Plan De off the Table
by DanUpBaby on Dec 29, 2009 6:00 AM EST
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PrintI never liked Mark DeRosa as much as I thought I would. Some of it's his fault—wrist injury or not, he was just bad as a Cardinal, and not in an attractive way—and some of it isn't—he couldn't be the Super Sub once left field and the platoon problem at second base were fixed in completely satisfactory ways. But however those reasons come together to form the pie chart of my distaste for Mark DeRosa, I'm glad the Cardinals were not the team to mistakenly give him two years as a starting third baseman. It wouldn't have been an awful move, but it would have been a lateral one. It would have been a case of spending Holliday's Millions for little reason beyond having spent them.
But DeRosa never seemed like a good fit for the Cardinals' Christmas money anyway; Freese is more likely to stick at third than Allen Craig is as the lone starter in left field, and since Craig is right-handed an outfield/third base platoon based on DeRosa's consistently above-average outfield UZR would be a waste of resources. Ideally, losing out on DeRosa, presumptive plan A among the plan Bs for which Mozeliak has kept "lines of communication" open, sets things in motion for the Cardinals; if that motion doesn't lead to Holliday, at least it leads somewhere.
Plan Bay
I haven't had much chance to talk about it, but I like Jason Bay as a backup option, especially as the demands of this second tier of free agents seem to have trended down. The main reason for my Bay optimism is this: it seems fair to infer, from his continued unemployment and the failure of several desperate, well-heeled teams to give five or six years to this model of offensive consistency, that his terrible defense is finally priced into the bidding for his services, if not his own concept of his worth.
Of course it only takes one exec who isn't doing that to spoil everybody else's collusive broth. But if the rest of the GMs can manage to keep Omar Minaya distracted, Bay's relatively short-term demands —I can't see him turning down an eight year deal, or getting one—are an attractive proposition to a team looking to juggle a lot of plates at once. It keeps the Cardinals looking competitive in the eyes of Albert Pujols, whom it frees up long-term space to resign; it supplements a core with several pieces in their prime without sacrificing so much long-term freedom of movement.
His defense is bad, and it will probably stay that way. Of late it is, if you believe the PBP metrics, somewhere in the Chris Duncan neighborhood. That makes him overrated, in the sense that he's closer to the good version of Chris Duncan than he is Matt Holliday, but it doesn't keep him from being a significant update over the Xavier Nady/Jermaine Dye class of sub-$10 million options. For no more than four years and no more than $15 million, a guy like Jason Bay would make for an expensive but possibly worthwhile finish-line push for an otherwise well-constructed team. It's the contractual equivalent of the Matt Holliday trade; it might not be supportable in terms of the wins the Cardinals would get over the life of the deal, but if Mozeliak thinks they need those three wins a year, and that this is the only way to get them, it doesn't matter how much cheaper the one and two win options are.
(And on a selfish and possibly useless note, I like that I know why Jason Bay is a terrible defender. With corner outfielders, in particular, I'm often struck by how terrible a scout I'd be, according to UZR. Players who have apparently always been terrible might look perfectly acceptable in my eyes, while Matt Holliday is apparently a plus outfielder. But with Bay it's easy: he got hurt, and since then he hasn't been the same defensive player. That's good, honest bad defense. A man can live with that, especially with hope springing eternal that might come to Spring Training with his knee in the best shape of its life.)
Over at Play a Hard Nine Erik has some low-hanging fruit ideas of his own, and if nothing else they offer a fair example of just how low that fruit can go—better than replacement level, but not much better. His favorite option is Gabe Gross and—well, he suggests Shelley Duncan, but I can't imagine John Mozeliak willfully getting himself into that mess again. Gabe Gross and a right-hander who hits approximately as well as Shelley Duncan.
I can't quite get on board with it; I have no reason to believe it, but I'm kept up at night by the idea that players like Gross and Randy Winn, who have remarkable corner outfield numbers in the PBP systems but are measured indifferently in center, are the next category of players, like the mythical lefty-masher, to be dismissed as illusory when further statistical analysis is done. It just doesn't make sense to me, pending an intuitive explanation, that some players have a wider gulf between their play in center and left than others.
My favorite cheap option—this should be distinguished from my idea of the best cheap option—is Jack Cust and Allen Craig. Here's why it's my favorite: I love Jack Cust. He is everything that learning about sabermetrics between 2001 and 2003 taught me to love about baseball. He runs like someone who's been shot in stride with a tranquilizer dart; he plays defense like someone who's been tranquilized. But he draws walks in stupendous numbers—143 in his 2006 Ken Phelps AAA valedictory season—and when he makes contact, which is exceedingly rare, he hits long home runs to every field, which is a rare trick for three true outcomes types. He is, in total, Baseball Prospectus 2003, sabermetrics at its most post-Moneyball strident. Defense? The bourgeoisie sop for GMs not fearless enough to sign Manny Ramirez to play shortstop!
Here's why it is, if not the best cheap option, at least a marginally interesting one: Cust has a useful platoon split, an OBP-heavy OPS, and, coming off the worst season of his brief career, looks to be extremely cheap for a player who CHONE projects at .236/.379/.455. A .380 OBP standing in front of Albert Pujols, especially from someone who is a pleasant-surprisingly mediocre baserunner, excites me nearly as much as Matt Holliday's .540 slugging percentage would batting behind him.
There is, of course, the reason he's so cheap: he shouldn't be playing left field, or right field, or first base, or anywhere in the National League. But you have to be trading that money, heretofore earmarked for Matt Holliday, back to yourself for something; in this case, it's the distinctly unpleasant opportunity of watching Jack Cust play left—which if you believe UZR is as awful as, say, watching Chris Duncan clones play left and right field. Keep Craig (or the fifth outfielder, whoever it may finally be) on defense as much as possible, platoon them strictly, and expect to get something close to what DeWitt pays for.
Alternately, hope Matt Holliday is getting discouraged about that Teixeira contract he's been promised.
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WURST!
Plan De off the table? Man, that’s the wurst-case scenario….
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 6:17 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
That is amazing sir...
keep up the good work.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I am so tempted to flag this comment
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
14 is my limit on schnitzengruben!
And twelve hours without a rec is totally unacceptable.
"Yeah, you can write, you can feel, you can think. Whaddaya want, a medal?" - Paul Westerberg
re: Cust
I think he’s become my favourite non-Holliday option too (I’d actually even countenance signing Branyan as a 3B platoon/bench bat), simply because there are SO few impact bats on the free market; with the exception of Holliday and Bay (who I, like you Dan, wouldn’t mind on that mooted 4yr/60m-odd deal, so long as it doesn’t include a no-trade clause). Branyan and Cust remain the only solidly above-average guys (other than the bizarrely CHONE-projected +13 run Shelley Duncan), and they both (esp. Cust) fit our needs: someone left-handed to be the long end of a platoon with Craig (and possibly even Freese).
I feel that Cust’s defence can be somewhat leveraged by using him solely against RHP (he’s really not worth any PA at all against lefties) and by using late-inning defensive subs. Consider this:
CHONE projects Cust will be worth 21 runs above average with the bat, in 573 PAs (i.e. nearly full-time use). This seems fair, as it’s assuming a slight bounce-back from his weak 2009 season. However, Cust is barely above average (career) against LHP, so you’d assume that if you trim back the 573 PAs to about 450 (which is the maximum amount he could realistically possibly get if he plays everyday against RHP and is used as a pinch hitter against right-handed relievers when a lefty starts), you’d still project him to be worth in the region of +20 runs above average in that playing time.
Now, Cust is a remarkably awful corner outfielder. If you believe his UZR numbers (which, to me, reflect the I’ve-seen-him-play-with-my-own-eyes reality of his fat ass and slow legs), he’s about 20 runs below average (conservatively, actually, as he’s been slightly worse in 2008 and 2009) in a corner spot over 150 games. However, if he only starts against RHP, you’d expect maybe 110 starts, maximum. He’ll obviously get yanked for a defensive/PH sub if anyone brings in a LOOGY against him, and late in games with close leads, and I don’t expect him to ever field when he’s used as a PH. So perhaps he’ll only play the pro-rated equivalent of 80-90 full games in LF. That means he’ll cost, at worst, about 12-15 runs in the field. I’ll call it 15.
Allen Craig, who’s presumably our starting platoon guy against LHP (and we’ll call him Cust’s defensive sub too) is expected to be roughly defensively average in LF. CHONE projects he’ll be +2 runs above average with the bat in 461 PAs, however, as a platoon option/PH/defensive option, he’ll probably only get 200-250 PAs in LF (maybe a few more as a 3B and RF?). Still, most of those will come against LHP, and he has a roughly regular platoon split – that is, he’s liable to be a solidly above-average hitter of LHP and slightly below-average against RHP. Losing 200 PAs against righties may, therefore, actually IMPROVE his projection to something like (WAG) +5 runs with the bat. That doesn’t seem unreasonable.
So, Cust is +20 with the bat, -15 in the field, and Craig is +5 with the bat and pretty much 0 in the field, add in 20 runs for replacement level and subtract the LF positional adjustment (-7.5, I believe) and you’ve got an above average (somewhere in the ballpark of 2.5 wins) platoon in LF, which is (somewhat importantly) very strong offensively, but overall (thanks to Cust) poor in the field.
A 2-3 win LF with a plus bat and a poor glove – that sounds like Jason Bay to me! The only difference being that bay will cost $15m and 4-5 years, whereas Cust looks likely to sign for one year and something like $5m or so, and Craig is basically free. Erik’s option (Duncan + Gross) looks fine too, and will probably work out somewhat similar (although I prefer to go bat-heavy in LF, just for personal preference, because our offense was so poor last year and I think that having extra OBP/SLG in front of or behind Pujols is a “special case” scenario, as he’s such an outlier in his offensive production). The oft-mentioned Hinske and Church options would be acceptable as well – both are slightly above-hitters vs RHP but don’t quite offer the 3TO destruction that Cust can create.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
Can you put this in graph form?
I think I followed it, but I’m not certain. Also, can we stipulate from now on that when we discuss runs and/or wins, we’ll provide the runs created/lost or wins in parentheses after the other stat?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Small point:
I think – I’m not positive – that the positional adjustment for left field is -2.5. I think -7.5 is for first base.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
C: +10 runs
SS: +7.5 runs
2B/3B/CF: +2.5 runs
LF/RF: -7.5 runs
1B: -12.5
DH: -15
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
It would happen that Tango would decide to reprint it today.
My honest answer here is that I’m not sure which version Fangaphs implements (there’s been several iterations of these adjustments now) but the DH penalty seems harsh in the latest one.
+1.25 C
+0.75 SS
+0.25 2B/3B/CF
-0.75 LF/RF
-1.25 1B
-2.25 DH
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
that's scaled by wins, obv.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
DH's get .5 wins added because it's harder to hit when DHing
So the actual positional adjustment is more like 17.5 runs.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
eh?
it’s harder to hit when DHing
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
players hit worse when they are a DH
than if they were to be stuck at 1B and allowed to stink at defense.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
on what premise?
that they don’t stay warm between half innings or something? Wouldn’t you think staying healthier by avoiding fielding would allow them to hit better?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
It's been shown that players hit historically worse when DHing then when playing the field
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
well
i didn;t think you were lying. i was looking for an explanation
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
where?
on ESPN?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
In The Book
When Tango was developing his positional adjustments. Go to this thread
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/mike_silva_chronicles_part_2_war/#comments
And ask where you showed that DHing negatively effects offense.
(ESPN, wtf?)
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
I read "shown" and thought of tv.
reading is for smart people.
(aren’t they the authority on all things sports?…Joe Morgan thinks so)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Didn't Tango raise the position adjustment for catchers
because of some evidence that catchers hit better when moved to other positions on the field? I seem to recall that as the reason for the increase.
(Also, Fangraphs does in fact follow the second set of adjustments.)
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
So I read that
And I have no clue what Tango is trying to show. It really made no sense to me and had tons of assumptions.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Eh
It just tasted like a burger with a little bit of sweetness to it.
I think I need a better donut… and some frosting.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Try boston creme.
Actually, don’t. That sounds disgusting.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
ascertainment bias?
aren’t DHs generally older players who are injured and/or can’t play the field anymore, and thus likely to have declined somewhat in their hitting anyway? I’m not sure how easy it is to fairly compare “hitting as a DH” vs “hitting as a position player” without introducing some sort of bias…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:41 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure Tango compared players who played both DH and other positions in one season
Meaning if you have a guy who played DH 80 times, and 1B 40 times, you would compare those stats. I doubt he compared multi-year stats.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 30, 2009 5:57 AM EST up reply actions
all he says is that
For DH, I reasoned that a DH is equal to a bad fielding 1B
He doesn’t say he compared anything, just made an assumption, so did he just look at all bad 1B and say those were the status for DHs? There isn’t much to go on there.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Eh.
DeRosa’s been a goner for me since the the end of Game 3. Hope Springs Eternal that the advantages of having him will be replaced by other means.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Reply malfunction.
SBN and I are going to have words.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
No, no, a thousand times no.
If Cust could play outfield at a -15 level, Oakland would have played him there. They had other DH options. But they learned from their mid-season flirtation with putting him in right (much of it during interleague play when they couldn’t use a DH) that he had absolutely no business there.
Cust is a perfect example of why I despise the DH rule.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 29, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Cust was -22 runs per 150 innings in RF last year
If we can ensure he only plays 100 innings in the OF (which is quite a high estimate, I’d say, given he’d only ever be playing vs RHP and won’t play the field as a PH), -15 runs is pretty much what he’d be at. If he only plays 80-90 innings in the field (which, with defensive replacements and platooning, is quite possible), minus 15 is probably actually pretty pessimistic, unless he’s got significantly worse in the field.
