Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Along The Olentangy for Ohio State Fans!

B Prospects, Plan Bs, DWIs

John Sickels released his Cardinals Top Twenty over the weekend, giving us an SBN-approved list of prospects to salivate over. I can't deprive him the pageview, but suffice it to say that the Cardinals' remaining minor league strength, a large pool of Sickels's ubiquitous "Grade C" guys, is not the most exciting thing to talk about. Go over there and read it, because then I'm going to niggle with it in bullet point format. 

Star-divide

  • It's awful to see Pete Kozma rated 16th, but I can't exactly argue with the thought process that landed him there. I can almost see the thought process behind promoting Kozma, and position players in general, aggressively through high-A. Palm Beach is a hitter's nightmare, and the Springfield Cardinals play in the Texas League; it's a much closer step than it typically is, and probably should be, and had it worked out it would have been a nice confidence boost for a guy who's been not-Rick-Porcello from day one. 

    That said, I don't get why they kept him there while he endured an unbelievably terrible season. Kozma, who Sickels reminds us was drafted as a "makeup" guy, didn't hit; he wasn't sure-handed afield. At least when Tyler Greene, who managed to climb past Kozma in what is presumably his last year as a prospect, flailed around the minor leagues he stole bases like crazy (113 SB, 15 CS) and hit a few home runs to show that the tools were intact. Kozma wasn't a tools guy; he was drafted on the presumption that he would adjust well to adversity, to whatever role was required of him. I expect a bounceback season of some kind, but the question with Kozma has always been how high that last bounce will be. 

  • The exciting news is that Sickels is higher on Robert Stock than any other source to this point—number four on the Cardinals' list, ahead of Daryl Jones, for the usual reasons: if his bat holds up, he's the total catching prospect package, and if it doesn't he's a hard-throwing pitcher who can kind of hit. Two, two, two prospects in one! I was as excited to watch Stock pick apart the Appalachian League as anybody else, but since Niko Vasquez I've learned to resist the temptation to throw out small samples of at-bats when the season-wide total is so small. Stock may have struggled in just 24 at-bats in the Midwest League, but when that's the difference between a .936 OPS and an .857 OPS for a guy whose bat has as much uncertainty as it does upside it advises some caution in using his short-season debut to forecast future greatness.
  • While we're on the subject of catchers, Steven Hill was perhaps the biggest surprise of the whole top twenty for me-his .282/.333/.470 line in the Texas League as a 24 year-old earned him the spot just ahead of Pete Kozma on the list. What I'm about to say makes me very uncomfortable. I was an early Bryan Anderson skeptic, and I don't think it's beating my own drum to say that I had him out of my mental top five before other people did. But Steven Hill is a year and a half older than Anderson, and has his own fatal bat flaws; Anderson may have less power than his pitcher, on nights when he's catching Adam Wainwright, but Hill's high-strikeouts/high-average/low-walks routine is a recipe for Major League disaster, and he's apparently even worse behind the plate. I hate to say it, but we might have officially begun to underrate Bryan Anderson. 
  • He's still got no chance of ever starting here, ever, and I'll ban anybody what says different, but I like the decision to list Mark Hamilton at the back of the list. He did it in two hitters' leagues, but an OBP-heavy .927 OPS in the high minors is no mean feat. (And he, too, is six months younger than Steve Hill.) If the Cardinals have any interest in keeping the guy it might have made sense to give him more than a single start in left field, where he could platoon with Allen Craig on a team with less of its future wrapped up in competing right this instant.
It's true, though: the Cardinals have a wealth of guys who are, in the vaguest way possible, interesting. Relievers who might be useful if they learn that strikes and balls aren't called at random? There's Francisco Samuel, owner of a legitimate high-90s fastball and a walk rate that just missed touching one batter an inning, and Tyler Norrick, whose strikeouts-to-hits ratio against lefties—which as fake stats go is both inanely compartmentalized and entertaining—was 2.5:1, and that's just the wild-fireballers nearest the major leagues. Potential fourth outfielders? Jon Jay, Tyler Henley. Offensive-minded catchers with terrible defensive reputations? Hey, we've got three a-those.

You get the idea—these are misfit toys, but eventually the Cardinals will find off-label uses for some of them. 

#

This is extremely interesting timing, given the imminent and uncertain timing of Boras/Holliday's decision on the Cardinals' official offer—over at Play a Hard 9 there's an interesting graph of possible Plan Bs should things not go the Cardinals way. What I doubt in the graph is not that the thought of Miguel Tejada playing third gives Future Redbirds godfather Erik nightmares but that the Cardinals will stick mainly to Allen Craig in left should Holliday leave for greener pastures.

Craig might have a good year, but the symbolic value among the DeWallet set won't be lost on ownership or management; nobody at third base, short of Scott Rolen with a bionic shoulder, is going to make fans forget that the Protect Albert spot is being filled by a rookie making $400,000 a year. And it's simply too easy to use Craig without starting him; as the small end of a platoon he could get his feet wet without having to be the Guy Who Isn't Matt Holliday. U.S.S. Mariner has it "third-hand" that Seattle and Baltimore are talking about Luke Scott, erstwhile Astros slugger. A guy like that would make a lot of sense, should the Cardinals find themselves with a Lego-sized vacuum. 

That said, my dark horse candidate for surprise left fielder come this April is, more and more, Johnny Damon. He wasn't offered arbitration, so he won't cost the Cardinals one of what looks like a bounty of draft picks, he fills a hole, Guy In Front of Pujols, that's been assumed vacant nearly as long as Guy Behind Pujols, and he's a guy with a broad base of pretty good skills. I don't know how fond I am of blowing the easiest spot on the team to upgrade on a 36 year-old left fielder coming off a huge season fraught with reasonable park effects concerns, but I can see it happening. 

#

And finally, speaking of Miguel Tejada playing third base, there is Joe Strauss's pre-tweeted breaking news, that David Freese was arrested on DWI charges. We don't know the whole story yet, and I'd hate to pass complete moral judgment on it without that, but suffice it to say that this is a really stupid thing to do.

In the end they're athletes, and should be in the news, for the most part, based on what they do on the baseball field; at the same time, it's not unfair to hold a baseball player—or a golfer, I guess, to turn subtext into text—to the same standards for generalized disappointment you do any other human being you happen to come across. This is bad; I hope either that there is some mitigating circumstance, though I can't imagine one, or that he is prepared to deal with it in the future, before the consequences get worse, far worse, than a really disappointing Twitter-tease. I don't think, and have never thought, that I as a sportswriter, or we as baseball fans, can say much more about something like this than that.

That said, we don't yet know how this is going to play out on the baseball field; as a ballplayer, Freese, cheap, useful, is an important cog in any free agent machinations. 

0 recs  |  Comment 977 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

pretty sad list

The only solace the list offers is the thought that they have to know they gave up what little they had for Holliday and Derosa, which should make them stretch to keep Holliday. There isn’t any position player help on the way. Now Freese has had two straight offseasons with driving incidents. Add that to his already suspect status and it looks increasingly like they will have to dip into a large (but not so good) 3B free agent pool. Another name not on the list is Gregerson, who left in exchange for the 2009 contribution of Khalil Greene, our opening day cleanup hitter.

by vinniefromjersey on Dec 14, 2009 6:48 AM EST reply actions  

I'm confused.

How does a DWI have any bearing on what Freese is likely to do in the coming season? Unless he’s staring down jail time (which I doubt, given this is his first offense as far as I know), I can’t imagine the two are particularly related. I’m curious as to what you mean.

Here comes the funcooker!

by the red baron on Dec 14, 2009 7:52 AM EST up reply actions  

The club's reaction is the issue.

This guy disappointed a lot of people in the organization last year by trying to hide his injury. LaRussa particularly held it against him. The club has a black eye regarding alcohol-related incidents with Spiezio, LaRussa, and Hancock. They could easily choose to make an example of Freese here, and if they don’t punish him you are going to have a loud minority screaming from hills about the privilege of professional athletes.

I’m not going to pass judgement on the guy at all. I don’t know the circumstances, and I’m not convinced that 0.08 is a level that I haven’t exceeded many times in the past. Who am I to judge? I would like to see these guys start thinking about their public image and how it might affect their profession. This is a marginal guy that is about to be given a second real chance to make the ballclub and stick. Last year he screwed it up, and now this jeopardizes it this year. This obviously doesn’t affect how he plays baseball, but it may affect his opportunity to do so. In addition, it may force the Cardinals to turn to plan B sooner because of the PR ramifications of relying on Freese at 3B now.

This is a bad thing for the ballclub regardless of any moral judgement that one might possess about this incident. It’s a shame that Freese has put himself, and them, in this position.

by etp_stl on Dec 14, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not attributing this to you, etp_stil,

but I simply don’t understand this mindset:

They could easily choose to make an example of Freese here, and if they don’t punish him you are going to have a loud minority screaming from hills about the privilege of professional athletes.

How many people work for an employer that punishes them for an OWI? People who drive for a living probably do. I would wager, however, that most people do not. So, then, how is it that pro ballplayers are treated any differently in this regard? Also, how hypocritical would it be for the organization to punish Freese but to have done nothing to TLR?

Lastly, I don’t think that the PR ramifications of allowing Freese to start at third base are remotely as large as hiring Mark McGwire as hitting coach.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

beat me to it on Big Mac

I was just hitting enter on a similar comment about where the DWI ranks for the Cards PR issues heading into 2010.

by ubeddie on Dec 14, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you guys, to some extent.

I think the McGwire issue has been proven to not really have a big effect on fan rancor, though. Steroids make for some discussions, but that issue doesn’t have the kind of negative publicity that drinking and driving has had for several decades now. The only real effect that McGwire’s hiring has had has been on the amount of noise the media is making for being denied the answers they think they know and to which they think they are entitled.

I’m not convinced that they definitely will choose to make an example of Freese, but I think it is more than possible for a player that simply doesn’t have a public fanbase to support him. It is also amplified by the fact that he lied to the organization last year about his injury. The timing was different on the LaRussa issue in that it was the first of these occurances. The following incidents made it look like an organizational problem, and I’m not sure the Cardinals want to further that image by retaining the guy. I’m also not sure about the perception of the guy being rewarded with a starting job after this incident. I think there will be more fans that boycott going to the games based on that than will boycott because McGwire was hired. Just my opinion, and I don’t think it will be a large number for either reason. It is more an issue of driving away sponsors based on the responses from MADD and other such lobby groups.

Corporate employees are certainly held to a similar standard regarding drug and alcohol use, not just licensed professionals. It is clearly layed out in employment papers that there is zero tolerance for those issues. Most employees are more likely to be fired for being impaired at work, and that extends to manufacturing, as well. There again, that is typically a zero tolerance policy.

Again, I’m not making a statement about what I want or think they should do. I was simply trying to provide my opinion on how this might affect what Freese is able to do on the field this year. I don’t know that they’ll overreact to this incident, and truthfully, I hope they don’t.

by etp_stl on Dec 14, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

why

is everyone bringing up his injury last year? he tried to play through an injury. isn’t that grit? isn’t that chris duncan and rick ankiel personified and what made them such amazing teammates?

also, freese is a moron, but this should have no bearing on his role as the cardinals starting 3b. he does not drive a vehicle for the st louis cardinals

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Because I'm not Tony LaRussa.

No, I don’t think Chris Duncan lying about his ability to play made him a great teammate. I don’t believe that LaRussa running Duncan and Ankiel out there when they clearly weren’t capable of playing at even a serviceable level was good for the team. Also, there is a difference between playing through injury and trying to hide the fact that you have had an injury. Ankiel didn’t do that. Duncan and Freese both have.

Choosing to hide an injury shows a lack of professionalism, and it creates a trust issue between the player and the organization. It also might have changed the organizations offseason moves last year because they were working under the belief that Freese was a healthy and viable option for the 25 man roster. By the time they found out, the options for improving the situation were limited. The same goes for Glaus, and that is most likely why he isn’t going to suit up for the Redbirds this year, either.

As far as his role with the Cardinals being influenced by this current mistake, you have to remember this is an enterainment business. Fans influence organizational decisions based on off the field issues regularly by threatening sponsors with boycott. MADD is an extremely powerful lobby group, and lobby groups like to make examples of highly visible situations. You can’t discount that type of influence on the situation, though it has nothing to do with what Freese is capable of doing on the field.

by etp_stl on Dec 14, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree

about the injuries. but i don’t think that trying to play through an injury is necessarily a character flaw

and ankiel di try and hide injuries, just not in ‘09. it’s kind of hard to hide that he crashed into a wall. but i didn’t get the impression that he was very forthcoming with his ’08 injuries

as for madd and the like, i see and understand the rationale, but i just can’t bring myself to care that much. he did something stupid that is completely unrelated to his job. he should be punished for it (and he will) but not by his employer

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you, in principle.

I don’t believe that those types of off the field transgressions should carry over to your professional life; however, I’ve noticed that there aren’t too many people asking my opinion on that matter. It obviously has had carry over effects in multiple cases, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it does in this case, as well. I have yet to figure out how to guess which situations are actually going to cause that type of media/PR blowback.

I honestly don’t remember the situations around Ankiel’s injuries in ‘08. I know the club wasn’t forthcoming with the fans, but I don’t remember hearing that he tried to keep his injuries from the club. I do remember hearing that Duncan tried keeping his injuries in ‘08 and ’09 from the club, so that’s why I mentioned him specifically.

I also agree that playing through injuries is not a character flaw. The coaches are payed a lot of money to decide which players give the team the best chance to win. The player is responsible for being ready to play every day, regardless of bumps and bruises. I think LaRussa picks and chooses when to villify a player for playing through injury in order to exonnerate himself from the responsibility that should be his. I wouldn’t fault Freese for insisting on going out to play through the injury he experienced during the last offseason, but he is at fault for not letting the team know about it.

by etp_stl on Dec 14, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

While I agree that this is a job and not dependent on drving ability.

His behavior certainly reflects on his maturity and reliability levels. I haven’t seem or heard the accident report from his previous injury, but if I were the Cardinals I would make sure I analyzed that carefully and if there is any suspicion that alcohol may have played a role…even if not charged, I would require him to seek some help.
The reliability issue is important I would think…if he is our choice for 3b we wouldn’t want to forsake other options and then see him get injured, jailed, etc. mid-season because of another drinking and driving incident.

by ADMDrayson on Dec 14, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

requiring some outpatient rehab

would actually be a pretty reasonable action for them to take

firing him/benching him/starting in AAA is an overreaction and bad for the team

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

he’s not a kid anymore. needs to grow up.
and/or the Cards need to have a comprehensive system to get players help when they need it.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Or a cab reimbursement system.

If you’ve had a little to drink, why even risk it? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It’s idiotic, whether it’s the manager or a farm leaguer.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

a relative of mine who was a surgeon would always tell me to be careful of his hands, when we were assembling and fixing stuff around the house — they were his bread and butter.

they earn their money with their athleticism. stupid not to take care of it.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

it doesn't matter if he should be

the point is that he will be. you might not but i guarantee you the club that has had several alcohol related incidents including one fatality cares. how could they not?

what happens when they slap his wrist and then he gets into a car crash in a couple months? there would be hell to pay.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Dec 14, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm just curious...

Is “FutureMan” by any chance a reference to the Flecktone of the same name?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

its from the movie bottlerocket

great film if you haven’t seen it

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Dec 14, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't really like it

And I’ve watched it more than once

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I have seen it, actually...

I just don’t remember the FutureMan part. But I have only seen it once, several years ago. It was good! I think Bottlerocket and Rushmore are under-appreciated compared to The Royal Tenenbaums and Life Aquatic.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Rushmore isn't underappreciated by Anderson fans.

That said, I like Tenenbaums the best. I didn’t like Life Aquatic.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 15, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Ah

That’s cool. I don’t like him enough to consider myself a dedicated “Wes Anderson fan” or anything, but I do like his movies a good amount. The ones I’ve seen. Has he made any more?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

isn't he responsible for the darjeeling express? or does that just look like

a wes anderson movie?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 15, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah

I figured there was at least one movie of his that I was forgetting, and I think it’s that one.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

doesn't matter

that’s exactly what would happen. the press and public would be all over it saying the cardinals can’t control their players.

and i know that’s how it would go down cause its exactly what happened after hancock and would be exponentially worse if something similar happened again.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Dec 14, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

professional fields

typically have professional practice acts that hold them to a higher standard. As a physical therapy student, I have been warned about the risks and that the majority of licensure punishments have to do with drug and alcohol related offenses.

Also, I would think that if a teacher gets a DUI, they are probably going to have some ramifications at work.

I’m not saying that I agree that professional athletes should be held to a higher standard, or that Freese should be punished for his transgression, I’m just pointing out that there are fields where you will be punished for OWI.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

The traditional professions do. As do teachers.

However, I think the importance of a sober doctor, lawyer, or teacher is somewhat higher than for a professional baseball player.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Southside, below, presented a reason for holding baseball players

to an equal standard. They are in the public eye and could influence many people indirectly in contrast to the other professionals.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Dec 14, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't buy this.

Who actually sees Freese getting a DUI and thinks “you know what maybe driving when I’m really drunk isn’t a bad idea.”

(Insert Your Own Joke)

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

No, but

It’s easier to accept that one’s behavior is OK if “everyone is doing it.”

Things can gain cultural acceptance if they are known/shown to be common. On this blog, we have had quite a few posters say they’d refuse to accept a wife-beater on the team….but within this thread today, there are a lot of “why is this relevant?” statements, with none of the same flat-out “cut him” indignation we’ve seen over other things. Why? My guess is that it’s in part because a lot more people here have driven drunk than have beaten their wives. But count me as a one guy who wouldn’t say that drunken driving should be more societally accepted – if anything, the consequences could be far worse.

by siddfynch on Dec 14, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Not the issue right here

we’re talking about whether there can be a monkey see, monkey do issue with behavior. And whether aberrant behavior can seem more acceptable the more commonly it is seen.

I agree that what fans care about/don’t care about is also an issue here, but certainly not one I was trying to address. I’d like to see all these guys be squeaky clean, but I also think we make a big mistake when we turn them into role models for anything more than playing baseball.

by siddfynch on Dec 14, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt that anyone on here decide to drive drunk because

“everyone was doing it.” And if someone is dumb enough to put their life at risk and others because it’s culturally acceptable, then I bet they would do it with out it being acceptable. I’m not down with the drunk driving either, but if I’m the Cards GM it plays no factor in whether I let Freese play or not. Good business decisions are not influenced by morals.

(Insert Your Own Joke)

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I certainly wouldn't drive drunk even if everyone else was doing it

but I’d certainly jump off a bridge in that situation.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 14, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

"Good business decisions are not influenced by morals"

Not sure I can agree with you on that one, either, though I suppose it depends on what kind of business you are in. I guess I wouldn’t want to be in a profession where morals or integrity weren’t rewarded. Sounds like you’d be making some Faustian bargains in a hurry.

by siddfynch on Dec 14, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's rather disingenous that most of this blog

is about player values, and yet most are avoiding the fact that a criminal record, a serious addiction, injury, and worse things seriously devalue the game and business’s most important commodity — people. The support resources can be had for a relatively modest price. Why has this investment not been made already? Because they’re grown men and nobody’s the boss of them?

Death lasts forever.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

and it came out just now he's had problems with alcohol before

which is juuuuust great

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 15, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

What I'm trying to say is the Cardinals

shouldn’t “make an example” of Freese by suspending him or keep him in the miniors if that’s not the best thing for the baseball team. If your the head of advertising of Nike right now I doubt you are firing or keeping Tiger based on how great of a guy he is. Your keeping him based on whether he is going to make you money.

(Insert Your Own Joke)

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not trying to say they shouldn't help the guy make better

decisions. I just think when Spring Training comes I want him getting all the reps that the starting 3B should get.

(Insert Your Own Joke)

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 15, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Not neccessarily

At some point, businesses must factor what is “right” into their operation, or risk punishment, scorn, or loss of clientele. Because the profit value of an individual choice may never be able to be known, this means that they must make those choices somewhat blindly, using some kind of moral compass. A company that drops Tiger Woods is almost certainly not waiting to run control and experiment studies to know for sure whether he will now hurt their bottom line…they are making a gut level decision based on what t hey think is a value arena into which they can’t go, or don’t want to go.

There are definitely nuances among the concepts of morals, integrity and values here, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth regarding businesses and the latter two (you only spoke of morals).

by siddfynch on Dec 15, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Plenty of employers. . .

punish for a DWI, and virtually all of those where their employees would be in the public eye do.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Not really...

Unless the DWI came on company time or the employer has it written into their policies, no company can punish an employee for an offense committed outside of the workplace, not unless they want to face a lawsuit.

by Forsch31 on Dec 14, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

what a strange conclusion to draw from this

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Talk about your own worst enemy...

he should just get an apartment near the stadium.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 7:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Someone from the club should just purchase one of those lofts next to the ballpark and charge it to Freese.

Here comes the funcooker!

by the red baron on Dec 14, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

wait to hear his blood alcohol level

0.08 is so low it doesn’t mean he was drunk off his arse to get arrested

by d-dee on Dec 14, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

That's 2 beers in about 30 minutes or so

Or one boilermaker in the same timeframe. Not a huge amount.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm just saying

it seems like they catch a lot of people who are right over the legal limit, when they may be slightly impaired, but no more than that mother of two who’s driving her minivan while talking on a cellphone and smoking a Virgina Slim while drying her nails in the defroster — all at the same time.

I don’t think the law is archaic, I just think that there are really diminishing returns when you get down to a near “zero tolerance” level like 0.08 is. At that point, to obey the law, you simply can’t go out to dinner and have 2 beers with a pizza, and then drive home knowing that you’re safe from getting a DUI. That’s the whole problem — it’s no longer a deterrent for people, they’re just going to risk it.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Good points

Also, I hate how many times we hear that “so and so” was arrested at “n times the legal limit(!)” when the legal limit is surprisingly low.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but I think a lot of people assume that the legal limit itself = close to plastered

It’s just a lazy way to provide pseudo-context, in my opinion.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

The legal limit itself affects your handling of a vehicle.

So, if you’re at double the legal limit, you are a serious danger to everyone on the road, including yourself.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I think they have done

mythbusters episodes that prove your point here.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't doubt it

I just think that the press has a tendency to exaggerate this kind of thing. God help me if I ever tried to drive when I wasn’t able, that would be horrible. I just hate the sensationalism that goes into it.
However, I can also appreciate that it might be better to scare people out of acting stupid, so it’s a minor quibble.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it's archaic

in that the laws weren’t fully developed. But that’s just semantics.

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

But, the BAC laws have evolved.

In fact, I think 0.08 has been enacted within the last five to ten years in most states, reducting it from 0.10…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I have no problem with the limit

just with the punishment, which I don’t think has evolved at all. I think it should be harsher by every .01 above .08.

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

If you’re double the legal limit, you use up two strikes right there, and go straight to having your license suspended with a very harsh fine. I don’t understand why a person with twice the legal limit gets the same punishment as someone at 0.085.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

yes i agree with that

I believe the situation is the same in the UK. It’s stupid.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 6:23 AM EST up reply actions  

depends on the state.

FL has harsher (not horribly harsher) penalities possible for being .20 or more. Generally for me when I was in prosecution I would like at the situation when recommending a sentence…if they were .08 or a bit above and first time no accident, etc. then I would give the minimum…which is basically a lot of hoops to have to jump through and a complete pain in the ass.. if their second or third…in a short enough time period there is some mandatory jail..2-10 days…I would usually start at 30 days jail for second time (if no other crim record)…I figure if you haven’t learned you need to sit for awhile. Third time within a few year time period..im looking for a year in jail or 6 months in-patient treatment

by ADMDrayson on Dec 14, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

My brother was driving home from a cookout

it was nighttime and he got in a wreck.He pulled out in front of this kid that was driving with his lights off and since he had a .095 level he got arrested for DUI and the kid got off scot-free since my brother was “legally drunk”.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Just Thought I'd Add...

….that “Boilermaker” is one of my favorite Jesus Lizard songs!
;=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

hey cow!

I’m going to see them for New Year’s Eve at the Metro, it’s going to be totally ridiculous. it’s also a blue moon that night so I am going to get plastered. I’ve been listening to the remastered version of ‘Head’ a lot lately, one of the best albums I’ve ever heard

I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Outstanding!!!

:=8D

I’ve been a big fan of theirs since the Scratch Acid days. I thought they had split up?
:=8/

Head = Waxeater & Killer McHann = great stuff!!!
:=8D

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

my own urine is really good too

I CAN’T SEE MY EYES!!

they did a few reunion shows this year, that’s all they really have planned. chicago was lucky enough to get 4 shows this year. I saw them at pitchfork fest this summer, the only band there I watched. David Yow is still a crazy ass mofo. I’m wondering what sort of stunts will be pulled for a new year’s eve show!

I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

it's 4 beers for me

and i’m pretty average weight

yes, i’ve been through SATOP

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

SATOP?

link
what do space aliens have to do with beer?

by _pistol_ on Dec 14, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Not aliens. Alliance.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 14, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

also

yeah, it was stupid, but i should also point out that i was below the legal limit, but was only 19 at the time and got nailed by missouri’s wonderful zero tolerance for minors policy. under 21 and over .008 (yeah, that’s correct placement for the decimal) and you lose your license

absurd

i have my satop completion certificate framed still. what a moron

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

not that i haven't driven extremely drunk

numerous times. but i take the bus now. at least there’s that

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Hard to reconcile

these two comments.

You think the tolerance policy for a minor in consumption while driving is absurd, and framed your certificate (implication is that you’re poking fun at it)…then say you’ve driven “extremely drunk” in the next post. Hopefully the “extremely drunk” came BEFORE the citation…otherwise, I think you just provided some support for the rest of us that MO should indeed yank the license of underage offenders.

by siddfynch on Dec 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

but i did lose my license

so obviously losing my license wasn’t what turned me around. becoming mature and intelligent is what turned me around. all that charge taught me is to check my tail lights before i drive drunk through mu campus

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

knowing is half the battle, dude.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

true

and i don’t want it to appear like i’m condoning. i was an idiot

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

Sounds like we can agree that there just needs to be something more effective as a deterrent, because a lost license and all the proactive food for thought from the satop class (did they show dead children in there?) still didn’t do it.

I’d love to see a study of the rate of future DWIs among minors who get stopped with alcohol in their blood vs. other strata of people. Simply put, does the attitude/predilection/etc that led to one end up leading to more down the road? Sounds like in your case it did, but you at least stopped before you ruined someone else’s life.

by siddfynch on Dec 14, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

If you're drinking underage in Illinois

go to Champaign… They give you a monetary slap on the wrist and send you on your way… it’s really an alcoholic utopia there…

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I got busted smoking pot in Colorado

In my friends dorms. As soon as the cops found out I was from Missouri they were like ‘hell no I ain’t doing that paperwork’ and let me go.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

And from what I understand...

pot is not really a priority in Colorado.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

damn hippies

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

The first rule of a fake

is never use a fake of the state your in… Gotta remember they’re bouncers for a reason… and it’s not to put food on the table during their PhD program.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

which sucks some places

for instance, around sxsw and acl, most places in austin stopped accepting out of state licenses altogether. i still had a missouri id then (because texas wanted my fingerprints to get a dl and i was saying fuck the man). i also didn’t have a car and had to walk to four different gas stations to get a pack of cigs. i was so mad that day

needless to say, texas has my thumbprints on file now

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

That is the first bad thing

I’ve ever heard about Austin in my life.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

it's pretty much the only bad thing

and it’s not an austin law or anything. just something most stores practice around the big tourist times

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Wish I could find a job in Austin

I hear it’s a damn near utopia down there.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

like a real job?

i don’t know what your current situation is, but if you’re looking for a crap job while you go to school or do drugs or whatever, my place of employment is always hiring.

8/hr starting, woo woo!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Real job would be preferable.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

good luck finding one of those anywhere

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't I know it...

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

There was someone several years back at Illinois

who started making fakes… then sold some to people at other Big Ten schools… making it an interstate crime… someone had the FBI up his ass. So let that be a lesson to those of you making and selling fakes… keep it in state.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

The worst part about selling fakes is that you are selling to kids under 21

Which means they normally don’t have any common sense. Selling fakes can be a pretty stupid idea. When I got busted with mine though the cops were like “You bought this online didn’t you?”. Yes, Officer I did.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

well if you selling fakes to people over 21

you have to imagine they are doing worser things than drinking.

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

what is the punishment for driving without a license (or with a suspended one) in the US?

I ask because a big problem in the UK is that a very high % of drivers (like, over 20% in some areas) is people driving uninsured and often with no license. If you’re hit by one of these people, you have limited recourse – there is some insurance fund that pays out in these cases (raising the insurance premiums for all law-abiding drivers!) but, wrongly in my view, the perpetrator is not personally liable for the damage (although I guess you could take them to court, most uninsured/unlicensed drivers probably don’t have the resources to pay for the damage anyway).

IMO, if this happens, the culprit should have their car confiscated and sold in order to pay for any damage to the victim’s car.

What happens in practice is the culprit gets points on their non-existent license, a relatively small fine, and MAY eventually get jail time or something after being caught driving multiple times with no license/insurance. I believe their cars do get confiscated but (slightly ridiculously) they get scrapped instead of being sold if they can’t get someone with insurance and a full license to claim it back within a certain number of days.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 6:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Sounds fair to me.

Drinking illegally, driving while illegally under the influence. It’s not rocket science. My brother was nearly killed by a reckless teen driver whose daddy was rich and bought him out of all his consequences. That kid went on to kill himself and his best friend while driving recklessly and causing yet another accident. People don’t change their behavior if there are no consequences.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

the general consensus

is that .08 is 2 beers in 30 minutes. .008 would be .2 beers in 30 minutes

taking away someone’s license for a couple swallows is ridiculous. punishment for drinking illegally is fair. i don’t see how taking away a driver license is relevant to the offense

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

At your age, it certainly sent a message.

What else should they do? Put you in juvie? Take away your video games?

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

condesenscion aside

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

stupid sbn

condescension aside, yes

the punishment should match the crime. fines, community service, etc. suspension of a dl for charges that aren’t really driving related (aside from the fact that they were discovered while driving) isn’t fair

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's plenty fair.

I guess we’ll just agree to disagree.

Sorry – wasn’t trying to be condescending. Was trying to be funny.

Fines are really a punishment to the parents. And no one ever learns anything from community service.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

fines wouldn't have been a burden to my parents

but i get your point

not that i’m too concerned with it anymore

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

arizona is the worst state for DUI

you can get a DUI for any amount of alcohol in your system. if you are below .06, you’re entitled to a presumption that you aren’t intoxicated, but you can still get a DUI. I actually know someone who this happened to.

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I think most states its similar, at least it was in FL.. the benefit to that is there a lot of times someone might mix drugs

and alcohol. (not saying that happened with the person you knew.) but the statute is generally the state has to prove you’re ability to drive is impaired due to illegal drugs or alcohol. The above “legal limit” entitles the state to a presumption of sorts..if state proves beyond reas. doubt over .08 then the state is entitled to the presumption of impairment.

by ADMDrayson on Dec 14, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

what? that's like a wine base sauce with your steak

and you got a DUI as a minor? that’s just stupid

by d-dee on Dec 14, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

that has always been the law that pissed me off the most....

luckily i just turned 21, but from time to time before that I would have a beer or even a glass of wine with dinner with my parents and I was then at risk of getting a DWI… I’m not saying there shouldnt be a penalty, you should get either a Minor in Possession (MIP) or a Minor in Consumption (MIC). That was the infraction you get is actually accurate because you were in possession/consumption but werent really under the influence

by bigmcq16 on Dec 14, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

i was going to make that argument, but i thought about it after the fact and was trying to avoid my tendency to kick the dead horse

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

also

it’s technically not a dwi. it doesn’t really go on your record and you only lose your license for 3 months as opposed to what, a year? also it’s much cheaper than a dwi. it only cost me a few hunred dollars. in my atop class, one thing we had to do was calculate how much the dwi cost us. most people were between $5000 – 10,000

yikes

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

In a trial of mine an expert testified that one can of budweiser will give you a .02

you also burn .02 in about an hour. So, if you drink one can, after an hour you will be back at .00. So you would have to drink 5 cans of beer in an hour to be at .08

by ADMDrayson on Dec 14, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

So,

even if you continue to drink, you will metabolize the first can in an hour?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

makes sense to me

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless the drinker is Andre the Giant, that expert is an idiot.

Go drink 5 cans of Bud in an hour would put a normal person welllll over .08.

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

For a 200 pound person .02/drink is about right

Everyone’s system is different but that is about the average.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

If I downed a 40 and a half of Bud Heavy

in an hour, I’d be plastered. And I am 215 and have a good tolerance for the booze.

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, now I wish I had a breathalyzer.

Flim, drink 5 beers in an hour tonight and report back with your findings!

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

while drinking

post to VEB every half hour

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I was always bring the breathalyzer when I go out

It is a great conversation starter. I actually carry two with me. The first one I let others use who don’t know how to use it and mouth it up.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Look it up

It’s everywhere. I also had a breathalyzer and it’s empirically true.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

5 shots of 80 proof vodka (every 15 mintues) in an hour

15 minutes after that (no drinking) I was .08. I’m 6’2 190. That’s exactly what the calculators and whatnot said I was supposed to be and exactly what the breathalyzer said I was.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah

0-15-30-45-60

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmm

That would be drinking nearly half a pint of booze in an hour.

If you continued that pace for another hour, what would you blow?

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

chunks?

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

heh

heh

i geddit

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I know how to overswing on a hanging curve

and fly out softly…

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

i had to read that twice, i thought you said chucks

i’ve been pretty wasted in my time, but i’ve never been that wasted

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I've only puked once from booze

and that was the 21st birthday so it doesn’t count. At least not in my world.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i feel ya

The only time I ever blacked out was on my 21st birthday. So it doesn’t count for me either. Every other time I drank I was smart enough to stop drinking.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I have the built in defense

of getting rather verbose after drinking for awhile. So it’s hard to get super smashed when bumping your gums as much as I do.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what my weak somach is for

It’s a nice little warning shot of “stop it asshole!”

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course it doesn't count

Actually, the way I view it, your 21st birthday wasn’t a success if you didn’t puke

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

chalk up another F for gdm

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

By the by

thats a terrible sentence I constructed there.

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

The really important part from the Freese article

was Strauss jobbing Allen Craig yet again:

Freese, 26, has been a regular in the Busch Stadium weight room this offseason and is generally rated the minor-league system’s top power prospect

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2009 8:08 AM EST reply actions  

That's the most important line in the whole article

but when you read the comments after the article, some people are jumping the gun thinking he’s some kinda drunk that won’t play on the field and we need to resign DeRosa immediately. He made a bad decision one night, but if he’s smart he’ll look at it in a positive light and it’ll make him better, unlike those people who are calling for the guillotine. We have 3 months until spring training starts.

Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
I think this is where Rick Ankiel can thrive hitting in front of Pujols--OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
CHUGS LARUE

by cardwash on Dec 14, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Freese

got two tickets, one for DUI and the other for failing to drive in one lane – he was cooperative with officers, but the police did not release his level of intoxication

by CRay on Dec 14, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

poor allen craig

he doesnt get injured and try to hide it, he doesnt get arrested for drunk driving, he doesnt get to play 3B despite being at the very worst average there based on every metric there is…all he does is hit and hit and hit and hit but no one seems to care…

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...

by nomar34 on Dec 14, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

And he's younger than Freese, isn't he?

Maybe they just don’t like his face or something? Wait, do they even know what he looks like?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

but, here’s the thing, and I don’t think that there’s any way around it: You don’t hear any rumors about teams calling and asking about Allen Craig, and in the past two years they’ve made a trade for a minor league 3B (Freese) and drafted one with their #1 pick hoping he could stay at 3B (Wallace). I just get the feeling that maybe someone knows something that we don’t know. The guy has hit at every level, and he’s hit nearly as well as Brett Wallace has at the same levels in the minors, is only a year older, yet Wallace is a consensus A bat with C defense, while Craig is on nobody’s radar except for those of us here at VEB.

Or maybe everyone but us is wrong and he could put up an .850 OPS playing in LF full time next season. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like we’re going to get to find out any time soon.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't we acquire Craig the same offseason as Freese?

My memory is very foggy on this.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

we drafted Craig in 2006 out of Cal, i believe

and got Freese before the 2008 season for Jim Edmonds from the Fathers.

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...

by nomar34 on Dec 14, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Angels not the Friars.

The Bottenfeld for Jim Ed really sucked for Angels’ fans.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Dec 14, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

no

we got Freese from the Padres when we traded them Jim Edmonds two years ago today...

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...

by nomar34 on Dec 14, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Then the Brewers

saw how well that worked and decided building a rotation of ex-Cards who drastically overachieved was a good org model…

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

i think we are just smarter than everyone else

at least i know i am…

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...

by nomar34 on Dec 14, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm going to go ahead and agree...

Kidding of course. That is the great worry with Craig; that there really is something we aren’t privy to that holds him back as a prospect. But teams have been wrong before. It’s just frustrating because whatever that x factor is remains a mystery to us fans.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

i think it's a little more obvious than that

Craig may be a similar in the fact they are both projectable MLB hitters and questionable defensive hitters, but craig has 3 problems, that makes dulls his shine a bit.
 - hits from the right side
 - 2 yrs older
 - drafted later

by _pistol_ on Dec 14, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

wow that was craptastic

they may be a similar in the fact they are both projectable MLB hitters and questionable defensive players, but craig has 3 problems, that makes dulls his shine a bit.
 - hits from the right side
 - 2 yrs older
 - drafted later

by _pistol_ on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

But Freese is older than Craig

At least according to Baseball Reference: Craig was born July 18, 1984, Freese was born April 28, 1983.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

And they both bat right and throw right

I’m confused. I was trying to talk about the comparison between Freese and Craig, why the organization seems to view Freese much more highly than Craig, etc. Are you talking about something else and I just missed it?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

You're comparing Wallace and Craig?

If so, my bad.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

hehe

I went down the exact same train of thought….

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 6:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Heh

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't every single MLB team pass up Albert Pujols more than ten times?

I ask, in an effort to make the point that sometimes, evaluations aren’t going to be exact on what happens later on.

Here’s hoping Allen Craig has a lot yet to prove, as he awaits his Dare-to-be-Bobby-Bonilla-Moment.

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Dec 14, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

The difference, though, is that we’re talking about someone with no professional experience being passed over in the draft (Pujols) versus someone with a positive and verifiable professional track record who’s hit at every level and is a good athlete, just doesn’t draw any interest from anyone, even in his own organization (Craig).

Teams miss out on prospects in the draft, usually due to lack of knowledge or poor projections. It only happens with a guy like Pujols once in a blue moon (Piazza would be the other guy in this category). You don’t see teams missing on too many guys like Craig, though, who hit at every level, don’t have injury problems, and play average to good defense at three different positions. You would anticipate that a guy like that would have the “top prospect” moniker attached to him, yet nobody who evaluates prospects seems to want to put him there, only they can’t quantify why usually. That just says to me that they don’t think of him like we think of him, for whatever reason, and that scouts with trained eyes just don’t think that he can hack it at the big league level.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Thing is, I’m not sure that they can explain exactly what it is that they’re seeing.

I remember talking to a pro scout one time about Kevin Orie, who was an Iowa Cubs 3B with minor league stats that are pretty similar to Allen Craig’s. The guy kept saying he just didn’t think he had the tools to be able to hit at the next level, yet I would ask him why and he couldn’t tell me exactly, just that he “doesn’t look like a big league hitter”. I think sometimes they can look at a guy, after having seen a few thousand players, and just know that he’s not going to make it at the next level or that he’s a AAAA hitter, yet not be able to quantify exactly why. Kinda like Malcolm Gladwell’s “Blink” principle of thin-slicing events.

Orie never really got it together at the MLB level and hung around AAA putting up +.850 OPS’s until he finally hung it up at age 33. He just crushed the ball in AAA, yet nobody was willing to give him a shot at the big leagues as a regular after he failed with the Cubs.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, it would be nice if they'd try!

Kidding of course. That makes sense I guess. The “AAAA” player is a real phenomenon, so there has to be something to this. I will keep hoping for Craig’s sake though, as I am sure everyone here will.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Harry Caray

Used to go bananas for Kevin Orie when he first came up. Caray was highly entertaining to listen to, but he had a real weak spot for the farmhands. He also went crazy over Gary Scott. Lance Dickson also came up and had a fairly good early start, and Caray went on and on about him for a few weeks.

The list goes on and on, actually. Man, I miss Haray Caray.

by Merry CRasmus on Dec 14, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Allen Craig's plate discipline doesn't look fantastic,

but bloody hell we played Tyler frigging Greene.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Dec 14, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

and rick-dick!

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Dec 14, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder if sometimes players just get that AAAA stink on them and it's hard to wash off

Murton has a year and a half of average MLB production and a few years of mashing at AAA behind him, yet for some reason nobody wants to look twice at the guy and he’s off to play in NPB, I guess the confluence of random chance just works against some players, and I sometimes think that scouting works a bit like Chinese whispers – a player gets a bit of scouting noise going and suddenly they’re all rating him higher and higher.

I’m sure there must be a lot of players who can be about league average in their position but, realistically, for each position on the field (given that there’ll be, say, 10-15 above-average players in the majors) there’s maybe only 20 or so spots for a league average guy (perhaps with a few fitting in as backups or utility players). That’s one of the many reasons I feel that paying anything significant (say, a $10m/yr contract) for a league average guy often doesn’t make very good business sense; whilst they are, on average, “worth” that price, you can find a comparable player for less, usually.

Regarding Craig, the one thing I’ve heard about him (and I’m not sure personally, as I’ve seen him hit precisely once) is that he has a very long swing. Perhaps that’s good against RHP of a certain skill level that predominate in AAA, but there’s a feeling he might struggle against MLB-quality breaking pitches? Also, there’s an argument that, even though he’s apparently (at least by TZR) somewhere in the region of average in the field, an average minor league defender is usually going to be below-average at major league level.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll bet Mark McGwire could shorten his swing.

He already bats righty; we all know that this is the side one hits dingers from.
Mark’ll have him hitting dingers on big league breaking pitches in no time.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

scouting 101

1. MOAR DINGERZ!!!
2. ???
3. DINGERZ!!!!!

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

There are certain players who make it though.

Casey Blake would be one. He toiled away hitting AAA pitching pretty well before getting his shot and has been a league average or better big leaguer over the last 7-8 years or so. Scott Brosius, Kevin Millar, and Jeff Conine would be other guys that would fit that moniker: Didn’t really break in until age 27 or so and then spent a solid 5-7 years as a league average player.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 15, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah the list of Plan Bs is not exhaustive

But if ya’ll have suggestions for other position player combo options I’m all ears. Feel free to drop them here in the comments or over at PAH9 in the comments there. I’ll get to as many of them as I can. Off the cuff I’ve got Damon, Dunn (ughhh), and Beltre….

by stevesommer05 on Dec 14, 2009 9:25 AM EST reply actions  

Prefered moves of the moment:

1. Sign Kelly Johnson to play 2nd
2. Move Skippy to the OF
3. Trade Ryan Ludwick for relief help.
4. Sign Matt Holliday.

by JMedwick on Dec 14, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with #4

But, why would you move Skip’s bat to left? Especially with the strides he made defensively at second? Also, why, when it looks like we may not sign Holliday, would you trade Ludwick for the marginal value of a bullpen arm? That makes no sense to me.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Trade Ludwick

Because the Card’s can’t afford Holliday without making the deal.

by JMedwick on Dec 14, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be cutting off their nose to spite their face

A Cardinals team with Holliday instead of Ludwick is only marginally better and a lot poorer.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

I think you’re making a lot of kinda marginal moves there. I like Johnson but it seems all of a sudden that he’s only a marginal upgrade over Skip, and presumably he’ll cost somewhere in the ballpark of what Ludwick’s making this year. Still, I’d try to find a spot for him. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to give him some reps at 3B over the summer and see if he can be a LH DeRosa-style platoon/super-utility guy for slightly less money.

Trading Ludwick when his value is depressed by a poor season (and for a reliever, no less) makes no sense whatsoever to me. If we’re just looking to clear some salary space, there has to be a better way to do it. Which reliever would you want? IMO it’d have to be a young, cost-controlled one with a great deal of talent (to be worth a potentially above-average OFer), and I don’t see too many teams with a surfeit of those sort of players. Oakland’s about the only one I can think of.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:14 AM EST up reply actions  

5. Profit!

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

no no no

5) …
6) Profit!

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Dunno....

I think we’re pretty moooch set with Skipster at 2B, no need for KJ. And I would not trade our main power man behind Pujols for a reliever, unless he’s a young, cost-cowtrolled lights-out closer (good luck!). #4 would be nice, though, as long as we’re not on the hook for 7+ years.

:=8/

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Um no

That sounds like a much worse idea. What is the LaRussa fetish with putting middle infielders in the outfield?

by JMedwick on Dec 14, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean putting

a player with part of one years professional experience playing 2nd (vs. almost 9 years of professional experience in the outfield) back into the outfield.

Clearly that is a radical idea…

by JMedwick on Dec 14, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a poor use of his ability

His bat plays okay at second. It doesn’t play well in LF, and it’s not like he was blowing the world away defensively in LF, either.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Schu is a below-average fielding 2B who can play LF competently

Johnson is a below-average fielding 2B who can play LF competently.

Apples and apples.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Ugh. . .

Neither Skippy’s bat nor his glove play particularly well in LF. That’s part of what makes the Skippy to 2B move so brilliant. Essentially the Birds took a very good 4th OF tweener and turned him into an asset by making him a 2B.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Dec 14, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I was all for #1 last offseason

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

ugh....

Skippy does not have the bat to play in the OF.
And we have a dearth of power-hitting corner outfielders so why would we trade Ludwick for what we do have (or is relatively easy to acquire), which is bullpen arms.

I do agree with #4 though.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 14, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Top 20

I was also surprised to see Steven Hill in the top 20 when Brian Anderson is not. If you’re giving Daryl Jones credit because of injuries, don’t you have to do that same for Anderson? Seems like this was something that must have been overlooked by John — maybe it will change by the time the book comes out.

Other thoughts:

  • It’s nice to finally see someone give Stock some credit. Maybe he hits his way out of being a catching prospect, but he’s still a pitching prospect at that point, and one that can probably hit well for a pitcher to boot. He’s only 19 and I think his ceiling is as high as any prospect we’ve had in our system the last 5 years. This will be an interesting year for him — he’s either going to make it or break it as a catcher by the end of this year, imo.
  • I thought maybe Descalso would be a solid B, but I can see his struggles at AAA affecting his grade a bit. I would venture to say the org values him more than Sickle’s does though.
  • If Stock moves to the mound, starting pitchers make up 4 of the top 5 prospects in the system, although only one will probably make any kind of impact in 2010, and only 1 other in 2011. It’s nice to have homegrown pitching prospects that could possible make major league impact, considering the team has only graduated two good ones (Morris and Wainwright), and one headcase, (Ankiel) to the majors in the last 15 years.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 9:26 AM EST reply actions  

i am with Dan in that i thought Anderson was always overrrated

i never saw him as the top 3 or 4 prospects in our system as everyone had rated him mostly becasue i had seen him play so much in Springfield and never came away impressed. but somehow he became underrated. there is no way he shouldnt be in the top 20 in a year that is as down as this for the farm.

that being said, he has no future in this organization that puts so much emphasis on catcher defense. I would say try to send him in a package to KC for DeJesus but they are set at catcher for the next 2 years…

i agree with you on Descalso in that the org sees more value in him and i dont hold his struggles in AAA against him yet because he was screwed around with so much there with regular playing time and positions.

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...

by nomar34 on Dec 14, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

"KC for DeJesus but they are set at catcher for the next 2 years…"

really?

I don’t see why they wouldn’t consider using Anderson as a backup to Kendall for the second half of 2010 and all of 2011 (where he could take over the starting spot). Not sure he could net DeJesus, but I like the idea.

If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.

by cardzfanbub on Dec 14, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Except

We didn’t graduate Wainwright. We got him in a trade from Atlanta. (For JD Drew I think)

by Mulliganstew on Dec 14, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

He might have been a transfer student...

but he graduated from Cardinals U.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He came out of our minor league system

We got him in the Drew trade along with Jason Marquis, but he pitched in our minor league system for the final two years in the minors before making his debut in the bullpen in 2006. He was a B+ grade prospect in the Braves system at the time and had just completed his first full season in AA ball — but I would still count him as “our” prospect.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm Not as Down...

…on our baby Birds as some on this site, I think we have some decent potential – ok, no Prince Alberts among them, but I think Freese, Garcia, Boggs, Jones, and even Craig Allen Allen Craiga Allen Craig…ummm Craig, that guy, even he has the potential to be good, useful players if given the chance – Fernando Vinas, if not Chase Utleys, if u know what I mean. And sometimes god players can develop into better ones after some seasoning. If we can’t sign Holliday, we cud do worse than Freese and, ummm, that guy in left, and maybe spending the Holliday moolah on someone like John Lackey (can u imagine a rotation of Carp/Waino/Lackey/Penny/Lohse!!!) and maybe a reliever or two. The safe bet is to only rely on 1 rook in 1 position, I know, but this cow just doesn’t see the value out there at third for the moolah that is going to be better than Freese (even with his DWI), and not a lot of decent options in LF – is Johnny Damon, Mike Cameron, or Ryan Church going to be that much better than…ummm….errr…well, you know who.

:=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 9:33 AM EST reply actions  

i hope they are looking

 at church

seems he could deliver good value, albeit with limited ceiling

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Dec 14, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Church

+1 Upgrade over Jay as lefthanded hitting bench (perhaps platoon) outfielder. Go get him.

by jjray on Dec 14, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

There's just not much cream at the top

That’s the problem with our system right now. It could look very, very different, for good or bad, by this time next year. If Miller and Stock both play well, they could both be A-/B+ guys by next year, Garcia may have graduated to the majors as a fifth starter, and Descalso, Jones, and Lynn could all by B/B+ guys if they have good seasons. I’m also hoping the Sanchez, Kelly, and Bittle are going to move quickly through the system to replace some of the relief pitching depth. Ottavino could also surprise this year if he ever gets his secondary pitches figured out — kid has a big league fastball for sure. We should also have a small shitload of picks in the top 100 in the coming amateur draft, and the Cards have also shown that they will be players in the Latin American market if the right type of picks are there. Luhnow really hasn’t disappointed yet with scouting and player development, so hopefully our system will look much better in December 2010.

All that said, if nobody has a breakout year, it’s possible that we might have a bottom five farm system again next year. I think we have a lot of guys who are getting graded based on potential, and guys like Jones could really fall off the radar if they don’t produce this year.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

There's an interesting discussion in the

comments section for Sickels’ post about how the Cards’ farm system is so deep with C level prospects with upside that it’s a deceptively low ranking.

I think there’s a lot to be said for that school of thought. After all, Skippy and Molina would probably have never been tought of as A or B prospects, yet they are both quality major leaguers.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

There was a lot of discussion on the actual discussion thread prior to his Top 20 post about the same sorts of things, and I think that those arguments have merit. Mo and Luhnow have both stated that they wanted to develop a farm system that could provide players from depth and would allow them to make mid-season moves for players, similar to what Atlanta has done over the past 20 years. I think that they are headed in the right direction with how they’ve handled the draft the last couple of seasons — they just need some of these #1 picks to pan out.

FWIW, Wainwright, Pujols, Molina, Skip, Boog, and Rasmus are pretty good turnouts from our farm system over the last decade. Nothing to really complain about there, other than the lack of good quality starting pitchers which I think needs to be addressed.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

it’s remarkable how many guys who weren’t even really considered prospects have come up and been productive major leaguers. Boog, Skip, Duncan, KMac were all C-type guys or virtual non-prospects, and all have provided something of substance in the last few years.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:22 AM EST up reply actions  

they're hungry

and La Russa’s system ensures a lot of work for the bench players. he constantly works (well, except for, say, Thurston) not to expose their weaknesses. The role players get more time to figure it out (well, except for, say, The Hoff) and then there is pixie dust.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Quite a Mooving comment

(sorry MooCow – couldn’t resist – I won’t do it again)

Actually, if Holliday signs, we have our impact players for the foreseeable future with AP, Matt, and (hopefully) Colby. While more impact is always better, a lot of low-cost filler (how I read our system) is not the worst thing. And, don’t forget we will have more than the usual number of high draft picks this year – perhaps we can get some future impact players there.

by CRay on Dec 14, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

That's my hope.

The 2010 draft’s numerous picks will help us to jump-start the system.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

we have lots of low-upside, low-risk types

which are pretty valuable IMO. I’m more than happy for us to graduate our #4 and #5 SP, most of our bullpen, and 3 or 4 starting position players from our farm going forward, for them all to be solid, league-average types, and then to use our payroll to pay for star players externally. I think that works. There are only a few teams with deep enough systems to bring through both star players AND a lot of solid role players, and those are often teams with years of mediocrity allowing them to generate tons of really high draft picks (Tampa Bay).

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:19 AM EST up reply actions  

One thing I think gets lost (possibly, I'm presuming here) in these farm ranking discussions...

is that the farm system exists primarily to serve the interests of the parent club. A “great” farm system that does not translate somehow into improving the major league club is almost worthless. At least, it feels like people talk about the farm systems as if they have some merit on their own, divorced from the major league teams. It could be that this is all implied in these discussions, but sometimes it really seems like this point is forgotten.
The Cardinals are saving a lot of money by having adequate, capable “depth” guys who can fill a spot on the roster for cheap, even if they’re not stars.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

they're not stars

they’re So’s

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

He really needs to get to work on that Japanese cuisine/Baseball bar/Nipponamericana fusion joint.

It can’t not succeed.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe that's why he's going back to Japan

for research

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Dan, I've got that feeling on Damon too

But, I saw yesterday where Boras is seeking a three or four year deal for the 36 year old. I know, no way anyone gives him that, but I would be highly disappointed with anything over two years and even that would be hard to swallow.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

Manny Ramirez II?

My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier

by Taskmaster on Dec 14, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Mather update pls?

I always forget he exists, then I realize some horrible injury occurred. When, if ever, should i look our for the man they call “bombs”?

by spencegrif on Dec 14, 2009 10:23 AM EST reply actions  

Exactly!

We might have Joey Bombs in LF, if he can bounce back. If we can’t spend the moolah on a premium player like Holliday, why spend it on lesser goods?

9/

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

down on Joey

Long swing and problems staying healthy. Plus he didn’t exactly light the world on fire after returning from injury in 2009. Granted only 65 pa’s but his OPS was .691 at AA post injury. I think Mather has to go to AAA and reestablish himself. I’d like to see McGwire work with Mather and his swing to see what he can do with him.

by jjray on Dec 14, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Mather

I get the feeling we’ll shell out 5-6 years for Holliday, then Craig and Bombs will become 100 RBI guys. Just a feeling, though.

In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.

"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.

"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.

"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG

by mateodh on Dec 14, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

getting 600 PA hitting behind Pujols

will make anyone a 100 RBI guy…

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...

by nomar34 on Dec 14, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Aaron Miles?

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...

by nomar34 on Dec 14, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

if that's the case,

then one of them will take over for Ludwick in two years in RF and we’ll take the draft picks from his Type B/A? Departure via Free Agency.

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Dec 14, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

if he were a FA in '09

he would’ve easily qualified as type a

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Hay I Do My Bit.....

…to keep the silliness factor up.

;=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Troll! No, wait... Rec!

I mean… I don’t even know what I mean anymore… well played, sir.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

asshat

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you

At my age pictures help too. Once a geek, always a geek.

by momup on Dec 14, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

rec'd & flagged

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

only you could get away with that

and you do know that the people who post these things about the absurdity of the comments are mostly talking about you, right?

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

if it's not me, i'd hate to meet the poor bastard who they are talking about

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

just because you're the bman doesn't give you the right to steal

i stole that first fair & square damnit

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

And after I stole it from you...

What a jerk…

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm not proud of that, but it brought me & others great joy

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Fellow VEBers

is it not every man’s goal to steal the panda gif. once in their life?

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

you know, i sometimes do wonder if dan gets angry emails about me

i’ve gotten pic happy this off season from boredom, and it’s not like i’m viva, 4stick or the other folks who are uber smart when it comes to stats & stuff. i took a look over the weekend at some stuff & i saw i sure to talk a lot, yet i never really say anything

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't get any e-mails

I keep begging them to, but people who are bothered by the direction of the site invariably put their concerns here.

by DanUpBaby on Dec 15, 2009 3:59 AM EST up reply actions  

^ where Joe Strauss can see them and appreciate them.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm sorry dude, i'll lay low & try my best to not rock the boat any more

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 15, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

if everyone who pops off about the site here really is talking about me

which i’m not sure they are, then would it be such a bad idea to dial back the pics? i’m just sayin, if it causes dan, red & az fewer headaches it would probably be in my best interest & the entire community’s if i voluntarily cut down on them.

i know i come off as a bad ass loner who doesn’t want or need anyone, but that doesn’t mean i should go around giving everyone the finger.

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 16, 2009 2:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I think you should chill on the photos.

Be really choosey. It’ll have the most effect that way.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 16, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

That's true.

Too many pictures takes away the effect of the really good ones.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Dec 16, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Centiquid sighting.
I come to this site looking for…… pics of mythical creatures.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 7:46 AM EST up reply actions  

wasn't there some sort of sunday deadline attached to the holliday offer?

and a day later no news. seems kind of silly for mo to say publicly that he expected a reply by sunday and then let boras make him look like a moron.

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on Dec 14, 2009 11:41 AM EST reply actions  

How do you know they haven't come back to Mo?

You don’t. They may have had tea at 2 AM last night for all you know.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't happen

And as proof, I offer that Strauss hasn’t teased it via Twitter.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

you are right, i don't know that

but i would have expected some sort of leak that “progress was being made” or “details are being discussed” or something of that sort. what do you think is going on?

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on Dec 14, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I personally think. . .

that the Cards are playing hardball to the extent that they should.

I don’t think that there are any other players for Holliday’s services at this point.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i think boston is in

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont think so

if the lackey news is true. I’m basing this off of my complete lack of knowledge about what is going on with boston’s payroll

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

well yeah

i posted that prior to knowledge of the lackey deal

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i know

posted before I read the whole thread. . . saw what you said below and felt like an asshat

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

well

i guess we’re all just wearing our asses on our heads today

at least we have company

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe Dave Duncan should be our hitting coach too?
Well, when you look at the really good clubs in the American League they have one thing that is really pretty common – and that is pitch selection and strike-zone discipline. And what they try to do over there, they really try to work a pitcher. They try to make him throw a lot of pitches by being disciplined. The good offensive clubs in the American League all have that tendency. So if you’re a pitcher who is trying to pitch on the edges all of the time and you don’t control the count, you’re going to have trouble in the American League with most clubs. I think the pitchers that pitch successfully in the American League are basically aggressive pitchers that really pound the strike zone and eliminate that advantage that hitters get when they build up the pitch count and control the count and cause you to get into counts where you have to be predictable.

Damn, I’d love to see that “organizational philosophy” espoused in our organization. Most of the successful AL teams do this very, very well, as Duncan points out. I hope the he gets in Big Mac’s ear with stuff like this because I think that it’s important to the offensive success of our ballclub going forward.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Funny. . .

the “book” on the differences between the AL and the NL have completely reversed field from about 25-30 years ago.

Back in the day, the NL was always considered to be the “fastball” league and the AL was considered to be the league where pitchers were more content to nibble. IIRC, one of the reasons proferred for that difference was that the umpires wore different chest protectors in the different leagues, which led the NL umps to call the high strike more often as compared to the AL umps. Of course, that was back in the days before PitchFX when players all tied onions to their belts, so there was no way to quantify whether that was true or not.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

rec

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing

I wonder about Dave Duncan coaching his sons as hitters as they were growing up. One of the most impressive things about Chris Duncan (you know, when he was healthy and was a good hitter) was his discipline.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

even when

he was unhealthy and a bad hitter.

by spencegrif on Dec 14, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm surprised by how right you are about that

I went and looked up his fangraphs page, and he always had an above average BB% in the majors. his lowest was 9 point something, the other years he was in the 12 to 13 range usually.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe Strauss is a tool

That is all

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 12:07 PM EST reply actions  

i don't see damon coming unless he gets a 3 year deal

and I say no way to that…to long of a commitment for an older guy who already can’t throw and has slowed considerably

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 12:13 PM EST reply actions  

Well done

I must say that I enjoyed this post.

by mwrg on Dec 14, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Chien-Ming Wang talk?

The Yankees let him become a free agent. He’s coming off shoulder surgery, which means he won’t be ready until likely May.

However, at one point, Wang and Webb were discussed in the same breath as having the best sinkers in the game, so he is obviously in Duncan’s pitch to contact wheelhouse and a perfect fit for the Cards ON PAPER.

Given that he would be a formerly successful AL pitcher coming to the NL, he would make for an interesting high-reward sign.

Unfortunately, I don’t think he would want to live in St. Louis or any other city without a significant Taiwanese population, so going anywhere not on the East or West Coast is not an option, whether the Cardinals can pay him or not.

by olddomination on Dec 14, 2009 1:12 PM EST reply actions  

Unfortunately, I don’t think he would want to live in St. Louis or any other city without a significant Taiwanese population, so going anywhere not on the East or West Coast is not an option, whether the Cardinals can pay him or not.

What makes you think that? I’m guessing he’ll go where he’s paid. If he was so concerned about being surrounded by Taiwanese people, he probably would’ve stayed in Taiwan. I think he’s concerned with playing baseball and being paid to do it.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Houston

has a large Taiwanese population as well

by saladdays on Dec 14, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

And They're...

…signing everyone not named Chris Lambert to a cowtract these days…
:=8/

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Serious, Does Anyone??

I mean it is Texas, after all…
:=8P

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Well his leg exploded there...

so there’s that.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 15, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

lackey

is taking a physical for boston

wonder if this takes them out of the holliday sweepstakes. it surely reduces their influence and boras’ leverage, i’d say

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST reply actions  

ken rosenthal says

~5/82

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

could it possibly be

that with the economy as it is (premium box rentals down) and that more teams are focusing on growing their own, that we are finally seeing a drop of interest in free agents overall, perhaps compounded by boras’ approach in holliday’s case?

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Dec 14, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

moneyball

and billy beane taking over the world?

joe morgans unite!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

but yeah

i do think that a shift toward player devlopment is starting to affect the fa market

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

It will be interesting to see how the next CBA affects that.

There are enough players that are starting to write “no arbitration clauses” into their contracts that there is some discussion that the rules might be changed in the next CBA. That might also affect how FA are viewed in the future. I think the surprising increase in payrolls over the last decade have definitely put more organizations into a “build from within” mode. I think Holliday’s situation is clearly making that point this year.

by etp_stl on Dec 14, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

it's also just not a good market for holliday

he would have been better served being a FA last year

also, i wonder how many of the big spenders are relatively holding back and waiting for when albert hits free agency

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

of course

THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN!!!

/not sorry for YELLING

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Dec 14, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

The rules are definitely going to get changed in the next CBA

The only question is whether they eliminate compensation altogether or just tweak it. Juan Cruz being a Type A was a joke.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I doubt it gets eliminated altogether, but something needs to be tweaked. They need better overall statistical models to rate relievers — some of these middle relievers get the fucking shaft with the Elias rankings, like the aforementioned Juan Cruz.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

It should just go by total contract value or summat.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Dec 14, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes

that with the economy as it is (premium box rentals down) and that more teams are focusing on growing their own, that we are finally seeing a drop of interest in free agents overall, perhaps compounded by boras’ approach in holliday’s case? Holliday’s poor ability to hit American League pitching, declining defensive skills and poor post-season?

Fair or not, I suspect that all of those things are involved. I also think that the Yankees would rather go with the affordable, shorter-term (Boras’ demands be damned), in-house option in Damon, rather than risk a 6+ year, umpty-million dollar contract on a guy who 1) has hit far better in the NL than he has in an admittedly small sample-size in the AL, 2) is of an age and body-type where skills can start to erode rather precipituosly, particularly when they already have a buttload of payroll tied up in Tex and Sabathia. Even the Yankees have a budget.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

The Red Sox. . .

admittedly, would seem to make more sense as a Holliday suitor than the Yankees, but I think they have more internal options with their payroll.

Of course, the advantage with the Red Sox signing Holliday is that when he can’t hit before the All-Star break, they will trade him + all of his salary to us for Julio Lugo, whereupon Holliday will OPS 950 for the rest of the season.

5. Profit.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 14, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

this was probably mo's plan all along

low ball boras to get boston involved and convince holliday to be bad enough in boston that we can get him for free

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

If the Sawks sign Scutaro, Lackey, and Holliday (all Type A's)

The Blue Jays and Angels are gonna be a little peeved about their compensation.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

f em

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

You'd think...

it might… It would put their 2010 payroll at around $140 million, up a bit from 2009. Not sure who they could move, other than Papelbon, to get that back down.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, but even so

removing pbon’s salary doesn’t make room for holliday i wouldn’t think

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

they may have to pay all $12M of Lowell's salary

if the Rangers dont like that he needs thumb surgery…

Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...

by nomar34 on Dec 14, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

their salary of players not playing for them will probably exceed the marlins’ real salary

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

It's ok though

when the put in the monster seat they opened a franchise of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing… so they don’t have anything to worry about.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone make their own pasta?

I am looking for a good egg noodle recipe. I have made it in the past and remember the ingredients just not proportions.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 2:12 PM EST reply actions  

I do, but I

normally just do a search @ Foodtv.com to get my recipe. I’m at work, but I have a couple written down at home. Do you have a rolling machine? Best $20 I’ve spent on EBAY.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 14, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

YES!!!!!!

After you use a machine you will never hand roll again. Here’s a link to the same type I got. It’s apparently the standard in Italy. Super easy to use, comes with cutters for fettuccine, and spaghetti. I also got a tray for doing Rav’s that was maybe $15, and it cuts way back on time prepping.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 14, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I just use the attachment for my Kitchen Aid mixer

that thing works like a champ.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I bought the mechanical

before I had gotten a mixer. They both accomplish the same goal though. You can go from dough to noodles in less than 10 minutes though. I worked my ass off with a rolling pin more than once, and the roller is the only way to go.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 14, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing that I like about the attachment

is that I can adjust the width of the roller in the middle so I can keep rolling them thinner and thinner and thinner, which is nice when you’re making a lasagna and want very thin layers of noodles. Not sure if the one you have has the same thing.

The mixer attachment also can be adjusted for speed, which I’ve found to come in handy.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the attachment is $30

or so at Bed Bath

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya, there a 6

thickness settings on the hand machine.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 14, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

From Moosewood Cookbook

2 large eggs—let them warm to room temp.

1 1/2 cups of flour (I usually use 1/2 cup whole wheat, 1 cup all purpose)

Put flour in a bowl. Create a “well” in the middle, then pour in the eggs. Mix together in the bowl, then knead the dough on a flat surface. Let the dough rest for an hour before rolling out.

I use the Atlas Italian pasta cutter by Marcarto—it’s great.

Make about three servings. I have to double the recipe for our family of five.

by gocards62 on Dec 14, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

??

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 2:18 PM EST reply actions  

reply fail

re: rolling machine

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

it's really amazing

how such a simple contraption can roll such perfect cigarettes and the like

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

"and the like?"

Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth.

by RosevilleRedbird on Dec 14, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

like you know

if you needed say, some grass or oats tightly contained in some sort of paper cylinder, it would work for that, too

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Strauss is smart

He was just driving up the price of his keywords on pretweeting.com.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Dec 14, 2009 2:32 PM EST reply actions  

Just goes to show you...

there are a bunch of bored white collar workers out there…

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Rotoworld: the arrest took place in Maryland.

uh huh.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions  

i bet he was leaving west port in maryland heights & that's where he got picked up

almost every night the cops sit there & wait for cars to leave & pull them over. i’ve seen it probably a thousand times. which if that’s the case he’s even a bigger moran than i thought because everyone knows that’s what the cops do.

either way he’s screwed. there’s no way the Cards will take another PR hit & not drop the hammer on this guy. he’s not a star, he’s not a big name, no one is going to defend him. not with this teams recent history. he’s as good as gone. i don’t blame the team one bit, if i was DeWitt i’d do the same thing.

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahah. Come on man.

“moran?” People are gonna start posting that picture.

by sdrone on Dec 14, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

it's a meme

we’re appropriating it

or… gdm is.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

it totally fits & works here

everyone knows the Cards recent history, every player & FO person should always be on guard to not give the team another black eye, but he wasn’t & he didn’t. so he’s a moran.

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Hamsterdam, Maryland? Impossible

ain’t no thug on the block that’s gonna catch a charge slinging or driving their drop-top after sipping some hen in Hamsterdam. By the way, what the hell is there in Maryland Heights anyway that would give him a reason to be there. No limit poker room at Harrah’s I will condone, but if he was at Home nightclub he is an officially registered douche.

by mattyp on Dec 14, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

OT: Controlling Skip

How long is Skip under team control? I rather like the 2B experiment so far, but just wondering how long it will be before we have to start considering replacement options. He’s in his arb years, right?

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Dec 14, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions  

According to...

Cot’s, through the 2012 season, at which time I’ll be more than happy to wish him luck in his future endeavors.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

couldn’t remember the website

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Dec 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

A very bookmark-worthy site,

is Cot’s.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yet another OT: Hey Spants

I just got a fancy new coffee machine, what temp should I brew my java?

Thanks

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 14, 2009 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

we can't do a damn thing without spants, can we

…probably a good thing

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

there are some things she wished we would though

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on the type of bean to start with

But 195-205 is safe. I’ll go on the colder side as it helps to keep it from getting too bitter.

I, like Jimmy, go gourmet because when I drink it I want to taste it.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what she said?

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

You know Joker....

It took me a week to figure out that that was a Pulp Fiction reference. I need to watch that again apparently.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 21, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

my user name compels me to post this
We plan on cooking the hot dogs this year! Well, most of them. And we’re going to open another new club that doesn’t have any views of the field, so when Ryan Theriot is being picked off second base again, you won’t have to see it because you’ll be too busy waiting in line for a $17 Heineken! Did we mention Rudy Jaramillo?

sometimes cubs fans are good for something.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 3:41 PM EST reply actions  

That was amazing...

I started tearing up from laughter at several points. The Cubs are a very rich source of humor in my life. I really enjoy it that way.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/pirates-cards-astros-interested-in-kelly-johnson.html

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 3:47 PM EST reply actions  

I hope we're only "interested" to jack up the price

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree JD, i don't get the fascination around here for him

every time i’ve seen him play i was underwhelmed

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

He was awesome in 2007

But he’s been on a steady decline since. Last season, he fell off a cliff, to the tune of a .224/.303/.389/.692 slash line.

(Although, as his b-r page sponsors note, he did rake in September)

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I love DeRosa

But if we could get Johnson instead on the cheap, I’m all for it. Probably just another Holliday backup for now, though.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Utility Man

I think that is a very enticing role for him, if the price is right.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

so...another boring slow day.

I wish Boras would get back to the Cardinals so we could at least discuss his monumental, unequivocal, flat-out laughing straight to their faces rejection. In the meantime, did anyone see the Dexter season finale last night? I don’t know if we should avoid spoilers or not out of courtesy, but all I can say is that HFS never applied to something more aptly.

by mattyp on Dec 14, 2009 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

avoid spoilers, please

i haven’t seen it yet

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought that the season finale to SOA was pretty damn good.

I didn’t see that ending coming at all.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Best show on television...

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Sons of Anarchy

and I should have specified prime time bracket… That was my bad.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

If there was ever a bona fide badass show, SOA is it.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

but really

the ending of episode 11 was pretty hfs, too. in a more suspenseful manner

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

My friend at the end of the episode

“I think that was the best hour of television I have ever watched.”

Definitely a bit of a mind****.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

i've never seen dexter, but i love californication

that was a good finale last night as well

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

ha...I love Californication as well

but the reasons for that are a bit different….and mostly related to the boob-per-episode quotient multiplied by the Sarandon-daughter-factor. All I can say is, give up fresh fruit or something if you have to, just pay the extra amount for showtime and hbo package. So worth it.

by mattyp on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

if i don't find a gig soon, i'll have to cut back on everything even more than i already have

this fresh fruit, what is that anyway? does it taste as good as the bacons?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

That was such a great show

I still say when Vic was listing his stuff for immunity was one of the best scenes I’ve ever seen on television.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

In Gordo's chat today

he couldn’t give what the offer was, but basically said it was a lowball and will be rejected. At one point, Gordo said something like “the Cards made an offer so they can say they made an offer.” On to Plan B.

by CRay on Dec 14, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah but

yeah but yeah but

gordo is a moran

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

he's not even a baseball writer, really

he’s a football writer

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

ding-ding-ding - epic three way trade

cliff lee to the mariners, halladay to the phils, ? to the jays.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

wow

just saw that

wtf are the phillies thinking? halladay is not that much of an upgrade and he’s going to cost way more. idiotic

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

where?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

why is this jon heyman tweet different from all other jon heyman tweets?

tweet

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

so it's all just still speculation at this point then?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Just double-checking, I assume

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

guessing lee was not willing to do an extension? at least not on their terms?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

i guess

either that or the phillies bought the halladay hype or got gamed by snuffaluffagus or whatever the gm’s name is

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

That has to be it.

Otherwise, this decision is incredibly stupid. Actually, I think it’s incredibly stupid anyhow. Lee at $10MM in 2010 and then for about the same as Halladay for his younger years seems much more palatable to me.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

and he's older and more injury-prone!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

It’s a net gain of 1 WAR (give or take). There are far cheaper ways to add 1 WAR to your team.

I assume that they made this trade, though, because they didn’t think they’d be able to sign Lee, and that Halladay has already said he would sign long term. In that case, it’s okay.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

1 WAR may even be pushing it

This deal just smacks of philly stupidness

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

It's like the Mulder trade...

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

How dare you, sir

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

my eyes are watering for some reason

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

my bowels just started to rumble

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, for a split second

there I recalled some phantasm of sorts, had a name like Ha…Har….Hare…I dunno. But then I blacked out, hit my head on the computer, and vomited all over my keyboard, and the memory faded

by mattyp on Dec 14, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

a rec for violent bodily reactions to maintain sanity

R.P.O.F.Y.M.

by BVHeck on Dec 15, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

brian barton's brother is all

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Kiko Calero was a major loss as the centrepiece of that deal.

I’m pretty certain we didn’t give up much beyond him and Barton.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions  

wtf

why are the phillies fixing what ain’t broke. They got to the WS in large part on the back of Lee, and had him (at least for one more year, wasn’t it) on a very favorable extension. Don’t get it.,

by mattyp on Dec 14, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Jack Wilson

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

heh
After shortstop Jack Wilson arrived in Seattle in a trade last summer, it didn’t take long for him to know he wanted to stay.

“About an hour, hour and a half,” Wilson said by telephone with a chuckle from his home in Southern California on Friday.

That moment was documented in true VEB style on the best night of the year.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

In related news,

I applied for a front office internship with the Mariners. Here’s to hoping!

I applied with the Cards and the Red Sox too

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

good luck!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

good luck

bring us embarrassing holiday photos

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Hell you could probably

apply for GM in Pittsburgh, and have a good shot at getting it. Go big or go home is what I say…

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Huntington actually isn't bad

I’d shoot for the Royals job before any others…

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a valid point

But who wants to GM a DH team? And I’m assuming any team rumored to be interested in Dicky will probably have a GM opening soon.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Good luck man...

that has to be a brutally competitive field.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, being a junior in college

I’ve been thinking a lot about what I want to do in life… what my real passion is, and it always comes back to baseball.

So I give a shot. If I can get an in, that’d be perfect. If not, then I’ll go to Wall St. and makes lots and lots of money :)

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

If you make it...

in baseball, best of luck to you. If you end up on Wall Street, go fuck yourself.

(j/k sort of…)

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Wouldn't it be nice

to have a soul and not work on Wall Street?

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Warren Buffet has a soul

I’ll be like him, k?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Buffett*

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to get political but...

Warren Buffett buys companies with growth potential and attempts to make them better, more efficient, etc… Most of the guys on Wall Street are simply leaches. They don’t produce value of any kind to anyone.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

fail!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

That was entirely my point

Not to mention he’s donates has donated BILLIONS to charity

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

what do i have to do to become a freaking charity?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

kill me now

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

ah...

Buffett isn’t a Wall Street guy, at least I don’t consider him to be… as for charity, who cares? I have a lot more respect for someone making $10 an hour putting a nickel in one of those Salvation Army kettles than for someone with $60 billion giving away half his bankroll.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

What the hell is wrong with my typing today?

This is what happens when I browse VEB while teaching myself ANOVA

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't think he was arguing with you, lol

just correcting your spelling

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

And strippers only get into it

‘to pay for college’…

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

HFS ®

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait!

“I never said ‘I am a Golden God!!!’……or did I?”

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

i dig music

I’M ON DRUGS!

R.P.O.F.Y.M.

by BVHeck on Dec 15, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

mariners making out like bandits

what are the phils thinking?

its a video game trade

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

lessee what the jays get back before declaring a victor.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

can we at least

call the phillies losers here?

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends.

We don’t know that Lee is going to Seattle for sure at this point.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

well, calling the phillies stupid is predicated on them trading lee for halladay and prospects

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Imagine if the Phillies are keeping Lee

I love me some Carp and Waino, but Doc and Cliff is a better 1-2

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know.

I think it’s about equal. I know it’d be nerve-wracking to watch…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

By WAR Doc and Cliff were both better than Carp and Waino last season

Imagine an NLCS between us and the Halladay-Lee Phillies

Total runs scored: 11

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

by WAR

your mom shut up stupid

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

WAR Criminal!

To The Hague with you, jd!

I am channeling Jeremy Greenhouse over at THT:

3. Do not place undue trust in WAR for pitchers. First off, pitcher defense and hitting aren’t included. This should be righted ASAP. Then there are the more nuanced issues like how leverage is accounted for and the conversion of FIP to runs. Personally, I’d trust the calculations of David Gassko’s pitching runs created or StatCorner’s WAR well before I would FanGraphs’ WAR.

4. Do not cite WAR as a measure of skill. WAR measures production. FanGraphs has a lot more granular data if you’re trying to assess skill. And if you’re going to try to make a projection of WAR, regress each component individually. Also, players with negative WAR still may have value if they excel at a certain skill that can be leveraged.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Aw.

I’d say I’m past SABR-n00b status, but I’m still lerning (mispel on perpuss)

I still stand by my assertion

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Not objective.

I’m a rank sentimentalist of sorts when it comes to these types of comparisons. It clouds my assessment. Disclosure: I liked the Morris-Woody vs. Schilling-Unit matchup in 2001…for the Cardinals.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

It seems like Fangraphs does account pitcher hitting for a pitcher's WAR

To my calculation, Adam Wainwright was a 6.2 WAR pitcher last season. However, Fangraphs says he was a 5.7 WAR player. I wondered what was wrong and found that he was a negative 0.5 WAR hitter.

I calculated another starters in NL.

Chris Carpenter : 6.0(pitching WAR) – 0.4(hitting WAR) = 5.6(overall WAR)
Tim Lincecum : 8.9(pitching) – 0.7(hitting) = 8.2(overall)
Dan Haren : 6.4(pitching) – 0.2(hitting) = 6.2(overall)

I think they does consider pitcher hitting when they calculate a pitcher’s WAR.

Cardinals fan from Korea

by FreeRedbird on Dec 15, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

SSS

one of Carp’s at-bats was that grand slam, his first home run; plus his injury meant they wouldn’t run him out to hit more than necessary. AW has been used a lot as a pinch-hitter, and they PH’d almost all the pitchers a whole lot this year. late-in-games, getting desperate with the bench, higher leverage = might affect WAR more?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

It's nowhere near equal

From an injury perspective OR performance. Waino isn’t at Lee/Halladay territory. This isn’t a knock on Waino, it’s credit to Lee/Halladay.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough

though i was just saying the mariners are getting a better value than the phillies

will be very interesting to see what the jays are getting

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

and only if forced trading is on

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno about that

If they’re donating say Morrow, Triunfel, Saunders and Aumont I don’t think that would be a win.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

one things for sure - with the angels losing lackey and figgins and all the horse trading the M's have done

they better win the AL West this year, esp. if lee is only staying for 2010.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

But they gained Matsui

(Joking.)

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Word

Rangers fans are having a bad day, too.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

true enough

if they are giving that much up, then both the Ms and the Phils are morons…and the jays are genius

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope that Mo at the very least inquired about being involved

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

(That is, if he even knew what was happening)

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

We have nowhere near the prospects to get this type of deal done

Talks, I assume, start and end with Colby

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

or waino

both would make me cry (as i wear my colby jersey t)

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Might as well just see what they're asking, if they're even the slightest bit interested

Wouldn’t hurt

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you're absolutely right

It’s just 1) We don’t have the prospects
2) If we did, it would KILL KILL KILL our farm system for a 1-year player who isn’t guaranteed to sign an extension
3) I think there are diminishing returns when it comes to pitching. We’d get a higher return investing in a hitter

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

comments on lookout landing

pretty priceless

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

someone thinks Glaus = veteran leadership

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

i saw that

and guffawed

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

he was always leading the pack

at the buffet

that’s the kind of leadership colby could use

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

oh Santa

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I want to feel like them

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

we've had our moment

that’s why it was our summer to enjoy
but really I can’t see any deal like that which wouldn’t cost us big time. there’s always going to be some bittersweet with any Cards deal

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Especially,

if you are one of those commie faberge egg propagandists.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Adam Dunn collects antiques?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Only those of Russian origin (because he hates America, ya know),

and while he prefers those of Soviet vintage (because he hates democracy and America), he has been known to collect faberge eggs (because he hates baseball, having lived in his mother’s basement for years).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Addendum

King Felix-Lee as 1-2 is pretty friggin fierce

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

It's more than fierce

It will stomp stomp stomp all over your face until you’re the deadest team in town.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

i bet Lee is gone before july 31st

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Cliff Lee must be pissed off by all this moving

he’ll go Cliff Fucking Lee on everyone.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Timmy K on wwlnews just said he's not sure it's lee going to seattle

could be ja happ. HFS® if that’s the case

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/24/961406/the-cardinals-acquire-matt

We were not as excited

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:41 PM EST reply actions  

don't put links in the title

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/24/961406/the-cardinals-acquire-matt

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Dec 14, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

bad mysterui!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

not bad

just didn’t know

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Dec 14, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

It's called realism

They’re acting like they got Cliff Lee for a bucket of baseballs. The price just hasn’t come out yet.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

missed reply?

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Dec 14, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Per Baseball prospectus
According to multiple reports, Roy Halladay has been dealt to the Philadelphia Phillies as part of a three team deal. The Phillies will send Cliff Lee to the Seattle Mariners. There are also "a ton of smaller pieces" in this deal, players which I’m told are "top prospects" and "major league guys."

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:43 PM EST reply actions  

as one guy at the good phight said

its a clusterfuck

may not be finalized til tomorrow

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

clusterphuck?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

presenting your 2010 Phillies

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Dec 14, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Brad Lidge is a reliable closer!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Lidge vs Franklin?

who would you rather have?

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Dec 14, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Franklin.

Lidge’s blown saves are epic.

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Frankie

I know what his mental deficiencies are, and they’re easily correctable. Dunc claims to know the physical side.

Lidge is like that last tire they change on the ice road — might blow out at any time and throw you off a cliff then bury you in the avalanche.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Lidge, easily

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

yep

If Lidge can get it back, he is fucking awesome. Franky…not so much.

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

The peak of Franklin was May-August 2009

Serviceable.

The peak of Lidge was 2008. Unhittable.

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

This will be fun to sort out

how many players could a “ton” be

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Dec 14, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

i believe a ton is 8 or more

5-7=a lot
3-4= a few
1-2=a couple

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

well a ton is 2000 lbs

so 8-10 200lb guys would make sense :)

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Dec 14, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Where does several fit in?

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe it's more like this

6-7 = a lot
4-5 = several
3 = a few
2 = a couple
1 = straight up

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet a "ton" is

Morrow (major league guy) + 3 prospects, Lee + mid-level prospect, Halladay + some scrub big leaguer. That’d make it an 8 player deal.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say

Phillies get Halladay

Mariners get Lee, Accardo

Blue Jays get Morrow, Taylor, Aumont, Saunders

In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.

"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.

"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.

"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG

by mateodh on Dec 14, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be a pretty good haul for Toronto

Morrow and Aumont would just add to their list of kick-ass young pitchers, and Morrow could replace Lidge as their closer next year.

If they can get 4 B or better prospects for Halladay, kudos to them. Now if they could find a way out of that Vernon Wells contract………..

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Vernon Wells is going to haunt their dreams for years to come I' afraid.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

If I'm the Jays...

I hire the best lawyers out there to find a way out of that contract.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Still money ahead from a fan base perspective...

Look guys… we had a problem and we went to no expense to fix it. Please buy a hat.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha

If that doesn’t build confidence, then I don’t know what would.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

This is why I should be allowed to run a baseball team...

We may suck on the field. But I’d win the battle on the webernets every day of the year.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

King of the Pegacorns eh?

Boldly creating confidence where none exsisted before?
Ducttape for Prez!!!

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't understand the point to get Halladay

If you have to trade Cliff Lee. Cliff Lee is cheaper and also a Cy Young caliber talent. Seems pointless to me.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Simple

Lee: “Screw you guys, I’m hitting the free agent market after 2010 season.”
as opposed to…
Halladay: “Free agent market? Not if you shovel cash my way.”

by sdrone on Dec 14, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

this.

Apparently the Phils were trying to sign Lee to an extension this off season and the negotiations were going nowhere.

I have no link, just a friend who’s a Phillies fan.

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmmm.

Doesn’t every option entail shoveling cash the player’s way?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't understand why either one of them wouldn't hit FA

it’s a stupid move not too. the wwl is saying Roy is already in the city of brotherly shove working on a new deal. i wouldn’t do that if i was him. he must really want out of canada if he’s willing to not see what the sawx, yanks, dodgers & the other big market teams are willing to pay for him.

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

they made his wife cry

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

what?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

yup

this link, so you can read all about how Joel Piñeiro beat the D’Backs by himself.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Morning-Juice-Joel-Pineiro-performs-one-man-sho?urn=mlb,177469

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

damn but I hate those yahoo links

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

oh so she was happily crying, that's not what i thought happened

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

no she wasn't

she was upset

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

They're really a bunch of jerks

really

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

i'd guess the chance to play for a contender for his 1st time

is playing on this as well.

and perhaps some phans are sending lots of cheesesteaks

by FunkeeC on Dec 14, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Piez > cheezesteakz

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

word

i guess our efforts were aimed at the wrong cat.

by FunkeeC on Dec 14, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

cliff lee is allergic to cheez wiz and grade D meat?

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Moyer is about ready to have his AARP Card sent in the mail

I wouldn’t make long term plans based on his being in your rotation. Lee is as tough on righties as any LHP out there right now.

This has a lot more to do with the fact that Halladay wants to sign long term there than anything else.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

looks like aumont and dominic brown to the jays

Toronto may just be a huge winner

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:51 PM EST reply actions  

well the tweet that was under has gone blank

it was jim bowden’s tweet…other people have quoted it…so the tweet did exist at some point

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It probably wasn't supposed to be released quite yet

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It's changed to Aumont and Michael Taylor

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Beat me to it.

That would be a very nice acquisition.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

We do know that the team is looking

for a guy who can spot Franklin and set up. Capps seems like that kind of guy. Seems promising.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd want Frankling setting up Capps

Not the other way around

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah well

You take what you can get, I guess.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Given what it took for TLR to remove Izzy from the closer's role,

I imagine any hope of Franklin setting up is not particularly realistic, no matter how badly we would prefer it.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Dec 14, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd go for a platoon

they did say they wanted to rest Frankie more

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Capps has "proven closer" juice

I think if he signs and does OK in ST that TLR will have Franklin on a very short leash.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

me too

but franklin had success last year. i think he’s plenty deserving of first shot at it unless we acquire someone like rivera

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

When we start calling someone else Maverick?

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

...

Motte: hey guys will you please STFU, I’m watching American Idol.

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   5 recs

LOL

and rec’d

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

why would Motte watch idol?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Because everything about Motte is crazy

You don’t expect him to watch Idol, and then you see his shadow in the background of that youtube video where the ’tween girls lose their shit over the results

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

nobody expects Jason Motte!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

well now we need an awesome photoshop job

make all three of them Motte vexed!

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

motte, ryan, franklin?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Motte, BR, Cloby

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

colby was a surprise?

thought that was the next generation…

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

our chief weapon is surprise, surprise and fear. or rather our two chief weapons

are surprise, fear, and a blazing high-90’s fastball. oh wait, i’ll come in again. . . .

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

"Nobody Expects the Cardinal Inquisition!!"

“Among our weaponry are surprise, fear and surprise, fear surprise, and Albert Pujols ridiculousness…and nice red uniforms ooooooooooooooooooh!’

;=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm down.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd want Capps setting up John Smoltz

And Franklin assuming the WonderBrad role

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Completely agree

His peripherals look good, just a bloated HR/FB rate. Due for a huge regression

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i wants him for us bullpen

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I was hoping Mo would check him out

I’d certainly like to improve the bullpen.

by sdrone on Dec 14, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Strass tweets Cards are the forth team...

in the blockbuster: Wainwright to the Blue Jays, Edwin Encarnacion the centerpiece coming back.

Looks like we’ve got a third sacker. The DWI forced our hand.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:14 PM EST reply actions  

this is my crazy face

i am holding a knife

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

I lol'd.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

oh no.

don’t tell clemsongirl.

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Go drive around...

the backwaters of Alabama, I bet you’ll turn up more.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

don't everybody do the math all at once.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

haha, is it really from that time?

[is not doing the math]

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

or drinking heavily...

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

damn it, someone do the math

‘diagnosis’ was around late June http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4298241

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You brought it up...

you do it.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I was told there would be no math

I’m actually on about three different tabs right now. i’d fail 1+5

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

so June is five months on?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I said I would!

pre-emptive That’s what she said.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...

Technically the pregnancy back-dates two weeks or so to the woman’s previous menstrual cycle. So you both could be correct.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

 B_Walton
Rasmus has new baby daughter, Cards offical statement on Freese arrest at TheCardinalNation message board. #stlcards http://bit.ly/7bJPUz

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

wtf

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

the Cards are turning into a cliche of themselves

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Bunch of god damn drunk rednecks

no wonder Holliday wants out. Not nearly enough pie to make up for living in Little Sodom.

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Albert's next if things don't get cleaned up asap

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

so much for Plan B.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well we now know

Kory isn’t a part of Plan B… thank you thank you I’ll be here all week.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

explaining my punchline doesn't get you the gig, man.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

see, there's another reason i'm never having kids

if i had to give up my M3 & M5 for a stupid kid i’d kill myself first. Denali’s are nice, but there’s now way in hell i’d give up the M’s

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

for some reason I can't read that file

so I picked out the good parts. fake blockquote

    easton714 wrote:
    Here’s to hoping that Colby sticks to prune juice and Sierra Mist (or has the sense to have a flipping DD)!!

{parental disapproval, past indiscretions, guiding your kids, etc.}
Fortunately for me three of mine believe getting drunk to be a sign of weakness so I don’t have to put up with much of it.

And Colby with his new baby girl, Rylee fresh on the scene, has vowed to set a glowing example of what a parent should and should not do. And drinking is one of the should nots.

I did text Colby first thing this morning and told him about David. His reply, “Damn, will this hurt his chance of making the team next year”, he asked. My reply was, Man-o-man it sure can’t help.

David’s family are great people and David is a fine young man. I’m sure noone is more embarrassed this morning than is the Freese family so there is no need to pile on. All we all can do is hope our kids make wise choices in this life but sometimes they don’t understand that they are under a microscope and are not like everyone else. [noidea]

{ stuff we already talked about above }

Yes Easton, Colby had a daughter, Rylee, about 5 weeks ago.

She has had a profound affect on him to this point. He sold his M3, [frown]. He sold his M5, [flushed]. He bought a mini van……………………………………….N o he didn’t, I’m just kidding. He did sell the BMW’s and bought a Suburban(Denali) because he wanted the little lady to be up off the ground more in case someone ran into them. [eek] He is like a mother hen.

EDIT – Thanks Austin, I am warming to the grandpa thingy, but there is an adjustment period that I’ve been going through. I am experienced with boys but am down right scared of a little girl. My family is extremely close knit and it has been cool watching all of Colby’s brothers react to a girl around the house. I can’t help but laugh at them all as they treat her like the Queen of Sheba. [biggrin]

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

that's disappointing

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

February can be kind of a dull month...

for someone who isn’t a pitcher or a catcher.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

how so?

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Dec 14, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

as far as I know

Colby isn’t married.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

long term relationship I can see

some couples aren’t into marriage
but no word of that either

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

People shouldn't have sex...

unless they’ve acquired the appropriate license from the government.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

hey man

like you can’t tell people how to live their lives man. (I’m completely on board with people proving they are responsible enough to breed)

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm mostly pissed he ruined my joke

next time, don’t take a shot at a player’s virginity

….though maybe TWSS.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

listen, no one, and that includes me wants a bunch of little fat gingered gdm's

running amok all over this planet. but if the gov’t takes over who gets to have the sex, just kill me now because i’ve got nothing left to live for.

do you want that on you all’s conscience? do you? can you live with that?

what am i saying? of course you bastards can live with that.

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

They put the nutritious stuff...

in the centerpiece as a kind of decoration, then eat the shit.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

come on man, i'm already down, do i really have to be kicked?

and i said fat gingers cody

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

It's like Norman Rockwell dropped acid and then started worshipping Satan

This is the first thing he created when he came to.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

good heavens no

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

not the hot ones

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard she was his long term girlfriend (since 2005) but they broke up.

I don’t know if that’s true, I read it on the internet.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Dec 16, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

makeup sex?

oops.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 16, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

huh?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 15, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Question:

Does the signing of Lackey preclude an acquisition of Matt Holliday by the Red Sox?

Discuss.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2009 5:43 PM EST reply actions  

touche

I missed that part. It could be because my heart stopped when reading some line about us trading Wainwright.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

But seriously...

it puts their payroll at around $140 million, up a little from 2009. The question is can they get that down and/or would they send it past $150 million. The only way to save money is to trade Dice-K or Papelbon, and I don’t know if anyone would pay $8-$10 million next year for those guys.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

heard they were capping at 140

on mlbtr i think

or maybe that was the phils

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably.

They’re not going to want to take on that kind of money. Of course, they’re not going to want the Yankees to get him, either.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

In a perfect world

the mets sign bay
the angels sign matsui
the yankees sign damon
the redsox sign Lackey+trade for Gonzalez

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

My thought it was plan B

But there is reports of them also signing Aroldis Chapman and they are interested in Beltre. I don’t see how money is left for Holliday let alone Bay after all of this.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, but first please tell me what preclude means

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Preclude? No.

Make significantly less likely? I’d say (and hope) so.

Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort

by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

6ly i say no, i still think both them & the Yanks are in play till he signs elsewhere

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm definitely not going to count them out until he's signed.

I’d rather not let my guard down, only to get crushed.

Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort

by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

No

Because I think they will look at dealing Bucholz for a bat if they sign Lackey. With Lackey, their rotation looks like this:

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Dice-K
Wakefield

There’s no room for Bucholz there unless they bump Dice-K, and I’m not sure they can get anything valuable in return for him in trade. Bucholz will bring back better trade bait. If the Lowell deal ends up going through, I can see them going hard after Adrian Gonzalez, which would move Youkilis to third base and give them another lefty power bat. My guess is that a combination of Bucholz and Lars Anderson would probably get that deal done. Victor Martinez would move back behind the plate a little more than half time, while DHing some to keep Papi rested as he seems to be less and less able to take 600 PA’s in a season. Their outfield would then go the defensive minded route, maybe picking up Mike Cameron or Coco Crisp on the cheap to play CF and moving Ellsbury to left.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry

that should read:

No

BUT I think they will look at dealing Bucholz….

I really should stop typing in two threads at the same time….

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea, I was going to say.

I also agree that they’ll probably be looking at a trade.

That rotation just seems excessive otherwise. They also have Bard, Bowden, and Bonser too. Any of them should be OK as a 5th starter.

Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort

by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Bard or Bowden

are ever going to see the rotation, especially Bard. He’s going to end up being the closer next year if they can find someone who will give something back for Papelbon. I’m just not sure anyone wants to trade for a closer that will make ~$9M next year.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea, to be honest I haven't kept track of the Red Sox pitching prospects

I just mean they easily have a sixth guy even without Buccholz.

Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort

by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Me too

unfortunately, I don’t think we have the ’spects to trade for anyone at the moment, considering 2 of the top four prospects in our system came out of this years draft and are graded specifically on potential alone.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

they wouldn't take lugo?

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Dec 14, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a bad feeling Dice will be "injured" by May

and this problem takes care of itself…

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 14, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I also forgot

that they’ve offered big bucks to Aroldis Chapman as well, which would make it even easier to deal Bucholz.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

And Boof Bonser is in the mix as well

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

With a Name Like Boof...

…you KNOW he’s golden!
;=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

despite knowing nothing about him

i was secretly hoping we acquired him based solely on his name

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

And supposedly they’re in serious talks with Cameron, which would be a cheaper Holliday alternative…

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

No

but the acquisition of Cameron probably does.

by chuckb on Dec 14, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I think third base has to be their priority

who’s going to start at 1B if they move Youk to third? I think they’ll get Beltre for 3/30-ish (maybe a bit less) and they’ll be done.

It’s the Yanks and Mets who worry me, still. More so the Mets as they’ve got a protected first round pick. It’d be tough to give up Wallace, Mort and Pietersen for a 2nd rounder and a sandwich pick.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

OT: Who else is stoked for Avatar?

Roger Ebert’s 4 star review opens with

Watching “Avatar,” I felt sort of the same as when I saw “Star Wars” in 1977

I’ve bought my ticket for the Thursday midnight showing. The only theater showing it in iMAX, though, is in KC

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 6:33 PM EST reply actions  

I have no desire to see......

what was it we decided..Ferngully?

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 14, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Well of course the plot is guessable

It’s a Sci-Fi movie. How do you discount that quote from Ebert (who is just phenomenal, by the way.

His Zero-star quotes

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess I'll copy/paste a couple

On Freddy Got Fingered:

This movie doesn’t scrape the bottom of the barrel. This movie isn’t the bottom of the barrel. This movie isn’t below the bottom of the barrel. This movie doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with barrels.

On The Brown Bunny:

I had a colonoscopy once, and they let me watch it on TV. It was more entertaining than The Brown Bunny.
After director Vincent Gallo responded to the above criticism by mocking Ebert’s obesity, Ebert responded: “It is true that I am fat, but one day I will be thin, and he will still be the director of The Brown Bunny.”

On Little Indian, Big City

Little Indian, Big City is one of the worst movies ever made. I detested every moronic minute of it…if you, under any circumstances, see Little Indian, Big City, I will never let you read one of my reviews again.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Dec 14, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

You gotta like the way he paraphrased Churchill.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been stoked since

reading about the production of the movie in both The New Yorker and Wired magazine last month. I’m going to try and go see a matinee on Sunday at the only place in town showing it in it’s full 3-D format.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm going with my standard policy

if I see ads for the movie more than 2 months before it comes out. I don’t go. If the movie was good it’d speak for itself.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 15, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I haven't really seen anything to get me interested

but a lot of other people seem excited, so I might go see it or at least check it out.

Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort

by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

With you.

I’m not a cartoon movie watcher either. If it’s not a Smurfs movie, I’m not watching.

by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Dec 14, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

with long necks!

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I need a beer

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

A blue giraffe?

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

shot at mr spants right out of the blue

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

rip mr spants, we hardly knew thee

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not doing a tombstone!!!

but if you want some flowers, well maybe.

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't want any flowers, no

at least not from you. no offense cody

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks, i'll be here all week

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

couldn't care less, and in fact i hope it bombs

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

you shouldn't hope it bombs

If it bombs studios will be afraid to invest in movies. So you will see a lot of the same crap like bad sequels.

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

no i won't see them because i literally won't go watch them

but i get your point & it’s a valid one. but i still think it’s a bad movie & way over hyped, too expensive to make & will just suck in general.

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

when have studios ever been afraid to invest in movies?

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Most of the movies I see

are made for $30M or less. I could give a shit if some stupid studio wants to throw Micheal Bay a bunch of money to make a sequel to a movie about talking robots from another planet, while putting Megan Fox’s butt all over the screen in various glorified positions because her ass is the only thing that’s interesting about her. I’m pretty much averse to any kind of big budget popcorn flick, because they never cast the right people or let the director’s have creative control over the whole process — the studio always wants to meddle, which is how they ruined the Spiderman franchise by subjecting us to multiple villains so they can stack the cast with hot actors, and how Tobey Maguire ended up being Peter Parker in the first place. The last big budget movie I really liked was The Dark Knight a couple of summers ago, and Chris Nolan got to do that movie exactly the way he wanted to do it. His cast, his story, his equipment, HIS WAY.

I’m going to see Avatar because Cameron is a great storyteller and his anal retentive ADD when it comes to his movies almost always turns out a great product, even if it is sometimes predictable. Aliens and the first two Terminator movies were impressive. Even Titanic was pretty impressive, just for the sheer amount of detail spent recreating the massive boat simply from diving the wreckage 4-5 times in submersibles.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

It won't bomb

Transformers 2 was a success and it was an abomination. This is, by all accounts, as much of a spectacle, without so much suck, with the same amount of endless advertising to build hype.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

screw that guy, he let dark angel get killed

i’ll never forgive him for that

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

James Cameron made Titanic.

And that also got good reviews. I am still skeptical.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I know, I'm just saying he's not infallible or anything

He has made some truly awesome stuff. Hell, I still really really like True Lies. I wouldn’t put it past him to change my mind, I’m just saying I can’t be the only one who looks at Avatar and thinks “this doesn’t look very good,” can I?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

No

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you

I was beginning to think I was crazy…

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Phew

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

didn't you read above & see spants & i also aren't down with it?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

What's interesting to me about Titanic

is that, when I first saw Leo DeCaps, it was in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape, and he was so good, I thought he was actually mentally handicapped. Then I saw Titanic, followed by The Man in the Iron Mask, and “realized” I was dead wrong, this guy can’t act his way out of a paper sack. So that was that….until I saw Gangs of New York, followed by Catch Me If You Can, followed by The Aviator (sort of), followed by The Departed, and I had to revise my opinion again. He was pretty good in Blood Diamond, too, and I’ve heard good things about Revolutionary Road, even if it does have his partner in the crime known as Titanic as his love interest. According to IMDb, he now has 2 films in post-production, 2 in pre-production, and 2 that have been announced, along with 26 (26?!?!!?) projects in development. Sheesh! Can you say over-exposed?

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I thought he was awful in Gangs of New York

and very nearly ruined an otherwise interesting film. Although I suppose it’s difficult to look good when a lot of your scenes are alongside an actor of DDL’s calibre.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I am similarly conflicted about Leonardo DiCaprio

I think he has a lot of acting ability, I just think he doesn’t always turn in stellar performances. He was amazing in Gilbert Grape. He has great in some movies and ho-hum in others. I really enjoyed Catch Me If You Can. He and Hanks were good and Christopher Walken was great in a supporting role while not being totally bizarre (I love it when he is bizarre, but it was also cool to see him be so surprisingly normal, relatively, in that movie).
Gangs of New York was a movie that I think was a great experiment. Some things about that movie I really love. Daniel Day Lewis, the entire concept, the idea of having these mini-epic battles between warring factions, the exaggerated style, etc. It really fell apart by the end in my opinion, but there is a lot to enjoy.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

yes, I agree the ending was weak

I think it’s sometimes an interesting exercise to do period work in what (I assume, unless it was just really poorly executed) is not a believable period “style”. Often has a cool “other-worldly” feel to it that historical purists probably hate but which I quite like, visually at least, in movies. I think GONY did that really nicely. Other than that, I felt DDL was about the only good thing in it, but somehow it added up to a largely watchable and interesting mainstream flick.

I just think DiCrapio (did you see what I did there???) is relatively limited. He’s also seemingly deliberately gone for roles in the last 5-10 years or so to get away from his babyface/teeny reputation, which is a shame, in a way, because for me his best performances were in roles like Gilbert Grape, the Baz Luhrman Romeo & Juliet film, and I thought he was fantastic in the Quick & The Dead as well (which is a real guilty pleasure of mine). I think he was just mis-cast in a lot of the movies in which he’s sucked. They’d have been better going for a no-name young actor for GONY (I also think Diaz was a pretty uninspired piece of casting, although I guess she was kinda adequate).

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Cameron Diaz is a little better than people give her credit for.

I’m not asking for her to win Oscars or anything.
I think you are probably mostly correct about DiCaprio. And the Quick and The Dead is a great guilty pleasure movie.
Daniel Day Lewis almost makes you root for him in that movie. He’s so charismatic as The Butcher. Native Born! The flesh of a hog is the closest thing in nature to the flesh of a man! I just loved that character so much.
The more I think about it the more I wonder if the story would be better suited for an anime or something. I mean, you broke down exactly what I meant with the weird, stylized version of the period it’s based on. The top hats were way more epic than I assume most top hats were. Hell, Liam Neeson was beating the crap out of people with a sword and a giant metal Celtic cross. I think it would have made a good adult cartoon.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem is

that in most of the movies in which he has sucked, he has a producer’s credit as well, so he essentially cast himself — the only one that isn’t that way is GONY, and nobody is going to look good playing next to Daniel Day-Lewis, as you’ve pointed out. My Left Foot puts Leo’s turn in Gilbert Grape to SHAME.

The Quick and the Dead. Great movie. Gene Hackman and Russell Crowe are awesome in that movie and it’s perfectly cast — nobody could play The Lady like Sharon Stone. Maybe Linda Hamilton, but that would be about it, and she’s not as attractive.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 15, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't realize the producer part.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't you hear? James Cameron to Boston

I think this means the Cards are definitely still in the market for Peter Jackson.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

But which one?

It better not be Frodo or Sam. I’m serious. Now I’m all worried…

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

huh

have you forgotten about the Manstew already?

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

They’ve advertised the hell out of it and it has special effects. That’s all it takes.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

What a horrible movie both of those movies were.

I just want to drive up to my local Malco and start punching people standing in line to see Twilight.

by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Dec 15, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I am actually very surprised it is getting good reviews.

Based on the ads, it looks to me like a very predictable and crappy story. It just looks like like a silly mash-up of Pocahontas and Ferngully set against a bland allegory of Vietnam (or Iraq if you prefer). The more I see and the more I learn about this movie the less excited I get for it.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

a name getting no play on VEB

what about gabe gross?

the artist formerly known as devil_fingers has a neat write up on him at fangraphs. i would think a gross/craig platoon in left would be a 2+ war platoon.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 6:38 PM EST reply actions  

I'd still rather have

Ryan Church or Kelly Johnson or Eric Hinske if we’re looking at platoon partners for Craig.

I also think that Jack Cust merits at least a close look. He’s similar to Chris Duncan when Chris Duncan was good, only he takes even MORE walks. Yes, his defense isn’t very good, but I think you can limit his damage there by removing him in the late innings as well as platooning him with Craig.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

church and gross seem nigh-indistinguishable; both have league-average offensive projections and ++ defensive

profiles in the corners. johnson is probably less of a glove in the corner OF spot (hard to gauge, since he hasn’t been there) but has more of a .340, .350 wOBA projection, and hinske is a league average-ish bat but probably just a + defender, not ++.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

They seem that way

but I think that Church has a much better track record than Gross does at the major league level, although his skills may have diminished to the point where they are pretty indistinguishable — I will give you that.

Hinske would be my favorite out of that group, especially if he can still play 3B occasionally and not be horrible at it.

As far as defense goes, if you’re platooning someone who’s worth about a win with the glove over 150 games, he’s only going to be worth about half a win or so over th 125 games that he would probably play. I’m not sure, at that point, that it’s really worth taking a premium on defense. If we’re doing that, we might as well just call up John Jay, who can play + defense in CF and ++ defense in the corners even though he probably won’t be a league average hitter, then spend that extra coin shoring up the #5 starter and finding an infield utility man who can play 3B.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

We could always use more Auburn Tigers on the roster :P

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

War Eagle?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

War Eagle!

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

do Eagles & Cardinals get along?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course!

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

i wonder if now that he's a daddy if he'll stop wearing those shades?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah, he'll just buy a mini pair for his lil'un

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

sign me up

for a gross/craig platoon, if we don’t go on holliday

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

TLR giving suggestions on how to improve the game...

very interesting, Bud

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 6:41 PM EST reply actions  

huh!

the twitters are gone.
→ “La Russa has been selected by commish Bud Selig to serve on a panel to discuss ways to improve the game”

dunno, I don’t have time to dig them out again. maybe they changed their minds…

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm at work,

and thing’s get blocked. This is all I could see.

TLR giving suggestions on how to improve the game…

very interesting, Bud

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 14, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

"Well of Course He's a Rat!"

“You have rats in Spain, or did Franco have them all shot?”

;=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Dec 14, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Now...

this would eliminate the Red Sox from the Holliday sweepstakes, presumably.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 6:55 PM EST reply actions  

urg. on one hand, if it makes it more likely to land holliday for something reasonable, i guess it's a good thing.

i don’t know i ever really thought the cards would sign cameron. makes more sense for the sox. ellsbury is not a CF.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I just speculated on that very thing up above

I wonder what they’re going to do with Jeremy Hermida then? Ellsbury would move to LF if they sign Cameron, and Hermida would be the odd man out in the outfield, unless they plan on using him as a 1B, while moving Youkilis to 3B.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

seems like he'll be a 4th OF spelling drew and ellsbury. ellsbury has marginally better projections and is probably a better corner defender.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Varitek Catches

while Martinez at first(because Martinez is a horrible catcher)

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Everyone says this

and I don’t buy it. Piazza was a horrible catcher, and he is not Mike Piazza, he is not even CLOSE to being that bad. He’s a better catcher than Russell Martin and you don’t see the Dodgers looking to move Martin out of there, do you?

Cleveland got him out from behind the plate every few days and stuck him at first because they didn’t have a first baseman that was really worth a crap, had a good backup catcher, and got tired of having their best hitter getting beat up late in the season all the time. If Boston was smart they’d just DH him or put him at 1B every fifth day and let Varitek be the backup — their club will be much better offensively with Varitek’s putrid bat out of the lineup.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Always a good sign when your captain

rides the pine…

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 15, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

If he's a true "captain"

he’ll do what is best for the team. Which is sit his ass on the bench and be a glorified coach.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 15, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Hermida was never...

good enough to crack the Boston outfield as a starter. He’d be a good platoon guy.

I think the Red Sox should sign Cameron, find a partner for Hermida, and then trade Ellsbury, Buchholz + more for Adrian Gonzalez. Then slide the Greek over to third.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

In any case...

I think it’s apparent they don’t want Bay or Holliday.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Tears?

Has any bigger ticket Boras clients signed this off-season yet? If indeed none of the big fish (Yanks, BoSox, Dodgers, and LA) are interested in Holliday, then it’s gotta us, right?

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Dec 14, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

you're probably right anyways

he sold his soul a long time ago.

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

the Yanks & Angels are still in play, i don't care what artie says

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Angels have matsui

Now if we don’t get Holliday, anyone want Juan Rivera?

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

allegedly, he may be going to the braves for derek lowe.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

he's what we need though

+defender in left with 25HR power

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

he's a DH only now

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

And the Phils...

are extending Halladay for 3/60. Nicely done, Ruben.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 7:21 PM EST reply actions  

you have to be kidding...

what an awesome contract for the phillies.

it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie

by SleepyCA on Dec 14, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

horrible that halladay would sign only three years

his market won’t be any stronger as a 33YO ace.

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

At least he gets paid and has a chance to compete

Both are improvements over his current situation, even if they’re not best case scenarios.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Dec 14, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

it's still a dumb move financially

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

it looks like it has options for 2 extra years

5 yrs and a possible 100 M is dumb?

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

when he can get 180+ from the sawx, dodgers or Yanks? yes it's dumb

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe he just isn't a greedy bastard

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

There are benefits for Halladay...

he eliminates the injury risk in 2010, he escapes Toronto, he goes to a contender.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

It'd take way too long to hammer out

But if I were him I’d be game for 3/60………but then it’s a conditional 2 year/46M mutual option after that (Sabathia money). If less than 175 IP in year 3 or less than 450 overall it becomes a team option. If he hits 600 innings in the three years it becomes a straight player option. 450-600 + >175 in year 3, it’s a mutual option.

Phils get protection for Halladay injuring himself, Halladay gets 60M guaranteed/the choice to earn top dollars or be a FA if he’s healthy.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe it has vesting options for both a 4th and 5th year at the same AAV though

Still a good contract, but it kinda depends on when those options vest.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

woo woo

sox talking with cameron

that would def put them out of the holliday sweepstakes

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions  

Boras is Damon's agent.

I guess, technically, Damon could fire Boras and sign, but otherwise I can’t imagine anything happening with him until H is off the table. Boras needs the perceived threat of the yankees bidding on H to drive up the price.

it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie

by SleepyCA on Dec 14, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I know we all think Boras is sleazy, but that would be incredibly low.

And I think it would hurt his chances of signing new clients. What agent would prevent a client from signing to get someone else a higher contract?

(Insert Your Own Joke)

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

well, there's definitely a conflict of interest

the richest team in baseball needs a LF, and Boras represents two LF’s…

(3 if you count ankiel.)

it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie

by SleepyCA on Dec 14, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That may be true, but I have to believe when other players see this presumed

preventing of progress in Damon’s contract talks, that they would be less likely to sign with Boras. Unless you are the absolute best player at your position Boras would have set a precedent where you are nothing more than bait. Would you sign with him if these allegations were true?

(Insert Your Own Joke)

by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 14, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

that is the question

and the second question is, how would you ever really know?

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Dec 14, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Happ and Blanton

took physicals and could be involved in the Phils’ deal. HFS, 3/5 of your rotation for one guy??

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 7:59 PM EST reply actions  

thats according to

reports linked on mlbtraderumors

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

holy shit

i hope that’s the trade. love to see the phillies should themselves in the foot

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

shoot*

also

Drabek and “other top [Phillies] prospects” will be involved in the deal, according to Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com (via Twitter). According to Salisbury, Brown will remain with the club.

!!!

they traded half their team!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

this tidbit too
Chase Utley is rumored to be part of the deal

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

nah, i just playin!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on pj

Sell it!

You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?

by jd is legend on Dec 14, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

it could still happen

they don’t appear to be done yet

the official body count sits at happ, lee, drabek and blanton

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Halladay

but that is just plain HFS BSI…!!!

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

ha!

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see how they are shooting themselves in the foot at all

by acquiring Roy Halladay and then extending him for 3-5 seasons beyond his current contract. Dude has never pitched outside of the AL East — how much do you think he’s going to dominate the NL East. If I’m the Mets and Braves I’m scared shitless that this deal is going down without them giving up a single major league player or a prospect that would probably even play for them in the next couple of years.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

cliff lee?

ja happ?

joe blanton?

all mlb players

and drabek is right on the doorstep

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I refuse to believe that those are the players involved.

Why would they need the M’s if they were moving Blanton AND Drabek AND their best prospect in AAA? It’s bullshit. It’ll end up being Happ, Drabek, and the catcher, in which case they keep Lee for at least next year, or it’s Lee to the M’s and their AAA OF prospect and the Catcher to the Jays, with the M’s kicking in a couple of players to the A’s as well.

I see no fucking way they are giving Lee, Happ, Blanton, and Drabek in the same deal — they could have gotten Halladay for less than that at the deadline, and his price has dropped even further now with Boston signing Lackey.

At this point, they could send Drabek, Happ, and the catcher to the Jays for Halladay straight up.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree

just going by what is being reported.

lee for halladay straight up is probably not a deal i would make

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I think they’re leveraging Lee into keeping their farm system from being completely drained while going after Halladay, knowing full well they can’t sign both of them long term.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 15, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

so wait, Lee, Happ, Blanton + their best prospects for Roy?

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

gotta keep beating that dead horse

i’ve got nothing else to bring to the table

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Anytime anything Super Troopers is posted

I rec… good job sir.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 15, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Cameron to the BoSox is official...

we gotta be able to land Bay or Holliday, if we want to go that route.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 9:00 PM EST reply actions  

Mariners are in on Bay

Who’s in on Holliday these days? Guess the Yankees are still players.

by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

This can't hurt

I bet Boras is just messing up his own Damon – Yankee negotiations. If you are Damon what point do you question your agent

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

I wonder if agents that scoop Boras have their own little Icky Shuffle they do in their hotel rooms. Cameron slides in under the radar, to a perennial contender. “Way to go team, cigars all around!”

I’m kind of torn, since I’m skeptical of Holliday anyway, and would rather see a pick than the gamble on what will be a monster contract for him.

by siddfynch on Dec 14, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

2/16 for Cameron...

there’s seems to be an enormous gulf developing between “superstars” and guys who are a notch below.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

i would've loved that price tag

my hang up was the presumed $10MM/yr it would’ve taken

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

I’d rather have that + another pitcher + a LH bat instead of holliday.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

interesting.
@JoeStrauss Movement on the Holliday front.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 9:05 PM EST reply actions  

more teasers

f’in strauss

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 14, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I meant to unfollow last night.

Forgot, dammit.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

me too, I am going to do it right now

I am a masochist, but this is rediculous.

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

what is your twitter account?

I’d like to follow other VEBers than just AZ, Spants and DanUp (you guys are boring).

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I used to tweet a lot.

I’m over it.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

ouch

mid-tween=12ish I believe, last I checked I wasn’t 12. Maybe it’s the fact I was tired using a system that no-one really read.

I am the Batman

by CodyG on Dec 14, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

we agreed you were 15

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

It looks just like it!!!

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

mines better

ah fuck it. never mind, i don’t want to anger the robot again

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

mazel tov

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

My dial-up is compuserve, and I use Mosaic 1.0 for my web browser.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm just old enough to know what those are

Well, I remember Compuserve and Prodigy. I don’t know what Mosaic is though. Apparently it’s kind of an ancestor (in a way) of Netscape and Mozilla, which makes sense. Is that accurate?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

what the? I thought I had tracked down all VEBers

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

mine is the same as here

but be prepared to be disappointed. I still have not mastered the tweetering, so I basically just have it to get news…and laugh

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Also,
@boxcar_fritz 140 characters exactly. Suck it twitter!

It’s called a twoosh.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Dec 14, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

is that a twittered BOOSH! ?

I love a good BOOSH!

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

it has a name?

I like it so much less now.

by DanUpBaby on Dec 15, 2009 4:16 AM EST up reply actions  

fuck, I unfollow Strauss

and 10 minutes later Twiiter puts him as one of those annoying pop-in tweets on my home page.

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah he's all of my feed now

and I never even followed the ass clown. Pull you head out of your ass, twitter!

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he ended up traded to the Mariners somehow.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

He and Mrs Krabapple were in the closet

and they were making babies and one of the babies looked at me.

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions   5 recs

Classic

That’s an automatic rec. You people know what I come here for don’t you.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

they taste like...burning!

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

the Mariners also got the Phillie Phanatic in the deal

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Seattle!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

oh fuck, wrong meme

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

this probably just means that joe straus took a crap.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I'll go with a front loaded

8 year – $80M contract for him. :)

by stlfan on Dec 14, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

that

8/110 is looking more realistic if the yankees aren’t in this. he’ll have to take what he can get

really, if it’s 8 years and <15MM per, sign me up

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

soriano is making 18MM

13.75 is sweeter. and soriano is no holliday

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

well, to hear boras tell it

teixeira is the basis for 8 year deals. holliday will not get soriano money, though. not a chance. not with the sox, angels and mets out of it

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I know he won;t get Fonzi money

but he’ll still be (almost certainly) massively overpaid in years 6-8.

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

you mean

he’ll be overpaid the last couple years of his contract? that might be likely. i’m just not sure it’s going to take some absurd contract to land him anymore

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i've said all along i wouldn't go any higher than that

if i’m proved right, i’ll be impossible to live with

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

luckily that is not a problem!

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Luckily that is already the case

so we’re already used to it.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 12:50 AM EST up reply actions  

proving you right

would entail you saying “holliday will sign for $15 per”

/pedantic

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, just go with it to humor me

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

as opposed to?

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 15, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

just f'ing humor me gotdamnit!

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 15, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

f'in strauss

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Fuck You
@JoeStrauss I would never tell you to stay up to midnite again. But it wouldn’t be a bad idea. #stlcards

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

if I stay up til midnight

and the only thing that happens is Matt Holliday taking a crap on Strauss’ lawn, I am not gonna be a happy camper

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That would kinda crack my shit up

c’mon…everyone else…you’d laugh, too!

by stlfan on Dec 14, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

that’d be awesome

and then we could get a whiny snarkicle from straussie about it

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i would stay up till midnight to hear about someone crapping on strauss's lawn.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

well if I stay up til midnight

and Holliday is not signed, or doesn’t crap on Strauss’ lawn, I say we all have a roadtrip to Strauss’ house

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions   4 recs

i'll drive, you bring the bourbon

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Leave the gun.

Take the cannoli.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Mikey, when a you gonna tell that girl you love her?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 15, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

hahahaha

rec for you

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Well that's just tough twitters then.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 14, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i hope cgirly doesn't read this

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

she hasn't been around lately

maybe she’s mourning corbin’s baby?

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

i probably scared another one off

f’in gdm indeed

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't she around the finals part of the year?

Maybe she’s attempting to pass classes? Sellout.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 15, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm in the Smoky Mountains with my mom.

She gets mad when I am on here all the time when I’m at home so I probably won’t be around as much for a couple of weeks.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Dec 15, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Spending time with your family...

sellout

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 15, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

6ly, VEB comes before anything & everyone

unless they are a smokin hottie

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 15, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

no work tomorrow

so i’ll do it

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

right after
Cardinals jumped the gun. To be announced tomorrow.

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm going to smack a biatch if someone is f'ing around

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

because this isn't funny, but he likes to f with us

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

good question

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

all i can gather

is negative connotations

went ahead and committed money before cameron signed when they could have gotten him for less? or told him to take a hike before cameron signed which brings the price down?

well, if the first were true, i doubt it’s strauss breaking the news of the holliday signing and even if so, why wait til midnight to announce the biggest signing of the offseason. the second doesn’t make any sense based on the “positive movement” statement

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not exactly Twitter savvy

but after poking around a bit it looked to me like it was in reference to this

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards

by madding on Dec 14, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Before clicking this link

There’s no way this ends well.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

....unless there's pictures....

…..or Tiger Woods was somehow involved.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of Twitter and People hated by Cardinals fans:

keithlaw
Cardinals. RT @jdondlinger @keithlaw If the offseason ended today, who would you pick to win the NL Central?

by Mister Eff on Dec 14, 2009 9:48 PM EST reply actions  

Stab his eyes out -- some guy in central Missouri already went after his address!!!

Wait. . . that sounds like a positive comment.

To Jeff Passan’s house!!! Grab the torches!!!

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

ha

it was ashland

i used to live <10 min from there

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

he's also a corbin raffle lover

@keithlaw Rasmus by a lot. @RF85 @keithlaw long term, who do you have: maybin or colby rasmus? and is it a close call? thx for any input.

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to engage in outlandish trade scenarios...

but if the Cards sold high on Carpenter and brought back, say, Joe Saunders, Brandon Wood, Mike Trout, plus another prospect, would that be so terrible?

The Angels have to be absolutely desperate at this point and It’s not really optimal for us to have the whole season rest on Carp’s right arm.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 10:13 PM EST reply actions  

i would be okay

with moving carp for the right price

don’t know anything about any of those guys, though

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

a brief look at their stats

says that is not the right price

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I listened to Sports Radio today in LA

(Something I normally avoid, but so much happened today I thought i might as well)

The talking heads here are incredibly down on Brandon Wood. Since the local fans that see him in AAA and MLB have probably seen him more than we, it makes me wonder: Why the obsession? I assume that Angels ownership likes him more than the average fan, but people seem pretty pissed that Figgins is gone and don’t think Wood will be able to come close to filling his shoes.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Dec 14, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I would dump Carp in a heartbeat

right now. Hated the extension at the time and am still very wary of it.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

It's getting to be moveable...

2 years and, what, $30 million. I could see the Angels being interested given their loses and the Mariners’ gains.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Dec 14, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

2/29.5M + 15 option/1M buyout

I think that’s about fair. He’s a healthy 5 Win pitcher healthy……..if people are clamoring for Rich Harden at 8M or whatever, Carpenter at 15 is a steal.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Dec 14, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope for the sake of your face

that Carpenter doesn’t read this.

Carp is a franchise type. I would cry if he left. And everyone would be tipping pitches EVERYWHERE.

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Dec 14, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

and i would cry if he spent 1.9 years on the dl again. i want him to be our pitching coach and i want ‘05/’09 carp every year, but he and his arm are a liability

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

it's not his arm that's the problem, it's the nerves in his back & shoulder

if that stops firing again, we’re f’ed

Every morning I wake up & smoke a dart. Then I eat five strips of bacon, & for lunch I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack? Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. And I'm still here! Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me.

by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

depends on when we're talking

Carp next year I wouldn’t move for anything
Carp on the year Adam Wainwright signs with us for life… uh yeah.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Dec 14, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd move Carp in a heartbeat for Saunders + Wood

The payroll flexibility alone would be great – we could probably add ben sheets, a closer AND still look at one of the bigger ticket OF options, as well as having Saunders, who’s probably a decent #3/4 starter on a contending team, and Wood, who’d be a good fit at 3B.

Still, I can’t see them giving up on Wood, given they let Figgins go to (presumably) open up 3B for him (unless, of course, they’re in on Beltre, which I doubt).

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Mike Cameron at 15.5 over 2 years?

I wish these free agents would stop helping the big payroll teams. They don’t need more of a financial advantage.

Link

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2009 10:21 PM EST reply actions  

yeah

what a bargain

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Start posting about the Cardinals »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

100_0005_small
Mistakes I Made
Doctort_small
West and f/x

Recent FanPosts

Taylor-halloween_2007_small
Albert Pujols says Cardinals need to find a way to get Colby Rasmus "out of here"
Small
The Next Cardinal Manager
Small
Time to Face Facts - Pujols will not re-sign with the Cards
Stlcards_small
American Federation Baseball League (OOTP 11) looking for founding owners
Pujols_small
The Bell Tolls for thee -- 2010 St. Louis Cardinals
Ankiel_vs_drew_small
Cards versus Nats: anybody going? Because I am.
Colevatar_small
Thank You, Cards Fans
Small
Poem after the Reds/Cards brawl

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Texas Rangers Michael Young, left, is held back by Texas Rangers third base coach Dave Anderson (obscured) after being called out at third by third base umpire Alfonso Marquez, front right, to end a baseball game against the Minnesota Twins, Sunday, Sept. 5, 2010, in Minneapolis.  Rangers manager Ron Washington (wearing sunglasses) looks on. The Twins won 6-5. (AP Photo/Paul Battaglia) +1 updates

Twins Top Rangers 6-5 Thanks To Controversial Ump Decision

LOS ANGELES CA - SEPTEMBER 04:  Jamey Carroll #14 of the Los Angeles Dodgers is pulled off the bag as Darren Ford #34 of the San Francisco Giants steals second base in the eighth inning at Dodger Stadium on September 4 2010 in Los Angeles California. The Giants defeated the Dodgers 5-4.  (Photo by Jeff Gross/Getty Images) +1 updates

Dodgers' Slide Continues With 3-0 Loss To Rival Giants

BOSTON - SEPTEMBER 05: Jonathan Papelbon #58 of the Boston Red Sox heads for the dugout after he is pulled in the ninth inning against the Chicago White Sox on September 5 2010 at Fenway Park in Boston Massachusetts.  (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)

White Sox Score Four In 9th, Hand Jonathan Papelbon His Seventh Blown Save Of 2010

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Jack_benny_small DanUpBaby

Editors

Images_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols