:
1B-Big Mac (Will Clark later on in the season)
2B-Vina
3B-Tatis
SS-Edgar
LF-Lankford
CF-Jimmy Baseball
RF-JD Drew
C-Matheny
2000 Cards secret weapon: Placido Polanco
currents: Phils close to locking down Placido
3/18M say the rumors.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
They can have him for that.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.
-- Earl Weaver
by Smokin Turkeys on Dec 3, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I'd sign Polanco for that.
It’s a risk, but hell, $6M a year for that kind of defense, unless he completely falls off the map offensively is well worth it.
Plus there’s the Pujols caddy issue.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 3, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
That's what makes the 3 years astounding to me.
Polanco’s age and position are major red flags.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Maybe
or maybe not. He was uncharacteristically unlucky on BABIP last year.
He would have to collapse defensively and offensively for him to not be worth that contract. I question the Phillies’ apparent willingness to put him at 3B, where he hasn’t played in 5 seasons, particularly since his bat doesn’t play as well there as it does 2B.
He’s a much better fit for the Birds, and at that price a huge bargain.
Of course, if this means that the Phils will not be chasing Adrian Beltre, I’d be interesed to see the Birds go down that path, too.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 3, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
hmm. odds that by the 2011 trade deadline they're looking for a full-time 3b and polanco is their utilityman . . .
i give it 3-1 odds.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
He's on the john.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
does he actually ever go to duffys?
cuz its a mile from my house and ive never seen him, but i could totally see that being true lol
ha, reminds me of a story:
that Richmond Heights Duffy’s has trivia on Wednesdays (check it out, actually pretty fun). Part of the schtick there is that each round you get to name your team, and everybody tries to make it as funny or offensive as possible for when its read aloud. Anyway, one night we’re there and we see Marshall Faulk hanging out at the bar. We named our team “Marshall Faulk’s Illegitimate Children” and the announcer read it aloud. Actually got a chuckle out of Marshall — he seemed like a pretty cool guy. Anyway, guess next time I’ll have to look for Ray Lankford too.
trivia naming story
A couple years ago, some friends and I were out at a similar trivia night. We’d been through a couple rounds of the scores being read with nothing but the typical punny/topical team names. Around the third round, however, one of the teams had changed their name to “The table next to us needs to get a room.” Obviously, everyone in the bar scanned the room before finding the oblivious couple making out in a previously unnoticed corner.
The impressive thing was that the couple managed to completely ignore all of this and continued going at it for the rest of the night (through another couple readings of the scores with modified team names along the lines of “seriously guys, we know that you can hear us” etc). They were still there when trivia ended and the bar cleared out. As far as I know, that couple has remained liplocked in that shady corner ever since.
by brackenthebox on Dec 3, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
This sounds
like a story that rocKStarK5 would usually tell….
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Apparently, gdm
ClemsonGirl has something she wants to tell us about the above story….lol
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Dec 3, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh wow.
I had no idea that could be taken that way. Darn.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You're learning, young one.
It takes some experience to keep from falling into a trap.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
That will never happen.
I’ll always fall into these traps.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Apparently, ClemsonGirl
gdm has something he wants to tell us about rocKStarK5
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 3, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I see you haven't checked out
the “Number 15” Fanpost. Tom S. (note the capitalization) posted this tidbit:
61 Bobby Grich 67.6 1970 1986
62 Carlton Fisk 67.5 1969 1993 yes
63 Albert Pujols 67.4 2001 2008
64 Duke Snider 67.2 1947 1964 yes
65 Edgar Martinez 67.2 1987 2004
66 Larry Walker 67.1 1989 2005
67 Alan Trammell 66.8 1977 1996
68 Eddie Murray 66.7 1977 1997 yes
69 Jim Edmonds 66.6 1993 2008
70 Pee Wee Reese 66.4 1940 1958 yes
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He really was walking in some tall cotton, wasn't he?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Cameron
Sure, it’s Buster Olney. And, sure, the Cards probably aren’t going to sign Mike Cameron to man left field in 2010. Since Cameron’s willingness to play left has been pondered here, i thought I’d pass this along, via MLBTR:
•The Mets have discussed Mike Cameron, who would consider playing left or right, and Xavier Nady.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i don't know if i'm happy to hear cameron will play a corner or sad to hear the mets have his phone number.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
It's a two-way street.
Doesn’t this likely mean that they won’t go after Holliday (if we weren’t sure of this already)?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 3, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
you've been nexdef'd
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
But that only said they were close to locking him down
not that they had actually done it yet. I was updating. I’ve been nexdef’d before, but I try not to let it get the best of me.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
I Like Polanco...
…but I’m kind of glad we didn’t pay that moooch for his services.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
To me that seems low. Per Fangraphs
Polanco has only been worth less $6M once in his career. Avg value of the last 5 years is over $14M a year
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 3, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, three years is an odd length of time,
but considering he would be worth 2/18, adding a year for zero extra dollars doesn’t seem like a terrible problem.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
But you already got the surplus value,
so the third year is just gravy in which you can cut him if you need to while still paying his contract and still have made a good investment.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Yeah...
seems like a problem I’d try to avoid… this is why I should GM no team other than the Royals.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Apparently our Farm System Ranks
Second to Last…ahead of just the Houston Astros.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
The Cubs are better than five teams?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
They also called Jarrod Parker the 3rd overall pick in the 2007 draft
Basic fact checking fail=not the best source.
Not afraid to nitpick
It's Baseball America's list, isn't it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 3, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
i bet that doesn't last long. i think some guys in the 2009 draft are really going to blow the doors off this season.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I am pretty high on Robert Stock
Plus, we could potentially restock the system with all the supplement picks.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 3, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
i would guess there are 6 or more players from the 2009 draft in the top 20 next year.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I remain in love with Scott Bittle
and Kyle Conley’s looking intriguing…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:41 AM EST up reply actions
I also love Robert Stock.
And for reasons other than the nickname possibilities.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
we need to promote him and racobaldo quickly.
if for no other reason than I hope to have a memphis team with them and djtools, so i can call them “Rock, Stock, and Daryl.”
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 3, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ba dumdum
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
I guess, but where do we put him?
Even if he does pan out as a catcher, don’t we want to lock up Yadi long term? And 1b is blocked as always.
Or perhaps are you excited of his pitching skills :)
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
if he pans out as a catcher
he hits the majors right around the time Yadi’s starting to get very expensive (and possibly not far from a decline phase anyhow).
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:42 AM EST up reply actions
Too many good catchers in the organization?
Not exactly a terrible problem to have.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
almost anyone can catch
says David Freese.
one day we’ll find out Yadi’s actually training an army of catchers with which take over the world.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
so long as there are no coups
in albertofstan.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Worry not, comrade
El Molinistas will bring Albertofstanian-style revolución to the rest of the world!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Dec 4, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
they'll be well-armed.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
you make us citizens proud, yadi2
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I thought it was anyone can play second base
Presented by The Skip Schumaker Experiment, returning for an encore performance this spring …
Really, the only bad part of bacon is that it makes you thirsty . . . for more bacon
Dan
I hear ya on the Ray Lankford love. After Ozzie was sent to the Home, Ray took over as my favorite Cardinal. I was 13 in 1998 and down near the field before Opening Day. A TV reporter came up to interview me and started asking me about the new Big Mac Land and Mark McGwire’s power. He then asked who my favorite player was. I said Ray Lankford. He looked confused, shook my hand and moved on to the next kid who proudly said he loved Mark McGwire.
Ray was a great player who was constantly over-looked. Hall-of-Famer, probably not. But I still loved watching him.
Braves are screwed if Soriano accepts arbitration
He would be looking at 8-9 million in an arb award. The Braves would have a very pricey bullpen and they have done nothing to address last year’s not very good offense.
Of course with their staring pitching and bullpen they probably would not have to score much.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
They easily have the best pitching staff (starters and bullpen) in the NL and possibly baseball
They just have super depth now
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 3, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Look for them to trade from it, now,
to get a bat.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 3, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
has anybody linked them to adrian gonzalez? seems like a young pitcher for gonzalez could be a complementary swap.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I haven't read anything like that.
The only Adrian Gonzalez rumors I’ve heard are that the Red Sox have inquired; but, since the Sox inquired about any- and every-one, I didn’t pay much attention to it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 3, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
think i saw
vasquez for cuddyer, a guy i’ve pined for here, thinking he’d be available (had never heard of a team having to pick up an option two years in advance like that, but as soon as they did i figured they’d move him and get mauer done)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
while curly fries may let Soriano maximize his earning for next year
if it were me, i would rather get the max guaranteed deal rather than a one year deal. relief pitchers being what they are and pitcher’s health being the monster that it is.
if someone offers 3/18 or so i take that over the 1 yr deal
but then again i’m not the biggest risk taker….
I hadn't seen anything about that
Do you have a link?
If they both declined arb then this makes sense. If not, then the Braves could be in a payroll bind if Soriano and/or Gonzalez accept.
They are not going to be able to move Lowe so a $$$ crunch almost certainly leads to a trade of Vasquez which would put a significant dent in their staff.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I just looked for that news
All I saw was Jon Heyman reporting that Soriano and Gonzalez are likely to decline arbitration. I found nothing stating that they have in fact done so.
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/6304839009
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
My source was my friend telling me
Which is a crappy source that I probably should have checked first.
No worries
I thought it was odd that they wouldn’t wait and gauge the market as best as possible before declining. While I think it is likely that both will decline…if they don’t the Braves are going to have no leverage trying to move salary. Everyone will know that they have to move pitchers for hitters so they will have a tough time getting value for their extra pitchers.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
the braves sorta guaranteed that
by signing wagner to close, no? closers get the money, so the other two would have to move on and atlanta gets the picks from two guys while only giving up the pick for one (wagner). don’t know why epstein got all the love because wren (?) won with wagner as big as theo did, imo.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
because epstein paid fuck all to get the 18th pick in the draft
whereas Wren gave up that pick plus $7m for a relief pitcher who likely isn’t worth that much.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:45 AM EST up reply actions
so wren gave up one first round pick
and 7 mil for 2 first rounders and wagner, right? personally i think wagner is worth the 7 and that 2 first rounders are better than one – aren’t soriano and gonzalez both A’s?
it’s like they both gained an extra first rounder.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
No, Wren gave up $7m and a first rounder for Wagner.
They got those two (potential) first rounders for Soriano and Gonzalez. It is totally, totally wrong to put those on the “credit” side of the Wagner trade. That’s like me saying “well, I bought a new sunhouse for $6,000 this month, but I got paid my $3000 paycheck too, so actually the sunhouse cost me $3000, which is a bargain”.
They’re mutually exclusive transactions. If the Braves hadn’t signed Wagner, and had gone and got, I dunno, that Japanese guy who’s entering FA, or Ocatvio Dotel or someone to close, then they’d still have the 18th pick in the draft, plus the picks for Gonzo and Soriano.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
You're making the assumption
that Soriano and Gonzalez don’t accept arbitration, and they still could. The Braves would then have the most expensive bullpen in the National League I think.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
probably in baseball
I can’t think of an AL team with lots of crazy expensive “proven closers”, now Boston have lost Saito and Wagner. NYY’s is pretty cheap and home-grown, Mo excepted (I can’t recall if they’re still paying Marte about $5m as well).
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
i believe
based on timing, the braves plan was to offer the two arb, sign wagner immediately, both as a baseball decision and business, knowing it would pretty much ensure they don’t accept, and then they signed saito as sort of the nail in that coffin. after all, cox and mcdowell went to wagner’s home to personally recruit him in advance, so he is the man they wanted and they got him, knowing they could recoup the pick plus another. i think it’s a smart plan because i’d rather have wagner than soriano or gonzalez. it could all fall apart, but i like the plan. and epstein surely paid something for wagner himself – i forget the trade, but imagine they must have had to at least pay the man.
if the braves trade vasquez for prospects rather than an established bat like cuddyer, which is very possible, then they would likely sign a type A bat and wagner would then probably only cost a second round pick.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Great article
DanUp, I read vivaelbirds often and comment seldom. Your Ray Lankford write-up is, as the Brits say, brilliant! As a life-long Cardinal Fan, I never quite got Lankford. Maybe I was too busy hoping for that Brian Jordan career breakout, and therefore, undersold Lankford so Jordan wouldn’t look so mediocre. Great trip down memory lane. Thanks!
OT: Fangraphs Valuations...
During today’s chat on ESPN.com, Keith Law took a shot at Fangraphs $ valuations when someone mentioned that Polanco was “worth” $50 million over the last 3 years. I don’t always agree w/ Law but I’m w/ him on this.
I’m seeing these $ valuations taken as gospel more and more. (for example: Player X got paid $8 million but was worth 1.8 WAR or $8.1 million. He is definitely worth more than he costs) I don’t think that should be the case. Can any team actually afford to pay players according to these valuations? I know I’m cherry-picking here, but Matt Holiday was “worth” over $85 million over the past 3 years. Would any team sign him to a 3/$85, though? Or even a 3/$70?
And please don’t think I’m discrediting Fangraphs and the wonderful people who write there and the brilliant people who created these stats and valuations. This is NOT what I’m saying. I just don’t think that these valuations should be used as the definitive criteria for what a player is worth/should be paid.
I think we're all guilty of using Fangraphs as the ultimate authority at times.
Whether it’s UZR, WAR, or valuation. There was a post, I think on THT, about “WAR criminals” and how folks misuse it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 3, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
That's backwards looking
The reason that no team would give him a 3/85M deal going forward is because there’s risk involved. If anyone could guarantee that he’s going to be worth 20 WAR over the next 3 years, yes a team could and would give him 3/85M. That’s not possible in the real world so you’ll never see it. Obviously the fact that Polanco was “worth” 50M the past 3 years isn’t necessarily alllllll that relevant to how a 34 year old will be the next 3 years.
IMO the biggest problem with the WAR/value stuff is that yearly UZRs swing it wildly. Does anyone think Matt Holliday went from a -5 to a 14 run defender between 06/07? That’s a full 2 WAR just on what is likely the inability to measure a player’s actual defensive value. And likewise if Polanco is in reality closer to a +5 defender than the +2/11 he “put up” the last two years then WAR paints a picture of a guy in heavy decline. I’d much prefer a 2/3 year average for the defensive value stuff.
Not afraid to nitpick
The other problem with UZR values
is that they are subject to adjustments based on other players who are playing that position in a league in a given year. For example, if Mike Cameron, Colby Rasmus, Frankie Gutierrez, Carl Crawford, David DeJesus, Matt Kemp, and Carlos Beltran all were moved to LF in the NL for next year, while Adam Dunn, Manny Ramirez, and Jason Bay were all moved to different postions, a UZR of 10 from the year before could end up being a UZR of less than 0 the next year for the exact same defensive performance, it’s just that the performance of your peers went from -20 to +20 within one year.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
This is one of the reasons that I prefer Dewan's +/- system
It is based on plays actually made and missed. I personally think that anything less than a 3yr sample of UZR is pretty much worthless.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
VEP and MGL
have both provided me info showing that UZR correlates pretty well after around 2000 innings, so I’ve kinda deferred this portion of the debate to them since they are far better at the math than I am.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
If they say 2000 innings is a good enough sample then I'll agree
I still don’t like the ever changing baseline.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I think most of the time it is barely noticable
but I do think that in a situation like the one I described above, where you have a bunch of defensive studs moving into a position they didn’t play last year, the effect would be more pronounced. That situation may not ever happen, it’s theoretical, but if the stat can’t adjust for something like that or has it’s values effected in any significant way then it could be a problem.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
...
That’s a full 2 WAR just on what is likely the inability to measure a player’s actual defensive value
I disagree. A players defensive value, like anything else, suffers from sample size error. Meaning that one season of data doesn’t accurately represent there true ability. Given that UZR suffers from a much smaller sample per year than offensive stats, the effect is magnified.
When you see someone go from 14 to -5, that’s not because the stat is flawed. It’s a combination of measurement error and sample error, with a much larger amount of sample error.
That's exactly what I'm saying
The stat itself isn’t “flawed” in any sense besides sample size, but the yearly WAR stats on fangraphs don’t recognize that at all. WAR fluctuates wildly with what is most likely sample error on defensive data. A year’s worth of defensive data is simply insufficient to try to derive the seemingly specific WAR value (down to the tenth!) that is displayed.
A 2/3 year average of UZR for defense would give a more accurate measure of value in any given year than simply summing a year’s UZR + offense because of the inherent sample error in UZR.
(I’m pretty drunk so that may or may not have made a lick of sense)
Not afraid to nitpick
A year’s worth of defensive data is simply insufficient to try to derive the seemingly specific WAR value (down to the tenth!) that is displayed.
I think VEP is arguing (not to put words in anyone’s mouth) that it IS sufficient to determine the player’s WAR for that year, but that it is not, per se, reflective of his true talent level or very predictive.
In the same way that Brendan Ryan may hit 8 HR in one season, and it WOULD impact on his value for that year, but isn’t terribly predictive of his likelihood to do it again the following season.
At least I think that’s what he’s saying. The size of the sample for a season of fielding data is insufficient to establish anything much about talent level (beyond a vague estimate), but the actual accuracy of the measuring system is reasonably good, so it DOES accurately report what actually happened.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 6:01 AM EST up reply actions
I think you should regress a little bit
Because there is some measurement error. But not a whole lot in a full seasons worth of data (unless there is a lot bias, which I don’t think there is).
It's also possible
that Holliday had a really shitty defensive year. We see fluctuations in offense that are this significant. What’s the convincing argument that players can’t have swings in their defensive value for a year? You shouldn’t use that as the projection but the argument that it’s always a sample or measurement or stat “flaw” is overused and ignores the reality of variance in player performance.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
a bruise on Matty's nutsack agrees with you.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
excellent point
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't think they should be used definitively,
but I think they do provide a very useful guide in terms of player valuation and should be used accordingly. The market really should be what sets the value of players, and the values that FanGraphs gives is just an attempt to put some type of dollar value on players based on their historical skills sets.
I have my problems with this as well. I think that the dollar value of 1 WAR on the free agent market changes due to a lot of factors that change depending on other signings, where certain big market teams have open positions, and so on, and I don’t think that we can quantify an absolute number with that. I also don’t think that we should use a certain baseline across multiple years. For instance, I find it hard to believe that $4.5M spent in the 2008 offseason netted 1 WAR, simply because of all the money spent by one team on 3 free agents is going to skew that number.
I also think that there are a lot of people who treat UZR values as gospel for defense when they are anything but, especially in samples smaller than 2000 innings. A full season of games is around ~1400 innings, so you really don’t have a high enough set of data to be evaluating players unless you have a season and a half of data, at minimum, and probably should have 2 seasons worth of data before drawing conclusions that proceed into making predictions on future performance.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Do as he says
not as he does. Or something like that.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
baseball humor of the day, bad idea jeans department:
ivan rodriguez likely to decline arbitration.
RRRRRRIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHTTTTT.
because teams are just going to line up to give you a multi-year deal you aging superstar, you. there’s a lot of catchers out there better than pudge, ca. 2009. rod barajas, bengie molina, zaun . . . .
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Well, he would be a great backup
The Dodgers or Giants might come to mind for him.
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
sure, somebody will take him, but how's he going to get more than arb would net him? maybe he just really wants out of houston.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Houston?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
dammit. one of those texas cities.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
you could just say "he wants out of Texas"
I’m sure that’s what you really meant. It was just a typo, a slip of the keys, even.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
It's really heartwarming the way you try to help other people
out with their missteps.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
If you're the Giants
why would you sign Rodriguez as a backup when you have Molina under contract and his heir apparent and top org prospect Buster Posey ready by the middle of next season?
I could see the Dodgers going after him, but I don’t think Pudge wants to be a backup.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I thought Molina's on the market
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the Mets want him, I think.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and I'm not sure anyone believes in Buster.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Really?
Mr. Sickles would beg to differ, as would this report, and this report.
It’s tough to get a solid A grade from Sickles, and when he rates someone that high he hasn’t been wrong too often. Everyone I’ve read pretty much seems to think he’s the #2 catching prospect behind Wieters only he isn’t expected to have 30 HR power in the bigs like Wieters is.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I mean, the people in his organization who *employ* him.
“In a perfect world, you’d love to have (Madison) Bumgarner and (Buster) Posey burst on the scene,‘’ Sabean said. "But you don’t want to rush them. So you keep at it, at the grindstone, and be ready when the best opportunities pop.’’
Now that the Giants have decided not to offer arbitration to Bengie Molina, they have joined Brad Ausmus’ most recent team, the Dodgers, in pursuing the 40-year-old catcher as a logical mentor for prospect Buster Posey,
The Giants, Mets, and Royals have interest in free agent catcher Ivan Rodriguez, assuming he doesn’t accept the Rangers’ arbitration offer.
I’m not convinced that Posey is truly ready to be the everyday catcher on Opening Day 2010. If he is their starter in ‘10, I think he’s going to take his lumps at the plate. Even if his bat is ready, the Giants could get him ABs at 1B. (Bleacher Report)
Tim Lincecum: For what short spurts we’ve gotten to see [Posey], he’s definitely shown potential. I got to see him in spring training. He had a pretty good year coming up through the minors. It was a tough spot for him to be in, I’m sure, at the end of the year being plugged in there. But he did his best and that’s really all you can ask from him. Experience is going to be key with him, like with any player, so we’ll see what happens.
So sorry if you took “anyone” too literally.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think they believe in him
they just think he might need more seasoning at the AAA level. I thought they were going to bring Molina back, but apparently that isn’t the case. Maybe they would make a play at Pudge on a one year deal then. I, for one, believe that Posey would probably be ok in the big leagues next year simply because he has such great plate discipline and is a line drive hitter.
FWIW, if they didn’t believe at all in Posey, I think they’d be looking for more than a 40 year old catcher on a one year deal though.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
yes, that was poorly worded on my part
I’ve been watching the hand-wringing over Posey for a while. the point being, though, assuming that his heir apparent is ready to go is like figuring Rasmus is going to turn into Jim Edmonds. There’s a good possibility but for this discussion, the Giants don’t seem to be banking on it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Sabean
isn’t the brightest bulb in the box either it seems, so maybe they, for one reason or another, aren’t as high on him as everyone else is. I just don’t see any reason why that would be based on what I’ve read and with the way that he’s played so far at the AA and AAA level.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I watched him in AT&T
he’s…. got some rough edges.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
despite good drafts they seem to value their prospects really wierdly
even though Alderson had lost a bit of value, I still think he’s as good as any of our pitching prospects, and they traded him for about a month and a half of Freddie Frickin’ Sanchez last year.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 6:07 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that was a terrible deal
great for the Pirates, but I guess they locked him up cheaply in case he regains some value :P
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
monk
not being a dick, but you always spell weird…well, wierdly. which i don’t give a shit, but makes me curious, is that a british spelling, or just one of those words (i have my own).
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
just a mis-spelling I think. Obviously must've done it more than once and it doesn't look "wierd" enough for me to instantly notice.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2009 6:47 AM EST up reply actions
Molina is a FA brother.
he wasn’t offered arb either. However, I have to agree that he doesn’t want to be a backup, but last years market for him better scream to his ears that he isn’ considered a starter anymore.
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
I knew that
for some reason I thought they had planned on bringing him back on a one year deal. I was apparently mistaken on that.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I know you did
but wanted to make sure you weren’t crazy or anything :)
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
ORLY?
im guessing this, if true at all, means the FO are confident that pinata has seen his last days in cardinal red.
And, because I'm interested in news about former Cardinals
The Cubs traded Miles to Oakland
I don’t see him as an AL kind of guy.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
So much for "valuing" defense
although it looks like a contract move to me — they got to dump his shitty contract for next year and the A’s got a pretty good bat in Jake Fox, a guy who really doesn’t have a position with the Cubs or with the A’s come to think of it.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
cheap replacement for Cust
who can at least adequately play a corner. if A’s develop any hitters they may make some noise assuming their young pitching doesnt implode
yah
and he can play both corner infield positions and be an emergency catcher if need be. I wouldn’t think he’d get significant playing time at 3B or catcher, but he doesn’t embarrass himself playing there.
I just figured with Barton, Wallace, and Everidge they’d probably have those slots handled.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
throw enough at the wall something is bound to stick
is the thinking here i imagine
and reading the immediate analysis it seems they gave up very little to see if he can hit for them
sounded like they sent a good chunk of money to the A's. one of the commenters said $2.5M, though i don't
know if that’s true. they might as well have just dumped him and eaten the salary. for the record, i think miles will bounce back, even if it’s just to replacement value.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
isnt that much more like a crawl back to replacement
bounce to me implies a bit more airtime than that….
now i'm seeing $1m. that makes more sense.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
my friend just said to me
now Boog will talk to him again, now that he doesn’t play for the enemy
wiki says he’ll be moving home, too … lives in the Bay Area.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Hmmmm. . .
Methinks that makes the Cubs players for Mark of Rose.
Wouldn’t it be just like the Cubs to fix their mistake in trading him be signing him to a multi-year deal now that he has a bad wing.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 4, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Oooh, lovely.
3yrs/24m for DeRosa please, Mr Hendry. We’ll take the pick, thanks.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 6:11 AM EST up reply actions
nfw. why would the cubs want another starting pitcher when their budget is so tight they won't offer harden arb?
they have a lilly/zambrano/wells/dempster rotation already and have some pretty decent options for #5. that rumor smells bad to me.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Have to agree
I don’t think the Cardinals would want that type of guy either. We aren’t that desperate :P
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
very good questions
its the time of year when over zealous media meet intentionally dishonest FO staff and we have at least something to talk about.
rumor came from some guy assoc. with his agency
who knows.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Christ, Padilla?
could it get any less exciting? I really don’t want us to be in the market for ageing, back-of-the-rotation guys who are below average and will get paid about what they’re worth. Bleugh.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 6:09 AM EST up reply actions
that little firearms fetish is interesting too
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I guess Duncan saw something he liked in the NLDS?
Apparently isn’t only “some interest” though, I’m not too concerned
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
OT: glossary round-up
help me out if I’ve forgotten any, por favor… approve/disapprove too.
dingers
curly fries aka arby
Bat Gagnozzi
The Who is Chase Utley? meme. I’m not even sure how to describe that one.
I did leave out Chair for Stavinoha but it appeared and disappeared in usage … that may have been a mistake. Do we even want him in there?
Skip ’n Slide.
Annnnnd nutshot.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and Albertofstan.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I got something in the glossary?
I should really start trying harder more often…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
well, if it catches on, it will go in
I don’t see why it wouldn’t.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
albertofstan
just shopping around for airline tickets and could only find one-way. got a real nice girl on the phone said they began that policy years ago when discovering no one used the return portion anyway.
so, yeah, i think it should go in the glossary.
oh. btw, they have a quaint tradition of greeting you at the airport with pies.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
and dingers?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
when you walk off, they'll also lovingly punch you in the face
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i.e. it's catchy and it's easy to spell when drunk.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I like.
Are you going to add “Where’s Dave Duncan/How’s Zambrano doing/Seattle!” ? Not sure if that fit with the glossary rules.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
that's already in the glossary.
you just have to look for it. it’s not explained at all.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Oh, okay, I just skimmed it
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
it's a good meme
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
thank you.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
handegg
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
negatory
pre-existing internet meme.
the glossary is VEB-specific.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
did you just smack him with a ruler?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I occasionally use metric
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
naughty yadi
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the Who is Chase Utley? meme. I’m not even sure how to describe that one.
I dunno if it’s QUITE reached meme status yet. I’ve been on here pretty constantly the last couple of weeks and I think I’ve only seen it twice.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
agreed
I’m considering it because it’s older than the last two weeks. it just re-emerged.
of course, its meme-health depends on how much people forget Chase Utley, so this is a tough one…
it’s just unusual because we don’t usually stump for a guy who isn’t in our division, doesn’t really kill us that much, and is on a team we’ve no great love for.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
"it's meme health depends..."
now there’s a catch-22
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that's the one.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the circle of life continues
many moves being made on the Stove….
are we going to make a new post ?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
what moves?
the only thing happened today was mini me got traded right?
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
yeah, it's all above
the Mariners are also eyeing a lot of the guys we want.
I suppose Bryce Harper passing his GED is … interesting.
(Mostly I was wondering if there’ll be a fresh HS post.)
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
it's over 600 posts to i say if you want one yadi2, by golly you go make one
and we’ll all follow you, follow you to hot stove number two freedom
so other than mini me there’s just moar rumors right?
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
damnit i forgot about Albert's BFF going to Philly as well
also Dick Enberg is taking over the play by play for the Padres. which is fantastic news, he’s one of my favorite play by play guys
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
I'm busy
with poetry
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
nope, mets signed Henry Blanco but still want Bengie, Braves signed Saito
Saltalamacchia is hurt, Bryce Harper passed his GED (early) allowing him to play jr college ball, etc.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I have been nexdef'd
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
but only partly
that can’t be officially nexdef’d.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
man i wish there was a good mexician restaurant around me
i’m am 6ly jonesing for some good mexician
or a good chinese food place. ohio restaurants 6ly blow. the only thing out here are chains
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
good thing im in socal, there are not a shortage of any type of restaurant here
with the huge exception of midwest BBQ. I would kill for a snoot sandwich and every time i come home for some reason i dont get my fix
that never gets old.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
Cards interested in Vicente Padilla
Leach says to not look into it greatly, and I don’t see the team trying to go after him.
One player I’m surprised the Cards aren’t interested in is Marco Scutaro. He hit .282 last year, hitting 12 HR and had 60 RBIs. He also had a .379/.409/.788 line last season. He plays 2nd, short and 3rd, the kind of versatility the Cards would like to have.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
More from Leach
Leach just posted an article on his blog saying the Cards might match up with Padilla but not for multiple years and not immediately.
Seems like agent driven news to me.
