Disappointing
by chuckb on Jan 29, 2009 7:00 AM EST
in St. Louis Cardinals News
Email
PrintNow I rarely really let loose here, so forgive me if what I say offends in any way, but after being directed to it by Bernie’s column the next day I had to take a look at this transcript. I have to say that there have been few times in my life where I have been so disgusted and proud at the same time. I was disgusted by the behavior of a few Cardinal "fans" who participated in this chat and proud at the way in which our VEB members conduct discourse. We never devolve into the idiocy that defiled the chat w/ Mozeliak and I can promise you, if it ever did, it would end quickly.
I was positively disgusted by the sophomoric behavior of some of these cretins. They practically accused Mozeliak of being Bill DeWitt’s lackey and implied that he couldn’t care less whether the Cards won or not. One asked whether there was any chance the Cards might sign anyone that another team might want. Another implied that Mozeliak didn’t want the Cards to win a championship. The largest ingrate of them all asked the Cards’ GM what it was like to "live in his little land of make believe" and later called him a "loser" and told him to go hang out in a "teen chat room." What a degenerate!
Let me be clear, I don’t give a damn how you feel the Cards’ offseason has gone. If you feel personally betrayed by the Cardinals organization because they didn’t sign Brian Fuentes, or haven’t yet signed Ben Sheets, or didn’t trade Rasmus in a package for Matt Holliday…so be it. Let’s be clear, though – there aren’t too damned many GMs in baseball who would give up an hour or two of their time to honestly answer fans’ questions on the internet. Do you think Brian Cashman does this in New York? I don’t.
Mozeliak knew the fanbase was somewhat riled up. How could he not? Still, he gave up his valuable time to take part in this chat knowing that he might have to deal w/ some criticism from fans. He couldn’t have known (who would have?) the depths to which some of these filthy creatures would stoop in order to take gratuitous and unsolicited shots at Mozeliak but he had to believe there might be some criticism or at least some frustration from fans. Yet he did it anyway. Only 2 or 3 of the people who participated in the chat bothered to thank him for his time. Hey, jackass – want Mozeliak to sign someone or make a trade? Criticize him for giving up his time to answer your idiotic questions rather than taking junior high school-level potshots at him on the internet. Each person who offered a question – legitimate or not – should have respected the fact that Mo gave up his time to do this and thanked him for doing so.
Furthermore, the Cards’ GM deserved the courtesy of legitimate, honest questions – not the baseball equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?". There were some legitimate questions – about Brad Penny, about Pineiro, and about the possibility of McClellan being moved to the rotation. Honest inquiry and debate is what Mo offered and what too few took advantage of. The most despicable thing about some of these participants’ behavior was that they were so gutless that they didn’t dare use their real names when they tossed these cheap shots Mo’s way. You’re willing to criticize Mo for trying to connect to the fans in a way that few other GMs do and you don’t even have the stones to use your real name when you post? Gutless! Cowardly!
After reading that post, and then nearly wanting to vomit at the behavior of these so-called "fans," I became more thankful for what we have here at Viva El Birdos. There’s little real name-calling and, when it does start, someone is quick to shut it down – usually w/o me or Dan or AZ or redbaron having to get involved. We appreciate that more than you know. This is a tremendous community and it’s been a frustrating offseason for many of us, but there have been very few incidents – and certainly none like what you can witness by reading the transcript of that chat.
Why would Mo ever participate in something like that again? You think he did that for his benefit? Because he had no one else to talk to? He did it to make a better connection with the fans and help explain his point of view and the plan he has for the organization. We may not agree with it, but we ought to respect his judgment and his right to tell us. Make no mistake – he didn’t have to take part in that chat and he doesn’t have to take part in one ever again. The way in which he was treated – by some, not all – was beyond despicable and those who did that ought to be ashamed of themselves. I’m embarrassed to root for the same team. My guess is that they have no shame whatsoever – no guilt, no sense of decency or right and wrong -- maggots on the flesh of society. Again, I apologize if I offend. Understand that I’m not speaking about anyone here.
So I’m done w/ my screed. I don’t do that often and you won’t read one from me for a long time but I wanted to take this opportunity today to appreciate the fact that Mo chose to take part in that chat and appreciate the fact, whether we think he’s doing a good job or not, that few GMs would have done what he did last Wednesday. I’m not saying we shouldn’t criticize him; we absolutely should if his decisions warrant criticism and I’ve been critical of him on occasion. We should criticize the decisions, however, not the man and we should be able to explain, intelligently, why we disagree with his decisions and not accuse him of false motives or worse.
To that end, I wanted to take today to, in a calm and rational manner, discuss our biggest disappointments of the offseason so far – and what we’re happiest about. I hope that this will be somewhat cathartic. Let’s get it all out – w/o insults – say our peace (I want Ben Sheets &*%%^&&^^!!!!!!) and clear the air.
What I’m happiest about is the fact that I truly believe that Colby Rasmus is going to get a fair shot to win an OF job in the spring. I know that many of the writers at the p-d think he’ll end up back in Memphis and, if he’s outplayed, I can live with that. However, despite the usually on-the-spot Derrick Goold’s proclamation, Rasmus was not outplayed by Ludwick, Ankiel, and Skip last March and I expect that if Rasmus plays that well this March, he’ll win a job.
The biggest disappointment so far – that they haven’t been able to trade Ankiel for a young starter. I really believe now is the time to trade him and thought he would have enough trade value to bring us a young starter. It’s appearing now, however, as though it isn’t going to happen. As the free agent market has entered a free-fall, teams are placing much more value on their young players and that seems to reduce the likelihood that Mo will be able to pull off this sort of trade. The bottom line is that our rotation needs help – particularly 1 pretty good, young pitcher – and Ankiel will be a free agent at the end of the season and he’s replaceable w/ Rasmus this season. All signs point to an excellent opportunity here but it hasn’t happened yet and I really don’t think it’s going to. I hope I’m wrong.
So, w/o further ado – what are you happiest with and what’s your biggest disappointment regarding the offseason so far? And, let’s keep it respectable. I know you will. Thanks for that.
387 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
What I really want to know
Is who picked the questions. I’ve heard conflicting reports about this — am I wrong to think this is a pretty damn silly thing to hear conflicting reports about? Someone just own up. Either Mo picked insulting questions to answer for reasons I’m not sure I understand (perhaps he relished in an opportunity to fire back) or someone at the P-D hand-selected those craptastic questions and shoved them down Mo’s throat. Come to think of it, I don’t understand that either. Just how did questions like that end up being answered? Surely he was asked many more civil and productive questions.
In the end, I agree, the whole thing was a disaster. I don’t know why Mo would ever want to do one again.
As for the offseason…I dunno. I shall reserve judgment for later. Frankly, I don’t see how we can continue into next season without another legitimate starter around. But there’s still time. I am happy to see that Mo is committed to retaining the young, inexpensive talent. And I am also excited to see Rasmus play.
mo chat
hummel says mo chose which to answer and bernie says the opposite. regardless, mo doesn’t work of the pd and seems like he could opt out if by no other means than a simple no comment. i find his choice to respond and how he did embarrassing for him and the organization. from me and others, there were more baseball related questions available to be chosen, bad decisions all round.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
+1
"The only thing that matters is that we win the World Series." - A.Pujols
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 29, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
not sure why
you would even let a guy with the username I HATE Bill Dewitt!!! ask 2 inflammatory questions while others with intelligent and insightful questions were given the shaft.
"The only thing that matters is that we win the World Series." - A.Pujols
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 29, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
DeWitt
Remember several years ago, before the Cards won another Series, when everyone loved the ownership team. Strange series of events that has led to this downfall of DeWitt’s image. Love DeWitt- Good team- great team- getting too old- win the World Series- rejuvenate the franchise from the bottom up- hate DeWitt. Makes no sense.
by Scarecrow7775 on Jan 29, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
This is what happens when you build a new stadium
with some public money and then keep payroll at the same rate as it was BEFORE you built the stadium. Don’t approach the public for a new stadium by stating that it will allow you, as the owner, to spend more money on players to keep the team competitive in the future….and then NOT spend more than you were spending before after the ballpark has been open for 3 full seasons. Couple that with the quagmire that is Ballpark Village and the hairy situation with the condominiums on the east side of the stadium, and you have a lot of people who feel lied to because they thought the stadium was going to be a starting point for a revitalization project for the downtown area.
I’m not saying I share the frustrations of some of the fanbase — I don’t live in St. Louis, and only visit once or twice a year, so it doesn’t impact me on a daily basis — but I do understand the frustrations with ownership and the front office.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 29, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
The stadium is a big part of the problem. They asked for it so they “could remain competitive,” but they haven’t at all, with salary frozen in place.
Mo has said to not focus on payroll. OK. Let’s focus on results. From 2000-2005, the Cardinals averaged 95.8 wins a season. Since the opening of the new stadium, the team has averaged 82.3 wins. We’re averaging a record just over .500, with 13.5 wins fewer per season. That is the problem. They keep fielding a .500 team, and adding flawed, discounted players to it in an attempt to make it better. Once upon a time we’d add an Edmonds, a Rolen, or a Walker. Now we add a Royce Ring.
by tarakas on Jan 29, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Stadium and Ticket Prices
I call the new Busch Stadium a big AutoZone Park. It’s nice. The ticket prices for the Cardinals are the highest of any small market team. St. Louis draws extremely well. The fans are doing their part in putting money into the team.
I’ve gotten around the high parking fees by parking at Forest Park and DeBaliviere and taking the MetroLink to Busch. Those parking prices near the stadium are exorbitant.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
I'm not financial whiz
but maybe the new stadium is allowing them to keep payroll where it is, while if they’d have stayed at the old place payroll would have dropped.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jan 29, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
The team was profitable at the old stadium with the same payroll
Tickets have gone up about 20% overall in the new stadium yet payroll stays the same. If the team was profitable before than the payroll could have gone up another 20% and the team should still be more profitable because they have more luxury boxes and high ticket seating to sell, as well as increased concessions.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
How do you know they were profitable
Its been a while, but I think one of the reasons they were asking for a new stadium was because high upkeep costs at the old stadium weren’t allowing them to be profitable.
by eeyorethedog on Jan 29, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
fourstick
does they fact that the new stadium has what 8-10 thousand fewr seats have anything to do with the ticket prices? I was at Bucsh once, and I have not been back to St. Louis for the new park. Well, net yet anyway. It is a hike from Syracsue. So my question may sound silly, but I am serious. What are the new revenues vs the old stadium? And does anyone in the fandom know the profit and loss statement of the Cards? I said at the time of the market crash that teams will look very closely at the money for ’09. Attendance could be way down next year. Are the Cards trying to prepare for the worse?
from what I understand
less seat but more “high profit” luxury boxes
"The only thing that matters is that we win the World Series." - A.Pujols
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 29, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
The boxes is where they really make their money in Busch III. Those are basically 20 upper loge level seats that they sell for $50,000-$100,000 a season. Quite a premium wouldn’t you say?
They do have fewer seats, but the box seats go for about 35-40% more than what they did at Busch II. Busch II also had some ghastly seats for viewing the game because it was designed to house both football and baseball — even after the facelift you could still have some seats that weren’t great for baseball viewing. I’ve been to about 10 games at the new stadium and I’ve say pretty much everywhere — I’ve yet to find a really bad seat in the house. You get good viewing angles from everywhere.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I don't like the outfield box seats.
They’re angled so that you have to twist in your seat to see the batters and pitchers. Kinda sucks.
BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!
I wish the whole outfield was nothing but bleachers.
They sell out too fast now.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
once upon a time this team strived to win the divison and make the playoffs every year, maybe win the series
now their goal is to be competitive.
thats what the reds and pirates goal is, not winning teams. Winnings teams goal is to win the division and win in the playoffs not to be competitive.
thats the whole mindset of this organization right now
weather its the season performance, or adding new players in FA we are competitive not winners
ive said it before and ill say it again, what if Pujols’ goal was to be competitive with other 1b?
to be OK or average
tbh if this keeps up I ALMOST hope he walks. Why waste a HOF career for a team that doesnt care?
Why be an excellent player stuck on a mediocre team for the rest of your career?
I guarantee he isnt that complacent.
This team needs to realize they have a once in a lifetime player on their hands at a bargain price and appreciate it.
Why squander this?
Because when he is gone, hes not coming back and its going to cost a lot to replace that.
You have a special player, a dynasty builder, so build a dynasty around him.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
"so build a dynasty"
I think that we’re working on it, what with the “keep the young guys” mantra. Dynasty seems to imply long-term winning—isn’t that what the young movement is all about? Cheap talent for many years?
You can argue that they’re not doing it well, I guess, but considering the state of the team following the eventual collapse of Walt Jocketty’s “win every year” mentality that you so fondly remember, I think they’re doing a pretty good job of moving toward that string of dominance again.
if our 86 win team last year was competitive,
would you call a 96-100 win team a “winning” team you desire?
is that what we were in 08 with a healthy carpenter and an effective izzy?
those two were about 20 mil in 08. do you suggest we throw an additional 20 mil per at it every year, just in case? is that realistic?
throw mulder, clement, encarnacion, etc in there, we accomplished 86 wins on about 70 mil. throw 30 mil more at it ? at what point does the “lack of spending”, lose credibility?
if we spend 150 mil and 50 mil goes DL, should we have spent 200?
at what point do we acknowledge that injuries and ineffectivness had more to do with 08, than a lack of budget?
by ball in play on Jan 29, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
i suppose im writing Carp off as a sunk cost
at this point.
Ill believe it when i see it if he is ever going to be what we remember.
I cant think of one real impact addition this team has brought in since 2005.
Glaus for an aging Rolen has been pretty good though.
other than that its been a lot of Encarnacions, Kennedys, Loopers, and Ponsons and the talent on the team has diminished greatly.
this about where we would be if Ludwick didnt turn out to be what he has?
I mean thats pure luck, I dont care who you are.
or if we didnt have a failed pitcher in the minors who could come up and be a power threat?
and both of them are a bargain.
yeah, we have had our share of bad luck, but weve also had a ridiculous amount of good luck and super bargains. Even Pujols is a bargain in this environment.
weve had our fair share of cheap players (and there are more on the way) I would just like to see us pony up once in a while and really add.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
and when they do spend
its on guys like Piniero for 7 mil
thats whats frustrating
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
or if Lohse wasnt there for the grabbing in spring training last year
that wasnt any amazing plan it was amazing luck.
we went into spring counting on injured and ineffective pitching and it bit us in the butt and in a spectacular coincidence Lohse was there.
We would have never signed him if it werent for that, where would our team have been if they werent forced into signing him?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
where we would we have been if mo didn't still have funds available to acquire lohse.
it wasn’t luck that mo still had chips on the table to make an acquisition with. how many teams spent 4.25 mil after 3-15-08?
not to argue, i just think “lack of spending” is a crutch, that can snowball.
if a fan has a beef with who the org acquires fine. but raise the spending as a cureall, can get out of control.
by ball in play on Jan 29, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This season
They aren’t saving $4.25 million for ST. They are saving at least $9M (Fuentes). $4.25M is pocket change. If there is ever someone like Lohse available for that kind of deal, payroll should expand for the year. Saving money hoping for that kind of deal to fall into your lap is just stupid.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 29, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no additions?
i keep hearing that argument and yet ludwick, ankiel, and wainwright have all been good additions. this year we should have rasmus. glaus was a good addition and hopefully greene will be too.
just because we haven’t added a big name high dollar free agent doesn’t mean we haven’t had additions.
the “ponying” up i think is going to come from extending our better players such as wainer, yadi, and pujols.
i think this offseason would be a huge success if we could just bring in a top of the line starter. thats the same with every team though and is also a very risky move a la mulder.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
i forgot about the extension for carp
that was a case of throwing big money at a player. that player just happened to be on our team and he just happened to get injured which is another cautionary tale about throwing high dollars at a pitcher.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Just because....
the salary of the major league team is frozen doesn’t mean they aren’t spending money to improve the team long term. I believe they are pumping money into neglected areas, namely the farm system and player development in other countries. These things should allow the Cardinals to remain highly competitive for years to come while controlling their costs. Time will tell. I’m sure they are also pumping some money into their wallets, but I believe they are operating with good intentions. All successful business owners try to control costs while also producing a quality product so as to be profitable. They are no different.
Also, it appears to me that the days of trade fleecings are over. Just like the players, the owners, GMs and other front office workers have gotten better, which is why player development and cost containment are essential.
I don't disagree totally with that...
but you can understand why the public perception is the way that it is, because payroll is one of the few things that actually get reported.
Conversely, if what you’re saying was true, the club would have bought the Memphis team when given the opportunity. They backed out. They really haven’t drafted over slot in any draft since the new stadium was built, and they had every reason to in 2007 when they could have drafted Rick Porcello instead of Pete Kozma. The farm system was in need of pitching and they could have gotten one of the top 3 pitchers in the draft, but didn’t want to pay his price. The Cardinals also haven’t been active in the Latin player markets until this year when they signed De La Cruz. They missed out on one of the better pitching prospects from down there because they didn’t pony up for the cost. While I think that money has been invested wisely in the farm system, I still don’t think that they are spending so much that they can’t afford to make the big club competitive with one or two free agent signings that have some impact.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I doubt
these MLB clubs leave any stones unturned….or cost-benefit analyses unperformed. They know what value free agents are likely to add, what the value of draft picks are, and so on. I think most veteran free agents are not worth the money if a young, cheap alternative exists. TLR most likely disagrees. And the Cardinals have drafted the same way as long as I can remember. They go after college pitchers and take quantity over quality. Do they get more for their money in doing so? I don’t know but I’d bet they do. Pitchers are a crap shoot but I think successful college pitchers are a better bet to be successful at the major league level than high school pitchers (Baseball Prospectus agrees with this and apparently so do the Cardinals). They will draft some high ceiling high school players like Rasmus but only if they don’t have to go over (or much over) slot. I’m not sure why they rarely go over slot. I would be interested in asking Mozeliak and Lunhow about their draft philosophy and what analyses are involved in their evaluations and picks. Unfortunately, the interviews I’ve read seem to yield only superficial answers. I’d also like to know how much revenue they have generated through their numerous playoff appearances in the last 15 years. And where did this money go? Lots of doors on the financial side of baseball which have not been opened.
The analysis on college pitchers
is somewhat flawed. It only counts the number of guys who make it to the big leagues. College pitchers are much more likely to be #5 starters and relief pitchers, which is exactly what we have. High school pitchers are about twice as likely as college pitchers to become top half of the rotation type guys and that doesn’t even take into consideration that a lot more college pitchers are drafted in the early rounds. The actual return on a draft pick basis is even better.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
link?
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Well, it's not a link, but
I looked at the 35 best pitchers from this last year (just went with #1-35 in *PRC at the Hardball Times). #35 is Josh Beckett, and I guess that I think if you have a pitcher like him or better, you have a #1 starter.
28.5% of them went to college. One was posted by a Japanese club.
That doesn’t prove anything as far as draft strategy. I have no idea what the failure rates are for either group, and there are plenty of other factors that come into play (paying over slot, etc.).
But I think the data do support that top-flight starters are more likely to come from high school (45.7% of the 2008 top-level starters) than from college. And healthy, young, top-flight starters are the ones we don’t sign as free agents.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 29, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Drafting pitching
Also, there were some surprising exceptions, but the median draft round for that group was round 2. So, if you want one of these guys, you probably have to use one of your top draft choices, and probably pay accordingly. 38% went in the 1st round.
Or, you might get one as an amateur free agent in a country that doesn’t go through the draft. Given my hopes that the Cardinals will not regularly have picks in the top half of the 1st round, that may be our best option. But there you have to pay, too. Still, it is cheaper than signing someone like Haren (sigh) when he comes on the MLB FA marketplace.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 30, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
one thing that consistently perplexes me
what exactly does “competitive” mean
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
I'd call it
playing somewhere close to .500, being within a few games of the wild card.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 29, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
How much public financing was there?
I understood there are some tax breaks, but that’s it—that the stadium itself was privately financed and the city’s giving them a tax cut while they’re paying down the debt load.
Am I wrong on that?
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/000324.html
"The only thing that matters is that we win the World Series." - A.Pujols
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 29, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
good link.
pretty much demolishes the “they got all this money from the city and now they aren’t giving back” argument.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Agreed.
But it does also state that even though St. Louis didn’t get fleeced like most other cities have within the past 30 years with despicable stadium financing deals, 25-33% of the new stadium was STILL publicly financed:
So while involving substantial public funds – somewhere between one-quarter and one-third the total construction cost, depending on how you count that loan…
Let’s just hope the whole Ballpark Village debacle gets turned around and helps revitalize the city like it was supposed to.
Although I must say the recent “Cubs Suck” snow message was certainly a good use of that land…
More importantly, though, the last segment certainly shows that the new stadium is a massive debt incurred by the team with large annual loan obligations…which may help explain some of the higher ticket prices/costs without a concomitant increase in payroll. Of course, that explanation also then makes one wonder why the owners would clamor for the new stadium if they weren’t going to make more money with it…
Overall, I think the new stadium vs. static payroll thing, while obviously related, is an overly simplistic view of the team’s “strategic goals.” Without complete access to the team’s books, it’s mostly speculation…and not terribly helpful.
The proof, as they say, is in the putting. One excellent way to start proving their committment to winning would be by putting BEN SHEETS on the payroll. (Huzzah! Snuck that one in there right at the end…)
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on Jan 29, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wasn't saying that the team should increase payroll because they have a new stadium.
I was merely pointing out that when you make a case for a new stadium so that you can “keep up with the joneses” in terms of revenue, and then you don’t make any impact free agent signings and payroll doesn’t climb and the team averages 10 fewer wins per season with no division titles in the first three years of the new stadium, public perception starts to wonder what the deal is.
This is especially true when you’re selling out your old stadium and are in the top half of the league in attendance every year. The club was spending more money (adjusting for inflation) in the years 2000-2004 in the run-up to building a new stadium than they have since they got said stadium. I don’t expect them to open up the books so we can see whether the team is making money or not, but you have to admit that it creates a public perception issue. It also doesn’t help that the clubs biggest rival spends money hand over fist to get wins. I’m not saying that’s the best way to win, and I think the Cubs are going to be in for a decade of hurt after 2011.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
it's not so much the stadium
but the ballpark village had a lot of public investment, there were squabbles over how to fund it, and it still hasn’t broke ground. I’m getting most of this from memory, so I might be inaccurate on a few counts.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Don't be too quick to judge
In rough terms, the new stadium cost $360M, with $45M in public funds for street work. Most of the stadium was financed with a $225M bond issue, which costs $16M annually to service, and a $90M private loan, which is probably relatively expensive debt. According to Forbes, gate receipts in 2008 accounted for half of franchise revenue, which suggests that the new stadium may not be the revenue boon many assume
So I am not sure the cash flow is there to dramatically expand the payroll right now. I did some back-of-the-napkin calculations, and concluded that debt service (principal and interest) will cost the owners about $40M per year during the first 5 years post-Busch III. My assumption is that they would pay the $90M off in 5 years.
So what are gate receipts for
3,432,917 fans? Probably pretty close to $100M just for the tickets.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
75M if every fan bought the cheapest ticket
so i would guess in the 120M range
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 29, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Forbes figures show
$194M in 2007 revenues, with $96M coming from gate receipts thanks to an average $28 ticket for the 3.4M fans. Obviously concessions and other ballpark sales account for additional revenues associated with the stadium. At $12 per head (assumption), you are looking at another $41M in revenues.
Forbes also shows $247M in debt for 2007, which is consistent with the $225M in bonds and some additional debt for the $90M financed internally. In retrospect, probably not all that $90M was borrowed. They probably used the cash proceeds from the parking garage sale and other asset sales to finance some of that. But a team with a $250M debt load probably is looking at at least $25M in debt service costs (interest and principal).
by Hungry Jack on Jan 30, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
smoke screen?
While I don’t share your opinion that Mo made the org. look bad with his answers, I too am confused by the choices of which questions to answer.
If the Post chose the questions, you’re right – a simple ‘no thanks’ likely would’ve been better – but I don’t have a problem with telling someone out of line that they’re out of line.
If Mo chose the questions, the only explanation I can see for taking those is that they were “off the grid.”
What I mean is that I’m sure he received plenty of questions that hit a little too close to home for trades he may be working on, free agents he’s speaking to, etc.
Matthew Leach has said in the past that this is a very tight-lipped front office that doesn’t like leaks. Maybe he was dodging the questions he didn’t want to give honest answers to?
by Pitchers Hit Eighth on Jan 29, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
I looked at Mo's response
as a sign that he isn’t afraid to duck the creeps out there who use the chat forum as a chance to take shots at someone while hiding behind a screen name. I read it and thought “good for you, Mo.” Now, would the chat have been better served answering legit baseball questions? Sure, without question. But I don’t think he made the organization look bad. I liked seeing him fire back. Just one fan’s opinion, fwiw.
"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by Futility Infielder on Jan 29, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
+1
if anybody made me feel more embarrassed it would be the fans that asked those questions. it makes me not want to root for the same team they do. most of the crap over at the p-d makes me feel that way.
if i’m him there is no way i do another chat. he needs to do some q and a’s with leach. i think that would be a nice compromise.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
I agree.
I thought Mo actually answering those ridiculous questions only helped him look better. And who knows…by embarrassing those trolls the way he did with his responses, perhaps he set the stage for a more mature, improved Q&A next time.
All I know is:
1) As a fellow fan, I was embarrassed by the sophomoric questions
2) Mo seems to have handled them with aplomb, which earned my respect
3) I really like that he has this community outreach thing going on…kudos to him for keeping that channel open
Who knows…maybe the P-D knew those preposterous/asinine questions would help drive traffic to their site (it certainly seems to have done so), and they pushed for them because of that.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
"perhaps he set the stage for a more mature, improved Q&A next time."
and hopefully not a flame war
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 30, 2009 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
agree, and a theory
I agree with your points PH8. One other theory I’ve had for why Mo choose to answer those questions is that he must pay some attention to the blogosphere and see some of the negativity and personal attacks out there. He must have been fed up with it (I don’t blame him), and choose that forum to post a reply. If he wasn’t aware of a lot of that imbecilic Internet chatter, then it would’ve been easier for him to dismiss it as a sole raving idiot.
And thankfully VEB is keeping it classy.
links
do you have links to where they said that?
link
http://www.stltoday.com/discussions/sports/cards-live/LD011609628
"The only thing that matters is that we win the World Series." - A.Pujols
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 29, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
That is despicable
I did not take part in the chat, and from your description, I probably never will, but that’s just low. Anyone on this blog who did that should be ashamed of themselves. I know fans can be passionate, and they have every right to, but the reality is, it is just a game.
Happiest: Trading a pitcher who really would not have been useful for a SS who has great potential. Mo immediately took care of on the the positions we were hurting in, and he did it fairly early in the off season. If the move pays off, however, we will see
Biggest Disappointment: Personally, I think that trading Ankiel right now is impossible, but I’m fine with MO saying that when a contending team gets desperate mid season, they may be willing to trade that good young pitcher for a bat. My disappointment probably was the inability to unload Adam Kennedy and replace him with a good young 2nd baseman. The guy just can’t hit! He may have great defense but c’mon! If he doesn’t want to be here, get him outa here.
I'm probably not even going to look at that chat
there’s already enough cubs fans around misbehaving, I don’t need to see cards fans do that
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Greene and the outfield
I’m happiest about K Greene. I think that’s going to work out really well for the Birds. There is something that smacks of Cooper at 3rd or Martinez or the Big Cat at 1st, but I’m easily able to push those thoughts aside. Again, this looks like a good deal for StL.
I’m disappointed by the outfield situation. I don’t want to pin it down as particularly as CharlesB did because going into the off-season I had the impression that a number of combinations of tradable players/leftovers to man the outfield existed. I just thought that the Cards could really turn the outfield surplus into something could help the team move up a notch or two. Now, I should say that the reason for this stasis is/was/will be completely out of the control of the front office. But, it’s a disappointing [lack of] development nonetheless.
I think the conversation of whether or not Rasmus will be in StL on opening day is a valid one. I look at the outfield situation as it stands and seem to see that SOMEONE of those guys will be frustrated at season’s beginning. Ank is in- ditto Ludwick- Schumaker would seem like a lock- Mather? Rasmus? Duncan? Can we really go into the season with 6 outfielders? Particularly since I think many would agree that our pitching staff will need extra bolstering at some point?
Well… anything can happen I suppose.
Barton
Don’t forget Barton, too. He has routinely put up a .400 OBP in the minors, and would look awfully good at the top of the lineup.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
true, but...
… I’ve been under the impression that he was Memphis bound no matter what. I suppose if Duncan doesn’t do well in ST, it’s an easy and acceptable to him demotion to get his game back, or not, at AAA. Of course, Tony loves him which complicates the matter. I would think Mather would be the 1st or 2nd guy to be sent down.
Turning Schu into an infielder is interesting, but as far as playing time is concerned it would be the same to him- battle for time in the outfield vs. battle for time in the infield. Could Schu turn into the new supersub? I’d be ok with that, provided he could do SOMETHING with the glove in the infield. I’m not so sure he’d enjoy being the supersub though.
I guess Ank, Lud, and Schu as the starters- Rasmus getting lots of time as a sub and then maybe squeeze one of the final 3 or 4 guys in.
After the fallout after last season’s ST, I think they really need to get Rasmus in StL on opening day. It sounded like he was honestly depressed as last year’s ST.
by Scarecrow7775 on Jan 29, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
# 28
Rasmus has a big league number heading into ST. All the other non roster invites have offensive lineman and wide receiver numbers. And a few on the 40 man roster haven’t been “promoted” to real numbers yet.
Giving the kid a real number is a sign that the merchandise will start flowing off the shelves in FLA and a healthy Colby will be in CF out of ST.
#84
was the number he’s worn the past two seasons, which I believe is being passed down to Wallace.
So, good omen indeed on the number switch. Hopefully Wallace isn’t far behind.
by Pitchers Hit Eighth on Jan 29, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
It's a good omen for him to stay but...
Brendan Ryan had 13 all of last year (and it was saved for him when he was in the minors) and you saw where that got him. Plus, while Mo is pushing, it’s ultimately LaRussa’s decision.
I think it would probably be a good decision to start him in the minors if everyone plays like they did last season (pause the arbitration clock). I could see Rasmus going down for a little more seasoning, but not for the entire year.
At this point in time, he’s not better than Ludwick is probably a tick worse than Ankiel and is only slightly better than Schu (that will change quickly). Plus you have Mather, Duncan or possibly Barton taking regular plate appearances from him. Having him in the minors for the first 2 months is probably better for the organization long term and a wash short term.
"Live like you are going to die tomorrow. Learn like you are going to live forever." John Wooden
if ryan wasn't hurt in ST
he’d have been on the roster coming out of ST. From what Goold said recently (don’t have time to look for it) Ryan’s rib cage injury or whatever it was never really healed last year, but he’s back in playing shape now.
Agree with the conclusion, though. I really, really want to see what Mather can do for a couple of months.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Re: "...while Mo is pushing, it’s ultimately LaRussa’s decision."
Why should this be the case? I know LaRussa has some clout with his legendary (sic) status – but Mo is Tony’s boss. Seems to me that personnel decisions are the domain of the GM.
Baseball Fever.... Catch it!
Yeah
As we saw with Flat Hat last year…the GM determines who gets promoted to/demoted from the Major League roster. The field manager (Tony) simply determines how to use them once they are there.
Obviously, Mo will (and should) consult his manager and coaches for input on roster changes, but ultimately I believe it’s Mo’s call.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
So
Would I be the coolest kid on the block if I just ordered a Rasmus #28 shirt?
Not afraid to nitpick
I think so
I figure he’ll be wearing #8 starting in 2010 and for the rest of his career with the Cardinals if he does what is expected of him. I’ve got a Molina #41 t-shirt jersey that I think has some old-school cachet that the Rasmus 28 should have the same of down the road.
Barton could make the roster out of camp
Here is a senario by which Dred Barton makes the team. Ankiel traded, Mather given the old Speizio slot of backup corner infielder / part-time outfielder leaving the five outfielders as—
Rasmus
Ludwick
Skip
Barton
C. Duncan
Another way it could happen is if, again, Mather goes on the roster as an infielder and C. Duncan starts the year in Memphis on a rehab assignment. Wouldn’t shock me if C. Duncan tweaks something in spring training and needs to go to Memphis to get games under his belt.
Ank ain't getting traded
we’d probably get ripped off if we did
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
i still vote
schu and dred should share and leadoff until one gets moved
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
rasmus
i’d rather he not come up as a sub. young players need ABs to develop their approach and get their timing down. vets can (or should be able to) step in any time and nail it.
outfield market
Our ability to trade an OF for a starting pitcher is clearly undercut to a great extent by the glut of free-agent outfielders. Why would any GM offer a good young starting pitcher for Ankiel when so many players like Burrell, Abreu, Dunn, et al. were available on cut-rate deals? Even now, there are two or three OF’s you can get on a short-term deal that you probably go with before making a trade for Ankiel. Sure Ank offers better defense than any of those guys, and he has intriguing up-side potential, but not so much that you’d offer a quality player for him in a trade.
Right
and the Cards are not the only team with a surplus of OFs – Yankess, Angels, for example
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jan 29, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe this market will help us lock up Ankiel at a decent price for a few more years.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
ugh...no thanks
unless we can get him for really really cheap for no more than 3 years….i’d just as soon let him go…whether by trade or FA
I could see the need to get him really really cheap but Ugh?
Come on this is the Ricker we are talking about. He could easily if healthy be a gold glove caliber OF with 30 plus bombs.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
Ank is also represented by Scott Boras
He isn’t going to be cheap. Mather, on the other hand, will be cheap for many years, has solid defense, and 30+ HR potential. And there is this other guy we’ve got. Rolby Casmus, or something like that…Anyone know anymore about him?
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 29, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
GMTA, right?
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 30, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
yea
but we have a real cheap GG 25hr+ guy in rasmus….lets get some prospects out of ankiel, whether it be through trade or as compensation for him leaving in FA….i do not want to sign him long term unless we are trading ludwick
plus ankiel is a boras client…only do so many deals with the devil i say
The difference between us and the Yankees and Angels
Is that we have a surplus of good outfielders, while they have a surplus of aging, injured veterans and a young guys who just aren’t very good.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
another difference
its that our surplus has several players who can play CF. looking around the majors it would seem that CF would be a position of needed upgrade. its hard to tell what the market is as the only FA’s out there are jimmy and andruw jones.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Mo should do a VEB chat
I think it would be a really interesting and enlightening to see Mo answer some questions at VEB. Totally unrealistic, I know. You brought up the point that we generally have productive, well-mannered conversation (not to mention generally more insightful and well informed).
I’m happiest that we’ve improved by virtue of the fact that our young guys are a year older with a year more of experience and we haven’t significantly downgraded anywhere. Also that we haven’t made any moves that hurt the organization down the road.
I’m disappointed that we haven’t pulled the trigger on any trades yet sending off guys that don’t factor into our long term plan. Guys like Bryan Anderson, Ankiel etc. I still feel like we have enough talent that’s superfluous to winning at the big club to acquire some impact talent and I still fully expect at least one trade to happen to fill some holes.
Doubt, indulged and cherished, is in danger of becoming denial; but if honest, and bent on thorough investigation, it may soon lead to full establishment of the truth.
-Ambrose Bierce
by CorkyRasmit on Jan 29, 2009 8:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's easier
for Mo to do a chat with less informed fans. He can stick to the talking points without having his argument riddled with sabr bullets.
BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!
by spants on Jan 29, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he should take that comment as a challenge...
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 29, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't mean
that Mo is lazy. I mean that he has to walk a fine line in his public comments. He has to toe the company line. This mode of communication – spin, essentially – is less effective with people who are fairly well-versed on a topic. Besides, most fans are fairly uninformed. Like anyone shaping a message, he has to appeal to the lowest common denominator. VEB is anything but.
I most certainly think Mo could hold his own here. It would just be a lot harder while still playing his cards close to the vest.
BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!
Option 2
Maybe not a chat then… Supply him with a VEB letterhead with some of the best supplied/submitted questions from the team here and then when he gets free time let him reply on the site in a post?
It's not what you do, It's who you do...
I just don't see
Mo providing VEB readers the type of depth they seek for answers. It would be counter-intuitive to his job.
BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!
exactly, MO can't BS VEB
hence why he’ll never do it. i wish he would though, but he never will. i don’t really blame him either. you said it best, it’d be counter intuitive to his job.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I wonder if he lurks...
Mo! Are the there
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
Wow, either I made a silly typo
or the site went screwy.
I tried to type: “Are you there?”
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
i give a plus one on that
not to knock MO or chuck, but the part that stuck out the most in the OP here was
Honest inquiry and debate is what Mo offered
I dont buy for a second that there was ever any real chance for debate or really honest answers. Not to knock Mo, but he is a GM and they just cant be that honest publicly.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
(worst case senario VEB Mo chat) dear MO, thank you for your time
WHY ARE U SUCH A LOOSER?
SIGN LOWSE FOR 4 YEARS?
dONT YOU KNOW ABOUT THE FARM SYSTSEM …???
WE HAVE PARISI MAN.
ANYWAY, DO YOU EVEN use WARP3.0(Z) WHEN YOU ELAVUATE PLAYERS OR DO YOU JUST THROW DARTS AT THE BOARD WHILE YOU SIMULATANOUSLY CHATUP THE KIDS ON YOUR HARRY POTTER MESSAGE BOARD AND ON BLEAD CUBBY BLU?!?
SERIOUSLY sinng ben sheats!!!!!!!
DA GOOCH ;-)
i keed, i keed
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I thought TOLAXOR was posting something at first
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 29, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
HAY MO
EVIDENT TEH WASH M I RITE????!1
I would love to see a Mozeliak VEB chat, but it probably is unrealistic; first of all, it simply might not be deemed worth his time to have a chat with a blog (though I would disagree; SBN is a decently big deal. I’m sure that info from the chat would end up on mlbtraderumors.com and other sites and get a good amount of interweb exposure).
Also, I agree that MO would be in a tight spot; I’m sure there would be questions he just couldn’t easily answer matter-of-factly without giving up too much information. Although I bet it would be much more enjoyable for him due to the intelligent and polite pool of chat talent.
The only thing is
The site would have to announce that he was going to chat less than 2 days before he came on, so that random idiots don’t create accounts just to get on here and bash him.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 30, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
excelent idea
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 30, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Off Season
I think I’m most disappointed with the 2nd base situation. I’m not sure if they’re just hoping that Kennedy turns it around or if they’re counting on converting someone into a “backup” 2nd baseman(Ryan, Freese, Craig). I really don’t know, since they let Lopez and Miles go. If Kennedy doesn’t at least…do something….I don’t know who will get plugged in there. Don’t know if they’re thinking about Hoffpauir or Tyler Greene. I do think it will be fun to see a closer battle.
Agreed
There really wasn’t much they could do about second. Orlando Hudson at best would be a slight upgrade considering his declining defense and he would come with a hefty price tag and a loss of a draft pick. Also Kennedy is better than Miles or Lopez. As soon the D-Backs signed him, Brandon Webb’s era went up .50.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
If he can manage a BABIP
well above league-average like all but one month of last year, he won’t be a total black hole. We’re better off without two of them in the lineup like last year with Izturis at short.
I’m fine with Kennedy. Hope he has a good year entering FA with probably his last shot at signing a decent contract and socking away a great chunk of cash for his family.
If he can take a walk every now and again, life’ll be a peach.
What a difference a defensive metric makes
before the post-season defensive metrics came out, Adam Kennedy was regarded as damn near the worst position player on the team.
Now that he’s been heralded as a defensive whiz, we all love him in a Molina-if-he-can-hit-his-weight way.
Grumble.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 29, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure I buy it either
Last year’s defensive stats were the best of his career. Maybe he’s suddenly become a godlike defender, but isn’t he a little far along in his career to suddenly learn how to be the best defensive 2B in baseball?
I hope his glove will carry his value, but I suspect his UZR will come back down and everyone will grumble about how he’s failing again.
They weren't the best of his career
They were actually the 3rd best. This year he had a 10.4 UZR, In 04 he had a 15.8 UZR and in 05 he had a 14.1 UZR. This was the best in his career in terms of UZR/150. But it was a rediculous 22 UZR/150, nobody expects him to repeat that.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
i am not as easly swayed with fancy numbers like many here
i still think AK is the Sultan of Suck. i’m on the skip’s side with this one, AK has no biz still being on the team, let alone being the everyday starter at 2nd.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Just think of all the times
AK can fail to come through in the clutch in 09. Two or three chokes will turn things around real quick.
if
they get 1/2 year from ak, then when they cut him they only eat 2 mil.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
They won't do that
they won’t cut him.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 30, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Greenes?
Tyler and Khalil both have the extra e. Tyler would have to move to 2B however. Is there another MI playing Green(e) that I don’t know about?
oh
I thought Tyler Greene had no e, I was wrong ;)
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I had to look it up to be sure
It would be cool if Tyler Greene figured it out and ended up with the big club. The double play headlines would be amusing at first. But I also kinda hope it doesn’t happen, because it would get annoying. Especially when they inevitably trot out headlines like “Cardinals "Go Greene” with middle infield: Club excited about reducing stadium carbon footprint" etc etc.
its hard for me to be too dissapointed about 2b
because well there really wasnt much out there.
I was psyched up for a big upgrade at SS and that didnt exactly happen (though it could)
I guess I could be dissapointed by the fact that Kennedy was seen as someone who just shouldnt even be on the team and now he is almost the uncontested starter. We should also remember that the decent season he put up last year was the result of a platoon and a somewhat better than average defensive year.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Mo
the whole interview was odd….why were those questions chosen from among hundreds?…….how did they get past a filter?……why did he answer that way?….all very odd
On another note, I’d like to take a second to thank our daily writers/analysts…..I believe you are all doing a great job ……….not easy following lboros and carrying on the torch but you have done it well………..so, thank you for putting good quality baseball food on our table every day
+1000
I agree – the main posters give us good stuff every day! About Mo’s chat last week, whoever picked the questions wasted not only Mo’s time, but our time as readers as well. Since several comments here stated that they submitted questions that were not chosen, we know that legit questions were available to pick from, so why the deluge of idiocy?
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
they are all great, but I really like boros posts
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
LB
LB’s sub in the other day was something that pleased me greatly. all due respect for the other writers, but a dose of LB once a month or so would be great.
+1
Everyone is doing a great job, but he built the following this blog has. It would be nice to read some of his posts again at some point. Of course, maybe he’s just taking a year or so off and will be inspired to write again at a later date. Blogging can be a grind.
he posted like a week and a half ago
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I know
I was just saying it would be nice if he started posting regularly again at some point.
yeah
I could see him doing once a week at some point (hopefully)
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
i hope
every move mo makes the next 3 yrs, is with the foresight to be in a postion to make albert a competitive offer to accept an extension. we will need to build a young cost effective roster with good talent to show albert we can remain competitive. stl is currently protecting their first round picks by not signing type A’s, and not signing a fourth sp to a multi-year that would lap over into alberts’ extension. showing the willingness the play unproven players and let vets be traded away as they demand (skip, ankiel, ludwick / edmonds), or walk away as FA’s (perez, motte / izzy, springer). i like the direction the org / mo is taking, and even if albert doesn’t re-sign, we will have built a young cost effective roster which is in line with the current mlb trend. mo looks like a valuable teammate to me.
and ty for the efforts of the daily thread authors, very much appreciated.
I pray
we never see the day when the Mang is another uniform.
"The only thing that matters is that we win the World Series." - A.Pujols
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 29, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
call me naive
but I don’t have a feeling that Mang is going to break the bank, even when the time comes for contract extension. He is NOT an A-Rod type.
If there is anyone who could truly appreciate the ‘hometown discount’ generousity…moreover the — to be on a winner, you have to have good teammates and THAT takes money too — factor… it is someone like Albert.
If Albert takes too much, he will be playing with too many AAAA players; he wouldn’t like that.
i dont want to see Pujols ever play on another team
but if his salary is going to make us the Arod years Texas Rangers whats the point of keeping him around?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
We have a lot of young cost controlled players
who will make an impact in a couple of years. So we might be able to manage 25 million dollars a year for Pujols.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but what of Waino, Molina, and Ludwick?
shouldnt they all be getting raises at that point too?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yadi is signed through 2011
with a club option for 2012. I doubt he will ever be worth option price $7M/year although many would argue with me. I hope AP is wrapped up well before his 2011 option year.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
If the team sucks AP is gone
He pretty much said that he wants to win and money won’t be an issue as long as the team is competitive. If the Cards fail to make the playoffs in the next two years, AP will be checking out new cities to find a winner. In other words, Albert wouldn’t take a big contract to play for a losing franchise.
Great Post chuckb
Agree 100% about the chat. Mo goes out of his way to be as transparent as he can and it seems to just get thrown in his face. Oh well.
Biggest disappointment for me has to be not re-signing Looper. He has improved each year as a starter, eats a lot of innings and is probably better than our #4 & #5 going into spring training. It said to me that this team probably was not being built for 2009 and that this season it will be the rotation that makes my head explode.
I was happy, however, that the Cardinals missed out of Fuentes. As good as he may of been for us, I think Perez & Motte being thrown into the fire will be exciting and along with Rasmus, the most fun to watch this next hot summer
The thing that I am most impressed with
has been the FO’s stance on setting a value for a player and not budging. They offered Fuentes a contract that they thought was fair value, and wouldn’t give any more. That sort of stance was needed. It shows a willingness to spend when the situation warrants it, but not being crazy with money either.
I am a little disappointed in the lack of a trade from our surplus, but there is still time. I think that we might see something happen during ST, but then again I could be just hoping.
Thank you for rightly speaking about the chat. It was horrendous how some of the chatters acted and did make me ashamed that they were Cardinals fans. I am thankful for this forum and this area to go and have an intelligent conversation about the team I love.
+1
I’m betting the market for OFs is just awful right now, and Moz is probably frustrated with that. He’s got to be chomping at the bit to deal away some of this surplus.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 29, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
You're right. Why would anyone want Ankiel?
He’s a one-year rental and a Boras free agent after that. There is no sense in giving up a decent player/prospect plus pay Ankiel $3M in 2009 when a team can get Dunn, Abreau or Griffey on a one-year deal for barely more money and not give anyone up in exchange. Ankiel’s a better defender than all 3, but 2 of those 3 FAs are likely a better bet at the plate.
It was just a bad year to have a left-handed OF bat to spare.
But none of those guys
can even come close to playing CF. If a team really needed a CF, it could get done. The real problem is that he has to prove he is healthy.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Optimistic
Overall, I’m optimistic that this team can compete for a division title in 2009 as currently constructed. While I wish we could add a good starter to the mix via free agency or trade, I think that the current team has enough pitching to make things interesting at the top of the division.
I’m happiest with the Greene trade. We dealt a player who had no chance to be factor in our bullpen for a guy who has a tremendous amount of upside in his contract year. We were also able to upgrade the bat at the position without downgrading the defense. When you figure that Greene will play 155+ games there and Miles won’t play any at SS next year, you have to figure that we’re getting a net gain at the position.
I’m most disappointed in the fact that the front office, for whatever reason, seems disinterested in kicking the tires on every free agent on the market that could help the Cardinal ballclub in 2009. I guess that it’s possible they are out there looking at guys like Orlando Hudson, Ben Sheets, Pedro Martinez, and Ray Durham to see if they could help this club at all next year, but there haven’t been a lot of rumors of those things happening. Any significant upgrade to the rotation strengthens the team, and only Sheets would cost the Cardinals a draft pick out of the guys who are left. I hope that it’s not the pick that is keeping the Cards from signing Ben — that we be a pretty bad decision, IMO.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
lack of rumors
i was starting to wonder about this. it can’t be that they just aren’t looking. it seems to me that ever since the holliday stuff went down the rumors have been few and far between. i think Mo took control of his FO right there and then.
i think that is probably what is causing a lot of frustration for the fan base right now. lack of rumors makes it seem like Mo isn’t doing his due diligence which i’m sure he is.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
by FutureMan on Jan 29, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tough One
This is a great question. Thanks for your post today ChuckB
I would say I am happiest with the acquisition of Greene. I know he is going to annoy me with his inability to hit for average and he will strike out too much for my taste. But I think he will bring a lot more power to the middle of the field and might actually drive in a few runs for us. It will be nice to have a decent htter up the middle for the first time in a long time.
My biggest disappointment so far has been the lack of pitching improvement. I agree with the post today that Ankiel not being traded for a young pitcher is a huge disappointment, but I think it goes deeper for me. I am disappointed in the general lack of improvement. The Cardinals have lost Springer and Looper, and so far are replacing them with a left called Miller. I don’t want to count on Carp next year so I just don’t see us with enough pitching to get over the top.
I really believed coming into this offseason that we could and would improve this team. I thought we had a chance to improve our rotation, and possibly bring in a decent bullpen guy or two (although I think the young guys will make the pen better next year) But still the rotation just does not stack up against the big boys (CUBS).
So my biggest disappointment is that the pitching has not gotten better and that the gap between us and the Cubs seems to be even wider
ank
i agree about ank for pitching, however, if he were traded, that deal would immediately go into one of my biggest disappointments, even though it helped the team.
Would be sad
I think it would be sad to see Ankiel go, especially since he such a talent and has really grown up as a baseball playe rin St. Louis. But I just don’t see use keeping him past this year. His agent is still Scott Boris and Boris will demand more money from Ank then he will be worth and/or he will be worth for us. Our outfield is very crowded already and adding Rasmus this year will only crowd it more. The best thing the cardinals can do is trade from a strength and if they have one strength on this team it is there outfield depth. Skip, Lud, Ank, Joey Bombs, Rasmus, and Duncan. That’s 6 pretty quality outfielders we have, and I find it hard to believe that other teams don’t have need for a quality OF.
I really like ankiel and he is probably my favorite outfielder, but if he could get us a good young pitcher I would do it
What's the market?
“I find it hard to believe that other teams don’t have need for a quality OF”
“if he could get us a good young pitcher”
The whole issue though is what “good, young pitcher” is a team going to give up for Ankiel when that team, given Boras, is not guaranteed to sign Ankiel either.
The whole reason why people around these parts think it’s such a good idea to trade Ankiel for a “good, young pitcher” is exactly the reason why no team is going to give up a good young pitcher for Ankiel.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe
That might be true, but this is still baseball. If you haven’t noticed most teams don’t think beyond one year. Take the Brewers they traded a ton for half-a-year of CC and they had .01% chance of signing him. What you have to realize is that if Ank gives a team a chance to get better this year then they will trade a young starter who might or might not improve there team in 2 or 3 years.
So i figure we are looking for a team with no room in the rotation for a pretty good young guy, is close to making the playoffs, and needs an outfielder with power hitting ability and can play good defense
Sounds like wishful speculation to me...
When this alleged team with no foreseeable room in their rotation for a “pretty good young guy” (a premise that by itself is on shaky groud) that wants to trade that “good, young” cost-controlled pitcher for an injury-prone, power-hitting, big-armed, relatively-inexperienced, non-clutch-hitting, 1-year-away-from-free-agency, Boras-represented OF is finally identified, I’ll start paying attention to these “trade Rick for a young pitcher” musings.
Also, I cannot agree that any comparison between Milwaukee’s decision to trade prospects for CC and Rick’s situation is apt. (Unless the comparison is only to generally point out that come trade deadline time, teams in the race will often trade “prospects” for rentals – but even that point is not apt because it is not trade deadline time yet and it goes without saying that Rick (though my favorite current player on the Cards roster) is not even close to being as valuable as CC Sabathia).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
well said
Ank is worth more to the team than he would be worth in a trade. I
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jan 29, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don't believe...
the gap has gotten wider between us and the cubs. I feel the Cubs have made some moves that will have a larger impact to the team than just the loss of that player (Derosa, Wood). I thought they made a good move in acquiring Olson, but then negated that move by acquiring Heilman. Letting Wood go and replacing him with Kevin Gregg was a horrible decision as well (even though Gregg will not likely be the closer, it did cost them Ceda who was once considered to be off limits in a Brian Roberts deal which would have made them UNREAL last season). The bullpen is not as strong, despite the emergence of Smardzija. They went from possibly having a shut down bullpen from the 7th-9th innings to having a question mark without improving the team in other areas (they would need 3 solid innings from the pen every time Harden starts).
The Cards youth gets 1 more year of experience and the team will continue to play as a team, this time with some arms in the pen who can get some people out.
Good Point
That is actually a great point because I completely forgot that they got rid of Wood and “replaced” him with Gregg. I think that will be a huge loss for them. Last year was the first time in years that the Cubs had someone at the end of the game who could actually close for them. This year I think the bullpen does have a chance of holding them back just far enough that we have a legit chance of staying with them. However that rotation is just loaded. In order for the Cardinals to compete right now with the Cubs, we will have to hope for some injuries to the top of that rotation.
I don't know if you heard
But they also signed a guy who had a 1.000’ish OPS last year. Not that I think he can stay healthy, but still, it’s not like it wasn’t a major signing. If he hits like he did in 2008 and only plays half the season, he’ll probably be worth the $10 million they’re paying him per year.
I couldn't agree more, Jumsy
I have been scratching my head all offseason about the Cubs. Dealing Derosa to save about $2.5M over Miles is insane. Not to mention that Ceda and Pie stalled deals in past off-seasons for that would have brought WAY bigger returns than Olsen and Gregg is nuts. So, to essentially deal Cedeno and Pie (who they gave up for Olsen) in exchange for a cast-off middle reliever/guy not good enough to start in SEATTLE (Heilman) blows my mind. In their defense, at least they’ll have a free-swinging Soriano for 100 games a season clogging up their lead-off spot for the next century at a billion dollars a year. That’s a plus, right?
is greene a decent hitter up the middle?
i thoguht the knocks on him were he didnt hit for average and didnt walk or get on base.
I thought he was homer or nothing pretty much. I really dislike that.
im expecting a goofy looking Izturis with more power
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
The 'fan' was wrong but so was Mo
In no way do I condone the manner of the question put to Mo by that supposed fan, and while appreciating that Mo is under no obligation to be involved in such a forum, at the same time I felt the way Mo answered was poor for someone in his position who should be used to dealing with awkward questioning.
Underlying the moronic way the guy posed his question, were legitmate concerns that a lot of us who follow the Cardinals have about, for example, the way the powers that be seem to say one thing at one time, then almost the complete opposite the next, often within a few days..
And that leads me to my biggest disappointment of the offseason so far. How many things have the club said they are trying/going to do and then not followed through on ? I’m not talking about things like not signing Fuentes – he wanted to play in California and got his wish – or the Holliday trade not coming to fruition – way too costly for the likely improvement it would bring.
No, I’m referring to the fact Mo and Mr DeWitt they say they are commited to improving the club but haven’t done much to actually do so. Unlike the idiot who posted that rubbish in Mo’s chat, most of us are intelligent enough to know when we are being spun.
Of course I understand that the club has to keep an eye on the budget, but I dont see adding guys like Royce Ring as a good use of resources, nor is it showing much commitment to improvng the club. Why let guys like Ron Vilone and Russ Springer go only to replace them with guys with similar or worse stats ?
I’d like to see an effort to trade from the outfield surplus – something I really do think Mo and his bioys are tying to do – along with some of the prospects (guys like Bryan Anderson and Jon Jay who are likely to be blocked for the forseeable future), in an attempt to add a decent back of the rotation starter, or a 2nd bagger/utility infielder who could give Kennedy some competition and give some cover for Glaus in case the kids struggle while he’s out.
I’d love to see Ben Sheets in red and white. Even with his injury history, if Kyle Lohse is worth 40 mill for 4 years – and I’m quite happy with that deal – surely Sheets is worth 18 – 20 mill over 2 years ? The guy has an ace quality arm, and pitched nearly 200 innnings last year. No one in St Louis seemed concerend about injury history when signing Carp to his extension, something most of us fans, myself included, were pleased to see when it happened. None of the other free agents come close to his ability, and he might never come this cheap again.
The other benefit of sgning someon like Sheets is the message it sends not just to the fans, but also to a certain Mr Pujols. Showing the best hitter in the game that you are commited to winning surely will help re-sign the great one. It would makle me sick to see him playing in another uniform.
I’d also like to see Chad Cordero added to the pen. The guy should be sign-able cheaply fo an incentive laden contract, and if he gets back to his old form, he’ll be a great late innings guy even if he doesnt close. If he does close, he’d be a quality stand in while the likes of Perez and Motte learn their craft and develop their secondary pitches.
Whats been good so far this offseason ? I like the Khalil Greene trade a lot. I think he should tun out to be a real bargain. 2008 looks like a complete abberation in terms of his stats; he might not hit 27 bombs again, but he should be a vast improvemnt over Iz2 offensively, and he’s no mutt defensively either.
With better luck on the injury front, the the team should be able to win as many, or even a few more games, than last year. The problem is that with the improvements they’ve made this offseason, – that rotation is just sick – that might not be enough to keep us in touch with the Cubs. I hope I’m wrong and, regardless of my criticisms, I’ll be cheering for the Cardinals through thick and thin…
The Gunners.... The Cardinals...
I Bleed Red & White !!!
Could be worse
Years ago I latched onto Portsmouth, the season they got promoted into the Premiership. It has been a pretty fun ride but good golly, do they ever suck this year. I fully expect Pompey to be relegated.
I think a lot of us have a measure of affection for Arsenal after Hornby’s Fever Pitch. Great book.
by Youneverknow on Jan 29, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, Life long Gooner here...
For better or worse !!
Not a great season so far; we need to add a couple or three quality players to the squad if we want to be able to compete with the Man U’s and Chelsea’s. I’d bring back Thierry if he’s as out of favour/unhappy as I’ve heard he is with Barca, and add a midfielder at least.
Otherwise I cant see us wining anything this year…
The Gunners.... The Cardinals...
I Bleed Red & White !!!
I too feel embarrased to call my self a cards fan after that debacle of a chat
This is cardinals baseball not the yankees or red sox. We are supposed to be educated, civil, and able to understand the nuiances of the game and the business.
I wouldn’t trade the last 10 years of our team/ownership for any other team in the league. Also I feel very optimistic about the future. People should relax and focus on all the young talent we have accumulated. This is gonna be a great year.
I am happiest that El Hombre got his elbow fixed.
I am most dissapointed in all the dooms day folks who have nothing better to do but be an arm chair GM/Owner.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
yeah I don't get it
why are people so pissed off when we are ranked #2 in getting the most value of wins per dollar? it’s insanity
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think Pujols got it "fixed"
just cleaned up. I think the big issue is still there
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
he just had a nerve moved so he wasn’t in pain all the time
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
i was just going to say the very same thing
think of his elbow like a rusting fender, and instead of replacing the entire fender, you put bondo on it & some new paint & BAM! new fender. uh, sorry, no you don’t have a new fender. the problem is still there, you just hid it from everyone’s eye’s for the time being.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
i concur
well-said chuck. Reading those sophomoric comments had me cringing also. I think Mo showed some class in responding while not stooping to the same level of idiocy and disrespect. So far, I like Mo’s patience, and I’m hoping upon hope that it’ll pay off. But the pessimistic voices in my head keep telling me that he just got lucky last year.
He’s in a tough situation… stuck between DeWitt’s tightening wallet, Luhnow’s ambitious need for his prospects to get playing time, and LaRussa’s now-or-never, i’m-too-old-to-be-patient situation. Adding the fan base to this swirling mix is lofty, if not noble.
Someone please reassure me that Mo isn’t in over his head.
I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.
I agree with chuckb
about the disappointment. Trading Ankiel for a young starter (Jonathan Sanchez?) would be a terrific move, even though I wouldn’t like seeing him in another uniform.
Happiest about not overpaying for a closer. Hopefully that won’t change in the next six weeks.
"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by Futility Infielder on Jan 29, 2009 10:28 AM EST reply actions
Rolen for Glaus...that was brilliant.
Signing Lohse on the cheap and then locking him up for a few years…that was prudent.
Not trading Rasmus for Holliday that showed moxy That would have at least shut up all the naysayers complaining about a big move needing to be made.
i like Mo and there is nothing wrong with shopping on a budget. Now lets play ball lest I get all “Travesty of injustice” on ya all.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
The off-season ain't over yet...
There are scads of free-agent OFs available who will probably have to take one-year deals to get a job, making the trade market for OFs “soft” in January.
I’m of the opinion that the club we take to Jupiter will not be the club we take north for Opening Day! The Cubbies have issues, too.. like who the heck will play CF? What’s the over/under on Milton Bradley’s next explosion/injury? And you’ve replaced Mark DeRosa with… Aaron Freaking Miles??? (I love Grit, but he’s a lesser player than DeRosa.) And wha’hoppens when Carlos Marmol’s arm implodes from too many innings in winter ball and the WBC?
Nobody else is signing free-agent pitchers, either… Ben Sheets will not find The Ballpark At Arlington to his liking (if he even signs with the Rangers)… patience, patience, patience!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
The player mentioned in my signature...
…will be the Cubs opening day centerfielder, and will probably platoon with Reed Johnson unless he shows he can hit left handed pitching. I also think that Gathwright is going to get a shot at being the 4th outfielder since he can play all three positions out there while swinging a broomstick at the plate.
I agree that Sheets would be crazy to sign a contract with the Texans — especially a one year or two year deal, because his stats are going to inflate from pitching there and he won’t be as marketable in his second go-round with free agency.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Starting Rotation
One thing that I think a lot of us are overlooking, myself included, is that the front office may be waiting to see how things shake out with the young pitchers in spring training. It’s been well documented that Duncan was impressed with Mortensen and McClellan last spring training, and he probably hasn’t seen much of Jess Todd at all since he made such a mad dash through the minors last season. I do wonder if those three guys and Mitchell Boggs are going to get put through the ringer in Spring Training against good hitters to see if they can compete against big leaguers. If they don’t work out then the front office may be tasked with trading an outfielder or third baseman (less likely now with Glaus injured) or signing a free agent to shore up the back end of the rotation.
This strategy will also give them a look at what Carpenter might be able to give them over the course of the ‘09 season. If he’s near 100%, the team could do without signing a big arm like Sheets and go into the season with the present stable of starters, and look to make a deal at the deadline for another starter if the need arises. I can’t say that I find a lot of fault in this strategy since it worked out really well for us last season.
Hell, Sheets may be better off waiting until spring training to sign because of the inevitable injury to some team’s 1, 2, or 3 starter, which would give him a bit more leverage.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Good point
bq.One thing that I think a lot of us are overlooking, myself included, is that the front office may be waiting to see how things shake out with the young pitchers in spring training.
That could be the case. If so that shows an interesting amount of foresight by the FO. I’m not particularly bullish on Mortensen right now, and I’m not sure McClellan can start given his history of arm troubles, but I’d be willing to eat crow if one of them shows up dealing here in a few weeks.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
If the Cubs keep adding Aaron Heilmans to their roster...
… we’re right back in this thing.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
Is anyone else looking forward to
Yadi’s and Albert’s first AB’s against Heilman in the 7th or 8th inning of a one run ballgame?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Hadn't seen that trade
Maybe the fact that Olson was part of it will stifle a little of the gnashing of teeth about Peavy to Chicago out there.
Garland
Looks like the D-backs just signed Garland to a one year+option deal.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/hot_stove/y2008/index.jsp
I wasn’t entirely against getting Garland, but I could also see the downside of him.
Did anyone else see
that our old friend, Mike Maroth, has joined Matt Clement up North? Both have signed Minor League contracts with the Blue Jays, per MLB.com.
I am disappointed
in chuckb’s spending 9 paragraphs on a holier than thou sermon. The one problem with this site is the seemingly large contingent of the commentariat with a disposition of a 75 yr old grandmother. Everyone is simply too easily offended and that’s too bad. There are bad apples in every fanbase – tough sugar if some of them got their comments posted.
Nonetheless, I do agree it would have reflected better on the fan base as a whole if questions had concerned more pressing matters rather than so many that had a deragatory tone, but them’s the breaks when you go live on a forum.
I would also say that everyone’s wish to trade ankiel for a young pitcher, while good from a strict baseball performance/ salary/ years under control criteria, it fails miserably from a business stand point in that Ankiel is the #2 draw on the team. With the tightening economy, who will bring mo fans in? Ankiel on a daily basis or someone like Sonnanstine every fifth day?
by bagofballs on Jan 29, 2009 11:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
BEN SHEETS
will “bring mo fans in”!
And my grandma would kick your grandma’s butt.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Easily offended?
I respectfully disagree with your assertion that we are too easily offended. I wasn’t offended by anything that was said in that chat, but I’m sure that Mozeliak was — to the point where I couldn’t blame him if he won’t reach out to the fan-base in the future. I was more disappointed in the tone that the chat took, because it disabled the opportunity for any productive discourse to take place.
I don’t think that anyone here is easily offended, we just prefer to conduct our arguments in a fashion that creates productive conversation. Negative comments and making assumptions about someone else’s character does nothing to provide good debate and turns any good argument away from standards and allows it to devolve into a personal emotional encounter.
There is such a thing as showing some tact and doing your homework before posting ridiculous accusations about someone without having any evidence to back it up. Personal attacks like the ones made on Mo by members of the Cardinal community do nothing to help the Cardinal ballclub and doing things like that in a public forum also give the entire fan-base a black eye. The Cardinal fan-base is thought of in most circles to be an educated, passionate group. That’s what VEB is all about. Passionate, educated fans discussing baseball in an intelligent and non-emotional manner. Confusing that with “being easily offended” is an affront to the majority of this community and is a short-sighted view of what our community is all about.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 29, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If its not blatent
trolling its main goal seems to insult the very people who write and read this blog. Comments like the following seems to imply not constructive criticism but instead destructive and inflammatory criticism.
… “in chuckb’s spending 9 paragraphs on a holier than thou sermon” and
“The one problem with this site is the seemingly large contingent of the commentariat with a disposition of a 75 yr old grandmother.”
If he doesn’t like the writing or readers’ posts, he is welcome to start his own “bagofballs” blog.
I don't think he dislikes the blog
he just dislikes when the soap box gets out and as he put it there is a ‘holier than thou’ tone.
He doesn’t have to agree with chuck and the rest of his post was an interesting take.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 29, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe not
but the “75 yr old grandmother” and “holier than thou” comments also imply that civility should be equated to being a pansy. I agree with chuckb 100% because what makes this blog so fun to read is that fact that people are generally civil with each other and don’t play juvenile name calling. Like I said, disagreement should be welcomed but there is a civil way to express that. Insulting commentary and name calling should be left at home.
no, not being a pansy
but one might say that
guttless! Cowardly!
and
maggots on the face of society
might be just a little bit over the top
i mean as I said before I contemplated writing to MO to apologize for these people and for all of us, but when I read this post I rolled my eyes just a bit (and I really like HC, and thats not a knock)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
It is absolutely gutless
when someone takes cheap shots at anyone, Cards’ GM or otherwise, and then hides behind the anonymity of some name like “I hate Bill DeWitt.” A little over the top? I disagree vehemently. If that coward had any guts whatsoever, he’d have at least attached his real name to that shit!
And if bagofballs thinks that I have the disposition of a 75 year old grandmother, he misunderstands entirely. I have little patience for idiots like that guy. He is a maggot and it seems as though bagofballs is the one too easily offended by my referring to him as such.
by chuckb on Jan 29, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol at turning it around
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
i guess what im thinking
is I figured we all just had these little mental filters that tell us guys like that are morons and to just ignore them.
Who cares what a guy like that thinks?
Hes probably some 14 year old kid or something.
Im more annoyed that people actually gave those questions to Mo to answer, or that he chose them over baseball discussion.
I dont know what the actual numbers would be but I would bet the vast majority of them were real baseball questions not inane moronic jibba jabba.
and secondly who DIDNT see this coming?
We all know there are lots of immature people on the internet, but why respond to the trolling?
What good is that?
Instead of some idiot knowing what they wrote EVERYONE sees it and the guy can brag now.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
maybe he got a kick out of the whole thing
and chose those questions to poke fun at them?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 30, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
yep
a lot of these ___’s like to hide behind screen names.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 30, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
The Mang draws fans
Wainwright and Molina draw fans. We will be fine getting attendance w/o Ank. He’s only been on the ML roster as a hitter for two seasons, and it’s not like after he came up the team’s revenue got an enormous boost. Guys like Rasmus and Wallace would more than make up for the drop in attendance, if there is any at all if/when Rick leaves. If we want to keep attendance up, you know what we need to do? Win. And do you know how we can win? SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 29, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not easily offended
I just dislike dumbshits.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Well...
There are two types of people I can’t stand the first is people who are intolerant of other cultures and the second type of people I can’t stand are the Dutch. They are just weird…
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
doh
I’m part Dutch! but really I’m just a mutt
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
What about zee faja?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 29, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
???
It fails miserably from a business stand point in that Ankiel is the #2 draw on the team.
Do you have some kind of market research that shows that a sizeable chunk of the Cardinals fan base comes to games to see Rick Ankiel play? I was always under the impression that Eckstein and Rolen were major fan-faves, but they were dealt or allowed to walk and the team still drew extremely well. I don’t think most members of Cardinal Nation are members because of players…they are members because they love the St. Louis Cardinals.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
To say that the front office doesn't care about winning...
is just disingenuous. These people care about winning more than probably just about anyone in the Cards fanbase.
I don’t think most individuals know how much the front office works year around. I have a friend in the Royals front office and he puts in some crazy hours! He was telling me that he had been up 36 hours straight preparing for the Rule V draft. The Rule V draft! He also slept about 4 hours total for the 3 days he was at the winter meetings a couple years ago. This job is their lives almost 24/7. I am sure the Cardinals front office is not much different. To think that these people don’t take their jobs seriously or don’t care is flat out wrong.
i would have laughed if they just ended up passing like us ;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Happiest, Biggest Disappointment
Happiest: Not biting on an expensive closer. I truly believe Perez or Motte could be solid MLB closers for awhile, but more importantly, that their floor is league-average closing for a year or two until batters figure them out. By then, at least we’ve fully assessed some cheap closing options that had potential, and worst case, we dip into the FA or trade bin then.
Biggest Disappointment: Ankiel not being traded. And I agree with Chuck that a young starter would be nice, but I am sad that we haven’t been able to trade him for any other piece that would help our team beyond 2009 (e.g. MI help, a package including a top-line reliever, some young players with upside, etc.).
I'm happiest
about not giving in to the temptation to sign a closer for big bucks. I am not totally convinced that we still won’t have issues there, but I would rather spend the money on the rotation. It would be folly to give more money to Fuentes than it would cost to sign Sheets. Plus, I think our in-house closer options are nearer to being ready than our starter options.
I am least happy that we haven’t done anything with the OF surplus, particularly Schumaker. If he is on the roster coming out of ST, he will be the lead-off hitter and Rasmus will be in AAA. I think Colby is such a significant upgrade defensively in CF that he could make a 2+ win difference just with his glove. Plus, if he bats lead-off then that allows Ank or Lud to play LF. I doubt Schu’s value is particularly high, but it isn’t going to get any higher. I would settle for a low-level pitching prospect for him.
I don’t think the current glut of OFs is keeping Ank’s trade value down, it is the injury. Ankiel is at least a passable CF, and I don’t think any of the guys still on the market can really fill that need. I would be OK with Ank in LF, or if he can be traded in ST or early in the year once he proves his health, a Duncan/Mather platoon could be OK as well.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Albert Pujols says...
“Signg Beng Sheets Mang”
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
Actually, Albert Pujols said
“Sign Manny Ramirez Mang”.
Mo said, “We’re not interested”.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 29, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
wtf Mang?
Disregarding all the baggage… How in the hell do we fit ManRam into our OF?
I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.
If you were Albert
why would you stay in St. Louis beyond your current contract?
You can be in just as much contention every year in New York, Boston, Chicago or LA and those organizations won’t nickle and dime there way to getting elite players to play around you.
I’m sure he’s getting frustrated that the best talent they’ve brought into the organization in the last 4 years offensively was swapping a 3B with shoulder problems for another 3B with shoulder problems.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 29, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We can only hope
that Raz and the Walrus become top-tier types of players. That way Albert stays happy for having the talent he needs around him, and we don’t lose BIG money to FA’s.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 29, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
by moving anyone else to make room.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
i should change this to by moving anyone else not in the long term plans
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I have been traveling the last couple of days so I may have missed it but
Are you referring to his actual comments. Pretty funny. We should hold onto these to remind him when he comes up for free agency:
"Maybe St. Louis doesn’t have the money to sign him, but he could give them a discount because St. Louis is a great city that supports its players," Pujols said.
to be fair
Pujols has already signed for a discount here.
though I woudlnt mind another one ;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks Chuck for addressing this
I too read the Mozeliak chat and had nearly the exact same thoughts. I don’t post often here in the off-season, but I read everyday. I often take part in the game threads during the season though. I love the intelligent baseball conversation here. It is some of the best I have found! However it has spoiled me a little. I used to enjoy reading Matthew Leach’s mailbags on the mothership, but now they are just yesterday’s (or last week’s) VEB postings reran. Not to take away from what Leach does, but his mailbags just aren’t the same now. Whenever I go the the other chats with Mo, Lunhow, LaRussa, etc., I am constantly reminded of how great things are here at VEB. Keep up the good work!
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
my off-season scorecard: sorta ok I guess
in October they were…
wishes, with venom:
- never see Izzy on the mound again (for me this goes back quite a while)
- please DON’T re-sign the poisonous Felipe Lopez
- replace Izturis
- replace Kennedy
wishes without venom:
- trade Ankiel for something good
- keep Aaron Miles (as a back-up player only)
- keep Looper (dependable, competitor)
vaunted wishes, little hope:
- go with the kids (notably Rasmus, and the pitchers)
- new namager… Matheny? Oberkfell? even Oquendo
Most disappointing
1) We haven’t signed Ben Sheets.
2) We haven’t addressed the Left side of the bullpen. Trevor Miller does not address the problem we had last year. Miller only replaces Ron Villone! And oh yeah, the guy I wanted us to get…the guy the Cardinals apparently wanted to get during the season…is still out there! Why Wil Ohman remains unsigned is a mystery to me.
3) Actually, all three of the players I targeted for the Cards are still out there: Hudson, Sheets, & Ohman. Actually, that they are still out there is the most frustrating part. If they had signed elsewhere, I could forget about it. But no…there they sit…tantalizingly out of reach.
What I’m most happiest about is all the trades we didn’t make. I wouldn’t have been happy to see Ludwick or Rasmus go for Holliday. And I wouldn’t have been happy to see Rick Ankiel elsewhere.
Sign Ben Sheets.
-- GOOCH
as i was read that chat the other day
i found myself hoping that none of the VEBers were behind those comments….because that would have really tarnished this site for me….i’m glad you addressed it chucky(its ok if i call you chucky, right)…i’m not naive enough to think that all fans are socially acceptable humans, but that chat was just overkill
best thing for me: this one comes with a bit of an * because we still don’t know the PTBNL…but the khalil greene trade could be golden…he may not hit as well as he did in 07, but he will certainly be better than last year….and even if he’s only in the middle of those two extremes, with his glovework,he is a very nice upgrade over iz2 without a lot given up
worst thing: this is more of a personal vendetta, because everytime i think of the 7.5 mil we owe piniero, i get nauseous, and i’m tired of getting nauseous…i wish mo could have found some way to unload him, even if it meant eating half his contract….if we could have done that, we would have 3mil+ more to spend on someone like sheets
good stuff chuck
i really hope Mo does the chats again but i don’t think its going to happen. it really ticks me off when a couple ingrates ruin things for everyone else. like you said, i’m pretty sure there aren’t too many GM’s out there that take time to interact with the fans the way Mo does.
As for moves:
Happiest: i’m with the others that liked the greene deal. there is still a chance that the price will be high considering who the ptbnl is. very good chance that it is someone invited to camp and there are obviously some very good players there.
Most disappointing: that we didn’t trade an outfielder. i don’t necessarily think it needed to be rick but we needed to move somebody. i used to be pretty staunchly in the “trade rick” camp but now i’m thinking about it a different way.
the logjam in the outfield isn’t going to go away anytime soon as we all know this farm system is churning out OF’s. there is a good chance we have the same problem next offseason and its becoming apparent that we aren’t going to get even value back for rick. i’m starting to think that we get the best value back for him by keeping his offense to help mask colby’s probable rough start. if he develops a market by the trade deadline we can trade him then or we keep him hope he plays his way into the a type A or B. he just barely missed the type B rating in 2008 and that was with a crappy second half. letting him walk at the end of 2009 should not only a spot for 2010 but it should also bring back some value.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
you know, futureman
I guess that’s my point. Mo went out of his way to interact w/ the fans and explain his point of view, knowing he would take tough questions. But a few ingrates may cause him to never do this again — and who could blame him? When we reject someone’s generosity (and then surely some will bitch about his “hiding” from the fanbase in the future) we better damned well at least respect their time and the fact that they’ve been generous with it. We don’t all have to agree w/ the direction the organization’s taking, but we ought to at least show enough courtesy to another human being to respect their opinions.
Clap clap clap
For that screed.
I’m pretty pleased with the way the winter’s gone for the Birds. I’m a devout Khalil Greene believer and think both he and the fans will have a great time this year. Trever Miller was a good mod-risk/high-reward sign. I would’ve preferred a little more quality depth behind him at LHRP due to the injury potential—I’ve liked Dennys Reyes as a situational lefty for a while and am unconvinced that Ringe and Manning are adequate.
It would’ve been nice to have moved one of the outfielders for cost-controlled pitching but understand that the return value wouldn’t be acceptable in a market where Pat the Bat signs the contract he did and quality FA OF’s remain in free agency.
I thought we dodged a bullet missing out on Fuentes (great pitcher, but a reliever isn’t worth a first rounder) and have come to accept that the front office has decided that the talent available in the first round of next year’s draft is strong enough to write off all the Type-A’s who were offered arby. So no Ben Sheets, no Braden Looper II: Now Featuring Strikeouts in Juan Cruz. I’m fine with that.
It’s not a disappointment, but the only thing that I’m seriously uncomfortable with is Chris Carpenter’s health. If he pitches healthy all season I could see us winning games in bunches like in 2004 when our rotation didn’t look all that hot on paper. (I remember telling a friend that year that our poker hand didn’t have an ace but a nice run of kings that’ll win you most of the games you play.) If he’s out, I can see Lohse and Kal-El having a hard time pretending to pick up the slack and another year like 2007, where it falls on Wagonmaker every five days to stop the bleeding. It stinks that Carp’s that critical, it’d be nice if signing Sheets would guarantee that he wouldn’t be, but have to rely on the FO’s assessment of his health—which we’ll all be in a better position to judge a few months from now.
i saw that too, and actually thought about writing Mo to apologize for us Cards fans...
but was too lazy and thought it wasnt feasible.
I think something like this happened years ago when Dave Duncan came onto Cardstalk or something (I think in 2003) before I visited there.
What kind of annoys me the most is who was the joker giving MO these questions?
Most of them were worthless anyway.
I asked about 8 specific (maybe too specific?) baseball questions and there were only like 15 answered and most were crap.
and who the heck let that guy ask TWO questions?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
I think sophomoric is giving them too much credit
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 2:44 PM EST reply actions
Freshmanic?
8Gradeic?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Anybody see this?
“I came up here and just tried to do what I did down there,” [Jason Motte] said. “That’s what Tony and [Dave] Duncan told me. Don’t go and change anything. Don’t do anything different. If it worked down there [in the Minors], just keep doing it. So, I came up here and pretty much did what I did down there all year. I just tried to go right at guys, and that’s about it.”
(From the story about closers)
That sound you hear is Anthony Reyes kicking his cat.
by liam on Jan 29, 2009 2:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
lol
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
ok, onto the best and worst of the offseason
im happy the kids are going to get a chance
im happy we PROBABLY wont be wasting our time and money on non difference makers like Looper, Wolf, Garland et all…
im happy we didnt trade Ludwick for Holliday
im dissapointed we arnt reallly trying to make this team a real winner
im dissapointed we havent SIGNED BEN SHEETS or another difference making starter (sheets is the only one left)
im dissapointed we havent really addressed the top LHRP
im dissapointed we havent traded Ank for SP (but can you blame us with Dunn, Manny, and Abreu all still available on the FA pile with prices dropping every day?)
tbh Im starting to think we should sign Dunn for cheap and go into the season with Dunn, Ank, and Ludwick and try to trade Ank a little later when there arnt so many OF available.
Dunn, for all his faults is a force in the lineup
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
sorry for so many posts
im thankful that our farm system is getting better every year
im thankful for Colby, Wallace, Perez, and Motte
im thankful we are making a serious effort internationally
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
As interesting and inflated as Dunn's stats are
Most Strikeouts in MLB history last year kind of turns me off from him.
i dont think his stats are inflated
though Id be open to seeing some facts or stats that would prove me wrong on that, im no expert.
I know he plays in a small stadium that inflates HRs, but Dunn isnt the “just over the fence HR guy”
his K’s dont bother me too much because he walks so often so he still gets on base. Yeah, hes no good at sac flying or situational hitting but he isnt the end all be all.
Id be more worred about the K’s from Greene, who K’s a lot, doesnt hit for average and doesnt walk.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I know what you mean
but at least K. Greene is not a -22.6 fielder like Dunn. The dude needs to be a DH.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
nah, he just makes it more interesting
;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
he keeps ERA down in a bad way
is what they say about me on MLB08 RTTS
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 29, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Reynolds?
Dunn did not break the MLB record last year. His teammate in Arizona, Mark Reynolds, did break it. Maybe that’s where the confsion is coming from. Dunn “only” struck out 164 times, his lowest number in 5 seasons.
by southsidepat on Jan 29, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, his strikeouts went down...
And he puts up 40 homers, 100 walks like clockwork.
But his disliking of baseball clearly went up in 2008, so it’s pretty much a wash IMHO.
Proof?
You have no objective proof that that statement has any merit whatsoever.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Dunn gained like 4 pounds last year
he clearly hates baseball.
And America.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jan 29, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm reasonably certain...
…that Mr. Dunn spent last week breaking every single bat he could find and kicking puppies, all while peeing on pieces of apple pie and American flags. He then found his mom and hit her with a mallet. He didn’t swing it though, because that reminds him of baseball, which he hates.
The week before he went to a local pitching/hitting/training center (a la Balls and Strikes if you’re from the St. Louis area) and punched every single person there merely for playing and liking baseball. He then took all of the folding chairs out because, well, that’s what you do when you’re mad. Right?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
LOL
He then found his mom and hit her with a mallet. He didn’t swing it though, because that reminds him of baseball, which he hates.
Terrible, but hilarious
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 29, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
this is getting rec'd to green I hope
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
ROTFLMAO
Funniest quote of the day…clearly
by DisplacedCardsFan on Jan 31, 2009 4:46 AM EST up reply actions
That may have been a joke...
…Mattybobo, was that a joke?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
lol
proof is because the Blue Jays say so ;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
Inflated? The guy hits the ball a country mile. That ability transfers pretty well I’d say. He draws a ton of walks because he’s amazingly patient. That ability definately transfers. Adam Dunn would put up those numbers if he played at the bottom of Lake Baikal.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
you bring up a good point
while this is probably the best time to trade ank in terms of his situation….its the worst possible time due to the economy destroying the big deals that manny, dunn, and abreu would have gotten in other times…teams can wait it out and get a proven slugger on the cheap without giving up any prospects…maybe come the deadline, if we are out of it or if rasmus looks like he’s ready to take over, we can trade ank for the pitching we all crave
this may be the dumbest idea of all time
but IF we did sign Dunn (of course for cheap) we could go into the year with an OF of Dunn, Ank, Luddy
we could keep Colby in AAA for half a year (seasoning, might get him over early season struggles, and to help with arb clock?) then we trade Ank to a team who needs an OF.
not only will demand likely be up at the deadline we would have deprived a team of Dunn in the process ;-)
plus having a guaranteed bopper like Dunn in the line up early in the year might offset the loss of Glaus moreso that before.
again its just a crazy theoretical pipe dream deal, obviously never going to happen. but interesting to think about.
i suppose we would have no lead off hitter though.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
a pre-emptive strike of sorts
i like it…dunn has a high obp…he could bat leadoff…i bet he would lead the league in leadoff HRs
I Mo does this, he would be a diabolical genius
it would be worth it
just to see the fan/ mlb establishment fall out
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, leadoff is the problem
if skip is on the bench and rasmus is in memphis, who leads off? i don’t want kennedy or spicoli there.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
Dunn and OBP's
Adam Dunn will have a higher OBP than Skip Schumaker, mark it down. That’s really all you need to hit leadoff. If Dunn landed here (which won’t happen), than hitting him leadoff may actually be a great idea in a completely diabolical way. Would TLR do it? Uh, no. But it would be an interesting experiment.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Get Dunn to start fielding practice grounders NOW. Uggla 2.0.
Could an infield of Albert, Dunn, Greene and Glaus set a record for team infield homers in a year?
we could call up Colby to play "forth baseman"
or “deep Edmonds” about 10 feet behind Dunn at 2nd, and Luddy and Ank could cover the OF
(JK, I loved Jimmy)
p.s. arnt you glad I didnt say Long Jimmy?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't notice that
I’ve always been pretty skeptical of the whole idea. I dunno… I just don’t buy that it’s that easy to change a guy’s position. Furthermore, there’s till the whole platoon problem with Skip. Now if Rasmus could play second base…
I’ve long been excited that he could become our version of Grady Sizmore. But what if he became our version of Chase Utley? Man, the Cardinals can accomplish anything if I put my mind to it!
Didn't you know that...
Oquendo is a miracle worker. He can take a huge pile of chicken youknowwhat and turn it into a great infielder. Supposedly.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
so did MO in the chat
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
It may
Could you imagine someone trying to take out Adam Dunn?
I mean, would you like to slide into something like this:
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Dunn at 2B would be hillarious
just have him use his whole body to block the ball
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
it would be hillarious
to have Adam Dunn as a leadoff hitter… and it would work. not to mention, it would work even better with pitcher batting 8th, no?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the thing...
…It WOULD work. In fact, it would be awesome. However, he’d strike out one time in a 4-2 game with a guy on first in the 6th inning and the BoB would lose and therefore the less sophisticated fans in St. Louis would flip shit.
“You CAN’T do THAT! He’s clearly BAD at baseball and doesn’t care about the team b/c all of his HR’s are SELFISH!!! Blarg…We need Aaron Miles back LolZ!!!*”
*I’m reasonably certain this is how the young’uns talk these days. Right? Maybe. I don’t know.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
from winter warm up
Do you want Manny ?
“BOOOOOOOOOOO”
did you want Miles back?
“YEAAAAAAAAAAH, WOOT, CATCALL”
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
In the bizarro world where we actually sign Manny Ramirez
I would be in a difficult position… I used to really hate Manny because I thought he was annoying and showboated too much, and his defense is kinda not great. But darn it, I thought his highfive with the fan over the fence was hilarious. Oh, and he’s an amazingly good hitter. I’m pretty sure if he was a Cardinals I’d fall in love with him within a month.
He also stopped trying for the Red Sox to force a trade
Doesn’t get much more scumbaggy than that, if you ask me.
I don't like this idea...
…Sure, he may have forgot which leg to hobble on, and he may have not played particularly hard in teh O, but the fact is the man played 22 of 24 team games leading up to the trade and put up this line:
.347/.473/.587/1.060
Sure, he may have been dogging it a bit, but he was flat out raking. How is this any different than before, other than him being dickish instead of eccentric? I really don’t buy all of this “distraction in the clubhouse,” or “misleading stats” or whatever.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
That was supposed to say "In the OF"
…not in teh O. I don’t know what the heck that means.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
He refused to play those two games, citing a "knee injury"
That included a big July 25 1-0 loss to the Yankees at Fenway. It was enough to get Francona publicly pissed off and questioning whether he was sitting out as a form of protest.
So then the Red Sox ordered an MRI on his knee, but he “couldn’t remember which knee was sore.” Huh, that’s odd. So they had both knees examined, which (of course) revealed nothing.
All of which spawned from this incident from this article, which says the Red Sox were on the verge of suspending him for unwillingness to play:
Just after the All-Star break, Boston was swept in Anaheim, a series in which Ramirez reached base in eight of his 13 plate appearances. But late on Sunday afternoon, July 20, as the team was leaving Anaheim for Seattle, he initially refused to board the charter flight. Sources said he told the Red Sox that his knees were so sore, he couldn’t play for three weeks…He eventually boarded the flight and played in the first two games against the Mariners, reaching base in six of the 10 times he stepped to the plate, before telling Francona his right knee was too sore to play on July 23.
That’s a pretty sore knee, Manny. Especially considering that the MRI they took a few days later was clean. And, oh yeah, his knee seemed fine in LA, even though he certainly ran a hell of a lot harder on it.
I’m okay with Manny being Manny. He’s a clown, but he’s good. But Manny refusing to play in order to force the Red Sox to trade him (and/or not pick up his options so he could be a FA)…well, I sort of think that crosses the line. I don’t care if he’s raking or not. The guy was dogging it all over the place, making up knee injuries, and so on. I just have a hard time respecting that.
by mojowo11 on Jan 29, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FYI, if i had to play for bean town,
i’d do anything to get out of there.
i am not condoning his conduct. but i understand his frustrations. as much as i can. i don’t get paid millions of dollars to play a kids game.
but if i did, bean town would be second to last on my list of teams i’d want to play for.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Why?
Have you ever been there? It’s an absolutely awesome city. From having been there TWICE and from having been to Fenway TWICE I can say that Yankees fans and Cubs fans are FAR FAR FAR worse than Sawx fans. They’re intense, sure, but I think I’d rather play in front of that than, say, Dodgers fans, who treat baseball like some kind of neat little hobby that people have.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 30, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
I can see why this whole thing would rub someone the wrong way, I really do. If he’d come out and played every other day and got one or two hits over the course of that month, I think I’d be totally on board. The way I see it he still did what they paid him to do (mash baseballs) and he was FAR from the team’s biggest problem. However, I respect your right to disagree on the issue and I certainly don’t condone what he did.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 30, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
but now that Albert's gone public, it will be disputed up, down & all around
all we need is Tony to jump on board & we’ll have ourselves a three ring circus.
and you know what? damnit all to hell if i haven’t gone completely batcrap & now, not only do i want Ben Sheets, i want ManRam. if he’s good enough for Albert, he’s good enough for me
hey MO! it’s only money bro. you can’t take it with you, we all know the Cards have it, they might as well use it.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
LaRussa likes damage in the two spot
Dunn would do it.
Or, as #1, it would kind of be like when Bo Jackson hit leadoff in the All Star Game back when he was hitting the ball 475 feet.
Not a chance in tarnation, but it would be fun to watch the ABs.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 29, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
I know that...
I think TLR is a bit less creative with the leadoff spot than he is with the rest of the lineup. That may not be true, but it’s a hunch more than anything. Who knows.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Explains why Skip was there almost every day
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
i say we go for pure OBP batting order
could you imagine the Kevin Slaten show?
or Cardstalk?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 29, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
I say we sign Dunn
and put him a second base.
I love it here at VEB, where everyone can play second.
Hell, why not Barry Bonds?
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
i think the official saying is "anyone can play second"
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 30, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
"I have a cunning plan"
What is it, Baldrick?
“We sign ManRam, Dunn AND Abreu, and force all the teams looking for power-hitting low-hanging fruit to come to us to deal.”
It’ll never work….
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 30, 2009 4:41 AM EST up reply actions
Calling Abreu a power hitter
is like calling John Garland a “strikeout machine”…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Well, he is 208th
on the top 500 HR hitters of all time in the MLB, even though his OPS has been down the last few years. But ya gotta admit he’s a decent hitter, with a fair amount of pop in his bat.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 30, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
more dissapointments
that most all of the players that would have been a good fit here really wanted to play elsewhere
Furcal (what a dick move this guy and his agent did)
Johnson
Pettite
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
Youth Movement
I am most happy with the Greene acquisition. He may not be great but he will at least be a threat. Izturis was a non-threat. I am also very pleased that Perez may be given the closers job.
I am most disappointed that the 2B has not been addressed. Cards need a 2B leadoff hitter who can set the table and a proven hitter in the #2 slot ahead of Pujols. They have neither. Schumaker or Rasmus will fill one of those spots but not both; their line-up begs for a proven hitter in one of those spots.
I am extremely disappointed that there is no interest in Sheets. Sheets is a legitimate #1 type pitcher and you just don’t get the opportunity to get those guys very often. Makes no sense to me that they are not interested.
most disappointing
yet another injury even in the offseason, our third best hitter. this may have a silver lining however. 2nd most disappointing is not taking care of the logjam in the outfield, but it’s understandable given the current market; so I guess I’m just disappointed with the bad timing there. finally, I’m disappointed we haven’t signed BEN MF’ING SHEEEEEETS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 3:09 PM EST reply actions
so bad it made Deadspin
http://deadspin.com/5136441/st-louis-gm-mixes-it-up-with-angry-cardinals-fans
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
Deadspin
is a great site. Lots of funny stuff.
it's taken a big hit without Will running the show
but i still visit it daily
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
+1
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
dang
I have even more respect for Mozeliak, the guy is hillarious!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
thats just embarrasing
if i were a cubs fan…well first off i would probably be wondering why the thing on the faucet with the H on it keeps making my hand hurt…but after that i would be making fun of any cards fan i could find
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 29, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm HAPPY.....
that we haven’t traded Rick Ankiel. There I said it. And I’m not taking it back.
This is based on two reasons:
1. I like seeking Rick Ankiel play for the Cards and I think the Cards will be better this year if he plays for us.
2. I think he is more valuable to us (by playing and in draft picks he leaves in FA) than whatever we could get for him in the phantom “Rick for a good young pitcher” trade everyone is hypothesizing about.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 29, 2009 3:28 PM EST reply actions
yeah
Rick Ankiel is worth keeping at least until midseason… perhaps then we will trade him, don’t think we’ll get much for him right now.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
we'll end up w/ 1 supplemental pick
not bad, but the idea that he’ll be a type-A free agent is a fantasy.
you think so chuck
looking at the rankings this year he just missed the B cut. with a good final month of the season i think he is at least around the cutoff. if josh willingham and jayson werth can be type A i think ricky could too.
although, if this offseason is any indicator of next year’s offseason, maybe having him be a type B is better than having him be a type A.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
If you look at their seasons...
I’m not sure how Jason Werth is an A and Ankiel is struggling to make a B. Ank hit more homers and drove in more runs than Werth in fewer games. The only thing I can think of is that Werth has more service time, but his previous seasons weren’t even good enough to make him a type B in my book, so what gives?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
elias uses two years worth of data
Springer with the A's now
3 mil plus incentives……
Would have liked his knowledge in the bullpen….. but oh well.
Miles just fouled off a 100 MPH heater from Zumaya in Game 4 of the WS
I was at this game!
Gotta love MLB Network.
would like it if they
could do some those games “ON DEMAND”. I can never catch the programs I want to watch when time allows me to. What I’ve seen so far is pretty good.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 29, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Do you live in the stone age?
Everyone and their mother has a DVR these days!
Oh, wait—nevermind, my mom doesn’t have one. :P
Well....
I do resemble Fred Flinstone’s Boss….. Mr. Slate?…… maybe someday I can get the DVR.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 29, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Spacely is George Jetson's boss
not Fred’s.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
well there was that one
Jetsons/Flinstones movie where Fred and George switched places. So technically sdesserman is correct, but only technically
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Thanks, Rosie
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
hey don't laugh at azru's girl
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 29, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
my beef with the offseason
AK’s still here, Ank is still here, Baby Dunk is still here, Pinata is still here, Santa is giving us visions of Scotty Ro’s weak pop up’s dancing in our head, Low Hanging Fruit, no name Loogy’s & finally, no BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
i’m actually torn though, part of me wants to go batcrap crazy with anger that bigger moves have not been made. but part of me see’s the logic in a lot of moves that have not made. i’m frustrated, very much so in fact. but damnit, MO’s logic makes sense. sometimes. i still pull for the Cards, and they are still better than so many teams it’s not even funny. i am blessed, yet i want more. i need more. i won’t be satisfied till i get more.
i guess the Dr was right. i really do have multiple personalities.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
i agree with the logic of the moves not been made
never before in a season have I seen so many things just break the wrong way for us
fuentes has his heart set on LA (not that I mind)
Johnson has his heart set on west coast
Furcal has his heart set on LA
Pettitte wont pitch anywhere but NY
barring those guys that leaves us with
the guys who are too good/too expensive for us,
the crap,
and the guys in the middle of which I think the only viable ones are Sheets and Hudson (to an extent)
then on top of that no one wants Kennedy at all
and we cant trade an OF because there are still very good OFs on the FA market with their prices going down each day.
does that pretty much sum it up?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
glaus hurts himself working out
a month before spring training?
At least the Padres didn’t give Peavy to the cubs for peanuts.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Listen to Albert
Mo should listen up when Albert speaks. If we bring Manny on board, I think our rotation can do enough. It doesn’t seem very practical…but come on. I want to see Albert-Manny in our line-up.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/wires/01/29/2010.ap.bbn.cardinals.pujols.0256/
if we are going to slpurge for Manny
we might as well sign Bonds…well just because
Pujols, Manny, Bonds
I mean, the novelty alone is worth it
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
then again you have the problem of Man Ram right behing Pujols
;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
While we're at it, put Dunn in leadoff.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 29, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
With a Manny, Bonds, Dunn outfield
I think we could bring Flat Hat back and tell him that strikeouts are a good idea again.
On the other hand, I forgot that we would be playing Dunn at 2B.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 29, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
you better have a staff
that knows strikeouts are a good thing with that outfield!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ManRam
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 30, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh gosh...
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 29, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
I got it
Gross
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 29, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Bonds is about to get locked up
Although I had a dream the other night that we signed Bonds and made him our #2 hitter.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 29, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
and roger clemens can bat eighth
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 29, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Sheets
"The only thing that matters is that we win the World Series." - A.Pujols
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 29, 2009 8:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Kennedy vs. addressing pitching issues
Adam Kennedy should not be our starting 2nd baseman. I’ve been very disappointed over the front office’s decision to have this guy as our main guy. He played terrible last year, and is a major offensive liability.
I’ve also been disappointed that the front office has not addressed all problems. I thought the Khalil Greene trade was a good move, but they need to get another starter. I have been anti-Ben Sheets all along, and I will be all the way.
Why not trade a guy in our platoon of outfielders? We need to still fill some holes! I have a very bad feeling that the front office is going to twittle their thumbs the rest of the offseason and then come the season, we’ll be struggling and they’ll be left to wonder what they did wrong. I hope I’m wrong, but they need to address their issues!!!
"Why not trade a guy in our platoon of outfielders? We need to still fill some holes!"
It really annoys me when people say stuff like this and don’t propose a single idea. Who should we trade? Who should we get back? Keep in mind that you need to find a team that has a need in the OF and has a good young player that that team considers expendable. Oh, and there’s the problem of the many free agent outfielders out there right now — why would a team trade a young player for one of our outfielders when they could keep their young player and sign Dunn or Abreu or whoever?
It’s not constructive to say, “We should do some trades!” It’s just not that simple.
pedro
can pedro close?
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Loves and hates
Best things from this offseason:
That we didn’t sign Lopez, Furcal, Fuentes, Izturis, Miles (for the money), or anyone else to a really stupid contract.
Worst thing from this offseason:
The lack of progress in improving our starting pitching. Extremely frustrating. But, the offseason is not over yet.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 29, 2009 10:39 PM EST reply actions
In the overall scheme of things
the team is totally confusing. Since we don’t know the future, we must take out lessons from the past. I maintain that by not going after Porcello, who would have cost far,far less than a free agent, and not getting bullpen help at last year’s deadline is indicative of the club’s direction. One commenter said quantity over quality is their approach and I think that is justified. The Lohse signing last season was pure luck. He was passed over by many teams and then signed for peanuts and over performed. Until last year, he was a .500 pitcher at best, and certainly not a fifteen game winner. I have to say I like his signing the four year deal. A club needs a durable innings eater and prior to last year that was Kyle’s main asset. Having dissed the front office so much, I would be wrong to not acknowledge Mo’s talent at trading. Glaus for Rolen was a thing of beauty. My biggest complaint against this front office is their unwillingness to ever make an exception. I realize that you must have a plan and work it, but one who will not budge is an idealist not a pragmatist.
As for the infamous chat, I too had asked polite reasonable questions. Why we, the readers, were subjected to that childish prattle is beyond me. A waste of bits. I have to say, I rarely comment at the PD site, but I fired off a rather negative comment to Bernie when he obviously enjoyed that dribble enough to write a congratulatory column. I told Bernie that it was beneath the standards of a legitimate newspaper. I considered that demeaning to the club, the paper and the fans. It has been covered by national sites like ESPN. Pitiful.
My forecast for 09 – We are one good starter and one good left handed reliever away from contending for the division and we better win the division as I see the wild card coming from the east. I think that we better win with the team we bring north, because I doubt the front office will do much at the trade deadline, just as last year. Mo will be tested in his ability to swap outfielders for pitching since this is the desire of almost every g.m. We’ll see how talented he really is in his results. Even without any more roster additions, such a strong offense can occasionally reach the post season, but it will require a full recovery by Carpenter to make it happen.
I wish this club would draft nothing but pitching unless a truly exceptional position player is available. Then quantity over quality might just pay off as you can always trade a decent pitching prospect for a major league position player.
In conclusion, this will be another exciting and frustrating season and it will be a joy to be a cardinal fan.
victim of the sixties
by victim of the sixties on Jan 30, 2009 1:10 AM EST reply actions
Drafting pitching
My guess is that the FO figures hitters develop more reliably than pitchers, so they plan on drafting bats in the first round and less heralded pitching throughout the draft. With a stockpile of big bats, they bet that they’ll be able to trade for great pitching down the road. I don’t know how often teams would be willing to trade young pitching for fielders, so it’s hard to assess. If we end up packaging Wallace for a legit #1 on-the-cusp prospect down the road, then we’ll see they knew what they were doing.
FWIW
They have done a pretty good job at picking up pitchers in the later rounds the last few years. Deryk Hooker, Mitch Boggs, Jess Todd, etc. were all picked later in the draft and all have some pretty good upside.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
2nd place is not good enough for St.Louis
We need to sign Ben Sheets and Ohman to sure up our pitching staff. I like the idea of signing Dunn too but I know that’s not going to happen. The Cubs are on paper better than the Cards right now and that fact is unacceptable to me as a Cardinal fan. Signing Ben Sheets would close the gap and make this team a world series contender (if Carp is what I know he will be) Though just hoping that Perez and Motte are going to close games could be a pipe dream but I’m on board. Lets go Cardinals, you are better than the Cubs, we just need Sheets and that statement is true!!!
by sheets in cardinal red on Jan 30, 2009 1:16 AM EST reply actions
Mo's chat...
Honestly, it’s the internet. People act like idiots. They did 10 years ago when it first became popular, and it’s even worse now. No one should have been surprised by that. That’s why there should be filters for questions and such (usually a moderator of the site hosting the chat, but even the chat guy himself)
I honestly think that there were filters, but Mo went ahead and picked the offensive stuff as a way to deflect questions about Sheets or lack of any movies. He could just start a fight with a fan and thus discredit any people who disagreed with his moves (or lack of them) this offseason.
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
it's like a Faux News channel trick
i.e. put on the dumbest “liberals” you can find,,, as straw men… and the underlying message is…SEE…liberals are stupid.
My beef with the offseason
I agree that the rudeness of the PD forum was astonishing. Mo deserves some respect.
But having said that – I do not think anyone can seriously argue that the off season so far has been inspiring.
Greene is a nice upgrade to the mediocrity we had SS last season. His power bat will add some flare to the bottom of the lineup.
But our bullpen is again stocked with less than stellar lefties and inexperienced albeit potentially skilled RHPs.
We have not substantially upgraded our SP. We are relying on Carpenter being healthy. The Cardinals have ZERO credibility when it comes to injured players. Their PR staff is either incompetent or willfully deceitful.
Why is it they constantly misrepresent injuries? It is stupid PR and I am constantly dumbfounded by the way these people handle injury reports. If the doctors are morons and can’t properly diagnose their players – then get new ones for crying out loud. At some point the Cardinals need to ask themselves how it is that rest and rehab almost always turns into surgery and longer than normal waits for an injured players to get back on the field.
The problem I have is that I am not convinced that Carpenter will be a contributor to the 2009 team and Mo has failed at least so far to acquire an insurance policy.
La Russa and Pujols would like an impact bat and there does not seem to be a willingness to go out and get it.
We do not want to trade our guys. OK. Fine. So let’s go out and get an impact free agent.
But wait. We can’t do that either.
Does anyone really believe that the team as it is currently constructed can overcome the Cubs?
I don’t.
The team built a new stadium. They moved the radio broadcasts from KMOX and bought their own flagship station to increase revenue. They have increased ticket prices and attendance has remained about the same.
So – they have increased revenue and yet the payroll has stayed about the same.
I do not agree with the crazed lunatics who think that Kevin Slaten walks on water.
But quite honestly what has Mo done to significantly improve this team?
Getting on the Internet and talking to fans does not impress me.
Putting championship teams together – now that impresses me.
Until Mo can field a decent team by being “creative” (his words) then I could care less about how often he logs time talking to fans.
The reality is that this team is not significantly improved. Those of us in the VEB community understood that we could not sell the future to compete in 2008 and we held out hope for 2009 and 2010.
We are one good SP or one good hitter away from being a team that has a chance to make a run.
So where is the creativity?
Where is the imagination?
Where is the vision?
Where is Mo?
Oh yeah. He is on the Internet talking to jackasses. Right where he should be.
I am so excited to see Joel Pinero and I can’t wait to go see see Todd Wellemeyer pitch for four innings.
And I really am looking forward to seeing Chris Duncan drop flys and strike out.
It is going to be a season to end all seasons.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
by Cardinal Red State on Jan 30, 2009 4:55 AM EST reply actions
i agree
their words, their actions, and their repercussions. overall, i’d say that greene is an interesting gamble that cost $3M, hope they don’t roll snake eyes with that one because keeping iz2 and throwing the extra $3M (or 6 if we stayed inside) at sheets and/or ohman would have have made for a better team.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
yeah
“So where is the creativity? Where is the imagination? Where is the vision? Where is Mo?” Oh yeah. He is on the Internet talking to jackasses. Right where he should be.
because if Mo didn’t spend that hour or so in January chatting on the internet, he would have spent that hour SIGNING BEN SHEETS!!
i’m frustrated too, I just don’t see any solutions in your post. What are the answers?
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Mo
Look there is plenty we could have done. Look at how many pretty good pitchers have signed one-year deals. Guys like Randy Johnson might have helped the team.
Mo promised creativity and instead we have more of the same.
This is the Cardinals. We should not accept mediocrity.
I was happy the Fuentes deal went down because I have believed the greatest need for the team is SP.
Unfortunately, it is not a matter of “what could they have done.” It is a matter of not even trying. Mo and DeWitt have both publicly stated that they are happy with the rotation has it is set up now.
THAT is what I have a problem with.
They are living in a fantasy world and keep telling us that the crap sandwiches they are feeding us are prime rib.
They need to sign Sheets. Period.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
by Cardinal Red State on Feb 1, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
BEN SHEETS!
it’s been beat to death here, but Randy Johnson was never an option. He wasn’t going to play anywhere but the west coast this season. They offered Fuentes more money than the angels, and he turned them down, because he wanted to play for an LA team.
I still don’t know what they could have done that would have satisfied you (though I guess moving the team to Long Beach might have gotten a couple of “impact players” to sign up ;)
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
BEN SHEETS is an impact player
hmm… I don’t think he has a west coast preference. Hey… we should sign him.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Feb 1, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
it's very easy to criticize broadly.
honestly, other than signing sheets and maybe being more careful with signing Lohse and leaving money to compete for Lowe, I don’t see big changes that I would make to what Mo’s done.
Also, Todd Wellemeyer averaged almost exactly 6 ip/game last year.
Number of starts last year: 32
Number of games in which he left the game before pitching five full innings: 1
I agree
We clearly were never going to get Manny, Sabathia, Burnett, Lowe or K-Rod. The other “big names” on the market were overrated and overpaid closers (Fuentes, Wood), mediocre innings eaters (Garland, Wolf and Looper), all hit no field corner outfielders (Dunn, Abreu, Burrell and Ibanez), and then a motley collection of LOOGY’s who really wouldn’t be that much of an improvement over the guys we have now in terms of wins.
There are only 3 guys this offseason whom I would want to sign. Randy Johnson, BEN SHEETS and Braden Looper (mostly because he is cheap and durable). Randy Johnson never wanted to play here, and there is always a risk on counting on a 43 year old strikeout pitcher. We will have to pay Sheets a little too much money for such an injury risk, when we already are super thin in starting depth (although using WAR it makes a lot of sense). I think that we will end up signing either Looper or Wolf, which I will be okay with.
Ideally the best move this offseason would have been to trade an OF for a starter, but with the glut of FA outfielders we wouldn’t get close to fair value for a guy like Ankiel or Ludwick. Schumaker would probably get us a AA reliever at best.
So in short, the offseason has been uninspiring so far, but there hasn’t been much else we could have done to REALLY improve the team.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 30, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Chuckb you're ignoring a big factor
Johnny Mo has final say on what questions he will answer and which ones he won’t. The fact that he took questions that were disrespectful show he has an agenda to make fans that are critical of his moves look like nutjobs. This is further evidenced by taking not just one, but two questions from “IhateDeWitt.” The first answer was funny and there are certainly some nutjobs out there. The second one though was completely unnecessary and likely shows he has an agenda out there to dismiss the criticism. I was thoroughly disappointed Mo decided to take those disrespectful questions, instead of taking critical questions that were respectful. I am surprised that your article conveniently forgets that glaring fact. It is certainly an eggregious error on your part.
by CardsRedOctober2009 on Feb 3, 2009 10:30 AM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Please hold: Indians’ Joe Smith jumps the gun on relief appearance
- Local radio host honors Cubs’ Tony Campana with parody song
- Roy Halladay bobblehead with glove on wrong hand selling on MLB.com
- Will Smith shows why making your big-league debut at Yankee Stadium is less than ideal
- Steinbrenners selling the Yankees? Family denies New York Daily News report
