Pujols vs. Wandy
by vivaelpujols on Nov 29, 2009 5:44 AM EST
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PrintWandy. Despite being fruity and somewhat hilarious when uttered (especially if say it like "w-and-y" , that name has brought much anger and exclamations of, "f'ing gdm!" to game threads around VEB. The primary reason for that is how much he has dominated Albert Pujols over his career. Using the invaluable Baseball Reference, we can see that Pujols is just 5 for 31 against Wandy, with 2 doubles, 6 walks and a .523 OPS. Interestingly enough, he's only struck out once.
Fortunately, a large portion of Pujols' plate appearances vs. Wandy have come in the past 3 years. That means we get a chance to explore the matchup more in depth using Pitch f/x data. Overall, there were 96 pitches with full pitch f/x information on them, which isn't much, but probably enough to see some interesting results.
First, let's look at how Wandy's been approaching Pujols:
Despite the small amount of pitches, we can see a pretty distinct pattern of how he's been attacking him. Lot's of curveballs down and in, fastballs on the outer half, and changeups down and away.
Now, let's check out what Albert's been doing with those pitches:
There are a few interesting things to notice from this chart. One is that he has not had a swinging strike against Wandy in the 97 pitches between them capture by Pitch f/x. Even with Pujols' amazing contact ability, that's very surprising given that Wandy is one of the better strikeout pitchers in the league. When you consider how much Pujols has struggled vs. Wandy, it's interesting that none of that is related to him being overpowered.
Another thing to notice is the inconsistency of the strike zone at the bottom end. There are at least 5 pitches called strikes that are in the same exact location as pitches that were called balls. That effect seems to be favoring Pujols actually, as he's gotten a lot of close pitches to go his way. Also, most of his outs are on fastballs on the high outer half. Unsurprisingly, most of those are fly ball or pop outs.
I would dig deeper, but there is really only so much you can do with 96 pitches. Really, the main reason Pujols has struggled against Wandy is that he hasn't been squaring him up much. He's only hit 9% line drives against Wandy compared to over 20% against all other players. That's manifested itself in very few hits, and thus lower production.
However, Pujols has still shown a great eye and contact ability, so there is no reason to think that Wandy really has his number. Expect El Hombre to hit much better against Wandy in the future.
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I for one will not engage in this Fist meme instead I will resurrect an old meme
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
by CodyG on Nov 29, 2009 7:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
b b bbbutttt i like the less old meme
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
this is about 139K, give or take...
and about 1555 pixels of screen space.
one line of text is approximately 15 pixels.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
subject lines ftw?
(and for my loss)
and apologies for that lack of consideration….was trying one final nail in the coffin of the meme without being explicit about it (because meme killing is a meme too…) . so yeah, my bad
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
I gotta say, the more meme-killing turns into a meme
the more I am reminded of BCB.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 29, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
You'd think people would, you know, just stop
It’s funny for a little, but after that it’s actually annoying to have to scroll through/minimize a ton of pictures.
the more people say to stop
the more it won’t.
I’ve watched dozens of memes die natural deaths, but people gotta start the gif wars over it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 29, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
well my whole point was to do it without saying it....
and i only say this because the internet is serious business
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
I'm probably at least a little to blame.
Hence the self-inflicted banishment from VEB for a week or so. (Well, I was actually just traveling. It’s going to be weird to catch up with all the wacky new developments.)
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
OWWWWW MY SCAPHOID!!!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 1, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
In this season of being thankful
Let’s us be thankful for titles on comments with pictures attached.
interesting stuff VEP. Is there a reason it shows a left handed batter (just a default image – perhaps)?
Albert is really left handed
when he’s bored of this right handed experiment, he’ll throw it off and switch to his natural swing.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 29, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh goodness...
if only that were true. It’d be like Wesley in the Princess Bride. First time he strikes out 5 times in a row, or drops below a .400 OBP/.600 SLG he gets asked, “Why are you smiling?” and simply answers, “Because I know something you don’t know.” Then, he promptly comes to bat left-handed for the entire next week and has a .400/.500/1.200/1.700 line and obliterates everyone.
OK…enough with that craziness coming out of my head…we already have the Mang, and he is ridiculous.
and then carpenter comes out and reveals he's a lefty too
and can throw 110
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
mind = blown
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 29, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
and we find out that Colby's been playing with ankle weights on
the whole time
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Nov 29, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
And he turns into Angels in the Outfield?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 29, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
which makes me think
why are there no switch throwing pitchers?
you could get twice as much work out of them. think if our rotation was carp, carp, waino, waino, lohse
man!
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
which makes me hope
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
I was about to say
he does exist
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 30, 2009 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
There was a story about Satchel Paige doing that in a double header.
But I have never really found any confirmation for it. That would be pretty damn cool though.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 29, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
It's just the image I always use for these little graphs
It’s annoying to get it the other way, so I just leave it lefty.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 29, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
surely you could just open it in ms paint
and flip it.
y’know, if you wanted to. not a big deal either way
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
it's unbelievable how he hasn't had a single swinging strike in 97 pitches
i swing and miss on the medium speed batting cages and this guy is making contact every time he choose to swing.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
of Wandys past...
I think these are all the game threads from this season. but I could be wrong.
some good stuff in there for the math nerds.
- http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/21/957135/game-96-open-thread
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/7/21/957254/game-96-overflow-thread
- http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/8/1/972104/game-107-open-thread-august-1-2009
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/8/1/972374/game-107-overflow
- http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/8/25/1002315/game-127-open-thread-astros-at
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/8/25/1002376/game-127-overflow-thread
- http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/9/21/1047528/are-we-one-game-off-again-open
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/9/21/1047623/wandy-rodriguez-gets-beaten-up
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
No comprende on Wandy hate
I don’t get why there is so much of it. You have a little guy who is masterful. But instead of the Ecksteineque “little engine that could”, we get expletives. Personally, I would get more excited over Maddux than the Big Unit. I think if you are 6’10", you are supposed to be able to annihilate a pigeon. The 6’ 170 pounder impressed me more. Having said that, I hope Wandy loses every time he pitches vs. the Cards.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Yes, somewhat
Don’t fault you for hating ‘Stros. As a comparison, I think there is less hate on Oswalt even when he was better/uninjured. I am just trying to understand the additional hate or hate+ vs. Wandy. Is it the name or the stature (or lack of)? To my knowledge it’s not due to any non-baseball antics.
I used to hate ‘Stros more when they had Becky [sic]. But for the life of me, I can’t ever hate Berkman, I just root vs. him.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
you might be misconstruing the "hate". not to mention, have you ever heard the term Cardinal killer?
Wandy Rodriguez:
G GS CG SHO IP H R ER
Total 144 135 2 2 790.0 796 422 380
HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
93 285 660 4.33 1.37 .263
vs. STL 15 14 0 0 82.0 75 44 36
HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
6 17 59 3.95 1.12 .245
And the players he shuts down….. I’ll have to restart this computer, the graphics program isn’t cooperating, but it’s maddening. (The players he doesn’t shut down may not be with us next year.)
A Wandy game is a highly frustrating game that the Cards are likely to win … but not easily. The strong feeling is more in the general vein of “this guy? THIS GUY shut us down??” — and focused on Wandy because of that group, he has the most games against us, and doesn’t fall under the subcategory of ex-Cardinals killers.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 29, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
heh. Busch Stadium:
IP H ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 17.0 11 5 1 4 14 2.65 0.88 .180
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 29, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Got you
Hate could mean different things. In the baseball performance vs. Cards sense, I HATE Wandy’s guts!
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
uh, because size doesn't matter when he's the incoming train.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 29, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
let's see if this works...
No stolen bases and caught Yadi stealing once.
Note Adam Wainwright and Albert Pujols.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 29, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
note
Greene
Holliday
DeRosa
Glaus
well that sort of sucks
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
and that's why we wring our hands when Wandy comes to town.
The ’Stros know, too. They move his starts into Cards series as often as possible.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Where's Jose Vizcaino when we need him?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The "Wandy being good" thing doesn't really surprise me. He's a good left-handed pitcher. He's good against other teams too.
Manny Parra on the other hand…
Fuck.
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
wCB
FIP
tRA
WAR
2009
23.9
3.54
3.91
4.0
2008
3.7
3.62
4.48
2.7
2007
17.9
4.18
4.42
2.7
2006
-0.4
4.86
5.87
1.1
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
well, that didn't work!
it wasn’t important i was just trying to make a table. will it only work on fanposts and not comments?
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
Just a thought
It may be not what you were wanting and possibly a bit confusing at first, but you might have to put your headings across the top and all your data in collumns beneath each.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 29, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
That's what every sabertable looks like to me
and I always wonder why you just can’t post how many wins the pitcher has or what the batting average is of the hitter in question….
Just win
nice post, vep.
Seems like wandy has the most success against albert w/ his curve.
Another reason not to let ADAM go. Wainwright v. Pujols? Would pay to see that.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 29, 2009 7:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
that sounds like a Cage Match. Go!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
One thing we can't really measure here
is how well Albert is picking up the ball out of Wandy’s hand.
This is just speculation, but based on the graphs here, it looks to me like Albert is having trouble deciphering the curve when it’s thrown, since the ones that are in similar locations to the fastball are the ones that he tends to put into play for outs. I agree, VEP, that he just doesn’t seem to square up the ball as well, and perhaps this is the reason why.
Some hitters just have real difficulty with picking up the ball off of certain pitchers. Considering that Albert generally hammers breaking pitches over the plate, it seems like this could be the case. However, I would also expect him to have some swinging strikes on the good curves or change-ups (the curves that are buried down and away and the change-ups away).
It also seems like Wandy has done a pretty good job of getting ahead of Pujols in counts, which makes the curveball on the outer half much more effective. He busts him in with fastballs and then goes away with the softer stuff — and he doesn’t seem to make mistakes in the middle of the plate. That’s the textbook way to deal with a power hitter, and I do think that good pitching execution will beat good hitting execution a vast majority of the time.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
I think you may be reading the graph wrong
That’s probably my fault for using the wrong batter hand. The graphs show the pitch location from the catchers point of view to a LHH, so the curveballs “down and away” are actually down and in to Pujols.
As to your points, I don’t disagree. He’s actually seen the curve ball reasonably well. They’ve consistently been in excellent locations, yet he’s been able to make contact with them and take a lot of them for balls.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 29, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
nefdex'd me there.
Also, the lack of swinging strikes makes it seem like if he’s deceiving pujols it’s not like he’s really making him look like a fool.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
here I fixed one of the graphs(somewhat)
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Nice job and all
but doesn’t really have his crouch right… You’re really letting the team down here.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
better?
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
by CodyG on Nov 29, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
it's all worth it when you say you were a jackass
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Yeah I've been a jackass for a long long time
I have no problem admitting as much.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
it's OK everyone has a little jackass inside them that wants to come out
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
that's what she said?
no, no that’s what you said.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
...
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Nice.
Although I would have imagined that gdm would be the person to post that.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
drats my second identity has been blown
quick look at the bacon Pegacorn thingy and forget
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
I'll see your bacon pegacorn
and raise a piece of tasty cake.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
how do I top that?
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Is there a way to make gifs desktop backgrounds
I would be so happy watching that tiled on my screen… you’d have to surgically remove the smile from my face.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
...
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
we all do
we all do,sigh
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Sometimes I think
I’m one of like 5 people who enjoy Dameshek’s work… Such is my burden I suppose.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
love that sandoval gif
" If I had a gun on a boat I would shoot you right here, right now"
by pinkelposse on Nov 30, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Gotta rec that.
If it weren’t a holiday weekend it would be green twice over.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 29, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
thanks, you guys
the hardest part was finding a image at that angle. though it was worth the end result.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
It was quite amazing work
Once we get the awards up and running you should totally walk away with one.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Where did you find that!!?!?!?!!!!!!!
I’ve been looking for ever for a picture of PUjols from the back.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 29, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
it was really small so it kind of sucked
here is the source image
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
I really don't want to know why
you’ve been looking for a picture of Pujols from the back.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
make your wife wear it and take her from behind?
get creative, guys.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 1, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
You live in a very strange world Monk.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 1, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I hope this becomes common place
Like, I hope the BtB people start mixing up the graphs like this. It’s completely aesthetics but it’s just plain cool.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I used to do stuff like that with flight paths at Driveline
I would put a side image of the pitcher in.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 29, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
i found a sample of it
here. I like it.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
waaaaaaay better.
" If I had a gun on a boat I would shoot you right here, right now"
by pinkelposse on Nov 30, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
I think we have to treat Albert a little differently
He’s actually seen the curve ball reasonably well.
He’s one of those few hitters that is so short to the ball with such a large plane covered that he can be totally fooled and still foul a pitch off — which is what makes him such a tough out. He has so few swings and misses that you really have to fool him with hard stuff or a ball in the dirt in order to get him to swing and miss.
I was reading the graph wrong, though.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
seemed to me
apu was always looking curve, and generally fouled them to the left side, and it was the outer fastball that he hit weakly for outs, but this is just a recollection of an impression. Is there a “combo” chart that shows hits/outs by pitch type?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
you can probably cross reference the two charts easily
if not, I’ll make a combo chart
by vivaelpujols on Nov 30, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
i feel stupid
but that works. thanks. another (likely stupid) question: does “called strikes” encompass foul balls, or are foul balls just not included?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i don't know why Albert can't hit Wandy
and if it drives us nuts, you know it’s got to be killing Albert. all i do know is he should own him like he owns the rest of baseball. and one day soon when i yell out, YOU SUCK WANDY! every time he takes the mound vs the Birds, it will actually work
on a side note, i was looking at my profile & i noticed my next post will be #25000 here at VEB. i am both equal parts shocked, embarrassed, ashamed & amazed of that feat. i think the appropriate words here are HFS®
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
can I have the honor of being apart of your 25000th post?
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
Anything worth doing
is worth doing a whole bunch.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 29, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Better make it a good one.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
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