Lankford made Cardinal baseball in the 90s watchable
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 3, 2009 8:25 PM EST reply actions
just ate some arby's
I know, you are all jealous
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I have a real hankerin
for a White Chocolate shake from Steak n’ Shake.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Schlotzsky's
I will drive 350+ miles roundtrip for a Texas Schlotzsky’s or a Chicken Pesto Sourbread Pizza. Actually I end up getting both, eat the pizza then and the sammich later. (It’s technically a business trip, just extended to get my fix.)
I’ve driven 40 miles out of my way to get Sonic. I’d go even farther for some BD’s Mongolian BBQ. I go 35 miles north & cross the border into ’Sconsin to make my semi-monthly pilgrimage to Hardees. Not that they are really that amazing, but I have a tendency to like restaurants that either go out of business or just leave the area. Like the little restaurant down the street that sold “perfect” biscuits & gravy (enough to fill a 12-inch plate) for $1.99, and closed three months after I discovered it.
Conversely, I can get Arby’s nearly anytime I want it, although the ones around here could fuck up ice cubes.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
I must really be living in fast food heaven then.
We have almost anything you could want within 50 miles of my house. Most within 12.
I never knew anybody that would drive 35mi to eat at Hardee’s. Where do you get the Schlotzsky’s? If you don’t mind my asking.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
You live by an In n' Out Burger?
You’re an lucky lucky man
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
if i could live in a in n out, i would
and i’ve never even had them yet
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
you'd be disappointed
seriously, they are the most overrated restaurant in the history of overrated restaurants. They basically serve the vanilla ice cream of burgers. I can’t remember the last time i even considered going to one. SNS, rally’s, hardees/carl’s jr, even mcdonalds make better burgers than in and out, and there are dozens of mom and pop places that blow them away within a mile of any in and out i’ve ever been to. The only thing in and out does better is fresh lettuce (and sexual innuendo). but in and out lettuce etc is awful compared to the non-chain places, if that’s what you want.
I’m completely amazed by the cult following they have, especially in socal, where anything you want is a 5 minute drive away.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
you've said this before, and once again a little part of me just died
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
They're the best chain burger I've had
granted that may have been because a plane ride was involved, but still
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
They
cut their fries fresh too, which I’m a big fan of — they taste a lot better that way.
I agree that their basic burgers really aren’t anything special, but they taste a lot better than any Hardee’s burger I’ve ever had.
FWIW, when I want a good burger, I go to Fuddruckers. Best. Burger. Evar.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
most are around $10
but it’s not like I can go to the supermarket and get a 1/2 pound of buffalo chuck for cheap either.
My wife’s sister is married a guy that owns Angus cattle, THAT’S some good ground beef — I just don’t feel like grilling in December or January.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
last time i ate at fud's i puked for a week
that was 15 years ago & i haven’t been back since
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
That's one of the almosts. Dammit
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Bloomington, IL
I live in Waukegan, but in my job we partner with a company in Pontiac. Bloomington is a little further down the highway. Always try to stop there when I’m travelling down to Missouri.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
The ice cubes go on top of the bun right?
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
mmmmmm Schlotzsky's.
I was so thrilled to discover there is one about 15 minutes from here.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
the nearest hardee's is 45min from me
i just can’t make myself drive that far for fast food
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
the nearest hardeesfor me is 8 minutes away
I laugh at your misfortunes, ha ha ha
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
It's ok...
You probably weigh 90 pounds less by avoiding the Monster Burger…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Wait... you're south and somewhat close to Wiscy but there are no Schlotzsky's within 350 miles?
Where are you?
Clarification
350 mile round trip = 175 miles each way. I live in Waukegan and the restaurant is in Bloomington.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
I recently discovered this place called Pickles on Euclid in the Central West End
Anybody know if it’s a chain or a local place? It was quite good.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Interesting
Maybe I’ll just bit the bullet and do a Google search. Internet forums have made me so lazy…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Completely OT
Because I mentioned the White Chocolate shake above… I went to the SNS website to see how many locations there were around me to make sure there wasn’t a closer one I was forgetting about… Only to find out a large majority of them aren’t open 24 hours… How the hell is that even an option??? My mind is completely blown. http://www.steaknshake.com/states/ill.asp <—- proof I’m not making this crap up. Since my first reaction if someone told me SNS wasn’t 24 hours would be to call them a liar.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Wow. I have never seen one closed.
Glad I don’t live near one that does.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
maybe it's the crime.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
All that I'm concerned about
are in the NW suburbs of Chicago… where they have crime, but it consists of traffic offenses.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Just for shits and giggles I would love to have a Whattaburger again.
It’s been about eight years since the last time I was in Texas.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 3, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Most of them not in the Chicago area
are 24 hours. For some reason people in the suburbs don’t get hungry in the middle of the nite.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I meant the St. Louis area's.
Sorry. We have one here and it’s all the way in Greenville so I don’t go often.
I mean Webster’s and Kirkwood’s and the one on Lindbergh and the one near Shrewbury but not quite in it and Maplewood’s. All of those are open 24 hours. I know from experience. Those are all in St. Louis suburbs. People in Chicago don’t get hungry late at night, weirdos.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
one moar reason to hate that town
i have no idea how chitown, tackle box & the others survive up there
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
We're too full off of Portillo's
for late nite Steak n’ Shake runs.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
On foxsports.com...
Jon Paul “The Angel” Morosi is reporting that Figgins will likely land in Seattle on a four-year deal “worth in excess of $30 million.”
We need to offer 4/36.
MB for LF in 2010!
I feel VEB requires this picture.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
sweet I'm buying one right now
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
only $60, I'm buying two!!
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
that looks like a right handed Walrus
and here i am, outta bourbon, outta brownies, and low on bacon
what did i do to anger you? why must you hurt me yadi2?
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
perhaps these band-aids will cure your pain
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
by CodyG on Dec 4, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
mmmm.... refreshing
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
or this?
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Holy crap
It’s pictures like this that make life worth living.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
now i almost feel bad for all those things i've been saying about you
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
oh and here are some bacon brownies
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
this will solve all your problems
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
by CodyG on Dec 4, 2009 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I just love the pants part of this
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Oh yeah...
again… sounds like part of a Gaffigan routine.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
That part was pretty funny.
However I am now even more concerned for the single male population.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
As you probably should be
especially those who hang out on the webernets… I mean wait no damnit… YES I’M AWESOME…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
WE can handle ourselves just fine without your fancy soaps and laundry
we have bacon!!!
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
HOT grease. mmmmmm.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 6:22 AM EST up reply actions
You need to stop causing trouble
we love bacon in Albertofstan…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I'm guessing Albertofstan isn't kosher
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and what was you choice? A salad?
ha ha ha ha ha
it’s funny because a salad isn’t bacon
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Chicken.
Or turkey.
You know what sounds good now? Culpepper’s Chicken Wings.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
That white chocolate shake
really hit the spot for me.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
this really hits the spot
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
You sir are giving gdm
a run for his money at the top spot in the awesome picture power rankings.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
and in fashion time, might I add.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
How the hell is this not green?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
I did my part.
but I suggest not everyone who frequents this blog has insomnia…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Dude you are 8 years younger than I am and I could read it.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
hmmm you are possible very vulnerable
quick click this link
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Gotcha, a plausible excuse.
I don’t blame you it’s 2:30 there.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
i thought you lived in so illinois, it's 135 there
out here on the east side it’s 235
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
So that makes Kirksville
about 56? Wait I did that wrong.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I didn't know...
I was trying to do relative temp… and failed apparently
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
You're sounding like my mom...
Every time I go home I feel like I’m sitting inside the machine when I try to use it.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
an old co-worker
once brought in choinko, his version of chocolate covered bacon. it actually didn’t taste too bad
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 4, 2009 2:24 AM EST up reply actions
For some reason
that sounds like it should be in a Jim Gaffigan routine.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
hot pockets
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
will this help?
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
god I love this country
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
KICK ASS!!!
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
OMG ANDI!!!!!!!!
i’ve had that pic all week waiting to debut it as my new avatar! now it’s ruined!
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
That's funny because a friend sent it to me at work
and I immediately thought “When is the soonest I could use this on gdm?”
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I even used the totally lazy, wrong way to blow up the picture so it's all blurry
just for you.
You’re welcome!!
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Nice
posting pictures from my hometown of Des Moines. I haven’t been to Daytona’s restaurant in quite a while come to think of it.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Awesomest picture ever?
Or… Totally Awesomest Picture Evar!!??
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It reminds me of Todd Zeile a little bit.
Or one of those fairly non-descript white guys with dark hair. Maybe Mabry too.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Mo needs to start signing some relievers before the braves take them all
Can he at least attempt Dotel? Sure we could sign a closer like soriano, but almost every closer is a type A.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Something tells me
the Braves aren’t going to be signing Dotel. Call it intuition….
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
JOhn Smoltz isn't
Dotel’s a bit wild. I guess he wouldn’t be too bad for <=$3m, but I think he might get more than that. I think I prefer Calero and Springer.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
OT Rant:
If you currently reside in a Dry Residence Hall or have friends who reside in a dry residence hall do NOT have a party in your room. It is needless. The RA does not want to deal with you. Go somewhere else. For example if you, I don’t know, have a friend who lives off campus in an apartment which I’m thinking is bigger than a dorm room go there. It’s more fun that way I promise. Thank you. That is all.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
It's cheaper too.
And we are probably living in the cottage like places. It’s called the retreat. They have them all over. I thin there is one in Columbia but I’m not positive.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Smart woman.
I’m glad I never had to deal with the bullshit of college dorms.
(but still regret signing up to deal with the bullshit of marine barracks.)
College dorms depend on the people there
I had two cool floors and RAs who just kind of let us do what we wanted as long as we were smart about it. You can get a bunch of snitches and RAs who want to ‘bust perps’ and it all falls apart really quickly.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
This is true.
I don’t care what people do as long as they’re not dumb enough to make it obvious and get caught.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Does this mean you are the RA?
Or just someone who had to deal with the fallout?
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
The RA.
There was a stupid douchebag too. If I see him again, he better watch himself.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I can sort of relate...
I was a desk clerk… and we had to go on rounds. I always let things slide unless they were excessively stupid cause I didn’t want to fill out paperwork. Granted it wasn’t a dry building.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
This is a freshman dorm.
They were being extremely loud and finals are next week so plenty of people are studying and sleeping and it was just rude.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I always had the
don’t make me come back again here approach to things. But then again I hate paperwork.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Nope
I’d call the RA to take care of the problem… the problem was above my pay grade.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Some people I worked with
got yelled at for taking a bat on rounds… Chainsaw would probably have gotten me fired.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
If they're like us
it’s probably above theirs too but that’s what they signed up for. I am not a disciplinarian. I’m a “I’ll help you with whatever you need” person. For example during this “bust” I at one point said “Hey I like your dress.” And then later joked with one of them about the stupidity of the Gamecock in the room.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I didn't want to go in alone
because there were guys and I’m not that large. So I got my very unafraid friend who happened to be on duty tonight and she did this last year so she always fills out IR’s. My plan was to have them dump it out and say this is a warning, next time it’s an IR.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
My real
shining moment on rounds was walking by an open door. Hearing chug it chug it. Seeing a girl downing a bottle of Bud. Knocking on the door and telling them to keep it down and close the door. That the next person to walk by with a badge may not be so understanding.
In hindsight I should have written them up for drinking shitty beer.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
We dumped out 2 cans of Busch Lite.
Seriously guys? Gross.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You said they were freshmen...
think how out of it you were last year… You can’t be expected to drink good beer… when you give a 20 to some bum you get an 11 pack of whatever he can skim the most off the top of…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Not college beer.
And I’m not getting in trouble for beer either. When I turn 21 next year I will order a good beer somewhere and see if I like not nasty beer.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You got to drink a bunch of shitty beer
before you can appreciate the truly amazing stuff… granted I went to school in Champaign where they let you into the bars at 19 and expect you not to drink. And I did my fair share of drinking shitty beer. So needless to say underage drinking isn’t exactly harshly punished there. You pay your fine if you get popped and move on with your life.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
No.
I’d rather not. I only have a year left I can wait.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
In Champaign you only really got caught if you were stupid
When I was underage I was always at the back of the bar so you could see the cops come rolling in. And I also only went to quieter parties that weren’t high on the cops radar. But like I said… Champaign makes it pretty easy on people. Not sure how hard they are down south.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Oh yeah.
We have those rules. Rule 1: If you absolutely have to go to Sigma Chi go early and leave by 11:30. Rule 2: Next hit up AGR but be out of there by 1 at the latest. Rule 3: Lambda Chi’s the best bet, you can stay there all night but you should probably get home around 2 because as we all know Nothing good happens after 2 AM.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I avoided all things greek like the plague
They seemed to attract all the douche bag suburb kids… people I really wanted no part of hanging with.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I don't really like frat boys.
But it really is all there is to do down here unless you know athletes because the bars actually are strict.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
That's the beauty of Champaign...
nothing to do, but the bars let you in at 19 by law… In fact that may be a founding principle of Albertofstan.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I have never had anything good happen to me after 2.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
2 is when I start
seriously, I’m calling people right now trying to find out whats happening
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
That's one of the nice things about Chicago
I’ve found a liquor store open til 4 and a bar open til 4… nice to have options like that.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
it's probably good for my liver
ohio is so strick about liquor. i’d be drunk 24/7/365. if only to make the tears taste less bitter
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
I'm a proud resident of south st. louis
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
lindenwood park
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
i've never had anything happen to me after 2
zip, zero, nadda, goose egg
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Someday you'll find the right girl
and all of that will change.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
strip clubs are like frat houses
but douchier
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
Whomever the bastard-coated bastard was
that invented AXE should be dowsed withit until they can no longer stand the smell of it. That shit gives me a headache worse than anything else.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 3:36 AM EST up reply actions
they had only one good smell
and it was called voodoo & they canceled it a few years ago
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Same.
I smell and automatically stop breathing because in middle school they sprayed it so much the air was just liquid.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Middle school?
Well that explains it, it was designed for people that don’t have to shave yet.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I always thought more of a potpourri
strange
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
i have never been to the Strip Club
without coming in with girls. It is always the girls idea to go to the strip club.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 4, 2009 3:19 AM EST up reply actions
I was playing trivia with a friend last nite
and she was trying to convince me that a strip club on a Wednesday nite was a good idea…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
If you were in St. Louis
I’d say take her to the club on the east side
and leave her there
problem solved
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
That just seems
excessively cruel… like broke you and your special lady up only to then turn around and not put out cruel retribution.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
And, generally
more naked ladies, unless it’s rush week.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Not where I went to school it wasn't
My buddies and I lived at a house on the corner of frat row and the street that led back to dorms for two years in college. We would literally sit on the front porch with a keg of beer from 6-9 AM to watch the “Walk of Shame’s” during Fall Rush, Blowout, and Greek Week. High entertainment from a group of people who couldn’t stand frat kids at all.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Fraternity rush isn't dry.
I thought you meant sorority.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
This was a bit before
digital cameras became ubiquitous. Nowadays we’d just set up a video camera in the window and sleep in.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
This is kind of bad logic IMO.
I don’t have to have nasty food to appreciate good food. Good food is good food and I assume good beer is good beer.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
The idea of a drunk cow
makes me smile for some reason.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Ain't that the truth.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
You're from that old movie Alien Nation,
aren’t you?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 4, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
you'd probably like
that leinie’s berry-flavored beer
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yep
but it says beer right there on the label. (my sister drinks that, and she’s a teacher, and could probably pose as clemsongirl on this site without anyone noticing…well, except for the clemson and indians/sizemore references – that’d be a dead giveaway, but in innocence/sweetness/perhaps pollyannish quotient…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
The 21 year old was in the room.
He bought it and then drank it himself. And last year when I had my first sip of nasty beer I carried the can around with me the rest of the night and didn’t have any more. They had nothing else so I ha dno choice and there was no way I was subjecting myself to that awfulness.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You are 20... and have never tried a good beer... this is interesting to me.
have you ever been drunk before?
No.
I’ve only been offered beer at college so it’s all been cheap.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
May have helped last nite
Sorry I’m a jackass couldn’t resist. time + tragedy = comedy?
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
That would not have helped.
I would have done stupid things I regretted later and we still would have lost and looked like idiots doing it. Not better. I’m still not over it. I did not watch any college bball tonight because it still hurts.
On the plus side they changed our distribution back to normal because no one comes to games anymore.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You've obviously never drank your problems away
it works until the next morning… Also could you guys make that center court paw a bit bigger… You can’t let Kansas out center court logo you…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Yeah but then the next morning
which starts at 8:30 is terrible. And there are probably tears. And plus I had a staff meeting immediately after the game so I couldn’t really get drunk before that.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Meetings of any kind are better
with a couple boozes in you.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
You've never been to a Manning staff meeting.
And Ja’Von the beautiful mauldin RA was at this one too. No alcohol needed.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
wow.
I was partying at my sisters school (illinois State) when I was a freshman in high school. Your story seems so strange and exotic to me. So… you just… don’t drink?
I drink some.
If I’m out and they have party juice or something. Or wine coolers. I like wine coolers. I don’t go out much because most of close friends don’t go out. I’m working on that next semester though. This semester was boring.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
haha wine coolers
All I can think of is Adam Carolla using that as an example in a lot of his stuff.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I imagine for a small girl in college
social drinking is a different experience, than say…
for a marine
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
We should set up a VEB pay per view...
Help buy us some windbreakers or something.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
my first Marine Corps Ball
I drank a straight fifth of it on top of some beers and vodka shots. It was the worst hangover of my life.
Goldschlagerr, Fuck Yeah!
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
Starry Night is where it is at
And I thank the good folks at the Isle of Capri in Booneville for (indirectly) providing me with several of them tonight.
Not afraid to nitpick
van Gogh?
I don’t know what a “starry night” is, or how one is provided them indirectly
spill
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
Via craps, one acquires money
And then tells the bartender to provide Goldschlager + Jager shots with said acquired money.
Not afraid to nitpick
props
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
I got one of those on St. Pat's
at the bar where I knew everyone working behind the bar that nite. They had to go to the liquor room to get the Goldschlagger. When they got back I held the shot up to the light… “To make sure the gold was in there. Because a lot of people get up in the morning and piss excellence. I want to get up and shit gold.” I don’t think I paid for a drink the rest of the nite after having all the staff in stitches.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I didn't drink til I got to college
so I can see it.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I only had one friend that didn't drink in high school
(he started drinking senior year spring break, actually) and he had the hardest time of all of my friends adjusting to college life. Mainly b/c drinking was still “new” and “fun” to him.
Mine was mainly
that none of my friends in high school drank. Never seemed like the thing to do, but then again we all had plans to get the hell out of that shithole and never look back. Some of us have succeeded better than others…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
yeah our high school was kind of one long party
I’m of the rare percentage that is still friends (likes talks to weekly and vacations with sometimes) ten to twelve high school friends (and some grade school friends, too) and e-mails/texts/book faces sixty or so others eleven years after graduation. We are very lucky.
I have a couple friends I kind of keep in touch with
One I go to Illinois bowl games with… 2 games in 8 years… so there’s that.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
That was not drunk.
I had one of those little juice bottles half full of cranberry juice and half full of rasberry rum maybe and drank over like two hours. No way I was drunk.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Sounds like someone has a problem
she’s trying to deny…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
My friend was drunk.
She threw up all over my other friend and we spent the night cleaning up after her.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Always fun taking care of people who
haven’t figured out when to stop, or didn’t care to. Luckily I have the built in defense of getting really talkative when I’m drunk and forgetting I’m drinking… makes it hard for me to hurl. Also I drink beer so sheer volume it would take to make me hurl off beer is a feat I’ve never been able to best.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
i bet the vast majority could not tell the difference between Busch and Bud Light
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 4, 2009 2:58 AM EST up reply actions
The vast majority can't tell the difference between Nat Light and Bud Light
I had a party last year with Natty Light kegs and told everyone it was Bud Light just to test people. ONE person was suspicious. It’s all shitty beer wrapped up in different marketing.
Not afraid to nitpick
It totally is
All that light beer tastes the same.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 4, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
I am the other spectrum
I like the taste of booze. My drink of choice at the bar is a Well Vodka on the Rock double with a twist of the lime. Goes down like water.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 4, 2009 3:03 AM EST up reply actions
I can tell Natty Light
it has a greasy feeling to it…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Blind test yourself
It’s closer than you think. It’s different…….but I’m not entirely sure Bud Light is actually any better. BLight is just usually fresher for whatever reason.
Not afraid to nitpick
I try to stay away from all AB products
if I have the choice. If I have a beer or a case I wake up with a splitting headache the next day that hangs around like a stale fart.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
AMERICA!!!
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Baseball!!!
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
I see you went with one that had pictures
I chose stationary… so people could focus on the words
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Here are the lyrics, focus on these
America…
America…
America, FUCK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother fucking day yeah,
America, FUCK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
America, FUCK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
America, FUCK YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
it�s the dream that we all share; it�s the hope for tomorrow
FUCK YEAH!
McDonalds, FUCK YEAH!
Wal-Mart, FUCK YEAH!
The Gap, FUCK YEAH!
Baseball, FUCK YEAH!
NFL, FUCK, YEAH!
Rock and roll, FUCK YEAH!
The Internet, FUCK YEAH!
Slavery, FUCK YEAH!
FUCK YEAH!
Starbucks, FUCK YEAH!
Disney world, FUCK YEAH!
Porno, FUCK YEAH!
Valium, FUCK YEAH!
Reeboks, FUCK YEAH!
Fake Tits, FUCK YEAH!
Sushi, FUCK YEAH!
Taco Bell, FUCK YEAH!
Rodeos, FUCK YEAH!
Bed bath and beyond (Fuck yeah, Fuck yeah)
Liberty, FUCK YEAH!
White Slips, FUCK YEAH!
The Alamo, FUCK YEAH!
Band-aids, FUCK YEAH!
Las Vegas, FUCK YEAH!
Christmas, FUCK YEAH!
Immigrants, FUCK YEAH!
Columbine, FUCK YEAH!
Demarcates, FUCK YEAH!
Republicans (republicans)
(fuck yeah, fuck yeah)
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Side note
One cannot read about US Nuclear Weapons and not think “Fuck yeah”.
Not only do we have an entire fleet of basically undetectable submarines capable of firing dozens of missiles each with multiple warheads, and not only do we have an entire fleet of bombers (some of which are stealth) capable of dropping the biggest explosions in history, we also just for shits have thousands of hardened silo sites capable of launching within a minute.
