A Trip to Arby's
by the red baron on Dec 2, 2009 2:27 PM EST
429 comments
Hello, everyone. I hope this Wednesday finds you all well.
I decided to put off beginning my look around the NL Central series again this week, seeing as how there is actual, somewhat interesting news to discuss, so it'll just have to wait. The arbitration offers are in, and the Cardinals made offers to three of their four compensation-eligible players. Holliday, Jo-El Pineiro, and Mark DeRosa received offers, while the Cards declined to offer it to Troy Glaus.
I can't really find fault with declining to offer Glaus arbitration, as he's basically a more extreme version of Braden Looper last year. Looper, you'll recall, was eligible to be a Type B free agent, and the Cardinals decided not to make an offer to him and forfeit the draft pick. There was much consternation at the time over the lost draft pick, but at the same time, one couldn't ignore the risk of Looper accepting the arby offer and the Cards being hung with a pitcher they neither particularly wanted nor, to be completely frank, had the space to hold on to. The rest of the story, of course, is Looper went and signed himself a deal with Milwaukee as they attempt to construct some sort of Frankenstein situation composed entirely of former Cardinals mid-rotation starters. Looper then proceeded to have himself a rather awful year, complete with an ERA+ of 77. (Of course, he somehow also managed to go 14-7, so draw your own conclusions.)
As for Glaus, he seems to be all the downside of Looper, but with almost none of the upside. Glaus is on the wrong side of 30, so it isn't as if he's getting better, his health is still a significant concern, and he was frankly less than impressive in the modest number of late-season plate appearances he managed in 2009. If an arby offer had been floated to Glaus, I have absolutely no doubt he would have accepted, and that would not have been a good thing. At this point, I'm not sure he's going to be able to play third base on an everyday basis due to his shoulder problems, and the Cardinals have no need of a right-handed 1B/PH making $5 million+ a year.
On the other hand, I don't think there's any chance in hell of any of the other three accepting their offers. Holliday we know about, and he'll be playing the field for quite a while still before landing in Boston. This is likely the last chance for either Pineiro or DeRosa to land a sizable, multi-year deal, and I have to think both will take advantage of the situation. I suppose there's always the chance Mark of the Rose accepts, looking at it as a one year deal to prove his wrist is sound and he's worth one last three year hurrah somewhere, but I would be a bit surprised. Even if he did go that way, having DeRosa back on one year deal for middling money wouldn't be a bad outcome at all. The dollars aren't really the issue here anyway. The real issue is one would prefer not to offer 34 year old players three year deals if it can be avoided, and arbitration does so quite nicely.
Pineiro will get his money somewhere, and he's welcome to it. We'll always have New York, Jo-El. Thanks for the memories. Also, could I get an autograph? I want the caption to read, "Moar sinkers, men, and into the breach we go! Love, El Pinata." That would be sweet.
All in all, I think the whole arby thing played out about how most of us expected. The Cards made offers to the three players they felt they can trust to refuse it or be worth the deal if accepted, and declined the one player likely to accept and be a drain on resources in 2010. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best and all that.
So how about it, Birdos? Any thoughts on the arbitration situation? I feel bad, because it's probably already been covered somewhere around here, but I had a radiator hose in my car split on me, so I've been dealing with that this morning and got an even later start than usual on this. In hindsight, I should have just gone ahead and put up the Cubs piece early, since it's already done, but I wanted to at least maintain the illusion I'm paying attention.
The Baron's Playlist for the 2nd of December, 2009
"Cuddly Toy" - Harry Nilsson
"Little Secrets" - Passion Pit
"Jacqueline" - The Coral
"Minnie the Moocher" - Cab Calloway
"Somebody Else" - Kubb
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ha
you got fisted by SBN…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
braden looper is a WINNAR because he went 14-7!!!!! ZOMG HOW DID WE MISS OUT! WHO HAS EGG ON THEIER FACE NAO!!?!?!?!
/bryan burwell
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Wow.
It’s eerie. How long did it take you to perfect that impression, Tom? Now all you need is a bomb dropping sound effect and you’ll have his radio career down pat as well.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 2, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
And I wonder why Parris is no longer his cohost on 101
That show took a huge hit with Parris leaving, but I do wonder which of them made the decision to split.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
This may be a dumb thought on my part
But I keep wondering how Craig would do at 2nd base. sure, it’ll never happen. But I find the idea interesting.
only with less prick-ishness...
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
hmm...that seems bullish for craig
and what i think is a little conservative for rasmus
i think colby will be .270/20+/80+ while playing really good centerfield next season
If craig can hit 25 homers and take a few walks, i say see you later holliday
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
whoever provides what part
if we get that combined production from the two…hell yeah.
i’m more bullish on craig than most seem to be, but i’m with you – i’d slide 5-10 % of craig’s offensive output over into colby’s column.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Lopez and Damon
These are the two guys I think the Cards should target. I especially think that Lopez makes sense at 3B and 2B to platoon with Freese and Skip. Good to see that neither were offered arb.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
Damon has rather large home vs away splits
915 – Home
.795 – Away.
That nice Yankee porch loves left handers
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 2, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I've seen that and think it has some merit.
But there are some pretty short RF porches in the NL Central as well. PIT, HOU, and CIN all have short fences in RF and Wrigley is small in the right-center power alley. I have no doubt that Damon would see some of his 09 numbers slide but his OBP would look really nice in the 2 spot, would it not? He would also see a ton of fastballs in that spot.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
What is the average player's home/road split?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 2, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
.795 would make him, what, the second best hitter on the Cards?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 2, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
If you think a 36 year old can repeat that performance
in a league he’s never played in, when that’s basically his career average OPS as a whole, by all means, sign him to a 2Y$18M offer. He’ll get Abreu money and he’s probably better than Abreu at this point, but I’m a little scared by his home road splits and his 2007 OPS of .747.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
he is excellent though vs righties
He is the best platoon partner out there for Craig
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 2, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
wasn't he playing hurt
all of 2007? He was relegated to 1B and DH due to an injury, I thought.
Kind of a weird response to my point, no?
My point was really that if we don’t sign Holliday, our second-best hitter and on down kind of, um, suck.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 2, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
We can't go rewind to 2008 though can we?
You’re saying he’d be our second best hitter if we don’t sign Holliday. Which is true, if you think he can repeat that performance at age 36, in a league he’s never played in, moving to a pitcher’s park for his home games.
I think my response is directly related to your point.
You’re also making the assumption that Ludwick isn’t going to improve next year, which I think is likely, and that Rasmus doesn’t have a breakout season.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
according to Bill James, 2010 wOBA projections for our non-Albert hitters:
Damon: .348 in 631 PAs
Ludwick: .353 in 559 PAs
Rasmus: .330 in 518 PAs
I didn’t dig out the CHONEs yet. If I were a betting man, I’d probably guess that all three are a little pessimistic, though I think James probably pegged Luddy about right, he’s also about the least predictable of the three IMO.
Basically, Lud and Damon look like much of a muchness, Rasmus a little lower. Again, I’d be surprised if Colby doesn’t put up .340+.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
I really think that Rasmus could break out with a big year
for these reasons:
- He seems to need a good smattering of AB’s to get adjusted and he got them last year.
- His illness really set him back in the middle of the season.
- Hal McRae is gone and I think Hal fucked up his approach; I believe Mac will just leave him alone
- He’ll get to play pretty much every day with Ankiel being gone.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yeah I agree
he just looked really good at the plate, too, especially at the end of the year. FWIW, CHONE doesn’t predict a major breakout either.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Projection systems don't ever really predict breakouts.
They mostly just regress.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I don't see Marcel or ZiPS doing that either
for that very reason.
That is totally based on my personal opinion and conjecture of Rasmus, nothing more. I’m not trying to predict his performance, just saying that I think the inklings are there that he might be ready break out at the MLB level.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Oh, I agree.
I was just saying that because it’s true- projection systems don’t predict breakouts because they don’t try. They project a player’s future performance based on information about his past performance and have a tough time accounting for things like acclimation, health, improving approach or skills, especially in players as young as Rasmus. I’ve got high hopes for him next season, and I think they’re pretty well-founded.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Yeah, a break-out is almost never the most likely result, so projection systems are almost never going to give out a breakout line as the mean projection.
That’s part of the reason you see projection systems increasingly try to present different types of upside/downside projections to supplement the “mean projections.” That way, I can, for example, project Adam Jones (sorry, haven’t done Cards yet) to hit 273/338/479 but also indicate that he has a 16% chance to hit 30 home runs and a 5% chance to put up a 140 OPS+.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com
So, Dan
since you’re here….
What is your system telling you about Rasmus’ potential next year?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
ZiPS projections Rasmus to improve to an OPS+ of 96 (255/323/414). Some probabilities (in %, assuming 520 PA):
Top 20% of CF starters offensively – 8%
OPS+ 100 – 37%
OPS+ 130 – 2%
.350 OBP – 14%
.300 BA – 4%
20 HR – 18%
--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com
by D.Szymborski on Dec 4, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
all the projections for colby
seem very reasonable in a cold-hard-facts sort of way. however, being human and unreasonable, i think colby really breakout-mashes this year.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
no more chili at one a.m.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i'm sure the club will provide a nanny
so if anyone here is interested in the job…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I thought he had a teacher
but he never did sell it…..
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think I agree with everything there.
It’s really hard to argue with any of that.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
His last 3 years...
2007: .340 wOBA
2008: .373 wOBA
2009: .376 wOBA
The park and league adjustments probably cancel eachother out. The fans project him to be worth 2.5 WAR, which includes a pessimistic UZR projection as well as a batting projection about 5 runs below his past 2 seasons.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 3, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
I think he's probably a 3-win guy, who fits our needs quite well, and can be had for ~$10m
that said, I think the same can be said about Cameron, and he’s a far better defender with more upside (mainly because he keeps putting up 4+ WAR seasons quite consistently), and he could spell Rasmus in CF, which I would never want Damon to do, vs LHP (giving Craig some time in LF). So, all in all, I’d say Damon is the not-quite-as-good left-handed version of Cameron.
I’d also rather see what the Royals want for DDJ before I went to Damon – better glove and (park-adjusted) very similar offensive skillset, for less money and one more year, at a younger age. If it cost some B/C-level ’spects, or even something like Mitchell Boggs, I might be inclined to go for it.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:48 AM EST up reply actions
Right, I don't really want him either
My preference is DeJesus > Cameron > Bradley (if only so we could rub it in the Cubs face when he OBP’s .400 and scores 100 runs in front of Pudogg).
I would probably take Marlon Byrd before Damon,
1. Lohse for Bradley.
2. Sign Rich Harden.
3. ??!?
4. Profit at the expense of the Cubs.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Yes please.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
in a league he’s never played in,
I’m curious why you bring that up as a negative, given that his performance would almost certainly improve going from the AL East to the NL Central.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 3, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
I still think there's an adjustment period
he’s been playing in the AL East for the most of the last decade of his career, so he’s accustomed to playing in those parks. He probably hasn’t played in over half of the parks in the National League, so I think he’s going to have to adjust to that and that it may hurt his numbers for a month or two. Couple that with the fact that he’s 36, due for a regression (his career wOBA is .351), and the fact that he’ll want a multi year deal (2 years at LEAST, he’s angling for 3), I’m just not sold that he’s even worth pursuing. Let the Yankees hook him for two or three more years — they can always DH him if he super sucks in LF on defense. The Cardinals don’t have that option.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
You could equally argue that Halladay, Shields, Lester, Papelbon et al
are “accustomed” to finding ways to get Damon out, whereas the pitchers in the NLC aren’t.
I’m not aware of any objective evidence to suggest that players generally experience a reduction in their park-adjusted hitting ability when they move to a new league. And the NLC is a weaker league than the ALE, even considering he played for the best team in the ALE (he IS probably moving to the toughest team, or at least the team with the best two pitchers, in the NLC, as well). Quite a lot of AL hitter have moved to the NL and raked at an even higher level, at least as many as who have struggled initially.
I don’t especially want Damon either, tbh, unless he’d come for 1yr and less money than Mike Cameron (which seems unlikely), but I don’t think “he might suck in the NLC for some reason that doesn’t exist in the ALE” is a very good argument. My $.02.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
As to the adjustment period
Over his career in NL parks, Damon’s line is .356/.465/.821 (computed here)
That’s better than his overall away split of .344/.437/.780 and arguably better than his home split of .367/.441/.808
Every time Damon played in an NL park, he was presumably going through an “adjustment period” in regards to both stadium and opposition, but he performed at least as well as he did in more familiar situations. Much like Felonious, I’m not really pushing for the signing of Damon, but I don’t see any reason to think that adjusting to a weaker league is going to hurt his numbers.
by brackenthebox on Dec 3, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
If you think a 36 year old can repeat that performance
in an inferior league he’s never played in
FYP.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:44 AM EST up reply actions
.795 OPS is pretty good
he’s put up consistently very good OBPs too, so OPS probably under-rates him somewhat. Also, most hitters do worse on the road. It’s a big split, and obviously I wouldn’t expect a .915 OPS in Busch, but I suspect his projection is more or less what we’d expect; something around a .350-360 wOBA.
Also, as indakind said, Damon’s a very good fastball hitter, and where better to see a shit-ton of fastballs than hitting one spot in front of Albert Freaking Pujols?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:51 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno....
where better to see a shit-ton of fastballs than hitting one spot in front of Albert Freaking Pujols?
Perhaps hitting second in a Yankee lineup with Derek Jeter in front of you and A-Rod, Teixeira, Matsui, and Posada hitting behind you? I don’t see him being a better offensive player hitting in our lineup at Busch than he was hitting in the Yankees lineup at Yankee Stadium.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Me neither.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
FWIW I'm not arguing for Damon
I think he’s a long way from being the best option in LF. I just think people are slightly down on him than is fair. He ain’t the best option, he ain’t the worst. I’d rather have him than Bay, Craig/Jay as full-time options or, probably, Holliday, in all honesty (although I can’t quite make my mind up about Holliday, I suppose it’s somewhat dependent on price), but I’d much rather have David DeJesus, Hinske/Branyan as LF/3B platoon pieces + more pitching, or Mike Cameron.
Damon kinda seems like an option who’ll provide roughly the value he’ll receive in his contract; he’ll be paid to be worth maybe 4-5 wins over two years and he’ll probably produce about that. Bay will be over-priced, Holliday likely will be too unless he ages surprisingly well, whereas my favoured options will probably be undervalued by the market.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Damon. Seriously.
The guy would have to play the outfield, you know.
ability to throw hard really isn't that important for a LFer.
I wouldn’t want him anywhere near CF, however. Well, maybe about 60 feet away to the left…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:45 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think a 1yr drop in his UZR
Is indicative of his defense falling off a cliff. Sure he throws like a 5yr old but he still has good wheels so I am unconvinced that is range has diminished as much as UZR says. Adding Lopez and Damon would really boost this teams ability to get on base without a hit. Furthermore, Craig would make a nice platoon for Damon with Damon sliding to center against tough lefties. Damon might also be able to help Confuscious Rasputin with his swing against lefties.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
You lost me at "Damon sliding to center"
No way I can go for that. Just no way.
was damon playing center
when manny famously dove to cut that throw?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
oh, i understand that
was referencing an arm so weak that even a disinterested manny understood that damon needed an intermediary to get the ball to the actual cutoff man.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Michael Bourn minus speed.
Frightening.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
good wheels x bad arm = undiminished range?
I’m picturing him just running the ball into the infield. If anyone could make that a plus, it would be Damon.
I don't think he's got great wheels anymore
which is a big part of the reason I think that his defense took a hit in 2009. His RngR number in UZR went from a +7 in ‘08 to a -9 in ’09. That’s a huge difference, and it wasn’t like he was battling injuries the entire time.
He also went from 37 steal attempts in ‘08 (30 in ’07 and 35 in ’06) to only 12 last year. Sure, the Yankees were better on offense as a whole last year, but not really behind where Damon was hitting in the lineup in either year, so I think he’s just got old legs. In that case, his defense may not recover all that much.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Well we all have our favorites
Damon and Floppy are mine. I agree that Damon is declining but I think he still could help our club. I don’t think his wheels are “great”…I think they are still good. I cannot agree with you on the league thing. He would be going from the toughest division in baseball to one of the easiest. Yes he would have to learn new pitchers but they would have to learn him as well. With his advanced batting eye I don’t think it would be a problem.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I think you've got a good point on Lopez too, actually
he really looks a decent fit for our org. I’m not sure he’d be that high on my list but I could definitely live with him at 3B, where he’d have a plus glove and probably an average-ish bat. My only concern is that’s exactly what we project from Freese (admittedly best-case scenario), and Lugo probably does the same job vs LHP at 2B (slightly poor glove, slight plus bat) so I wonder if he’s not a tiny bit redundant.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:54 AM EST up reply actions
If you look at his other speed factors
He is still in the top 50 fastest players in baseball
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 2, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
His shift from leadoff to the no. 2 slot could explain the difference in steal attempts.
He and Jeter switched in the order early in the season and I’d imagine that the manager is more likely to give Damon a steal sign with Jeter up than Teixeira or A-Rod. In fact, Jeter went from 16 SB attempts in ’08 to 35 in ’09, which suggests it has more to do with spot in the batting order than physical decline.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 2, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
UZR has some measurement error
Even if it didn’t, you can never take 1 year samples of even the most reliable stat at face value, given the sample error of a players true ability.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 3, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not taking them at face value
I’m simply saying that his decreased range in LF, which has always been spectacular, wasn’t this past year and that may indicate that he can’t run well anymore.
Why are we even discussing giving Johnny Damon the multi year contract that he’ll require when we could sign Mike Cameron to a one year deal for about the same cost?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Huh?
If anything, I suspect that Cameron is more likely to get > 1 year than Damon.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 3, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
doubt it
unless the lack of CF on the market sparks a bidding war. Cameron just came off a 1-yr deal, is 37, and was dumped by Milwaukee because (presumably) they didn’t think he was worth the 1/10m they gave him last time. I don’t see too many big market, badly managed teams with gaping holes in CF. There’s a few teams he makes good sense for, but most of them can probably live without him.
Personally, I’m not sure Damon gets more than 1 year, either, but he has been ridiculously durable in his career so far, and is maybe a bigger “name” than Cameron, so I’d maybe give him the edge.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Except that. . .
Cameron is clearly a better player than Damon by almost any metric. Granted, there are some idiot GMs out there, but I’d wager that there are more smart ones. Yeah, all it takes is one idiot, I realize that, but most of the idiots are GMing poor teams who won’t be able to afford to pay Damon.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 3, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Cameron's been good for years and he still consistently gets under-valued contracts
you might be right that GMs are getting smarter, but a reasonable Cameron contract hasn’t happened yet. I think he’s still under-valued.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
By almost any metric?
He’s a better defensive player — that’s about it. Damon has been much better offensively (wOBA, SLG, OBP, K%) than Cameron has been over the past couple of years — the main difference last year was their defense. I’m not totally sold that Damon’s UZR from 2009 was a fluke, I think he has some regression there due to age and reduced range, but it’s probably a good bet that he wasn’t THAT bad last year due to the noise in UZR in one season samples. He’s probably a league average left fielder and Cameron is probably a two win left fielder, but Damon is projected to be a win and half to two wins better with the bat by Bill James and CHONE, so they’re essentially equal value players. Cameron is just a year older, has been near a 30% K rate the last couple of seasons, and can still play CF fairly well. I don’t think the CF matters in the case of the Cardinals since we already have a very good CF, so it comes down to who the better LF option is.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Cameron is a better player, period.
I’ll grant you that Damon is a better hitter, even though I share your doubts about Damon’s numbers away from Yankee Stadium.
But from a WAR perspective (and yes, I have my doubts about fielding metrics and how they are converted into WAR), Cameron has been a better player for the past two years: 4.3 > 3.0 and 4.0 > 3.6.
One is an average LF (at best), the other is a plus-plus CF.
Note that I’m not arguing who is a better fit for the Cardinals. In fact, I am probably coming around to think that Damon is a better fit – - I think the Cards need OBP in front of Pujols more than they need almost anything else. But Cameron is the “more valuable” player.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 3, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
I think they need a right handed bat that hits lefties well
and Cameron fits that bill. I also think they need a guy who will sign a one year contract, and Cameron fits that bill better than Damon does as well.
As left fielders go though, I think they are pretty comparable — I just think we’ll pay Cameron less money over less years which is preferable for players over the age of 35.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
was dumped by Milwaukee because (presumably) they didn’t think he was worth the 1/10m they gave him last time
This is the same Brewer FO that is seriously looking at Todd Wellemeyer to fill their rotation, right?
;)
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 3, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
but nobody else wanted to pay him that LAST year either, so he ended up in Milwaukee. Had anyone wanted Cameron at 2Y$20M or 3Y$30M, I’m sure he would have signed elsewhere.
If anything, the Brewers overvalued him in terms of the market, even though he’s undervalued on the open market as a player.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
No way that happens.
Cameron only got a one year deal last year and he’s 37 years old. He doesn’t hit like Manny Ramirez, so there’s no way he’s getting any more than one year. I think Cameron knows that he won’t get more than 1Y someplace and will look for the best option that fits him, which unfortunately is probably not St. Louis.
Damon is much more likely to get 2 years because the Yankees will try to keep their team together and they really don’t have anyone to replace him with internally at the moment, but it doesn’t seem like they want Holliday or Bay on a long term deal with Austin Jackson waiting in the wings — who they seem to be very high on. He’s also looking for a 3 year deal and had a better offensive season than Cameron did last year (while being fairly offensive on defense) so he’s probably more likely to get a multi year deal.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Someone else might sign Cameron
we’ve maybe got to be realistic and say Holliday’s probably NY-bound, Bay likely stays in Boston, and someone like the Giants might pick up Cameron and put him in CF, which Mo might not want to do for various reasons I don’t especially agree with. Damon’s just another option. I agree that Cameron’s a better one, and I think VEP probably does, too.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
...
I’m simply saying that his decreased range in LF, which has always been spectacular, wasn’t this past year and that may indicate that he can’t run well anymore.
It’s equally like that this years decreased range was just a bad year, and he will bounce back. A weighted UZR projection with aging would have him about an average defender, maybe a little below. With his hitting, that’s still a good player. I don’t really want Damon, but I don’t think he’d be a bad option at all.
I don't think he's as bad as UZR had him in '09
but I don’t think he’s a 10 run LF anymore either. I would guess he’s right around league average defensively, so his bat is going to have to be worth around 4 wins to make him as valuable as Cameron. He’d essentially need to nearly repeat last year and I don’t think he can do that if he’s not playing home games at Yankee Stadium — his power numbers outside there aren’t very good.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
wait, which Lopez?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I wondered the same thing but got SBN'd
I was guessing Felipe, maybe?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Floppy
He of the .383 OBP last year.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I could handle some Floppy
He’s a switch-hitter, right? He gives a platoon option with Skippy and Freese on alternate days and allows Skip to play LF against righties if need be. I probably should look at his splits before I open my mouth on this. I know he’s sub-par defensively, but he’s a nice bat and he’s versitile.
so wait
he’s a younger, cheaper, less injured, switch-hitting mark derosa?
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
Minus the intangible man-stew components.
But I really like Felipe. I had him on both of my fantasy teams this year – he’s valuable for his versatility and his ability to hit for average. He was also my favorite Diamondback.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
I live in Phoenix.
What else is on TV on weeknights in the summer? Plus I constantly get offered free tickets at work.
As an aside, Sutton and Grace are the worst TV announcers in the history of baseball.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Gotcha
And yes, browsing the announcers on MLB.tv for games when ______ ________ was pitching, the D-Backs guys together are simply awful. They’d go multiple AB’s without saying anything about the game. Not just pitches, like groundouts happen without mention. Their obsession with the crowd is weird.
Hate to say it, but the Yankees guys are some of the best. They stay on the game, actually analyze things they are capable of analyzing, and aren’t there to be goofy.
Not afraid to nitpick
DAN HAREN
is that the correct answer to the fill in the blank!?
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 2, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
iheartboogi'mhappyforyouandi'mgonnaletyoufinish
but i would say the flubs are by far the worst announcers of all time.
sutton’s a big time douche though. and i can actually take gracy in small increments.
and that’s awesome you get free tickets. i need to find a gig like that
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maybe.
but what joker said about the crowd obsession is true. its really strange. and they don’t talk about the game AT ALL.
the free tickets are cool, but its only b/c all the partners who have season tickets don’t want to use them because the D’Backs are HORRIBLE.
good news: the Cardinals are coming to Phx twice this year. WOOT.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
that is werid, i noticed the Rangers broadcast team
does a lot of crowd stuff too. they have a guy in the stands at least 5 times a game talking to the crown. i wonder why they do that?
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Maybe they are trying to integrate "reality television"
with baseball games or something. Only they don’t realize that “reality television” isn’t all that interesting when it isn’t crazy people vying for a prize of some sort.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
considerably less power than DeRo
but likely better OBP.
Also, his “sub-par defense” thing is a bit exaggerated – he sucks bigtime at SS but UZR actually doesn’t mind him too much at 2B and he’s likely better than DeRosa at 3B, possibly above-average in fact.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:56 AM EST up reply actions
I think our Arbitration cases were obvious
Holliday is the top free agent in baseball, DeRosa has one of the best reputations in baseball (even if not totally true), Pineiro is one of the few free agent pitchers that had a good year AND is healthy.
I am more confused my other teams arb cases. Yankees – Damon, Dodgers – Wolf, and Cubs – Harden. Seems like a lot of teams are going to be crunched for money this off season.
We Have a 2-Bagger...
…we need to replace Piniero in the rotation, and we NEED a lefty (bring back John Tudor!). Hudson would be ok if we can shift Skip back to LF, but I think Wolfie fills a bigger need.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
i think we should trade Skippy for pitching
he doesn’t belong in the OF anymore
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skippy for pitching?
don’t we have enough middling relievers?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
nope
not without lugo, and i’m not sure glaring is even legal in canada.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
too bad we let PK go, including him certanly would have sealed the deal
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The Red Sox...
traded two minor league non-prospects for one month of Billy Wagner. They picked up about $1.5 million in salary, and now they have the #20 pick plus a supplemental. That’s good stuff…
MB for LF in 2010!
Well-played by Theo.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 2, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
More like Minaya is oblivious to good GM skills
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
Making a strong play for worst GM in the majors
Sabean’s going to have to clear his mantelpiece for the first time in a few years…
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:58 AM EST up reply actions
Ahahahaha
Heated competition, but there’s still plenty of offseason to figure out who fails the most.
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
theo is a genius
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
The Braves utterly screwed the pooch on that one
I could understand it more if they had a protected pick.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 5:59 AM EST up reply actions
Gonzalez and Soriano
Aren’t they both Type A’s, and offered Arb? Perhaps the Bravos felt like they weren’t going to want to pony up the money for 3 first rounders anyway, so would rather take 2 + Wagner.
I suppose that's reasonable
still, they’ve given up (I think) the 18th/19th pick and probably won’t see one as high as that from either of their Type A guys. I wouldn’t have thought it was so bad if they gave up the 30th or if they had a protected (top 15) pick.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:10 AM EST up reply actions
Ho hum.
That’s sort of the way I felt about the arby offers the Cardinals issued. I suppose that since we’ve been discussing it for a while and the decisions seemed rather obvious, that the actual process was anti-climactic.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Thank goodness that man is not the Cards' GM.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 2, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
colletti is dodgers, right?
he’ll probably sign wolf to a longer deal at less AAV than arb. he could resign hudson for less than arb amount, i’d bet, but might prefer a polanco. don’t know what else he pulled – am i missing something?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
no, the Dodger's aren't doing anything because the owers are getting a divorce
it’s totally handcuffed the entire team until they figure it out. it’s a big mess
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it's really funny though
because they just got rid of Jones,Schmidt,Hudson,Wolf which should be alot off the books ~40-50 million
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
If you're that rich
Wouldn’t it make sense to just not get legally married? All that does is complicate things to the Nth degree if things go wrong and gives incentive to both sides to file for divorce first instead of trying to work things out.
Not afraid to nitpick
haven't they been married for a while now?
and why wouldn’t they sign a pre-nup?
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Not like the dude was just doing it all
Wife was President of the Dodgers
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 2, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah but if he was unquestionably the sole owner that would have been irrelevant
He fired her and that would have been that.
(To defend against the PC police: this isn’t like a sexist thing, Britney Spears is an idiot (I should stop this sentence right here) for getting married just the same. Indexed 20k a month for KFed for life. Yeah, bad business decision.)
Not afraid to nitpick
They were married
before they became billionaires in the parking lot business. Yes, you can make billions of dollars managing parking lots. I will now my 4 year degree on fire.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
another Coral fan exists?
Nice to see that. I went to see them as the headline act at the Double Door in Chicago, and the opening act was some southern-fried rock band that seemed to playing their first show, waving at their family between songs. That band was the Kings of Leon, who skyrocketed to success in the Coral’s home country of the UK no less.
No justice. Coral should have been bigger.
"But as the leadoff guy that inning, my job is to get on base and let guys drive me in." - Albert Pujols 8/20/09, base-clogger.
I'm not big on the Coral tbh.
A touch twee and a bit too simplistic.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 6:00 AM EST up reply actions
general bitching on my part, but damn this irritates me
SHIT LOOKS SO STUPID
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It does look stupid.
The reason they do it is to prove that the hat isn’t counterfeit.
Now with extra feisty!
and that it's new
because people with money can afford new things
*vintage clothing store exception. except the douche vs. hipster is a whole other can-o-worms
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
is counterfeited hats an epidemic?
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
i just dont think i would care if someone thought my hat was fake
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Gotta agree with you there.
A couple of weeks ago I saw a guy wearing a Cards hat, which made me really happy (given the Cub proclivities of the local population) until I saw that he left the sticker on the bill.
/sigh
AND ALL THESE DAMN KIDS BETTER GET OFF MY LAWN!
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 2, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
yes
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
it's missing tony
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
it's a pretty bad photoshop
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
liar
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
no I cannot tell a lie
I am the batman
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
no, I'm batman
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
this is a pretty bad photoshop by me but no I am the batman
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
I'm sorry but the batman doesn't lose
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
so you admit it, I'm the batman
gotcha
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
No I think he got you there.
I declare CodyG the Batman.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
are you f'ing kidding me?
who died & made you the batman commissioner? i’m clearly the winner. it’s not even close
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It was a little footnote at the bottom.
It’s understandable if you missed it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Is Joel McHale in that shot?
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
yeah, it's from community's halloween episode
abed was awesome in it
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nice. i finally started watching
but i’ve only seen the last three episodes
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I love Joel McHale.
I’m still trying to figure out what he was doing on an FSNMW Cards pregame show two years ago, how I missed it, and why I can’t find it anywhere.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I made that, and all I did was move Al's head on to picture.
Its the underlying message of Al’s reverse ageism that is in focus.
Bird is the word.
Oh my gosh.
I just noticed Tony in the background. What a creeper.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I think this would make an excellent meme.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
randomly putting him into pictures would be a funny meme.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
yes
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
how about just a party crasher?
he already comes off creepy enough at times.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Are those really his dogs?
That’s the creepiest part.
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 3, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
+1
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 2, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
microsoft paint FTW!
" If I had a gun on a boat I would shoot you right here, right now"
by pinkelposse on Dec 2, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love recs so here
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
by CodyG on Dec 2, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
well...
you are a yankee fan, right?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
so? i'm a Cardinal fan above all else
after what those asscaptains did the Cards in 04 none of us should ever root for them
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fixed version rocks!
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
Anybody else remember when it was cool to leave the price tag on the hat?
It was so annoying. That little piece of cardboard, still attached by the little loop of plastic, just flopping around every time the person’s head moved.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
NOW IT'S SMALL ENOUGH
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Boxing OT: Hanging that left hand finally caught up with Roy Jones Jr.
Amazing he lasted until 40 before that actually hurt him. Boxing never gets the RJJ vs. Hopkins rematch even if it was going to happen 10 years too late…..thankfully it seems the promoters are finally getting away from that shit.
Not afraid to nitpick
Yup
About the time he got old enough that he couldn’t stick a quick right when someone opened up to hit him on his left is when it started to hurt him.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Indeed
It’s just amazing he’s been able to break Boxing 101—-shit, less than 101, it’s the first thing anyone knows! Chin down hands up—-at that level for so long. It’s like playing without a shortstop.
Not afraid to nitpick
I know
I always felt awkward watching him fight. Even more awkward than watching tapes of Ali fight when he was younger with his hands down at his sides.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Wagner (not the composer)
Billy to the Bravos. I know it would suck to give up a first-rounder to sign an aging reliever, but the dollars in that deal son’t sound bad to me. I was all for giving him 8-10M per for a year or two if he wasn’t offered arby. So, after getting offered arby, a potential 2yr deal for 13M sounds like a fair trade-off. I think he’s going to be lights out. I am rarely a proponent of big money for a “saves” guy (I was dead-set against Fuentes last year) but that kind of power arm in high-leverage situations would go along way in the STL bullpen.
Didn't Bill DeWitt ...
make much of his fortune through ownership of a large number of arby’s restaurants? hmmmmm…
i thought it was radio & oil?
i’m about to run to Arby’s & get some curly fries & a few beef n cheddar’s. i haven’t eaten all day & i’m getting crabby
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i would, but their chikin smammich's are almost $10bucks with curly fries
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i think of you
when that commercial plays of the cows parachuting into the stadium.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Cubs posed to sign Ankiel
as soon as they can get rid of Milton Bradley.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Good fit for Rick
Will never have to worry about the pressure of a big playoff game derailing his career again.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 2, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
disagree
cubs can get to the playoffs, they just freakout and can’t perform when they start
I think you got the “good fit” part right
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
Ba-ZING.
rec’d.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 6:04 AM EST up reply actions
if rick goes to wrigley
and has a 2008 type season, i will cry
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
If so, Ankiel's season has
this written all over it:
400 AB, .240/.295/.400 line, with 20 hr and 110 K (30 in his 10 games again the Cardinals, who won’t pitch him anything in the strike zone.)
they do realize there's brick under that ivy, right?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i wouldn't wish that on poor Dick
rotobbq or whatever the f that thing is on the main page say the pirates want him. i think he should go there & i think he’s smart enough to know he has no biz playing anywhere where they expect him to help them win.
at least for his sake i hope he is
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I agree
dickkkkk should play where there’s no pressure on him.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
i thought chicago sox
would be an ideal situation/park for him, and it’s sorta much further from stl than pitt or cubs
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
as stupid as this sounds I think the yankees would fit him well
with that LF wall he could easily get forty homers if he gets his swing back. I mean look home much power Damon “added” this season.
I couldn’t even guess the amount Dunn would hit in that park.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
and after hitting 40 in july he will just go up there and take his walk/strike outs
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Dunn might like NYC better than Washington or Cinci
as it’s closer to being out of America. He’s working his way ever Eastwards until he hits chosen goal of DHing for the Paris Towers.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 6:06 AM EST up reply actions
i would think Cuba has the advantage because they have better weather
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but the people love america
dunn would fit better in france.
anyone hear about this cuban umpire defecting? didn’t read the article, but the notion is kinda funny.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
who knows
you want to risk getting kidnapped to go there and find out?
(but i bet dunn knows)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He could dress like a bum,
and prolly get left alone. They only kidnap rich looking people.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 2, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
you just know
someone here would send down word he was really rich as howard hughes (just as a gag gone wrong, of course) and we’d have to take up a collection to get gdm home. although, the way he talks about ohio…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i'll take ohio over hugo chavez every day of the week
but i thought they were talking about Dunn?
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yes, I read that.
odd because he probably won’t be able to umpire here, according to the article.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
wooooooooooowww
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
this thread has me scared
rubbing my eyes in disbelief that the names Matt Damon and Felipe Lopez are being seriously discussed. I admit it’s personal and not analytic. Floppy is a bad seed who has skills and minimal baseball intelligence ( I watched him in Cincy a few years and the leopard does not change his spots). And I simply have visceral ugh for neanderthal head, whose trunk has worn the uni’s of the enemy (Sawx and pinstripes).
As for the arby’s, I withdrew my heart from Glaus some time ago, so I am ok there. Mainly because, bopper that he can be, he spends too much time grumbling about borderline pitches and it affects his crunch-it potential.
My only quibble is Pinata; that is, instead of offering arby, which I agree he will probably reject, I wish we had signed him to a new deal. I frankly feel that a marginal factor in the arguments against him is that he is something of a diffident pretty boy, which is a cousin to blaming puppy-killer for having a 14 year old boy’s face
Floppy played well for the Cardinals down the stretch in '08
and I don’t remember hearing anything about him being a bad seed at that time, or this year when he played for Arizona. Maybe leopards don’t change spots, but they can get luggaged into being a decent teammate.
As for Matt Damon, is it really fair to call him a neanderthal? I realize that Ocean’s Twelve sucked, but still….
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Matt Damon is my man-crush
I’d hit it.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
He reportedly had some attitude problems
Started shit with opposing teams’ players, only played hard when he felt like it, etc.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Floppy played some ugly defense down that 08 stretch run
I remember them repeatedly cutting to Tony’s looks of disgusts in the dugout after Floppy booted ANOTHER grounder…
TLR liked him though, which was weird
i don’t want him because i think he’s lazy & a bad dude. i know all players aren’t saints, but he’s a pretty scummy character
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why did i think he was church buddies with apu?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
unless that church was penthouse on the east side, i don't think he's ever been to one
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matt damon?
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
this is a really unflattering picture
especially considering he’s actually really good-looking.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
DISAGREE
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 2, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree with your disagree
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
DISAGREE
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 2, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Have you seen the Bourne movies?
He puts Skippy to shame.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
since his appearance on Entourage this past summer
i hate him even more than i did before
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come on, really?
Have you seen the Sarah Silverman video “I’m Fucking Matt Damon”? How do you not like him after that? He seems awesome. Where are the girls around here to agree with me?
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
gdm, spants has spoken.
I’d leave it alone dude.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 2, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
i ain't afraid of mrs fancy spants
pleasedon’tstabmepleasedon’tstabmepleasedon’tstabmepleasedon’tstabmepleasedon’tstabmepleasedon’tstabme
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No Religion!
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 3, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
I really wish I could have been there
When Matt Stone and Trey Parker were so high that they decided that they were going to throw out all of Matt Damon’s lines and replace them with “Matt Damon” because the doll came out looking messed up. That had to be one of the funniest conversations to watch ever.
Not afraid to nitpick
matt damon playing for the cardinals!?
might take too much time from his blistering acting career. though it would be pretty sweet. i wonder what CHONE would project him as.
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 2, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
OT: BOOOG ALERT!!
MLB Network is repeating Hot Stove right now; at the end, there is a segment on Clay Zavada and the American Mustache Institute in which they discuss Brendan Ryan at some length, show pictures, video, etc. There is also a shot of Piniero and talk of the “mustache movement” of last year.
If you turn it on right now you can catch it at about 10-15 minutes before the end of the hour (7 pm Central).
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Damnit.
I wish I was at home to watch that. My job ruins my life on a daily basis.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
I bet they will replay Hot Stove at least 4 more times tonight
right after whatever they’re playing at 7, so I bet you could catch it at some point.
Actually, I just checked—it’s on again at 9 PM and 12 AM, then they play it on repeat from 3 AM until 11AM. It’s possible that the show will have changed slightly for the 9 and 12 edition, but you might get lucky.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
well transcribe, damn it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
How bout I link to it instead
Watching it again, there is much less talk about Boog than I recall, but he is featured in video clips and a graphic, and they quote him. That’s probably more than WWL has said about him all season. :(
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
there's a game thread where I howled that
WWL would snub him out of a clear web gem.
and they did. for a Cub.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I remember that.
I watched MLB Network’s Season’s Best Plays of the NL (or whatever they called it) and the only Boog highlight was the face plant. They even broke it down by position and during the shortstop section Tyler Fucking Greene somehow deserved a highlight, but Boog only got one. I think nobody knows about the shattered bat-dodging or the early-season (Atlanta?) sliding catch except St Louis fans.
They could have done an entire segment on Boog highlights, dammit. I wish people would wake up and pay attention to him. At least they knew about the mustache, if nothing else. /sigh
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
that deserves a fanshot
awesome. even if they didn’t mention our guys that much.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
done. it's up now
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Glaus
What exactly were the rules for what we could offer Glaus under arb? I seem to remember a lot of debate about that. If we had to offer 80% of his prior salary then I think this was the right decision. I think if I could have offered $7 or under I would have offered arb.
Lots of teams will take a flyer on Glaus so trading him after signing him won’t be a problem. If he declined arb then we get the draft pick when he signs. What’s a supp pick worth $3-5 million? I would have taken a risk that we sign him for seven, he accepts arb and we have to trade him and eat some of the salary. Most people think he would have taken arb. I think if he knew he was going to sit on bench, hew oudl have declined. He wants to play so he can sign another deal.
As many teams as need a bat, he would have declined arb. Assuming he is back from injury now, I think he gets a good deal.
Just win
+1
won’t repeat previous posts, but santa was a very low risk arb offer. we could have offered any salary we wanted, and if they chose his, then we just cut him and pay a small fraction. my guess, though, is he would have gotten a deal in the AL and we would have got the pick. after akl, what would an arbiter give a guy who spent almost 50% of the last 2 years on the DL?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
yeah but he's switching from 3rd to 1st though
we don’t need a 1st baseman
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we don't
thanks for pointing that out GDM that really makes sense now.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Players that win at arbitration...
can’t be cut for financial reasons. This happened a couple years ago with Todd Walker, who won an arbitration hearing against the Padres. They cut him at the end of camp, and the union filed a grievance. I can’t remember if he got his $4 million or not.
In the case of Glaus, if he was at all functional during ST and we had no one but Freese backing him up, I don’t think we could make the case to release him purely for baseball reasons.
MB for LF in 2010!
i also don't think we could make the case
that we signed him as a 3B and all he can play is 1B.
besides, this is a bad practice in general. remember varitek demanding a guaranteed contract rather than arb with his reasoning being that he could be cut in spring training and the red sox laughing it off and saying they’d never pull something like that? no way the union would let that stand as an accepted practice rather than as an exception, because then every team could cut every player that they had hoped wouldn’t accept arb or who won the arb case or both.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He wouldn't need to be cut
He is going to get a lot of interest either at 3B if healthy or 1B/DH. Can’t envision a healthy Glaus needing to be cut. He may have looked bad on his return last year, but he is essentially healthy already with the whole winter to get his stroke back.
Just win
varitek also has it in his deal he's the only one on the team who wears the C on his chest
that’s pretty f’in weak. yet another reason to hate that team
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i think there's a 50% chance
he’d “need to be cut”, and greater than 50% he never sniffs third again. and it’s tough to find a DH/1B job in the AL as a free agent, so i don’t know how easy it would be to trade him over to there.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
well he did play third for us last year, sort of.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
look at this play he made last year
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
to my recollection
he was ok at 3rd in a few stints
maybe wouldn’t hold up for 162, but would not have to
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
he is a lefty killer and we do need a few of those.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
He wouldn’t need to be cut
He is going to get a lot of interest either at 3B if healthy or 1B/DH. Can’t envision a healthy Glaus needing to be cut.
What makes you think he’ll be healthy? His stroke looked like shit at the end of last year and with his shoulder problem he seemed to lose some bat speed. There’s conjecture as to whether he can make a full season’s worth of throws from 3B to 1B as well.
If he’s healthy enough to play, but hits like crap in ST, who’s going to be interested in trading for him unless we basically pay all his salary?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 6:14 AM EST up reply actions
aye.
he looked more than decent at third, but crapped out at the plate.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the Cardinals have no need of a right-handed 1B/PH making $5 million+ a year.
had he accepted, he would have made no less than 8 or 9 mil. whatever 80% of his ’09 salary is. or is it 85%?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Those rules technically don't apply to non pre-FA guys
But arbitration hearings traditionally don’t end well if you’re trying to lower a guy’s salary from what I understand.
Not afraid to nitpick
more like predictable
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
I'll have everyone know I cried.
So I will not be able to handle any gloating or smack talk however friendly gracefully.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You guys ran a hell of a press for twenty five minutes.
makes me honestly nervous for the Braggin’ Rights game.
We didn't do it enough.
We should have done it every time. Every time we really did it like we usually do and are supposed to do it clearly flustered y’all.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
we were just handing the ball over every time we were double teamed in the first half
like “oh, you want this, here you go, guys!”
Along with an inability to shoot free throws
Illinois basketball has always been foiled by a good press… At least we’re a consistent program
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
easiest (and most confusing?) twss evar
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
i picture y'all
being her parents
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Didn't get a chance to see it
But if Illinois can’t handle a press…….yeah that’s all we do.
Problem is #1 Kim English and #2 don’t really have the size in the front court right now to pull it off defensively or offensively from the set. Last year we could break even when the game went slow but then win the turnover margin by 15 and kill on fastbreaks.
Safford/Bowers/Ramsey are good #3/4s for the system but just don’t have the strength to deal with a true center which means rebounding is a joke (currently getting outrebound 34-16…..ouch). Losing Lyons’ ability to one on one defend a center and create from the inside hurts way worse than I thought it would. Teams can just go postup or inside-out all day and there’s no real post player on offense. Steve Moore needs to develop in a hurry. The entire offense is slash and kick (or Kim English bombing a terrible shot.) Only chance is to keep it super high paced and run a center tired.
Oh and I think I forgot to mention that Kim English is terrible. I knew as soon as he had those 2 good shooting games that he was going to start bombing idiotic shots thinking he was as good as Kobe.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'm estatic...
Sadly I was unable to watch the game… only able to listen to the first half. About crapped myself when I found Illinois came back. However, the Moonman is apparently working in the offseason… one of the announcers was telling us how impressive the Clemson press was… and that it was like they had 10 hands out there… Immediately sounded like a Moonman line to me.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
10 hands?
hey, that’s cheating!
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He then realized what he said
and moved on to say it was more like 12 hands or maybe 20… because they already had 10… it really started growing exponentially.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
i meant it was sad a pretty girl cried, pretty girls should never cry
i also dislike the illini so i’m pretty disappointed clemson just gave up. that was pretty f’in weak
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and the other girls should cry
because they aren’t pretty?
is that a line from an old film, or a saying or something?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Eh I couldn't figure out a real good way
to get the 10 hands comment in. That seemed like the best. Look at the timestamp… it’s a time of the day where good decisions aren’t made.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Ok I want to play GM for a bit
Sign Polanco to play second/third
SIgn Holliday yo a five year deal with two vesting options
Sign two solid relievers like Dotel and Lyon
Resign Smoltz and look into trading for someone like Edwin Jackson or Kevin Correia
It’s alot of money but it will help this team a lot in my opinion
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Holliday doesn't need to take vesting options, unfortunately
He’ll be able to find plenty of guaranteed years.
And why do we need Polanco? We have an effective 2B platoon that we’re paying next to nothing for, and Polanco’s bat doesn’t play well at third base.
Polanco is a great defender and I would be ok with him replacing skippy
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
And how much are you willing to pay for that marginal upgrade
Given our current financial situation and all the other things you listed there that you’d like to do?
marginal?
that’s what 12 more runs over skippy? the man’s contact rate is 96%, that is insane. Plus he would be an easy replacement over freese if he falters.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
too much gold ruins the bacon
what’ll it be, bacon or gold
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
gold so I can sell it for a lot more bacon
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
by CodyG on Dec 2, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and why isn't that your sig?
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
link?
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
must i do everything for you damn kids?
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"why in my day I had to walk in snow ten miles to school, you kids have it easy"- gdm426
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
"no prissy boots we wore sandals"
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
hahahahaha
didn’t know codyg was in my age group until now.
me, cgirly, codyg, and zoomzoom FTW!
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
There are a lot of us.
I don’t know if joker counts since I think he is a little bit older.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Also slu too I think.
And I don’t think Dan is that much older.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
our age group = 21 >
and my one obligatory comment of the night for you:
what. the fuck. clemson basketball? freakin’ ruined my night…
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry, I'm an Illini fan
its too bad the Illini had to do that against the Clemson
Bird is the word.
fuck the illni
that is all.
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
I am too.
When they aren’t playing Clemson. I wanted a blowout either way. Easier to accept.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
yeeeeeeaaaah
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
I warned you this would not be taken gracefully.
Please don’t.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
How many of you are there left now?
About 7.4?
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 3, 2009 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
More than you'd think
Illinois is really a whatever is good school more than a football or basketball school.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Ruined your night?
What do you think it did to mine? Then I found out one of my friends got thrown out of her house and isn’t allowed to go there for Christmas. My night sucks.
Also our age group is <21. That’s what you were looking for I think. The crocodile goes in front of the number.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
i hate illinois with a passion
as for the < thing, don’t care. the point is the same.
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
go to bed!
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
Why?
You did it wrong that’s why it took forever not because I’m tired.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
it's irrelevant
nevermind.
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
i disowned her
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
creeper
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
touche
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
correction
touche Touché
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
tool
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
Us young people need to stick together
None of this fighting amongst ourselves and calling each other tools.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
there was no calling each other tools
it was all one sided
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
Don't make me give you a timeout.
I’m practicing.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
okay i'll shut up and go to bed
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
as for the < thing, don’t care. the point is the same
Ummm, is it not, in fact, the exact opposite?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 6:17 AM EST up reply actions
lots and lots of reasons.
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Oh to be young.
The better Illinois is the more it helps Mizzous RPI at the end of the year. I hope for Mizzou to go 36-1 every year.
Yes, so true.
The point is exactly the same. Greater and less than are equivalent statements.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 3, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
vandy's a good team
sure could beat the shit out of illinois.
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
geezer.
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
WTF
you’ve spent about $50m there dude.
Guess again.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 3, 2009 6:16 AM EST up reply actions
Slow down there cowboy!
Sign Polanco to play second/third
I would be ok with this as long as it’s a short term deal. I still think that someone like Felipe Lopez would be a better sign though, because he delivers a similar offensive package to Polanco, with a little more power and he hits from both sides, making him an ideal platoon candidate with Freese at 3B.
SIgn Holliday yo a five year deal with two vesting options
There’s no way that happens. He can get 6 years guaranteed from virtually anyone in the hunt, why would he take vesting options if he doesn’t have to?
Sign two solid relievers like Dotel and Lyon
Dotel, ok. Brandon Lyon? No way in hell. Look at his peripherals from last season. He struck out only 6.5 guys per 9 while walking 3.5 batters per 9. Not good. His BABIP against was .229, which is one of the lowest in baseball, and his strand rate is nearly 80%. I don’t think either of those are sustainable. He put up a worse FIP last year than Kyle McClellan and he’s bound to get worse this year with his luck normalizing, so why would we pay him when we already have KMac and Hawk who will probably be better?
Resign Smoltz and look into trading for someone like Edwin Jackson or Kevin Correia
If we resign Smoltz, we really don’t need another starter, since we should be able to fill the #5 slot with one of our farm hands, either Garcia, Boggs, Hawksworth, or Ottavino. Both Jaime Garcia and Mitch Boggs are better than Kevin Correia, imo, and there’s no way we have the prospects to get Edwin Jackson, who’s going to be overpriced based on his 2009 season when he was a great pitcher for half a season and a below average pitcher for the other half. He had a slightly above average FIP last season, but he’ll likely get a decent arbitration award and the Tigers will move a lot of other players before moving him.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Don't diss Kevin Correia, dude
He has had good stuff for years and may have finally figured out how to use it.
Plus, his peripherals were much improved last year. He struck out an additional batter per nine and walked one less batter per nine than before.
If anything he was a bit BABIP unlucky given his line-drive rate. He would be the Cards 3/4 starter next year, depending upon how/if Kyle Lohse rebounds.
Granted, the Pads probably won’t trade him for nothing; he’s pretty cheap.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 3, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
He's a league average pitcher away from Petco
Splits in 2009 He was also a bit lucky in his HR/FB — probably due to pitching at Petco. If that normalizes to around league average, he’s a #4 starter.
He’s also got 5 years of service time, so he’ll be a FA after next season and will be due a good raise in arbitration this year. We’d have to give up a pretty good prospect to get him I’d imagine and I think that Garcia may have similar upside and is cost controlled for another 4-5 seasons. If we’re going to pay Correia $3-4M and give up a prospect, I’d rather just sign Carl Pavano, who was just as good in a better league last year, for a couple million more and keep the ’spects.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Oh, I don't think the Cards should trade for him. . .
I think your analysis of him is pretty spot on, although we might differ on the value of a “league-average pitcher”. Those guys are pretty valuable.
Garcia may or may not be a better pitcher than Correia at this point (all else being equal, which of course it’s not, I’d rather have Correia starting Game 4 of an NLDS than Garcia). I’m pretty sure Mitch Boggs is not anywhere near the pitcher Kevin Correia is right now, as you seemed to indicate in the post to which I replied.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 3, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
He's a poor man's Kyle Lohse, imo
He’s had one good year, and that came pitching his home games in the best pitcher’s park in baseball. I think that both Garcia and Boggs have the potential to be as good as Correia is right now, and we have them basically for free for the next year or two and cost controlled after that.
I also was replying to a post that basically was stating that we should sign Smoltz AND trade for Kevin Correia, which doesn’t make any sense, because you’re trading for a #5 when you have two pitchers who profile to be better than the league average #5 starter right now — why give up prospects to marginally improve your #5 starter for one year by trading for a guy coming off of a career year, who will probably make less than a bunch of guys that you could sign as free agents without giving up prospects.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
PAVANO
Pavano Pavano, Pavano. Pavano! Pavano – Pavano “Pavano Pavano, Pavano”.
Pavano….
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
Is Pavano from Buffalo, by any chance?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Buffalo?
I don’t get it.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I suck at googling
so does anyone know where I can find an awesome picture of the Julio Lugo glare.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
lenses all broke
good luck.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Saw them on Jools Holland just the other day.
Guy has some serious fucking pipes. (Vox wise, not arms.)
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 3, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
slight OT
anyone ever played the game “Kubb”? It’s a Scandinavian kind of a cross between dodgeball, chess, and sex. On ketamine. Highly recommended.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 4, 2009 5:16 AM EST up reply actions
Ok, I thought for sure you were making this up, but Wikipedia confirms it.
Although… while I get the dodgeball/chess comparison, I’m not seeing the sex part. Is it because sticks of wood fly through the air aiming for things?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
but you do take a lot of ketamine.
so you’d probably pick it up as you go.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I usually go through and listen to your mixes RB
Good job as always
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 3, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
Arigato.
It’s nice to be appreciated.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 3, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
so is anyone a little afraid of these Dye rumors
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
he's adam dunn with the glove
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
But far from it with the bat.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 3, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
yes, very afraid
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Situations where someone could use that...
1. Wife/Significant Other talking about their day.
2. Rams loss.
3. Ankiel signs with the Pirates.
4. Tiger Woods says he’s banging another cocktail waitress.
……
Bird is the word.
come on man
number 2 NEVER happens!
jd is legend for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 3, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
mostly i feel bad for this lady. she's not the first one to be fat or to write bad poetry.
and really, the second poem is just “haha, you’re fat” expressed in different, not very clever ways. satire should be there to take the wind out of pompous asses, not to take a crap on people who don’t have much.
mocking “twilight” writing, fred durst, or joe morgan = good
mocking sad anonymous internet people writing = bad
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 3, 2009 3:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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