Oakland didn’t re-sign Cust because they have absolutely no money to spend and, as you said, he isn’t very good in the field and they seem to be making defense a big priority. Also, they non-tendered him and may very well be intending to offer him a contract anyway (to low-ball what he might’ve got in arby). Yes, he’s bad in the field, but he is an awesome hitter (against RHP, probably one of the top 20 or 30 or so in baseball), and he’s only Chris Duncan/Jason Bay bad (perhaps a tiny shade less mobile than either of those), he’s not quite Adam Dunn…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
do you really think Cust's defensive replacement would be Craig?
I would still be shocked if it were anyone but Schumaker.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
That's great.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Dec 29, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
DOH!
Have to wait until I get home from work to see linky – stupid government cowputers…
:=8(
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Urban Dictionary: Nertlerb
An attention whoring device preferred by urban bovine.
ie. That cow on the internet won’t quit using that stupid “nertlerb” word it made up.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
This is my favourite part....
buy nertlerb mugs, tshirts and magnets
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
How does this have less recs than Albertofstan?
Cmon people…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Luke Scott's actually not that good
I was somewhat surprised today when I looked him up. I quite liked the idea, but he’s actually not that great a hitter. I’d say he’s in the Hinske/Gross bracket (so, to be honest, is Cust) in that they’re all probably league average or just above in LF (esp. in a platoon), some better hitters, some better fielders but Scott will require a legit prospect to sign, whereas the other three are relatively cheap free agents.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, DeRo was just too short for third base
look at that chew in his cheek
they enjoyed his company in the hot tub, though
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
farewell Of the Rose
I’m sure Colby will figure out how to have fun without you
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Isn't it "Of Rose"?
“De La Rosa” is “Of the Rose,” right?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i'm not sure we ever resolved that
we didn’t resolve it by the time they played colorado, that’s for sure, resulting in a small implosion in time-space
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
it's resolved
derosa is of rose
de la rosa is of the rose
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
well it's too late now
some prophet you are
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I'll be the etymology nerd...
but DeRosa isn’t even Spanish. At least not this time.
It’s from the Latin “rosa” meaning rose, so it ought to be “of the rose,” just like “sub rosa” is “under the rose.”
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 29, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
derosa
very well could be spanish
it could also be italian. which would be my guess is the case regarding mark derosa
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I think, and thismay be wrong,
it may mean something like Mark “of Pink” or Pink Mark.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Dec 29, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
p-ders
are acting like mo just let albert walk…
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It's important to remember DeRo:
a) Sucked for us
b) Is coming off of wrist surgery
c) Is old
d) Is really nothing but a floating head.
by Mister Eff on Dec 29, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but but
he’s a leader!
and a good clubhouse presence!
and an elite defender of the gods!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
floating head man!
and he made Colby laugh
I feel only momup’s photography can do this justice
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
but... damn, damn it was fun to tweak cubs fans with that
i’m sure no one is thinking of the optimum time to post a picture of him with the birds-on-the-bat over at BCB…. uh uh, not us.
DeRosa was good for us in one sense. He was one of the only plus-players in the Juice Box carnival ride.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I get so
damned tired of hearing that “He’s such a good clubhouse guy” from some of the media types, as if that someone correlates to wins on the ballfield. Give me league minimum and stick me in the dugout and I will be Mary fucking Poppins.
by Cardsray on Dec 29, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
you can have the pleasure of going to BCB and hearing it, too.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
I'll even
throw in a backrub for Albert in between innings. How’s that for good clubhouse guy???
Yeah
But does dave McKay do it whilst also waving pom poms and telling him he’s the greatest? Does he I didn’t think so.
actually......
though you should probably ask andi_k, she keeps track of those things
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
here it is. more than you ever wanted to know about Dave McKay at first base
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/10/3/1067844/saturday-overflow-thread#22236977
we’re thorough, here at VEB.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
i read that as
“stick me in the donut” like four times and was baffled
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
only if there's bacon involved
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
We Don't Know...
…that being a good clubhouse guy doesn’t correlate to moore wins, just because our current metrics can’t measure it. Just because we cudn’t detect dark matter in the universe had nothing to do with its existence. I personally am inclined to think that such ‘intangibles’ do help, but in very small ways. I have no stats to back this up, of course, but not everything in the universe can be measured or even expressed.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
True Enough.
His pole-dancing antics might be just what our teams needs to loosen up and play winning ball!
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
He may be...
but he’s no Casey Mulligan.
by mynameistyler on Dec 29, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
cause this is THRILLA
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'll see your floating head and raise you a disembodied nose
by mattyp on Dec 29, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You read PD message boards and comments?
I gave that up long ago, on any newspaper site.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Really?
Sounds like the Springfield News-Leader. “Obama’s to blame for this ice. He thinks there’s global warming? WHAT NOW? WHAT NOW, HUH? WHAT NOW?”
by mynameistyler on Dec 29, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
and idiots are everywhere
and political talk brings them out even more
and we have enough idiots here as it is ( including myself)
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
the donut thread is above, MooCow.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Today someone wrote a letter to the editor
thanking a stranger for returning a cell phone. 300 words of column space. Thanks, News-Leader!
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
haha
Duk:
Thanks to a two-year, $12 million dollar deal, Mark DeRosa will be bringing his own brand of Captain America to San Francisco.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
next item
Trevor Cole is a bit more skeptical and isn’t won over by the mere sight of DeRo’s smile.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
per rotoworld
No change on Matt Holliday., no chance on Jason Bay. Zero. None. Underline it.
- Yankees official
This is comforting.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 29, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
like last night, I stopped hearing the chainsaws
that was comforting too
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
They might not need him to make the playoffs, but I don't think that's why they added some
of the players that they have in the past. Anything less than a World Series victory is a failure for the Yankees, and I think adding Holliday would help significantly more in a 7 game series than in a 162 game season.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Probability wise though
it’s probably a wash. He’ll be worth around 4-5 wins over a season, but in the small sample of a playoff series its a total crapshoot. You could make the case that Matsui helped them more in the playoffs than he did in the regular season by that rationale.
FWIW, considering what their marginal cost per win actually is, I think they’re crazy NOT to be signing one, if not both of those guys. This is something that Cameron didn’t look at, but I think is an important part of his analysis. They’re already paying something like 3-4 times what any other team pays per marginal win, so to just stop spending because of expensive marginal wins seems like a crappy argument for not signing someone.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I have no stats to back up what I'm saying, so I can't really go into a long argument.
But I bet the upgrade from Brett Gardner to Matt Holliday in any given playoff at bat is worth a lot to the Yankees. I’m not saying the Yankees need Holliday to win the division, but I am saying that they need all the help they can get in the playoffs. I don’t see how Holliday vs. Gardner is probably a wash.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Players have a funny way of going nuts for short series though
Look at Mark Lemke and David Eckstein’s stats in the 1991 and 2006 World Series. Ridiculous numbers for guys who weren’t much better offensively or worse offensively than Gardner is. Obviously Holliday is the better player, but for a short stretch of games like a playoff series and with the number of bats that they already have, Gardner may be more valuable as a utility outfielder/second leadoff man with his speed and defense than Holliday would be.
Gardner also plays a great defensive CF, and if he were to move to left would be one of the better LF defensively in the game — he might be worth 2 wins just on defense alone in LF. If he puts together another win with the bat, and say a half a win with his speed on the bases, he could be a 3.5 win player hitting the 9th spot of the Yankee lineup with Jeter, Johnson, Tex, and A-Rod hitting behind him.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Wouldn't Eckstein and Lemke be considered improbable.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t more players like Pujols, Holliday, Manny Ramirez, Ortiz (when he was on PEDs), and other great players way more likely to have great postseasons that the Ecksteins of the world. Sure some there will be some outliers, but great offensive players are way more likely to have great offensive postseasons than below average players.
Again I could be wrong, but logically I would think Matt Holliday is more likely to come through in any given AB than Gardner would be. Gardner is basically Schumaker with the bat.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously Holliday is the better player, but for a short stretch of games like a playoff series and with the number of bats that they already have, Gardner may be more valuable as a utility outfielder/second leadoff man with his speed and defense than Holliday would be.
That’s the thing though, he might be more valuable, but the more likely result is that Matt Holliday will be better than Gardner in a short series. In fact, Holliday is just as likely to out-play Gardner in a 3 game series as he is in any 3 game stretch of the regular season. I don’t think the fact that the playoffs is a small sample size is a good argument for not signing Matt Holliday. He adds just as much ability to the team in the post-season as he does in the regular season.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:44 AM EST up reply actions
I don't buy this logic
but the more likely result is that Matt Holliday will be better than Gardner in a short series.
Offensively this may be true, but Gardner is an elite defender in that corner outfield spot, and even if he’s not hitting will provide that defense. Sure, marginally Holliday is a better player, but if you’re the Yankees and you already have 8 bats with a career .350 wOBA or better, you’re not really adding a whole lot with Holliday for a playoff series — you don’t add him for the playoffs, you add him because he helps your team win more games in the regular season. If they were adding players to help in the playoffs, they’d go out and sign Ben Sheets and then not throw him until August and make him their fifth starter in the postseason. They added Javy Vazquez to be their fourth starter. They’d be better off spending that money on pitching than on offense — their offense can’t really get much better than it already is.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I'm a little confused.
Why would the Yanks sign Sheets to be their fifth starter in the postseason when most teams only use four? And the Yanks this past postseason only used three?
I think Sheets’ marginal value to the Yanks is less than Holliday, especially if you’re only talking about postseason value.
by arch support on Dec 30, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not
I can see both sides of it.
Thing is, you don’t make signings specifically for the postseason, because you’ll nearly always be disappointed.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
But aren't we arguing that the Yanks don't need to sign anyone else
because they are basically a shoe-in? I fail to see how them signing anyone at this point wouldn’t, primarily, be for the post-season. They didn’t need to make any of the moves they made this offseason if just making the playoffs was the only goal. They may end up disappointed by a Holliday signing, but then again he’s more likely to come through for them in the bottom of the ninth in the seventh game than Gardner is.
It’s not like we’re talking about the Cardinals or another mid-market team that has to make their signings count. If money is basically of no concern when pursuing their goals, then what is the downside of signing Holliday?
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 30, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Offensively this may be true, but Gardner is an elite defender in that corner outfield spot, and even if he’s not hitting will provide that defense.
If you believe at all in UZR, defense looks to have a lot more variability (over time) than offense to me. The idea that Gardner will ALWAYS have a better series than Holliday over 3 games with the glove seems to lack proof, as far as I can see.
I expect you’ll actually find variability in both – Gardner will sometimes have a better series with the bat, but Holliday will be the better hitter on average. Likewise, Gardner may now and again drop a ball that Holliday will catch, but generally he’ll be the better defender on average. It’s just that, on average, the “sum of the parts” of either player will be such that Holliday is the more valuable.
Also, I think you might be slightly exaggerating the value of defense (esp. in a corner OF spot) in a short series. Realistically, how many outs will a LF “make” with the glove in, say, a 6-game series? Maybe one or two per game? The vast majority of times you “play” that series with gardner or Holliday in LF the result will be the same – they’ll each get about 12 chances they can realistically get to, and they’ll each turn 12 of them into outs. Of course, Gardner’s got better range and likely a better glove, but the extremes of his range (compared to Holliday) will only be exposed once in a blue moon.
Like I said, I don’t see how defense is less prone to variability over a small sample size of games than offense is, and I would be very surprised if you could provide some evidence to that effect.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
the only thing that makes sense, to me,
trying to look at it from the yankees perspective, is that they want to keep LF open in case Jeter or A-rod or Posada need to move there (IE, Cano needs to move 2b→3B) in the next few years. Or Tex to LF to make room for Pujols or Howard or Berkman. Etc.
When you look at the age of the Yankees players, there’s a very high risk that they lose a lot of wins next year based on injuries. They got 15.8 WAR last year from position players who will be 38, 35, and 36 this year. They got ~400 innings out of AJ Burnett and 37 year old Andy Pettitte, who is coming back as 38 year old Andy Pettitte next year. Phil Hughes was worth 1.8 WAR in 86 IP.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
hit "post" too soon
Anyway, Hughes is likely to regress, and they have a very high injury risk to the players they got the most value from in ‘09. I’ll be very surprised to see them win 95 games with their current roster next year.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
And a decline risk.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The construction of the team may not utilize DeRosa
to the full extent and I agree that he doesn’t necessarily make sense as more than a depth move . . .
. . . but our team just got uglier in 2010.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Dec 29, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
skippy has a sad.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
I'm about ready for Holliday and Boras to give us some sort of idea of what they're going to do with our offer
Of course, this is Scott Boras we’re talking about. He won’t show his hand.
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
well
just because we don;t know anything doesn’t mean mo hasn’t finalized a deal and holliday is on his way for a physical. that mo is a crafty guy. and between him and boras, i wouldn’t be surprised if a deal isn’t announced before the presser
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
that is the definition of an optimist
actually, I think signing Holliday just got more difficult, since our other options have become more limited with DeRosa off the market – knowing this, why would Boras move faster to get Holliday signed – I hope I’m wrong, but I see the Holliday signing (with whomever) going on for quite a while longer
but it takes the giants out of the running as"mystery" team
and there are a lot more options in LF than there are teams, still.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
he doesn't have hands.
it’s all bees
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
exactly
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Bees?
I like to think Mottie
knew.
Also, if you say Boras’s name five times, he appears, and negotiates you out of half your holdings.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
But if you call up The Bees in the same manner
they will be forced to battle Boras to the death, or at least to some semblance of a reasonable contract
Mottie was just practicing. I think the little dance is part of the invocation.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
DeRosa?!
Who the hell’s gonna be our clubhouse presence next season?! Way to be a jackass, Mo!
No, but seriously, I did like guy but he barely hit his weight. Shut up, Post-Dispatch.
Plan B as in Beltre
So, I take it that the Beltre rumor is not true?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Fortunately.
I’m going to guess that the guy who kept citing St Louis radio stations with these rumors simply makes things up. Because he also claimed (something another poster had pointed out that I missed) that another station in St Louis had reported we signed Holliday and Smoltz on the same day. Long story short, guy’s a jackass.
by mynameistyler on Dec 29, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
My outlook on humantiy just died a little.....
What kind of world do we live in when we can’t trust anonymous Asshat’s in the comment section of a paper or website.
* is an Asshat
no, no no
did he have a fake name?
the asshat did not
we have fake names
you can trust us
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Beltre is a Boras client
I think that sums it up
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I just don't get it with this Boras popularity with players
I can understand the superstars might like Boras’ magic, but Boras seems to act to the detriment to his lesser marquee names. How does “putting other negotiations on hold until Boras’ prize player first signs” not hurt Boras’ other players? Was the $4M Kyle Lohse special an example of Boras’ delay?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Yes, I guess we got swindled after the fact
but I was thinking about the original low fruit deal.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
boras is probably even more valuable to the smaller fish
because of his knowledge of the market, connections to GMs, ability to market players (Boras does not just make his money on a fixed percentage of basbeall contracts), money management services, access to trainers and specialists, etc. etc.
I think part of the reason so many people dislike Boras is that they’re fairly unfamiliar with the types of services baseball agents provide, how baseball agents get paid and where a majority of their money comes from, the actual dynamics of the player market, etc.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 29, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I never understood the hate for Boras
If I was working for a company for 9 years were I had no negotiating power what so ever. After 9 years I would definitely be out to get mine.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
I hate him only because he is the enemy of my allegience
I root for the Cardinals. Boras’ job is to milk as much money out of the Cards as possible. Thus, I hate Boras. He’s damn good at his job, and I don’t think he’s ruining the game or all that other stuff people cry about.
I just hate that he’s so good at his job.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
things looking rosy in san fran
i think they may be disappointed. don’t know about cust, but i don’t think rosy was worth the price the giants paid.
i’m still for ryan church, craig, and freese plus some flexibility at the deadline. as in the past year, i think mo et al would make something happen at mid-seasonn IF carp and albert are healthy
i would however throw in for bay at 4 years or less, or with a club option for year 5 and no no-trade clause. i understand that mo hopes holliday will see our continued focus only on him as a positive to accept a lowish offer, but this is business and i’d give up the psycho approach and start negotiating with bay and let boras get nervous. plus, if it worked out, i’d take bay and go on about my business (with church, or even cust)
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
Why an AL team hasn't swooped in and given Bay a five-year deal is beyond me.
They can hide him at DH some, or most, of the time. I think Bay has a lot more value in the AL because of his limited defensive range.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
"No, thanks" to Ryan Church
We have enough problems against LHP already and he’s injury-prone. If your thought is to platoon him w/Craig, I dunno. If he came super-cheap with incentives for being healthy (not likely), that might work. Think I would rather have the aforementioned Jack Cust in that scenario, though. He hits plenty of “dingers”, has better plate discipline, and has a high contact-to-“damage” ratio. TLR’s kind of hitter.
I know there is a lot of excitement about Craig here, but until he proves his talent at the MLB level, I’ll reserve my enthusiasm. In the end, I would imagine Mo will prefer signing a vet at favorable cost over putting both Craig and Freese on the starting roster for 2010. Rasmus was projected as a can’t miss prospect, and remember how cautious they were with him.
i know
they waited until he was 22 to call him up
22!
the man is practically back in diapers already!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Personally,
I am looking forward to getting old enough to have to wear diapers again. You just have to love the convenience…
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Cust doesn't hit any dingers.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:46 AM EST up reply actions
How about plan D, as in Defense?
Sign Beltre and Felipe Lopez, then put this lineup out there. Listed with career UZR at their respective position.
LF Skip 0.0
2B Lopez 5.1
1B Pujols 43.8
RF Ludwick 13.5
3B Beltre 104.5
CF Colby 8.9
C Yadi
P
SS Ryan 15.4
That’s an average or better defender at every position, especially on the infield to eat up ground balls.
And Lopez’s numbers since 2005 (when he started playing full time) in any uniform that doesn’t say Washington Nationals: .302/.369/.451/.820
Beltre’s 2007-2009 splits away from Safeco: .287/.331/.488/.819
This lineup would play excellent defense, and could potentially put up surprising offensive numbers, especially if Skip and Lopez got on base better than 35% of the time in front of Albert.
by pitchingandefense on Dec 29, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions
I think Lopez is more likely an option to be the full-time third baseman, if anything.
Skip is the second baseman. Lugo is his righty platoon partner. I think that is set in stone. I like the thought of either Beltre or Lopez at third base. In fact, I might even prefer Lopez to bat second and play third, what with his OBP in front of Pujols. He can also inflict “damage,” which TLR seems to covet in that lineup slot.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i like lopez
although I’m concerned about his attitude and the fact that he makes lugo somewhat redundant (and I doubt anyone wants to give back much in a trade for julio). However, Lopez is a great fit for us IMO – hits right-handed at 2B vs LHP as Schu’s platoon partner, and left-handed at 3B vs RHP as Freese’s platoon partner, and he’s an above-average hitter for both, and an above-average defender at 2B and 3B.
Also, Lopez is a type A, I believe, which would kinda suck, given the quality of our farm system currently.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Floppy was not offered arbitration
Therefore there is no draft pick compensation attached to him.
I think the Cards should sign him now, regardless of the Holliday situation. He fits all kinds of LaRussa machinations.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
His .383 OBP
Would look downright awesome ahead of Pujols.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
Well, he's unlikely to put up another season like that
I think he’s probably good for a .340 wOBA and -5 defense, making him an average player. I would like to sign one of Holliday, Beltre or Lopez or maybe two.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Lopez
If he plays primarily third, is he a -5 defender? I ask because I am genuinely unsure of how to rate him at the hot corner. Also, I don’t think it to be unrealistic that he will post another season of high OBP. Most likely not .383, but over .350 is a distinct possiblity, if not probable. I suppose that probably levels out to a .340 wOBA and I’m questioning nothing…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think that he could have a monster year if he batted in front of #5 all year.
I truly believe that he could put up a .300/.400/.475 year hitting in that spot.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I think you might be drinking a little too much Lopez-ade ;)
I’m not saying that line isn’t out of the scope of his abilities, but expecting it is ludicrous.
Besides, lineup protection has mainly been debunked, and even if it did have an impact, I doubt Lopez would have a .100 ISO discipline with Pujols in front of him. His power would probably go up, but not his OBP.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
i agree with this sentiment
but also agree with whoever said that albert pujols is the definition of an outlier and might not quite fit the bill here
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I didn't say it like that
so you’re probably not referring to me, but I’ve thought Pujols doesn’t count in that debunking.
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
i probably added my own flavour to it
yes, that is the british english spelling. you wanna fight about it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
as a matter of fact...
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
but also agree with whoever said that albert pujols is the definition of an outlier and might not quite fit the bill here
I said that, but it wasn’t in the context of Lopez. I was thinking about the Cust/Craig platoon – that is, I’d rather (in a non-Holliday world) have a slightly-above average LF platoon that is great with the bat and poor with the glove, rather than the other way round, because both players (or at least Cust) will be hitting in the 4-hole behind a guy who gets on base an obscene percentage of the times he has a PA. 30 jacks (or however many Cust would hit) in front of a guy with a .450 OBP are more valuable than 30 jacks in a context-neutral environment.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:49 AM EST up reply actions
I think the ISO discipline
Wouldn’t quite be .100 as I think he would hit a bit higher than .300 exactly. While I agree that protection has been mainly debunked, I have seen enough hitters hit in front of Pujols to understand that hitting in that spot may be one of the exceptions. Not saying it is….just saying it might be.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
You should check this out
http://stlsportsscene.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/lineup-protection-part-2/
STeve has said he is going to expand on that post soon.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
the chone and bill james projections are about the same: .340 OBP, .370 SLG.
i don’t think that’s far off.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
that looks pretty good to me
slightly above average, no? Given that his glove is a definite plus at 3B (and average-ish at 2B), the whole “Floppy for double-platoon duty” idea looks good to me.
My only concern is that (after his great 2009) he might want 2 or 3 years at a high-ish price.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:51 AM EST up reply actions
"Definite plus"?
UZR has him at +6/150, but in less than 800 innings which is nothing. Given the scouting reports, his age, and the fact that he was awful at shortstop in a much larger sample size, and pretty much average at 2nd base, I highly doubt he’s a plus defender.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 30, 2009 6:00 AM EST up reply actions
I concur
I really like Felipe. I don’t remember him having an attitude problem during his last stint with the Cardinals. Does anyone else? I think both LaRussa and Carpenter would put the kibosh on that fairly quickly.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Yes, I distinctly remember an attitude problem
and terrible defense. He only played well when he felt like it and would fuck up routine plays.
Remember, he hated playing in DC so much that he intentionally sucked so they would cut him, and he admitted doing so.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
yeah, that's the concern
he’s hit like a demon in his couple of contract years, and has largely stunk otherwise. Whilst playing for a contender (us) MIGHT be good for him, I’m still a bit concerned about his approach to the game at times.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:52 AM EST up reply actions
But he DID have a pretty face and some interesting tattoos.
I has pikshurrz.
Also, I heard a story about why he’s so messed up. I can’t remember if I heard it on VEB or on a broadcast, or both, but evidently his father was a complete nutcase and a horrible Little League father, and he used to beat Felipe within an inch of his life if he ever fucked up, either in the field or at bat. Supposedly it was so bad that he had to go live with an uncle because his dad beat the hell out of him all the time.
Here’s some background
I do have a soft spot for headcases, and I feel for the guy; however, I’m still pretty sure I don’t want him back on the Cards.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
only if someone has a nice long talk with Boog.
haha.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i'm not a floppy fan
but signing him makes some economic sense, though i don’t see skip going back to the outfield. if we did this, i’d try to move lugo. don’t need both
and i actually got to liking beltre for 2/17, however improbable
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
Skip should never play OF again.
He is a terrible defensive center fielder and his bat does not play at all in left.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And, Lopez should not play second
as I recall, he was not very good defensively in his time with the Cards – not even sure Oquendo could fix him
he's a wierd case, defensively
he’s actually above average, but in a wierd way – he makes a lot of errors (i.e. his handling skills are poor) but his range is exceptional. He gets to a lot more balls than the average 2B or 3B but boots quite a lot of them, so he easily gets a bad rep despite actually being pretty good.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know what to say about that!
good range, so he can boot more of them and throw more away??
it's not really that complicated.
let’s say every 2b gets 100 balls hit in his zone. let’s say the average 2b gets to 80% of them and properly fields 90% of the balls he gets to. that means he makes an out on 72 of 100 balls.
let’s say lopez gets to 90% of the balls in his zone, but only properly fields 85% of them. that would mean he makes 77 outs on 100 balls. that’s how better range and worse ball-handling can still make more outs.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Tom, I wasn't confused
I was being facetious. I understand the argument perfectly. Let’s just say that I don’t see Felipe as someone I want being a main player with a ground-ball pitching staff. However, I also don’t see him being a starter all that often, at least in the infield. And when he does start, Freese or someone would replace him in the late innings. So, I am not anti-Lopez. He just works much better for me as a part timer and a bat off the bench, rather than as a main third baseman, which seems to be how many are thinking of him.
Yeah, I like him as a part-time player in two positions
he’s a left-hand hitting 3B against RHP, and a right-hand hitting 2B vs LHP, which means we can protect Freese and Schu against same-sided pitchers, which makes a lot of sense to me and means we can actually carry a competent SS (Greene) on the bench instead of Julio Lugo’s stinky glove. Other than concerns about Lopez’s price and attitude, there’s also the need to be able to trade Lugo for something of vague value, however. Personally, I’d like to find someone willing to give up a bullpen arm or a C/B-level prospect.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:55 AM EST up reply actions
I would flip Lugo also
Just to free up his roster spot.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
You're right
Maybe I am just afraid of Kalima, the beating heart in his hand and his evil glare.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I guess that's fair comment
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
that would also mean Plan Quadruple Z was in effect
it would all have gone to hell
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Beltre?
Wow i lived ou tin Wa state for years..he has a little pop but never lived up to his contract yr contract the Ms gave him. If he’s cheap maybe, but I’d pass.
Then again if He wasn’t the piece but a piece he may do slightly better. It all depends on the $$$
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
by punchinjudy on Dec 29, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Don't forget,
Beltre is also one of, if not the best, defensive third basemen in the game. He’s like MV3 Rolen.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
but how tall is he
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
5'11"
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hmm. I'll reserve my judgment
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
but can his bat replace those extra inches
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
not quite
maybe “dingers”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Moo, I don't wanna hear about your shorty
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and a need to adjust his jock before each at-bat
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
C'mon now
He never had a 2004 season, but look at FanGraphs. He pretty much lived up to his contract.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
meh, ten war players grow on trees.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
i think he exceeded it, actually, didn't he?
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
It's worse than that even
It’s Sparta.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
Got an important question for you guys
So what are we going to call 2000 to 2009? I mean we had the 80’s and 90’s. What do we call this decade?
teh suck?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Dec 29, 2009 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
the only reason to be sorry is because you left out a few words
It should have went like this:
YOU ARE CORRECT, SIR!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
a pal of mine suggested
the Naughties
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
The Oughts....
as in
Albert ought to have won 3 more MVP’s
The Cards ought to have won more world series
etc.
* is an Asshat
by RiverRat on Dec 29, 2009 12:01 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
in SBN, reply fails *you*
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
10/10, would rec again
recs all round for this subthread, from this Monk.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
honestly, i don't care for bay at 4y/$60m.
I just don’t think his value is going to hold as he ages. At $15m per, you’d be paying a high premium for a guy who may not be worth 3 war in the late years of his contract.
However, “a sop to the bourgeouis gms afraid to play manny ramirez at shortstop” is excellent.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Dec 29, 2009 12:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions
he wasn't
worth 3 war last year
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
fangraphs has him at 3.5 WAR last year and 2.9 WAR in 2008.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
must've been remembering 2008
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
my feeling is that that wouldn't be too bad
because I think it’s not impossible his defense might actually see a bit of a bounceback in the next couple of years. I don’t really have any huge logical argument for that, though…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
i'm ok with cust...off the bench
4/60 for bay would be wholly disappointing in my opinion…it would just feel like the air has been sucked out of everything
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
I'd rather have Cust for 1Y$4M
and playing every day in LF than Bay for 4Y$60M playing every day in LF. When you platoon him with Craig I like it even more. Maybe Craig figures it out and becomes the left fielder of the future post-2010 if you platoon him with Cust, if you sign Bay he never even has that opportunity.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
who would you trade for Luke Scott?
Scott is around a 2.5 WAR player who has a palatable contract status – $2.4MM and will go up according to arby in future years. That’s valuable.
You want to trade Jaime Garcia? Eduardo Sanchez and DJ Tools? I’m not sure that’s enough.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 29, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
the astros trading Luke Scott
and signing Carlos Lee to a mega contract pretty much sums up Ed Wade, doesn’t it?
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
actually, guess wade didn't sign Lee
has he really only been the GM 2 years?
let’s just change that to “sums up their organizational ineptitude…”
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
But you have to trade to get Scott
Cust is free and will cost about the same amount next season.
We’d have to give up DJ Tools and another B level prospect to get Luke Scott. Are you sure you want to make that trade?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
And Cust can hit really well
which Scott, 2009 excepted, generally hasn’t done throughout his career. His CHONE projection next year is a bit pessimistic, I think, but they’ve got him pegged as barely above average with the bat.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:57 AM EST up reply actions
Scott Hits As Well as Cust...
a couple less dingers and walks, but hits for a batter average and is a plus defender in LF. Their 162 game projections have Scott at .844 and Cust at .829, so they are pretty close offensively. The main diffrence, as I see it, is defense. If yer gonna run Cust out there in LF, you might as well tie a glove to my tail and put my big ol cow butt out there too, IMO.
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
No, he doesn't
Cust is projected to be worth nearly half a win more by CHONE and over a win more by Bill James for next season. Cust at his 50th percentile offensively is heads and shoulders better than Luke Scott. Couple that with defensive replacements late in games, platooning against lefties, and the fact that he doesn’t cost a prospect to acquire, he’s a much better choice than Scott is.
Cust, with his high OBP (.374 career), is the perfect hitter to put in front of Pujols in the 2 spot in the order. Scott dosn’t get on base near as well as Cust does.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
exactly
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 30, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, what fourstick said
Cust’s a much better hitter. Scott’s OBP is barely average and he doesn’t have as much power as Cust either. I dunno where you’re getting those projections from.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
since Mr. Of Rose will be stricken from the glossary
Here is his entry for posterity…
Mark DeRosa. Other “rose” puns apply. Dumped by the Cubs, stuck with the Indians, the first of the rescues/trades to impact the ’09 Cardinals. See: man stew. Via text message after the Holliday trade:
Schumaker: Now we go! We just got Holliday.
DeRosa: I guess I was just an appetizer! Sweet!!! I hear Mike Holliday is good.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think I was the first VEB'er to call him Mark of Rose
That and my idea to make 6 the number of recs for green are really the only contributions I’ve ever made to this place.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
i called him that when he was a brave
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
thank goodness you made that joke
the first three I thought of were just over the line
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Whatever man
I’ve still got my 6 recs thing to hold onto, even as you crush my dreams.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
cool. Chris Carpenter luggages the competition
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Reliever
I was also pleased to see that Izzy, deservingly, ran away with reliever of the decade.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think that was closer
relievers are being done today, and Kliner is takin’ it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
WTF,
only 12 votes for Tavarez? I loved that guy.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I still do
he made some awesome comments as a Nat the other year.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:57 AM EST up reply actions
When he compared signing with them to drunkenly taking home the fat girl at the bar?
I also love Tavarez, phone-punching and all.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
that sounds good to me
or Holliday in LF and Ben Sheets on the mound.
It looks less and less like we are going to see Smoltz back, so is it too soon to hope that Sanchez is our closer by the All Star Break?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Lopez offers less than one marginal win over Freese.
That said, he would seem to be a great utility player to platoon with Skip and spell Freese at third on occasion.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
i might want lopez if we didn't get holliday
but I’m not sure i’d want to give up our only first round pick to sign him (pretty sure he’s an A). Also, I guess he’ll cost a fair bit after a 4-win season. Like you say, given the marginal upgrade at 2B, I think i’d rather have smoltz or sheets, personally, unless we don’t sign holliday.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
the cardinals should NOT sign sheets.
I realize that’s blasphemy around here, but his demands are freaking ridiculous. He wants big money and won’t take an incentive deal after almost never being healthy and coming off major surgery. Sheets is an asshat if he thinks he’s getting that. And any team who signs him under those conditions is likewise an asshat.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Obviously we wouldn't sign him for 12 million
But nobody else is going to sign him for that either. His price will come down into the 5 million range, and that would probably make him worth it.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I'll buy that.
of course I’d love to have him for a reasoanble price. maybe I should have mentioned that.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
as mentioned above the d-backs were too scared to offer arbitration.
he was a type B anyway, so he wouldn’t have cost us anything.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Brewers didn't offer
He was traded mid-season. But you are correct that he was a Type B anyway. I would happily sign Floppy for 2yrs 11million.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
right. dang. brewers. that failure to offer arb and several other lack of arb offers (wolf, e.g.) may be the
quietest awful moves made by front offices; that’s gotten very little play this year.
yeah, i think that’s about the money he can expect. stunned that NOBODY’s been linked to him.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
yeah
I just assumed he was offered arb as he was freakin’ awesome last year and only made $3.5m. Not offering arby to a guy like that is just throwing a pick away. What’s the worst that can happen? You get a 4.6 WAR player for one year at $5m? jeez.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 5:59 AM EST up reply actions
Baffling decision
I thought he would be offered for sure. So did everyone over at Brew Crew Ball. With him being a type B there was virtually no chance he would have accepted because his market was not going to be hindered by his status.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
per goold
Mozeliak said there are a few free agents he has kept in constant contact with. He declined to identify them, but the Cardinals are known to have interest in Felipe Lopez, a switch-hitting infielder.
i’m interested.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
do we... buy him a round?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
You can either buy him a Franklin or bake him a pie
Either one is 100% VEB meme approved.
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but not a bowl of nuts
right?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Mannywood analogy
Who do you’all think won in the Manny/Boras/Dodgers scenario of last year? Manny was signed in March a deal 2 year $45M that was like the deal the Dodgers had offered in winter.
Does anyone think that the Holliday saga ends up with a similar denouement?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
stop making me look up words
and no chance this thing goes on that long. I would not be surprised though if the Cards’ first offer is the best one he sees.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
People that want Felipe Lopez back
WERE YOU IN A COMA WHILE HE WAS HERE LAST TIME?
His defense was AWFUL. GOD FREAKING AWFUL. AWFUL.
I’ll say it again: AWFUL.
Signing him to play 3B would be vomit inducing. Actually, it would be maddening because LaRussa would find a way to super-platoon him, Ryan, Skip and Lugo in which they all got equal time at 3B, SS and 2B.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 29, 2009 1:12 PM EST reply actions
there is the possibility
that his presence will cause flashbacks for Boog, and he reverts.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That is my thought also
I just don’t want any more MIFer’s
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
You give away games in a pennant race to the Cubs with your boners
you burn in hell forever.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 29, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Erm.
If erections can lose a pennant race, I’m going to have some very severe psychosexual issues around September.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
you don't have them already?
try talking to Colby
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
show me on the doll where flippy touched you
also, welcome back! we thought we’d lost you.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Dec 29, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
No Bacon Boners?
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Dec 29, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Branyan?
would you rather have 3 true himself back?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
yes
i am a big branyan fan, in case anyone’s not noticed… I’d sign him to be the long end of a 3B platoon (in the full realisation he probably will need some time off for his knees etc). Not sure he’d want to be back, tho.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
his uzr at second after 2400 innings is average (+2 UZR/150). his uzr at third in a small sample is good (+6).
i’m willing to put some faith in that.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
remember though
he did a lot of stupid stuff that cost runs but didn’t show up in UZR. Simple things like throwing to first base without looking the runner back to third, getting an out but losing a run, not being in position to cut off throws from the outfield, costing bases, etc.
Go back and read the late 2008 game threads. Search for floppy. It was infuriating.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
that said
he’s probably better at both positions that Lugo. If we could trade lugo for a prospect and bring Lopez in without losing a draft pick, I’d consider that an upgrade.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
gdm still has that bear, right?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
well I hope the dude is okay
even if he is a figment of our imagination
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
see, Lopez is the perfect argument, IMO, for the usefulness of objective stats vs subjective viewing
I also thought he sucked for us (well, actually, according to UZR he did), but he just looked really bad, booting a ton of balls. It amazed me that he was a + defender by UZR, but (somewhat unusually), really poor on the “error” component, but very good on “range”. So, he gets to a lot of balls (more than an average 2B or 3B), but boots quite a lot of them.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
So, during the time you saw him, you thought he sucked,
and UZR also did. When you were not watching him, UZR thought he was decent, therefore UZR is useless?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
no, UZR thought he was good.
he was a slightly plus defender in the infield, with the cardinals. He was negative defensively in the OF with the cardinals. And during the time we saw him, he looked incredibly bad in the infield, largely because he did things that UZR does not capture, like throw to the wrong base.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
152 innings.
Feh.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
is there a point to this comment?
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
SSS
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
sigh
do you honestly think there is anyone on this board who doesn’t get SSS? Seriously? Especially the ones of us involved in this conversation, IE, Felonious, myself, and Tom S? Tom S even says “small sample” in his initial reply to HCL.
It was 245 innings with the cardinals, but Tom S referred to his UZR for his career (over a large sample, 2400+innings). We’ve seen nearly every inning of his play with the cardinals, and his UZR runs saved with the cards on the infield parallels his career fielding numbers. What we saw with the cardinals was clearly not above-average defense, despite what UZR claims. Hence the conversation regarding the merits of UZR for evaluating players on the extremes of a particular skill set, or sets.
Anyway, your post above incorrectly represented what UZR said about his performance with the cardinals, and the (incorrect) sample size you referenced was irrelevant to that sub-thread. hence my question as to why you wasted our time asking it.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
UZR thinks he's okay
But I think +/- thinks he’s terrible.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
and UZR also did. When you were not watching him, UZR thought he was decent, therefore UZR is useless?
You totally misunderstood my post.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:00 AM EST up reply actions
NL Central moves on mlbtr
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/nl-central-moves.html
I’ll crosspost that puppy to the HSP
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
thank god. now at last our mexican standoff can end.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Dec 29, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So we add a year and maybe $1 to $2M per year to the contract
And that is what we offer Holliday?
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Francesa's WFAN radio report link
in case you are interested in listening to the news, here is the link
Included in the report – Bengie and the Mets are still working on a deal.
preliminary word being 4y/$66m.
by flim’s theory – the 5y/$80m for holliday doesn’t look bad at all.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
I am thinking personally closer to 5 years/$90M
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
i could live with that, probably. $18m AAV? all right.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
I have visions of $16.5MM AAV dancing through my head.
(In place of Christmas sugar plums.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Wow.
If we were able to sign Holliday for under 6 years and under $90MM, I would be thrilled.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Anyone else find it ironically that the Mets are signing Jason Bay?
Didn’t Minaya trade him like 8 years ago?
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
wow, what an interesting history
drafted by the expos, traded to the mets for a guy who got 14 PA’s for the expos (!!!), then traded to the padres for 2 relievers who pitched a combined 49 innings over 2 years for the mets, then traded to the pirates (with Oliver Perez!) for brian giles. Then the big trade to the red sox.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
imagine if Ryan Ludwick were represented by a Boras
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
party time excellent news?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
almost actually
if we sign Holliday to a reasonable deal, I think that’s worth a party.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
I sincerely hope you got that cultural reference
otherwise I’ll feel old. you don’t want that.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
uhhh all I have to say about that is
asphinctersayswhat.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Exactly
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 29, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Bay's physical "might not be a formality" according to the NY Post
And the physical might not be a formality. There has been a lot of talk in the sport that the Red Sox were hesitant to do a long-term deal with Bay because they were concerned about the health of his shoulders. Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/wfan_mets_will_sign_bay_next_week_EZJDu59M8MW7pDw3xkjTUL#ixzz0b7JLdEMc
If Bay doesn’t pass a physical, the Mets might move on Holliday, Be well, Jason. Live long and prosper.
fixed
Live longand prosper.
Pondscum are pondscum.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If he signs that contract he is.
* is an Asshat
by RiverRat on Dec 29, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that's the one
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
If Bay doesn't pass a physical, maybe we could get him dirt cheap?
maybe a bit of upside there.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:03 AM EST up reply actions
cheap cheap
fun fun?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
After we sing Holliday for 16MM how much do we have left to spend?
I’ll assume that we are going to get Holliday not that noone else is even bidding on him.
I have the Cardinals current payroll at $77M
That is without Holliday, with my guesses of arbitration, and Brad Penny at $7.5.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
That sounds about right
I would guess we would have ~5MM to throw at John Smoltz then.
I would be a big fan of adding Smoltz and Holliday.
What about a bench bat? Eric Hinske?
We still need a backup CFer
And don’t tell me Ryan Ludwick.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
to me Reed Johnson makes a lot of sense
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Gabe Gross is adequate
although I guess it’d have to be a righty. Norris Hopper would be available on league minimum. I like Reed too…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Skip Schumker?