Not afraid to nitpick
Don't forget--we also have the F22
Well, a few of them anyway… sad…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Did you know
that we can make over 50 UAV Predator Drones for the cost of one F22, and that the UAV’s are a much more effective weapon for our armed forces because they can react quicker, they put fewer people in harms way, and they can stay aloft for 5 times as long? They also have a lot lower maintenance and upkeep costs and can take off from much farther away. It’s a much, much better program and is probably the shift that we’re going to see take place for the wars that we’re going to fight in the future.
The F-22 program was alive simply because of the jobs that the program created. This is what Eisenhower was talking about when he said “beware the Military/Industrial Complex”.
Not that the F-22 isn’t the coolest fucking plane alive……
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
"Not that the F-22 isn’t the coolest fucking plane alive……"
Yeah, that’s pretty much it. I don’t know nearly enough about the arguments for or against to comment on whether killing it was a good idea, I just think it’s sad that such a kick ass object is no longer being made.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
comparing the predator to the F-22
is like comparing a bulldozer to a tank, and then saying the bulldozer wins because it moves more dirt. That’s totally unfair tyo the tank, because they have different missions. When the enemy can’t shoot back, the predator makes a fine dump truck for bombs, but while they can shoot back you need the F-22’s and F-35’s and B-2’s to hit the hard targets and create the permissive environment for the dump truck to operate. Without complete air supremacy, which is the F-22’s mission, the predator becomes one of the easiest planes to shoot down in history.
A better comparison would be the predator to the F-16 or the A-10, although both of those platforms have the ability to defend themselves and the SA to allow the plane to exit the threat environment if engaged.
OTOH, the F-22 is basically obsolete and should be replaced ASAP- and there’s a very good chance it’ll be the last manned fighter the Air Force buys.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
last manned fighter...
wow, never thought about that.
i had a very close uncle who was a fighter pilot in WW2, shot down and 2 years a POW. became a colonel and military attache in venezuela, then retired to gulf coast to develop real estate in gulfport/biloxi, miss.
i myself attended tulane in new orleans much for proximity purposes, although there were other unequal factors (as i could have done those things elsewhere) and he would loan me a car to use whenever and i could park wherever because he had POW license plates that i thoroughly abused – literally, i could park on sidewalks in the french quarter.
he was quite a character and parked atop many a sidewalk himself.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
technically I guess you'd say the F-35 will be the last "fighter"
although the F-35 isn’t really an air superiority fighter and doesn’t have anything near the air to air capability of the F-22.
Anyway, it’s not really theory; it’s pretty much the thinking at the highest levels of the military, IE, Admiral Mullen, Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has said that exact thing while testifying to Congress.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
well, you know much more
about aircraft than i.
i know i hate flying now – seems like that’s all i used to do – but loved it in the day when it involved my uncle shuttling me and some buddies between new orleans and gulfport in his five-seater.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
this sounds like some set-up for War Games II
where in the future there are no fighter pilots and they have to find the PS7 gamers to save the world.
Or mabye that’s Last Starfighter. Damn 80s.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Stealth, perhaps?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 5, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
So you argue against my point...
OTOH, the F-22 is basically obsolete and should be replaced ASAP- and there’s a very good chance it’ll be the last manned fighter the Air Force buys.
….and then make the same conclusion?
I’m not comparing the two, I’m simply saying from a cost-benefit analysis that the military would rather have 50 Predators than one F-22. They already have a shit-load of F/A-18 SuperHornets and B-2’s to work with to take out hard targets, and those two planes have been proven to be more effective than the F-22 at these tasks as well.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
sigh
Point is, the F-22 is an air superiority platform.The B-2 and predator are not. Your statement was that the predator COULD do what the F-22 does, and that is absurd. The predator can’t even carry air to air missiles, at this point. Additionally, we lost a quarter of our predator fleet in 3 years over Iraq and Afghanistan WITHOUT an enemy shooting back at them. There’s no way we’d be able to use the predator on day one of a major war without taking tremendous losses.
Regarding the part of my post that you quoted, the F-22 was designed in the 80’s. A new fighter, manned or unmanned, is going to be required in the near future, and it’s probably going to be an unmanned fighter. However, that fighter is NOT the predator (i feel silly even having to explain that).
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
the simple fact is, as long as things keep going this way
the military won’t get even half of what they need to win a war with sea turtles. those in charge aren’t concerned about winning, only being well liked.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Yes
It’s so reassuring* that we put that arsenal at the hands of an elected civilian politician when setting off 12-15 of any of those weapons would essentially mean the end of the world. We elected a guy who couldn’t run a baseball team and put him in charge of that nuclear stockpile, while allowing him to have a vice president who is one of the few people in the world who might actually think about using a nuclear weapon.
That scares the shit out of me more than it makes me think “fuck yeah”, regardless of your politics.
*I’m not a believer in the theory of “Mutually Assured Destruction”. Anyone who would plan to fly planes into buildings in the name of Allah doesn’t seem like the type of person who’s too concerned about the end of the world. I also don’t trust the nuclear country being attacked to not overreact. The U.S. overreacted after 9-11 by invading two different countries without an exit strategy for either….and we’re still fighting those wars today. I find it hard to believe that the next guy won’t consider using a nuclear weapon to avoid this in a time of crisis.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
No One in the Right Mind is Gonna Use Nukes These Days...
…when chemical and biological weapons are soooo much cheaper and easier to make and distribute.
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Why, then,
is it so hard to get a non-proliferation treaty signed with anyone. They want the threat of MAD, and in a time of national crisis for a country like Pakistan, I’m not so sure that they wouldn’t use one. That’s what worries me. I also get concerned when people like Khan are out selling nuclear secrets — if can sell the secrets on how to make them, someone can certainly tip off a terrorist group on how to steal them and then set one off.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
problem with non-proliferation treaty
is verifying compliance.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Oh, for sure
but what MooCow was saying is that nobody in their right mind would USE one, and that just isn’t true and is a really dangerous assumption to make.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Chemical and biological weapons aren't terribly effective
compared to nukes.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2009 6:52 AM EST up reply actions
hard targets vs. soft targets
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I am going to see A Christmas Carol at the Fox next Thursday with my wife.
FUCK YEAH!
(doesn’t work as well.)
Don't get shot
FUCK YEAH!!!
meh that wasn’t really what I was looking for either…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Some dude shot his kid while cleaning his handgun a few blocks from us tonight.
People are fucking dumb.
Who cleans a loaded handgun?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Is this a trick question?
A loaded handgun cleaner, of course.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
ray lankford
mentioned in fanhouse article on barry larkin HOF candidacy
forget who i had this discussion with but, per the article, bill james calls larkin one of the “10 most complete players in history” (whatever that means) and ranks him as the 6th greatest SS of all-time, behind honus wagner, arkie vaughn, ripken, yount, and banks.
the author concludes that larkin (like edgar martinez) comes up just short. obviously i disagree with him, but he seems to have higher standards than me.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
so
bill james doesn’t think the 6th greatest SS (by his own measurements) should be in the hall of fame? Who the hell should be, then?
sorry
james didn’t write the article. he’s quoted by the author.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the author
sorta compares larkin offensively to a ray lankford while at the same time, in terms of WAR. to tony gwynn. a little confusing, but i read it pretty quickly – headline in the right margin of VEB home caught my eye.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I feel like most baseball fans don't understand the concept of money
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
I blame credit cards, holliday shopping (non-cardinal division), the shamwow, Bill DeWitt, and the national debt
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
The ShamWow is what got us into this mess in the first place!
But [insert convenient political opponent here] wants to increase ShamWow’s role in the economy… that won’t put American’s back to work!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
oddly
it does seem to counterbalance them
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
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