Patience...please!
by chuckb on Oct 17, 2009 10:25 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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| P/PA | wOBA | |
|---|---|---|
| Cards | 3.66 | .325 |
| Rockies | 3.99 | .340 |
| Phillies | 3.86 | .340 |
| Dodgers | 3.88 | .331 |
| Yankees | 3.88 | .366 |
| Red Sox | 3.94 | .352 |
| Angels | 3.88 | .346 |
| Twins | 3.86 | .338 |
Did anyone else know that the Twins’ offense, featuring Nick Punto, Brendan Harris, Matt Tolbert, and Carlos Gomez for almost 1600 PAs, was better than ours – and it wasn’t even really close. The Cards’ offense, featuring clearly the best hitter in the game, was the worst of the playoff teams. Only the Giants saw fewer pitches per plate appearance than did the Cardinals. That’s right – we were the 29th most patient team (or 2nd most impatient team) in the major leagues in 2009. Our most patient hitter – Albert Pujols – averaged 3.84 P/PA, barely above the league average of 3.82 P/PA. Actually, everyone’s favorite whipping boy – Chris Duncan – averaged 3.91 P/PA in just 304 PA.
Let’s look at the team as a whole.
| 2009 P/PA | 2008 P/PA | 2009 wOBA | 2008 wOBA | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pujols | 3.84 | 3.83 | .449 | .458 |
| Ludwick | 3.83 | 3.83 | .336 | .406 |
| Skip | 3.73 | 3.58 | .336 | .341 |
| Yadi | 3.60 | 3.36 | .337 | .323 |
| Ryan | 3.62 | 3.78 | .324 | .277 |
| Ankiel | 3.52 | 3.82 | .288 | .360 |
| Holliday | 3.62 | 3.88 | .390 | .418 |
| DeRosa | 3.78 | 3.90 | .327 | .376 |
| Rasmus | 3.61 | .311 | ||
| Lugo | 3.90 | 4.04 | .342 | .317 |
The table says a lot about Ankiel’s struggles this year, in particular. I can’t account for the decreases in Holliday’s and DeRosa’s numbers but they both saw their wOBAs fall this year as their P/PA did as well. The bottom line, however, is that the Cards like to swing the bat. The league average % of pitches swung at was 45% and the Cards swung at 48% of the pitches they saw – only the Giants were higher. Again, we were 29th in the big leagues.
Individually, only Albert (42.6%), DeRosa (44.3%), and Lugo (40.1%) swung at less than the league average 45% of the pitches they saw. The others were all above league average – Skip (45.5%), Yadi (50.4%), Ludwick (49.9%), Ankiel (54.1%), Ryan (46.9%), and Holliday (49.6%).
Is this a problem of the players or the team’s approach to hitting? I can’t really say but, to me, there’s little doubt of a connection between the team’s impatience and the team’s struggles at the plate. We can blame Hal McRae if we want but, w/o a little more evidence, that’s a little tough for me to swallow. In order to properly evaluate McRae, it seems to me that we’d have to see how hitters perform for McRae and how they perform elsewhere and see if there’s a trend. Are hitters less patient as a result of McRae’s tutelage? Again, we’d have to compare the "with McRae" to the "w/o McRae." Lugo, DeRosa, and Holliday all provide some info but the sample sizes are awfully small. Plus, we’re talking about players who, at one point in the transition, changed leagues. It’s not as cut and dried as we may think it is.
Still, there’s a problem w/ the team’s offense. We can look to fix it at 3B and I’d expect Rasmus to improve in year 2. But Ryan’s not going anywhere, nor should he b/c of his defense. Yadi’s hardly the problem and, while it wouldn’t surprise me if only one of Holliday and Ludwick return, they’re not the biggest culprits either. Certainly extricating Ankiel from the lineup will help some and maybe replacing McRae is the solution. I know that something’s gotta change, however b/c we’re going to be hard-pressed to pitch as well next year as we did this year.
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Nice read, and interesting info
I wonder if we would have an in house replacement for McRae, or there’s someone available that would make sense.
by from First to Third on Oct 17, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
I personally..
don’t think replacing McRae could hurt any right about now. Even Ryan had a better P/PA last year, but that might be because of his more regular playing time this year.
Did anyone else notice
that Larry Walker was in uniform and in the Cardinal dugout for the last game with the Dodgers the other day.
I hesitated
even including Ryan’s numbers considering his playing time was so sporadic in 2008. I don’t think we gain anything valuable really from looking at his ’08 numbers.
he was also dealing with a wrist injury in '08
so I think you’re right- it adds more noise than anything.
Where do you get P/PA data these days? It’s apparently been removed from fangraphs.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
I always have to go to espn to find it
but perhaps there’s a better place?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 17, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/6073/brendan-w-ryan
Hardball Times has it right on the player pages.
I got it from B-R
but you can get it from fangraphs if you do the calculations manually. It’s got pitches and PA so that’s where I got my #s for Holliday, DeRosa, and Lugo.
ah, yeah it's there
under the “more batted ball” section. I guess I just missed it earlier. Thanks for the help.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
I am drawing a blank on who was the hitting coach in 04.
I thought it was Mitchell Page, but I can’t seem to find it. I realize the caliber of players a different…no MV3, but it doesn’t seem like they have hit anywhere near that level since.
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsh on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 17, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
yep, Mitichell Page in '04
he was fired after the ’04 series IIRC.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Oct 17, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
They scapegoated him for the reason they didn’t hit in the series. He had a serious drinking problem, and they stated that they had to get rid of him because the players no longer respected his coaching. It never did really sit well with me, and it’s true that the offense was better under him than any hitting coach I can remember.
we also had
Rolen, Edmonds, and Pujols having career years. Well, Pujols had a normal year. I’m not sure if he made the offense look good or the offense made him look good.
It depends on how much credit you give to a hitting coach.
Did they have career years because of him or despite him? Not an easy question to answer, but I still wonder why they decided it was all Mitchell Page’s fault that the team tanked in the WS. They were all having career years, but Page caused them all to fail for the most important four games of the year? It never passed the smell test with me.
Do the Cards' numbers in comparison to the Twins include pitchers?
Seems like pitchers (and he DH on the other side, who are usually pretty good hitters)would skew the numbers when comparing NL and AL teams.
Regardless, the Cards’ lack of plate patience is concerning.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 17, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions
there's a .02
difference between the AL and NL averages in P/PA. AL is .02 higher. They do include the pitchers’ numbers.
does this really matter?
How significant are those differences, really? I mean, you’re talking about a 5 pitch out of 100 pitch difference between Yadi or Ludwick (45%) and the league average (50%). Now, I’m as big a fan of the walk as anyone, but as offensive statistics go this seems fairly unimportant.
How's this for significant?
The Cards saw 22,601 pitches this year. 5 pitches out of 100 means an additional 1130 pitches the Cards could have seen during the course of this season. That means tiring starters out, getting into pens earlier and getting more favorable counts in which to hit. You can look at it as 5 out of 100 if you like. To me, I’m going to look at it as the Cards should have seen an additional 1100-1200 pitches over the course of the season. We averaged 1 hit every 16 pitches this year, a walk every 43 pitches, and a homer every 141 pitches. Even assuming we didn’t tire starters or get into bullpens (and weaker pitchers earlier), we’re still looking at an additional 70.6 hits, 26 walks, and 8 homers. Are those statistics important?
by chuckb on Oct 17, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
yeah. for a fanbase that cheered for gritty at-bats
we sure forget easily…
in the age of the pitch-count, that can be the surest way to get at a pitching staff.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
exactly right
i think it also fair (albeit opinionated) to say that many of the first pitch swings were not at a hitters pitch and inordinately resulted in outs.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
well, maybe
’09 Cardinals hit .313/.326/.522 (.849 OPS) when putting the first pitch into play.
Of course, that doesn’t consider times swinging at first pitches out of the zone that are missed or fouled off, causing the PA to start 0-1 instead of 1-0.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
admittedly surprised at the ba
but the “swinging at balls out of the zone” mentioned elsewhere suggests the overall ba on pitch one may be considerably lower
certainly it seemed often that when the situation suggested taking a pitch, they were hacking. again, i don’t know for sure, but what were rick-dick et al doing ba wise swinging at 3-0?
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
rick was pretty bad on first pitches
but killed the ball after being ahead in the count 2-0 or 3-0 or 2-1 or 3-1.
all of his splits are here
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
How this for a polite discussion
Thinking of this as an “over the entire” season statistic is extremely misleading, especially if you’re going to make the argument that this statistic matters because it wears down opposing pitchers — a phenomena that restarts each game. For example,
we’ll take your numbers that the cardinals saw 22601 pitches this year with a 3.66 p/pa. That’s a total of 6175 plate appearances. Now, if they had a league average p/pa (3.82) that would be (3.82*6175) = 23589 total pitches.
On a per game basis that’s 139 pitches per game (22601/162) vs. 145 pitches per game. That’s 6 extra pitches per game if they were a little more “patient” like you suggest. That does not equate to “tiring starters out.” So your tiny extra patience does no good there.
“we averaged 1 hit every 16 pitches this year”
6 extra pitches per game means .375 extra hits per game. All that fuss over patience doesn’t even give you a full one extra hit per game.
Traditionally, I am all for patience at the plate, but we’d have to be much, much more patient for it to make any difference at these tiny percentages. the difference between 3.66 and 3.82 is irrelevant.
Lastly, technically the difference between 22601 and 23589 is only 988, not 1100-1200. So that’s 61 hits, 22 walks, 7 home runs. Over the course of a month, that would be nice. Over the course of a season? Meh, that’s only 4% more hits (60/1436). Not that big a deal.
by MissesJBuck on Oct 18, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think your point on (not) tiring pitchers is very well-considered. When I saw a number around 1000 I first thought, “Wow! That’s ten starting pitchers.” but your numbers are much more sobering.
I’m not certain that outcomes-per-pitch is the perfect way to view things either, but 4% more in terms of additional out-defying offensive events instinctively sounds like a ton to me. I also think a concerted effort toward taking tougher at-bats could yield more than we realize:
“It always amuses when fans defend heart-of-the-order hitters by pointing to their on-base percentage. Wow, look at all those walks. Unless they’re intentional walks, or the big boppers are being pitched around, walks aren’t what you want from players hitting third through sixth.”
— Joe Morgan
Joe Morgan has over five (5) complete years worth of plate appearances hitting 3rd with a slash line of .274/.397/.453. A walk rate of close to 18%, more than double the average of his era – this from a guy that virtually seems to abhor walking, and and may have honestly only been “trying to get a pitch to hit!” He’s also arguably the best 2B to (no pun intended) walk the earth, but I wonder with hope how a focus on patience might also improve those 3.66/PA pitches we’re already seeing.
Correction: that quote is attributed to Paul Daugherty by way of Fire Joe Morgan! I was just doing a quick search for a quote by him because he’s a prolific walker and anti-SABR guy :)
Here’s a similar Morgan quote:
Remember, OBP, if it is not tied to run production, is not a big deal. Run production is how you should judge a player. Certain players at the top of the order should have high OBP because that is their job, to get on base. Guys in the middle of the lineup should be driving in those runs.
It's not
The Yankees have consistently been in the top 5 teams in the MLB in P/PA in the last 15 years. Consequently they are, year in and year out, one of the best offensive teams in the majors. You can attribute some of this to talent, but the Cardinal’s teams from ’01 to ’04 probably had more talent than those Yankee squads, yet they were still able to score lots of runs.
Seeing a lot of pitches per AB is a great tactic offensively. You tire pitchers out and in this day and age it’s even more important because of pitch counts. You get starters out of the game earlier and get to beat up on bullpens. Did you also know that teams who see more P/PA also tend to win more series rubber matches? Why? Because they wear out a team’s bullpen in the first two games and end up facing their worst bullpen pitchers in the 3rd game.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Oct 17, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great work chuck
I would love to see the numbers on the team in April & August, when it seemed the team had the offense going.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I'm not sure this gives me any real information.
It clearly doesn’t seem like your comparison of wOBA correlates particularly well with P/PA. If you simply look at the differences between ’08 and ’09, the wOBA does not predictably move in concert with the P/PA. How does this tell me that patience is actually the issue?
Now, personally, I do agree that this team had a problem at the plate; but it seemed to be much more related to pitch recognition than just patience. I don’t really understand those attacking McRae for their patience, either. LaRussa is the one who preaches “aggressiveness” at the plate, and it seems like his teams have often had issues interpreting the difference between aggressiveness and impatience.
One thing I always liked about Chris Duncan:
he had professional PAs in which he worked the count.
This exercise got me thinking about IBBs. Albert faced 10 more IBBs this season than last season, giving him only 4 pitches for those 44 PAs, 176 balls from IBBs alone. According to Fangraphs, he saw at least 50 more balls in 2009 than in any other season. He saw the 6th most strikes (or third fewest) in 2009*. Albert also saw the third most pitches of his career back through 2002.* He saw the most pitches in 2007, followed by 2005.
I think this confirms what we already know: they are pitching Albert very carefully and increasingly so.
In 2009, Albert saw 1.195 strikes per ball.
2008, 1.200 strikes per ball.
2007, 1.342 strikes per ball.
2006, 1.299 strikes per ball.
2005, 1.320 strikes per ball.
2004, 1.421 strikes per ball.
2003, 1.409 strikes per ball.
2002, 1.431 strikes per ball.
He is doing more with less.
*Fangraphs does not have this data for his first season.
source
by spants on Oct 17, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Of course, Albert hasn't
reached Bondsian numbers in this area, either. Bonds was seeing more balls than strikes!
It could actually be worse for him.
He might actually do more damage to his elbow, and his tight hamstrings could pop from the extra workout.
yeah, it's not like Bonds who started skinny
didn’t he? I don’t even remember skinny Bonds. it’s like young Elvis.
Albert was always a big guy.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Yeah.
He had a Griffey, Jr. body when he started. But, apparently they made him angry. And we didn’t like him when he was angry.
I feel like we are insulting green men everywhere.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
his slumps are very much about the pitchers being chickensh**
Albert has always pulled out of his slumps like clockwork. Then he fixes his feet (thanks Dee Dee!) and they don’t throw him strikes.
I fear everyone will be taking notes from Joe Torre’s strategy. Imagine a whole effin season of that. The mang will not be happy.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
No he will not.
I don’t know how Bonds was able to stay so locked in while seeing so few strikes. Pretty amazing.
That used to cause a lot of Bonds' slumps, too.
It took him a long time to ignore the frustration and accept the way he was going to be treated. As competitive as Pujols is, it will definitely affect his performance, too. I think we’ve seen it when he really starts to expand his zone during those slumps.
it's going to be mang over matter!
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Thanks for the efforts here.
I think that’s interesting that the number went up in ’07. That was the year that he really had no protection behind (bad Rolen, bad Edmonds, no Ludwick, etc.). However, he has really trended downward every year. It seems crazy that they are so willing to automatically give him a base so often. I really miss courage in pitchers.
We only lost the division by 7 games that year.
It’s not exactly as though we were the Pirates. We lost the division by 11.5 games in ’08, so by that reasoning they should have pitched to him more then.
less worry about apu
with no one on in front
much more important in him seeing pitches than “protection”
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Let's take a look.
Over the course of his career, looking at OBP in front compared to OPS behind (I averaged spots 1 & 2 for OBP and spots 4 & 5 for OPS from B-R, I borrowed from spants on the AP K/B numbers)
Year / 1-2 OBP / 4-5 OPS / AP K/B
02 / .330 / .937 / 1.431
03 / .320 / .901 / 1.409
04 / .342 / .992 / 1.421
05 / .350 / .840 / 1.320
06 / .336 / .878 / 1.299
07 / .347 / .690 / 1.342
08 / .358 / .839 / 1.200
I’m not sure I can really draw a conclusion here either way. The OPS and OBP numbers went up considerably in 04, and he saw an increase in K/B. In 05, OBP went up and OPS went down significantly; and he saw a lot fewer K. However, between 05 and 06, OBP went down significantly while OPS climbed, and he saw fewer K. Then, OBP went up and OPS tanked in 07, and he saw more K.
It seems like it has gone both ways, and the best OBP years have resulted in fewer K thrown to AP.
Fine work, spants.
Fanpost worthy. What’s up with the mini-spike in 2007?
I’m going to give my usual rash analysis based purely on my recollection of anecdotal evidence and say it was probably because he had a hot Ludwick looming around him in the order. Of course, I’d love to hear from someone with facts to support or dispute this. But hot/cold Ludwick seems to make all the difference in this lineup the last 3 seasons. Hot Ludwick cures what ails ya.
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 17, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Hot
…wick.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
and Ludwick only had 339 PA that season
Encarnacion hit cleanup a lot that season. Are we underestimating Juan’s protection factor?
And why does BR have Juan’s last game as being in Houston? Was he a PH on deck when that terrible thing happened?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Nice work Chuck
This team’s approach at the plate was atrocious. First pitch swinging after a string of walks, players (cough..Ankiel…cough) who should be taking all the way swinging on a 3-0 count, etc…not to mention our horrendous and bewildering bunting struggles and our complete inability to hit to the opposite field. (Seriously, I know this is just selective memory, but it seems like I could count the number of oppo field liners this season on one hand, but I’d need a thousand hands to count all the grounders weakly pulled to short or second) I don’t think you can pin it all on McRae, not even mostly on McRae; but at some point you have to hold coaches accountable when results on the field aren’t showing up. I’d like to see McRae replaced (but I highly doubt it will happen as long as Tony’s still around)
sac fly?
only by accident
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
y'know, I am starting to like averages less and less
especially during a long season.
Is there any way to cut up this data into monthly or even daily increments? I want to see a trend-line. Averages are like that butter knife scraping everything on toast… I want to see where the jelly is bunching up.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
OT: Found this today and had to share...
Worst selling Cards Jersey EVAR
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I would like to think there have been worse
Joe Thurston, for all his shortcomings, is not even on my list of the 10 worst players who have seen major playing time in the last 10-15 years.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
But those players probably didn't warrant jersey...
it’s a real interesting place he’s in… awful, yet good enough that someone thought they could make money off his jersey.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
of course my list includes a lot of bullpen guys
Joe is still on the list of position players
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Oh you can get a KMac jersey there too...
However you can get a Kobe Razless jersey too.. that site has a lot of range.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Hmm
I always wanted a Kip Wells jersey.
by Mulliganstew on Oct 18, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Tony's old buddy
Carney Lansford was fired from the Giants as their hitting coach…I wonder if he has called his old manager for employment opportunities.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Well he apparently is on board
with hitting coaches who encourage free swinging… so we can only hope.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Yeah that's what I was thinking
I’m hoping he lost Tony’s number. I bet Hal will be back. Tony is one loyal dude.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
He's gone through a lot of hitting coaches since he's been here.
I haven’t seen him be too slow to scapegoat the hitting coach.
OT: I am disappointed in myself
As one of the bigger proponents of fanshots on here, it pains me that I just now clicked on the latest fanshot by chuck.
I am so gonna be a part owner/decision maker of a minor league franchise!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
remember the little people, matty
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
anyone catch the season wrapup on espn radio?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
nope
where are your podcast linking skills?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I'm on the DL with too-many-tags syndrome
day to day
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
ahh well
it was ESPN radio, and while I can stomach the radio end a lot more than the TV guys, it is still probably best that I missed it.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Good stuff Chuck, as always...
When it comes to McCrae, I have one question:
Can things really be worse offensively without him?
I don’t think that’s even possible. So there’s really no reason to retain him, especially with good hitting coaches like Jaramillo out there looking for a job. In fact, this team might be better just to fire McCrae and not bring in anybody, while filling the position internally.
I don’t think everything is McCrae’s fault, but when the offense is as bad as it was this year, the hitting coach should get the axe, regardless of how much of hand he had to play in it. Obviously something wasn’t working, and that’s what you pay a hitting coach for.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
what's the rumor about the cubs picking up Jaramillo?
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Hal's last name might be the one messed up the most on here
but I agree, it could not hurt to try going in a different direction. I would actually be shocked if they kept McRae after hinting they were thinking of not bringing him back. It seems every time that has happened under this regime that said coach was gone (even if it rarely happens).
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i agree, the O's woes are not all Hal's fault, but he lacks the ability to fix them
so he must go. hire jar jar binks already
pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels
Well here's my take
A few possibilities exist here:
- McRae is telling the hitters to hack away, in which case he’s clueless and should be fired
- McRae is NOT telling the hitters to hack away, and just stinks at getting his message across
- McRae just sits in the dugout telling fart jokes and doing soft-toss before the game, as do most non-Jaramillo hitting coaches
If 1 or 2 is the case, then he’s doing a crappy job and should be fired. If it’s 3, then why on Earth are there hitting coaches anyway? To give more former players jobs w/in baseball?
When you have a lineup including Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday, Ryan Ludwick, Mark DeRosa(with the caveat that I don’t know how badly his wrist was jacked up), and serviceable bats like Schumaker, Cody Rasmut, and Molina, you simply should not be a bad offense. And from September 1st on, that’s exactly what the Cardinals were. Maybe McRae is to blame, maybe not… To me though, he shouldn’t have a job with the Cardinals next season.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 17, 2009 5:23 PM EDT reply actions
Jaramillo........
Is he over rated? Put the Cards offense in Texas and I am sure the numbers would be that much better.
Thing is...
he was cranking out good hitters for that franchise long before they moved to that ballpark. Think of how many managers they’ve had in Texas in the last 20 years and not a single one wanted to get rid of Jaramillo at any point in time. I certainly wouldn’t give him all the credit for guys like Juan Gonzalez, Pudge, and Teixeira, but the guy has as good a track record as any coach in the game.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
reading the article about him on MLB.com
it says he wants a long term deal. it also says the Rangers were too free swingers & did not walk enough & K’d way too much. sound familiar? of course the players love the guy & are sad he’s gone. i really can’t remember every hearing his name till now, so i don’t know a lot about him. i just know Arlington is an easy park to get your grove on.
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For those that think McRae really doesn't do anything for the hitters
Than what does Duncan do for the pitchers? He prepares plans for the pitchers. Shouldn’t a hitting instructor do the same thing? Shouldn’t a hitting instructor prepare plans for hitters to have the best chance to succeed against pitchers.
that's what I've always thought
and if the game plan is simply to be aggressive and swing away, that’s a terrible plan
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 17, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Duncan doesn't change what the pitchers pitch's are
He just works with what he has. Like pitcher tendencies. What is normally their first pitch? Go to pitch? How do they approach other players with similar hitting swings/patterns? What do they throw on each count? What is the hitters best zone? What is the best way to get pitchers to throw to that zone?
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 17, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I can't imagine
Duncan ever telling a pitcher to throw moar sinkars. Or tinker with his release point. No, he is too smart for that.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
True
but LaRussa also has a video guy that prepares splits and cuts for each hitter of the opposing pitchers in each series. What those guys have done lately, what they’ve done against particular hitters, etc. They do the same for opposing hitters.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
The Cardinals were hacktastic in '09
they swung at almost everything, including being among the teams who swung at most pitches outside of the zone. yet despite all this extra swinging, their contact percentage were behind the Nationals and barely better than the Padres… not exactly offensive powerhouses.
there’s no reason not to try a new hitting coach, these numbers should be improved upon somehow, and it looks like there would be a variety of ways to improve such poor plate discipline, including a different philosophy towards the offense, as well as finding a more impactful or effective pitching coach and offensive game plan
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 17, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions
my concern here is that
its not hal, but the players and their interpretation of tlr’s approach. look no farther than rick-dick swinging at 3-0 and the lack of patience after walks. that must be ok with the boss, or those guys would have not been making those decisions so consistently all year
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Oct 17, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you nailed it
I would like to see the numbers for McRae’s previous years. Not really interested in defending him, but I can recall the manager publicly calling out players on multiple occasions this year for taking too many pitches.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Not to mention ...
that it is the standard philosophy of LaRussa to expect PH to come off the bench swinging.
Keep Hal
Can anyone here make a case for the guy so I can figure out if there is even a debate?
Also, does will clark have any credentials/reputation for this possible vacancy?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He's a badass...
at this point I’m willing to accept that and that alone.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
btw, btf has linked to this article
some interesting comments there. linky
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
that's quite a drop in batting average from last season
BABIP was .315 in 2008, and .299 in 2009 fwiw… not sure what the difference in batting average suggests, but the contact percentage went down a couple of points. swinging at more pitches outside the zone is going to lower your batting average too, as well as obp
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 17, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
ha, hey chuck
make sure that you read the comments. Stop being so lazy and write out your words! That ♂ would go crazy trying to read anything I write. Yes, douchebag, you are being nitpicky.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
OT: anyone watching the LAA/NYY game notice that
Joe Buck just said Aybar looked like one of the Teletubbies last night with his earflap/turtleneck thing on? Then they showed the replay of the dropped popup, and he referred to Aybar as “Po.” I had to look it up to see if that was really the red Teletubby’s name.
I try to like Joe Buck, but he’s such a dick.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
why would you try to llike joe buck?
dude doesn’t even like baseball.
it's Clydesdales vs Goats. Actually sums up Cards vs. Cubs quite nicely. -all4tookie
exactly.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
be prepared for major disappointment
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
+1
Jack was a oneuva kind. Joe is just a shadow.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsh on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I stopped watching after seeing that fan with the ventriloquist's dummy
there was a furry, too.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
I kind of think that's funny.
Sometimes I have a mean sense of humor.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
It probably would have been funny if someone other than Joe Buck had said it
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
i'm not even half way paying attention to the LCS's
now that the Cards are done, i just make myself care that much
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I tried, I really did
but baseball without the Cards just sucks. I am going to go sit by the window for awhile.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I don't blame you
I’ve moved on to college football. Go Hoosiers!
by Mulliganstew on Oct 18, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
And I've moved on to college basketball
Go Illini… It would really fantastic if we actually had a football team…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
really good interview my MO yesterday morning
he talks about a lot of things here. i think it’s good, but i’m easily impressed sometimes. they don’t specifically talk about Hal though, which i had hoped they would. but they cover a bunch of topics.
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my should be BY
geesh, i have no excuse for that. i’m stone cold sober
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why can't vlad
just stand there and take his walk???
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Then he wouldn't be Vladdy, the Free-Swinger
who hits balls that bounce in front of the plate.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
appropriate
for a post about not taking enough pitches that he would come up and kill the rally. thank goodness burnett uncorked a 55 footer.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
anyone else's TV on Fox have a breaking news ticker at the bottom of their screen?
apparently balloon boy’s parents are being charged for that farce
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Way to get out of that jam, Saunders
f u, Yankees.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I like some of the individual Yankee players,
it’s the idea of the team that pisses me off. I don’t like that they can buy whatever player they want, and it irritates me that most sports media outlets act as though they are the most important team IN THE WORLD.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
but it's not the other 29 teams fault they can't outbid the Yankees
should they & other big market teams be punished for having more money than almost all other teams? i don’t think so.
i blame the wwl & fox for a lot of the yankee hate. it never used to be this bad. if they weren’t so obsessed with them & the sawx, i think more fans could appreciate the team instead of just blindly hating them because they are beaten into our brains. not the sawx though. only spawns of satan could like that punch of douchebags.
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My mind remains unchanged -
I still hate the Yanks.
by cardsgirl95 on Oct 17, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i can't hate, i appreciate their past far too much
and i genuinely like Jeter, Rivera, Jeorge & CC.
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I appreciate their past as well
I can’t get past the ridiculous money spent and the ridiculous media love affair. I know a bunch of yankee fans, and the majority of them are fans not for the past but because of the money and because it’s the cool team to root for according to ESPN.
Of those guys you listed, Rivera is the only one I enjoy. They are all great players in their own right. But the fake nostalgia of The Captain drives me nuts. The 2 biggest plays he made are highly over-rated IMHO because of the team that he plays on.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I like all of them too
plus Cano, Molina, Phil Hughes…I could go on. I like Girardi a lot too. I just don’t like that they have an unfair advantage.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Oh wait...I misread your post. I don't actually like Posada at all.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Oh yeah.
He’s number 4 on my list below, everyone else is 5.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
let me tell you why i like Posada
back in high school when he played for the Clippers, my best friends dad had season tickets in the fourth row right behind the 3rd base dugout. the public announcer always used to mispronounce his last name, the way he said it sounded like Hey Whore. being the immature 16yr old that i was, i ran with it & used to heckle him relentlessly about it. all in good nature of course, but still, i ran with with.
one game during a blow out almost everyone in the stadium had left, there was maybe 100 people in the stands. Posada had been getting beaten up all game behind the plate. numerous foul balls nailed him all over his body. there were a couple plays at the plate were guys ran him over, needless to say, he was tired, beat up & mad at all the pitchers. he was constantly yelling at them calling them names even i had never heard of.
so the pitcher throws a passed ball & a run scores, and i yelled something along the lines that the pitcher could not even hit on Posada’s sister, and he should because she’s a huge Hey Whore. and Posada just stops & looks at me & just loses he. he bends over laughing, points at me & said “dude you’ve been cracking me up all season, but that was the best.” and he flipped me the ball.
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Doesn't change my mind.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
my best friend thought he was going to come after me
he was really pissed at the pitchers. back then he had a real good sense of humor & never got mad. he knew i was joking, i told him once during warm ups that what i was saying was not even half as bad as what he was going to get in NYC & bean town. hell even his teammates would do the same thing. that announcer really f’ed up his name.
one game we took a guy who was a few years younger than us & when he heard me rip on Posada, he really ran with it & almost got kicked out. security made him go sit up in nose bleed section. he was a lot less creative than me & used some very foul language.
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That does give me a slightly different perspective.
That makes him sound like more of a good sport that I give him credit for.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
*than, not that
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
i don't know how he is now
but back in AAA he had a really good sense of humor & was a blast to talk to. we used to talk to him during the warm ups & joke with him all game long. those were the days.
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That sounds really awesome.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Yankees Players I can stand while watching a game:
1. Molina (I actually like him)
2. Rivera (I like him too)
Jeter I can stand as a person but I cannot stand him while watching a game.
Least favorites:
1. A-Fraud
2. Justin (Joba)
3. Cano
4. The rest of them
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
if it makes you feel better, no one likes ARod
and i don’t think they ever will
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I don't think they should be punished for having more money,
but that doesn’t mean I have to like the idea of the team. It makes me resent them, actually. They would never need to have a “Can we afford to keep both Pujols and Holliday?” discussion.
As I said, I like some of their players, just not the idea of a team that has tons more money than any other team. It feels somewhat unfair.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
it doesn't just feel that way
Let’s kill baseball as a business.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 17, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.
That graph pisses me off.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
but they can't buy everyone
and not every player they buy works out. RJ hated playing there & left as soon as he could. and even they have a reduced payroll this year from last. so it’s not like they are going to be pushing their payroll higher & higher. they are now trying to do what the Cards & many teams are trying to do & rebuild their farm system so they can have younger & cheaper players.
and no andi they probably will never have the issue of choosing between two super star players. and it’s not fair. but baseball, just like life, is hardly ever fair. if it was, the Cardinals would still be playing right now.
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Dude, help me out...
I’ve been ruminating over this for a whole 5 minutes. RJ?
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
yes, it really is
mlb looks like most other professional sport leagues, until it gets to salary caps
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
I agree to an extent
I still like them more than the Red Sox.
by Mulliganstew on Oct 18, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I want them to lose,
but I don’t really hate them. I prefer them to the Red Sox.
by peach concrete on Oct 17, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The Red Sox were always my team in the AL...
then they won it and their fans got intolerable and I had to pick a new AL team… Bad times.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I really liked the Red Sox back in the 80's
Dwight Evans was my favorite non-Card of that period. The Red Sox and their fans these days make me regret that.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Them not winning the Series in several years
has backed me off my hate of them…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
My hate remains in full force.
Last year was an awesome year when they didn’t make the playoffs. I laughed.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That was great Vlad. Jut great.
Gosh I dislike Justin (Joba).
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
All I can think is that if the Cards were playing in this game
I’d be walking around my apartment talking to myself like a crazy person.
by peach concrete on Oct 17, 2009 10:35 PM EDT reply actions
the Cards don't have to be playing for me to be doing that
OT, does anyone else hate these new Budweiser commercials? holy crap they are stupid
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Were those the ones with people hugging?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah & they are talking about handshakes & different greetings & guys ripping on each other
because “it’s what we do”. i guess now it’s their new catch phrase
they are dumb. so freaking dumb.
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this freaking DTV commericial with the black eyed peas sucks hard core too
6ly, why are they popular?
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Is now a bad time to mention I just bought that song.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I have very non-discriminating taste in music.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing wrong with some Weezer, though!
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Because Fergie.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
she's nasty
6ly, i don’t get the attraction to her at all. although effin fisk saw her or got to meet her at the transformers 2 premier & he said she was much better looking in person than on tv or in print.
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She's airbrushed in that commercial like crazy.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
they have to to try & make her look good
and she still doesn’t look good. that’s how unattractive she really is.
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I think people like her because:
1. They remember her from Kids, Inc.
2. They know she got all messed up on drugs for a long time but came back and turned her career around
I do think she’s pretty nasty, but my bestie gay friend just LOOOOOOOVES her.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
In other news,
They played Fire Burning on the Dancefloor during our handegg game today and I sang along with the real words. Also someone wore a Clemson snuggie to the game.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
When they played that song between innings at the ill-fated NLDS Game 3,
I sang (some of) the real words as well to my SO and people were looking at me funny. It was the 8th inning, though, and I had to make some kind of fun for myself.
Damn, that was a depressing game. I don’t think I have ever seen so many people get up and leave a game at Busch. Generally, people at Busch will stay for the whole affair—especially if it’s during the postseason.
I can’t believe that was only a week ago. It feels much farther away than that.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I sang the whole song to my brother.
He told me to stop.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you sang the "real version" of the song...
otherwise you are dangerously close to being dead to me…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Read above.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I apologize...
I’m a bit out of it after attempting to watch Illinois play football tonite… that team has warped my fragile little mind…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
It"s fine.
Most saturdays I could say the same about Clemson, although for a different reason (they should win and collapse at the end).
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I've written this team off
I’m going to the Michigan game because I have tickets, but other than that this team is dead to me… I can only imagine you are at least hopeful of a victory with Clemson… I’d give my right nut to think this team could beat a D1-A team… Basketball season can’t start soon enough.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
But see that's the problem.
You start every game thinking “We’re going to win” and then they lose most likely in the most heartbreaking fashion.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
As I said in the spring...
I’d rather have a team that I was disappointed to see lose, than a team I was utterly amazed won…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
I don't know.
I feel like the second one allows you to have more fun. If you go in knowing you’re going to lose you can accept it better. Like the Indians.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The two years of completely awful football
were a lot of fun… that one win over Indiana was fantastic… However going to the Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl were fun as well… they both have their perks…
I know you can get away with being a much bigger jackass at the games when the team is awful… you can always fall back to “I’m one of the 15 people left” argument that discourages the powers that be from being angry of you making an ass of yourself.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Were you at the game?
I go to Indiana and was sitting next to the Illinois fans in the stands because my family came in for the game. I’m sure Illinois will get better next year, as will the Hoosiers.
by Mulliganstew on Oct 18, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
The only way Illinois could get worse
is if we made our team play in street clothes… Even then I don’t know how much worse the results could get… I refuse to waste my money and travel with the team… I basically drop a couple hundo to drive several hours and be harassed by drunk fans of the other school. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
That's hilarious.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I obviously listen very well since I didn't stop.
Even after the song was over.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I do enjoy that remix.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
i've never even heard the original version of that song
there’s no way it’s as good as Rasmus girls
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It's not.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I just listened to it...
It’s like going back to driving a stock 1949 Mercury after taking a new Z06 for a spin…
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Colby O'Donis?
Maybe.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was Sean Kingston
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
Maybe both of them.
They do that a lot.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It's Sean Kingston.
They just sound the same to me.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
no kidding, it feels like months ago
what a crappy end to the season. it was awful. awful, awful, awful.
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Everything was all hunky-dory when I got up to get some drinks and a pretzel.
1-0, we can come back from that, right?
Then, while I was getting in line for a pretzel, Ethier hit his homerun. As if that weren’t bad enough, as I was waiting in line at the Cuervo stand so I could get gin and tonics rather than shitty, shitty beer, I saw the Piniero error at first on the TV above the bar.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
So it was YOU!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I'm not the scapegoat! Don't blame me!
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I don't.
I don’t blame everyone except for Colby, Adam, and whoever else decided to play.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
- the second don't.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
they sell straight liquor at the stadiums now?
i didn’t know they could do that.
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Dude get a flask and you can have whatever you want...
cmon you should know these things… f’in gdm
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
Hell yeah! There are several Cuervo stands.
the two I can think of off the top of my head are by the bleachers and the one I went to was on terrace level right behind the Busch Stadium sign that faces Hwy 40.
Also, on the concourse level (? street level) there is a place called The Backstop Bar that has pretty much whatever you want. They have great bartenders that remember good tippers, even if yo go there only a few times a year. Some lady made me an extra-super-strong drink when she noticed it was my birthday. I also have affection for them because they insist on carding me, well into my thirties.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
well that's cool. good thing i'm not allowed to go or i'd probaby pass out every game
and of course they card you. for real guys, women don’t age pasted 19, you all look 19 to us.
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Better an $8 mixed drink than an $8 bottle of Budweiser
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
I shouldn't ask,
because it seems that nothing I want to happen does happen in these 09 playoffs, but for the love of all things good and right, please do NOT let arod walk this one off.
by peach concrete on Oct 17, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions
Please no.
I would throw something at the TV.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
My TV is safe.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
even they don't want to see that happen again
he can do that only once in the playoffs. that is more than enough.
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the budweiser one where they show Gibby & Ozzie & Bucks call of Gibsons HR in 88
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"remember kids, when you're catching a pop-up always use four hands."
when he’s not being inexplicably sanctimonious I still really like joe buck.
Me too.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He does have his moments.
Such as when Garrett Stephenson dropped that F-bomb on a very young Dan McLaughlin and when they went back to Joe, he said something like “Now that’s a moment to remember!” in sort of a smarmy, smug voice, but it was still funny.
But what really turned me against him was the 2004-2006 postseasons, in which he tried so hard not to show Cardinals bias that he sounded like a real dick.
"She gone! Airplane time! Airplane Time!! AIRPLANE TIME." Boog
"I think those scorers must be from Mars or Venus. Or maybe they're just from that book." --Mike Shannon, 7/09/2009
and he still gets ripped for being a STL homer
it’s really not fair, he’s damned if he does & damned if he doesn’t
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It's true.
Everyone else says he’s too biased for St. Louis and and St. Louisans say he’s too unbiased and trying too hard.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Garrett Stephenson...
I will now go curl into the fetal position until that memory passes.
"The Cards lead this game tied 1-1." -Mike Shannon
and ducttape16 was never heard from again
some say his ghost haunts anyone with the initials GS, although those reports cannot be confirmed or denied at this juncture
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i really hope oliver is the one to blow this for the angels
i’ll never forgive him for what he’s done
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i thought for a second there were 4 angels.
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 17, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
they only needed one, he was clearly straddling the bag & never attempted to touch it
the umps will give you that call if you at least try & touch 2nd. there he never even tried
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Its still a bush league, BS call given the situation & the magnitude of the game.
I would be willing to bet that the Halos get that call in Anaheim…there seems to be ALOT of odd calls that go the Yankees way in New York. How many controversial calls have there been in the last 15 or so yrs in NY? That just seems to be post season baseball in NY.
by buzzburton33 on Oct 17, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I know two old guys from Anaheim right now who are freaking the hell out.
Back at the end of the 04 season I went to an Angels-A’s game up in Oakland (I think Mulder gave up like 10 runs), and I sat in front of two of the funniest guys I’d ever met. (And sufficiently impressed by the 04 cards team.) Both in their 60s, ripping on everyone, especially all the Angels. And in the middle of the game an ump made this same call (called the guy safe at second on a DP), and these guys flipped the hell out about how that was never called, etc. They’re having fits right now.
by peach concrete on Oct 17, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
so who had 'em for umpire fantasy...
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
holy shit
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone not touch the bag.
Maybe they just never make a big deal out of it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
the latter
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
by prophetjohn on Oct 17, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
you've never heard of the phantom out at 2nd on a double play?
they do that all the time. SS & 2ndbasemen even work on it constantly. it’s one of baseball’s worst kept secrets.
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Never once.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 17, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just sure every time I see a replay
they’re touching the base. Maybe I’m making it up because I assume they are but that’s what I see. Now that I know that happens I’ll be looking for it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 18, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
totally OT, didn't read, probably hijacking...
…Wake sure put up a fight today, huh?
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Oct 18, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh man.
It was pathetic. And incredibly boring and cold at the end. But like a good girl I stayed until then end and didn’t leave at halftime like everyone else. I prefer watching Wake games on TV because Riley Skinner is very god looking and I can’t see him at the games.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Oct 18, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn't see it
but y’all must be talkin about an f’ing proximity double play…I hate that proximity shit. Why bother teaching the kids to do it if the pros aren’t gonna do it either?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsh on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 18, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
yep, Aybar straddled the bag & never attempted to touch it
he was livid Posada was called safe
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cut the kids some slack
they already stole all your lawn
"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 18, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions