The Sky Is Falling, David Freese is a Cheap Copout, Offseason Shopping List Chat Thread
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:30 AM EDT
987 comments
Good morning, nation of few and many.
So let's see, anything in the news today? Anything, oh, I don't know, maybe Cardinal related? Doesn't seem like there should be, considering the Cards are out of the playoffs, and the Hot Stove season can't really begin in earnest until after the arbitration deadlines and the like, so I just can't imagine what there might be to talk about this-
Oh, that. Yeah.
Seems Albert Pujols is going under the knife sometime today to have a bit of elbow work done. I guess that's newsworthy.
Hmm. What else? What else what else what else? Oh, yeah. Looks like David Freese is heading into Spring Training 2010 as the favourite to win the third base job. I find this to be an interesting story, to say the least. See, Tony La Russa never seemed all that keen on Freese, certainly not in that let's-hand-this-kid-a-job sort of way, up until just recently. Specifically, Freese playing catcher on the last day of the regular season seems to have won over the old grouch; Tony does love guys who are willing to do absolutely anything to contribute, after all. Of course, this leaves us with an interesting paradox: it appears David Freese may very well have put himself in the lead of the third base derby by not playing third base. Curious.
Of course, the bitching about Freese being the cheaper option is already beginning in some circles. It's fascinating to note how quickly the midseason trades and subsequent payroll boost of 2009 have already fallen out of the general consciousness of your average Post-Dispatch commenter.
Which brings us to the task at hand. I have some spare time, you have a need to be entertained, so let's have us a chat. Haven't done one in a while, so it seems as good a time as any. We should probably try to focus on the team's needs for the offseason, and just what they might do to best fill those needs, but I somehow doubt I, or you, will be able to maintain any kind of real focus. (Just basing on past experience.)
I should be here until about 12:30 or 1:00. Let's chat.
The Baron's Playlist for the 21st of October, 2009
"Buggin'"- The Flaming Lips (at long last, The Soft Bulletin has been reissued on vinyl! Hooray!)
"Barbarella" - Scott Weiland (It's a crime no one knows this song exists.)
"Corvette Bummer" - Beck (From one of the three greatest singles ever released.)
"Solomon Jones" - Aceyalone
And by the way, who the fuck is Cheryl Cole, and why does she keep showing up in my sidebar news feed?
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The meme of a failed season...
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Oct 21, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let. It. Die.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Oct 21, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kill. It. Now.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 21, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you read that wrong
It was Cherry Coke
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If only.
I loooove Cherry Coke.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tastes like somebody mixed Coke and Dr. Pepper to me.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fresse is going to make the team
Just as the backup catcher. Thurston will be the starting 3B
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You know, Flim,
there are some things you just don’t joke about. I’m thinking of temporarily banning you for such an out-of-bounds comment.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring back Miles!
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that bump Skippy from 2nd?
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Oct 21, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well we need to keep our back-up CF fresh.
Just in case.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
miles will be the fifth starter
not enough grit in the rotation
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Oct 21, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily
Skippy to center…and left. Two outfielders, extra middle infielder dude. Think of the possibilities.
That way we can bring Bo Hart back and finally see our dream tandem of Bo/Miles come to fruition.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could have said "Hart/Miles"
although “Hart Miles” sounds like a measurement for effort displayed by similar players. ex. “that last sprint to first on a routine grounder puts Darren Erstad in the AL lead with 124 h(e)art miles this season”
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just be careful.
You don’t want to say I H(e)art Miles. That’d just be a little disturbing.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flim....
are you still doing the Che shirts, or do you have any left?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i have a few left
Still have Long Sleeve and Hoodies also
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have mail.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please tell me ...
that means there is no longer a reason for Nick Stavinoha to ever put on the Birds on the Bat again.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So do you think that the spurs are just a cover?
And they are going to do TJ today?
/Pot stirrer.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's two different questions.
No, I do not think the spurs are a cover.
Yes, I think they’ll have to do TJ, either today or very soon.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think he would do TJ before a new contract
We talked about this heavily yesterday. He does have a 7% chance of never playing again
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
it’s going to be Albert’s decision. I don’t think Carpenter wanted to have TJ in ’07, but it had to be done.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt they will do it this season
What would happen if the Cardinals didn’t have Pujols for 12 months?
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we could call up Wallace to replace him
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I recall
cleaning up bone spurs for Carp was a failed attempt to save the elbow and led (after a delay) pretty directly to TJ. Something about the bone spurs being all that was holding his elbow together.
I would hate to hear that four months into his six month recovery it is determined to just go ahead with TJ and end up losing all of 2010.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
by giveml on Oct 21, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a real possibility
The bone spurs are the body’s way of trying to deal with the loss of structural support of the UCL.
If you cut them back, without providing support in some other means, you’re actually going to reduce the stability of the elbow.
GUY1: What the hell is this support beam doing hear. It doesn’t look necessary. Hey, somebody hand me a sledge.
GUY2: Wait…
ROOF COLLAPSES ON BOTH GUYS.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wolf's law
if the body is doing something that is putting un-natural stress on an area, then the body will start to develop bony structures in that area to help control the excess stress. This is why people develop things like heel spurs. In that situation, surgery can be done to remove the spur, but that does not fix the problem. The abnormal stress is the problem and the spur is just a side effect. Hopefully this situation is not like that situation.
I do not feel like Albert’s situation is like Carp’s was, in that his elbow is not going to be stressed the same way that Carp’s was as a pitcher.
There is very little that Albert does that puts the stress on that ligament that would cause a healthy ligament to fail. However, since Albert’s ligament is already damaged, there may be further damage to the ligament. And since Albert doesn’t play a position that requires a lot of throwing at maximal effort, he should be ok with having a damaged UCL, as long as it is still providing some support to the joint for the occasional throw to second or relay to the plate.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Oct 21, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to go for the jugular there Flim.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flim, you're frigging brutal today
please stop. think of the children.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
from the looks of things, evilfrog has highjacked his account
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 21, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, that's just the sort of thinking that scares me the most.
If the surgery needs to be done, they need to do it. Thinking, “Oh, we can’t possibly lose Albert for the better part of a year,” is just going to lead to him not having things properly fixed now, playing hurt for part of next season, and then having TJ about June or July, in which case you’ve lost the whole year and possibly part of 2011.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this line of thinking.
If he needs TJ surgery, then do it. And do it now, while the World Series matchup is still pending, even if only for a few more days. Get it fixed now, when the parties have the most time for recovery.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again yesterday
We speculated he would want to wait till he played 10 years at least for entry into the HOF
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I speculated that he would wait until after his next contract
I know I would.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Valid point
But it would probably drive down the price of the contract due to all the risk.
If he does it, then any contract would be much lower risk.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't matter.
He’s already played 9 seasons, do you really think the Cardinals wouldn’t arrange something so he could pinch run in a game to qualify for his 10th season?
The HOF has nothing to do with it.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Oct 21, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought recovery time for position players was much shorter
See Tony Womack
Am I wrong?
by OCCardsFan on Oct 21, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
It’s more like 6 months for position players because they don’t have to throw as hard or as precisely.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially 1B.
Offseason Rumors : Me :: Unicorn Blood : Voldemort
by Cardinals645 on Oct 21, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's basically 12 months for a pitcher.....
but does anyone know what the recovery/rehab time for a 1st baseman who would need to throw a lot less would be for Tommy John surgery?
Surely we’re talking more like 6-9 months, tops, I’d think. Right? Or is the sky REALLY falling?
by mtalken on Oct 21, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind. Apparently I need to look down further to see this was asked and answered.
by mtalken on Oct 21, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp HAD to have TJ surgery done in 2007 or he couldn't pitch
His arm would fly off into the 3B seats if he tried to throw hard.
Albert can still play without having TJ done.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about position player recovery time?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Mayish, if it were done today.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They may be reserving the right to do the procedure if things are messed up when they go in
I’d put the odds at that at maybe 25 percent, but I wouldn’t be blown away if they announced that they ended up doing the TJ surgery anyway.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's sort of what I'm thinking, honestly.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this happens (I won't say often).
Surgeon goes in, finds that one of the bone chips has compromised the ligament, performs full TJ.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a reason
that Dr. Andrews is in the room, methinks.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally,
I would rather have Albert out until June of 2010 than have him there in ST with his elbow still messed up and have it blow up at a later date. I can certainly see either side, though.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially
if they have Holliday (or Bay or [insert wishful thinking future cleanup hitter]) to hold down the offense until he returns.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you mean "hold up the offense"?
They find ways to hole themselves down without somebody doing it for them. Actually either way you say it could taken that way.
Damn, no way to win.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry
it’s all downhill from here
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would Pujols' surgery ....
have a positive or negative effect on Holliday choosing to sign here? I would lead towards a negative effect from Holliday’s perspective, but the team may increase it’s efforts to get him.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lack of Pujols TJ surgery would probably drive Holliday's price up
Because the Cardinals are going to need Holliday more for when Pujols’ elbow falls apart.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sorta think
Albert will play next year then have surgery next offseason. Next year is his 10th season, at which point he’s HOF eligible, right? Why even risk missing the HOF, even if its just a small risk?
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Oct 21, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
It’s all over, and all the doctors are saying that he doesn’t need TJ right now.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean that it's not as bad as they thought?
Or just not bad enough to risk it? I realize that looks redundant, but I mean that the first is where it really wasn’t the problem and the second is that there is a problem but not dire.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like it's still an issue.
Randy Karraker (spelling?) just said on ESPN radio that the doctors say the tear is worse than the one that shut Carpenter down for TJ surgery, but because he’s a position player they are able to manage it.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that there are arguments for and against with valid points
but I really wish he would just fix the damn thing. I would hate to see it come apart on him. Mostly as a fan but you don’t want to see anybody get hurt and chance damaging themselves further.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you want to be known as the doctor who ruined Albert Pujols' career?
As St. Louis’ Steve Bartman, but worse?
That’s not how it truly would be, of course, but that is how many people would regard the doctor. I would imagine they would get a fair number of death threats.
I for one would not cut on him until the elbow blows out and all I could do is make him better.
This is the whole error of omission versus error of commission thing, and omission generally wins out over commission.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point TPG.
Doesn’t mean that I feel better about just sitting back and waiting for both shoes to drop at once.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, good. . .
the Cardinals’ team doctors are saying he doesn’t need TJ right now.
That makes me feel much better.
/sarcasm
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 21, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard they also said he is going to keep both of his legs.
Draw your own conclusions…
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that it was Dr. Andrews
who performed the surgery, and made that statement gives me hope.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2010 Rotation
Could you list your free agent candidates in order of preference and your internal options in order of preference? Any additional commentary on who winds up in what roles and why would be great.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
K.
Personally, I actually really like Smoltz. I know there are plenty of reasons to like certain others more, but he would probably actually be my favourite. Short contract, has proven to be healthy for a full season, excellent peripherals, and just to fulfill my daily quota of sportswriter cliches, he’s an outstanding presence in the clubhouse.
I really like Rich Harden’s arm, but I want him as a closer. A starter, I just see him turning in another 100 inning season, and after watching him this year, I fear they won’t even be vintage Harden innings.
Sheets is too uncertain, even though I lobbied heavily for him last year. Plus, I think he’ll end up with the Rangers.
I would like to see Pedro, if he isn’t too expensive.
Duchscherer worries me with his health and, specifically, his head.
I’m forgetting some guys, but those are the ones who jump out at me at this moment. Who else am I leaving out?
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bedard
I would love to see them take a chance on Bedard. He can be unhittable at times.
Although the other times he does not pitch because he is hurt or does not feel like it.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelvim Escobar
"It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again." - Terence Mann.
by TurdFerguson on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heathcliff Slocumb
Mizzou 37 - Illinois 9
by STLRegalia on Oct 21, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Bacon
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOOGY pitching decades after his prime...perfect!!
You’re a visionary, unappreciated in your own time and cherished by generations to come.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Escobar,
but he’s a fair bit older than the other guys, and has had recurring shoulder issues, I believe. He scares me. Maybe as a bullpen guy, but starting, I don’t see it.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't get a feel for Bedard.
Fantastic stuff, but his health really worries me. Although I will say, he’s so close to being a Type A that bringing him in is a great idea. He’s any kind of good, and you can get a nice draft pick from whoever decides to gamble multiple years on him.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is my thoughts also
I want to see when he is scheduled back to pitch
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seems now is the time to sign an A, if we are going to do it
since our pick is very low
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Oct 21, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
The only way I sign an A is if the pick is top 15 and thus protected. Well, maybe not the onlyonlyonly way, but for any of the guys we’re talking about, no thanks. I don’t think there’s a guy in the FA market this year I would be willing to give up a first rounder for.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Lackey,
but he’ll be well out of the Cards’ price range. I’m looking more in the ‘value guy coming off injury or down year’ demographic, ie a pitcher who could offer some upside at the back of the rotation.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden/Bedard/Sheets
If you are going to take a gamble. I think you do so for the guys who have the highest potential. What good is it to take a risk on a guy who may be mediocre at best? If you are not going to spend top dollar for talent, you might as well take a chance on a guy who could be a top talent.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overall roster construction
Looking at the big picture, the club has a gaping hole in LF and will be allocating $20MM to Holliday, if they sign him. Additionally, the Pujols extension adds even more cost. In the rotation, you have three pitchers secured for the medium term. I don’t that the club wants to allocate that much money to the rotation, especially when all we really need is a #3 or #4 type of guy. I think Smoltz/Bedard/Sheets/Harden, with their replacements, if injured, can be that type of production.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo!
The club really can’t afford a whole lot more invested in the rotation. If Holliday leaves, maybe they move some cash to pitching, but I just think the offense needs to be more of a priority right now.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on if Holliday is out of the running.
I would put the money in the rotation if you can’t get a top-tier offensive talent in FA.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you, by and large.
I’m high on Smoltz, but wouldn’t mind the club signing a low-dollar, high-upside scrap off the heap. That isn’t Harden and I anticipate Pedro wanting too much money. Maybe Penny, but I think my intrigue with him last offseason is clouding my judgment his offseason.
I am not at all keen on Bedard, and may be misguided in my sentiments toward him, but I just feel like he’s the type of guy you trade Danny Haren Adam Jones for and then get disappointed by him.
As for Lackey, I like him, but he will be expensive and we’re trying to extend Pujols and sign Free Agent Holliday.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I would rather see them spend a little extar on a proven commodity. Too many times the Cardinals spend too much money on a risky investment or overopay for medicore players. (See: Lohse, Kyle)
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if that extra for Lackey costs you Holliday?
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No necessarily
Saying that it has to be Lackey. I am just saying that if they spend money whether it be on Holliday, Lackey, Bay… etc. that they should spend it on a known commodity and not for a guy they hope rebounds after a down year. They are hurting now and will be because they banked on Lohse after he had a career year.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it make sense
If you think you are a few wins away from contention to roll the dice on a high risk/high reward player
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The curse of the Lohse contract
is that you can’t go after a Lackey now, because the Cards, at their current payroll, can’t spend that much on four starting pitchers and still fill out the roster with enough quality position players.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's somewhat true,
but the hope is that someone along the lines of Garcia can step in and help pick up some of the slack at the back of the rotation. The back of the Cards’ rotation this year was historically bad, literally as bad as the front was good. Even just a moderate improvement at the back end makes a fairly decent impact.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there any way
The Cardinals increase the payroll budget?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JAIME GARCIA
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me,
paying Lacket $15MM per year for 5 years is far riskier than Smoltz for one year at $5MM plus incentives (hypothetically).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steep price
I keep hearing $5 mil plus incentives as a typical estimate for Smotlz’s service. Does anyone else think that is a bit high for a guy that made $5.5MM last year and had some pretty poor numbers to show for it. Isn’t he due a bit more of a pay cut? or did his brief stint with the Cards alleviate any concerns that hes not as good anymore?
It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great.
by lukyduk on Oct 21, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
$5.5 MM
If thats the case, I want him as our closer.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reduce the min
increase the incentives and i’m all for it
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Oct 21, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats more what I was thinking
Would much prefer a base at around $3mil or so and give him incentives that could rack up a good salaray if he pitched well, not just pitched. Innings pitched would be unfair if he is just a average pitcher, honestly we need him to be as good as Pinero was in 2009. Whats a good metric to give incentive dollars to a pitcher for? Is Quality Starts unheard of?
It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great.
by lukyduk on Oct 21, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Myers
who is my personal favorite for a reclamation project.
I still think Smoltz is the best option though.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've hated Myers for a long time,
but after doing a bunch of research into starter health and skill for some articles at DM, Myers is easily one of the best bets as he falls in the very high (of the damaged goods) on the health end and is among the better pitchers skill-wise.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, wouldn't Carp beat the hell out of him? Maybe even in Spring Training?
I worry that Carp might punch with his throwing hand.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, one of the reasons I'd like to have Myers,
is because he’s not above hitting opposing players and is just an angry, kind of crazy guy. Hopefully his run ins with Chris are only when one of them goes low and the other goes high as they tackle an opposing hitter who was looking at one of them.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yadi can kick 'em in the nuts
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isnt Myers
a former boxer? Carp might think twice before he swings with either hand…he would still win ,of course, but this isnt Ludwick…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is former boxer vs. former hockey player
if we still had Miles, this’d work
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or anyone who has little business being on a baseball field
the more unlikely the fit, the better.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That begs the question...
If you could get Myers for a contract similar to Piniero’s (2Y$13M) do you make that deal?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RB - Better 2010...
Milton Bradley or Ryan Ludwick?
Free Milton
by all4tookie on Oct 21, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think MB
would probably be the better running back but I don’t think the Cards need one at the moment.
by madeintaiwan on Oct 21, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Ludwick's quick smells like french toast
MB does have better pass-catching abilities, though
Free Milton
by all4tookie on Oct 21, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we need a RB
dont we have to call up Daryl Jones?
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends
If MB can bat DH for 100 games, I’m going to go with MB. If MB is expected to play the OF for 140 games, I’m going to go with Ludwick.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Ludwick overall.
Bradley probably has a bit better bat, especially in the OBP department, but I think Ludwick is a much better fielder. (Purely anecdotal, though.) They’re very close.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, if Ludwick can somehow recapture his magic 2008..
..its a bit like trading for a silver slugger
Free Milton
by all4tookie on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know tookie...
….it really is.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And an All-Star!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Oct 21, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cub fans are paranoid today
because the Cubs threw money at the Rangers big time batting coach. Who likes Bradley, and helped Bradley hit great last year.
If the Cubs keep Bradley, 2010 could be a hilarious year.
by sdrone on Oct 21, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you gotta hand it to them
they’re entertaining all year long.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only
if you’re not a Cubs fan.
Red Means Go.
by bigwilley18 on Oct 21, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hence my witty observation on a Cardinals board
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I liked where you went with it. I just wanted to join in. I’m lonely.
Red Means Go.
by bigwilley18 on Oct 21, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with a name like bigwilley
you would think you could find a lot of companionship…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was my thought!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Point
I obviously need to market myself better. Maybe I can get the guy who designed RickAnkielOnline.com to put something together for me.
Though if I’m going to mimic my website after a pro ball player, I think Gregg Zaun’s website is the way to go.
Red Means Go.
by bigwilley18 on Oct 21, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
witty might be a bit strong
but you’re right it was an observation!
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, ironically I couldn't think of any other adjective
all wit no wisdom
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually kind of nervous about Bradley being a cub next year
he will do better than this year, but it will be hillarious to see the fans and MB’s scuffles
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 21, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
too bad they didn't buy the rangers ballpark as well
And now a scene from seinfeld
ELAINE: [mind] Who does this guy think he is?
KEITH: [mind] I'm Keith Hernandez.
by CodyG on Oct 21, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick
Less likely to be injured actually, and has been better the past 3 years.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 21, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa
I am not too high about DeRosa’s value as an everyday 3B, but what if we could signhim to be our everyday 2B? I thiknk having an plus offensive player at 2B is undervalued here. Thoughts?
Also what about the possibility of takinga flyer on a couple of guys like Harden and Sheets? If 1 of the 2 work out you could really have a nice rotation. If both work out you have an unstoppable rotation.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't a good defensive 3B
Why would you think he would be any better at 2B? He wasn’t much of a plus offensive player in Saint Louis.
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am assuming
He gets his wrist fixed and that was his problem. 20 HR/80 RBI from your 2B is an offensive plus in my book.
Defensively he has to be on par with Schumaker.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skip is a better defender than DeRosa at 2B
Plus, Wrist injuries sap your power and sometimes take over a year to recover from.
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I want to see him there,
because I think the Skippeh experiment was a success, and he is now our 2B of the now and immediate future, but wasn’t Dero’s best position supposed to be 2B?
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think that was just because he is little and white
therefore people had to say that…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats how the Skip experiment started, right?
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this sounds like a prelude to a birds-and-the-bees talk
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's the birds-and-the-bees?
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm fairly sure it has nothing to do with the man stew
but don’t quote me
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 22, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
skip
the problem is that you then lose any benefit from having schumaker on the roster. his bat plays much better at 2B than in LF, and it seems like he’s at least an avg defender based on his stats in the second half
by theWizard on Oct 21, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skip
Also I think Skip should not be an everyday starter at 2B anway. He will prob platoon with Lugo, but Lugo’s defense makes me vomit a little in my mouth.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa is really bad defenisively at second.
He’s pretty bad at third, too, but not quite as brutal. Much of his value with the bat he would give back with the glove. Add in the age and the chance of injury-related collapse, and I think you could do better with the money and the draft pick when he leaves.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Derosa costs money.
With Freese/Schu/Lugo/the Memphis infield, hopefully you’ve got his two positions covered for free.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In your opinion, RB, would the front office be justified in NOT offering arbitration?
This is one of those moves that seems like a no-brainer to me. If he accepts, fine, we get to see if he’s Mark Derosa 2008, but we aren’t stuck with the multi-year suckitude of Mark Derosa 2009. If he declines, fine; we’ll take another pick.
by Ray Lankford on Oct 21, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
You’ve got to offer DeRo arbitration. The value of the pick is too high not to. As you said, if he accepts, okay, you’ve got a great utility guy who can start at third if something goes wrong. you don’t risk the multi-year, as you said, and he brings plenty of value on a one-year deal.
Not much downside, really. The offer is necessary, I think.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any chance he climbs to type A...
with a strong season?
"Don't do anything till I get back!" - Jesus to the Cubs
by cardzfanbub on Oct 21, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure.
I’m not great with the arb rules. I’m sure someone else would have a better idea than I.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say Yes
Since he was borderline this year
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Whatever offensive improvement (which is a tenuous assumption, given the wrist injury) DeRosa brings is wiped out by his bad defense and large salary.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he accepts arbitration
isn’t it correct that his salary would not be guaranteed? If he shows up at spring training and can’t perform couldn’t they either trade him or release him? I think offering arb is the way to go.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
by giveml on Oct 21, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and I would love to see Harden if they could convince him to move to the 'pen.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Specifically, Freese playing catcher on the last day of the regular season seems to have won over the old grouch"
David Freese is Cindy Lou Who?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you inferring
that TLR was born with a heart three sizes too small?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's been hugging and smiling more, so I think it did go sproing.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
schu
the problem is that you then lose any benefit from having schumaker on the roster. his bat plays much better at 2B than in LF, and it seems like he’s at least an avg defender based on his stats in the second half
by theWizard on Oct 21, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why
Does Schumaker have to be on the roster as a starter? He is cheap enough to be a backup. He should be a platoon player anyway due to his LHP splits
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he is
platoons with Lugo at 2B
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we platoon Skip
with an eye to who hits lefties, who’s the best guy to pair with Skip?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lugo.
Built in. Custom made, you might say. If you were Ric Flair.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...from head to toe.
Wooooooooo!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Glare!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chase Utley.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all those balls he airmailed over Ryan Howard....
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Who would want Chase Utley?
…well besides me
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hypothetical: Albert Pujols is out of line. Does Chris Carpenter luggage him?
Who wins?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Triangle.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always liked Universe.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, do you think Colby is going to be Tony's CF in 2010,
or is he going to get jerked around in favor of whoever the 4th/5th OFs are?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think Colby has paid his dues now.
Particularly with how well he played in the postseason, I think he’s won Tony’s trust. I don’t think we’ll have quite so much frustration in ‘10 about Corky’s playing time. Or maybe I just hope.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is my instinct as well, but what if the team signs a RH who can play CF (Cameron is getting a lot of talk around here)?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my worry as well.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be one of the most productive CF platoons in history,
but considering the marginal gain is entirely dependent on Cameron’s salary, I think the gains would be better if that money goes elsewhere.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just think he will cost to much
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we allocated,
…some of the money being used to woo FA Holliday on Kapler and Cameron, I think it would be very wise.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contingent on Holliday going to the Mets
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that does concern me some.
But I really don’t think the Cards will invest in a player like that. I think they go all-in for Holliday and rely on the farm system for the 4th/5th OF guys.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I vote for early feedings...
and is his name in ink on the lineup card.
by goslinkygo on Oct 21, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hypothetical
How long do the Yankees have to reign before there is some sort of salary cap put in place in baseball? It is ridiculous the way they can buy chamopionships. I am jealous.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, they haven't bought one in almost a decade.
It looks like they may win this year, but it isn’t as if they’re just buying titles left and right.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They
are not buying titles, but they basically buy an entrance to the playoffs every year. Obviously the playoffs are a crapshoot once you get in. But you have to get there to begin with and they are almosta guarantee before the season starts due to their payroll.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's also safe to say
they are removing other teams from contention by drawing star power away from smaller markets.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a salary floor would do a lot more for the league than a cap
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I think a floor would be essential as well.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, bookends?
A cap and a floor?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
free market lovers everywhere cringe...
Mizzou 37 - Illinois 9
by STLRegalia on Oct 21, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The salary cap histrionics that erupt every so often just seem so unnecessary.
Has anyone been paying attention to the other capped leagues? The competition in this one is better. Can we talk about something interesting now?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How
Is the competition in this league better?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A more varied set of teams make the playoffs in this league, and more teams win the WS.
Could the Raiders go from 0-16 to a playoff berth? The Tigers went from 100 losses to the world series.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
were you around in 1999?
The Raiders are a poorly run franchise, that has nothing to do with the cap.
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feel free to argue my actual points.
Because I think they’re a bit deeper than which league’s shitty teams are worse-run.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how the Rams going worst to champs didn't address your point about the Tigers
As for the “more varied set of teams,” I have no idea how to properly compare two leagues with different division and playoff formats (not to mention the fact that they play a different game). Your statements didn’t address this at all, so I’m not sure how to argue against it.
As for regular season, since the NFL realigned it’s divisions in 2002, the eight divisions have been won by:
4/4, 3/4, 4/4, 3/4, 4/4, 3/4, 2/4, 3/4 teams.
In the same time period, the 6 MLB divisions have been won by:
4/5, 2/6, 3/5, 2/4, 3/5, 3/5 teams.
I don’t know how to compare those numbers appropriately (as I already said), but here are a couple things to note:
- There are 3 NFL divisions which have had 4 different winners in the past 7 years, while this has only happened in one MLB division (even though the divisions are larger).
- There have been 26 NFL division winners in 56 slots (0.46) compared to 17 MLB division winners in 42 slots (0.40)
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and by the way
I don’t really have a position on this. I was just responding to the statement that an NFL team can’t go from worst to first given that it happened in St. Louis in the past 10 years.
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t around in 1999 so I didn’t know what you meant by that.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry then
that was during my formative sports years so I just assume it’s prominent for everyone.
Back to worrying about Albert
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would of guessed you were older than 10
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doogie howser, md
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Oct 21, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doogie was even further ahead of his time than we realized at the time
He was basically blogging in the early 90s. All he needed was the internet
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Raiders won last week.
And the Dolphins won the AFC East last season…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's because the schedule is longggggggggerrr
And the playoffs are shorterrrrrrrr. You’re comparing sprints to marathons.
We’re here talking about how if payroll were an extra $30m, we wouldn’t even have a Matt Holliday debate, and yet the Yankees possessing TWICE our resources isn’t an issue? The Cardinals aren’t even one of the losing teams. We scraped up a few thousand more butts in the seats to be able to make the midseason moves, the equivalent of clawing on to the ledge on our fingernails, yet star players who put butts in seats in struggling markets are not going to impact teams, stadiums, communities?
It’s about controlling the talent pool, not the results. The results are up to the guys on the field, and the schedule and the game itself ensures it’s still up to them. But at some point the disparity will be so great that it won’t be economically feasible to compete. Ask the non-expansion teams out West if economy doesn’t matter to franchises.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you're afraid that sometime in the future, the Yankees will be unbeatable?
Seems like I’ve heard that one before. This has been a refrain of people who want a cap for a long time now- it still hasn’t happened.
If the talent pool is locked down, how has that not corrupted the results yet? There is no evidence that salary capping makes leagues more balanced.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
If the talent pool is locked down, how has that not corrupted the results yet? There is no evidence that salary capping makes leagues more balanced.
I actually think the luxury tax works better than a hard cap. It certainly has for the NBA.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not that the Yankees
will be unbeatable. Its that outside of the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Angels & Dodgers teams will have no shot. Sure every once in a while a team like the Rockies or the Rays will make a run. But when was the last year that one of the five teams mentioned was not in the playoffs?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
Its that outside of the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Angels & Dodgers teams will have no shot.
This hasn’t happened. That’s what we keep saying.
Seems to me that the Dodgers are a team built on young, cost-controlled talent (Kershaw, Billingsley, Kemp, Ethier, Loney, Martin, all those bullpen pitchers) with a few high salary guys like Manny and Furcal and a few medium priced veterans (Blake, Hudson, Belliard, Loretta) around to fill in the gaps. Sure they have a high payroll, but look at the some of the garbage that they’ve spend money on — it hasn’t helped them get to his point in the season.
Same with the Phillies, who incidentally won the World Series last year with a payroll similar to the Cardinals. They did it by beating a team with a payroll under $80M that relied on…..wait for it…….young, cost-controlled talent.
The Angels have moved away from this in terms of position players, but nearly all of their pitchers have come out of the their farm system. They aren’t just going out and buying the flavor of the offseason, although they probably could.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one
is denying that young, cost-controlled talent is essential. But its teams like the Dodgers for instance that can afford to have a crap contract on their payroll and it not affect them signing a high-priced FA.
How many teams could afford to pay Juan Pierre $10 MM to be a 4th outfielder and then go out and sign Manny for $25 MM?
Not to mention the amount of money they paid guys like Andruw Jones and Nomar not to play for their team.
Most teams do not have the resources for that kind of margin of error. Its inherently unfair for some teams to be able to make huge mistakes with contracts and just be able to throw more money at other guys.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More $$$ = Higher margin for error
It works this way in salary cap structured leagues as well, you just think that it doesn’t because there’s a “hard cap” in place. Teams defer money to later on, when the cap will be higher, because they know they will be able to afford it later. They pay higher signing bonuses to avoid long term cap hits to players who might not be productive at the end of their contracts. The big market teams in football, basketball, and hockey all are more successful and have more talent than the other teams in their leagues on average. Why? Because they have more money. Salary caps don’t change that, they simply imply that everything is fair because teams all have the same amount of money to spend on players, when they really don’t in reality.
Look, you can debate this all day, but I’ve read and discussed this topic plenty — there’s no conceivable argument that you can make that’s going to make me believe that a salary cap in baseball is more “fair” than the current system to the lower market teams. I think it’s possible that it could do the exact opposite. I think the luxury tax rules that are currently in place along with the revenue sharing agreements are more than enough to “even the field” per se.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday is still too expensive. . .
but I agree with fourstick on this one.
;<)
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 21, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The NFL doesn't have a farm system to pull from
Or trade from
John Smoltz for Cardinals' closer 2010!!
by jd is legend on Oct 21, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that Tigers team
didn’t just call up 12 guys from the farm and all of the sudden they’re a contender either.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is...
all those guys have to get old at some point. They’re going to be paying nearly $150M to 7 players who are in their mid-thirties by 2011 — just go look on their projected payroll sheet at Cots, it’s RIDICULOUS.
My worry is that they start spending ridiculous amounts in the Latin American market, outbidding everyone on those players without having it effect the luxury tax, while simultaneously building up their farm system so that they are stocked there as well. They’ve had an awful lot of good talent come out of their farm system considering how low they pick in the draft each and every year.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And see
That would paralyze most teams, but all that mean is that they will increase their payroll to buy new players. They still made a huge profit this year. What is to stop them from raising their payroll to $250-300 mil? If they keep winning and keep making a profit, what would stop them? Again I think they have an unfair adavantage that will need to be addressed sooner rather than later.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its also not just them
I lump the Red Sox & Mets into the same category. Some day there may onlybe 4-5 teams who ahve a realistic shot of winning a title each year. It saddens me.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
works for the EPL
not sure if that’s a model we’re interested in following
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we could relegate the Pirates, that'd be great.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
I don’t understand this notion. Every team should always have a shot at signing the best players under all circumstances? In what league is that even remotely true?
To me, baseball has it a whole lot better off than the NFL or NBA when it comes to lower payroll teams having the opportunity to compete — some simply don’t choose to do so, they’d rather line their pockets and bitch about not getting a publicly financed stadium (Marlins) than make their team competitive by doing what is necessary to do that. Teams have players on a cost controlled basis for the first 6 years of their careers, making them cheap assets. The Raiders are currently paying JaMarcus Russell $40M in guaranteed money to completely suck for the next 3 season. How is that “better”?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are pros & cons of every league.
NFL:
Pro: Salary cap – Players must perform or get cut.
Con: Rookies – make more money before ever taking the field as a pro
NBA:
Pro: Rookie salary structure, Veteran exceptions
Con: (I do not know much about the NBA)
MLB:
Pro: ummm…
Con: No international draft, guarenteed contracts, lower funded teams have no shots at best players via free agency or draft, no salary cap/floor…
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Con for the NBA
is that it’s the NBA.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well played
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I do not really know much about it other than them havn=ing slotted rookie salries for their draft picks and veteran excpetions which I think is cool.
I just think there is a major problem where teams that are consistently bottom feeders cannot afford to sign and draft better players as they should be. I would also like to see the idea of a “franchise tag” put in place for baseball.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you think it's cool doesn't mean it's a better arrangement.
MLB has one of the least structured systems and is free from the awful salary machinations that have to occur for NBA teams to compete.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen
Sorting out the NBA salary structure is like solving a sudoku puzzle, only in this sudoku puzzle, the game is rigged for the Lakers and Celtics to have a huge advantage.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What good does that do?
I would also like to see the idea of a "franchise tag" put in place for baseball.
So we would slap the “franchise tag” on Holliday this offseason, which would give us the right to match any offer sheet that he signs. So the Yankees offer him 5Y$125M and he signs the offer sheet — we only have the right to “match” it, we can’t offer him less. How does that help the lower market teams? It’s essentially the same as it was before!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then at least
You had th option to match, and you get the draft picks as compensation.
It would also allow you to negotiate a one year contract similar to the NFL in terms of agreeing to pay the average of the top 5 players at the position. I am no NFL salary expert so I could have some facts incorrect and for that I apologize.
It just seems inherently wrong that if the Yankees want Holliday, we have absoluteky no chance to retain his services.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You get draft picks as compensation now
The negotiation based on salary structure doesn’t really help matters either. The big market teams are going to drive up the average cost per position with ridiculous contracts because there’s no hard cap.
Bottom line — Franchising doesn’t work without a hard salary cap. It simply doesn’t.
It just seems inherently wrong that if the Yankees want Holliday, we have absoluteky no chance to retain his services.
We have every available opportunity to pay him what the Yankees will pay him. That’s not the issue. The issue is can we afford to compete and pay him that much. The answer is probably no, but it’s not for lack of chance, it’s because of simply economics. Do you think that the NY Giants have been good for as long as they have because they don’t play in a huge media market?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The NFL franchise tag basically owns a player
2 first round picks lost in addition to the fat contract in the NFL are deadly. Franchising an MLB player would take an equivalent like 5 first round picks compensation.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Oct 21, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I don’t see that type of compensation ever happening.
It is deadly in the NFL because there is a hard cap, and you have 22 players who START every week an another 28 you have to pay. I wouldn’t be deadly in baseball because there is no hard salary cap and teams like the Yankees don’t care about losing draft picks to sign great players like Holliday.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if you were to structure a "Franchise" designation
Something like 4-5 1st rounders would be a sufficient deterrent/compensation. (Note: I think the franchise and free agent compensation by losing a draft pick things are really dumb: they’re openly trying to fuck over players.)
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Oct 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
but it was a concession made clear back in the 70’s when players were just trying to get rid of the fucking reserve clause, which openly fucked them over for YEARS. It has been negotiated into a watered down version in every CBA agreement since the first one, the current rules mostly coming out of the ’94 strike.
What I find hilarious is owners bitching about the salary structure currently in place. Had they been a little easier to work with back in the late 60’s and early 70’s instead of so openly hostile, I think player salaries would probably be lower than they are currently. The MLB Players Union is still built on fucking the owners out of every penny they can possibly get and there’s still a ton of hostility on both sides of the isle — a very us vs. them mentality.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No question
They could have built a very owner friendly CBA instead of trying to fight for like 100% of the revenue.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Oct 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is still screwed now
Teams like the Yankees and Mets could give two shits about losing their draft picks when they sign a Type A free agent. They signed Sabathia, Burnett & Texieria. Any one of those guys would be huge free agent signing for one team, let alone the opp to sign all three.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
MLB:
Pro: All players, regardless of status, are cost-controlled by the teams who own the rights to them for their first 6 full seasons in the major leagues. Teams can stockpile and develop talent in a farm system before graduating it to the major leagues and pay those players peanuts to do so.
Con: Everything you mentioned, although I don’t understand how a salary cap helps — dynasties are good for sport, like them or not.
NBA:
Pro: Rookie salary structure, veteran exceptions
Con: Teams can re-sign their own free agents at nearly any $ amount, heavily swaying the structure to the higher market teams; Luxury tax will impact owners how can’t get good attendance at extravagant ticket prices (think Phoenix), Contracts are worth more than the player who has the contract at times — it becomes a game of who can have the most expiring deals vs. who has the most money, causing GM’s to try and game the system by striking deals with cash poor teams (like the Lakers trade for Pau Gasol).
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a luxury tax that is a bit higher
and a salary floor would be interesting. I don’t know if it would be better though.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB
The cost controlled argument is true, but it does not help if you cannot draft a player originally becasue of signability issues.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Signability issues
are bullshit.
Which would you rather have?
Six cost-controlled years of player X for a $8M signing bonus?
OR
Six years of player Y for a 6Y$60M contract?
Isn’t that kind of a no-brainer?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How are they?
Isn’t that why we passed on Porcello?
Isn’t that why the Twins drafted Mauer instead of Prior?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fourstick
So you think MLB’s salary structure is perfect?
I am not saying they should implement any one league’s structure, but take the good aspects of them and mold them into a hybrid for baseball that is beneficial.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not perfect
but grabbing parts of systems that seem to work well in other sports and adding them to baseball is a recipe for disaster, because baseball simply does not work the way other sports do. There are developmental implications for every player in baseball. In fact, the NBA essentially made College Basketball it’s minor league system by raising it’s minimum age requirement a few years ago.
The Rockies made the World Series a few years ago, and look at the parity in the playoff teams in baseball over the last decade. Fewer playoff spots than every other league, but a lot of disparity in who gets there. Spend money and construct rosters wisely and you can compete — you just may not be able to do it every year.
We passed on Porcello because we made the decision not to offer an 18 year old kid a major league contract, not because of his signing bonus. That wasn’t a money issue, it was more of a roster construction one.
The Twins drafted Mauer instead of Prior for many other reasons besides signability.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am in favor
Of a hard cap.
The Twins ended up with the right guy, but I wonder if they could have had Prior for the same price if they would have made the same decision. Especially if Mauer was from Idaho instead of Minnesota.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not
I think it corrupts the system, by allocating less money to players and more money to ownership.
Do you think it’s the ownership that’s opposed to a cap? Outside of Hank Steinbrenner, I HIGHLY DOUBT any owner is opposed to a cap. But the baseball business has been pretty damn good to everyone (i.e. everyone is making money, for the most part) and they aren’t going to risk a work stoppage to impose a salary cap.
The UNION is who is opposed to a cap, and they’ve proved that they will strike when they don’t get what they want because the MLB Players Union does a whole lot more for their players than the NFL or NBA unions do for theirs.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
I don’t think there will be a salary cap after next season in the NFL either. I believe they will replace it with a luxury tax system similar to what the NBA has in place. Teams already get around the cap to do what they want anyway (Redskins), why not let everyone else benefit from it?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of want to see what the Redskins do in an uncapped year
just for the spectacle of it. I can’t imagine how many aging vets Snyder will sign to absurd contracts
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering how much that franchise is worth
It’s sure to be quite the spectacle, especially when they replace Zorn with Shanahan and give him control over personnel decisions. Look out world!!!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Porcello: yes.
Mauer: not necessarily.
But that also isn’t the point. The point is this: just because teams invest their money foolishly does not necessarily mean the money is the issue.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prior
Made more in his first year with the Cubs than Mauer did in his first 3 combined. Considering that Mauer was picked ahead of Prior by the Twins, How is that not a money issue?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money is always an issue.
I would argue that the Twins invested their money more cleverly. But, Mauer is also a Minnesota native. I haven’t seen anything suggesting that the only reason the Twins drafted Mauer first was signability, but that was a long time ago and my memory is fuzzy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was definitely a signability issue.
But Prior failed and Mauer worked out wonderfully (the twins even hired one of Mauer’s relatives to make him more likely to sign). The team took better advantage of their limited resources, and voila, they made the playoffs over a Chicago team that spends out the ass and does it unwisely.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They drafted his brother Jake to make it more likely he'd sign.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prior money
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, not the point.
one team paid huge money, the other just good money, and who came out best?
The Twins didn’t draft Mauer only because he was cheap. They looked at all the factors and made a better decision than the Cubs.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are ignoring
How much Prior’s contract demands helped make the decision for them. Obviously it worked in their favor, but lets just say that Mauer ends up having the injury issues instead of Prior, than that move looks like a disaster.
And the Cardinals passing on Porcello had everything to do with money. He was tops on their draft board and if they could have paid him what they paid Kozma he would be a a Cardinal.
The fact that money paid to the player is in the discussion on whether or not to draft a player shows the system is screwed. You should be drfting the best player available and not have to worry about being able to afford him.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously it worked in their favor, but lets just say that Mauer ends up having the injury issues instead of Prior, than that move looks like a disaster.
This is true whether it’s a salary issue or not. If you bust on a first round pick, it’s always going to be a disaster, especially when that first round pick is the #1 overall, because there’s always going to be someone picked later that makes it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Porcello
Wasn’t about money — it was about giving a 40 man roster spot to an 18 year old kid who’d never thrown a pitch in professional baseball. Turned out good for the Tigers, but he could have been the next Chris Lambert too.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
It was his contract demands on why they passed on him.
The fact remains that the Cardinals did not select the guy who in their eyes was the best player avauilable. How do you not see that being a relevent issue?
In what other sport do teams consistently pass on the better players because of signability issues? What other league has players get drafted only for them to re-enter the draft the next year so another team willing to pay more money can draf them?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What good is the draft?
If the teams who need the talent the most cannot afford to draft the guys who would help the most?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually a proponent of getting rid of the draft entirely
I think it would be much more fair if everyone could bid on amateur players on the open market like we do in Latin America, only the age you could sign would be age 18 as it currently is for the draft. I think this would lead to more competition for the better prospects, and agents would have less to do with it overall.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a difference between
“We didn’t want to pay him”
and
“We didn’t want to give him a big league contract”
Those are two separate issues, they are not one in the same.
In what other sport do the top 30 picks in the draft flame out at a 50% rate? Answer: None. So you can’t compare. Plus, there are no minor league systems in those sports, so you take the best player available and hope he helps you win — if you fuck up, well, you lose. Simple as that. Sam Bowie over Micheal Jordan happens EVERY FUCKING YEAR in baseball. Every year. It doesn’t in those other sports.
The bottom line here is that you should be picking the best player available, regardless of signability. If that’s the best guy, you take him. The Tigers have been very successful with this strategy despite not being one of the top 5 teams in payroll in the MLB.
Your argument is bullshit — it’s far cheaper to pay the guy his big bonus if you think he’s going to be a big league talent, like Aaron Crow, like Stephen Strasburg, than it is to find that comparable talent on the free agent market for the same price.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where
was I arguing that it was cheaper to pay money for a FA than to draft a high bonus player?
I am not even sure what your point is.
All I was saying is the teams with the most money do not have to worry about passing on a premiere player in the draft because of the contract that player would demand.
Your Jordan-Bowie scenario is not apt because teams did not skip over Jordan due to his asking price. The problem is when teams identify potentially the best player available and do not draft him because they cannot afford to, so another team that can later in the draft does.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You obviously are missing my points entirely
Jordan-Bowie is not about “asking prices”, it’s about the fact that great players get taken after players who flame out every single year in the MLB draft, whereas it doesn’t happen so often in other leagues, and the cost of doing so in every other league is enormous. I’d rather have Strasburg flame out on me at $15M (highest signing bonus EVER for an MLB player) than JaMarcus Russell at $60M or Darko Milicic at $30M.
All I was saying is the teams with the most money do not have to worry about passing on a premiere player in the draft because of the contract that player would demand.
And what I’m saying is:
Neither should any other team if that’s truly the player you want.
Salary caps and slotting and all that other shit don’t change that fact.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your arguments are populist
They sound really, really good because they make it look like you’re trying to stick it to “the man”, but they aren’t based in reality and they make you look petty.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rams. . .
would like to talk to you about your contention that Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan doesn’t happen every year in the NFL.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Oct 21, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(like the Lakers trade for Pau Gasol).
This is going to happen to Chris Paul as well.
"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does all the work"
-Mark Twain
by Taskmaster on Oct 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When they get up to $300M
the luxury tax REALLY starts to take it’s toll. They’d essentially be financing the bottom lines of most of the teams in the MLB at that point.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which actually brings up a more important reform than a cap....
ALL players should have to go through the draft, and there should be a draftee salary scale, rather than the slotted bonuses that some teams follow and some teams ignore.
Then teams that struggle will have better odds at getting more of the best talent and teams like the Yankees can’t just buy themselves a solid farm system to trade and make call-ups from.
If you make it to free agency and the Yankees want to spend 20M a on you, more power to you, but there needs to be some level of fairness in who gets the best shot at foreign born players when they’re first being signed to minor league deals.
by mtalken on Oct 21, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or you go the opposite way...
and do away with the draft altogether by letting teams openly bid for amateur players on the open market. Place age restrictions on Latin born players like we do for US born players (i.e. they have to be 18 before they can sign a contract).
Does anyone really think that a bunch of kids are going to sign with the Yankees when they have a whole system full of great talent, when they could sign with the Reds and have a better shot at making the big leagues? We have parity in college basketball for just this reason. Not every High School All American wants to play for Duke, because they can’t all PLAY for Duke when they could play 35 minutes a game at another school.
I think there are merits to both sides of this argument, I just don’t think that adding foreign born players to the draft process is going to solve a lot of problems.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt
The kids from the Domincan would care about not getting a chance to play if they were collecting millions on the bench.
Hmmm play for the Yankees minor league team and get paid millions or play for the Reds at a fraction of the salary…
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record
I think the Japanese players should have to declare for the draft. MLB is the only league that has an American-only type draft.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, that's what YOU THINK
But my guess is that his wouldn’t happen, because it doesn’t happen in any other sport or league, including EPL soccer.
The Rule V draft alone would prevent stockpiling. Do you really want to be the team that develops a whole shitload of talent at huge $$$ amounts and then have to give it all up in a Rule V draft? I really, really doubt it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imbalanced resources are a symptom, not a cause
The main cause of the problem of imbalanced resources is the poor revenue sharing system that allow big market teams to rake in the money. Make teams pay much more of their local revenues into a shared pool and many of the imbalance problems would be greatly solved.
by bailorg on Oct 21, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That won't happen ...
until they also start enforcing a reasonable spending floor for teams. The fact that certain teams pocket the revenue sharing now makes it incredibly difficult to approve increases in the revenue sharing.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all this talk of backups. Who is Boog's backup, really?
He has eight more fingers to unwittingly injure.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lugo or Tyler Greene?
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lugo
Tyler if he goes on the DL
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably Tyler Greene.
Of course, that condemns us to yet another year of having fiteen middle infielders on the roster.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the cardinals are going to petition MLB
to allow tyler greene to stand a few feet behind julio lugo at shortstop.
by DanUpBaby on Oct 21, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
part of thinks the only reason
TLR is so high on Freese now is because everyone else likes Craig so much…i would like to think someone of Tony’s stature is above that but i would bet my house on it…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
That’s not really so crazy, at least it doesn’t sound so crazy.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if it's posturing
maybe for negotiations on a short deal with Glaus?
by brackenthebox on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am not sold on Freese at all
and would welcome a short cheap Santa deal…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm done with Troy Glass, personally.
Freese I can get behind, or even DeRo, but I have no interest in Glaus.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I rank them
Freese>Glaus>DeRosa
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
I think Glaus ismost likely to be the best of them on offense, and his Glass-ness would be remedied by Freese.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And defense.
Glaus is a good defender, certainly better than DeRosa and maybe Freese.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glaus is an average defender, probably not as good as Freese,
but our infield D is already going to be very good. Glaus is the kind of hitter we need. Unless Pineiro comes back, our infield can only save so many runs.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But 3B is one of the few positions
We can filly cheaply with a quality product. I would rather take that savings and apply it somewhere else
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've only seen Freese play a handful of times.
And I haven’t seen any metrics on him. I’ll take RB’s testimony that he is very good. Still, I’m warming up to the idea of a low-base, high-incentive, one-year deal for Glaus with Freese as the backup.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can i ask why?
not to be a smart ass but i dont see what there is to like about Freese other than one good year in 2008 and a couple hits in September.
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freese
1- He’s really good with the glove. I saw him enough at Memphis to say that with complete confidence.
2- He’s free.
3- He has pretty good power.
4- See #s 1 and 2
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is really a major league average bat paired with plus D
I just love guys that are huge on the glove side.
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a Freese/Ryan/Pujols/Yadi/improved Skip infield is awesome D
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly agree
but I am curious what you mean by an improved Skip? I think his second half of the season defense is about his full potential. He will never have outstanding range, but he won’t be a liability. His overall defensive numbers for the year will be better, but I imagine he will be at about the same level as he finished the season.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
by giveml on Oct 21, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree that Skippeh has reached his full potential.
All of last off season, Skip focused his training on being an outfielder. He has had his trainer gear him more towards Fast twitch and flexibility regimens for this off season.
Linky in case you missed it.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I saw it
I’m just not buying that a 30 year old can make a huge difference in his fast twitch. He might be able to stave off decline, but I wouldn’t bet on significant improvement.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
by giveml on Oct 21, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes but
1- his glove isnt anything but at best marginally better than Glaus, if that
2- the discussion is getting Glaus cheap and they can afford it this offseason unless they plan on extending Pujols
3- he doesnt have near the power of Glaus
4- he hasnt shown near the on-base skills that Glaus has
so basically he is not nearly as good as Glaus just cheaper…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course
if it the difference in signing Holliday or if Glaus isnt healthy enough than going with Freese is acceptable. but if we dont sign Holliday there is better money to be spent on 3B. i would love to make a run at the Figgins and Abreu to fill those to spots.
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A prayer for Albert
Dear Lord baby Jesus, lyin’ there in your ghost manger, just lookin’ at your Baby Einstein developmental videos, learnin’ ’bout shapes and colors. I would like to ask for your protection for the elbow of The Mang, Albert Pujols. Please deposit one of your sweet little baby kisses on his Ulnar Collateral Ligament and a separate kiss upon the head of every person in the operating room. Amen.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions 16 recs
I will look into this for you
But I am not promising any miracles
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for the Cubs to win the World Series (Luke 18:25)"
by JesusChrist on Oct 21, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought that's what you do?
Mizzou 37 - Illinois 9
by STLRegalia on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also belongs to BCB
Although that may be to smote them.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus digs Baby Einstein.
I know he’s the savior of man and all but c’mon, Mary and Joseph have shit to do okay?
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Painguy
I take that post as maybe possibly a slur on Christianity and I’m a little offended by it. I take my Lord seriously and there is no need with all the other places to find humor to go there. NOT funny to me.
by ridgesee on Oct 21, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't watch trashy movies, thank you
by ridgesee on Oct 21, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it don't star kirk cameron
i ain’t a-watchin it!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tudor, between this and the S&D quote below, you're on a roll.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wasn't trashy, it was just bad, horrible movie
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 21, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which movie were you watching?!?
a half-nekkid will ferrell, driving over the speed limit, french people…they should have called the movie “the ballad of sodom and gomorrah”!
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ricky Bobby was atrocious
BUT it has some pure gold quotes.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Oct 21, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
America is all about speed.
Hot, nasty, badass speed. -Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any movie were Will Ferrell is the main actor
I hate the movie except Stranger than Fiction
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
the one movie that will ferrell fans either don’t know about or don’t like.
I will openly admit to loving Talledega Nights, Anchorman, Step Brothers, and lots of cowbell
Mizzou 37 - Illinois 9
by STLRegalia on Oct 21, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got to go to the screening of Stranger than Fiction
in St Louis, and the theater was half full of Wash U ids who just thought they were supposed to laugh whenever Will ferrell did anything. It was super awkward. Good movie, though.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would have been funny.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 21, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't watch it, and i will never watch it
i can tell from the previews it sucked & i was told by some friends it sucked. ferrell’s act is getting old too.
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 21, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Act?
And I assume you couldn’t see the difference between Blue Steel™ and Magnum™.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's funnier if you watch it in a big group of people.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 21, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought this site
had guidelines of no politic and no religion. When people can start taking user names of Jesus Christ and people can start poking fun at the name of my Lord, you can have this site. thats going too far.
by ridgesee on Oct 21, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im pretty sure your the only one making it religious...
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you'll be missed.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
until he rises from the grave 3 days later.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Oct 21, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
they always come back...
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Oct 21, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's from a movie.
I’m very religious as well. I don’t think painguy or anyone else was intending to be religious or insulting.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 21, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get your panties all in a twist...
it’s from a movie. Besides if Jesus doesn’t like it, Painguy will be dually smoted in good time.
MB for LF in 2010!
by guayzimi on Oct 21, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my fav slipnot song.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Oct 21, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering the number of recs you got,
I’d say a whole lot of people were offended. It’s just that a few of them, in their rage-blinded clicking accidentally clicked rec instead of flag.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a charter member to the flying lasagna monster religion
i am both appalled & aroused by your statements
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 21, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, whoa,
are you seriously coming on here to pimp your obviously inferior made up pasta deity when we all know the true savior is the flying SPAGHETTI monster?!
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garfield the Cat started the chuch of the flying lasagna monster years ago
long before the hack who ripped him off started that spaghetti cult
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 21, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gdm, I never took you for an alfredo-brained prosteletyzer for false gods!
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what can i say?
i love me some Garfield, and i love me some cheese
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 21, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's the definition of a successful Jesuit liturgy?
… nobody was hurt.
Ba-dum-ching!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Oct 21, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This places has different rules for different people it seems...
You can’t mention up religion, unless it’s to bash it or make fun of it, you can’t bring up politics, unless it’s left wing (see all that Che stuff for instance. Never mind he was in reality a racist murderer, lefties love him, so it’s okay to have his imagine everyone, even defacing that of this sports’s mascot).
by DiscoJer on Oct 21, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh come on...
the comment in question was alluding to a movie…..and the che shirt is mocking the hipsters who where them without knowing what kind of villain che actually is…
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
"OHHHHH!!!!!!! IT TASTES. SO. GOOD!!!!!!!!!!"
-BOOOOOOOOG
by slu on Oct 21, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been around here for two years, and ...
I haven’t seen it that way. We try to avoid the topics all together. Occasionally, someone just can’t contain themselves and they slip up. Most of the time we try to ignore it if it’s a minor outbreak. If it’s sustained, then somebody usually says to knock it off. If it goes on too long, then somebody gets banned. I do get the feeling there are a fair number of liberals lurking in this forum, but if it were truly pervasive I’d have stopped coming some time back. Not that I don’t get along with those who think differently than I, but I don’t really care what anybody on a sports blog has to say about politics or religion. I suspect the other members here couldn’t care less about my views, either.
Thepainguy offered a sincere apology, and the topic really ought to drop there. I’ve been chastised on here for things that I didn’t find controversial, but good manners and decorum dictates that you simply apologize for the offense and move on.
I find it somewhat distasteful the number of people that feel it is ok to chastise ridgesee for being offended, though, as I felt he was fairly respectful in bringing the matter up.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with almost all of what you said
I think a lot of people need to listen to Sgt Hulka and lighten the fuck up…Francis.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 21, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly, I agree.
But you never know what any one person’s sacred cow is going to be, and if you happen to gore it accidentally you really ought to own up to it and apologize in a civil forum such as this. Otherwise, the offense wasn’t nearly as accidental as it may have seemed.
As a matter of fact, I think you were one of the two that jumped on me for what was an innocent statement on my part earlier this year in a game thread. I still don’t believe in the interpretation, but it doesn’t really matter. The point is that it made at least two members of the board uncomfortable, and I don’t feel that I have a right as part of this community to make others feel that way on purpose.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols Sucks
I probably offended some people there
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh.
I had no idea you were being ironical with the Che shirts. I actually just thought you were part of the cult.
by etp_stl on Oct 22, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am well versed in Latin American history
I am an admirer of Che for plenty of reasons that will insult most people here so I don’t talk about it.
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 22, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can hardly believe that was me
It was probably some other matty ( the rest can be real jerks sometimes). If it really was me, then you probably deserved it.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 22, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong.
I’m not upset with you at all. I wrote something that was interpreted a different way than I ever anticipated. I just brought it up to make the point that even when you don’t think what you did was wrong, it’s a whole lot easier to just apologize and move on.
by etp_stl on Oct 22, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong
I was being totally sarcastic, I believe sometimes that being a sarcastic asshole is the only way to go.
Being serious for a second thought, I totally agree with you on the apologizing and moving on part.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 23, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can stuff your sorry's in a sack asshole
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 23, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am actually never really sorry
but douchebags usually believe it and move on.
I mean yeah, I usually feel really bad about what I have said.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 23, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really just read the "sorry and move on" strategy ....
and it sounded like something people would fall for. I actually find that keeping a list of those that I offend is the best way to deal with it. Then, when you’re having a bad day you can pull it out. Seeing it get longer always brings a smile to my face.
by etp_stl on Oct 24, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
am I now on your list?
if so, I am sorry for all I said
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 24, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see.
If I accept the sorry, am I then a douchebag? I just can’t take that chance.
by etp_stl on Oct 24, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
would you be offended by that?
I should really start a list like that of my own.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 24, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
better to have a list
than be the list, I’d say.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Oct 24, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have the list is normal
it starts getting weird when you start putting on lipstick
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 24, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea where that came from
but it wouldn’t surprise me at all that you would know this.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 24, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice catch.
That was the reference I was making.
by etp_stl on Oct 25, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm no fan of che myself
I, personally, read the shirts (which I thought were pretty funny) as making fun of the cult of che guevara personality that has developed around the fact that he was a total cutie in some lithograph. I think we’re pretty strict about politics here, and I also don’t think we’ve done anything to moderate in any one direction.
by DanUpBaby on Oct 22, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm afraid I can't apologize to you,
since you’ve failed to exercise a hint of charity, or to understand irony. Good day.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 22, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm insulted
he didn’t just pray directly to Pujols.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Albert=JEBUS=son of GOB?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, no
it’s Albert’s elbow.
he can’t put both of his hands on it.
= we’re DOOMED.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relief
RB – do you think that Franklin will stick in the closer role in 2010, and is there anyway we get some right handed bullpen help, whether through internal growth or FA signing? I honestly don’t believe McClellan is fit to be the full time 8th inning man over an entire season, and would almost prefer he gets a shot at starter, if for no other reason than there have been so many articles and comments in the past about his potential for that transition. I’m hoping that Motte will be more consistent, and depending on what happens with Boggs and Hawksworth they could bolster things. What are your thoughts?
Red Means Go.
by bigwilley18 on Oct 21, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I want Eduardo Sanchez in the 2010 'pen.
I agree with KMac not really being a short reliever; not enough empty swings for me. I really like Boggs in relief, if only someone would tell him 96 with wiffle ball action doesn’t have to be on the corner. just throw it down the fucking middle. What the Cardinals really need to do is give a couple of their young fireballers a crack at the bullpen.
I wonder what everyone would think about Billy Wagner on a one or two-year deal? He’s still got it, and at this point in his career would probably take a one year deal with a vesting sort of option. Not sure about the cost, but he just might be worth it if you’re going inexpensive at CF and 3B and both MI positions.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am firmly on the Wagner bandwagon.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am also on said bandwagon
I don’t think there is a chance in hell of it happening though. Well unless he comes in as a setup man, because I don’t think Tony moves Franklin out of the closer role until he literally implodes. Yes, I meant LITERALLY!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Oct 21, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As though this is not predictable enough,
Wagner would be worth it, if the money was right, but he seems like a player more preoccupied than most with getting his money. In his extremely savvy negotiations, he got the Red Sox to agree to forego arbitration by trading for him. His last contract paid $10.5M per season. He won’t eclipse that, but I assume that’s what he’s shooting for.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
KMac
Am I the only one who think KMac is overrated?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read the above comments?
You certainly are not.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is not overrated on this board.
Folks have serious misgivings about his high walk rate and low strikeout rate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I can’t recall being impressed with him at any point this year.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1000 times no you aren't
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 21, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
I’m not sure I would see those negotiations as a negative. He and his representatives saw for themselves what the Type A designation did to several other players the previous offseason, and took steps to use their leverage to avoid such a fate. Smart move, if you ask me.
If he’s looking for an AAV of ten mil, though, bail.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, him getting away from the type A points to some intelligent planner,
angling for a bit payday this offseason.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's money, but not draft picks, then, right?
That changes the salary analysis a little bit. But, $10MM is too much.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't
think he is that good as a reliever and think him being a starter is an absolute disaster. I also thought the same thing of Braden Looper…
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you talking about McClellan again?
Or Wagner? Because no, I don’t think Billy Wagner in the rotation is a good idea.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden to close, Wagner to start?
Dave Duncan’s ears are burning.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I'm just not sure I see that as the negative you do.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously it would be better for us if we do sign him,
allowing us to keep our pick, it just scares me that Wagner’s people understand this.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another facet
is he wants to close and rack up saves. he wants the best fit for this, and that draft pick would limit his options to basically big-market teams that already have closers. there is a financial angle, yes, but there’s also this desire to close, maybe for his HOF legacy.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Oct 21, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HOF
He is close to his 400th save and could earn it next year, perhaps by May’s end, if he is a closer from Opening Day.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so do you agree
that this factored into his thinking, and it wasn’t only about the money? Weigh each as you like, but it definitely earns him points with me.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Oct 21, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez
I agree that it would be interesting to see what Sanchez can bring to the mix, but I wonder if they will wait to bring him up later in the season, as so many top-tier relievers seem to be held back almost on purpose to make a big impact late (K-Rod’s emergence with the Halos comes to mind).
If we’re going go with the cheaper, internal options around the field, it’d be nice to see the team give Eduardo a shot. Thanks for the response!
Red Means Go.
by bigwilley18 on Oct 21, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starting Sanchez in the minors
would prevent TLR from using him 111 times, which isn’t a bad thing.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's entirely possible,
and it probably wouldn’t be too bad a thing, but I loooove what that kid brings. His stuff is just unreal.
Maybe Adam Ottavino gets an apprenticeship year in the ‘pen. He’s got the stuff, and he could air it out without worrying too much about all that pitchery stuff he struggles a bit with.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it that teams don't bring up unknown AA/AAA relievers with explosive stuff to pitch in the playoffs more often?
I assume they have the same data on lack of familiarity that we do.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Tony La Russa, that's why.
And I don’t mean that as an insult. But just think, Tony would never, ever do that, and Tony is still one of the more experimental managers in the game. The manager feeling comfortable with the relievers he has is much more important than the other team being uncomfortable facing said reliever, at least to the man making out the lineup card.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see that,
but I was thinking more about smaller market teams that have less to lose and so are better served with bigger gambles. In a way this is what happened for us with Kinney as well. Now that he’s been injured and figured out, he’s much less effective than when batters really just didn’t have much of a clue what he was going to throw and where.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nonono.
I understand your point, and I’m saying it has everything to do with the culture. It’s the same argument everyone has when someone argues against using sabermetrics as a manager with the line, “Well then, why doesn’t anyone do that?” Because the managers are all so set in their ways it doesn’t matter if it’s a good idea, they just don’t look at the game any way but the way they were taught when they were coming up.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Riiiiiiight.
I’m with you.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
imagine the post-game press conference. What manager wants to have the season end with an “unproven” reliever surrendering a game-losing homer?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's such a frustrating mindset.
No chances are ever taken, because if you’re the guy who goes with the conventional wisdom and it fails, hey, that’s baseball. If, on the other hand, you’re the guy who goes with the outlandish choice based on some advanced metric Joe Morgan doesn’t like and it fails, you’re a crazy maverick making bad decisions and you lose your job. Ugh.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a way,
I don’t blame the manager entirely for this. His job is on the line. Postseason exploits last long in the minds of those who follow a club. And, often, the owners don’t know that much about baseball and get their information from sportswriters opining on the manager. If the writers were less closed-minded, it would be easier to take risks because the media wouldn’t skewer you for something not working when that something is outside of convention.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
It’s the whole th
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See? Weird shit keeps happening!
Anyway, I was saying it’s the whole thing. The GM, the owner, the media, all of ’em. Too much status quo, and too much incentive for everyone to keep it there.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it'll stay that way.
You will start to see the Sabermetrics methods start to infiltrate the game over the next generation, but it is an old culture and turns like a battleship.
The other issue is the current trend that if you were a great player it’s a given that you’ll be a great coach/manager. You have very few people that can both play a sport at the highest level and do extensive statistical analysis. You will also have a hard time convincing people that have been around the game all their lives that they’ve been approaching it wrong all these years.
Those two things will make it take a fairly long time before the advanced metrics are used to replace the old baseball adages.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know any great players
that are managers. Or coaches in NBA. Or NFL head coaches. So I don’t know what this trend is.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Oct 21, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is definitely prevalent in baseball, ...
and to some extent you’ve seen it in hockey, too. I don’t know how you can say they haven’t done it in the NBA, as it wasn’t that long ago that you had Isaih Thomas and Larry Bird trying to coach there. The problem is that very few that excel at anything have the patience and communication skills necessary to teach another person how to maximize their potential. Typically, the best coaches are the ones that had to fight and claw their way to stay just above replacement level. They simply had to learn more about the game to stay.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are not telling me
anything I don’t know. Currently, in the NBA, because I could name Russell too. Seems the trend is the other way. And it is prevalent in baseball? Which manager was a great player? Torre had an MVP season, but…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Oct 21, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, ...
I would say Ozzie Guillen and Mike Scioscia were both pretty good players, too. It goes on more at the coaches level, too.
by etp_stl on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frank Robinson managed until 2006.
He’s a HOFer.
by spants on Oct 22, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
guillen and scioscia
were gritty, not great. where is this trend? the head guys in MLB, NBA, and NFL – it is the oppo of what you are saying, full of career minor leaguers, role players, etc. Was Frank Robinson a trend? Was Dusty Baker, or Byron Scott, or Phil Jackson great players? There are ZERO. That’s some trend.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Oct 22, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do think there is a trend for
making great players into coaches, because ownership thinks those guys will sell tickets. This is especially true in the NBA.
I do think that it’s being tried in baseball as well. How many Cubs fans do you see pining for Ryne Sandberg to be the manager in Chicago? Frank Robinson was a HOF player for Baltimore — so the MLB made him the manager of the new Nationals team when they moved it to DC? Why? I’m assuming because they though it would sell some tickets.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 22, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was never trendy
so I’m apparently missing this NBA thing. I can’t think of one current NBA coach who was even the best player on his team when he played. Most were glue/intangible guys or gritty point guards, and then there’s the popovich’s and van gundy’s of the world. Dunleavy is probably the best former player currently coaching, and he was not great. Since bird, magic, thomas, etc. are no longer coaching, seems the trend is in the opposite direction, and I don’t believe it was a trend in the first place unless 3 of 30 coaches meets the criteria of a trend. To me the trend is in broadcasting.
In regard to Frank Robinson, he wasn’t just plucked out of nowhere. He had managed before. And Ryne Sandberg is a manager in Cubs minors, paying his dues, If he succeeds Lou, will that one guy really constitute a trend? Or, are we disagreeing on the definition of “great”. Because remove that adjective and I agree – most head coaches and managers are former pro players, as one would expect.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Oct 22, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right.
It’s probably more a gut feeling from the amount of clamoring that you get from so many places for former players to become coaches. Trend is probably not the correct word.
I respect the attitude of a guy like Tony Gwynn. I was told that when he was asked about being a hitting coach, he always responded by saying that he couldn’t teach what he did. He said that his approach was to see the ball and hit the ball. The fact that he had an uncanny ability for hand-eye coordination doesn’t necessarily qualify him as a coach.
by etp_stl on Oct 22, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree with you on that
great players have physical gifts that are not teachable. Bird was an exception as coach because his greatness did not come from physical gifts. Otherwise, a great player only gets frustrated as a coach because the game just doesn’t come so easily to his players and he can’t understand this.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Oct 22, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Marshall Faulk was another one of those. He was asked one day about becoming a coach, and his response was that he wouldn’t do it because he wouldn’t have any patience for somebody that didn’t do it right. He may have been one of the smartest football players I’ve ever watched, and I’m sure he could wear you out talking about the game. Yet, he chooses not to coach because he knows he wouldn’t be a good teacher. I’m always impressed by someone acknowledging their own limitations.
by etp_stl on Oct 22, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take exception to the idea
that Isiah Thomas was trying to coach. I think the Knicks ownership was “trying” to make him look like a buffoon because he stuck to them for all those years as a player. Watching Thomas try to coach an NBA team was like watching a 3 year old “try” to fly an airplane.
FWIW, though, there have been a lot of very good NBA players that have turned into very good coaches. Bill Russell, Phil Jackson, and Lenny Wilkins immediately come to mind, and Bird took his Indiana teams to the Conference Finals and Finals in his seasons as coach — I don’t know how you can say that Larry wasn’t a good coach.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 22, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After robot umps, I say we go for robot writers.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are coming!
At least robots that can write game stories.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HFS
Does anybody else feel like the Matrix is right around the corner?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless
we’re already there!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Oct 21, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if this is my matrix,
i want my fucking money back
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
by gdm426 on Oct 21, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Matrix has no spoons and no refunds.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 22, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The manager should just have a 2009 postseason closer blowups highlight reel,
pop it in, and let it speak for itself.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Before we get started, I just have a short video that I think will make my thoughts on tonight’s game much clearer.”
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would pay good money to see that happen. Just once.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine Straussie at that press conference...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y/N Sign Holliday?
If no, how/where would you utilize all the “dry powder?”
by goslinkygo on Oct 21, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I say yes.
He’s an awfully good player, even at big money.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Y/N Can the Cardinals realistically afford him?
I’m thinking like 2011, 2012 – can they really have Holliday and Pujols for the next 6 years?
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
by IHeartBoog on Oct 21, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends.
If they’re willing to push payroll to ~$110 million or so, then yes. If not, then no, but if that’s the case, I doubt they keep Albert around, either.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If not, then no
Agreed with one caveat. You could still make it work with a $100 mill payroll if the Cards were willing to start kids from Memphis foregoing players like Glaus, DeRosa, K. Greene or Juan E. Tony is not a manager traditionally willing to do this so it would take quite a change in organizational philosophy. Also, it would mean no extension of Carp. With 45% of the payroll in two players, it would be tough but not impossible.
by jjray on Oct 21, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, fair enough, I suppose.
It could be done, but I think at that point your margin for error shrinks to the point that it really defeats the purpose of having these two gigantes on your team.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and by dry powder are you talking about cocaine
or fresh-cut heroin?
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This ain't Amsterdam, nomar. This is a seller's market.
Coke is f*cking dead as… dead. Heroin, it’s coming back in a big f*cking way.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Oct 21, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for Pulp Fiction reference.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Too much money to be profitable, even if he performs like he always has. Plus, it would muck up our contract situation with Pujols.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 21, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: TV provider
DirecTV, DishNetwork or UVerse? Which one and why?
I just bought a new house and need to decide which provider to go with. Its the most important decision I can make as a homeowner/
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you can get UVerse, grab hold and don't let go.
Outside of that, I like DirecTV better than Dish, just because of their sports package.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've had all three
and am with UVerse now. Love it.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alxfritz
Since you had all 3 can I ask what you love about UVerse more than the other two.
By the way I have Charter now and refuse to go that route.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their HD is better, it doesn't go out during storms
built in wireless, great customer service, being able to record and watch on seperate boxes, having ondemand again… I could go on and on…
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am definitely
Going to go with AT&T for internet, but their TV package is the most expensive of the 3, plus they do not have MLB Network which I love.
Its such a touh choice. I heard horror stories about DirecTV’s customer service.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not having mlb tv is my only complaint.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is UVerse?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UVerse
is AT&T’s cable TV package
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AT&T's fiber optic broadband service.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
shit
how come i didnt know about this i have ATT internet and cell phone service…this looks AWESOME!!! i hate Mediacom and i cant get HD on my Dish Network because i just had to live in a neighborhood with a lot of trees…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my exp w/ U-verse vs Charter
Just bought a new house (STL area) and I’ve tried both services
U-verse
+’s: way better DVR (can rewind longer than 30 min on live tv, schedule shows via online), less delay in channel changing, HD streams are SOLID
-’s: only 2 live HD streams concurrently per house
Charter
+’s: 5MB internet, 3 HD streams
-’s: choppy HD streams (at times), super lag in channel changing, DVR is AWFUL, promotional pricing
by rmtx97 on Oct 21, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
forgot
price is ~$110 for each
U-verse: internet speed 1.5MB
Charter: internet speed 5MB
by rmtx97 on Oct 21, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can get faster internet than that on Uverse
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I have.
it jams overall.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jams = rocks out
or
jams = stops and goes
?
"There's a lot of things we say that don't make sense to our viewers. Okay, primarily me." ~Al Hrabosky~
by YesWeOquendo on Oct 21, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jams = rules
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jams = unusually long short pants?
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought
jams= pulped fruit
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 21, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
but it costs more
i’m trying to show everything I get from either option at around the same price
2 TV boxes, 1 with DVR with highspeed internet
by rmtx97 on Oct 21, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
What is the setup of the UVerse? Is it a pain?
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the opposite.
the AT&T guys did everything for me, including running new lines and moving some old ones in my backyard that they didn’t have to, just felt like being nice.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty straightforward
drill holes for wiring, feed cable to your TVs.
My AT&T install was more favorable than the Charter one, just based on the AT&T guy helping me move stuff and teaching me how to DVR. The Charter guy installed and left.
For U-verse, just be sure that your house is close enough to your neighborhoods station so you get the 2 HD streams.
I cancelled Uverse cause I could only get 1 at a time. Now I’m grumbling with charter when Uverse called me back and said they could get 2HD streams to my house now. I’m thinking about going back.
Now I know why all my neighbors have a dish. Might have to do something with my hood being a newer smaller one built inside an older one.
by rmtx97 on Oct 21, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you live in Southern California?
‘cause if you’re like me, the first time a heavy rain or snow makes you miss a big game you’ll end up fixing your dish with a shotgun.
by sdrone on Oct 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another UVerse limitation
Right now you can only rewind live TV on the primary TV. The function doesn’t work on any other TV in the house. It’s not a huge deal, but it’s a PITA when you’re used to having a DVR.
With Charter I’d gotten into the habit of only kinda sorta paying attention to games and then backing up to watch key events. Now that’s harder to do.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's very odd
That would seem to affect the whole “record 2 things at once” idea.
oh wait – you only get 1 true DVR, right? And all the other boxes are just players?
by sdrone on Oct 21, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
I don’t know the architecture of the system, but I think the hard drive of the DVR is back at some central hub. All you have in the house are basically decoder boxes. That’s why any box in the house can record any program that’s recorded on any TV (which IS cool).
I think this is some software switch that they have flipped to off for some reason.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just one TV has the DVR with HD
The rest of the boxes read off that box
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can get Verizon Fios, get it
(which you can’t if you’re in STL.) Otherwise, get UVerse
by mattyp on Oct 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much are you paying for FIOS?
Honest question, from what I hear they are having a lot of problems price pointing to stay competitive while making enough revenue to cover the maintenance expenses of the all fiber network.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i pay 125 for 5mb/20mb net and their full tv package w/ all movie channels and HD stuff
dunno about their profits but thats a good deal for me
by FunkeeC on Oct 21, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, that's a pretty good deal.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 22, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If, like me, you can't get cable
and the choice is between DirecTV and Dish, I’d recommend DirecTV (and not just because we can both get $100 off next month’s bill).
I’ve had DirecTV since the mid-’90’s while my sister and her son both have Dish. DirecTV has, at least it seems to me, more choices and a better sports package. ‘Course I pay a bit more than she does ’cause I didn’t go all cheap on my package either. The rain-outs do bug me, but, like I said, my only other alternative is over the air (which I barely get now due to the switch to digital) so I live with it.
by ArkansasTravs on Oct 21, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UVerse's SD image quality sucks for football
I haven’t seen their HD picture, but they are compressing the hell out of their SD signal, and the codec sucks, and it makes football very hard to watch. Baseball isn’t terrible.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
HD
HD is important, but not every TV I own has HD capabiity. Thanks for the info.
by Salti Cracker on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The HD feed always looks great to me,
but I’ve only seen it at my friends’ houses who live in UVerse available areas.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They compress EVERYTHING heavily
I have not seen their HD pic yet despite the fact that I know a bunch of people who have it, but they’re bringing in minimum 2 streams of HD video over a single pair of copper. Something’s gotta suffer.
by sdrone on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DirecTV
is actually mashing FOUR HD streams into the same amount of bandwidth as AT&T is using for two, if AT&T’s service is similar to ours, which I’m guessing it is since cable TV is pretty much a similar architecture everywhere.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the codec and/or chipset may be different
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bandwidth is bandwidth
Codec or not. You can’t tell me that mashing four streams with a better codec will look better than two streams, ever. Especially on a really good TV.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have seen some really shitty MPEG encodes
We sold a software based encoder that could kick a hardware-based, real time encoder’s ass every time.
The problem was that we couldn’t encode on the fly. Of course that was also a feature because we could do multi-pass encodes.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're confusing me
Cable TV has a lot of bandwidth available. A lot. So they don’t need to worry about things that ATT (Uverse) and satellite providers worry about.
by sdrone on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also have carriage and franchise contracts
that other providers do not have, and they have a limited amount of bandwidth, whereas satellite is nearly boundless at this point.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Satellite is not boundless
I’m not sure why you’d think that. You only have an 18" or 24" dish on your end, and you’re limited power wise in space.
Contracts don’t affect bandwidth. You’ve got a coax cable. That defines your bandwidth.
by sdrone on Oct 21, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contract DO effect bandwidth
It’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about right now. Being required to carry local stations’ HD product effects bandwidth, plain and simple. Being required to carry local stations SD product in an analog state also effects bandwidth. Literally, in some markets you’re looking at 20-30 HD channels and 120 SD channels worth of space for that amount of bandwidth alone. Trust me, man, I’ve been in this business for nearly 10 years.
How do you think that cable companies get their signals? From satellites in outer space, specifically HITS (Head End in The Sky). The only limitation to satellite bandwidth is the satellites, and when you can spread that cost out to 100 million customers, it’s easy to keep launching bigger and better satellites, as DirecTV and Echostar have done forever. The dish on your house can get a whole lot bigger before it becomes a huge problem mechanically.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So in other words....
Cable = Fixed width pipe.
Satellite = Expandable pipe (in steps).
Makes sense.
Stupid George Gilder microcosm crapola.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, exactly
The only way your cable provider can offer you more channels is to keep compressing things with newer codecs, or dump the analog band, which is really the only competitive advantage that a lot of providers have over satellite any more.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to argue ...
1. a requirement to carry local HD products doesn’t affect bandwidth, because you are simply nowhere near the limitation of the cable – and that’s looking at the coax into the house (800mhz to 1ghz of bandwidth), and not the fiber/coax that comes to your block.
2. Cable companies are reducing the number of analog stations carried, not increasing it. Local Comcast in Chicagoland, for instance, is probably under 80 and dropping. All of the high numbers standard def channels are digital only. You get rid of 1 analog station that uses 6mhz of space, , you can add 1 to 4 HD digital stations for about the same bandwidth or 8 to 10 SD channels.
3. DirecTV and Echostar are lauching satellites because they keep running out of bandwidth. I stopped following this years ago when I dropped satellite, but at that point they were 3 to 4 years behind on their satellite launch schedule.
by sdrone on Oct 21, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is simply untrue.
a requirement to carry local HD products doesn’t affect bandwidth, because you are simply nowhere near the limitation of the cable – and that’s looking at the coax into the house (800mhz to 1ghz of bandwidth), and not the fiber/coax that comes to your block.
The spectrum alloted to cable companies right now is:
2 mHz to 860 mhz.
That’s it. It’s finite. Now, I’ll bet you a million internet dollars that every single Cable MSO is using up every ounce of bandwidth they can squeeze out of their networks just to carry the current programming that they have. My company alone has been in the process of recapturing bandwidth for the last 6 years — that’s how long ago we ran OUT of bandwidth, long before HD was mainstream. There are ways to do this:
- Stop broadcasting analog signals entirely. For every 1 analog channel you can broadcast up to 12 digital SD channels at 256 QAM, or 4 HD channels at 256 QAM. You compress any higher than 256 QAM you will kill your service and maintenance teams just trying to keep up with service issues.
- Continue to compress channels, move lower-fi channels to higher compression settings. This effect QoS more than you even know.
- Push everything towards on-demand at a different price point.
The first option requires a shitload of equipment purchase $$$ for MSO’s. If your cable company suddenly decided to shift the cost burden of the equipment to you, how would you feel about it? This is what the Feds tried to do with the CableCard legislation and fucked it up so bad that it failed miserably. People like having the ability to rent rather than buy high tech equipment like that because they don’t want the hassle of replacing it and they don’t like the fact that they have to buy a new $400 box every 2-3 years to keep up with the new technology. Cable Labs has done market research on this, I’ve seen it. Seems to fly in the face of conventional wisdom, but it’s true. You wouldn’t have satellite either if you actually had to pay for those boxes in your house, you even get a “free” DVR now….that you end up paying for in the long run.
The second is what most of the MSO’s are doing now, which is essentially robbing peter to pay paul. At some point, when digital and HD set tops come down in price, there will be a shift to #1, but that’s a long ways off. Look how long it took the feds to actually go through with the off-air analog shut off? And look how many people were pissed (and still are pissed, according to our research in rural areas) when it happened?
The third is not really an option at this point — hopefully it will be in the future. Think about all the people that buy TV shows on DVD and watch them….well what if you could just buy those same shows for half the cost through your cable operator, who then pays the content provider?
To be totally honest? As a person who works for a cable provider, I’d just as soon get out of the TV business altogether. I give you a fat pipe of bandwidth that allows you to connect to places where you can stream the shows you want to watch. You pay the content provider for those shows. You also buy the equipment that connects you to the places where you can buy that content. All I’m providing you is the pipe itself. We’d make a hefty profit off of that business and the content providers would then have to put up with the bitching about rate increases instead of the middle man, us.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They aren't macroblocking...
…but the SD football picture basically fuzzes out when there’s lots of motion on the screen (which is what happens in football but not baseball).
That indicates that the MPEG chipset sucks.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the difference between Cable and Satellite
You get better HD through Cable, but you get worse SD. Take it from someone who works for a cable company. It has to do with the amount of bandwidth allocated to Cable vs. Satellite. In this capacity, the dish companies have a major advantage.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree on the SD quality
I have been impressed by it
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you tried watching football in SD?
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know quite a bit about video quality
It looks quite good on my newer HDTV but not so much on my older HDTV. (SD Quality)
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm using a low profile tube TV
It’s GREAT for over the air and cable.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the wife moved the Cable box to the bedroom
but luckily I’m able to pick up the major networks in HD via the digital tuner on my tv, so I still get NFL in HD (non espn)
Mizzou 37 - Illinois 9
by STLRegalia on Oct 21, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm good with this offseason plan
1. Make it clear to Derosa he won’t play everyday and he has no primary position available
2. Offer him arbitration to get the draft picks
3. Throw money at Holliday, within reason
4. Make it clear to Pujols you want him, but if he has TJ surgery, let’s wait to give him an extention
5. Figure out the 7th, 8th, and ninth inning.
by sdrone on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That sounds pretty good to me.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, off topic question.
Anybody else here running Windows 7? I really like it so far, but ever since I installed it this site in particular seems squirrely and a little odd.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to pay retail for it
But will eventually upgrade my Vista computer for it. I doubt I will ever upgrade my Laptop to anything past XP
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been running the Beta on my home PC for quite a while now
It’s the developers version, so I’m not quite sure if it’s exactly the same as yours, but I like it. It’s just taken tons and tons of time to get used to where everything is again.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh joy
I’m still not used to where they put everything in Word 2007, which I just switched to.
My kingdom for a revert switch.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I've got a full version. (I know a guy.)
Maybe it’s just SBN the last day or two, but I keep having the cursor kicked out of the dialogue box while I’m typing, or else the comment erases and it starts over with me typing away in the title box. Very weird.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm running Chrome
on Win7 and it works just fine. Perhaps it’s an IE8 issue?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 21, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
I use Opera mostly, then Chrome for work, then Firefox for a few applications. It’s happening in all three. Actually, I take that back. I don’t know that I’ve used FF yet.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't know people still used Opera
Fires up Netscape
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
And for the record, Opera is awesome.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I use Opera Mini on my mobile
Which is solid but never on my computer
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dislike Opera
but she does give a lot of money away, so I can respect that at least
Mizzou 37 - Illinois 9
by STLRegalia on Oct 21, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Opera is still my dad's favorite browser
But I think he likes Chrome a lot since I introduced him to it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Oct 21, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's almost like you're IE6ifying
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Oct 21, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Random
ESPN radio just reported that Manny Acta was supposedly hired as the Indians new manager. I hope that he and Perez will get along.
Red Means Go.
by bigwilley18 on Oct 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why
the hell did we have to wait for rosenthal to tell us that Albert was having surgery?
by cdb on Oct 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was Rosenthal-
which means if he had any grounds to speculate that it was TJ, he would have been all over it.
"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus
by hazel on Oct 21, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Albert's a jerk and didn't call Joe Strauss to tell him.
When the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal.
by the red baron on Oct 21, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yay Albert!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Oct 21, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming you caught the snide
The first player to leave the Cardinals clubhouse after their postseason exit, Pujols has elected not to speak with St. Louis media since. He spoke last week to a Dominican radio station, alluding to a scheduled elbow exam.
Thanks Joe.
"Everyone in here comes to the yard ready to play every day. I’ll take this group, any day until the day I die."
"This whole Cardinals thing.....I don’t know if you guys are a believer, but I’m a believer."
~ Ryan Fucking Ludwick
by RiverRat on Oct 21, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one cares, Straussie cat.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A scene...
Strauss sits at his desk at the P-D, arms folded in his lap. He rocks back and forward nervously. His body quivers. He’s been disappointed to this point because one athlete they call “El Hombre” has yet to call him. Joe cannot take it any longer. He begins to weep, silently at first and building to a cascade of salty tears…
“Just… one… call…” he says to himself, as Bernie Miklasz laughs at his desk (staring at his dartboard of terms trying to figure out which one to use in his next “LOOK I’M HOLDING THE TEAM ACCOUNTABLE” article… “Faberge egg,” “low hanging fruit”…) and Goold wonders why he typed “DNA of grit” a few seasons ago.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 21, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
THIS
This must be expanded and converted to a fanpost. Do it.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 21, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm reccing it
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 21, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly OT
What in the HELL were the umpires in the Yankees/Angels game doing last night?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 21, 2009 12:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Celebrating the de-criminalization of marijuana?
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wowowowow
Lets not blame this on Marijuana
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You haven't wondered what they were smoking at times?
It’s the only good explanation other than pay-offs and/or alien intervention.
by thepainguy on Oct 21, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mob activity
If the salad is on top, I’m sending it back…
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will have the gabba-gool
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
by nomar34 on Oct 21, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Making the case for instant replay
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 21, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can't have that though b/c missed calls are part of the human element of baseball!!!
I hear that argument and I wonder… what? You’d rather see blown calls? Okay…
I don’t see how a very limited instant replay, including the current system for home runs and maybe a one-challenge/manager type deal wouldn’t be at least worth trying out. That game last night was a joke.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 21, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs