Something To Think About...
On top of whatever general discord is afflicting us a fanbase for the upcoming 2009 season, I was thinking about something that doesn't need to be addressed quite yet but will creep up on us soon enough.
El Hombre's contract is guaranteed through 2010 with a $16 million club option for 2011. If the club picks that option up, I can only imagine how unhappy Albert might be... which brings me to this question:
How much money will it take to lock up Albert when his contract comes up? His current deal was made when the market was decidedly less expensive. I would assume that the Teixeira contract might be used as just a starting point. Are we talking ARod-type numbers? 10 years, $275 million?
Personally, I think the Cards should do whatever it takes to make sure he is a Cardinal for life. What say you?
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53 comments
Comments
Oops...
I clicked the ‘Pick up the option’ option when I meant to click ‘Give him what he wants’. Just disregard that vote.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 20, 2009 5:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
good to know
it’s even more of a blowout!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2009 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we are able to re-sign Albert
I hope his new contract includes a sweet deal to bring him back as our hitting coach when his playing days are over.
And I say England's greatest prime minister was Lord Palmerston.
by tangledbrett on Jan 20, 2009 6:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That can't happen
The Royals tried this with Willie Wilson and George Brett by giving them “lifetime contracts” but the union vetoed it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 21, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Darn
You just shattered my dream. :-)
And I say England's greatest prime minister was Lord Palmerston.
by tangledbrett on Jan 21, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Tim Wakefield?
His contract has a perpetual team option for $4 million a year
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
by DiscoJer on Jan 25, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mlb.com article
some good quotes from AP in this article. Here is one
“If I see that I have other opportunities to go somewhere and win, it’s about that. It’s not just about money. It’s about winning. I want to win, and that’s what I play for. That’s why those people pay a lot of money to come and see us. They want a great team and they want a ballclub that can be in the postseason. I guess I can say I got a little bit spoiled with my first six years in the big leagues, because we made the playoffs [five times]. It’s about that.”
by ubeddie on Jan 20, 2009 6:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
All the more reason to build a ballclub around the guy
and all the more reason for him not to want $30M per season as well…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 21, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure exactly how to interpret his quotes yet...
He also said something like the following: I love to play in St. Louis and I hope I spend my entire career here, but I also know baseball is a business. Not sure on the exact quote.
I am starting to wonder if the collective Cardinals fandom (myself included) is overanalyzing Pujols’ statements? If anything I would guess he was just trying to say he’s way more focused on the coming season and actually playing than worrying about contracts. He seems to be realistic about things.
by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there was also a quote sometime recently with him saying:
something along the lines of: “I’m glad I got my money already” when discussed the contract status of another player.
He seems pretty happy with his current contract, even though players like A-Rod and Teixeira out-earn him. I would think the most likely situation is that the option will be picked up and he’ll be signed to a contract that will begin after that contract year, and it wouldn’t shock me if he gets a modest raise (modest for Pujols, anyway) to something with an 17-18M average.
I might just be too optimistic, but I see Pujols as a guy who definitely wants his money, but also realizes what the realistic situation for him staying in St. Louis is. I think he also puts a premium on winning, and he sees St. Louis as a place where this is possible, especially after the 2004-2006 years with the two 100-win seasons and the WS championship. I think if he were to consider leaving, the list of teams he’d be willing to play for would be pretty slim, I would think.
by mtalken on Jan 25, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why would he be upset?
Or did you mean “pick up the option instead of signing him long-term”?
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 20, 2009 6:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
That’s what I meant… if they picked up his $16 million option in 2011…. I mean, what if Ryan Howard wins his arbitration case and gets $18 million this year? That’s just more leverage that Pujols’ agents will have in negotiating…
As for the quotes from the AP article… that is good stuff… but as I recall, he was saying the same types of things before he initially signed his current deal. He said stuff about not giving St. Louis a hometown discount… and he didn’t because the club stepped up and gave him a fair deal as the market dictated at that time.
I just worry that ownership may not step up and make the necessary financial commitment to keep a player of his ilk… it may take a contract the likes that we have not seen before
ARod got his 10-year, $275 million deal 7 months before he turned 33 years old… Pujols turns 31 a few months after the 2010 season wraps up… it’s going to take BIG money
by nzach54 on Jan 20, 2009 8:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees always pay well over what other teams are willing too do
Pujols is better than A-rod, but nobody besides the Yankees would give him that kind of a deal.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 20, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not as worried now about the Yanks signing Pujols if he becomes a FA...
Since the Yanks are now committed to Teixeria unitl 2016 and have a few other guys with big contracts who will be hard to move. Not that they couldn’t financially afford to sign him, but Tex will be their 1b and guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Matsui, Nady, Damon, Posada, etc, will all be ready to slide into the DH slot, and these guys will be hard to move without eating salary.
I think it would make me even more upset if Pujols went to Boston or the Mets. I would think the Mets might make a big play for Pujols since that team is pretty much all Latino except for Wright and Putz. Also, Delgado will be a free-agent after 2009 and the Mets will likely not want him back. The Mets could sign a placeholder to play first for 2010-2011 and then make an all out effort to get Pujols.
The Angels have also had a hole at 1B for some time and Arte Moreno and the SoCAL fanbase would probably have the funds and the willpower to pounce on Pujols.
I can also see the Red Sox moving on Pujols. Perhaps that is why they’re not signing Adam Dunn, ManRAM or Tex to play 1B?DH for a lengthy deal in order to leave the position open for pujols
by Czechguardsman on Jan 21, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm worried about the Met's too
They have the money after 2011 most of there big contracts will be coming off of the books. They will have a ton of money to spend and they will certainly be able to buy there way into competitiveness. I don’t think that Pujols will split for a bigger deal, but he has said that he wants to win. If Cards aren’t looking good by ‘11 and the Mets do a Yankee impression circa this year and sign everyone who could help there team, I don’t know if Pujols will be able to stay away.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 21, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its not a stretch at all to enivision Omar Minaya offering a blank check for Albert Pujols.
The Mets seem to have the resources.
Omar Minaya has an apparent quasi-fetish for Latino players(much to the chagrin of David Wright and Billy Wagner.) I’m sure he would target Pujols with 100% of his energy and would make agressive overtures to acquire him. I can see Pujols going to the Mets, what with the zest and enthusiasm he has for playing for the Dominican team in the World Baseball Classic. Being on the same team with Jose Reyes, Johan Santana, KRod, and 15 other hispanohablante dominicanos would surely be appealing, not to mention playing in the big apple and the mammoth contract he would receive. No doubt the Mets might offer something ridiculous like 12yrs/400MIL
I don’t how know Pujols will take to TLRs managerial replacement, who could be here as early as 2010. If he’s not happy with the way the team is going; if he feels that the Cards are just “treading water”, than I can see him leaving. I would view Pujols as a massive sellout if he went to NYM, who I consider to be a top rival for league primacy. It would suck to see him in those orange and blue pinstripes.
I don’t think, though, that Pujols is that kind of money-motivated player who will go simply to the men who wave the most green in his face. His character is too strong for that.
by Czechguardsman on Jan 21, 2009 3:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought we were doing freaking out about Albert for now?
nope, i’m still freaking out. pick up the option & give him whatever he wants.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 20, 2009 8:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not a freakout
Just wanted to get a gauge of people’s opinion and hopefully you guys would throw out some dollar amounts of what you might think it will take to sign him
by nzach54 on Jan 20, 2009 9:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Give him what ever he wants and develop and/or sign a competative team- it’s win/win. He’d be a fool to leave then.
by CardFan@theLake on Jan 20, 2009 11:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
8 yrs/$240 mil
signed next Feb. that’s my guess and I’m sticking to it.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jan 21, 2009 12:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
8 years/$240 mil
I doubt the Cardinals go that high. 30 mill per yer average doesn’t put much of a team around him when they’re already crying about a half mil here and there with a 90 million dollar payroll.
As much as I love what this team has done, it kind of bothers me that they aren’t spending more to make this a dynasty. The Bulls gave Jordan what he needed and they’ll be remembered forever. I’m not saying to go blindly throwing money away like that team to the north that thinks money will buy a WS ring. But to get quality players sometimes you just have to shop the free agent market.
by JShell73 on Jan 21, 2009 9:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Please don't compare baseball and basketball
It’s foolish and frivolous to do so. You can win in basketball with two marquee players making big salaries and a bunch of veteran guys making league minimum — which is almost exactly what the Bulls were in both of their championship runs, what the Lakers teams were early in this decade, and what the Spurs have been in the Duncan era.
You can’t build a baseball team this way — as good as Pujols is, he and one other stud pitcher or position player making $20M+ every year would not be enough to lift the team to title contention every year with a bunch of average veteran talent.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 21, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was using the Bulls
Because they were a fairly small market team that spent the money because they had something special and they knew it.
In baseball, it’s hard to compare since the big market teams usually buy out everyone in baseball. But if it makes you feel better, how about the 2003 Marlins with Miguel Cabrera and then tons of free agent talent around him? Just saying I hate the penny pinching when there really no reason for it. I’m not saying the cards are one player from a WS run, I’m just sayig it’s disappointing to see some of Albert’s prime years go by with nothing to show but a 4th place finish.
by JShell73 on Jan 21, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I may not be an expert on NBA economics
but how are/were the Bulls a fairly small market team? At what time has Chicago not been one of the 3 largest cities in the country? I have to believe WGN was paying them some serious money to beam that era’s team into most of the country. The had to have had the largest television market in the NBA. I mean, who the hell does not get WGN? Am I mistaken?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 21, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
They were, and still are, one of the top 5 teams in terms of revenue, and they haven’t been out of the first round of the playoffs in a decade. Michael was a big part of that, but they always had the possibility of great TV deals, great attendance, and so on.
I still don’t see where they “spent money”. Outside of Michael, who, exactly, did they spend money on during their title runs? Every other player on those squads, including guys like Kukoc and Horace Grant, were expendable for another player that could be acquired. They didn’t keep an entire team together for longer than three years. In fact, other than Michael ($30M his last 2 seasons, never more that $5M per season before that) and Dennis Rodman in 1996-1997 ($9M) nobody on any of those teams made more than $5M in any one season, including Scottie Pippen. Only 1/3 of them ever made more than league AVERAGE in their 6 title runs.
Reinsdorf didn’t “pony up” to keep something good together — in fact, that was the downfall of those great teams and the reason they got broken up: Krause and Reinsdorf didn’t think that Michael was worth $30M per season and didn’t want to pay Scottie Pippen what he was worth, so they broke up the team and haven’t sniffed the conference finals since. They thought they could just replace those guys and continue with business as usual by rebuilding through the draft.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 22, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A couple things to think about
Here is exactly why Apu will stay:
1. Management/ownership is not stupid- Albert Pujols generates a TON of revenue. Fans pay to come see him play. They buy his jerseys. This makes money for the organization. So yes, they will need to offer him a lot of money, but that huge contract is somewhat offset by the money that he generates playing for STL. Paying a player that the fans hate for 10 million/yr would be the same (monetarily) for ownership as signing a player the fans love for 20 million/yr. The extra revenue that beloved player generates makes up for the 10 million difference.
2. Apu likes it here- Of course you will not see him come out and say “I love it here, and never want to leave, so they can go ahead and fleece me on the new contract and I’ll accept anyway”. Of course not!!! He will remain tight lipped in order to get a fair deal, but the fact of the matter is that he does love it here and he definitely would want to stay. His daughter has developement problems and St. Louis is widely known as a great place for children with disabilities. He is building a brand spanking new house in the metro east a couple miles from where I live. You don’t go build a 5 million dollar house if you think you’re going to be moving in 2 years.
3. As long as the cardinals field a competitive team around the time that the contract talks come up, he will be happy. He is a competitor and wants to win. As long as ownership isn’t stupid and doesn’t go into any type of serious rebuilding mode, Albert knows that STL always has a good chance at winning.
by Cardsray on Jan 21, 2009 9:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a measured and thoughtful response
I keep trying to remember that, by all accounts, he really seems to like it here. Also, I don’t see any signs that the team is gonna completely tank, especially with how much our farm system has been progressing.
by mattybobo on Jan 21, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have the makings of a possible MV3 situation in the next three years AGAIN!
Crazily enough, the players play the same positions as the original MV3 players did. Wallace, Rasmus, and Pujols could make a great triumvirate to build another championship level club around. Two of them should be pretty cheap through the 2012/2013 seasons as well.
This is why management should be spending money on free agent starting pitching or trading prospects for young starting pitching in the next 2-3 years: The farm looks to be producing some excellent bullpen arms and position players, but doesn’t look too solid in producing top pitching prospects at this point.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 21, 2009 9:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Here's what they need to do
Pick any integer, 1-4.
Then, start writing zeros until Albert asks them to stop. I’m only half-kidding.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 21, 2009 10:01 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I actually laughed out loud on this one...
and realized I agree ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jan 21, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been pondering this issue and I have one thought of something we could do.
We could form a charitable organization and website, the Albert Pujols Retention Fund. Ask Cards fans to donate to the fund and create a sum of money over the course of the season. The funds would be given to Pujols’ charity in the event that he signed with the Cardinals beyond the 2011 season. The funds would be disbursed to an alternate charity — say the United Way — if he signed elsewhere.
I think that kind of pressure would be a good way for Cardinals fans to express their love for the Mang, a good way to show that we want him back, put a little gentle moral pressure on him to stay, and would all be for a good cause.
by tom s. on Jan 21, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking that today at work. What we need is some crazy wealthy person to give him an offer he can’t refuse to stay in STL. Something like ten mil straight to his charity so long as he signs back.
But really, if you dangle a 8yr/280Mil contract infront of him, I don’t see him leaving. If that’s not possible, give him a percentage of the team after he retires so long as he stays a card.
ah wishful thinking
by CardFan@theLake on Jan 21, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Best Equation:
Albert Pujols = St. Louis Cardinals
by Elpot on Jan 22, 2009 8:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Can we keep him?
I didn’t vote, simply because I’m in Limbo on this one. Ok I have been a fan of King Albert ever since he broke in (I know, I know everybody has) and I do think he’s the best hitter in the game. He’s probably the best all around player in the game right now as well, and I do think he’ll go down as one of the top three to five players all time.
Having said all of that, if he gets something like $30-$35 million as season he’s way to much for us as a team. I LOVE the idea of a line-up with Wallace, Rasmus, and Pujols all in it, but IF Wallace and Rasmus pan out the way we hope each will make $10 million+ when we have to re-sign them. I’m assuming that everybody will want Pujols on the roster when that happens, and it that’s the case then we’ll have $50 milion+ invested in three players. The payroll will not go much farther then $110 million, and if that’s the case almost half the payroll will be invested in three guys. IF we decide to bring Wainwright on for the long hall he’ll make about $10 million. Now that’s four players that comprise $60+million, and we’re left with about $50 million to deal with Perez, Motte, Mather, Jones, and anyother great prospect now who will reach arbitration during the Pujols contract.
I’m conflicted. I love Albert, but CAN we feild a competitve team around him? I didn’t even mention the idea of signing another ace type pitcher that we might need between now and whenever. Throw in the fact that Albert’s contract will surly be back loaded so that he makes more towards the end and it becomes even more difficult to sign anybody around him. Just my two cents (wich I’d gladly kick into the Keep Pujols for Less fund.)
by Gibson on Jan 22, 2009 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
only 81%
what does a guy gotta do?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2009 1:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, it doesn't even match the 92% aaron miles got over on the cards talk boards on the p-d site.
by tom s. on Jan 22, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well obviously Miles meant more to this team
than APu does
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 22, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what are people thinking
oh no, Miles is gone, what are we gonna do!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
signing miles doesn't really handicap the team one way or another
Signing pujols is certainly capable of completely handicapping the team. And the spectre of a season ending injury from his million ailments is looming. If we are signing him to 8y/$240M, there is a very real risk that you lose one or two of those seasons to some horrific injury, and then there is no money left to sign anyone.
It’s still probably worth doing, but I can see how there woudl be slightly less enthusiasm for it than for a largely irrelevant and somewhat fan friendly Aaron Miles signing.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 23, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Albert isn't A-Rod
Albert doesn’t really care too much about money. He won’t ask for a crazy salary. He loves St. Louis and loves being a Cardinal. He’d be willing to take a pay cut if the Cards asked him to. He’s the kind of guy who would do anything to stay in STL.
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 25, 2009 10:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I wouldn’t go that far… I’m sure he might take a very slight paycut to stay in STL, but if they insulted him by offering him a bad deal he’d move on in a heartbeat
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 25, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the major difference is that Albert is not a Boras client
but then again, borias was not that great at negotiating the latest a-rod contract.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 25, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Playoffs = Retention
Albert wants to be paid but my read on his recent comments is that he wants to win more than pull an A-Rod (signing with Texas for the record contract, not dating Madonna). If the team is in the playoffs the next two years with a good foundation for continued success, I believe Albert will sign a reasonable extension before his option year.
If the Cards don’t make the playoffs in two of the next three years (including his option year), there is a good chance The Mang will look to find a new home with “a winner”. This scenario would mean the team had missed the playoffs in four of his most recent five seasons. The Mang wants to win titles not awards. Could you see him in Cubbie Blue?
by ubeddie on Jan 25, 2009 8:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
don't even think such things
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 25, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs will be in terrible shape in a couple of years
There farm system is nonexistent, and they will have a lot of high priced guys past there prime who will handicap the team for the next 5 years.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 25, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why would he go to the cubs?
they never win any championships
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 25, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's not enough!
we need some holy water, some garlic, some,,,oh hell we need a priest, a rabbi, and a minister & a whole lot more!
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 26, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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