Excerpt: Evaluating Baseball's Managers on Tony La Russa
A week and a half ago we did a mini-review of what Chris Jaffe's forthcoming Evaluating Baseball's Managers had to say about Cardinals managers. Now, the long-promised excerpt: a look at our very own Tony La Russa's managerial career.
Excerpt housework: the tendencies database Jaffe refers to is defined and discussed at this link; the book covers the years 1876-2008. In the interest of full disclosure, I have received no compensation or freebies on the occasion of publishing this excerpt, although I do have a copy of these exact words in .doc format.
Blog housework: Some reasoned thoughts about the Matt Holliday discussion when I'm feeling reasoned about it, or as news breaks. To be brief: I would love to have Matt Holliday, who represents the best-case scenario for the 2010 Cardinals, but if eight years—eight years! He will be 37! I will be 30! Rylee Rasmus will be eight!—and $128 million doesn't do it for him I can't imagine he'll find any welcoming market except New York.
I can't think of many players who are Ten Year guys—more than seven seems like a commitment the Cardinals should be making exclusively to players with Musial-derived nicknames.
Evaluating Baseball's Managers — Tony La Russa
by Chris Jaffe
Tony La Russa
W/L Record: 2,461-2,146 (.534)
Birnbaum Database: +1,012 runs
Individual Hitters: +240 runs
Individual Pitchers: +455 runs
Pythagenpat Difference: +138 runs
Team Offense: +297 runs
Team Defense: -118 runs
Team Characteristics: LaRussa likes the decision-making parts of the game - pinch hitters, bringing in relievers, bunting, stealing bases. However, he avoids intentional walks. His teams are pretty well rounded as they either score above average in nearly all the categories in the Birnbaum Database, or at least fare only slightly worse than a typical team.
Appropriately for someone who finished law school and passed the bar exam, LaRussa has a reputation as one of baseball's smartest managers. The Tendencies Database can test that. For example, look at one part of the job - filling out the lineup card. Thanks to Retrosheet, information on batting orders exists for all teams in the last half-century. Based on that, one can see how LaRussa fares versus other skippers.
There are three main parts of any lineup. The top two slots of the order are supposed to get on base. After them, the team's best hitters are supposed to drive them in while batting in the heart of the order, generally slots three to six. Finally, the worst hitters usually end up at the bottom of the order, where they will collect fewer plate appearances. Baseball-Reference.com makes studying these Retrosheet-generated splits much easier by providing combined offensive data for these three groups for all teams.
On base percentage is the best metric to measure top of the order hitters because their main job is to get on base. Specifically, for reasons mentioned in last chapter's Sparky Anderson commentary, take the cumulative OBP of the two top slots and divide it by the team's overall OBP. For the remaining two sections, the stat of choice is tOPS+, a Baseball-Reference invention that compares the OPS for a given split compared to the team's overall OPS. If a team with an 800 OPS had an OPS of 1200 from the heart of its order, they would have a tOPS+ of 150 because the split was 50% better than the squad as a whole. For the middle of the order, a higher tOPS+ indicates the manager did a good job filling out his lineup card. A lower tOPS+ for the bottom of the order is desired because that means he made sure his worst hitters were in the appropriate slots. Put all three of these splits through the Tendencies Database, add the results together, and determine who is best at creating batting orders.
However, a snag affects this plan. Everyone puts their best hitters in the heart of the order. That is not the case in the top or bottom of the order as some managers put speedsters who cannot steal first in the leadoff slot or walk machines at the bottom of the order, but every manager treats the middle the same. Ranking tOPS+ for the 3-6 hitters simply determines which clubs had the most impressive offensive core. There is little reason to give someone credit for realizing Barry Bonds should not bat eighth.
That split tells us little about managers, but the others can be quite illuminating. Add them together and see who has done the best job with a pencil and empty lineup card. This is not a perfect system, but it works tolerably well.
| Bill Virdon | 1.455 |
| Tony La Russa | 1.511 |
| Sparky Anderson | 1.610 |
| Red Schoendienst | 1.612 |
| Earl Weaver | 1.663 |
| John McNamara | 1.663 |
Virdon bests LaRussa, but they both have a comfortable lead on anyone else.
Also, LaRussa has a pet strategy with his batting orders that further shows he knows what he is doing: batting the pitcher eighth. While this confounds baseball tradition, a study in The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball, Andy Dolphin, Mitchel Lichtman, and Tom Tango revealed that placing the pitcher eighth in the batting order creates runs for a team. Those researchers have some problems with LaRussa's lineups (they think the fourth- or fifth-best hitter belongs in the #3 hole, where LaRussa puts Mark McGwire and Albert Pujols) but they agree with his signature batting order maneuver.
Do not let his genius reputation fool you, though. At heart, Tony LaRussa is a redass. Normally people associate the term "redass" with a manager like Larry Bowa, who knows only one gear - full steam ahead, which can wear a team down. LaRussa performs an internal balancing act between his heart and head. In other words he continually fights an internal battle between the burning desire to push for victory in every game with the recognition of long-term interests. Essentially, he embodies a redass version of the serenity prayer - he has the desire to push for it every game, the willpower to hold back as needed, and the intelligence to know when to push and when to hold back. One story about LaRussa demonstrated the stress this inner war placed on him. In mid-2007, LaRussa told reporters he was not about to retire because there were still games "when you've got a five-run lead, when it's tense and I can't swallow. I've got a headache, and I'm afraid I'm going to throw up. You only feel this stuff because you're anxious about the outcome." That is what happens when a person continually reins himself in.
LaRussa wants his players to feel the same drive. If one lacks that passion, even if it is a star like Scott Rolen or J. D. Drew, LaRussa cannot abide him. He sent both packing, and has had as many feuds with players as any prominent manager in recent times. In dealing with a particular player these feuds may be shortsighted, but they send a message to the rest of the team. If Scott Rolen is not safe, everyone else knows they need to play relentlessly. This ensures LaRussa's teams give their maximum effort.
In this regard, a parallel exists between Tony LaRussa and Joe McCarthy. The former Yankees skipper also strongly emphasized proper conduct while possessing a deep desire to win. Even as a rookie skipper, McCarty dumped all-time great Pete Alexander for his approach to the game. Furthermore, McCarthy, like LaRussa, also experienced head-vs.-heart conflict. McCarthy handled it by drinking his way into alcoholism. More recently, authorities arrested LaRussa in early 2007 for driving while intoxicated. It is difficult to cope with the internal pressure for decades.
Nonetheless, both managers consistently had their teams play as well as possible. In 30 years, LaRussa ran only one last place team, while overseeing eleven first place squads. In fact, in full seasons his teams have had the best record in the league more times than they had losing records (seven to six). Such an achievement requires talented players, but it also demands a manager who handles them appropriately. LaRussa has done a good job finding the best roles for his players, making sure everyone knows their job, and performs their best.
The most striking example of LaRussa's ability to get the most out of his players occurred in Oakland, where he assembled the greatest bullpen in baseball history from 1988-90. In that three-year period, Oakland's relievers posted a combined ERA of 2.60. In contrast, the best single season ERA by any other AL relief unit in that span was 2.82 by the 1988 Brewers. The chart compares Oakland's bullpens to the rest of the AL in defense-independent stats walks, strikeouts, and home runs allowed from 1988-90. Oakland's domination is obvious.
| Bullpens | BB/9 | K/9 | HR/9 |
| Oakland | 3.04 | 6.51 | 0.52 |
| The Rest | 3.67 | 6.10 | 0.75 |
This relief corps's performance was especially remarkable because its core members were poorly regarded prior to arriving in Oakland. The club had three bullpen mainstays in those years: Dennis Eckersley, Rick Honeycutt, and Gene Nelson. Both Eckersley and Honeycutt appeared to be washed up starters before LaRussa moved them to the bullpen. Honeycutt was so poorly thought of that Oakland acquired him for a player to be named later. Nelson previously played for LaRussa in Chicago, and had done adequately, but no more than that. The Sox shipped him along with another player to Oakland for a forgettable middle infielder. The A's augmented this bunch with more of the league's unwanted. Oakland swiped Joe Klink, who had a great year for them in 1990, from Minnesota for a minor league player-to-be-named-later. Mike Norris, a starter for Billy Martin in the early 1980s A's, was an internal reclamation project who also prospered in 1990. LaRussa converted Eric Plunk from a flop starter into a solid reliever.
With these castoffs, LaRussa constructed a bullpen that was not only spectacularly effective, but extremely influential. He used more specialized roles for his relief pitcher than had been common, subsequently affecting how other teams construct and utilize their bullpens. This opens up several thorny questions. Some contend that LaRussa's impact on contemporary bullpen usage is a mark against him. Specialization may have done more harm than good because it causes contemporary relief aces, nominally the best arms in the bullpen, to be used far less than the firemen of yore. However, one should not automatically assume that LaRussa was as influential in this area as conventional wisdom makes him out to be. As noted earlier in this chapter, Bobby Cox also helped create hyper-specialized relievers.
To examine the issue further, first one needs to tackle the issue of LaRussa's influence before assigning credit or blame. When the record is examined, the 1988-90 A's bullpen appears to have been a way-station between how relievers were used and how they have since been handled. Relief aces were already throwing fewer innings as managers like Cox reduced innings per appearance. For instance, whereas four closers threw over 100 innings in 1985 and five more did so in 1986, none tossed that many in 1987 - only three broke 90 innings. Still, the A's amplified this trend. Nothing breeds imitation like success and Oakland's glory run provided the most successful bullpen in baseball history. Innings per relief outing dropped by 20% in the AL from 1987-93. That was the sharpest reduction in league history, and it came when LaRussa's bullpen was at its height. Still, reliever roles were not as starkly defined then as they later became. Eckersley entered the game in the eighth inning twenty times a year from 1988 to 1990, far more than a present day closer would. LaRussa pointed the way forward and others went even further along.
Since LaRussa had an impact, that leads to the next question: was his influence benign or malignant? As critics of the 21st century bullpen usage rightly note, current relief aces throw considerably fewer innings than their pre-Eckersley ancestors. Instead of throwing 100 innings or more, contemporary closers are likely to toss around 60. It seems counterintuitive that an approach that limits the usage of the bullpen's most important player would be beneficial.
While true, the old-fashioned system featured a noticeable downside. If a team brought in its fireman to throw a few innings, he could not pitch for the next day or two. The current approach increases managerial flexibility, allowing closers to be available to close more games. Also, by minimizing the quantity of innings, managers can maximize quality of innings thrown from the most important bullpen arm. In a study in his book Winners, Dayn Perry argued modern closers are actually better leveraged than their predecessors. This flies in the face of a main criticism of current bullpen usage. People remember how Goose Gossage or Mike Marshall came into the seventh inning of tie games with the bases loaded and help the team out while moderns hold three-run leads in the ninth. Both scenarios existed, but neither described a typical outing for relief aces before or after Eckersley. Many seventh inning appearances from the 1970s did not come in highly dangerous scenarios and current closers hold plenty of one-run leads.
Ultimately, however, a moderate uptick in improved leveraging does not necessarily account for a considerable drop in innings. Though it has its advantages, the Oakland bullpen lessens the relief ace's importance.
However, paradoxical as it might sound, the new model bullpen does a better overall job utilizing the entire relief corps. The old version made sense provided a club had one trustworthy reliever, but normally a gigantic difference in quality between the two top arms in a bullpen does not exist. Thus if a manager spreads out the most important innings between them, and does it in a way that allows them to be called on more frequently, that helps his team's overall performance in close and late situations. Reserving roles by inning might be arbitrary and reductionist, but it has the advantage of ensuring that pitchers know their particular roles. If ever a team should have adopted this reliever strategy, it was LaRussa's Athletics. Since they featured numerous relievers pitching great, spreading out the key innings amongst them was sensible. LaRussa's handling of the Oakland relief corps was both cause and effect of their incredible quality.
Though that great bullpen was the most obvious example of LaRussa adeptly handling his talent, it was not the only one. A more recent example came with the 2008 Cardinals. St. Louis experienced a terrific stretch in the mid-2000s built around a core of Albert Pujols, Jim Edmonds, Scott Rolen, and Chris Carpenter. By 2008, only Pujols remained (well, St. Louis still had Carpenter but he was too badly injured to be of any value). The team especially lacked dependable starting pitchers. They featured mediocre journeyman Kyle Lohse, and reclamation project Joel Pineiro backed up by two converted relievers - Braden Looper and Todd Wellemeyer. Their most reliable hurler was Adam Wainwright, a 26-year-old with only 32 major league starts in his career. That was a prayer, not a stable starting rotation. LaRussa made it work, and the Cards ended the year with an unexpectedly strong 86-76 record despite playing in the NL's toughest division.
LaRussa has made a career of getting more than one would expect from his starters. He had numerous quality staffs despite rarely having elite starting pitchers. Chris Carpenter had a great stretch, but it was brief before injuries felled him. Besides, though Carpenter had been promising, he had never established himself before joining St. Louis. Tom Seaver is the only established great pitcher LaRussa has ever had, but he was at the end of his career when he came to LaRussa's White Sox. LaRussa is more likely to get good production from veteran pitchers who never wowed anyone before. The prototypical LaRussa success story was Dave Stewart. A struggling reliever before LaRussa got a hold of him, Stewart posted four consecutive twenty-win seasons for the A's. LaRussa also oversaw revivals from Darryl Kile, Woody Williams, Kent Bottenfield, Mike Moore, Floyd Bannister, Garrett Stephenson, Todd Stottlemyre, Jason Marquis, Jeff Suppan, and Bob Welch.
However, LaRussa has not had much success with young pitchers. The White Sox featured a flock of young arms emerge under him, almost all of who had disappointing careers. While drug addiction took their toll on Cy Young winner LaMarr Hoyt, and Britt Burns's career foundered due to a degenerative hip, Richard Dotson, who went 22-7 in 1983 at age 24, blew out his arm. Ross Baumgarten earned some Rookie of the Year votes in 1979, but won only seven more games in his career. Super-prospect Todd Van Poppel was a disaster in Oakland. Bud Smith came up with the Cards in 2001 and despite throwing a no-hitter, was out of baseball by his 23rd birthday. Matt Morris was runner-up in the Rookie of the Year voting in 1997, and survived an arm injury to win 22 games in 2001, but then faded out. Rick Ankiel suffered an epic mental meltdown in the 2000 playoffs, and his pitching career never recovered.
Tony LaRussa is not only baseball's best manager since Joe McCarthy, but he is on the verge of doing something unthinkable - passing John McGraw on the all-time wins list. LaRussa merely needs to survive four more seasons, averaging 76 wins per campaign. His teams won 78 or more games in each of the last nine years.
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1068 comments
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Comments
Looks like I missed quite the party last night.
1000 comments over a unicorn tweet? This places is nuts.
Thar's is funnier.
It’s the Captain Ahab version of That’s What She Said.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 15, 2009 7:56 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
twhs?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
No shit.
I logged on and saw that. My ‘Z’ button will be worn out reading all these.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
yeah, I dont get the staying up thing
granted im up that late usually anyway and I suppose it is fun to have baseball discussions…but the news will still be there in the morning.
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
As the old comedians used to say about their late shows,
It got a little blue.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 15, 2009 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
LaRussa wants his players to feel the same drive. If one lacks that passion, even if it is a star like Scott Rolen or J. D. Drew, LaRussa cannot abide him. He sent both packing, and has had as many feuds with players as any prominent manager in recent times. In dealing with a particular player these feuds may be shortsighted, but they send a message to the rest of the team. If Scott Rolen is not safe, everyone else knows they need to play relentlessly. This ensures LaRussa’s teams give their maximum effort.
Was Rolen an lack of drive player?
I obviously was never in the clubhouse but I saw him continually going up there and playing hurt (VERY hurt) and never wanting to be out of the line up.
Have I missed something?
I'm going to add my own
call of bullshit on that one. Scott Rolen’s feud with La Russa had absolutely nothing to do with drive. It had to do with two prideful, supremely stubborn individuals who simply couldn’t find a common ground in a disagreement.
Honestly, I’m more than a little bit bothered by that characterisation of Rolen. I would have to say it actually puts some doubt in my mind as to the overall quality level of this work. I’ll certainly defer to anyone with more knowledge of the book as a whole, though. Perhaps it’s simply a poorly thought-out line of reasoning and not something more systemic.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 15, 2009 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Somewhat OT...
(and probably discussed yesterday), but did you see the Rob Neyer column yesterday that listed the top 100 players of the 2000s? Pujols #1, Rolen # 11 and Edmonds #12. It helped remind me just how incredible the 2002-2005 seasons were to have all of those guys at their (relative) peaks. Of course they won it all in 2006, eliminating them from the “best team of the decade” discussions.
Side note: Renteria was listed #74. That’s a shame.
How amazing is it we somehow had guys of that quality in that quantity.
We could never afford a team like that now.
I know its the way the world is and I should quit my bitching, but I hate the way money is in baseball.
You cant talk about anything with out mentioning money, its kind of overbearing.
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
We can.
We just need to have one of them come from the farm system, like Pujols, so that he is affordable. In 2001, Pujols made $200K. In ‘02, he made $600K. That jumped to $900K in 2003 and then expanded to $7MM in 2004. In 2005, Pujols made $11MM, and it’s gone up every year since then. If you can get a young player that is excellent, you can afford to pay two excellent veterans, too. (Of course, having an incredibly cheap pitching staff, like in 2004, doesn’t hurt either.) This is why I’m a faberge egg propagandist. We have to have good, young, and cheap players to be able to afford Pujols’s extension, Wainwright’s extension, and (hopefully) Holliday’s 6-year extension with two club option years at an average annual salary of $16MM (knock on wood).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yup
You have to hope that 3 of Rasmus, Jones, Kozma, Stock, and Miller pan out in the next 2-3 years. If they do, then they become cost-controlled assets that allow us to sign players like Wainwright to an extension in 2013
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
who's our 'money' on to 'pan out'
/hoping for Rasmus, Miller and either Jones or Stock
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 15, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly
If I had to bet, it would be this:
- Rasmus
- Stock (as a pitcher)
- Miller
I’m kinda going south on DJ Tools — his power hasn’t developed and it should have by now. I think he’s going to end up being a John Jay that can’t play CF at a high level, which means he isn’t worth much at all to a big league club.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Stock
i admit, i didn’t know much about him until recently, but it sounds like to me, he’s either a B+/A- Catcher (with Power) or a B+/A- Pitcher, yet now Sickels ranks him as a B. Is that odd to anyone else, or is Sickels just hedging his bet on the guy, until he gets a larger sample size, and/or idea on which position he will play?
I ask, because you seem to know more about ol’ bobby.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 15, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Sickels thinks a lot more of him than most other scouts and talent evaluators
based significantly on his upside.
You’ve heard of Bryce Harper, right? The phenom catcher/pitcher/OF with the crazy talent who’s taking his GED so he can go to community college at age 17 to get in the draft next summer? Well, Robert Stock was Bryce Harper 3 years ago. He graduated early to go play at USC when he was 17, struggled offensively against the older players there, got moved to the mound and dominated the Pac-10, then left for the draft last year at age 19 and got selected by the Cardinals, who started him in A-ball as a catcher. Most people hated this move, as they like him more as a pitcher than a catcher, but you don’t find too many catchers with 30 HR upside, so I agree with John: If he can hack it as a catcher, he’s an extremely valuable commodity as he’s good defensively, but can slug 30 homers a year from behind the plate. If he can’t hack it with the bat, you can always move him to the mound where he’s got an A level arm.
Most have rated him a C+/B- prospect as a catcher and probably a solid B prospect as a pitcher, mainly due to his lack of starting experience as a pitcher.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Dec 15, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I vote for Cooper Randal and Miller.
Not too sure about DJ Tools.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
...
I would have to say it actually puts some doubt in my mind as to the overall quality level of this work.
Chris Jaffe does good work and spends a lot of time researching managers and players. He may have mischaracterized Rolen, but don’t take that out on the rest of his work.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think we really know
I tend to agree he came out and played every day, but that does not mean you have passion. Maybe he mailed it in. I think the ultimate issue was “who’s in charge” and LaRussa needed to prove he was. I don’t remember any Cards standing up for him at the time or later, so maybe there was more to it than we know.
I wouldn’t discount his analysis becaue of a poor choice of words. The point he is making is that he won’t let anyone interfere with the desire to win — Rolen was becoming a cancer. Maybe saying Rolen lacked passion was a stretch.
Just win
Radio media in STL has implied
that part of the feud (prior to the “letter”, et al) was how Tony handled Albert versus the rest of the team. They say this wore on Rolen and he whined about it.
As much as Rolen was a gamer, he also pissed people off in Phillie & STL. In St. Louis my biggest problem was his playing through pain while never acknowledging the shoulder was bothering him. Obviously it was a problem, because a layman could see it was affecting his swing.
Stupid Hee Sop Choi and Alex Cintron.
by creativereason on Dec 15, 2009 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, I didn't buy it till he started getting bounced from every -other- team.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the problem with Rolen was how pissed off he was at the Cards Dr's
Rolen felt betrayed & stabbed in the back by Tony, the rest of the coaches & FO because they sided with the DR’s instead of him. that’s the only reason why there was a falling out, if Scotty didn’t feel screwed over by the Dr’s, he’d still be playing for the Cardinals right now.
it had nothing to do with his drive or effort. that’s lazy reporting by the authors & if they had made just one phone call to Scotty or the Cards they would have known the real reason why he was traded. if anything Scotty wanted to play too much, he never wanted a day off & he felt he should always be on the field. comparing him to that nancy boy JD is a slap in his face & the single biggest disrespecting piece to ever be written about him.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Dec 15, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Agreed...
Rolen was always my favorite Card when he was with the team. It was not only his on the field play, but the way he went about it that made him my fav. (grit factor + objective performance) To hear that he didn’t play with passion is an insult to him.
I want rolen back
Seriously if we land Holliday I would be willing to deal with any drop off from Rolen just to see him back.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
When he play vs. the Cards last season
He said he stopped by Tony’s office to wish him the best or something to that extent. I saw it in a FSN pre-game interview, I think. I wonder if he would be willing to come back? Probably it will never happen.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
that was really big of him to do that, he didn't have to say anything
but he wanted to quote, “bury the hatchet” and i’m glad they did.
sadly he’ll never be back though, not when the same people he feels screwed him over are still the Dr’s.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
y'all are misremembering
all it was — a quick word and then they parted ways. more of a detente, esp. since in the same interview Scottie said he had a longer conversation with other people.
if you remember the last Reds series, Tony spent a good five minutes arguing with the ump in front of Rolen. No eye contact, no acknowledgment.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I am afraid that you are probably right
Sometimes things improve with the passing of time. I guess the Wizard and TLR are still not on speaking terms. Sigh.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I'm not a nancy boy!
I resemble that remark!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 16, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
wrong jd, JD
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
There WAS nothing wrong with my name
Until that talented ass-clown came out and started faking injuries
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 16, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Mr Redbird should think about making a come back
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
...AJ Pujols will be 18
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
hit and run, killed a kid, police chase
sad all around
I dont know if he is the same guy who was in the minors or not though
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
Holy crap...
so he killed a kid while fleeing the police. That’ll get you some time…
Was this affter the Cards released him? It was surprising how high they took him…
MB for LF in 2010!
Two Wilfredos....
I remember reading something about this last summer since I live in Kansas City. There is a Wilfredo J. Pujols and a Wilfredo Pujols Jr. apparently. Based on the link below neither are the fine upstanding citizen that Sir Albert is. The Wilfredo who was involved in the hit and run was 24 at the time. See second link.
http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com
by arthropodtodd on Dec 15, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
so has anyone
seen any confirmation of the offer other than Strauss’ article, which strikes me as still highly speculative. I’m really hoping it’s just Strauss being an asshat (cue RiverRat sig) and that’s not the real offer. 8 years and 128 million is too much for this organization to tie up in one player, especially one who might represent a substantial defensive liability in left as he ages.
I heard someone saying
that in 8 years the money wont be so bad, but thats assuming contracts keep going up.
Im always wondering how long can the salary escalation keep going on in MLB?
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
true
but you’ve almost got to wonder if its permanent or until the recession is dead and gone.
But thats a great point
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
Mo's figuring in the apocalypse
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Mo is a genius!
Left Behind is non-fiction. Right?
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
memes belong to the collective
if it doesn’t, you’re, like… gdm, I guess.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Being like GDM is a good thing right?
Right guys? fretting
if you ask him, he can tell you in detail.
probably without any paragraph breaks.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
one day i'd like to have a write off with red,
i bet i could give him a run for his money.
and i’m sorry, no mob, being anything like me is bad.
and memes belong to everyone, pics or gifs on the other hand are totally different.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Pardon?
Do you mean in terms of sheer quantity of verbiage, or what exactly?
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
Hey
will you do a special x-mas playlist for your next post?
Suggestions:
Christmas (Baby Please Come Home) – Darlene Love
We’re Goin’ to the Country! – Sufjan Stevens
It will indeed be up tomorrow.
And those are both excellent choices.
Sneak preview: Slade’s “Merry Xmas Everybody” will be included.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
I've been addicted to Sufjan's songs for Christmas the last few weeks.
Lovely and haunting.
My wife’s cousin was killed in a car accident late Saturday night. This is my first depressing Christmas season, something that I always thought was oxymoronic when people said that the Holidays depressed them.
I can’t wait to get out of town and go to my parents farm to get away from it all next week.
Oh, my.
I’m so sorry to hear that, Alex. Tough way to go for the both of you. I hope your wife is holding up alright; it’s always tough to have such lousiness associated with such a joyous time of year. I’ve never lost anyone at Christmas time, specifically, but the holidays always seem to twist the knife of absence just that much more.
Hopefully it will only get better from here.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah it's weird.
We’ve hardly even accepted that she’s gone, but we’ve accepted that Christmas’ from now on will always be depressing in a way knowing that her loud ass (meant in the most meaningful way, she could make anyone smile) is not there.
Her parents and sister and brother were all wearing their Cardinals jerseys at the wake tonight since they wanted to celebrate her life and she liked nothing more than watching a Cards game. Made me choke up just walking in.
I would try to come up with something cheerful to up your mood,
but unfortunately that’s not really my thing. Existential dread and wistful sorrow, that’s me.
If I were a superhero, I would be Bummerman and would depress villains into turning themselves in and then hanging themselves with their shoelaces once they were in prison.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
I'm good
The wife and I just need to get to my folks place (I haven’t been home for longer than two days max in three and a half years) and watch Illinois beat Mizou again.
The Holidays will right themselves.
But if your superpowers could whine for some snow, that’d be sweet.
Hmm.
See, now I’m really conflicted, because I want you to be happy, but I’ll also be rooting for the Tigers to put a royal stomping on your boys in orange. My only recourse may really be to see if I can sadden a cloud into dropping a load of snow onto us.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
that's awful to hear man
i’m never any good at this, so i’ll just say i’m sorry to learn of you & your wife & her family’s loss, and i hope you all can find some kind of comfort & solace to help you through this time.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Thanks man.
I’m almost robotic in nature when it comes to death and it freaks some people out (including my wifes family and my mom; I’ve been to way too many funerals for a 29 year old) how cooly I accept it, but thats only b/c of my fear that death is the end and our lives are pointless scares me too much to react to that exact possibility when I’m confronted with it.
Not to get religious or existential here, but if this is it (which I am afraid it is) I’m going to be royally pissed.
You know,
not to get really, really weird, but that’s honestly the only reason I’ve never killed myself. I’m just too goddamned scared to find out I’ve been right all along and there really isn’t anything else. I’m far too attached to myself for this to be it.
If I believed there was even a chance of something beyond this, though, I would have done away with myself long ago.
See, like I said last night, I really shouldn’t hang around here this time of night.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
this isn't all there is, it can't be
there is something better on the other side. i have no doubt about that.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I went to the doctor for a sinus infection last week.
She told me I had high blood pressure and had gained 18 pounds in the last two years. I told her I knew I was fat and that I have had high blood pressure since I was 18 and I weighed 160 pounds.
She asked why I never asked to get it treated and I told her I had high blood pressure, I’l live with it, just like my dad has and my gradpa did. She asked if I wanted to live longer than my grandpa and I said no.
She was kind of shocked and I told her he lived until he was 57 years old, smoked two packs of smokes a day and got drunk every night. he loved his wife, raised his kids, and worked his job. He could have lived longer but didn’t to go to the hospital b/c Hill Street Blues was on and he was watching it, chest pains be fucking damned. He died because that’s what men do. They’re born, they live, they die. That’s life.
As far as my grandpa was concerned, as soon as he died, life was over and he had nothing else to worry about. That’s when men were men.
When you die, you die, and you trip on this little planet of ours is done.
Which sound heroic, if not moronic, and I, in my pussified wisdom, gave in to my doc and I, who went in for a sinus infection, I came out with Affrin, blood pressure medicine, and a new physical trainer to fix my back. My grandpa would kick my ass if he was still alive.
i bet he'd be jealous that you'll now get live longer
and get to party harder than he ever did
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I'll drink to that...
wait that seems really inappropriate.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
i would like to live to see my grandkids.
i’d miss a whole fucking lot if i died at 57.
i’m on board with the whole not fighting it out till long past i can’t remember who i am. but there’s a lot of space between a fatal MI at 57 and getting fed through a tube at 85.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
But then there are people
like my grandfather who’s 86 and lives by himself with no real problems. If I got those genes I’ll be rather happy. If I get the 80 year old living in a home crapping himself genes I’ll be pissed.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
i didn't mean to say being 85 isn't worth it. i've got the being 85
isn’t a treat genes on both sides. so i’m resigned to there being an endpoint. my ninth decade – should i reach that far – is not going to be pretty.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I didn't say you were.
More just trying to give a shout out to my grandpa.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
i just realized my comment had been phrased in a way
that could be misinterpreted. i was correcting myself not so much for you but other folks.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Fair enough...
I’ll chalk it up to being late and slipping reading skills. Granted since I’m on vampire time that’s not really a great excuse, but whatever.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
the cool vampire time though right?
for your sake i hope it’s not that abomination twilight
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Nah since I have no worldly responsibilites
I’ve taken to taking my nightly nap anywhere between 4 and 6 in the morning and waking up around noon. Life is a lot of fun with 4 1/2 hours of daylight. Hence vampire time.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Nice, me too
And I’m loving this VEB up at 2:30.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 16, 2009 3:25 AM EST up reply actions
count me in
I’m just sad there’s no midnight strauss info
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 16, 2009 3:31 AM EST up reply actions
I'm kinda disappointed in my boy too
Now I’m left with nothing to look forward to.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 16, 2009 3:36 AM EST up reply actions
i've been around a lot of death too
it never gets any easier for me though. i’m robotic about it in some ways, but when it happens to people you don’t think it should, usually friends & those under 40, i have a hard time shaking it. of course i still haven’t been able to shake off what we all went through with my dad & that was 2 years ago this week. so maybe i’m not as robotic about it as i think.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I would give a lot
to be able to live my life thinking there was something after this. Seems like a much happier existence going through life believing this is a dress rehearsal.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Being able to make up our own afterlifes
made getting through the war a lot easier (and fun!) for my friends and I.
Luckily I've never had to be in a situation like that.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
It made philosophising intersting
and made actual philosophy classes seem retarded at times afterward. And disproved quite a few times the old adage “there are no atheists in foxholes.”
It is really late
and I’m pretty sure there’s only a handful of people on here and I just feel like I can’t call myself the believer that I profess to be (in places other than here because its not allowed) without interjecting here a little. All it takes to believe that there is something after this life is just a little blind faith that we were put here for a purpose and that there is something more than just our daily lives going on here.
It definitely is a happier life, and you do not have to give a lot, just yourself, to experience it. You seem like a smart person and I’m sure you have read the bible before. Seek your answers there and be open to accepting the truth with blind faith and you can have that happiness. That goes for all of you.
I’m sorry if I overstepped here and I wouldn’t care if this goes away. I just feel like with the darkness that is being bantered about, a little light needed to be shined. I apologize if I have offended anyone, but this is what I believe and I hope that you could all come to accept it as well. I’ve always tried to avoid getting in this discussion because I didnt want to offend anyone or break community guidelines, but I just feel like tonight I need to share a little.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
thanks
I’ll put in a word or two with the big guy for you and yours.
If you ever have any questions, shoot me an email. sarnold4@hotmail.com
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
we talk occasionally
normally when I’m in the middle of a pasture or forest or on a board in the ocean.
He’s a cool dude, from what I gather.
Eh seemed fine to me.
But then again my name and avatar aren’t at the bottom so my opinion probably doesn’t matter.
My whole problem is after being trained as an engineer blind faith is not something that jives well with me. And therein lies the problem.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
yeah
dang that education. Mine is physical therapy, at a baptist university, coming from a baptist college in undergrad. Funny thing is, I made all the life changes before going to those schools, while I was at a JUCO where everyone was partying and livin it up. Then, I just kinda fell into the baptist school for undergrad because of baseball.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
My personal theory on all this stuff
pretty much boils down to don’t be a jerk. I figure it’s hard to go wrong with a theory like that.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Sorry for your loss, Eff.
When I was 11, my grandpa (who I lived with) died of cancer 6 days before Christmas. I’d spent all of November pleading with the universe to not let him die on my birthday (Dec 1). I didn’t consider the ramifications of losing him at Christmas-time.
Just hug everyone a little tighter and a little longer. It’s the only advice I have.
Now with extra feisty!
That's pretty good advice for any situation, really.
Just hug everyone a little tighter and a little longer. It’s the only advice I have
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 16, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
We are the Birdo
Your memeness shall be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Albertofstan is a great country
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly...
you don’t see me being stingy with my gift to the world.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Albertofstan...
great country? Or Greatest Country?
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 15, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
we're too humble to set anyone straight.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I thought it was
We’re too busy singing to put anybody down?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
singing?
that sounds like a prelude to the Wave…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
anyone who does the wave will be killed on the spot
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i thought that was implied?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
It's a temporary stop
The economy is already picking up. Attendance wasn’t down nearly as much in 2009 as managers anticipated.
We'll see...
I think there was an irrational run-up in salaries from 2005-2008, and while the recession put the kibosh on some of that, improved value assessment was the main driver.
There’s a dwindling stable of nitwit GMs, and they come under intense ridicule when they do something like give Brandon Lyons three years.
MB for LF in 2010!
$16M for a 37 yr old in eight years
Cameron is a good example. He just signed for $15.5M/2 yrs entering his age 37 season. Let’s front load it and say he is making $8.5M this year and $7.0M in 2011. A 10% annual increase in salaries would make that $8.5M equal to $16.0M in 2017.
Not sure salaries in baseball can average 10% increase for the next 8 years. A 5% annual increase translates to $12M in 2017.
the economy isn't picking up
if the gov’t doesn’t stop f’ing around we’re in a lot more trouble than anyone realizes. look at the NBA, NHL & NFL games & you’ll see a lot of empty seats that weren’t there last seasons. MLB contracts will never be what they once were unless the economy is allowed to improve on it’s own & people are once again able to come to the games. if those 3 are facing an attendance problems now, you can bet MLB will too in 2010
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
That's not really a sign of a bad economy
#1. I believe NHL attendance is actually up outside of a couple markets like Phoenix and the Islanders (massive mitigating factors). Luxury stuff is down, but I believe they’re talking that the salary cap is going to stay where it’s at or nudge up a bit. The NBA has been in decline for awhile anyway. I have nothing for the NFL attendance (but I like to think people have realized that going to an NFL game is worse than watching 2 games at once on TV)
#2. In any case, struggling attendance I would say would be a result of the high unemployment rate and then its effect of scaring people who do have jobs into saving more (which is likely a good thing long term anyway). Unemployment is a lagging indicator of the worst kind so short term attendance doesn’t mean all that much if we’re talking 5-8 year deals.
Not afraid to nitpick
Rams games are the worst
Sooooo boring. College football is great live. The problem with the Rams is their no tail gaiting anymore. I used to tail gate the Rams games all the time. My buddies gf was a Miller girl so we all just hung outside after the game started and just drank.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
but if the high unemployment continues, and there aren't many signs it's going to get lower
deal will be effected & i think they already are being effected. i am by no mean an economist, i watch the three biz channels & read a little online about the economy & like to think i could do well on the stock market. so i’m only going by what i see & read. and a high unemployment like the real 20% we have right now is going to kill sports teams in the very near future if it stays that high. with the Cardinals who have to depend on 3+ million fans coming to 81 games + playoff to keep payroll around $100Mil, a high unemployment will effect their bottom line & their ability to sign long terms deals. and i think it already is, MO & DeWitt have said as much this off season.
one thing i didn’t mention about the NFL is how many bad teams there are right now. those are the teams that have the lowest attendance. winning teams will still draw, but if city’s like the STL, Cleveland & Jacksonville don’t start winning soon, those teams will be in big, big trouble.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
STL Economy is made on evil and covered up by Pies
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
i always forget to take into account the pies
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Ummm 20%????
How come I haven’t heard this more?
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
There's unreported unemployment. Perhaps gdm heard an estimate of that.
Still, it’s likely only 20% in select areas. Like Detroit.
Now with extra feisty!
Unemployment numbers only count people getting a check
If you’ve exhausted that, or didn’t have the right kind of job you don’t get unemployment.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I understand that. But many people have given up looking.
What do you call someone that’s exhausted unemployment and can’t find a job? Me, I still call them unemployed. Economists are calling them the unreported jobless.
Now with extra feisty!
right & under employment is factored into that 20%
where people are working at lower paying jobs than they were a few years ago.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Well this is a fun subthread...
time for shots.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
If when surveyed you reported
“Seeking a job but not currently employed” you would be counted as unemployed.
Not afraid to nitpick
60,000 households
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
To skew it the way the person paying wants...
At least that’s what I’d want if I commissioned one of those bad boys.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
well, it's done by
the bureau of labor statistics. not they wouldn’t necessarily have a reason to skew the results. but it’s not like it’s done by the white house or anything
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
that, i don't know
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
i wonder that too
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
wrong
unemployment is based on an employment survey
employed = employed
seeking employment = unemployed
not seeking employment = not counted
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Underemployment
ie people unemployed, no longer looking, and those working part time dead end jobs that used to have real careers has been ~ 20% for like 18 months now. Welcome to America.
Well yeah
But unemployment isn’t predictive at all, it’s reactive, and 5 months from now it will be a very different situation. I say for the good, maybe for the bad, but what it is right now is borderline irrelevant to what it’s going to be 5 months from now.
Whatever 20% “real” means is….just inaccurate, they can manipulate the stats any which way they want. That’s like putting RA on the ERA scale, if only RA were completely impossible to calculate and the majority of the difference between the two was totally irrelevant (had to throw a baseball analogy in here somewhere!). There’s a standardized way of calculating unemployment and any dramatic shift in unemployment will be—-and has been—-recorded on that scale.
Not afraid to nitpick
the 20% comes from factoring in under employment,
people who are getting paid less for a job then a few years ago or have taken a pay cut. and people who are like spants & tired of looking & stopped. i do agree you can spin it any way you want, but whatever way you spin it the numbers are not good & i don’t think they will be getting any better any time soon.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i thought you might still be doing that in home things you've talked about
but i wasn’t sure, i was just using you as an example because you said it above
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i actually have a job interview tomorrow
For a job paying much less than I was making before.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
well that sucks, i'm not going to come close to making what i used to either
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I feel ya
I used to make just stupid money. But life on commission is like that. I don’t think I could go back to a 100% commission job.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
me neither, i'll never go back to that
it’s not good for my health
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I hear ya
I just couldn’t handle the stress after awhile.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 16, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
my old boss who is just 9 years older than i
almost died 5 times this year from his heart & gallbladder problems. that was a big wake up call to me to get out of that. that & it’s also harder than it used to be in sales.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
No the numbers are not good currently
But you shouldn’t be looking to unemployment for any prediction at all. It is a lagging indicator.
It’s basically the same as looking at other, months old, leading indicators, which were terrible……well yeah that’s obviously true, but we have months of new data that describes what is likely to happen much better.
Not afraid to nitpick
I still think the worst is ahead of us not behind us
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
as do i, i think there will be a small uptick & then a bigger drop off
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Based on what exactly?
Just curious.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
i don't know if i can without getting too political
i’ll try to dance around this as best i can.
i am a big believer in a free market, free enterprise system that’s lets capitalism work. and our leaders don’t share those same views & are doing everything they can to make us as a nation more dependent on our gov’t to provide all our jobs & basically run our lives. unless that changes, and changes quickly this small uptick that’s currently happening won’t last for long.
if that’s too much, feel free to get rid of it red, i tried to dance as best i could. but seeing as i’m a white guy in ohio, my dancing skills are not very good.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Don't sell yourself short
I’ve seen you spinkler and start the lawn mower with the best of them.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
the cabage patch is my go to move
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Well I just assumed that...
doesn’t every honky default to the cabbage patch?
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
damnit man stop giving away our secrets!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
It's about as well kept secret
as the one about you liking bacon, brownies, and bourbon…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
i guess that's why i cant work for the CIA/FBI
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i guess this is why i cant work for the CIA/FBI
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
WTF SBN?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Deja vous? That means there's a glitch in the SBN
Somethings changed. The CIA/FBI (aka. azru) are onto you. Shouldn’t have brough up politics. Apparently you can’t dance well enough to save your life. Better get some help

"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 16, 2009 3:22 AM EST up reply actions
no one can help me
it’s too late i’m a goner
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
you didn't really give any explanation there
any kind of claims as to the direction of the economy should be explained from an economic standpoint, not a political one.
how soon you also forget that this economic problem started under political leadership with economic values similar to your own
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
careful, this is a baseball blog
keep it clean
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 16, 2009 3:23 AM EST up reply actions
honestly
i’m just looking for an economic explanation as to why he believes such. i’m also interested on what basis the claim that a slight economic improvement followed by a massive downturn can be predicted lies
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Agreed.
If its not simply politics, there should be evidence for it.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
It passed the eye test?
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
nowdaggoneeyetestwhatchutalkinboutman?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Sounded good at the time
good job with the Brett Myers spouses assaulted stat in the article yesterday. I enjoyed the humor even if others didn’t.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
no they did not
anyone who believes the gov’t should have their hands in the private sector does not share my beliefs. i don’t care what letter comes after your name, if you help put this country on the path it is today, you’re screwing up everything for everyone.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
No, he's saying that the problems were
due to UNDER-regulation, not excessive regulation
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
ok, that's fine
but i still don’t think it’s the gov’t job to do the regulations.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Exactly
The fact that the mods let this conversation go on this long is surprising to me
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 16, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
i tried to keep my part all biz related
i really did
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
So, in essence
You believe in a completely free-market society and that free markets will always correct themselves if they get to out of whack. The less regulation the better, no regulation at all is the best.
Supposing the above is true, then you believe that the government should have just let the entire financial system fail last year, correct? Every bank should have gone down the same way that Lehman Brothers went down. I’ve heard this from a lot of people, and as a capitalist free-market groupthink it makes some semblence of sense — let the strong survive and let the weak fail.
The problem is that banks like Citigroup and Bank of America have their hands and fingers in everything. If you let those major banks fail, then companies like GE, General Motors, Ford, Exxon, etc. can’t even make payroll — they would essentially go bankrupt in a matter of weeks because they don’t have the liquid asset available to make their payrolls without commercial paper, which is backed by those big banks. If you let the entire financial system fail, you’re talking about MASSIVE unemployment — probably much, much worse than the Great Depression, which took 20 years and the massive government spending of WWII to recover from.
Now, capitalism protects nobody, rich or poor, but those who are smart enough to “read the market” and pick up inefficiencies which can be exploited. What these financial companies are engaged in, and what caused this huge recession isn’t capitalistic principles — it’s the principles of greed, pure and simple, and greed really doesn’t mix with capitalism in my view. Capitalism is an economic and social system in which capital, the non-labor factors of production (also known as the means of production), is privately controlled;[citation needed] labor, goods and capital are traded in markets; and profits distributed to owners or invested in technologies and industries. But these banks aren’t invested in technologies and industries, they’re invested in trillions of dollars in unregulated derivatives that don’t have any basis of value except for what the market describes of them. If a company goes under, that company generally will have assets and liabilities with which to provide investors, and those assets and liabilities must be disclosed to the public. These derivatives can literally disappear into thin air overnight — from being valued at $100 to being gone, because they aren’t backed with actual assets and anyone knows anything about.
The futures market works like this too. Every literal barrel of oil produced in the world has already been traded between 20-40 times before it is even OUT OF THE GROUND. Other commodities work in this same way. Last year, the futures market for oil traded more barrels of oil in a single year than has ever been produced in the history of the oil industry. Think about that for a minute. They aren’t creating value, they’re exploiting prices. They aren’t creating products or goods, they’re making billions of dollars selling future barrels of oil that don’t currently exist. It’s lunacy!
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Your first paragraphs basically makes this a strawman, doesn't it?
I don’t see how you can assume that his viewpoint is necessarily “no regulation at all” based on what he said. That kind of 100% unregulated economy neither exists anywhere nor can it exist anywhere. And I would be very surprised if he was actually in favor of it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
No, it really doesn't
He believes in the “free market-free enterprise system”, which is essentially saying that he believes that the more unrestrained the market is the better it is for everyone involved. It’s an Alan Greenspan-esque view, and even he’s said that he overestimated how well the market could check itself.
Furthermore, I stated that I was assuming this based on his conversation in the thread. If this is not the way that he feels then he needs to speak up and say so and I will adjust my argument.
I do think that there are a lot of people who believe in the “free-market and free-enterprise” but have little to no idea what that means. I’m trying to have a conversation about what a true Adam Smith style free market would look like.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Fair enough
I think a lot of people say “free enterprise” and they really don’t mean “pure Adam Smith type” economy. Some hardcore types do, sure.
I tend to assume that is someone says they are a “free market” type, they accept that some sort of minimum amount of regulation is required. The question then becomes, since modern economies including the U.S. economy are significantly regulated, does one think we need more, less, or the same amount of regulation. I assumed gdm the, favors less than we have now. But maybe he really is one of the minority of “true” free marketers.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
And I think that
economies work better when the government does some “trust busting” every once and a while. You can’t tell me that telephone service isn’t cheaper now than it was in 1975, when adjusted for inflation, and it’s cheaper to fly now than it ever has been before due to deregulation of the airline industry.
FWIW, I think that Glass-Steagall needs to be re-enacted in some form, because it’s been proven over the last 14 years that deposit banks and investment banks cannot work as the same entitiy. The investment arm is always going to have debt that the deposit side cannot capitalize.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i'm not smart enough to debate financial stuff with you
or anyone actually. all i know is the less the gov’t has it’s hands in the financial sector, the better off we all are. i didn’t say there shouldn’t be any regulations. i think there should be some form, what that is i’m not smart enough to come up with. but there just should not be any regulations enforced by the gov’t because absolute power corrupts absolutely.
when you have banks that are strong armed into giving out loans to people by those in the gov’t or who are very close to the gov’t, then all hell breaks lose. this country wouldn’t be here today unless that happened. and why did that happen? the facts as i see it are people with certain political & social agendas twisted arms & forced the hands of many banks. if that never happened, we’d be in a lot better financial position. and Lego probably would be getting $200Mil for 8 years & Albert would get $400Mil for 10 & no one would blink because that’s just how good off we’d all be.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I'm late on this
But you’re actually very wrong on this. That’s fine if you believe in a free enterprise system and free market system, but if you know game theory at all, there’s HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE risk for “Tragedy of the Commons,” which is why I believe that some intervention is okay
Furthermore, unless you want a Depression that lasted 15 years with HUGE unemployment rates, then the government bailout was definitely needed. The CBO found that the government multiplier is 1.50 (that is, for every $1 the government spends, GDP raises $1.50) and the tax multiplier was about 1 (which is why I’m not a big fan of them, but they have a more immediate effect on the economy)
And on your first point, as an economics major, I think the worst is way behind us. Everything, right now, is trending in the right direction The one thing I’m worried about is when the Fed decides to raise interest rates. I think that MAYBE enough people have gotten out of bonds and into stocks to stymie a huge drop in the stock market when that happens, but there’s be a dip nonetheless
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'm just upset
that as a civil engineer I was told Obama would be making it rain for us… I have yet to see this. Granted it’s winter in Chicago, but still. I’m not really upset about it. I just like making that joke.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I am a rather financially conservative person by nature
But money spent on infrastructure is one place I don’t complain
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 16, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
If you get out and look at some of the roads and bridges
It’s very scary. Even more scary if you know what you’re looking at :)
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
absofreaklinglutely
just look at what happened to the twin cities two years ago. many of our bridges we all use every day are in bad bad shape
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Not to split hairs
I totally understand what you guys are saying and I generally agree, but wasn’t there a design flaw in that bridge that ultimately was the reason for the collapse? Obviously the years of wear and tear contributed, as did the construction and extra concrete they added to it, but infrastructure is only as good as its design and execution. Not all publicly funded infrastructure projects are created equal, and something like that could easily happen again down the road if it isn’t done right. I could be totally off base with this though.
Anyway, I don’t mean to be a jerk. But I am a knee-jerk (?). It’s kind of like when people cite natural disasters when they argue for action on climate change. OK, I’m done now, sorry.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I was trained in the transportation division of civil engineering
so I am by no means a structural engineer which is where bridges come in. But generally the design flaws aren’t really all that important if things were maintained properly. To put this in a realm I know what I’m talking about. I’ll talk about potholes. Potholes more or less are a failure of the pavement. They are caused first by a crack, and then that crack allowing water to get in run some freeze-thaw cycles. This weakens the road until big heavy things drive over it and cause the failure. This can all be solved by sealing the cracks to prevent water from getting in. So there you go long rambling explanation that didn’t really have a well thought out point. These are the things you get from me when I just wake up.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Heh. No worries.
But pavement itself doesn’t have a very complicated “design”, does it? The bridge in question had some sort of steel plating (I think) somewhere that they determined was too thin (again, I think, I am relying on wikipedia here) from the get-go. It very well may have been something that better maintenance could have solved, but I thought I read more than once that the design flaw was thought to be the main culprit.
And on a related note, man I sure do love me some new and improved highway 40. Though, part of that could just be that traffic is now way better where I live and work.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I think you are right on some things
Pavement design is very complicated. It’s not just about designing the surface layer. You have to design the base, subbase, and consider the subgrade. This is on top of the geometric design: horizontal, vertical, cross sections, and superelevation.
On the I-35W bridge collapse, I think NTSB agrees with you that it was probably the gusset plate and lack of maintenance and inspection.
NTSB report
Agreed on the I-64 construction. I think it was wise that they closed down sections at a time which shortened the length of construction. I still crack up at all you STL folks that still call it highway 40.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Man, turns out there's a lot I don't know about pavement
Cool beans.
And gusset plate is the term I was not remembering, thanks.
It will always be highway 40 to me, I can’t help it. That’s just what it was called by people I was around and dadgummit, it’s a free country! If a man wants to call it highway 40 we should respect his wishes!
I will never ever call it highway “farty”, nor will I ever refer to its cousin “farty far”.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I am still trying to pronounce
Wash U correctly. Is it “Werrshh U”?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Ugh. I don't go for that either. I don't warsh my clothes.
I’ve noticed they’re emphasizing WUSTL instead of Wash-U now. Kind of annoying, because I really prefer saying “washu” to saying “woostel”.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
There was a design flaw
from my understanding. However if the stuff is properly inspected by people who know what they’re doing it can usually be caught before it all comes down. A lot of this stuff starts presenting itself well before the failure occurs. And the difference between pavement design and bridge design is, when we screw up a pavement it falls apart and you slow down some to make it work, possibly a few cars get jacked up. When a bridge comes down it’s bad times all around.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
All I'm sayin
Is that unemployment is a bad indicator of future performance haha!!
There’s arguments to be made either way on the future though obviously yeah I’m on the more optimistic end of those. Probably way too political to go further than that.
Not afraid to nitpick
rather
rbi
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 16, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
i'm so f'in lost right now it's not even funny
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
still, no way bernanke deserves a 10 year deal.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
if only.
otoh, GM tried to opt themselves right out of business- but the gov’t decided they were too big to fail, and gave them $50B to sign up for another few years of replacement-level production…
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
Does the U.S. economy consistently outperform its peripherals?
And if so is there a non-luck reason for this consistency?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
8 years isn't that bad
provided the Cardinals offer an opt-out clause. In fact, I would guess the Cardinals wouldn’t offer the 8 year deal without the opt-out clause, hoping that 4 years into the deal Holliday runs for more money, thereby allowing the Cardinals to make an offer to Albert that times a salary escalation for the same time.
But the opt-out...
is necessarily a benefit to the player. If his deal is below market, he leaves, if it isn’t he stays. In either case the team loses. Presumably, Holliday would take less money/fewer years in return for the opt-out clause.
MB for LF in 2010!
the way I see the opt out
it hurts us if he gets hurt or stinks obviously
but I would rather lose 1-2 good years where we are paying around market value than be stuck with 2-3 years of diminished output where we are still paying a lot.
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
I would argue
That taking $16 million a season over an 8 year deal is less than what Boras believes he can get for Holliday in future off-seasons and therefore any opening to give Matt another shot at free agency while also hedging the potential for an injury is worth it to the player.
mutual opt out? without a buyout or something else the opting out party gives up, that's just a short
contract.
e.g., an eight year contract with a mutual opt out after four years is just a four year contract.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
yeah i don't understand a mutual opt out
You know what would be sweet? A player opt out if the player opts out HE has to pay the team.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
coulda sworn i saw somebody sign this year with a mutual $1m buyout.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
A mutual opt out
would be something that allows both parties to agree to part ways after so many years. A single opt out only requires one party not both to agree, otherwise the contract would continue
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
A mutual opt out doesn't make much sense to me.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
why not?
Does a mutual option make sense?
Basically it allows for a player like say Scott Rolen who would like out of his contract to ask the club to let him out, and then allows the club to release him yet not be liable for the remaining money on the contract.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
If Front-Loaded....
…the cowtract would pay him moore in his first 2-3 productive years, and less when he becomes a pork butt roast by year 8.
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Agreed, BUT
I just hope Mo has cast a wary eye in the direction of left field on the north side of Chicago.
I have to ask
How hard do you have to concentrate to include all the bovine-inspired typos in your post? It seems so natural that I can only assume you’ve got some keyboard macros set-up.
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Well, to be Honest....
…I do it all day at work to irritate my cow-workers. It’s what I does.
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I wonder...
if it’s a true 8 year offer. Strauss wrote that it’s the largest offer ever given a player, but a 6/$96M or 7/ $112M w/ a $5M buyout would be surpass the Pujols deal. I think we should all hope for this type of contract.
my speculation as well
is that it’s not a rock-solid 8yr/128 deal, but one with an option (or two? hopefully) at the end. they can be mutual, for all i care.
I do want Holliday back, pretty badly in fact, but hope 8 years is incorrect.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 15, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
what if they offer Albert this deal + $1?
would we be comfortable with the same deal for the Mang?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
honest question, I can't math this week.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
I think Holliday...
is starting to be a little undervalued in some circles. He is an elite talent – his three months in the AL seem to have really changed the way he is perceived.
We can’t know how he’ll age, but he’s not a Soriano/Wells/Carlos Lee type of hitter. His 9% career BB rate should allow him to be a more productive hitter as he ages. I concede that how he plays the field will be a concern during his mid-30s but he’s a good athlete (28 SBs in 2008) so I’m not overly worried. We can only hope he ages as well as Jimmy Baseball did.
I don't understand what people are expecting here.
I’ve got a market value 8 year contract for Holliday as worth 150M. Anyone who says that this offer is too much needs to provide a more detailed assessment of 1) club financials w/ Pujols or 2) their WAR assessment of Holliday. I think that either will show this is an eminently reasonable value.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
It's too many years, IMO.
Given Mo’s negotiating foil, I doubt that there is a club option for the seventh and eighth year, which would make it very, very reasonable. I don’t think Holliday’s agent is going to be reasonable, let alone very, very reasonable. The Teixeira comparison is a false one because Holliday plays a position that requires far more mobility than first base and the Cards don’t have the DH to hide an aging player who can still hit but is declining in the field.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 15, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you don't like...
the deal from the Cards stand point, why would you hope for an additional clause that benefits the player?
MB for LF in 2010!
I think,
because he is hoping we get four good years and then Holliday opts out, allowing us not to pay him $16MM in his Age 35, 36, and 37 seasons. At least, that is my impression.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Exactly.
I’m fine with the money, I just don’t want to be paying for his declining years.
Opt-outs can benefit teams, too.
But if he opts out...
then presumably the remainder of the contract he’s opting out of is a below market deal. Having a player opt out of a below market deal is only beneficial for the team if they’re in some kind of a financial crunch and they need to focus on saving money at the expense of building a good team. I don’t think the Cardinals will be in that situation in four years, and I can’t think of any other scenario where an opt-out benefits the team.
MB for LF in 2010!
His agent is Scott Boras.
He’ll opt out unless the contract is ridiculously back loaded and he’s hurt.
Exactly.
That’s why player opt-outs are bad for the club.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Or, they're good for the club
like when Drew opted out of his Dodgers contract to get more money and decline elsewhere.
How was that good for the Dodgers?
They had him signed for a 3/33 when his market value was 5/70
MB for LF in 2010!
b/c they're not paying for his declining years now and are able to use that freed up money elsewhere.
while opening up a spot for their young OFers.
Right
like buying out Jason Schmidt’s terrible contract, and paying Manny Ramirez about $8M more per year than the’s worth, and paying half of Juan Pierre’s contract to get rid of him.
FWIW, I’d much rather have Drew playing LF right now, while keeping the prospects I gave up to get Ramirez — considering I’d have an extra $8M to pay someone else. It might have worked out for the Dodgers if they didn’t throw their money around stupidly.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Oh, for sure.
It’s what you do when you get lucky that defines you….yet we still got swept out of the playoffs by that team. Shit.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Does that mean that we were just unlucky
for those three games?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.

The Holliday miscue was about as unlucky as one club can get.
Chris Carpenter turns in his worst performance of the season in Game 1.
The RISP performances were the definition of luck and a lack thereof.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Ah.
I kinda just chalked up the whole last three weeks as us coming back to earth with a thud.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
We thumped the shit out of their pitching staff
in the regular season, and we beat up their bullpen too. Kershaw was the only starter that really had our number, and we had him beaten in Game 2 if Holliday catches that ball. Just shitty, shitty luck, but I guess we had plenty of luck in 2006, and what goes around comes around.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I remember us beating them up rather soundly,
we also beat up on a lot of really bad teams until the end of the season. Carp got tired, Franklin came back off Cloud City and Piniero became Pinata. Holliday wasn’t going to hit at a 500 clip for the rest of the season. LOBsters were a problem for the whole month of Sept, which exposed the whole rest of the team not named Albert. Yadi hit everyball he took a swing at right at the middle infield, which was a year long problem.
The only “bad luck” I buy into is the Holliday nutshot.90 times out of 100 he makes that catch.
And Albert turned into a doubles hitter, when they would pitch to him.This was a monthlong problem as well.
I don’t see it as bad luck, just a confluence of underlying factors that came together at a rather inopportune time. Basically, all of weaknesses got exposed at once.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
many of which we saw coming
the national media were the only ones who saw us as favorites. probably because they didn’t watch the team lose its last six games.
SERIOUSLY.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
If Holliday only makes that play 90 ties out of 100. . .
he’s worse defensively than even I think.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I dug up his World Series
the Sauks basically hit it to left field in most of their scoring opportunities.
I found that… interesting. I’d like to watch those games, now. at the time being totally disinterested.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think I meant 900 out of 1000.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
90 out of 1000
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I was trying to play nice.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
The 5/55 he signed...
with the Dodgers would have run through 2009. When he opted out, he was looking at 3/33. During those three years with the Red Sox he produced over 10 WAR and was worth over $40 million, even with the lost time to injury. He may have blocked Ethier, but his presence on the roster may also have prevented the Pierre signing or the Ramirez trade.
In any case, this is just one example. I still think, aside from very rare scenarios that likely won’t apply to the Cardinals, opt-outs are only useful to the club if they save money up front.
MB for LF in 2010!
If Holliday is awesome for the next five years and wants to opt out to get more money elsewhere, I say thank you for the five awesome years and good luck getting old, then spend the money improving the team elsewhere.
by Mister Eff on Dec 15, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Which would you rather be:
- On the hook for a the full 8 years with a no-trade clause, OR
- On the hook for the first four years, with a player opt-out right before he begins his decline phase and becomes an injury risk?
I’ll take Option 1 please, hold the cream and sugar.
If what we’re so worried about is that last 3-4 years of the contract, why WOULDN’T we want him to opt out? We get him through the 2013 season, which will be the end of Waino’s contract, the point where Albert probably begins to decline, and the end of Rasmus’ cost controlled seasons. That’s the reason why we want him — to compete the next 3-4 seasons. Then he can opt out and the Cardinals can go another route — preferably with younger cost controlled talent procured while competing for NL titles those previous four seasons.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
You want Option 1 or Option 2?
I’ve spent most of the morning warming up to the opt-out, hoping that I get four or five years of Matt Holliday and then he opts out with Boras crying, “Go East, Young Aging Man!”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Option 1
unless we can sign him for 6Y$90M, in which case I’d rather have that. It just seems like that might be off the table.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
which makes sense to me, btw
It not being the steroid era and all anymore, I’m not too worried about letting guys in their mid-30s who are being paid 16 million go
Yes
I got them backwards — I had it differently before I got SBN’d and had to log back in.
Oops.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
This is what confused me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
"I thought it was something I said," Ryan told reigning beat reporter Goold.
“He wouldn’t take my sunflower seeds. He stopped playing Madden with us. Not even a chest-bump. Then he said he was trying to be a clubhouse cancer, and we were like, ohhhh. Then we jumped in the Man Stew and watched Idol.”
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree
- The remainder of A-Rod’s contract was not below market value, yet he still opted out. I wouldn’t presume this at all actually.
- You’re leaving out the part where greater value could be had on the market at the very same time as the opt out. Let’s say Allen Craig develops into a solid corner outfielder and Colby Rasmus becomes and elite CF. All of the sudden we may not need Holliday anymore at the cost we’re currently paying him — we might find a bargain FA on the market or a farm system guy to fill the other outfield spot and be better off spending money on a 3B or SP.
Flexibility is the name of the game — the opt out leaves Holliday with the flexibility if he wants to leave, but it also leaves the Cardinals with the flexibility to pay him less over the first four years of the contract. Mo would be stupid to front load the deal and then give him an opt-out — he should go with AAV through the whole deal and give Matty something to think about, or backload the contract with big money later on to make his decision really tough.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I agree with this,
which is why Theo Epstein’s OF maneuverings have frustrated me. I’m not kidding when I say he did almost exactly what I would have done: (1) acquire Jeremy Hermida (although, I might have just acquired Ryan Church instead); (2) Make a fair offer to my FA outfielder; (3) After he declines, acquire Mike Cameron and wave “goodbye” to said aging FA outfielder. (I’m leaving out John Lacket, but that’s only because I did a trip take at Legends last night when the “5 years, $85 million” flashed across the bottom of the screen.")
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'd rather have Hermida than Church
at least if I’m Theo:
- He’s 25, Church is 31.
- He’s still got some potential yet as a hitter — we’ve pretty much seen what Church can do.
- He’s slugged .500 at the big league level, Church hasn’t come close to that.
- His walk rate last year was near 12%, which makes him a pretty valuable player if he can become a 3TO guy.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
There's some merit...
in your second point, but it relies on chance to be beneficial to the club.
The first is simply wrong. When A-Rod opted out he was signed to a 3/81. He then resigned on the market for 10/275.
MB for LF in 2010!
Um -- again
what about 3Y$81M isn’t market value! Name a current position player that’s making $27M per season? Oh, right, there isn’t one. It’s not like he was guaranteed 10Y$275 when he opted out. He could have gotten less money, actually. What if the stock market had imploded in November of 2007?
Also, when you look at it, 10Y$275M is actually only $0.5M more AAV than what he was currently signed for, so he wasn’t “undervalued” in the market — he ended up signing for the exact same value.
You can make the argument that he wouldn’t have gotten a similar value contract three years later, and that’s a good argument to make, but you can’t argue that he did it because he was being paid less than market value when he was the top paid player in the game by a wide margin AND he ended up getting nearly the exact same value when he resigned.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Other considerations:
What if his steroid use had come out in 2007?
His milestone bonsuses.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't think we're...
on the same page with regard to valuing contracts. When a player – let’s take ARod – decides whether to opt-out of a contract or not, he looks at what he’s got and what he thinks he’ll get on the market and picks the larger of the two. That’s what he did – 10/275 is bigger than 3/81.
This is why opt-outs benefit players, if their contracts drop below market levels, they can go. Just like JD Drew voided a 3/33 for a 5/70 and Burnett voided a 2/24 for a 5/83. In all three of these instances, the teams would have been better off if those guys hadn’t left via the opt-out. Even if the Jays had wanted to shed salary at all costs, they could’ve traded Burnett because teams would have perceived significant surplus value in getting him for 2/24.
MB for LF in 2010!
I think that you are taking a generality and applying it to Holliday.
I don’t think you and fourstick necessarily disagree here. Obviously, A-Rod is able to get a longer and higher-dollar contract by opting out of his deal with the Yankees (even if the Yankees orgnaization was essentially negotiating with itself). That is better for A-Rod. It is also better for A-Rod to collect $27.5MM for the final two years of the deal if he were injured severely prior to those years, as opposed to the likely “make good” deal he would receive were he to hit the market.
With Holliday, what folks are saying is, that in a best-case scenario, we give him an opt-out after four years. Holliday rakes for the Cardinals for those four years. Then, just as he is about to enter his non-PED-prevented decline, he opts out and signs a long, high-dollar deal on the market. “Good-bye and good luck. Thanks for the memories.” is the sentiment from a lot of folks here. Basically, we get a four-year deal with great production and wave good-bye when he opts out for more money. This line of thinking seems to play down the injury risk, which the Cardinals shoulder exclusively.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Exactly
I’m basically saying that:
- The injury risk in the first four years is the same, opt out or not.
- The injury risk after the first four years is quite different if he’s no longer here, and is in, say, a Cub uniform or something.
- I think everyone would rather have him on a 4Y$64M contract, which is essentially what this is barring a devastating injury (which the contract will be insured against anyway), than on an 8Y$128M contract.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
You are making two assumptions that aren't valid. . .
1) that an opt-out contract would have the same AAV if it did not have an opt-out – it would have to be a really stupid GM that would give an opt out without getting something back in return
2) what you describe as “market level” isn’t the same thing as what a player is worth to every team
Opt outs are far more complex decisions than your typical player option year because the player is giving up something of far more speculative worth (i.e. 3-5 years at a relatively high salary vs. 1 year at a relatively high salary)
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think we're quite on the same page, actually
Holliday will be 33 years old by the 2013 offseason, when said opt-out could be exercised. Very few players are better than 4 WAR productive, outside of the steroid era, after their age 34 season. This would be an argument for a opt-out after 5 seasons, but the point is that we’re then not on the hook for his years of decline. Sure, he could be worth more than $16M in 2014 dollars even in his decline years, but we could take that $16M, add $4M to it, and go out and get another Matt Holliday type FA in 2014 who will produce 5-6 WAR for us over that time. You’re simply ignoring this option, and it’s a real option. Of any big market team, the Boston Red Sox understand this explicitly, which is why they don’t give out contracts over 5 years long.
Also:
- You won’t just be able to “trade” Holliday. He’ll have a no-trade clause, and he’ll get to pick where to go. We might actually be better off with the opt-out then trying to deal him.
- Holliday isn’t going to have a ton of negotiating leverage at age 33 or 34. So if the contract pays him accordingly, he’ll probably stay. It’s a risk for him to enter the market again in his twilight years, as more front offices will (hopefully) be embracing better evaluation tools in 4-5 years.
- If he gets hurt for the 3rd and 4th years, yes, we’re probably fucked — but no more fucked than we would be on a full 8 year contract with no opt out.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Furthermore
What about Option 1 is good for the ballclub? 8Y at $16M AAV per season, a no-trade clause, and no way out of the contract for either side?
If it takes 8Y to sign him, then I say give him the opt out after 4Y and negotiate a lower AAV. He’ll think he’s winning, but really, both sides win, especially if he opts out.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
which is why i argued for hermida last winter
could have been had cheap
which would have left us not in the current dialog, ie, talking about something else, like lackey
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
But market value is only half the equation.
Sure, if Matt Holliday is planning on opting out, it will likely be because he thinks he can get more on the open market. However, that doesn’t actually mean he’ll be worth even what he’s already getting, much less the new amount. How much he should actually be getting paid on the basis of his production and how much he’ll get from someone on the market aren’t necessarily the same things.
And even if he’s worth every penny of what he gets paid between now and then, an opt-out makes it less likely the Cardinals are going to have to pay for his decline years. Personally, I think an opt-out is a fantastic idea.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
Having a player signed...
to a below market deal is an asset b/c you can trade them for value. Now if they have an iron-clad no trade clause, you can’t, but I don’t think Holliday will. He might have a limited no-trade clause. Drew and Burnett didn’t have complete NTCs in their contracts; ARod did, so we’ll see.
The bottom line: it’s never a good thing to lose a player with a below market contract. Can anyone here provide an example of a player opting out of a contract and having that be a good thing for club?
MB for LF in 2010!
His declining years.....
May still very well be worth $16M, or less if the contract is front-loaded. If those last two years are for $12M, that’ll end up being a steal, in my opinion.
And if it isn’t, one reasonably bad contract shoudn’t kill us, for a year, or even two. We did okay with Glaus being out completely and being paid a fortune this year.
Matt Holliday. Nuff said.
by SoonerfanTU on Dec 15, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
i doubt anyone will
pay 16m for a dh when mh is 35, which is what he will be by then
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
At what rate do we expect his defense to decline?
I’m just curious not trying to comment on this.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
the overwhelming historical trend is that money is worth less in years further in the future.
If those last two years are for $12M, that’ll end up being a steal, in my opinion.
that sentence makes no sense. given a fixed $128M paid out, backloading makes more sense. if we pay less in year 8, we must be paying more in earlier years. the contract is going to make sense or not make sense as a whole; whether one individual year makes sense doesn’t describe whether we should make the deal, especially when it necessarily involves shifting money to the earlier years.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Basic economic theory, really.
It’s why anyone in financial planning will tell you 401K’s and the like are some of your best friends for long-term wealth building: the future is cheap.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
401k's and IRA's (specifically the Roth IRA)
Are good because they provide you tax free compound interest for your investments. You pay not taxes on the 401k until you pull it out, you pay taxes on the income you receive before investing it in the IRA, then only pay taxes on the gains as you pull it out when you are near retirement. A savvy middle class investor will have both a 401k, if available, and a ROTH IRA, maxing out the 401k to take advantage of the tax savings immediately, while investing some of their savings in the Roth to offset the taxes they will pay on the 401k after age 59.
This has nothing to do with the “future being cheap”; it has everything to do with the price of the same goods being more expensive in the future, due to inflation. In order to build wealth, you need compound interest to outperform the CPI’s inflation over the years that you have it invested.
You’ve kinda got this backwards. The future is always more expensive due to inflation, it’s never cheaper — if it is, then there is deflation going on, and that’s not good for any economy anywhere.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Compound interest
is the most powerful force in the universe.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
The future is cheap because you can buy it for pennies on the dollar now.
Not that things themselves are cheaper in the future, but that what you have now, if properly invested, will be worth more in the future. Thus, the future is cheaper than the present.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 17, 2009 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
Mo has to do something to make the STL offer stand apart.
I imagine if it is truly an offer for 8 years, the front 2-3 years are loaded, and then it evens out some. That in anticipation of an Albert raise.
I really don’t see a 4 year opt-out as being something that Holliday would take advantage of, UNLESS this contract is severly front-loaded.
Matt Holliday. Nuff said.
by SoonerfanTU on Dec 15, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
...
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2009/10/22/1095619/jason-bay-vs-matt-holliday-bill
7/108
And I came up with a similar valuation in a comment a while back.
8/150 is way too high
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Couple points
1) I don’t trust park adjustments for Colorado and Holliday takes a huge hit for that.
2) The 85% playing time adjustment seems conservative given Holliday’s record of health and lack of any (known) lingering conditions.
3) I absolutely detest the AL/NL alleged discrepancy and any adjustments based on that. I think it’s a vast overstatement of disparity and one that is difficult to adjust for on an individual basis given an individual’s specific skillsets.
4) devil_fingers shows a projection for 4.3 WAR with a valuation of 7 years and 122M. So 3 runs makes a 14M dollar difference in total valuation. I trust that the Cardinals have metrics that are either a) better or b) different to validate a discrepancy based on a 3 run projection difference for 2010.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
A couple rebuttles
I don’t trust park adjustments for Colorado and Holliday takes a huge hit for that.
On what basis? Most people believe that Holliday should be penalized much more given his huge home/road split. The park adjustments d_f’s uses are 5 year and regressed, I believe. Their about the most conservative park adjustments you could get for Holliday.
The 85% playing time adjustment seems conservative given Holliday’s record of health and lack of any (known) lingering conditions.
WAR is projected out to 150 games. 85% playing time has him at 130. That’s a little bit too conservative given Holliday’s health record, but it also factors in possible injuries. If it’s too conservative than it’s only by 5 games or so.
I absolutely detest the AL/NL alleged discrepancy and any adjustments based on that. I think it’s a vast overstatement of disparity and one that is difficult to adjust for on an individual basis given an individual’s specific skillsets.
There has been a boatload of studies that suggest that the AL is far superior than the NL. The simple fact that, despite having the DH, the AL has the same league ERA as the NL should be enough to show that they are a better pitching league.
devil_fingers shows a projection for 4.3 WAR with a valuation of 7 years and 122M. So 3 runs makes a 14M dollar difference in total valuation. I trust that the Cardinals have metrics that are either a) better or b) different to validate a discrepancy based on a 3 run projection difference for 2010.
One of those projections is for James, the other is for d_f. They effectively represent the low and high ends of Hollidays possible worth. 8/150 is well past the high end.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
1) I don’t trust them on the fact that they are notoriously difficult to apply with any degree of accuracy especially in the specific (aggregate is easier). Holliday was in the top 20 last year for true distance of homeruns according to hit tracker. His power wasn’t a mirage of Colorado. The home/road split is garbage because you’ve argued against it yourself — I’m not a believer in the split so unless you’re suddenly advocating it, let’s leave that aside.
2) 150 games is a choice not some industry standard. I think that’s too conservative but that’s purely an opinion.
3) There hasn’t been a “boatload” there’s been a handful. I shouldn’t have even brought it up though because it doesn’t penalize Holliday in this instance as much as it rewards Bay.
4) 8/150 isn’t “well past the high end” because even slight valuation changes in his 2010 worth have repercussions on every year following. A 3 run valuation difference between two projection systems resulted in a 14M total salary difference.
I’ve got Holliday as a 5 WAR player moving forward — just 7 runs higher — but it makes a huge difference in the final number I come up with.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Also
I’m using $5M/WAR going forward. I’m not an economist so I have no idea if that’s what the market will be running to. The 5 WAR valuation is the important part, imo, though.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
position players who produced 5 WAR or better in their mid 30's last year
ichiro (36)
jeter (35)
d. lee (34)
that’s a pretty short list (i may be missing some people based on wrong perceptions of age). as far as i can tell, everybody else is either under 30 or just over it (30, 31, 32). there’s a real chance holliday is more a 3 to 4 WAR player in a few years.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I have a 5 run aging adjustment built in every year past 2010
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
At some point
arguing about home/road splits across a league average should defer to this actual player.
Simply put, Matt Holliday is a great player in Coors Field (357/422/643), and merely a good player away from there (295/354/475). No small sample-size issues to worry about there, either. Certainly, there are issues with extrapolating Holliday’s road numbers while Coors was his home field to being his home numbers at another park, particularly one like Busch where he has historically hit well. . . but it ain’t 68 points of OBP and a whopping 138 points of slugging.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
The Coors Field issue for Holliday isn't really HRs, FWIW
the issue is that Coors’ huge expanse of OF inflates batting average, particularly the old, pre-humidor Coors.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
For which Holliday was NOT around, for the most part
Coors Field plays much more like a normal field now and has for several years.
"Haywood leads the league in all offensive categories, including nose hair. When this guy sneezes, he looks like a party favor." - Harry Doyle
by Futility Infielder on Dec 15, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
So Rob Neyer just posted an article about Strauss' article
The thing I don’t get is Neyer is suggesting that Chone Figgins is as good as Evan Longoria and Ryan Zimmerman. I’m not even sure he’s all that much better than Beltre.
That's odd
Could have sworn I linked it.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Baxter, you know I don't speak Spanish!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
what? you ate the whole wheel of cheese?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I immediately regret this decision
to read this subthread.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I love lamp
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 15, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
do you really love the lamp
or are you just saying that?
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
stop toying with lamp's emotions!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
By wOBA, at least
They’re pretty comparable. In a WAR valuation, I see Zimmerman being the most valueable, followed by Figgins, followed by Longoria, in terms of what they’ve done in the past.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Longoria is the most “valuable” player in baseball right now, because of his WAR value in relation to what he’s being paid.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I don't have a problem with Longoria
My problem is Figgins. The guy is a speedster infielder on the decline who has never and will never be considered an elite player. He’s nowhere close to the value of Zimmerman or Longoria let alone their talent level.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I think you are underrating Figgins.
His defense at third base is good—and seems to be getting better if I put too much stock in UZR—and his OBP is, as well. Presumably that ability will age relatively well, even if his ability to steal a base does not.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think Neyer is overvaluing Figgins' 2009 season
His average WAR was closer to 3-4 which puts him well below the Holliday crowd let alone the Zimmerman/Longoria crowd.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
You are massively underrating Chone Figgins
His walk rate and defense alone make him as valuable as either of those other guys right now, and that’s before you factor in his ability to steal bases. His defense at third is better than Longoria’s and probably not quite as good as Zimmerman’s, but his OBP is better than both, and that’s a very big deal.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yes it is a big deal
But do you honestly think Chone Figgins is legitimately one of the 2nd tier greats in baseball? The guy has only had one year with a WAR over 4.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Part of being great is consistency
Otherwise Kent Bottenfield would have a statute outside the Angels’ stadium.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Argh
Law on the brain. Statue not statute.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Actually
I think there is an Orange County ordinance that prohibits the Angels from ever acquiring Kent Bottenfield again. So there is that. It is an interpretation issue as to whether the ordinance also prohibits them from signing Todd Wellemeyer and Joel Piniero. It could be tied up in court for years.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
How has no one rec'd this?
That’s brilliant.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
Missed it the first time through
Problem solved…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
As funny as this post sounds
It is actually not too far from the truth. I lived in the OC for around ten years. The mall in Newport Beach is called “facist island” instead of fashion island for a reason.
BTW, I still wear my California Angels cap occasionally when I am not donning Cardinals gear.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Don't call it that.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Dec 16, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't call what?
Is the antecedent of it “the OC”, “fashion island”, or California Angels? What’s the offending term?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
So consistently improving your walk rate by 2% a year
for your entire career doesn’t count for anything? How about consistently being good at defense at multiple positions? Or consistently stealing 34+ bases a year?
His defense at 3B has gotten better over the last couple of seasons, and his walk rate has been above 10% each of the last three years. If you put him at the top of your order, he’s going to be on base and be a threat to steal, score from first on a double, etc. He’s a pretty valuable player right now, the problem is that Zimmerman and Longoria will be more valuable 3-4 years from now, imo, as they will be in their prime and Figgins will be past his.
Everyone says how great Jose Reyes was before this injury plagued season, yet Figgins is a similar offensive player who plays good defense at 3B.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
You never answered my question
Would you put him among the greats of baseball right now? I never said the guy wasn’t good. He’s just not consistently 5/6 WAR good like Longoria will be. Figgins took years to become the way he is. Longoria started off that good.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think anyone categorized him as among "*the* greats of baseball right now."
Neyer certainly did not. He reserved the top tier of “superstars” for Utley, Hanley, Mauer, and Pujols. He categorized Holliday, Figgins, Longoria, and Zimmerman among the second tier.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Actually
He put Holliday in the third tier heh
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Apparently the second tier is reserved solely for third baseman?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Actually, I think he might have been looking at position.
Two LFers and a 1B/3B in the third tier, three awesome 3B defenders with good bats in the second tier. If he had expanded that tier, I assume he would have started listing CFers like Kemp or Gutierrez.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Slugging LFers are certainly easier to find.
Especially compared to a SS (Hanley), C (Mauer), and 2B (Utley) in the top tier and the third basemen he mentions in the second tier. Perhaps what he implies, and justifiably so, is that LFers who can hit are less valuable than third basemen, shortstops, and catchers who can hit like LFers.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Exactly.
That doesn’t mean Figgins over Holliday/Crawford makes sense, but at least he had a system or something. He also failed to include any pitchers or take into account contract status (which vaults Longoria to the top spot pretty easily).
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I agree with Neyer
in that I think he’s comparable to those guys at his position. I think Holliday is a better hitter, but he doesn’t play a position as scarce as Figgins, and he’s not as good defensively at his position as Figgins.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Longoria hits better, fields better and has more upside
And that’s comparing him to Figgins’ contract year career year.
Not afraid to nitpick
...
His defense at third is better than Longoria’s
That’s laughable. Longoria has a career +19.6 UZR/150 at third, Figgins is at a cool +8.0.
Longoria is also 10 years younger.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
If you totally buy UZR, which I don't
and I’m not getting into that discussion. I don’t think that Figgins’ range is encapsulated well enough by UZR.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Okay, how about the fans scouting report?
2008
Longoria 3rd, Chone 18th
2009
Longoria 4th, Rollins 5th.
Besides, UZR is solid over 2 years, what possible reason do have to think it would specifically underrate Figgins?
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
From what I see online
Longoria is only 7 1/2 yrs. younger, unless you’re not buying Figgins’ stated birth date as accurate.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know how you can say a player is one the decline
When he had his best year in 2009
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
You're right
But the guy is getting up there in age.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Which is why his walk rate is so important
You generally don’t lose your plate discipline as you get older, so as long as he’s walking at a clip that’s 12% of greater and playing above average defense, he’s probably going to be a pretty valuable player.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Longoria has a comparable walk percentage at 11%
He isn’t a slouch in the field, and he has power Figgins will never have. Also, he did it all at a much younger age.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
He will be better than Figgins in a couple of years. That said, though, Figgins is a better player right now. WAR bears this out even if you average it over the last 3 seasons.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Longoria has a higher WAR total over the past 3 years
Despite only playing in two of them!
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Figgins has had ONE good year!
In 07 and 08, he was a 3 WAR player. He puts up a fluky 16.3 UZR and a .359 BABIP and suddenly he’s as good as Longoria and Zimmerman?
Neyer always seems to overrate guys coming off of career years.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Whoah
Figgins: average bat, +5 defense, 34
Longoria: above average bat, +15 defense, 25
Zimmerman: above average bat. +15 defense, 27 (I think)
3 year WAR totals:
Zimm: 14.4
Longoria: 12.5 (in only 2 seasons worth of play)
Figgins: 11.6
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
They are COMPARABLE PLAYERS
Thanks. I’m not going to bother defending myself or Neyer when that’s all that he was saying.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Neyer said that they were in the same teir of players
You agree.
I disagree. Figgins is formerly a 2-3 WAR player, coming off of a 6 WAR season powered by a fluke UZR rating and .359 BABIP.
Longoria has been worth 6 WAR in each of his first two years – he’s one of the best players in the game. Zimmerman has been worth more than 4 WAR in 3 of his first 5 years playing the game.
Fans WAR projections?
Zimmerman: 6.4
Figgins: 4.3
Longoria: 7.2
They are not comparable.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
figgins is apparently 31, not 34.
Is there a dispute about his age?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
whoa
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I am of two minds
1) First, I think that the $16M AAV is about right for an 8-year deal, if you are fairly pricing in risk. At 8 years, $150M (an AAV of $18+M), I don’t think that you are pricing in enough risk. Looking at the last 3 years, Holliday’s value is rapidly declining, both with the bat and the glove. Granted, his “peak” was high; he was an 8 WAR player in 2007, 6.3 in 2008, and 5.7 in 2009. Remember too, though, that WAR is not park-adjusted, which cuts both ways. It means that he was never an 8 WAR player at sea level, but it also means that his offensive decline is less precipitous than it otherwise appears at first glance. I don’t like 8 year deals, and I have stated previously that I think that Holliday’s defense is in the process of falling off a cliff. I know the numbers don’t bear out that Holliday’s defense is declining that precipitously, but they do bear out that his defensive skills are declining. And the naked eye (mine at least) sees a guy that gets bad jumps and takes odd routes to the ball. I also think that he is of a body type that will not age well. All of that being said, if I’m Mo, at $16M AAV, I might bite for 8 years. Holliday is probably a pretty good bet to be a 5 win player for the first 2-3 years of the deal, and maybe a 3-4 win player for the next 2-3 years. Add in the possibility that the value of a win will continue to increase, and I don’t think it’s a bad risk to take.
2) However, at some point, you have to ask if it might be worth spinning the tires on Jason Bay. I know he is about as popular as Osama bin Laden on here, but if you could get him for 3-4 years, $12M AAV or so (remember the Red Sox offered him 4 @ $14M reportedly, but they are probably no longer in the market after they Cameron’d up), wouldn’t you have to consider it? He’s Chris Duncanish in the field (although I suspect he looks better in the field than Dauncan did), but offensively, he’s a reasonable facsimile of Holliday, and you can argue that he’s a better bet offensively going forward than Holliday. His walk rates and ISO are actually better than Holliday’s, and consistently better over the last 4 seasons.
Caveat: it appears that the Mets are in on Bay at 4 years $15Mish AAV. I don’t do that, but I might see if he was interested in taking slightly less so as not to have to play for the Mets.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions
I think you spin the tires on Bay...
if you can get him for half or less than half of what Holliday costs. He’ll probably get a fifth year though, at which point he becomes less attractive.
MB for LF in 2010!
I thought one "kicked tires?"
At least, that’s what I do on the car lot. Have I been doing it wrong? Should I be spinning them?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
it kicks up the grit?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Theres a lotion joke in here somewhere
But in deference to the time of day I’ll 4bear
in the eleventh hour
of waiting for joe strauss non-news, such jokes are appropriate.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Good to know.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Bay is over 4/64 at this point and looking for 5 years....
And I’ve seen nothing to indicate that he would “take less” so as not to play for the Mets.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Nice insights on TLR...
But don’t understand how Matt Morris can be thrown in the “failed young pitchers” camp. He had a perfectly respectable and good career.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2009 10:55 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Decent OBP I guess
Better than Gary Mathews I suppose
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
They are desperate for a leadoff hitter
Have been for a while now. So I guess their outfield is Pierre/Rios/Quentin with Jones off the bench in case Rios sucks again.
As long as his last year's OBP was .365
and he has no power, I guess.
or maybe Quentin DHs
with Rios or Pierre in LF, other in CF, and Jones in RF?
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 15, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
If Jones show up to spring training and magically rips the cover off the ball (hahah)
then that’s a possibilitiy.
Hmm, I guess I should also keep in mind that Kenny/Ozzie have said they aren’t against putting the leadoff guy in the DH position.
I can totally see Jones hitting better than Pierre, especially in the AL
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
and reply fail?
I quit
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 15, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Reply Fail?
It’s like your trying to steal my gimmick or something.
Winter Warm-Up
I’ve never been to this event and the little kid inside me who still loves baseball cards, autographed baseballs, and the like is tempting me to go this year. I’m pretty ignorant about the event. Basically, I want to meet Ozzie Smith, my childhood hero. Does he attend annually? If so, what are the odds that I would get to meet him? Does anyone recommend going or not going? I’m going to drive five hours for the event.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
If you don;t want to pay to go
you can volunteer to work it: volunteers@stlcardinals.com
Volunteers Jobs* Include: Admission & Autograph Ticket Sales, Will Call, Sales Line Attendants, Event Information, Event Host, and the Cardinals Care Store. **We will try our best to meet your request for a specific area; however, assignments will be based on availability.
What to expect from the day: Winter Warm-Up/Cardinals Care T-Shirt, Volunteers hours 7:45am-5:00pm (entire day), Free parking or Metrolink pass, and Breakfast, Lunch, snacks, and drinks.
If you decide to go, let me know
I might be interested in driving down with you and we can split the gas. If that’s ok with you of course….
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I will.
That would be fine with me. We will have to discuss the autograph schedule, if we do.
My priorities:
(1) Ozzie Smith
(2) Willie McGee
(3) Adam Wainwright
(4) Colby Rasmus
Obviously, Pujols trumps all. If one of us were to win the raffle to get his autograph, that would have to be the central consideration in any planning.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Of course......
I also have family that live in the area, so we could save some coin on a hotel room as well since we could stay there. We can kick around the details if we decide to go.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
IMPORTANT WINTER WARM UP QUESTION!
If you get Pujols autograph do you get to shake his hand?
I know it sounds silly, but that really would be important because I would to have someone there take my picture with him. If I could get an autograph AND a photo standing across the table from pujols or shaking his hand that would be totally worth it.
Just stay away from the elbow
STAY AWAY FROM THE ELBOW!
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Dec 15, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+6
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
+205
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
Check out this Gem!!!
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
Michael Taylor Will Be Traded For Brett Wallace
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 15 at 11:04am CST]
The Blue Jays will trade outfielder Michael Taylor to the A’s for third base prospect Brett Wallace, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney and Jerry Crasnick (via e-mail).
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 15, 2009 12:05 PM EST reply actions
Wallace
must be a clubhouse cancer with all of these trades already!
Toronto was rumored to have a liking to Wallace even when we drafted him
leading some of our posters to opine for a Walrus for Halladay exchange. This just means it is true and remember the Jays can always play him at 1B or DH in addition to 3B. And no EE is in no way a 3B except in name only.
Blue Jays drafted Wallace in 2005
Wallace chose to go to school instead
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 15, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
So, in a way...
Wallace really is going to be the eventual replacement for Scott Rolen. Funny how things work like that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
That means Shane Peterson will have never been born!
by Mister Eff on Dec 15, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love this thread.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Time paradox!
To avoid destroying the fabric of the universe they’re just going to have to give Wallace back to us for free.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
they're Canadians
I’m not sure they care about the fabric of the universe, with all their health care and poutine.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
After all, they're not our friends, buddy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
im not your buddy, guy...
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Im not your guy, friend?
its been a while
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Finally
a good excuse to post this.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
By the way
I’m staking claim as to that being my thing. gdm I will no longer steal your panda thing that you already stole.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Radical
thats the thing that I say!
(im sure ive butchered that)
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
thank you, all i ask is you ask & you can have almost anything of mine
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i feel that you should have replied this picture

"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
ahem
i feel that you should have replied with this picture
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
um, that man isn't wearing any pants
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Thanks for drawing my attention to that
f’in gdm
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
sorry, it was the first thing my eyes went to
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I'd keep that info to myself...
just sayin.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
i'm having such a gay day
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I think it's one of those traditional japanese underwear thingies
Anyone ever seen footage of that Japanese festival where a bunch of dude ride huge logs down a steep hill? It’s hilarious. I’m amazed they so many of them survive it. Hundreds and hundreds of Japanese men wearing those exact loincloth thingies milling around watching each other riding gigantic cylinders of wood. It’s amazing enough without the unintentional (I assume) homoeroticism.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
an Asia-based poster could probably say more than I could
It’s probably more penis worship than anything else. They’ve got fewer scruples about nudity, too — almost all those were introduced by the U.S. and the West. Especially in a harvest / planting festival = fertility.
They’d probably say Matt Holliday angered the gods somehow.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 16, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I know all that, don't worry (because I'm a nerd like that)
But to a western viewer it is totally going to seem homoerotic, that’s all I meant… should have clarified. I do that a lot.
And besides, upon some further review I think I might be mixing up different festivals. I think the log thing is too cold for them to be walking around in fundoshis.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
it's kind of like the Wrigley Field troughs.
that’s traditional too.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 16, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Urine is usually sterile, at least
So I doubt the urinal troughs are killing many people with disease. The log thing, on the other hand… man that is scary.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
you didn't read the piece on BCB then
I’ll spare you the trip…. but not much else:
For the uninitiated, the troughs are a sort of rough ritual at Wrigley Field. Between innings, men jostle each other as they do their business into the troughs quickly before returning to watch the game. There are no privacy screens. No crumbled ice over air fresheners. No tuxedoed gentlemen with hand towels and breath mints, ready to brush the lint off your shoulders. In a ballpark lousy with yuppies, there is nothing yuppie about the troughs. They are the great equalizer.
I have no frickin idea if they’re joking anymore.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 16, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Probably not
my buddy’s got run from BCB twice for calling Wrigley a dump. They take their time machine stadium way too seriously over there.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I love this video
It’s up there with Press Hop in my opinion.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Damnit
I didn’t know that you had posted that before. Namely cause I wasn’t in that thread. Sorry.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I only brought it up because of
the subthread. It was too good not too. I stole it from youtube. It’s the internet. It’s all stolen.
* is an Asshat
I know
but I was still in the wrong. I should just stay to my strong suits like coming up with Albertofstan.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I doubt this
I would bet he ends up at 1B for them, unless David Cooper actually starts hitting.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yeah, but it was funnier my way!
Good point though. Do you (or anyone) happen to know what he primarily play in the minors with Oakland?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
He was a 3B in Oakland
They would have been stupid to move him if they were considering trading him, because his value would have gone down as a 1B.
The fact that the A’s are moving him kinda confirms to me that he’s not going to play an effective defensive third base in the major leagues. The A’s value defense probably more than the Cardinals do.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Which is why they traded Holliday to us.
Thanks, I’ll be here all week. Tip your waitstaff.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
They wanted our best prospect
And Wallace was it. Now they’re going to get back the Phillies best outfield prospect in return for him. Seems like a smart move to me.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Absolutely it was. .
see, I was making the joke about Holliday’s defense being worse than the Walrus’s, which, come to think of it given the magniture of the offer that Joe Strauss apparently made to Holliday in his dreams, isn’t all that funny.
Never mind.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I read offer as "overture"
…that’s not funny either.
[cue the dreams discussion from a day or so ago]
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Ahhh...I missed that sarcasm I guess
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
well apparently they originally drafted him in 2005
I guess it was just fate.
this hurts, we could have had Roy instead of Matt
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
at least it's looking like matt may be cheaper
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Well that didn't last long.
Dont the Jays have Edin Encarcion at 3rd already?
Bloody Crap
I didnt hit reply and Im going to get bumped down the page again…….Son of a b****
You seem to have a serious problem with that.
You really need to head to the commenting cage and get a couple good hacks in before you come back tomorrow.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
you hit dingers with the reply button.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
click righty.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Wally Berger
was fantastic after his age 29 season, never healthy again, and out of the game five years later.
He’s been Holliday’s most similar by age the last four seasons.
Obviously, not predictive or anything. Just throwing it out there.
Holliday has been relatively healthy over the course of his career though hasnt he?
I can’t remember him having any serious injuries that jump to mind.
Of course, he was still awesome when he did play.
He just only played 2/3s of a season three of the next four years.
I'm willing to bet Wally Berger is healthier than Mark Mulder right now.
by Mister Eff on Dec 15, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Mark Mulder is gonna be a Brewer
Gonna do wonderful things you’ll see. You’ll all see. mwahahahaha
we cannot possibly have as many memes as the A's blog
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/12/15/1201232/a-hazy-shade-of-winter-meetings
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Is it sad
I want to join up to be part of that magic?
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
you did say your upside was with memes...
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I did?
I know I’ve successfully gotten one off the ground. Apparently our farm system has lowered expectations everywhere…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
well thanks
I was already a little iffy about an 8 year deal. Now im absolutely petrified.
hmm... could it be...
A source familiar with the talks tells ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick that “nothing is imminent.” The source says Boras and Holliday “are still looking for something that they’re not finding.”
PIES?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Suckers
A 30 year 3 trillion dollar deal? I mean crap if they think anyone else is gonna offer 8 years there El Loco.
Moz dont be a retard
You gonna take advice from someone who slapped dee Barnes?
In fact
this should already be off the table as far as I’m concerned. The market of competitive teams who are even speculated to be INTERESTED in Holliday is dwindling. I doubt they could find someone to give him 6Y$100M right now.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Agreed.
8/128 seemed to be Mo’s version of the brass-tacks take-it-or-leave-it offer. If he’s leaving it, then he can go get fucked because there are few other teams that seem interested, and zero at that price.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
That makes me wonder about the possibility of the Cards offering a smaller deal if Holliday rejects this one
and then goes on to be disappointed by the rest of the market?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You might eat those words Hazel...
the Angels have to be feeling a little desperate at this point, and the Yanks can move on a dime. The Mets are also there…
MB for LF in 2010!
I would love to eat those words,
if it means one of those teams gives Holliday the Alfonso Soriano deal part two and we can spend the money we save on Yu Darvish, Aroldis Chapman, Brett Myers, Chien-ming Wang, Matt Capps, Austin Kearns, etc.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Yu Darvish?
You’re dreaming — the posting fee for him will pale in comparison to what Dice-K’s was. Aroldis Chapman - I’m not sure I want a Cuban (read: may be older than he says he is) lefty who is going to cost me $15M$20M over a couple of seasons, but I’d like to at least be in the hunt.
I still think they can sign Holliday and afford Wang and Capps if they want them. Kearns might be available on a minor league contract considering how bad he was last year and how good the utility OF market has gotten with Church and Kelly Johnson entering it.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Holliday is so much better...
than Soriano in every way… that comparison doesn’t hold much water.
I don’t think VEBers have come to grips with just how wretched our offense is and will be without Holliday or something similar. We’re headed south of 700 runs scored and we will not pitch our way to 90 wins. We’re risking another Cubs title here. If we can just hold them off for another year they will be well and truly over-the-hill in 2011 and no threat whatsoever. At that point we can skimp our way to 88 win seasons, but in 2010 it’s going to take more than that.
MB for LF in 2010!
Bah.
I dispute that our offense will be that bad w/o Holliday.
We are getting rid of over 1600 ABs worth of sub-700 OPS “offense” in the persons of Duncan, Ankiel, Los Dos Greenes, the injured version of Mark of Rose, and (we all hope) Thursty Joe. And that’s out of a total 5400ish ABs. And that offense scored 730 runs.
Addition by subtraction is a powerful beast.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
We don't have much in terms of the "addition"
side of that coin yet though, do we?
We replace Thurston and DeRosa with Freese currently — that’s probably little more than a wash. We currently are replacing Duncan, Ankiel, and Holliday (3 wins in two months, mind you) with, um, Allen Craig and/or John Jay. Gulp. Khalil Greene didn’t play much for us last year, so we’re really not replacing him at all — Boog was the starting SS for most of the last 3 months of the season.
We’ve replace Piniero with Penny, and we have two starters coming off career seasons in our 1-2, and regression is a powerful bitch as well, my friend.
Currently, I hate our offense. Hate it. There’s one guy guaranteed to have a better than .340 wOBA ON THE ENTIRE TEAM. You don’t win titles with that type of offense no matter how good your pitching is.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
+1
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
agreed.
Currently, our offense sucks unless Freese (completes AA and) dukes it out with Craig for rookie of the year.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
When I first read that, my thought was
“I thought he already played in Memphis, why does he need to go back to Springfield?”
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
yep.
Holliday (or someone of his offensive caliber) is a near-necessity for this team.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Well,
Lugo > Thursty Joe and his brother Greene and his other brother Greene
Ideally, age and fatherhood should make Cory Razzmatazz v1.0 better than Corky Ramos v1.0.
As for the OF, I have to believe that even in the absence of a Holliday, that one of Xavier Nady/Ryan Church/Adam Dunn will be better than Chrick Dunkiel.
Ryan Ludwick is a question mark, certainly, and regression to the mean could be the mortal enemy of Brendan Ryan and, to a lesser extent, Yadi.
The Mang is the Mang, though, and, much as I hate to admit it, Skip is Skip (6ly, other than perhaps Adam Dunn, has there been a more consistent hitter than Skip for the last three seasons)?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
When Colby hits those walkoffs he should be all like "Call me Daddy-Raz."
But in all seriousness, I have to say I think we certainly need to improve the offense over last year.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
FYI the competing meme is BOOM
hauer
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Daddy Boomhauer.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Dec 15, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
cmonnahdaddyboomauergottabuyabigdingdangolepileadiapers.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 15, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Lugo?
We’re talking a minor 1 win upgrade there probably, at MOST. If Boog regresses to total suckitude with the bat and Tony puts him at SS, he’s Khalil Greene 2.0. Hopefully this does not happen.
I am predicting a big breakout for Rasmus as well, but I certainly am not expecting him to be a replacement for Matt Holliday.
Dunn is a 1 win downgrade over LF last year. Nady hasn’t played baseball in 18 months and is coming off his second surgery, and Ryan Church is a platoon candidate at the most.
I would expect a bit of a rebound from Ludwick, but he’s probably around league average going forward for a corner outfielder. Might pick up a win to a win and a half.
Even with Holliday, you can’t predict the Cardinal offense to be much better than league average, and that’s with two of the best hitters in the National League playing on the same team. If you add Holliday and Rasmus and Ludwick both improve, you’ve got those four ~.360 wOBA hitters that I keep trying to explain are a necessity in order to do any kind of postseason damage.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I don't see how Boog could regress to suckitude
He’s learning how to hit dingers as we speak.
Plus, last year was his first full year in the majors with regular plate appearances. I feel like last year is a better representation of his offensive skills.
But he needs to steal moar bases.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
the problem is your man has an offensive value highly dependent on how many
balls find gaps and how many find gloves. he could hit .250 or .340 for reasons just not in his control. now, if mac can teach him a little more patience at the plate and how to make more solid contact with more line drives, he could get more reliable.
he’s not a bad hitter, just very luck-driven.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
his GRIT should carry him through.
But I agree. I’m hoping Mac can help him increase his OBP.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Yeah, his .335 BABIP is bound to regress some
All we can do is hope that Big Mac instills patience in hitters
Are there any studies that prove that hitters with better patience also slug a higher %? Intuitively it makes sense, because the more patient you are, the better chance you swing a pitch you can drive, but I don’t know if the data corroborates that.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I've wondered about that for a long time
Now we just need to sit and wait for someone to conveniently link us to an old hardball times or baseball prospectus article or something. Works every time!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I mean
I could do a simple regression with OBP as the independent variable and SLG as the dependent variable
But I just got done with my last final, so I’m really not going to do that. It wouldn’t take very long, though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I believe that this has been proven
although I’m not sure it’s going to have a huge effect. And no, I don’t have a link.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
From 1995-2008
Among players with at least 400 AB, OBP has a .463 R-Squared with slugging. P Value of <2.2e-16.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
That's better correlation than I thought there would be.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Sounds about right
It doesn’t mean being more patient leads to more power, I personally would say it means having more power means pitchers throw you less strikes→higher OBP.
Not afraid to nitpick
Well, there is a lot of selection bias
Players that qualify for that have at least 400 at bats, meaning they are generally good players. Those players tend be be above average in both categories.
The question is whether or not power is actually a positive indicator of patience. A simple regression won’t tell you that.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
how about p/pa?
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
I only have pitch info from 07-09
And it’s a lot harder to calculate slugging using Pitch f/x data.
I’ll take a look at it later tonight, and fanshot it.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
mh plugs only one hole
we have several holes to fill to become a productive offense
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
okay
the twss baiting is getting a little out of control
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the danger in that
is the Yankees sweeping in and sticking it to us.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
After all
The Yankees were out of the Mark Teixeira market because they signed Nick Swisher to play 1B for them, if I recall…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
They traded for Swisher to a be a bat and utility defender
because he could play both corner OF spots and 1B above average, and hold down CF at a slightly below average rate if they needed him to. They were never out of the Teixeira market, otherwise Teixeira would be in Boston right now making just a tad less than what the Yanks are paying him — he’d just have fewer years on the deal.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Right
But I read plenty of comments from random people around the web assuming that the Swisher move meant Teixeira was going to end up in Boston. The Yankees almost never have to save money, that is the lesson.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I just don't think that's much of a danger to be honest
It doesn’t seem like they were big players for Lackey, who I think they need more than Holliday, and they seem content with re-signing Damon to a 2 year deal to play LF. They already made the move for Granderson to play CF or maybe even LF for them — I just don’t see a real strong need to plunk down an 8Y deal for Holliday.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I'm okay with that.
8 years and 130 Mil.(reported by Bernie) should be the limit the Cardinals offer him. If he rejects it we should move on and spend the money else where. If he signs for less Boras looks like a fool and Holliday takes the hit for it. If he signs for more he is out of our price range.
Eh.
If he signs for that, Boras looks like a fool, considering he turned down more money with the Rockies a little over a year ago.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
thats ~50M more than the rox offered, isn't it?
They offered 4/72 with a $12M option year. They wouldn’t even give him 5 years garuanteed, or a no-trade clause.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
or they could sweep in, dump Damon
and we end up with … Damon?
who is also represented by Boras. EFF!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I really hate Damon
I pray we dont get him
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
ditto
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
don't you mean saving DeWitt, MO & Co from themselves?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Well, if you give Holliday an opt out
then Boras might as well look for something shorter with a higher yearly average.
that's what she said.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Um, no
That’s not even close to being true. If he gets an 8 year deal, he’s at least guaranteed to earn that entire 8 years. So unless he can find someone who’s going to give him 4Y$128M (highly unlikely unless Tom Hicks is drunk AND high) than your line of reasoning doesn’t make any sense. If he can’t get $128M guaranteed from anyone else, then the opt out really doesn’t have any effect on his decision to take a shorter term deal, it just gives him the right to test the waters again if he’s a productive player at 33.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
What I had in mind
was perhaps a two or three year contract at $18-20, if he find it, and if Holliday is sufficiently confident that he will continue to be productive. In 2 or 3 years, the economy will probably be much better and salaries could become higher. And, we don’t know when the opt out would occur with the Cards. I agree if it is after 3 years, but if it is after five, then a much shorter deal viewed as temporary makes some sense.
If he wanted that deal
he’s still be in Colorado, because that’s what they offered him. He’s looking for a longer deal, and he may want an opt-out now because he’s not getting the AAV he thought he was going to be getting on the market when he turned down the deal from the Rockies.
Basically, the guy wants the contract that’s going to keep him afloat the rest of his life and for as many guaranteed seasons as he can find.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
But
the economy is different now than when he turned down Colorado. At that time, he could look forward to continually rising salaries, and the possibility of a really big payday – it appears that is not going to happen (a lack of perfect foresight). In other words, he might accept the Colorado offer if presented to him now. But my option is a way of perhaps getting that type of contract a couple of years down the road. As you point out, it is certainly risky for him, but so is a lower offer from the Cards where he couldn’t opt out for four or five years (when he will be mid 30s). And, who knows if anyone would even pay him a lot more per year on a short basis. Just a possibility.
He's just basically said whenever he's been asked
that he’s looking for a long term commitment and a no-trade clause.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Fourstick
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but situations do sometimes change.
I'm not saying they don't
but someone posted a quote by Holliday from two weeks ago and another quote from him after he turned down the extension in Colorado and they looked awfully similar. I don’t think he’s changed his mind one bit, so I really don’t think Boras is out there rustling up 4 year deals for him. If so, I’d pay him 4Y$75M easy if that’s the case. I like that a whole lot more than 8Y$128M.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Forget him
Move along
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
If Holliday is looking for $20 mil a year…then it’s time to move to plan B. He is a great player but he is not worth that kind of $$. It’s much easier to make the playoffs in the NL to where the Cards don’t have to break the bank for Holliday. The Cards made a great offer. If he turns it down…well good luck in New York Matt.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
He may be worth it
But it wouldn’t be wise for us to spend that much money on one player (not named Albert Pujols)
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Plus it seems like there are not many teams
if any that are at the table looking to give Matt what he wants. The worse thing the Cards can do is outbid themselves. I wonder when Boras will bring up a “mystery team” that is interested to make Mo up the price. Right now I don’t see anybody. The Angels are really the only team I can see getting involved. I just don’t think the Yankees are in this.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
But I could see the Mets getting involved if they don't get Bay
I think Boras is waiting for Bay to sign before he does anything else.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
He's easily worth 20M now
The problem is he’s easily not worth banking on being worth 20M 4-5-6-7-8 years from now.
Not afraid to nitpick
I love how the Tony LaRussa portion of this post has been completely ignored except for WMT's comment.
It was a very interesting read, Dan, but I think this Holliday, Halladay, Lee madness has hijacked VEB today.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Good point
I was actually wondering how a Stars and Scrubs lineup might impact the tOPS+ calculations. I might have misunderstood something, but if a lineups is less balanced and more dependent on having a few awesome hitters supported by a stable of more average hitters, wouldn’t that bias the results a little? And it would make it much easier to optimize your lineup since it is easier to distinguish between the good and bad hitters. Maybe I’m thinking too much about it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I loved the line about Barry Bonds,
because he was a no-brainer, and his replacement proved that his manager actually had no brains.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
I think it would effect it
but not as much as you might think. In a sense, every lineup outside of a select few is a Stars and Scrubs lineup. The differential between the hitters in the 3,4,5 spots will probably normalize over all of the lineups out there, so I think you can compare the managers this way.
If it really effects it, then Red certainly wouldn’t be on that list, because he didn’t really have a Stars and Scrubs type of lineup when he was managing the Cardinals.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
that was a hell of a long read, and the Rolen thing pissed me off
other than that i liked it, but i don’t know what to say about it.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Genius
A joke certain friends of mine who went to University of Florida like to make: “Only in baseball could someone with a law degree from Florida State be considered a genius.”
I dunno
I think you could be a genius in just about any sport if you had a law degree, actually…..
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Like a dwarf among midgets
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Better watch my shins
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Someone from the state of Florida
casting stones in their glass house. I like it.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Zito Redux?
Anyone concerned about Holliday’s 8 yr at the height of his career being similar to Zito’s 8 yrs? Look at it this way – Who is producing today as they did in 2001, besides Albert? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
Who dat says dey gonna beat dem Saints?
Saints won’t make the Super Bowl. Mark it down. When Chris Redman essentially carves apart your secondary, your defense is teh suck.
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
if you wanna go that route
the pats and brady had all kinds of trouble with the saints 2ndary. schemes are at play here.
That really isn't their secondary though
that’s the guys who got off the plane last night before the game. They should have their top two corners back for the playoffs. I’d be worried more about the run if I was the Saints, and judging by the way they defended the Falcons on Sunday, they are. A whole shit-ton of “single-high safety” in that game with 8 and sometimes close to 9 guys in the box to stop Michael Turner, while some low rent corner essentially shut down Roddy White.
Nobody is beating them at home in the playoffs — the only team that has a shot is Minnesota and that’s only if our fucking coach wises up and hands it to All-Day and Chester 50 times in that game and controls the clock.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
did you use to guy by a different name?
i feel like you did
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
go not guy
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
what was your name?
or is it a secret
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
His true identity is on the fritz.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
It seemed a lil cheezy,
but it was the closest I could get without actually telling him.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
gotcha
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Do you watch Scrubs?
“My peeps is on the fritz.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
oh, not my peep, my boys, my homies
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
List?
How about 6 to 8?
Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
Berkman, Chipper, Arod, Helton, Abreu, Rollins...
Vazquez, Oswalt, Hoffman, Mariano, Jeter, Ichiro, Beltran, Damon, Pettitte, Buerhle, Sabathia, Hudson…
There’s more… Don’t forget to adjust for roids!
MB for LF in 2010!
In fairness Zito won a Cy Young
so if you were asleep at the wheel as a GM you could be easily fooled by that alone. Granted the idea to change his delivery after the Brinks truck backed up to his door was probably something the Giants should have told him to sit down for 3 months and think about.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
he knew he was all smoke and mirrors by that point
and probably wanted to head off the crash. who knows if he caused a worse outcome or not by his changes but he was nothing special for a while heading into that contract
Yeah I know
It was just funny that that spring he gets to ST and SURPRISE!!! I’m changing my delivery. Oh by the way I’ll be here for 7 years. Enjoy.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
look at his numbers prior to that signing
he was showing pretty clearly that he was a #3 starter
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
This is a pretty good list actually
- A-Rod
- Jeter
- Berkman
- Chipper Jones is still pretty good when healthy
- Ichiro
- Damon
- Manny Ramirez
- CC Sabathia
- Buerhle
- Rivera
- Hoffman
- Javy Vazquez.
I’m sure there are more……
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
The "when healthy" caveat for Chipper is my concern.
A lot of these fellows play a fairly stationary position for are fairly stationary when playing their position (save Ichiro, Damon, and Gold Glover winner Jeter). It seems like a lot of money for a guy who very well could be covering left field as well as a potted plant in 6 years.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
JETER!!!!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
me or him?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
true enough
though i probably deserved it too
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
now I see why we traded chris perez
LaRussa has not had much success with young pitchers
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 1:38 PM EST reply actions
i am going to miss chris perez
until we sign matt capps
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
or if Motte improves over last season
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
learn that second frickin pitch, Mottie!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
it's harder for him to learn new things because he really is crazy
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
credit misdirected?
is it just me or does most of the credit that tony is given as a managerial genius due to the pitching? If that is the case, and knowing that Dunc was at tony’s side the entire time, why does tony get all the credit? I know there are many here who would argue that Dunc is a bit overrated, but if we are going to praise reclamation projects, I think that credit is best directed to the pitching coach.
Odd
I kind of skimmed through the except admittedly, but I didn’t think of Dave Duncan once while I did. And I really should have. I guess I assumed I should only be thinking about LaRussa because, well… it was about Tony LaRussa. It’s funny how easy it is to fall into biases like that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I think of them as an inseperable chimera.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think a lot of people do
But as a result it’s probably more likely for Duncan to get the short shrift than LaRussa. Unless you’re Kevin Slaten, in which case the manager’s name is actually LaGenius and is only to be mentioned sarcastically, as everything wrong with the Cardinals is Tony’s fault one way or another.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I don't think Duncan even wants recognition
I think he wants to be regarded as an expert, but he’d rather sit there with his book and dissect every player he so much as glances upon than really stump for himself. La Russa tries to give him more credit, but we all know what a great media man Tony is.
Hopefully, The Duncan is sitting there with his book teaching Chris Carpenter everything he knows.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Oh I hope so
For all we know, Duncan taught Carpenter everything he knows about luggage.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I think Carp knew about luggage
hockey, and all. long pointless days of rehab, and all.
Duncan just showed him he was tipping his Samsonite.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
So he always had the luggage to be great
He just didn’t know to wield it to reach his full potential?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yup
he wasn’t always an ace pitcher, after all. I think he had the potential to be a badass, but the sheer bloody-minded determination not to be Mark Mulder refined his technique.
not to mention, he’s figured out how to scream “Fuck!!” without showing up his opponents or drawing an ejection. best move I ever saw him make on an assist: sprinting back to the mound before he could slug that one ump.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
With great power comes great responsibility
Chris Carpenter is so awesome that he can actually harness and control the awesome power of Chris Carpenter, without killing any umpires or getting tossed from the game.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
you know
he really did
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
he nearly did, anyway
that was the same ump who got the “Are you looking at me? Why are you looking at ME?” but Yadi was right there and intervened.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
OK, let's take that point
Isn’t LaRussa a genius for recognizing Duncan’s value and keeping him close. I think this is a good example of what Jaffe is talking about. Hiring a guy with no pitching experience to be a pitching coach — another brilliant move as it turns out. Aren’t all great managers ultimately geniuses at getting the best out of their staff?
Just win
hoo boy...
it looks like three separate organizations have now determined that Brett Wallace is not a third sacker.
Mo’s judgment is looking better and better, as I’m sure everyone here would attest.
MB for LF in 2010!
I think Lyle Overbay should consider changing his name
to Kyle Loverboy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
His judgement
is about to tie up $128 M where it wasn’t tied up before.
Kinky.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 15, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
long time no read HL
unless of course, you have been back and i’ve just missed it
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Some people are into that sort of thing.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
This just in from ESPN
I know this isn’t the official Holliday obsession thread, but I didn’t want to add to the 1100 comment monstrosity. This hot off the presses from ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4745530
So… the Cardinals are holding to their five-year offer? Where is the truth in this thing?
somewhere between the unicorn and the pixie dust.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Whispered Joe Strauss to...
I’m sorry, I can’t bring myself to complete that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
TWJSWICE
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
if this is true
then it would seem the cards realize they are bidding against themselves…which is a good thing
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
if you can't believe Buster, who can you believe
The Yankees have no intention of bidding on Holliday, according to Olney’s sources.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the guy on the corner pushing the cart and muttering to himself?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
which New Yorker are you speaking of?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Given Olney's time spent covering the Yankees,
I’m more inclined to believe his anonymous sourcing regarding Yankees’ offseason activity.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
remember last year they weren't in on Tex till they were
you can’t count them & the sawx out till Lego signs somewhere else. it’s far, far from over
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
well, that makes a lot more sense
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
maybe
strauss was told to hint at 8 years to scare away the yankees?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Strauss is really a double agent
He plays the bad cop to Goold’s good cop. He nobly does the dirty work and is hated for it, all to protect the Cardinals Nation he loves so much. Heh, that’d be hilarious.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
they have to be paying him an awful lot to be curmudgeony 24-7.
midnight included.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
All for the love of one CFer.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Dec 15, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
dear future baseball stars of America
remember plan b or you’ll end up as a dubious meme on the internet
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I could totally see him as
the sloppy loose cannon veteran to Goolds freshfaced, good guy kid
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I bet Strauss staying up to midnight got him saying
I’m too old for this shit!
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
He's taken lots and lots of non-lethal gunshot wounds to the shoulder.
We might not like his methods, but he gets results. Damn it, he’s probably the best man we’ve got.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You're right chief.
Tell the mayor Strauss is still it. And let’s just pray the property damage stays in the six-digit numbers.
And someone get me a fresh pack of cigarettes dammit!
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
"Strauss, you can't smoke here, they just passed a law!"
“… I am the law.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Wow. That guy's got an ass for a head.
It’s almost Shakespearian in it’s genius.
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
it's just behind Stroker and Hoop
that should say… quite a lot.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
H. Jon Benjamin is a national treasure
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Strauss was told to hint at 8 years in length by Scott Boras.
Which is also where the anonymous “Holliday would prefer to play in St. Louis” came from, too, I suspect.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Dude...
I think Buster just read this thread here at VEB, and then summed it up at ESPN, naming us as “sources”.
At least that’s how it looks to me. Again, what does ESPN pay Buster Olney for? And how to I get that job?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
he's named 'Buster'
so… step one, change your name to a suitable baseball moniker?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'm gonna change my name to "Scoop" Matthews, and apply for a job there now.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
is "hazel" baseball-y enough?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
i vote for 'Haze'
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I would try "L. Hayes," hazel.
Looks writerly enough to me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That would be awful
you know Berman would start calling him Purple Haze… and does he really need that?
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
berman or hazel?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Hazel
If I had a Berman nickname I’d off myself. That guy is intolerable.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
backbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackbackback… /offs self
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
I tend to think of him as
Fred Flintstone IRL
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2009 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know about "hazel"
but I think “Hazelnut” would make a good old-fashioned baseball nickname.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Oil Can? Stubby? Rex?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
That doesn't really work when you have more than three fingers on both hands though
If I was a Simpson’s character, on the other hand….
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
maybe the problem isn't the nickname
it’s your fingers. how much do you really want this?
by DanUpBaby on Dec 15, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this would automatically qualify you for the moniker "Crazy Three-Fingers."
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Which, who wouldn't want that?
Can we take up a VEB pool to pay for four-“Crazy Three-Fingers”-stick’s subsequent medical costs?
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
medical costs? how about a few rubber bands and a bic lighter?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I've got very good medical coverage...
someone just needs to do a hatchet job to my hand so I can prove it wasn’t self inflicted……
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
hatchet-point robbery goes wrong! a likely story!
it will never be detected.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I feel like this thread should be an episode of arrested development
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps someone
should see if the P-D would replace Joe Strauss with Three-Fingers Fourstick before we get to far into this?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Nonsense!
Throw caution to the wind! Damn the torpedoes! Once more unto the breach!
Etc.
by arch support on Dec 16, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
TWJSWICE
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 16, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
That's What Jesus Said When I Crapped Eggs?
by arch support on Dec 16, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
You'll never be the same after this, but
That’s what Joe Strauss Whispered into Corky’s ear.
* is an Asshat
A 5 year/$16M deal would be fine with me
I wonder what the options are though
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Odd
When I heard about the 5yr deal all I could think was that someone is spying on Mo. The numbers 5 & 8 would look very similar if viewed stealthily.
The other more plausible explanation is that it is an offer for 5yrs with a series of options to take it to 8.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
i doubt Mo's handwriting is that bad
maybe on a cocktail napkin where Strauss attempts to get his scoops the old fashioned way.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
OT: now that I posted it, I want to redo The Man Stew
That second section of Eliot’s poem is all about Plan B. Adjusted for era.
Wow, that would be so, so wrong.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
never forget the dwarves!!
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/6/8/902788/larussas-dodecahedron-lineup
(reply to above, but actually on-topic!)
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
which makes not sending the pirates a token player (hamilton?) prior to the non-tender deadline look kind of dumb.
not that anybody here was pimping for that option earlier this off-season >whistles<
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Except then we'd have to give him arbitration dollars,
reportedly something like $4M.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
i think the money is going to get up there pretty quick, with so many teams calling his agent.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
We'll see what he signs for...
but it’s looking like they should’ve just tendered him. He might’ve made $3.5 mill.
MB for LF in 2010!
This makes zero sense to me
That we are not even interested. Duncan just said he wants an 8th inning guy that has experience closing.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
We are
But he’ll be bid out of our range. Too many suitors
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
No they are saying we are not even one of the 16 teams interested in him
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
i've seen our name linked to him.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Crasnick just said today that we're apparently not interested
It was a twitter thingie which was posted on MLBTR.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I don't get it either
Unless they are just determined to not spend money at all on that possible bullpen upgrade. Or maybe they already are set on Kiko Calero or something. You’d think we’d at least be somewhat interested.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I don't get what else they'd spend money on
Even if you blow 16M on Holliday, there’s still plenty of payroll to go around.
Not afraid to nitpick
I think that Kiko Calero
will probably be cheaper and better than Capps next year. It would be wise to sign him while everyone else is bidding on Capps.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yeah, I can definitely see how they could spend money on the bullpen more wisely
I just assumed they’d at least express some sort of interest in Capps just in case. Maybe they are just thinking along the same lines you are, which is probably a good thing. If 16 teams are interested in the guys, or however much it was, then we should probably look elsewhere.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'd rather have Calero anyway
he was a much better pitcher last year than Matt Capps, and his career K/9 is much higher, so if we’re looking for someone to set up and help Franklin close games, I can’t think of anyone that is much better that could be had for less than $3M or so.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I agree.
I’d rather have Kiko, and it seems that the demand for him is lower, as well, making him all the more attractive as a bullpen arm.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Felonius and I have been beating this drum the last couple of weeks
Kiko Calero:
- Career K/9: 9.63 2009 K/9: 10.35
- Career HR/9: .71 2009 HR/9: 0.15
- Career FIP: 3.29 2009 FIP: 2.56
Seriously — how in the holy hell are teams beating down Fernando Rodney’s door when they could sign this guy for for 2 or 3 years and $6M bucks? He’s had some injury problems, but so has Rodney. If I was Mo I would have signed him yesterday, and I’d also feel better about the Mulder trade, FINALLY.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
but it's an awesome name!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I hadn't considered the sentimental value of this signing.
That is another check in the “pro” column.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Capps though has much lower BB/9
Capps actually reminds me of what Motte could be some day
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I f***ing hope not
I would hope the Motte is striking out more hitters than Matt Capps does.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
David Freese would like Matt Holiday to sign with STL ASAP
In related news, Tiger would appreciate some sort of presidential level sex scandal.
by salukihoops on Dec 15, 2009 3:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
"Half the population dead- were Tiger's mistresses among the casualties?!"
“Stay tuned for a tweet on this subject around midnight.”
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Dec 15, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
How does the meteor disaster effect Tiger's favorability ratings in the latest poll?
The Cardinals sign Matt Holliday to gargantuan deal—would they have signed Tiger before the scandal broke? Would they now?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Sleep is overrated...
seriously though, staying up late for a tweet from a douche like Joe Strauss has really made me take a hard look at my life.
MB for LF in 2010!
Richie Incogneto saves the day yet again...
his name even sounds like a great “secret identity”
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Hell if he put together 3 good weeks
He’d dominate that battle.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I'm in the same boat
I’ve given up on handegg this year. When my options are Illinois or the Rams I choose TiVo.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
so true
I am such a fair weather fan when it comes to Football. I can’t watch a football game by myself. I only use to watch football in the past because everyone came over to my house to watch it.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think my issue is
that everyone else tells me how awesome football is. I tend to be a bit of a contrarian by nature so I gravitate to sports that piss people off… like baseball and hockey. Well at least the people who love football.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I couldnt tell you if football is a good sport anymore
the Rams have been SO bad lately.
Plus I dont know, there is something about baseball where you know the players more.
They stay around more, you dont have cap issues.
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
I also don't like the NFL
cause to me they seem to have the attitude of “You need us in your life” when I really don’t. I also don’t want to support a league which encourages morbidly obese linemen and then does nothing for them after their career to help them live healthy lives. Same thing with concussions. To me it seems the NFL treats brain bruises as “Well that’ll happen. What do you want us to do about it?”
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I saw Rich Eisen said that the NFL should treat a concussion kinda like a red card
Your automatically out this week and at least the next one.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
That would be a step in the right direction.
I really think if everyone started calling them bruised brains we wouldn’t have the problems we’ve been running into.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I heard Dan Patrick tell a story that Merril Hoge told him.
He said that more than once Hoge has apparently driven around his neighborhood 5+ times just trying to find his house. Joe Montana was on the DP show yesterday and he was telling him how his eyesight is permanently damaged. I’m glad something is being done about this.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
I can't deal with the commercialism of the NFL at this point
They literally have a rule in the game (that changes strategies) almost solely created to squeeze another commercial in late in games for maximum ratings. I give you: the Tostitos Procter&Gamble Products Las Vegas Apple ExxonMobil Anheuser Busch presents Two Minute Warning.
Meanwhile hockey eliminates commercials after icing to actually maintain the rulebook/flow of the game. It really is a shame Bettman’s marketing crew forms their strategies by extracting information from watching different breeds of dogs mate.
Not afraid to nitpick
Unless something gets fixed this year people with Directv
won’t even be able to watch the playoffs.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
incase anyone hadnt heard
he got the boot from the team today (after two personal fouls this week and -30 yards)
I assume this bumped David from being our biggest disgrace/water cooler talk
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
i have a hard time getting down on Freese
I just so many people with DWI’s. It seems like half my friends have them. I honestly don’t drink and drive because of the financial risk.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, me too
I dont think I know anyone with a DWI, but I work in bars a lot so im sure I dont but it hasnt come up. I could see how it could easily happen, but I rarely drink tbh
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
thatssh not what your mothah shhed lahst night, trebek.
i have a hard time getting down on Freese
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 15, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I thought you were drunk until "trebek".
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Sweet.
A Darrell Hammonds/Connery reference will always get a rec from me.
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 15, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
he was drunk over twice the legal limit
it’s his second alcohol related arrest & his second auto incident this calendar year. what does he have to do for you to think less of him? kill someone? he’s got issues man, big time. and the Cards don’t need to put up with him after everything that happened to the team.
DUI’s aren’t a laughing matter, especially when the drunk was more than two times the legal limit & could barely walk & talk.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i think you mean three times the limit
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
do i? i thought he was twice the limit?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
not nearly enough it seems
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
were you the one with the breathalyzer?
if so, whatcha blow?
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
just bought 2
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
I always give them away as White Elephant or stocking stuffers
They are cheap and everyone loves them. They are pieces of shit though
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
No accident occurred
He was swerving between lanes and was pulled over without incident.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry
Not used to hearing auto incident… brain automatically changed it.
by Mulliganstew on Dec 15, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
so
we should seek another 3b because freese got a dwi?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Not yet.
Mo will wait to see how he responds to treatment. But Freese’s job is on the line, big time.
Now with extra feisty!
i should just have you say what i want to say
you are way more direct & to the point
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
how he responds to treatment?
he doesn’t have a broken arm
mo will tell him to go to some sort of outpatient rehab and he will. i find it very hard to believe mo is going to expose the team like that
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Freese has already agreed to whatever substance abuse treatment
that the Cardinals provide their players.
Now with extra feisty!
right
and i think it’s pretty reasonable to expect to see him in spring training. unless, say, he does it again
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
not that his job is very on the line
he would have to actively try to lose his job
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
i think you're wrong, he's on very thin ice
if he screws up in any way, be it another DUI or on the field, he’s gone
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
well
if he gets another dwi, he’s going to be in jail
either way, i find it unlikely that he gets another dwi or, say, punches albert pujols in the face while making blasphemous remarks.
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
i should hope not
Yadda will have to smack a biatch if he punches Albert
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
what'd you tweet?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Mine's probably 20% baseball.
20% bitching about my husband. 60% random observation followed by snark.
Now with extra feisty!
i just don't get twitter for "normal" people
i see the attraction to the famous & the press, but why a normal person would want to tell the world they just got a cup of coffee is beyond my comprehension.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i had a blog too
but the 140 thing to me is just dumb
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
so you're saying i'd be a good tweeter?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
What's it like?
Being so needlessly judgmental?
Also, 140 characters is what used to be the standard text message limit. Make sense now? It’s like sending a text, except to contacts via the internet.
Now with extra feisty!
i'm not being serious at all
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
f'ing enter button
i’ll just add, and was only playing with you. i’m not judging you or anyone else
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
you're stabs always cut the deepest
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
yes you do
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Well when you are stabs
You presumably do cut.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 16, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I decided to use it to challenge myself
to 140 character or less rants.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
perhaps
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
It sounds like he has hit the stage
a lot of my friends did in our mid to late 20’s, when you get arrested and you can no longer blow it off by saying “I’m young an immature, no big deal.” It now is a deal, he’s not young anymore, and it’s time to grow up.
Fuck baseball, for his personal sake, I hope he does get it right, b/c most of y friends that didn’t answer that second wake up call are all shit birds now and not my friends.
(and thank god this didn’t open up his steroid connections, since nobody really cares about David Freese the figure and the press covers their hometown heros, but those will probably get out there too if he fucks up again.)
did I miss something?
Haven’t heard anything about that last bit.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
i've only heard about the liquor & drugs, but noting about PED's
that’s news to me
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
There hasn't been anything reported on it.
but he’s a prime candidate to why it can suck to play baseball where you grew up, especially in the smallest big city in the country.
i have a bad feeling about the whole thing.
none of these things are awful on their own. i sure hope freese doesn’t have an alcohol problem. i don’t want to see the team derailed by another guy suffering from “dehydration” and “stomach viruses” all season.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
OT: I will now post sweet baseball pictures
Feel free to minimize this post. The first one’s the best



Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I disagree.
- is freaking hilarious. the best part is the bubble gum. it really adds something.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
whoa.
I wrote number 2 with a pound sign, and it turned into 1. TWO IS THE BEST. In case there is any confusion.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Jonny Gomes should not play in the NL
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
For anyone interested in Johnny Gomes
please refer to picture number 2.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Hey at least. . .
Holliday gets a glove _________ on the ball.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Dick
The answer is dick
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
what's in the box?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i officially award you the "seamless blending of two memes" medal of VEB honor.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
that's the third time in 48 hours
I’m glad to even be considered for it
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the kid with the texas cup is hilarious
and anyone notice the dad not blocking his daughters face?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Not me
I think this is about time he learned some SELF-RELIANCE!!!
I love old George Carlin bits….
“I’m not getting on the plane, I’m IN the plane. Let Evel Kneivel get ON the plane!”
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i like the guy in the back right with the evil smirk
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
that's a ginger for you
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Is that woman in the back playing with an etch a sketch in the background of the bat picture?
And the woman next to her — how many million miles away from the ballpark is she?
Just win
i wondered those exact two same things.
tho upon further inspection the etch-a-sketch may just be a food/dink tray
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
looks like she's shoveling garlic fries
god those are so disgusting.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
watching the 2007 play-in game between Rox and Padres
Holliday just misplayed a ball in the 8th to let the fathers tie it up
Trend?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
possibly
I posted all the WS 07 plays that likely involved Holliday.
make of it what you will.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I am just annoying enough to repost it.
Game one, grounded out twice, K’d.
Ramirez singled to left [Youkilis scored]
Varitek singled to left [Ramirez to second]
Taveras flied to left
Ortiz singled to left
Youkilis doubled to left [Ellsbury scored]
Ramirez singled to left [Ortiz scored]
Lowell doubled to left [Ramirez to third]
Ortiz flied to left
Game two, singled – adv. to second on an error (did he nutmeg?)*, singled and LOB, singled and LOB, singled and picked off.
Pedroia flied to left
Ramirez singled to left [Ortiz to second]
Lowell doubled to left [Ortiz scored, Ramirez to third]
Varitek flied to left
Game three, reached on fielder’s choice, grounded out twice, 3-run homer, flied out.
Ramirez flied to left
Ellsbury doubled to left
Varitek singled to left
[Ramirez out at home (left to catcher), Lowell to third (on throw to home)]
Matsuzaka singled to left (that brought Lowell home)
Ramirez flied to left
Game four, grounded out, K’d, flied out, grounded out.
Ellsbury doubled to left
Matsui doubled to left
Ramirez lined to left
Lowell doubled to left
Lowell flied to left
(Atkins was 3B, Tulo was SS.)
* I think this is the Lugo error which earned him an extra share of enmity. Which snowballed into the Sauks paying him to play for us. It’s the circle of life!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
The Wizard sure had some magical sideburns.

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
I think I have a new facial hair goal...
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Ozzie Smith was superfly back in the day
His face/chin was pointier.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'm naming my 3rd born child "Supafly"
…Regardless of gender
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
You need to be put down for your own good
Well really the good of society, but whatever.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
It's okay, I've decided my 4th kid is gonna be named "Mister"
…also regardless of gender.
I hope to have a Miss Mister McFarland.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
I think it's time to call in a carpet bombing
We can’t run the risk that your ideas have spread to your neighbors. Granted you are talking to the guy who thinks Hendrix would be an awesome first name.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Man I hate buying Christmas presents for my parents
They already own everything. What is left to buy.
They don't own mother Earth, because nobody does.
Wait… that means you can’t buy it for them… crap.
Iunno, gift cards or something?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It's cheap and it's the gift that keeps giving all year round.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
do you still have any shirts in stock?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
ditto
I just buy them food that they usually are not able to get
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
on that note
I’ve found that Harry & David (or other brand) gift baskets go over really well. Especially around the Hollidays, because no one wants to cook after Christmas, they just want to lay around and snack.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
good call. the snacky things in the williams-sonoma catalog are usually big hits.
expensive, but those folks that have everything tend to have spensive tastes.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I just bring the p's some stuff from trader joe's since they don't have one in western IL
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
I got my mother
a cheese of the month subscription last year, and I’m just going to re-up this year. Cost me an arm and a leg, but I think she may have enjoyed it more than any other gift she’s ever gotten.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
It's no Jelly of the Month club...
But those should only be given as bonuses… not gifts.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Is it just jelly?
Or do they also send a variety of other spreadable edibles? Jam and the like?
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 2:39 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn't covered in the movie.
But I don’t see why jam wouldn’t be in there. Perhaps even a nice apple butter. (Holy hell do I love apple butter)
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
if there is a God & he wants me to have even a little bit of happiness
there is a bacon of the month club, and i’ll get a membership to it for xmas
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Ask,
and you shall receive. (Well, receive a link, at least. I don’t know you well enough to spend that sort of money on a gift.)
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 16, 2009 3:37 AM EST up reply actions
that's awesome
no worries red, i’ll just buy it myself
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
buy them some fancy bacon. everyone loves fancy bacon
well almost everyone (cough) cgirly (cough)
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Oh man
One time a family friend brought over some authentic Southern smoke-the-hell-out-of-it country bacon. Stuff was probably half an inch thick too. Best damn bacon I’ve ever had. (I’m only talking about American “bacon” here, pancetta and other pork belly foods are in a different category).
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
My dad got me a couple of pounds of that kind of bacon from a local smokehouse a couple of Christmases ago.
It was wonderful. Unfortunately, my wife was pregnant at the time and made me get rid of most of it because she couldn’t stand the smell.
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 16, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Too bad
Glad you got to enjoy some of it though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yeah, maybe now that we're done with the having kids thing, I'll go get a couple more pounds to make up for it.
It’s always a good time for Bacon!
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 16, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Does Carson Cistulli's writing grate on anybody else?
It’s just very annoying… The writers on this site write intelligently, but they NEVER come off as pretentious as he does
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
dude from fangraphs?
yea he strikes me as very asshatish
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
I find it takes most writers awhile to find their own style
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
having recently taken up a writing position on a baseball website, i will say it's more than a little intimidating to
write a post for some indeterminate number of people to read. and the line between clever and irritating is very fine.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I'm thinking he's been a writer for some time.
Just guessing based on his abilities.
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I have no doubt about his writing abilities
He writes very intelligently. It just especially irks me
Tom, you’re doing a great job, by the way. Your ee cummings lack of capitalization is great
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it's pure laziness.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I don't know who this ee cummngs character is,
but the lack of capitalization is clearly derived from lboros, founder of vivaelbirdos.com.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Or tom s. grows tired of capitalization in his briefs and just wants to lazily muse about baseball.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
ee cummings is an early 20th century american poet.
and also my favorite poet.
if you’re into that sort of thing, this is my favorite poem of his
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
ooops.
well I really do love ee cummings so I never pass up an opportunity to spread the awesomeness of his work.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
what if a much of a which of a wind is a good one.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I kind of like his style
But I haven’t read a ton of his stuff, just a handful of articles. I read him as more playful. He reminds me of DanUp and Red Baron in some ways.
Also I am glad I just read his latest fangraphs thingie (OK, I skimmed it, tRA* is strange and confusing to me and makes me frightened) because I clearly had Gio Gonzalez confused with someone else; I thought he was an outfielder.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It's self-deprecating enough that I can dig it.
He’s like the David Foster Wallace of sports bloggers.
Which, maybe that’s not a compliment, but it describes him well.
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, I don't mind him
Breaks up the constant droll of FanGraphs.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think this was referenced above
but just in case,
@Buster_ESPN Official with knowledge of the Yankees’ thinking said there is “not a chance” the team bids for Holliday or Bay this winter.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Even if true...
I could see the Mets wrapping up Bay and the desperate Angels overpaying for Holliday… There’s also the Mariners and the Giants…
MB for LF in 2010!
Well...
they’ve lost Figgins and Lackey and the M’s have gained Figgins and Lee. That means their 15 game lead is now in the 6-8 game range… As for outfielders, maybe they trade Rivera? Or go with five to fill four positions? Matsui and Abreu are pretty old, Hunter is injury prone, etc.
MB for LF in 2010!
I figured Matsui is the DH
and they’ll probably resign Vlad, so they’ll still have him, Abreu, Hunter, and Mattherws, no? They should be going after Beltre instead.
Matthews is out...
he’s bench material at best, plus his attitude is terrible. I assume Vlad is out, replaced by Matsui. That leaves Rivera, Abreu, and Hunter as the OFers…
They don’t need Holliday, but who knows… Maybe the Giants swoop in?
MB for LF in 2010!
I think having Matsui
means they don’t resign Vlad. I don’t think they’d want either one of those guys playing the field. And until there are two DH spots in an AL lineup…
I wouldn’t put it past Selig to try it.
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Less than that really
-4-5 wins for 2009 Figgins replaced by Wood
-2-3 wins for 2009 Lackey replaced by ‘Whoever It Is They’re Replacing Him With I’m Lazy Gimme A Break’.
+1-2ish wins for Figgins over Beltre
+5-6 wins for Lee over the Garrett Olson sampler platter
+6-8 minus -6-8=Mariners should be better than the Angels if everything stays the same.
*Science was not utilized in the construction of this post
Not afraid to nitpick
I have a feeling
That the Angels are saving their cash to go after Mauer and Pujols in the coming years.
man
think about those two on the same team
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 16, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
But Molina would have to go, and Stock wouldn't be the one to replace him
Well I guess I’m okay with it for Mauer!
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 16, 2009 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
I don't believe it
I just went back and read old stories last year about Tiexiera. The Yankees didn’t bid on him at all than boom next day they signed him.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the plan -
The Yanks feign no interest to keep the price down
Cards submit lowball offer
Other teams don’t bid
Boras shops lowball offer to Yanks
Yanks agree to slightly beat lowball offer on condition that Holliday doesn’t re-shop it
Holliday signs with Yanks for more than the Cards’ offer but never enter a bidding war
Multiple P-D commenters die of myocardial infarctions
Yanks win WS ’10.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
8y/$128M = lowball?
if the yanks want to go 8y/$160m, they can knock themselves out. we have no business trying to match that.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Exactly.
If that is the deal, and Boras/Holliday reject it, then the Yankees can have him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah, and imagine the New York media + nutshot
The Hollidays will be longing for Straussie. but he will belong to another
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I haven't seen anything definitive that the Cards did in fact offer 8/128....
though I would say $16AAV is probably not what Boras/Holliday were looking for. The 8/128 offer (if actually made) is interesting because it puts to the test whether Holliday believes that he might make more money if he signs a 5/100 and then signs a new deal.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Appendix:
“Myocardial infarctions” most searched-for term on wiktionary for 24 hours.
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to say "Profit"
then i read the comment
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
So Brett Wallace is now an American League first baseman...
The average AL first baseman hits 271/351/481. Anyone see him being average anytime soon?
MB for LF in 2010!
To me Brett Wallace is Casey Kotchman without a glove
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
That would really make it challenging to play the position...
I foresee a lot of hand injuries.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Dec 15, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Define soon.
And yes, if soon = by 2011, I suspect that he could deliver that value, although the line might look more like 280/380/450.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
when is the last time a free agent coming out of Texas didn't go to shit the next year?
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
FA? I don't know.
Via trade, A-Rod and Teixeira…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
maybe.
He did say he learned to hit there
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
When is the last time a free agent coming out of Texas didn't sign with the Cubs?
DeRosa, Bradley… Am I right?
Disclaimer: I didn’t think too hard about this, so I know I might not be right.
by arch support on Dec 15, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully to a 3-year, $9MM AAV deal.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you dream too small: i will settle for nothing less than a cubs 7y/$140M contract for Byrd.
NET career UZR in CF: 0.2
wOBA’s with TEX: .345, .370, .350
wOBA’s not with TEX: .294, .309, .270, .349
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
ooo! ooo! dream about them trading bradley for ollie perez and sending the mets $6m!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
OT: Finally my own moniker
Hello, all! The Evil Twin of Solanus has finally gotten his own name here on SBN, like Evil Ash growing out of (Good?) Ash’s shoulder. No more sharing the VEB teet for me!
Some quick, fairly on-topic bullets:
- Assessment of TLR seems to be entirely focused on him rather than including the career-long relationship with Dave Duncan. Papa Dunc was likely the primary reason for the resurgence in the careers of so many pitchers on TLR’s pitching staffs. However, Tony does get probably the appropriate props for his use of the pitchers in the bullpen, unless I’m missing something and it’s actually Duncan’s call on when pitchers need to be brought in and out of games, in which case he’s dissed again.
- It seems like there’s like maybe two or three guys actually getting scoops on baseball moves and such, and everybody else just links to and then comments on their article. Unless you’re My Little Pony-corn, in which case you just make crap up and act like you have a real source. I think Unic-corn is the Brick Tamland of baseball “reporters”, and I’m not really sure if I should take pity on him or just laugh constantly at his attempts to be first, edgy, or relevant. Heh, ha ha, Ha Ha Ha, BWAA HAH HAH HAH!
- I hope Holiday signs soon, and for a reasonable price and number of years. The conversation on what constitutes “reasonable” has gone on long enough without me weighing in.
- No, I won’t be staying up late tonight (or any given night) to catch the latest “twit” from Sparkle Farkle.
- Marlon Byrd as a Cubbie: one of the idiot NS fans I have to deal with at work actually seemed excited at that prospect a week or so ago, or even better – Rick Ankiel. Restraining my inner hyena, I calmly suggested someone more like Mike Cameron – you know, someone who can hit, and play a quality CF without running into walls. Nope, apparently the Cubs have a Magic Sponge which can make all the bad things about Rick’s game just go away, at least according to this guy. Good luck with that.
That’s it for the moment. Needed a few minutes here at work for some me time – mission accomplished. Time to go home and maybe catch a movie, either fresh on the big screen, or “The Hangover” on the TV.
(If you have not seen “The Hangover” yet, just go to the store, right now, buy the DVD or BluRay sight unseen, take it home immediately, and watch it all the way through, especially the end credits. And I do mean the end credits – just during that part, I laughed hard enough to completely blind myself in tears. The rest of the movie is nearly as awesome, but all I have to say is: old woman in the elevator…)
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
I expected some sort of inverted color scheme to Solanus' avatar
But, now that you’ve identified yourself, no changing avatars. It’s a rule.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
Also
I would like to second the comments on The Hangover. Best movie of the year and my second favorite comedy after Old School.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
I submit
that’s it’s better than Old School, not quite as good as Lebowski, and is still behind Animal House, from whence all these type movies were born.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I am just not a fan of Jim Carrey
which ruins Dumb and Dumber for me. Jeff Daniels is great in that movie, but Jim Carrey annoys the hell out of me.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Also,
Jim Carrey doesn’t think vaccines work.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
Damn people taking medical advice from celebrity
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the stance
was vaccines cause autism. But why people listen to people with no medical training but who are funny I will never understand.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
and research has shown
that is untrue. There is absolutely no correlation between vaccines and autism. Yet for some reason ppl think because celebrities believe it, it must be true. There are some “traditional” chiropractors who believe that babies should be brought to them instead of vaccinated. Insanity.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Such are the risks of free speech
and 24 hour news channels that need something to talk about.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
When children don't take vaccines it doesn't just affect that child
But all through the herd effect. That is what bothers me the most.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
This is why I say
there should be an application process to have kids. If you can’t wrap your mind around simple things like vaccine goes in polio doesn’t you don’t get to have kids. If you disagree with that come with science to prove your point and we can talk. Since then you appear to have the mental capacity to make thought out decisions regarding your kids.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
eugenics ftw
wait, what about christian scientists?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
More or less...
I don’t want to get banned going on a religion rant. I’m afraid I may already be toeing that line with what I said.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
slippery slope, innit
who gets to determine the qualifications?
really, i’d like to know one reasonable qualification
and if you don’t pass the test, what do they do, castrate you? kill your babies when you have them?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
my first thought also
Who watches the Watchers
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying it's a well thought out plan...
Just saying there are some people who shouldn’t have kids… I’m pretty sure we’ve all seen some people with kids and you just shake your head and go about your day.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
yeah, but that's the nature of the beast
and also why we have the division of family services
it’s not like most people decide “i think i’mma have a baybay!” anyway. they just get drunk, find somewhere to stick their jiggly bits and nine months later there are little ducttape16s and prophetjohns terrorizing america’s blogs
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Dude it'd take my kid to at least
10 months old to get into commenting on blogs… so that should really be 19 months.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
i understand the thought about having to apply for a permit
But Americans are very much Anti-Govt by nature. I don’t see this ever happening. It happens though in places like China. *which is a good thing imo
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Of course nothing like this will happen here
we are too busy with things like smoking in bars. Which as we both know is a first rate killer. Ok I’m going to stop now. This is really not going to end well if I keep on this.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Killing people early isn't such a bad thing
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
I just get mad
at all the people who tell me how awful smoky bars are. I have never once been forced into a bar. So by my calculation if it’s a problem stop going there and problem will be solved. In fact this is the one thing that sets me off more than pretty much anything else. Just for the record I’m a non smoker.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
The public smoker is infringing upon the breathing rights of the public drinker!
Now with extra feisty!
I've always felt
that it should be the bar owners discretion to allow smoking or not. There’s obviously a market for smoke free bars. There is no way you wouldn’t make money running a smoke free bar.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
but
they’re smoking/drinking in a private establishment
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 16, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
You did a good job
of sounding like that camp of people. And I needed a good place to get my last point on that in.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
yeah
your constant state of exclaim gave you away
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 16, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
oh so you can dish it out but not take it?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I couldn't tell pj was kidding!
I don’t like smoking in restaurants, but I could give a shite about bars.
Now with extra feisty!
maybe i should change my sig
and figure out a way to put a unicorn in it so people know i’m kidding
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i wasn't really
but i had to argue even though i knew i wasn’t really arguing with anyone
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 16, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
I was pulling a similar manuever...
And we couldn’t argue each other since it seems we’re on the same side.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
yeah
smoking bans make meh mayud, too
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 16, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
The crazy thing to me
is that some of these people think that because there weren’t documented cases of polio from 1960-1990, they think that the virus has disappeared. It hasn’t, it’s still out there, it’s just that the population being vaccinated against it allows our immune systems a head start. The bug hasn’t disappeared, and if you don’t vaccinate your kids they could find it.
My wife and I are expecting and it took me 2 months of discussions with her to wade through the evidence that vaccines do not and never have caused autism, because she has a friend that’s a chiropractor who didn’t vaccinate her kids because they cause “autism”. It’s very irresponsible for those with no training in either medicine or statistics to make this claim and it’s more irresponsible to not vaccinate your kids, who have no choice in the matter.
Also, Jenny McCarthy, if you’re reading this, there’s no cure for autism. None. There are higher functioning autistic people, but your kid wasn’t “cured” of autism. You are a joke.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yeah, our one year old just got another round of vaccinations at her 1 year checkup.
The poor thing got 6 shots in one day (and had to have some blood drawn, ouch). She was not very happy for the next 2 or 3 days, but thank god we have medical science. One of my great grandfathers was the only child of 11 (I think it was 11) to survive long enough to emigrate from Italy to the U.S. There are reasons that sort of thing doesn’t happen as much today.
I think some people, apart from the autism hysteria, have this fear that their childrens’ immune system “can’t handle” vaccinations sometimes, or that multiple vaccinations will somehow be harmful just from the sheer amount. I sympathize way more with this fear even though it is also unfounded as far as I know.
My mother is a pediatrician and my wife is starting residency in pediatrics next year, so the vaccinations silliness that goes on out there is particularly irksome to me.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
If you were banging Jenny McCarthy
and didn’t care about anyone else’s kids because your a Hollywood actor, though…..
Jenny McCarthy is the f’ing lunatic if you ask me.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
How dare you
she was a hot blonde with big cans… why shouldn’t she be allowed to disseminate her opinion to the rest of the world on matters of public health…
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
the key word there is "was"
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
You should talk to gdm about that
f’in gdm
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
about the hangover? it was kind of boring.
i liked it, but it’s not as funny as everyone thinks it is. it’s not half a funny as Old School, which paired with ron burgandy as easily the funniest movies of this decade
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Ron Burgandy was not funny
But I did think Old School was funnier than The Hangover. The Hangover was a good movie but was not as funny the second time while Old School remained funny.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
Anchorman is one of the most quotable movies
I have ever seen. That counts for something in my book.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
Well Ferrell to me is not that funny
At least in his stupid roles by him self. Makes a good side character such in Old School but he can’t carry a film.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
he's really become way to overexposed
he plays almost the same character in every movie he does with only a few subtle differences between them.
he’s having the same problem jim carrey had 10 years ago
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
yeah, exactly
will ferrel hasn’t been decent since snl
and i’m not a big fan of those stupid funny movies anyway
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
i like to laugh, too much blood & gore & drama makes a crabby gdm
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i tend to just like
well-written, thoughtful movies
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
so you only see what, one movie a year then?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
if by movie,
you mean major hollywood film, then, well, less than that
but there are lots of good movies. i watched three today
vertigo, the fountain and le mepris
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
I might need to watch Vertigo again
But I remember being left rather unimpressed. I am quite the Hitchcock fan also
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
I liked Vertigo a lot, but I'm not quite sure if it's actually that good or just pretentious and weird
Not my favorite Hitchcock movie by any means.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Lots of old Hollywood movies, like Vertigo, are very good.
Tons of stuff to rent. Not a lot of quality films at the cineplex.
Now with extra feisty!
netflix, ftw
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
i've only ever heard of vertigo
and i’m pretty sure i watched it a long time ago
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I have most of his stuff
I heart North by Northwest
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
that's in my dvd queue
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
My favorite Hitchcock movie
Another awesome movie is The Manchurian Candidate
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, me too!
I saw it at the crappy old Creve Coeur cinema that had the funny dancing popcorn cartoon before the movie. I saw Spartacus there too.
by peach concrete on Dec 15, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
I actually saw it in an English class.
That teacher was awesome.
I did have the pleasure of seeing Rear Window at the Tivoli in 1999. So awesome.
Now with extra feisty!
that's where i saw it too
we had a really cool HS english teacher that showed a bunch of old movies all the time. then he up & quit to be a JAG. jerk
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Rear Window is such a skill full movie
That movie must of cost nothing to make. You just don’t see quality films like that anymore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 16, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
I think that might be my favorite movie of his
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It's just one of those near-perfect movies I think
Great concept, great execution, great cast, and so on and so on.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Except Vertigo, which is hours of people driving around in a car.
I know it’s great, but it’s also extremely dull. That’s right, I said it!
Notorious on the other hand, is fan-freaking-tastic.
by peach concrete on Dec 15, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
It's been sitting on my TiVo since March...
I really need to get around to that.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
So he's doing his best Ben Stiller?
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
carrey was doing that before stiller was
even though stiller was acting before carrey, he wasn’t staring in big films before carrey was.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I was referring more
to the fact that Stiller has 2 characters. Normal guy in extreme situation (fockers) or really off the wall character (Dodgeball)
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
I liked Jim Carrey in Yes Man
and Will Ferrell in Stranger than Fiction
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
i haven't seen either one of those
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
is stranger than fiction the one where he hears voices
about his life like someone is reading it from a book?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
has anyone seen stranger than fiction?
very different movie for Will Ferrell. I loved it.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
wow
I read all the way down and I did not see any discussion of Stranger than Fiction.
SBN’d
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
who gave cgirly IHB's password?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I think Anchorman was the perfect situation for Will Ferrell and it's been downhill since then
He was just not quite overexposed enough that I was tired of him. He had a fantastic cast in that movie and they were all really funny. So the movie itself, I felt, had enough other things going for it that it didn’t solely depend on Will Ferrell being goofy. I really really liked that movie.
It was also one of those movies where the audience was a very strange mix of people; my buddy and I were the only ones laughing at some of the best scenes in the whole film. Very bizarre.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Baxter you ate a whole wheel of cheese and then pooped in the fridge?
I’m not even mad. I’m just impressed.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Or the changing avatars thing
just going to the mat for my boy azru.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
oh, well i only did it the once, and if i do it again i'll send him a warning email
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Really? No avatar changing?
Aww, I was really looking forward to running through a variety of avatars, covering the gamut of my interests. Although I really do love GIR, from Invader Zim – I can hang onto that for a while.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
well, you can
but the robot may disassemble you
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 17, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Hey nice to finally see you here
We met at the VEB day
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Although I do admit
I had trouble keeping them straight — I had to remember them by which hat they were wearing.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
yeah
heh
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Technically not identical
But close enough to throw most people off. Solanus likes to change his look every once in a while (long/short hair, beard/goatee/clean shaven), while I’ve kept essentially the same hair and goatee styles for 13 years. Don’t try to tell us apart on the phone, not going to happen.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
about time yo
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
i'm not reading all of that
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
damn
and i was holding my breath
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'll have to work on that
I tend to collect my thoughts and then comment all at once, rather than leaving little bits all over. More hygenic that way. Probably has a lot to do with spending more time on longer format forums, like those for City of Heroes (superhero MMO, lots of fun).
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
does the entertainment ever end?
4:23pm: The Cubs are considering Rick Ankiel, Reed Johnson and Scott Podsednik, according to MLB.com’s Carrie Muskat.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
the good, the bad, and the ugly? not in that order, necessarily.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I like Reed Johnson
He has nice numbers against lefties in his career and is pretty good with the glove.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
Much better with the glove
than Cory from what I hear.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
shhhh! don't tell them
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I want him to be our 4th OFer
I think he would be a good platoon with Rasmus against tough lefties
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Why not just sign them all?
How much can that really cost, $1.2M? $1.5M?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I wonder if Boras really thinks he's going to get a lot of money for ank
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
it's not a lie if you believe it's the truth chitown
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
didn't they just release reed johnson?
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
.232
What is Dick Ankiel’s batting average, or David Freese’s blood alcohol content.
by Mister Eff on Dec 15, 2009 6:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You'll rue the day you crossed Mr. Freese, TreBEK!!
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Chill out.
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 15, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
let's put this meme on ice.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
The Ice Man Cometh!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Revenge is a dish best served--cold!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I have started eating my own special enchiladas
I will be eating nothing but them until friday morning. Who else is in on the roadtrip?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Great post Dan
I love the saber support for TLR. I’m surprised the stat-geeks aren’t more talkative about what a great WARP he brings to the Cards. I am especially impressed with his ability to both grasp the basics of Moneyball metrics such as minimal use of intentional walks, batting pitcher eighth with outright paradigm changes such as the one inning reliever or hiring Dave Duncan. And combining this with a s**t-kicking “my or the highway” approach. Whitey is great, but TLR is the best. First ballot hall of famer if there is such a thing for managers.
Just win
sometimes you have to wonder.
Bill Ladson spoke with Marquis who seemed very interested in pitching for the Nationals.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i think it's just that marquis has gotten no traction anywhere (probably will change after pineiro signs).
it’s in his interest to link his name to as many teams as possible. many use the nats as a springboard to get a better deal elsewhere, but few sign (adam dunn notwithstanding).
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
no, he's been linked
to the Mets and the Phillies and the Mariners.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
rather, I agree with you
but of all the teams to link his name to…..
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Derrick "Good Cop" Goold
finally the tweet reappears re: La Russa
La Russa going to serve as one of four current managers on 14-person blue-ribbon committee to evaluate on aspects of play. #stlcards
and on-topic, boom
All infielders can and will play the outfield. #tonyup*
*note the hashtag
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
okay, this hashtag is hilarious
you put your twitter public, the internets will find it
- dgoold
@JoeStrauss It’s a real #tonyup. Where you on Twitter when we had the exchange of ways TLR would improve the game (all marked #tonyup). - Skitzzo
All teams that make the playoff are re-seeded as “tied for first.” #tonyup - dgoold
The La Russa ticket plan includes a kitten from local animal shelter. #tonyup - Skitzzo
Teams are awarded “bonus runs” for managerial decisions deemed to be showing loyalty to players. #tonyup - mterry16
Bullpen arms don’t count against 25-man roster #tonyup - mterry16
teams awarded bonus runs for most creative use of lineup; multi-national panel employed #tonyup - cliffe2 RT @Erik_Manning:
@drewsilv every team must have a minimum of 13 pitchers, including two lefties. #tonyup - STLCards86
Teams batting the pitcher 8th have to pay royalties to TLR #tonyup - Nick_Yahl RT @drewsilv:
Using the same lineup on back-to-back days is punishable by death. #tonyup - myersli
Gritty switch-hitting, low power IFs must be given reps in the OF to showcase their defensive range. #tonyup - dgoold
Managers will be required to wear the number of the next championship for the franchise. There’s a run on No. 1s. #tonyup - dgoold
All infielders can and will play the outfield. #tonyup - cbensinger
All teams must carry at least 12 (15 would be better) pitchers on their 25 man roster. #tonyup - cbensinger
In late innings must always go with lefty/righty matchups regardless of pitchers success (or lack thereof) against the batter. #tonyup - bobtimmermann
All NL managers must double switch even if the pitcher would bat 9th anyway. #tonyup - mterry16
All pitchers can and will pinch-run #tonyup - mterry16
All ground-ball outs worth “two” #tonyup … but should probably be #daveup - bobtimmermann
All managers will submit to three days of interviews with Buzz Bissinger. #tonyup - dgoold
Kansas performs the national anthem. Always. #tonyup - mterry16
Title of “Manager” to be renamed “The Boss” or, perhaps, “The Bruce Hornsby” #tonyup - Skitzzo
Players are assigned mandatory chauffeurs. #tonyup (#stlcards should actually look into that one.) - JoelrlHall
The official comedienne of MLB is Elaine Boosler. #tonyup - cbensinger
All teams must keep injured players on 25 man roster and play short handed instead of putting them on the DL. #tonyup - miss__k
All scrappy utility players will be required to pitch at least one scoreless inning in relief #tonyup - LRavens
@dgoold every game is pooches in the park. #tonyup - Salmondave2
Every post game interview must contain the phrase, “Men are not machines”.#tonyup - Skitzzo
Minor leagues are expanded to AAAA & AAAAA to make young players further prove themselves. #tonyup
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"Managers will be required to wear..."
…the number of the next championship for the franchise""
When Girardi took the number of the yankees’ championships, plus 1, (27), in 2008, i was sure they’d not win again for 100 years. The Curse of Girardi. And 2008 made me feel more than a little giddy inside, since they didn’t make the playoffs even with a $1.21GM payroll.
Sadly, after 2008, the GOBs forgot there were 2 teams in NY, and did all their smiting on the Mets in ‘09. Or, more likely, the yankees outspent the GOBs ability to smite them. Which is actually kind of fabulous, in a Nietzschean fashion. Or maybe they won’t win for the next 100 years, now that they’ve reached G’s number- yeah, i’ll root for that.
Anyway, I think it would be awesome if all managers had to wear the number of either LCS or WS they won. Or even their team. Anything to give meaning to the number. At worst it would be a meaningless frivolity (La Russa (10) shakes Hillman’s (01) hand prior to the first pitch of game 1); at best it could be dramatic (Clark (00) set to take on Maddon (00) – one of whom has a 01 jersey waiting for him after this series…
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
you've struck on some hyperbole even espn hasn't managed!
Jeter ist der ubermensch! (Jeter is the superman!)
Also, does this mean GOB is dead?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 16, 2009 1:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Amazing gem about LaRussa hidden amongst that excerpt:
In fact, in full seasons his teams have had the best record in the league more times than they had losing records (seven to six).
I've got a question
Whats the functional difference between OBA and OBP
You people and your numbers...
The only number that matters is dingers.
"When I knocked a guy down, there was no second part to the story." - Bob Gibson
by ducttape16 on Dec 16, 2009 2:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OBA
is just another name for OBP as far as i can tell
if you mean wOBA, which is weighted on-base average, then that is where linear weights are applied to each offensive outcome proportionate to their affect on the game and the result is scaled to OBP. OBP is just the number of times a batter reaches base divided by PA
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
OBA is correct, OBP is not
for instance, a guy who gets on base 4 times out of ten would have a .400 OBA and a 40% OBP if OBP was actually expressed as a percentage. Since we express it as “.400”, it should technically be referred to as OBA. But it’s well understood that OBP means OBA, and OBP has so much momentum that it’ll probably never change.
Plus, OBP sounds better. OBA sounds like a mail-order grad school degree.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
i'm less likely to confuse it with wOBA if we call it OBP, also.
My daddy told me, lookin' back, The best friend you'll have is a railroad track
So when I was 13 said, I'm rollin' my own, And I'm leavin' Missouri and I'm never comin' home . . . Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird, And when I wanna talk, He hangs on every word. . . And I'm lost at the bottom of the world. - Tom Waits
No, no, no
that’s just not right.
It’s OBP (on-base percentage) because the stat expresses the percentage of plate appearances in which the batter gets on base. How it is expressed, whether with a “percent” sign or as a decimal, is irrelevant.
It’s also SA (slugging average), not slugging percentage because the stat expresses the average number of total bases that a batter achieves per at bat.
/pedant
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 16, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't a percentage necessarily have to express the number of something per 100?
How can a decimal, technically speaking, be a percentage? Wouldn’t that mean Albert tends to get on base 0.45 times out of a 100, or 45 times per 10000? Is this a common use vs. technical definition problem?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
per cent = per 100
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 16, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
3000+ comments later, a question
The next time mattyp says another boring slow day, do we cut him or burn him?*
→ Dec 14, 2009 3:04 PM CST
ding-ding-ding – epic three way trade
→ Dec 14, 2009 3:08 PM CST
* Actually, now I fear mattyp’s secret power.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I don't believe it
It’s Boras jockeying
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 16, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Now over 1000 comments
I think gdowdy3 was number 1001.
Anyway, Rally just put up his 2009 WAR data at www.baseballprojection.com.
Can anybody tell me if/why I should trust Fangraphs WAR over Rally or vice versa? Just curious.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
the commie sequel
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

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