Holliday's Mystery Suitor: Baltimore
by DanUpBaby on Dec 17, 2009 2:51 AM EST
Email
PrintNothing says Lukewarm Stove season like a rebuilding team making bids on the biggest remaining free agent contract of the offseason. I don't want to start doubting Scott Boras now, because he's given me no reason to in the past, but if the Orioles are being floated as the other team this late in the game—well, the Yankees and Mets are presumably way under the radar on this one.
I actually wouldn't hate this move from Baltimore's standpoint. They've got a pretty good system, with some young pitching set to renovate what was a hilariously bad rotation—they collectively managed 58 quality starts, six fewer than the next team and 41 fewer than league leading Atlanta—and signing Garrett Atkins and trading for Kevin Millwood are low-risk moves that will be an easy upgrade from Melvin Mora and the back of that rotation's awful work. The Orioles, like the Pirates in the NL Central, simply can't afford to be terrible any more; their attendance has fallen into a huge hole and they're in a division that squashes the hopes and dreams of plucky fans as a matter of course. Their moves in this offseason have pushed them toward being respectable in the short term without hindering their chances of being good in the long term.
But while spending a ton of money on a free agent would be the perfect capper to an offseason designed to inspire fanbase confidence, this is not the right offseason, and Matt Holliday is not the right free agent. The Orioles already have too many cheap, effective outfielders—Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, Nolan Reimold, perpetual tradebait Luke Scott, and former Cubs super-prospect and erstwhile hometown discount inducer Felix Pie are all competing for at-bats—and all of their most pressing needs, and the easiest places to pick up runs against a troupe of very real replacement players, are on the pitching side. O's management seems to have understood that to this point, replacing their worst players with some potentially average players and Mike Gonzalez. Holliday would be a step back from that plan.
#
Of course, the Orioles not making their rumored move does not mean the Cardinals do sign him, as wonderful a system as that would be. All that implausibility still leaves Matt Holliday wanting more than $128 million, and the Cardinals (reasonably) not wanting quite that much Matt Holliday.
The payroll is not a gift card; the money DeWitt is planning to spend right now does not expire, and if he spends it all in the next thirty days he will not receive an even larger inheritance. But the Cardinals' other options are looking increasingly unappetizing. From a blurb about how the Cardinals are not interested in Chien-Ming Wang, but might be:
The Cardinals have said if they fail to re-sign Holliday they could turn to signing a veteran starting pitcher for the fifth spot in the rotation. Their preference would be to do so on a one-year deal.
Try not to be too excited about that sentence, or this one, because according to VEB's hit-tracker you're probably reading it at work: if the Cardinals do not manage to sign a popular, slugging outfielder to the largest contract in the history of the franchise, thereby setting its course for the next decade, they could sign a veteran starting pitcher like Chien-Ming Wang to a one-year deal. For all we know, this conditional has been around for the last several years—the Cardinals didn't sign Matt Holliday in any of them, and as a result picked up Kyle Lohse, Kip Wells, Brett Tomko, and Matt Clement.
I don't envy Mozeliak and DeWitt here; this is simply awful timing for the Cardinals' last serious free-payroll run at the free agent market before they need to worry about Pujols. Jason Bay, whose contractual demands—he might want five years—are relatively piddling, is the only other Big Name player on the market, and the defensive collapse brought on by his knee problems in 2007 makes him a much riskier upgrade. If Holliday falls through, that's it; for all their good intentions, the Cardinals will have little choice but to have a typical Cardinals offseason.
If that means an outfield cobbled together from spare parts, here's my current pick—a Jack Cust/Allen Craig platoon with a variation on the old Killer Bees tag team trick. La Russa has them both wear masks, and between innings Brendan Ryan is used to create a distraction; if pro wrestling has taught me anything, and it has, the umpire won't know that Craig has secretly taken left field while his back was turned.
#
Non-Holliday front: Future Redbirds has begun counting down their top twenty Cardinals prospects. Notable, given our discussion of Sickels's list: Bryan Anderson rates thirteenth.
1055 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Not a whole tool shed?
Visual aid
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I'd like to take him a trip to the see the other side of the toolshed.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 17, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
That took me a while.
Joe Strauss: Adjustable Crescent Wrench?
Joe Strauss: Handy In A Plumbing Emergency?
Joe Strauss: The Gift For The Dad Who Has Everything But Basic Tools?
by arch support on Dec 17, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
If the Orioles are serious about Holliday...
they would need to perform some creative roster moves.
I don’t see them getting rid of Adam Jones, he’s productive and very cheap.
Markakis is one of their best RBI guys.
There best bet would probably be to deal Felix Pie for a pitching prospect. He’s actually become a decent outfielder, post-Cubs.
They’ve also got a younger outfielder by the name of Nolan Reimold that put up decent numbers for only getting about 350 ABs. He hit .279 w/15 HRs and 45 RBI.
Anyway, long story short, I think Baltimore is just throwing a hat in the ring for the hell of it.
Holliday and Boras have to understand that even if Baltimore were to have a remarkable season, they are probably looking at 3rd place in the AL East, at best. They’re not quite a contender for the post-season.
I can't see Baltimore finishing any higher than 4th
by vivaelpujols on Dec 17, 2009 3:22 AM EST up reply actions
For Baltimore, Toronto, and Tampa
it must be tough playing in that division. Must feel like you are shoveling sand into the wind. You need to hit HR’s in the draft but then the Yankees sign CC or the Sox trade for Adrian Gonzalez (Gonna Happen). Must be deflating. Tampa showed that it can happen but thats not the norm. If Holliday wants to chase the money and play in that scenario, he deserves his 4th and 5th place finishes for the remainder of his career.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Dec 17, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you would have asked me a week ago
if Gonzalez was going to be traded, I would have said no, now with Lackey…..
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
head butts all around
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 17, 2009 3:41 AM EST reply actions
The Os have some very good young talent
But they’re doomed, at best, to be a good team in a division with great teams. While signing Holliday is not an ideal move for them, it does make sense. He would energize the franchise to some extent, in my opinion. Markakis, Jones, Weiters, Reimold make a pretty good foundation. They could maybe put Holliday at 1B and have a pretty competitive first 8.
Ummm can Holliday even plays 1st base?
And about the O’s. Peter Angelos is crazy. I bet he’s missing Tom Hicks right now.
They'll convert him to 2nd.
ANYONE can play 2nd base.
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.
by flipthebird on Dec 17, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
my favorite meme
Really, the only bad part of bacon is that it makes you thirsty . . . for more bacon
crap, I gotta add that to the glossary too.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Atkins and Holliday: Reunited?
Atkins and Holliday were close friends through their years in COL. Atkins lived with Holliday during Spring Training and even babysat Matt’s kids. I know it’s all about money w/Boras, but the chance be a teammate w/Atkins again, could also be a motivating factor for Matt – however small.
I also wonder if it’s a stretch to think Holliday’s absence from COL in 2009 played some part in Atkins’ dismal season. In 2008, Atkins was able to recover in the second-half with Holliday still around – maybe giving advice or a friendly confidence boost. But in 2009 Atkins’ performance spiraled downward and he looked lost at the dish. Coincidence? I dunno.
I still think Holliday ends up w/the Mets. Hope I’m wrong. I can’t stand the Mets. I am certain of this: Now that Mo has made the parameters of the offer public knowledge (good move), if Matt Holliday does not sign with the Cardinals, when he steps to the plate at Busch III, he will be greeted with a storm of boos unmatched since the days of Jeffrey Leonard!
i think it depends on what the contract is
I could stand a few more heavily sarcastic rounds of applause.
slow clap!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
WWL continues to label us Best Fans Ever ftw.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Well I guess they're not as moranic as I thought.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
well, in that hypothetical situation
Greeny: Despite everything, despite the — as Saint Louis bloggers so eloquently put it — nutshot to end all nutshots…
Golic: [groans] Did you have to…
Greeny: Matt Holliday still received a warm round of applause at Busch Stadium.
Golic: You had to go there, didn’t you.
Greeny: I just think it proves something about St. Louis baseball!
Kurkjian: Guys… I think they were being sarcastic.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Is this a transcript or did you just write that yourself?
Either way, awesome.
And did u c wat eye did ther re: spelling of the word “moronic” in my post?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
...I didn't even read it as the wrong spelling.
Thanks VEB!!! Now my internal grammar police is broken.
It’s a projected script for four months from now. I haven’t plugged in the percentages yet, though.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
oh, I forgot to put in hyperbole on the contract
Greeny’s more verbose than that
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
He likes to play with words, yeah
I actually enjoy that show way more than I thought I ever would. Depending on the topic of course.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
when they're trying to be right about something, it spirals into suckage fast
when they’re trying to be entertaining, it’s pretty entertaining.
my dream is to see Boog as a guest. even over the phone.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
moocow, i sincerely hope that's not
WJSWICE.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
probably not, no
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/12/14/1201012/the-joe-strauss-overnight-thread#27161816
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Sound analysis. As something fun to listen to in the morning it's not bad at all.
Though I am also really warming up to those goofy 1380 guys. The problem is that they usually don’t talk about anything at all, and that leaves it up to chance as to whether it’ll be entertaining or not.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
x100
for analysis of St. Louis morning drive time “sports” radio
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I actually listen to 101.1 ESPN Radio
Only sports radio I have ever listened to before on a regular basis. Most of the time they seem pretty sane.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
you're talking about TMA right?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I guess? I can never remember.
It usually has Jimmy the Cat, Vaughn, McKiernan, maybe someone else whose name I would probably also misspell.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yeah tmac, the cat & the prime minster
it’s a terrible show but i can’t stop listening
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Booing players with bad agents
I remember going to a game when Renteria came back after negotiating horribly with the cards. Some people booed him, but it was more reflective of how his agent acted when trying to sign him to a big deal after a few good years with the cards. If we offer him something fair and he goes somewhere else for an extra million, yeah, I’d boo because he’s a sellout. How many giant contracts actually help a team win? remember Mulder?
No
The player has the final say, not the agent.
If Holliday wants to end up in STL, even if it isn’t he best offer, that is his choice, not Boras’.
Matt Holliday. Nuff said.
by SoonerfanTU on Dec 17, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
We offered a contract with a lot of deferred money
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
And in any case
What connection does Edgar Renteria have to St. Louis? Why does he owe much loyalty to the Cards? If the Cardinals had the chance to trade him straight up for a better shortstop…..they would have!
MLB isn’t a kids game, it’s a business.
Not afraid to nitpick
Unless you're a fan. Then it's a kids game.
so you jeer and scream and taunt and boo players who are greedy or have bad agents
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 17, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
yeah but Edgar said he felt dissed by the Cards "only" offering $1Mil less than bean town
i know, differed money & all but still the total was only $1Mil less. he took shots at the team at his press conference & as you all know, you don’t take shots at the Cardinals & not expect to get booed. the fact that he even went to bean town after what happened was enough for many fans to boo him even to this day. he had a good thing going & he totally wilted under the pressure of bean town. and i guarantee you many fans think he got just what he deserved.
i’ll never forgive him for that simply because it opened the door to the Marky F’ing Mark Mulder. if Edgar would have signed, Walt said they never would have even talked to the A’s because they could not afford to take on his contract. that pisses me off more than anything he said or did once he left.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
we might
but we probably wouldn’t have tyler greene
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
just about to say the same.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
I'm almost positive
That we took Rasmus first because the Marlins were tied to him. We actually paid Greene more money.
Not afraid to nitpick
yeah
there’s the chance he wouldn’t have fallen another two spots, but he easily could have
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i love it when people throw around "an extra million"
or a “couple of million” as if it’s nothing or shouldn’t make a difference. It’s a MILLION dollars.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 17, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
if it was just about Baby sitting than he would be Boston bound
The Red Sox pitching coach used to babysit Holliday.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
HFS ®
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Ken Griffey Jr used to play with Colby
is he headed for the M’s?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Colby Rasmus for
Felix and Cliff Lee. Done
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Seattle is a fine place to raise a kid
I hear Dave Duncan’s there, too.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Clay Bennett would like to respectfully disagree.
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
he reproduced?
I thought he just screwed them over.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I will say this:
That whole situation has done something I never thought possible: made listening to Adam Sandler’s Chanukah Song even MORE cringeworthy.
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
Rock--et--man!... Rocketman!
I can’t not imagine Shatner whenever I think about that song.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The pitching coach used to play baseball at Oklahoma St
Where Holliday’s day was the coach. Than he came back and was the pitching coach for him afterwards.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.
Try not to be too excited about that sentence, or this one, because according to VEB’s hit-tracker you’re probably reading it at work
They’re watching me . . .
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Sure, you're paranoid . . .
but are you paranoid enough?
by arch support on Dec 17, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
I actually prefer
“Just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.”
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Bigger Inheritance
Great Brewster’s Millions reference Dan. I don’t find too many people that enjoy that movie as much as I do.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
When Jason Bay...
was being touted as a possible fit for the Seattle, Dave Cameron at USSMariner wrote a post about the “Smell Test” for hot stove rumors. Jason Bay, by taking away much of what he does w/ the bat w/ what he does (or can’t get to) in the field, didn’t seem like a fit for what their front office had done in it’s first year. I think the same applies principle applies w/ this Baltimore rumor.
I don’t think it pasts the “smell test.”
So if Baltimore winds up with surplus outfielders
what pitching prospect(s) do TLR and Duncan urge Mo to trade for one of ‘em, and which one? Because, you know, you can’t have too many fringy veterans, and pitching prospects are Faberge eggs anyway.
Hmmmm
I wonder I think Rasmus still has more potential than we say last year but it is an interesting swap.
Naw I wouldn’t give up Colby. maybe someone else.
They're incredibly similar in my opinion
I don’t know how Jones’ defense compares to Rasmus’, but just do the Compare option at BaseballReference.com and look at those two next to each other. They’re the same guy. In fact I think Colby will be better. Their first full years in the majors are almost identical, hitting wise, and they were both in their age 22 years. Colby walked a little more and hit a few more dingers. He’s been less reliant on batting average to get on base over all. I wouldn’t give up Rasmus to get Jones.
Also, Jones went from a very “Colby-like” debut year to improve quite a bit in 2009.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Colby can't hit dingers
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Gah, meme fail.
I can’t believe I made such a rookie mistake (see what I did there?). Of course I meant that the number of dongs jacked by Colby in his first year is greater than the number of dingers hit by Adam Jones in his first year.
Since one if lefty and one is righty, can I assume that dongs jacked equals dingers * -1? In which case our inequality should look like this:
|22y.o.Colby(dong jacked)| > |22y.o.Jones(dingers hit)|
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
there's a very simple fix for him that i'm sure Big Mac will do
turn him into a righty
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I think Rasmus is better than Jones
and by quite a reasonable distance, given he’s got two more (I think) years of team control and is similarly good now with (arguably) more upside. Still, I like Jones a lot.
I would be very keen on Luke Scott in LF if they had a mind to trade him, however, I don’t really agree with going after players just after they’ve had career years.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Baltimore
Why does this make sense? They have pretty good OF depth while having nothing in the IF. Plus they are probably 2-3 years away from seriously competing, why not wait until next year to make the big FA splash – ie Crawford.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
Rumors sheer rumors
The main quote from Ken Rosenthal and John Paul Morosi’s website
The Orioles have jumped into the bidding, though both the seriousness of their efforts and Holliday’s desire to play in Baltimore are in question, major-league sources say.
My thinking is that Boras, the agent for Mike Gonzalez recently signed by the O’s, had an off the record talk with Andy MacPhail. During the final discussions on that contract, Scott asked Andy if he thought Holliday is a good buy on a 4 year/$80M contract. Andy said, he would take that deal. Scott calls Ken and said the O’s are players. The best Ken can do with the reasoning is that Matt and Garrett Atkins are BFFs.
Living in Baltimore, I can tell you that the fan base will be non-pulsed by the signing of Holliday. Beating NYY and Boston at home will start to energize the fan base. Nothing turns off a home crowd more than to have 15,000 Yankee or Red Sox fans cheering in your own park as your team goes down in flames again. A winning season might help too.
Holliday
If he wants to chase the money to Baltimore, let him. He’ll finish in 4th place for the next 5 years and most likely will be miserable.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
But he can still get his re-ups from Slim Charles, yo!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
If Matt doesn't sign with us then he will forever be rememered for one thing....
Please take the money Matt don’t be a douch!!!
I'm still in shock
It hasn’t completely hit me yet that he didn’t catch that ball
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I really think that that one play is the cause
for us losing that game…. Franklin was a total mess after that play and couldn’t have retired the side against a little leauge team.
damn it
we need Smoltz to be our closer!
by shadetree on Dec 17, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 17, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
NO
no, no, no, no, no, no, no…might as well get gregg if you want capps
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 18, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
bleh.
he needs to be more of a clubhouse guy too! I’d like to see more grit personally.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
He's not bad
he’s just not very good and if the Cards hope to compete for a WS then he is just not good enough.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
by njnick on Dec 17, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
b/c they are not very good
well izzy was but not so much later in his career.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
well according to Franklin
he was told it was okay to walk Casey Blake and it just fell apart from there..
that's right
blame Dave Duncan. Frankie was told ‘relax’.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well I wouldn't go that far
he had to make those pitches
but it’s not like he did a frickin’ Lidge. it just felt that way.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
i'm gonna milk that joke till it catches on.
gotta cut back on my franklins. damn holidays. (damn you, Holliday!)
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
are we so shellshocked from Izzy that we can't give a guy a pass
on his first year of closing? when he really doesn’t have the personality to close, or even figured that he was closer stuff at all?
he and Yadi have figured out a workable system. let it breathe. Frankie’s done nothing close to meriting the Izzy Cheering Section.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
It's not Franklin's fault that he had unbelievably great luck last year.
We saw what happens when his luck turned. Franklin plainly does not have the ability to strike a batter out when he absolutely has to, let alone more than one batter. It’s also not his fault that we didn’t have anyone who performed better on our roster or that TLR will now stick with him through thick and thin like he did Izzy. Franklin is a useful reliever who was extended into his late 30s by Mo (a strategy which tends not to work well). Should he be the closer? No, probably not. But that’s what we were left with we traded for DeRosa and Motte failed to impress.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh, I don't dispute that
I dispute the intensity of the response.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
and it does piss me off that he's taking heat for Dave Duncan's gameplan.
much of that “luck” was the machinations of DD and Yadi? watch the games again, some of it shows. how come they don’t get blamed? no, it has to be the guy in the goat beard, and only him. can’t trust ’em.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
it's a family thing.
Mama Molina calls up all the boys to criticize them.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
that she is
article links
from 2005
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05287/588744-63.stm
Mrs. Matta yells at Angels pitchers for making her sons dig balls out of the dirt, criticizes outfielders for delivering weak throws to the plate and covers her eyes and prays when one of her boys comes to bat.
sloppy SI article (Bengie’s still on the first wife)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1110047/index.htm
from 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/29/sports/baseball/29molinas.html
While José was working out for an Angels scout in 1993, Gladys showed up with a newspaper article that gushed about Bengie batting over .400 in a local league.
"She was being a mom," José said.
Sitting on her living room couch, Gladys showed how she waved the paper in the scout’s face and insisted that Bengie deserved a tryout, too. She kept talking and waving and begging. Finally, the scout said he would give Bengie a chance if Bengie could catch.
Sadly none of these are the article I was looking for — where she yells at them if they do something wrong. Hehe.
I should really call her Mrs. Matta — maiden name.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, Mom Matta, it don't Mattah
Go Broncos!!
by from First to Third on Dec 17, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW
I don’t think Perez has shown that he’s got the good to be a closer yet either. He puts together really good stretches of games and then goes two weeks of appearances where he can’t find the plate. Would I rather have him than Motte? I’m not sure how to answer that one. I think Motte could improve a lot just by going back to what got him here — throwing lots of fastballs for strikes while figuring out an out pitch.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
exactly
we didn’t and don’t have any better options
I mean, I really am not disputing that Franklin sucks. but Wellemeyer sucked, and he probably did it on purpose — why does Frankie get all the haterade around here before he even throws the first pitch of oh-ten?
his outs came from the gameplan. there were a lot of fingers in that pie. I’m just generally tired of the never-ending refrain of how much he sucks. we know, already. the thing is, how much he sucks is built into how the team gets outs in the ninth, and he did pretty well for his first year.
be thankful it isn’t as bad as 07 and 08.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
The never-ending refrain of how much he sucks?
Did pretty well for his first year? Didn’t and don’t have any better options?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i'm not posting an American Pie pic
you’re all welcome
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
he did pretty well for his first year
Really, the only bad part of bacon is that it makes you thirsty . . . for more bacon
He doesn't "suck"
he’s just not a closer. He doesn’t have closer stuff. He can’t get strikeouts.
He’s a setup guy, and a pretty good one at that. He can pitch multiple innings a couple of times a week of necessary, and he’s good in the 7th and 8th when he can start innings.
That’s why I’m on the Kiko Calero bandwagon. He strikes out a lot of hitters, has a good closer makeup and pitches, and they could share the role and neither of them would be pissed about sharing it.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I was excited to see Calero's name come up as a FA this year
Although I think as well he would fit in our pen, I haven’t thought of him as a closer, I just assumed it would be Frankies job again next year. However I would not be at all dissapointed if Franklin lost the closers job somehwhat, Calero would be a decent type to put in there I imagine with what you said there. I would hope that the FO thinks this way as well, I still feel with or without Holliday we need a high K guy to fill in the back, or we need Motte to get things together.
Go Broncos!!
by from First to Third on Dec 17, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
i want Kiko & Russ back badly
and Smoltzy too
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I would think if anything one of those three will be here
or MacDougal, if thats how ya spell it
Go Broncos!!
by from First to Third on Dec 17, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
MacDougal has some talent, I think
I’d be open to a league minimum deal.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 18, 2009 5:37 AM EST up reply actions
It's a proxy
TLR invented the closer role, loves veterans, and favors favorites—often to a fault. Also, Franklin was a party to the excrutiating 2008 late inning follies. I think that people don’t trust him and expect him to revert back to that level of performance and they don’t want to be watching the twenty-some-odd games it takes TLR to figure out that Franklin is a smoke-and-mirrors closer, but the smoke is lacking and the mirrors are shattered.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
so, motte's done?
after his first full season?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
No.
I like Motte and think he has potential. I liked Perez more and Todd even better, though. My comment was meant to be more retrospective than perspective. I hope Motte is the Closer of the Future and that the future is a near one. I am not very hopeful, though, that Motte, or anyone else, will close while Franklin and TLR are under contract.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Duncan's on record looking for a back up closer
Goold’s article based on Duncan’s radio appearance from last Sunday has the following:
I think that finding that guy that Tony (La Russa) and I both have confidence in that you could use to spell Franklin whenever there’s a time to do it — whenever he’s being pushed beyond what we think is reasonable limits — to add that guy would be really important to our ballclub, probably equally important to getting an experienced fifth starter," Duncan told us. "I think that Ryan Franklin has done a great job for us, but one thing about Ryan is he’s at his best when he’s physically strong. and whenever you push him too hard he loses a little edge that he cannot afford to lose with his style of pitching. To add a guy that you would feel comfortable using to close out a game on a day that Franklin has pitched two or three days in a row and you know you shouldn’t use him would be a plus for our ballclub.
"There might be somebody (internally)," Duncan continued. "The emergence of (Jason) Motte. If he continues to improve, he could be that guy. (Mitchell) Boggs could be that guy. Boggs certainly has the physical abilities to do it. If his command improves a little bit, he could be a guy that could do that as well. It doesn’t necessarily have to come from outside the organization. It certainly could come from within."
I read that, too,
and it doesn’t change my outlook on Franklin the Closer. Because, if we make the playoffs, Franklin will be the closer, not the designated Franklin back-up.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
isn't that a closer's job?
to perform under pressure?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 17, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
come on
Franklin’s not bad. he just needs to learn to perform better under pressure
How many guys with a 15-year professional careers suddenly learn “how to perform better under pressure” at the age of 36?
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
damn you RR now i've got that f'in commercial song stuck in me head
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
thank you?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
well in all fairness
he did hit a HR in that game to even give us a shot to win it.
i don’t know if those two cancel each other out, though
it's not how you start, it's all about how you finish
that’s what people will remember you for
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
very nice.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i sit em up, you'll knock em down
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
That was a long night for me...
I was so pissed off I shut the TV off and walked a block and half to a nearby river and hit golfballs in the black of night into the water while chugging beer till the pain was numbed up enough for me to calm down and go home.
Also I really don’t want to change my sig so that SOB better stop messing around and sign already.
Holliday.
Uh huh, oh yeah.
Holliday.
He will be so nice.
Within a few moments of Game 2's conclusion,
my anger was fueled by the anticipation of the very process in which we are currently involved. Listening to Boras spew his talking points as Holliday asks for the moon to come back to St. Louis while Cardinal Nation’s lasting memory of the man is him blowing the most routine of plays at the biggest of moments to cost us a 1-1 split on the road in L.A.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
no shit!
if he goes for the big money, maybe I won’t blame him, but I will finally get around to sending him a bill for my coffee table, which sustained a rather permanent injury immediately following that play.
you hear that Matt!?!
if you go elsewhere you better sign big, because you’re in the hole to me for some serious money…we’re talking Ikea money here.
are you talking to yourself?
btw congratulations on setting off 3000 comments by saying you were bored. hahaha.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I will gladly sign, I'm sorry I haven't been able to announce it to you guys yet. I'm even going to accept the lowball offer.
5 years is plenty. I’d be thrilled to have the privilege to suit up every day for such a great ball club with so much rich history, and play alongside teammates like Albert Pujols, Chris Carpenter, and Adam Wainwright. Working with coaches Tony La Russa, Jose Oquendo, and Mark McGwire will be wonderful, and getting to play in front of the Best Fans In Baseball™ is a dream come true for me.
When I get my first pay check I’ll buy you an entire Ikea store if you want.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
be careful of that bench guy, vexed
I hear he tips his pitches
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
what is he really waiting on?
Okay from Boras? For Bay to sign? For us to tell him to go to hell? I doubt that he’ll get more money. NYY don’t need him, BOS doesn’t want him, does he really want to pray for the Mets? the Mets? Really?
talking to Boras = Stockholm syndrome
it’s been many long months since he’s been in the Man Stew. they forget.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
i still think he ends up on the yankees
we didn’t really hear jack shit (from what I recall) last season about them pursuing Tex until he was signed.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
They will move from Damon and offer Holliday what he is searching for, plus I think he wants to play in NY.
Mo, you can trade anything of mine.
If Boras pushes Holliday on the Yankees
isn’t he kinda screwing his other client, damon. I’m pretty sure he wants to return to New York.
then he'll push Damon on the Cards
Cards overpay him
???
Profit
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I can't see the Cards going after Ank
after this past season. He wasn’t worth the $2.8M we were paying him to begin with, and the fact that he struggled all season long (especially after the shoulder injury) didn’t help his cause.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
I just don't envision
the Cards overpaying for Damon if they won’t overpay for Holliday, they’ve never been the real desperate type.
You're right.
The media was abuzz w/other suitors (O’s , Halos, BOS), then BOOM. Tex signed the mega-deal w/NYY. I think the likelihood of Holliday signing w/NYY decreased w/the Granderson trade, tho. Wish I could have seen the look on Boras’ face when he heard news of the Granderson trade… You know… The look that says, “WTF? What are you doing, Cashman? I have the premier Outfielder this Winter! We’re supposed to keep the media buzzing until at least January and then you are supposed to hand me and my client an 8-year $200 million contract! Ahhhhhh!” ;)
This makes no sense for Baltimore
They currently have one of the youngest and best defensive outfields in baseball: Pie, Jones, and Markakis are all 1 win players at their respective current positions — Reimold and Scott are decent hitters who don’t play defense as well as Pie, but can play LF if a bat is needed. What the O’s need is a 1B, so they should be looking to deal for Adrian Gonzalez to keep the Red Sox from getting him, or be looking at signing Nick Johnson or Russell Branyan to a cheap deal.
They have plenty of young pitching, and they have addressed their need for a closer and 3B reclamation project with the Gonzalez and Atkins signings. They simply don’t need Holliday, and would be better off waiting to spend some serious money next year, when Derrick Lee will be a FA, and there will be some pretty good pitchers to choose from: Beckett, Cliff Lee, Lilly, and Javy Vazquez.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
They should be all over
Branyan and Nick Johnson. Why they aren’t I have no idea. I guess that would leave them with a lineup that is pretty dedicated to left-handed hitters (Jones, Pie, Scott, Branyan/Johnson), but there isn’t a decent RHH 1B out there right now, and Markakis, Wieters, Reimold, and Atkins are all very good/decent right handed bats.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yeah, I think Branyan is a perfect fit for them
plug him in at 1B and you’re actually looking at a very strong lineup IMO. They could maybe use someone at SS as well, mind you…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I actually think Johnson fits them better
He’s a high OBP guy who plays very good defense. His problem has been staying healthy, although most of his injuries have been the Kevin Mitchell type (i.e. he just has really, really shitty luck most of the time.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Kevin Mitchell?
or Geronimo Pena?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
then he should've gotten himself a better baseball nickname.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'm not blown away by "Nick" either.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
that's what she said.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Dec 17, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i had a feeling someone would see it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
well tom_lawless hasn't been around for a couple of days
so I’m taking over his duties until he returns.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
+1, fourstick
NJ would be a really good fit for BAL. Sounds like the Yanks are after him, tho. Stiff competition.
BAL lineup
A-Jones is a RHH. Markakis is a LHH.
If Atkins returns to form, they’re lineup should be alright. Atkins + A-Jones would give them two RHH w/some power who hit lefties well. Add in a year of development from Reimold and you could possibly bump that number up to three. Wieters (switch-hitter) did not fare as well against righties last year, but that was a small sample size and I don’t have his minors splits on-hand. Not sure I would project his minors splits into the MLB, anyway. We know that doesn’t always work.
You think?
Unless he’s hiding an injury, I think he could turn it around in BAL. Why do you think he’s done?
It's just a bad sign
when you can’t hit in one of the best hitter’s parks in America.
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
Everyone...
…has a bad year now and again. He’s worth a try to see if he can be useful.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I didn't say that
I was actually for signing him, but he got beat out by a platoon hitter (Ian Stewart).
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
Agreed
His numbers are all trending the wrong direction, and none of it appears to be luck-related.
Maybe he’ll fix whatever he’s doing wrong, but unless that happens, he’s toast.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
roberts too
good switch hitter.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone always says this
and then they end up winning 80-90 games every year. Somehow. Kenny Williams is an evil genius.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Kinda like our starting rotation most years.
By the way I hope if Joel signs with the brewers that the same thing happens that happend to Soup and Looper… nothing against him or the others but it is alway funny watchin the brew crew throw money at our pitchers and having an epic fail.
by shadetree on Dec 17, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
...and then their stats improve after every series with the Cards.
yeah. it’s only funny until it works. sigh.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
It seems that former Cards play well against the Cards
even if they don’t play worth a crap against other teams. It’s sad and frustrating.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
I don't think williams is too bad
he’s wierd as hell, certainly, but he’s the only GM in baseball that seems to mix up really awful, Sabean/Bavasi-type old school clueless deals with the occasional really good one. I guess he’s just an old-school GM in the Wade/Sabean/Minaya mould but that he’s just better at it than they are.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I think Kenny Williams is one of the most entertaining GM's out there
That lineup they have is really not that bad. If they can pick up Dunn or another LH DH bat, they should be set for a decent team with a killer rotation.
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
Thome
That is all.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Touche
It’s just a dream to imagine Dunn in the position and league he belongs in…
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
My Sox fan friends love it
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Funny video someone just e-mailed me about the cubs/cardinals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsELQmqZwAw
sorry if it’s a repost
by CardsFanSmikema on Dec 17, 2009 10:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I have to find out what movie that is
ive seen SO many parodies
by jealousblues on Dec 17, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
and they all work from the ones I've seen.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
The Walrus at third.
Surely, this news marks the END OF MONEYBALL (as sportswriters (mis)understand it):
Oakland obtained Wallace in the high-profile Matt Holliday deal with St. Louis in July, and though the team has no reservations about his bat, Wallace’s defense was another matter. The A’s apparently came to doubt the stocky Wallace’s ability to play third at the big-league level, and the team already has plenty of young first basemen, including Daric Barton, Chris Carter and Sean Doolittle.
In addition, the team recently acquired third baseman Jake Fox from the Cubs, and he is not considered a top-notch defensive player, either. Therefore, Oakland is planning to move second-base prospect Adrian Cardenas to third base full time, especially with Jemile Weeks, the team’s top pick in the 2008 draft, performing well at second.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I doubt it
Not with Travis Snider and Adam Lind in the picture — both of those guys have better bats than Wallace does, and Lind really doesn’t have a defensive position — he’s a cross between Adam Dunn and Jack Cust.
Wallace is going to end up at first base, because Lyle Overbay isn’t signed past this season. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Jays tried to move Overbay to someone looking for a first baseman.
FWIW, I think this says a whole lot about the value of Wallace as a trade candidate last July too. I don’t think anyone out there thought he was going to play 3B at the big league level, and knew that the Cardinals weren’t installing him at 1B any time soon. I think, in hindsight, that Mo had Wallace valued pretty well as a prospect.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i do as well, too bad he didn't get equal value for him when he was traded
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I dunno
Seems like we got pretty good value for him. Shane Peterson was behind five other guys in our own organization (Robinson, Henley, Jay, Tools, Craig) at the time of the trade — he’s not really much more than a C prospect. You could argue that Mortenson had more value — you can also argue that he didn’t have much, since he hasn’t pitched worth a crap above A ball really. Wallace was the guy in that package — if we had Mort and Peterson in our ML system at the present time, it would still be in the bottom 5 or 6 farm systems in baseball. They aren’t game changers.
When you figure what Beane gave up to GET Holliday, we’re coming out on this end smelling like a rose really. He essentially traded an OF prospect to get a veteran OF to trade for 3 prospects, one of which he dealt for an OF prospect. Now, if we’re able to sign Holliday, we don’t have to ship a draft pick to Oakland, we’ll have 2-4 picks in the top 50 or 60 in the next draft.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
wasn't it the DeRosa trade that stank the most?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
In my opinion, yes.
But, I like Perez a lot more than fourstick and many others. I am also a big Jess Todd fan. Regardless of the trade, I wish we’d have used our biggest trade chips—and I think that Wallace, Todd, and Perez were our biggest—for players we had under control for more than a few months each. That said, I’m interested to see what we do with the draft picks we accumulate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
In hindsight, yes
but then we didn’t know he was going to get hurt either. What I didn’t like about that trade was the PTBNL that ended up being Todd. I thought Perez for DeRosa was a fair swap. Todd could be competing with Hawk for bullpen duty this year.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i probably over value Walrus & YP more than most
i think we gave up way too much in both trades, but i think the DeRo trade was a worse trade than the Lego trade simple because Todd was the PTBN. that was just stupid of MO to include him. i agree that Mort & Peterson are probably more filler players right now, and don’t project to be stars.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I think Perez and Todd trade was much worst
I never that Wallace was going to be on this team. Was drafted to be a trade chip.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't mind the DeRosa trade as much
I feel like we gave up a lot more in the Holliday trade, obviously for a better player, but until the injury, DeRo looked like a great fit for us and probably +2 wins or so to our final total. The Holliday trade wasn’t really necessary, whereas the DeRosa one was.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 18, 2009 6:29 AM EST up reply actions
Eh.
Flags fly forever, and before the infamous nutshot, that looked like a good bet to have taken. I didn’t love the deal, but I certainly didn’t hate it. I think it was pretty fair value, and I’m a huger fan of the Walrus than many on here. Mortenson and Shane P were mere organizational filler.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
shot was worth taking imo
i think when we got to july and carp and wainer were both still healthy and we were in first place Mo felt he had to pull the trigger and go for it.
i don’t remember feeling that way at the time but looking back i think it was a good bet.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
appropriate that you're FutureMan
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
/resists urge to make inappropriate jokes about basement dwellars
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 17, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
that almost sounded dirty fella
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Yah
like they didn’t just get a top 20 OF prospect for Wallace or something.
I don’t think that Oakland ever seriously considered putting him at 3B, he was insurance against Barton not making it back and he looks healthy, and he’s very good trade bait because of his bat.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Barton still counts as "young"?
"But as the leadoff guy that inning, my job is to get on base and let guys drive me in." - Albert Pujols 8/20/09, base-clogger.
what is he, 24?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
yup 24...
I actually still think he has a chance to be a very good hitter. The problem with guys like Barton is there’s a limited number of DH jobs and you really have to hit to make it. I think he’s capable of 300/400/500, no problem.
MB for LF in 2010!
300/400/500 no problem?
Jesus, man.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
He almost did that...
over 120 plate appearances last August/September. The eye is there and won’t go away. Just a question of the power…
MB for LF in 2010!
That would make him one of the top 30 hitters in the league.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I would suggest he is one of the top 30 hitters in the NL as we type.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Are we still talking about Daric Barton?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Daric Barton plus Brian Barton might be a top 30 hitter in the NL.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
we have the technology
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
We done with Adam Molina yet?
needs to happen :)
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
it's funny that this is actually an old meme
something about zombie Cardinals, and which arms and legs would work
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I wasn't.
I misread above.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I read the "over 120 PAs in August/September"
as I was scrolling and my thought shifted to Holliday (because it was a new comment from my last visit). I believe Holliday to be a top 30 batsman.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think that's a bit high
I think he’s a .290/.370/.440 type of guy, especially in Oakland. He’s just not going to hit a lot of homers playing in the Coliseum for 81 games a year.
That’s still pretty valuable, just not Todd Helton numbers.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
And Casey Blake's line is not a top 30 hitter in the NL.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Agreed
I’m just not sure his power is ever going to develop. I think his OBP could be better than that, but he really hasn’t shown that yet either.
Sadly, I think this is Brett Wallace’s future as well. He’s going to be a light-hitting first baseman with good OBP rather than a top 5 third baseman.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
in all honesty
if matt holliday goes to baltimore after we offered him what we have. well, he can enjoy losing for the next five years.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 17, 2009 10:38 AM EST reply actions
what was the actual offer (from the cards)
I’ve seen this and that, but not sure if I’ve ever seen the the confirmed real numbers
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
i haven't seen confimed real numbers anywhere i guess
i’ve assumed the cardinals standing offer this whole time has been 5/90 or something alone those lines, though 8/128 has also been reported.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 17, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
the most i've heard is 5/80-90
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 17, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
8 years @ roughly $16 each
Here’s a link to the article from stlcardinals.com:
UNICORNS
That’s what the newspaper reported on Monday, saying general manager John Mozeliak “tweaked” his previous standing offer to the Type A free agent, from an unknown figure that was tendered Wednesday to easily the most lucrative deal ever offered by the Cardinals.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
old news
it’s since come out that the cards are sticking to 5 year offer
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
5-years plus options.
So, 5 years guaranteed.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
where was that stated?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
5 years with options makes sense to me
i really think it was a 5 year offer with 3 options.
strauss says 8 years and $16 per which i’m sure came from a source inside the FO trying to show they were doing their best to sign him.
then buster says its only 5 years which i’m sure came from boras trying to show that the cards offer wasn’t that great to make other teams interested.
plus there was a tidbit about wanting more guaranteed money lending credibility to the 5 years with 3 options.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
5 years with 2 or 3 vesting options would be fine IMO
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 18, 2009 6:30 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be more worried about NYM
if they don’t land bay…according to si.com they are re-entering that bid for Holliday…and NEVER count out the yanks…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/16/mets.bay.holliday/index.html
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
I'm more worried about NYY
It sounds like they are going to sign Nick Johnson as their DH (probably pretty cheap), and let Damon walk. If Damon (and his $13M) are out the door, do you think the Yankees . . . the New York fucking Yankees . . . are going to let Melky F. Cabrera stand in the way of a Matt Holliday signing?
Is Holliday worth it?
Good post over at BtB by Steve from Play a Hard Nine.
He looks at Damon, Bay, and Holliday based on rumored offer and comes up with a probability of a break even point for those contracts due to perfect health or injury.
It’s really a fascinating read, and his conclusions are interesting to say the least.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
the trick of it is
if they sign him
and that convinces Pujols to stay…
Legoman is worth his weight in gold brick.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Pujols's contract will be worth its weight in gold brick.
I don’t buy for a second that extending Pujols depends on re-signing Holliday. Money talks and Pujols will listen to DeWitt’s.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I didn't say it would depend on that solely
Albert has said, again and again, that it will depend on the moves the Cards make to win it all.
whether or not that turns out to be true, it would be dumb to ignore that opening.
besides, if we think Albert’s agents aren’t watching these negotiations with great interest, we’re as naive as Clobby Razzerton.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
They are giggling and looking at islands to buy in the south Pacific.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Albert already gave them one
each. because he likes them, and AJ approves of their marketing approach.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
if we are truly offering Holliday 8/128 or 5/90
and he doesn’t take it, Pujols shouldn’t blame mgmt, because that’s a freaking good offer. if he really cares about the direction of the team then he needs to realize that overpaying for Holliday hurts more than it helps.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
oh yes
I think we could still come out ahead in the Please Albert Don’t Hurt Us department. as a show of skill, and a dress rehearsal, this whole ordeal has its uses.
of course, 162 games may trump any other maneuvers, one way or another.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
but did anyone here actually expect him to have a 80% shot at breaking even on a 8Y$128M contract? That’s pretty incredible if you think about it. Even with pessimistic defensive projections, he’s still likely to have surplus value 30%-50% of the time.
He’s addressed most of the concerns that we’ve had here in this article and displayed it graphically. It’s pretty clear that he’s better than just about every other option out there this year AND next year, even at that price.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I didn't.
But that’s only because I don’t trust Holliday’s UZR all that much after watching him close to every game for a couple of months. He doesn’t look like he is that good afield and I fear that this projections underrates him falling off a cliff defensively as he ages. The question this generates is: Why on earth wouldn’t an AL club be in on him for a long-term deal? If this is the breakdown with defense included, having the DH slot to protect you against a defensive decline makes him a wonderful signing.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I was surprised that the
pessimistic defensive projection had him having at least a 20% shot at surplus value. I didn’t think that he’d be able to have surplus value with shitty defense. Just shows you how good his bat projects to be over the next 8 years.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
because Oakland?
then everyone overlooked how he improved his swing while still there.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
I think that's a fascinating study, but. . .
I don’t know that it really changes my opinion all that much. FWIW, I am on record here as saying I don’t mind the 8 year, $128M contract, but that I am a nervous nellie about it.
And the reason that I am a nervous nellie has little to do with the surplus value over the life of the contract, and a lot to do with the the shape of that surplus value. If Holliday returns $20M in surplus value over the first two years of the contract, no surplus value over the next two, and $19.99M in negative value over the last 4, that’s a problem. Ideally the Cards aren’t negotiating binarily, i.e. the choices are Holliday at 8/$128 or no Holliday.
For that matter, I’m not sure that a 30%-50% chance of getting surplus value (and note, it’s ANY surplus value) is all that great a proposition. Sure, it’s better than the strawman Johnny Damon three year deal (which ain’t happening, unless Omar Minaya is involved) and better than the almost strawman Jason Bay five-year deal (again, 5 years for Bay almost by necessity requires Omar Minaya).
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Your last paragraph
is really the whole point of the exercise. Those are best options left for left fielders, and Holliday is a much better option than either of the other two.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Close. . .
Holliday is the best option for those three LFs. . . at the prices that have been rumored for those three LFs. But I didn’t necessarily need to see a graph that took hours to construct to know that.
But that’s not saying that he’s necessarily a good option at that rumored 8/$128M contract. And that’s not saying that he’s the best option to return value in LF over the course of the contract of the Cardinals’ next LF.
I appreciate the work that went into the graph, but I dispute that Holliday is anywhere near a 4 out of 5 bet to return surplus value over the course of a 8/$128M contract, and I dispute whether, even, if true, that is a good signing.
All of that being said, the graph is a great discussion starter, and the Lichtmann study on aging on which it relies (which I had never read before) is also fascinating, particularly the different aging curves for different eras.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
is Crawford available next year?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
how does he compare to Holliday?
both performance wise and financially
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Holliday is clearly the better hitter and overall, the better player.
Here’s a graph of their wOBA’s. Holliday’s career wOBA is .400, Crawford’s is .367.
Per UZR, Crawford is the better defender by a little more than half a win per 150 games in LF. He’s also 18 months younger right now, but will be essentially the same age when he hits free agency next year.
Crawford’s only season above 5 WAR was this year, he had a career year at the plate and was a 1.5 win player on defense alone. Holliday’s bat has been worth about 5 wins a year (yes, even last year), so with his bat alone he’s a better player than Crawford is.
I don’t think Crawford is going to be getting similar dollars as Holliday, but then again, some people really like the idea of a 60-70 SB guy and he’s one of the few in the league that can do that. I would guess he’ll get a 5-6 year deal in the neighborhood of $80-90M next season from someone, providing he has a good year this year. I would much rather pay Holliday that money than Crawford, who derives a lot of his value from his defense.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i still don't trust Lego to keep preforming at the level he has been
my gut says Crawford is the better bet to not only keep preforming, but actually get better
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
we've got a better chance landing Matt than Carl
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
probably, but i'd still rather have Carl
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Holliday's...
skillset projects a lot better into the future than does Crawford’s. I love Carl Crawford but have considered it best to temper any desire to see him in red and white since that offseason a couple years back where he talked about how tired he is all the time. If his legs go, his value just took a huge hit.
by mynameistyler on Dec 17, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
OTOH
Crawford’s body type tends to age better than Holliday’s, as Holliday outweighs him by 20 pounds or so, according to Fangraphs.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
But Holliday's skills
age much better than Crawford’s do. Holliday draws a lot of walks and hits for power. Crawford legs out a lot of doubles and triples while stealing a lot of bases, doesn’t walk much, and doesn’t hit very many homers.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
righties hit dingers
Crawford is a lefty. Us lefties jack dongs, thankyouverymuch.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
You would be a lefty
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 17, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
what the hell is that supposed to mean?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
DON'T TELL ME WHAT I KNOW!
I am all things lefty though, except for when I am a righty.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i'm am all things awesome
except when i’m not
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Well, I don't trust your gut...
Players like Crawford don’t age well, and he’s had some injury problems with his legs already. He doesn’t hit for power, and his walk rate is pretty horrible — for his career he walks in only 5.3% of his PA’s. Holliday is about double that. He’s shown some modest improvement in this area, but not as much as someone like Chone Figgins has.
Holliday is clearly the better offensive player. He could regress to a 4 WAR player with the bat and still probably be more valuable than Crawford will be in 4 years. I don’t see how you can project Crawford to “improve” when he’s only a year and a half younger and hasn’t shown major improvement in any metric over his whole career.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
old and young players' skills
has there been recent research on this? I’m always reminded of james’s supposition that players with young players’ skills like speed and defense age better than the sluggers, but I’m never, uh, reminded of his research, only the idea.
I know that walk rates have been.
Most players with good plate discipline don’t just lose it at age 34 or 35.
I would guess that speed and defense probably age pretty well, but even elite defenders are only worth about 2 wins over the course of a season, while elite offensive players, like Holliday, can be worth as much as 5 or 6 wins with their bat alone.
I do think, as this is my own personal observation, that players who are overly reliant on their speed (like Crawford) can be more risky because leg injuries can limit the only thing that they can really do well. It’s not like he can reinvent himself as a high walk rate slugger who hits .320, and his slugging is extremely reliant on his ability to leg out doubles and triples. In 7 full seasons he’s hit only 83 homers.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Don't get me wrong
I really like Carl Crawford, but if I could pick between him and Holliday, I’ll take Matt Holliday every time. There’s not even a question about it.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Lego's defense is so freaking overrated it's not even funny
any one who watched the second half of the season would agree, and i’m not even talking about the nut shot because i honestly believe that was a fluke play.
yes he’s a better offensive producer right now, but will he be in 3 or 4 seasons? no way, unless like you & tyler mentioned Crawfords legs give out. when Lego’s 34-35 his production will fall off a cliff. he’ll still be drawing walks, but the HR & doubles power will be gone. players don’t age well anymore now that PED’s are out of the game.
i guess a big reason i’m so big on Crawford is because he reminds me so much of Willie McGee. i could be totally wrong about him, but if i had to pay $100+Million to him or Lego, i’d give it to Crawford.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Small Sample Size?
UZR agrees that Holliday was below average in the second half
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
He really did look awkward out there for what it's worth
Before the nut shot even.
Not afraid to nitpick
the name chris duncan was actually invoked a few times
it wasn’t just the second half he of last year too, he’s always been very overrated
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I guess maybe he is over rated
But I think him as about an avg left fielder
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
aren't all LF's poor fielders?
i thought 4stick, viva or you showed us in the summer there really aren’t any good LF’s in MLB?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Left fielders are poor relative to other positions
Meaning an average LF isn’t as good as an average CF.
You can still be above average for LF. Some guys are so good in left, that they’d be above average in center – Crawford, Chavez,
by vivaelpujols on Dec 18, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing against you
but I’m tired of the assertion that because there aren’t PED’s in the game anymore that players “won’t age well”.. I think that’s garbage. We’ve learned so much about physiology and nutrition in the past 25 years that players are still going to be able to play longer than they have in the past. Jim Thome is still hitting homers at his age, and he can’t even bend over to field 1B anymore.
If anything, it’s the guys who were on PED’s when they were younger that are burning out earlier, because it took a toll on their bodies, and the players who take care of themselves and are always in peak physical condition should still be able to play for quite a long time at an effective level.
I also hate the fact that people use UZR when it suits their purposes, but then state that players that UZR has always rated above average are “overrated” and that UZR can’t be counted on because it has “noise”. How do you determine that? He was bad last year in Busch for two months, and because of that sample size he’s “overrated”?
I’d be willing to bet that Holliday is a better player at age 34 than Carl Crawford, and if you’re giving Carl Crawford a $100M contract you’re going to get lumped in with Brian Sabean in a few years as one of the GM’s that doesn’t “get it”.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i'm not offended, i'm well aware my arguments have holes
it’s true they’ve learned so much about the human body & how to take care of it. but even without PED’s helping them players are still going to start to naturally decline in their mid 30’s. you can’t stop that anymore no matter how healthy you are & how often you do the right things to & for your body.
i also try to not use UZR or any stat just to prove my point & then bash it to prove someone else’s point wrong. i know you can’t have it both ways, and i’m not trying to. that’s why i never specifically quoted it because i think Matt has always been overrated & that includes his UZR’s & any other stat that shows he’s a + LF’er.
i only used the $100Mil number because it’s been thrown about recently that next year Crawford will get it from someone, probably the Yankee’s. Matt’s trying to get that now & at this moment it looks like he’s having a hard time finding a team willing to pay that. you very well maybe right that Crawford won’t be as good as Matt will be in 4 or 5 seasons. but if Crawford can stay healthy i don’t so. i have a bad feeling about Matt, there’s just something about him i don’t trust. it’s a weak argument i know, but it’s all i have.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
You got to understand
That just that Holliday is a plus OF by UZR standards doesn’t mean he is a good fielder. Just a good fielder compared to his peers in LF that year.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
His LF peers in 2009 included,
Endy Chavez, Randy Winn, Nyjer Morgan, David Dejesus, Denard Span, Carl Crawford all ++ defenders who played at least a few hundred innings in LF.
The idea that a guy can be rated a good defender in LF because his competition is bad doesn’t hold water- against this same field, Adam Dunn put up a UZR/150 of -38.2!
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I am beginning to think UZR is flawed
in the way it handles LF just as much as it is in regards to Catchers, if that is the case.
Okay, I think I had a reading comprehension fail there. A fast glance at fangraphs shows that while all of those you listed are indeed LFers, UZR does tend to like most of them more than it does Matt Holliday. And well it should, a few of those guys are decent CFers. Trying to picture MH in CF makes me wanna take a shot to my nuts.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 18, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
They're your positions, and I'm not trying to argue your opinion.
I’m just trying to point out that fairly empirical evidence states that Holliday is a much better player and will continue to be in the near future.
I used to think that Frank Thomas was one of the more overrated players in my lifetime, simply due to the fact that his superstar status prevented pitchers from pitching him inside because he was such a big fucking whiner about getting hit by pitches and umps would baby him.
Then I started looking at him sabermetrically, and……..holy shit that guy is one of the better hitters over an 8 year stretch in the history of baseball. Now, I still believe the above paragraph is true, but you have to give a guy his due, lol.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i think this is what keps me from totally turning into a "saber nerd"
my feelings get in the way & i can be irrational about guys. i know Matt’s a good, probably even a great player. but i can’t make myself believe he’s worth the money he’s about to be paid by someone
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Yeah, after taking a close look at Carl Crawford, I've decided he's a very good player...
and that I really hope we sign Holliday.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Crawford's lack of discipline is the real clincher for me
if he was a 10-12% BB guy, I feel he’d age pretty well, but at his walkrate, he’s really going to struggle to put up much more than an average OBP once he starts to slow down a bit.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 18, 2009 6:34 AM EST up reply actions
it's an intriiiiguing bit of speculation
to see what McGwire could do with him, though. if he really isn’t preaching dingers.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
maybe i misunderstood, but i thought the holliday
Estimates were on the more reasonable 5/$80m deal. I was having trouble determining which was which. The first graph was his value with a normal aging curve and the other was with a steeper aging curve, right?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Dec 17, 2009 1:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I read it as the contract was based on a 5/80M contract.
One where he has perfect health = PH for 5 year and the other were he is injured some point during the 5 years – INJ. 5/$80M though will never happen for Holliday. 5/$90M seems like the low end now.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
The graphs are for 8/128,
because the break even point is around 29 WAR- 29*4.5=130. The break even point for a 5/80 deal would be around 17 or 18 WAR.
The second graph is for a steeper defensive decline.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Thanks
Looking back that makes more sense. I misread one of the Bay graphs at first
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Just FYI
The bad defense graph still started with a reasonably high baseline (my projection) and just degraded it at a higher clip than the original. And as fourstick has pointed out, I used the 8/128, and clearly the 5/80 would be better.
Thanks for the plug fourstick!!
by stevesommer05 on Dec 17, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
You made it an easy plug
by doing such great work. Are you going to be a regular contributor to BtB? I hope so, I love your stuff at PAH9.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Thanks!!
Yeah I’m going to try and post something over there about once a week
by stevesommer05 on Dec 17, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
I am definitely going to read that (and try to understand it this time)
I’ve tried some other stuff by Steve Sommers that was a little over my head at first. He should contribute to VEB. Maybe the memes would scare him away though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The key to understanding this...
is to remember:
- The x-axis (horizontal) is total WAR
- The y-axis (vertical) is the inverse percentage chance of achieving that WAR.
- The break even line is the Total WAR needed over the course of the contract for the money to break even at FA value per WAR
For example, the first graph of Holliday has his break even point at 28.5 WAR. The two lines show health status, PH for perfect health, and INJ for injury. He explains the thought process behind those at the top of the post. Where those lines cross the break even point is the probability that Holliday will break even on an 8Y$128M contract assuming perfect health or injury, based on his projected value over the 8 year period. What the first graph is saying is that, assuming perfect health, Holliday will outperform his contract 80% of the time, and will do so 50% of the time if an injury crops up that meets the injury criteria stated. That’s about the best I can explain it. Follow?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yeah, actually the comments helped too.
The Y-Axis is actually the probability that the player will be worth less than that amount of WAR over the life of the contract, right? Maybe this is a semantic point that doesn’t matter. Anyway, I got it a lot more easily this time. It’s a really cool way to visualize a contract. As he says though, you are relying on a simulation.
I am even less enthusiastic about both Bay and Damon now. Sign Holliday, MO! But don’t fire till you see the whites of their eyes and all that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The Y-Axis is actually the probability that the player will be worth less than that amount of WAR over the life of the contract, right?
Yes.
Any time you’re looking at a long term contract you’re relying on a simulation and this is about as good a simulation as you’re going to find.
I’m less enthusiastic about a three year offer for Damon, a 1 year deal for ~$10M wouldn’t be that bad though. I’m not interested in Bay at all really, unless he’s very, very cheap.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I just don't see Damon getting 3 years
I just don’t see who’ll give him that, and certainly not at 13m AAV. Maybe something like 3/25 wouldn’t be out of the question, but I still see him taking a one-year deal to go back to the Yankees. I think he’s badly misjudged the market, personally.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know that he's misjudged the market. . .
it’s not like he opted out of a long-term deal or anything (unless I missed something, which is certainly possible). I find Boras’ demands for him to be even more outlandish that Boras’ initial demands for Holliday.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the Yankees might give him that
but they are apparently interested in Nick Johnson, and that would pretty much rule out them getting Damon at any price, so I think he’ll end up having to settle for 2 years and less money (say, $20M) or 1Y$12M or something like that.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Baltimoo
Your greatest creation yet, MooCow
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 17, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I want to pick up on Nertlerb - because I like the sound - but I'm having trouble figuring out what it means.
by peach concrete on Dec 17, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Nertlerb = Awesome!
;=8)
It just sprang from my head one day, cowplete and fully-formed, like Athena springing forth from the forehead of Jove, clad in armor, carrying a shield, and wielding some serious udder action.
Now THAT’S nertlerb!
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
MooCow, MooCow, MooCow... I am so disappointed
Not because you created Nertlerb, it’s a perfectly fromulent word. Rather, you mention “Athena” being birthed by “Jove” when we all know that Jove is merely a nickname for Jupiter, which is the Roman name for Zeus. Athena being the Greek version, it hardly makes sense to refer to her father by his Roman name, does it?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i think the cow is trying to force a meme on us
kind of Adam Dunn of him.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i'm not picking up what the cows dropping down
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
welfare mothers
make better lovers.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry...
…but I, Claudius has warped my sense of the classical mythologies.
BTW, isn’t it kind of kewl that a god can have a nick-name?
Yo, Big G, how are they hangin’?
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Actually,
Jove is perfectly acceptable. Jupiter is a conjunction of the common latin phrase jovus pater, meaning father jove. You are, however, correct in that Athena sprang formed from Zeus’s head. However, the Romans freely copied much of their divine notions from the Greeks, Etruscans, heck, pretty much whomever they thought would bring them the luck they needed for some serious butt kicking.
It's cool how the roots of the different names are all related.
Anyway, I would have accepted Minerva springing fully-formed from the head of Jove or Jupiter, but I’m afraid Athena calls for Zeus. It has been decided!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
And I meant to also say
Isn’t the origin of Jove still Latin, no matter what? Also, the Etruscans were pretty interesting.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It'd be cool if they actual knew anything about the cult of Mithras
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Wow.
Some of his numbers seem optimistic, but he’s also measuring against the highest speculated contract offer and still getting a damn good result.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
The pessimistic defensive chart
really kinda made up my mind, since that’s really the question for me. I think his bat is going to hover around .400 wOBA for a good portion of that contract, due to his contact and walk rates, it’s his defense falling off a cliff that I’m worried about, and he kinda covered that there.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Now I would really like to get Matt Holliday.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
what's your pie specialty
we should divide up the work
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I only make gooey butter cakes.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
in st. louis, the man with the gooey butter cakes is king
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly thought they were optimistic too...
I did the Holliday stuff first just for a piece at PAH9, and was thinking that the model was going to end up being an overly optimistic model that needed to be tuned down. Then I got the BtB invite and added the other guys, and wondered if it was overly pessimistic… That’s basically why I tinkered a little with some assumptions and tried to show a couple extra graphs per player. The big one that I didn’t do would be to start Holliday with a neutral UZR and see what happens. If that’s the case the deal probably falls apart.
by stevesommer05 on Dec 17, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking of three numbers specifically:
Playing time/injuries (though on second look it seems fine).
Defense (the second graph takes care of this).
And your WAR valuation (you used 4.5M, correct? I’m not sure how I would adjust it, though I
might consider adjusting it down for 2010 and then having it creep up by .5M per season.
Anyway, I think the use of the 8/128 number gives you plenty of room to work with.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
So was the Holliday graph based upon 5 or 8 years?
I think it is only 5 years which would make sense why the graph looks so good. A 5 year/$80M contract is below what I thought the max should be.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
It's 8/128
The break-even point is just below 29 WAR in eight years. The break even point for a 5/80 deal is 18ish WAR.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
The graphs were poorly labeled, IMO.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that they were
I was in somewhat of a rush to get it published last night, and missed on axis labels….
by stevesommer05 on Dec 17, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
labels schmabels, steve, it was a good piece. really well done.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
thanks
It shouldn’t be as hard to understand as I made it though. Eh, I’ll chalk it up to rookie jitters :)
by stevesommer05 on Dec 17, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don't mean to take away from the information there.
It’s great. Far, far better than my pieces comparing Holliday to Lee and Soriano and then to his top 10 Similars. I greatly enjoyed it. And, as someone who just figured out how to do SBN graphs, thanks to Flim, and to post Google doc graphs, thanks to Bracken, I understand where you are coming from. Now, keep these good analyses coming, Steve!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Excellent piece, Steve. . .
I can only hope that my maiden piece, if I ever get around to writing it (pre-emptive TWSS defense there) is as good.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I have so many half written articles I need to finish
I am good at starting articles but not finish them.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Amen to that
I’m a little ADD with ideas though… I flutter between pitch f/x to simulation to different graph ideas to defensive projections… and I’ve finished what 2 or 3 substantive articles on any of them in the past 2-3 months.. ugh. Hopefully writing for BtB will get me a little more focused
by stevesommer05 on Dec 17, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
::Looks around::
If we get him for 5Y$80M that’s a STEAL.
Shhhhhh, don’t tell anyone.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
This. . .
is a statement with which I can wholeheartedly, if somewhat furtively, agree.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Seems to me that 6/100 would be a pretty damn good deal as well.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Yes
And probably more realistic.
A 6Y$100M deal with an opt-out after 4Y and a salary structure like this:
- $14M
- $14M
- $16M
- $16M
- $20M
- $20M
or something similar would be perfect. In other words, backload the last two years to really give him something to think about at age 33.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
He'll end up having this weird conversation with his own reflection on the side of the Arch.
“Matt, lots of guys like us have E.D. I mean, I can think of at least three in the clubhouse alone. Are you going to ask Dr. Paletta about it this time or what?”
“OK Matt, you’re right… let’s do it!”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
his reflection's head would be HUGE
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'd like that deal a lot more if the $ amounts were flipped going the other way
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Why?
We get him way below market value for the first four years, then he can opt out if he wants or we have him at probably market value for the next two years and say bye-bye at age 35. What’s not to like?
If you reverse it, he’s guaranteed to opt out. Even if he’s injured. If we pay him less now, that’s more we can spend on 3B and another starter and more room on the payroll for our arb guys to grow into.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Which would cost the Cardinals more money
If you properly adjusted the numbers for the NPV to work out, then yeah given our current situation, shifting the value to 2010 would be the way to go……..but it’s a pissing contest amongst players for who got the biggest contract, not who got the highest NPV.
Not afraid to nitpick
haha
we’re going to have this conversation so many times
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
yes we are, but what else do we have to do?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
clean the bathroom?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
don't mind if i do!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
just make sure the curtins are closed this time
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Good lord...
Take-away lesson for the day: When wifey roars away in a huff, let her go.
MB for LF in 2010!
do we know if he was threatening her while she was driving?
because now that I think about it, having an angry football player on my pickup is probably gonna cause me to do some defensive driving too…
a waste, all around.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Just lock the sliding window...
and hit the washer fluid. No need to whip around like a maniac.
MB for LF in 2010!
I doubt she would have to whip around like a maniac
last time I checked a physics textbook, low speed + ground + skull = bad.
what I mean to say… the real question is why didn’t she just stop. angry dudes can smash windows in, last I checked.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
no kiddin
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Goold's All-Aughts Team: 3B
This poll is pretty heartening.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well, when your biggest competition is Placido Polanco,
that’ll happen.
Not to knock Placido, of course…he’s done a darn fine job of putting together a very respectable career with his level of talent. But when you have a third baseman who covers so much range, he makes David Eckstein look like an excellent shortstop…well, there’s your debate-ender right there.
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
grit!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think any of us wanted to see that
discussion is above, btw.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Centiquid speaks!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Does this mean
I’m finally free to indulge in my lifelong dream of imagining Dave Duncan as Dr. Bunsen Honeydew, performing experiments on Penny, some of which may go awry, but in hilarious ways?
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
by splhcb67 on Dec 17, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dr. Honeydew had fewer wrinkles
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Too Funny.
After yesterday’s “Beckett’s wife and Limo clause”,
The deal also includes a suite on the road
* is an Asshat
does anyone know what penny needs to do this year to become a type A
does he have to have a lights out season, or just a moderately good one?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
is that your opinion
or do you know that…i agree that if he has a cy young type year, i’m ok with not offering him arby, but does he need that to get type A status
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
huh...?
I’d still be upset. The whole point is that if he is that good, we don’t have a good chance of re-signing him anyway and it would be the perfect opportunity to swap him for some draft picks.
i think the point is this:
if a moderately successful season gets him type A, then for our sake, a cy young type season would be better…we probably won’t sign him long term either way, so if he can have an ok season and get type a, we’d rather have a cy season
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
he needs to have a cy young calibre year to be a type A
it’s almost impossible.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 17, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
so you're saying
pixie dust
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I suggest
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 17, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
what?
joel is a type A – not a cy young by any measure.
if we got a season out of penny like joel’s (more K’s, a little higher ERA), then he’d probably get Type A status. I’d be interested in a fanpost (i suck at this kind of stuff) that shows what Penny would need to do to a) just barely get Type A status, and b) barely surpass the $9.5 mill he’s owed this year. This would show what he would need to do for it to be logical for him to not want arby and try the FA market (but he couldn’t because the first round draft pick would make teams shy away…) – wouldn’t it?
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
i need to pay attention more
i was asking myself in the back of my head how joel was a type a but harden was a type b…
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
lol
yes. I was just about to say that. Like I say, Penny needs to pitch like Lincecum next year to hit type A.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 18, 2009 6:36 AM EST up reply actions
...high?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i looked around for his Elias Ranking
I could not find it
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Last I heard,
He wasn’t even a type B last year, and the rankings are based off of 2 years, so he would have to have a phenomenal year to reach type A status.
* is an Asshat
LUGGAGE
Regardless of the he-said, he-said byplay, such antics are foreign to the tone set for the Cardinals rotation by Chris Carpenter.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i think every news player should get luggaged for hello and welcome
just as a prophylactic so they know what’s up in our clubhouse
i think he already was
next lines, bold mine
Asked if Penny’s reputed personality was a factor for the Cardinals, general manager John Mozeliak said: “We liked it.”
“It’s no secret, our starters, they work,” La Russa said. “They work a lot between starts. They work together. I think Brad has experienced some of that, and I think he’s going to fit.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
damn it, SBN!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Oriole Expectations
Per “The Schmuch Stops Here” blog at the Baltimore Sun:
First Mike Gonzalez, then Garrett Atkins, and now Matt Holliday? Foxsports.com reported early this morning that the Orioles have "jumped into the bidding" for Holliday, the slugging outfielder who is regarded as the best bat on the free-agent market.
Don’t get too excited. The Orioles, according to sources, did have some discussions about Holliday with agent Scott Boras during their negotiations regarding Gonzalez. Any team would be interested in such a player, especially a club with a glaring need for a right-handed power hitter. However, the Orioles are quite realistic about their chances of landing Holliday. And privately, they have no expectations whatsoever that Holliday will be with the team next year.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
ken rosenthal is an asshat
plain and simple
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Has anyone ever seen Strauss and Rosenthal in a room at the same time?
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
Rosenthal is short enough to be an independent growth, right?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Cage Match question of the day
Dead Eyes Markakis vs. Soulsucker Jukich
vs 
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Wasn't Jukich one of the spirits that carried people away in Ghost?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 17, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
His Face is..
…smooth as a baby’s butt! A baby human, that is. Calves are quite furry.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
that's a good point
will he be able to maintain a mustache upside?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Not Sure Jukich...
…can grown his own; he may have to borrow one for a while. But not Boog’s, it wouldn;t be right.
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
proving that he IS puppykicker 2.0.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
I would call Markakis' eyes intense, not dead
Jukich, however, gives me the heebie jeebies.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
rotoworld says there's a different more legit offer
http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/6770397151
scottbullshit
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
same coast, diff team
Hearing Holliday has another legit offer beyond Cards and O’s, from an East Coast team. Boras response: “Matt has multiple offers.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That's just Boras yapping, I think
I wonder how much he makes/year.
His neighbor agreed...
to put him to work shoveling snow. Only Boras would count that as “an offer.”
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Dec 17, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
does "go fuck yourself, boras" count as an offer?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
by tom s. on Dec 17, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 15 recs
That sounds more like a proposal
But I guess Boras wouldn’t be above spinning them to be the same thing.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
i lauged, then i rec'd
that’s how you do it ladies & gents
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Holliday
As each day goes by I’m starting to think that Holliday doesn’t want to play in St. Louis. Yeah I know Boras is running the show….but if St. Louis has given a great offer and for the number of years to him and he is still looking for more….I just don’t think he is real interested in playing for the Cards and wants to play on the East Coast.
ANd to be frank….as each day goes by I am starting to to not want Holliday in a Cards uniform. Sure he deserves a big payday and we really need his bat in the line-up. But I am going to have a hard time rooting for him if he let’s Boras play these games with the Cards for an extra money. As this drags out it’s really starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think it’s time for Mo to give a final offer and see once and for all if Holliday is interested in playing for the Cardinals for the next 5 years or more.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I understand those thoughts.
But it’s business. I don’t see any difference between today and a week from now in the grand scheme of things. If we don’t have Holliday, I don’t see the Cardinals making a play for any other FA LFer.
Also, I clicked on your profile pic so I know it’s that chick from Chuck. But all tiny like that, it looks like a blond Carrot Top.
Now with extra feisty!
This is what I expected would happen.
However, I didn’t think that my expectations for us to actually sign Holliday would get so high. I legitimately thought we were going to do it a couple of days ago and was in a pretty good mood, especially with the language surrounding the 8-year length (it sounded like option years) and the possibility of an opt-out. With those details, I thought a deal was really coming together, especially because Boras hasn’t stated through the press that they rejected the Cardinals’ offer. Last night, I brought up Nady’s Baseball-Reference and Fangraphs pages, as well as Floppy’s, trying to gauge our 2010 lineup with them bookended Pujols in the lineup.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I have a feeling we will go after Nady or DeRosa
if Matt goes to the highest bidder.
A week from now some of out “Plan B” players could be signed with other teams.
I just get the feeling that Matt isn’t too thrilled to play in St. Louis. Maybe he didn’t gel with Tony or Albert?
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I agree it's getting kind of annoying
we were supposed to have some definitive answer by Sunday…then early this week…now who knows when. Frankly, I’m getting kind of sick of talking about it ::emphatically x’es out of VEB, slams computer shut, then runs back and reopens VEB, cradles computer to bare chest::
you could always talk about Colby
or Freese
or Strauss
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I also think
as with Lohse (oh look who his agent is!)
there is extreme domestic pressure on Matty Holls to pick a city and stick with it. that means things like no-trade clauses. he’s up to three kids, incl a playmate for Rylee, so it may not have much to do with what team he likes, but the flavor of the contract. that 4 Nights in July article had his young boys living a nomadic life through airport terminals and hotel rooms, and being used to it.
hence picking a guy like Boras to be his agent.
Lohse also had a new kid (or maybe it was on the way) when he signed his contract.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
DeRosa also has a new kid
he’s also overpricing himself.
…is his a daughter? damn, I hope they don’t turn into a fake girl band.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
post-election sex is my theory
a whole bunch of my acquaintances also reappeared with babies. good thing they know i’m too broke to get them shower gifts or whatever they call them.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
they're good. most of my friends are smarter than Rasmus
…well. most of them.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
rasmus is not married though, right?
so it’s some random chick?
hope dero’s wife didn’t get less hot because she had a kid, it’d be a shame
ask CGirl
her sources say it’s a long term gf. ex-gf.
nah, they have lots of pies in Atlanta.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
well apparently not
if they were as long term as CGirl says they were, and they were, as they say, sexually active.
if she’s really an ex, I almost wonder if this was a desperation move on her part.
but that’s based on a ton of speculation. what is not in doubt is they named her “Rylee”.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
maybe she just forgot to take the pill?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
yeah, like I said
desperation move
but again, we don’t know any of this. I don’t even know who it is. just if it is an ex-girlfriend, that’s where my mind jumps to.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
he's the last man standing, isn't he?
even crazy Motte has a long-term girlfriend.
and he doesn’t have kids because he was talking about them in future tense in some of the late season / postseason interviews.
my guess is he’ll hook up before Dinger Camp is even over.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
heh, don't tell andi
where’d you find it?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
uh, andi has a thing for boog? (andi's a girl?)
i don’t know some random thing in the internetS – long time gf in LA, engaged, supposed to be real pretty.
Andi with an I usually means girl, in my experience.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
really? where are you from?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
well, andi does have a CLH
common law husband
last time she told us, anyway.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
hell, a few of us guys here have a thing for Boog
there is nothing wrong with that
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
d-dee, just realized it can't be true
or if it is, that’s a get-back-together thing also
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/bird-land/2009/06/dgs-1010-being-feeding-brendan-ryan/
man, Goold is a nice guy but he’s such a stalker. number one man-crush on Boog, too.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Boog is not getting married
if he is, he’s about as faithful to her & Tiger was to his wife
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
geez, gdm
we all know he’s distracted by shiny things, you don’t have to rub it in.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
shiny plastic things
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
you speaking from personal experience
or are you saying he likes those kind of toys?
either way, uh. yeah.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
sadly yes to both
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i was hoping you wouldn't answer
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
why didn't you say it was rhetorical?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
actually they've said before
that he isn’t. it upsets his stomach. dunno if they decided on a treatment this year.
it’s not uncommon to treat chem. imbalances with lots of exercise, though. that’s why Phelps started swimming, for instance.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
^help treat
probably not the only thing to do.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i think he used to take something
for his ADD, but i don’t know if he does anymore.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
you still have a shot, don't worry
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
she'll have to cut everyone in the way
maybe even burn them
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
infield?
no matter, see above. it’s less than likely to be true.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i think we collectively have a serious case
of Boogdrawal
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
wait, wait, no...
Brad Penny still with Eliza Dushku? no they’re not… broke up in February (thank you internet full of miscellaneous personal info.)
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i can't believe she's dating rick fox
WTF?
my reporter buddy has a great story about Penny & Alyssa Milano when they were dating. i’ll have to tell you all it some time
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
maybe they like his equipment.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i'm guessing for his bank account
plus she went through her baseball player/pitcher faze & he was there in LA, local, not at all very smart & would do whatever she told him to do
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i can see them having the make up love
and forgetting to take the proper precautions. plus the pill isn’t 100% full proof. maybe Rapstar’s boys are really, really good at their job?
i don’t know anything about this girl, which is why i’m not jumping to my normal conclusions that mirror yours. i’m actually surprising myself because i always think the worst of people.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
It apparently happens.
I don’t understand why. It seems strange to me.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
one more for the road
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
if i had that kinda money
i’d double bag
especially with an ex (if she gets me drunk enough to even consider)
I used to always double bag
But now I just bring my own cloth bags to the grocery store
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well done
A rec for you
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 17, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Whoah
How did I not know about this?
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
i don't know, her pic was posted here a ton over the summer
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
no, pics of wives not posted anymore
it’s your duty to check google images yourselves
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
yeah that's because her pic was posted a bunch
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I'd still take her if she were free
she thought Carp’s tattoo was a cool idea.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Luddy's wife is actually pretty underwhelming looks wise
at least i think so. i’d never tell him that though. you never tell a fella you think his gf/wife isn’t hot.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Majority of baseball players cheat on their wives anyhow
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
sad but true fact, for all athletes
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
ummmm
d-dee pujols
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 17, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but they live here
I think she might mean the commuting ones.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
damn beat me to it
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Because he's adorable.
And how he’s treating his new baby is so sweet and cute!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I like goofy looking guys.
It’s well documented.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
oh there's a good question
we know who gdm would pick
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i'm not the only one damnit!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
you brought it up
no one even baited you
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i'm so f'in weak
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
it's probably in a long thread... let's see
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/12/7/1188986/two-free-agents#26750010
i want to have his babies
HFS®!! did i say that out loud again????
by gdm426 on Dec 7, 2009 4:42 PM CST on Two Free Agents
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
andi's at the front of said line
i’m not going to fight you ladies for him
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
maybe there's no sleeping around
maybe it’s just luggaging.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Sorry for my ignorance
Who is she?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 17, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
judging by the url, mrs. derosa
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Yeah
I jfgi and found out
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 17, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Guys, remind me
to thank my wife for not getting less hot after having a kid.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
what election?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
You know. . .
the one where Dan Haren was. . .
Oh, crap.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
It was because so many people were "in the mood" that night
from the broadcast sexual powers of Joe Biden.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
oh that election
that really made people bump uglies?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I remember it mostly as something that people were predicting would happen
I don’t buy it yet. Not enough evidence.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
it happened
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 17, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Nicely done.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Dec 17, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
They already had a daughter.
I don’t know if the new one is a daughter.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
The internet.
I just typed in Colby Rasmus baby. I don’t really know if it’s true at all. That’s just what the people on the Colby Rasmus girlfriend forum said.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
sorry, there's a colby rasmus gf forum?
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
HFS
®
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
There's one for every baseball player.
It was previously empty, then he had a kid…
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
clearly you have never had google suggest anything to you, ever.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
HASHAHAHA
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
COLBY RASMUS GIRLFRIEND FORUM
ALTRUISM WE HAVE ARRIVED
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
He’s the ketchup to my fries….. ahhh
Wasn’t he hanging out with joel paneiro with two chicks at their hotel …..the westin…in pittsburg? I thought j was married
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Colby and Joel
There’s a buddy pair I wouldn’t have imagined
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 17, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
you guys know Jo-El planted a kiss on Todd Wellemeyer in Kansas City, right?
kiss cam
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I've seen some hilarious things on the kiss cam in Kansas City.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
they like to play up the moran thing
they really hate the Cards more than vice versa
maybe it was that Missing Albert thing.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I always go for Indians games.
I saw a guy jump over a girl to kiss the guy who was on the kiss cam with her. And some other guy was dancing to the music and had no idea he was on the kiss cam.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
they do a lot of dancing, too.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
dude... like she said above
every player has the same forum.
every last one of them. try google, it’ll give you suggested links for them
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
no joe thurston girlfriend forum
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
the bear shut it down
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Try again:
http://www.talk-sports.net/mlb/girlfriend.aspx/Joe_Thurston
It’s just empty.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
posted about 20 minutes ago
on espn rumor mill
However, sources say the Orioles, who’ve been active this week, were not comfortable with the financial parameters that the outfielder is seeking. The team’s involvement in the Holliday talks fell dormant a couple of weeks ago, and there is little expectation within the organization that they will re-ignite.
doesn’t look like the baltimore thing is even a recent thing and died off a while ago. boras grasping at straws
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Indeed
I honestly think he’s stalling right now, telling Matt that a better offer will materialize (presumably from the Mets or Yankees). But so far, one hasn’t. Now, we know Boras has no problem waiting all off-season to squeeze out every last penny, the question is whether Holliday will go along with his stall tactics.
I wonder how long Mo/Cards will go along with the stall tactics.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
i dunno about holliday
but i don’t think mo will. he’s said as much
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
One thing I have gotten out of all of this
is that Boras really doesn’t seem to have much respect for the Cardinals organization. I have to wonder what DeWitt thinks of Boras.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Ehh...
Boras is just doing his job. I don’t think he’s disrespecting the Cardinals.
Now with extra feisty!
an interesting question is whether boras is harming holliday's case by overselling these "ties" to holliday.
both the mets’ and orioles’ interest were pretty quickly debunked. if interest is so weak that these are the best he’s got, leaking baseless rumors might be worse than saying nothing.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
I agree with you there.
Ultimately, I think the Yankees get involved. Perhaps they’re waiting to see if A-Gon ends up in Boston.
Now with extra feisty!
Seriously when it leaked the Orioles were interested
I just laughed. They have so much young outfield depth. It would make zero sense for them. It seems to me nothing more than mis-information. The Yankees though are not to be trusted. If you look at the Tiexiera dealings from last year. They were not even involved and than the next day they signed him. It literally happened that fast.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Because they don't need to be "in it"
They can jump in and say “what’s the best offer you have, we’ll do a lot better” and it’s game over.
Not afraid to nitpick
honestly I just want the Holliday issue settled one way or another
I just don’t want to stuck playing musical chair than come Feb we are left with no chairs left in the room.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
NEW ARTICLE FROM ROSENTHAL
EVERY TEAM IN THE MAJORS IS INTERESTED IN MATT HOLLIDAY
THEY ALL FIND HIM INTERESTING
WHAT AN INTERESTING GUY YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
SOURCE: SHUT UP I DON’T NEED TO TELL YOU MY SOURCE OKAY IT’S BORAS
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
by mojowo11 on Dec 17, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
it's certainly got the grammar of a Rosenthal article.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
breaking news: it has been a while! matt holliday is doing just great; he's glad you asked
he’s meeting a ton of new, interesting people, including some very cute girls, and he doesn’t want to count his chickens before they hatch, or anything, but sources say he thinks his new life is going to be a lot of fun. so how are things back home?
Follow-up article: Matt Holliday expresses interest in signing with cute girls
Holliday’s agent, Scott Boras, said that Holliday did have “some interest” in signing with the “ton” of cute girls he’s met lately. Holliday expressed a desire not to spend any of his time counting his collection of pre-hatched eggs, leading some journalists to believe he will be seeking a deal of at least 6 years. His desire to have a lot of “fun” seems to indicate a desire to sign with one of the New York teams.
In a related story, things at home are great, and thanks for asking.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
i've heard the just doing his job
thing a lot around here but honestly he is the only agent anyone ever talks about and yet he’s not the only agent there is. so obviously there are other ways of doing the job that aren’t so asshatish.
using so many backhanded tactics through the media and making the outrageous statements that he does are just plain annoying.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
substitute "anyone who's not Boras" for "Cardinals organization"
It’s about money. That’s all. You should never have an expectation that really big money free agents will sign early unless it’s Jim Hendry who’s doing the money throwing.
Don't they have an up-and-coming CF prospect?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
had. he went to DET in the granderson deal.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
Yeah..
they got nuthin in the minors…
The depth chart is Granderson in center, Swisher and Melky on the corners, with Gardner capable of backing everyone up. And that’s it.
MB for LF in 2010!
I still think it makes a lot of sense for Damon to return on a 2 year deal
His bat plays so well in their park. It makes more sense to sign a LH hitter than a RH one.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
who wanted to see Yadi catch a knuckleballer...
once again, it’s that second pitch!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
only if So vouches for her
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
dude
that’s a chick
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
was thinking about durability
what if we paired her with Motte out of the pen? leave her out long enough to screw up everyone’s timing, then bam! Sauce Time.
It’s like trading for a second pitch without having to learn another pitch.
You know…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh yeah...
…that would definitely be nertlerb! Besides, she doesn’t throw that much softer than Mike DiFelice.
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
thank you
thought i’d be left hanging.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
you'll have to excuse him. prophetjohn's just never met one.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i so expected to see my name there yadi2
thank you
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
they are facinating creatures!
where can i find one of these, how you say, chicks?
are they native to japan?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Some people on the internet seem to believe they are
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
eri yoshida sighting!
It’s a sideshow, and the Japanese league she pitched for is already about to go under, but I love the way she pitches, not to mention the thought of a 5’1" Japanese teenage girl striking out actual baseball players with a sidearm knuckleball.
Can't All Japanese Schoolgirls...
fight with samuari swords or have furry mutant demon friends? I mean if Pedro cud have his little fellah around…
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
yeah, what are her metrics on transforming special powers?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
thunder types don't last long in the NL.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Her transformation sequence would probably be censored by MLB anyway.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
nonsense
if it were, she’d be signed already
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i first read that as
I mean if Pedro cud have his little fetish around…
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
...is there a difference?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Loved her in Kill Bill
Hire her to teach Motte the knuckler. Or the spiked ball of death, whichever.
i wanna give a shot out to flim for linking the uber sweet cool preview for firefox yesterday
this is awesome, thanks a lot man
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
And I want to say that I tried it and hated it
But that’s okay, because I’m wearing my VEB shirt today and so Flim is still a badass mofo in my book.
P.S. If you’re not gesturing yet, this will change the way you browse forever.
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
what makes that so special? i don't see the point, what am i missing?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Opening a tab or window or link or going back or forward or doing anything with the internet is a lot easier
I hate surfing without it.
Not afraid to nitpick
i'm too lazy to post at the Hot Stove post
M’s interested in Damon.
I gotta post, just for this unconfirmed rumor:
I heard from someone who works around the Mariners that after Bill Bavasi was fired in 2008, and the Mariners were searching for a new general manager, Damon actually was telling people he would be interested in the job. This person insisted that Damon seemed dead serious, even though he was still an active player.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Damon wants to be a GM?
I feel as though I’m about to be the butt of a joke or something…
We're going through a new avatar test phase here at mojowo11. Please be patient as we may try a variety of new ideas over the coming days and weeks.
it's pretty funny
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Mo, the circle of life should not go in that direction!
fake blockquote ESPN’s Jayson Stark looks at the market for recently non-tendered reliever Mike MacDougal in a Rumor Central post today. Stark says eight to ten teams are “actively pursuing” MacDougal, with the Phillies most interested. Stark names the Orioles, Pirates, Cardinals, Mets, and A’s as other suitors.
The Nationals had the worst bullpen ERA in baseball in 2009 (5.09), so their decision to non-tender MacDougal isn’t a good sign.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
but, but. . .
what if he’s tipping his pitches?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 17, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
intriiiiiguiinnggg
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
sign him up!
If Dunc can help a future hall of famer quit tipping his pitches he can help anyone!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 18, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
Baltimore will not sign Holliday
Holliday would have to be a complete fool to go to Baltimore. If he wants to go to a contender, Baltimore will not be the place for him. The only reason I think he would go would be the money (like Zito to the Giants after the now-disastrous 7 year, $126M deal), but I would be shocked to see him as an Oriole in 2010.
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
Bromance?
I read in the newspaper today that Brad Penny has apparently been eyefucking the Cardinals (Dave Duncan) for several years now.
Any concerns this thing might get weird?
what do you mean
get weird
Cardinals infielders Brendan Ryan and Mark DeRosa had just settled in Saturday for their daily “man stew” — the nickname for an afternoon dip in the hot tub — when the call came to take groundballs.
- STL Post-Dispatch
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
hahaha
This team is so hilarious. How could Matt Holliday not want to sign here?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?