The Holliday Dilemma (Rocks Fan Perpsective)
To preface my remarks, I am a Rockies Fan that used to be a Card fan. Grew up following the Cards of the 60s,70s,80s and moved to Denver in the lkate 80's and started rooting for the Rocks upon their inception. I root for the Cards in a secondary fashion. As a Rockies fan I was troubled by the loot St. Louis gave to get him last summer. As a Rocks fan I was aware of the Holliday fielding defiencies, and inability to hit middle-in pitches consistently. The bigger issue was his hiring of Scott Boras in 2006. A clear sign he intended to test the market in 2009. Rocks gave him a raise to buy out his remaining arbitration years at a premium following 2007. But it was obvious he was going to market. They dealt him and got some pretty good MLB ready guys who helped in 2009. CarGo will likely surpass Holliday as he is a legit 5 tool kid poised for stardom. You may want to nab him for your fantasy leagues next year. The A's got Holliday basically to try to turn him for some good talent. They figured someone would be ready to bite in mid season. Billy Beane is many things and among them an opportunist. The Cards unloaded some significant jack for a three month player. The Yankees, Mets, Dodgers and a few other teams can afford to do this, the Cards cannot. Now you are stuck looking for the same thing you were three months ago (Albert protection with production). Holliday turned down 4 years and 80M from the Rocks. Do you think he will settle for less? Not under Boras' watch. He wants a shot at the Red Sox and the Yanks figuring that each may have LF holes where Holliday will fit the bill. I read in the STL Today site where many Card fans want to focus on rebuilding from within. Given a mid market status, it basically the only way you can go. I used to pound Dan O'Dowd for his moves where they all seemed like salary dumps (see 2000-2005). A couple of years ago (2006) I began to see his logic and he has made the Rocks into an NL version of the Twins. As a kid growing up the Cardinals always focused their energies on their player development with a few deals splashed in for good measure. I think they have sort of lost that feeling but it is never too late to get it back. Having two large salaries can hamstring you for years to come. Look at Houston, the Cubs, etc. My only sadness is the three prospects that got away for the failed experiement. A few years ago the Rockies management had a press conference where they profoundly declared that "we know what we are" we will manage our team with that in mind. This offseason they will deal Brad Hawpe, non-tender Garrett Atkins, let Torrealba go, resign some bullpen help and be in a better position to contend in 2010. I am thinking the Cards need to do some of their own internal mirror obeservation. You can no longer afford to dump prospects on short term fliers.
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Cards Acquire Matt Holliday… (I can’t bring myself to type the bounty surrendered.)
Its Overflow Thread
I’d say 90% of the VEB community knows that we can no longer afford to dump prospects on short-term fliers. However, lamenting the deal soon gave way to enjoying it while it lasts, which, of course, abruptly and cruelly ended with a routine pop up to the groin.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
aw, nuts.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 9, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
nice post
although Brett Wallace still has to prove himself, I’m guessing the Cards are the losers in this deal. at least they had a shot at the playoffs, but I think they could have made it without Holliday given the Cubs bad season. doh
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 9, 2009 12:31 PM EST reply actions
We'll find out soon enough
I though I read somewhere Wallace is getting his shot this ST, i don’t see the depth at 3rd for anyone else really to be in that spot right now in their org, but they could always promote someone over the top of him.
by from First to Third on Nov 9, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
yes, the Cards are the losers
They gave up a lot of future for a short-term in Holliday, and the Mark Mulder trade is another good example. Maybe Mo should’ve taken better notes before becoming GM…
Best moment I've ever seen at a game in person
"If it was Zoom Zoom'd, we'd be doom doom'd" - making fun of myself for my bad luck streak in the 2009 season
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
well
we are not sure yet that Wallace is going to be a huge loss… but he probably will be
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 10, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
wallace didn't have a position
on the cardinals. 1B is taken and DH doesn’t exist.
Matthew, Mark, Lugo, and John.
unless
they underestimated his ability to play 3B. guess we’ll find out next year.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Do the A's have both 1b and dh filled?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
they have plenty of those types
but a hole at third unless chavez is touched by the hand of pujols, so are apparently giving wallace a go at third, which would be irresponsible not to try since he is much more valuable if he can handle third.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by former card prospects, perhaps.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
can't you read man??
j/k
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 11, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
+1
couldn’t get past about the 4th or 5th line. Probably good stuff, but who knows?
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
I must have good tracking sensors
I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 12, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Somebody is bitter at Holliday
“Holliday turned down 4 years and 80M from the Rocks. Do you think he will settle for less? Not under Boras’ watch.”
PinchHitLancePainter, I understand the venom at the Holliday / Boras hookup but Boras doesn’t have Jedi mind control over the GMs (at least I don’t think he does). I personally will not hate on Holliday for going to free agency and seeing what is out there. Further, two factors are significantly hurting Holliday’s market: (a) he sucked in Oakland and (b) the economic fundamentals of the economy have significantly changed. Holliday / Boras might not want to settle for a contract under $100m … but it is really starting to look like that is where the market for Holliday is heading. I’d be shocked if Holliday landed mark teixeira money.
So to answer your question, Boras is going to bitch and moan and hold out forever but IMHO Holliday’s best offer is going to be a five year deal in the $90m range … meaning less per year than the Rockies offered him. His options will be to sign that deal or take a one year deal from an NL team to try and rebuild his market value so he try again in free agency in 2011. Which of those options do you think Matt Holliday will choose regardless of the entreaties of Boras?
BTW, I like the deal the Rocks made to unload Holliday and think they have the team headed in the right direction. Jim Tracy was the right guy for the job.
he still has the bees on his side
j/k
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

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