Rule 5: You do talk about the Rule 5 draft
by DanUpBaby on Nov 19, 2009 6:00 AM EST
951 comments
Nothing exemplifies the Hot Stove season quite like worrying about the Rule 5 draft. Most of the players don't stick it out all year; most of the ones that do are eventually traded for Ronnie Belliard or Blaine Boyer; and most of the time it would be completely absurd to spend time thinking about this. Fangraphs won't return my calls, but according to my new WARP/seconds-in-your-limited-lifespan converter most of these guys peak around fifteen, twenty seconds. (Brian Barton, simply because his nickname was briefly "Enunciate It", broke the curve at forty-five.)
But it is November, and I already did a VEB Theater, and though it kills me to say it there is no baseball going on at Busch Stadium. So let us take solace in the dim light of this good news: the Cardinals will probably not lose a useful player to the Rule 5 draft this year. In approximate order of near-term usefulness:
ALLEN CRAIG
WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT HIM: He doesn't really have a position; he's a minor league slugger who played in the PCL, so his numbers are vaguely suspicious; he strikes out too much and doesn't walk enough.
WHY WE WILL ANYWAY: He's looking more likely every day to spend significant time in left field in 2010, and there's a non-zero chance that he has a hot month while David Freese burns and Tony La Russa is suddenly convinced he can play third. He's never crushed a league, but he's also been extremely consistent level to level—in his three full seasons he's always hit .300, always hit 20 home runs, and always managed an OBP over .365. If the Cardinals find a left-handed outfielder they're comfortable with he is the ideal short side of a platoon.
JON JAY
WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT HIM: He might be the platonic representative of the Cardinals' more conservative draft inclinations—he's almost guaranteed to be a likable fourth outfielder, but he's almost guaranteed not to be a likable third outfielder.
WHY WE WILL ANYWAY: He cowrote the Federalist Papers, and every dollar the Cardinals don't have to spend on a fourth outfielder who can play great defense and get on base a little is a dollar they can spend on the player who is consigning him to the bench. If pressed into service on a full-time basis he probably wouldn't hit much worse than Harold Ramis did last year, although the only thing we have to suggest his defense would be as good—I have the distinct impression that he was drafted as a defensive "tweener"—are a year and a half of minor league numbers.
ADAM OTTAVINO
WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT HIM: His career minor league ERA is 4.15, and his career minor league BB/9 is even higher. In the high minors he's basically been Todd Wellemeyer.
WHY WE WILL ANYWAY: He's a first rounder, so we have to think about him, up to and including the moment in which he crushes our dreams. We were only allowed to stop thinking about Chance Caple last June. In addition to that, Ottavino's always been a Stuff Guy, and not a Results Guy; this is good for him, and bad for us. lboros's expert scouting report set me back about three years, as far as forgetting about him as a front-line guy goes.
In any case, he's too good a Rule 5 pick to not put him here. He's exactly the kind of starter who gets drafted, pitches fifty innings for a non-contender in the Brad Thompson role, and spends a third of the season on a rehab assignment for Rule 5 Syndrome. In fact, if he were playing for another team, we would be including him on a list of players for whom the Cardinals should dump Brad Thompson on the eve of the Rule 5 draft.
TYLER NORRICK
WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT HIM: The Cardinals have Trever Miller and the Diner signed through 2010, so for once we don't need to worry about LOOGY free talent. He walked nearly seven batters per nine innings last year.
WHY WE WILL ANYWAY: He's probably better than Carmen Cali. Against lefties, his strikeouts-to-hits ratio was 2.5, which is awesome. His first name is Floyd, which is awesome, too.
DARYL JONES
WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT HIM: He followed up 2008's breakout campaign with a breakdown campaign, treading water in AA Springfield. He's not a good 2010 option, even though we were hoping he would be.
WHY WE WILL ANYWAY: He's DJ Tools! He runs like a gazelle! He leaps like a gazelle! He no longer hits like a gazelle! He's the top hitting prospect on a team that doesn't have any, and he's got a skill-set that's become more popular in the outfield corners in recent years. He's not nearly as MLB-ready as Brian Barton was, but somebody might grab him anyway.
BRYAN ANDERSON
WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT HIM: I don't think anybody's thought about him since last March.
WHY WE WILL ANYWAY: You remember Charles Cutler, who we all watched fly up the prospect lists this year with a great high-average low-power season in the low minors? Bryan Anderson is five months younger than Charles Cutler. Anderson was rushed through the system, but until going down with injuries this year he had displayed his one tool, hitting for average, at every spot. So far he's stuck at catcher.
He probably shouldn't be Molina's back-up this year, if the Cardinals have any long-term plans for him—because he's still only 23—but he's interesting enough at a position where offense is at such a premium that if keeping him on the roster were contingent to, ah, keeping him on the roster, some club would do it.
FRANCISCO SAMUEL
WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT HIM: Adam Ottavino's career walk rate, which is a concern, is a little more than half of Francisco Samuel's walk rate. I have nothing else to say about that.
WHY WE WILL ANYWAY: It takes exactly two good weeks for our opinion to change about middle relievers, and the Cardinals traded every single righty relief prospect who was ahead of him on the depth chart before 2009.
MARK HAMILTON
WHY WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT HIM:
WHY WE WILL ANYWAY: After threatening to join Mike Ferris in the annals of great college sluggers who didn't do anything in the Cardinals system he was nearly as impressive as Allen Craig in an abbreviated season spent between AA and AAA. It seems like we've been thinking about Hamilton a lot longer, but they're the same age, and Hamilton's hitting prowess is less BA dependent. He might be the most underappreciated player in the Cardinals' system.
If something were to happen to—no. No. For the Cardinals Hamilton will never, ever, ever, ever play regularly, ever, don't even consider the possibility, but for another team in the Rule 5 draft he could be Chris Shelton.
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FISTULA!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 7:28 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I never knew there was something called
the anal crypt… But I feel like I’m a better person for knowing that.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all about the philanthropy, man.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great ice breaker for chicks at a party. . . . I say, my good woman, did you hear the latest about. anal crypts. . .
We can all thank Monk for that sure fire line. . . .I’m less certain about the accompanying graphics. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Nov 20, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fistulae, fistula, fistulae, fistula-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have been singing this in my head all morning :-|
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a classic!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
catchy tune
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Y'all Ain't Right....
:=8P
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Nov 19, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
for once, I agree with the cow
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Nov 19, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda hate you right now...
Correction…I absolutely hate you right now.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 19, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you were holding out for the illustration with balls?
or….
vexed, you aren’t photoshopping something, are you?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not touchin' that.
Not a chance in hell.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 19, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what she said.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
there was a worse one
but I thought it was arguably a bit too unpleasant. I think an illustration from a medical textbook is fairly tame for this version of the meme, really!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your text only has female parts?
though I suppose for some members that’s arguably educational.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your text only has female parts?
though I suppose for some members that’s arguably educational.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SBN'd
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Monk strikes again!
+1 for originality on that one. It was about the last thing I thought I would see but I really should not have been suprised. Made just start laughing.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 19, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, this is out of line and has to stop now
That is all.
by apack on Nov 19, 2009 8:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing you are talking about the pictures and not Dan's article?
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 19, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, of course
&!%$@% SBNation logon inefficiencies! I entered that as a reply to the ‘orrible meme, but it brought me back to the main comment page when I had to logon to post. I thought about posting that clarification as well, but decided it wasn’t necessary…
by apack on Nov 19, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you might be...
…reffering to the picture in the article that implies that Pujols is hung with a Lipizanner not just like a Lipizzanner. Could you imagine what the womem would think…
by BigJawnMize on Nov 19, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...
…hung with a unicorn. I missed the horn.
by BigJawnMize on Nov 19, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing you are saying
&!%$@% SBNation logon inefficiencies!
and not
[censored]Fuck you azruavatar![/censored] SBN logon inefficiencies!
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 19, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is there not a robot app for deciphering cartoon profanity?
they really should’ve included that in the factory settings.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually I appreciated your comment...
as obviously I should have posted that clarification directly. SBNation’s idiosyncrasies are definitely annoying though.
by apack on Nov 19, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing you are saying
actually I appreciated your comment…
and not
I like to have tea parties with my teddy bears and stuffed unicorns.
Just want to make sure we’re on the same page.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 19, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I jsut spit coffee on my keyboard
that is all
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Nov 19, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like to have tea parties with my teddy bears and stuffed unicorns.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually appreciated your comment.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well this has now gotten much more amusing
My daughter sometimes has tea parties with her dolls and bears, but I’m rarely invited despite the fact that I really like tea. It would probably be more interesting to drink hard liquor with robots though — I wonder if she would be willing to play that instead?
by apack on Nov 19, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sometimes it takes terrible, terrible things to bring out the best comments on VEB
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Nov 19, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought azruavatar would appreciate it
by apack on Nov 19, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A little burbon in the sippy cup
never hurt anyone.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 19, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
[I should have gone with whiskey since I can spell that correctly.]
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 19, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought maybe you just liked really cheap liquor.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i always bring a flask when i go the bar.
The best I ever did though was bring a broom to a Cardinals game for a sweep and filled it with booze.
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 20, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you've told us.
Pretty funny.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 20, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bourbon, not burbon.
Just sayin’.
But yeah, kids these days grow up fast.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 3:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball?
I came here to read about your personal losses, Dan, not about the rule 5 draft. Clean it up.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 8:58 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Well
All my life I’ve been vying for my mother’s approval. I always have searched for a woman to hold me and love me unconditionally and when I do find her, it always seems so empty in the end. Anyway, that’s kind of like our situation with Allen Craig. Not sure how, but it is.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Nov 19, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, that's like our situation with Allen Craig???
No, your MOM is like our situation with Allen Craig!!! Ha, BURN!
Oh, that’s….. kinda what you…… nevermind.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you surprised at my tears, sir?
Strong men also cry. Strong men also cry.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Nov 19, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep your salty man-tears to yourself....
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Nov 19, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the people I care about always leave me abusive comments.
I don’t know what it is about me, but I’ve never been able to do anything except recommend them to other people.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 19, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's the ones we hold most dear that can do the most damage to us
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps leaving Pete Kozma off of the 40 man roster
is a personal loss for Dan. How can you be so insensitive Fritz?
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or is that a personnel loss?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WORDPLAY!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Somewhere
an angel SIUE professor just got their wings tenure.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 19, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
You sir would have gotten a gold star
But since I don’t want to muck up my screen a rec will have to suffice.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
annnnd green
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha. You said "Pete Kozma"!
That’s a draft selection that still baffles me. A 170 lb shortstop that struggles to hit his weight. Did they sign him because of exceptional defensive skills? Wish I knew more about the reasoning behind the selection. We passed up a lot of talent for him – namely the big Seton Hall kid, who reminds me a lot of another Seton Hall kid who had a few good years with the Cards.
by Matt Bug on Nov 20, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jay is overrated
His contributions to the Federalist Papers were only of minimal importance.
by dccardsfan on Nov 19, 2009 9:08 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
don't overlook
that he was the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. Maybe that got him on the 40 man roster.
by jjray on Nov 19, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Mark needs to change his name to Alexander.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And get him rubbed out by
Aaron Burr Harang when he finally has his one-on-one duel? Nah.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 19, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"rubbed out"?
That was the best phrase you could come up with?
And, in a related story, this week marked the 5,000th performance of the Broadway musical "Cats." It also marked the 5,000th time a guy turned to his wife and said, "What the hell is this?"
by jd is legend on Nov 19, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no but it was the funniest...
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Nov 19, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Al Hamilton
is probably the most important non-President in American history. More important even than Ryan Franklin, who was known to his friends as Ben.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 19, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Him and Don Knotts, sure.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hamilton is pretty awesome
Not only did he basically run George Washington’s presidency, but he nobly died in a duel with an enemy of the Republic. No, I will not tame my romantic ideal of his death with your “historic evidence” and other such nonsense.
Also, if the ten dollar bill portrait is accurate, he was clearly the best looking founding father, at least in his youth.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But, can you make a mushroom out of his head, like Washington?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 19, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually the Hamilton dollar bill art online is kind of disappointing.
I did find this awesome Flickr gallery though. And my current favorite dollar bill alteration:
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sweet.
That should be mandatory on the 20 from now on.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 19, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol til i cried.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Nov 19, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Rainbow Brite was pretty funny.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually have acquired a Chief Justice John Jay baseball card
My hope is that John Jay will make the St. Louis Cardinals and have a baseball card, so that I can display both in the same card plaque.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is that from the wierd Topps series that has players and all sorts of other random "things?"
I remember reading about that on Pat Neshek’s website (an interesting place to visit if you’re into card collecting!).
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know what? I have no idea.
I got it and a few others at a garage sale. I don’t even know the company.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it's Topps
I found it on ebay.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I found some too. Very awesome, if random.
John C Calhoun definitely would have been one of those colorful 70’s pitchers, with his crazy hair.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love how it says "Jurist" on the card.
That’s an awesome touch.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've always thought James Maddison had more upside
although I wonder if his flyball tendencies would hold him back in the Cardinals organisation.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One d.
British people. Coming over here and misspelling our founding fathers’ names.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
awesomer.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And, yet, Madison was British.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weren't all the founding fathers?
or at least most of them?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Nov 19, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll tell you what they were--
They were patriots.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You'll never take our freedom!
oh, wait…..
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 19, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
British?
None of the major founding founders were born in Britain.
Washington (Virginia) ** Swung a mean stick
Jefferson (Virginia) ** First switch hitter in the Colonial league
Hamilton (Caribbean) ** First latin player to make it to the Colonial league, said to have terrorized the bases his first few seasons in the show
Adams (Massachusetts) ** Never made it past a minor league team in Quincy, MA; Abagail made him quit the sport upon marriage. No loss we are told.
John Jay (NYC) ** One of the original Yankees, he was a utility infielder who sometimes saw moppup duty on the mound. Although later a respected jurist, he was villified in his day for the Jay Treaty that failed to unify American baseball with British game of rounders. Some believe Jay’s failure was a direct cause of the war of 1812.
James Madison (Virginia) ** Could not play the game so his wealthy father bought him a team to help his son feel important in life.
The one revolutionary figure who jumps to minds as having been born in England is —
Thomas Paine (Norfolk, England) ** Known as the original heckler fan. Got under even Washington’s skin when he was at the plate. Best remember for his catch-phrase, “Give me baseball or give me death.”
by jjray on Nov 19, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
This is great.
Technically they could be called British though since the colonies were British at the time. However they would tell you they were American.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I was getting at :)
They were born in what was techinically British soil at the time, until they turned it into American soil.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Nov 19, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a "Jesus was Jewish" type argument
by brackenthebox on Nov 19, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
little known fact
Jesus was an atheist in his teenage years. Kids that age just love to wind up their parents.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"I won't listen to you, Father!
You don’t even exist!"
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a few years later
he ended up following in dad’s footsteps in a misguided attempt to “prove himself” to his Father
by brackenthebox on Nov 19, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well he was...
but yes, they were (past tense) at one time british citizens.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Nov 19, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They were all British until July 4, 1776, correct?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My biggest point is what they would call themselves.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prior to 1776?
I bet most would have referend to themselves by the states they lived in more than the empire they belonged to, so you are correct there.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Nov 19, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was one of their points.
Was that they didn’t feel a part of the mother country because Britain just left them alone. They were allowed to develop their own personality and then all of a sudden the King wants their money and they don’t have anything to say about it and they don’t even feel like a part of the country.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with Hugo
Jefferson clearly believed Virginia was his “country”. He envisioned the United States as a confederation of sovereign countries. Even up to the civil war, major figures such as Gen. Robert E Lee also referred to Virginia as his country in written correspondence discussing his decision to resign from the United States military and take a post in the Confederate army.
by jjray on Nov 19, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
are you saying that the War of Northern Agression
was faught over states’ rights?
we can’t be discussing politics, you know.
by _pistol_ on Nov 19, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they just called themselves Gentlemen.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Hamilton was born in Jamaica?
Either way, he was a terror on the basepaths. I think he was probably the most dynamic/exciting founding baseball father.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that is still the Caribbean, but it's not latin
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jamaican me crazy
And, in a related story, this week marked the 5,000th performance of the Broadway musical "Cats." It also marked the 5,000th time a guy turned to his wife and said, "What the hell is this?"
by jd is legend on Nov 19, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it was a joke
Hamilton was born on the island of Nevis in the British West Indies. He had fair skin and blondish / red hair. Both parents born in England.
by jjray on Nov 19, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know it was a joke
I was just trying too hard to be funny… it kind of backfired. My bad!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GINGER!
No wonder he was never president.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jefferson was a ginger.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He wore a wig of shame.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We
have a pretty good track record of electing presidents with souls.
Moz=Bad GM
by Dave Barry on Nov 19, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JFK looks pretty gingery in certain photos
Depends on the lighting though. Maybe he had ginger highlights.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Coming out of hiding to say
Patrick Henry (Virginia) was known for the phrase “Give me baseball or give me death.” Tom Paine was more known for his Common Sense approach to the game.
The rest of that was awesome, tho. =)
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
by il rosso on Nov 19, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's also the state motto of New Hampshire, isn't it?
Best state motto ever.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly modified by a prominent native NHer to
Give me baseball or give me luggage
by brackenthebox on Nov 19, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and I think it's actually
“Live free or die”, but whose counting
by brackenthebox on Nov 19, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always assumed it was inspired by it
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Little known fact:
General Stark stole that turn of a phrase from Chris Carpenter in 1808. Later, Chris Carpenter would have that very phrase branded on Ray King’s ass.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jesus was jewish, but who's counting?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Nov 19, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We wouldn't have had to read about him in history class
if it weren’t for the East Coast bias.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Nov 19, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Marbury vs. Madison biotch
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Nov 19, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is the great John Marshall.
Has anyone else noticed how pretty much all of the Founding Fathers should have their own Dos Equis commercial?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't always have a beer after defeating the most powerful empire on earth with a small army of farmers,
but when I do, it’s Dos Equis.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Nov 19, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Imagine Ben Franklin's Dos Equis commercial...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow that reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABFQ-T3uAVI
And, in a related story, this week marked the 5,000th performance of the Broadway musical "Cats." It also marked the 5,000th time a guy turned to his wife and said, "What the hell is this?"
by jd is legend on Nov 19, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yea it was
screwed the pooch on that one
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Nov 19, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Marbury had a way better jumper...
and head tattoo. Not much of a baseball player though…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Go With Madison...
….there was a cute late 80’s porn actress called Madison…
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Nov 19, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No Founding Father is as totally rad as George Washington
This documentary proves it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Washington didn't almost electrocute himself
FOR SCIENCE. For me, that’s the kicker. Even if he got the stupid charge convention wrong.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 19, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard motherfucker had like 40 goddamn dicks
And, in a related story, this week marked the 5,000th performance of the Broadway musical "Cats." It also marked the 5,000th time a guy turned to his wife and said, "What the hell is this?"
by jd is legend on Nov 19, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He made love like and eagle falling out of the sky
Killed his sensei in a duel, and he never said why.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Between three and five. Hamilton, on the other hand, would have a bright future on this rubric . ..
at least until he faces a player named Burr. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Nov 20, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A good chuckle in the morning always feels good
Makes the ultimate lull period in baseball entertaining. We aren’t even talking about bench players anymore, we’re talking about future bench players.
I’m so ready for FA to start…..and Boras/Holliday to wait until February to play everyone—-including the Ham Fighters—-against themselves and each other. Then Holliday’s acquisition of a midsized Caribbean Island Nation for his winter retreat from New York/Boston provokes AverageFan’s™ dey took errr jobbbbbs type response to a defense-oriented/free LFer. This leads to a thread that starts with “damage in the 2-hole” jokes but ends up in a 2500 post bitchfest explaining the risk in projecting 25M of value 7 years from now, the concept of team aggregate production and debunking protection to newbies…again, which then ends up in our nightly dating advice at 11 PM when someone finally makes a “protection” joke.
But it’s time for me to stop watching boxing on youtube, no matter how excited I am for Mayweather-Pacquiao, and get WACCed by 2PM.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 19, 2009 9:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pacquiao by UD.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No chance
the size disadvantage is too significant. Mayweather 8 rounds to 4.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 19, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that's the conventional wisdom - Pacman has beaten (and made look very ordinary) much bigger guys in the past
I realise it’s a huge step up in both class and mass, and PBF will be impeccably prepared and Pacman might struggle to breach his defence (expect he’ll clinch quite a lot if Pacman gets inside, too) and reach, but I’m just not convinced PBF’s ever fought anyone CLOSE to being as fast as Pacquaio. Also, last couple of years I’ve learnt that whenever I think someone’s going to be too much for Pacman, he always seems to blow that idea out of the water.
I think it’ll go the distance but, either way, I actually wonder if it won’t be a slightly disappointing fight.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is true
Pacman has beaten (and made look very ordinary) much bigger guys in the past
But we’re talking about someone who is bigger and, arguably, just as fast as Pacquiao. Regardless, that’s a boxing match I buy the PPV for.
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 19, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, definitely
I can see it not quite being a fight of the year contender, mind you, but it’s fascinating stuff.
I suppose I like the look of the recent comparison of the two vs Hatton and De La Hoya. Pacquaio spanked them both, whereas Hatton lasted much longer in with Floyd (at an uncomfortable weight, and with a poor gameplan) vs Floyd and DLH nearly beat him (SD). I agree Mayweather’s the favourite, I just have a sneaky feeling that Pacman might be even better than everyone thought….
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The DLH/Hatton success/struggles
Are the same as Mayweather dismantling Marquez after a 21 month layoff while Pacquiao fought to a steal of a draw and then a war with Marquez. The difference was weight.
Mayweather fought DLH weighing 150 and DLH weighed in at 154—-DLH cut too far down to 147 for Pacquiao (look at the difference in DLH’s body from the Mayweather to Pacquiao fight!)…and Hatton it’s simple stylistic differences—-a defensive fighter getting a KO is still impressive.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 19, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
You could say the same with regard to Pacquiao facing Mayweather’s speed seeing as how Floyd probably has the fastest hands, or at the very least reactions, at welterweight pretty much ever. I’m not too caught up in Mayweather’s size advantage, Pacquiao has more than enough power and now we can say chin, but I like Mayweather in the fight a lot given his unbelievable ability to counterpunch before the other guy even has a chance to recoil. Even if/when he cuts off the ring, Mayweather’s roll on the ropes is almost psychic how he’s able to avoid clean shots.
It’s a great matchup on so many levels and Pacquiao obviously has a great chance, but Mayweather has to be the favorite if it’s fought at 147. In any case, I’m sure I’ll get favorable odds for the people who follow the Mayweather struggled with De La Hoya/Hatton→Pacquiao killed them thinking.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 19, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
goddammit
I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE!!!! Why don’t you leave me alone?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
(sniff...)
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whatever
I’ll take Eckstein.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
While I mostly agree
I think Floyd’s counterpunching in this matchup is really going to be put to the test, because Pacquiao is much, much quicker than anyone he’s fought before, and his counterpunching is one of the things that put him a level above everyone else that he’s fought so far.
After watching Manny in his last two fights, I’m also really impressed with how well he can take a punch for a guy his size. I don’t see either of them getting knocked out, so I think it’s going to come down to how many punches Pacman can land without getting knocked around on the counters. Floyd is so good at avoiding direct punches that I think that will be his main advantage, but I think Manny is quicker than Floyd so it will be interesting to see how Mayweather handles this since he’s never really had to handle it before.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus the judges
PBF landed much cleaner shots than De La Hoya yet somehow one judge saw it 115-113 DLH simply on activity and not actual effectiveness.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 19, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mayweather is prone to disappointing fights
because he just does what he has to do to win. maybe pacman can piss him off in the ring and we see some high octane, but floyd’s a pretty cool customer, ruthlessly so.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 19, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After seeing what he did to Hatton
I wouldn’t bet against Pacquiao against Ali
And, in a related story, this week marked the 5,000th performance of the Broadway musical "Cats." It also marked the 5,000th time a guy turned to his wife and said, "What the hell is this?"
by jd is legend on Nov 19, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After all the posturing and minds games
Holliday will end up signing a one year contract with the Chunichi Dragons. He’ll end up falling in love with a smart, beautiful and sassy (for a Japanese woman, anyway) young reporter, who is actually the manager’s daughter. Despite a rocky early relationship with his coach, whom he calls “Chief” (first sarcastically and later affectionately) they eventually bond as Chief helps Holliday regain his all-star form after struggling early in the year.
In the process they’ll end up teaching each other a lot about culture, baseball, life—and themselves.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Additionally
Matt Holliday’s tenure with the Chunichi Dragons will be in 1941 and shall be played out against the backdrop of Pearl Harbour and the American entry into the war. It shall additionally serve as an allegorical mirror through which the mistrust and fear of the population of both sides can be seen.
There’ll be a mutual option for 1942, as well.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and additionally
turmoil amidst the turmoil, holliday discovers tendrils of japanese roots that his family has hidden for generations.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 19, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you all realize this was just a play on the Tom Selleck movie "Mr. Baseball"
I’m not nearly clever enough to make this stuff up on my own.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 3:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't know that
i was still working on the story. i had holliday, after discovering his japanese ancestry, suddenly developing a speech impediment that prevented him from properly pronouncing his own last name (the double L).
horrified at first, his performance suffered, but rebounded as he accepted his condition as only natural given the circumstances. the two (bat and impediment) so endeared him to the population that they formally petitioned to adopt him as their own.
of course matt was conflicted…to be continued.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 4:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
This is probably a better story than Mr. Baseball already.
I wonder just how good someone of Holliday’s caliber could be playing in another country.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
to gain his loyalty
a yakuza leader commissions an enormous, godzilla-like statue of matt in downtown tokyo, built entirely of legos (the invention of which occupied the best japanese scientists, then munitions factories were converted for their production, a little-known fact in the downfall of japan)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the plural of lego is lego
because lego is an adjective
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 20, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a noun
in japan, and of course the “L” is pronounced differently
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rego my Matt Horriday!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought it meant "play well"?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 23, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In a world where Adam Wainwright can win a gold glove...
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Vitiligo.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
More of a rejuvenator.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it swam in sosa's pool
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 19, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A little off topic here
But just wanted to see what everyone thinks. For some reason I got to thinking this morning about the whole Holliday/Boras thing and came up with an idea. Being that I am a vengeful person and also happen to hate the way Scott Boras does business, this is how I would handle him if I was Mozeliak. I offer Holliday a good contract….say 6yrs/110M, and tell him he has 2 weeks to accept it. After that the the contract goes down to 6/95. This accomplishes two things: 1. It holds Boras’s feet to the fire. Imagine if a team offered you 110M, your agent says “Oh I can get you way more, don’t listen to them” and then no other team goes over 100M. Can you say FIRED!?! and 2. It makes it so we don’t have to drag our feet all offseason waiting to find out if we re-sign him and by that time possibly pass up on other options that would then be too late.
What do you think? I think Boras, being the same type of person I am, would tell the Cardinals to F-off. But oh how great that would be if he (publicly) “lost” his client money because of his stubborness.
by Cardsray on Nov 19, 2009 9:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
When does the exclusive window for negotiating with your own FAs close?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have two weeks
so I think it’s pretty much done.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we're pretty well off topic already
Aside from that I think the Yankees or Sawx would jump at the chance to get Holliday for 6/100, that negotiating tactic could very well backfire on the Cardinals PR should someone get him for 6/110 or cheaper then. It’d be a “wait, so you had his value pegged at 6/110, then when you had the chance to get him for 6/110 you didn’t do it? DeWallet iz da cheapzzzz!!!” and it would actually be justified. Fake ultimatums that you can break typically don’t work very well because if the deal is right after the ultimatum passes, you look like an idiot any which way you go about it. You either break your ultimatum and look like a fool for making that in the first place, or you pass up a good deal.
Plus Boras could very easily spin it that the original 6/110 offer wasn’t even real to begin with…and if the Cardinals are willing to go 6/95, the big boys would be willing to go 7/110 for Holliday/SB to save face.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 19, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I think the last point you made about how Boras can spin the Cardinals offer is why Mo/DeWitt actually haven’t provided one yet. I feel that they do not want their offer shopped to other teams as the “starting point” and would rather see what actual interest is out there first, before stepping in with their dollars. I’m assuming that they have one or two offers (different year/$ configurations) that they’re willing to go with, and will offer the appropriate one once the market has been defined, hopefully by other teams.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Nov 19, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As a fan I could support...
coming out to the media with one of the following two plans after walking out (publicly) of a meeting with Boras and Holliday.
A) If after talking to Holliday, the Cardinals ascertain that Holliday is more concerned about years than $ value per season (as long as it’s reasonable) this:
6 years, $108 million ($18M/yr) for 1 week.
5 years, $90 million ($18M/yr) for 1 week.
4 years, $72 million ($18M/yr) for 1 week.
3 years, $54 million ($18M/yr) for 1 week.
2 years, $36 million ($18M/yr) for 1 week.
1 year, $18 million for as long as it takes until he signs.
B) If after talking to Holliday, the Cardinals ascertain that Holliday is more concerned about $ value per season (as long as it’s reasonable) than years this:
4 years, $80 million ($20M/yr) for 1 week.
5 years, $85 million ($17M/yr) for 1 week.
6 years, $90 million ($15M/yr) for 1 week.
7 years, $95 million ($13.4M/yr) for as long as it takes until he signs.
by stlfan on Nov 19, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's in any way workable
for a whole gamut of reasons.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about if a gun and hostage were included?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 4:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fire up the van
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 20, 2009 7:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ditto
In the biz world (baseball included), setting a deadline for a deal is not a preferable tactic. It essentially closes the window of opportunity. A skilled negotiator tries to keep the dialogue going and tries to gain more leverage by any means possible as the discussions continue.
by Matt Bug on Nov 20, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A thought on the Holliday contract
I’ve been watching this story develop. It’s looking grim. If I had to pick a team today, I would guess he goes to the Mets. However, I thought of an approach that might work well in both the Cards’ and Holliday’s favor. What about a short term high $ deal? Similar to the one Manny received last year. Say a lucrative two-year deal. Maybe a player/club option for 2011. Why? Holliday’s still young. I see no reason his numbers will decline dramatically over the next two seasons – especially in the Cards lineup. (Any sabre students who disagree, jump in now with the numbers, please.) This would allow the Cards to take a solid shot at the championship in the short-term, while allowing them financial flexibility in the long term. It would also give Holliday another shot at that mega-$, long-term contract in 2011 or 2012. Another selling point to Boras/Holliday is that we’re in a recession. The payoff for Holliday in 2011/2012 could very well be better a year or two from now. I know the NY team will always have big $, but perhaps they will offer even bigger $ a year or two from now. At that time, other teams may be able to afford to jump into the bidding war as well, which would benefit Boras’ client.
He’s probably going to sign a very lucrative long-term deal with NYM this off-season. But what do the rest of you think of this idea? Just a thought.
by Matt Bug on Nov 20, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boras does not believe the recession is real
he thinks everyone is profiting.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 20, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i wish i lived in his world
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am waiting to see who will be
exposed on other teams rosters. I am still hoping that we can draft a backup catcher out of the rule V draft
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 10:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
no holliday (or rosy)
= jay/craig in left?
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Nov 19, 2009 10:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's interesting, but,
I don’t think that we would see an all-rookie platoon. My bet would be Craig and a lefthanded FA.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jay sucked a fat one in AAA last year
no way I want to see him starting for our major league team this year. I think he’s a quite marginal talent, tbh. Probably a 4th OF.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You'd have probably said the same thing about So Taguchi,
after his minor-league career. And we all know how that turned out. (No, So Taguchi’s success in no way relates to what Jay will do in his baseball career. I just linking to stories about the 2006 postseason and the unlikely heroes it gave us.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know he wouldn't fit the 'platoon w/ Craig' mold
but Marlon Byrd may be someone to look into. I’m as skeptical as anyone for someone coming off a very strong contract year (doubled his HR in only 24 more games than 08), but he has consistently provided good defense, seemingly would play a corner OF spot (which Cameron may not) and play it very well, and shouldn’t cost too much.
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Nov 19, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be open to a reasonably cheap Byrd
I am, however, very skeptical that he could move from Arlington to Busch and even sniff 20 HR. He’s kinda up-and down with regard to his OBP, as well (and actually had a worse year, in wOBA terms, in 2009 than he did in 2008, mainly because his OBP took a nosedive). He doesn’t walk much, so I think his effectiveness is prone to peaks and troughs as he’s very BA-driven.
Nice glove and I think he’ll be slightly above-average in a corner spot, but I’m not convinced he’s a huge upgrade over Craig. I could live with him in the 2-hole vs LHP, too.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
valid points (and concerns)
I just think he might be an agreeable alternative to Cameron (4 years younger, fairly comparable defense and offense, and could be cheaper on the yearly value, but may take more years to sign him).
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Nov 19, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Cameron's a better defender
but actually, just looking at them, you’re right – their offense is very similar. In fact, you could make an argument that Byrd may be better (although I think playing in Arlington last couple of years has helped him pad his stats). One’s more a contact hitter (Byrd), one’s more a TTO guy (Cameron).
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I like the platoon option in LF (either DeJesus or Hinske with Craig) but you could very well be right that Byrd’s a better option than Cameron, if he can be had for only one year. My concern would be him blocking Craig long-term and becoming a bench bat, which might not be the best use of $5-8m (or however much it costs to land him) for the next few seasons.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the Hinkse/Craig platoon
With the rest of the money spent on starting pitching and a reliever
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Should get us the very best FA option of either
although I don’t want Lackey (rather have Harden, personally). I could go Hinske, Harden, Smoltz, Wagner and maybe a backup IF this year. We should have the cash to do that, and no long term deals either!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
replace harden with sheets
and make that backup IF tatis and i’ll sign the papers.
the dejesus option is also good.
the cameron option has dropped to third for me, and the holliday option has staggered to fourth (i hold out hope for crawford, and only the holliday deal would effectively squelch that possibility)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 19, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interestingly,
Byrd has shown a weak reverse platoon split each of the last two seasons, so maybe he would be a worst-case scenario of the big side of a platoon with Craig, although we’re kind of building a platoon bass-ackwards here.
Also, Byrd appeared to have a bad defensive year by the metrics, FWIW.
I like him better than Xavier Nady, but that’s not saying much. I think that I greatly prefer Mike Cameron.
I think that Byrd is arb-eligible, too, and I suspect that the Rangers would offer him arbitration. They did last year, at least. Surely he’s not a Type A, though.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 19, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please enlighten me
Nobody seems even remotely excited to see what Allen Craig will do at the ML level. Is this just feigned stoicism? I mean, I understand the knock on his defense. I also understand that he strikes out alot. But the guy had an OPS of well over .900 last year and he “plays” a position where we are likely to have an immediate opening. His minor league numbers are better than Chris Duncan’s and, while I hesitate to utter his name around these parts, he certainly made a splash for a while in St. Louis (and I can’t image Craig’s defense is worse than Duncan’s).
Somebody explain this to me. Why am I not supposed to be excited about having Allen Craig on the horizon?
by Cardaholic on Nov 19, 2009 11:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would venture that it's mostly just restrained enthusiasm in the attempt to be more realistic.
Plenty of people here are interested to see what Craig can do, but I personally just try to tell myself that the Chris Duncans of the world are the exception, not the rule. Also, Craig has to actually make it to the ML club before can actually play there, and it’s still kind of hard to tell what the chances of that are. Though, I think either Dewitt or Mozeliak had some nice things to say about him, recently. So there’s that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he was the org's minor league player of the year last year
which, I presume, along with Mo’s recent statements, suggest he’s very much on their radar.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That certainly seems true now
I think most opinions were formed while seeing Joe Thurston standing near third base on a regular basis and Craig not getting a shot at third in the minors.
by brackenthebox on Nov 19, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Straight, no chaser, Sir. I think John Gall and Jim Journell were also players of the year. . . sigh
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Nov 20, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're obviously not a regular reader
because I’d say there’s quite a lot of excitement (and anticipation) on this blog to see what Craig can do. So, GO CRAZY EVERYBODY, here comes Allen Craig!
Personally, like Dan, I’m happy for him to be a platoon piece/4th OF/corner IF/OF backup guy in his first year and maybe try to get him 300-odd PAs. Adjustment to MLB pitching can take a while, and he doesn’t have great plate disclipline, so (whilst he’ll hit for some power) he might struggle a little to get on base at first. It’d be nice to give him the best chance of succeeding by giving him as many PAs as possible against lefties.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, his statement made me laugh
not excited!? His MLE against lefties is like an .850 OPS. Just need to find a lefty on the other side of the puzzle.
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I did a frickin' photoshop!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I Still Get....
….Craig Allen and Allen Craig cowfused…
:=8(
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Nov 19, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sometimes Ethan Allen commercials throw me off.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alan Thicke does the same to me
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Quite the opposite
I’m here every day. You may remember me for such posts as “We need you, Bobby Abreu.”
And I must say, the take on Allen Craig is predominantly low-key, with the exception of some stong proponents (particularly areound September call-up time). I was wondering what I was missing, so I’m glad people are now expressing some excitement.
I am at a complete loss as to what to do with this team offensively this year. I would really like to see us bring in the best non-type A back-of-the bullpen candidate and a solid starting pitcher. Beyond that, I’m not sure the free agent upgrades out there are worth it on a full-time basis (just decent platoon options). Therefore, I’m pretty damn excited to see what Craig and Freese can do on a less-than-full-time basis. It feels alot like 2008 when I was looking forward to regular Luddy/Skip/Spaceman time.
by Cardaholic on Nov 19, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3165 comments since 2007 doesn't seem that low key, in my estimation
The majority is this year’s.
For perspective, the search “Brendan Ryan” — thus, the pre-Boog instances — yields 1610 comments.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
artificially deflated due to the number of Ryans on the team
Poor Boog.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The last thing I'll say on the topic
I’m not saying he isn’t discussed. I’m simply saying that I perceive the general tone of the discussion to be, well, luke warm. If I am wrong about that, great. After all, I’m the one who’s excited to see him.
Your response and the Monk’s are indicative that I may have misread the temperature.
by Cardaholic on Nov 19, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just sayin'... the group overall leans to the droll
with a lot of dry irony. excitement on VEB can sometimes be measured by how much one doesn’t say a name….
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, it's theoretically possible
that our desire for a certain player could even, in an extreme circumstance, become so emotionally unstable that we collectively suffer a delusion where we don’t even admit said player’s existence. I would think a player would have to be traded away in a deal that went tragically wrong for something like that to happen, though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
unpossible!
a player like could never exist!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Han Daren, dammit.
Just say it! Face your fears!
by Cardaholic on Nov 19, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clam Baren?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no no that's Clam Russmoose
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Baron of Clams?
Sounds like a stinky fighter pilot.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 19, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd even be up for saving some of the FA $ this year and spending them at a later date
if that’s an option that DeWitt would accept.
I think we can add a couple of platoon guys (or maybe even one plus a backup IF with a little pop like Tatis or someone) for <$10m, we can focus the rest of the cash on pitching. Realistically, the free-agent market is better on that side of the ball this year, AND we can upgrade easier there – any bullpen or starter we sign will likely be replacing a true replacement-level option (our 5th starter or, say, the Thompson/KMac end of the pen), whereas we have likely 1-2 WAR players internally to hold down 3B and LF, so signing a merely league average player to one of those spots really doesn’t gain us much.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IF that's an option that DeWitt would accept?!?
AS IF!!!
/stltoday’d
Matthew, Mark, Lugo, and John.
by BVHeck on Nov 19, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how excited should we be about craig?
actually i was thinking about this yesterday and started compiling a list of recent defensively marginal OFs and their offensive AAA stats in Memphis.
in lieu of doing real analysis, i’ll let the masses try to guess who’s who?
player C is an aggregate of 2 AAA seasons. The rest are full seasons in Memphis prior to call up.
by _pistol_ on Nov 19, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a trick question. They're all Stavinoha.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That one chair got hit a lot.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what... uh.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking E is probably Mather
is F Freese? I remember him OPSing .900+ in 08.
C’s 30 dingers has me perplexed. I really can’t remember anyone hitting that many for Memphis in recent years. Although, it IS split between two years. Maybe Colby, although I don’t think he’s defendively marginal. Hamilton? I suppose I’ll guess Colby – or could actually be Craig?
I’m thinking D could be Stavinoha – decent average but limited walks or power; maybe BABIP driven. That’s probably 2008 as well.
B has the highest walkrate and pretty good power with a low average. I can’t think of anyone like that in recent years.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that chart needs a fanpost
SBN causes shrinkage
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i tried to do it right, but
SBN tables are my nemesis.
by _pistol_ on Nov 19, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
damn you SBN
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A = ?
b = Studwick?
c = Dunc (over 2 years)
d = Stav
e = Craig
f = Ankiel?
by Cardaholic on Nov 19, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmmmm...
A: John Gall
B: Chris Duncan
C: Joe Mather
D: Nick Stavinoha
E: Allen Craig
F: David Freese
You missed Ankiel’s 31 homer season prior to his call up in 2007: .267/.314/.568/.883. If only we’d paid a little more attention to that OBP number we would have seen what was inevitably coming.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can use fangraphs too ;-)....
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I got em off the homer numbers without looking them up.
All except John Gall, who was a total blind guess.
I knew Ludwick wasn’t in there because he didn’t play a full season at Memphis prior to being called up.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah I'd realised that Luddy wouldn't be there
Gall I forgot, basically. I figured out C = Mather afterwards.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally forgot John Gall.
Does he sell insurance now?
by Cardaholic on Nov 19, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was on the list of minor league free agents posted yesterday
the Astros let him go. I’d totally forgotten his existence until then, and now he’s reared his head twice in as many days!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Before I examined the table, I was sure Ank would be on there,
but none of the OBPs looked low enough,
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Nov 19, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. Funny because it's true.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly why I figured he wasn't on there too
and the fact that he had hit 31 homers before his call up.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my point is:
Should we be any more excited over Craig than Mather or Freese?
I should have included the player’s ages too.
by _pistol_ on Nov 19, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the list doesn't really make me too Allen Craig-crazy
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan and Mather were good until they got hurt, and we don't know what Freese'll do, yet
it’s also relevant to consider their relative ages. Craig is 25. Stav was 26 and driven by a lucky BABIP (with less power & patience), Gall was 27, I think.
Also, Craig’s numbers there ARE the best of anyone.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I might say that Craig vs. Freese is a wash there, but good points.
Freese is older than Craig, right? Either way, it’d be nice of both of them had a higher walk rate… but if they did they probably would be much better prospects to begin with and we might not even be having this conversation.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Freese is a year older I believe
but he’s also been around longer and struggled to get out of the minors, Craig’s made pretty smooth progression and hit at every level. I still remain convinced Craig is probably the best non-Mather OF hitting prospect we’ve had in the last couple of years.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that is my thought also
Craig has hit everywhere he has ever been in the minors
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'll have to check this
but, IIRC, freeze gave up baseball for a year or two (i think two) out of high school, then got the itch to play and found a college, so his age is a little deceiving in terms of knocking around the minors.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 19, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
B is duncan
F is stav
A is jay
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting question
Why am I not supposed to be excited about having Allen Craig on the horizon?
I honestly don’t know, but I have a few ideas:
- The organization just doesn’t seem too excited about him either, which makes me think that the front office (or the scouting department) doesn’t believe that he can be an above average major league hitter. I don’t have any idea if that’s true, but if it’s not, why are they not boiling over with anticipation for him and giving him every shot to make the major league roster or get a call up the past two seasons?
- Nick Stavinoha has put up similar numbers as a right handed hitting outfielder with questionable defense in his minor league career, and if you’ve watched him at the major league level, he just looks completely outclassed. He’s your classic AAAA player: Too good for AAA, not good enough for the MLB. There are more of these guys at the corner infield and outfield positions than we’d care to admit, including highly touted prospects like Andy Marte, Brandon Wood, and Dallas McPherson, who just annihilate AAA pitching and look lost at the plate in the MLB. I think Craig looks the part more than Stav does, but I’m not a trained eye, so I refer back to #1: If he’s such a good hitter, why isn’t anyone in the organization excited to give him a chance. Why doesn’t anyone who looks at minor league hitters for a living, (like John Sickels, Baseball America, etc.) get excited when talking about Craig? The first favorable impression I’ve seen of Craig is Sean Smith’s PECOTA projections for next year that just came out last week. Considering how accurate they’ve been in recent years, that gives me a little more of that warm fuzzy feeling than I had before.
- I’ll be honest: To me, he’s on the Casey Blake career track if he’s any good (majors and minors. Nobody ever wanted to give him a chance, he kept hitting at AAA, took advantage of a bad corner outfield and third base situation in Cleveland, and he’s put together a nice career after age 28, when he nearly hung it up for good (I’m friends with Casey’s older brother Pete, and he really thought his career was going to end up like his brother Ben’s career, who played in AAA for Cleveland for years and never got his shot, then was named all conference playing linebacker at Division III Simpson College at age 30). I don’t think that Craig is as good as Blake at 3B, but I think he’s a better outfielder and they probably have similar talent on offense. I think he could stick around in the majors for quite a while if he can be a 20 HR hitter with a .340ish OBP, the question is whether he can do that.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Casey has a brother?
his organization has now betrayed him too? Obi Wan was wise to hide him.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has three brothers actually
Ben, Joe, and his younger brother Pete. Joe is the only one that didn’t play pro baseball, but he holds a ton of passing records at Simpson College as a QB. Amazingly talented family top to bottom.
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, duh, I think I actually knew this
looking at the all-siblings teams in Baseball Almanac. cool.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not sure
that the org’s not high on craig, as opposed to the Free Allen Craig sentiment, which i once shared. but i’m now reconsidering their handling of this prospect.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 19, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bill DeWitt Jr called Craig an Elite hitter
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
i’m thinking more that they’re (and have been) handling him with kid gloves as opposed to they don’t think highly enough of him to give him a callup. Likewise, klobby could have made the team out of spring training in 08 based on performance, but they were thinking long-term interests, let him develop for best chance at success. so maybe they’ve taken it slow with craig because they really, really value him.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 3:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or they are doing some game theory
and they are hoping they can trade him for zach greinke, if only they talk him up enough.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
by SleepyCA on Nov 20, 2009 3:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not sure one quote constitutes
talking him up, but if they ramp it up in the coming weeks then i’ll assume greinke is headed our way (but mo secretly wants dejesus and is taking greinke just to net his prize)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 4:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He did it at work.
It’s dumb, but it’s kind of like that woman who got fired because a blogger started posting the emails and addresses of people who sent him death threats. Her husband had sent it from her work account, meaning she (and presumably the PD troll also) was screwing around on the company dime.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Nov 19, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
are you kidding me?
Most people here post from work. This is such an over reaction it is mind blowing. He breaks his own terms and services. It sets such a bad precedent. I hope he gets fired from STLToday from all the blow back. He will find the full power of the streisand effect
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say I agreed with it,
but this happens on a regular basis (for instance, the other example I gave).
Also, it said he resigned on the spot when he was confronted- that’s not enough to conclude he was fired.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Nov 19, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This kind of crap happens all the time.
http://www.mister-info.com/?cmd=displaystory&story_id=11063&format=html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29796962/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28424059/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/
“Facebook Fired” even has its own urban dictionary entry:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Facebook+fired
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Nov 19, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
those are all much worst than what he did
not even the same category for me
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he resigned on the spot
I’m guessing there was some other browsing/posting going on that meritted the decision
/baseless_speculation
by brackenthebox on Nov 19, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The best kind of specultation.
I heard he was a racist, too!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh it gets better
He asked what the strangest thing anyone has ever eaten before. Of course people are going to put pussy in the comments. What a dumbass.
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What's so strange about that--wait, bad idea. Just, never mind.
This post does not exist.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's probably donezo, from the user agreement:
"We will not share individual user information with third parties unless the user has specifically approved the release of that information. In some cases, however, we may provide information to legal officials as described in "Compliance with Legal Process" below. "
I would not have gloated about this publicly.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 19, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i hope he sues them
that’s pathetic.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ooooo you can almost feel him squirm in the comments
Someone called out the user agreement:
Second, I did not reveal any personal information. I didn’t have any to reveal and I wouldn’t have if I did. I informed the school about the comment. They already know their own IP address.
That can’t be a good feeling realizing you might have just cost yourself your job by bringing up your own dick move.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 19, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So I just saw his home info being posted on the internet
Now people are starting to call the STLPD number to say he should get fired.
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like Joe Thurston is watching me
Free Milton
by all4tookie on Nov 19, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The PC Police have to be stopped
These pussies are getting out of control.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 19, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly OT: Cy Young?
I hate to say it, but they are probably right. I’m prematurely angry that Lincecum’s going to win, even though I understand he’s as deserving as Carp and Waino.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Nov 19, 2009 12:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's more deserving.
Look at it like this: If Waino or Carp were on the Giants, and The Freak was on the Cardinals, who would you want to win? I’d be outraged if Tim didn’t win and he was on my team.
In reality, if Tim doesn’t win, I’ll just be annoyed for him and pleased that at least a Cardinals player won.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not what you meant, clearly
but if he was on the Cardinals, he’d be the runaway winner with 20+ victories
by brackenthebox on Nov 19, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which just furthers my point, really.
Wins are team-dependent to the degree that we’re even discussing this. Timmy should win.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Carpenter and Lincecum had almost identical run support (5.84 to 5.83, respectively), so I’m not sure its certain he’d be a 20 game winner with the Cardinals. He just would have had a few more chances because Carpenter was injured for part of the season.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Nov 19, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Waino lost more than a few "wins" due to bad relief, too
it wasn’t just the last one.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was mostly being facetious
but what if you gave him (or Carp for that matter) Wainwright’s 7.07? Projected wins wouldn’t be my metric of choice regardless, so it was a silly comment on my part to begin with.
Lincecum did the things that a pitcher has control over better than anyone in the NL by a long shot (FIP). You can say he had slightly worse results vs Carp based on ERA, but the disparity is mirrored in the 20 point difference in BABIP, a statistic over which a pitcher has very little control. If nothing else, the 4 extra games started push Lincecum over Carp on my ballot (I’m still waiting for that, by the way)
by brackenthebox on Nov 19, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think carp would've
walked away with it if it weren’t for waino mucking it up by pulling the most first place votes. they probably got the order right, but i was hoping 1 and 2 would be reversed. in the end swinging a bat and the resultant dl stint cost carp the cy.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 19, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But...but...
The Cy Young Predictor has him in 3rd!
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 19, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Errrr....
4th.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 19, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Cy Predictor has ever been that far off.
Assuming Lincecum wins. Since 2002 I think the winner was always first or second on the list.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Nov 19, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps this means the voters are getting less moronic.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Nov 19, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Acronym for his organization?
Very Obnoxious yet Totally Awesome dudeRaghead Simpletons?
by thepainguy on Nov 19, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
vexed steeeeee-rikes again...
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Every once in a while somethin' I put together turns green.
…it’s how I measure my real-life worth.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 20, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a vicious cycle to get into, isn't it
I used to have a normal life. I knew I had hit rock bottom with my green addiction when I found myself wearing all green clothes, drinking green beer that I had saved from last year’s St. Patrick’s day, popping greenies that I bought off a hooker I like to call “Green”.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't quite as good as the real thing
but if you ever need a cheap thrill, I’ve got your hookup. Here’s a taste:
by brackenthebox on Nov 20, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What do the World Series and a polar bear on birth control have in common?
THEY CAN’T HAVE CUBS!
Albert Pujols does not have “down” years. He has “~6 WAR” years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 21387943298789321 recs
Lemme know
there’s plenty more where that came from
by brackenthebox on Nov 20, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What the SBN is going on with the rec'd comment above this?
21,387,943,298,789,321 recs. Can’t reply to it, it refreshes the page. Strange.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan F. Ludwick
by RiverRat on Nov 20, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How did you do that?
Did I really make that comment? What’s going on, I’m so confused… I just need a little green to get me through this, just one time and then I’ll get on with my day…
Mmmm…. greeny…..
….
[Passes out on chair]
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its a comment inside a comment by bracket
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 20, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the duece?
Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation
by azruavatar on Nov 20, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I still do not understand this at all.
Hence, he’s a witch.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's using HTML to make it look like
he made a comment, you made a comment, followed by another comment by him. The fact is, it’s all one comment. The “bottom” comment by bracken has the real time stamp and everything.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 20, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
He’s a Witch.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 20, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks spants, ruin the magic
I’m surprised SBN allows as much HTML in comments as the do. From what I can tell, pretty much anything not involving a div or a span is fair game.
by brackenthebox on Nov 20, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I figured it was HTML or something like that
but Fritz’s explanation didn’t really make any sense.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"it's a comment inside a comment by bracken"
perhaps the typo threw you?
by brackenthebox on Nov 20, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
guess you met Timmy, huh
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 20, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gotfuckingdamnit
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bye Bye Puppy Kicker
Royals have a deal with Brad Thompson
by creativereason on Nov 19, 2009 12:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Of course they do!
How did I not see this coming?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
facepalm!
we should have thought of that!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was kinda hoping Brewers
Imagine going from Suppan and Looper to Thompson and Mulder.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish him the best of luck.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 19, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pitcher whose only quasi-weapon is a sinker + an infield of yuniesky betancourt and alberto callaspo = comedy gold
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Thompson had it all.
A bizarre photoshop meme, a…pitch, and he was part of the manliest man stew around, until he was DFA’d and signed by the Royals…
Now, Brad Thompson is on the dead last team in the central division where the pitchers don’t hit; does he have what it takes to carry this bunch of scrubs out of the cellar and up to the penthouse? Or will his failures lead to the greatest puppy massacre since the puppy shoah?
Brad Thompson is…
Dayton Moore’s Latest Acquisition
Coming in April, 2010
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Nov 19, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Rob schneider is...
…A CARROT
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 19, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
…A STAPLER
Matthew, Mark, Lugo, and John.
by BVHeck on Nov 19, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his failure to grow a stache was his undoing
he started in 06, but the regression to shaved in 07 set him back.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
annnnd green
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hadn't he just lost a game pitched against the Royals when he made the puppy kicking comment?
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
by andi_k on Nov 19, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
....it's the circle of life!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's almost like going back to AAA!
We all come from the minors, and to them we shall return
(with apologies to pagans)
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
by andi_k on Nov 19, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
kick the hell outta the KC pups PK
kick the hell outta them all
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry tries to outdo Mo...
2/$6.5 million for Franklin? Hah! 2/$7 million for Grabow (!)
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Nov 19, 2009 12:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mo:
“Touche, Hendry. First, Miles; now, overpaying for relievers. You have yet against one-upped me, but I shall have my day. Our Holliday contract will out-albatross your Soriano contract.”
Hendry: “Yeah, right! Mua ha ha ha ha!” (Goes back to petting his pet bill goat.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Radio in Chicago this morning called him
an 8th inning guy. This could end up being funny.
by sdrone on Nov 19, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm laughing. for real.
hopefully no one walks in so I have to explain
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I told my Cubs fan friend this
His response, “Are you serious? Aw, what the fuck.”
by mojowo11 on Nov 19, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is like when they signed Marquis
and… all those other times.
those cubbies. always giving.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't he exec of the year too?
MLB awards are a funny thing
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Nov 19, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness
no one else entered their name in the competition that year. At least that’s how I imagine those awards work.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NL Les Sweetland Award Winner
Joe Posnanski does a bizarro Cy Young, named for one of the worst pitchers of the Deadball Era, Les Sweetland. A primer can be found at the beginning of his post on the awards. The NL winner is none other than Manny Parra. Here is a taste as to why:
Manny Parra, though, had the toughest year of the bunch. Parra was probably best known coming into this year as the guy who got into that shoving match with Prince Fielder in 2008. He pitched pretty well in 2008 — but struggled mightily in 2009 though he did become the first pitcher since 1938 to win more than 10 games with an ERA higher than 6.25. He went 11-11 with a 6.36 ERA.
Manny Parra’s line vs. the Cardinals:
5 GS / 27 IP / 2.33 ERA / 1.296 WHIP / 21 SO / 14 BB
The Cardinals’ line vs. Manny Parra:
114 PA / .212 BA / 1 HR / 6 2B / .307 OBP / .303 SLG / .610 OPS
So, against the rest of MLB, Parra was Les Sweetland; against the St. Louis Cardinals, he was Cy Young.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
a painfully awesome fanpost
would be for how many pitchers that’s true.
Wandy almost doesn’t belong because of the wicked curve, but there’s Wandy. Uh… what was that kid’s name, Richard?
Quick, someone name all the soft tossing lefties in the NL!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moehler
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moeller's like 38 or something
he’s hardly a kid.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, unclear
three somewhat unconnected thoughts … I couldn’t remember someone’s name in paragraph 2.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't merit a fanshot, but interesting nonetheless
new pitching hiring strategy?
Origin: [1275-1325]; Middle English < Anglo-Norman French < Old French < Late Latin; carpentarius artifex or wainwright, equivalent to Latin carpent(um) two wheeled carriage ( < Celt; cf. OIr carpad chariot) + arius – ARY
Carpenter name variants and backgrounds
* Wright – Woodwright in old England. Such as a “wood wright” (wood worker). See also “wain wright” (a wooden wagon maker) – See Wright and also: Wainwright (name).
* Carpentier – From the French Norman Carpentier (le Carpentier, le Charpentier) a worker of wood.
* Charpentier – Carpentier and Charpentier in French. A worker in wood. French Surnames > CARPENTIER ++, Forme norm.-picarde de Charpentier; var. du Sud-Ouest et roussillonnase Carpentier. Avecart. Le Carpentier.
* Zimmermann – Zimmerman in German. A worker in wood.
* Carpenterio – Carpenter in Spanish. A worker in wood from the English word Carpenter.
* Carpender – Carpender an English phoentic name variant of Carpenter. Also seen as Carpendar.
* De Carpenter or De Carpentier – “the carpenter” in Dutch, a worker of wood, from the French Carpentier.
* Timmerman – Carpenter in Dutch, a worker of wood, from the German Zimmerman.
Meanwhile:
Piñeiro
This English, French and Italian surname was a topographic name for someone who lived by a conspicuous pine tree or in a pine forest. The name was rendered in Medieval documents in the Latin form PINUS.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So we get pitchers who are descended from wood experts
Since wood is their enemy, and in war one must know his enemy.
Odd that Carp’s and Waino’s names are so related… odd and totally awesome!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so, who are we trading to the nats for Zimmermann (pitching edition)?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
splintering/sawing bats
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 19, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Pineiro = Near the pine? Riding the pine? Reliever?
by thepainguy on Nov 19, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it could be one or the other
But keep in mind — Brendan Ryan’s middle name is Wood. Thus, Boogñeiro.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
piniero
descended from a wood nymph and the keebler elf
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Which Keebler elf?
There’s more than one, you know.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 3:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, i know there's seven dwarves
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 4:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting. Where did you find this?
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
by andi_k on Nov 20, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
uh, wiki.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 20, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wikied. I must have a poor search strategy.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
by andi_k on Nov 20, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Woodie Williams?
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What time is the CY announced?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
oooooohhhhh...... suspensful...
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is correct.
I was misinformed.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awards show starts at
12:30 Central (1:30 Eastern)
by saladdays on Nov 19, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there's a show?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Captain Morgan awards show!
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
so that wasn’t a joke. This is actually happening.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. Get out yer spiced rum, matey.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ARRRRRRRR!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ARRRRRRRRRRRRR1001010011101001010010011101010100101!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 19, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A robot pirate? I don't know if the world is ready for that.
What’s next, ninja vikings?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, spants, you are amazing!
I was just about to post that I would like to see a ninja viking and, boom, there it is!
by cardsgirl95 on Nov 19, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's also this:
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
spants is bringin the jpgs!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If only he had a Wizard Robot Spartan sidekick.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The whole world's gone mad, mad I tell you
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish you weren't a liar.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know. I'm out of control.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
View it live on mlb.com too
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Nov 19, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Item of note:
A photo by none other than MomUp made it into a BaseballThinkFactory photo captioning contest.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 1:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wtg momup!
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah momup!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3 Steroids related captions and counting....
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
aw.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Love that old Mariners hat.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just realized
That the two LL teams I played for that used ML uniforms were the Mets and the Yankees.
Ew.
by mojowo11 on Nov 19, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I always played for a team named after a major league team
T-ball: Giants, A’s
Coach Pitch: Royals
Little League: Orioles, Cardinals (hooray!)
Junior Babe: Red Sox
Babe Ruth: Diamondbacks (hehehe our uniforms were purple)
And, in a related story, this week marked the 5,000th performance of the Broadway musical "Cats." It also marked the 5,000th time a guy turned to his wife and said, "What the hell is this?"
by jd is legend on Nov 19, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not I...
…Little League – Juniors: Geller Farms. (Orange jerseys with a pig silhouette)
…Little League – Seniors: MarkFore (Red jerseys with corporate logo)
…Softball – RAM-League: Juggernauts (Whatever I wanted. Named after the DeMarini bat)
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Nov 20, 2009 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i never got to play little league
my family really does hate me
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, the award isn't being announced until 1pm Central?
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured that would happen.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Nov 19, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i wish you were a liar.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
This is taking forever.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what she said
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now why did you have to go
and ruin it like that? A man needs to have some delusional fantasies to keep him going.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who does he play for?
I didn’t even know he was in the running.
by thepainguy on Nov 19, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you missed the point
/points at Linecium and wonder’s who that is
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
by StLHugo on Nov 19, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no i got it
i misspelled his name
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hung up the Christmas wreath and took out the recycling while waiting.
Most productive I’ve been in a twenty minute span in a long time.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
are people watching this?
this guy is dressed like Captain Morgan and using words like “swashbuckling.” This is ridiculous.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Nov 19, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've recently tried to switch from Blue Moon to
Captian and Diet….don’t get nearly as drunk frownie face
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Nov 19, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So Anthony Reyes and Brian Barton were both released
Sign them and Chris Duncan. I just filled 2 OF spots and a starting rotation spot
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 1:51 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
MIND BLOWN
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sign barton and reyes but forget lil dunc
"A great catch is like watching girls go by the last one you see is always the prettiest."- Bob Gibson
by CodyG on Nov 19, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A story at MLB.com says Lincecum won
even though the official annoucement hasn’t been made yet.
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 19, 2009 1:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Tim Lincecum’s been reported as this year’s winner, a fact also learned by an MLB.com reporter. No official announcement will be made until 2 ET.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bizzaro nexdef'd???
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not really nexdef'd
just happened minutes ago
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
right, so the opposite of nexdef'd, hence the bizzaro.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That wasn't very clear
Here’s what it says at the MLB main page: “Tim Lincecum’s been reported as this year’s winner, a fact also learned by an MLB.com reporter. No official announcement will be made until 2 ET”
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 19, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The headline still says could.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're tellin me there's a chance?
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's always a chance.
But I’m thinking no.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
Nice picture.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
> puts on defensive "ah, these awards are all stupid anyway" helmet <
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
please, there's still "who didn't vote for any of the three of them" skewering
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who at SBN thought red on dark gray be easy to read?
by thepainguy on Nov 19, 2009 1:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
These guys really fucking like Captain Morgans.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
how does captain morgan do it? does the peg leg throw off the balance?
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Nov 19, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think only drank Captain Morgan when I was underage
Captain and Coke was minor choice of drink
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Live action Captain Morgan. Unbelievable.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"He is Captain Win-wright."
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Captain Win-wright.
Clever.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WWL is announcing it in seconds.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wanna see Timmy!
…and there he is striking out Albert. Damn you, WWL.
TEN POINTS separated the top three on the ballot.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet Waino would of won
If he just would of had 20 games
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and Ludwick.
damn you, WWL.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
damnit!!!
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Nov 19, 2009 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
F&&$*CK!!!!!!!!
Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth.
by RosevilleRedbird on Nov 19, 2009 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well that was anti-climatic.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Nov 19, 2009 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
if i had a nickel...
something, something, something
by _pistol_ on Nov 19, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What she said?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Best man won.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
naw
Carpenter was the best man. And would have won if he didn’t miss so many games.
by Evilfrog on Nov 19, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Best man, sure.
Better pitcher? Not this year.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree
you can look at stupid metrics but the bottom line is he had more WINS, fewer LOSSES, lower ERA, and lower WHIP than Linc………Carp should have won.
by Matty I on Nov 19, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All of those stats aren't indicative of the best individual performance.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
if you give up the fewest baserunners and fewest runs per 9 innings, that makes you the best pitcher
so what if another player misses bats more…he gave up more runs and more baserunners.
by Matty I on Nov 19, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess i'm just not a "stats snob" like some who want to use these new metrics.
by Matty I on Nov 19, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very original, thought-provoking stuff here.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lincecum is up there trying to strike every batter out
And doing a good job at it. But Carpenter and Wainwright are not trying to strike everyone out. So of course he is going to strike out more people.
I hate how strike-outs and k/9 have become one of the main metrics for measuring how good a pitcher is.
by Evilfrog on Nov 19, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
Strikeouts are so cheap.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with you, evilfrog
for the most part.
comparing maddux to johnson careers and declaring johnson the better pitcher because of strikeouts would be similar, imo, and analogous to comparing two .950 OPS guys and saying one is more valuable because he hit twice as many homers as the other.
i don’t have any problem with timmy winning, but i don’t think it was a no-brainer. if i had one game to win this past year i’d’ve chosen carp, and if i had a 5-year contract to hand out it’d go to timmy.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yay stats we hate unless they help our argument!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wins, Losses, and the best pitcher.
So-called “wins” and “losses” really don’t have anything to do with who pitched better on a given day because the classifications are so team-dependent. I’ll quote Joe Posnanski:
Before I begin, I should probably explain quickly to those who have missed it that I cannot stand the pitcher’s victory as a prominent baseball statistic. I quote victories more often than I should because they are inescapable. But crediting the pitcher for a victory has always been somewhat absurd and also — as Crash Davis said in Bull Durham about strikeouts — fascist. Why would you give one guy a "victory?" A pitcher has only so much control over how many hits/runs he allows, and he has almost no control over how many hits/runs his team scores. If a third baseman hits three home runs and makes two great plays, shouldn’t HE get the victory?
As ridiculous as the pitching victories thing was in the 1970s and before, when pitchers threw complete games with regularity, it’s even more ridiculous now because they don’t. Starting pitchers generally go five, six or seven innings … why in the hell should they get a VICTORY for that?
And, yes, Carp’s rate stats are lower, but by how much? Lincecum’s 2.48 ERA is very low, and he did it over thirty-some more innings pitched than Carp. And Lincecum’s WHIP is .04 lower, which is an eyelash. While we’re on rate stats, Lincecum struck out 10.4 batters per nine innings. Carp struck out 6.7. A strikeout is an out 99% of the time. It’s the surest way to be an effective pitcher and Lincecum was surely dominant.
It’s a close contest, without question, and I was actually pulling for Wainwright to win, because he is my favorite Cardinal pitcher, even if he was the third-best pitcher in the NL this season. If I had a vote, I’d have voted Lincecum first because he was the most dominant starter in baseball this season, and he threw ~ 30 more innings than Carp. Is it a slam-dunk case? Not at all. But that doesn’t mean that Lincecum is undeserving of the 2009 Cy Young, in my opinion.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
posnanski picked lincecum
but said carp was just as deserving and it wouldn’t be an upset or crime if he won, and i think most consider posnanski pretty level-headed and insightful.
i’d campaign for lincecum for every award every year if he spoke only latin, at least in public
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
waino came in 3rd despite having most 1st place votes
go figure
Carpenter probably deserved it more than Waino, too
by Matty I on Nov 19, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My vote would've gone Lincecum, Carp, Wainwright.
Surprised Waino had so many first-place votes. Upended Carp’s chances.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this seems emblematic of our season
stop at first, Boog.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably what he said, actually.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on what team she's batting for.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 19, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
She probably isn't as concerned with that as he is, if you follow.
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But she's pretty freaky, so you never know.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You never know.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 19, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The BBWAA has it's own website?
Commences pulling out manual on how to send a DDOS attack*******
Please consider any Hot Stove talk in the above comment is spoken under the assumption that the Cardinals are not signing Matt Holliday.
by fourstick on Nov 19, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously?
what were the final tally’s
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Wainwright had the most 1st and the most 3rd place votes, but very few 2nds
Maybe that’s the split between the voters who just want to see wins (1st place) and the ones who looked at the more sophisticated stats (3rd).
by BTown Birds fan on Nov 19, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What a Rip...
:=8(
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Nov 19, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are the voters getting smarter...
or is this just a fluke?
Neyer’s predictor was off by a lot for the first time in a while.
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Nov 19, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the game has just past Neyer by???
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure if you're kidding...
That predictor is a reflection of how the voters have voted historically and it has been extremely accurate. That it missed this year in both leagues might indicate the voters have now changed their approach.
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Nov 19, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I was kidding.
I mean maybe about 5% of the stuff I say on here to be taken at face value and not as a sarcastic statement.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they just said that on WWL
Jayson Stark struggled not to call them idiots. lol.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Posnanski thinks this year is a turning point.
And I hope he is correct.
Every so often in this crazy sports racket, you can’t help but feel like the conversation has changed ever so slightly … and changed for the better. Zack Greinke won the American League Cy Young Award on Tuesday. More than that, he breezed to the award. He was named first on 25 of 28 ballots. He was the runaway winner.
And he did it with only 16 victories.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 19, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how is greinke a good example
fans who’ve never looked at a stat knew he was the best, and then there was his story – it’s pretty mainstream when WWL shows highlights of his every start and says, “…might not have most w’s, blah, blah, blah, but best pitcher in baseball” If somebody in the league had 25 wins, he simply would have won with a 5 FIP and 100 k’s or whatever, but without even the cachet of a 20 game winner it seems nonsense to talk about greinke winning “with only 16 victories”
same in the nl. how are voters getting smarter? it’s tim fucking lincecum – he wins this thing ten years ago too. it’s timmy the freak lincecum. if he had the same numbers and was a journeyman pitcher just having the year of his life, then carp takes the cy, this year as well as ten years ago.
there’s a lot of snobbery involved in thinking saber stats had anything to do with picking greinke or lincecum. the WWL touted them all year. after the fact you can use the numbers to support the selection of each, but i doubt those same numbers were what got them the votes – there’s nothing advanced about strikeouts, era, IP, etc.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this post was fun to read in a drunken slur.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 20, 2009 1:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AND I TELL YOU ANOTHER THING...
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if you think writers' knowledge of advanced stats
had anything to do with greinke and lincecum winning, fine and dandy. i’d bet if you polled non-baseball fans as to the best pitcher in each league you’d probably get the same winners
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 4:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it does speak to a devaluation of the win
I don’t think it says anything about the voters caring about the advanced stats
by brackenthebox on Nov 20, 2009 7:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who the fuck didn't vote Greinke first???
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
someone didn't vote Greinke first?!
A WITCH
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 20, 2009 7:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3 witches then
And they’re all bad witches.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
did they say something like double double toil and trouble?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 20, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh wonderful
I was praying Waino or Carp would win just so I don’t have to hear the award referred to as “Cy Bong” ever again.
by Mulliganstew on Nov 19, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is almost one of those "statistical ties"
Wainwright got the most 1st place votes, but Carp and Lincecum had way more 2nd place votes than him.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hm. Does that count as a "nexdef'd"?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to know...
why they have this crazy idea of voting for anything other than 1st place. It seems to me you’re either the best pitcher that year or you’re not. Who really cares about being the 2nd or 3rd best pitcher?
/rant
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because
The Golden Gloves are voted on like that and see how ridiculous they turn out?
by Mulliganstew on Nov 19, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those second and third place finishes can get those pitchers extra cash.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure if you're a good pitcher
the market will take care of you. You don’t need a 2nd or 3rd place finish to get your money.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Wainwright finishes in the top five the next two years
the Cards have to pick up his option.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Send him to the pen til May 15!
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Nov 19, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't take contract incentives into account...
Fail on my part.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fail on his agents part for not having 2009 included in that.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
unless he has Tommy John surgery or something
I bet they were getting picked up regardless
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly hope so.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
still not a good answer
if there wasn’t a second or third in the first place then it couldn’t be used as a contract incentive – the horse goes before the cart.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Nov 20, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean his cheap option?
Darn!
Now with extra feisty!
by spants on Nov 19, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was $20m?
in that article that was posted yesterday. That seemed pretty steep to me, too… Better check cots.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I've always had a big problem with that too
The only reason to have a voting scheme like that is to make it possible to win with “points” instead of just getting the most “winner” votes. I can understand in some way why that would make sense… in years where one guy is universally considered one of the best, but there is wide disagreement on who is actually #1 I can see an argument for giving it to the guy everyone agrees on. And that guy would have to win with points, by being high up on everyone’s ballot. Still, I agree with you, it’s kind of unnecessary.
I don’t even know who I would vote for here, I really don’t have a problem with Lincecum winning it. Though Vasquez probably deserves more recognition than he got.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 19, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Johnson too.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and maybe that other guy, .
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
f'in sbn
I typed a bunch of space between , and . – I guess it “assumed” I didn’t mean that. Bah.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 20, 2009 4:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know who you're talking about
That guy, it’s on the tip of my tongue… don’t tell me… damn it, now it’s gone.
What were we talking about again?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we're like the best team with nothing to show for it
hopefully everyone doesn’t tighten up in ‘010, because that was a good start of somethin’.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Namely a playoff win...
sigh
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boog, Colby, Luddy, Piñeiro
I guess Albert will get his hardware. and I think Frankie’s was stats-driven.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jebus
I forgot Skip.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People seemed to think Waino should of won or been 3rd
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Wainwright
2.
3. Wainwright
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Nov 19, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Profit?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 19, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Win-wright.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Nov 19, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just in case anyone wondering
1st: 5 points
2nd: 3 points
3rd: 1 point
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 19, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That takes all the fun out of
setting up a system of equation or matrix and figuring it out if you didn’t know to start off with… Thanks for ruining all the math nerds fun…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
by ducttape16 on Nov 19, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs