Jack Morris and (Matt Morris and Matt Morris)

by DanUpBaby on Nov 30, 2009 2:56 AM EST Comment 211 comments

I'll hand it to baseball for this: It does its best to drag the news cycle, which at this point is neither kicking nor screaming nor breathing, all the way into December, when the trade and free agent markets give it a lift. Friday the Hall of Fame ballots were announced, warming the cockles of sportswriters everywhere. There have been interesting ballots and there have been Chinese-curse interesting ballots, but try as I might, there is almost no Cardinals news to wring out of them, save for the return, from storage, of labored, indignant paragraphs about Mark McGwire's Hall of Fame candidacy.

But baseball news is baseball news, at this point, right? And discussion is discussion. So in the grand tradition of blogging, I'd like to show you this weird thing I found: Jack Morris, apparently inevitable Hall of Fame mistake, vs. two Matt Morrises stacked on top of each other. (This is more interesting, I assure you, than Lee Smith vs. two Bud Smiths stacked on top of each other, although height-wise that would be much closer.)

I hate to rehash the Jack Morris non-debate; he is a Hall of Very Good pitcher with one really awesome playoff moment, and at this point either that does something for you or it doesn't. But how eerie is this:

Jack Morris

Year	W	L	ERA	G	GS	IP	H	ER	HR	BB	SO	ERA+	H/9	HR/9	BB/9	SO/9	SO/BB
1977	1	1	3.74	7	6	45.2	38	19	4	23	28	114	7.5	0.8	4.5	5.5	1.22
1978	3	5	4.33	28	7	106.0	107	51	8	49	48	90	9.1	0.7	4.2	4.1	0.98
1979	17	7	3.28	27	27	197.2	179	72	19	59	113	133	8.2	0.9	2.7	5.1	1.92
1980	16	15	4.18	36	36	250.0	252	116	20	87	112	99	9.1	0.7	3.1	4.0	1.29
1981	14	7	3.05	25	25	198.0	153	67	14	78	97	124	7.0	0.6	3.5	4.4	1.24
1982	17	16	4.06	37	37	266.1	247	120	37	96	135	100	8.3	1.3	3.2	4.6	1.41
1983	20	13	3.34	37	37	293.2	257	109	30	83	232	117	7.9	0.9	2.5	7.1	2.80
1984	19	11	3.60	35	35	240.1	221	96	20	87	148	109	8.3	0.7	3.3	5.5	1.70
1985	16	11	3.33	35	35	257.0	212	95	21	110	191	122	7.4	0.7	3.9	6.7	1.74
1986	21	8	3.27	35	35	267.0	229	97	40	82	223	127	7.7	1.3	2.8	7.5	2.72
1987	18	11	3.38	34	34	266.0	227	100	39	93	208	126	7.7	1.3	3.1	7.0	2.24
1988	15	13	3.94	34	34	235.0	225	103	20	83	168	98	8.6	0.8	3.2	6.4	2.02
1989	6	14	4.86	24	24	170.1	189	92	23	59	115	79	10.0	1.2	3.1	6.1	1.95
1990	15	18	4.51	36	36	249.2	231	125	26	97	162	89	8.3	0.9	3.5	5.8	1.67
1991	18	12	3.43	35	35	246.2	226	94	18	92	163	124	8.2	0.7	3.4	5.9	1.77
1992	21	6	4.04	34	34	240.2	222	108	18	80	132	102	8.3	0.7	3.0	4.9	1.65
1993	7	12	6.19	27	27	152.2	189	105	18	65	103	70	11.1	1.1	3.8	6.1	1.58
1994	10	6	5.60	23	23	141.1	163	88	14	67	100	83	10.4	0.9	4.3	6.4	1.49
18 Seasons	254	186	3.90	549	527	3824.0	3567	1657	389	1390	2478	105	8.4	0.9	3.3	5.8	1.78

Matt Matt Morris Morris

Year	W	L	ERA	G	GS	IP	H	ER	HR	BB	SO	ERA+	HR/9	BB/9	SO/9	SO/BB
2008	0	4	9.67	5	5	22.1	41	24	6	7	9	44	2.4	2.8	3.6	1.29
2000	3	3	3.57	31	0	53	53	21	3	17	34	131	0.5	2.9	5.8	2
1997	12	9	3.19	33	33	217	208	77	12	69	149	130	0.5	2.9	6.2	2.16
2002	17	9	3.42	32	32	210.1	210	80	16	64	171	117	0.7	2.7	7.3	2.67
1998	7	5	2.53	17	17	113.2	101	32	8	42	79	167	0.6	3.3	6.3	1.88
2001	22	8	3.16	34	34	216.1	218	76	13	54	185	137	0.5	2.2	7.7	3.43
2002	17	9	3.42	32	32	210.1	210	80	16	64	171	117	0.7	2.7	7.3	2.67
2005	14	10	4.11	31	31	192.2	209	88	22	37	117	103	1	1.7	5.5	3.16
2005	14	10	4.11	31	31	192.2	209	88	22	37	117	103	1	1.7	5.5	3.16
2001	22	8	3.16	34	34	216.1	218	76	13	54	185	137	0.5	2.2	7.7	3.43
2004	15	10	4.72	32	32	202	205	106	35	56	131	90	1.6	2.5	5.8	2.34
2004	15	10	4.72	32	32	202	205	106	35	56	131	90	1.6	2.5	5.8	2.34
1997	12	9	3.19	33	33	217	208	77	12	69	149	130	0.5	2.9	6.2	2.16
2003	11	8	3.76	27	27	172.1	164	72	20	39	120	109	1	2	6.3	3.08
2006	10	15	4.98	33	33	207.2	218	115	22	63	117	90	1	2.7	5.1	1.86
2007	10	11	4.89	32	32	198.2	240	108	18	61	102	91	0.8	2.8	4.6	1.67
1998	7	5	2.53	17	17	113.2	101	32	8	42	79	167	0.6	3.3	6.3	1.88
2003	11	8	3.76	27	27	172.1	164	72	20	39	120	109	1	2	6.3	3.08
2006	10	15	4.98	33	33	207.2	218	115	22	63	117	90	1	2.7	5.1	1.86
2007	10	11	4.89	32	32	198.2	240	108	18	61	102	91	0.8	2.8	4.6	1.67
2000	3	3	3.57	31	0	53	53	21	3	17	34	131	0.5	2.9	5.8	2
2008	0	4	9.67	5	5	22.1	41	24	6	7	9	44	2.4	2.8	3.6	1.29
22 Seasons	242	184	3.98	614	552	3612	3734	1598	350	1018	2428	107	0.9	2.5	6	2.39

Matty-Matty-Mo becomes Jack Morris's most similar player by a significant margin, somewhere in the 920s. The only real differences between these guys is Our Morris's substantial control advantage and Other Morris's famous complete games. I liked Matt Morris a lot, and there are scenarios in which he could have been a Hall of Fame-caliber pitcher; he came up young and was immediately excellent, and if he doesn't lose two years in the late-90s and his fastball sometime in the middle of 2003 he might be the poor man's Mike Mussina.

But the version of Matt Morris we got is not very suitable for Hall of Fame cloning. He's got three all-star-type seasons, one of which might have won the Cy Young in a weaker year, some solid fragmented seasons, and four years of bulk pitching. It's a few years of the Matt Morris we'll all remember appended hastily to the career of Kyle Lohse. These are not pieces you can make into a Hall of Fame pitcher, but they're exactly what Jack Morris has, along with a reputation for tenacity, a habit of completing games, and two heroic World Series performances out of three.

Aside from the continuing Jack Morris sideshow there's the interesting case of Roberto Alomar, who has an outside shot at being the latest second baseman summarily dumped from Hall of Fame consideration after a year or two. Alomar created 57 more runs than future Jack Morris Andre Dawson despite accruing 300 fewer plate appearances; he played second base well enough to secure the Gold Glove sinecure into his dotage.

But his incredibly abrupt, inescapable decline—in 2001 he managed, by one point, his career high OPS; in 2002 he managed, by one point, his career low OPS—has damaged the perception of him more than any other case I can remember. 2001 seemed to be his Hall of Fame coronation, but his halo seemed gone by that next May. By the time he was bouncing back and forth from the White Sox his awesome peak was ancient history; when the ballot came out I was surprised to see him on it.

We're used to seeing pitchers nosedive without warning—look at Jack Morris's last two seasons. But Alomar's brilliant peak, one of the best of the nineties, was obliterated in three seasons as Kaz Matsui. Chase Utley had better get out the minute he loses a step.

0 recs | Comment 211 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Since I have nothing better to do

I’m going to claim this initial post as my own… now you may want me to post something with a fist or that rhymes with first but Not ganna do it

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 30, 2009 5:00 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

OT, Favre dissed?

I find it repugnant and unbelievable that the TV production of the Vikings/Bears football game yesterday included only 17 camera close-ups of Brett Favre.
Here’s a man who is the greatest football quarterback of all football time, and the football production managed only 17 football sideline and football idle moments shots of Favre.
In a three hour football production, allowing one every five football minutes (surely modest considering Favre’s football prowess) that would football equate to a minimum of 36 spotlight moments.
Only 17. Sheesh!

by the Tewk on Nov 30, 2009 6:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Apparently, all one has to do to win the closeup war is to not play

Roethlisberger must’ve had somewhere between 50 and 87973767878342789-hundred closeups during last night’s game (and why was he in pads if he wasn’t medically cleared to play). Meanwhile, I still don’t know what Dennis Dixon looks like.

by brackenthebox on Nov 30, 2009 7:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why was Dr. Foreman pacing around on the Pittsburgh sideline?

I’m pretty sure House wanted him to prep for a spinal tap or something.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Surprisingly similar

Tomin

Foreman

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

by vexedtechie on Nov 30, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I figured I wasn't the only one who saw this.

I was worried though, because Omar Epps and people who resemble Omar Epps all look alike to me.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How did I miss this?

Perhaps it is because Tomlin wears a ballcap and/or aviators on the sidelines…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 30, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's because

he’s not wearing a stethoscope on the sidelines.

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But I thought...

he got shot at the end of the movie?

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Roethlisberger was to play "only in the event of an emergency"

Meaning that he would be in if Dixon and Palko went down…which wasnt going to happen because they were taking ZERO chances with Dixon…sigh

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 30, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just trying to imagine that conversation with the doctor

Doctor: You’re not medically cleared to play; you could seriously injure yourself by taking the wrong hit
Ben: What if the two QBs ahead of me get injured?
Doctor: Oh, well then it’s fine.
Ben: Cool.

by brackenthebox on Nov 30, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair,

that’s really not any more closeups than we got of Joe Flacco and Dennis Dixon (and Ben Roethlesberger, who didn’t even PLAY) in the Sunday Night game last night, and we probably get twice that many when Tom Brady plays because of his high Q rating with the ladies. Also, there were no camera shots of Deanna Favre, which might be the first time all year that’s happened when she’s been in the building

It’s much easier to show a close up of the QB in football, because he’s the only guy who doesn’t move much in between plays. Running backs have to get up off the ground and move in and out of the game for rests and for different offensive sets, WR run downfield and jog back to the huddle, and offensive lineman always look really, really bored and aren’t that interesting anyway, unless they have a movie made about their life that stars Sandra Bullock (who looks ridiculously hot for a woman in her 40’s by the way). In baseball, the hitter is in the batter’s box, and the position players are always in similar spots on the field, so you can get a close up of just about anyone at any time.

The guy is probably the front runner for the league MVP award at age 40. He might be on his way to the best statistical season of his CAREER at age 40 (he’s never had a season with a rating over 100, and he’s at 112 this year). Say what you want about the drama with him in the offseason, the guy really can play and is playing at a high level at an age when most QB’s are walking duck legged around their houses.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Nov 30, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did they have the "Favre cam" on their website yesterday?

That was what blew me away. You could go to foxsports.com and actually watch only Brett Favre for the entire game. And Fox was promoting this. I didn’t watch much of the game yesterday because I lost interest, so I’m not sure if Fox was promoting this online feature again.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 30, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No

that was just for one game, and the angle was more “Favre against the Packers” for that game because it was his first game back at Lambeau. I think going in that Fox knew it was probably not going to be a competitive game, so you sell it up the best way you can.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Nov 30, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so you're saying he's on the juice?

He might be on his way to the best statistical season of his CAREER at age 40

That’s the only possible explanation for such behavior from what I’ve read

by brackenthebox on Nov 30, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And then there's this guy

link
Played four more years than Jack Morris and has 30 more wins (sorry, I know it’s not the best stat to use, but we’re talking BBWAA here). Didn’t win a Cy Young, but eight of his ten player comps are HOF pitchers.

by gocards62 on Nov 30, 2009 7:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I dont even have to look...

…at the link.

Yes he was a great pitcher. But as you point out this is the BBWAA we are talking about—won/loss record and cy youngs are the most important stats to consider. So 250ish losses and 0 cy youngs does not a hall of famer make.

by BigJawnMize on Nov 30, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty sure any internet discussion of Jack Morris eventually devolves into a Blyleven for HOF campaign.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Nov 30, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's one of those rules of the internet

Also, I think that the first person who brings up the fact that the first person who mentions that the first time Bert Blyleven is argued for etc. etc. Jack Morris discussion [fill in the blank] etc. wins/loses the thread, wins or loses the thread. Etc.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is ridiculous

Blyleven wasn’t a gamer, only Jack Morris was, and I saw him play with me own eyes. He pissed fire and spit vinegar, and he once rode in from the bullpen on a mighty steed and hurled lightning at the opposing manager, causing the entire team to wet themselves and declare a soiled forfeit. His facial hair got more women then club 54, and he taught me how to love a woman. /Plaschke off

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs

And all of this happened in the World Series, which is way more important than Blyleven's entire career!

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's why the greatest players of all time

Are in this order:
Derek Jeter
Jack Morris
Mariano Riveira
Bernie Williams
Reggie Jackson
Mike Mussina
Kirby Puckett
Andy Pettitte
Reggie Jackson’s Moustache
Paul O’Neil
Scott Brosius
Jorge Posada
Chuck Knoblauch
Tino Martinez
Babe Ruth (because what has he done for the Yankees lately?)

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs

Fuck

Brosius must be at least like #3.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 1, 2009 6:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

dan this reminds me

of the Bill James item in which he compared the skills / careers of Willie Wilson to his doppelganger, Mookie Wilson — and Mookie’s real name is William, ie Willie. so, two Willie Wilsons who played the same position and had the same basic attributes.

and then James took it one step further and referenced an Edgar Allen Poe story written in 1839 about a man who is shadowed by an eerie double with the same name, birth date, and attributes. the character’s name (and the name of the story) is “William Wilson.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilson_(short_story)

by lboros on Nov 30, 2009 9:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

And the James article had a dateline of Twin Peaks I hope?

I hope that we shall get an LB post for Christmas this year…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 30, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no Cardinals news?

what do you call this?

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2009/11/25/1174700/todd-zeile-hall-of-fame-fact-sheet

by musial6 on Nov 30, 2009 9:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Also...

one of my childhood heroes is finally ballot-bound, Ray Lankford makes first stop on the HOF ballot this year.

by mynameistyler on Nov 30, 2009 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

my all-time favorite cardinal

defending his skill-set while he was being run out of town was my first brush with OPS and sabermetrics as a whole.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 30, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In my first MLB game...

that I ever had the chance to see in person (one of only two, mind you), Ray Lankford CUHRUSHED a HR into deep left field in the bottom of the 1st inning. Easily one of the most memorable moments of my life.

by mynameistyler on Nov 30, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

technical difficulties

new readers may notice that I have just broken the site, somehow, in mid-edit. If someone has an open copy of the original version of this post, before the page editor choked on a table tag, I would appreciate a copy+paste. Thanks.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 30, 2009 9:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

broken site

Your html code for the two tables above is the problem. One our both of the tables were not closed with .

by jjray on Nov 30, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

crises averted

table being rebuilt, text grabbed from thankfully slow RSS feed.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 30, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My all-time favorite baseball player

Mo, you can trade anything of mine.

by njnick on Nov 30, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jason LaRue re-signed

Cardinals twitter feed announced that they are bringing back LaRue. Bat Gagnozzi weeps silently.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Nov 30, 2009 10:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

And there was much rejoicing

I had a feeling this would happen. The Cards can be stupid, but not stupid enough to put Pagnozzi at the plate 100-some times.

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh.

Now, I have to watch Bat Gagnozzi swing his namesake in AAA for another season.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 30, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like this nickname

Was this introduced recently? Did you just coin it?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We have Red Baron to thank.

It’s a fantastic nickname.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Nov 30, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know spants, it really is

It is perfectly descriptive in a way that is instantly recognizable.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The greatest ideas are usually the simplest.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 30, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I never thought that I would be happy about resigning Stache LaRue

but in the limited time I saw Bat Gagnozzi I realized that resigning a crappy backup catcher can actually be cause for celebration.

"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.

by indakind on Nov 30, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LaRue is still better than Chris Widger or Einar Diaz!

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 30, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What was the salary number?

Was it reported?

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Nov 30, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No details yet.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Nov 30, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WAG - between $1m and $1.5m.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Nov 30, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you think he'll get a raise?

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Nov 30, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

depends on if Carp had... a word with the front office.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

BFF wins again.

Bring on the man stew.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Nov 30, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Meh.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Nov 30, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

here i am blaming tom s. for this:

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/11/15/1158523/2010-hot-stove-post-1-chone-hitter#26352935

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SBN'd

Maybe this re-signing will clear the way for the promotional ‘LaRue Manchu day’, allowing baseball fans of all ages to don a Fu Manchu like their favorite back-up catcher. One can only hope…

Posted by: Aschroed22 | November 30, 2009 at 11:08 AM

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to be "that guy"

but I’ve been trying to keep this straight for a while, so here I go. LaRue wears a horseshoe mustache, not a fu manchu. But something tells me this has been pointed out before on VEB and I just missed it, and that makes me a jerk.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it has been pointed out

I was the one who Got Told. I don’t remember who said it, though.

There was probably documentation. VEB is full of “those guys”.

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

In fact, I may have been this particular “that guy” about this issue and just forgot. The clouded past of VEB holds many mysteries…

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing sucks more than Getting Told

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

there's always your momma.

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OUCH!!!

DING! DING! DING! DING!! Ladies and Gentlemen We have a winner!!

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 30, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jerk.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 1, 2009 6:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I knew it...

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 1, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if my choices are pornstache and bat gagnozzi, and death is not an option, i gladly choose larue.

i accept the blame here, gladly.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Nov 30, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

death is not an option, got it. [writes that down]

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Matt Morris was always on of my Cardinal favorites

On an unrelated note. If we arent able to get Matt Holliday in this years offseason dont you think we should go after glaus on a discount and how about Reed Johnson, he was a 0.3 war player in 65 games and has a .282/.340 carreer line keeping the bases occupied infront of pujols.

by ctowns42 on Nov 30, 2009 10:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

There's been talk of both of these guys around these parts

I keep hearing Glaus is moving to first base, though, in which case he’s not really an option. It’s hard to know what his throwign ability is going forward, though it seemed more or less up to snuff in limited time last year, from what I recall. Reed Johnson is an interesting idea, but I can’t help worrying about how often Tony would find a reason to play him instead of Clobster Razzleton.

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Playing Center

He has primarily been a LF as of late, but as a RH batter who does well against lefties it might not be a bad idea as a spot start every once in a while.

by ctowns42 on Nov 30, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not go after Russell Branyan instead of Glaus?

He’s a similar defender at 3B and will probably be better with the bat at a similar price to what Glaus would probably cost.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Nov 30, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would rather have glaus than branyan

He has been with the team therefore chemistry, has outperformed branyan career wise by about 20 points in avg, obp, and slug. Plus branyan has had more missed time and short seasons than glaus.

by ctowns42 on Nov 30, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Um, who the hell cares about "career averages"?

I’m trying to put the best player at that position next year, and Branyan is probably the best candidate outside of Adrian Beltre. He will cost quite a bit less than Beltre will, imo.

The amount of time they’ve missed in their career is irrelevant to me. Branyan played a full season last year and hit 31 homers. Glaus didn’t play much at all and stunk it up when he did play.

Team chemistry? Please — as Jim Leyland has said “Chemistry is crap — give me the best 9 players and I’ll beat your great chemistry team most of the time.”

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Nov 30, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would love it if Branyan was acquired for reasonable money.

He could be very useful for this team.
Also, I noticed Andruw Jones just signed for 500K with the White Sox, so he’s no longer available, but… am I crazy for thinking he’d be at least worth looking at for LF, hypothetically, in the past? Or would he just be an older Allen Craig at this point?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jones would have been a pretty good LF pickup,

especially for $500k.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Nov 30, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chemistry

And what has Leyland done with those best 9 guys on Tigers lately. Who beat them this year. Was it the twins which isnt a bunch of mercenaries on 1 year deals. Lets not forget when Glaus was playing it was basically his spring training and still looked good in the field. Plus were looking to give freese some time at third. So dont give me one year because I have seen plenty of 1 year blips on a carreer of forgetfullness. Carreer averages are an indication of what to expect and you can pretty much pencil glaus in for .260/.350/.490

by ctowns42 on Nov 30, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Branyan

Branyan also missed all of september with a herniated disk, Rejected a one year deal from the mariners because he wants a multiyear deal. With how weak this years free agent class is dont you want to limit the contract lengths you are giving people.

by ctowns42 on Nov 30, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Except when Glaus needs shoulder surgery.

Glaus is quite a gamble; perhaps one the Cards can’t afford to make.

I think that the Tigers probably have more players with longer contracts than the Twins. Miggy, Inge, Granderson, Ordonez, Polanco, Verlander, Bonderman, Dontrelle…Sure, they have quite a few contracts coming off the books, but I wouldn’t call the Tigers a group of “mercenaries.”

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 30, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tigers as Mercenaries

Not necessarily calling the Tigers Mercenaries but there are teams out there that will do this to win. The Twins have alot of guys that came through the system togethor, role players that just want to do their part to win.

by ctowns42 on Nov 30, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

Someone finally brought me out of VEB hibernation!

Does grit effect homegrown players desire to do their part? What about heart?

check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos

by Dttl89 on Nov 30, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Also...

This may not be a function of chemistry as much as cost controlled players, and two separate teams being at two separate spots in the payroll cycle. Tigers needed just a few pieces to break through (or so they thought) having been good the last couple years. Twins weren’t thinking of contending and kept the core untouched mostly. The fact that they had a good season doesn’t mean one strategy is better than the other mister “career averages” and one season not being an indication….

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Payroll Cycle

Great point. The Tigers have many homegrown players on the roster that all came up at about the same time and all became more expensive at about the same time. After they failed to win the ’06 World Series in a mere three games, they went all Jocketty and targeted Mulders, i.e., that missing piece to put them over the proverbial top.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 30, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The salt.

It burns.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Nov 30, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I see where this is headed

3—-2—-1:

You have to play the game you dorks. I played in HS and was good enough to go to college till a shoulder injury….therefore stats can’t tell you who is going to win.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 30, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They are an indication

but you’re not factoring in age regression and the fact that he’s coming back from a second shoulder surgery. Should we just have expected Scott Rolen to hit his career averages after his shoulder injury and then been pissed off and disappointed when he didn’t? That’s essentially what you’re saying.

I’ll lay 5-1 that Glaus doesn’t even play 3B next season and 2-1 that Branyan has a better offensive season, wherever he plays.

You really think that the difference between the Tigers and Twins was CHEMISTRY? You have to be kidding right? Minnesota’s Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel, Span > Tigers’ Cabrera, Granderson, Rayburn, Ordonez, Polanco. Detroit has the better starting staff, but Minnesota’s bullpen is one of the best in the American League, Detroit’s is one of the worst.

I would venture to say that the bullpen issue alone may have been the difference in the division. If you swap Nathan/Guerrier for Rodney/Lyon I bet Detroit wins the division by 2 or 3 games.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Nov 30, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

glaus at third is dicey

it’s one thing to cut loose a few “showcase” throws to try to salvage something of your contract year; quite another to sustain that over a full season. i think he winds up in the AL.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Nov 30, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe, but i think offering arb is the way to go

offer arb
he signs an incentive laden deal, is ok, and becomes a sign and trade
he doesn’t sign, his offer is chosen by the arbiter, we keep or cut before we owe him much $
more likely to be beneficial than gotay

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Nov 30, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i know it's an option

but has any team ever pulled that “cut him in spring training” to get out of the deal with an established major-leaguer? that route seems like it could have repercussions.

also, if he accepts arb, which he likely would, then why would he sign an incentive-laden deal before the hearing, leaving guaranteed money on the table?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Nov 30, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Gotay cost jack squat.

Glaus in arbitration will cost $8m, at least, most likely.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 1, 2009 6:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

First Cardinal Off-season Movement

Bringin back the stache’

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Nov 30, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

apologies for re-posting the info.

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Nov 30, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It happens to the best of us.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 30, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

better to get something up and not need it, then to need it and not get it up

info that is

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Nov 30, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks yogi

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Nov 30, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why does that read like an Extenze commercial?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 30, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

aflac yogi

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Nov 30, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Derek Jeter -- 2009 Sportsman of the Year

Jimmie Johnson — 4 straight Sprint Cup titles? No
Kobe Bryant wins ring #4 without Shaq? No.
Roger Federer conquers the French Open and wins 3 of 4 majors? No.
Albert Pujols wins his 3rd MVP award and is a great guy off the field? No.

We give it to Jeter, who had a great season for a championship team, but wasn’t as good as other players on his own team. What is the fascination with this guy? Seriously?

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Nov 30, 2009 11:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Recognizing Jeter is long overdue.

He’s the Yankees’ career hits leader!

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 30, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Also the only Yankee to win Sportsman of the Year

which is hard to believe.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Nov 30, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's quite simple

Jeter has The Winning Smile®

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and several colognes for Avon

"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog

"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009

by andi_k on Dec 1, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And he's not A-Rod

Just win

by The Duke on Nov 30, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But do the rest of those guys

Have great smoking jackets? You have to have a classy smoking jacket, or else you are not a true sportsman. I’m surprised it doen’t go to Williamsworth Forsythe Dansmith, the Yachtsman who owns multiple fabulous smoking jackets and vacations in the Hamptons.

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The best smoking jacket I ever saw was in TOYS.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 30, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As with the Gold Glove balloting

He led the world in being named Derek Jeter, and you can’t discount that advantage.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 30, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd bet there's another Derek Jeter out there

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 30, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But he doesn't have nearly as good a publicist

Derek Jeter® gets to keep the crown

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 30, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it

Derek Jeter® or Derek Jeter ©

"Ryan Howard hit behind Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley. If Albert Pujols hit behind Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley, he would have had 493 RBI. Do the math. It checks out." - FJM

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 30, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

or

Derek Jeter™

"Ryan Howard hit behind Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley. If Albert Pujols hit behind Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley, he would have had 493 RBI. Do the math. It checks out." - FJM

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 30, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it was

® but I could be wrong. Seems like he’d like to reserve all his own rights more than copyrighting or trademarking his name.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 30, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The ESPN article was great

Here’s the link.

""It’s one of the greatest honors you can achieve in sports.""

This would be stupid, except that Jeter knows it’s stupid, and he’s just patronizing the media. But they’re too dumb to notice.

"Swimmer Michael Phelps was last year’s recipient."

Michael Phelps, who broke world records repeatedly and just generally owned the entire sport of swimming and captivated the entire country’s attention, nay, the entire globe’s? And this year we’re giving it to the guy who finished third in AL MVP voting, behind one of his own teammates. Oh, okay, cool.

""That’s even harder considering all the great Yankee players that have played for this organization," said Jeter"

As opposed to the great Yankee players that have not played for the Yankees.

"Sports Illustrated Group editor Terry McDonell certainly thinks he has."

Hard to believe, what with this being an award given by Sports Illustrated.

""This verifies my idea that he is on the level of Ruth and Gehrig," McDonell said."

He just equated Derek Jeter to Babe Ruth. Game over, folks. Also, you work for SI. You probably had a vote. How does this verify your personal belief about something that’s totally unrelated? Did Ruth and Gehrig win lots of Sportsman Awards?

"All business between the lines, Jeter has become one of the untarnished ambassadors in the steroids era of baseball through steady play and quiet leadership on and off the field. “He’s so classy,” McDonell said. “He brings a dignity and elegance to the game.”"

He’s so classy, and his eyes shimmer like precious diamonds bequeathed upon humanity by God himself! His pectoral muscles are sculpted from marble, and his girlfriends are all like Helen, with beauty that would drive whole nations to violence! Also, he had a decent defensive year!

"Jeter’s 2009 season was remarkable."

Which is why he finished third in MVP voting? I mean, it was a good year, but Sportsman of the Year good? Did anyone notice Joe Mauer? Unless they mean that it is remarkable in that it is able to be remarked upon. In which case, yeah. I guess.

"He batted .334 with 18 homers and 66 RBIs with 30 steals to help lead the Yankees to their first World Series title in nine years — a frustrating drought for the player who won four championships in his first five seasons."

He helped lead! Along with the rest of his amazing team! He motivated all those awesome players to be awesome! What an accomplishment, to lead this Yankees team to a title! And what a long drought! How frustrated he must have been, unlike so many other guys who never win a World Series in their career! Poor Derek! What a sportsman!

"And as calls swelled for Jeter to switch positions after his contract expires in 2010, the 10-time All-Star went out and had one of his best defensive seasons: He made a career-low eight errors in winning his fourth Gold Glove."

Okay yeah. He had a surprisingly good defensive year. But the gold glove was a farce at best. Nonetheless, it was very sportsmany of him to win it, I suppose.

"He also passed Yankees icon Lou Gehrig’s club record for hits, won the Hank Aaron Award as the AL’s top hitter, and was given the Roberto Clemente Award for excellence on and off the field."

All of which are relevant because the Sportsman Award is given to the sportsman with the most awards and records and stuff? Also, he didn’t win the MVP. Because he wasn’t as good as some other sportsmen who sported better. Like, say, Pujols.

"but what clinched the sportsman award for him was his philanthropic work. Jeter’s Turn 2 Foundation has doled out over $10 million in grants since 1996 to organizations that help keep young people away from alcohol and drugs."

Indeed, just like last year, Michael Phelps won the Sportsman Award because of all his philanthropic work and…wait…what are the criteria for this award again? And there’s a better baseball player who also wins lots of off-the-field awards and does buttloads of charity work, you know. His name is Albert. He won the Roberto Clemente in 2008, and I don’t think he’s become a selfish douchebag since then. Then again, the Cardinals didn’t win the World Series…wait, is this a personal or team award? What the hell kind of award is this, anyway?

Whatever. Sportsman of the Year because of [stat dating back to 1996]!

""It’s about the manner of the striving and the quality of the effort, too," McDonell said. “Off the field he has grown so much as a member of the community.”"

He is a part of the community of…New York. Big community there. Well, it’s a good thing there’s no other players that are a part of their community and have good manner of striving and high quality effort.

"Coming 15 seasons into a career full of honors, the award could be seen as a lifetime achievement, but both McDonell and Jeter dismissed the idea."

They should not have. Because this clearly has little to do with 2009, other than reflecting the Yankees’ World Series title.

"McDonell was impressed by Jeter’s leadership, how he “stepped in and molded a team” this spring with the arrival of three expensive free agents,"

Sounds to me like Cashman should get this award.

"and Alex Rodriguez’s admission to using steroids from 2001-03 and then having hip surgery that kept him out until May."

A-Rod used steroids…uh…yeah, great save, Jeter! Woo! We almost…uh…what was I talking about?

This is the most pointless award ever.

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 22 recs

Rec'd

For the FJM style I’ve been missing for so long.

"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR

by IHeartBoog on Nov 30, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I am not sure that an award given out by YOUR MAGAZINE counts as verification of your opinion.

I could give myself the Lover of the Year award to verify my idea that I am the greatest sexual champion in the history of the universe this year, but that doesn’t mean that I’ve actually verified anything.
Also, I like when he just matter-of-factly says that Derek Jeter is the greatest shortstop in the history of the game. No debate necessary! Although it’s true that by the time he retires he’ll be in that conversation. Still.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've always assumed that's how Miller Light keeps winning awards

by brackenthebox on Nov 30, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's "Lite"

As far as I know, they have not yet won any spelling bees.

Also, Miller Lite tastes like piss. Worse than the Keystones and Natty Lights of the world.

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

mmmm

natty light

/college

Matthew, Mark, Lugo, and John.

by BVHeck on Nov 30, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

gags

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TWSD?

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Y'all are shameless.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

But how much money has Honus Wagner’s foundation given to charity over the last 14 years? That’s what I thought.

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

being fair

Phil Rizzutto donated a kidney to a bum a couple of months ago. I think he should’ve been in the discussion.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 1, 2009 6:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd

for the sheer length alone

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 30, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I came away with 3 great ones from this and all deserve to be analyzed

1. “He brings a dignity and elegance to the game.” Christ on a crutch this isn’t figure skating. I know I’m biased against Jeter and I’ll admit it up front, but there is no elegance, or grace or dignity in his jump throws from short. The only thing more pathetic at Short was watching David Eckstein’s crow hop, so he could short hop one to Pujols. Maybe if he went out and played SS in full Coat and Tails, with a top hat and a monocle, then I’d say he brought dignity and elegance, but then again, you’d just have the F-ing Monopoly man playing Short if that’s what you want. I prefer the undignified, unelegance, raping of pitchers by the Mang. Thanks for playing.

2. “It’s about the manner of the striving” – How could you not go after that jokable line. I feel like that’s an excuse Jeter would use in bed if the girl is unimpressed.

Jeter: “Listen baby, it’s not the size of the piston, it’s the manner of the striving!!”

I’ll remember that for my next job interview. If the guy asks why I deserve the job over other candidates, I’ll calmly tell him that while others may be more qualified or talented, few will strive in the manner with which I strive. I also have good manners, with which to strive in a meaninful manner.

3. Gold glove: At least they acknowledge there were many calls for him to change positions, but after a glorious year of playing shortstop right next to one of the best defensive shortstops/3B in the league, he had great numbers. Go figure. Plus # of errors doesn’t show what he couldn’t get to. Why don’t we just rename it the highest fielding percentage award for players that qualify. At least then it would be meaningful.

Muchos Kudos for your FJM style.

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who was better than Jeter this year on the Yankees?

pretty sure he was their best player by pretty much any meaningful measure…

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 1, 2009 6:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

must be going by the MVP vote. pretty convenient, since that same vote raised alot of eyebrows here, in particular the utley disrespect in NL and, in the AL, texeira placing second, and ahead of jeter.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 1, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair, he had a great year

Far better than anyone else on his team.

by vivaelpujols on Dec 2, 2009 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tim Raines HOF 2010!!!!

Seriously could this guy be more underrated. He is the Chase Utley of the HOF

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 11:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

What does that mean

Is it like saying 60% of the time it works every time, or is there a reference I’m missing?

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

uhhh

Tim Raines = Under rated = Chase Utley

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

gotcha

I see, because both times the Phillies won the MVP in the last 3-4 years, Utley responded: “How quaint, good for you Jimmy/Ryan”

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think alan trammel has already seized that title.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Nov 30, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

roberto alomar

the best all-around 2B i’ve seen until chase utley, so i think he’s a good comparison in the under-appreciated dept.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Nov 30, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a bunch of

flim-flam and nonsense

check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos

by Dttl89 on Nov 30, 2009 12:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What is?

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Nov 30, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it was

REPLY FAIL!!!

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That was the first attempt

to comment from my phone…is was a reply fail…

check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos

by Dttl89 on Nov 30, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't say via mobile... odd.

KIDDING. SBN is crazy.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

someone stole photos of Grady

unrelatedly, has CG posted today?

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 1:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Dollar says it's an intentional stunt

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 30, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

to start his male modeling career?

by FunkeeC on Nov 30, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All publicity is good publicity?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 30, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Sizemore did this.H

His girlfriend might have. But do you really think he would’ve intentionally leaked a photo that showed his teabag?

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Nov 30, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

to promote use of cups?

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He was holding a mug over most of that region...

WORDPLAY!

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Nov 30, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He claims Deadspin stole them from his gf's email.

He’s taking legal action. I am not looking at them because Grady doesn’t even have pictures of himself on the internet without a shirt on. Therefore there is no way he wants anyone to see anything scandalous. This is so un-Grady that it being purposeful is very unlikely.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you got copies?

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have not looked at them.

I plan not to.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

your self control is admirable

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

look at pics of Skip instead

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

His sex lines were out of control

What a monster. (Sex lines, FYI.)

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't want to know.

I’m not clicking that either. I don’t know where it goes and I won’t be tricked into seeing things I want to see.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That goes to urban dictionary.

He’s not tricking you.

Basically, Grady’s got some fine lower abdominal muscles. Lower… lower… yeah those.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Nov 30, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I figured.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think that's right.

He and his girlfriend are claiming a crazed fan stole them from her email.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Nov 30, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know.

That’s what they said first. Crazed fan seems more likely.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe I read it wrong.

I have nor had much sleep recently.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I went back and reread stuff.

I think he is taking legal action against deadspin for posting them when they weren’t theirs to post or something. It was stupid on his part to have stuff he didn’t want people to see on the internet.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lesson for the world

Stop taking naked photos of yourself. It’s crude and it will wind up on the internet. Sue whomever you want — those pictures are out there for good.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Nov 30, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So true.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Nov 30, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Erin Andrews shakes her fist at you

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

who's Chase Utley?

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 1:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sonny and Cher's transsexual daughter, I think, though I could be wrong about that

by mattyp on Nov 30, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There are plenty of "Chase Utley boners" around SBN

A Chase Utley boner is definitely not the same thing as a Chastity Bono.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Nov 30, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A mysterious industrialist?

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Nov 30, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wish I had an almost indestrucable metal suit

and an Energizer Bunny power source in my chest.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 30, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't we all, Forsch...

don’t we all.

"Ryan Howard hit behind Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley. If Albert Pujols hit behind Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley, he would have had 493 RBI. Do the math. It checks out." - FJM

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 30, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cardinals Sign Ruben Gotay

per Matt Leach

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 4:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

barden 2.0?

"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson

by CodyG on Nov 30, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thurston 2.0?

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thurston was probably a better defender at 2B

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Barden was much better on D

He seems to be an average to below average 2B/3B switch hitter that can’t hit lefties well but hits righties above average. Hit righties to a line of .304/.460/.512/.973 w/ a BABIP of 0.336 which works out to a MLE of .243/.371/.388/.759 vs RHP

Fangraphs wrote an article with him in it last week or so ago

Posted good BB to K numbers in PCL last year. 100BBs to 69K’s in

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

meh. i think i'd rather have barden with his top-notch D. wouldn't mind if they resigned barden, too.

i’m guessing the notion here is that gotay could be a platoon partner with freese, as a switch hitter, though freese doesn’t have a very pronounced split.

i could really like a MEM infield of hamilton/descalso/greene/gotay with barden swapping in as needed, whenever someone got called up.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Nov 30, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The 2 skills I value most is OBP and Defense

Gotay has OBP and Barden has D

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

CHONE predicts his 2010 line as

.259/.369/.392

Honestly he doesn’t really fit our team well. Freese doesn’t have major splits against LHP or RHP. Skip can’t hit LHP but neither can Gotay. So everything Gotay does well we have someone that does it better. The only thing he has going for him is that he a switch hitter.

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, he's FAT at a position where we may need some help and he has an arguable ML-level skill.

i’m not excited about it, but it’s pretty risk free.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Nov 30, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He only weighs 160 lbs

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

relax

This could just be a bench move for better depth on our horribly stacked bench

Go Broncos!!

by from First to Third on Nov 30, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

gotta replace

the hoff somehow!

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Nov 30, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

CHONE has Hoff at

.272/.349/.402

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 30, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and nobody hassles him

by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pertinent FanGraphs link

Here.

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

who the shit is ruben gotay

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Nov 30, 2009 4:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

my words exactly.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson

by CodyG on Nov 30, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

See above

I have liked him for awhile. I think he has a ML bat. He certainly would mitigate some of the risk of starting Freese at 3B.

"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.

by indakind on Nov 30, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I say free Brandon Wood!!!!

"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson

by CodyG on Nov 30, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm very afraid guys

Because this has all come to pass on my game of MLB 09 the Show. I created a 3B player, that was drafted by the Cardinals, along the way, I spent two years in the minors, honing my craft, and whittling bats out of Pine trees, hoping to make it in the fabled Cards lineup hitting either in front or behind Pujols. Well make it I did in 2011, and the team had Ruben Gotay on it playing the vast majority of 2B. Skip Schumaker was dealt to Detroit, and Samardzja (sp?) was one of our bullpen guys. David DeJesus was also on the team, as well as Glaus still, although hitting a horrible .240ish line with no SLG to speak of.

So far not scary you say? Well think again. In this mythical 2011 season, Pujols is no longer with the team and plays for Colorado!!!

I feel like the payoff is similar to a horror story where there’s a hook on the rearview mirror.

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 7:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Then again

in my league, Halladay plays for the Rangers, Holliday for the Yankees, and Joe Mauer is on the Phillies. Harden is on Seattle, Abreu is also on the Cards, and Aaron Miles makes the All Star game in 2011, which is played in Arizona. maybe I shouldn’t read too much into it.

Also, why the F did I say I created a 3B player?

by RDCardsfan on Nov 30, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Roberto Alomar is a HOF'er

He has more Gold Gloves than any other 2B in history, he was a 12 time All-Star, he has the postseason pedigree that often excludes players, he has the 2nd most Silver Sluggers for any 2B, and he had a better offensive career than first ballot HOF’er Craig Biggio. If Alomar had hung around 3 more seasons, I’m sure he could have gotten the 276 hits he needed to reach 3,000.

I haven’t seen a better 2B than Alomar outside of Chase Utley in my life. Defensively, he has no equal.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 30, 2009 7:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

one of the two best all-time at his position

until utley finishes his career to make it a big three.

kent is pretty much considered a lock, and we have to debate alomar?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Nov 30, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

all time?

eddie collins, joe morgan, rogers hornsby, et al?

by DanUpBaby on Nov 30, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

he and hornsby.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Nov 30, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

better than Joe Morgan

really?

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 1, 2009 6:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't Joe invent second Base?

How could anyone be better?

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 1, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Napolean Lajoie

Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort

by Cardinals645 on Dec 1, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Go Naps!

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Dec 1, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

man

you’re really going back. he began a decade before collins, who himself preceded ruth by a decade.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 1, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

although morgan (and collins) played five or six more seasons than alomar, i think robbie was the better player. and soon enough i’ll have to admit to myself that utley is better than alomar, just as i once reluctantly had to do with alomar in regard to morgan.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 1, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Comparing alomar and morgan:

Alomar’s career wOBA was .365. His four best seasons were .420, .412, .407 and .402. Pretty damn awesome over 16 seasons (and he only took fewer than 450 PAs in one of those years, and fewer than 550 PAs in three of them).

Morgan’s career wOBA was .382. His four best seasons were .473, .463, .432 and .420 (and these were four consecutive years, 1973-76), so his 4th best season was equivalent to Alomar’s best, and his career wOBA (during a period when offense was, overall, down, compared to Alomar’s later years especially) is quite a long way ahead. Morgan also played 19 “proper” seasons, so he had a longer “decline” phase than Alomar to skew his wOBA southwards. He only had three years where he took fewer than 500 PAs. I’m guessing his PA/yr is similar to Alomar’s, although I can’t really be bothered to check.

By dividing the number of career “runs above average” (net) for each player by every 600 PAs, we can get their rough offensive output per year, compared to average. This didn’t take me long (per Fangraphs):
Morgan: About 30 runs above average with the bat per 600 PAs.
Alomar: About 18 runs above average with the bat per 600 PAs.

So, Morgan was a better hitter, and by a reasonable distance. However, pretty much everything I’ve read about Alomar seems to regard him as a genuinely great defensive player, so it depends what value you put on his defence, really, over an above Morgan.

Given Morgan had a longer career (which surely makes him considerably better as a tie-breaker), I’d have to think that Alomar would have to be about 15 runs/yr better with the glove than Morgan.

Utley’s arguably the best defensive 2B around at the moment, and (according to UZR) he’s worth about 15 runs per season better than an average 2B with the glove. If we generously say Alomar was even better than that, all-time great during his prime, maybe he was a 20-run 2B but, factoring in the fact he played until 35, I think it’s not unreasonable to assume he might’ve been 15 runs/season better than average, across his entire career. So Alomar could’ve been better if Morgan was merely average with the glove, which perhaps is possible – Morgan won 5 Gold Gloves, but he also played in an era that didn’t understand defense very well, and may well have benefitted from the Derek Jeter “give the GG to the best hitter at his position” syndrome. He was, however, generally believed to be a very good defender, as far as I can research.

So, yeah, the jury’s probably out on that one, I suppose. I’d go for Morgan because I suspect it’d be difficult for Alomar to be THAT much better with the glove.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Dec 2, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sean Smith's WAR has Morgan at over 100 per his career, I believe

Anybody with over 100 WAR is a pretty damn good baseball player. One of the all-time greats. It’s hard for me to accept that Alomar could be said to have a better “career” than Morgan. It really all depends on how you value defense.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 2, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm sure morgan

likely had the better “career” (one can’t really argue with monk’s numbers), just as many inferior players, including HOF’ers, had better careers than eric davis, who was nonetheless a phenomenal player.

i’d guestimate having seen both morgan and alomar play 100 games. at some point during alomar’s run i concluded he was better than morgan; likewise, if utley retired tomorrow, i would still say he was better than alomar. as for collins, i have no idea how to evaluate a player of that era, nor even how the stats were kept – for instance, the stolen base data is pretty sketchy. however, i’m pretty sure alomar was better.

also, there’s that morgan played with an inordinate amount of HOF’ers. i don’t know if this helped his numbers. On the other hand, perhaps alomar impressed me more than he merited because he wasn’t playing in a lineup that overshadowed him.

in any event, alomar is one of an exclusive handful of great second baseman, far far ahead of biggio, sandberg. kent, mazeroski, etc. if he’s not a HOF’er then ryan howard is the MVP.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 2, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cool stuff

I have to rely on numbers for both these guys, but Alomar struck me as a probable HOF guy. But of course we’ll see plenty of wacky arguments thrown around by sportswriters soon. Yay!

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Dec 2, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but Joe Morgan is an Asshat.....

So they have that going for them.

* is an Asshat

by RiverRat on Dec 2, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And Roberto Alomar isn't?

I don’t remember Joe Morgan ever spitting in the face of an umpire.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 2, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

has anyone ever considered there was a second spitter in the stands?

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Dec 2, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There's no way he's better than Joe Morgan or Eddie Collins

Sean Smith has Morgan and Collins at over 100 WAR for their careers — go look at the other guys who have better than 100 WAR for their career. That’s pretty elite company.

I don’t see how Alomar can be put ahead of those two by any stretch of the imagination.

Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.

by fourstick on Dec 2, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

obviously

i have a better imagination than sean smith

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 2, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He spit on an umpire

That alone will cost him 25% in the first year regardless how much he has paid Hirschbeck to say it was no big deal. He might get in later on — good thing for him is that spitting on an ump now looks relatively tame compared to steroid milkshakes. He will definitely do better than McGwire, but then again Ray La.nkford may do better than McGwire.

I’m interested to read what kind of write-up he gets by the various analysts.

Just win

by The Duke on Nov 30, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No Tiger Woods talk?

Looks like he gets cold-cocked by his angry wife at 2 in the morning after an Enquirer expose. Crashes his car into a fire hydrant trying to get away. You can’t make it up. Anyone out there think he was headed to Dunkin Donuts at 2am for an old-fashioned and a cup of Jo?

Just win

by The Duke on Nov 30, 2009 8:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

you know what i think?

people’s marriages are their own business.

if tiger had an argument with his wife and drove off angry and crashed his car as a result, then that’s his thing. he doesn’t need to tell anybody. if his wife hit him, that’s a matter for him and the local police to discuss if he wants to. but there’s no law requiring him to file a police report.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Nov 30, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I whole-heartedly agree.

But the presence of the golf club, and the role it may have had, is ironic. Or something.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Nov 30, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

don't you mean....9 iron-ic. I'm here all week, people!

but really, its just stupid that the police are being so persistent about investigating this when neither Tiger nor his wife want to make it a police issue. Sure, the police technically have an interest in investigating matters like this, but are we to believe they show the same persistence when dealing with domestic disputes down at the trailer park (ok…I highly doubt there is a trailer park in the same police jurisdiction, but you get what I’m saying)

by mattyp on Nov 30, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They determined that it wasn't alcohol-related right away

The very first articles about it said as much. That said, they should leave him alone.

by mojowo11 on Nov 30, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know she used a 5 iron...

everyone can carry a 5 iron.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Dec 1, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What is the difference between a golf ball and a SUV?

Tiger Wood’s can drive a golf ball 300 yards

VEB CheBird T-Shirt & Hoodies on CLEARANCE - Red or Powder Blue
Viva After Hours

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 1, 2009 3:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

just saw video

of the alleged other woman meeting today at LAX with her lawyer (gloria allred, of scott-peterson’s-other-woman fame). uh oh. looks like tiger’s gonna be begging the wife for a mulligan on this one.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Dec 1, 2009 4:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that's pretty good flim

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 1, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs