B Prospects, Plan Bs, DWIs
John Sickels released his Cardinals Top Twenty over the weekend, giving us an SBN-approved list of prospects to salivate over. I can't deprive him the pageview, but suffice it to say that the Cardinals' remaining minor league strength, a large pool of Sickels's ubiquitous "Grade C" guys, is not the most exciting thing to talk about. Go over there and read it, because then I'm going to niggle with it in bullet point format.
-
It's awful to see Pete Kozma rated 16th, but I can't exactly argue with the thought process that landed him there. I can almost see the thought process behind promoting Kozma, and position players in general, aggressively through high-A. Palm Beach is a hitter's nightmare, and the Springfield Cardinals play in the Texas League; it's a much closer step than it typically is, and probably should be, and had it worked out it would have been a nice confidence boost for a guy who's been not-Rick-Porcello from day one.
That said, I don't get why they kept him there while he endured an unbelievably terrible season. Kozma, who Sickels reminds us was drafted as a "makeup" guy, didn't hit; he wasn't sure-handed afield. At least when Tyler Greene, who managed to climb past Kozma in what is presumably his last year as a prospect, flailed around the minor leagues he stole bases like crazy (113 SB, 15 CS) and hit a few home runs to show that the tools were intact. Kozma wasn't a tools guy; he was drafted on the presumption that he would adjust well to adversity, to whatever role was required of him. I expect a bounceback season of some kind, but the question with Kozma has always been how high that last bounce will be.
- The exciting news is that Sickels is higher on Robert Stock than any other source to this point—number four on the Cardinals' list, ahead of Daryl Jones, for the usual reasons: if his bat holds up, he's the total catching prospect package, and if it doesn't he's a hard-throwing pitcher who can kind of hit. Two, two, two prospects in one! I was as excited to watch Stock pick apart the Appalachian League as anybody else, but since Niko Vasquez I've learned to resist the temptation to throw out small samples of at-bats when the season-wide total is so small. Stock may have struggled in just 24 at-bats in the Midwest League, but when that's the difference between a .936 OPS and an .857 OPS for a guy whose bat has as much uncertainty as it does upside it advises some caution in using his short-season debut to forecast future greatness.
- While we're on the subject of catchers, Steven Hill was perhaps the biggest surprise of the whole top twenty for me-his .282/.333/.470 line in the Texas League as a 24 year-old earned him the spot just ahead of Pete Kozma on the list. What I'm about to say makes me very uncomfortable. I was an early Bryan Anderson skeptic, and I don't think it's beating my own drum to say that I had him out of my mental top five before other people did. But Steven Hill is a year and a half older than Anderson, and has his own fatal bat flaws; Anderson may have less power than his pitcher, on nights when he's catching Adam Wainwright, but Hill's high-strikeouts/high-average/low-walks routine is a recipe for Major League disaster, and he's apparently even worse behind the plate. I hate to say it, but we might have officially begun to underrate Bryan Anderson.
- He's still got no chance of ever starting here, ever, and I'll ban anybody what says different, but I like the decision to list Mark Hamilton at the back of the list. He did it in two hitters' leagues, but an OBP-heavy .927 OPS in the high minors is no mean feat. (And he, too, is six months younger than Steve Hill.) If the Cardinals have any interest in keeping the guy it might have made sense to give him more than a single start in left field, where he could platoon with Allen Craig on a team with less of its future wrapped up in competing right this instant.
You get the idea—these are misfit toys, but eventually the Cardinals will find off-label uses for some of them.
#
This is extremely interesting timing, given the imminent and uncertain timing of Boras/Holliday's decision on the Cardinals' official offer—over at Play a Hard 9 there's an interesting graph of possible Plan Bs should things not go the Cardinals way. What I doubt in the graph is not that the thought of Miguel Tejada playing third gives Future Redbirds godfather Erik nightmares but that the Cardinals will stick mainly to Allen Craig in left should Holliday leave for greener pastures.
Craig might have a good year, but the symbolic value among the DeWallet set won't be lost on ownership or management; nobody at third base, short of Scott Rolen with a bionic shoulder, is going to make fans forget that the Protect Albert spot is being filled by a rookie making $400,000 a year. And it's simply too easy to use Craig without starting him; as the small end of a platoon he could get his feet wet without having to be the Guy Who Isn't Matt Holliday. U.S.S. Mariner has it "third-hand" that Seattle and Baltimore are talking about Luke Scott, erstwhile Astros slugger. A guy like that would make a lot of sense, should the Cardinals find themselves with a Lego-sized vacuum.
That said, my dark horse candidate for surprise left fielder come this April is, more and more, Johnny Damon. He wasn't offered arbitration, so he won't cost the Cardinals one of what looks like a bounty of draft picks, he fills a hole, Guy In Front of Pujols, that's been assumed vacant nearly as long as Guy Behind Pujols, and he's a guy with a broad base of pretty good skills. I don't know how fond I am of blowing the easiest spot on the team to upgrade on a 36 year-old left fielder coming off a huge season fraught with reasonable park effects concerns, but I can see it happening.
#
And finally, speaking of Miguel Tejada playing third base, there is Joe Strauss's pre-tweeted breaking news, that David Freese was arrested on DWI charges. We don't know the whole story yet, and I'd hate to pass complete moral judgment on it without that, but suffice it to say that this is a really stupid thing to do.
In the end they're athletes, and should be in the news, for the most part, based on what they do on the baseball field; at the same time, it's not unfair to hold a baseball player—or a golfer, I guess, to turn subtext into text—to the same standards for generalized disappointment you do any other human being you happen to come across. This is bad; I hope either that there is some mitigating circumstance, though I can't imagine one, or that he is prepared to deal with it in the future, before the consequences get worse, far worse, than a really disappointing Twitter-tease. I don't think, and have never thought, that I as a sportswriter, or we as baseball fans, can say much more about something like this than that.
That said, we don't yet know how this is going to play out on the baseball field; as a ballplayer, Freese, cheap, useful, is an important cog in any free agent machinations.
0 recs |
977 comments
|
Comments
pretty sad list
The only solace the list offers is the thought that they have to know they gave up what little they had for Holliday and Derosa, which should make them stretch to keep Holliday. There isn’t any position player help on the way. Now Freese has had two straight offseasons with driving incidents. Add that to his already suspect status and it looks increasingly like they will have to dip into a large (but not so good) 3B free agent pool. Another name not on the list is Gregerson, who left in exchange for the 2009 contribution of Khalil Greene, our opening day cleanup hitter.
by vinniefromjersey on Dec 14, 2009 6:48 AM EST reply actions
I'm confused.
How does a DWI have any bearing on what Freese is likely to do in the coming season? Unless he’s staring down jail time (which I doubt, given this is his first offense as far as I know), I can’t imagine the two are particularly related. I’m curious as to what you mean.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 14, 2009 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
The club's reaction is the issue.
This guy disappointed a lot of people in the organization last year by trying to hide his injury. LaRussa particularly held it against him. The club has a black eye regarding alcohol-related incidents with Spiezio, LaRussa, and Hancock. They could easily choose to make an example of Freese here, and if they don’t punish him you are going to have a loud minority screaming from hills about the privilege of professional athletes.
I’m not going to pass judgement on the guy at all. I don’t know the circumstances, and I’m not convinced that 0.08 is a level that I haven’t exceeded many times in the past. Who am I to judge? I would like to see these guys start thinking about their public image and how it might affect their profession. This is a marginal guy that is about to be given a second real chance to make the ballclub and stick. Last year he screwed it up, and now this jeopardizes it this year. This obviously doesn’t affect how he plays baseball, but it may affect his opportunity to do so. In addition, it may force the Cardinals to turn to plan B sooner because of the PR ramifications of relying on Freese at 3B now.
This is a bad thing for the ballclub regardless of any moral judgement that one might possess about this incident. It’s a shame that Freese has put himself, and them, in this position.
I'm not attributing this to you, etp_stil,
but I simply don’t understand this mindset:
They could easily choose to make an example of Freese here, and if they don’t punish him you are going to have a loud minority screaming from hills about the privilege of professional athletes.
How many people work for an employer that punishes them for an OWI? People who drive for a living probably do. I would wager, however, that most people do not. So, then, how is it that pro ballplayers are treated any differently in this regard? Also, how hypocritical would it be for the organization to punish Freese but to have done nothing to TLR?
Lastly, I don’t think that the PR ramifications of allowing Freese to start at third base are remotely as large as hiring Mark McGwire as hitting coach.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
beat me to it on Big Mac
I was just hitting enter on a similar comment about where the DWI ranks for the Cards PR issues heading into 2010.
I agree with you guys, to some extent.
I think the McGwire issue has been proven to not really have a big effect on fan rancor, though. Steroids make for some discussions, but that issue doesn’t have the kind of negative publicity that drinking and driving has had for several decades now. The only real effect that McGwire’s hiring has had has been on the amount of noise the media is making for being denied the answers they think they know and to which they think they are entitled.
I’m not convinced that they definitely will choose to make an example of Freese, but I think it is more than possible for a player that simply doesn’t have a public fanbase to support him. It is also amplified by the fact that he lied to the organization last year about his injury. The timing was different on the LaRussa issue in that it was the first of these occurances. The following incidents made it look like an organizational problem, and I’m not sure the Cardinals want to further that image by retaining the guy. I’m also not sure about the perception of the guy being rewarded with a starting job after this incident. I think there will be more fans that boycott going to the games based on that than will boycott because McGwire was hired. Just my opinion, and I don’t think it will be a large number for either reason. It is more an issue of driving away sponsors based on the responses from MADD and other such lobby groups.
Corporate employees are certainly held to a similar standard regarding drug and alcohol use, not just licensed professionals. It is clearly layed out in employment papers that there is zero tolerance for those issues. Most employees are more likely to be fired for being impaired at work, and that extends to manufacturing, as well. There again, that is typically a zero tolerance policy.
Again, I’m not making a statement about what I want or think they should do. I was simply trying to provide my opinion on how this might affect what Freese is able to do on the field this year. I don’t know that they’ll overreact to this incident, and truthfully, I hope they don’t.
why
is everyone bringing up his injury last year? he tried to play through an injury. isn’t that grit? isn’t that chris duncan and rick ankiel personified and what made them such amazing teammates?
also, freese is a moron, but this should have no bearing on his role as the cardinals starting 3b. he does not drive a vehicle for the st louis cardinals
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Because I'm not Tony LaRussa.
No, I don’t think Chris Duncan lying about his ability to play made him a great teammate. I don’t believe that LaRussa running Duncan and Ankiel out there when they clearly weren’t capable of playing at even a serviceable level was good for the team. Also, there is a difference between playing through injury and trying to hide the fact that you have had an injury. Ankiel didn’t do that. Duncan and Freese both have.
Choosing to hide an injury shows a lack of professionalism, and it creates a trust issue between the player and the organization. It also might have changed the organizations offseason moves last year because they were working under the belief that Freese was a healthy and viable option for the 25 man roster. By the time they found out, the options for improving the situation were limited. The same goes for Glaus, and that is most likely why he isn’t going to suit up for the Redbirds this year, either.
As far as his role with the Cardinals being influenced by this current mistake, you have to remember this is an enterainment business. Fans influence organizational decisions based on off the field issues regularly by threatening sponsors with boycott. MADD is an extremely powerful lobby group, and lobby groups like to make examples of highly visible situations. You can’t discount that type of influence on the situation, though it has nothing to do with what Freese is capable of doing on the field.
i agree
about the injuries. but i don’t think that trying to play through an injury is necessarily a character flaw
and ankiel di try and hide injuries, just not in ‘09. it’s kind of hard to hide that he crashed into a wall. but i didn’t get the impression that he was very forthcoming with his ’08 injuries
as for madd and the like, i see and understand the rationale, but i just can’t bring myself to care that much. he did something stupid that is completely unrelated to his job. he should be punished for it (and he will) but not by his employer
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you, in principle.
I don’t believe that those types of off the field transgressions should carry over to your professional life; however, I’ve noticed that there aren’t too many people asking my opinion on that matter. It obviously has had carry over effects in multiple cases, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it does in this case, as well. I have yet to figure out how to guess which situations are actually going to cause that type of media/PR blowback.
I honestly don’t remember the situations around Ankiel’s injuries in ‘08. I know the club wasn’t forthcoming with the fans, but I don’t remember hearing that he tried to keep his injuries from the club. I do remember hearing that Duncan tried keeping his injuries in ‘08 and ’09 from the club, so that’s why I mentioned him specifically.
I also agree that playing through injuries is not a character flaw. The coaches are payed a lot of money to decide which players give the team the best chance to win. The player is responsible for being ready to play every day, regardless of bumps and bruises. I think LaRussa picks and chooses when to villify a player for playing through injury in order to exonnerate himself from the responsibility that should be his. I wouldn’t fault Freese for insisting on going out to play through the injury he experienced during the last offseason, but he is at fault for not letting the team know about it.
While I agree that this is a job and not dependent on drving ability.
His behavior certainly reflects on his maturity and reliability levels. I haven’t seem or heard the accident report from his previous injury, but if I were the Cardinals I would make sure I analyzed that carefully and if there is any suspicion that alcohol may have played a role…even if not charged, I would require him to seek some help.
The reliability issue is important I would think…if he is our choice for 3b we wouldn’t want to forsake other options and then see him get injured, jailed, etc. mid-season because of another drinking and driving incident.
requiring some outpatient rehab
would actually be a pretty reasonable action for them to take
firing him/benching him/starting in AAA is an overreaction and bad for the team
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
+1
he’s not a kid anymore. needs to grow up.
and/or the Cards need to have a comprehensive system to get players help when they need it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Or a cab reimbursement system.
If you’ve had a little to drink, why even risk it? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It’s idiotic, whether it’s the manager or a farm leaguer.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
exactly
a relative of mine who was a surgeon would always tell me to be careful of his hands, when we were assembling and fixing stuff around the house — they were his bread and butter.
they earn their money with their athleticism. stupid not to take care of it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
it doesn't matter if he should be
the point is that he will be. you might not but i guarantee you the club that has had several alcohol related incidents including one fatality cares. how could they not?
what happens when they slap his wrist and then he gets into a car crash in a couple months? there would be hell to pay.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
I'm just curious...
Is “FutureMan” by any chance a reference to the Flecktone of the same name?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
its from the movie bottlerocket
great film if you haven’t seen it
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
I didn't really like it
And I’ve watched it more than once
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
I have seen it, actually...
I just don’t remember the FutureMan part. But I have only seen it once, several years ago. It was good! I think Bottlerocket and Rushmore are under-appreciated compared to The Royal Tenenbaums and Life Aquatic.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Rushmore isn't underappreciated by Anderson fans.
That said, I like Tenenbaums the best. I didn’t like Life Aquatic.
Now with extra feisty!
Ah
That’s cool. I don’t like him enough to consider myself a dedicated “Wes Anderson fan” or anything, but I do like his movies a good amount. The ones I’ve seen. Has he made any more?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
isn't he responsible for the darjeeling express? or does that just look like
a wes anderson movie?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Oh yeah
I figured there was at least one movie of his that I was forgetting, and I think it’s that one.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Why would they catch hell?
If they didn’t provide him with alcohol? They are not baby sitters
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
doesn't matter
that’s exactly what would happen. the press and public would be all over it saying the cardinals can’t control their players.
and i know that’s how it would go down cause its exactly what happened after hancock and would be exponentially worse if something similar happened again.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
professional fields
typically have professional practice acts that hold them to a higher standard. As a physical therapy student, I have been warned about the risks and that the majority of licensure punishments have to do with drug and alcohol related offenses.
Also, I would think that if a teacher gets a DUI, they are probably going to have some ramifications at work.
I’m not saying that I agree that professional athletes should be held to a higher standard, or that Freese should be punished for his transgression, I’m just pointing out that there are fields where you will be punished for OWI.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
The traditional professions do. As do teachers.
However, I think the importance of a sober doctor, lawyer, or teacher is somewhat higher than for a professional baseball player.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think Southside, below, presented a reason for holding baseball players
to an equal standard. They are in the public eye and could influence many people indirectly in contrast to the other professionals.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I don't buy this.
Who actually sees Freese getting a DUI and thinks “you know what maybe driving when I’m really drunk isn’t a bad idea.”
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
No, but
It’s easier to accept that one’s behavior is OK if “everyone is doing it.”
Things can gain cultural acceptance if they are known/shown to be common. On this blog, we have had quite a few posters say they’d refuse to accept a wife-beater on the team….but within this thread today, there are a lot of “why is this relevant?” statements, with none of the same flat-out “cut him” indignation we’ve seen over other things. Why? My guess is that it’s in part because a lot more people here have driven drunk than have beaten their wives. But count me as a one guy who wouldn’t say that drunken driving should be more societally accepted – if anything, the consequences could be far worse.
I am not a morals fan
I am a baseball fan. I honestly don’t care what these guys do off the field.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Not the issue right here
we’re talking about whether there can be a monkey see, monkey do issue with behavior. And whether aberrant behavior can seem more acceptable the more commonly it is seen.
I agree that what fans care about/don’t care about is also an issue here, but certainly not one I was trying to address. I’d like to see all these guys be squeaky clean, but I also think we make a big mistake when we turn them into role models for anything more than playing baseball.
I doubt that anyone on here decide to drive drunk because
“everyone was doing it.” And if someone is dumb enough to put their life at risk and others because it’s culturally acceptable, then I bet they would do it with out it being acceptable. I’m not down with the drunk driving either, but if I’m the Cards GM it plays no factor in whether I let Freese play or not. Good business decisions are not influenced by morals.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I certainly wouldn't drive drunk even if everyone else was doing it
but I’d certainly jump off a bridge in that situation.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 14, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
"Good business decisions are not influenced by morals"
Not sure I can agree with you on that one, either, though I suppose it depends on what kind of business you are in. I guess I wouldn’t want to be in a profession where morals or integrity weren’t rewarded. Sounds like you’d be making some Faustian bargains in a hurry.
I think it's rather disingenous that most of this blog
is about player values, and yet most are avoiding the fact that a criminal record, a serious addiction, injury, and worse things seriously devalue the game and business’s most important commodity — people. The support resources can be had for a relatively modest price. Why has this investment not been made already? Because they’re grown men and nobody’s the boss of them?
Death lasts forever.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
and it came out just now he's had problems with alcohol before
which is juuuuust great
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
What I'm trying to say is the Cardinals
shouldn’t “make an example” of Freese by suspending him or keep him in the miniors if that’s not the best thing for the baseball team. If your the head of advertising of Nike right now I doubt you are firing or keeping Tiger based on how great of a guy he is. Your keeping him based on whether he is going to make you money.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not trying to say they shouldn't help the guy make better
decisions. I just think when Spring Training comes I want him getting all the reps that the starting 3B should get.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
Not neccessarily
At some point, businesses must factor what is “right” into their operation, or risk punishment, scorn, or loss of clientele. Because the profit value of an individual choice may never be able to be known, this means that they must make those choices somewhat blindly, using some kind of moral compass. A company that drops Tiger Woods is almost certainly not waiting to run control and experiment studies to know for sure whether he will now hurt their bottom line…they are making a gut level decision based on what t hey think is a value arena into which they can’t go, or don’t want to go.
There are definitely nuances among the concepts of morals, integrity and values here, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth regarding businesses and the latter two (you only spoke of morals).
Plenty of employers. . .
punish for a DWI, and virtually all of those where their employees would be in the public eye do.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Not really...
Unless the DWI came on company time or the employer has it written into their policies, no company can punish an employee for an offense committed outside of the workplace, not unless they want to face a lawsuit.
yeah
what a strange conclusion to draw from this
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Talk about your own worst enemy...
he should just get an apartment near the stadium.
MB for LF in 2010!
Agreed.
Someone from the club should just purchase one of those lofts next to the ballpark and charge it to Freese.
Here comes the funcooker!
by the red baron on Dec 14, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions
wait to hear his blood alcohol level
0.08 is so low it doesn’t mean he was drunk off his arse to get arrested
That's 2 beers in about 30 minutes or so
Or one boilermaker in the same timeframe. Not a huge amount.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I'm just saying
it seems like they catch a lot of people who are right over the legal limit, when they may be slightly impaired, but no more than that mother of two who’s driving her minivan while talking on a cellphone and smoking a Virgina Slim while drying her nails in the defroster — all at the same time.
I don’t think the law is archaic, I just think that there are really diminishing returns when you get down to a near “zero tolerance” level like 0.08 is. At that point, to obey the law, you simply can’t go out to dinner and have 2 beers with a pizza, and then drive home knowing that you’re safe from getting a DUI. That’s the whole problem — it’s no longer a deterrent for people, they’re just going to risk it.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Good points
Also, I hate how many times we hear that “so and so” was arrested at “n times the legal limit(!)” when the legal limit is surprisingly low.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yes, but I think a lot of people assume that the legal limit itself = close to plastered
It’s just a lazy way to provide pseudo-context, in my opinion.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The legal limit itself affects your handling of a vehicle.
So, if you’re at double the legal limit, you are a serious danger to everyone on the road, including yourself.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think they have done
mythbusters episodes that prove your point here.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I wouldn't doubt it
I just think that the press has a tendency to exaggerate this kind of thing. God help me if I ever tried to drive when I wasn’t able, that would be horrible. I just hate the sensationalism that goes into it.
However, I can also appreciate that it might be better to scare people out of acting stupid, so it’s a minor quibble.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
But, the BAC laws have evolved.
In fact, I think 0.08 has been enacted within the last five to ten years in most states, reducting it from 0.10…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I have no problem with the limit
just with the punishment, which I don’t think has evolved at all. I think it should be harsher by every .01 above .08.
Agreed
If you’re double the legal limit, you use up two strikes right there, and go straight to having your license suspended with a very harsh fine. I don’t understand why a person with twice the legal limit gets the same punishment as someone at 0.085.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
yes i agree with that
I believe the situation is the same in the UK. It’s stupid.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 6:23 AM EST up reply actions
depends on the state.
FL has harsher (not horribly harsher) penalities possible for being .20 or more. Generally for me when I was in prosecution I would like at the situation when recommending a sentence…if they were .08 or a bit above and first time no accident, etc. then I would give the minimum…which is basically a lot of hoops to have to jump through and a complete pain in the ass.. if their second or third…in a short enough time period there is some mandatory jail..2-10 days…I would usually start at 30 days jail for second time (if no other crim record)…I figure if you haven’t learned you need to sit for awhile. Third time within a few year time period..im looking for a year in jail or 6 months in-patient treatment
My brother was driving home from a cookout
it was nighttime and he got in a wreck.He pulled out in front of this kid that was driving with his lights off and since he had a .095 level he got arrested for DUI and the kid got off scot-free since my brother was “legally drunk”.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Just Thought I'd Add...
….that “Boilermaker” is one of my favorite Jesus Lizard songs!
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
hey cow!
I’m going to see them for New Year’s Eve at the Metro, it’s going to be totally ridiculous. it’s also a blue moon that night so I am going to get plastered. I’ve been listening to the remastered version of ‘Head’ a lot lately, one of the best albums I’ve ever heard
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Outstanding!!!
:=8D
I’ve been a big fan of theirs since the Scratch Acid days. I thought they had split up?
:=8/
Head = Waxeater & Killer McHann = great stuff!!!
:=8D
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
my own urine is really good too
I CAN’T SEE MY EYES!!
they did a few reunion shows this year, that’s all they really have planned. chicago was lucky enough to get 4 shows this year. I saw them at pitchfork fest this summer, the only band there I watched. David Yow is still a crazy ass mofo. I’m wondering what sort of stunts will be pulled for a new year’s eve show!
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
it's 4 beers for me
and i’m pretty average weight
yes, i’ve been through SATOP
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Not aliens. Alliance.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 14, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
also
yeah, it was stupid, but i should also point out that i was below the legal limit, but was only 19 at the time and got nailed by missouri’s wonderful zero tolerance for minors policy. under 21 and over .008 (yeah, that’s correct placement for the decimal) and you lose your license
absurd
i have my satop completion certificate framed still. what a moron
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
not that i haven't driven extremely drunk
numerous times. but i take the bus now. at least there’s that
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to reconcile
these two comments.
You think the tolerance policy for a minor in consumption while driving is absurd, and framed your certificate (implication is that you’re poking fun at it)…then say you’ve driven “extremely drunk” in the next post. Hopefully the “extremely drunk” came BEFORE the citation…otherwise, I think you just provided some support for the rest of us that MO should indeed yank the license of underage offenders.
but i did lose my license
so obviously losing my license wasn’t what turned me around. becoming mature and intelligent is what turned me around. all that charge taught me is to check my tail lights before i drive drunk through mu campus
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
knowing is half the battle, dude.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
true
and i don’t want it to appear like i’m condoning. i was an idiot
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Fair enough
Sounds like we can agree that there just needs to be something more effective as a deterrent, because a lost license and all the proactive food for thought from the satop class (did they show dead children in there?) still didn’t do it.
I’d love to see a study of the rate of future DWIs among minors who get stopped with alcohol in their blood vs. other strata of people. Simply put, does the attitude/predilection/etc that led to one end up leading to more down the road? Sounds like in your case it did, but you at least stopped before you ruined someone else’s life.
I had to sit through a SATOP class for a fake id in college
Fake ID though was nothing. Ended up only costing me $70 and nothing else. I just got a public defender.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
If you're drinking underage in Illinois
go to Champaign… They give you a monetary slap on the wrist and send you on your way… it’s really an alcoholic utopia there…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I got busted smoking pot in Colorado
In my friends dorms. As soon as the cops found out I was from Missouri they were like ‘hell no I ain’t doing that paperwork’ and let me go.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
And from what I understand...
pot is not really a priority in Colorado.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
damn hippies
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
No kidding.
http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-ganja-gourmet-120909,0,3216873.story
Now with extra feisty!
well it was a few years ago like 01
My buddy had to do 400 hours of community service. They made him do mine even though I didn’t get in trouble.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
The first rule of a fake
is never use a fake of the state your in… Gotta remember they’re bouncers for a reason… and it’s not to put food on the table during their PhD program.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
which sucks some places
for instance, around sxsw and acl, most places in austin stopped accepting out of state licenses altogether. i still had a missouri id then (because texas wanted my fingerprints to get a dl and i was saying fuck the man). i also didn’t have a car and had to walk to four different gas stations to get a pack of cigs. i was so mad that day
needless to say, texas has my thumbprints on file now
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
not the new ones at least
mine is very intricate with holograms or whatever and a bunch of other crap
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Holograms are easy to duplicate and so is UV ink
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like you have a lot of experience at this stuff...
If some friends need help can I now tell them “I know a guy”?
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
No I don't make fake id's
Epson R280 is the magic word though
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
That is the first bad thing
I’ve ever heard about Austin in my life.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
it's pretty much the only bad thing
and it’s not an austin law or anything. just something most stores practice around the big tourist times
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Wish I could find a job in Austin
I hear it’s a damn near utopia down there.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
like a real job?
i don’t know what your current situation is, but if you’re looking for a crap job while you go to school or do drugs or whatever, my place of employment is always hiring.
8/hr starting, woo woo!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
yeah
good luck finding one of those anywhere
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It is so easy to make a bad ass fake now in days
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
There was someone several years back at Illinois
who started making fakes… then sold some to people at other Big Ten schools… making it an interstate crime… someone had the FBI up his ass. So let that be a lesson to those of you making and selling fakes… keep it in state.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
The worst part about selling fakes is that you are selling to kids under 21
Which means they normally don’t have any common sense. Selling fakes can be a pretty stupid idea. When I got busted with mine though the cops were like “You bought this online didn’t you?”. Yes, Officer I did.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
well if you selling fakes to people over 21
you have to imagine they are doing worser things than drinking.
I am the Batman
what is the punishment for driving without a license (or with a suspended one) in the US?
I ask because a big problem in the UK is that a very high % of drivers (like, over 20% in some areas) is people driving uninsured and often with no license. If you’re hit by one of these people, you have limited recourse – there is some insurance fund that pays out in these cases (raising the insurance premiums for all law-abiding drivers!) but, wrongly in my view, the perpetrator is not personally liable for the damage (although I guess you could take them to court, most uninsured/unlicensed drivers probably don’t have the resources to pay for the damage anyway).
IMO, if this happens, the culprit should have their car confiscated and sold in order to pay for any damage to the victim’s car.
What happens in practice is the culprit gets points on their non-existent license, a relatively small fine, and MAY eventually get jail time or something after being caught driving multiple times with no license/insurance. I believe their cars do get confiscated but (slightly ridiculously) they get scrapped instead of being sold if they can’t get someone with insurance and a full license to claim it back within a certain number of days.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 6:46 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds fair to me.
Drinking illegally, driving while illegally under the influence. It’s not rocket science. My brother was nearly killed by a reckless teen driver whose daddy was rich and bought him out of all his consequences. That kid went on to kill himself and his best friend while driving recklessly and causing yet another accident. People don’t change their behavior if there are no consequences.
Now with extra feisty!
the general consensus
is that .08 is 2 beers in 30 minutes. .008 would be .2 beers in 30 minutes
taking away someone’s license for a couple swallows is ridiculous. punishment for drinking illegally is fair. i don’t see how taking away a driver license is relevant to the offense
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
At your age, it certainly sent a message.
What else should they do? Put you in juvie? Take away your video games?
Now with extra feisty!
condesenscion aside
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
stupid sbn
condescension aside, yes
the punishment should match the crime. fines, community service, etc. suspension of a dl for charges that aren’t really driving related (aside from the fact that they were discovered while driving) isn’t fair
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I think it's plenty fair.
I guess we’ll just agree to disagree.
Sorry – wasn’t trying to be condescending. Was trying to be funny.
Fines are really a punishment to the parents. And no one ever learns anything from community service.
Now with extra feisty!
fines wouldn't have been a burden to my parents
but i get your point
not that i’m too concerned with it anymore
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
arizona is the worst state for DUI
you can get a DUI for any amount of alcohol in your system. if you are below .06, you’re entitled to a presumption that you aren’t intoxicated, but you can still get a DUI. I actually know someone who this happened to.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
I think most states its similar, at least it was in FL.. the benefit to that is there a lot of times someone might mix drugs
and alcohol. (not saying that happened with the person you knew.) but the statute is generally the state has to prove you’re ability to drive is impaired due to illegal drugs or alcohol. The above “legal limit” entitles the state to a presumption of sorts..if state proves beyond reas. doubt over .08 then the state is entitled to the presumption of impairment.
what? that's like a wine base sauce with your steak
and you got a DUI as a minor? that’s just stupid
that has always been the law that pissed me off the most....
luckily i just turned 21, but from time to time before that I would have a beer or even a glass of wine with dinner with my parents and I was then at risk of getting a DWI… I’m not saying there shouldnt be a penalty, you should get either a Minor in Possession (MIP) or a Minor in Consumption (MIC). That was the infraction you get is actually accurate because you were in possession/consumption but werent really under the influence
yeah
i was going to make that argument, but i thought about it after the fact and was trying to avoid my tendency to kick the dead horse
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
also
it’s technically not a dwi. it doesn’t really go on your record and you only lose your license for 3 months as opposed to what, a year? also it’s much cheaper than a dwi. it only cost me a few hunred dollars. in my atop class, one thing we had to do was calculate how much the dwi cost us. most people were between $5000 – 10,000
yikes
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
In a trial of mine an expert testified that one can of budweiser will give you a .02
you also burn .02 in about an hour. So, if you drink one can, after an hour you will be back at .00. So you would have to drink 5 cans of beer in an hour to be at .08
So,
even if you continue to drink, you will metabolize the first can in an hour?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
makes sense to me
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Unless the drinker is Andre the Giant, that expert is an idiot.
Go drink 5 cans of Bud in an hour would put a normal person welllll over .08.
For a 200 pound person .02/drink is about right
Everyone’s system is different but that is about the average.
Not afraid to nitpick
If I downed a 40 and a half of Bud Heavy
in an hour, I’d be plastered. And I am 215 and have a good tolerance for the booze.
Actually, now I wish I had a breathalyzer.
Flim, drink 5 beers in an hour tonight and report back with your findings!
while drinking
post to VEB every half hour
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I was always bring the breathalyzer when I go out
It is a great conversation starter. I actually carry two with me. The first one I let others use who don’t know how to use it and mouth it up.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't know he did that
I do have a pretty hilarious Tucker Max story though.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Warning: Douchiness within this link
http://www.tuckermax.com/archives/entries/the_famous_sushi_pants_story.phtml
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Look it up
It’s everywhere. I also had a breathalyzer and it’s empirically true.
Not afraid to nitpick
5 shots of 80 proof vodka (every 15 mintues) in an hour
15 minutes after that (no drinking) I was .08. I’m 6’2 190. That’s exactly what the calculators and whatnot said I was supposed to be and exactly what the breathalyzer said I was.
Not afraid to nitpick
hmmm
That would be drinking nearly half a pint of booze in an hour.
If you continued that pace for another hour, what would you blow?
heh
heh
i geddit
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I know how to overswing on a hanging curve
and fly out softly…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
i had to read that twice, i thought you said chucks
i’ve been pretty wasted in my time, but i’ve never been that wasted
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I've only puked once from booze
and that was the 21st birthday so it doesn’t count. At least not in my world.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
i feel ya
The only time I ever blacked out was on my 21st birthday. So it doesn’t count for me either. Every other time I drank I was smart enough to stop drinking.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
I have the built in defense
of getting rather verbose after drinking for awhile. So it’s hard to get super smashed when bumping your gums as much as I do.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
That's what my weak somach is for
It’s a nice little warning shot of “stop it asshole!”
Not afraid to nitpick
Of course it doesn't count
Actually, the way I view it, your 21st birthday wasn’t a success if you didn’t puke
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
chalk up another F for gdm
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
That is why I keep a breathalyzer in my car
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Only if he starts driving
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
The really important part from the Freese article
was Strauss jobbing Allen Craig yet again:
Freese, 26, has been a regular in the Busch Stadium weight room this offseason and is generally rated the minor-league system’s top power prospect
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
That's the most important line in the whole article
but when you read the comments after the article, some people are jumping the gun thinking he’s some kinda drunk that won’t play on the field and we need to resign DeRosa immediately. He made a bad decision one night, but if he’s smart he’ll look at it in a positive light and it’ll make him better, unlike those people who are calling for the guillotine. We have 3 months until spring training starts.
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
I think this is where Rick Ankiel can thrive hitting in front of Pujols--OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
CHUGS LARUE
poor allen craig
he doesnt get injured and try to hide it, he doesnt get arrested for drunk driving, he doesnt get to play 3B despite being at the very worst average there based on every metric there is…all he does is hit and hit and hit and hit but no one seems to care…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
And he's younger than Freese, isn't he?
Maybe they just don’t like his face or something? Wait, do they even know what he looks like?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Agreed
but, here’s the thing, and I don’t think that there’s any way around it: You don’t hear any rumors about teams calling and asking about Allen Craig, and in the past two years they’ve made a trade for a minor league 3B (Freese) and drafted one with their #1 pick hoping he could stay at 3B (Wallace). I just get the feeling that maybe someone knows something that we don’t know. The guy has hit at every level, and he’s hit nearly as well as Brett Wallace has at the same levels in the minors, is only a year older, yet Wallace is a consensus A bat with C defense, while Craig is on nobody’s radar except for those of us here at VEB.
Or maybe everyone but us is wrong and he could put up an .850 OPS playing in LF full time next season. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like we’re going to get to find out any time soon.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Didn't we acquire Craig the same offseason as Freese?
My memory is very foggy on this.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
we drafted Craig in 2006 out of Cal, i believe
and got Freese before the 2008 season for Jim Edmonds from the Fathers.
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Angels not the Friars.
The Bottenfeld for Jim Ed really sucked for Angels’ fans.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
no
we got Freese from the Padres when we traded them Jim Edmonds two years ago today...
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Then the Brewers
saw how well that worked and decided building a rotation of ex-Cards who drastically overachieved was a good org model…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
i think we are just smarter than everyone else
at least i know i am…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
I'm going to go ahead and agree...
Kidding of course. That is the great worry with Craig; that there really is something we aren’t privy to that holds him back as a prospect. But teams have been wrong before. It’s just frustrating because whatever that x factor is remains a mystery to us fans.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i think it's a little more obvious than that
Craig may be a similar in the fact they are both projectable MLB hitters and questionable defensive hitters, but craig has 3 problems, that makes dulls his shine a bit.
- hits from the right side
- 2 yrs older
- drafted later
wow that was craptastic
they may be a similar in the fact they are both projectable MLB hitters and questionable defensive players, but craig has 3 problems, that makes dulls his shine a bit.
- hits from the right side
- 2 yrs older
- drafted later
But Freese is older than Craig
At least according to Baseball Reference: Craig was born July 18, 1984, Freese was born April 28, 1983.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
And they both bat right and throw right
I’m confused. I was trying to talk about the comparison between Freese and Craig, why the organization seems to view Freese much more highly than Craig, etc. Are you talking about something else and I just missed it?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You're comparing Wallace and Craig?
If so, my bad.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
hehe
I went down the exact same train of thought….
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 6:59 AM EST up reply actions
Didn't every single MLB team pass up Albert Pujols more than ten times?
I ask, in an effort to make the point that sometimes, evaluations aren’t going to be exact on what happens later on.
Here’s hoping Allen Craig has a lot yet to prove, as he awaits his Dare-to-be-Bobby-Bonilla-Moment.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 14, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
The difference, though, is that we’re talking about someone with no professional experience being passed over in the draft (Pujols) versus someone with a positive and verifiable professional track record who’s hit at every level and is a good athlete, just doesn’t draw any interest from anyone, even in his own organization (Craig).
Teams miss out on prospects in the draft, usually due to lack of knowledge or poor projections. It only happens with a guy like Pujols once in a blue moon (Piazza would be the other guy in this category). You don’t see teams missing on too many guys like Craig, though, who hit at every level, don’t have injury problems, and play average to good defense at three different positions. You would anticipate that a guy like that would have the “top prospect” moniker attached to him, yet nobody who evaluates prospects seems to want to put him there, only they can’t quantify why usually. That just says to me that they don’t think of him like we think of him, for whatever reason, and that scouts with trained eyes just don’t think that he can hack it at the big league level.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
It would be cool if some scout who is familiar with him would write up a piece about what we're all missing.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Agreed
Thing is, I’m not sure that they can explain exactly what it is that they’re seeing.
I remember talking to a pro scout one time about Kevin Orie, who was an Iowa Cubs 3B with minor league stats that are pretty similar to Allen Craig’s. The guy kept saying he just didn’t think he had the tools to be able to hit at the next level, yet I would ask him why and he couldn’t tell me exactly, just that he “doesn’t look like a big league hitter”. I think sometimes they can look at a guy, after having seen a few thousand players, and just know that he’s not going to make it at the next level or that he’s a AAAA hitter, yet not be able to quantify exactly why. Kinda like Malcolm Gladwell’s “Blink” principle of thin-slicing events.
Orie never really got it together at the MLB level and hung around AAA putting up +.850 OPS’s until he finally hung it up at age 33. He just crushed the ball in AAA, yet nobody was willing to give him a shot at the big leagues as a regular after he failed with the Cubs.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Well, it would be nice if they'd try!
Kidding of course. That makes sense I guess. The “AAAA” player is a real phenomenon, so there has to be something to this. I will keep hoping for Craig’s sake though, as I am sure everyone here will.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Harry Caray
Used to go bananas for Kevin Orie when he first came up. Caray was highly entertaining to listen to, but he had a real weak spot for the farmhands. He also went crazy over Gary Scott. Lance Dickson also came up and had a fairly good early start, and Caray went on and on about him for a few weeks.
The list goes on and on, actually. Man, I miss Haray Caray.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 14, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Allen Craig's plate discipline doesn't look fantastic,
but bloody hell we played Tyler frigging Greene.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Dec 14, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I wonder if sometimes players just get that AAAA stink on them and it's hard to wash off
Murton has a year and a half of average MLB production and a few years of mashing at AAA behind him, yet for some reason nobody wants to look twice at the guy and he’s off to play in NPB, I guess the confluence of random chance just works against some players, and I sometimes think that scouting works a bit like Chinese whispers – a player gets a bit of scouting noise going and suddenly they’re all rating him higher and higher.
I’m sure there must be a lot of players who can be about league average in their position but, realistically, for each position on the field (given that there’ll be, say, 10-15 above-average players in the majors) there’s maybe only 20 or so spots for a league average guy (perhaps with a few fitting in as backups or utility players). That’s one of the many reasons I feel that paying anything significant (say, a $10m/yr contract) for a league average guy often doesn’t make very good business sense; whilst they are, on average, “worth” that price, you can find a comparable player for less, usually.
Regarding Craig, the one thing I’ve heard about him (and I’m not sure personally, as I’ve seen him hit precisely once) is that he has a very long swing. Perhaps that’s good against RHP of a certain skill level that predominate in AAA, but there’s a feeling he might struggle against MLB-quality breaking pitches? Also, there’s an argument that, even though he’s apparently (at least by TZR) somewhere in the region of average in the field, an average minor league defender is usually going to be below-average at major league level.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:09 AM EST up reply actions
I'll bet Mark McGwire could shorten his swing.
He already bats righty; we all know that this is the side one hits dingers from.
Mark’ll have him hitting dingers on big league breaking pitches in no time.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
scouting 101
1. MOAR DINGERZ!!!
2. ???
3. DINGERZ!!!!!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
There are certain players who make it though.
Casey Blake would be one. He toiled away hitting AAA pitching pretty well before getting his shot and has been a league average or better big leaguer over the last 7-8 years or so. Scott Brosius, Kevin Millar, and Jeff Conine would be other guys that would fit that moniker: Didn’t really break in until age 27 or so and then spent a solid 5-7 years as a league average player.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yeah the list of Plan Bs is not exhaustive
But if ya’ll have suggestions for other position player combo options I’m all ears. Feel free to drop them here in the comments or over at PAH9 in the comments there. I’ll get to as many of them as I can. Off the cuff I’ve got Damon, Dunn (ughhh), and Beltre….
Prefered moves of the moment:
1. Sign Kelly Johnson to play 2nd
2. Move Skippy to the OF
3. Trade Ryan Ludwick for relief help.
4. Sign Matt Holliday.
I agree with #4
But, why would you move Skip’s bat to left? Especially with the strides he made defensively at second? Also, why, when it looks like we may not sign Holliday, would you trade Ludwick for the marginal value of a bullpen arm? That makes no sense to me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Additionally
Johnson is no defensive whiz at 2b
by stevesommer05 on Dec 14, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
And his bat is not much greater
Go Broncos!!
by from First to Third on Dec 14, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
That would be cutting off their nose to spite their face
A Cardinals team with Holliday instead of Ludwick is only marginally better and a lot poorer.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
I think you’re making a lot of kinda marginal moves there. I like Johnson but it seems all of a sudden that he’s only a marginal upgrade over Skip, and presumably he’ll cost somewhere in the ballpark of what Ludwick’s making this year. Still, I’d try to find a spot for him. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to give him some reps at 3B over the summer and see if he can be a LH DeRosa-style platoon/super-utility guy for slightly less money.
Trading Ludwick when his value is depressed by a poor season (and for a reliever, no less) makes no sense whatsoever to me. If we’re just looking to clear some salary space, there has to be a better way to do it. Which reliever would you want? IMO it’d have to be a young, cost-controlled one with a great deal of talent (to be worth a potentially above-average OFer), and I don’t see too many teams with a surfeit of those sort of players. Oakland’s about the only one I can think of.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:14 AM EST up reply actions
Dunno....
I think we’re pretty moooch set with Skipster at 2B, no need for KJ. And I would not trade our main power man behind Pujols for a reliever, unless he’s a young, cost-cowtrolled lights-out closer (good luck!). #4 would be nice, though, as long as we’re not on the hook for 7+ years.
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Um no
That sounds like a much worse idea. What is the LaRussa fetish with putting middle infielders in the outfield?
What is JMedwick's fetish with putting middle infielders (Skippy) in the outfield?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 14, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
You mean putting
a player with part of one years professional experience playing 2nd (vs. almost 9 years of professional experience in the outfield) back into the outfield.
Clearly that is a radical idea…
It's a poor use of his ability
His bat plays okay at second. It doesn’t play well in LF, and it’s not like he was blowing the world away defensively in LF, either.
KJ has played LF before too
Good UZR in a small sample size.
by stevesommer05 on Dec 14, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Schu is a below-average fielding 2B who can play LF competently
Johnson is a below-average fielding 2B who can play LF competently.
Apples and apples.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:15 AM EST up reply actions
Ugh. . .
Neither Skippy’s bat nor his glove play particularly well in LF. That’s part of what makes the Skippy to 2B move so brilliant. Essentially the Birds took a very good 4th OF tweener and turned him into an asset by making him a 2B.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I was all for #1 last offseason
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
ugh....
Skippy does not have the bat to play in the OF.
And we have a dearth of power-hitting corner outfielders so why would we trade Ludwick for what we do have (or is relatively easy to acquire), which is bullpen arms.
I do agree with #4 though.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 14, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Top 20
I was also surprised to see Steven Hill in the top 20 when Brian Anderson is not. If you’re giving Daryl Jones credit because of injuries, don’t you have to do that same for Anderson? Seems like this was something that must have been overlooked by John — maybe it will change by the time the book comes out.
Other thoughts:
- It’s nice to finally see someone give Stock some credit. Maybe he hits his way out of being a catching prospect, but he’s still a pitching prospect at that point, and one that can probably hit well for a pitcher to boot. He’s only 19 and I think his ceiling is as high as any prospect we’ve had in our system the last 5 years. This will be an interesting year for him — he’s either going to make it or break it as a catcher by the end of this year, imo.
- I thought maybe Descalso would be a solid B, but I can see his struggles at AAA affecting his grade a bit. I would venture to say the org values him more than Sickle’s does though.
- If Stock moves to the mound, starting pitchers make up 4 of the top 5 prospects in the system, although only one will probably make any kind of impact in 2010, and only 1 other in 2011. It’s nice to have homegrown pitching prospects that could possible make major league impact, considering the team has only graduated two good ones (Morris and Wainwright), and one headcase, (Ankiel) to the majors in the last 15 years.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i am with Dan in that i thought Anderson was always overrrated
i never saw him as the top 3 or 4 prospects in our system as everyone had rated him mostly becasue i had seen him play so much in Springfield and never came away impressed. but somehow he became underrated. there is no way he shouldnt be in the top 20 in a year that is as down as this for the farm.
that being said, he has no future in this organization that puts so much emphasis on catcher defense. I would say try to send him in a package to KC for DeJesus but they are set at catcher for the next 2 years…
i agree with you on Descalso in that the org sees more value in him and i dont hold his struggles in AAA against him yet because he was screwed around with so much there with regular playing time and positions.
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
"KC for DeJesus but they are set at catcher for the next 2 years…"
really?
I don’t see why they wouldn’t consider using Anderson as a backup to Kendall for the second half of 2010 and all of 2011 (where he could take over the starting spot). Not sure he could net DeJesus, but I like the idea.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
Except
We didn’t graduate Wainwright. We got him in a trade from Atlanta. (For JD Drew I think)
by Mulliganstew on Dec 14, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
He might have been a transfer student...
but he graduated from Cardinals U.
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He came out of our minor league system
We got him in the Drew trade along with Jason Marquis, but he pitched in our minor league system for the final two years in the minors before making his debut in the bullpen in 2006. He was a B+ grade prospect in the Braves system at the time and had just completed his first full season in AA ball — but I would still count him as “our” prospect.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I'm Not as Down...
…on our baby Birds as some on this site, I think we have some decent potential – ok, no Prince Alberts among them, but I think Freese, Garcia, Boggs, Jones, and even Craig Allen Allen Craiga Allen Craig…ummm Craig, that guy, even he has the potential to be good, useful players if given the chance – Fernando Vinas, if not Chase Utleys, if u know what I mean. And sometimes god players can develop into better ones after some seasoning. If we can’t sign Holliday, we cud do worse than Freese and, ummm, that guy in left, and maybe spending the Holliday moolah on someone like John Lackey (can u imagine a rotation of Carp/Waino/Lackey/Penny/Lohse!!!) and maybe a reliever or two. The safe bet is to only rely on 1 rook in 1 position, I know, but this cow just doesn’t see the value out there at third for the moolah that is going to be better than Freese (even with his DWI), and not a lot of decent options in LF – is Johnny Damon, Mike Cameron, or Ryan Church going to be that much better than…ummm….errr…well, you know who.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
i hope they are looking
at church
seems he could deliver good value, albeit with limited ceiling
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
There's just not much cream at the top
That’s the problem with our system right now. It could look very, very different, for good or bad, by this time next year. If Miller and Stock both play well, they could both be A-/B+ guys by next year, Garcia may have graduated to the majors as a fifth starter, and Descalso, Jones, and Lynn could all by B/B+ guys if they have good seasons. I’m also hoping the Sanchez, Kelly, and Bittle are going to move quickly through the system to replace some of the relief pitching depth. Ottavino could also surprise this year if he ever gets his secondary pitches figured out — kid has a big league fastball for sure. We should also have a small shitload of picks in the top 100 in the coming amateur draft, and the Cards have also shown that they will be players in the Latin American market if the right type of picks are there. Luhnow really hasn’t disappointed yet with scouting and player development, so hopefully our system will look much better in December 2010.
All that said, if nobody has a breakout year, it’s possible that we might have a bottom five farm system again next year. I think we have a lot of guys who are getting graded based on potential, and guys like Jones could really fall off the radar if they don’t produce this year.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
There's an interesting discussion in the
comments section for Sickels’ post about how the Cards’ farm system is so deep with C level prospects with upside that it’s a deceptively low ranking.
I think there’s a lot to be said for that school of thought. After all, Skippy and Molina would probably have never been tought of as A or B prospects, yet they are both quality major leaguers.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
There was a lot of discussion on the actual discussion thread prior to his Top 20 post about the same sorts of things, and I think that those arguments have merit. Mo and Luhnow have both stated that they wanted to develop a farm system that could provide players from depth and would allow them to make mid-season moves for players, similar to what Atlanta has done over the past 20 years. I think that they are headed in the right direction with how they’ve handled the draft the last couple of seasons — they just need some of these #1 picks to pan out.
FWIW, Wainwright, Pujols, Molina, Skip, Boog, and Rasmus are pretty good turnouts from our farm system over the last decade. Nothing to really complain about there, other than the lack of good quality starting pitchers which I think needs to be addressed.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
yeah
it’s remarkable how many guys who weren’t even really considered prospects have come up and been productive major leaguers. Boog, Skip, Duncan, KMac were all C-type guys or virtual non-prospects, and all have provided something of substance in the last few years.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:22 AM EST up reply actions
they're hungry
and La Russa’s system ensures a lot of work for the bench players. he constantly works (well, except for, say, Thurston) not to expose their weaknesses. The role players get more time to figure it out (well, except for, say, The Hoff) and then there is pixie dust.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Quite a Mooving comment
(sorry MooCow – couldn’t resist – I won’t do it again)
Actually, if Holliday signs, we have our impact players for the foreseeable future with AP, Matt, and (hopefully) Colby. While more impact is always better, a lot of low-cost filler (how I read our system) is not the worst thing. And, don’t forget we will have more than the usual number of high draft picks this year – perhaps we can get some future impact players there.
That's my hope.
The 2010 draft’s numerous picks will help us to jump-start the system.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
we have lots of low-upside, low-risk types
which are pretty valuable IMO. I’m more than happy for us to graduate our #4 and #5 SP, most of our bullpen, and 3 or 4 starting position players from our farm going forward, for them all to be solid, league-average types, and then to use our payroll to pay for star players externally. I think that works. There are only a few teams with deep enough systems to bring through both star players AND a lot of solid role players, and those are often teams with years of mediocrity allowing them to generate tons of really high draft picks (Tampa Bay).
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:19 AM EST up reply actions
One thing I think gets lost (possibly, I'm presuming here) in these farm ranking discussions...
is that the farm system exists primarily to serve the interests of the parent club. A “great” farm system that does not translate somehow into improving the major league club is almost worthless. At least, it feels like people talk about the farm systems as if they have some merit on their own, divorced from the major league teams. It could be that this is all implied in these discussions, but sometimes it really seems like this point is forgotten.
The Cardinals are saving a lot of money by having adequate, capable “depth” guys who can fill a spot on the roster for cheap, even if they’re not stars.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
they're not stars
they’re So’s
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
He really needs to get to work on that Japanese cuisine/Baseball bar/Nipponamericana fusion joint.
It can’t not succeed.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
maybe that's why he's going back to Japan
for research
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Dan, I've got that feeling on Damon too
But, I saw yesterday where Boras is seeking a three or four year deal for the 36 year old. I know, no way anyone gives him that, but I would be highly disappointed with anything over two years and even that would be hard to swallow.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Manny Ramirez II?
My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier
Mather update pls?
I always forget he exists, then I realize some horrible injury occurred. When, if ever, should i look our for the man they call “bombs”?
Exactly!
We might have Joey Bombs in LF, if he can bounce back. If we can’t spend the moolah on a premium player like Holliday, why spend it on lesser goods?
9/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
down on Joey
Long swing and problems staying healthy. Plus he didn’t exactly light the world on fire after returning from injury in 2009. Granted only 65 pa’s but his OPS was .691 at AA post injury. I think Mather has to go to AAA and reestablish himself. I’d like to see McGwire work with Mather and his swing to see what he can do with him.
Mather
I get the feeling we’ll shell out 5-6 years for Holliday, then Craig and Bombs will become 100 RBI guys. Just a feeling, though.
In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.
"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.
"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.
"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG
getting 600 PA hitting behind Pujols
will make anyone a 100 RBI guy…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Aaron Miles?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
if that's the case,
then one of them will take over for Ludwick in two years in RF and we’ll take the draft picks from his Type B/A? Departure via Free Agency.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 14, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
if he were a FA in '09
he would’ve easily qualified as type a
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Dan, I must say I'm disappointed.
I come to this site looking for one act plays, ghost sightings, and for pics of mythical creatures. This analysis stuff can be had at most other cardinals sites. Don’t get me wrong, the occasional stat thrown around is always fun, but I just wish you could write to more of the geek crowd sometimes.
* is an Asshat
by RiverRat on Dec 14, 2009 10:58 AM EST reply actions 16 recs
Troll! No, wait... Rec!
I mean… I don’t even know what I mean anymore… well played, sir.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
rec'd & flagged
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
only you could get away with that
and you do know that the people who post these things about the absurdity of the comments are mostly talking about you, right?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
if it's not me, i'd hate to meet the poor bastard who they are talking about
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
just because you're the bman doesn't give you the right to steal
i stole that first fair & square damnit
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i'm not proud of that, but it brought me & others great joy
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Fellow VEBers
is it not every man’s goal to steal the panda gif. once in their life?
I am the Batman
you know, i sometimes do wonder if dan gets angry emails about me
i’ve gotten pic happy this off season from boredom, and it’s not like i’m viva, 4stick or the other folks who are uber smart when it comes to stats & stuff. i took a look over the weekend at some stuff & i saw i sure to talk a lot, yet i never really say anything
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I don't get any e-mails
I keep begging them to, but people who are bothered by the direction of the site invariably put their concerns here.
Some people just want to be jerks.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Dec 15, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
^ where Joe Strauss can see them and appreciate them.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i'm sorry dude, i'll lay low & try my best to not rock the boat any more
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
if everyone who pops off about the site here really is talking about me
which i’m not sure they are, then would it be such a bad idea to dial back the pics? i’m just sayin, if it causes dan, red & az fewer headaches it would probably be in my best interest & the entire community’s if i voluntarily cut down on them.
i know i come off as a bad ass loner who doesn’t want or need anyone, but that doesn’t mean i should go around giving everyone the finger.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I think you should chill on the photos.
Be really choosey. It’ll have the most effect that way.
Now with extra feisty!
That's true.
Too many pictures takes away the effect of the really good ones.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Centiquid sighting.
I come to this site looking for…… pics of mythical creatures.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:46 AM EST up reply actions
wasn't there some sort of sunday deadline attached to the holliday offer?
and a day later no news. seems kind of silly for mo to say publicly that he expected a reply by sunday and then let boras make him look like a moron.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
How do you know they haven't come back to Mo?
You don’t. They may have had tea at 2 AM last night for all you know.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Didn't happen
And as proof, I offer that Strauss hasn’t teased it via Twitter.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
you are right, i don't know that
but i would have expected some sort of leak that “progress was being made” or “details are being discussed” or something of that sort. what do you think is going on?
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Dec 14, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I personally think. . .
that the Cards are playing hardball to the extent that they should.
I don’t think that there are any other players for Holliday’s services at this point.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
i think boston is in
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think so
if the lackey news is true. I’m basing this off of my complete lack of knowledge about what is going on with boston’s payroll
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
well yeah
i posted that prior to knowledge of the lackey deal
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i know
posted before I read the whole thread. . . saw what you said below and felt like an asshat
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
well
i guess we’re all just wearing our asses on our heads today
at least we have company
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Goold article on Duncan's interview yesterday
In case you missed the radio interview, Derrick just posted a summary at stltoday.com. Some good quotes.
Maybe Dave Duncan should be our hitting coach too?
Well, when you look at the really good clubs in the American League they have one thing that is really pretty common – and that is pitch selection and strike-zone discipline. And what they try to do over there, they really try to work a pitcher. They try to make him throw a lot of pitches by being disciplined. The good offensive clubs in the American League all have that tendency. So if you’re a pitcher who is trying to pitch on the edges all of the time and you don’t control the count, you’re going to have trouble in the American League with most clubs. I think the pitchers that pitch successfully in the American League are basically aggressive pitchers that really pound the strike zone and eliminate that advantage that hitters get when they build up the pitch count and control the count and cause you to get into counts where you have to be predictable.
Damn, I’d love to see that “organizational philosophy” espoused in our organization. Most of the successful AL teams do this very, very well, as Duncan points out. I hope the he gets in Big Mac’s ear with stuff like this because I think that it’s important to the offensive success of our ballclub going forward.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Funny. . .
the “book” on the differences between the AL and the NL have completely reversed field from about 25-30 years ago.
Back in the day, the NL was always considered to be the “fastball” league and the AL was considered to be the league where pitchers were more content to nibble. IIRC, one of the reasons proferred for that difference was that the umpires wore different chest protectors in the different leagues, which led the NL umps to call the high strike more often as compared to the AL umps. Of course, that was back in the days before PitchFX when players all tied onions to their belts, so there was no way to quantify whether that was true or not.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
But they couldn't get the nice white onions, because of the war.
All they had were the biiig yellow ones. So anyway, I needed a nickel to take the trolley to Shelbyville. In those days, nickels had bees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter, they’d say. So I took the trolley over to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
haha
rec
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
A rec for you, Grampa
Albertofstan.
F* Yeah!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 14, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing
I wonder about Dave Duncan coaching his sons as hitters as they were growing up. One of the most impressive things about Chris Duncan (you know, when he was healthy and was a good hitter) was his discipline.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
even when
he was unhealthy and a bad hitter.
Yeah, I'm surprised by how right you are about that
I went and looked up his fangraphs page, and he always had an above average BB% in the majors. his lowest was 9 point something, the other years he was in the 12 to 13 range usually.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i don't see damon coming unless he gets a 3 year deal
and I say no way to that…to long of a commitment for an older guy who already can’t throw and has slowed considerably
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Chien-Ming Wang talk?
The Yankees let him become a free agent. He’s coming off shoulder surgery, which means he won’t be ready until likely May.
However, at one point, Wang and Webb were discussed in the same breath as having the best sinkers in the game, so he is obviously in Duncan’s pitch to contact wheelhouse and a perfect fit for the Cards ON PAPER.
Given that he would be a formerly successful AL pitcher coming to the NL, he would make for an interesting high-reward sign.
Unfortunately, I don’t think he would want to live in St. Louis or any other city without a significant Taiwanese population, so going anywhere not on the East or West Coast is not an option, whether the Cardinals can pay him or not.
Unfortunately, I don’t think he would want to live in St. Louis or any other city without a significant Taiwanese population, so going anywhere not on the East or West Coast is not an option, whether the Cardinals can pay him or not.
What makes you think that? I’m guessing he’ll go where he’s paid. If he was so concerned about being surrounded by Taiwanese people, he probably would’ve stayed in Taiwan. I think he’s concerned with playing baseball and being paid to do it.
haha
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i don't imagine he's going to sign until after the season starts and he's healthy...
I’m sure his agent has no desire to shop him at his lowest value.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 14, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
And They're...
…signing everyone not named Chris Lambert to a cowtract these days…
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I don't think he's had good Houston experiences...
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
lackey
is taking a physical for boston
wonder if this takes them out of the holliday sweepstakes. it surely reduces their influence and boras’ leverage, i’d say
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
ken rosenthal says
~5/82
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
could it possibly be
that with the economy as it is (premium box rentals down) and that more teams are focusing on growing their own, that we are finally seeing a drop of interest in free agents overall, perhaps compounded by boras’ approach in holliday’s case?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
moneyball
and billy beane taking over the world?
joe morgans unite!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
but yeah
i do think that a shift toward player devlopment is starting to affect the fa market
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It will be interesting to see how the next CBA affects that.
There are enough players that are starting to write “no arbitration clauses” into their contracts that there is some discussion that the rules might be changed in the next CBA. That might also affect how FA are viewed in the future. I think the surprising increase in payrolls over the last decade have definitely put more organizations into a “build from within” mode. I think Holliday’s situation is clearly making that point this year.
it's also just not a good market for holliday
he would have been better served being a FA last year
also, i wonder how many of the big spenders are relatively holding back and waiting for when albert hits free agency
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
of course
THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!
/not sorry for YELLING
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 14, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
The rules are definitely going to get changed in the next CBA
The only question is whether they eliminate compensation altogether or just tweak it. Juan Cruz being a Type A was a joke.
Not afraid to nitpick
Agreed
I doubt it gets eliminated altogether, but something needs to be tweaked. They need better overall statistical models to rate relievers — some of these middle relievers get the fucking shaft with the Elias rankings, like the aforementioned Juan Cruz.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
It should just go by total contract value or summat.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Dec 14, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd for summat
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
that with the economy as it is (premium box rentals down) and that more teams are focusing on growing their own, that we are finally seeing a drop of interest in free agents overall, perhaps compounded by boras’ approach in holliday’s case? Holliday’s poor ability to hit American League pitching, declining defensive skills and poor post-season?
Fair or not, I suspect that all of those things are involved. I also think that the Yankees would rather go with the affordable, shorter-term (Boras’ demands be damned), in-house option in Damon, rather than risk a 6+ year, umpty-million dollar contract on a guy who 1) has hit far better in the NL than he has in an admittedly small sample-size in the AL, 2) is of an age and body-type where skills can start to erode rather precipituosly, particularly when they already have a buttload of payroll tied up in Tex and Sabathia. Even the Yankees have a budget.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
The Red Sox. . .
admittedly, would seem to make more sense as a Holliday suitor than the Yankees, but I think they have more internal options with their payroll.
Of course, the advantage with the Red Sox signing Holliday is that when he can’t hit before the All-Star break, they will trade him + all of his salary to us for Julio Lugo, whereupon Holliday will OPS 950 for the rest of the season.
5. Profit.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this was probably mo's plan all along
low ball boras to get boston involved and convince holliday to be bad enough in boston that we can get him for free
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
If the Sawks sign Scutaro, Lackey, and Holliday (all Type A's)
The Blue Jays and Angels are gonna be a little peeved about their compensation.
f em
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
You'd think...
it might… It would put their 2010 payroll at around $140 million, up a bit from 2009. Not sure who they could move, other than Papelbon, to get that back down.
MB for LF in 2010!
yeah, but even so
removing pbon’s salary doesn’t make room for holliday i wouldn’t think
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
plus they just paid $9M of Lowell's salary
And still want to sign Beltre also. I also just heard they offered Aroldis Chapman $15.5M
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
they may have to pay all $12M of Lowell's salary
if the Rangers dont like that he needs thumb surgery…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
lol
their salary of players not playing for them will probably exceed the marlins’ real salary
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It's ok though
when the put in the monster seat they opened a franchise of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing… so they don’t have anything to worry about.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Anyone make their own pasta?
I am looking for a good egg noodle recipe. I have made it in the past and remember the ingredients just not proportions.
I do, but I
normally just do a search @ Foodtv.com to get my recipe. I’m at work, but I have a couple written down at home. Do you have a rolling machine? Best $20 I’ve spent on EBAY.
* is an Asshat
YES!!!!!!
After you use a machine you will never hand roll again. Here’s a link to the same type I got. It’s apparently the standard in Italy. Super easy to use, comes with cutters for fettuccine, and spaghetti. I also got a tray for doing Rav’s that was maybe $15, and it cuts way back on time prepping.
* is an Asshat
I just use the attachment for my Kitchen Aid mixer
that thing works like a champ.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I bought the mechanical
before I had gotten a mixer. They both accomplish the same goal though. You can go from dough to noodles in less than 10 minutes though. I worked my ass off with a rolling pin more than once, and the roller is the only way to go.
* is an Asshat
The thing that I like about the attachment
is that I can adjust the width of the roller in the middle so I can keep rolling them thinner and thinner and thinner, which is nice when you’re making a lasagna and want very thin layers of noodles. Not sure if the one you have has the same thing.
The mixer attachment also can be adjusted for speed, which I’ve found to come in handy.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i already own a kitchen aid mixer
So looking on craigslist for the roller and cutter
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I think the attachment is $30
or so at Bed Bath
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
From Moosewood Cookbook
2 large eggs—let them warm to room temp.
1 1/2 cups of flour (I usually use 1/2 cup whole wheat, 1 cup all purpose)
Put flour in a bowl. Create a “well” in the middle, then pour in the eggs. Mix together in the bowl, then knead the dough on a flat surface. Let the dough rest for an hour before rolling out.
I use the Atlas Italian pasta cutter by Marcarto—it’s great.
Make about three servings. I have to double the recipe for our family of five.
??

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
reply fail
re: rolling machine
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i do own one of those though
I roll my own cigarettes
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
it's really amazing
how such a simple contraption can roll such perfect cigarettes and the like
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
"and the like?"
Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth.
by RosevilleRedbird on Dec 14, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
like you know
if you needed say, some grass or oats tightly contained in some sort of paper cylinder, it would work for that, too
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Strauss is smart
He was just driving up the price of his keywords on pretweeting.com.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
Just goes to show you...
there are a bunch of bored white collar workers out there…
MB for LF in 2010!
Rotoworld: the arrest took place in Maryland.
uh huh.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i bet he was leaving west port in maryland heights & that's where he got picked up
almost every night the cops sit there & wait for cars to leave & pull them over. i’ve seen it probably a thousand times. which if that’s the case he’s even a bigger moran than i thought because everyone knows that’s what the cops do.
either way he’s screwed. there’s no way the Cards will take another PR hit & not drop the hammer on this guy. he’s not a star, he’s not a big name, no one is going to defend him. not with this teams recent history. he’s as good as gone. i don’t blame the team one bit, if i was DeWitt i’d do the same thing.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Hahah. Come on man.
“moran?” People are gonna start posting that picture.
it's a meme
we’re appropriating it
or… gdm is.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
it totally fits & works here
everyone knows the Cards recent history, every player & FO person should always be on guard to not give the team another black eye, but he wasn’t & he didn’t. so he’s a moran.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Hamsterdam, Maryland? Impossible
ain’t no thug on the block that’s gonna catch a charge slinging or driving their drop-top after sipping some hen in Hamsterdam. By the way, what the hell is there in Maryland Heights anyway that would give him a reason to be there. No limit poker room at Harrah’s I will condone, but if he was at Home nightclub he is an officially registered douche.
OT: Controlling Skip
How long is Skip under team control? I rather like the 2B experiment so far, but just wondering how long it will be before we have to start considering replacement options. He’s in his arb years, right?
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
According to...
…Cot’s, through the 2012 season, at which time I’ll be more than happy to wish him luck in his future endeavors.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
A very bookmark-worthy site,
is Cot’s.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
we can't do a damn thing without spants, can we
…probably a good thing
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
there are some things she wished we would though
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Depends on the type of bean to start with
But 195-205 is safe. I’ll go on the colder side as it helps to keep it from getting too bitter.
I, like Jimmy, go gourmet because when I drink it I want to taste it.
Not afraid to nitpick
You know Joker....
It took me a week to figure out that that was a Pulp Fiction reference. I need to watch that again apparently.
* is an Asshat
my user name compels me to post this
We plan on cooking the hot dogs this year! Well, most of them. And we’re going to open another new club that doesn’t have any views of the field, so when Ryan Theriot is being picked off second base again, you won’t have to see it because you’ll be too busy waiting in line for a $17 Heineken! Did we mention Rudy Jaramillo?
sometimes cubs fans are good for something.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That was amazing...
I started tearing up from laughter at several points. The Cubs are a very rich source of humor in my life. I really enjoy it that way.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/pirates-cards-astros-interested-in-kelly-johnson.html
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I hope we're only "interested" to jack up the price
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
i agree JD, i don't get the fascination around here for him
every time i’ve seen him play i was underwhelmed
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
He was awesome in 2007
But he’s been on a steady decline since. Last season, he fell off a cliff, to the tune of a .224/.303/.389/.692 slash line.
(Although, as his b-r page sponsors note, he did rake in September)
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I love DeRosa
But if we could get Johnson instead on the cheap, I’m all for it. Probably just another Holliday backup for now, though.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
Utility Man
I think that is a very enticing role for him, if the price is right.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
so...another boring slow day.
I wish Boras would get back to the Cardinals so we could at least discuss his monumental, unequivocal, flat-out laughing straight to their faces rejection. In the meantime, did anyone see the Dexter season finale last night? I don’t know if we should avoid spoilers or not out of courtesy, but all I can say is that HFS never applied to something more aptly.
avoid spoilers, please
i haven’t seen it yet
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I thought that the season finale to SOA was pretty damn good.
I didn’t see that ending coming at all.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Sons of Anarchy
and I should have specified prime time bracket… That was my bad.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
If there was ever a bona fide badass show, SOA is it.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
but really
the ending of episode 11 was pretty hfs, too. in a more suspenseful manner
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
My friend at the end of the episode
“I think that was the best hour of television I have ever watched.”
Definitely a bit of a mind****.
i've never seen dexter, but i love californication
that was a good finale last night as well
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
ha...I love Californication as well
but the reasons for that are a bit different….and mostly related to the boob-per-episode quotient multiplied by the Sarandon-daughter-factor. All I can say is, give up fresh fruit or something if you have to, just pay the extra amount for showtime and hbo package. So worth it.
if i don't find a gig soon, i'll have to cut back on everything even more than i already have
this fresh fruit, what is that anyway? does it taste as good as the bacons?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
There have been two shows to ever make me thing "HFS!"
The Shield and that finale.
Not afraid to nitpick
The Shield
What a fucking great show.
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Dec 14, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
That was such a great show
I still say when Vic was listing his stuff for immunity was one of the best scenes I’ve ever seen on television.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
In Gordo's chat today
he couldn’t give what the offer was, but basically said it was a lowball and will be rejected. At one point, Gordo said something like “the Cards made an offer so they can say they made an offer.” On to Plan B.
yeah but
yeah but yeah but
gordo is a moran
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
he's not even a baseball writer, really
he’s a football writer
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
ding-ding-ding - epic three way trade
cliff lee to the mariners, halladay to the phils, ? to the jays.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
wow
just saw that
wtf are the phillies thinking? halladay is not that much of an upgrade and he’s going to cost way more. idiotic
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
where?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
why is this jon heyman tweet different from all other jon heyman tweets?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
so it's all just still speculation at this point then?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Just double-checking, I assume
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
guessing lee was not willing to do an extension? at least not on their terms?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
i guess
either that or the phillies bought the halladay hype or got gamed by snuffaluffagus or whatever the gm’s name is
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
That has to be it.
Otherwise, this decision is incredibly stupid. Actually, I think it’s incredibly stupid anyhow. Lee at $10MM in 2010 and then for about the same as Halladay for his younger years seems much more palatable to me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
and he's older and more injury-prone!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I agree
It’s a net gain of 1 WAR (give or take). There are far cheaper ways to add 1 WAR to your team.
I assume that they made this trade, though, because they didn’t think they’d be able to sign Lee, and that Halladay has already said he would sign long term. In that case, it’s okay.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
1 WAR may even be pushing it
This deal just smacks of philly stupidness
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
It's like the Mulder trade...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
my eyes are watering for some reason
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
my bowels just started to rumble
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
yes, for a split second
there I recalled some phantasm of sorts, had a name like Ha…Har….Hare…I dunno. But then I blacked out, hit my head on the computer, and vomited all over my keyboard, and the memory faded
by mattyp on Dec 14, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
brian barton's brother is all
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I don't think Kiko Calero was a major loss as the centrepiece of that deal.
I’m pretty certain we didn’t give up much beyond him and Barton.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
Jack Wilson
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
heh
After shortstop Jack Wilson arrived in Seattle in a trade last summer, it didn’t take long for him to know he wanted to stay.
“About an hour, hour and a half,” Wilson said by telephone with a chuckle from his home in Southern California on Friday.
That moment was documented in true VEB style on the best night of the year.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
In related news,
I applied for a front office internship with the Mariners. Here’s to hoping!
I applied with the Cards and the Red Sox too
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
good luck!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
good luck
bring us embarrassing holiday photos
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Hell you could probably
apply for GM in Pittsburgh, and have a good shot at getting it. Go big or go home is what I say…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Huntington actually isn't bad
I’d shoot for the Royals job before any others…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
That's a valid point
But who wants to GM a DH team? And I’m assuming any team rumored to be interested in Dicky will probably have a GM opening soon.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Well, being a junior in college
I’ve been thinking a lot about what I want to do in life… what my real passion is, and it always comes back to baseball.
So I give a shot. If I can get an in, that’d be perfect. If not, then I’ll go to Wall St. and makes lots and lots of money :)
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
If you make it...
in baseball, best of luck to you. If you end up on Wall Street, go fuck yourself.
(j/k sort of…)
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wouldn't it be nice
to have a soul and not work on Wall Street?
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Warren Buffet has a soul
I’ll be like him, k?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Not to get political but...
Warren Buffett buys companies with growth potential and attempts to make them better, more efficient, etc… Most of the guys on Wall Street are simply leaches. They don’t produce value of any kind to anyone.
MB for LF in 2010!
What did the guy who lives here ever do to you.
<a href="http://
View Larger Map" >
fail!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
That was entirely my point
Not to mention he’s donates has donated BILLIONS to charity
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
what do i have to do to become a freaking charity?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
kill me now
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
ah...
Buffett isn’t a Wall Street guy, at least I don’t consider him to be… as for charity, who cares? I have a lot more respect for someone making $10 an hour putting a nickel in one of those Salvation Army kettles than for someone with $60 billion giving away half his bankroll.
MB for LF in 2010!
What the hell is wrong with my typing today?
This is what happens when I browse VEB while teaching myself ANOVA
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i don't think he was arguing with you, lol
just correcting your spelling
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
And strippers only get into it
‘to pay for college’…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
HFS ®
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Tell the Rolling Stone my last words are "I'm On Drugs!!!"

(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and I'm just glad I can contribute
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Mariners are my AL team
I love teams with great D
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Man the Phillies are really just DYING
to have Halladay.
mariners making out like bandits
what are the phils thinking?
its a video game trade
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
lessee what the jays get back before declaring a victor.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
can we at least
call the phillies losers here?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Depends.
We don’t know that Lee is going to Seattle for sure at this point.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah
well, calling the phillies stupid is predicated on them trading lee for halladay and prospects
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Imagine if the Phillies are keeping Lee
I love me some Carp and Waino, but Doc and Cliff is a better 1-2
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know.
I think it’s about equal. I know it’d be nerve-wracking to watch…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
+1
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
By WAR Doc and Cliff were both better than Carp and Waino last season
Imagine an NLCS between us and the Halladay-Lee Phillies
Total runs scored: 11
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
by WAR
your mom shut up stupid
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
WAR Criminal!
To The Hague with you, jd!
I am channeling Jeremy Greenhouse over at THT:
3. Do not place undue trust in WAR for pitchers. First off, pitcher defense and hitting aren’t included. This should be righted ASAP. Then there are the more nuanced issues like how leverage is accounted for and the conversion of FIP to runs. Personally, I’d trust the calculations of David Gassko’s pitching runs created or StatCorner’s WAR well before I would FanGraphs’ WAR.
4. Do not cite WAR as a measure of skill. WAR measures production. FanGraphs has a lot more granular data if you’re trying to assess skill. And if you’re going to try to make a projection of WAR, regress each component individually. Also, players with negative WAR still may have value if they excel at a certain skill that can be leveraged.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Aw.
I’d say I’m past SABR-n00b status, but I’m still lerning (mispel on perpuss)
I still stand by my assertion
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Not objective.
I’m a rank sentimentalist of sorts when it comes to these types of comparisons. It clouds my assessment. Disclosure: I liked the Morris-Woody vs. Schilling-Unit matchup in 2001…for the Cardinals.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
It seems like Fangraphs does account pitcher hitting for a pitcher's WAR
To my calculation, Adam Wainwright was a 6.2 WAR pitcher last season. However, Fangraphs says he was a 5.7 WAR player. I wondered what was wrong and found that he was a negative 0.5 WAR hitter.
I calculated another starters in NL.
Chris Carpenter : 6.0(pitching WAR) – 0.4(hitting WAR) = 5.6(overall WAR)
Tim Lincecum : 8.9(pitching) – 0.7(hitting) = 8.2(overall)
Dan Haren : 6.4(pitching) – 0.2(hitting) = 6.2(overall)
I think they does consider pitcher hitting when they calculate a pitcher’s WAR.
Cardinals fan from Korea
by FreeRedbird on Dec 15, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
SSS
one of Carp’s at-bats was that grand slam, his first home run; plus his injury meant they wouldn’t run him out to hit more than necessary. AW has been used a lot as a pinch-hitter, and they PH’d almost all the pitchers a whole lot this year. late-in-games, getting desperate with the bench, higher leverage = might affect WAR more?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
It's nowhere near equal
From an injury perspective OR performance. Waino isn’t at Lee/Halladay territory. This isn’t a knock on Waino, it’s credit to Lee/Halladay.
Not afraid to nitpick
fair enough
though i was just saying the mariners are getting a better value than the phillies
will be very interesting to see what the jays are getting
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
and only if forced trading is on
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I dunno about that
If they’re donating say Morrow, Triunfel, Saunders and Aumont I don’t think that would be a win.
Not afraid to nitpick
one things for sure - with the angels losing lackey and figgins and all the horse trading the M's have done
they better win the AL West this year, esp. if lee is only staying for 2010.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
+1
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
But they gained Matsui
(Joking.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
true enough
if they are giving that much up, then both the Ms and the Phils are morons…and the jays are genius
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
I hope that Mo at the very least inquired about being involved
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
(That is, if he even knew what was happening)
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
We have nowhere near the prospects to get this type of deal done
Talks, I assume, start and end with Colby
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
or waino
both would make me cry (as i wear my colby jersey t)
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Might as well just see what they're asking, if they're even the slightest bit interested
Wouldn’t hurt
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
No, you're absolutely right
It’s just 1) We don’t have the prospects
2) If we did, it would KILL KILL KILL our farm system for a 1-year player who isn’t guaranteed to sign an extension
3) I think there are diminishing returns when it comes to pitching. We’d get a higher return investing in a hitter
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
comments on lookout landing
pretty priceless
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
someone thinks Glaus = veteran leadership
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i saw that
and guffawed
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
he was always leading the pack
at the buffet
that’s the kind of leadership colby could use
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
oh Santa
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I want to feel like them
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
we've had our moment
that’s why it was our summer to enjoy
but really I can’t see any deal like that which wouldn’t cost us big time. there’s always going to be some bittersweet with any Cards deal
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Especially,
if you are one of those commie faberge egg propagandists.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Adam Dunn collects antiques?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Only those of Russian origin (because he hates America, ya know),
and while he prefers those of Soviet vintage (because he hates democracy and America), he has been known to collect faberge eggs (because he hates baseball, having lived in his mother’s basement for years).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Addendum
King Felix-Lee as 1-2 is pretty friggin fierce
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
It's more than fierce
It will stomp stomp stomp all over your face until you’re the deadest team in town.
i bet Lee is gone before july 31st
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Cliff Lee must be pissed off by all this moving
he’ll go Cliff Fucking Lee on everyone.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Timmy K on wwlnews just said he's not sure it's lee going to seattle
could be ja happ. HFS® if that’s the case
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/24/961406/the-cardinals-acquire-matt
We were not as excited
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
don't put links in the title
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/24/961406/the-cardinals-acquire-matt
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
yeah
bad mysterui!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
It's called realism
They’re acting like they got Cliff Lee for a bucket of baseballs. The price just hasn’t come out yet.
Not afraid to nitpick
missed reply?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Per Baseball prospectus
According to multiple reports, Roy Halladay has been dealt to the Philadelphia Phillies as part of a three team deal. The Phillies will send Cliff Lee to the Seattle Mariners. There are also "a ton of smaller pieces" in this deal, players which I’m told are "top prospects" and "major league guys."
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
as one guy at the good phight said
its a clusterfuck
may not be finalized til tomorrow
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
clusterphuck?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
presenting your 2010 Phillies
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Brad Lidge is a reliable closer!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Lidge vs Franklin?
who would you rather have?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Frankie
I know what his mental deficiencies are, and they’re easily correctable. Dunc claims to know the physical side.
Lidge is like that last tire they change on the ice road — might blow out at any time and throw you off a cliff then bury you in the avalanche.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Lidge, easily
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yep
If Lidge can get it back, he is fucking awesome. Franky…not so much.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
The peak of Franklin was May-August 2009
Serviceable.
The peak of Lidge was 2008. Unhittable.
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
This will be fun to sort out
how many players could a “ton” be
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
i believe a ton is 8 or more
5-7=a lot
3-4= a few
1-2=a couple
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
well a ton is 2000 lbs
so 8-10 200lb guys would make sense :)
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I believe it's more like this
6-7 = a lot
4-5 = several
3 = a few
2 = a couple
1 = straight up
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I bet a "ton" is
Morrow (major league guy) + 3 prospects, Lee + mid-level prospect, Halladay + some scrub big leaguer. That’d make it an 8 player deal.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'd say
Phillies get Halladay
Mariners get Lee, Accardo
Blue Jays get Morrow, Taylor, Aumont, Saunders
In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.
"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.
"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.
"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG
That would be a pretty good haul for Toronto
Morrow and Aumont would just add to their list of kick-ass young pitchers, and Morrow could replace Lidge as their closer next year.
If they can get 4 B or better prospects for Halladay, kudos to them. Now if they could find a way out of that Vernon Wells contract………..
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Vernon Wells is going to haunt their dreams for years to come I' afraid.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
They need to hope he has one good season left in him
So he can rebuild some value. They can eat half the contract than trade him.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
If I'm the Jays...
I hire the best lawyers out there to find a way out of that contract.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Lawyers that good would cost more than the contract.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Still money ahead from a fan base perspective...
Look guys… we had a problem and we went to no expense to fix it. Please buy a hat.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Ha
If that doesn’t build confidence, then I don’t know what would.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
This is why I should be allowed to run a baseball team...
We may suck on the field. But I’d win the battle on the webernets every day of the year.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
King of the Pegacorns eh?
Boldly creating confidence where none exsisted before?
Ducttape for Prez!!!
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
I don't understand the point to get Halladay
If you have to trade Cliff Lee. Cliff Lee is cheaper and also a Cy Young caliber talent. Seems pointless to me.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Simple
Lee: “Screw you guys, I’m hitting the free agent market after 2010 season.”
as opposed to…
Halladay: “Free agent market? Not if you shovel cash my way.”
this.
Apparently the Phils were trying to sign Lee to an extension this off season and the negotiations were going nowhere.
I have no link, just a friend who’s a Phillies fan.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Hmmm.
Doesn’t every option entail shoveling cash the player’s way?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i don't understand why either one of them wouldn't hit FA
it’s a stupid move not too. the wwl is saying Roy is already in the city of brotherly shove working on a new deal. i wouldn’t do that if i was him. he must really want out of canada if he’s willing to not see what the sawx, yanks, dodgers & the other big market teams are willing to pay for him.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
they made his wife cry
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
what?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
yup
this link, so you can read all about how Joel Piñeiro beat the D’Backs by himself.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Morning-Juice-Joel-Pineiro-performs-one-man-sho?urn=mlb,177469
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
damn but I hate those yahoo links
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
oh so she was happily crying, that's not what i thought happened
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
no she wasn't
she was upset
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
i'd guess the chance to play for a contender for his 1st time
is playing on this as well.
and perhaps some phans are sending lots of cheesesteaks
Piez > cheezesteakz
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
cliff lee is allergic to cheez wiz and grade D meat?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
well the phillies staff has way too many lefty starters
Lee
Happ
Hamels
Moyer
is pushing it a bit.
I am the Batman
Moyer is about ready to have his AARP Card sent in the mail
I wouldn’t make long term plans based on his being in your rotation. Lee is as tough on righties as any LHP out there right now.
This has a lot more to do with the fact that Halladay wants to sign long term there than anything else.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
looks like aumont and dominic brown to the jays
Toronto may just be a huge winner
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
well the tweet that was under has gone blank
it was jim bowden’s tweet…other people have quoted it…so the tweet did exist at some point
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
It probably wasn't supposed to be released quite yet
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
It's changed to Aumont and Michael Taylor
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Beat me to it.
That would be a very nice acquisition.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
We do know that the team is looking
for a guy who can spot Franklin and set up. Capps seems like that kind of guy. Seems promising.
I'd want Frankling setting up Capps
Not the other way around
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Given what it took for TLR to remove Izzy from the closer's role,
I imagine any hope of Franklin setting up is not particularly realistic, no matter how badly we would prefer it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'd go for a platoon
they did say they wanted to rest Frankie more
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Capps has "proven closer" juice
I think if he signs and does OK in ST that TLR will have Franklin on a very short leash.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
me too
but franklin had success last year. i think he’s plenty deserving of first shot at it unless we acquire someone like rivera
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
That we be Matt Capps
Franklin: You can be my setup man any time.
Capps: Bullshit! You can be mine.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
...
Motte: hey guys will you please STFU, I’m watching American Idol.
I am the Batman
by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
why would Motte watch idol?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Because everything about Motte is crazy
You don’t expect him to watch Idol, and then you see his shadow in the background of that youtube video where the ’tween girls lose their shit over the results
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
nobody expects Jason Motte!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
well now we need an awesome photoshop job
make all three of them Motte vexed!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
motte, ryan, franklin?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Motte, BR, Cloby
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
colby was a surprise?
thought that was the next generation…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
our chief weapon is surprise, surprise and fear. or rather our two chief weapons
are surprise, fear, and a blazing high-90’s fastball. oh wait, i’ll come in again. . . .
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
"Nobody Expects the Cardinal Inquisition!!"
“Among our weaponry are surprise, fear and surprise, fear surprise, and Albert Pujols ridiculousness…and nice red uniforms ooooooooooooooooooh!’
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I'd want Capps setting up John Smoltz
And Franklin assuming the WonderBrad role
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Completely agree
His peripherals look good, just a bloated HR/FB rate. Due for a huge regression
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i wants him for us bullpen
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
I was hoping Mo would check him out
I’d certainly like to improve the bullpen.
Strass tweets Cards are the forth team...
in the blockbuster: Wainwright to the Blue Jays, Edwin Encarnacion the centerpiece coming back.
Looks like we’ve got a third sacker. The DWI forced our hand.
MB for LF in 2010!
this is my crazy face
i am holding a knife
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
don't everybody do the math all at once.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
haha, is it really from that time?
[is not doing the math]
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
damn it, someone do the math
‘diagnosis’ was around late June http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4298241
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I was told there would be no math
I’m actually on about three different tabs right now. i’d fail 1+5
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
so June is five months on?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I said I would!
pre-emptive That’s what she said.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Well...
Technically the pregnancy back-dates two weeks or so to the woman’s previous menstrual cycle. So you both could be correct.
Now with extra feisty!
Anybody know a good way to clean vomit off a keyboard?
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
B_Walton
Rasmus has new baby daughter, Cards offical statement on Freese arrest at TheCardinalNation message board. #stlcards http://bit.ly/7bJPUz
the Cards are turning into a cliche of themselves
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Bunch of god damn drunk rednecks
no wonder Holliday wants out. Not nearly enough pie to make up for living in Little Sodom.
Albert's next if things don't get cleaned up asap
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
so much for Plan B.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well we now know
Kory isn’t a part of Plan B… thank you thank you I’ll be here all week.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
explaining my punchline doesn't get you the gig, man.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
see, there's another reason i'm never having kids
if i had to give up my M3 & M5 for a stupid kid i’d kill myself first. Denali’s are nice, but there’s now way in hell i’d give up the M’s
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
for some reason I can't read that file
so I picked out the good parts. fake blockquote…
easton714 wrote:
Here’s to hoping that Colby sticks to prune juice and Sierra Mist (or has the sense to have a flipping DD)!!
{parental disapproval, past indiscretions, guiding your kids, etc.}
Fortunately for me three of mine believe getting drunk to be a sign of weakness so I don’t have to put up with much of it.
And Colby with his new baby girl, Rylee fresh on the scene, has vowed to set a glowing example of what a parent should and should not do. And drinking is one of the should nots.
I did text Colby first thing this morning and told him about David. His reply, “Damn, will this hurt his chance of making the team next year”, he asked. My reply was, Man-o-man it sure can’t help.
David’s family are great people and David is a fine young man. I’m sure noone is more embarrassed this morning than is the Freese family so there is no need to pile on. All we all can do is hope our kids make wise choices in this life but sometimes they don’t understand that they are under a microscope and are not like everyone else. [noidea]
{ stuff we already talked about above }
Yes Easton, Colby had a daughter, Rylee, about 5 weeks ago.
She has had a profound affect on him to this point. He sold his M3, [frown]. He sold his M5, [flushed]. He bought a mini van……………………………………….N o he didn’t, I’m just kidding. He did sell the BMW’s and bought a Suburban(Denali) because he wanted the little lady to be up off the ground more in case someone ran into them. [eek] He is like a mother hen.
EDIT – Thanks Austin, I am warming to the grandpa thingy, but there is an adjustment period that I’ve been going through. I am experienced with boys but am down right scared of a little girl. My family is extremely close knit and it has been cool watching all of Colby’s brothers react to a girl around the house. I can’t help but laugh at them all as they treat her like the Queen of Sheba. [biggrin]
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
February can be kind of a dull month...
for someone who isn’t a pitcher or a catcher.
MB for LF in 2010!
how so?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
as far as I know
Colby isn’t married.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
long term relationship I can see
some couples aren’t into marriage
but no word of that either
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
People shouldn't have sex...
unless they’ve acquired the appropriate license from the government.
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
hey man
like you can’t tell people how to live their lives man. (I’m completely on board with people proving they are responsible enough to breed)
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I mean I know it's a slippery slope
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm mostly pissed he ruined my joke
next time, don’t take a shot at a player’s virginity
….though maybe TWSS.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
listen, no one, and that includes me wants a bunch of little fat gingered gdm's
running amok all over this planet. but if the gov’t takes over who gets to have the sex, just kill me now because i’ve got nothing left to live for.
do you want that on you all’s conscience? do you? can you live with that?
what am i saying? of course you bastards can live with that.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
They put the nutritious stuff...
in the centerpiece as a kind of decoration, then eat the shit.
MB for LF in 2010!
come on man, i'm already down, do i really have to be kicked?
and i said fat gingers cody
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
It's like Norman Rockwell dropped acid and then started worshipping Satan
This is the first thing he created when he came to.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
good heavens no
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
not the hot ones
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I heard she was his long term girlfriend (since 2005) but they broke up.
I don’t know if that’s true, I read it on the internet.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
makeup sex?
oops.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Well, unless he turns into Elijah Dukes (in baby-making only), I'll reserve judgment.
Now with extra feisty!
huh?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Yadi's married.
Elijah Dukes is trying to have a child with every woman in America.
Now with extra feisty!
Question:
Does the signing of Lackey preclude an acquisition of Matt Holliday by the Red Sox?
Discuss.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
touche
I missed that part. It could be because my heart stopped when reading some line about us trading Wainwright.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
But seriously...
it puts their payroll at around $140 million, up a little from 2009. The question is can they get that down and/or would they send it past $150 million. The only way to save money is to trade Dice-K or Papelbon, and I don’t know if anyone would pay $8-$10 million next year for those guys.
MB for LF in 2010!
heard they were capping at 140
on mlbtr i think
or maybe that was the phils
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Probably.
They’re not going to want to take on that kind of money. Of course, they’re not going to want the Yankees to get him, either.
Now with extra feisty!
In a perfect world
the mets sign bay
the angels sign matsui
the yankees sign damon
the redsox sign Lackey+trade for Gonzalez
I am the Batman
My thought it was plan B
But there is reports of them also signing Aroldis Chapman and they are interested in Beltre. I don’t see how money is left for Holliday let alone Bay after all of this.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
OK, but first please tell me what preclude means
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Preclude? No.
Make significantly less likely? I’d say (and hope) so.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
6ly i say no, i still think both them & the Yanks are in play till he signs elsewhere
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I'm definitely not going to count them out until he's signed.
I’d rather not let my guard down, only to get crushed.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
No
Because I think they will look at dealing Bucholz for a bat if they sign Lackey. With Lackey, their rotation looks like this:
Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Dice-K
Wakefield
There’s no room for Bucholz there unless they bump Dice-K, and I’m not sure they can get anything valuable in return for him in trade. Bucholz will bring back better trade bait. If the Lowell deal ends up going through, I can see them going hard after Adrian Gonzalez, which would move Youkilis to third base and give them another lefty power bat. My guess is that a combination of Bucholz and Lars Anderson would probably get that deal done. Victor Martinez would move back behind the plate a little more than half time, while DHing some to keep Papi rested as he seems to be less and less able to take 600 PA’s in a season. Their outfield would then go the defensive minded route, maybe picking up Mike Cameron or Coco Crisp on the cheap to play CF and moving Ellsbury to left.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Sorry
that should read:
No
BUT I think they will look at dealing Bucholz….
I really should stop typing in two threads at the same time….
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yea, I was going to say.
I also agree that they’ll probably be looking at a trade.
That rotation just seems excessive otherwise. They also have Bard, Bowden, and Bonser too. Any of them should be OK as a 5th starter.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Bard or Bowden
are ever going to see the rotation, especially Bard. He’s going to end up being the closer next year if they can find someone who will give something back for Papelbon. I’m just not sure anyone wants to trade for a closer that will make ~$9M next year.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Yea, to be honest I haven't kept track of the Red Sox pitching prospects
I just mean they easily have a sixth guy even without Buccholz.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Me too
unfortunately, I don’t think we have the ’spects to trade for anyone at the moment, considering 2 of the top four prospects in our system came out of this years draft and are graded specifically on potential alone.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I have a bad feeling Dice will be "injured" by May
and this problem takes care of itself…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I also forgot
that they’ve offered big bucks to Aroldis Chapman as well, which would make it even easier to deal Bucholz.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
And Boof Bonser is in the mix as well
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
despite knowing nothing about him
i was secretly hoping we acquired him based solely on his name
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I think third base has to be their priority
who’s going to start at 1B if they move Youk to third? I think they’ll get Beltre for 3/30-ish (maybe a bit less) and they’ll be done.
It’s the Yanks and Mets who worry me, still. More so the Mets as they’ve got a protected first round pick. It’d be tough to give up Wallace, Mort and Pietersen for a 2nd rounder and a sandwich pick.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
OT: Who else is stoked for Avatar?
Roger Ebert’s 4 star review opens with
Watching “Avatar,” I felt sort of the same as when I saw “Star Wars” in 1977
I’ve bought my ticket for the Thursday midnight showing. The only theater showing it in iMAX, though, is in KC
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Well of course the plot is guessable
It’s a Sci-Fi movie. How do you discount that quote from Ebert (who is just phenomenal, by the way.
His Zero-star quotes
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I guess I'll copy/paste a couple
On Freddy Got Fingered:
This movie doesn’t scrape the bottom of the barrel. This movie isn’t the bottom of the barrel. This movie isn’t below the bottom of the barrel. This movie doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with barrels.
On The Brown Bunny:
I had a colonoscopy once, and they let me watch it on TV. It was more entertaining than The Brown Bunny.
After director Vincent Gallo responded to the above criticism by mocking Ebert’s obesity, Ebert responded: “It is true that I am fat, but one day I will be thin, and he will still be the director of The Brown Bunny.”
On Little Indian, Big City
Little Indian, Big City is one of the worst movies ever made. I detested every moronic minute of it…if you, under any circumstances, see Little Indian, Big City, I will never let you read one of my reviews again.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
You gotta like the way he paraphrased Churchill.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
I've been stoked since
reading about the production of the movie in both The New Yorker and Wired magazine last month. I’m going to try and go see a matinee on Sunday at the only place in town showing it in it’s full 3-D format.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I'm going with my standard policy
if I see ads for the movie more than 2 months before it comes out. I don’t go. If the movie was good it’d speak for itself.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I haven't really seen anything to get me interested
but a lot of other people seem excited, so I might go see it or at least check it out.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
With you.
I’m not a cartoon movie watcher either. If it’s not a Smurfs movie, I’m not watching.
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Dec 14, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
with long necks!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
A blue giraffe?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
shot at mr spants right out of the blue
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
you seem more like a knife or a poison kind of girl
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
rip mr spants, we hardly knew thee
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
i don't want any flowers, no
at least not from you. no offense cody
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
thanks, i'll be here all week
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
couldn't care less, and in fact i hope it bombs
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
you shouldn't hope it bombs
If it bombs studios will be afraid to invest in movies. So you will see a lot of the same crap like bad sequels.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
no i won't see them because i literally won't go watch them
but i get your point & it’s a valid one. but i still think it’s a bad movie & way over hyped, too expensive to make & will just suck in general.
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
when have studios ever been afraid to invest in movies?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Most of the movies I see
are made for $30M or less. I could give a shit if some stupid studio wants to throw Micheal Bay a bunch of money to make a sequel to a movie about talking robots from another planet, while putting Megan Fox’s butt all over the screen in various glorified positions because her ass is the only thing that’s interesting about her. I’m pretty much averse to any kind of big budget popcorn flick, because they never cast the right people or let the director’s have creative control over the whole process — the studio always wants to meddle, which is how they ruined the Spiderman franchise by subjecting us to multiple villains so they can stack the cast with hot actors, and how Tobey Maguire ended up being Peter Parker in the first place. The last big budget movie I really liked was The Dark Knight a couple of summers ago, and Chris Nolan got to do that movie exactly the way he wanted to do it. His cast, his story, his equipment, HIS WAY.
I’m going to see Avatar because Cameron is a great storyteller and his anal retentive ADD when it comes to his movies almost always turns out a great product, even if it is sometimes predictable. Aliens and the first two Terminator movies were impressive. Even Titanic was pretty impressive, just for the sheer amount of detail spent recreating the massive boat simply from diving the wreckage 4-5 times in submersibles.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
It won't bomb
Transformers 2 was a success and it was an abomination. This is, by all accounts, as much of a spectacle, without so much suck, with the same amount of endless advertising to build hype.
screw that guy, he let dark angel get killed
i’ll never forgive him for that
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
James Cameron made Titanic.
And that also got good reviews. I am still skeptical.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I know, I'm just saying he's not infallible or anything
He has made some truly awesome stuff. Hell, I still really really like True Lies. I wouldn’t put it past him to change my mind, I’m just saying I can’t be the only one who looks at Avatar and thinks “this doesn’t look very good,” can I?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
didn't you read above & see spants & i also aren't down with it?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
What's interesting to me about Titanic
is that, when I first saw Leo DeCaps, it was in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape, and he was so good, I thought he was actually mentally handicapped. Then I saw Titanic, followed by The Man in the Iron Mask, and “realized” I was dead wrong, this guy can’t act his way out of a paper sack. So that was that….until I saw Gangs of New York, followed by Catch Me If You Can, followed by The Aviator (sort of), followed by The Departed, and I had to revise my opinion again. He was pretty good in Blood Diamond, too, and I’ve heard good things about Revolutionary Road, even if it does have his partner in the crime known as Titanic as his love interest. According to IMDb, he now has 2 films in post-production, 2 in pre-production, and 2 that have been announced, along with 26 (26?!?!!?) projects in development. Sheesh! Can you say over-exposed?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
I thought he was awful in Gangs of New York
and very nearly ruined an otherwise interesting film. Although I suppose it’s difficult to look good when a lot of your scenes are alongside an actor of DDL’s calibre.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
I am similarly conflicted about Leonardo DiCaprio
I think he has a lot of acting ability, I just think he doesn’t always turn in stellar performances. He was amazing in Gilbert Grape. He has great in some movies and ho-hum in others. I really enjoyed Catch Me If You Can. He and Hanks were good and Christopher Walken was great in a supporting role while not being totally bizarre (I love it when he is bizarre, but it was also cool to see him be so surprisingly normal, relatively, in that movie).
Gangs of New York was a movie that I think was a great experiment. Some things about that movie I really love. Daniel Day Lewis, the entire concept, the idea of having these mini-epic battles between warring factions, the exaggerated style, etc. It really fell apart by the end in my opinion, but there is a lot to enjoy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yes, I agree the ending was weak
I think it’s sometimes an interesting exercise to do period work in what (I assume, unless it was just really poorly executed) is not a believable period “style”. Often has a cool “other-worldly” feel to it that historical purists probably hate but which I quite like, visually at least, in movies. I think GONY did that really nicely. Other than that, I felt DDL was about the only good thing in it, but somehow it added up to a largely watchable and interesting mainstream flick.
I just think DiCrapio (did you see what I did there???) is relatively limited. He’s also seemingly deliberately gone for roles in the last 5-10 years or so to get away from his babyface/teeny reputation, which is a shame, in a way, because for me his best performances were in roles like Gilbert Grape, the Baz Luhrman Romeo & Juliet film, and I thought he was fantastic in the Quick & The Dead as well (which is a real guilty pleasure of mine). I think he was just mis-cast in a lot of the movies in which he’s sucked. They’d have been better going for a no-name young actor for GONY (I also think Diaz was a pretty uninspired piece of casting, although I guess she was kinda adequate).
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
I think Cameron Diaz is a little better than people give her credit for.
I’m not asking for her to win Oscars or anything.
I think you are probably mostly correct about DiCaprio. And the Quick and The Dead is a great guilty pleasure movie.
Daniel Day Lewis almost makes you root for him in that movie. He’s so charismatic as The Butcher. Native Born! The flesh of a hog is the closest thing in nature to the flesh of a man! I just loved that character so much.
The more I think about it the more I wonder if the story would be better suited for an anime or something. I mean, you broke down exactly what I meant with the weird, stylized version of the period it’s based on. The top hats were way more epic than I assume most top hats were. Hell, Liam Neeson was beating the crap out of people with a sword and a giant metal Celtic cross. I think it would have made a good adult cartoon.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The problem is
that in most of the movies in which he has sucked, he has a producer’s credit as well, so he essentially cast himself — the only one that isn’t that way is GONY, and nobody is going to look good playing next to Daniel Day-Lewis, as you’ve pointed out. My Left Foot puts Leo’s turn in Gilbert Grape to SHAME.
The Quick and the Dead. Great movie. Gene Hackman and Russell Crowe are awesome in that movie and it’s perfectly cast — nobody could play The Lady like Sharon Stone. Maybe Linda Hamilton, but that would be about it, and she’s not as attractive.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I didn't realize the producer part.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Didn't you hear? James Cameron to Boston
I think this means the Cards are definitely still in the market for Peter Jackson.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
But which one?
It better not be Frodo or Sam. I’m serious. Now I’m all worried…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Sam has grit
Have you seen Rudy? Toy Soliders?
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't think that whatever it is he and Frodo have going on would fit into our clubhouse
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
huh
have you forgotten about the Manstew already?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Yeah
They’ve advertised the hell out of it and it has special effects. That’s all it takes.
Not afraid to nitpick
What a horrible movie both of those movies were.
I just want to drive up to my local Malco and start punching people standing in line to see Twilight.
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Dec 15, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
I am actually very surprised it is getting good reviews.
Based on the ads, it looks to me like a very predictable and crappy story. It just looks like like a silly mash-up of Pocahontas and Ferngully set against a bland allegory of Vietnam (or Iraq if you prefer). The more I see and the more I learn about this movie the less excited I get for it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
a name getting no play on VEB
what about gabe gross?
the artist formerly known as devil_fingers has a neat write up on him at fangraphs. i would think a gross/craig platoon in left would be a 2+ war platoon.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I'd still rather have
Ryan Church or Kelly Johnson or Eric Hinske if we’re looking at platoon partners for Craig.
I also think that Jack Cust merits at least a close look. He’s similar to Chris Duncan when Chris Duncan was good, only he takes even MORE walks. Yes, his defense isn’t very good, but I think you can limit his damage there by removing him in the late innings as well as platooning him with Craig.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
church and gross seem nigh-indistinguishable; both have league-average offensive projections and ++ defensive
profiles in the corners. johnson is probably less of a glove in the corner OF spot (hard to gauge, since he hasn’t been there) but has more of a .340, .350 wOBA projection, and hinske is a league average-ish bat but probably just a + defender, not ++.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
They seem that way
but I think that Church has a much better track record than Gross does at the major league level, although his skills may have diminished to the point where they are pretty indistinguishable — I will give you that.
Hinske would be my favorite out of that group, especially if he can still play 3B occasionally and not be horrible at it.
As far as defense goes, if you’re platooning someone who’s worth about a win with the glove over 150 games, he’s only going to be worth about half a win or so over th 125 games that he would probably play. I’m not sure, at that point, that it’s really worth taking a premium on defense. If we’re doing that, we might as well just call up John Jay, who can play + defense in CF and ++ defense in the corners even though he probably won’t be a league average hitter, then spend that extra coin shoring up the #5 starter and finding an infield utility man who can play 3B.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
We could always use more Auburn Tigers on the roster :P
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
War Eagle?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
War Eagle!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
do Eagles & Cardinals get along?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Of course!

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
i wonder if now that he's a daddy if he'll stop wearing those shades?
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Nah, he'll just buy a mini pair for his lil'un
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
sign me up
for a gross/craig platoon, if we don’t go on holliday
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
TLR giving suggestions on how to improve the game...
very interesting, Bud
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
huh!
the twitters are gone.
→ “La Russa has been selected by commish Bud Selig to serve on a panel to discuss ways to improve the game”
dunno, I don’t have time to dig them out again. maybe they changed their minds…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'm at work,
and thing’s get blocked. This is all I could see.
TLR giving suggestions on how to improve the game…
very interesting, Bud
* is an Asshat
"Well of Course He's a Rat!"
“You have rats in Spain, or did Franco have them all shot?”
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
rec'd for awesome photo.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Now...
this would eliminate the Red Sox from the Holliday sweepstakes, presumably.
MB for LF in 2010!
urg. on one hand, if it makes it more likely to land holliday for something reasonable, i guess it's a good thing.
i don’t know i ever really thought the cards would sign cameron. makes more sense for the sox. ellsbury is not a CF.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
I just speculated on that very thing up above
I wonder what they’re going to do with Jeremy Hermida then? Ellsbury would move to LF if they sign Cameron, and Hermida would be the odd man out in the outfield, unless they plan on using him as a 1B, while moving Youkilis to 3B.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
seems like he'll be a 4th OF spelling drew and ellsbury. ellsbury has marginally better projections and is probably a better corner defender.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
Everyone says this
and I don’t buy it. Piazza was a horrible catcher, and he is not Mike Piazza, he is not even CLOSE to being that bad. He’s a better catcher than Russell Martin and you don’t see the Dodgers looking to move Martin out of there, do you?
Cleveland got him out from behind the plate every few days and stuck him at first because they didn’t have a first baseman that was really worth a crap, had a good backup catcher, and got tired of having their best hitter getting beat up late in the season all the time. If Boston was smart they’d just DH him or put him at 1B every fifth day and let Varitek be the backup — their club will be much better offensively with Varitek’s putrid bat out of the lineup.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Always a good sign when your captain
rides the pine…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
If he's a true "captain"
he’ll do what is best for the team. Which is sit his ass on the bench and be a glorified coach.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Hermida was never...
good enough to crack the Boston outfield as a starter. He’d be a good platoon guy.
I think the Red Sox should sign Cameron, find a partner for Hermida, and then trade Ellsbury, Buchholz + more for Adrian Gonzalez. Then slide the Greek over to third.
MB for LF in 2010!
Tears?
Has any bigger ticket Boras clients signed this off-season yet? If indeed none of the big fish (Yanks, BoSox, Dodgers, and LA) are interested in Holliday, then it’s gotta us, right?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
the Yanks & Angels are still in play, i don't care what artie says
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
allegedly, he may be going to the braves for derek lowe.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
he's a DH only now
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
you have to be kidding...
what an awesome contract for the phillies.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
horrible that halladay would sign only three years
his market won’t be any stronger as a 33YO ace.
I am the Batman
At least he gets paid and has a chance to compete
Both are improvements over his current situation, even if they’re not best case scenarios.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
it's still a dumb move financially
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
it looks like it has options for 2 extra years
5 yrs and a possible 100 M is dumb?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
when he can get 180+ from the sawx, dodgers or Yanks? yes it's dumb
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
maybe he just isn't a greedy bastard
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
There are benefits for Halladay...
he eliminates the injury risk in 2010, he escapes Toronto, he goes to a contender.
MB for LF in 2010!
It'd take way too long to hammer out
But if I were him I’d be game for 3/60………but then it’s a conditional 2 year/46M mutual option after that (Sabathia money). If less than 175 IP in year 3 or less than 450 overall it becomes a team option. If he hits 600 innings in the three years it becomes a straight player option. 450-600 + >175 in year 3, it’s a mutual option.
Phils get protection for Halladay injuring himself, Halladay gets 60M guaranteed/the choice to earn top dollars or be a FA if he’s healthy.
Not afraid to nitpick
I believe it has vesting options for both a 4th and 5th year at the same AAV though
Still a good contract, but it kinda depends on when those options vest.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
woo woo
sox talking with cameron
that would def put them out of the holliday sweepstakes
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Boras is Damon's agent.
I guess, technically, Damon could fire Boras and sign, but otherwise I can’t imagine anything happening with him until H is off the table. Boras needs the perceived threat of the yankees bidding on H to drive up the price.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
I know we all think Boras is sleazy, but that would be incredibly low.
And I think it would hurt his chances of signing new clients. What agent would prevent a client from signing to get someone else a higher contract?
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
well, there's definitely a conflict of interest
the richest team in baseball needs a LF, and Boras represents two LF’s…
(3 if you count ankiel.)
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
That may be true, but I have to believe when other players see this presumed
preventing of progress in Damon’s contract talks, that they would be less likely to sign with Boras. Unless you are the absolute best player at your position Boras would have set a precedent where you are nothing more than bait. Would you sign with him if these allegations were true?
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
that is the question
and the second question is, how would you ever really know?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
Happ and Blanton
took physicals and could be involved in the Phils’ deal. HFS, 3/5 of your rotation for one guy??
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
thats according to
reports linked on mlbtraderumors
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
holy shit
i hope that’s the trade. love to see the phillies should themselves in the foot
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
shoot*
also
Drabek and “other top [Phillies] prospects” will be involved in the deal, according to Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com (via Twitter). According to Salisbury, Brown will remain with the club.
!!!
they traded half their team!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
this tidbit too
Chase Utley is rumored to be part of the deal
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
nah, i just playin!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Come on pj
Sell it!
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
it could still happen
they don’t appear to be done yet
the official body count sits at happ, lee, drabek and blanton
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I love Halladay
but that is just plain HFS BSI…!!!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
There's no way they trade Lee AND Drabek
There would be no need to involve the Ms if Drabek is involved.
Not afraid to nitpick
I wonder if they'd try to slide Doug Drabek in the deal just to trick them.
Sorry suckers, we didn’t say which Drabek!
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Dec 15, 2009 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see how they are shooting themselves in the foot at all
by acquiring Roy Halladay and then extending him for 3-5 seasons beyond his current contract. Dude has never pitched outside of the AL East — how much do you think he’s going to dominate the NL East. If I’m the Mets and Braves I’m scared shitless that this deal is going down without them giving up a single major league player or a prospect that would probably even play for them in the next couple of years.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
cliff lee?
ja happ?
joe blanton?
all mlb players
and drabek is right on the doorstep
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
I refuse to believe that those are the players involved.
Why would they need the M’s if they were moving Blanton AND Drabek AND their best prospect in AAA? It’s bullshit. It’ll end up being Happ, Drabek, and the catcher, in which case they keep Lee for at least next year, or it’s Lee to the M’s and their AAA OF prospect and the Catcher to the Jays, with the M’s kicking in a couple of players to the A’s as well.
I see no fucking way they are giving Lee, Happ, Blanton, and Drabek in the same deal — they could have gotten Halladay for less than that at the deadline, and his price has dropped even further now with Boston signing Lackey.
At this point, they could send Drabek, Happ, and the catcher to the Jays for Halladay straight up.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
i agree
just going by what is being reported.
lee for halladay straight up is probably not a deal i would make
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I think they’re leveraging Lee into keeping their farm system from being completely drained while going after Halladay, knowing full well they can’t sign both of them long term.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
so wait, Lee, Happ, Blanton + their best prospects for Roy?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
gotta keep beating that dead horse
i’ve got nothing else to bring to the table
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Anytime anything Super Troopers is posted
I rec… good job sir.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Cameron to the BoSox is official...
we gotta be able to land Bay or Holliday, if we want to go that route.
MB for LF in 2010!
This can't hurt
I bet Boras is just messing up his own Damon – Yankee negotiations. If you are Damon what point do you question your agent
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
I wonder if agents that scoop Boras have their own little Icky Shuffle they do in their hotel rooms. Cameron slides in under the radar, to a perennial contender. “Way to go team, cigars all around!”
I’m kind of torn, since I’m skeptical of Holliday anyway, and would rather see a pick than the gamble on what will be a monster contract for him.
2/16 for Cameron...
there’s seems to be an enormous gulf developing between “superstars” and guys who are a notch below.
MB for LF in 2010!
i would've loved that price tag
my hang up was the presumed $10MM/yr it would’ve taken
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
yeah
I’d rather have that + another pitcher + a LH bat instead of holliday.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
it is twitter
I have already sunk this far why not a little more
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
me too, I am going to do it right now
I am a masochist, but this is rediculous.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
what is your twitter account?
I’d like to follow other VEBers than just AZ, Spants and DanUp (you guys are boring).
ouch
mid-tween=12ish I believe, last I checked I wasn’t 12. Maybe it’s the fact I was tired using a system that no-one really read.
I am the Batman
we agreed you were 15
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
mines better
ah fuck it. never mind, i don’t want to anger the robot again
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
mazel tov
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Yeah
My dial-up is compuserve, and I use Mosaic 1.0 for my web browser.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just old enough to know what those are
Well, I remember Compuserve and Prodigy. I don’t know what Mosaic is though. Apparently it’s kind of an ancestor (in a way) of Netscape and Mozilla, which makes sense. Is that accurate?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
what the? I thought I had tracked down all VEBers
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
mine is the same as here
but be prepared to be disappointed. I still have not mastered the tweetering, so I basically just have it to get news…and laugh
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Also,
@boxcar_fritz 140 characters exactly. Suck it twitter!
It’s called a twoosh.
Now with extra feisty!
is that a twittered BOOSH! ?
I love a good BOOSH!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i pretty much talk to 3 different people on Twitter
Erik Manning, Sky Kalkman, and Matt Leach
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
fuck, I unfollow Strauss
and 10 minutes later Twiiter puts him as one of those annoying pop-in tweets on my home page.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Yeah he's all of my feed now
and I never even followed the ass clown. Pull you head out of your ass, twitter!
I think he ended up traded to the Mariners somehow.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
He and Mrs Krabapple were in the closet
and they were making babies and one of the babies looked at me.
by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Classic
That’s an automatic rec. You people know what I come here for don’t you.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
My cat's breath smells like cat food.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
they taste like...burning!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Me failed English? That's unpossible!
Oh my
by Mulliganstew on Dec 14, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Favorite
http://www.hulu.com/watch/22138/the-simpsons-lie-detector
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
the Mariners also got the Phillie Phanatic in the deal
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Seattle!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
oh fuck, wrong meme
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
this probably just means that joe straus took a crap.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
he just said it was positive movement
A poop going back in would qualify as bad movement to me.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
I swear to god, if we sign him (or anyone not named Jose Alberto) for eight fucking years,
I will lose it.
that
8/110 is looking more realistic if the yankees aren’t in this. he’ll have to take what he can get
really, if it’s 8 years and <15MM per, sign me up
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
soriano is making 18MM
13.75 is sweeter. and soriano is no holliday
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
well, to hear boras tell it
teixeira is the basis for 8 year deals. holliday will not get soriano money, though. not a chance. not with the sox, angels and mets out of it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I know he won;t get Fonzi money
but he’ll still be (almost certainly) massively overpaid in years 6-8.
you mean
he’ll be overpaid the last couple years of his contract? that might be likely. i’m just not sure it’s going to take some absurd contract to land him anymore
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i've said all along i wouldn't go any higher than that
if i’m proved right, i’ll be impossible to live with
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
luckily that is not a problem!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Luckily that is already the case
so we’re already used to it.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
proving you right
would entail you saying “holliday will sign for $15 per”
/pedantic
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
yes, just go with it to humor me
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
just f'ing humor me gotdamnit!
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
I'm firmly in the camp that you overpay for less years
rather than dragging out the inevitably decline under your watch.
f'in strauss

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Fuck You
@JoeStrauss I would never tell you to stay up to midnite again. But it wouldn’t be a bad idea. #stlcards
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
if I stay up til midnight
and the only thing that happens is Matt Holliday taking a crap on Strauss’ lawn, I am not gonna be a happy camper
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah
that’d be awesome
and then we could get a whiny snarkicle from straussie about it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
i would stay up till midnight to hear about someone crapping on strauss's lawn.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
well if I stay up til midnight
and Holliday is not signed, or doesn’t crap on Strauss’ lawn, I say we all have a roadtrip to Strauss’ house
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
i'll drive, you bring the bourbon
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Leave the gun.
Take the cannoli.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
Mikey, when a you gonna tell that girl you love her?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'll be happy to help.
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Well that's just tough twitters then.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I want to Twitter all over your Facebook
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i hope cgirly doesn't read this
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
she hasn't been around lately
maybe she’s mourning corbin’s baby?
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
i probably scared another one off
f’in gdm indeed
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
Wasn't she around the finals part of the year?
Maybe she’s attempting to pass classes? Sellout.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I'm in the Smoky Mountains with my mom.
She gets mad when I am on here all the time when I’m at home so I probably won’t be around as much for a couple of weeks.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Dec 15, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
6ly, VEB comes before anything & everyone
unless they are a smokin hottie
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
no work tomorrow
so i’ll do it
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
right after
Cardinals jumped the gun. To be announced tomorrow.
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
i'm going to smack a biatch if someone is f'ing around
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
because this isn't funny, but he likes to f with us
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
good question
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
all i can gather
is negative connotations
went ahead and committed money before cameron signed when they could have gotten him for less? or told him to take a hike before cameron signed which brings the price down?
well, if the first were true, i doubt it’s strauss breaking the news of the holliday signing and even if so, why wait til midnight to announce the biggest signing of the offseason. the second doesn’t make any sense based on the “positive movement” statement
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not exactly Twitter savvy
but after poking around a bit it looked to me like it was in reference to this
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
....unless there's pictures....
…..or Tiger Woods was somehow involved.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
Speaking of Twitter and People hated by Cardinals fans:
keithlaw
Cardinals. RT @jdondlinger @keithlaw If the offseason ended today, who would you pick to win the NL Central?
Stab his eyes out -- some guy in central Missouri already went after his address!!!
Wait. . . that sounds like a positive comment.
To Jeff Passan’s house!!! Grab the torches!!!
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
ha
it was ashland
i used to live <10 min from there
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
he's also a corbin raffle lover
@keithlaw Rasmus by a lot. @RF85 @keithlaw long term, who do you have: maybin or colby rasmus? and is it a close call? thx for any input.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
Not to engage in outlandish trade scenarios...
but if the Cards sold high on Carpenter and brought back, say, Joe Saunders, Brandon Wood, Mike Trout, plus another prospect, would that be so terrible?
The Angels have to be absolutely desperate at this point and It’s not really optimal for us to have the whole season rest on Carp’s right arm.
MB for LF in 2010!
i would be okay
with moving carp for the right price
don’t know anything about any of those guys, though
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
a brief look at their stats
says that is not the right price
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
I listened to Sports Radio today in LA
(Something I normally avoid, but so much happened today I thought i might as well)
The talking heads here are incredibly down on Brandon Wood. Since the local fans that see him in AAA and MLB have probably seen him more than we, it makes me wonder: Why the obsession? I assume that Angels ownership likes him more than the average fan, but people seem pretty pissed that Figgins is gone and don’t think Wood will be able to come close to filling his shoes.
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
I would dump Carp in a heartbeat
right now. Hated the extension at the time and am still very wary of it.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
It's getting to be moveable...
2 years and, what, $30 million. I could see the Angels being interested given their loses and the Mariners’ gains.
MB for LF in 2010!
2/29.5M + 15 option/1M buyout
I think that’s about fair. He’s a healthy 5 Win pitcher healthy……..if people are clamoring for Rich Harden at 8M or whatever, Carpenter at 15 is a steal.
Not afraid to nitpick
I hope for the sake of your face
that Carpenter doesn’t read this.
Carp is a franchise type. I would cry if he left. And everyone would be tipping pitches EVERYWHERE.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
yeah
and i would cry if he spent 1.9 years on the dl again. i want him to be our pitching coach and i want ‘05/’09 carp every year, but he and his arm are a liability
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
it's not his arm that's the problem, it's the nerves in his back & shoulder
if that stops firing again, we’re f’ed
Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.
depends on when we're talking
Carp next year I wouldn’t move for anything
Carp on the year Adam Wainwright signs with us for life… uh yeah.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'd move Carp in a heartbeat for Saunders + Wood
The payroll flexibility alone would be great – we could probably add ben sheets, a closer AND still look at one of the bigger ticket OF options, as well as having Saunders, who’s probably a decent #3/4 starter on a contending team, and Wood, who’d be a good fit at 3B.
Still, I can’t see them giving up on Wood, given they let Figgins go to (presumably) open up 3B for him (unless, of course, they’re in on Beltre, which I doubt).
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Mike Cameron at 15.5 over 2 years?
I wish these free agents would stop helping the big payroll teams. They don’t need more of a financial advantage.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
yeah
what a bargain
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions

by 



