He can backup Rasmus just fine…
I am under the assumption that Corky Ramos will play 150 games this year
Skip Schumaker should never play CF again.
He has horrendous range.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Ludwick is a better CFer in every way than Skip.
I’d rather sign a corner OFer with some power offensively, install him in RF when Rasmus sits, and shift Ludwick over to CF.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yes it will!
it’s Plan Quadruple Z! don’t you guys listen to Mo!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
what if colby gets hurt
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
What if Pujols gets hurt?
What if Yadi gets hurt? What if Ludwick gets hurt? What if Holliday gets hurt?
Why do you make me think of such scenarios? It’s scary.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hamilton
anderson
craig
craig
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
actually probably more like
craig
larue/paggs
craig
craig
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Dude, thats not even cool
Go Broncos!!
by from First to Third on Dec 29, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
i'm not the one
proposing a 25 man roster with no back up CFer
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
do you want 100 games of sugar shane in CF?
DO YOU?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I just don't like you prophesying bad things for my boy.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I prophesise
he will impregnate approximately one skank per major league season.
So far, I’m right on the money.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I could see him with a second kid...
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
well since his stomach problems
were around the time the babymama started to show…
who knows what the DL will really mean
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
just wrong yet so right
I have been wondering that myself, if his stomache pains were really strong hangovers from drinking himself silly after finding out
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
it would potentially explain why TLR kept running him out
despite being injured
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
how do you know that?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
not gonna say what i want to say
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
I found out one of my friends who is a physicians assistant
that specializes in organ transplants that organs can’t be harvested unless the donor is still alive and that their team has to decide when they pull the plug to get the organs. I now tell people she works for the death panel.
nah
it’s more like they have a window. during that window where the organs can be harvested, the organs are still technically alive. i know. i watch house
also it’s “physician assistant.” they tend to get mad if you say “physician’s assistant.” i know because i read spirit magazine on southwest flights
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
is that like sleeping at a holiday inn express last night except more pathetic?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
i don;t know what you mean, but probably
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It could be worse. All of my medical knowledge comes from Scrubs.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
we're all on the Holliday In? Express
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
give the guy a break!
he took a flyball to the nuts. It takes time to recover from such things
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
It kind of bummed me out, since if you are an organ donor and you die before you get to the hospital, you’re worthless.
meh
I lived in Europe for a couple years so I “might” be carrying Mad Cow so the Red Cross calls my blood worthless, if they won’t take my blood why would anyone even want my organs? Sad really that those that require blood can’t get it on the off chance that I may be carrying a disease that may possibly some day figure out how to mutate and be human to human transferable and then might someday somehow mutate to even harm humans.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
same here
i am an organ donor on my driver’s license but according to regulations i am permanently ineligible to donate blood in the us. however, should i ever be in the situation where my organs can be harvested for donation, i don’t think anyone would even ask about it and they’ll just cut
"mad cow disease" is potentially dangerous to humans
in the form of human vCJD, which is the prion disease it causes. It seems absurd, however, that you can’t donate blood because you lived in europe for a while, given that a) AFAIK there’s no evidence of it laying dormant for many years and b) the frequency and rate of infection for it, even when it was news in the UK, were absurdly low, much lower than a lot of other blood-borne infections. I think only a dozen or so people died from it, in total.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 31, 2009 3:44 AM EST up reply actions
Just call them PA's.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
well I would hope so
because I think we should all know by now that Tony has got a rotation fetish going on where positions are involved. And I figure he is gonna sit Rasmus’ ass on the bench at least 10 times next season because he doesn’t want Charo to get too big if a head, thinking he deserves all that playing time and all.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
tyler greene, duh.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
this guy?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 30, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
SHEETS
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 2:50 PM EST reply actions
am i the only one discontent with thread counts that are too high?
like why do you need 700 count. that doesn’t even feel like cotton anymore.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
MOAR THREDS!
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
well when you put it that way...
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
No such thing as "too high thread count"
gimme hotel-grade sheets, plz. thx.
Unused, of course, and not from an actual hotel.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
What if there were so many threads
That the sheet no longer bent because it was threaded to densely or something.
WHAT THEN, HUH?
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
am i the only one discontent with thread counts that are too high?
Man, you think you’ve got problems? I’ve only got one kidney!!!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:05 AM EST up reply actions
Would be interesting
but he supposedly wants guaranteed $$ and is not willing to sign for incentives. Which is nuts.
"Slide DiMaggio, slide!" "Hey, my name isn't DiMaggio, my name is mm..mmmm...mmm....mud."
I've been looking for the cartoon quoted in your sig but can't find it anywhere.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I love old Looney Tunes...
"Slide DiMaggio, slide!" "Hey, my name isn't DiMaggio, my name is mm..mmmm...mmm....mud."
that crazy
ok, VALVERDE
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
at his price or our price?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
It is very difficult
for me to believe that we can win in October with Franklin closing. His emotional breakdowns after struggles in 2008 convinced me that he just doesn’t have the closer persona. Hard to believe he ever will.
Keep those franklins chilled…..
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey.
The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
- Phillies pitcher Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary
OK.
$5m guaranteed. No incentives. Deal.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 29, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
people in hell want ice water
whats he thinking?
by jealousblues on Dec 29, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
probably that he can get $5M in may
so why settle for it now, when there’s a chance of $12M?
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
Just my opinion....
Boras would rather have Matt sit out a year than have him sign a five/six year deal at “reduced” salary.
No team (I hope) would sign him for one year and give up a draft prospect……Boras cannot be happy with the Bay signing…… which makes me smile very much indeed.
doubt it
Boras would rather have Matt sit out a year than have him sign a five/six year deal at "reduced" salary
Next year he wont be the biggest name on the market.
Indeed
Mauer + Crawford + Pena + V-Mart + Manny! + Werth + Beckett + Cliff Lee + Vazquez + Webb
and that is just skimming the FA list, next year’s class is DEEP
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
True.
But we ain’t there yet. I’d be surprised if more than half the names on your list make it to free agency.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Very true, it's preliminary
but that’s still a HELL of a list. Even a year before this year’s FA class, there weren’t that many big stars.
I expect Mauer to stay put, and same with Pena and V-Mart, but other than that, I think the rest of them will hit FA.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I would add Beckett and Lee to the "stay put" list.
I’m not an expert.
by arch support on Dec 30, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
with that list
Holliday is still the premium LF, unless he gets hurt this year. He’s 6 months younger than Werth, and significantly better at baseball than either Crawford or Werth, neither of whom have ever had a season as good as Holliday’s worst season of the last 3 years.
OTOH, that list of pitchers makes me feel better about Mo playing hardball with H.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
I don't think he is.
It really depends on the team. The Yankees would sure as hell rather have Crawford, since they want the run-producing threat that can steal 60 bases or so.
And pitching is deep next year, like you said. i would die to have Webb in this rotation.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Well, they'd score a lot more runs with holliday
whether or not he steals any bases.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
There's still that damn perception
that he can’t hit in the AL. Crawford has ran and hit in the AL East his entire career, and the Yankees probably respect that more than Holliday’s resume. Not that I agree with it, it’s just the perception.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
in fairness, brett's chance of throwing an interception would go down with eight teammates on the field,
but at most four opponents on the field.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Only four opponents?
What, will the opposing dugout be empty?
on the field. not in the dugout.
you only get 4 guys on the field with a ball in play with the bases loaded.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Ha!
My dugout comment was an editorial.
As a former # 4 starter, I’m VERY familiar with how many opponents can be on the field at one time!
my sarcasm detector is in the shop today, evidently.
sry.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
That's OK
Fans of Tom Waits enjoy an extra degree of latitude on everything. Or they should, at least.
Is there any scenario that keeps Cliff Lee in Seattle past 2010?
I doubt it
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 30, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
Highly doubt it
They’ll opt to extend Hernandez and not Lee.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
Boras, in a two-party negotiation
Threatening to sit out a year would make no sense in the current negotiations, because (unlike JD Drew when he was drafted), Holliday would be foolish to forego a huge annual salary for a peak year in hopes of adding two extra over-priced years in his decline phase.
Boras thrives in auction markets, playing multiple bidders against each other, and part of his job is to project the greedy agent image, so that any bad feelings after the negotations are focused on him rather than his client. HOWEVER, if there are no other current bidders for Holliday. it’s not an auction market. Boras is trying to play on uncertainty (like unnamed mystery bidders) , to encourage Mo to bid against himself.
Nerves of steel, Mo.
BALLS OF STEEL, MO
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Blades of Steel, Mo.
Might help keep your mind off these stressful negotiations.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
that's just Albert Pujols, that's what that is
Freakin’ Albert Pujols even!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
he's a spiteful moron if that is the case
and matt holliday would be a complete stooge…its holliday’s decision
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
DeRosa
may be on the fast lane today on 101.1. They haven’t confirmed that he will be only that they are trying to get him.
are they trying to lure him with the old dollar on a string trick?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
but it was the handsomest in all the land.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and it had more chemistry in it than a pair of nigerian underpants.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Dec 29, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Speaking of Derosa
Once the deal is official (if it isn’t already), What kind of draft pick are we netting? I’m a little hazy on the draft rules. We get a sandwich pick for a type B, correct? Those are picks between the 1st and 2nd rounds right? So what determines the order of the sandwich round selections…pecking order determined by rating of the type B’s that were lost?
man, I keep forgetting stuff
When do we start passing the hat for Hollirosa?
dude needs a new nick. let’s hear ’em.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think we wait and see about Holliday.
Because that way we know if the whole thing needs to change. Unless I missed something.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
that is true
so he’s only half screwed
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
it's completely possible he still has a chance at Hollipez
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
oooh
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Nomination for another cheap alternative:
Jonny Gomes…good power vs lhp…I don’t have time to look how bad he is defensively
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey.
The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
- Phillies pitcher Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary
like
Defense? The bourgeoisie sop for GMs not fearless enough to sign Manny Ramirez to play shortstop!
bad.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Dec 29, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you're going to ride this for a long time, aren't you?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
that's what--
oh man, no. I can’t.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That's what Paul Revere's stable boy said?
Was that what you were going to say?
by arch support on Dec 30, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
All he might have is power vs. lefties
he hits like ankiel does, whiffin it up
Go Broncos!!
by from First to Third on Dec 29, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
handegg alerts
here is my fantasy football superbowl champion team: Philip Rivers, Larry Fitzgerald, Santonio Holmes, Sidney Rice, Ricky Williams, Thomas Jones, Antonio Gates, Matt Prater, New Orleans defense
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions
too bad I didn't enter a pay league
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
better than?
Peyton Manning, Chris Johnson, Frank Gore, Ricky Williams, Sidney Rice, Mario Manningham, Antonio Gates, Mason Crosby, San Francisco defense
a couple similarities though
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
yeah
pretty similar team… did you win in your league?
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
dominated the season (only 1 loss)
but the shenanigans pulled by the Colts scewed me over in the championship
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
doh
that’s the real reason why people were mad that PM was pulled ;)
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'm wondering whether fantasy players will factor this decision into how they rank QB's
next year. I know I would try and stay away from Manning because when you most need him, his coach f’s you over.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
You just have to be on the lookout for a good backup in the late rounds
or during the last couple weeks for a pickup.
With that team, he could have started Josh Freeman (available in probably every league up until the end of the year) and probably had a shot to win the championship.
There’s no way I’m not picking Manning because he might sit in week 16 — I might not even get to the championship without him, and he plays in a dome, meaning weather isn’t a factor in his home games. This is also why I like Brees and Rivers as QB’s.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
My Champ team
Warner, Chris Johnson, LT, Bradshaw, Boldin, Miles Austin, Dallas Clark, Eagles D, (Random Kicker),
Not very inspiring, but Chris Johnson is now my favorite fantasy back. If he doesn’t go #1 next year, I will be amazed.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Now that he gets 30 touches a game and goalline carries,
he’s unstoppable fantasy wise.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I think CJ will be the #1 back
LT’s fading compared to what he used to be, and CJ is a lot like Steven Jackson – does a very good job on a shaky team
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Dec 30, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Damn
You won with those RB’s? You in a PPR league or something?
My Champion team (Dynasty PPR league):
QB: Brady, Rivers, Freeman, Campbell
RB: Stephen Jackson, Adrian Peterson, Forte, Slaton, Choice, Moats
WR: Vincent Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Santonio Holmes, Harvin, Maclin, Houshmandzadeh, Roy Williams, Avery
TE: Dallas Clark, Owen Daniels
K: Gostkowski
D: Minnesota, Atlanta.
Plus, I have 3 of the first 6 picks in a LOADED rookie draft next season. Dynasty is right, bitches. Here’s to hoping that Bill Cowher ends up in Chicago so Forte becomes even more valuable
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
ditto on Cowher ending up in Chicago
actually, Ricky Williams and especially Thomas Jones were very reliable this season, each averaged almost 15 points a game
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 30, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
4 Team League?
"Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey.
The other ten percent I'll probably waste."
- Phillies pitcher Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary
Twelve
I went 10-3, one team went 9-4 and everyone else ended up from 5-7 to 7-5. Pretty balanced league actually.
We keep all players from year to year, hence the dynasty moniker. Our initial draft was in 2007, SJax was my first pick in that draft, with Brady, Campbell, Housh, Peterson, Clark, Daniels, and VJax coming later on. I got Rivers in a trade for Roddy White last year, and DeSean, Holmes, Slaton, Maclin, Forte, Freeman, Avery, and Choice in the rookie draft.
I like our league because you don’t get fucked by draft position every year and you get a chance to build for the future if you get screwed by injuries in a season. That same team, minus Rivers, Harvin, Maclin, and Avery went 4-9 last year believe it or not.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Bay at 16.5 Million per for 5 years?
I’m not seeing this in te comments above yet, so I’ll ask it here: Doesn’t this suck for us?
I mean, doesn’t that mean Holliday is likely to get at least 5 years at 18M, if not longer/more?
Or is there a glass half full way of looking at it?
glass half full -- it could have been so much worse.
the mets could have given bay a full five years (though i’m now hearing there’s a vesting 5th year at $14m).
the mets could have offered more money. this pushes us towards 5y/$90m, not towards 6y/$120.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
OK
Now I am seeing 4yrs at 16.5M per, which makes me feel better. To beat that, the Cards now have to go longer than 4 guaranteed, instead of longer than 5.
if vesting is at 14M
then aav goes down which is better for mo
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
It seems to me this whole affair has been played splendidly by Mo.
There was considerable foresight and restraint exercised by the front office going into this offseason. Even if the Cards don’t sign Holliday, I admire Mo for not being anyone’s pawn.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I think Mo has handled this well. No trash talk, no insults to Holliday, and an offer that no one seems willing to beat.
also
now that the paper has been signed, the cardinals don’t have to beat it. The Mets are out of the game, as long as Bay passes his physical. Now we’re playing against Atlanta, maybe SF, maybe Baltimore.
If only the Yankees would sign Damon…
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
atlanta don't have that kind of money
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
and san fran
don’t have that kind of money neither
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
was it really a surprise to anyone that he's a "pothead"?
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
timmay!
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose Timmeh is Kurkjian...
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
ohhhhh
but Kurkjian never looks baked
so why wouldn’t he be Timmeh?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
why the hell is phase 3 profit?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
because ????
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
If you only see one episode
of South Park in your life…it should be Underpants Gnomes.
* is an Asshat
I have seen that way too often
damn VEB meme makes me think it should be phase 4 though
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Holliday better sign with the Cards soon
before Allen Craig takes his job.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
ehhhhhhh derp a derp
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
This year has been a banner year for potheads.
First the greatest swimmer of all time, then the best pitcher in baseball.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
It's amazing to me that some kid would have tried weed once.
I’m not voting for them evar.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
>george h. w. bush whistles, looks nervous.<
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Dont forget Geo Soto!
no wonder he’s gaining weight!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 30, 2009 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
I do wonder if Boston
would say eff it and offer a shorter contract worth more per year. like a 3/60-ish deal.
gotta be boras' only hope
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
What does vesting mean anyway?
Just that the 5th year becomes guaranteed if he hits some threshold in the prior 4 years (such as games played)?
zackly
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
it also shows there really wasn't anybody else in on bay. it's been bay & the mets all the time.
if the yanks or the sox really wanted to get in on the negotiations, it would have dragged on longer.
by inference, the yanks and sox will also not likely want in on holliday. that leaves the cards with less competition and should make negotiation smoother.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
the question is... who's going to pay Holliday 5yr/90MM?
there’s not an infinite number of teams….part of contract value is timing, it’s not even necessarily true that better players (Holliday) will make more money than lesser players (Bay).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 29, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
and draft picks
The Cards have a genuine advantage because Mo can price the deal only in terms of money. Other potential bidders not only have to beat the Cards’ money, but surrender draft picks.
very good point
The mets were in a similar situation, though, since they were a losing team in ‘09. They didn’t give up a draft pick for Bay.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
they gave up a second-rounder. not bupkus, but yes, not a first round pick.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
that's probably correct
for some reason I thought the bottom 15 teams just gave up the supplemental pick. Makes more sense that they’d give up a second-rounder, plus a supplemental.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
5/90
was already what most people around here were realistically hoping for. Now there’s a chance we could get him for even a little less, maybe like 5/85. Besides, this eliminates one of the very few teams that Boras could use to drive up the bidding. Sox have retracted their offer, Orioles…eh…they don’t seem to want any part of a big contract. The Angels aren’t really a very logical fit for Holliday anymore. For once, I actually believe the Yankees when they say they aren’t interested (knock on wood). Who’s left?
I'm calling one more "Mystery Team" gambit
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I've been wondering about Atlanta
though IMO they would have to trade at least one of McLouth, McCann, or LaRoche to make it work.
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 29, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
LaRoche is a free agent currently.
And I think they’d have to be mad to get rid of McLouth and replace him with Holliday.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
McLouth
How’s his fielding?
Would they dump McLouth for a C-grade prospect just to free up the cash for Holliday? I’d be intrigued by adding a decent OBP bat in LF with speed for 5M/yr plus the draft picks we’d get back for Holliday, especially if it also gives us a D upgrade.
It'd be nuts to trade McLouth, who is reasonably cheap
for a prospect or two, then sign Holliday to big bucks and forfeit your first round pick.
The return on McLouth would have to blow me out of the water before I’d even consider that string of moves.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
They’re still a long-shot, but look at the moves they’ve made already. Dumping Vazquez gives them a lot of flexibility and now that the Bay deal set Holliday’s market a bit lower, it wouldn’t surprise me if they get aggressive.
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 29, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
The nail in the coffin for me
if I were the Braves, would be the draft pick. As madridbend mentioned above, Mo’s got the luxury of not having to worry about losing a pick. By extension, you would expect him to be willing to go higher than the Braves would, since any offer they make would be within the context of them losing a pick.
If that wasn’t clear: Braves sacrifice pick, so they’re not as willing to pay top dollar for Holliday; meanwhile, the Cards aren’t so timid since a pick sacrifice is not required of them. In fact, losing Holliday nets them that pick, so they’re even less worried about “losing” him.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
thought the braves already blew their draft pick? on wagner maybe?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
forgot about that
they’d still have to give up their second round pick
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
They also got a pick back for Mike Gonzalez
I believe.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
Holliday is top-rated Type A
so Cardinals would get first round pick from Atlanta. Atlanta would give up their second to Boston for Wagner, and Atlanta would still receive Baltimore’s first round for Gonzalez.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 30, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
It’d be nuts to trade McLouth, who is reasonably cheap
Tell that to Neal Huntington!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:12 AM EST up reply actions
HE WON A GOLD GLOVE !!!111!!!1
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Almost as bad in CF
compared to the average CF, as Adam Dunn, compared to the average LF.
Possibly the worst choice for a gold glove since Palmeiro.
But he’d probably be an OK LF, especially with Rasmus in CF.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
Yeah, I think he's about average in LF
perhaps even slightly above.
CHONE’s projection for his hitting is surprisingly bad, though, only 7 runs above average, which surprised me. I thought he’d be in the 15 range, although part of it might be the low PA projection (he’s only projected to take 488 PAs, which seems on the low side). I really like McLouth.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:15 AM EST up reply actions
actually
won GG as the worst UZR in all of baseball IIRC. Sky Kalkman did posts last year for every position, ranking each player by the different metrics. Shame nobody did it this year, I was really looking forward to those. BtB just isn’t the same with the new people in charge
/expands lboros meme to another SBN site.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Yankees?
I believe what I have heard – Cashman isn’t interested – but I really don’t understand why. Holliday seems like a good fit for them.
Maybe NY wants to drop out of the luxury tax briefly to get the lower rate when they go on their next spending binge. This would be a good year to shed payroll, given their recent success.
maybe , like the the birds,
their internal metrics only give him X dollars and that is already on the table from mo. so, they bow out. they are going to win anyway, so no big deal.
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
they are saving up
for mauer and crawford
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Agreed,
also, as Dave Cameron pointed out…yankees are already on the books for about 100 expected wins. Adding holliday would push that to 103, but are those 3 wins that important at that level? 5yr/80-90million important?
I just don’t think so. Add the fact, that some fantastic FAs are coming up in 2011, not to mention their own Captain, and I’d expect that they stay ‘relatively’ quiet—read: away from Matty Lego
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 30, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Do not believe what you have heard...
…and never count out the Yankees. The Bay deal took the Mets out of the running for Holliday, but I still see the Dark Side as our #1 – and probably only – competitor in these negotiations. Beware of the Dark Side.
and then add another 40% to that
Because that’s what they will be paying him. 8million/yr = 25mil cost to the Yanks.
* is an Asshat
Very high probability they will not...
…but they will outbid STL if they feel it is in their best interest, regardless of cost. Remember also, Holliday’s sub-par defensive skills give them a DH option, should they decide to pursue another premier OF FA (e.g., Crawford) next season.
I still think they want to keep that spot open.
You never know if A-Rod can still handle that position.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
And, That's what she said.
* is an Asshat
by RiverRat on Dec 29, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
……….
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
what? that was a great one!
one of the few actually amusing TWSS’s lately, IMO. Rec’d.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:19 AM EST up reply actions
in fairness, being a centaur seriously impacts your flexibility.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Very true
Can’t imagine trying to ground a ball, need to be Mr. Fantastic to get down there.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
depends...
its one less team “in” on him
by jealousblues on Dec 29, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
it kinda pisses me off. I already had his nickname picked out for next season
for when he butchers plays in LF:
E Bay
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
but I am not gonna sign up over at the Mets blog just to use that as often as I would like
or maybe I will
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Circa July 2010:
mattyfromqueens: Aaaaaarrrrggghhh! E Bay!
by arch support on Dec 30, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
And we still have options if we don't sign Holliday
Pineiro, Sheets, Smoltz, Lopez, Beltre.
I would be glad to sign 2 or more of those players, and they would cost the same or less than Holliday.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 29, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
jo-el has to hate this signing. less money in nueva york for him.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
does the bay signing
take the muts out of the race for pinata?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 30, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think the Cards
would’ve ever been in the race for Pinata. He’s going to ask for $10M or so a year, and we’ve already been down that road with Lohse (and look how that turned out). I don’t blame the Cards for not going after Jo-El. Frankly, I don’t see him being as good in the future.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Dec 30, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
yeah
I’d rather sign two than one (as long as Sheets is one of them)
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Survey says: YES
It probably takes the most erratic free-spending NL team out of the bidding, and sets a price a bit below what we think Mo has offered Holliday.
I'd say yes.
Barring a Yankee lie or a third team bidding, we’re all Holliday’s got. We need not increase our offer. And any prospective bidder might not be as eager to exceed our offer since he would also have to sacrifice a pick.
by arch support on Dec 29, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
I am believing the Yankees not being in on him , finally
I think it is down to the Cards and the Red Sox.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Sox have nowhere to play him
and, presumably, no money to sign him, now they’ve got Cameron, Scutaro and Lackey. I really don’t see the Sox in on this at all.
Barring some “mystery team” BS I think we’re bidding against ourselves (and possibly the Yankees, although all the noises point to the fact they really aren’t in on Holliday).
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:22 AM EST up reply actions
If the Yankees re-sign Damon...
…that would be better.
So is the Met’s signing Bay good for us?
Yes, because my big fear was the Mets signing him and us only getting a lousy 2nd rounder as a comp pick. I think NYM were the only team with a protected pick that could seriously sign him. I wouldn’t mind so much if he ended up in Yankee Stadium or Fenway.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:21 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmm...
What in the world goes on a New Years Eve playlist? I’m thinking about lots of old school R&B.
garth brooks - friends in low places
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
heresy.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
by SleepyCA on Dec 29, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think it is.
Although I – despite being explicitly told not to by Steve Perry – stopped believin’.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Dec 29, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
>web page fades immediately to black. song continues to play.<
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
so you're the one.
goddamit.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
the jesus lizard and some squarepusher if you ask me
maybe some jazz too
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
the new Download album called Helicopter is quite good too
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 29, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
cEvin key will definitely be on the tudor playlist
something from “the dragon experience” or doubting thomas stuff.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Dec 29, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
can't remember which song of off doubting thomas
but I really like it
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 30, 2009 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
squarepusher is a good idea
or throw a tin can full of ball-bearings down a long stairwell while manically squeaking a dog toy if you don’t have a squarepusher available. it’s the handyman’s squarepusher.
also if you add The Birthday Party to your NYE playlist, I’ll personally show up.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Dec 29, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
gonna be at the Metro seeing Jesus Lizard live wooooooooo
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 30, 2009 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
I'm throwing on some LCD Soundsystem when it's my turn to pick.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
The song in my sig needs to be played at midnight
specifically for the 2010 reference
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 30, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
Now that Bay has signed w/ the Mets
does that mean that the Cards have a better chance at getting Holliday?
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
i hadn't thought of it like that
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Now this...
is the kind of alternative perspective I need VEB to provide me. Thanks, zz.
by mynameistyler on Dec 29, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
the zoomzoom i know would have made a stupid comment in a way that was more apropos
you’re just not trying anymore.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Dec 29, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
OH BURN WE GOT TOLD
DeRosa said he always enjoyed playing in San Francisco and the Giants showed the greatest interest in him. "I was just tired of being a lot of team’s plan B," he said. "I wanted to go to a place where I felt comfortable and the team wanted me and needed me to be productive. I just felt this was a good spot. I didn’t want to wait around and get caught in a situation where I’d have to go somewhere I didn’t want to go."
well screw you rosy, see if you’re invited to any hot-tubbing ever again
Just now on 101:
“You always want to go where the pitching is.”
OH AND EXPECT SOME LUGGAGE IN THE MAIL
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 6:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
(no he wasn't effing with our staff, but he was praising the SF staff)
the above is a partial quote, the longer quote has cute little baby sounds in the background.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
probably more like
“holy shit, some team actually thinks my age 35-36 seasons are worth $6M/year to them? Quick, lets sign before the drugs wear off !!!”
Anyway, now that Welle and DeRosa are gone, do we have any ex-cubs that might possibly keep us from winning in the post-season in ’10?
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
that cu'board's bare
no, dude, he sounded all hurt and waah.
ooh dang, he said I played hurt for you guys! you gave up all those prospects for me, so I… I… I played with an ouchie… sniff.
ok, not quite that, but DeRo always sounds really slick. you gotta listen for his tone of voice.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
don't take my word for it
the audio has got to be out there somewhere. wish I could find it
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
what show was it on?
its probably here somewhere: http://www.101espn.com/public/blogAttachment/media/audio/24
whatever was on at that hour
Fast Lane? I’m not a reg. listener.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
aha, the goodreporter was on the conference call
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
unpunctuated url pun for FTW!
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
hehe awesome
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:24 AM EST up reply actions
he's turning japanese
I think he’s turning japanese.
I really think so.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:25 AM EST up reply actions
is Welley officially gone?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
just make sure he stays there until after the season starts
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
hook up the XBox
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I am lost ( again)
what does this mean?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
found it!
Goold’s 10@10
first day
Lagniappe question: What Cardinal was at a Houston-area mall here for the midnight release of the latest edition of the Halo video game? He was happy to find a Halo tournament going on when he arrived.
second day
Lagniappe answer from a few days ago: The HALO midnight king … Todd Wellemeyer.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, yeah
fun times, fun times.
I will personally buy Welley a new XBox if he does not sign with the Cards.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
umm, he takes you up on that offer!
i will send you my his address so you can send it along!
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
oh, boo hoo.
"St. Louis — they spent a couple prospects to get me, and I did what was necessary at the time," DeRosa said this afternoon. "Looking back on it, I don’t know if I would have the same thing.
i’m guessing the missing word is “done” after “have” in the last sentence.
while you can’t blame him for hurting his tendon sheath a week after we traded two great pitching prospects for him, he also can’t blame us for not wanting to pay a premium for his services. if he hasn’t figured out why we didn’t leap at the chance to sign a wounded 35-year old, then he can whine his way to san fran.
i’m sure it’s no fun to be a plan B, but if you want to not be a plan B you have to be able to play your way into NOT being a plan B.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
alright Beltre fans, Sox quietly tawkin
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=4779997
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think they will sign him anyway
A platoon at DH isn’t that bad of an idea considering Lowell’s and Ortiz’s fragility at this stage in their respective careers.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I get the feeling Lowell will barely play next year anyway.
They might as well keep him as a bench backup. I know I’ve said it before, but Beltre and the RedSox make so much sense for one another I almost can’t see it not happening! He’s a much better fit for them than Holliday.
If they sign Beltre they’re arguably in the running for being the best defensive team in the majors.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:27 AM EST up reply actions
i got all distracted, but IT'S ON NOW
Sources: Boras started doubling back to teams to talk about Holliday. Stated asking price in at least one conversation was $18 mill. a year
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
aw link fail.
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/7175709921
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
hah!
$18MM is the asking price?
mo, you handsome devil you really are going to pull off a good deal here
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
shhhh!
let the man work
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
me too!
no, no wait… wait… he’s separating the toppings on his pizza.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
pizza pie?
it’s all making sense now
Mo is one sly bastard
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
timeline of future events.
january 5th – joe strauss puts out an article stating that the new asking price for holliday is 9 years, at $23m AAV
january 9th – holliday signs for 5 years, $15m AAV with a 6th year club option for $10m.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Balls of steel, Mo!
Wait for the Yanks to either sign Holliday (and give us that draft pick), or sign a different LF.
And once they do (sign a different LF), drop the Holliday offer to 4yrs/60M!!!!!
gut-check at MLBTR chat says 80% chance holliday signs w/ STL.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
random thoughts
1. Sidebar says yanks indicate zero chance of signing holliday. What is the point of ever taking your name out of the equation if you are the Yanks? Shouldn’t you always want to run the price up just to limit other teams’ ability to sign more players? after all, aren’t they all playing for the same prize?
2. BP has a sobering article up on the value of long term free agent contracts. Makes me feel like I’d rather take my chances with Allen Craig and sign some more Dominican Republic pitchers.
Just win
hence H's dad's comments
“don’t believe anything you read or hear”.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
i agree
same reason why i though it was weird mo was stating he was completely out on bay
i wonder if there is some quiet collusion going on
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Just saw Avatar in 3D
It was pretty epic. I felt weird after the movie though like I was stoned or something.
But 10% of the time it was 100% awesome
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
I totally agree
The plot may not have been special, but I was thoroughly entertained.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
The movie might not hold up as well over time
But I don’t remember saying “Wow” as much during a movie.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
It was a movie meant for 3-d
And i totally agree with the sentiment. I found myself jealous and wanting to be in that place.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
3D is hugely underwhelming
1940s technology FTW.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:29 AM EST up reply actions
i kept looking in the mirror afterwards
expecting to see myself 10 feet tall and blue.
/very disappointed this did not happen
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 30, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Might?
It’s worthless after one viewing IMO. I have zero desire to ever see it again, but it was entertaining for that one time.
Not afraid to nitpick
Jurassic Park had a plot
I think it was OK, tbh. I liked the book a lot better.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
It was 100x less predictable than Avatar at the very least
Yeah, everyone knew the main guys were gonna get out just like everyone knew what was gonna happen in Avatar, but within 10 minutes I could pretty much tell you exactly how that was gonna happen in Avatar.
Not afraid to nitpick
That sums it up the most for me. Entertainment
all in all, I was engaged the entire time, and found myself a bit speechless afterwards. The movie was simply and utterly, entertaining.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 30, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
FWIW, my brother saw it the second time with me (my first)
and he said he was able to pick up a whole lot more of the minutia and sheer volume of details that was poured into the movie. Said it was less ‘distracting’ and even more engaging.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 30, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Is there an hour delay of T.V. in real time?
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 29, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
right now CST
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
From the WWL
There is increased optimism within the St. Louis Cardinals organization that the team is going to reach a deal with free-agent outfielder Matt Holliday, sources told ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney on Tuesday.
I love this quote, thanks Goold
a pizza usually loaded with pepperoni, sausage and fistfuls of vegetables, exactly the way John Mozeliak likes it — without the mushrooms, onions and green peppers inconveniencing the meat.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
He doesn't like vegetables or other edible products,
inconveniencing the steely taste of victory.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Dec 29, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i wonder how he feels about bacon.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
As long as it's wrapped around steel cable,
I assume he tolerates it.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Listen to all you guys
Jason Bay’s agent wilts like a snowman, and suddenly it gives our gm Testicles DeTitanium? Where’s that hard-ass crowd that I’ve come to expect here?
tsk, tsk.
nah
4Y/66M is a best-case scenario for Bay. That’s overpaying on the level of H getting 5/120.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
I'm still waiting to see the explanation of
how the Bay contract (which overvalues his production and horrid defense) makes the Holliday situation better. I was pretty dismayed by the terms from that contract if it sets any kind of a baseline for Holliday.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I am more worried about the years right now than the dollar amount per year
Holliday is not an 8 year player. That would be like saying he is twice as good as Lohse.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
uhm
he probably is, right? i mean, Lohse is terrible. it doesn’t take much to be twice as good.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
yeah what
horrible analogy
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
People are enthralled
that the only tangible threat to landing Holliday is now subdued. Holliday, no matter what bs Boras wants to pull, has no leverage now, and the Cardinals have a lot more than they did yesterday.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Yeah
And the Cardinals have no leverage against Holliday because there’s zero viable backup plans. A Gabe Gross platoon or whatever isn’t really going to cut it. Who else are they going to put in LF?
Not afraid to nitpick
Let's assume you are correct for a second
How can Boras justify raising the price? Nobody can pay it that is interested (Nobody is interested), so I don’t see how Boras gains any leverage.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
That is how I see it also
We would be essentially bidding against ourselves. We don’t need Holliday.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
They are actually going to put Craig as a starting LFer?
They wouldn’t even give him a call-up last year and the only FA guys left are a bunch of 1 Win scrubs.
Hell if the Red Sox were in on Bay to some degree still, I’m sure they’d be in on Holliday on a cushy deal. The Mariners’ payroll is less than 80M if they so desired. Holliday at 5/80 is easily an asset which means it’s gonna take more than that.
Not afraid to nitpick
I was listening to this baseball show on sirius/xm today
and the host of this show actually said that Bay was a above average LF. His reasons were that he played LF in Fenway, made no errors, and caught everything he got to. He also added that since he had 15 assists last season, it proved that he had a good OF arm. Oh, and he added that he didn’t see how moving to a more spacious in CitiField would make much of a difference.
When I got home today I vowed to never listen to that particular show again, and I also sent off a resume to their baseball broadcast division.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
it was the MLB Live Late Edition Show
so according to programming, it should have been Joe Castellano. How do these people keep their jobs?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Because for every stathead reading FanGraphs
There’s 100 dudes who think the Cards screwed up by not bringing back Miles.
And those are the guys these broadcasters cater to.
by arch support on Dec 30, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Manny had 17 assists in the same LF in 2005
does that make him a good fielder too? lmao, who is this guy, chip caray’s new color man?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 30, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
no.
Fe3C, not Ti
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I was told there would be no chemistry
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
twss?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Mo eats this pizza:
Because he’s HARD AS NAILS.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I drink it up!!!!
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Ghost lab is doing
the Lemp Mansion in St. Louis and then the McPike Mansion in alton. I normally change the channel after dirty jobs. But I guess I’ll watch this one.
had a nice lunch there
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
They have good fried chicken.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Dec 29, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
that is some lame provoking.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
i'm sorry, even that one with the british bint who's always screeching
does better provoking than that. I mean, some of the things they’re searching for are audio — so wtf yelling and then moving on? how d’you expect to hear anything?
or hear the dude who’s crawling around the attic trying to fuck with you.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
well fuck dude
we’re sorry the neighborhood is so noisy!!
when did they film this? why don’t they do this at past midnight like all the other shows.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
whatever. bring on the plumbers from Jersey.
they drive their own van.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
shame on you Discovery
there is no science here. just a bunch of motorcycle gang rejects.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
we're gonna do some provoking to see if we get a response
I bet he says that in bed too
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
after this Holliday back and forth
i don’t even know how i’d feel about him if he did sign with us
either you want to be a Cardinal or you don’t but you don’t play around testing Mo’s balls of steel (pun intended)
it's a guy thing
they’ve got to test each other’s nuts before they jump back in the stew.
or… something.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
He has a short window to make his money
I don’t blame him for trying to get as much as he can out of it.
plus, Holliday signed on with Boras before he even met the cardinals
would be plumb rude to expect H to dump B without at least letting B play a bit.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
As long as he doesn't blow anymore playoff games
he’s cool.
by Mister Eff on Dec 29, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
can we put that clause in the contract?
switch him to league minimum…?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you're saying Boog really will end up in the hospital?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
in-joke
every time we saw them do the flying chest-bump, Boog would automatically get broken ribs etc
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
teeeheee
giant lego is made of hard plastic
In 1963, cellulose acetate, the plastic material used to create LEGO bricks, was dropped in favor of a more stable material. Cellulose acetate was known to have problems with discoloration and warping; its successor was acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, or ABS plastic, which is still used as of 2003. ABS had a number of additional advantages over cellulose acetate: it is more resistant to heat, acids, salt, and other chemicals, and is non-toxic.
but not flyballs, it seems.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
no, they bounce right off!
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
needs to be corrected to
it is more resistant to flyballs, heat, acids, salt, and other chemicals
i’ll call Lego
that is a funny question, though...
because even when Boog does something right, he gets in trouble.
like:
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/9/8/1021792/the-game-where-boog-is-awesome
and:
"and Boog’s still happy to be here has the disposition of a golden retriever so I’m not worried his opinion."
that’s the secret to getting out of the doghouse.
you have to like sleeping there.
- tom s.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
looking for something at Goold's and found this oldie
In case anyone was wondering about Skippy’s butt.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/bird-land/2008/02/skip-reyes-edmonds-on-swat-detail/
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
FULL OF (MARBLES)
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Goold is adorable, isn't he
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
he's full of (marbles)
if i do one thing in this lifetime, i will make that a meme
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
EL OH EL
Garcia learned after his session from a veteran catcher that he’s tipping his curveball, which happens to be his best pitch.
* is an Asshat
i am so tempted to do a search for "tipping" over there
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
asshat: hat for your ass? or ass on your hat?
discuss.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
wearing your ass as a hat
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Albert and Matt will live on for years according to THT
Two cool articles on aging. Money quotes about big stars:
“In the modern era, the player with a long and prosperous career peaks at 30 stays relatively stable until age 33, declines gradually (around two or three runs per year) after that until age 38, and then declines by around five runs per year after that.”
Argues that Matt and Albert will be worth the long term contract — makes me feel better about spending $200 million for the two fo them.
Just win
Albert's favorite player was Julio Franco.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
AJ's already warmed up with Shelby...
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
looks like the D-Backs landed johnson.
did they tender an offer to conor jackson? that was a name that got knocked around earlier.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
kelly? reed? randy?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Walter
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
sorry. kelly. $2m. per rotoworld.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
$2m, jeebus
we’re really missing out on some crazily cheap FA signings out there. $2m for a guy who’s basically almost guaranteed to be average or a bit better in a couple of different positions.
If Holliday doesn’t sign, it’ll kinda suck we missed the boat on some of these. I’d have loved to have grabbed Johnson and Glaus for a combined $5m, Cameron for what he signed on for in Boston, Harden for what he signed in Texas, and we’d still have cash to add a Smoltz or a Sheets.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:38 AM EST up reply actions
this ain't that kind of blog...!
oh. nevermind.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
rotoworld
is now saying the Cardinals are going to offer Holliday a contract with $16 Mil AAV. I think he has to get more than Bay right? 5/$80 doesn’t sound like it would fly. Mayb3 6/$96. Or maybe incentives?
freakin lowballers...
they should offer 6/100 with some kind of vesting option and be done with it. I know it’s important for a middle-tier team to avoid overpaying, but 2010 is going to be unwatchable with Ludwick and Rasmus as Pujols’ top two lieutenants
MB for LF in 2010!
wat
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
nevermind
if I kept reading i would have found out it could be for 8 years. So the 8/$128 might be back on the table.
no, no, it's all wrong
there are no dates on this “report”. I think it’s passing off the past two months as current news.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
I see now way Holliday gets 8 years
I think he’s looking at 6 guaranteed at about 16-17m per year. I could see 6/100, and I’d be happy with that, personally.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:39 AM EST up reply actions
bay's agent
did a very good job
looks like 5 for 16 aav
some minor increase in years and/or aav should get holliday. why would anyone pay more?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
hang on
It’s from the Mothership, and some of those facts look older than last year’s fruitcake.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
that’s pretty much the exact same article they posted like three weeks ago when we go the first midnight tweet
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
i don't remember much from that night
lots of unicorns… there were… memes?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
oh god there was whispering, wasn't there?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
from Colby's ear to yours
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
!!!
crap
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
hell no
this is the chump who got stuck without vacation days
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 29, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
it certainly sounds familiar...
here’s what doesn’t make sense: if i’m mo, and i want to up my offer using bay’s framework as ‘what the market is currently dictating,’ i don’t offer twice the years that the mets gave bay.
i offer five years. if i already offered five, i go six. and i definitely don’t go over bay’s AAV; holliday said in fall ‘09 that the years/no-trade is most important to him. if it’s a five or six-year contract, the numbers still look gaudier than bay’s (even if they sit slightly lower, say 16 mil/yr).
it seems awfully likely to me that boras won’t settle for anything south of $100 mil; and i’d offer 6 years, 100 million exactly. what’s the AAV? 16.67 mil; or just north of bay’s.
am i crazy, or do those numbers seem… reasonable?
by RedbirdAvenger on Dec 29, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
I make no diagnoses of your mental health
but those numbers do seem reasonable for all involved parties.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:40 AM EST up reply actions
Actually
I’d go 5Y$80M with a vesting option for a 6th year at $16M and a no trade clause
OR
6Y$96M without a no-trade clause.
Let him decide what’s more important to him — one more guaranteed year or a no trade clause.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
OT: and I hate going this far off topic
but somehow it doesn’t seem the same without gdm here, and I think I found the reason why he is not around.
He found this article on line and booked a flight.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 11:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That is nothing at all
I was watching the news tonight and saw the name of a VEBer flash on the screen for murder! I know a bunch of VEBers real names from selling T-shirts. I half expected to see his mug shot with a VEB shirt on. But since it was over Crack I am not so sure it is the same guy.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
reason #2 why gdm is no longer around?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 29, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if their is a cold hand bias?
My doctor was Indian as a child and had the coldest hands ever.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 29, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Funny
One can only wonder what kind of self-selection bias there might be in taking measurements ONLY from guys who have volunteered to have their penises measured.
Separately, what kind of hassle is it to have to go see a CHEMIST to buy a condom. Jeez….the chemist’s union must retain some pretty good lobbyists. What else are they in charge of dispensing?
Over 1,200 volunteers from the length and breadth of the country had their penises measured precisely
oh, come on!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
replay fail!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 29, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
lol
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
pon de replay?
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 6:41 AM EST up reply actions
This seems a little harsh
7. Kyle Lohse, SP, Cardinals; 3 years, $32 million remaining. After Lohse turned in a career-best year for the Cardinals in 2008, St. Louis thought it prudent to extend him a 4-year, $41 million deal. However, 2008 was a fluke and in 2009 he reverted to the pitcher who was pounded for a 4.84 ERA from 2001 through 2007. Now that the mirage of his 15-6 season is gone, the Cards are stuck with paying big money for a No. 5 starter for the next three years.
Trade Outlook: Unlikely. Lohse has a full no-trade clause, so it will be difficult for the Cardinals to move him.
I can't get to the article...
who is ranked ahead of him?
I don’t think it’s an awful contract, but look at what we could have spent the $9M he’ll make in 2010 in this free agent market….eeeesh.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
1. Wells
2. Soriano
3. Zito
4. Silva
5. O Perez
6. Matthews Jr
7. Lohse
8. Rowand
9. Pierre
10. Bradley
I think
the list should have included only 6 players. Lohse may work out badly, but it’s too soon to say. And Rowand, et. al., are not terrible players (like the first six) – just overpaid ones.
Lohse's deal makes me believe
that the Cards not going after Pineiro is a smart move. Pineiro wants $10M or so a year, and they’ve already been down that road. Best not to try it again, especially with Holliday possibly signing with us.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Dec 30, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Pierre and Rowand's contracts
are worse than Lohse when you look at the market for those type of players. Bradley shouldn’t even be on this list, imo.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
who is wells?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 30, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
vernon wells, right?
Am I missing the sarcasm? I sometimes have trouble with this.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Yes, Vernon Wells
although it could be argued that any contract given to Kip Wells is the worst contract in baseball.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
in soviet russia
kip wells pays YOU to play baseball!!
As it should be.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 31, 2009 3:46 AM EST up reply actions
I was just going to defend Lohse above
where someone called him terrible, but was too lazy. Anyway, guess I’ll do it here: It makes no sense to judge Lohse based solely on last year’s performance. He was injured most of the year, still put up a not completely awful 4.55 FIP, and underperformed that FIP to boot. You have to consider 2008 as well, when he put up a very decent 3.89 FIP. Now, I concede that’s probably a career year for him, but under Dave Duncan I believe he has the ability to be somewhere around the mean of those two FIPs, meaning we could see a nice rebound from him this year. Furthermore, if that does happen and he sustains a performance near that level for the duration of his contract, it means that contract, while not being great, is really not all that terrible. One less years sure would’ve been nice, though.
by mattyp on Dec 30, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 30, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
you should never judge a contract until it is over
this is why I still don’t think that Carp’s contract was a TERRIBLE one. I won’t tempt fate any longer and will now end this comment.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
yeah, it's a horrible contract in context for us
but in true value terms it’s NOTHING LIKE as bad as some of the other ones. Worse than Jason Schmidt? Really?
He’s averaged about 2 WAR per season for his career and (until last year) been very durable. The contract pays him as a 2 WAR player. Sure, you shouldn’t pay $10m for 2 WAR as a mid-market team (especially when you have young, cost-controlled pitchers who figure to provide similar output in future for a fraction of the cost) but it’s really not a total rip-off.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 31, 2009 3:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be more inclined to comment
if I knew what the eff nertlerb is.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
WAY too much time.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Follow me on Twitter: @zoomzoomj88
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
by zoomzoomj88 on Dec 30, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
i told you guys to let it die
but noooooo.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 30, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
my point stands
this is exactly how it exploded. lots of people took the time to comment that it sucked, which then got some contrary posters on the cow’s side. it would’ve been ignored otherwise.
now the only thing stopping it is the drunk-posting postulate — it’s too hard to spell when smashed.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 30, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
it has
“rediculous” for one did not catch for that reason. slama lama ding dong was rather quickly truncated, despite a good run. it’s less noticeable for terms in general conversation, but something for game-time situations? short and sweet has more staying power.
commas, on the other hand,
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 30, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'm ALL Holstein, Baby!
100% All-American BEEF! Where’s the Beef? Why its right here, thank you very much!
;=8)
oh, and nertlerb.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
100% american my ass
look at your family tree, i’m sure you’re at least quarter loony
by d-dee on Dec 30, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no
all you need is one comment. it’s not the people who don’t comment, it’s the threads that take up space in the post that draw attention to it. it was on its way out when people felt the need to jump on it. then it became a Thing.
same concept as troll-feeding. if y’all take the bait, don’t anybody be surprised if it gains momentum.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 30, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
go ahead and read all my comments
I just tell people not to feed ’em. They go forth and do it anyway.
Besides, how do you know I’m not all for it? I’ve never said anything one way or another. You could be walking into it right now….
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 30, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
But you're still drawing attention to it.
And I haven’t made a critical comment about it, either.
Now with extra feisty!
Surely...
…the VEB universe is big enough for ONE worthless, meaningless cow-inspired meme???
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
but you're still commenting to me
and you’re still commenting to MooCow.
you’re missing my point besides — it’s not about critical comments. the currency on the internet is attention.
it’s throwing water on a grease fire. I don’t particularly care if this thread blows up or not. but people who want threads or memes to stop and then can’t bring themselves to stop commenting…
just looking at the shape and function of this board, and the way comment threads do not collapse… I have seen so many memes just die because everyone ignores ‘em. the opposite is true. just sayin’.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
but still more points!
or in Europe… “comma”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
help you, or help VEB's collective sanity?
if you’re asking me, I don’t even like the bacon meme. and I like bacon. especially maple / smoked.
if you’re asking the meme-hobbyist… well. use your commooon sense.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
OMG I get it. You're the one who seems to not get it.
You keep commenting that people should stop commenting! There’s irony there, buddy!
Now with extra feisty!
lol, yeah, because
as stated above, I don’t actually care if people stop commenting to this thread.
thus, I keep commenting. what’s your excuse?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
all I do is tell them
if you want it to stop, then stop commenting about it.
which… is what I said above. ain’t no irony there, just plain fact.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
So you don't care, which is why you comment.
At best, you’re being obnoxious.
Now with extra feisty!
I seriously have no idea what his subthread is about
I even read to the top and I just have no idea.
me neither, anymore
apparently pointing out the obvious is being obnoxious? or maybe it’s explaining why it’s obvious. i dunno.
irony?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
mmmmmm.
grease.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 31, 2009 3:49 AM EST up reply actions
Ode to Mark DeRosa
There once was a player named Mark
Who we hoped would give our offense a spark
But he played badly for the Cards
So we’ll send our regards
As he makes his way to AT&T Park.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Dec 30, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
There Once Was a Player Named Rosa
for whom we traded our closah
He screwed up his wrist
and left us all pissed
We’d have been better off with a toastah.
ok, not really.
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Dec 30, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
if you changed “with” to “screwing” or “with dick in” or something, that’d be about perfect. VEB self-reference FTW.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 30, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
busttterrrrrrr
I’ll crosspost this to the HSP. from buster to mlbtr
- Despite preliminary talks, Olney finds a Padres extension for Adrian Gonzalez to be “very, very unlikely.”
- The Dodgers “are in the chase” for free agent starter Joel Pineiro, with the Angels and Mets other suitors. The Dodgers were first linked to Pineiro by MLB.com’s Ken Gurnick on December 8th. With a chunk of the Juan Pierre savings already spent on Jamey Carroll, Pineiro seems out of their price range.
- Olney guesses that Matt Holliday will ultimately sign for five years and $82.5-85MM, with options and/or incentives that could “dress it up as a deal that could be worth over $100MM.”
- The Orioles continue to hunt for a pitcher and corner infielder. I should note that they were initially linked to Pineiro, but maybe the $9MM committed to Kevin Millwood takes them out of the mix. An Erik Bedard reunion could be a possibility.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the vote for All-Decade Catcher!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Matheny was great and all.
And he’ll always be well remembered. But I don’t know how you couldn’t vote for Yadi.
He caught the pitch that won the World Series!
NLCS Game 7 winning home run!
Come on!
by arch support on Dec 30, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Also -
quite a bit better than Matheny, IMO.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 31, 2009 3:51 AM EST up reply actions
Completely OT, but worth a mention:
Complete series of News Radio on sale for $30. Worth it just for all the Phil Hartman.
Now with extra feisty!
and get it with free two-day shipping
by signing up for a trial offer of Amazon Prime (it rocks). Instructions here, but if you do it make sure to follow the directions for turning off auto-upgrade so you don’t get charged at the end of the trial period
Dave Foley was great on that show as well...
I already own it or I’d have already bought this one.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
New story out
on Holliday…..saying the Cards offered 8 @ 17.5AAV, and that Holliday is holding out for 18.
* is an Asshat
I refuse to believe anything from someone
who think Penny was a Pennant Race rotation mainstay for the Dodgers last season.
If Holliday really is intent on 100M + or Boras really thinks he can get 8/160…well, nice knowing you Matt.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
oh it's that crazy guy with the hat
didn’t we say something about him during the Colorado series?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
The Baltimore offer seems particularly ludicrous given the players they currently have control over.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Nothing in that article reads like truth.
I think his “sources” are full of shit.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Does this make any sense?
Holliday has indicated an interest if the term is reduced to seven years, the sources said
* is an Asshat
needs more comma?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
nooooo, there are no sources cited.
when he says “MLB source”, that sounds like that Mothership article (above) that we determined was a rehash.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh
I don’t trust that feller, but it better not be true. I mean, considering its likely that no other team is even actively bidding on him anymore, offering him that contract would be ludicrous. Mo’s got more sense than that, I think.
It still wouldn't surprise me
if Holliday signs somewhere else for more per year and fewer years – one gets the idea is ego is quite large (tho not as large as the Moo Cow – :)
Baltimore, meanwhile, did make an eight-year, $130 million offer to Holliday, and general manager Andy MacPhail did discuss the possibility of arranging a meeting between himself, Orioles owner Peter Angelos and Holliday in Austin, Tex., where Holliday is living in the offseason.
I call shenanigans. How come if the O’s made a huge, blockbuster contract offer to Holliday it was never reported anywhere else? You’re telling me all the beat writers and club reporters in Baltimore didn’t get wind of this, but some douche who thinks Brad Penny played for the Dodgers last season did?
I would be amazed if Holliday landed a $130m contract with neither NYY or BOS apparently involved.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 31, 2009 3:56 AM EST up reply actions
maybe Baltimore doesn't rate club reporters....?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'm looking for a mention of Ringolsby and his hat
and come across several gems. like this:
colby and lugo having an apparently riveting conversation
by slu on Sep 26, 2009 8:19 PM CDT
That had to be one of the best conversations ever.
by ClemsonGirl on Sep 26, 2009 8:20 PM CDT
it was mostly with the eyes
by Yadi2Second on Sep 26, 2009 8:20 PM CDT
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
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