Putting UZR to the Test
by tom s. on Oct 31, 2009 7:14 AM EDT
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PrintFirst off, can I start by saying that chase utley is the second-best position player in the NL? This should not be a surprise, but apparently utley's talent came as a great shock to numerous national broadcasters and sportswriters this week. Last week, I'm not sure you could have gotten 30 percent of them to vote for him as the most valuable position player just on the phillies.
My aim this week is to start a series of posts about defensive metrics. I have a few simple thought experiments to look at their effectiveness. UZR (as the primary tool available to us) is probably not as well understood as it might be. I know that many posters are skeptical of UZR, others want to take it with a HUGE grain of salt, still others probably buy into it as a matter of faith rather than rigorous evaluation of the existing work on it. I confess that I often fall into the latter category.
In a humble moment I would like say I often learn just enough to understand the very basics of a theory. From that point. I trust that people (ones I know are much smarter than I am) are unlikely to lead me astray. The scientific method it's not.
since I'm not the kind of expert saberologist that has turned his second computer into a SQL machine dedicated to running sabr analysis, the only thing I have to offer is that maybe I can - by working this stuff through for myself - bring along others who are on the same level as I am. FYI - my sabr MO ends at the point of downloading some stats in excel off of fangraphs. I have no idea if anybody has done this or something like it before, so I apologize in advance if it's redundant.
I want to take a couple team stats and compare them today: team E-F and team UZR. UZR you are probably familiar with, even if you don't understand it well. E-F is ERA minus FIP. ERA you know. FIP you probably know too; basically Fielding Independent Pitching is an index of those pitching outcomes totally in the control of the pitcher: walks, strikeouts, and home runs. The index is scaled to the ERA scale.
If FIP is truly "fielding independent," then earned runs minus what is fielding independent should leave you . . . well, fielding. And some luck.
So, first let's try the old standby. Let's look at the teams with the lowest E-F and their corresponding fielding percentage.
|
Team |
E-F |
E-F Rank |
Field % |
Field % Rank |
|
-0.52 |
1 |
0.983 |
21 |
|
|
-0.45 |
2 |
0.985 |
11 |
|
|
-0.38 |
3 |
0.986 |
6 |
|
|
-0.3 |
4 |
0.985 |
12 |
|
|
-0.27 |
5 |
0.983 |
22 |
|
|
-0.2 |
6 |
0.987 |
3 |
|
|
-0.18 |
7 |
0.985 |
13 |
|
|
-0.16 |
8 |
0.985 |
14 |
|
|
-0.1 |
9 |
0.982 |
25 |
This looks completely random. There's no correlation in any direction, even just by an eyeball test, between E-F and fielding percentage. Out of the best nine teams by E-F, two are in the top ten teams in fielding percentage, three are in the bottom ten, and four are in the middle ten.
|
Team |
E-F |
E-F Rank |
Field % |
Field % Rank |
UZR |
UZR Rank |
|
Mariners |
-0.52 |
1 |
0.983 |
21 |
85.4 |
1 |
|
Reds |
-0.45 |
2 |
0.985 |
11 |
52.5 |
4 |
|
Dodgers |
-0.38 |
3 |
0.986 |
6 |
1.1 |
14 |
|
Giants |
-0.3 |
4 |
0.985 |
12 |
52.6 |
3 |
|
Cubs |
-0.27 |
5 |
0.983 |
22 |
-19.2 |
20 |
|
Phillies |
-0.2 |
6 |
0.987 |
3 |
29.6 |
7 |
|
Tigers |
-0.18 |
7 |
0.985 |
13 |
45.1 |
5 |
|
Cardinals |
-0.16 |
8 |
0.985 |
14 |
-17 |
16 |
|
Rangers |
-0.1 |
9 |
0.982 |
25 |
33.2 |
6 |
Adding UZR to this table, on the other hand, shows something completely different -- the top nine teams in E-F include 6 of the top 7 teams in team UZR (the Rays, 2nd in the majors in UZR, were 14th in E-F). Three outliers - with less than top tier UZR - in the top nine are the Cubs, the Dodgers, and the Cardinals. I'm not the type to give a statistical estimate on the degree of correlation. Still, I'm inclined to eyeball this table and say this is good evidence that UZR means something.
One of the exceptional teams that jumps out though is the home team. The cards have a pretty ordinary team UZR but a good E-F. Could be it's just luck. On the other hand, the cards' staff finished with the best GB percentage in the majors. Consider that UZR is a measure of defensive runs above average. So, if the balls the cards' staff put in play have a higher likelihood of turning into outs even with an average defender in the field, the staff might yet outperform the FIP without having above average defense. It could also just be luck; the Cubs and Dodgers finished with unimpressive groundball rates. I have no explanation other than luck for the Cubs' and Dodgers' staff E-F numbers. Even for the cards, my explanation is just a suggestion, a hypothesis, rather than an assertion that GB% explains the home team's appearance in the table.
E-F and UZR don't tell the whole story: some pitching skills not reflected in FIP like groundball rate may distort the results, so will dumb luck. But it's remarkable in some ways to combine a conventional run-counting stat like ERA with an advanced stat like FIP derived just from strikeouts, walks, and homers, and find a strong correspondence with a fielding stat that's measured by looking at ball trajectories on the field. The source material for all three stats are very different.
A last note, for anybody who wonders -- I used team UZR and team E-F just because they're extremely easy to work with. Team stats are a very blunt instrument; they will not give you much specific information, but they're good for finding broad trends. Trying to break down individual pitchers' E-Fs with particular defensive configurations behind them, etc. would require several guys much smarter than me and the secret 800 terabyte SABR Sam Adams-proof server farm Bill James is building under the bleachers at Fenway (I predict it will all end in tears when Papelbon sneaks into the computer room, accidentally puts a virus onto the servers when trying to download a solitaire app with pictures of naked women on the cards, and the Red Sox servers become the world's most powerful spambot, crashing internet service up and down the Eastern Seaboard). This little thought experiment has nothing to do with whether UZR properly apportions credit for good defense on the small scale, as between the SS and the 3B on the same team. The point is simply that UZR has something at its core, some real defensive truth that fielding percentage doesn't.
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It occurs to me
that the “E” in your “E-F” has already factored in a piece of what you’re trying to measure by subtracting unearned runs from actual runs. Is there any more meaningful correlation with RA-FIP?
RA-FIP
I had this same thought. I’m not sure how it affects the numbers, but it seems like using RA-FIP be better. ERA is influenced by errors which are the main component of fielding %. Essentially more errors = lower ERA (compared to RA-FIP) = higher E-F (compared to RA-FIP) and more errors = lower fielding %. Using this back of the napkin analysis, you would think that RA-FIP and fielding % might have a higher correlation.
I’m not sure how errors factor into UZR.
Some thoughts
UZR doesn’t measure catcher defense, so a team like the Cardinals with a great fielding catcher gets no benefit from it. The studies that have been done to measure individual aspects of catcher defense show even simple aspects, like blocking balls, can have a very significant affect on runs allowed, so that should help the Cardinals some in their ranking.
This year was also a down year for Pujols with UZR for whatever reason, so that hurt some.
Schumaker was a huge negative, but he accrued most of the negative value in his first month and was about neutral the rest of the way, so that’s another positive sign for next year.
Also, relevant to the Cards good rankings in ERA-FIP:
FIP takes into account HR/FB%, and this season, the Cardinals did not give up very many home runs. Carpenter and Pineiro had particularly good numbers in that category, and that may not be that repeatable, although giving up tons of groundballs helps some. The Cardinals ballpark helps a lot, too, as it’s one of the better parks at depressing long balls in the league. As such the park and the groundballs help the Cardinals in that “E-F” rankings, not their defense. If you somehow park-adjusted the HR rate or used xFIP instead of FIP, the Cardinal’s E-F and UZR rankings would probably be more even.
Colby and Ryan were absolute dynamite defensively this year, and Albert is always gold glove caliber, but this ranking really shows we could definitely use some better defense at second and especially third. Schumaker improved over the year so maybe he’ll be fine next season, but I hope Freese or whoever we sign is a significant improvement at third because we could certainly use it.
catcher defense
I think you may be on to something with the catcher defense causing the Cards numbers to be skewed. By all accounts Russell Martin of the Dodgers is a very good, if not great, defensive catcher as well and the Dodgers have the same non-correlation between E-F and UZR. I’m not sure how good Soto or Koyie Hill are supposed to be defensively, so I’m not sure if this accounts for the variance regarding the Cubs numbers.
I have recently subscribed to the theory
with, admittedly, no real objective evidence, that catcher defence is hugely overrated and actually not as important as people think. I think that most catchers who reach the major leagues are competent defenders, and that ball-handling and throwing skills actually have pretty negligible effects. It wouldn’t actually surprise me if catcher defence is about the least important defensive position in terms of the differential between the best and the worst fielders.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2009 4:30 AM EST up reply actions
You can SAY Utley is the second best position player
but IMO, you would be wrong. Give me Hanley Ramirez for that title.
Utley’s #3, though, and if the Phillies offer him in straight-up trade for, say, Joe Thurston, I’d definitely take him.
change
Utley’s #3, though, and if the Phillies offer him in straight-up trade for, say, Joe Thurston any 2 position players not named Pujols, Molina, or Rasmus, I’d definitely take him.
i'd trade yadi to get utley
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Oct 31, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm
I wouldn’t. I think Yadi + an average 2nd baseman is nearly as good overall as Utley + an average catcher. Again I’m valuing catcher defense, game calling, etc. pretty highly here. I also think an average 2nd baseman is likely easier to find and cheaper than an average catcher. Additionally, we have an average 2nd baseman already, but would need to go looking for that average catcher (Pagnozzi being sub-par). Molina is also younger than Utley and both play positions that do not age particularly well. Lastly, Molina is a lot cheaper.
-- Aidan Sonoda
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - 4/9/09
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.
by Aidan Sonoda on Oct 31, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i have this beautiful hand mixer for that 10-carat ruby of yours
it comes with a warranty and it can make curly fries
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This
made me chuckle…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the curly fries make it special
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I'd almost go for that trade
if I could throw Thurston away in on the deal.
by StanTheManFan on Oct 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I would trade Pujols for Utley.
flame away.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2009 4:31 AM EST up reply actions
Great caption
“As long the money’s good, I can go anywhere. Not Detroit, though,”
Truer words have never been typed.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
wonder why
most would think playing for leyland, and probably some free pizza, wouldn’t be that bad
as say baltimore or pittsburgh
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Because it looks like Bosnia?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I believe so....
I’d seen it before, googled Detroit Ghetto. There’s lots more, but this is one of the most telling.
Also, I’d like to say thanks for screwing with your avatar, what kind of trend are you trying to start?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Detroit might be bad
but that is looks like a photoshop job of a South Asian slum onto the skyline of Detroit
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 31, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a palm tree.
They don’t have palm trees in Detroit.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The other images on that link look legit...
…but the one you’ve posted definitely looks photoshopped. I lived in Detroit for a couple of years in the late 90s, teaching in the metro schools, and never saw a shantytown. Lots of abandoned buildings desperately needing to be torn down and plenty of vacant lots, but nothing like what’s in that image.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
It's still funny.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I'm probably not a good judge.
I’m a little sensitive when it comes to Detroit.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
My sense of humor
does border on cold hearted bastard, however.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
that was my first thought
why would they need a shanty town when the city is packed full of abandoned houses.
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 31, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I went up for the games in 06...
got a little looking for parking… and found an empty grass lot that had a fence with razor wire protecting it… Decided stop lights would be optional if no traffic was coming until I saw some place that approximated safety.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Lots of respect to you.
That had to be a tough job.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, but it was actually a great job.
For the most part. Severely under-resourced schools, but fantastic kids who really wanted to learn and some incredibly smart and professional colleagues. I was lucky.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I want to teach in the inner city.
It’s good to hear smart and professional people are going there. We don’t hear that a lot in school. Also I seem to remember that you teach middle school or something older than first grade, so already my respect for you was super high.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Just be selective and make sure you end up in a well-run school.
It’s maddening to be in a school with bad administrators. If you ever want advice on what to look for, just shoot me an email. I’d be happy to talk about it.
I’m not sure any grade-level is more or less difficult than any other – you just have to find the one that suits your personality. Me, I like the mix of sarcasm and earnestness of middle schoolers. They’re so young, but think they’re so old. Essentially, they’re a mess, and I dig that about them.
Kindergarten and first-grade teachers teach kids how to read. That’s a massive responsibility. So my respect to you as well.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, they go through huge changes in those years.
Part of the reason they’re fun to teach.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and I should clarify...
Middle school is where I landed and felt most at home, but I taught other grades more than I actually taught other grades – so I’m no expert.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah it definitely depends on your personality.
I did field experience in a middle school last year and I was not a fan. But the teacher found out I was in early childhood and she was like wow, I could never do that. And I felt the same about middle school.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I like hot messes.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
That could give a guy hope,
couldn’t it, gdm?
no, no i don't
because hope leads to dreams
and dreams leads to excitement
and excitement leads to action
and action leads to epic fail
and epic fails leads to misery
and misery leads to depression
and depression leads to me rocking back & forth in corner of the basement surrounded by the three B’s. bacon, brownies & bourbon
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 31, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not tonight
i’m out of bourbon & too sick to drive to the store, fml
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
nah, i've had the flu all week
i even lost my voice mid week, it’s been a blast
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
No, none at all.
I guess I’m not that clever because I didn’t even think about it until you typed that.
That sucks.
If I knew how to post pics, I’d send you some soup and oj.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought you were a scotch man?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 31, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course you can.
I wouldn’t dare try to stop a man from diversifying himself. I just gathered that you had a preference for scotch is all.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 31, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If I have my druthers,
I drink Southern Comfort on the rocks. It’s way too sweet for most people but I can drink all night.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 31, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You say sweet,
but SC is the only thing that mixes with Mt Dew…IMO
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Well, anytime that I go to a bar and order SC,
everybody around me gags about it being too sweet and how they can’t drink it. I say poor them. I also like to mix it with Seven-up. It also works well with Wylers presweetened lemonade. If you mix in some grenadine then you have a Southern Hurricane.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 31, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Sloe gin + SC + OJ
Sloe Comfortable Screw.
Not a great drink, but fun to say.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Oct 31, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll let ya know later.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 31, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
soco and mountain dew.. is great
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
yup
Some kinds of messes at least – I can relate. Though, as my mother reminds me often, some kinds of messes are more appealing in kids than adults.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
this has to be at least the fourth one
I am always hoping I never see the “We’re Boned” one, because I fear he is saving that one just in case Corky ever gets traded.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i would take
hanley over utley, but no doubt that utley is top five most valuable in baseball
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I don't think Utley has a soul
I’ve never seen him smile.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 31, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
he smiles at the sight of fresh hair gel
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
sir, it's called product....sir.
Actually google image search showed something “interesting”.
He never does smile in poses for pictures in uniform. he does the fake camera smile when out of uniform for poses. however, every picture of him interacting with fans out of uniform is a genuine smile (see the bagged eyes, fake smiles do not have eye expressions)
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
I'm horrified that I'm right.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
So you are saying I just need him to serve me waffles
and he will show me the pearly whites?
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 31, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
we should call him 'Waffles'
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
One woman's opinion?
Crunchy hair is bad. Down with crunchy hair!
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2009 4:37 AM EST up reply actions
No.
if you look like Grady Sizemore or Colby maybe.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
That'll do.
But you should still avoid crunchy hair. ;)
I know Brad Pitt's last girlfriend at Mizzou
He asked her to go out to Hollywood with him, but she didn’t think he’d make it.
Ummmm....oooops
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Ouch.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
My CC baseball coach
went to HS with Brad and swore that he had an older brother that was better looking than him. Don’t ask me how it came up and why he offered that opinion about another man. . .
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
terrible sentence
swore that Brad had an older brother that was better looking than Brad is.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
he doesn't need one it appears
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
That's because
he didn’t have a good relationship with his father.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Boogñeiro!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
damn, now I'm sad we'll probably never see the symbiosis again.
but then I’d have to watch that last game to see their last groundball, and I’m not keen on doing that. damn.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Interestingly enough
The Hanley v. Utley debate likely comes down to a debate on the merits of UZR as Utley’s greater WAR values are due to his ++UZR
FWIW
I’m in the camp that UZR is good, but needs to be regressed somehow. I agree with those that state that the career (or at least weighted 3 year) numbers are clearly superior to a one year sample (even when trying to talk about one year’s performance). I’m currently in the middle of the process of trying to regress UZR with tango’s fans scouting report but I’ve only done shortstops so far
...
I agree with those that state that the career (or at least weighted 3 year) numbers are clearly superior to a one year sample (even when trying to talk about one year’s performance)
Do you really thing that? When strictly talking about performance, over a full season, UZR isn’t going to be that bad. Maybe 5 run error bars at the most. The reason you have to regress and weight is to project a players true talent fielding ability.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 31, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
On some level
If the people behind it do then I’d be inclined to agree with them. I should probably give it a little more thought however. Maybe the answer is like Sky said, just remove the decimal and the false sense of precision.
by stevesommer05 on Oct 31, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed
nice find. Unfortunately invalidates the premise of this, otherwise very thought provoking post. No points from tom s. though (in my book).
This is why Sabr stats are so maddening to me. The gulf between knowing enough to apply stats to players and truly understanding what the stats are actually telling us is enormous. The more complex stats are mathematically massaged to help us compare players, which they seem to be pretty good at. But you can’t assume they are actually telling you what the labels indicate: FIP isn’t a magic distillation of Pitching minus Fielding for instance and cannot be used as such. I’m stuck on the part of that learning curve where I know what the stats are and am willing to use them to brow-beat my fellow baseball fans about why player x is awful and player y is better… but getting to the point where I can actually defend those assertions and understand the discrepancies between stats that are intended to measure the same thing, requires a long (and math heavy) climb. I think a lot of fans are stuck somewhere on that viscous Sabr learning curve… and it contributes mightily to the perception that the stats don’t measure reality. Which is unfortunate because they do have meaning and can tell us a great deal that simply watching the game never could.
-- Aidan Sonoda
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - 4/9/09
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.
by Aidan Sonoda on Oct 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
an interesting read.
If I understand it right, though, the problem is that the skew becomes substantial at the extremes. In the middle the gap between the expected ERA and the actual FIP is very small. Since I’m dealing with team FIPs here which will be clustered in the middle, the skew should be minimal.
The article is not intended to be an in-depth analysis, just a look for corroboration using very simple stats.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Oct 31, 2009 7:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
For a better understanding of UZR
Actually understand how UZR is put together
Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR), Part 1
Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR), Part 2
That does not include the Arm or DP data info which originally was not part of UZR.
is that the old one or did they get around to modifying it?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That black hole in LF
is bigger than any other black hole on the field.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 31, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
those are the nuts
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
That chart makes
Corky and Boog look amazing.
"....Oh, hi, Boog."
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Can anyone explain to me how the Error part of UZR is calculated?
I can’t find any sources to tell me. Looking over data it doesn’t make sense.
I think it's just applying the average lwts value to each error
by vivaelpujols on Oct 31, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
put weighted against what
innings, put outs, expected outs, defensive games?
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 31, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha I find such gems
Imagine a Brad Thompson suspension.
It could take months for him to make six appearances…
that one’s hazel, after the Big Z blowup
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Speaking of Pineiro...
the guys at Cardinals GM are debating whether the team should re-sign him. They don’t answer the question themselves, but here’s my take.
The team benefited from having Pineiro, in my mind, and I think the sinker helped him out this season. I think the Cards should get him back, but I’m not entirely sure what kind of contract Jo-El would command. The folks over at CGM think it will be a 2-4 year deal worth $8M a year, but I don’t think the $ would be quite that high. What say you?
Best moment I've ever seen at a game in person
"If it was Zoom Zoom'd, we'd be doom doom'd" - making fun of myself for my bad luck streak in the 2009 season
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
i have a difficult time figuring out Pineiro FA value
I think it will get a nice pay raise though. Since he is healthy in a market full of unhealthy pitchers.
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 31, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Kyle? Kyle is that you?
it’s garbled, he must be down a well
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
3/30 minimum I'd have thought.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2009 4:49 AM EST up reply actions
no thanks
let him walk. 0% chance he repeats
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
possibly but
It wasn’t like he was just lucky. He was good because his control was excellent. If he can repeat that than he will stay being good.
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 31, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He threw a lot more sinkers and pounded the bottom of the strike zone
He allowed a shit load of contact, but most of it was on the ground. I’m not sure how sustainable those skills are, and even if I was, there would be no way of knowing how well hitters will adjust to that.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 31, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a bi-product of him pounding the strike zone more and allowing more contact
He’s also been getting slighly lucky in terms of umpire error.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 31, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
also: Boog effect
I’m very, very curious to see if he can replicate with a less than stellar defense behind him.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I think the Schumaker and Thurston/DeRosa effect evens it out
His BABIP was .293, which seems about right given his LD and GB numbers last year. I’m more worried about the HR/FB, which was only 6.5% last year. His xFIP was 3.76, so even before natural regression, we can expect that he will be much worse next year. I’d say Pineiro’s in line for an FIP of around 4.00 next year. We could do better.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 31, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
except Boog's range is into Schumaker's and 3rd base
trudat on the HRs
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
He doesn't have to be as good as in 2009 to be an asset.
Quite a bit of regression to the mean can occur and still leave Pinata as a valuable player. If he performs at a level half way between 2009 and his career average, say a WHIP of 1.24 (rather than 1.14 or 1.34, respectively), BB/9 of 1.9 (rather than 1.1/2.6), HR/9 of 0.7 (rather than 0.5/1.0), he’ll be a useful third or fourth starter, and better than Lohse was this year. Three years of that would justify a real attempt to keep him.
The real question is how outrageous a contract he’s going to get from someone more pitching-starved. If he’d settle for 3/$20M or even 4/$28M, I’d be very tempted. The free-agent market for starting pitchers is likely to be such that a “reasonable” deal like that isn’t happening.
by StanTheManFan on Oct 31, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Good intentions tom, but there of flaws to using E-F to judge FIP
A lot of what allows players to overperform their ERA’s is good timing. This year, Waino’s ERA was like .50 points lower than his FIP, but his BABIP .309. He most likely didn’t get any help from his defense, the reason his ERA was so much lower was that his strand rate was over 80%.
You would have to take the equivalent ERA of each team, based off of wOBA, and subtract that to FIP. Then compare to UZR.
Even then, you would still have problems with catcher defense and quality of balls in play (this could be avoided using team tRA).
hmm, well, the intention was to
Use some very simple statistics to try to convince folks who are not statistically inclined.
While more rigorous analysis would have yielded a more precise result, I was trying more to keep stats as simple as possible at the expense of precision.
Iagree what you’re saying would more completely describe the situation, but you would lose a lot of the readers in the explanation.what you’re describing would satisfy the readers at tht or btb. There are a lot of folks here who don’t follow those sites. I thought this might be a simpler approach.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Oct 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What?
Your approach is patently wrong. If you are testing UZR, which this article professes to do so, you can’t use a method that going to be incorrect, and report the results as meaningful.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
what i'm trying to point out
Is that the more and more refined you make your analysis, the more complex the analysis becomes. With every layer of complexity you add, more people are going to give up because the argument becomes too complex.
If you are trying to get the most precise answer, then your technique would be best. If you’re trying to convince the largest number of people, then the most complex analysis may not be best for that purpose.
Like I said, this is intended to be very basic.“Patently wrong”? I don’t agree – crude? Unrefined? Imprecise? Yes. Somehow the technique found a match among six of the top nine teams in UZR and E-F, though.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Oct 31, 2009 7:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok wait I'm sorry what?
(Insert Your Own Joke)
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Oct 31, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
leaked out?
what does this mean?? I could use a copy of it ‘leaking’ into my PS3
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
OT: any photoshop peeps
can blow up a bmp for me so it would print up 28-30 inches wide w/o losing much quality?
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
slash impossible
if it’s not big to begin with
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
does anyone remember what happened in June?
Other than Carpenter’s gem in Cincinnati and the growing foreboding about Albert being in the Home Run Derby, I can’t remember wtf happened.
Looking at the schedule, Colorado and Cleveland were touchstones (if only for the foreshadowing), and Piñeiro pwned the Mets. Surely something else happened that month?
→ Same request [large… picture warning for that thread]
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
IIRC
my bill for Franklins nearly doubled, and we reminisced about April.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
that's my problem too
probably related to no-memory-of-June…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Didn't Kaheel have
his 2 HR game against KC in June?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Correction...
he homered in 3 straight games against KC.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
yeah, he broke down again in New York, right?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Also, since I assume you are chronicling,
Apu had a GS binge some time in there. I’m sure that you are well aware of that though.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I haven't gotten there yet
he’s still slumping and we’re wondering where Dee Dee is.
also, Yadi was batting cleanup.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch.....
have a drink my friend.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
it's screwed up because of interleague
I went to one of those games, and I still didn’t take it seriously. Now I can’t remember anything from that stretch.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
They lost the series to the Indians
but there was one game in the middle when Albert single-handedly beat the Indians.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
when DeRo mentioned Carp screaming at him
I freaked out, because I couldn’t remember that game. Missed a Carpenter start, damn.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, and don't forget TLR
making the call to MO and saying: “if you can do it, get him.” re: DeRosa. IIRC that was mentioned in a Goold blog/article. Good thing he made that call, it only cost us 2 of our top pitching prospects.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
sigh.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
The Cards
are “the team of the decade” according to the Chicago Tribune’s Phil Rogers.
Best moment I've ever seen at a game in person
"If it was Zoom Zoom'd, we'd be doom doom'd" - making fun of myself for my bad luck streak in the 2009 season
Looking forward to Cardinals baseball in 2010!
It must be Halloween
because it’s “spooky” when Phil Rogers gives props to the Cards. But seriously the Cards are the National League team of the decade no doubt with the Phillies coming a close 2nd. Although if Philly wins their 2nd WS they can have a good claim as well.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!!
enjoyed reading the article, tom s… I think it did illustrate that fielding percentage is not very consistent way to judge fielding.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 31, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions
Happy Halloween VEB
here’s hoping you got lots of treats as you went out dressed like everyone’s fave LF
only a few tricks
you avoided the zombie apocalypse
you escaped the evil demons that possessed all of the cats today
you didn’t turn into a evil incarnation of yourself that scares women & children
you did something special with the one you love (or are at least in lust with)
and of course you ended your day with some delicious cake & cupcakes
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 31, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
it's just my way of celebrating this special day with everyone here at VEB
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
dude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVZobzVJrSo
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
i am home!
if you watched both of those
you’ll probably want to watch part 3 as well
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
gdm that would be tripley rec'd if I could do so.
That pic of the lemur(or whatever the eff it is) had me pissing myself dude.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 31, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
if it's the ryan braun thing
it’s a tarsier.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2009 4:54 AM EST up reply actions
i told you it doesn't pass the TUI test
typing while intoxicated
but so noted, it is a tarsier
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
again, I see nothing
why don’t I see the pics when you post multiples in one post??
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
You have an insane firewall....
they never show up when I’m at work.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
That was a great
close to over the line fist mention.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
still digging
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
SBN'd!
We’re sorry, sports fans, but something went wrong.
We’ve been notified about this problem and we’ll take a look at it shortly. Thanks for your patience.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Oh that.
That has gotten much better for me recently.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
posted on June 1, 2009
a full month before. nice going, expatcardfan…
is there some way we can do some numbers regarding facial hair vs. performance? i know there is some sort of correlation.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
why didn't you say something sooner?
i’ve been watching usc v oregon
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
I said it as soon as it started.
I think.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
HANDEGG!
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2009 4:54 AM EST up reply actions
Yankees Question
Do the Yankees often have their catcher field sac bunts? Cole Hamels just got a base hit on a sac bunt because ARod wasn’t charging and Posada couldn’t get there in time. If that’s a strategy, please don’t ever sign Joe Girardi when Molina is catching in his age 37 season.
José would've gotten it
Posie is just a whining incompetent.
This is why NL is real baseball.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Jorge thought Andy would get it and Andy thought "Fuck, I'm a pitcher. You get it."
My question is why wasn’t Alex charging on a bunt everyone knew was coming.
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Oct 31, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It looked like a "well placed bunt"
to me. But ARod wasn’t charging which threw me a little. It looked like it was bunted way too far for the catcher to get anyway and Andy just stood there thinking “I’ll just pick him off 1st with my balk proof pickoff move.” And Jorge stood there thinking “Shit, Andy will just pick him off anyway.”
It’s plays like these I want to save when someone says “Experience is key on the playoffs.”
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Oct 31, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
How close does Petitte get to the HOF?
Past the first ballot?
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Oct 31, 2009 10:25 PM EDT reply actions
Interesting question
- He’s never been the best starter on his own team.
- Won 20 games twice, but never won a Cy Young (runner up in ’96)
- 229 career wins if he retired right now (More than Pedro Martinez….)
- 16 postseason wins, mostly due to playing in the postseason 12 of his 15 seasons.
- 2000+ Strikeouts, Pedro has over 1000 more though.
I think he’ll make the HOF, mostly because of his postseason prowess. Without it, I don’t think that he gets in, just like I don’t think Schilling gets in without the 2001 and 2004 postseasons.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I think Schilling's best years are head-and-shoulders above Pettitte's
and I think Schilling is probably a HOFer, but not an absolute cast-iron one. For me, Pettitte doesn’t make it.
It’s very hard to judge in this era, however, because 4 of arguably the top 10 pitchers of all time have been playing in the last 10-20 years. For me, that sort of raises the bar for everyone else, because it’s hard to look like a HOFer (even though you might be a legitimate one) when you’re nowhere near as good as Maddux, Clemens, peak Pedro or Unit. Guys like Mussina, Schilling and Pettitte would’ve probably found it easier to scrape in in the 80s or something.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2009 4:58 AM EST up reply actions
Fox screws up the World Series again
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
HFS
It’s time for replay in the World Series. The camera is above the wall…HR or not?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Above the wall is fine
why is it over the wall?
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Oct 31, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
why isn't there a yellow line there too?
i think it would have gone over
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
AROD HR
Bud Selig just puked a little.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
that's not clear at all
until all the replays have x-mo, it’s kind of sucky
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
when they blew up the shot of the ball hitting the camera
you could tell it would have gone over if the camera wasn’t there
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
oh, not that call specifically
the cameras they use are lame. they need better quality, it’s a smaller ball than handegg and in a bigger field
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Foot ball has always made me laugh....
They’re showing the play on an 80’ screen, but they run over and look at a 4" model.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Finished cleaning my room.
I can devote all my attention to baseball watching.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Wow, Cabrera.
That was an ugly final strike.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions
I'm expressing my displeasure.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Not fun.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
come on ladies, the phillies are the bad guys here
remember what they did to Welley? remember the 20-2 embarrassment in 08? remember the D cell batteries thrown at our players? remember the lazer pointers? remember the boo’s hurled at Scotty Ro? that team, that city, those fans, they are not good, they are not noble. they are not classy. they do not deserve to win anything. they are a scourge on the soul of baseball, a blemish on this great game we all love so much.
what have the Yankees done to us? nothing. they are the class of the AL, the winningest team in the history of this great game. sure they are overpaid, sure they are over-hyped, but so what? i’d rather pull for them than a bunch a lazer pointing, battery chuckers.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 31, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
It’s been hard for me too give a rat’s ass either way, but you just put me over the top.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
fuck that
the players get the rings, not the fans.
the Yankees walkoff celebrations include elaborate pie antics, and oh why did they need so many walkoffs? were they perhaps riding on Mariano’s arm?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
But if you could ride
Marino’s arm all the way to a Ring, wouldn’t you?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
well sure
but the “class” of the AL figures they’re a complete team and aren’t depending on ONE GUY to pull their asses out of the fire.
even we don’t do that with Albert.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Just
Izzy, Franklin, etc.
/sorry I’m bitter. I want a Mo too.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I just don't see how the class of the AL is so freakin' better than the class of the NL
power hitters? check. defense? the Phils are better.
when your cash player can’t even figure out that he’s supposed to run into a bunt… wtf? and the starting pitcher has a defacto balk move that none of the umps call?
I don’t root for sloppy baseball.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
But you're forgetting the most important thing....
1.the class of the AL is on the coasts
2.
3. Profit.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
besides
don’t you want to keep the WS out of their new stadium?
only the Cards have done it recently. it’ll just be one more reason for the rest of the world to forget 06.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes but I really
have never liked Philly. Jim Thome did that for me.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
he's not there now
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't change it.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Nothing you ever say will get me to cheer for the Yankees.
Yankee hate is in my blood. I was raised that way. I’m an Indians fan, we hate them. I cannot cheer for the Yankees simply because I don’t want the Phillies to win. The only time I could ever cheer for the Yankees, and this would be a struggle, is if their winning put the Indians in the playoffs. But then I would be cheering for the other team to lose and I would not be watching.
Not wanting the Phillies to win is not a good enough reason. Thinking their fans are the least deserving fans in baseball is not good enough. Plus Cliff Lee deserves a ring.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee can get his ring when he signs with us in 2011
i wouldn’t say the philly fans are the least deserving fans in baseball, that of course would go to those who pull for the losers on the north side. followed closely by the bandwagon jumping sawx fans
and swisher is sweet
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Who knows how good he-ll be then.
And if he’s any good he’ll be with the Yankees. And then won’t like him anymore.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
+I
and *he’ll
Don’t know what happened there.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
he'll have a down year next season
that’s been his pattern during his career so i don’t think the Yanks or any of the other big market teams will want him
i still can’t believe MO didn’t pull the trigger on him when he could have
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That would have been an ideal situation for me.
But then no Lou Marson. And he’s very nice looking. And that’s pretty much what got me through the end of this season.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Mo did not pull that deal
because Cleveland’s GM didn’t want people to think that he was taking over all of the Card’s minor league system. Geez, if we would have traded for Lee, we would have been like giving them 15 prospects in the last couple of years.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
this is why I am all for Fredbird's van
possession is 9/10s of the law… and once they’re in St. Louis they won’t want to leave…
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
that's not what i remember
it was right after the 06 flag & it was C Lee for ARey straight up
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don't tell me you like hamels just because his wife's from springfield?
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No.
I hate the Yankees.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't see it (it's not up on hulu yet)...
…but the like the premise.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
it's on FX now, that's why i asked
but now that it’s a 1 run game i think i’ll stay with baseball
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well it starts out on a werid note
leslie bibb just stuck her finger up a dude’s butt
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holy crap that was awful
awful awful awful
6ly, that’s the worst pilot i’ve seen in a long, long time
holy crap that sucked
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so I'm thinking Jason Werth needs men on base.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Yes.
Which is amazing.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Fall back.
Spring Forward.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
That’s why it’s amazing.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Back in my younger days,
it was an extra hour of drinking. I’ll take the sleep now.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Yup, that pretty much captures the difference
between my 20s and my 30s as well. Sleep is good.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
look at the picture below
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
is that a llama?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a dead horse
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
I don't buy it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 31, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
No, It's
a North Chilean Guanco
/(CLOSELY RELATED TO THE LLAMA)
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
well take this
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
Animated gif wars kill my computer.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd give it 4 stars
for plot, pacing, and performance. It just ends far too early. I’m hoping for a sequel.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
That's the most wonderful thing I've ever seen
However, methinks I detect some serious photoshop augmentation. Doesn’t she gain a bunch of cup sizes as the tear grows?
I’ll have to watch it a bunch more times to be sure.
and we will all watch it again.....
and again….
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Oh we can do much, much more than that.
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Well I mean right now.
At these particular boys.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
right you can blink as well
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
FYI in firefox
you can left click on a picture and drag it out so you can read what the sign says.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
didn't realize I haven't been
for the last year….
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I really wasn't prepared to go
as far as to thank you, but if you insist.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
top of the page on the right side.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
awesome, thanks
i think my entire worldview just changed. . . internet worldview that is
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Sir I concede
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
ha
<img src="http://cdn-www.cracked.com/phpimages/photoshop/0/9/3/3093_slide.jpg?v=1"/>
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
It really whips the llama's ass
or, possibly, its back.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I take sleep now and I'm young.
Although I’m not really a partyer.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
OT:
I’m thinking about getting a dog.
The more I look, the more he’s (on right) growing on me.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Yay puppies!
I have a black lab mix. He’s my favorite. But he’s 85 lbs and territorial. Not a good combo. We also have a beagle mix, who is 45 lbs and very friendly.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
the one with the rope.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Adorable!
Are those black labs? Those have a ton of energy. I couldn’t handle one.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, papered hunters.
Lots of energy, but a great personality.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Being too calm is supposedly not a good sign in puppies.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 31, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
I’m 6. It’s supposed to mean they won’t train well because they will be disinterested and stuff.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I'm still trying to figure out what I'm seeing
Reminds me of the time when our basset/beagle mix brought in one of the kids stuffed animals and was playing with it on the living room. Then we noticed that it wasn’t a stuffed animal, but a baby bunny. Then we noticed it was still alive.
it's a lab puppy with a kitten under it's head
but it looks like the kitten is in the pup’s mouth. it’s supposed to be funny
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my family has always had very sedentary dogs
a 30-minute walk in the morning and at night and then asleep for the rest of the day.
I’ve always enjoyed that speed.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
we've always had terrier's
if i ever get a dog after i escape the basement, i’ll be one that likes to sit on the couch & watch tv with me
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a lab then?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I like a good hound.
Cool dogs, I want to do a little bird hunting though, so I want a dog with a personality, that can do that as well.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
We had a bassett hound when I was little.
She ate three of our Star Wars action figures and a piece of an X-Wing fighter. I swear, she ate Han Solo’s head right off. Plus a whole stick of butter and a pound of hamburger meat off the counter. That dog would eat anything, and was stubborn as hell. On walks she would just sit down and stop moving. But yes, she would have been happy to sit on the couch and watch tv.
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
She was pretty cool.
Massive amounts of drool, though.
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
i can live with drool, i have towels
it’s the bouncing off the walls i’ve grown tied of
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At the Westminster Dog Show...
…they always describe terriers as having dominating personalities. I think that means they’re stubborn. They sure are cute though.
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
yes all on fronts
there are 3 jack russell’s in this house now & they totally run the show. it’s not even funny
i had a wire haired fox terrier when i was a kid & he was awesome. but he was a lot more hiper than these’s jack’s. i also had a Airedale terrier but he got run over by a deacon at our church as me & my dad were chasing him.
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hyper or hipper....
where are you going with this?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
f me, hyper
although we called him Jumper because he could jump onto a 5ft tall counter top without needing a running start. he was awesome
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Hyper?
So Jumper was more of a Brendan Ryan than a Colby Rasmus, eh?
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
in the doghouse...?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Don't tell wonderbrad
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
You know what's annoying?
Remembering you forgot to put your sheets in the dryer just before you’re ready to go to sleep. Gah! Stupid peach.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 11:58 PM EDT reply actions
i know you're a dude
i was just really grasping at straws trying to justify the pic
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-1
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
you know what? fine
just for that i’m not going to link the best gif i’ve got
i hope you’re happy cody
i hope you’re happy
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ooh I'm so scared(points and laughs)
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
...
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
very, but see now i don't know if i should link the other gif or not
i don’t want the women of veb to judge me more. i’m not your typical dude, i’m really not
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And mine is do.....
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
come on male gender let's peer pressure GDM
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
Surely the men of veb
are clever enough to find breasts online without gdm’s help?
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
But this is gdm...
I’m expecting clever breasts. Those are the best.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I think your understanding of anatomy is lacking.
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he really can't find breasts online without help.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
link doesn't work, unless that was your plan
hmm…..
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
really.....
I clicked it and it took me right where I was supposed to be :
Sigh…
Boys.
by peach concrete on Oct 31, 2009 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
oh I get it
I guess I have to GDM’s job
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
woops wrong link
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
no the wo- part in woman doesn't appear
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
how could they look at you any different?
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
at least you realize it.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
no more like this
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
Time to ride Mo.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Right?
Seems odd to bring him in when they’ve still got a 3-run lead.
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
that & phil suddenly can't get anyone out
he was great almost all season long, then come the playoffs he sucks
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And a good thing, too.
The Stooges are on Ch 11.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
And I have time to watch some of a movie and eat my instant white rice.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Instant white rice?
That makes me kind of sad. You’re in college. Shouldn’t you be eating pizza or cookie dough or something completely delicious and fattening?
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I love white rice.
I’m kind of a health freak by default because I really like healthy food. I don’t like sweets and food that’s too greasy makes me feel icky. But I do eat a lot of popcorn. And mashed potatoes.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
And soda.
I like soda, and hate water. It’s a problem.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You should try MOAR bacon
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I have that problem too.
I drink more diet pepsi than water some days. It’s going to wreck my bones.
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
there are few things in life i enjoy more than a nice, greasy burger
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Greasy burgers I can handle every once in awhile.
I always end up taking the bun off and eating it with a fork though.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
pegacorns....
with bacon wings.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
your favorite part of the female anatomy & use WAR & UZR to support your belief
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but unless the answer is 'brains' or 'eyes',
tread very, very carefully
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
It's amazing
that a bacon pegacorn can lead to this.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I find the pancreas particularly delicious.
Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2009 5:14 AM EST up reply actions
where does tyler greene fit in the system?
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
How Clemson should have a night game next week.
And no rain.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
where is our bench
and how come it’s mostly pitchers
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
also...feel free to do some pitch f/x stuff.
Is there minor league info available on Jaime?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
AFL?
but … still….
JAIME GARCIA
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
but still,
bacon pegacorns……where did they come from, what is their mission?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I want to do this sometime.
Yesterday in Physics someone’s phone went off to the tune of the Justice League. After the professor paused his lecture to acknowledge the phone, the kid answered his phone and replied, “The University is in trouble?! We’re on our way!” The kid stood up, ripped off his t-shirt, revealed the Superman costume underneath, and exclaimed “Super Friends, Assemble!” Scattered across the class of about 150, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Green Lantern, and Flash all stood up and promptly left the class to save Auburn University. MLIA
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
i really should have gone to collage
that sounds like a lot of fun
oh cgirly, what is MLIA?
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I like Fmylife as well
MLIA is funnier, but Fmylife is just interesting to think ab out how unlucky some people are ;P
"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does all the work"
-Mark Twain
my inner grammar nazi wants to correct the "collage" error
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
also.....
VEB is #2 on the bacon pegacorn search. I’m doing my part.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
^ is f'n gdm's post,
and I thought I posted it fist.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I just had an idea....
this will be my unique gift to VEB. I am going to fanpost the Genesis of the pegacorn. This will kill some time tomorrow.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
be sure to search for the moment
when we established that it was pegacorn and not pegicorn.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
was there earlier today.....
it can be a pegicorn, according to the robot.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
yes, but we established that it would be "pegacorn" here in VEB
I gave a rather reasoned argument.
even gdm agreed.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
oh I do remember and it will come to light....
but you can never discount when a pegicorn may come in to play…….
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
Yes,
but you liked pegicorn better.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
A quick search has it's first
mention by CFIC in 08…..this will be fun.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
yeah. I did that search day before yesterday.
let me know if my glossary update is off.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I will have to search
unicorns and whatnot to find early origins.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I may expand this and include the GOB's
Mythology of VEB, a mid fall project.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
I think I recall an image of a van
with a pegacorn on the side.
by peach concrete on Nov 1, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
oh no way
I’m figuring the GOB
it’ll take me a few weeks, though… but I’ll have evidence.
besides, you might tempt them.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Whatever you do
I will be more informed because of it. I may not 100% get it, but it will be interesting, I’m sure.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
so i just did a hot lap around SBN
and almost everyone else has multiple world series games threads, except us. best fans in baseball my butt.
i wonder why that is? we used to have game threads for the world series, but not this year. are we really that apathetic about this world series just because the yankees are in it?
i really should go to bed, go to be gdm. go to f’in bed already.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
I am fromt he past
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
the best fans in baseball
were thinking the skies have finally cleared up and it’s a perfect evening for baseball in St. Louis
stop rubbing it in, f’n gdm
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 1, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am fromt he past I am from the past
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
no one ever listens until it's too late
the GOB have no power over you until you try to ignore them
besides, that’s a typical Bernie article. La Russa has been trying to get Mac into ST for years. to think no one in the org had any time to raise objections is unlikely. still, it is true: TLR brainstormed it over the weekend and he made the call on Monday. then he asked Mo about it.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Putting his points on the line:
“I really believe in Mark, or otherwise I wouldn’t have used up whatever points I have with Mr. DeWitt and Mr. Mozeliak.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
not his _points_
gasp
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
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