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Around SBN: NFL Week One: Previews and Predictions for all 15 games

The Greatest Cardinals of Each Time: The Last Von der Ahe

Part one: The American Association Browns, 1882-1891

By 1891 the American Association is about to topple over—the wealthier owners, like the Browns' Chris Von der Ahe, are no longer willing to float weaker teams to remain independent, and the National League agrees to accept four clubs (but not the 1891 pennant-winning Boston Reds) into the senior circuit. And that, for a decade, is the end of two-league baseball. 

The National League hasn't had a St. Louis representative since 1886, and that team was itself a shaky transplant. It was the St. Louis Maroons, who had begun life as the big fish in millionaire Henry Lucas's toy baseball league, the Union Association. Without question the weakest league to be considered "major" by baseball's encyclopedias, the Union Association was Lucas's invention, and operated a lot like a rigged game of Baseball Mogul; he grabbed the best of the players willing to jump from the two established leagues and proceeded to go 94-19 (135-27 in MLB parlance) against a bunch of minor leaguers and has-beens on franchises that were at risk of folding from the moment they began play. 

Star-divide

(Posterisk: the end result of this is that, if you're ever wondering who had the best season in St. Louis history, and you're not at all interested in adjusting for context, your answer is almost certainly Fred "Sure Shot" Dunlap, who had the kind of season Chase Utley might put together in the Texas League as the star of the Maroons in 1884. In a league that hit .247/.274/.320 [I'm not going to beat red baron's inspired "Bat Gagnozzi", but if you're looking for a stealthy Matt Pagnozzi nickname "The Union Association" isn't bad], Dunlap hit .412/.448/.621, for an OPS+ of 258.) 

After his league collapsed, Lucas went once more to the ATM and came back with the Maroons' entry fee to join the National League, whose St. Louis Original Brown Stockings had folded in 1877. Unable to compete against the Browns, who outdrew everyone else in the American Association, or the National League, the Maroons folded in 1886 and Lucas, having squandered his seven-figure inheritance, became a railroad clerk. (Dunlap, who was probably very disappointed after the UA folded, hit .270/.334/.333 [OPS+ 119] to pace the Maroons in 1885.) 

The Maroons were ill-equipped to compete with anybody, save for their hand-picked Washington Generals in the UA, but being in St. Louis didn't help—for a while the Browns' Von der Ahe was Mark Cuban, George Steinbrenner, and the Turkmenbashi all rolled up into one thick German accent. Here are some of the things Von der Ahe did while pacing the AA in attendance: Build himself an enormous statue in front of the ballpark doors; construct an amusement park, with horse racing and an artificial lake, just past the outfield; get arrested in Pittsburgh at the request of a pitcher who'd received a legal judgment against him; and, intermittently, install himself as interim manager, despite knowing almost nothing about the sport, or sports.

Von der Ahe had made his fortune on cheap tickets and expensive beer, but a series of mostly unrelated legal entanglements after the move to the NL turned the St. Louis Browns, four-time AA champions, into second division stalwarts almost overnight. Charlie Comiskey, their field manager in the Association, left for Cincinnati before 1892; he was replaced by a series of ineffectual and temporary player managers, including Bob Caruthers, who returned in 1892 a still-formidable hitter, a dead-armed pitcher, and an undercooked leader of men. To be the greatest Cardinal of this period, between the Browns of the American Association and the Cardinals, borne of a luckily more euphoniously named shade of red than Maroon in 1900, is to be damned with faint praise. But somebody needs to be. Your top hitters between 1892 and 1899: 

Rk Player OPS+ PA To From G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB BA OBP SLG
1 Roger Connor 125 1536 1894 1897 350 1344 245 409 81 44 27 240 179 39 .304 .390 .490
2 Lave Cross 107 1073 1898 1899 254 1005 132 313 42 13 7 143 45 25 .311 .342 .400
3 Perry Werden 106 1217 1892 1893 274 1098 146 292 44 35 9 178 108 31 .266 .338 .394
4 Duff Cooley 102 1115 1893 1896 255 1042 190 340 19 27 8 130 63 54 .326 .366 .419
5 Doggie Miller 96 1065 1894 1895 248 971 174 306 24 15 13 160 83 35 .315 .375 .411
6 Steve Brodie 96 1171 1892 1893 261 1071 156 301 26 17 6 139 85 69 .281 .342 .354
7 Jack Crooks 95 1442 1892 1898 328 1118 208 253 21 15 9 106 297 57 .226 .396 .296
8 Monte Cross 95 1046 1896 1897 256 889 125 236 27 17 10 107 120 78 .265 .361 .368
9 Heinie Peitz 87 1169 1892 1895 286 1037 149 276 45 30 6 159 126 35 .266 .348 .385
10 Tommy Dowd 82 3122 1893 1898 684 2862 489 788 96 51 17 277 211 187 .275 .328 .362
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/27/2009.

It's not a beautiful list, but the top position player in this time of considerable upheaval and mediocrity is Roger Connor, chiefly remembered today for being the man whose 138 career home runs were the MLB record for several years until some other guy broke it. Most famously a New York Giant—his 6'3" frame supposedly inspired the name—Connor had played since 1880, and St. Louis was his last stop. 36 in 1894, he put together two outstanding seasons and one ominous adequate one before retiring midway through 1897. (The other interesting name on the list, Lave Cross, played for twenty years from 1887-1907, which is about a hundred and fifty seasons in twentieth century years.) Hopefully the pitching ranks can give us a more inspiring champion for this time period, which the Cardinals would somehow rather claim than the Browns of the 1880s. 

Rk Player ERA+ IP To From Age GS CG SHO W L H R ER BB SO ERA HR WP
1 Ted Breitenstein 108 1881.2 1892 1896 23-27 217 195 5 92 122 1970 1241 901 811 609 4.31 65 29
2 Pink Hawley 108 786.0 1892 1894 19-21 85 75 0 30 58 890 606 389 315 256 4.45 24 38
3 Kid Gleason 101 838.1 1892 1894 25-27 98 86 3 43 52 900 570 382 359 228 4.10 31 26
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/27/2009.

Well, no. I'll say this for Ted Breitenstein: It's not his fault. (I'm considering sponsoring his Baseball-Reference page with that motto.) I'm hard-pressed to name the second-to-last man to lose 30 games in a season as spokesman for his generation, but these teams couldn't hit, they couldn't play defense, and on days when he wasn't on the mound (or in the box, as Breitenstein began his career just before the pitcher's box disappeared and the battery distance was settled at 60 feet six inches) they couldn't usually pitch. One year their second best pitcher was Dad Clarkson, inexplicably nicknamed younger brother of John, the most dominating pitcher of the 1880s. I can't fault a guy for struggling when Mike Maddux is of paramount importance to his team's success.

Pink Hawley was a teenager who adjusted to the new pitching distance the year after the Browns traded him for nothing much and cash considerations; Kid Gleason, another guy whose dead arm eventually forced him to the outfield, is best remembered for being the manager of the 1919 White Sox

It is with some reservations, and a tip of the goofy-looking cap to Ted Breitenstein, who played for a terrible team in one of the worst possible times to be a young pitcher, that I give this contest, such as it was, to Roger Connor. Connor was an excellent player, one of the best hitters of the 1880s, and sheer inertia was enough to make him the best Cardinal of the 1890s. 

In 1898 Von der Ahe's ballpark burned down; in the years before permanent concrete ballparks this was the equivalent of the modern-day acrimonious divorce team sell-off, and as if to make matters worse for Der Boss, he happened to have an acrimonious divorce going on at the same time. After years of declining revenues, Chris Von der Ahe, bankrupt, sold out of the franchise he had built from scratch.

Frank and Stanley Robison, sensing an opportunity, took over; the Browns had been dead weight for years, but the brothers had an advantage over Von der Ahe: they owned another team, filled with useful players. It's a good thing they preferred St. Louis, because the other team had the great misfortune of being the Cleveland Spiders. 

2 recs  |  Comment 86 comments |

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Nicely done

And I’m way too lazy to post a picture of a fist… I think that laziness is the only true way to kill this meme… I’m doing my part.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 2:40 AM EST reply actions  

did someone say fist?

"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson

by CodyG on Nov 27, 2009 3:22 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

+1

Would rec again.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Nov 27, 2009 5:21 AM EST up reply actions  

PS - Forth!

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Nov 27, 2009 5:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely loved that show.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That dude is hilarious

Always was

My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier

by Taskmaster on Nov 27, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess this means I add Bat Gagnozzi to the glossary

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 27, 2009 8:38 AM EST reply actions  

To be the greatest Cardinal of this period, between the Browns of the American Association and the Cardinals, borne of a luckily more euphoniously named shade of red than Maroon in 1900, is to be damned with faint praise.

Very interesting. Well done.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Nov 27, 2009 8:40 AM EST reply actions  

Very well done indeed.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 27, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

The Pretzel Battery

I was actually reading about Heinie Peitz this morning. I have my copy of The Bill James New Historical Baseball Abstract ready at hand in the bathroom and had flipped over to Peitz’s entry (#82 @ C). There was a mention of him and one of the pitchers listed above.

“Peitz and Ted Breitenstein were known as the ‘Pretzel Battery’; … [they] got the name after a game one day, when they were sitting in the back room at the Golden Lion saloon in St. Louis, eating pretzels and drinking beer. A fan came in and shouted to the bartender, ‘Hey, look who’s back here. It’s that pretzel battery, Breitentstein [sic] and Peitz.’ The name stuck, and became the lead line of both men’s obituaries.”

Other players above that made one of James’ Top 100 positional lists: Connor (#22, 1B; selected as Best 1B of the 1890’s)), Lave Cross (#33, 3B; selected as Gold Glove 3B of the 1890’s), Werden (selected as Best Minor League Player of the 1890’s), Miller (#76, C), Brodie (#98, CF), Monte Cross (along with Tommy Dowd in 1896, selected as the Worst Double Play Combination of the 1890’s), & Gleason (#72 @ 2B!; considered the 6th greatest combo pitcher/position player).

Great story about Pink Hawley (selected as best Pitcher for 1895): “Pink Hawley, who won 167 games between 1892 and 1901, had an identical twin brother, Blue Hawley, who died in 1891, when they were 18. The two played together as the pitcher and catcher on a semi-pro team in Wisconsin until Blue died, thus forming the ‘Pink and Blue Battery.’ Their parents had pink and blue ribbon on hand before the twins were born, to be ready for either a boy or a girl. When they got twin boys they tied pink ribbon to one and blue to the other to keep them straight, and then got in the habit of calling them ‘Pink’ and ‘Blue.’”

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Nov 27, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions  

Speaking of research

Is there a way to get the daily newspaper stories of any season from history? If you wanted to read through the dailies for the 1946 season for instance, can you do that somewhere?

Just win

by The Duke on Nov 27, 2009 10:01 AM EST reply actions  

What you need is a

TIME MACHINE

(I’m the guy on the left.)

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Nov 27, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

And I chuckled at it each posting.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 27, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

The library?

Kids nowadays…

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Nov 27, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

The library...

probably has subscriptions to Lexisnexis and other such databases.

You can’t conquer the world from your basement!!!

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Nov 27, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Totally off topic

I just read that the Pirates are looking at Ankiel (which everyone already knew) and Hank Blalock. I then started thinking about the Pirates and, maybe a piece of turkey got lodged in my arteries and is cutting off blood to my brain, but I started thinking about how I could actually get excited about watching that team if I lived in Pittsburgh. Forget about actual performance for a minute (that’s a big part of this exercise). If someone told you at various points in time (when each of these guys was at the peak of their prospect projections) that a team would have McCutchen, Garret Jones, Andy LaRoche, Lastings Milledge, Jeff Clement, Pedro Alvarez, and Ryan Doumit in their line-up at the same time, you would not have named the Pirates as that team.

Most of these guys will flop (or already have flopped). However, as a glass half-full kind of guy, I could probably buy my heavily discounted Pirates season tickets this year in my imaginary Pirates-loving world, and be pretty excited about the young team that was going on the field.

by Cardaholic on Nov 27, 2009 10:10 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed...

Ankiel will have plenty of exciting young players to strand.

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Nov 27, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

ya that's a def a team that could use a Racheal Phelps

cardboard cut out and have a montage that gets them into a tie for first.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Nov 27, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I think their big problem

and it’s still continuing today, even with the (IMO pretty good) new front office, is, like the Cardinals (but with a smaller budget), they’re not great at acquiring/developing impact talent. It’s all well and good to generate a farm that’ll turn over lots of 2-win players, but the eventual result of that will just be an 81-win team, unless they expand payroll to sign some stars in the coming years.

Except for maybe Alvarez (and Tony Sanchez is looking pretty good early on, actually) it’s hard to see where the impact talent is in that system. Of course, they could work on drafting some next year, but I think that (especially now they’ve traded all their useful pieces, mostly for yet more prospects who project as average-ish major leaguers) they’re going to find it hard to internally develop a very above-average team. Still, I think they’re my 2nd favourite team in the division (mainly cos it’s hard to hate on the perennial cellar-dwellers. I also quite like the uniforms).

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Nov 27, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I also think Alvarez will be a stud player and there may be something to Garrett Jones. I live in Minneapolis and there used to be a good deal of hype around Jones here as a future power-hitting 1B/OF. Then, Morneau blew up, Jones struggled in a few call-ups, and everyone forgot about him. His second half may have been a fluke. Or, it may be the precursor to a few 30HR seasons coming up. I guess we’ll see.

by Cardaholic on Nov 27, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

He is

but he’s already in the major leagues.

I was talking about their farm. Other than Alvarez, who projects to maybe be Aramis Ramirez if he hits his ceiling, there’s not a lot of real potential stars there. There’s 3 or 4 good pitching prospects but, a little like some of ours, none project higher than a #3 in a decent rotation. I guess Alderson could be a Kevin Slowey-type #2 if he can pick things up again this year, he had a bit of a down year in 09 and his stuff isn’t typical ace-material from what I understand.

If they’re going to have any 5+ win players (and I actually include McCutcheon in this, even though I really like him and picked him up in fantasy this year before he was promoted) they’re probably gonna have to get them externally, and it’s hard to be a contender without at least one or two of those sorts of players. If they’re going to create a strong team made up largely of 3-WAR guys most (if not all) of their prospects are going to have to pan out.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Nov 28, 2009 4:33 AM EST up reply actions  

So you're saying

the Indian game show winners aren’t impact players? Interesting.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 27, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I used to really like them when I was a kid.

Not more than the Cardinals. But when they had Dave Parker, Willie Stargell, and that submarine-throwing Kent Tekulve, they were fun to watch.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

when i was a young lad Barry Bonds, Bobby Bo & Doug Drabek were their big stars

i liked them two, mostly because of Bonds. he was so underrated back then. then they all left & they have been the laughing stock of the NL ever since. kind of sad when you think about it.

i think Dick should 6ly think about going there. he’d be under almost no pressure to win. it’d be almost a perfect situation for him.

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed on Dick going to Pitt.

I really liked Bo and Drabek. Never did like Bonds tho. Just something about him hit me wrong.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably the cream...

or perhaps the clear… not that there’s anything wrong with that.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably something in the water.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

I think he might actually do well there… not really well, but better than most places

I cannot repeal the words of the golden eel

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 27, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

i mostly appreciate them

for trading us dick groat

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Nov 27, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't actually know if Rick gets in that OF

it’s probably about their strongest area. I guess he could be a nice platoon piece, maybe with Brandon Morrow in RF or something. I’m guessing they want to see what Milledge can do in a full-time role ASAP and McCutcheon is basically unmoveable in CF.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Nov 28, 2009 4:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Also totally off topic

If it’s possible to do a fanshot via mobile phone, I couldn’t figure it out…the world’s newest cardinals fan is set to be born this afternoon!….that is all

Mizzou 37 - Illinois 9

by STLRegalia on Nov 27, 2009 11:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

profile update to celebrate the day

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on Nov 27, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Hoo-ray

I love a little baseball history in late November.

godfather of futureredbirds.net

by erik on Nov 27, 2009 11:38 AM EST reply actions  

I just noticed your signature.

And, since I watched “The Godfather” last night.

Don Corleone: Bonasera, Bonasera, what have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully? If you’d come to me in friendship, this scum who ruined your daughter would be suffering this very day. And if by some chance an honest man like yourself made enemies they would become my enemies. And then, they would fear you.

Bonasera: Be my friend… Godfather.

[the Don at first shrugs, but upon hearing the title he lifts his hand, and a humbled Bonasera kisses the ring on it]

Don Corleone: Good.

[He places his hand around Bonasera in a paternal gesture]

Don Corleone: Some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me. But until that day, consider this justice a gift on my daughter’s wedding day.

[a gratified Bonasera offers his thanks and leaves]

Don Corleone: [to Hagen] Give this job to Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren’t going to be carried away. I mean, we’re not murderers, in spite of what this undertaker thinks…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 27, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Everything you ever wanted to know about OPS+

Nice little piece over at Yahoo about OPS+. Who was that it was looking for league-adjusted stats the other day?

The basic principle is to take a player’s OPS (which is the sum of on-base percentage and slugging percentage), adjust it for different ballpark factors and then put it on a percentage scale. When it comes to OPS+, 100 is the league average, 110 is 10 percent above league average, and 90 is 10 percent below league-average. The actual number of ballpark variables involved makes the calculation complicated to write out here, but the actual arithmetic is simple.

OPS+ = 100 x (OBP/lgOBP*+SLG/lgSLG*- 1)

I know what your’e asking: What are lgOBP* and lgSLG*? They’re park-adjusted measures for the league-average OBP. Park factors can be very complex and are generally beyond the scope of this article, but ESPN’s park factor formula for runs is relatively simple and gets at the basic concept:…

This piece also gets into how ESPN calculates its park factors.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 27, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

Nice!

Glad to see Yahoo! doing their part to spread SABR to the masses.

Now with extra feisty!

by spants on Nov 27, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Baby steps

I’ve reached the point where I can’t even understand how people can’t figure out how (at the very least) OBP and/or SLG tell you more about a player than batting average.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 27, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You damn kids and you new fangled stats

I’m so old fashioned I only want to know hits. Don’t care about these fancy doubles and home runs people keep talking about. Get off my lawn.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Good grief man.

You sound like you’re older than me. lol

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh I have the feeling

that you can create any stat to support any random point you want to make. And at some point the eye test still holds some value.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't argue with that at all.

The proof is in the pudding as they say.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

mmmm,,,,pudding,,,,

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Needs more bacon mug.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

great idea, next time i make pudding

i’m going to put some chopped up bacon on top of it

bacon, what can’t it do?

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Prevent heart disease?

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Overrated

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

who says i even have a heart?

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Here I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt

and this is how you repay my kindness… thanks a lot jackass.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

....

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

That's uber amazing...

rec for a job well done.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

that better not be cool whip!

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Nov 27, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanx for that. I believe it was me that was wondering how they came up with that differential.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

other than home runs

it would seem that park factors are really team factors
i suspect it is not so much hitting in pittsburg as it is hitting against the pirates staff

not to diminish the hr effects in houston and chicago

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Nov 27, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

i know it was a different time, but i'm impressed

By breitenstein’s 1900 innings in 5 years.

Good summary, dan.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Nov 27, 2009 2:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

And the fact he completed most games he started

Back in the day did they not have 25 men on the roster? He was averaging more than 40 starts a year. 35 starts was the most this year. With that many starts and that many complete games you don’t need a large bullpen. Like 2 or 3 guys. Was the bench just that deep?

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 27, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I can only imagine Dusty Baker

seeing those pitching stats and muttering to himself that he was born too late. On another note there’s no way TLR could ever allow that many complete games in a season. He’d likely have been burned for witchcraft with all his pitching changes.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

and here i thought my days of getting learned were over

nice work danny boy

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 3:28 PM EST reply actions  

did you all hear about Tiger?

this is strange. hope he’s alright.

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 3:36 PM EST reply actions  

that guy runs an exotic/classic car restoration company

i think it was fake & a publicity stunt. i mean it just happens to be on film? come on. and that road he was on, why was he on it? it was just a turn around road. it goes no where. that was totally fake. there was no birds, he didn’t drop his phone. it was all for the publicity.

BREAKING NEWS

Tiger’s fine

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Still a bold publicity stunt to put a Bugatti in the drink.

I don’t care what you do or how much money you have… we should just have the officer on the scene put you down on the spot for a move like that.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, i think the death penality is justified in this situtation

you don’t destroy a Veyron, quite possibly the greatest car ever made just for your 15 minutes of fame

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Nov 27, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Ba-da-ching!

(sorry, don’t know the rim-shot addy)

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 27, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

instantrimshot.com

My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier

by Taskmaster on Nov 27, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Good job Danup.

I really get a kick outta the old school stuff. As my dad would say “When there were wooden ships and iron men.”.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

OT: Does anyone else feel cheated

when you’re watching the WWL and see a bottom line score that blows your mind… then see it’s women’s basketball? Can we just all agree to not post those scores until there’s actually a demand for the information? Sorry if I’ve offended any women’s college ball fans out there.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 3:54 PM EST reply actions  

I have a neice that would prolly want to take a chunk out your ass for a comment like that.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Still the majority of people have no interest in seeing those scores.

When did majority rule stop applying to sports of all things. This year’s Cy Young first place vote not withstanding.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying you're not correct.

I’m just saying that is a very tall precipice with sharp rocks at the bottom. I have a hard time watching it myself because it’s like watching men’s ball from the fifties.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a hard time

because it’s so painful to watch them shoot. In other news… here’s a video that will probably anger your niece as well..

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

But they play...

a purer form of the game…

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Nov 27, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Something like that.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually she might laugh at that.

Or she might throw an elbow. Never can tell with her.

I thought it was damn funny though. Somebody did a good job of making it look like the old Atari version.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 27, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

They've been ramming...

women’s b-ball down our throats for years now. Why?

MB for LF in 2010!

by guayzimi on Nov 27, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

There's a very easy joke there...

but I’m not going to be the one to touch it.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Also a very easy joke here.

My halloween costume: the Indiana secondary iPhone- no matter how much you want to love it, you know the coverage area sucks.
-ChronicHoosier

by Taskmaster on Nov 27, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

If you think that was by chance you are a fool.

I’m a true wordsmith and stuff.

"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon

by ducttape16 on Nov 27, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Great Post!

I love reading about pre-1900 MLB. Seriously, the stories of those days puts most other epochs to shame for pure entertainment value. I guess 1900-1919 isn’t bad either.

I think it’s the relatively unstable nature of the league that produced nutty owners, ball-players who were, ah-hem, uninhibited, etc.

Great stuff. Any more?

by Scarecrow7775 on Nov 27, 2009 7:30 PM EST reply actions  

I hate reading about baseball from any era.

I just come here to complain.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Nov 28, 2009 4:42 AM EST up reply actions  

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