Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: U.S. Government Shuts Down Streaming Websites

Friday Briefs

Hoffman to the Brewers. That is, I think, a little more than people were expecting Hoffman to get, but it's really academic for the Cardinals; he seemed to have never been in the plans, even when La Russa's comments made the team out to be in double-plus closer search mode, and anyway that's a lot of free payroll to give up for a guy who's got the same two pitches I do. 

The test on a guy like Hoffman is this: if he weren't already the closer, would his last three or four years have put him in contention for his team's closer job? Hoffman has some really nice ERAs, and he won't walk anybody, but at this point, probably not. 

Uehara to the Orioles. Where, I wonder, does this set the market for Kenshin Kawakami, noted VEB heartthrob? Uehara's two-year, $10 million deal reflects uncertainty not just about the free agent economy but about Uehara in particular—his stint as a reliever, his bouts with injury and erraticness—that are not present in his fellow export.

But I think it also makes it much more likely that Kawakami doesn't get the three years he's supposed to want.. He seems like a good place to try and invest the repurposed Brian Fuentes money, if nothing else; while Ben Sheets is the better pitcher, Kawakami and his slow-motion curveball will not cost a draft pick or develop weird Ben Sheets-specific injuries like shoulder rejection and scarlet tendons. 

What's on second: This quote from Tony La Russa, noted by Derrick Goold yesterday at Bird Land, is deserving of the no-comment pull quote. Hey, Tony, are either of the middle infield spots in flux?

"Any middle infielder who is not Khalil Greene is in a competition," La Russa said. "Same deal as last year."

Offseason blog exercise draws admiring link: At Fungoes Pip has distilled the seasons of several important Cardinals into exactly six words. For the Post-Dispatch's coverage of the free agent season, with its low-hanging buzzwords and Miles-induced malaise—the Cards Talk subhead, right now, is seriously "Sound off about DeWitt, payroll, more", and I'm sure by that they mean that people should discuss both sides of the issue in a measured, jocular tone—I humbly offer: "DeWitt, DeWallet, Get it? Same prefixes!"

As mentioned on this very front page, Kevin Goldstein, variously of Baseballs America and Prospectuscame out with his Cardinals Top 11. Noticeably absent: Pete Kozma, honorable mention; Allen Craig and David Freese. Noticeably present: Adam Reifer. I get that he inspires what Goldstein refers to as "crazy" notices from scouts, and that he throws really hard, but the guy is a) a  relief pitcher b) coming off an injury and c) pitching in the New York-Penn League.

Placing him ahead of Jason Motte, who throws just as really hard and shut down the PCL last year, is a lot of weight to place on a "devastating" slider, which I'm pretty sure every dominant minor league reliever is assigned by writers and scouts up until he reaches the majors and everyone can see it.

One other interesting thing: Goldstein becomes the first prospect hound of all time to go on about Jess Todd for more than fifteen words without using some combination of "bullpen" or "relief." 

Comment 132 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Jess Todd

I really hope he can stick as a starter. I’m glad someone thinks he can. I’m not sure that I do. Luckily, Goldstein knows a lot more about this than I do…but I bet I know more about Admin Law

by Toddius on Jan 9, 2009 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

Admin law

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

by MattK on Jan 9, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Admin law

That was a bore of a class, but not as bad as Contracts, imo.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 9, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

My favorite six-word memoir was Aaron Miles': "Glad Cubs don’t know about BABIP"

Looper’s was pretty damn good too. Is there any chance at all he comes back to the Cards? I know it’s still formally possible, but have there been any final-sounding comments from either side about how he and the Cards are done? I’ve heard virtually nothing about concrete discussions he’s had with other teams.

by BTown Birds fan on Jan 9, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions  

Wow.

A Newspeak reference in a baseball blog post? DanUp might be my new favorite blogger, now that KT has hung ’em up.

"Chokes it hard down on the knob from the right side. Stands erect deep in the box."

by arch support on Jan 9, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions  

Good points Mr. Up, but Reifer also

a) throws 96-99, b) has a wipeout slider c.) is a pitching pyschopath. d.) fits a scout’s profile of what they look for in a future closer in the big leagues, not just NYPL.

I understand why people are surprised at him being ranked so high, but to me he’s basically another Chris Perez in the system. Injury history is a little troublesome, yes, and no, he doesn’t have a big track record, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him rise all the way to AAA this season.

Of course, I’m setting myself up to look like a fool.

I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9

by erik on Jan 9, 2009 11:00 AM EST reply actions  

I've heard this from a couple of different sources...

That Reifer’s slider is similar to that of Brad Lidge in terms of movement? In other words, instead of a large amount of side-to-side movement, it has a late, sharp downward movement? If I could remember where I saw the links I’d post them, but I honestly have no idea…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 9, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

i can't help but.....

Everytime I hear brad lidge think about that shot pujols hit off of him.

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Jan 9, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn.

I took the over (on 5 years before it landing.)

by stlfan on Jan 10, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Reifer

What type of fastball does he throw?

Running FB with movement like Perez?

Hard FB up in the zone(looks like it jumps) like Motte?

by ICbirdfan on Jan 9, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

At this rate...

…it’ll be ten years before Reifer has “learned his trade” and is “ready” to get the final out.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 9, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't you

feel validated by Goldstein’s ranking? Even if you’re wrong, you’re in good company as far as evaluators go.

by Toddius on Jan 9, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

If I go down, so does Goldstein

I think he’ll be in BA’s Top 15, maybe as high as 11.

Here’s a scouting report to answer the other questions

One scout rated Reifer’s fastball as an 80 pitch on the 20-80 scouting scale, and said when his slider is on, it was at least a 70. His fastball sits around 96-97 mph and tops out at 99, though it dips to 93-95 when he pitches on back-to-back days. He throws his slider at 90-93 mph with tilt. Every once in a while, he mixes in a good changeup at 86-87.

Reifer has an athletic 6-foot-2, 195-pound frame and a good delivery without a lot of effort. He attacks hitters with his fastball and has the stuff and mentality to close in the majors.

I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9

by erik on Jan 9, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That's

a heckuva Faberge egg!

by liam on Jan 9, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Given what you say

about him, what leads to the conclusion that he could be a closer? I like a good closer as much as anyone, but this dude sounds like a badass SP, which he ought to get every chance to become. What’s your thinking behind that?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 9, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Reifer prefers to relieve

and given his injury history, it’s probably better to leave him there

I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9

by erik on Jan 9, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like he's a max-effort guy

With his fastball dipping like that. Such guys tend to sacrifice a lot of velocity when moving to starting.

I like him where he is.

by mojowo11 on Jan 9, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't they used to say

that Prior threw without a lot of effort? And look what he is now. Are these scouts now looking at arm angles, inverted W, etc etc?

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 9, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Dunno about the rest

But they’ve always looked at arm angles if for nothing else its usefulness in projection e.g. a RH pitcher with a high arm slot who say is struggling against lefty hitters is are more likely to improve on that than a RH pitcher with a low arm slot.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 9, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Dear Mr. Up -- come on! no "'reifer' madness" quip?

scouts are crazy for reifer?

somebody in the front office is high on reifer these days?

This stuff just writes itself!

by tom s. on Jan 9, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's hire Matt Morris

to mentor the kid. Matty always seemed like a guy who knew what to do with a spleef.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 9, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

name pronunciation

I have one big problem with this guy Reifer, according to Luhow, he pronounces it “RIFER”. And I was all psyched to get myself a REIFER jersey whenever they the guy made the show and have the t-shirt shop press on a little marijuana emblem right under the name. Those REIFER jersey are going to sell like made!!! I see Amsterdam is a big market. Mr. Adam Reifer needs to learn how to pronounce his own name and then embrace it.

by jjray on Jan 9, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

This is off-topic....

But I’m one obscene signing away from marching on Fenway Park with heavy artillery. Smoltz? How dare they.

by mynameistyler on Jan 9, 2009 11:31 AM EST reply actions  

Most likely.

Boston fans can manage a pretty good defense when they’re sauced. Which is always.

by mynameistyler on Jan 9, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Braves fans around here are irate

“How could they let Smoltz go?! He’s OUR guy!”

The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs

by jd is legend on Jan 9, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Incredible that all of...

the firing squad ended up outside of Atlanta (though Glavine made his triumpant? return). I know it’s the age of free agency and all, but sometimes I find it all disgusting…just like I will if AP ever plays for another team!!

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Jan 9, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

It's nothing new.

If Babe Ruth (Braves), Willie Mays (Mets), Yogi Berra (Mets), and Hank Aaron (Brewers) can end their careers with another team, then so can John Smoltz.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Jan 9, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point.

Musial, Williams, DiMaggio, and Mantle were anomalies.

by spants on Jan 9, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Aaron

Hank Aaron started his career as a Milwaukee Brave so one can see the logic to his ending it as a Milwaukee Brewers. I agree with your point though—baseball is a business.

by jjray on Jan 9, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Same could be said of the Babe

Boston Red Sox to New York Yankees to Boston Braves.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Jan 9, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

And Smoltz, sort of...

Atlanta Braves to Boston Red Sox, former home of the Braves. And, of course, Mike Mussina did it, too, when he left Baltimore to go to the Yankees, since the Yankees began as the Baltimore Orioles. Which means if he were to come out of retirement and sign with the Cardinals, we could say he’s just going home, also, since the current Orioles began as the St. Louis Browns (who actually began as the Milwaukee Brewers). I could go on….

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 9, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Um.

I think you’re taking it a little far now……

Aaron and Ruth actually played in those cities.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Jan 9, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Well,

I was just having fun, but maybe it wasn’t apparent. I’m just setting the stage for a future post wherein I go on and on ad nauseum about a tale of 5 cities (Milwaukee, St. Louis, Baltimore, New York and Seattle).

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 9, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, then I can't wait.

To me, I thought you just weren’t getting the jist of the whole thing. My bad. Looking forward to your 5 City Tale!!!

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Jan 9, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

And

the current Baltimore Orioles are actually the St. Louis Browns.

by spants on Jan 10, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I think

that I said that in my post.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 11, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Not exactly the same

Hank Aaron never got traded from Milwaukee to Atlanta. The franchise moved while he was a member. Babe Ruth was traded from Boston to NYY.

by jjray on Jan 9, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions  

1-Team HOF'ers Harder to Find

With Smoltz going to pitch for the Red Sox, I wonder how many 1-team HOF’ers we will have any time soon. Mariano Rivera with the Yankees comes to mind. Derek Jeter could make the Hall. Jim Rice hasn’t played since the 1980’s, but he could get into the Hall this year. Barry Larkin might make it to Cooperstown, but he’s borderline. Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker won’t make it.

I hope Rivera finishes his career as a Yankee. Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford are the last two HOF’ers, who spent their entire careers in pinstripes. Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, and Goose Gossage played for other teams. Those 1-team HOF’ers are going to become even more rare.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jan 9, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking about that just the other day.

I decided that there are very few teams that might have a one team hall of famer. The yanks, of course, red sox, dodgers, cubs, phillies, giants, angels and cards are the only ones who might be able to afford one. But when you consider Albert will be offered 300 if he makes it to free agency, that may narrow it only to the yanks. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Albert in pinstripes in a few years. Very sad.

victim of the sixties

by victim of the sixties on Jan 9, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Ripken and Gwynn

I think Ripken and Gwynn are the last two HOF’ers who spent their entire careers with a single team.

by krueger427 on Jan 9, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Just Like Brett and Yount

I was glad that Ripken and Gwynn went in together in 2007. Brett and Yount went in together in 1999. Unless Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter go into the Hall in the same year (teammates no less), I don’t ever see two 1-team HOF’ers entering simultaneously again.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jan 9, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Former Red Sox farmhand

does that count?

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 9, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope

I don’t think Bagwell will make the Hall. Smoltz was a Tigers farmhand but was with the Braves his entire major league career until now. It’s a shame he didn’t spend his whole major league career with Atlanta.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jan 9, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Bagwell's HOF chances

It’ll be interesting in a couple years to see how those votes go. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he doesn’t make it the first few years, but I think you can make a pretty good argument that he deserves to be in. He’s got a career 149 OPS+, and he’s in the top 20-40 all-time in quite a few offensive categories. He didn’t hit the magic numbers of 3,000 hits or 500 HR (I guess now that magic number might be 600 HR), but he does have an MVP, five other top 10 MVP finishes, and he’s 34th all-time in MVP shares, to go along with a gold glove. He would certainly have helped his cause if he’d ever done anything useful in the post-season (not that he had a lot of opportunity playing for Houston in the 1990s), but I bet he’ll get some very serious consideration.

by BTown Birds fan on Jan 9, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that he's in, but he might not be first ballot

I think you have to give him some credit for playing in the Astrodome for most of his career, and in his first 5-6 years there it was still a cavernous place to play. If he plays in the Astros current park his whole career he probably hits 550 homers. He was also a pretty good defensive first baseman for most of his career and also had some years with a good number of SB’s as well. I think it’s close, but if guys like Jim Rice can stay on the ballot as long as they have, then Bagwell will probably get in at some point.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 9, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

George Brett was one too

I feel like I just read a story, I think about the Smoltz trade, where they mentioned the number of HOFers that had played their whole career with one team, and it was surprisingly low – less than a couple dozen. But I can’t find that article.

by BTown Birds fan on Jan 9, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

This line:
a “devastating” slider, which I’m pretty sure every dominant minor league reliever is assigned by writers and scouts up until he reaches the majors and everyone can see it.

Love it

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Jan 9, 2009 12:20 PM EST reply actions  

You nailed it on Hoffman

he’s got some pretty good numbers — pretty good K rate, excellent BB/9, and some pretty bad ones — terrible HR/9, horrendous FB% and GB%. He does have 1 other set of numbers in his favor — saves. The bottom line is that if he had been pitching in the 7th or 8th, he’s probably a $2 M reliever at most. In fact, McClellan will probably give us the same results out of the pen this year that Hoffman would have and no one would be excoriating Cards’ management over passing on a middle reliever w/ those numbers. If it weren’t for that ridiculous “saves” stat, he’d look like a whole bunch of other guys, including 1 we could have had but have chosen not to bring back.

by chuckb on Jan 9, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions  

I know chic's dig fastballs and strikeouts...

…but what exactly has Hoffman done the past 4 seasons to suggest he couldn’t be an effective closer. I expect his numbers to rise a bit now that he’s leaving the freindly confines of Petco, but I believe he would have been a great signing for this team. Even if he’s no good (which I don’t believe to be the case), I’d be willing to bet 5 million dollars if I was the Cardinals that there is a thing or two the career saves leader to teach Perez, Motte and Co.

Also, don’t underestimate the value of a relief pitcher who doesn’t walk anyone.

by billymartin on Jan 9, 2009 12:52 PM EST reply actions  

But if he's giving

up the long ball, walks seem preferable.

by spants on Jan 9, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought chick's digged the long ball?

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Jan 9, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

i've have a t shirt that says that

so you know it’s the truth

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Jan 9, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

He is a flyball pitcher

In not a friendly fly ball park. He actually would play better in Busch stadium which reduces HR’s

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 9, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Numbers, or name?

While I realize that one name holds the saves record, I’ll go a step further and say that his name (and, by extension, his reputation) are the only reason Hoffman was signed as a closer this offseason. Similar to Troy Percival after his LaDunc resurrection. That’s Troy Percival, a tough-minded, grizzled veteran closer, lets sign him to close games. That’s Trevor Hoffman

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 9, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

in percival's case

i think the fact that he was a “tough-minded, grizzled veteran closer,” coming off 40 innings of 1.80 ERA, 8.10 K/9 and 0.85 WHIP performance, helped his case a bit.

I’m still mad that we didn’t offer percival arbitration, though.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

They did

We got a sandwich pick for him.

by Carps on Jan 9, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

We did

get a sandwich pick for him, which is all we would have gotten had we offered arbitration. I don’t believe we actually offered arbitration though, because he was signed away before the deadline to offer.

by Toddius on Jan 9, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

You’re mad they let him walk away.

by Carps on Jan 9, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Not me,

maybe Sleepy, I was just weighing in on the whole thing and saying it the way I remember it. I think there was an agreement in place with Percival not to offer him arb or something, but then we got a pick because he signed before the end of the period. I could be wrong.

by Toddius on Jan 9, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

nope

i was just wrong. I was mad they didn’t offer him arbitration because I thought he walked away and they didn’t get anything for him.

I see now that this was incorrect. I was also mad at the time that we let him walk but it turns out I was wrong about that, too.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I contributed to the Standing O

on his return with the Rays last year.

by liam on Jan 10, 2009 5:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm mad

that we won’t have any extra picks this year. Lynn looks like he could be a good pick…fast mover an all that.

by Toddius on Jan 9, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course I can't discount him being a name brand...

…but this guys wasn’t exactly Joe Borowski last season. He had a BAA of .169 in 2nd half last year including 1 HR in 17 innings pitched. He still struck out a batter an inning despite only have two pitches the blog poster could throw. His away splits were still good last year. He’s probably not as effective anymore throwing 80 innings, but that only strengthens his case as the bridge closer the Cardinals are looking for in my opinion.

Teams could do a lot worse at closer. His still a quality big league pitcher with a dominant pitch. He would have been an asset to our young bullpen. He would not have blocked young players long term. He would not have tied up payroll long term. To me it made a lot sense and I was a little surprised the Cardinals had zero interest.

by billymartin on Jan 9, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll make a crazy guess and say that Danupbaby’s change isn’t quite as good.

by ol Pete on Jan 9, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

the change is good

but he’s got a tick more fastball.

by DanUpBaby on Jan 9, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree...

Thought he shouldv’e picked the Dodgers for this very reason

by billymartin on Jan 9, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Right up Colletti's alley

I wonder how loudly Plaschke would have lauded such a move.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 9, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

can't Dave Duncan

teach Perez, Motte, and Co a few things and save the team $5 M as well?

by chuckb on Jan 9, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Corky Simpson

On a side note has anyone else seen all the uproar over this guy leaving Ricky Henderson off his Hall of Fame ballot?

Ricky Henderson was generally the best player I have ever seen play. When I think of ball player an image of Ricky Henderson pops into my head.

by BigJawnMize on Jan 9, 2009 12:58 PM EST reply actions  

And he probably did it

to spite Rickey for not giving him an interview in 1986 or some stupid shit like that, or he just wanted some attention and press for making an asinine decision.

I think that most sportswriters have much bigger ego’s than a lot of these ballplayers and act like they are the gateways to public perception. Just write about the game, guys, or you’re going to start becoming irrelevant very, very quickly.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 9, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Great piece on this very issue

I can’t remember if we discussed it here, but no player has ever been unanimously elected to Cooperstown by the writers. Not Ruth, Musial, Mays, Gibson, Aaron, Ozzie, no one. Joe Posnanski had a very good post on this toward the end of last year. Further evidence of how silly the Hall of Fame election process is, and, all of the postseason awards, for that matter.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jan 9, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe Pos

If he’s not the best sportswriter in the country, I don’t know who is.

by liam on Jan 9, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

and only joe can then turn around

and write 2000s words on Slankets.

I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9

by erik on Jan 9, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

That kinda depends...

I think that they are to most of us who look at the game objectively, namely the type of people who read a blog like this one and not the trolls who post over at stltoday that just get all emotional over everything.

As far as the general public is concerned though, look at sports talk radio. The whole reason it exists is to drum up controversy about various things related to the sports world. It’s all editorial/opinion and very rarely about spreading information in a positive way or helping the casual fan understand the game better. As long you have an opinion and like to talk about it, you can be on sports talk radio. It’s pot-stirring on a much grander scale. The same can be said about sportswriting.

Most of us objective people will come to a blog site like this one or another place where you can talk about ideas in a positive manner and argue opinions with other people of your ilk. According to sportswriters, now they have to give opinion based on information they glean from “sources” because you can’t get that on a blog site. So they write more and more opinion columns and fewer and fewer “news” columns because their readers can get the news from hundreds of places. The problem is that most of them don’t want to do the work that goes into formulating opinions that are noteworthy, or they feel that they have to dumb it down to the general public so they don’t get lost in the shuffle. It’s what sites like FireJoeMorgan were created around — lazy and condescending sports journalism.

It goes back to the whole Buzz Bissinger rant last year. He hates the fact that anyone can get published in an easily available format in this day and age because it takes readership away from him, money out of his pocket, and that those people who post can post nonsense because they don’t have to site sources. On the last point I agree, credible sources need to cited, preferably more than one, if you’re breaking any type of news (Deadspin wasn’t about aggregating news, they just enjoy poking fun, and there’s a place for that too) His other two points really don’t apply to him: He still is able to sell books, which are his main source of income, and he still has readership because he’s good at his craft.

Guys like Corky Simpson pull stunts like that so they can get their readership up, make a name for themselves, and they really don’t care that it’s irresponsible journalism, they’re just trying to make a buck (I would call this the Murdoch Effect, related to the effect that Rupert Murdoch has had on the industry, but that’s a 20 page treatise that I don’t want to get into). These are the type of people that shoot holes in Bissinger’s argument, guys like Bill Plaschke, Dan Shaughnessy, and Jay Mariotti, because they’re irresponsible and feel they are bigger than the topics they write about — the “You should believe this because I’m writing about it” theory of journalism. What I like about guys like Olney and Gammons, even though they have their biases, is that you feel like you’re getting credible information from them when they report something, and they both know that the game will be there long after they are gone and that they are lucky to be a part of it while they are here. They feel they’re part of the game, not above it.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 9, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

He should've had the stones...

To say why he didn’t vote for him instead of ignore him altogether as if he expected all writers to vote the same way.

by billymartin on Jan 9, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

he did

he’s “not a ricky guy”.

Seriously, that was his reason. He was going to vote for him next year, though.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll bet

it’s because Rickey has such a hard time referring to himself in the first person.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 9, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

It is really a shame...

…that players that contributed so much to the game cannot call themselves unanimous selections. I am not OK with this “Corky didn’t for for Ricky because Ricky referred to himself in the third person.” crap… Hank Arron? I mean fuckin’ come on. Babe Ruth. I guess it was an unfair advantage to play 40-50 puonds overwieght and drunk. This isn’t the hall of model citizens. It is the Hall of Fame for baseball people, if there is a more flawed group of men I can’t find them.

by BigJawnMize on Jan 9, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

More insane than not voting for Rickey?

He’s the greatest leadoff hitter and probably (in my estimation) one of the 10-15 best players ever to play the game.

He held 2 different major league records (SB’s and BB’s) when he retired, still holds one of those (that may never be broken either) Maddux doesn’t own any and hasn’t ever owned any.

I’m not saying that Maddux’s career wasn’t impressive, I’m simply saying that Maddux not getting in unanimously isn’t any more of a crime than Rickey not getting in unanimously.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 9, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't know....

People complain about McGwire, but Maddux and the other Atlanta pitchers always benefited from a larger strike zone than other pitchers.

Take that away (like in the playoffs) and he wasn’t nearly as impressive.

Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)

by DiscoJer on Jan 9, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting. Do you have any citations for their strike zone?

by astrostl on Jan 9, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Umm so

‘94/’95 he threw 411.2 innings with a 1.59 ERA good for a 267 ERA+. He threw 19 straight seasons of >199.2 innings. Can’t get more impressive than that, take away the supposed strike zone stuff and he goes from impossible to well…..still impossible. Maddux had a 3.27 ERA in 30 playoff starts, he’s still not nearly impressive?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 9, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Maddux largely got a big strike zone because he knew how to work it

Throw a pitch 3 inches outside, then throw a pitch 1.5 inches outside…and the umpire’s far more likely to give you that second call. Maddux only got the strike zone he got because he could put the ball exactly where he wanted to. Same with Glavine. Those guys were wizards with the corners.

by mojowo11 on Jan 10, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Pitchers have

ALWAYS gotten the edges of the strike zone. It’s only been in the last few years that this has changed.

by spants on Jan 10, 2009 1:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Its the strike calls on pitches outside the strike zone that are frustrating.

by ol Pete on Jan 10, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

But that's my point.

Until the new system, pitchers always got calls out of the zone. So, all HoF pitchers have benefited from this.

by spants on Jan 10, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope...

that he’s awesome for them. Converting all of his save attempts for a perfect 11/11!

by mynameistyler on Jan 9, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Hah, as long as

We always beat the Brewers and never have to face him. Then he can get 40 saves for all I care.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Jan 9, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Miles and the Small Bears

Off-topic, but too good not to pass along:

From National Lampoon Sports Minute (or so): “The Chicago Cubs have signed Aaron Miles to a two-year contract, which is perfect because last year they were miles away from a championship.”

ba-doom-ching

"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by Futility Infielder on Jan 9, 2009 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

btw

“…or develop weird Ben Sheets-specific injuries like shoulder rejection and scarlet tendons” is hilarious.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2009 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Redding about to sign with mets

according to MLBTR for 2.25 w/incentives to 2.5. Anyone think this might have been good for cards?

victim of the sixties

by victim of the sixties on Jan 9, 2009 3:34 PM EST reply actions  

redding=joel pineiro

They could just let Mitch Boggs pitch for 400K and save the $2.1M

I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9

by erik on Jan 9, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Corky's Rickey Henderson no-vote

Corky has acknowledged that he should have voted for Henderson. He said he hadn’t “properly researched” him, and if he could do it over he’d vote for him “if for no other reason than he played for nine ball teams.”

So by his own admission this guy doesn’t do even the most basic, minimal research that would be required to see that Henderson should be a HOFer, and when he does do research his decisions are based on how many teams someone played for?!? (In fairness, that nine teams comment appears to have been tongue in cheek; but still, WTF?) If this guy still has a vote next year, the BBWAA has got some splainin’ to do.

by BTown Birds fan on Jan 9, 2009 5:33 PM EST reply actions  

How can you be a baseball fan and not know Rickey's qualification?

and I guess I shouldn’t assume that all members of the BBWAA are baseball fans.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 9, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to offend all the Corkys of the world

but how much can you really expect who willingly goes by Corky?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jan 9, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I knew a horse named Corky once.

I think he and Corky Simpson probably have roughly the same qualifications to vote for HOFers.

by BTown Birds fan on Jan 9, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

this, right here,

tells you everything you need to know about Hall of Fame voters and MVP voters. This is ridiculous and the guy should lose his voting credentials immediately. He won’t, of course, but it’s guys like this who are the reason Mark McGwire’s going to have a battle (and Bonds, too) to get into the HOF.

by chuckb on Jan 9, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree somewhat

A lot of people who don’t want McGwire or Bonds (and Rose probably fits in here too) in the HOF have an informed, considered philosophy for why they feel that way. For the most part I disagree with them, but they have their reasons, and I think it’s fine for people who have different criteria for HOF-caliber players to have votes. In fact, it’s probably a very good thing.
But while our pal Corky may not vote for them – in fact, if I remember correctly he didn’t vote for McGwire this time – it won’t be because he has some coherent reason why. It’ll be because he gave it virtually no thought, and instead substituted some tired sports platitude for logic or consistency (or for that matter some minimal familiarity with the player’s career, apparently…).
But we can probably all agree that he has no business having a HOF vote. What a freaking tool.

by BTown Birds fan on Jan 9, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

A pretty good argument can be made that Bonds and McGwire should have a battle for admission into the Hall of Fame. Voters are instructed to consider integrity, sportsmanship and character, along with the player’s record. The stated requirements are broad and the characters aspects largely have been downplayed or ignored historically, but the character clause is there in black and white. It doesn’t take much Internet lawyering to argue that a player who took the 5th before Congress and another player currently under indictment for perjury (with both of them effectively accused of cheating, or at the very least skirting fair play) don’t meet those requirements.

Anyway I could see an argument maybe that Rickey’s personality rubbed Corky the wrong way. Unfortunately I haven’t seen that argument from Corky that Rickey’s personality was so egregiously negative as to overwhelm those on-the-field accomplishments. For somebody who has made a living as a writer, his communication skills leave something to be desired. It’s a sick joke that Corky has a BBWAA card and a Hall of Fame vote, while somebody like Matthew Leach doesn’t. The BBWAA needs to clean its house.

by greenback06 on Jan 9, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Ty Cobb

…ran into the stands and beat up a handless man b/c the man called him half of a you-know-what. He said he would have done it even if the man had no feet. He nearly pistol whipped a black elevator operator to death because he was “insolent.” He may have killed a guy and may have thrown games…neither of which have been proven in a legal sense (but neither has McGwire/Bonds steroid use). But horrors…McGwire and Bonds may have used PED’s just like everyone else in baseball was at the time.

If they’re supposed to consider integrity and character and they’re going to rule out McGwire, a man who seems to be one of the most kind and decent men in recent baseball history, then Ty Cobb HAS to go. Period. I don’t see how using drugs to get an edge when everyone around you is doing so and getting away with it is worse than being a brutal, sadistic racist. If you wanna toss both out, sure…but to say with a straight face that integrity and character are important while allowing Ty Cobb to be in the HOF is utterly repulsive to me.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 9, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

for clarification then...
but the character clause is there in black and white.

So, where were those rules when Gaylord Perry, a cheater by his own admission, got into the Hall Of Fame. Ty Cobb is in the Hall of Fame despite being the biggest prick in recorded sports history, beating up fans, and being accused of killing someone. How about all of the guys who took amphetamines over the years to get through day-night doubleheaders and back to back night/day games? I’m sure there are a few HOF players from that era that had that kind of help. I know you said that it’s been downplayed and ignored, and it should stay that way to certain extent. Here’s the thing for me: McGwire has never been proven to use steroids, and you can cast a reasonable doubt as to whether he ever took steroids. I think that you have to wait for Bonds’ federal trial before you can say one way or the other — if he’s found guilty of perjury, then you have to assume that he knew that he was taking steroids. I still think he’s a Hall of Fame player based on his accomplishments prior to 2001.

Anyway I could see an argument maybe that Rickey’s personality rubbed Corky the wrong way.

I still fail to see how that makes any difference at all. When complete bastards like Ty Cobb are in, I think you could burn down an orphanage and still have a shot. Obviously nobody could charge into the stands and beat that shit out of fans in this day and age and keep his job (NBA players excluded), but I don’t see how anyone could look objectively and Rickey Henderson and say that his personality traits in any way would disqualify his on field traits. From what I’ve heard from teammates of his, he was a very good teammate and a likable guy, it’s just that very few people could understand what he was talking about half the time.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 9, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

just checking

any news on how cordero’s throws went this week? did cards attend?

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Jan 10, 2009 12:21 AM EST reply actions  

I have figured out the Red Sox strategy!

After seeing that they have now signed Penny and Kotsay… on top of the already obvious Smoltz signing, and being involved heavily on Teixeira.

The strategy the Boston Red Sox are employing is to sign ever player in Major League Baseball, thus rendering their competition undermanned and unable to compete. They are going to sign every player that has ever touched a baseball.

by mynameistyler on Jan 10, 2009 4:44 AM EST reply actions  

I used that stategy on MLB 2K7

It was pretty successful when you signed all the big names or everyone at a position and then traded them for young talent becuase you have the market cornered

by bearcatcardfan on Jan 10, 2009 4:57 AM EST up reply actions  

They just signed Saito too

So apparently the market they are trying to corner is the “guys who had arm injuries last year” market.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 10, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

The beauty of it, at least for the Red Sox,

is that they don’t NEED any one of these guys. Most other teams get their depth from their farm system-hope and pray that whoever they bring up is ready to perform right away. The Sox can mix and match from these injury guys, use them as the depth, and buy some time for their youngsters if they aren’t ready. They have the funds, they don’t block anybody long term, and they don’t have to trade any players they’d rather keep.

 

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jan 10, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

649494__1__small
The Hall of WAR: Part 1
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Second Base

Recent FanPosts

Nyc_small
Cardinals Offense vs. Reds Offense - 2012
Nyc_small
Cardinals Rotation vs. Reds Rotation - 2012
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Center Fielders
649494__1__small
Hall of WAR: Part 2
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Corner Outfielders
Stl_gay_small
2011 League Minimum All Star Team
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Short Stops
111747-400-0-2_small
VolsnCards5's Five Storylines to Watch This Minor League Season
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Third Base

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Jack_benny__1__small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bendermad_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

1989_bgh_cropped_small bgh

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols