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Getting Bobby Bonillaed

Someone asked a bizarre question of the Commish a few days ago, in the immediate aftermath of the Troy Glaus surgery. I'll pull it:

Q: Hello Mr. Hummel. With the Glaus injury being the latest news on the Cardinal injury list, who can blame Cardinal ownership for not buying into some of these questionable, but tempting FA players that are still not signed? While Glaus is out, what do you think the Cards will do if one of these younger guys (Wallance or Freese) has a massive Spring, makes the big club and carries it over into the season? It could easily happen. recall Terry Pendleton's success when he first arrived in 1984. No one could get him out. Then you have Pujols in 2001. Do you have any thoughts about how this could all shake out if such a scenario occurred?

Well, I certainly don't think it could easily happen. The thing about Wally Pipp, the now-verbed first baseman famous for losing his job to Lou Gehrig, is that he was a good player but not a great one, a steady-at-best type who lost his job to a great player. Some revisions of the story mention his two home run crowns, earned in the height of the Dead Ball era, but that's giving the Wally Pipp who got himselfed that fateful day a little too much credit; by 1925 he was 32, coming off a number of unimpressive seasons; if anything it's like Richie Sexson losing his job to somebody last year. 

Or Bobby Bonilla losing his job to somebody in 2001. It's not often the player who does the Pipping ends up one of the five best first basemen of all time—mostly just those two times—but as a blog thought experiment the idea of Troy Glaus, who's not Wally Pipp, getting ousted by David Freese, who is certainly not Lou Gehrig, is, at least, worth considering. The way I see it, there are two issues with any possible Pipp candidate: timing and talent.

Pippee: Chris Duncan; Pipper: Joe Mather; Problem: Timing. An issue with Wally Pipping as a concept is that the clean breaks you get with the Gehrigs and Pujolses of the world rarely happen unless you've got Lou Gehrig or Albert Pujols. Chris Duncan's replacement, after his 2008 slump, was really several players, but stylistically and logistically his replacement was Mather, another big, late-blooming home run hitter. 

Commenter TheBirds wrote what is perhaps my favorite description of the Duncan/Mather dynamic about a month ago, when he said "I would call them Superman and Bizarro; guess who's Bizarro."

It's a perfect comparison. Mather is broad-shouldered, fast, and graceful. He doesn't just look like a baseball player; he looks like someone's caricature of a baseball player. Duncan is the same size, but he's slow and slope-shouldered; in the outfield he looks like the before shot in infomercials, where a woman filmed in harsh black and white is fumbling with a telephone or an old ab machine or barbells. Most importantly, though, they have the same powers; Duncan's career OPS, even after his disastrous 2008, is still .840. 

Mather's problem, as a potential Pipp, is just that—not only is he not demonstrably better than a hypothetically healthy Chris Duncan, that's not his only competition. Pipps are chosen in hindsight, and if Mather surprises and wins a job in the outfield this year and in the years to come we'll remember 2008 as the year Chris Duncan got hurt and lost his job. If he doesn't, it'll just be the year they called Mather up and he played 50 games. 

Freese hasn't got as much trouble as Mather here—if he hits well in Spring Training, his only competition for playing time at the position will be Troy Glaus. But like Mather his only clear advantage is being younger and cheaper.

Pippee: Fernando Viña; Pipper: Bo Hart; Problem: Talent. I worked at the State Fair in August 2003, when Bodhimania was in full swing, and I'll never forget the first time I saw a kid come up the stairs of the Giant Slide, where I was posted, wearing a Bo Hart jersey. I was stunned that the Cardinals were able to manufacture them so quickly; more than that, I was stunned that the kid and his mother (they were riding together) had not considered the possibility that buying a Bo Hart jersey a month after his call-up might not be a great wardrobe longevity decision. 

Viña to Hart is the perfect Wally Pipp situation; Viña was a very good second baseman who'd fallen off and was now injured, and Hart came in in midseason and caught everyone's imagination. Unfortunately, Hart just wasn't very good. No amount of fan goodwill could vault him past the Tony Womacks of the world, and if you're getting Bo Harted by the likes of Tony Womack you're just not going to be Wally Pipping anybody. 

Freese is better than Hart, who was stretched as a utility infielder, but to Pipp Glaus he's going to have to convince the Cardinals that they're ready to trade a third baseman who put up an OPS+ of 124 last year. The bar is a lot higher. 

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OT

mlb tv ran some old highlight reels of the cards world series wins in 44 and 46. must be some kind of complement to the 06 series broadcasts, but cool nonetheless.

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Jan 26, 2009 9:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I watched....

It was great! especialy after they showed the 04 series.

by hghallstar on Jan 26, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

perfect prose for a bleary eyed Monday morning

and if you’re getting Bo Harted by the likes of Tony Womack you’re just not going to be Wally Pipping anybody

if you can’t trust a southern lawyer cooking a kosher meal in a dumpster,
well, then, the world has grown far too cynical

by RosevilleRedbird on Jan 26, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think you missed the obvious one DanUp

Pippee: Ankiel, Pipper: Rasmus, Problem — It hasn’t happened yet AND injuries

If Ankiel has a first half like he did last season (20 HR or so), gets hurt, and then Rasmus comes up and mashes in the leadoff spot in his place, Ankiel might not get his job back when he returns and would have a good chance of getting dealt at that point as well. If Ank was truly the 30 HR masher that we at VEB think he is it would be a very apt comparison.

Nice job on the Bo Hart reference though!

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 26, 2009 9:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ank will get his job back

it just might be in a different part of the field but not the bench like Pipp…Skip is the one who needs to be worried about that.

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber

by nomar34 on Jan 26, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

situational

Against lefties-

Ludwick
Mather
Barton

Righties-

Duncan
Rasmus/skip
Ankiel

TLR is going to suprise people with his OF line-ups this year, IMO. There are a lot of combos in play. With Barton being a righty with good speed and the TRL mentality, he will get a lot of playing time against lefties.;

by hghallstar on Jan 26, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good point

Barton often gets left out of the OF debates.

by spencegrif on Jan 26, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Which is a shame...

because I really think he could be the long term solution at lead off hitter. The guy walks a lot, his OBP was almost 90 points higher than his BA, and by his minor league numbers, that’s low for him (usually 100 points).

With him batting first and Rasmus second, Albert could have 150 rbis a year!

Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)

by DiscoJer on Jan 26, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not this year

There is just no way the cards can carry enough OFs in 2009 to justify having Barton in the bigs. He’ll have to spend a year in Memphis until Ankiel is gone or another player gets moved. Clearly, Ankiel and Ludwick are ahead of him on the depth chart. Skip is too, and unless Rasmus tanks in ST, you have to imagine he’ll start with the big club. Even that gives 4 OFs and no mention of Mather or Duncan. I certainly agree that Barton should play a big role with this team after 2009, but it’s just too crowded right now.

by Cardaholic on Jan 28, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Ludwick, Rasmus and Ank...

will all play nearly everyday (once Rasmus is called up) unless Ank proves unable to handle lefties. In that case Mather would likely platoon with Ank. To start the year we may very well see a good mix of lineups, but I would be surprised if Ludwick and Ankiel don’t start nearly every game.

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Jan 26, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you can't have 7 outfielders

on you roster….can you?

i mean i know you can…but why would you

and it would be silly to plattoon rasmus….he hit both rh and lh well in the minors

by VolsnCards5 on Jan 26, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose you can if..

Mather is your backup 1B/2B/3B and Skip is your third 2B.

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Jan 26, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

except

Duncan will probably start the season in AAA I would think

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be folly

to platoon Luddy as he has reverse splits throughout his career including 2008 when he OPS’d .985 vs. RHPs. Of course, TLR can be pretty stubborn about this type of thing and he did try to platoon him early in 2008.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with Duncan. If he is healthy in ST then I am pretty sure TLR will include him on the opening day roster and play him regularly, at least vs. RHPs. That certainly would mean there would be no room on the big-league roster for Barton as his primary value would be to platoon in the lead-off role with Skip. If Duncan is healthy, it would seem to make sense to move Ank and maybe Schu, put Rasmus in CF and bat him lead-off. That would make Mather the platoon guy with Duncan and leave the fifth OF spot to Schumaker or possibly Barton.

Don’t misunderstand me, I think Duncan should absolutely start the season in AAA irrespective of his ST performance. I just don’t think that will happen if he is healthy and productive in ST. If Schu is the LH lead-off hitter that means Rasmus is probably in AAA and it would make sense to platoon Barton with Skip in LF. I just don’t think TLR is going to play Barton regularly – we might see some pretty surprising lead-off hitters this year vs. LHPs.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jan 26, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're assuming Skip would still have his job anyway

If Rasmus is leading off, why does Skip even play if Mather and Duncan are hitting well? If a Mather/Duncan platoon is mashing then does Ank play anywhere? I have a hard time believing that they aren’t looking to move him if that happened to be the case….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 26, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ST will decide a lot of that-

Skippy’ll get some reps at 2nd. I don’t see Mather AND Dunc outhitting Ank, assuming all is healthy, but I could be wrong. And if it is the case, I would think the Cards would at least look at moving Dunc and not Ank.

by WyoCardsFan on Jan 26, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

your assuming barton would lose his job

I cant wait to see these guys compete in march. Should be very interesting to see what happens.

by hghallstar on Jan 26, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It should be interesting

Especially if all these guys are aware of these issues and decide to put in some extra work during the off-season, coming to ST prepared to the max, this could be a lot of fun.

by Woodwork on Jan 26, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

winter ball

did barton get any at bats this winter? if not, i suspect he starts in memphis.

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Jan 26, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan is not an outfielder

He is a 1st baseman in the outfield so he should sit and should be a backup 1st baseman and pitch hitter.

by leftcoastfan on Jan 27, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But he is pretty lousy

at 1B as well. He showed signs of improving in LF last year except for that one horrific game against Milwaukee. He’ll never be a good OF, but the bar is not that high in LF. I hope they let him prove his health and find his stroke in Memphis, but I imagine he will be in LF if he can walk.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jan 27, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and that game in colorado when pinero? or looper maybe

gave him the stare down and was pulled
I remember the game i was really tired that day

*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets

I must be getting a Sheets cold.

by bearcatcardfan on Jan 28, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone that thinks Rasmus has a chance of making the 25 man roster

if Ankiel and Duncan are upright and mobile is going to be in for a sad realization come April 5th.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 26, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If for no other reason

Arby clock doesn’t need to start when he’d be a marginal upgrade if at all.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he goes down to Memphis

he’s not coming up until someone gets hurt.

Ankiel, Duncan and Skippy could all put up OPS+ of 78 and Colby is staying in Memphis. Tony’s like House, he doesn’t like change and he’ll put relief pitchers in the OF to prove his point. Or fire Chase.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 26, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I thought you were wrong.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Jan 26, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What about Wallace?

Nice post.

I don’t think Freese can Pip Glaus. Even if Freese hits, they’d put Glaus back in to try to show he is healthy so they can trade him.

Here’s another scenario:

Glaus ends up missing 2-3 months, which is possible.

Then suppose Freese does not do very well filling in. If he struggles a bit making the jump to the bigs, and if he has some bad luck on balls in play, he could easily be hitting .215 with a ton of strikeouts after the first month.

Let’s say Wallace crushed the ball in spring training and is hitting .350 with power in AAA. Freese keeps struggling. Glaus is still out.

At some point, Wallace has to come up. Let’s say Wallace comes up, stays hot. When Glaus comes off the DL, if Wallace is hitting .290/.375/.480, then things get awkward.

While this is not a likely scenario, it certainly is not improbable.

I really feel for Freese. He has a month or two opportunity to establish he belongs in the bigs. If he has a cold month or two—and even a great player can—his career could effectively be over. At 26 he doesn’t have many chances left.

That’s pressure. I’m rooting for him.

And cut the mom who bought her kid the Hart jersey some slack…

When you have kids, their clothing has little longevity anyway. They outgrow them. If Bo Hart was the star of little Billy’s first game, and he loves wearing his Bo Hart shirt, you get it for him.

by tarakas on Jan 26, 2009 9:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

mark it down!

Wallace will be the next Lou Gehrig…only not a first baseman…or built like a greek god…or movie star good looks…or throwing left handed…or having a horrible disease named after him…but yeah everything else will be just like Lou!

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber

by nomar34 on Jan 26, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Iron Walrus

Seriously, Gehrig really could have been a movie star. Just look at the guy:

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really do think he looked like

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 26, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that is a young

Gary Cooper

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 26, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he should have played

Gehrig in a movie…

"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber

by nomar34 on Jan 26, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

harhar

He looks so different here.

by spants on Jan 26, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he looks

like a Baldwin.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 26, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He totally

does. Before they got old and puffy. So, maybe more like Billy.

by spants on Jan 26, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

this pains me terribly

Take off the yankees cap, give him a ponytail, and younger steven seagal would be a dead ringer:

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 26, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Segal

has ever smiled that much.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 27, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would rather.....

have bought a Bo Hart jersey than a Mark Mulder.

by hghallstar on Jan 26, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

interesting point in DanUp's post

an ironic comment, buying a jersey that will go out of style soon in a kid’s size… isn’t that what it’s supposed to do?

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was at a Cardinals/Braves game a couple of years ago in Atlanta

and I saw a Cardinals fan on the way to the stadium wearing a gray, Eli Marrero #26 road jersey. That’s the most obscure jersey I’ve ever seen at a game.

The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs

by jd is legend on Jan 26, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

alwears wear the McGee 51

but if it is a big game and i am there in person (WS game 5 06 ,NLCS game 7 04, etc) I always wear my white Bo Hart jersey. Not only have we never lost when I’ve worn it, I have never had it on and not gotten at least one positive comment from a fellow fan

by Retire51 on Jan 26, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I saw a King

and a Flores

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 26, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

double barf

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa

by adiueordie on Jan 27, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My 1st real jersey

was a Steve Kline #44. Got lots of nice comments on that one. I haven’t bought one since, but I’ll probably go a little more mainstream this time…

by I Like Bob Dylan on Jan 27, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Time for Kline

to come out of retirement, see if he can be our LOOGY again.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

easy answer
At some point, Wallace has to come up. Let’s say Wallace comes up, stays hot. When Glaus comes off the DL, if Wallace is hitting .290/.375/.480, then things get awkward.

Wallace Pips Glaus, Glaus Pips Kennedy ;)

Seriously though, someone will need a 3B in May/June, even one with a (recent) injury history. Since he’s only on a 1-year deal and will likely be a type A, he’ll have at least some value. I can’t imagine it’ll be that hard to move Glaus, and it’ll free up 7-8M for a deadline acquisition or draft pick.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 26, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but...

there will likely be a couple of weeks where Glaus has to prove he is healthy. And Tony will want to play the vet. Wallace would probably have to sit until the Glaus situation is settled. This would get awkward if it goes on too long (sitting a .290/.375/.480 player), and all of your trading partners know you have to make a deal, so your return might not be that great.

by tarakas on Jan 26, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Once Glaus comes back

I would bet Wallace (in this scenario) would be sent back to AAA to keep his bat hot. He’s got all of his options. But here’s the thing….it ain’t gonna happen. No matter how good Wallace mashes in ST, I just don’t see him making the roster to open the season. It’s Freese or a FA.

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Freese probably won't Pipp Glaus

But he will more than likely be above replacement level in the time he will fill in for him. I could see Wallace being a potential Pipper out of anyone here. He could steal the starting job from Freese outta ST, then not give it back to Glaus once he’s healthy. It’s not more than likely not probable due to Wallace’s defense being below average at this point in time. But, it is not out of the realm of possibilites.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Jan 26, 2009 9:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

a decent post idea

would be how many college position player draftees end up making a meaningful contribution in the bigs their first full year of pro ball.

by spencegrif on Jan 26, 2009 9:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmmm

I can think of one right off the top of my head — Pete Incaviglia. Nobody else comes to mind though…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 26, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Will Clark

comes to mind

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Jan 26, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm an idiot...

Bob Horner, J.D. Drew (if you don’t count his drafting by Philadelphia), Will Clark, Paul Molitor, Ryan Zimmerman, and Barry Bonds would be some other ones.

There’s a couple of third baseman there too, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm…. :-)

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 26, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I imagine

there aren’t many HS guys who accomplished that feat.

by spencegrif on Jan 26, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ken Griffey Jr.

Is the only one I can think of…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 26, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"there aren’t many HS guys who accomplished that feat." Bullshit...

I don’t think there are any HS guys out there that could hold Bob Horners Spatula when it comes to flippin waffles and eating them at the same time.

*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*

by Red Blazer on Jan 26, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not David Clyde

Of course, he went straight from high school to the big leagues with Texas in 1973. He also pitched some for Cleveland but never panned out.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jan 26, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Winfield

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 26, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Winfield

was one of the most unbelievable athletes i have ever seen.

by njnick on Jan 26, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dave Winfield

not Chipper Jones Winfield

but yeah nj, Winfield was a complete badass. He is one of the few Yankees that I actually liked.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 26, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad he went into the Hall as a Padre

And gave Steinbrenner hell every time he could. And then there was the whole dead seagull episode…

by random on Jan 27, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Robin Ventura?

I think he played in the minors for a few months, was called up, and then never left. Great college baseball player (and good pro, too).

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 26, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't make a meaningful contribution right away though

He really wasn’t an impact player until his second full year in the big leagues.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 26, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

they retire your bro's number yet?

For crying out loud MO if you arent going to make some moves at least make room on the left field wall for #51

by Retire51 on Jan 26, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm telling you

they’ll end up doing it around 2015. Once all of the young adults who grew up on Willie and Ozzie are a little bit older and have more disposable income, they’ll have a Willie McGee night, retire his number, and sell hundreds of thousand of dollars of worthless memorabilia to us.

And a glorious day it will be.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 26, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

too lazy too look up....

maybe Chase Utely.

-still upset that we passed on him for a 2b out of highschool.

by hghallstar on Jan 26, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

...is not a position player.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 26, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And I

didn’t read the post closely enough.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jan 26, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Love the infomercial image.

I’m going to start referring to Joe Mather as “ShamWow!”

by mattybobo on Jan 26, 2009 10:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I love all the verb usage
and if you’re getting Bo Harted by the likes of Tony Womack you’re just not going to be Wally Pipping anybody.

by Toddius on Jan 26, 2009 10:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just watched

the episode of “How I Met Your Mother”, where they talk about “Tedding out” and “Tedding it up”

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Would you rather be Pipped or pull a Merkle?

At least Wally Pipp never cost the Yankees a pennant. On the other hand, Fred Merkle did go on to have a pretty nice career.

by Youneverknow on Jan 26, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

One could pull a Ruth.

Babe Ruth made the final out in the ’26 World Series by getting caught stealing 2nd base.

by spants on Jan 26, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ruth

Couldn’t you say Ankiel has pulled a Ruth, to a tiny degree?

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jan 26, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've been working "Munsoned" into my vocabulary for quite a while now.

So far, I’m having little success getting it to catch on.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jan 26, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I use

it sometimes. It’s a big hit when someone gets it.

by Toddius on Jan 26, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Munson

catcher – tragic death…..

Sketchy choice IMO.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jan 26, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't tell if you are kidding

So I’ll clarify: Its a reference to the movie Kingpin, not Thurmon Munson.

Geez, didn’t think I’d get Urbina’d for that reference.

/kidding.

by Ray Lankford on Jan 26, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Too soon? (re: Urbina)

The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs

by jd is legend on Jan 26, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

can we flag comments like this

bowled over ? Kingpin…you are better than that Ray Lankford

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 26, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, Ok

I’ll Spare you from any more puns.

by Ray Lankford on Jan 26, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was kinda hoping to get an okay on the flagging

then I could have expanded it to “DeWallet” and “low hanging fruit” and of course people who LOL their own comments.

/pause rant

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 27, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

too late

I like puns, I went ahead and rec’d it

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 27, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

OT: Teahan moving from RF to 2B

interesting.

Don’t see how it’ll work, though. He was a bad 3B and doesn’t have the right body type, unlike Skip.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 26, 2009 12:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

when contacted for comment, teahen said,

“I just got sick of those guys on Viva El Birdos saying that anybody could play 2b. And then I said, who better to prove that than me?”

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

His bat has played at 2nd...

…most of his career. To bad his Mark Teahan doesn’t.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 26, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Skip Schumaker

is trying to Mark Teahan his way into the lineup.

by Toddius on Jan 26, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

even more interesting

Royals sign Greinke to a 4yr/38M deal. Interesting day in KC.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 26, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That is

a seriously backloaded contract – $3.75 million this year, $13.5 million in 2011 and 2012. I understand the advantage of backloading for the team, but to my mind Greinke’s still not far enough detached from his mental and physical problems to be considered established enough. That seems like a pretty risky contract, and if he has trouble the first couple years they’re going to have a really tough time trading him. Of course if all that stuff is behind him, it could be a steal of a contract by 2012. I guess that’s how long-term contracts to pitchers go….

by BTown Birds fan on Jan 26, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's also something of a statement deal

First decent young player they haven’t let walk in a long time. As a KC resident it’s kind of exciting to see them do something like this.

by birdo rojo on Jan 26, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's great...

but I don’t see KC being able to hold on to him for those last two years.

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Jan 26, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mather in the OF...

Wouldn’t Mather have a better shot than advertised at making the outfield? He’s seemingly our only RH OF option not named Ludwick… seems someone who values match-ups as much as TLR would boost Joey Bomb’s appeal.

by AndyB83 on Jan 26, 2009 1:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Brian Barton

is being overlooked by EVERYONE!!!!!

by hghallstar on Jan 26, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

Not to be redundant or anything, but in my eyes the only thing Barton did last year was prove that deserves a shot at starting and leading off this year. Obviously, that was then and this is now — we have too many good OFs to really start Barton right now, I understand that. But still, I’m personally of the belief that Barton is a seriously valuable player and could post a .300/.400/.420 (.820 OPS) line if he was given a chance.

He’s got speed coming out of his ears, he takes walks, and he’s got more pop that Skippy (higher isolated power last year). Poor guy got dicked around a lot last year because of Rule 5 regulations, and now he’s stuck six guys back on a depth chart. I think it’s a shame, because I really like him as a player and I think he’s a better option at leadoff than Skippy.

by mojowo11 on Jan 26, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+10000

Barton’s career line in the minors is .314/.413/.475 with 83 steals. His UZR/150 in the OF this year was 11.5. He has far better potential than Skip, who should be traded while his value is “high”.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I see the "quotes"

but seriously, do you think there’s a team out there who needs a Schumaker? I don’t see it, seems like there are plenty of other guys just like him. And btw, how is his last name pronounced? I don’t get to hear Cardinal broadcasts here in SoColo….is it like shoe-ma-ker, or shoe-mach-er?

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 27, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that we should be able to get someone of marginal value for him

Maybe a LOOGY, or a AA pitching prospect with a little upside. A team like the Mets that could use some OF depth might bite on that. As I see it, Schu has no long term future on this team with all of our, young, talented OF. And in the short term he will play just well enough to take away a bats from some of our more talented and useful OF.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 27, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

definitely a better platoon partner for duncan/ankiel

imagine how excited La Russa would be if he had the following platoon possibilites:

LF Duncan/Barton
CF Ankiel or rasmus/Mather
2b Schumaker/Ryan (or Barden, or whoever)

with schu/barton alternating at leadoff depending on the SP.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 26, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

to be fair

Barton had really bad timing with his injury… he would have gotten a better shot, but still, he did get dicked around… but TLR tends to do that (AK in the OF, heh)

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There was the AK in the OF stuff

But there was also them leaving him on the DL forever and other such nonsense needed to make sure they’d be able to keep him.

Necessary? Yeah, I guess, some of it. (Not the Miles/AK in the OF experiment.) Unfortunate? Definitely.

by mojowo11 on Jan 26, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BB

Personally, I liked (mostly) what I saw from Barton last year… but there have been absolutely no comments from the front office, management, or anyone for that matter which suggests that he has a legitimate shot to exit spring training with the big club.

It just seems that he’s buried by too many legitimate outfielders. With that said, the organization must have liked him enough to keep him around all of last year… even if the decision was made easier by an injury that allowed him some time in the minors.

I looked for, but could not find Barton’s peak translation.

by AndyB83 on Jan 26, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see Barton leading off

but he’ll probably at least get some time to polish his skills in AAA

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be fine with that

If I thought “some time to polish his skills” meant “we’ll call him up when he proves that he rakes minor league pitching.” But let’s be honest, it doesn’t mean that in this case. There are too many OFs around. Unless one or two of them get moved, Barton’s not going to have a place. Which is too bad.

by mojowo11 on Jan 26, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well yeah

he’ll probably be stuck in the minors until A. we make a deal with someone midseason or B. Ankiel leaves due to free agency in 2010. which probably won’t be that fair to the guy (and leaving us without our best leadoff option) but hey, I’m used to that kinda stuff I guess.

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 27, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Snuggie reference!

I love that ad. Posnanski did a great post on his blog about that a few weeks ago.

by Merry CRasmus on Jan 26, 2009 1:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

DanUp reads Lileks!

Completely random but I felt compelled to comment on it when I saw your comment on the Bleat! Given your humorous writing style it makes perfect sense that you’d be a Lileks writer……

For those of you that have no idea what I’m talking about google “lileks bleat”. has absolutely nothing to do with sports but is great observation writing on pop culture, the inanity of day to day life, etc. from a very sharp, humorous perspective

/end post hijack………

by slu on Jan 26, 2009 2:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

what are the odds

I found “Fresh Lies” at a used bookstore a few years ago and immediately sought out everything else he’d written.

by DanUpBaby on Jan 26, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mather at 3B?

this is the first season where I’m more excited about spring training than about the regular season! 7 outfielders, multiple options for 3B, still money left to sign somebody, young guys duking it out for closer, kennedy fighting for his life to be the starter he always wanted to be, is carpenter healthy, these questions and many more may be answered come spring training!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

just found out...

that im making the trip to jupiter. Im about as stoked as shaun white after his final in in the superpipe l;ast night.

by hghallstar on Jan 26, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the announcers

seemed to think he won on reputation.

by STLRegalia on Jan 26, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh Bo Hart what a great man crush

Bruce Seldon > Ali

by rjhabeeb on Jan 26, 2009 3:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Don't mind me

just testing the new avatar.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Jan 26, 2009 4:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

eh

Looked cooler at full size

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Jan 26, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it's a good avatar.magestic and proud.

if you can’t trust a southern lawyer cooking a kosher meal in a dumpster,
well, then, the world has grown far too cynical

by RosevilleRedbird on Jan 26, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

bump up the contrast a bit.

by spants on Jan 26, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Freese is unlikely to top Glaus this season...

He’d have to leap frog his expected OPS+ to compete with Troy’s +124. Just ain’t gonna happen. But I’ll be happy if he can put up a +110 over the month prior to Troy’s return.

Sign Ben Sheets.

-- GOOCH

by GOOCH24 on Jan 26, 2009 4:46 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

He's showing how important this it..

by typing it with every entry. Preach on GOOCH!!

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Jan 26, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I wasn't much on Sheets

Until I saw his 2008 SO/IP and SO:BB numbers. Now I’m with Gooch.

Sign Ben Sheets.

by random on Jan 27, 2009 12:31 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

yeah

Sheets’ ‘08 numbers were even better than Sabbathia’s imo. I’m very surprised no one has signed him yet.

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 27, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay they weren't better than CC's

But they were very good. The thing I like about SHEETS is that even if he only pitches 120 innings, he will be almost 3 times as valuable than Piniero.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 27, 2009 12:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

he had a lower era, better strike to bb ratio than sabbathia, but cc is a better pitcher obviously

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 27, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you are writing it wrong

SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 27, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Pettitte re-signs with the Yanks

Though not much of a surprise, puts Phil Hughes back in the minors until someone gets hurt or sucks, and Ian Kennedy even further back. Can someone tell me why MO isn’t hitting them up hard with Ankiel? Maybe b/c they would prefer Rasmus? HEY CASH-MAN, ANSWER THE PHONE, YOUR STARTING CFer IS CALLING!

There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jan 26, 2009 6:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

it's got to help us w/ both ankiel and sheets.

Kennedy is now eminently moveable. Sheets now has one less suitor and a starting base for $5.5m/yr? if we can get sheets for anything close to that. . . .

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get the desire for Ian Kennedy

He had some good minor league numbers but the scouting report on him is more of a mid to back rotation guy. We’ve got a ton of those.

CHONE Projects 2009:
Ian Kennedy – 4.51
PJ Walters – 5.02

by azruavatar on Jan 26, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not nearly as many as ML-ready OF. and how many are ready to start this year?

if I can turn rick into a back of the rotation starter, I’m down.

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hm

most of the time I don’t like trading the pitcher with the best stuff, but I guess in this case there are extenuating circumstances.

by DanUpBaby on Jan 26, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

But why

we already have 4 Ian Kennedy-esque pitchers in AAA

by azruavatar on Jan 26, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I just haven't heard serious suggestions, except maybe for mcclellan,

that todd, boggs, mortenson, or walters are going to come up and steal a rotation spot at ST, while the outfield is choked w/ 6 or 7 guys who could play at an ML level tomorrow.

 I’ll defer to your superior knowledge of our prospects. Who do you see taking a starter’s spot at ST?

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the same...

…though I don’t have a solid reason why. I think I’ve just made him my “I really feel good about this guy this year” candidate for ’09, like Barton last year. Not sure if that bodes well for him or not. I went looking at his stats and noticed that his number of hits allowed hews eerily close to his IP at every level. Small sample, I know, but could someone more knowledgeable enlighten me as to whether this is a typical sinkerballer thing? Is there less variation in BABIP for that type of pitcher?

Also, found this while Googling him and got a kick out of it…

BA: Who was the best hitter you faced in college this year?
 
CM: Boy, that’s a tough one. It might have been Brett Wallace of Arizona State. He was difficult to pitch to. For one thing, you don’t expect a guy who’s about 6’2" 240 to be hitting lead-off.

New to posting here, so apologies if that’s been seen a million times before. The thought of a Leadoff Walrus just made me smile.

by I Like Bob Dylan on Jan 26, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We don't have anyone as good of Kennedy in AAA

This is line the last 2 years in AAA. 103.2 IP, 77 Hits, 2.26 ERA, 28 BB, 106 K,

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 26, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes and No on the comparsion

Reyes and Kennedy are both the black sheep of their organization. Reyes gone for nothing. Maybe the same for Kennedy? Ankiel for Kennedy would be good for both organizations. A left handed power hitting CFer for a Young SP with options.

Reyes got way more of a shot though than Kennedy has.

58.2 IP for Kennedy compared to over 200 IP for Reyes

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 26, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who?

Kennedy (24 years old) has never had worse than 3.15 FIP in minors. He’s posted the following 2007 (34.2 IP) & 2008 (69 IP) numbers in AAA:
K/9 (8.83 & 9.39)
BB/9 (2.86 & 2.22)
HR/9 (.52 & .52)
WHIP (1.04 & 1.00)

I referred to the great site that you contribute to for the Cards’ top three pitchers in AAA (not including Garcia and Parisi because of injuries) according to Future Redbirds’ prospect list.

Boggs in 125.1 IP in AAA (2008): 4.20 FIP, 5.82 K/9, 3.30 BB/9, .79 HR/9, & 1.22 WHIP
Todd in 103 IP in AA (2008): 4.22 FIP, 7.08 K/9, 2.10 BB/9, 1.05 HR/9, 1.00 WHIP
Mortensen in 80 IP in AAA (2008): 5.53 FIP, 6.41 K/9, 4.73 BB/9, 1.35 HR/9, 1.61 WHIP

I thought maybe I was over-estimating my thoughts on Kennedy… but by a quick glance at the numbers, he looks much better than the Cards’ internal options… would you agree or am I missing something?

Even so, another young pitcher whom the Cards can control for a few years is much needed as they appear steadfast in their decision to not add to rotation depth via free agency b/c of the money it would cost. For that reason, I’d trade Ankiel away if he could net a guy like Ian Kennedy before we lose him to free agency anyways.

by AndyB83 on Jan 26, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

His numbers are very good in the minors

and he gets panned by a TON of scouts because his stuff is crap and only grades up because of command. I think this is one of those cases where the numbers don’t tell the whole story.

There’s several pitchers who can cobble together a 5.00 ERA next year. Kennedy might be worth a win over the other pitchers.

by azruavatar on Jan 26, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It is value.

By the numbers, Mortenson was in over his head in AAA last year. Todd might be a great starter, or he may end up as a setup guy. Ditto with Boggs, until he develops a good third pitch.

Ankiel, if he has a good year, will probably be playing for the Yankees anyway next season. Or the Braves. Or, we will sign some stupid contract for him because LaRussa stages a hunger strike.

Getting Kennedy (or preferably Hughes) keeps the organization from having to sign someone like Joel Pinero for the next 4 years. If we can do better, wonderful.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Jan 26, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

By the numbers, Mortenson was in over his head in AAA last year.

Sure was. Good thing we’re not stuck in 2008 timeloop.

Todd might be a great starter, or he may end up as a setup guy. Ditto with Boggs, until he develops a good third pitch.

Ian Kennedy might wind up as a Quad A guy. He might blow his elbow out next year. He might be the next great control artist. What’s your point? We can list a lot of ifs but projections show that Kennedy might be worth a win over someone like Walters next year.

Ankiel, if he has a good year, will probably be playing for the Yankees anyway next season. Or the Braves. Or, we will sign some stupid contract for him because LaRussa stages a hunger strike.

Because the Cardinals are cheap. I forgot that in between them extending Molina, Wainwright, Carpenter and signing Lohse. I don’t think Ankiel is that great of a player but writing us out of his future now is prescience you simply can’t claim.

Getting Kennedy (or preferably Hughes) keeps the organization from having to sign someone like Joel Pinero for the next 4 years. If we can do better, wonderful.

So do players like Mortensen, Walters, Todd, Boggs, Garcia, etc.

The point I was trying to make, which you didn’t address, was that there’s a legitimate reason to question whether Kennedy will stick in the majors despite having an awesome minor league performance. (Cue all the A.Reyes haters.) His stuff is marginal and while not everyone needs a great fastball, there’s not a lot of great sub-90mph fastball starters. You’re basically betting he becomes a Mark Buerhle rather than a Zach Duke.

by azruavatar on Jan 26, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Loop de loop de loop

The stock market doesn’t know it is 2009. Maybe Mortenson won’t either. I hope he will.

The “ifs” concerning our other pitchers are legitimate concerns.

So is your point about Kennedy’s fastball. If we can do better, trading Ankiel for another pitcher, we should. Can we?

The reason I think Kennedy is worth it is that starting pitching has been the area our farm system has struggled the most to produce and promote to the major league level. Even adding a marginal asset is not so marginal for us.

In my opinion, it would be silly to sign Rick Ankiel to a long-term, big $$ contract. I would not do that with any of our outfielders now, given the players we can promote from within. So, I’m counting that he will be gone.

Given the choice between Kennedy or 1-yr-of-Rick+a supplemental pick, I think it is reasonable to consider taking Kennedy.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Jan 26, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta disagree here...
In my opinion, it would be silly to sign Rick Ankiel to a long-term, big $$ contract. I would not do that with any of our outfielders now, given the players we can promote from within.

If Ludwick mashes this year anywhere close to last year he is suddenly one of the best 10 hitters in the game…lock him up!! Rasmus…do I really need to say anything?…lock him up!! I also feel Mather could be worthy of a long time deal, the jury is certainly still out.

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Jan 27, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rasmus

Is not on the team yet. I keep hoping. Mather might be, I hope we keep him too. Barton, ditto.

Schumacher would likely not require a big $$ deal.

Rasmus, Barton, Mather, Jones, Jay, Schumacher…that might make a very nice cost-controlled outfield after Ludwick is done with arbitration. Gives lots of money to pay Pujols and some pitchers.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Jan 27, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I see it as this

(Ankiel Value to the Team) – (his AB’s taken by someone else) < Ian Kennedy Value. When you mix in Ankiel’s contract year and depth at position. It only makes sense to trade him.

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 27, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Very nicely put

by vivaelpujols on Jan 27, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you consider the replacement for Ankiel but not the replacement for Kennedy?

(Ankiel Value to the Team) – (his AB’s taken by someone else) ? (Ian Kennedy Value) – (Default Replacement Value)

We’re going to be in the mix for the wild card (probably not the division) if we do nothing. I’m all for marginal upgrades when a team is borderline playoff but I just don’t see the upside of Kennedy. I’m not a fan of Rick and, in truth, I probably favor prospects a little too much at times but I think Rick is more valuable to the team than Kennedy.

by azruavatar on Jan 27, 2009 7:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

After a strong month or two...

Ankiel might net significantly more than Kennedy.

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Jan 27, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

az, i hear what you're saying and i respect your assessment of these guys

I would note that we’re not talking one win, we’re talking 6 wins over the remaining seasons of club control. and a league min contract over a $2m or $3M contract.

and in a year when joel pineiro is the SECOND BEST PAID PITCHER in our rotation, i maybe overestimate how nice it is to have a cheap number five pitcher.

not shouting at you, just, whenever I think that JOEL PINEIRO IS OUR SECOND BEST PAID PITCHER it gets me all worked up.

meritocracy me arse.

by tom s. on Jan 27, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The rotation is bad but substituting a #5 starter

for another #5 starter isn’t the answer. If the Cardinals are willing to move Ankiel, do it as part of a package and try to snag someone young but with more upside. Or let the rotation be what it is and go after a Kelly Johnson or an Eric Patterson or a Brian Roberts. Yes, the rotation is chincy but we can upgrade this team on the offensive side yet as well.

I should say that I’m not arrogant enough to know I’m right on Kennedy. Command and control artists can be good pitchers, I’m just not as partial to them when evaluating upside.

by azruavatar on Jan 27, 2009 7:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Although I probably would move Ankiel for Ian Kennedy...

I’m with you on this… It does make more sense to put a package together to try and not only get a young starter that we can control; but one that makes our rotation appreciably better.

But do you think a package with Ankiel has a lot of appeal being that he’s essentially a rental at this point?

Which teams would we match up with?

by AndyB83 on Jan 27, 2009 8:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not even saying that kennedy is necessarily a huge upgrade.

just saying that if we get him & he performs adequately as a #5 starter, it prevents the FO (i hope) from running out and dropping $8m/yr on another pineiro type.

by tom s. on Jan 27, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nah

Ankiel will never play for the Yankees

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Kennedy is blah. I’d rather see Rick hit 30 homers with a hundred ribbies, a couple more highlight reel throws and then if/when he leaves, we get some draft picks (he’s at least type B, right?).

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 26, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Cards are willing to risk him accepting arbitration...

… and doing the whole dance with him & Ludwick again.

by AndyB83 on Jan 27, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

One thing ive learned this offseason

is most other Cardinals fans love back end of the rotation starters

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D

NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!

by jealousblues on Jan 26, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Can I point something out?

Tony LaRussa threw a fit last year, as the P-D and other outlets hinted at because of the Cardinals inactivity at the trade deadline.

He put career bench playing middle infielders in the OF and refused to call up any minor league OF’ers or even play them in those positions. He put Felipe Lopez in every Goshdarn position possible without angering El Hombre to prove his point.

And what have we done in the off-season? Trade for a 1 year rental of a SS and signed some not-so-good LOOGYs. Tony campaigned for Matt Holliday and Brian Fuentes and got nothing.

Tony doesn’t get Adam Kennedy voted off the island and as much as WE love to hear Joe Mather might get some playing time at SS, I have to believe Tony said that with a bit of sarcasm as if to say “Give me a GD second basemen or else I’m putting this big ogre at the keystone”.

Maybe Tony has mellowed since last season, seen the error in his ways. However, if the roster stays pretty much the way it is I have to believe there will be some mutiny or statement-with-the-lineup making by Tony. Even more so if Mo flexes his muscles and send Chris down again or forces Tony to play Skippy at 2B in order to get Rasmus on the roster.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 26, 2009 9:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If you are right

…and I thought the same thing, looking at it, then LaRussa willfully put his team at a disadvantage to win games during a playoff run. That is disgraceful behavior.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Jan 26, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like the fact that Tony wants to improve the team

But many of his ideas are kind of idiotic. For example paying 10 million a year for a “proven” closer when we have a couple of young studs who could do nearly as well is a bad allocation of resources. Also he wanted Holiday because he would give protection to Pujols, but the idea of lineup protection has been proven to be false. Plus we have the guy who was second in the league in slugging last year so theres not point in getting Holiday.

Our bullpen looks good, the offense looks good, the defense looks great. The only problem we have is a crappy starting rotation. I really, really don’t know why LaRussa or Moz isn’t looking at BEN SHEETS.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If there was/is that much friction there

and I’m not saying there isn’t, would that not lead one to believe that there will be a new manager in town in 2010?

I know Tony doesn’t like to discuss his next contract until after the season, but, if such friction were there and persisted, what do you think the odds are that there are no such discussions and both sides just allow the contract to run out?

by ArkansasTravs on Jan 27, 2009 2:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think we will have to look

at what is going on in Cincy to get an idea how TLR might act/feel. I don’t believe he will be ready to retire at the end of the year, so it will all depend on whether he has other options. I wonder if there would be many takers other than WJ?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jan 27, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

small andy

went for 5.5 guaranteed, but could double it with incentives. sheets got to be in the same ballpark. a shame if we don’t take a shot.

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Jan 26, 2009 10:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

wow.

he was worth between 18-22M last year, depending on what tweaks fangraphs has made to their WAR calcs today…

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 26, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yes.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 27, 2009 2:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Then it probably overvalues Pettite

Because he gives up a lot of hits with good peripherals. Pettite is really just Jon Garland from the left side with more strikeouts.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 27, 2009 3:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

tRA has him as a 3 WAR player

or about 12-16M depending on your $$$/Wins conversion.

by azruavatar on Jan 27, 2009 8:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Keep in mind

The Yanks defense was atrocious.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 27, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not sure I get your point

if jon garland got more K’s he’d be a much better pitcher.

I agree that FIP probably doesn’t do the best job of measuring how valuable a player was, to the team he played for, since the defense behind him is a factor that must be considered even if it’s not in his control.

OTOH, using FIP helps to show how valuable the player was, in a neutral setting, so if we were trying to determine how much he’d add to our team next year, it would be the better metric to use.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 27, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd pay double for Sheets

for each of those years. But that’s just me.

The Rangers are sitting there screwing themselves. They keep playing chicken hoping the price comes down even further on Sheets. I go to bed everynight and say a little prayer that Ben Sheets is a Cardinal when I wake up.

He’s going to get hurt. I know this. I count on it. But when he DOES pitch, he will be the 1st (or 2nd depending if Carp is back) best pitcher on our team. If I told you we could have 2005 Mark Mulder without trading Dan Haren, you’d take it. Even if he gets injured in 2006, you’d take the one year rental and the sunk cost because odd are he’d be worth $20 M that first year.

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 26, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Texas is where good pitchers go to die.

Or, maybe, St. Louis is where injured pitchers go to … remain injured pitchers?

Yes, I would take it. Twice, if you could get me Haren back.

Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.

by IL and StL Fan on Jan 26, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

Sheets is just quality, and lets say he misses the middle of the season, we still have him for the playoffs making us nearly twice as good imo

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 26, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

do you think the sox are kicking themselves that they paid penny and smoltz each $500k less than

a pitcher who was actually pretty good for a chunk of 2008? not that pettite was going there.

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not knocking the signing so much as the price.

smoltz seems like a huge gamble, though, given his age and the fact that nobody thinks he pitches before june.

by tom s. on Jan 26, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Forgot where I saw it

But he was already touching 92 and throwing his full repertoire at the workout before he signed with them. I’m pretty sure if there’s a single pitcher I’d pick to come back from shoulder surgery with a vengeance it’d be Smoltz. He has apparently dealt with shoulder pain for a LONG time…

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 26, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Top 20 pitcher in major league history in my mind

Plus Boston can easily afford to overpay for him.

by vivaelpujols on Jan 27, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to argue with that

The guy’s got 200 wins, 150 saves, and a career ERA of 3.26. It’s been two crazy decades for Smoltzy.

by mojowo11 on Jan 27, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and he got us to the playoffs in 2006

god bless him.

still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.

by SleepyCA on Jan 27, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah yes.

The infamous Busch Stadium tomahawk chop.

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 2:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cardinals' Stuff

An anagram for Albert Pujols = Label: Just Pro; http://morehardball.blogspot.com/2009/01/arm-sag-anagrams.html

Did you know McDonald’s was getting rid of their Big Mac name because of McGwire- http://morehardball.blogspot.com/2009/01/signs-of-times.html

We Should Be GM's @ http://pabaseball.blogspot.com
More Hardball @ http://morehardball.blogspot.com

by GMCarson on Jan 27, 2009 7:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

That is hilarious

of course if it were true it would be funnier. Isn’t sticking a needle full of ’roids in your ass a whole lot healthier than eating a Big Mac?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 27, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Totally off-topic...

I’m reading “The Omnivore’s Dilemma.” I haven’t eaten beef since I started reading it.

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's stick to baseball please

;)

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.

by Gregatron on Jan 27, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not talking

politics or religion.

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But you're bad mouthing meat.

That’s just as bad in my book.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 27, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's hard

to find grass-fed beef. I’d eat it daily if I could.

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was referring to the book

and the nest of relevant issues surrounding it.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.

by Gregatron on Jan 27, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But I wasn't.

Which is why it wasn’t political.

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now you're disrespecting

the greatness which is pork!

BAN SPANTS!

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 27, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

PORK!

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 27, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

pork as in bacon?

or pork as in earmarks?

mmm bacon

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 27, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually that is pretty political

but I was just kidding around.

Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.

by Gregatron on Jan 27, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't read the book...

but my fiancee and I eat nothing but grass fed beef now. I can’t go completely off beef — I love steak and hamburgers too much. Her brother-in-law is actually in the process of converting his herd to grass fed/no-antibiotic beef as well because he can get a premium price for it.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 27, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Where do you get

your grass-fed beef at? I’m guessing Whole Foods might have it, or maybe Trader Joe’s.

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have friends who

buy grass fed beef directly from farms. Hard to imagine it is allowed in IOWA, but it is done nonetheless.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jan 27, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whole Foods

didn’t have it as of Dec ‘08 (I haven’t been there since the closing the eastern half of 64/40) but the do have pretty good dry aged steaks.

There was a farmer selling grass fed beef at Soulard Market on the weekends when I used to get down there a lot. If you’re really wanting to find some in the city, that might be a good start.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 27, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

Maybe I’ll pick up some bacon while I’m there.

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm really not sure why this discussion is even hapening

when the most educated cow in the whole world reads the blog. I’m sure she (he?) would know better.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Jan 27, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Like in the book "Wicked,"

there are animals and there are Animals. You don’t eat Animals.

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No offense to the

beeves of the world, but there are multiple places you can get grass-fed bison in Missouri. Pretty tasty and very healthy.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jan 27, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bison burgers

are awesome.

BEN F*&*ING SHEETS!

by spants on Jan 27, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I live in Ames, IA

And we have a local co-op that partners with grass fed beef farmers locally and out west in Colorado and Wyoming. I pay a little more for it, but it generally tastes better and is much better for you than the corn-fed variety.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 28, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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