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A tale of two aces

In 2001, Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling were 1-2 in the majors in ERA finishing w/ a 2.49 and a 2.98 ERA, respectively. Despite the fact that Johnson was quite clearly the best pitcher in the majors in ’01, Schilling started game 1 of the playoffs against the Cards. Schilling defeated Matt Morris 1-0 and again 2-1 in game 5 to win the series. Steve Kline actually got the game 5 loss. Morris pitched 15 innings in the series, had a 1.20 ERA and got a loss and a no decision. (anyone still think wins are the best measure of a pitcher’s success?) Randy Johnson was defeated by Woody Williams in game 2 in the desert on a marvelously pitched game but, as we all know, the D-backs went on to win the series 3-2 (Mike Matthews? Really, Tony?). Johnson and Schilling combined to pitch 26 of the 44.2 innings (58%) for the D-backs, yielding just 4 earned runs in those 26 innings. Clearly the plan for the D-backs was to ride the backs of their 2 aces as far as they could take them. The D-backs had a mediocre pen and a decent, but not dominant, offense but their rotation had 2 aces. Sound at all familiar?

The D-backs went on to take on the Braves in the NLCS. These Braves had Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and John Burkett in their rotation and John Smoltz in the pen. Though they won just 88 games in the regular season, they seemed potent. Johnson started game 1 for the D-backs but they couldn’t use Schilling until game 3 (or chose not to) after having to use him in game 5 against the Cards. He had 4 days rest, but would’ve had just 2 had he been used in game 2 so the D-backs went w/ Miguel Batista. Johnson and Schilling each pitched complete games, yielding 1 run between them, in pushing the D-backs to a 2-1 advantage. When the D-backs won behind Brian Anderson in game 4 against Maddux going on just 3 days rest, it was just a matter of time before the snakes would be popping the cork. They had 3 games to win 1 and Johnson and Schilling would pitch 2 of the 3 if needed. As it turned out, they needed only 7 innings from Johnson in game 5 to win the series 4-1. In this 5 game series, Johnson started 2 and Schilling 1. Between them, they pitched 25 of the team’s 45 innings (56%) and neither had started on 3 days rest yet. They gave up just 3 ER in those 25 innings, bringing their total for the 2 playoff series to 51 innings and 7 earned runs (1.24 ERA).

The D-backs would face the Yankees, who were gunning for their 4th world title in a row. Fortunately for them, Schilling and Johnson would be lined up to go in games 1 and 2 in the desert. The Yankees’ pitchers were no slouches. Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte were 2-3 in the majors in FIP (behind Johnson) and Roger Clemens was 9th. Schilling was 6th. Game 1 pitted Schilling against Mussina but the D-backs blew up Mussina in the 4th and then Randy Choate in the 5th and the rout was on. Schilling pitched just 7 innings and the snakes won game 1 9-1. In game 2 it was Johnson against Pettitte and the Big Unit threw a 3-hit shutout to defeat the Yankees 4-0. 16 innings, 1 ER. Up 2 games to 1, Schilling started game 4 on 3 days rest. He had thrown 102 pitches in game 1 so it wasn’t like he got the night off b/c of their offensive explosion. Schilling threw 7 innings (88 pitches) and gave way to Byung-Hyun Kim in the 8th when the D-backs were able to take a 3-1 lead w/ 2 runs in the top half of the inning. On the verge of taking a 3-1 series lead, Kim imploded and the Yankees evened the series behind a 9th inning homer by Tino Martinez and a 10th inning Derek Jeter homer. 23 innings, 2 ER.

In game 5, Bob Brenly turned to Miguel Batista, resisting (for whatever reason) the urge to go w/ Johnson on short rest as well. This set up Johnson on regular rest in game 6 and Schilling on 3 days rest in game 7. Either way, Johnson and Schilling would pitch 2 of the final 3 games so you may as well have 1 of them on regular rest, right? Makes sense. In any case, Batista was terrific in game 5 but Kim blew another 2 run lead and then the Yanks got another run off Albie Lopez in the 12th to take a 3-2 series lead. They couldn’t go back to Phoenix down 3-2 w/ Johnson and Schilling looming. In game 6, the D-backs put Johnson on the hill and brought out the whoopin’ sticks as they hung 15 runs on Pettitte, Jay Witasick, and Choate. Johnson threw 7 innings and 104 pitches, giving up just 2 6th inning runs as they evened the series and set up Schilling on short rest against Clemens in game 7.

Schilling threw 7 innings of shutout ball and had a 1-0 lead entering the 8th. The Yanks, however, hung a 2-spot on Schilling in the top of the 8th and he gave way to Batista for 1 batter, and then Johnson after having thrown 103 pitches. Johnson pitched 1.1 innings as the D-backs rallied for 2 runs in the bottom of the 9th off Mariano Rivera and were the series champs. In the 7 games, Schilling threw 21.1 innings and Johnson threw 17.1 innings. Together, they threw 38.2 of the team’s 65 total innings pitched (59%), yielding just 6 earned runs for an ERA of 1.40. All told, the tandem threw 89.2 of the team’s 154.2 innings in the playoffs (58%).

The question I want to ask then is are Carpenter and Wainwright capable of carrying this team the way Schilling and Johnson did in 2001? My first inclination was to think that Johnson and Schilling in ’01 were much better than Carp and Wainwright this year – that they were clearly the 2 best pitchers in the majors. That wasn’t really true. Johnson was clearly the best but there were others, notably the 3 Yankees and a couple of Braves + a Cardinal (Morris) in the conversation. In ’01, Johnson’s FIP was 2.13 (best in baseball) and Schilling’s was 3.11 (6th). This year, Carp’s is 2.79 (4th) and Wainwright’s is 3.15 (11th). Fangraphs doesn’t record WAR for 2001 but maybe we can use WPA as a fair replacement. Johnson’s was 6.23 and Schilling’s was 5.56 – 1st and 2nd in the majors. Carp’s is 5.64 (2nd) and Wainwright’s is 4.11 (5th).

If you look at the 4 pitchers’ peripheral numbers, you notice that…

K/9 BB/9 K/BB HR/9 GB/FB AVG OBP SLG
Johnson ‘01 13.41 2.56 5.24 0.68 0.63 .205 .274 .309
Schilling ‘01 10.27 1.37 7.51 1.30 0.64 .245 .273 .402
Carp ‘09 6.62 1.77 3.73 0.34 1.93 .224 .272 .312
Wainwright ‘09 8.09 2.54 3.19 0.67 1.71 .248 .297 .350

Schilling and Johnson were absolute freaks in 2001. Wainwright’s and Carpenter’s numbers are terrific this year but they pale in comparison to the D-backs pitchers 8 years ago. Carp and Wainer are much better at getting ground balls than the D-backs duo was and maybe that will help them keep the ball in the ballpark in the postseason, as it has in the regular season. Many of the runs that Johnson and Schilling gave up in the ’01 postseason were via the long ball. Hopefully, Carp and Wainer can make other teams get 3 hits in an inning in order to score. That said, they get a lot of ground balls and ground balls inevitably find holes. They’re just not power strikeout guys the way Johnson and Schilling were in ’01 so I think it’s a bit unreasonable to expect our guys to replicate Johnson’s and Schilling’s success in ’01.

That’s not to say that our aces don’t have the capability of leading the team to the championship. Johnson and Schilling didn’t have Albert Pujols in the middle of their order, after all. I believe our aces do have the capability of throwing 58% of our team’s innings in the postseason and, if they do, we’ll probably be very successful.

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The similarities are shocking, really.

Both offenses clock in right around average, while both pitching staffs are near the top of the league and quite top-heavy (Johnson, Schilling, Kim, Batista v. Carp, Waino, Pineiro, Franklin). They obviously were suffering at both infield corners, but they made 1B work with a valuable Durazo/Colbrunn platoon and got some good D from Counsell at 3B. Our rotating corner OF monstrosity didn’t work out so well and necessitated a trade, but at least we didn’t run Tony Womack out to a team-leading PA mark while he was putting together a Yuniesky Betancourt-esque season.

Our pitchers are better hitters than the D’Backs- Waino hurt us half a win less than Johnson did his team in similar numbers of PAs.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 3:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The discrepancy in K/9 ratio looms.

I’m starting to lose faith in the pitch-to-contact philosophy, especially after Piniero – the poster boy for p2c – has been thrashed in his last couple starts. It may be safe to say that when the opposing batter makes contact, things can go wrong. Which is why it’s important to note Schilling and Johnson’s remarkable ability to make batters miss.

"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5

"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.

by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 1, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is rare though

To see such high K/9 numbers associated with such low BB/9 numbers.

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 1, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference is

That Wainwright and Carpenter can and will strike people out when needed.

by Evilfrog on Oct 1, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO BOOG.

in either of those two Piñeiro starts.

Boog is practically a quarter of a pitcher behind Jo-El, an eighth behind Wainer and Carp. The only guy who doesn’t need him is Smoltz.

The other thing is, Kick Save has shown a willingness to go for the K when he can’t induce groundballs. With varying results, but he’s not weaponless up there.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in that sense, I am fairly worried about the third base side

The minute we put in a 3B with limited range, we’re dead. Brendan can’t get to the hard hit balls in that direction, and Holliday — despite his improvements in the last week or so — looks to have terrible range going forward.

Colby or whomever also needs to run faster to those balls up the middle.

Otherwise it overlaps pretty well. Albert covers for Skip’s weak side, Skip covers for Boog’s (plus some of Ludwick’s territory), Boog covers for the third baseman’s weak side, and if, if Boog turns the DP without skying it, it’s locked pretty tight.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

totally

BOOG makes these guys better. He raises the stakes, but he almost always makes those tough outs. He really elevates the play on the defensive side, almost like El Hombre can on the offensive side.

Believe it if you need it
or leave it if you dare......

by Cardinalnation on Oct 1, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

great post chuckb

Great insight to a great team and hopefully we can make that kind of history this year.

Believe it if you need it
or leave it if you dare......

by Cardinalnation on Oct 1, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

something I just noticed

if Pujols is going to win the triple crown his best time to push is NOW, Hanley is hitless in his last 4 games, and stuck at .341, Pujols is at .330 and Pujols his only 4 RBI’s away from the lead right now and still 3 HR’s ahead

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Oct 1, 2009 8:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

to raise his average 12 points in 4 games is pretty hard to do this late in the season

He would essentially need 12 hits over the last 4 games to raise his average ahead of Hanley’s .341. While not impossible it is nearing that realm. And that is assuming Hanley doesnt come up any. Hell, the way this offense is going getting 4 RBI is going to be impossible.

I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

by nomar34 on Oct 1, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

whos to say

hanley stays in this slump and Pujols goes on a rampage

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Oct 1, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Triple Crown, unfortunately, just isn't going to happen

I know its a little silly, but I would really like to see Albert get to 50 HRs.

by mattyp on Oct 1, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i dont think it

will either, but just saying the stats right now are in his favor if he gets hot

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Oct 1, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah he looked a lock to make 50 at one point

I’m still hoping. I’d have liked to have seen us push up into the high-90s, win-wise, too (even threaten 100) but with the september swoon it looks like we’ll finish a bit below that.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Oct 1, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

me too

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 1, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep

I would like to see 50 too.

Believe it if you need it
or leave it if you dare......

by Cardinalnation on Oct 1, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i dont know...

according to the poster below there is “no way to win” so might as well push it in these meaningless games…

I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

by nomar34 on Oct 1, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tigers in 3!

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buddy Walk is this weekend.

He’ll go off.

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't that used to be in April?

Did they move it back just to get APu hot for the playoffs?

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not that i know of

i think its always been in september

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Oct 1, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what happens in April then?

there is always this one weekend in April where he has the kids out and goes apeshit crazy (or maybe it is all in my head)

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Easter

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great stuff.

The comparison is quite refreshing. We all know great pitching beats great hitting, which might be our law coming into the postseason. Do remember that we have to beat great offenses like the Dodgers, the Phillies, and yes I will be bold and say New York. And qith that 1-2 punch, it might all be possible. What about the no. 3 guy for the D-backs in ´01? Was he as good or comparable to what Pineiro has been this year?

I want the Walrus back...

by Paulspike on Oct 1, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Miguel Batista wasn't as good as Pineiro.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

one difference not mentioned

the Dbacks had home field advantage throughout. The Cardinals will have nothing. If this offense remains as sick as it is now you will see nothing but wasted pitching.

by ridgesee on Oct 1, 2009 9:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And Carp and Waino have been better at home

Where in a 7 game series they would collectively pitch 1 game.

by OCCardsFan on Oct 1, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As illustrated above in the graphic

Johnson/Schilling>>Carpenter/Wainwright

plus

09 Yankees>01 Yankees

There’s no way to win.

by olddomination on Oct 1, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

tigers in 3

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

exactly.

"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5

"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.

by Tudor's Electric Fan on Oct 1, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

He hates the Cardinals. And baseball. And America. And apple pie.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adam Dunn?

I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

by nomar34 on Oct 1, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Close.

An iraqi Adam Dunn

I want the Walrus back...

by Paulspike on Oct 1, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're missing this meme...

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there it is.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sugar dates and figs! Sugar dates and pistachios!

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Aladdin reference ftw!

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I figured somebody would eventually get it.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's my favorite Disney movie.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Abu!

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Oct 1, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

APu!

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And mustaches.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adsama Dunnladen?

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(wrong nationality)

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's just that every post I remember seeing him make

are always about how awful the cardinals are or how awful our players or. Maybe it’s just all the losses lately.

by Evilfrog on Oct 1, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's been going on for a bit now.

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have been trying to be ultra-positive to ward off all this negative energy lately

It is more than a one person job. I need help people! I don’t want to have to bother Colby-wan during this important time of the year.

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know what's really rad?

The Cardinals haven’t won this many games since 2005. And we have healthy Carp and healthy Waino at the same time. Oh, and we have Albert Pujols on our team and he’s the best person in the universe at playing baseball.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand some of these people

that do nothing but negative posts. Either they aren’t really Cardinal fans (cuz there has been 6ly good reasons to post good thoughts this season), or they are just miserable people. I am really hoping for the former.

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh

I don’t get it either. And it’s completely legit to point out with logic and evidence why the team has a low probability of succeeding in certain situations. But some people seem like they just have this need to complain all the time. I don’t know if this poster is one of those people personally, because I haven’t been keeping track.
Here’s a positive note to end on: Colby Rasmus is a for-real major leaguer. Yaaay!

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i'm pretty miserable

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Oct 2, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aplpe Pie....

…is good with vanilla ice cream. made from happy cows.
:=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Oct 1, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

tic-tac-toe?

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WarGames

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Yankees fan hanging around VEB. Interesting

I had forgotten this bit of wisdom you gifted us with:

Greinke is a bit overrated

I’d like to see how he’d fare against the Yankees this year.

He doesn’t deserve the AL Cy Young without facing the Yankees. To be considered the best, you have to beat the best, which I doubt he could do. The Yankees would chew him up and smack around his fraudulent ERA.

It's official. Cardinals third basemen are jinxed.

by YesWeOquendo on Oct 1, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my favorite reply there was that CC therefore couldn't win the CY

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no Yankee EVAR could again

amirite? The Yankees are always going to be the best team in baseball

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh

Yeah, a K/9 of 9.55, a BB/9 of 1.97 (K/BB of 4.84) and a HR/9 of 0.44 are just the kind of numbers that indicate “fraudulent” ERA to me.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

please ban this poster.

I’m tired of concern trolling.
I’m 100 percent serious.

None of his pessimistic comments are helpful, thoughtful, or based in any actual analysis. They’re just whiny doomsaying. A week ago it was that the cards would never win again and the cubs would never lose and we wouldn’t make the postseason.

I don’t know what your issues are but please take them elsewhere.

the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus

by tom s. on Oct 1, 2009 11:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

just flag 'em.

no need to feed.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

its time for a dont feed the troll effort

if we all ignore him he will eventually go away

by FunkeeC on Oct 1, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least issue a warning or something.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

Perfect.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I normally frown upon futball references, but this one gets a rec

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think there are grounds for a ban here.

This is pretty tame stuff he’s posting if pessimistic.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Oct 1, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

If you don’t like the discussion with him, don’t discuss with him.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't necessarily believe these people need banned

but a few of these types are on the periphery of trolldom. Is trolling a bannable offense?

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if we're BCB... then no.

[smiley face]

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he gets an F in logic but at least it's about baseball....

it seems like 80% of posts lately are internet flirting and pictures of cats.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 1, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There was one night of cat-posting, people.

One night. Sheesh. We’ll never live it down.

"I’m going to come after you." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Oct 1, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll always like cats more than trolls

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Diabeetus

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was in context!

"I’m going to come after you." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Oct 1, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The no-game-having internet flirters get on my nerves.

Cat pictures, on the other hand, can stay.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i can't help that i'm sexy & everybody wants a piece

we all have our cross’s to carry, i guess this is one of mine

pretzels pretzels pretzels pretzels

by gdm426 on Oct 2, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Might as well not play.

"I’m going to come after you." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Oct 1, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we are going to lose in 2 games

Positronic Upgraded Juggernaut Optimized for Logical Sabotage

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 1, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Johnson was the Cardinals Bitch

We had a career 142+ OPS against him. Easily the highest against him of any other team. I heard he was allergic to pies.

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 1, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

maybe tale of 2 and 1/2 aces?

Kinda can’t overlook pinata….that 1…2……….3 combo is pretty delicious in post season.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 9:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would love it if TLR pulled a rabbit out of his cap

and sent Smoltz out at the first sign of Piñeiro laboring, in the kind of (unintentional) 1-2 punch they’re doing with the oldtimers in Philly.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is an excellent strategy.

Actually, if the game is very close when Adam or Chris or Joel leave, it should be in Smoltz/Franklins hands.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Middle of the Order

Chuck, I have a minor quibble.

That’s not to say that our aces don’t have the capability of leading the team to the championship. Johnson and Schilling didn’t have Albert Pujols in the middle of their order, after all.

Luis Gonzalez was an extremely potent bat for the Snakes that season.

‘01 Luis Gonzalez: .325/ .429/ .688/ 1.117/ 57 HR/ 36 2B/ 142 RBI (if you care about this sort of thing)
’09 Albert Pujols: .330/ .445/ .667/ 1.112/ 47 HR/ 43 2B/ 134 RBI

In fact, Luis Gonzalez, of the ’01 vintage, was ridiculous.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

mmmmm.... steroidy.

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i love to say Fritz is right...

because he usually is.

I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

by nomar34 on Oct 1, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

PEDs

You could just as easily say it about the 2001 NL Rookie of the Year, who hit .329/ .403/ .610/ 1.013 with 37 HR and finished fourth to Gonzalez’s third in the MVP vote. I’m not saying that either of them did or did not use PEDs. I wouldn’t say that because I don’t know. What I am saying is that we have the same amount of evidence to support such speculation about each player, so such speculation is unproductive, even if it is an inevitable biproduct of the PED era.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LUIS GONZALEZ HIT 57 HRS.

35 more than his career average (weighted with that season, too). Outside of Brady Anderson, he’s my steroid poster boy.

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've always suspected

this guy.

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Piazza

Have you seen the reporting that Piazza would openly discuss using steroids with reporters and, because of this, they felt he had told them off-the-record and in confidence, so they didn’t report on it?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He also played most of his career at Arlington, which is a bandbox.

But I wouldn’t be surprised.

"I’m going to come after you." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Oct 1, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was on at least two teams that had multiple other users during his tenure.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

I, for one, also thought for ages that Clemens was absolutely the most obvious roider on the pitching side of the game that I’d ever seen; seems because he was a good ol’ boy and popular on the east coast he never really got tarred with that brush until all the stuff came out in the last 2 years.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Oct 1, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and his SLG went up

noticeably after 1998….he lingered from the .450s until Mac/Sosa chase…then he was in the .550-.688 range from 31 years old to 36.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roger Maris had 3 seasons of the slugging percentage above .485.

He hit more than 30 HRs three times and more than 39 HRs once. It can happen.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

roger marris's power surge

came in his 3rd year of the bigs, in his mid 20s

Gonz’s jump was after 8 years and in his 30s

I fail to see a correlation.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OMS!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except that an increase in power is not out of the norm for players as they age.

In fact, if I remember correctly, this has been analyzed by Baseball Prospectus and is used in PECOTA. Speed declines but power increases, as a general rule, when a player hits 30. Mark DeRosa is an example of this. Even though he had a career-high in HRs last year, and again this year, in his 30s, I don’t feel comfortable declaring him to be a steroid user. Sure, his increase was from 13 to 21, but that is still a significant uptick at 61 percent. Gonzalez’s increase in 2001 was about 38 percent. Gonzalez is not like Sosa, where he went from a 30ish HR/year hitter to consistently 50-65 HRs for multiple years. Gonzalez had one spike year, 2001, and then never hit more than 30 HR. If he were using them, did he then stop using steroids after 2001, which led to his lower HR numbers? I doubt it.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's like Sosa, alright.

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I don't think Gonzo is.

Gonzalez HR totals:

13, 10, 15, 8, 13, 13, 15, 10, 23, 26 (led the NL in hits with 206), 31, 57, 28, 26, 17, 24, 15, 15, 8

Sosa HR totals:

15, 10, 8, 33, 25, 36, 40, 36, 66, 63, 50, 64, 49, 40, 35, 14, 21

Gonzo had one year of ridiculous HR production. Sosa had four (or more). I don’t think it’s fair to say that Luis Gonzalez hit 57 HRs in 2001 because he was PEDs because I think a ballplayer would be a fool to stop using after 2001, given his success. If he didn’t stop using after 2001, then why didn’t he continue to put up Sosa-esque numbers? If he did stop, then why didn’t he drop off to pre-1998, 20-something HR production? The rest of his numbers seem fairly in line with good hitters who developed power.

Also, Gonzalez left Detroit for Arizona beginning in 1999 and the Snakepit (or whatever the corporate name is these days) has consistently been one of, if not the most, hitter-friendly ballparks in all of MLB. In 2001, Chase’s HR Factor was 1.372, tied for 5th in all of MLB.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying Gonzalez did *not* use.

I’m saying that we cannot be any more certain that Gonzalez did use than we can that Pujols has not used. As such, I don’t think delving into such speculation is productive.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I personally associate large spikes in a players performance

To a higher probability of taking steroids. I am not talking about a player having a good year. But having a monster year out of the blue that is not luck driven

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 1, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We don't know what drove it.

Or, at least I don’t. Fangraphs only has batted ball data from 2002 forward.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well yeah, i get that

i’m just saying lawyering it up just sounds silly. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence to flag the guy.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and the gun show agrees

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Physique

Isn’t that the type of muscle tone you see on 9 out of 10 big-league OFers, even today? Matt Holliday comes to mind.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think even Holliday is that vein-y.

"I’m going to come after you." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Oct 1, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn't he on the leaked list?

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought that the leaked list was fake?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was

cause wasn’t pujols also on some fake list before the Mitchell report dropped?

by FunkeeC on Oct 1, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought that was just channel 2?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct.

"I’m going to come after you." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Oct 1, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which list are we talking about, the Mitchell report?

The leaked list of the Mitchell report was indeed fake. Albert’s name, for example was on the fake list but not the real one.
I thought it was pretty obvious that said fake list was just slapping together anybody who seemed “suspicious”.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought I read a leaked list that had no Pujols.

Gonzo, Sheffield, Melvin Mora, I forget where I saw that but obviously it wasn’t real if it wasn’t big news.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

'Roid Arms....

:=8/

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Oct 1, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My position:

It’s a serious accusation to make because it will forever taint the player’s career. Even sitting here in my mother’s basement, behind the anonymity of an avatar, I don’t feel it to be a worthwhile exercise for VEB. Without something more, I personally do not feel comfortable labeling Luis Gonzalez, no matter how absurd his 2001 season, a PED user.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my position

is this whole retrospective morality is complete bullshit.

Everybody then knew what was going on…nobody cared, front offices begged players. It’s just like the ball juicing, apparently. Everybody does it, everybody knows about it.

It’s just naive to say “NUH UH” when it’s obvious.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the manufactured sanctimony, especially from the press.

I believe that if the BBWAA won’t induct suspected PED users from that era, then no baseball writer with clubhouse access should be inducted either, because they were substandard reporters if they did not break the PED story, which, obviously, none of them did. It’s complete nonsense.

And I’m not turning a blind eye to the overall culture of PEDs. I just don’t feel comfortable pinning a scarlet letter on every player who had a good season.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's a good point

does that exclude Strauss….?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's excluded on his own merits.

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'd like some insurance

since they don’t look at stats

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point.

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's the thing

it wasn’t “one good season”. It was several, in the twilight of his career, during the height of the PED explosion, when his arms looked like genetic freaks for a guy that was skin and bones before the PED explosion.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I posted this above, but here it is again.

Gonzalez HR totals:

13, 10, 15, 8, 13, 13, 15, 10, 23, 26 (led the NL in hits with 206), 31, 57, 28, 26, 17, 24, 15, 15, 8

Two seasons with more than 30 HRs, and all of his 25+ HR seasons coming after he moved to the then-BOB, a renowned HR park.

As for phsyique, skin-and-bone to jacked-up ’roid freak?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

holy fun with myspace camera angles!

and HRs are the only indicator of power? I suppose since Clemens’s Wins were below 20 he wasn’t juicing either.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I tried to get as close to the same angle as possible.

And you know that comparing “wins” to home runs is absurd, since wins are so team-dependent.

HRs are certainly not the only indicator of power, but I think we would all agree that they are the best indicator of power. There is also doubles and slugging percentage; although, I didn’t think that slugging percentage was that appropriate since the increase in total hits by Gonzalez would drive up that total. In 1999, Gonzalez led the league in hits with 206 and had at least 150 hits in every year from 1999 through 2006 (save his injury-plagued 2004). Maybe this increase in overall hits is attributable to steroids. Maybe his increase in walks over this time period is attributable to steroids, as well. Or, maybe he developed a better grasp of the strikezone, which led to more walks and more hits and in 1998 57 of those hits left the ballpark. I don’t know. That’s why I can’t definitively declare him a ’roider.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gonzalez's season was so blatantly out of line with the rest of his career

It has steroids written all over it…Pujols has consistently at that level…so either Pujols has been on roids every year since ’01(which, considering he is tested multiple times every year and has never failed, i highly doubt) or pujols is amazing and gonzalez is a quality ballplayer who used the juice in the years around 01

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Oct 1, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols has never had a non-PED era season.

Therefore, there’s nothing to gauge any of his career numbers against. You can’t use the same argument to clear Pujols as condemn Gonzalez.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

swear i already posted this

albert has consistently put up those numbers, has been repeatedly tested, and never failed

gonzalez had one great year, before testing was in place….would not shock me at all for him to be on the ’03 list

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Oct 1, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2003 List

It would not surprise me either if Gonzalez were on the list, but it would not surprise me if Derek Jeter or Jim Edmonds were on the list, either. It wouldn’t surprise me if Matt Morris were on the list. It wouldn’t surprise me if Mike Matheny were on the list. Why would any player being on the 2003 list surprise any of us? Shouldn’t we be beyond such surprise? Being not surprised is quite a ways away from stating outright that someone used PEDs.

Furthermore, Mark McGwire hit 49 HRs in his rookie season and posted Pujolsian power numbers until injuries in 1993 and ‘94. He then hit 52, 58, 58, 70, and 65. If we use the whole "he’s consistently had power numbers and never tested positive" rationale, then McGwire should have his statue out next to Ozzie’s at the corner of Clark & Seventh. Sure, McGwire had an awful bit of testimony before a Congressional committee, but I don’t think that him spouting what a lawyer told him to spout is so damning as to cast the man out of the HOF and Cardinal Nation as a PED user. Yes, Pujols has consistently and forcefully denied using PEDs, and I believe him, but Rafael Palmeiro did the same thing and more forcefully (because he was under oath).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure where to jump in

But at the time Gonzalez was going on his HR binge, there was a fair amount of discussion over how he’d changed his stance. Maybe the Painguy remembers, but it was basically a time series showing the evolution of his stance over 3 teams.

It doesn’t mean he didn’t do PEDs, but it IS an alternative hypothesis not raised above. And the fact that he did not have a long tail (let’s just call it a Bondsian or Clemensian tail) to that spike means that he may have just found his stance a little too late in his career for it to have helped him for long.

I hate PED use in the game, and certainly have my own suspect list. But we’re also in an era with extremely good analysis tools, medical treatment, and nutrition. The first would seem to increase the chance that a player can legitimately find his “sweet spot” rather suddenly to jump up one-half letter grade, and the latter two would seem to help players stay potent longer (or even linger long enough to find their success unusually late).

by siddfynch on Oct 2, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2001 NLDS

Don’t get me started. I was at Game 3 of that series and if Tony didn’t leave Mike Matthews in for way too long, we very well could’ve won that thing. The single most frustrating game I’ve been at in person (and I was at both of Ankiel’s 2000 playoff starts).

by raisin1 on Oct 1, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I watched game 5 in my dorm room with a friend of mine (jroman around these parts)

After losing the series, we were understandably upset, though Jeff more so. As he was leaving the dorm, he ripped some random papers off the wall in the hallway across from my room and tore them to shreds before heading home.

The next morning, on my way to class, I noticed one of the girls from across the hall fighting back tears while she taped those pieces of paper back on to the wall. It turns out Jeff had ripped up a certificate recognizing that she had won a student council election. She (understandably, I suppose) assumed that the certificate had been maliciously destroyed by the losing party.

To top things off, later that night, she brought freshly baked cookies to me and my roomates. I’m pretty sure she had baked them to make herself feel better and was just sharing them around the dorm, and I obviously felt pretty awful about it (though not enough to fess up, apparently).

The moral of the story is, bad things happen when the Cardinals lose in the playoffs. Let’s not have a repeat performance.

by brackenthebox on Oct 1, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is epic.

If she was cute I woulda tried to bag her in her vulnerable state.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is an amazing story.

I was in college at the time as well. I would celebrate Cardinals’ accomplishments by printing up flyers for NL Central Champions, NLDS Champions, Albert Pujols ROY, etc. Cubs fans did NOT like this, and they liked it even less in 2003 when I printed up Florida Marlins NL Champs and World Champs flyers and put them all around the dorm.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't mean to hijack a thread or nuthin'

but people should make sure to check out brackenthebox’s latest fanshot.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 10:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Aye

This Corky Ramone kid deserves recs aplenty.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So did anyone else see the

picture of Kenny Rogers Bronson Arroyo last night?

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 10:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

DD's not bitter though
Asked if he had seen Arroyo go to his cap, Duncan said, “Just every pitch.”

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...so why did Captian and Commander Crotchedy not say anything??

….is there some sort of unwritten rule is you don’t say anything if you catch the pitcher juicing the ball?

Eddie Harris couldn’t be reached for comment.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they did

they each complained. separately. then after the game.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I found it odd

that the plate ump would not go out to break up DD and Smotzl. It was like no…he can just stay there, I ain’t going out there.

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I swear some of these umps really are on the take

Maybe it’s selection bias because we’re used to the ‘known’ umps and what they do — but that’s just it. We ask for consistency. If the strike zone’s gonna be sh*t, then keep it the same strike zone. For each pitcher!

I’ve a mind to look for every game we yelled about the umps and see how long they’ve been in the league.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm unclear on this.

From the P-D’s article, I took it to mean that the Cardinals complained about the slickness of the baseballs only, not the fact that Arroyo was going to his bill for pine tar.

Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan, who raised the issue of what he termed unrubbed baseballs with Culbreth and crew chief Gary Cederstrom on the field, wasn’t so generous in assessing Arroyo’s success with the same baseballs Smoltz was using.



Duncan said he didn’t and wouldn’t ask the umpires to investigate Arroyo’s head gear. “It’s gamesmanship,” Duncan said.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It brings up the question I asked in my NLDS Fanpost:

Why wouldn’t you put pine tar on Smoltzy’s bill? Tit for tat, ya know? Of course, this type of logic makes PED using okay because everyone else was doing it. Oi….

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i still don't buy the "gameman ship"

unless he’s preparing his ass for when his pitchers get caught…which if that’s the case then fine.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

USS Gameman?

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you sunk my gameman ship!

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Oct 1, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

for whatever reason, TLR doesn't like to protest these flagrant violations

(that’s not suspicious at all)

After 2006, though, it’ll be that much harder not to. It gets so dicey as the temperature drops… everyone has to keep their hands warm and there’s the whole issue of traction on the ball. Or whatever.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Larussa won't complain...

…because the Cards pitchers are doing the same stuff only being much more covert about it. Watch how often some of the cards pitchers go to their forearm or back of neck. You will catch them occasionally. They have suntan lotion on their arms during night games to moisten their hands to get a better grip. I am sure Wainwright does this a lot.

by BigJawnMize on Oct 1, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is this true?

I have heard it before in reference to DD being big on doctoring balls and that being one of the reasons that crappy pitchers turn good in STL. In that instance I also didn’t hear any real evidence.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, no, no.

It’s because Duncan is great at spotting how pitchers are tipping pitches.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's simple

the reds have nothing to lose. The cards are getting ready for post season. The season is bigger than a game.

by _pistol_ on Oct 1, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are Dollar Big Macs back on for the playoffs?

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon

by Alxfritz on Oct 1, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dunno

But if Jose Reyes steals a base, America wins a free taco.

by cloistermaximus on Oct 1, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the most exciting free taco ever

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not as clear cut as it seems

No doubt that Johnson and Schilling were dominant pitchers that season but I would not overlook difference in the types of batted balls they gave up when balls were put in play. Fangraphs doesn’t have batted ball data for 2001 but you can make reasonable estimates based on data from 2002 through 2005. Using that data, you can estimate their tRA for 2001 and compare that with the 2009 numbers for Carp, Wainwright and Pineiro.

2001
Johnson: FIP = 2.13, tRA (est.) = 2.77
Schilling: FIP = 3.11, tRA (est.) = 4.11

2009
Carp: FIP = 2.79, tRA = 3.02
Wainwright: FIP = 3.15, tRA = 3.59
Pineiro: FIP = 3.22, tRA = 3.46

Using that data, the difference isn’t that great and there is an argument to be made that the Cardinals starting rotation this season is a least as good as the Diamondback’s was in 2001. Having said that, there is no guarantee that you’ll be able to put up those numbers in the postseason. If you remember, Johnson didn’t have a good postseason in 2002 even though he had another great regular season that year.

by kjblair on Oct 1, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Seems like an indictment of tRA and FIP

I remember that season by Schilling very clearly. I wouldn’t trade him for 3 Joel Pineiros.

by siddfynch on Oct 2, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just wishe the offense would start playing like an offense

that has Pujols, Holliday, and Ludwick hitting 3-4-5…i hope this last season slump doesnt get us in a funk for the playoffs

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

by VolsnCards5 on Oct 1, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I fear that it's not so much a slump

as a good portion of the clubhouse might be fighting off infection. They’ve actually been sickly all season long, on and off.

Bacon lung may well steal our playoff run.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That damn Stavinoha!!!

I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

by nomar34 on Oct 1, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i laughed

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

as annoying as Josh is, he does know who Brendan Ryan is

Number 3 Top Plays. “A mustachioed Brendan Ryan is the very best Brendan Ryan of all …. Behold the power of the stache.”

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Today's lineup

Schumaker – 2B
Rasmus – CF
Holliday – LF
Glaus – 3B
Ankiel – RF
Freese – 1B
Molina – C
Ryan – SS
Carpenter – P

Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!

by vexedtechie on Oct 1, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a day game?

Darn it.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm amused you're disappointed by that

and not about no mang

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is upsetting

but less upsetting since I can’t really watch it.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ugh, what did I just say about bacon lung

FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know.

I haven’t read every post.I’m in class and trying to half pay attention.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not hollerin' at you

I’m hollerin’ at the GOB

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay.

Go on and holler then.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Free Allen Craig!

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, baseball players are pansies!

Flu = a severe, debilitating viral infection causing extreme exhaustion, potential vomiting, lots of other nastiness, and generally leaving you bed-ridden for several days, and weak for at least a fortnight. If a ballplayer ever gets the flu, they will out for a lot more than one game.

I think they need to start calling a spade a spade and use the term “Common cold-like symptoms” instead.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Oct 1, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Flu infections vary in severity depending on their point of origin and health of the person infected.

But the proportion of baseball players who just happen to get the one game flu is pretty damn high.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Oct 1, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh

the cursed 24 hour bug that strikes once every 2 weeks. It’s an epidemic. Can we call this one Ball Flu.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Oct 1, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

[I will be ending all my questions in periods from now on.]

Are you ok with that.

Future Redbirds - tracking Cardinal prospects for Cardinal Nation

by azruavatar on Oct 1, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Someone needs to patch Az?

"I’m going to come after you." - Chris Carpenter

by spants on Oct 1, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is the Pope Catholic.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless he gets a PH HR, his streak stands at 18 homerless games.

That would tie his 2nd longest homerless streak.

2007 – 22
2005 – 18
2002 – 18
2009 – 17
2008 – 17
2003 – 14
2001 – 12
2004 – 10
2006 – 8

Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!

by vexedtechie on Oct 1, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's assuming he PHs

I guess if we’re 8 runs down in the 7th it’s unlikely he’ll take a PA.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Oct 1, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So much for playing his way through the slump (not that I mind him getting rest having clinched)

Did something happen to Albert or is this just a day off?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

caught the bug.

now I’m really worried. 2-5 day incubation period for the flu. if the team caught this in Houston, and it’s spreading right now, some of the moves may be moot

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's only fair.

Level the playing field, you know.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hahahah

oh SNAP

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Grady Sizemore fleece blankets were infected?!

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

gotta be careful with that

Or we’ll have to end up strapping 40 pounds of birdshot around Albert’s neck and make Duncan wear headphones that distract him every 30 seconds.

by brackenthebox on Oct 1, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only if it helps us.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not as fair-minded as I try to be.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you saying Duncan can be distracted from his beloved book?

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Headphones

I feel like that every day, but I’m not going back on Adderall.

BTW, one of my favorite short stories.

Don't argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - anon.

by Solanus on Oct 2, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

THIS JUST IN

Albert is magically better now!!!

I guess his healing tears work on… himself!

Or maybe that’s snot. Ewww. I guess I’m just not going to question the mang.

(So…. who told him about the Triple Crown, the HR race, and the RBI race?)

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I knew it.

He’s not mortal. Don’t let the other teams know. They may call foul play.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Oct 1, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forget two aces...

2006 proved that all you need is one! (Plus a few other guys to start pitching like aces once the postseason starts…)

Seriously, though, I think that whatever else we’ve seen over the past decade or so from the postseason and its unpredictability, the one thing you can still say is this: great pitching beats great hitting. Even in ‘06, the fluke year to end all fluke years, great pitching was the key. And this is why I think that the Cards are in the best situation of any team going into the postseason (with the exception, perhaps, of the Yankees, but I’d be willing to debate even that one): Carp and Waino are, to me, pretty clearly the two best starting pitchers in the postseason, and Pineiro’s no slouch, either.

by splhcb67 on Oct 1, 2009 11:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

NEW LINEUP.

Guess Albert wasn’t feeling well when he got to the ballpark.

Schumaker – 2B
Rasmus – CF
Pujols – 1B
Holliday – LF
Ankiel – RF
Glaus – 3B
Molina – C
Ryan – SS
Carpenter – P

Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!

by vexedtechie on Oct 1, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Albert in; Glaus moved from 4-hole to 6-hole

Yo MLBPA, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Albert is the most ridiculous player of all time. OF ALL TIME!

by vexedtechie on Oct 1, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really wish Freese would have got the start at 3B

Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 1, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

move over, holliday

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Oct 1, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

he looks like one of those kids always picked last.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 1, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

recap package for 2009!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Skip says if it doesn't work, it's his fault. February.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fast forward through the pitching story.

now the trades.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

now the STACHES!

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they actually said "internet haters"

re: Duncan

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

absolutely no mention of Boog. sadface.

the quicker montage they aired just the one time is still the best package

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is getting interesting

link

clubhouse attendant saying the balls weren’t right?

by RedJoker on Oct 1, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I dunno, man. you must not be in the game threads much.

lots of mileage there…

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The TLR crossexamination is classic.

I also enjoy his concluding remark to the clubhouse attendant in charge of rubbing balls (which I hope is on his business card).

La Russa said, "I knew they were up to shenanigans. I appreciate you saying that."

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

shenanigans!

where’s the picture

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I call Shenanigans

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good lord!

I hope those Cincinnati ruffians don’t escalate this to JAPES!

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Oct 1, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I liked the Duncan quote too

“That was pretty (lousy).” Now we get to all wonder what word he really used.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would wager

That it started with an “s” and ended with a “hitty.”

by splhcb67 on Oct 1, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish the Cards were hitty.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Oct 1, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Way OT: who is the geneticist on here?

my son is interested in genetics, and I’d like to give him an idea of what subjects to study in case he wants to pursue a career in genetics.

youneverknow

by floodOfLove on Oct 1, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am

Depends what level of schooling he’s at, but obviously biology is a must. I would definitely recommend chemistry too.

I should add that I’m educated and work in the UK, so I’m not 100% sure of the US system – I have a degree in biology, and my postgraduate studies are more genetics-orientated. Degrees in various types of genetics are available which will be more restrictive on career choices but probably give you a better head start on the subject itself. My post-graduate training is in a specific field (medical, specialising in molecular rather than cytogenetics).

For A-Level study (erm, I guess the equivalent of the last couple of years of high school in the US?) I took chemistry, biology and mathematics, which (I’d say) are the three core subjects most relevant to the discipline. However, I assume (at least until he hits university) that biology would be the only really essential one to have some grounding in.

Felonius Monk - bitching to contact since 2008

by Felonius_Monk on Oct 1, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not in genetics explicitly

but the class I most wish I (and everyone I interact with) had paid more attention to in college is probability and statistics. There is a massive amount of data being generated now and being able to interpret it (or at least critique other people’s interpretations) intelligently is essential.

by brackenthebox on Oct 1, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

now a feature on Skip's Weltschmerz

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Reds Blog

Is just saying we are bitching that we lost. I showed them the picture of Arroyo hat and they just said Smoltz puts tar on his dong.

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 1, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and can you refute that?

then shut up. you got told, dude

Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.

by prophetjohn on Oct 1, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just tell them

that we hope to have their support in the playoffs.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

correction

Bronson puts tar on his dong. but not to help him cheat at pitching, but for the ladies.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 1, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cat just insulted the Reds mascot

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Cat senses a little urgency

regarding the offense.

Timingwick! It’s called a game plan when you get to the plate! Tryitwick.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

GAMETIME.

Get in your seats or Carp will come after you.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Slick balls on

Deadspin now and a better DD quote.

I’m sure he had pine tar on his cap. He didn’t have any problem getting a grip. Balls like that can generate a lot more movement than a slick ball that hasn’t been rubbed up … I’ve been around for 40-plus years now and I’ve never seen a major-league baseball game played with balls like that.

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The giggle boiled up inside of me throughout the P-D's multiple "Ballgate" stories...

…but, it bubbled over with this pullquote.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Oct 1, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Link Fail

Deadspin

"Obviously, tipping pitches didn't help" - John Smotzl
"If you disrespect the Baseball Gods, you'll get slapped." - TLR Passan

by RiverRat on Oct 1, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there is base-ball on, yo.

Skip’s already adjusted his gloves three times.

"It was like two ankles." AVENGE BOOG
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 1, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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