Am I the only person here who DOESN'T want Ben Sheets?
by Donut King on Jan 31, 2009 10:49 AM EST
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PrintColor me pessimistic. Color me a non-believer. Color me anything. But color me happy that the Cardinals aren't really going hard after Ben Sheets.
I'm not sure how it started (I guess I came along too late . . . I'm a lifelong Cards fan but didn't join VEB until December '08).
But it's gotten funnier and funnier (and at the same time, a little more stupid).
My favorite part of this "obsession" came earlier this week, when the famous (infamous?) Ballpark Village photo popped up everywhere. It didn't take long for it to digress into a Ben Sheets lovefest. So yes, a simply BRILLIANT message "written" at Ballpark Village was turned into a ploy to bring over a pitcher with unquestioned talent but a history of arm and shoulder injuries. Oh yeah, and his average annual salary will probably be greater than Kyle Lohse's. Geez, haven't we been through this one before? Who says Olympic Gold is worth an extra $2MM annually?
Moving on . . . . It's my belief that you'll all be laughing at this obsession when Sheets signs with the Rangers (his only major suitor at this point) . . . and immediately announces that he won't be ready for Opening Day due to an "unspecified right arm injury". Yeah, I've seen this movie before - it's fun to watch from a distance.
Oh. We're not getting Manny either. Thank God. Let's let the Dodgers keep that Level Seven Headcase, no matter his production value.
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Sheets
The market for Sheet seems to be 2 years at 8-12 million per. Even if Sheets was only pitches 150 innings, he’s worth that amount. People are behind the deal because it will likely only be for 2 years.
The Cardinals right now seem to be a 84-87 wine team depending how things play out. Signing Looper, Wolf, etc only gives us another 1.5 wins, not greatly increasing our chances to make the playoffs. Signing Sheets have the potential to add 4 wins, which makes us a playoff contender. Signing a league average starter is an “empty” signing so to speak.
You do run the risk of Sheets being hurt and ineffective. But the potential is great. For a 2 year contract, I feel as if its worth the rsik.
Even the group of FA "league average" starters is starting to look thin.... Hello Clayton Mortenson
by Czechguardsman on Jan 31, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Mulder . . .
had the potential to add four or more wins per season he pitched for us. That worked out pretty well, now didn’t it?
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
Mulder's numbers and peris were going in the wrong direction even before he came to STL...
I was against that deal when it happened.
by Czechguardsman on Jan 31, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
I actually did a double take when I read that.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
not the only one
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
That's an unfair comparison
The cost to get Mark Mulder was Danny Haren, Kiko Calero and Daric Barton: An MLB top prospect pitcher, an effective right-handed reliever making league minimum and an above average prospect
Ben Sheets would cost us a 1st round pick. That’s it. I don’t mean to minimize the value of a first round pick, but Ben Sheets is worth a 1st round pick.
And a Ben Sheets signing would pose a much better risk/reward situation than signing a league average pitcher.
I'll re-evaluate this . . .
when he signs with Texas . . . and we see what happens down there.
I have a gut feeling about Sheets that I’m not sure some of you folks have about him. Maybe it’s more than a gut feeling. I’m just not that convinced that he’ll be much more than a “rehab project” in a couple of years.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
It might be a gut feeling
but it can be considered an educated guess based on his history.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
Oh, that gut feeling as actually a completely justifiable and very realistic fear.
Its a toss up over who is more likely to be a bust… Sheets or Burnett.
by Czechguardsman on Feb 1, 2009 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
Has any pitcher not named Nolan Ryan been successful in Texas?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
The whole state or just the Rangers?
Because I can name a whole bunch of Astros.
As for the Rangers . . . we might get by with a hand-count by Mordecai Brown.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
Yes, I obviously meant the Rangers.
Ranger stadium has been where pitchers’ careers go to die.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
agreed! bad comparison with Mulder...
The upside for Sheets is a World Series Title, the downside is 3rd of 4th in the central this season with hopes for 2010, when he is healthy. Without him or someone like him via trade we are posed to finish out of the playoffs again and for us real Cardinal fans that just isn’t good enough.
by sheets in cardinal red on Feb 3, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
i was against it for the longest
but then i realized that if we sign him, it will be for cheap otherwise it just wont happen. a risk im now willing to take
Well since you don't want Sheets
who do you want? Who else is out there that could be a potential season changing player for us? Are you happy with our offseason thus far? Do you see us making anymore acquisitions? I am genuinely curious, since you are so much against a Sheets signing, I would just like to know what your alternative idea(s) would be…
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
At this point . . .
I’m willing to ride the storm with the troops we have. I totally wish no one in the Cards front office had said anything publicly at the beginning of the offseason about being “aggressive” this winter, because I was looking for some kids to get some chances. Well, guess what? Looks like that might happen. So let’s do it.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
Fair enough
I just wanted to know your position on this off-season.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 31, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
I think he is playing Devils advocate? Or he is just....
FLAT WRONG! Sign Ben Sheets and compete in 2009 and 2010! What are our other options, looper and wolf? Not good enough to compete with the cubs with that.
by sheets in cardinal red on Feb 3, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
i'm really nervous about it...
… but if the med reports are at least somewhat okay, you’ve got to sign him for 2/$16 + incentives.
i still wish they’d signed Randy Johnson, tho.
100% agreed - so sick of it.
Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets Ben Sheets
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Jan 31, 2009 1:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Is this like one of those pictures where if you look hard enough you can see a sailboat?
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 5, 2009 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Or a schooner...
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
BEN SHEETS
sign him, even if he gets hurt, we have replacements for him
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 31, 2009 1:30 PM EST reply actions
i would be in the don't sign him camp
he is coming at a bargain even for this offseason, he wants at least a two year deal (not an incentive deal mind you), and not one team in the major’s is seriously vying for his services. even the rangers were scared off by the “new and improved” medical report. i hear the argument that “even if he gets us ‘insert arbitrary number here’ innings he will still be worth it” and the problem with that is i’m sure GM’s have the same opinion and yet still nobody is signing him.
i’ve had enough of watching pitchers go through rehab on our payroll. let somebody else pay for the bill and then we can sign him later. how many pitchers have we paid to get healthy on our payroll the last few years?
he costs us number 19 and saying that we will get a comparable pick in two years is a bit optimistic in my opinion.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
the other side of the coin
is wouldn’t the law of averages work in our favor here? can every pitcher we sign be hurt and not pitch at all? the warning signs are there however…
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 31, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
are you happy with our current rotation then?
Just curious to see if you think the Cards are a playoff team as is? If not what would you do? We are all begging for Sheets because he gives us hope to compete in a tough NL Central. I’ll give you this if Lowe, Burnett, Perez and some other impact guys were still out there then the Sheets talk wouldn’t be as great. But in my opinion Sheets is the best of the players I mentioned and he is available!!! Cards fans need a reason to get excited and Sheets is our guy!
by sheets in cardinal red on Feb 3, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
So, let me paraphrase your position:
“Everyone is obsessed with Ben Sheets, and I think it’s crazy. He will probably get hurt at the beginning of the season.”
Did I get it right?
I’m not trying to be a jerk but maybe next time the post should have some more insight as to why we shouldn’t sign him other than the usual “he gets hurt a lot.” We all know he has an injury history, so you aren’t offering any new information. Perhaps you could offer an alternative to signing Ben Sheets and explain the merits of said alternative. As it is, your post would probably work better as a comment in one of the many threads that have Ben Sheets discussions going on.
If I’m wrong and this is an appropriate fanpost, somebody please tell me.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
agreed
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Jan 31, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
well, right
it’s not like we’re just running around screaming “sign Ben Sheets” without thinking twice. If Donut King was to look back at the petition, hot stove threas, and “the wisdom of Sheets” he’d see that we’ve considered all of these negatives and actually have reasoning behind our wanting him.
On with the (good) youth movement!
BEN SHEETS!
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 31, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
uh, yeah,,sure,,that's exactly what i've done. put a lot of thought into my posts,,,,,,,
BEN MOTHERHUSTYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Ben motherhustyourmouth sheets....
is freakin hilarious!!! God I hope we land him in St. Louis!
by sheets in cardinal red on Feb 3, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Everyday
he goes w/o signing, the cheaper he could be getting. Meaning a possible increase in the interest of the FO. Yeah, that’s a small glimmer of hope, but I’m gonna hang onto it as long as it lasts.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Feb 3, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Alternative:
Actually, I’m paraphrasing a previous reply I made here.
Go with the kids. If we truly DO have the 8th best farm system in the majors, at what point do we say we can’t dip into that supposed depth to see what we have?
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
because that farm depth
isn’t loaded with pitchers with great potential close to the majors
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Probably should have said . . .
Kyle McClellan, who obviously wasn’t in AAA last year.
Meh.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
The same KMac
who hit a complete wall at 50 innings pitched last year out of the bullpen, has his own history of arm injuries, and hasn’t started over a half season since 2004? How is that NOT riskier than Sheets, without the potential upside of having a #1 starter on the team?
I also don’t need to point out the potential issues with a pitcher throwing more than 100 innings more than the did the previous season, which has been shown to potentially cause arm injuries.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I had the same concerns with Looper in '07.
It didn’t turn out spectacularly, but it could’ve been a helluva lot worse.
Not every situation is exactly the same, but it’s better to have some kind of track record (even if it’s only one example) than to have no basis at all.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
I'm not sure what you just said
Not every situation is exactly the same, but it’s better to have some kind of track record (even if it’s only one example) than to have no basis at all.
What does that even mean? You sound like a horoscope…
How is moving McClellan, who hasn’t pitched more than 100 innings since 2004, prior to his arm injury, into the starting rotation any riskier than signing Ben Sheets, who’s averaged 150 innings a year for the past 4 seasons? I’m just looking for an explanation of how it’s less risky. True, Sheets is going to be more expensive, but he’s also a Grade A #1 starter when he’s healthy, and those guys don’t grow on trees.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Feb 2, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if you look at what we have
we have a #1 who’s a ? — carp
solid #2 in waino
we have no real #3 – i guess you could try to call lohse a #3 if you think he’ll continue to improve
lohse is more a #4
welly is a solid #5, and pineiro is almost replacement level
there’s a big hole at the top and we just don’t have a healthy #1 or #3 prospect – jaime garcia just went on the dl and he could be a #3. i dont see how we fill that hole w/o sheets or a trade. if carp misses substantial time we have waino and a bunch of #4/#5 pitchers. i have no problem trying our prospects out, but i don’t see them filling that hole.
I look at . . .
Waino as a #1.
Carp is #2 if healthy. If not, he’s another sunk cost. That’s just how good Waino is, in my opinion.
Pineiro is not as bad as people think. He had an awful start to ‘08. The injury didn’t help him in that respect. He’s a #4 at best, but having bottom-of-the-rotation help is important to any team.
Lohse proved to me last year that he CAN lead a staff when everything falls apart. From May to July, was there ANY pitcher you wanted out there OTHER than Kyle Lohse? In my mind, that man didn’t exist. He’s a #4 at his least, #2 at his best. And he hasn’t had any major injuries in the last several years (KNOCK ON WOOD!)
And we keep forgetting about our Vegas Babyface (Thompson), who – if given the chance (God willing) – could help the rotation immensely, in my opinion.
I think we’re good without Sheets and any injury concern that could surround him. So I say we do it that way, and see what happens.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
this is my candidate for best post of the year
please read this. the second chart along shows how our starters fit into a conventional rotation rank.
and frankly statements like
Lohse proved to me last year that he CAN lead a staff when everything falls apart. From May to July, was there ANY pitcher you wanted out there OTHER than Kyle Lohse?
really make me question your post.
it’s called a streak. the notion that lohse’s entire history should be discarded because he pitched well for a few months just ignores reality. if your gut tells you pineiro can be a #4, then your guts been watching some other dude, and certainly reading some other dude’s stats. pineiro was less than one win above a replacement pitcher in 2008 and hasn’t been worth one win above replacement since 2005..
and there’s nothing about thompson’s performance in the last two years that suggests he’s more than a stopgap. i brad thompson is the paradigm for a replacement level pitcher and has never been worth even one win above replacement in his short career.
f you think ben sheets doesn’t help this club and brad thompson is some secret pitching weapon, i think i probably won’t agree on much with you.
Sorry to hear that.
My apologies Tom, but I don’t really break down numbers. Us public-educated fools don’t really put much into math, and I’ve never been good at math (and never will be).
So while the Bill James’s of the world can rejoice in feeling that their numbers are superior to others, I look at a television screen or from a seat in the ballpark and find out what I want to know about a player. This goes for every sport that I watch.
In addition, those numbers go to complete crap when a guy goes down. And that goes for anyone in any starting staff.
But since we have who we have, adding another injury concern just adds more doubt that I’d rather not deal with.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
sure, why would we take the chance of getting a pitcher who might get injured
and leave us with only a replacement level pitcher, when we could take nobody and be sure we would be left with one?
opportunity lost.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I am a public-educated fool too
I put a lot into the math. Why can’t we do both?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Ehhh . . .
I probably should’ve just said that I’m not good at math. Instead, I went for the Daily Double.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
To each his own
I am no mathematician either, but I do find this stuff fascinating.
I am not meaning to single you out here, I just guess I get upset at the “Bill James’s of the world can rejoice in feeling that their numbers are superior to others, I look at a television screen or from a seat in the ballpark and find out what I want to know about a player.” kind of statements. They happen far too often around here, and I just don’t get it. I am pretty sure most of us that like the more saber-ish type of stuff also love watching the game. But I have been down that road once too often.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
So you're revelling in ignorance and that means your analysis has any substance why?
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Feb 1, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My analysis has as much substance as anyone else's.
Which basically means . . . take it for what it’s worth. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
Uh
My analysis has as much substance as anyone else’s.
because
I look at a television screen or from a seat in the ballpark and find out what I want to know about a player.
when
I don’t really break down numbers.
I completely disagree. Your argument is based on what you’ve seen. Others’ arguments are based not only on what they’ve seen, but years worth of data. I have to say that your argument has much less substance than anyone else’s. That doesn’t mean you’re wrong, obviously the issue is debatable, but it’s unrealistic to think you’ll sway anyone with an opinion based solely on what you’ve seen. Your opinion is worth as much as any of ours, but your analysis is not.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
there's absolutely nothing wrong with watching baseball and liking
what you like and ignoring stat.
the question is then why you would post to this forum.if your analysis of baseball is i like who i like, then there’s nothing to discuss.in your system, it’s just as valid to say that kevin millar is the greatest 1b in baseball, as it is to say pujols is. it’s like discussing ’who’s hotter, scarlett johansen or charlize theron?’ there’s no value in it.
i originally thought your post was an honest inquiry into why we like ben sheets. re-reading it i realize you never intended to try to understand why people likee ben sheets. your post was really just written to say ‘liking ben sheets is stupid. i have no interest in discussion. i just thought you should know you’re stupid.’
thanks.
by tom s. on Feb 1, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Charlize Theron.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
You can't really go wrong with either
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Feb 1, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Which I think is tom s.'s whole point :-)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
liking scarlett is stupid.
you’d know that if you got your nose out of your spreadsheets and actually watched the movies.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I'm gonna have to go with Scarlet
but tough choice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 2, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
do i really have to chose either one?
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
To be honest
I wish I did have to choose.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
i'm just saying, there's better options out there
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
well, yeah
neither are cardinal fans (that I know of)
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 2, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Well you can have
the better options out there. I’ll settle for Charlize.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Feb 2, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Very difficult decision
I think I’m going with Charlize though…although I could be talked into Naomi Watts over both…my wife is in the room now so I’m closing the lap top screeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnn….NOW!
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 2, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm F'n Ben Affleck
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
with your logic you are satisfied with just being careful and
not making the playoffs. The rest of us are not cool with that. Sign Ben Sheets or trade some of your outfield depth (to whom since outfield depth is way too saturated this year) to sure up our rotation and make us a playoff contender!
by sheets in cardinal red on Feb 3, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
most of that is
decent bench players, relievers and 5th starters/swingmen
we just dont have that great of pithing prospects. Certainly no one who seems likely to bring what Sheets could to the table.
Just because you have a good farm system doesnt mean that its good in all areas or that its full of impact players.
Most of the top 10 in any good farm team still arnt as good as sheets.
You usually have 1-3 very good prospects and a lot of solid or filler guys.
Id love to see the kids play too, I cant wait for Wallace and Rasmus, and i Hope Perez and Motte have great roles in the pen…
but we just dont have much in the way of SP talent.
If you listen to most independent observers most of our guys are no more that solid back of the rotation types or guys suited for the pen.
Signing sheets doesnt block anyone really
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
Agreed 100%
Signing Sheets is the ultimate low risk, high reward move. Not in the traditional sense of a low base, incentives type deal, but in the sense of the upgrade vs. downgrade.
It appears that the Cards are willing to go into next year with the current rotation of Carp, Wainwright, Lohse, Piniero and Wellemeyer. Other candidates to fill the rotation are FA starters Looper, Wolf and Perez and in house candidates McClellan, Todd and Boggs. To me all of those guys are interchangeable. The FA’s are proven, but any of our in house guys could probably be just as effective. If we were to sign Sheets over another FA starter and he was healthy for even 3/4 of the year than the upgrade over Pinata, or whom ever he would be replacing, would be close to 3 wins. However if he was injured and didn’t pitch AT ALL then the downgrade from Looper/Wolf/Perez to McClellan/Boggs/Todd would only be about .5 wins at best.
The money really is a non issue. He would only require a 2 year deal with a lowish base salary of 9 million. We had over a 100 million dollar payroll last year and right now it is about 90, so we could easily come up with the money, or do some things with deferred money to make it work.
vivaelbensheets
ultimate low risk, high reward
not sure that i agree. the high would be a 3 WAR player that could possibly get us the wildcard. the low would be losing a 1st round pick and paying a player 9-10 mil to rehab for the next team he plays for. i just don’t think i’m comfortable with those wagers especially when most mlb teams aren’t either.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
i read it
i thought i was arguing that the money was not a non-issue. 9 mil is still a lot of money considering how much we already have invested in our rotation.
i was also arguing that we lose our 1st round pick which wasn’t stated in your comment and should be included in the “risk” portion.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Your profile pic makes me hungry for Krispy Kreme
Mmmmmm donuts
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
yeah
I could go for a few of those right about now… Donut King, do you deliver? I have a headache and it is very cold outside, but I am hungry
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 31, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
heh heh heh . . .
this is why the folks at StL Game Time love me.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
And sorry . . .
I don’t deliver.
But damnit, Krispy Kremes are the best!
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
I would love to see sheets signed...
however, it really concerns me that the brewers have zero interest in bringing him back, while they have tossed around the idea of braden looper who would cost only slightly less
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 31, 2009 2:17 PM EST reply actions
they did offer him arbitration
which would have netted him at least $15M on a 1-year deal. Once he turned that down, they spent the money on other things (IE, not trading cameron).
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I think they were pretty confident he wasn't going to accept.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
but if he was really hurt
don’t you think he would have accepted?
To me, arguments that rely on “no other team is signing him, so he’s hurt” fall apart when you consider that the brewers effectively offered $15M or so and he turned it down to try to get a marginal amount more (IE, the 2Y/18M speculations).
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Only two players accepted arbitration
I think the agents just didn’t believe all the GM’s would learn to say No.
It is no fun looking at my team, seeing serious weaknesses, and also seeing no activity. But, it has to be an even lousier feeling for all those free agents.
My best guess is that the Brewers are desperate to get a draft pick. Therefore, they don’t want him back.
If we don’t sign him, I guess I hope Sheets’ price goes low enough that a team with a protected pick will. I won’t hope that the Yankees sign him, although it probably makes a lot of sense for them to lurk around and try to get a deal.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 31, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
The Yankee's rotation is complete... unles they move Joba back to the pen.
In all honesty, though, I can’t blame the FO for being lukewarm on Sheets, as much as I would personally like Sheets. It always seems like the big FA starting pitcher contracts, especially in recent years, have been busts. Kevin Brown, Jason Schmidt, Barry Zito, Randy Johnson…. I could go on. And if any pitcher is a bet to be a bust…. its Sheets
And with that being said….
SIGN SHEETS
Hey, its not my money.
by Czechguardsman on Jan 31, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
A healthy Sheets
Would, I think, push Wang out of the rotation. Wang is “hoping to be ready for spring training” right now, anyway.
I don’t really want to see it, but it might push them back over the Red Socks.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 31, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
they said a few times the door is still open
I think the big difference is Sheets wants two years and Brewers one. Then there is price and how you structure it. His agent said at the time Penny was signed that he didn’t want to do a deal like that.
yeah
bringing in talented players is for fools, we should just get a bunch of Loopers and rack up the WS rings ;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
all kidding aside
this is the only way the Cards could ever get a pitcher of Sheets caliber on the FA market.
They have to take the risk.
Yeah, it could blow up in their faces, but its not like they are going to win the division as the team is now.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 31, 2009 2:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
its not like they are going to win the division as the team is now.
I agree with this 100%. The only problem is, no one seems to be capable of convincing Mo this is the case. As long as he thinks a rotation of:
Waino
Carp (maybe)
Welley
Lohse
Piniero
is capable of “competing” in the division, I don’t see us signing Sheets. We need Pin-head to have emergency Tommy John’s next week. Then, we can go get Sheets.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 31, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
if only we could somehow trade pineiro...
and some outfielders…
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 31, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Or if Carp is named the closer
Then management will have to sign another oft-injured ace.
vivaelbensheets
you nailed it, jb...
or at least I strongly agree with your reasoning. It’s a rare ‘chance’ to get a Cy Young Award type ace to anchor the otherwise so-so rotation.
If Carpenter was 100% healthy beyond a doubt, then the situation might be different. Might.
Risk, yes…EVERY pitcher is a risk when you really look at it. But we aren’t paying Clement or Mulder anymore, so there is room in the infirmary.
good point
Clement and Mulder are history
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 31, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
It would make MORE sense
to sign him if there weren’t questions about Carpenter. I’ve never understood what this has to do with him. There are five rotation spots and in a perfect world where everyone’s healthy, the Cardinals recognize Pineiro as a sunk cost. Sheets is a risky gamble at a huge upgrade that I would rather make if this team looked a little better on paper.
Of course, I’d love to have him either way.
BEN SHEETS
looks so damned HEALTHY in that picture…
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 31, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
239 INNINGS
22 WINS. NO LOSSES. CY YOUNG. MVP. WORLD SERIES!!!
Seriously, I believe the Baseball Gods are still angry with Milwaukee over the shirt-untucking thing last year, and they will use Sheets as the instrument by which they are punished.
Imagine how awful it would be if we let the Cubs sign him?
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Ahh the Brewer's nightmare
Signing Ben Sheets, and using him against them
The Cub’s Nightmare:
Signing ManRam and Sheets
damnit, i wish i was the GM
BEN MOTHERHUSTYOURMOUTHSHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
please don't let the cubs sign him...
I cannot bare to watch the cubs win the world series. That is the one thing I have going for me. The cubs will never win the world series and that fact gives me joy!!!!
by sheets in cardinal red on Feb 3, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
i'd take 175
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 31, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Andy Benes?
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
OH!
My bad
:-D
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I am sure it is a common mistake
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
My quiet suspicion is...
If Sheets wasn’t a Type A free agent, he would be signed right now (at least by someone). But Mokeliak and company are privately adamant about giving up a 1st round draft pick. ESPECIALLY when it would go to a division rival.
Sheets would make an excellent addition to the team, but the loss of the pick makes this deal a non-starter.
by JWO on Jan 31, 2009 5:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm inclined to agree, but....
Could someone refresh my memory on whether or not Fuentes was a type A? I honestly can’t remember.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 31, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
yeah he was. that didn't matter with him, so it should not matter with BEN SHEETS
BEN MOTHERHUSTYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Yep
that’s what I thought. Therefore, the money and the draft pick are nonissues. Unless, of course, we were never going to sign Fuentes. I wouldn’t put it past Mo to make an offer that he knew wouldn’t be accepted just to look busy.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
i dunno
a risky ace vrs a who knows what?
for ever Wallace and Rasmus there is a Lambert or whatever.
Though the failures of the past were a different regimes problem
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 31, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I know
but so many draft pics are busts ;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
But sometimes
we can trade them for great players. I think we landed Mike Maroth for Chris Lambert!
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Feb 1, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You get two draft picks back when he leaves
and the draft pick just isn’t worth as much as a top ace pitcher.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
After this offseason
I think the whole “just wait til we get the draft picks” thing should be put on ice a little. It’s obvious teams are being a little more protective of their draft picks especially when there are possibly better or just as good options out there.
Then, you gotta offer arbitration. We all thought we would be getting a pick for Looper and possibly Springer, but that didn’t happen.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
One way or the other, it's a marginal consideration when the upside is getting Ben Sheets for $9M/yr
It’s even more marginal when you consider that there’s the possibility of getting the draft picks back twofold.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
That's to say
if we’re worrying about draft picks when we’re signing Juan Encarnación, Kyle Lohse or whoever, fine.
But if we’re talking about difference making players, we really should be more concerned about money and years. Those considerations are just going to swamp the value of the draft pick.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Ben Sheets.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jan 31, 2009 8:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Hahaha
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
Sheets
Every team knows how talented this guy is, and his asking price is not that high. To me, that is the best evidence that this guy probably has some serious arm issues. The big money teams were buying starters this offseason and basically left Sheets alone. If he wasn’t damaged goods, wouldn’t the Yanks, Sox, Mets, Cubs, Angels, or Dodgers have scooped him up? (They all went after pitching this offseason.) If healthy, he would be a tremendous bargain, but the signs seem to be pointing to bad arm problems. (The end of last season and the lack of off-season interest.)
And for the people who say that 150 innings of Sheets is worth the money. My guess is that if he is damaged goods, you aren’t going to get 15 innings out of him.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
Perhaps
They really have no clue what his condition is, or when his injuries will flare up again. Plus, you have to consider that since he is a Type A guy, some clubs don’t want to damage their farm system by taking a risk, I think that we should take the risk, as I have said before.
The Yankees wouldn't hurt a thing by signing him
They’re long past giving up a 1st rounder.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
yankees
Cannot sign anymore type A or type B free agents. There is some sort of rule in baseball that has a formula that restricts the number of these type of free agents one team can sign in one offseason. The Yankees have hit the cap. They can’t sign Manny, Sheets, Oliver Perez, or any other type A or B. (except Abreu…because he was their own free agent.)
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
I think that was falsely reported
The latest reporting I’ve seen is that any team can sign up to 8 Type A + Type B combined. MLBTR has a write-up.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Feb 1, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
I think they are still confused about that over there
so I say we welcome them to the club.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
MLB,com
covered this issue as well. Any team can sign any number of free agents.
BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!
there is a sub-section in the CBA
that covers this, but it looks like it would take a cryptologist to figure it out
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
There is confusion there.
Looks like, though, they’re safe. Not like the Yanks would let silly little rules get in the way of anything anyway . . .
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
They can still sign 3 more type As because they lost 3 Type As already.
It would make sense for them to sign Sheets(if joba goes to the pen) or Juan Cruz because they’ll only forefit a 4th round pick.
by Czechguardsman on Feb 1, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think that an ideal situation for us
Is to hope that some team like the Yankees signs him, and we pull off a trade, highly unlikely, I know, but they at least had interest in Ankiel a while ago
Doesn't the CBA kind of put a damper on this?
I might be mistaken, but I think if you sign a player as a FA, you have to wait until the following June the 15th to trade him without his approval. I think I read that in there , but I can’t get the file to pull up right now. Of course even if that isn’t the case, he does have the right to demand a trade since he was signed in the middle of a multi-year contract. I am not sure how this would work on a one-year contract.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
the first part is true (june 15th)
the bit about “he does have the right to demand a trade since he was traded in the middle of a multi-year contract” no longer exists; it went away with the current CBA.
None of that does anything to keep us from negotiating a deal with Sheets to play in STl, and then asking NY to sign him to a contract for the same $$$/conditions etc, and trading for him right after he signs (and immediately waives his right to not be traded). You’d effectively be trading player X for their low-round draft pick. It would probably be unethical, and MIL might challenge it, but it should fit within the rules.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I see
so let me get this straight. NY signs Sheets and then trades him to us so we don’t have to give up a draft pick. All we have to do is make it worth their while to give up their now, what? 4th round pick? Sounds good to me.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
if MO wasn't reading VEB before, he better start reading now
we’re a bunch of frickin geniuses
and of course by “we’re” i mean everyone else. my primary role here is to talk out my pooper & provide comedic relief.
i know i’ve been slacking lately, so i’ll pick up the pace & start giving 110%. i’ll just take it one day at a time, and the good lord willing, good things will happen. i know the best 9 start everyday, so i gotta hit the cage early & often.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
no matter how good you get your ST patter, gdm
i don’t think mo’s gonna send you a non-roster invitation.
if i didn't let my parents kill my dreams,
i’m damn sure not gonna let you.
i’m good enough, i’m smart enough, and dog gone it, i’ll make the team!
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
i don't know if you'll make the team
but, doggone it, people like you ;)
God, i miss chris farley. Will Farrell is such a poor imitation.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Then go run for Senate in Minnesota.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
No.
Still gotta wait until June 15.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
no.
Not if he agrees to the move ahead of time. the june 15th deadline is waiveable.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Either way.
The chance of his happening is virtually nil so it’s a moot point.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
You're not alone
I’ve been quite vocal about what a good thing it is that the Cards aren’t going after Sheets. My main concern is that if he gets hurt again, and Carp struggles, it will be a bad situation for the Cardinals.
I’m also very happy that the Cards aren’t pursuing Manny. They don’t need a clubhouse cancer like him on the team, even if he’s a great player. We don’t want to see another Boston episode of “Manny being Manny” do we? If we got him, there’d always be that risk. Plus, he’d be a ton of $.
Welcome to Baseball Heaven.
If Carp struggles WITH Sheets
The season is likely in jeopardy anyway.
Boston is a very different place from St. Louis, the Boston FO constantly threatened to trade Manny before the regular season almost every year of his contract(read that somewhere, source unavailable). He finally just got pissed off at the office. Plus, if he has a friend in Pujols, and he is on a competitive team, it extremely lowers the risk that he will be unhappy and/or lose any work ethic he has at the time. You are correct, at this very moment, he would be expensive, but the longer we wait, the more the price goes down. Plus, if it appeases Pujols, and he wants to take a hometown discount, that may save money for the club in the long run.
Most of the contracts for Pitchers, Older hitters usually has risk involved. I think that Sheets is a moderate risk/high reward type scenario, Manny, even when unhappy in Boston, still hit well. It’s not like he will just stop batting. He will still continue to produce.
Btw, I can’t believe that I didn’t know this, but Pujols was a 13th round draft pick, WHAT?!?!?
I was almost certain . . .
that the fact had been beaten far enough into the ground that everyone knew it.
Albert Pujols > David Backes = Chuck Norris
If El Hombre signs a new contract with us, he WILL become the first current Cardinals player with a statue in his honor in front of Busch Stadium. And he’d get it WHILE HE’S STILL PLAYING HERE!
(I’m envisioning a 10Y/350MM contract. If the front office is smart, they’ll do it.)
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
if MO's really smart, he'll make his star player happy & sign his good friend Manny
and don’t foget BEN SHEETS!!!!
BEN MOTHERHUSTYOURMOUTHSHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Manny isn't a clubhouse cancer
It’s documented that he spends all of his time working out and practicing when the game;s not going on. He’s the first guy to the ballpark and the last guy to leave. He gets shit about tanking it on the Sox last year but people who say that ignore his July in which he played in 22 of 24 games and had the best offensive month of anyone on the team.
I’ll bet you one million internet dollars that if he signs with a team other than the Dodgers or Angels, that team trades him to a contender at the trade deadline.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
heres how I look at it
if the Cards sign Sheets and both Carp and Sheets get hurt, we bring up Boggs or Mortensen and probably dont win the division, miss wild card
if cards sing (say Looper) and Carp goes down, we call up pitchers maybe make a trade, we probably dont win the division and miss the wild card…
so whats the difference?
Then lets say we sign Sheets and Carp does come back but Sheets is healthy. We have as good of rotation as anyone, not quite as good as Carp in top form but a legit ace. We have a shot.
If carp comes back and sheets is out, we call up one guy (who probably pitches nearly as well as Looper would anyway, i mean im sure theres a fall off) we still have a shot.
and if both are healthy we look like a serious contender
I know it would be a disaster if both sheets and carp went down but say we have Loop and Carp goes down?
Whats the point? We are just going to be a mediocre team with no shot of winning…but we wont be horrible. Big whoop.
If we have sheets and carp goes down we are still a contender.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
love the "viva el ben sheets"
that should be the honorary name of this blog for the offseason
Sign Ben Sheets!
as much as the team hustled last year
they DESERVE a chance to roll the dice on a pitcher like Sheets.
Another perspective on it… wouldn’t most Cub and Brewer fans NOT like it; or, put the other way, would WE like it if the Cubs picked him up?
this is probably why i shouldn't be the Cards GM
i do stuff just to F with the flubs. God save me i would.
BEN MOTHERHUSTYOURMOUTHSHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
waking to another sheetless morning
depressing
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
It must have been cold
sleeping without any sheets ;)
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Feb 1, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
tomorrows going to be the day...
i just know it ;-)
They probably already have the deal in place but didnt want to be overshadowed by the super bowl
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
waking up to another thread talking about ben sheets
depressing. i pray that i can make it to pitchers and catcher day. then maybe we can talk about something else.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
like what?
the looming trade deadline deal for Sheets…?
The impending half a year Roger Clemens deal with Sheets…??
Buying the neato new laundry sheets…???
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
So let's see
I wonder if it is even plausible to sign both Sheets and Manny
If Manny wants to take a discount(Unlikely), I think it would be around 15 million.
Sheets, in this current economy, is probably worth around 8-9 million
So we are looking at around 24 million. So we have to get rid of funds elsewhere,
Any way we can get rid of him?
Get rid of whom?
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Feb 1, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it would take a hell of an insurance policy
and finding a way to have a trained raptor taking out his elbow ligaments. I did go to school with someone who is into falconry, so now someone just needs to find out about the insurance they have on Joel.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
I'm just disappointed Spants hasn't "rec'd" my comment
for proper “who/whom” usage…..
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Feb 1, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
its been said many times that this team would bump up payroll for a special player
too bad neither Manny nor Sheets are special
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
is the sarcasm detector broken?
ive been a huge proponent of signing Sheets this offseason
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
i dont mean that to sound rude
re reading it it might come off that way, sorry
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
Who are
these special players, then? And won’t they be WAY too expensive to be considered a “bump” in payroll? Ben Sheets would command only a “bump” in payroll.
BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!
I'm about 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% positive
jealousblues is being s.a.r.c.a.s.t.i.c.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
there's been only two special players
Fuentes & Holliday. every other player out there the Cards have as good or better players already on the roster or in the minors just waiting for their turn.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
no team, but particularly a team like stl
should not sign only 1 type A, the second one is at a big discount (no first round pick lost).
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
A backloaded $10M, roughly
A discount, sure, but not all that massive of one in most cases, where you’re signing the guy to 3-5 years.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Wait...
Ben Sheets has a history of arm trouble and is an injury risk? He could make MORE than Kyle Lohse?
Well, I’m jumping off this bandwagon.
/sarcasm
by Beware the Molinas on Feb 1, 2009 4:03 PM EST reply actions
I agree with alot of you....
I personally believe Ben Sheets is worth the risk, all the number have been put out there.
I just believe the team that signs him will get one helluva determined pitcher. He has to be upset that all the clubs are passing on him because of his injury history, while he, i’m sure, believes he’s as healthy as he was last year.
I just hope it’s the Cards and not another National League club, because if healthy, I think he’s gonna be really tough this year.
So if not the Cards, then I hope the Rangers (where his value will probably drop more).
by DisplacedCardsFan on Feb 2, 2009 4:12 AM EST reply actions
maybe someone should send Ben Sheets a link to VEB
I just pretended I was him as I read through the message boards and decided to give a 2 mil/year discount.
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
Simply put...
Why sign Ben Sheets? Because he’s probably the difference between the Cardinals finishing just out of the playoffs…and going to the playoffs. Where anything can happen. Sure he’s an injury risk. But he’s a good enough pitcher to take that risk.
Sign Ben Sheets.
-- GOOCH
Yes, sign Ben Sheets!!!!
and make Mather or Shumaker take grounders at 2nd Base. I like our lineup better with Mather over Kennedy but who knows if he can play 2nd base.
by sheets in cardinal red on Feb 3, 2009 6:22 PM EST reply actions
Hoo boy.
You’ve obviously never seen me play 2B.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
As long as you're aware there is a position called second base,
you can play second base.
For crying out loud, if Craig Biggio can do it so can anyone else………especially catchers. They make the best second basemen.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
easiest way to be a hall of famer is to switch from catcher to 2nd base
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
wonder what the reason for this is
there’s been a surprisingly awesome number of guys transition from C to 2B, far more than you’d expect. I wonder if all the squatting gives them a first-step strength advantage? Or if it has to do with being able to read the pitch and move before it’s hit, since they are used to seeing it from the other angle?
When anderson is ready, we really should have yadi give it a shot.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I think it's a natural progression
for catchers to become second basemen.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
When I played little league
I only played the OF. Center and Right mostly. But about 2 years ago a friend of mine needed me to fill in for a guy who was missing in their local softball league team. I hadn’t played anytype of organized ball in about five years. They stuck me at 2B. And I made the game-winning out, along with a few other plays. Anyone can play second. You would just have to know how bad I was at fielding grounders to understand…
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Feb 4, 2009 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
Sheets is injured
CBS Sports says he is out until at least early June. http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybaseball/players/playerpage/174800
by ultimatecardinalfan on Feb 4, 2009 7:26 PM EST reply actions
this is just internet rumor-mongering.
the authors say they “guess” he’s more injured than previously acknowledged. that’s not word from a doctor, from a club, from an agent, from anybody with any inside information. that’s not word from anybody but inside the brains of the people writing the blog.
fantasynews indeed.
To be completely honest.
I find this hilarious.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
Actually tom s. is kinda correct.
He didn’t get hurt, he’s just probably still hurt. Still think its funny though.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I find it hilarious
that a fantasy report has gotten linked at least 3 times as a source that he is definitely injured.
Hell, there is a good chance that he might be out til june, but can we wait until there is a somewhat credible source before we link it?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
no doubt, check your sources people
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
And now . . .
a word from someone who presumably checks his sources. ESPN’s Jayson Stark:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3886732
Now . . . these don’t always come out true. But more often than not . . . where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
Your right
we should just sign him up first and then find out if it’s true.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I don't think we should sign him if it is true
I just think that if you read that tidbit of information on there, it is obvious it was an assumption. It now looks like the correct assumption, but that doesn’t change the validity of assumptions in general.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
Well . . .
shortly after I posted my previous comment . . . we get this from Jon Heyman of SI:
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/47664
I’m not a huge fan of Heyman, but I will say that more often than not, he gets his story accurate, from reputable sources. I guess talking to the guy’s agent would count as a reputable source. Money quote:
After failing to receive any offers reflective of his superior talent, (agent Casey) Close said Sheets concluded, "I’m just going to get this fixed.’’
Maybe Sheets in ‘10? I would hope it’s a no-go in ’09.
"Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile." -- Vince Lombardi
(No, I'm not a Packers fan)
I am still up
for Sheets in ’10.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and....BEN SHEETS!!! **
**not that BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment, just BEN SHEETS!!!
(BEN SHEETS might be involved in this comment)
I say
Sheets at the All-Star break…and we don’t lose a pick then either.
Milwaukee’s whole “restock the farm system with all these high draft picks” strategy is f***ed.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
this is how we got carp
so why not double dip?
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
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