Snow Day Musings: Chaos = Garland?
by the red baron on Jan 28, 2009 1:06 PM EST
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PrintWell, I am officially snowed in. Here in picturesque downtown Barnhart, Missouri (I think this is downtown. Or maybe the 7-11 is downtown? Tough to say, really.), we have somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-14 inches of snow on the ground. (Then again, being a man, it's also entirely possible I'm way overestimating that; we tend to do that when speaking in terms of inches.) Thus, I will be staying in today. If I were just a bit younger, I might go out and build a snowman, but I suppose I should really have outgrown that by now. On the other hand, if any of the neighborhood kids would like to have a snowball fight, I will bury them with an avalanche of snow and rage.
It's been an odd January, hasn't it? I honestly don't recall if it's ever happened before, but when someone says the word "Cardinals", they generally aren't talking about the baseball team. Not the usual state of affairs at all.
Really, though, it isn't just January that's been odd in the baseball world. This whole offseason has been exceedingly strange, at least from a perspective of who and what has been signed vs. what is still available on the market. For instance, thanks to ESPN, I am now aware that Manny Ramirez is still a free agent. Now, I realise that statement probably sounds like I'm being facetious, but I assure you, I am completely serious. I had honestly forgotten that Manny was still out there. Ditto Adam Dunn. I mean, I know that Manny is a Grade A asshat and Dunn is the sworn enemy of J.P. Ricciardi, but still. Has there ever been an offseason when so many potentially game-changing players were still unsigned just three weeks before pitchers and catchers report day?
As this bizarre, chaotic offseason goes on, I think it's becoming more and more apparent that not just one, but several free agent pitchers are going to end up being this year's Kyle Lohse. I remember, back at the beginning of the offseason, there was quite a bit of debate here and elsewhere, over which pitcher was going to be that guy, or if anyone was. To my eye, there are about four pitchers who are all going to end up somewhere on, most likely, one year deals, trying to make good this season and see if the payday will be out there for 2010.
Personally, I'm still on the Ben Sheets bandwagon; in fact, I consider myself one of the founding members. (By the way, look at that: 800+ comments in the middle of December. Weird.) However, as time goes by, I think we're seeing that the Cardinals have pretty much no interest in Sheets whatsoever. Now, whether that's a good thing or not is debatable, as well as what reasons the Cardinals may have. Regardless, what isn't debatable is the fact that Ben Sheets in a Cardinal uniform looks to be an extremely long shot at this point.
Thus, I thought we might take a look at the other one year options that could very well still be out there. Well, the acceptable one year options, anyway. Oh, and minus Pedro Martinez, seeing as how I have no idea what's going on with that guy.
Pros- Durable, so should throw plenty of innings. Has worked with Dave Duncan before. Is already known to the team, so clubhouse issues should be nonexistent. Should come plenty cheap.
Cons- Approaching the age when health concerns become magnified. May or may not have hard feelings toward the club for the way arbitration was handled.
Bottom line- With Looper, we know pretty much what we're going to get performance wise. The debate is really over his health. You have to weigh his durability the past couple of season against the large number of innings he's logged, which we tend to forget was a huge jump over his previous totals. Has had arm surgeries in the past as well, adding to those concerns. Overall, I wouldn't have a problem with Looper again. i just wonder if he would want to come back.
Pros- Most talented member of this group. Left-handed. High strikeout totals indicate plenty of stuff.
Cons- Wildly inconsistent. K totals and velocity have never returned to 2004 levels, and probably will not. Seems to be a little tough to work with from a coaching standpoint. Scott Boras client, so may not be easy negotiation. Crazy as hell.
Bottom line- Oliver is definitely the most talented pitcher on the market outside of the aforementioned Mr. Sheets, but comes with a ton of baggage. How many times in his career have we heard that so and so has finally figured out Oliver's delivery, only to see him make three good starts, then fall back apart again? At this point, the Boras Factor is probably not a huge issue, but it still has to be a consideration. Personally, I like Perez; he's got excellent stuff and is fun to watch in that Joaquin Andujar sort of way, but I wonder whether or not he would mesh well with the Cardinals' coaching staff, not to mention the players. By which I mean Albert.
Pros- Left-handed. Has put up good K numbers, indicating his stuff is still good enough. Was surprisingly good down the stretch last year for the Astros. Appears healthy again after multiple injuries.
Cons- Health issues cannot be completely ignored. Seems determined to play on the West Coast somewhere, and has spurned Cardinal offers before. Tends to be a bit of a fly ball pitcher.
Bottom line- I think Wolf would be an excellent choice, having posted solid FIPs each of the past two seasons. While you still have to worry about his health concerns, the time away from the game could also be interpreted as giving him a fairly fresh arm. Unfortunately, I just don't see Wolf coming here. He seems set on pitching back out west again.
Pros- Durable. Really durable. Ground ball pitcher. Still relatively young at 29. Oh, did I mention he's durable?
Cons- Not that good a pitcher. Strikes out literally no one. Peripherals in general are all heading the wrong direction.
Bottom line- Garland is basically the exact same pitcher as Braden Looper, only about five years younger. Neither one of them strike out many batters, but the also don't walk a whole lot. In front of a defense like the one the Cardinals should field this year, either could be pretty solid. I've ranted against Garland before, but when it comes right down to it, the Cardinals could do worse.
In the end, I really think that the Cards are going to end up with Jon Garland on a one year deal. Something probably in the five-six million dollar range. And you know what? I would probably be okay with that. He's a Type B, so he doesn't cost the Cardinals their first rounder next year, and he's as good a bet as there is in baseball to make every start. Now, I am not, repeat not, saying that Garland would be my choice. I would take Wolf or Perez either one over Garland on a one year contract. However, if the choice comes down to bringing back Braden Looper for one year or signing Garland for 1/$6 mil, I think I would have to go with Garland, mostly due to the simple age difference.
On a side note, it truly pains me to say that Joe Strauss may, in fact, be right about something. Although technically, he did say that he would take Garland, which I still vehemently disagree with. Still, I think the Cardinals quite likely end up with him about a week and a half from now.
So how about it? Garland, Wolf, Perez, or Looper? Or, of course, you could always go with none of the above. I will say, though, that none of the above scares me, mostly because it means that El Pinata will be in the rotation pretty much no matter what, and if Carpenter again goes down, we could see both Jo-El and someone like Mitchell Boggs forced to take 50-60 starts. That's not so good. I actually like Boggs, and I think he could very well end up being a solid #4 starter in the fairly near future. I do not, however, want to be forced to rely on him this season, nor do I wish to see the Mike Maroth Show, version 2.0.
Stay warm, all.
Oh, and I still want Ben Sheets. Just putting it out there.
Edit: Sigh. My timing, as usual, is flawless. Apparently Garland signed with Arizona right about an hour before I posted this. Kind of nice to have dodged a bullet there, but also remarkable irritating to have not written it at least a little earlier in the morning. -RB
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unless AZ is going to trade us for garland
we dodged that bullet.
I think it’s increasingly likely that the FO is actually going to “play the kid” in this role, and let one of KMac, Boggs, Mort, or Todd pitch.
I recall some guys...
having pretty good years and not being regarded as prospects by any means when they were given their chance (Jason Simontacchi and Garrett Stephenson). I would have no problem letting K-Mac and Pineiro act as a combo starter to stretch K-Mac out a bit but also conserve the innings being logged on his arm. Plus Pineiro was usually good the first trip through the lineup. Start Pineiro for 3 innings, bring K-Mac in for 4 innings, then give the ball to Motte and Perez and chalk up a W for K-Mac (who would possibly get the most wins ever without starting a game – I would predict a solid 13-16 wins out of him in that scenario)
That would be so great
But no-one would ever do it.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't there a time in Oakland
When LaRussa put all his pitchers on a 90-pitch limit? Or even less? Effectively, two starters? I don’t think it worked out very well…or maybe I’m just having wild hallucinatory memories.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 28, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Put a line through Garland
Just agreed on a one year deal with the Diamondbacks.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
If the Cards
were willing to go 1yr 6 million for Garland why not put out the extra 2 or 3 million for Sheets? I just dont get it. I understand that Sheets will want more than a 1 yr deal but I am talking about annual salary.
i think its clear that there is more to it than salary
since NO TEAM has signed sheets as of yet, i would be very surprised and upset if it was just salary keeping this guy from a cards uniform. I’m guessing that there is something of concern medically going on with the guy.
It's pretty obvious you're guess is correct, IMO
This forearm flexor strain usually goes one of two ways:
1) Rest, rehab a few weeks and then no problem
2) Failed conservative management, diagnosed with torn UCL, Tommy John Surgery to follow. I don’t think many teams are ready to take the chance until he proves his health somehow.
So by that
I’d imagine this goes one of two ways
1. He doesn’t demonstrate health, we don’t want him
2. He demonstrates health, he becomes too expensive
Not afraid to nitpick
I think your right
That he will most likely need Tommy John Surgery in the next year. The only way I think it makes any sense to sign Sheets if you assume he will miss at least a year with Tommy John Surgery.
Lets say he goes down in June of 09, Most likely he would not be back on the mound till July of 2010. So you would be probably be lucky if you got 150-200IP in 2 years from him. (Lowest he has ever pitched was 106IP in 2006). He has pitched 838.4 IP over the last 5 seasons amassing a Win Value of 22.6. Roughly 37 IP equals Win Value. So lets just assume over a 2 year period he pitch’s around 150IP to 200IP. He would be worth roughly 4 Wins to 5.4 Wins. Even we just stuck with 08’s value of a Win to be $4.4M than he would be worth anywhere from $17.6M to $23.76M between 09 and 10 on the rather conservative side.
So even with his injury probability he still seems like a good bet. Just because when he is healthy he is that good. But with his known injury problems a club wouldn’t have to guarantee as much money. You could offer heavy incentives for IP. It would also make the most sense to assume injury and sign a 2 year contract with a 3yr option. The first year will provide the least value, 2nd more, and 3rd yr most likely the most with him possibly be the healthiest during that year.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 28, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
how about this contract offer:
2Y, 24M guaranteed. if he pitches LESS than 300 innings in those two years, a series of 1Y, 400K options kick in until he’s pitched 300 innings total (or released).
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I don't think you would need to guarantee him that much
I think it would be be better to sign him to a 2 Year/$16M with heavy incentives based upon innings. Make the innings based per year not the 2 year period. The reason being is you expect him to be injury plagued the end of the 1st year and beginning of the 2nd year. He will most likely not even make the IP requirements. It would be a gamble for payroll for sure. Than add a 3rd Year Option of $14M with $2M buyout
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 28, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm about ready to just let this meme run.
but i will just block quote from above:
Has there ever been an offseason when so many potentially game-changing players were still unsigned just three weeks before pitchers and catchers report day?
of course, given that there is only one BEN SHEETS
and if some other team HAD signed him, we wouldn’t be talking about it, I don’t think it’s fair to use the fact that no one has signed him as evidence of anything.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
why not exactly
if it were so cut and dried as to his salary, some team by now would have signed him. there simply has to be some other factor out there that is keeping him in the unemployment line. its very true that it might not be a medical concern, that is simply my guess.
here's three
1) the economy is worse off than any time since the second world war
2) sheets could be as healthy as a horse right now and it wouldn’t change the fact that he has gotten hurt in the past and missed a bunch of games
3) the whole free agent market stinks on ice. Andy Pettitte just took a 60% pay cut. Dunn, Abreu, Manny, etc. remain unsigned.
and as a bonus, why is it that we spend all this time complaining how stupid/cheap/boneheaded the front office is, yet we assume that every OTHER team’s front office is comprised of some holy triumvirate of Socrates/Albert Einstein/Bill James? Why is the lack of action by another front office prima facie evidence that what the other front office is doing is correct and rational? Why can’t other front offices be just as dumb/cowardly/skin-flinty as ours is occasionally?
my thoughts
1) this explains why his eventual contract wont be as high as it would have been in other years….
2) as has been explained ad naseum, even with his injuries he still has been very valuable in his career. AJ Burnett has the same concerns and was signed…..
3) Dunn and Abreu are DH’s who want to play in the OF. There arent many DH positions and the market has learned (Phillies apparently the exception) that a glove does help when playing the OF. Manny is a special case of high demands and Boras trying to play chicken with the dodgers. Pettitte as well boxed himself in and didnt really avail himself to the free market. Plus he is simply not as good a pitcher as Sheets.
4) sure, it could be a huge case of group think. I dont hold the view that since we havent signed Sheets that we are too cheap/stupid and i dont think that about other front offices either. as i stated earlier, i think its due to some other factor we are not aware of yet, most likely a medical concern
aj burnett is not a good comp to sheets
burnett
05: 209 IP, 5.1 war
06: 135.2 IP, 3.2 war
07: 165.2 IP, 2.8 war
08: 220.1, 5.7 war
AVG: 182 IP, 4.2 war
sheets
05: 156.2 IP, 3.7 war
06: 106 IP, 4.0 war
07: 141.1 IP, 2.3 war
08: 198.1, 4.6 war
AVG: 150 IP, 3.65 war
Burnett pitches about 5 games more per year. and he’s worth more than half a win more.
and if you believe the stats, in many senses pettitte was a better pitcher than sheets — he had an average of 4.2 war over the past three years and pitched more than 200 innings each of those years.
maybe the issue is that, like lots of other people, sheets just needs a wake up call to know that he won’t get the multiyear deal he wants, just like lots of other people this year.
The problem with WAR's based on FIP's
is that if favors guys like Pettitte who puts up good peripherals but gets hit around a lot. BEN SHEETS doesn’t get hit a lot AND he puts up great peripherals.
SIGN BEN SHEETS
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Economics major...
1) the economy is worse off than any time since the second world war
The unemployment rate in 1945 was over 14 percent. Now it is 7.2 percent. Part of our economic problems come from everyone freaking out and thus spending less money. The economy is bad, but it’s not that bad.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
i wouldn't ask you to believe my word, but maybe
I know it's bad
and unemployment isn’t the only tool, but I think there’s a bit of fear mongering going on with the current economic issues. The economy shouldn’t have influence on whether or not we spend $10M more or less in the offseason (signing Sheets) I’m done though, this thread is supposed to be about baseball…sorry
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
the media? fear mongering & scaring the public? noooooooooo
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I know
crazy idea, straight outta left field
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'll buy Krugman
but don’t talk about the IMF as a stable of great economic ideas — the IMF has ruined more developing countries than I care to name with it’s ridiculous fiscal policies. Maybe if Krugman ran the IMF…
Also, most of Krugman’s point actually has to do with unemployment — the biggest reason we need to use fiscal government deficits is to create jobs and keep people working so that they can spend money. If the economy continues to shed jobs like it is, the crisis is only going to deepen because lack of lending and decreasing GDP. What Krugman suggests is to create projects to upgrade infrastructure — thereby creating jobs for people in those sectors and investing in the future of the country by building things that we’re going to need anyway.
Have we seen some banks fail? Yes. Have we seen some people lose their homes? Yes, but most of those people were mortgaged to the hilt and overextended, we haven’t seen fiscally conscious people being kicked to the curb — yet. If anything, the FDIC alone ensures that this crisis will not be as bad as the original depression was. Plus, our economic governmental agencies aren’t nearly as foolish this time around: There will be across the board raising of taxes and balanced budgets from this White House or economic team. They will deficit spend until the economy turns around and hope to pay down the debt when GDP starts to climb again. The biggest problem is that the Bush years ran so many ridiculous deficits to enrich the top 1% and the pharma companies that we’re already in a giant hole to start with. Had we shored up Social Security and not gotten into a war we didn’t need to fight we’d still be running fiscal surpluses at this point, making the future deficits much easier to swallow.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
sorry
That should read “there will NOT be any accross the board tax hikes and balanced budgets from this White House and economic team”
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
aaaaaargh
baseball! baseball!
BEN SHEETS!!!!!!!
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 28, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Eh
Baseball please, I don’t want to read political opinions, true or not.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
I thought you started it!
doesn’t bother me btw… although some might not like to see it
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
He said SINCE the second world war
So he might be right.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
compensatory picks
the Brewers won’t take him back because they NEED that extra pick since they didn’t get it from Sabathia.
The other ‘protected’ teams more than likely can’t afford to expand their budgets anyways.
Remember, Kyle Lohse didn’t get a contract until the end of March and he was completely healthy in a good economy.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
yes but i hope you really arent comparing
Lohse and Sheets in terms of talent/ability. if perfectly healthy, Sheets would not have made it to march last offseason.
On a related tangent, if we would have been smart enought to let Lohse hit the FA market this season, what do you guess his contract would be? how much more are we paying for him than we should have?
$8 M a year
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Looper would be the best bet
1 year 5 million. We know what we would get with him and he would at least keep our rotation as good as last year.
IMO, I don’t think any of those pitcher are worth signing because there is really no evidence that McClellan/Boggs/Todd couldn’t do as well as them. The only pitcher who would actually represent a significant upgrade over what we have now would be BEN SHEETS. But no, he is too good and too cheap.
well said
I agree w/ the Looper sentiment. He’s bound to be the cheapest, and if we aren’t going to spend the money elsewhere, it doesn’t hurt to bring back Looper on the cheap for one more year. If nothing else, it makes it harder for Jo-El to make starts. Hopefully, the kids perform well enough in spring training to rip the 5th starter slot away from him anyway.
Sign Ben Sheets!
loop because
he could also relieve
unless someone figures sheets or pedro as closer
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Wow what timing
I guess the post would have been better if you just wait a little longer.
MLBtraderumors.com is reporting Garland to AZ
Hay u guise, sheets jsut sined with teh cards!!!1
Oops, I mean, Garland just signed with Arizona. My bad…
-1
:(
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I know you were kidding
It was more of a “I’m sad that isn’t true” -1
Sorry for the confusion ;)
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
Hey there's this one guy I think we should look into
his name is
BEN SHEETS
Any takers?
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 1:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
BEN SHEETS
I still can’t get over this: if Sheets pitches HALF the innings of Perez/Garland/random mediocre pitcher, he would still be worth more.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
what about BEN ******* SHEETS
that ring a bell?
As in, “Darn, that brewers team is awful offensively, but they have BEN ******* SHEETS pitching tomorrow, so they’ll probably beat us”. Heard often from 2001-2007, or so.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 28, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh
THAT Ben Sheets. I remember that guy…kinda nasty, pitched in the Olympics, hurt quite a bit. It’s all flooding back to me.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Mo just called me up
He said that the guy we are referring to as “Ben Sheets” is actually this guy:
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
MO better be careful, or someone going to do something awful to his mail box
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
which mean
he’s probably not really an option. sign BEN SHEETS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BEN SHEETS!!!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 28, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
new idea
Why dont we just trade motte to the Indians for Anthony Reyes? This way they would have a back up when Wood goes down and we would have our 5th starter.
funny.
why don’t you give me a papercut and rub lemon juice in it while you’re at it?
by tom s. on Jan 28, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
One of my guilty pleasure movies for one-liners
Along with “Better Off Dead” and “Bring It On”.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 28, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Ha-ha.
The Indians wouldn’t make that deal. They LIKE Reyes. They have their Wood back up anyway and a back up for the back up too.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Indians featured in upcoming viagra ad...
sorry, it’s just that when I read jillsinmo’s post, all my 13 year old eyes can see is "They have their Wood back up ". Sorry!!!
youneverknow
It's a good thing there's no such thing as a morning game
Kerry would have to be a starter again.
Not afraid to nitpick
yes!
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
Oh, no!
That was absolutely not intentional. Really, it wasn’t.
Now get your mind out of the gutter, and stop watching those TV commercials.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
it's kind of hard, every commercial break is filled with them
that was really funny though. sometimes the funnies things are unintentional.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Looper, Wolf and Perez are all a waste of time
they are neither good enough to put the Cardinals into contention nor are they valuable enough to net the Cardinals a return when they leave.
I will have lost all faith in Mozeliak’s ability to have a cogent plan as to what he wants to do if he signs any of those 5th starters.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 2:23 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
When is the next time Mozeliak does a chat/call in interview?
We should all blitz him. Tell the screener we want to ask about other stuff and when we get on the air bombard him with the Ben Sheets questions.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 2:33 PM EST reply actions
i am there
so MO, how’s the market for a backup bullpen catcher looking? and why’d you let those damn dirty wee bears sign our precious Mini Me?!?!
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I don't see where any of those guys are
any better than Joel. I would take them if it meant his $7.5M could be used for another need, but signing another mediocrity just compounds the problem.
Pineiro’s biggest problem in 2008 was that he was a fly ball pitcher who only made 9 of his 25 starts in HR-limiting Busch. His home numbers were fine, but he gave up a ton of bombs on the road.
Looper at home = 9.49 H/9, 2.48 BB/9, 4.70 K/9, .94 HR/9, 3.84 ERA
El Pinata at home = 9.96 H/9, 1.03 BB/9, 4.22 K/9, .84 HR/9, 4.05 ERA
Just work the rotation out so that the 5th starter pitches mostly at home, and throw him in the ditch if he fails and plug in one or more of the kids. Just don’t let him pitch much on the road because he was the hefe of the homer away with 1.6 HR/9 and .893 OPS against.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
The Waitnsee Tribe
The problem I have with Mozeliak’s “We will wait until ST and if we need to make a move we will” is that he significantly reduces his position of strength by doing that. If we wait until ST and people see that Chris Carpenter is trying to pitch left handed or is bouncing fastballs 55 feet from the mound, teams either in trades or agents in negotiations have more power than they would in a deal right now when no one can get a contract.
It’s just dumb. The only way you can justify it is if you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that the team AS IS is good enough to field in 2009. And if you do, pass the pipe.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think that the FO position
is something like:
“The team is competitive. We will contend.” As an aside, “We are good enough to still sell tickets.”
Sadly, it’s true. They will be competitive, but they won’t win.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
unless Zamboni, Hardly, and Board Game Manufacturer get hurt
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not worried about the Cubs
the Reds are going to be the dangerous team in the NL Central.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
really?
maybe for the first two months of the season. although Bruce and Votto could get kinda scary. rotation is plus; how their bullpen in your opinion?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
Harang can't be worse than he was last year
their rotation is going to be better than ours (as is now).
Their lineup will still have Phillips, Bruce, Votto, and Dickerson in it.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
they may have a better rotation
but we have better offense and bullpen, at least that’s how I see it right now.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
And a better manager
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 28, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
The Reds scare me a little
There bullpen looks solid. Cordero is a pretty good closer and guys like Lincoln, Adkins and Burton are pretty decent. And there rotation is downright scary. Our offense kicks there butt though. And we have The Mang.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
who's going to manage them?
they still don’t have a manager.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Jan 28, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I wish I could figure out how to put Pujols in here
until I do, you will have to be content with a regular ol
+1
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
+100000000000000
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 28, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
for every coin there's a flipside
Carp comes out healthy while another team loses an OF or 3B to injury. This is how I see it…..The 1st day of spring training is like the day after Thanksgiving. Why go out and buy now when you know its going to be on sale if you just wait a few weeks? Your selection may be limited, but if your not going to sign sheets then I say wait it out.
"Oh come on! that was so funny i peed a little!
Don’t worry, i changed right after."
yeah, i’m kind of a fan. sad to see the new season isn’t living up to the hype, but it’s still better than no Scrubs at all.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I actually think this new season
is awesome. Best Scrubs in years!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
yes. it's a lot better than season 6 & 7
but it’s not even close to 1-5. still, Scrubs & How I Met Your Mommy are the best 30min comedies on the teevee. i’m glad it’s back.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
The Office
is just as good as either of those…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
30 Rock
trumps all. :P
BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!
by spants on Jan 28, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+ Shark Week
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jan 28, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe it's just me
But I find 30 Rock annoying and pretentious, but I’m not a huge Curb Your Enthusiasm fan either, so maybe that’s part of it. I like Fey when she was on SNL, and Tracy Morgan is funnier when he’s just playing off the cuff, but I don’t understand why that show continues to win every award on the face of the planet when it isn’t even close to being as good as Arrested Development.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
arrested development
is fantastic, yes.
are you a fan of seinfeld or its always sunny in philadelphia?
if not then… what spants said.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
I like both of those other shows
30 Rock just doesn’t make me laugh for some reason.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
don't listen to spants, it's not just you
i can’t stand 30 rock or Curb.
the office puts me to sleep. seriously, i watched the original one first & didn’t get it. the american one is just dumb.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I dunno
I like curb your enthusiasm, haven’t really watched 30 rock but tina fey is awesome
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
The Office
I think it helps to have worked for a Michael Scott-type boss before in a similar environment to really get the most out of the office. I don’t know if that applies to you or not, but those who’ve worked in cubicle land seem to get a lot more out of that show.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
yep, so far i have not worked in a typical cubicle land
i don’t hate the office, i just don’t get the humor.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
it is confirmed
you have issues.
30 Rock is the best show in the HISTORY of television. I mean Tina Fey?
BEN SHEETS!!!
Little known fact, Tina Fey once dated BEN SHEETS!!!!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
well, it is settled
tina fey >> anna benson. Therefore, we should SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I've seen 1 and a half episodes of 30 Rock
and it doesn’t do it for me. Love The Office, am liking How I Met… on reruns, won’t watch new ones until I catch up. Also, Lost and House and Entourage.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 29, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
the office is my new favorite show
and psych
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 29, 2009 3:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yup
the last season sucked worse than Joel Piniero
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Public Negotiations
Assume the opposite and Mo said “Yes we are looking for another starter from the free agent pool”. He loses any position of strength with a comment opposite of what he is saying now. Mo doesn’t like to negotiate in the press as we saw with the Holiday rumors.
Good point
This is why Mo’s comments about already having a “competitive” staff and all don’t really bother me. What is he supposed to say? “Oh yeah, we really want another good pitcher to solidify our rotation.”?
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
It seems like a lot of Cards fans expect him to be a VEB member in his public statements
“Oh yeah, we’re definitely going into the season with some flimsiness in the rotation. You know, Pineiro sucks, my bad on that contract, I guess I didn’t realize he was so crappy. And Boggs sure did get hit around last year, huh? Man. Anyway, we’re just gonna pray that Carpenter is healthy—knowing he probably won’t be—and maybe swing for a crappy fifth starter or two around spring training, if anyone worthwhile is left. Oh, and we’re not signing Ben Sheets, hardy har har. Next question?”
Ignoring reality
in your public statements eventually gives you zero credibility with the fanbase.
Much like DeWitt and LaRussa have had after years of their public statements about ‘dry powder’ and ‘open competitions’.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
credibility is created by..
winning. Not by making ill-advised and leverage-killing statements to the press.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 28, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, but only to an extent
As said above, credibility is created first and foremost by success. If Mo builds a winning team going forward, he’s going to be okay in terms of credibility. Empty comments to the press will cause the fans will bitch and moan all offseason, maybe, but nobody’s going to be running Mo out of town if his teams are ultimately successful.
I agree that the fanbase loves frankness. They want to feel involved. I can relate, I wanna know stuff. I just think there’s a balance you have to achieve as a GM and it means erring more on the side of “don’t say anything” than “be transparent and honest.” You can’t just come out and say that the team’s starting pitching kinda sucks right now…that’s not good for leverage in negotiations, it’s not good for keeping the players on the current team content, and it’s not good for you because it sets that up as a need that you get crucified for if you don’t fill it satisfactorily (in other peoples’ opinion).
I agree that it’s frustrating, and I agree that Mo isn’t endearing himself to the fans. But I tend to think that you have to put on an unrealistically happy face as a GM, even if it ticks off the fanbase a bit.
Too bad we locked up Lohse so early..
The way the market is going, he could have been this year’s Kyle Lohse.
I think I just confused myself..
And I say England's greatest prime minister was Lord Palmerston.
He'd be even worse now
because Boras still has a bunch of big names out there on the market he is focused on.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
boras does great with his top tier talent
and he screws his midlevel talent. If you’re not next years sabathia or tex, you need a different agent.
Why must I repeatedly "defend" Boras
Who has gotten screwed? Kyle Lohse and his now 41 million dollar deal that looks awful? Jeff Weaver coming off a 5.76 ERA season getting 8 million (please don’t pull the STL would’ve kept him fixed!!!) ? Andruw Jones? Jarrod Washburn 3/37.5? Magglio Ordonez coming off a 52 game season? Ron Villone only making 12 million? Who on the list?
Let alone what he’s done with the draft…
Not afraid to nitpick
he didn't do kyle any favors last season.
and he doesn’t get credit for signing kyle this season when the team practically jumped into bed with kyle. they pulled him out of his last start to send him for his checkup. if a team is beating down the door, you can hardly say it was all boras’ doing that lohse got a big contract.
boras has a long history of playing chicken with clubs. sometimes he wins and sometimes he loses. if you succeed, you look great. if you lose out, the contract gets forgotten. but there’s huge risk in playing boras’ kind of hard ball and some players do lose out.
varitek looks like he will sign for far less than he might have gotten, especially in arbitration. weaver may have had a rough season, but a lot of people got fazed by his WS performance. weaver is now out of baseball entirely — you don’t think a pitching friendly park and a supportive pitching coach would have helped him?
last, boras’ known proclivities have started to harm his players. every time rick ankiel’s name comes up, somebody says well, he has boras, so he’ll never sign an extension and he’ll never come up for a reasonable amount of money.
Uh
Okay so he gets no credit for Lohse—-how about 4/60 for Lowe, 126 for declining Zito, 5/60 for Millwood, Garrett Anderson 4/48, Drew 5/70, …..the draft stuff which contextually is better than the FA stuff: Luke Hochevar 5.3 with next to no leverage, the aformentioned Brackman needing Tommy John 4.5, Scherzer twice as much as Lincecum while being drafted behind him, Porcello getting basically the same NPV as Price, Arrieta throwing in the high-80s 1.4.
I think Weaver playing in a more extreme pitchers park with a supporting pitching coach in Mel Stottlemyer was the same thing…for more money.
somebody says well, he has boras, so he’ll never sign an extension and he’ll never come up for a reasonable amount of money.
You do realize that’s a compliment to how good he is at getting money right? No one even touch the loyalty thing, ask Bronson Arroyo or Mark DeRosa or Randy Johnson how loyal teams really are.
Is there risk from the player’s perspective, of course—-and for some reason we think that player’s don’t know this going in? And even then, I’m counting one guy who has seemingly gotten hosed in Varitek. Woe is him coming off of 4/40.
Not afraid to nitpick
i did give him credit for his high tier players.
i don’t think of drew and lowe as being mid-tier. and andruw jones and zito were once a stellar player. you’re confusing my original point, which was NOT that Boras doesn’t get big money for big players.
but the varitek issue is a huge one — as is being noted below, this was a guy who clearly had NO BUSINESS on the free market. this was boras putting his rep as someone who never compromises, never extends, never arbitrates ahead of his player’s interest.
and boras only got kyle lohse $4m to pitch in 2008. you didn’t really acknowledge that as a failing.
my point regarding his rep hurting his clients was not that boras doesn’t have the rep of getting good deals for his clients. my point was that his hardnosed rep could really hurt a 30-year-old outfielder who has a history of injuries. in many senses, rick would be best off getting a two- or three-year extension from the cards at a reasonable rate, then trying to cash in. as it is now, if rick’s hernia doesn’t let him play next year, rick may never make big money in the majors. boras will be fine, but a talented ballplayer will be out of luck.
Lohse and $4M
Actually, he ended up with just over $6M with incentives if I remember correctly. Also, how do you know there wasn’t a 3Y$22M deal on the table for Lohse and he simply thought he was worth more than that and signed a one year deal to prove himself? You simply don’t know that wasn’t the case.
Varitek may have gotten the short end of the stick this time, but he hasn’t been worth $40M over the life of the contract that he just finished so he’s been ahead money for quite a while now. He still may end up back in Boston as the starter for $5M — boo f***ing hoo, that’s still a pretty good amount of money for a washed up catcher. Some of this lies on the players side too, you know. Varitek was horrible last year — why did he think that someone was going to pay him what he made last year to be that horrible again, regardless of what his agent was telling him.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
per cot's
- 1 year/$4.25M (2008)
* signed as a free agent 3/14/08
* performance bonuses: $0.1M each for 160, 170, 180, 190, 200 IP
* $0.5M assignment bonus if traded
I can't find the link...
but I did read somewhere that his total cost last year came to $6.045M or something like that…I’ll keep looking. I’m not sure where the extra money came from, but I’ve seen Cot’s miss some small clauses before. I’m not saying they’re wrong, just saying I had seen a higher figure from a reputable source.l
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
he got a $1.25M signing bonus this year
Was that figured into his 2008 salary?
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Maybe this is the math
4.25 M salary
0.50 M performance bonus (200 IP in 2008)
1.25 M signing bonus on new contract (9/29/08)
6.00 M paid to Lohse Mar 08 – Oct 08
I was under the assumption
The Signing Bonus count against 09
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 28, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Not from an accounting standpoint
If the money was paid at the time of the signing, then I don’t know of any accounting method that would allow the cost to be pushed into the next calendar/fiscal year. It definitely would if he signed the contract after Jan 1.
I would assume they probably don't
For internal accounting I assume they do it by seasons not years.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 28, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
OK
How about a 32 year old outfielder coming off a .301 .343 .446 season in 112 games?
A 30 year old coming off a 4.35 FIP in 170 innings?
Scott Schoenweis 3/10.8?
Who? Who got screwed? It’s all I’m asking, not hypotheticals and “public opinions of players” and whatnot (which is garbage anyway); who aside from Varitek has gotten less money than they deserved? [I was literally typing what fourstick wrote about Lohse] And aside from that, it worked!
PS I like that Ankiel has enough confidence in himself to trust his talent to get him to the big payday.
Not afraid to nitpick
Forgot
I think it’s the guys with question marks with whom Boras does the best. Ordonez, Beltre, Drew, Jones, Gagne etc—-I know no one knows about it, but the Brackman deal is the most ridiculous thing this side of Samardzija.
Not afraid to nitpick
Interesting article
At the Hardball Times about the ethical standards of Scott Boras.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jan 28, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
As the author aludes to but flippantly tosses aside
The article could’ve been “The truth about Sports Agents” and it’s the same article, Sabathia’s agents also have Dunn, Burrell (is there a bigger conflict of interest than that??) and Penny. “Boras” leads to mouse clicks though. Possible conflicts of interest arise—-good luck finding an agent with baseball experience who doesn’t have players who might cross your path.
Not afraid to nitpick
boras schmoras
takes 2 to tango and somebody valued that player at that level. plenty of non-boras client’s out there
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Varitek got screwed over by Boras
All his players that he told to turn down Arbitration when they should of accepted it
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 28, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
especially Veritek
he’s not that great
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
not even decent anymore
he is nowhere near the hitter he used to be, and in my opinion his D has really slipped (really, when are they gonna get good metrics for catchers?), and yet in spite of that, he will probably still get 5M+ from the Red Sox
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
As a GM of a fantasy team who owned Varitek last year
I concur. Absolutely pitiful.
by Ray Lankford on Jan 28, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
doesnt surprise me a guy named Ray Lankford would have Varitek on his fantasy team
was Kennedy your 2nd basemen too?
yeah
we were a little too honorable there
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Garland, Perez, Wolf and Looper make...
HULK SMASH!!!!
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
Sorting through the left-overs
The Diamondbacks have signed John Garland.
The cubbies have traded for Aaron Heilman and are looking at Looper and Wolf.
The Mets are closing in on Oliver Perez and are also looking at Looper and Sheets.
The Dodgers seem to have the inside track at signing Randy Wolf.
And the Cardinals seem to be left sitting on sidelines as the mediocre starting pitcher market is heating up.
Can I bring up one more name I haven’t seen any rumors about for weeks, Yadel Marti. The guy’s made it to our country, says he’ll pitch any MLB team, and has a weird windup which is always fun. I honestly have no clue how good his stuff is since that’s the only video I could find of him pitching, but the track record for Cuban defectors has been fairly good (man I really wanted us to sign Alexei Ramirez last year). I love the numbers he put up in the last WBC, including starting the championship game against Dice-K. He’s started games and closed them so Tony has got to like that. Speaking of Tony I bet the guy would like to have a manager that can understand what he’s saying. He is getting an agent based out of Puerto Rico. Our club might have some connections there (Jose Oquendo and Edwardo Perez).
It’s a gamble, just like Sheets, but for presumably a lot less money. With what’s left out there I think he may represent the best chance to find that “Elusive Upside” we want at a cost the FO could stomach.
And after all that my first choice is still to SIGN BEN SHEETS.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jan 28, 2009 3:16 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Well, Odalis Perez and Adam Eaton are still out there.
oh, and Ben Sheets.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
puting BEN SHEETS in the same comment as those guys
show just how rediculous the FO is.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
where the hell did that Heilman trade come out of?
BEN SHEETS!!!!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Oh, man. I wanted Cedeno! I kind of wanted Heilman too.
I always wanted to see what Cedeno could do with some sustained playing time. Maybe nothing, but there’s something I like about him. Maybe we can get him from the M’s now……
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Would the Mariners be willing to take
Tony LaRussa for Ronny Cedeno, straight up?
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
uh, only if we threw in the entire Duncan family
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Marti
The possibility of a Yadel to Yadier battery is, alone, reason enough to sign this guy.
Yadel-Yadier, teaming up to retire all the Yunels, Yonders, Yunieskys, Yorvits and Yovanis of baseball.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jan 28, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yuliesky Gourriel
smuggle him out of Cuba.
by Czechguardsman on Jan 29, 2009 3:08 AM EST up reply actions
seriously?
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
too bad there aren't any Younts around any more
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill
I forgot about that guy.
If they aren’t going to sign Sheets, then I would have no problem with them signing him.
like everyone else said: SIGN BEN SHEETS!
I don't know about you guys...
but if I were in Mo’s position I’d be making every effort to
SIGN BEN SHEETS
by I Like Bob Dylan on Jan 28, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever Dan O'Neill is smoking, I want some of it.
I think it’s most probable Rasmus will start the season at Memphis, barring a spring training trade. However, should he look the part in spring, perhaps the Cardinals should move lefthanded-throwing Ryan Ludwick to third base.
I love Ludwick, but what?!?!
link?
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
stl today...
i didn’t recognize dan o’neill’s name. i guess he doesn’t normally write about baseball.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
that explains it
i don’t follow golf or general interests.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
HA!
We may not get to the World Series, but we’ll be tough to beat in slow-pitch softball.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Maybe we should just go sign that guy from
King and his Court, have him pitch from second base with his two outfielders. Seems like a good way to maximize payroll :-)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Cardinals will be going to arbitration with Ankiel
Mozeliak was on Slaten’s radio show yesterday and apparently only believes they will be able to work out a deal with Ludwick. Ankiel, however, they will have to go through the arbitration process with.
How long has their streak been with avoiding these?
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 4:42 PM EST reply actions
Mozeliak
if he really thinks Ankiel should be on this team going forward, should offer him a 4 year deal. Overpay this season ($5 M) and hope you are getting him at a discount with these rates for the next 3 years.
Otherwise, agree to his arbitration rate and trade him as soon as the team shows up in Jupiter.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
i'm listening to that interview now
and it’s doing nothing but jack my blood pressure through the motherhushyourmouth roof.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
just reflecting on the new signing . . .
jon garland’s pitching + an AZ infield of felipe lopez, conor jackson, stephen drew, and reynolds = groundball hits
i think jackson was the only one
Forget new signings. Mo needs to get us moved into the NL West again. we’ll be in the playoffs every year until 2025.
now THAT'S a creative solution ;)
Can’t beat ’em? Run away!
I’d love it if they played 16 games in SD/LA, though.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
We are officially out of the Manny Ramirez race
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 5:11 PM EST reply actions
i wish they would've used mo's full quote
“The answer is no, I rather live in my world then yours. First, it is not he stinks (unless he asks himself these questions in the mirror). We make decisions based on ticket sales, stats, and other information. If we thought Manny would take a home town discount, we would, I repeat, would make the deal. Go back to your world, and I hope by midsummer you’re ready to come to Busch for the All-Star festivities.”
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
This
We make decisions based on ticket sales
Is the key point. They are going to sell tickets this year even if they don’t sign Ben Sheets. Grumble grumble….
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
does this mean
chaos=diamondbacks?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 6:13 PM EST reply actions
Sheets will only be a disappointment
The guy is a great pitcher and all, but he is very injury-prone. The last thing that the Cardinals need is for Sheets to go down. What if Carp has another bad year? We’re then down 2 starters and left with question marks in our rotation – and then our entire staff is messed up, starters and the ’pen.
He seems like a great idea, but you guys that are wanting him should consider what risks the team would take if they signed him.
I'd rather be down two hurt starters
than starting the year counting on Joel Pineiro and one hurt starter.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 28, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
I think most here
have done a good job of analyzing the risks. The main problem is, it is someone else’s money. Risks just don’t seem to carry as much"kick" if the only thing you really stand to lose is the chance to root in October.
by Beardsville Rockers on Jan 28, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
what risks, exactly?
if we take sheets we have some chance that we will get no innings from sheets, a good chance for a partial season (around 20 starts) from sheets, and some chance that we will get a full season from him.
If we don’t take sheets, we have zero chance of getting any innings from sheets. but we save money. for what exactly? there aren’t really any helpful FA signings to be made. maybe we miss out on a nice trade, but nothing like that is currently on the radar. so the risk is that we miss out on an opportunity that as far as anyone knows doesn’t currently exist? if you said, we need to save the money to get X, yes, that’s a risk. Saying sheets costs money and may get injured and is therefore a risk doesn’t make sense unless your Bill DeWitt.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
my kingdom, my kingdome for an E D I T button
oh yeah, and
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
no need for an edit button when you have a
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
it's not all-powerful
when you post something sunday and read it again on tuesday and realize “o crap, i mixed up affect and effect again,” the preview button can’t fix it.
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill
differences
i can agree with mo that garland, looper, and wolfe may not prove any better than our existing number 5 candidates, not including our number 6 starter, el pinata. among free agents, only sheets is likely to be within striking distance financially and capable of making a real difference in our competitiveness. i’d prefer to trade for a comparable talent, but i don’t see that happening with the outfield glut on the FA market. hence, my ride on the uncle ben bandwagon.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
exactly what i've been thinking
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Even with injury history
He has still average 27 starts a year throughout his career. Even if he’s hurt some, I’d be willing to bet that Sheets would make at least 20 starts this year. I’d be pumped as hell to get 20 starts from Sheets this season. The more games we take away from Jo-El, the better.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 28, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
BEN SHEETS
in 20 starts would be about 3 time more valuable than Piniero.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
If we don't sign Sheets
odds are we won’t make the playoffs. If we do sign him and both he and Carp get hurt, we don’t make the playoffs. If we sign him, and he and/or Carpenter are healthy, we make the playoffs. If we make the playoffs, and both are healthy, we have 3 “aces” in the postseason.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
I would rather sign him to a multi year contract
while his value is low. If he takes a one year deal and pitches well again, he will get a ton of money in next years weak FA class. We all know about the risks, but it has been proven that even if he misses a significant time, he is more valuable than most pitchers. Give him a 3 year 27 million deal. Even if he pitches 400 innings over that span, he would be better than any other FA pitcher now.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Off Topic
I’m sitting here watching Duke/Wake on ESPN (sigh…can baseball get here soon enough?) and I’m realizing that my opinion of Dick Vitale peaked when I was about 13 years old and has been on a steady decline ever since. The same could be said for Chris Berman.
Ben Sheets?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
I remember hearing Dicky V give his take on the MVP this season
He picked Ryan Howard (of course). Because he has “sooooo many RBI’s”. He said he thought Albert was a great player, but Howard had “such a great September, he had to be the MVP”. (these quotes are basically what he said, not exact) Stick to basketball Dick.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...Oh yeah, and by the way....BEN SHEETS!!!!!
by RunninRedbird on Jan 28, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Berman and Vitale
Are both caricatures of themselves. They never evolved and are still pretending like it’s 1992 and they’re fresh and original.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
the only really good one
at ESPN (baseball commentator) is, in my opinion, Karl Ravech. He was also very courteous to me, in the gift shop, at the 2004 WS. He’s very short tho.
Ravi is one of the few pro Cards people at the WWL
i think that’s because he’s from the midwest, but i’m just guessing here. i don’t really know.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
BEN SHEETS!!!
no ?
and yeah, Chris Berman went out of style shortly after coining Tommy “BEN” SHEETS!!! Herr
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
that was a hell of an ending to the game though
too bad Duke ran out of gas & time
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Ben Sheets
So it’s about 6 weeks until we trade Nick Stavinoha + for Brian Roberts. The robutt is right, what a lineup.
I’m one of those intolerable fence-sitters: the last roster transaction I would have wanted to see during this coldest of hot stove seasons = a trade of Rasmus for a late-contract-known-quantity. Also, predictably, I feel sick thinking that some of Mr. Pujols’ best years don’t include aggressive championship-quality roster building.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Jan 28, 2009 8:59 PM EST reply actions
Every year
is Mr. Pujol’s best year.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
there really isn’t any reason to think he’s going to have a huge dropoff soon
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
heh
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 9:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
HAHAHAHAHA
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 28, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
that was already posted on a fanshot
My favorite response was from Tupelo
Wasn’t me…I’d have written Ben Sheets.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
photoshop sign ben sheets
and forward it to mo
"The only thing that matters is that we win the World Series." - A.Pujols
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 28, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Tony is still pissed he didn't get an "impact bat"
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 28, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this is very good
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
i will pay 9000000000000000000000000000000000 internet dollars
for one of you locals to put MO SIGN BEN SHEETS right above it.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
cuz if you can't beat them
write their names in the snow ;)
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Jan 29, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
on second thought
NO
BEN SHEETS
speaks for itself.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
How
appropriate is it that these pix are in a thread titled “Snow Day Musings”?!?
Chaos = Garland
Remember, though, that he only becomes Chaos after you follow the Time-Loop from the Temple of Fiends back 2000 years. Or when he signs with Arizona and has to pitch in front of that infield.
(That is an old-school NES reference, right?)
- VEB Alpha Nerd
by I Like Bob Dylan on Jan 28, 2009 9:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That Arizona infield
is just unholy. Brandon Webb will not win 10 games, you heard it from me first.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 28, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Unholy
But very holey
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 28, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Garland/Chaos
Except we wouldn’t know that with the time loop broken!
Technically, isn’t Mel Brooks the best candidate to be Garland?
--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com
by D.Szymborski on Jan 29, 2009 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
Spiezio to talk
tomorrow on the ITD Morning After, 1380 AM in STL.
I can’t wait. Seriously.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
My attempt to make a case against Ben Sheets
OK. So I’m pretty much trying to do this to play devil’s advocate since everyone has gone WAY overboard on the sign Ben Sheets bandwagon (even though I think we should sign him if the price is anywhere near what we are paying Kyle Lohse.)
Basically…before last season, 2004 was the last time that Sheets was playing for a contract. After the 2004 season, he signed a 1 year/ $6 million deal to avoid arbitration. He was then signed to an extension worth $38.5 million over 4 years (voiding the previous contract).
His best season was 2004. Excluding 2006, in which he only threw 17 games and 106 innings, 2004 was his only season with a WHIP below 1, ERA below 3, his lowest FIP, his highest K/9 and K/BB, and his only time receiving Cy Young votes (finishing 8th.)
After signing his big contract, Mr. Sheets went on to 404 innings in 3 years in only 63 starts. His numbers were good, but not as good. Finally, we get to 2008. Sheets, in a contract year (surprise, surprise), decides he is able to throw over 30 games and nearly 200 innings again, posting a lower ERA and a decent FIP.
Recently (in 2007-08) his peripherals have not been nearly as good. His BABIP has gone down, but it could go back up. His K/BB rate is much worse (around 3 for the two years combined, whereas it was above 8, 5, and 10 the previous three seasons, respectively. His K/9, BB/9, and K/BB have all been on the wrong side of his career averages.
Sheets is entering his age 30 season, so he is on the wrong side of his prime (or close to it), so a long term deal is probably not very favorable for the ballclub handing it out.
Lastly, none of the three respected projection services have him throwing 200+ innings this season, only one over 175, and one below 150. They vary on his K/BB numbers with one at just under 4, one at just under 3, and one at about 2.5. They all have his FIP higher than last year’s and above his career average. Also, the three projection services have his BABIP higher than the last two seasons’ numbers were.
(I hope I didn’t embarrass myself too badly there, using fangraph numbers that I am currently in the process of learning more about.)
I have just a couple of counter-points
1)
Finally, we get to 2008. Sheets, in a contract year (surprise, surprise), decides he is able to throw over 30 games and nearly 200 innings again, posting a lower ERA and a decent FIP.
I really hope you aren’t saying that Sheets decides to stay healthy during contract years. His health is pretty much out of his control and I’m pretty certain that he didn’t want to be injured the previous 3 years.
2) We all know that Sheets won’t pitched 200 innings. Well he might, but no one is expecting it. That being said the most pessimistic projection for Sheets, CHONE, has him at 148 innings and a 3.84 FIP. That is a very pessimistic projection, especially on the performance side as Sheets had a 3.38 FIP last year. However even that projection would make Sheets as 2.9 WAR player. The most optomistic projection for Sheets is 186 innings and a 3.46 FIP. That would make Sheets roughly a 4 WAR player next year. For comparisons sake, Kyle Lohse last year in 200 innings was a 3.1 WAR player, Oliver Perez had a 1.3 WAR and Braden Looper had a 1.7 WAR. To make it even better, the guy who Sheets would be replacing next year, Piniero, is projected for 0.9 WAR in 09.
WE ALL KNOW HE IS GOING TO BE INJURED. That is why is so affordable. But even if he is injured he would be much more valuable than any FA starter out there and he would be netting us anywhere between 2-3 wins replacing Piniero.
SIGN BEN SHEETS
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
yes & the biggest reason why we all want him is, now he's freaking cheap
he’s going to be hurt, hence the cheap price. we know this & have come to peace with ti.
and since the Cards are the kings of low hanging fruit, signing BEN SHEETS makes perfect sense.
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
back at ya
I’m not saying he chooses (or decides) to be hurt or healthy. I’m saying that in his two contract years, he has somehow found a way to throw enough innings to make himself much more valuable to potential suitors. Maybe he wasn’t hurt those years. Maybe he had the same feelings of pain and decided to play through it for a payday. I don’t know. I’m just sayin’.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Jan 29, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
it's glorious
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
His best season was 2004. Excluding 2006, in which he only threw 17 games and 106 innings, 2004 was his only season with a WHIP below 1, ERA below 3, his lowest FIP, his highest K/9 and K/BB, and his only time receiving Cy Young votes (finishing 8th.)
and so forth. those numbers were badass. throw out cy young votes, because his shitty team gave him no run support. he’s ben sheets, dude. ben gdmfn sheets. he’s ben sheets. come the fuck on. you know better, right?
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
Sign Ben Sheets
If the Cards sign Ben Sheets, most of us will be happy with what the FO has done this offseason, well I will at least. Look at this rotation.
1. Carpenter
2. Sheets
3. Wainright
4. Wellemeyer
5. Lohse
Not going to lose too many games in a row unless the bullpen sucks again, which it might. Trusting a rookie to close is kinda crazy
by sheets in cardinal red on Jan 29, 2009 1:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
weren't very good closers available this year
I mean, we weren’t going to get K-Rod and he’s probably overrated anyway
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
i'd prefer
1. wainwright
2. carpenter
3. sheets
4. wellemeyer
5. lohse
but thats just me.
wouldn’t it be awesome if that was what we had to argue about?
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
shit
i should’ve read your whole post before i replied.
Not going to lose too many games in a row unless the bullpen sucks again, which it might. Trusting a rookie to close is kinda crazy
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
I dunno
The World Series clincher was a better moment, for sure. As far as just the pitch goes, and who the batter was, this one is hard to top.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 29, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
the WS was awesome
but that was Carlos ******* Beltran in the box. AW striking out CFB is probably the highlight of my cardinals-watching career.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 29, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I rate it higher than striking out
Gorman Thomas.
Does Gorman deserve a ******* , too?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Frozen Pizza!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Any option is better than throwing a rookie out there
I hope Perez turns into a Papelbon situation for us, did he pitch the 8th for a year under Foulke, I cannot remember?
by sheets in cardinal red on Jan 29, 2009 1:40 AM EST reply actions
on for like 20 innings
Unfortunately though, Perez doesn’t have the control of Bon-papel.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
closers need their confidence to be high in order to save games
my fear is that Perez or Motte blows a couple of saves in a row early in the season and lose their confidence. Then we are stuck with Franklin closing again, and we all know what that means. 30 plus blown saves again this year. OUCH
by sheets in cardinal red on Jan 29, 2009 1:43 AM EST reply actions
I think if the situation ends up being that drastic (which I don't think it will be, since both of those guys got exp. last year)
we will make a trade at the deadline; we have a ton of options to trade from still. (reply button is to the right of the username)
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 29, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
i heard there are a few veteran closers available.
isringhausen. I think we can still get gagne.
come on, that’s pop closer psychology. that’s not backed up by anything. the world is full of “established, confident” closers who crap out without notice. and there are guys like lidge who crap out and come back better. there’s nothing there. and certainly nothing that says rookies can’t close.
i don't want a closer
who will lose confidence after a few blown saves.
your awesome handle is so far negated by your blatant disuse of the reply button and the fact that you are coming off as a drunken joe strauss.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
Just playing devil's advocate
Franklin wouldn’t be a terrible closer. There is really nothing that makes the 9th any harder than the 7th or 8th, except for the psychological factor. Franklin does have that salty, old, veteran calmness to him, and while he may get hit around at times, he usually keeps a level head and doesn’t give up many free passes.
Personally, I would rather not have Perez or Motte handicapped by the closer role because it would take away there abilities to get out of jams via the strikeout. In my mind your best reliever shouldn’t be your closer unless it is a guy like Pablebon of Rivera who come in in the 8th to get out of a jam and then finish the game. I don’t see La Russa stretching out Perez or Motte more than and inning, ergo, it would make more sense to use them a situational setup men.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
just playing angel's advocate, i guess
but franklin sucked in the ninth last year, i don’t know if you guys were watching those games or not… oh, you were, ok. good.
so you saw that too. you too, vivaelpujols, yeah? wtf?
and larussa/duncan aren’t going to just give one of the young guys the closer spot. it will be a closer by committee.
why do i think that? because that’s what duncan fucking said, people. i don’t have a link to a radio show, but i heard it a few weeks ago.
kinney/motte/perez, unless one excels or falls off during spring training, straight from the lips of the pitching genius.
write it down, stick it on your face. this team doesn’t have a “closer”. hopefully one of the candidates takes over the role by May so there will be some sanity out there beyond right field.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
Your missing the point of my comment
I was saying that the idea of a 9th inning closer in itself is flawed. Franklin was very good in a setup role in 07, and he pitched well in the other innings this year. Do you think that the reason that he sucked so much in the 9th had to do with it being a harder inning, or just a coincidence?
There is no point in handicapping a strikeout pitcher like Motte or Perez JUST for the 9th. Better them used situationally to get out of jams, where there strikeouts and lack of hits will help them get out of jams rather then strikeout the side in the 9th.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 4:02 AM EST up reply actions
yes
i do think the reason that franklin sucked so much in the ninth had to do with it being a harder inning.
and i think motte and perez are better equipped for that glorious inning.
the idea of “handicapping” a strikeout pitcher is a little bit, well, retarded. Especially when those pitchers haven’t exactly gotten out of those jams so far consistently.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
Problem!
i do think the reason that franklin sucked so much in the ninth had to do with it being a harder inning.
What about the fact that Franklin sucked worse in the 8th than the 9th? And he was even worse than that after the 9th (in a smaller sample size).
8th inning: .304/.373/.473 (127 PA)
9th inning: .254/.322/.470 (150 PA)
10th inning+: .368/.442/.553 (43 PA)
Seems to me Franklin was something of a 9th inning specialist last year.
Franklin kinda sucks, period.
No matter what inning he’s pitching in. Had we not signed him to his ridiculous contract we could have offered Springer arbitration and brought him back this year.
Anyone want to argue that our bullpen wouldn’t be better with Springer instead of Franklin?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Franklin has had ERA's in low 3's in the last 2 years
His pheripherals haven’t been great, but he’s been able to have some good success with us. I would rather have Springer, but Franklin is a pretty good pitcher.
vivaelbensheets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 29, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I'll drop a little knowledge then
Springer was very good in 2007 — far better than he has been any other year in his career. In 2008 however his numbers are deceiving:
He allowed an .835 OPS and 9 home runs in 259 PA’s in Late & Close situations. He had a 36/23 K/BB ratio in those appearances. That’s not very good at all. Chris Perez allowed a .754 OPS in 99 PA’s Late & Close and allowed a .436 OPS after coming back up late in the year (42 PA’s, SSS alert)
His FIP was a little better than league average in 2007: 3.96. But last year it ballooned to 4.75, which tells me he was a whole lot more reliant on the defense than he was in 2007, and his WHIP went up nearly 40 points while his K/BB went from 4.00 in 2007 (WAY outside his career norm by the way) to 1.70. He didn’t miss as many bats an walked a whole lot more people last year than the year before.
If you’re ever expecting the 2007 Ryan Franklin to return I think you are holding a lot of false hope. He egregiously outperformed his career norms in every metric related to individual performance, then dropped about halfway back toward his career norms last season. He’s simply not a very good pitcher, and we shouldn’t be counting on him in late inning situations. He SHOULD be pulling a Thompson role playing mop up duty when the game is out of reach in either direction.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Sorry...FRANKLIN
is the subject of that post…jesus I’m out of it today
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
There is a reason we use Franklin
as a synonym for beers
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Yo, RB!
Garland signed with the D-Backs.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Feb 1, 2009 11:38 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
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