Who would you like to see open 2009 at 2B???

by Czechguardsman on Jan 8, 2009 3:38 AM EST Comment 63 comments

While we are waiting for the big FA bargains of 2009 to develop and for the FO to deal an outfielder and/or Kennedy, I thought I'd probe your minds and see how you are feeling about the future of the 2B position for the Cardinals.

Lets give MO some credit for not jumping the gun on Free Agents like the Giants did and give all that money to Edgar Renteria and Jeremy Affeldt. I know all of this inactivity over the last month is frustrating but there will be plenty of FA bargains in March. I can't ever remember seeing this many good, unsigned FAs this late into the offseason. At the very least, I'm sure someone like Jon Garland or Braden Looper will be forced to take a "Loshe-type deal."

At least Jocketty is no longer the GM, if he was still here, our starting OFs would probably be Corey Patterson, Willy Taveras, and Michael Bourn. Just a guess.

Poll

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Comments

To me “realistically” says Kennedy, we just have too many issues to deal with

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 8, 2009 8:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I didn't understand how the question matched up with the options

So, I just ignored it and voted for the guy I wanted to vote for.

The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.

by Tackle Box on Jan 8, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ty Greene?

Anxious to see how he hits in ST. Going to be some interesting competitions.

by paposse on Jan 8, 2009 8:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Brendan Ryan was my choice

If he can play like he did in ‘07, and not last season, I’d have no problem with it. Most of us think Khalil will be able to bounce back and have a decent season, so I see little reason as to why Ryan couldn’t have a comeback either.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Jan 8, 2009 9:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

jose lopez can hit

and hit and hit and hit….seattle won’t be trading him though…think he is just now arbitration eligible

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 8, 2009 10:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Brett Wallace

I know… it won’t happen…

A platoon with Kennedy would be great though…

www.salukihoops.com

by salukihoops on Jan 8, 2009 10:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

there are questions about whether the dude can stick at 3b

much less 2b

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jan 8, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I personally want to see Dan uggla, but that is near impossible.

by Taskmaster on Jan 8, 2009 11:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Put me down for ...

A Kennedy/Grudk platoon, assuming Grudk would rather do that than just retire.

by mikedallas45 on Jan 8, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oh Placido...

Someone tell me we had a good reason to trade him back in the day. Was that the Rolen trade?

by BustaCard on Jan 8, 2009 12:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

Polanco, Bud Smith, and Timlin

by etp_stl on Jan 8, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hard to bang that trade, but Polanco sure is a solid second baseman.

by BustaCard on Jan 8, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

With a HUGE head.

Seriously, wtf is up with the size of his mellon? He’s like Griffey Jr. in the old Simpson’s softball episode.

by Ray Lankford on Jan 8, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Clearly a forceps baby, too.

by etp_stl on Jan 8, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hey

I have a big head!

4B - beer baseball bands blog

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 8, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Ellis

Just on defense he is worth 2 wins and before last year he was above average offensively. He is cheap, recently signing a 2 year 11 mil extension, and coming off a down year we might be able to steal him away from Billy Beane. Billy would want a lot but Ellis is a great impact player. Last year was flukishly bad offensively, but he still managed a a 3 WAR season. If he is able to regress to 07 form, with 19 homers and a .339 wOBA, he would be worth over 4 WAR.

Billy is smart and he knows this, but he is also willing to trade anyone for the right deal. The A’s are a team that is very weak in 3B and the OF. They would also be the one team that would take Kennedy because the A’s value defense so much. Kennedy+Freese/Craig and Mather/Ankiel for Ellis. That would not only give us great second baseman going into the next 2 years, but it would help clear up the OF and 3B situations. We would have to pay all of Ellis’s contract and about half of Kennedy’s, but we would still have about 6 mil to spend on a starter. With the way the market is going we could probably get a Garland/Looper/Perez/Wolf/Bird-type pitcher for that on a 1 year deal.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 8, 2009 12:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why would they take Kennedy again?

Ellis get’s paid exactly $1M more, is about the same defensively, and swings a better stick.

Beane wouldn’t want Ankiel, so that’s out. He already has two outfielders at the corners that are as good or better than Joe Mather, so I’m not sure why he’d want him. Freese or Craig may not be able to help the A’s next season, and they aren’t as good as the options that Beane already has at 3B that aren’t named Eric Chavez.

As stingy as Beane is, I don’t see this trade going down without us giving up way too much, including one of Perez or Motte, who I’m just not comfortable dealing at this time.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 9, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure why

but I voted for Allen Craig. can he even play 2B?

4B - beer baseball bands blog

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 8, 2009 1:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

oh btw

czechguardsman doesn’t live in Prague does he? if he does, then I might know him…

4B - beer baseball bands blog

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 8, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

When did you start 4B?

I just noticed it.

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Jan 8, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

fairly recently

4B - beer baseball bands blog

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 9, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, now I live in STL

Allen Craig might be able to play 2B, but his defense would probably be weak.

I forgot a couple names:

David Eckstein
RAy Durham

by Czechguardsman on Jan 8, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd take a flyer on Durham

if he were available for 1-2 years for Kennedy money.

by BustaCard on Jan 8, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We could probably get him for 1 year 2 million

nobody else seems to want him, alhtough he is still a very good offensive second baseman

by vivaelpujols on Jan 8, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I chose Ty Wigginton

His glove would be my biggest question, but he play a few different positions and he could probably add 20 HRs and 75 RBI to the lineup. Does anyone know a little more about his defense? I can’t imagine him being all that expensive either. I think he would fit in pretty well with this team.

by The Gottfather on Jan 8, 2009 2:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I say...

we ship Glaus to the Angels along with Bryan Anderson, Chris Duncan (not because he has value, but because he is a ? that could entice the Angels + they may need a mlb proven 1B this year + removes 1 more OF from the St. Louis equation), and Jess Todd for Figgins and Kendrick. Figgins is the leadoff hitter we need and Kendrick has the ability to win a batting title if he remains healthy. This would free up some money because Glaus (11.25M) – Figgins (est 6.5M) – Kendrick (est. 1.5M) = est. 3.25M+ extra that could be spent on on another middle reliever or towards a contract for Lowe or Sheets. The Angels could use another big bat to provide protection for Vlad and I’m sure Glaus would waive his NTC to go to another contender.

by Jumsy on Jan 8, 2009 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That is WAY, WAY, WAY to much to give up for those 2 guys

Glaus was a 5 WAR player last year. Bryan Anderson is a high average, lefty hitting catcher who is 21 years old and will be in AAA next year. Chris Duncan only has value to us so there is not point in just dumping him in a trade. Jess Todd is a very solid, young starting pitching prospect who will make an impact this year for our club.

Howie Kendrick is a good hitter, but little power, NEVER walks and only plays average defense. His .306 batting average was powered by a ridiculous .362 BABIP. Even with those flashy numbers he was only a 1.3 WAR player, less than AK, Miles and Izturis last year. Figgins isn’t that good. The only appeal is that he is fast and he can play a lot of positions. With his .319 wOBA last year, he certainly shouldn’t play everyday.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 8, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I might like to make a trade with the Angels to bring in Kendrick and Scott Shields

Shields could compete with Perez and Motte for the closer role, and Kendrick could start at 2B. Ankiel, Freese, and Kennedy would probably do the trick.

by Czechguardsman on Jan 8, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see how that would get it done.

The Angels already have a overflowing outfield, they have no room for Ank without trading one of those first. They have no need for Freese, and they have a player in Wood who is probably a better prospect than Freese, I don’t see any way they would trade Kendrick and Shields (especially Shields) for 3 players they have no need for.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 8, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They need a first baseman

But Dunc would’nt get us what we needed.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 8, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot about Brandon Wood, but I think that they could still use an OF/1B

Juan Rivera seems like a possiblity to move to 1B and then Ankiel could be their RF or LF.

I guess the Angels wouldn’t want to block Brandon Wood with another 3B prospect; Wood will probably (finally) break out this year.

Since the Angels are apparently not interested in Ramirez or Dunn, it seems like they would be a good candidate to trade for an STL outfielder. We would probably have to send a pitching prospect or 2 the Angels’ way.

I kind of like the idea of having Scot Shields compete for the Closer role and getting a 2B who is controlled for the next four years.

by Czechguardsman on Jan 8, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So you are saying...

that in 2-3 years when Todd is a middle of the rotation guy (at best) and Anderson, a prospect who is blocked by Molina, isn’t worth a 2b who hits .300+ and a 3B who hits .300 and steals 35+ bases? Glaus kind of puts it over the top, but then again, his 11.25M contract is kind of big too. If Figgins or kendrick gets hurt, we still have freese who can play 3B and move figgins to 2B, or Freese and Kennedy worst case scenario. i like the deal for flexibility in the field and payroll. Adding Khalil Greene should help the power in the lineup enough to offset losing Glaus. I would rather have people on base ahead of Albert instead of worrying about how 5-9 produce (assuming Ludwick hits 4th), but that’s just my opinion.

by Jumsy on Jan 8, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

It looks like a pretty good trade off. I checked Figgin’s stats and he is really good. High OBP and excellent speed and he is a really good defender at 3rd base. I don’t like the idea of trading Glaus but, your right, we do have enough power to sustain his loss. I think that Kendrick is overrated, but he is better than our other options at second and he will be cheap for a couple more years.

Trading Anderson doesn’t make sense right now though. First of all the Angels already have an excellent catching in Napoli, who would have led the AL in slugging % if he had enough PA. Second, Anderson is only 21 and he hasn’t shown any other particular skills besides a high batting average and a decent eye. If we trade Anderson now we would be selling low on him. Give him another year in AAA with some at bats in the majors mixed in and if he improves his power and defense than he would have a lot of trade value.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 8, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy is fine.

Let’s spend out money on a pitcher.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Jan 8, 2009 4:17 PM EST reply actions 5 recs

+1

by vivaelpujols on Jan 8, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Jan 8, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

And trading Glaus gives us more money to spend on such pitcher…

by Jumsy on Jan 8, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no-trade clause I think

4B - beer baseball bands blog

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 10, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You think right

He has a NTC so it probably wouldn’t work

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Jan 10, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would think there are certain teams

he would accept a trade to. It isn’t like he hasn’t waived it before. I would think he would accept going to a team that is going to contend, as long as it doesn’t have turf. So that more or less rules out MN and …do any other teams have turf? Tampa Bay might, but I doubt they would be interested.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 10, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure he would

but it would just make things more challenging.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Jan 11, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Barden?

Does anyone else think Barden doesn’t get enough attention in the 2B discussion? I know that’s not his primary position, and his offensive stats certainly aren’t overwhelming, but I think he should maybe get more attention than he does. I’m not arguing that he’s the answer, cause I don’t think he is. But, I think he’s worth a shot and might be able to give better production than Kennedy over the last two years. Then again, that’s not saying much. I just find myself wondering why he’s not at least discussed more than he is, particularly as a super-sub type (As an aside, it’s entirely possible that I have just missed that discussion).

by bw133 on Jan 8, 2009 6:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

yes, he gets bizarrely omitted from discussions about not only a starting role

but for the utility role which, if you buy the spin from the front office, is all he’s good for.

I see him as a guy with good defense and a reasonable hitter — a dash of power and decent obp. I don’t see why no one at the p-d will acknowledge him as more than an afterthought.

by tom s. on Jan 9, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Schumaker wasn't even included in this at all?

I wouldn’t want him there but there’s been a lot of talk about him playing there. If Kennedy can hit .270 + and play his normal defense, I’m fine with him there. If I had to pick from outside of the organization I would pick Uggla or Kinsler.

by waino on Jan 8, 2009 9:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I thought they tried to convert Schumaker to 2B in either 2007 or 2008 ST and

the idea bombed and they decided to keep him in the outfield. Its too bad he can’t/isn’t playing 2nd; his offensive stats would translate better for that position. Apparently Schumaker couldn’t handle 2B.

by Czechguardsman on Jan 8, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hoffpauir

I just want to see how his bat translates to everyday play in the bigs. Obviously much better choices on that list, but the question isn’t who I think is best, it’s who I’d like to see. If the rumors are true that Larussa doesn’t like his glove, then I think the Cards need to trade him somewhere he will get a look. Maybe to Florida with Freeser and Ottavino for Dan Uggla. Then again, if Larussa doesn’t like Hoffpauir’s glove, then I guess Uggla is definately out of the question.

by StickRat on Jan 9, 2009 9:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I seriously doubt

That Hoff, Freese, and Ottavino would get us Uggla. I’d do that in a heartbeat, which is why it probably isn’t a fair trade.

I do think that both he and Barden deserve a shot as well as Ryan at a utility role in ST though.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Jan 9, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That

“I do think that both he and Barden deserve a shot as well as Ryan at a utility role in ST though.”

Was a terrible sentence. I apologize.

The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.

by thegodfather on Jan 9, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I realized that was an unbalanced trade after I posted. But I was just kinda spitballing. Although, I do think Freese could end up being equivilant to Uggla with the bat, and with better defense. I’ve always been higher on Freese than most.

by StickRat on Jan 9, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it cool

4B - beer baseball bands blog

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 9, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I voted other.

I was thinking of a young Joe Morgan with a gag in his mouth.

by easy on Jan 9, 2009 5:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I went for Brian Roberts

but what I really want is the clone of Rogers Hornsby. Can we get the Wash U. Genetics Lab working on that?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 9, 2009 7:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I watched kinsler at mizzou...

and have had him on my fantasy team 2 years running, he has been the best steal of the draft every time, mock drafts have him going in the top few rounds next year and deservingly so, his combination of speed and power at a position like 2B is so valuable. Unfortunately players like him and chase utley are so rare, I see us having the adam kennedy/ brian barden types around for quite some time.

Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?

by ForesterShane on Jan 10, 2009 3:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

In the interest of full disclosure I am also a Mizzou guy, but I’d take Kinsler over any 2nd baseman out there not named Utley (and yes, that includes Pedroia). If he played on a coast, they’d be re-naming the MVP award “The Kinsler” and putting up a statue of the dude. He does it all.

Beyond that, Brian Roberts would look good in the leadoff spot, I’d still like to see them pursue something with the Braves for one of their middle infielders, mainly because trading Ankiel for a mid-to-bottom of the rotation pitcher just dosen’t excite me as much as Escobar or Johnson. But if they decide to give Kennedy one last chance, and then use the spot for open auditions for our young guys, I’d be fine with that (as long as they buck up for Lowe or Sheets).

I’d really like them to get Uggla, and just give Kennedy an Uggla jersey and send him out in the field every inning until someone catches on.

What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray

by Tupelo on Jan 11, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What about Young?

Here’s a thought: MLBTR is reporting that Michael Young has demanded a trade because they want him to move to 3B. He’s open to playing 2B. Wonder what his bat might look like in our lineup. Mo seems to do well with GMs who are desperate to make a move. Sure, it’s dreaming, but could we add Young without giving up Rasmus?

by For the Red Birds on Jan 12, 2009 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Age: 32
Career wOBA: .343
Career 2B UZR/150: -3.3
Career SS UZR/150: -12.0

I would personally refuse his 5/62M contract if it required nothing in trade.

by astrostl on Jan 12, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

The Rangers have a need at 3B and closer.

I would perhaps offer Freese, Chris Perez, and Kyle McClellan for Chris Young and C.J. Wilson

by Czechguardsman on Jan 12, 2009 11:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yikes...

That’s our entire bullpen, there’s no way i would accept that trade. If you left out Perez, i would consider it, but Perez is our best prospect in an area where we are lacking.

by Taskmaster on Jan 12, 2009 6:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Use the 'reply' button please....

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Jan 12, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody but Kennedy

Kennedy is a decent defensive 2B, but his offense is a major liability. He reminds me of Juan Encarnacion – never hits well when it matters but hits well when it doesn’t matter.

I don’t know why the Cards aren’t giving Brendan Ryan a shot. He started hitting great last year, and fell into a late-season slump. With Kennedy, all you’re going to get is whiff after whiff. I’m hoping the Cards have something up their sleeves that we don’t know about, because having Kennedy as our starter will not be good – and all Cards fans know it.

by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 25, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs