friday hash
to quote one of my favorite writers, the great jim anchower: hola amigos. i know it’s been awhile since i rapped at ya. . . . hope 2009 is off to a good start for ev’yone. danup is on the road today, so i’m filling in for him. i’ll do my best not to rehash too much old ground . . . . although what other type of ground is there in this slooooow off-season market? it’s all been hashed up pretty good. anyway, here goes.
first of all: the cubs signed so taguchi to a minor-league deal. gooch becomes the fourth member of the 2006 championship team to be acquired by the northsiders, following marquis, edmonds, and miles. no doubt jim hendry has made contact w/ scott spiezio’s agent, and there must be hopeful stirrings in the preston wilson and jeff weaver households.
next item: if the trade market for xavier nady is so hot (and that’s what i keep reading), then why the hell can’t the cardinals find any interest in ankiel? he and nady are both in their free-agent year, but ankiel’s a year younger, walks more often, has more power, and has a lot more value as a defender. nady has been linked in the rumor mill to the braves, nationals, pirates, reds, and giants --- and that’s just in the last week. the orioles and angels would also figure to be potential suitors. my guess is that the trade market will remain frozen until man-ram, adam dunn, and bobby abreu sign; once there are no free-agent bats left, maybe ---- maybe ---- the cardinals will get the offer they are looking for on ankiel (or, alternatively, ludwick).
if they don’t, they'll just have to pick up one of the 237 free-agent pitchers who remain unsigned. matt leach posted a rundown yesterday of that market, which even at this late date holds plenty of interest. ben sheets is on the list, and as much as we’d all like him to become a cardinal, we know it ain’t happening; he’s neither affordable nor reliably healthy, and therefore fails on both of the cardinals’ prime criteria. the team already has one $15m-a-year crapshoot in the rotation, and there aren’t many clubs that can afford more than one of those --- or even one, for that matter.
the only other pitcher leach mentions who’s actually good is andy pettitte. i might rather have pettitte than sheets, given his superior health record. but i doubt he will end up in st. louis, for the simple reason that he has never expressed any interest in pitching here. even though his two previous teams (yankees and astros) are both out of the running, andy might still have an offer in his home state of texas (the rangers) or back in new york (the mets) --- and if he doesn’t, he might just retire. it seems unlikely to me that the cards would offer him $15m on a one-year deal, and if they did i don’t think it’s likely pettitte would take it. if both those things were to happen, hallelujah.
once you get past those two guys, you’re down to the garland / looper / perez tier; perez will be too expensive (the mets are gonna throw tons of money at him), and the other guys just aren’t that much better than the top in-house option, kyle mcclellan. on the contrary, mcclellan (my opinion) has more raw ability than anyone left on the market besides sheets and pettitte; he’s got a live arm, good mound presence, and command of three big-league pitches. to that, you can add the fact that mcclellan is club-controlled for another 5 years and has some upside, which is the main thing lacking in the looper / garland model. even if you get a decent season out of a stopgap like that, you haven’t really moved your team forward; you still have the same damn problem, a so-so rotation. guys like that seal in mediocrity; they keep your team from backsliding too much, but they also keep it from moving forward. whereas if the young player pans out, you’ve got one less problem to solve for the next few years.
duncan thinks mcclellan has the makings of a starter --- same as he thought about wainwright, looper, and wellemeyer . . . .
as unsatisfying as the off-season has been so far, i can’t relate to the angry-fan stuff. the cards aren’t in bad shape. they didn’t lose anyone of consequence off last year’s team, they improved at shortstop very cheaply, their in-house personnel ought to improve the bullpen, and they've got near-ready prospects at several positions. they still have question marks, and they still haven’t made the redefining move they are so primed to make this off-season --- the acquisition that opens a new window of world-title opportunity. the cards came into the off-season with money to spend and talent surpluses to deal from; if they come out of it with nothing more than khalil greene, trever miller, and (let’s just say) jon garland, that’ll be frustrating. but splashy off-seasons don't always pan out --- viz. the mariners and tigers last winter --- and dull off-seasons sometimes do. after their disappointing third-place finish in 2003, the cards had a lackluster winter and seemed to fall further behind the competition. while the cubs added greg maddux and the astros added clemens and pettitte, jocketty did nothing more than acquire a couple of free-agent stabilizers (jeff suppan and reggie sanders) and a bunch of retreads and rejects --- jason marquis, roger cedeno, julian tavarez, marlon anderson. the cards didn't land their starting second baseman, tony womack, until the last week of spring training; their opening-day platoon in left field consisted of anderson (a journeyman middle infielder) and 37-year-old ray lankford, who’d been out of baseball for more than a year. they played .500 ball for the first month and a half of 2004 and looked like anything but a contender. . . . .
sometimes it takes a while for things to jell. maybe they will jell in 2009, or maybe they won’t. it’s too soon to say.
0 recs |
194 comments
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Comments
It was nice to hear from you again, lboros.
While your replacement posters have been well above league-average, it is good to hear your perspective again.
by cardsgirl95 on Jan 16, 2009 9:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
+100
"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by TurdFerguson on Jan 16, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary. And there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance."
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 16, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're
well above replacement level;)
by Toddius on Jan 16, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well done
I like your post too Boros
While I certainly do have a foot in the “angry fan” collective Its nice to hear a calming voice that isnt smug or demeaning.
THough I am beyond dissapointed this offseason, its still the Cards and I still love them.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
great
to hear from you, lboros. i’d be the first to agree on mcclellan. he was tested last year in some tough situations and responded in a big way. you give a good young arm (that’s making 390k) a chance and the rewards could be great. i have little interest in old, overpriced stop-gaps.
by redbirds6 on Jan 16, 2009 9:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
McClellan
A commitment of McClellan to the rotation would mean an opening on the right side of the bullpen. I could see a Springer signing there, and maybe another reliever like Brandon Lyon to give veteran depth to make up for the bulk of innings McClellan’s absence would create and a Springer signing wouldn’t fill. To me, I think that improves the roster well. If Medical or other reasons exist for McClellan not to make the move, then Pettite is the best option, though a long shot.
Great to hear from you LB. Happy New Year
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Jan 16, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's the odd man out?
If the Cards commit to putting McClellan in the rotation, who gets bumped out by Carp if Carp pitches? My worry is that Carp bumps McClellan back into the minors.
We’ve seen this movie before, haven’t we? LaRussa goes with the veterans, and sends the young guy to Memphis to keep him on his schedule. This would put us in a bind because the Cardinals’ success next year basically depends on Carpenter. But McClellan could also play an important role. I worry that TLR won’t let them play a role for the team at the same time, though.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Jan 16, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is piñata.
He has already had problems with Tony and Duncan. And unlike last year he isn’t under contract for next year.
by Evilfrog on Jan 16, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you just ignore what contract $$ players have signed
then I think Pinero might not be a horrible option for a veteran in the bullpen. His OPS+ against last year in the first inning was 83. He got shelled back to the stone age in the second inning, but recovered well in the third. After that, well…. A bullpen role might give the manager a chance to protect him, and the team, from that second inning collapse.
With a veteran pitcher like Looper signed, Duncan and LaRussa might have the confidence to try McClellan in the rotation and make Pinero the 6th inning guy/situational starter.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 16, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In a way, I would prefer that to keeping him in the bullpen.
With our rotation, McClellan would be assured of gads of meaningful innings as a starter in ’09. The odds of Carp, Welley, or Waino making it through an entire season are very slim. I would be willing to bet that our 6th starter could very well pick up 100 innings of work with the big club this year.
The debate, then, is whether or not those 100 innings he would probably pick up as a starter are more valuable than having another righty in the bullpen. I say yes. As the team is constructed, we currently have Perez, Motte, Thompson (gag me with a spoon), Franklin, Kinney (is he ready?), and Boggs (available) from the right side. I would rather have a half season of KMac as a starter than a full season of him as a releiver.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jan 16, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I am cynical but
One reason I hate it when LaRussa says that Spring Training is a competition is that I just don’t think it is true. What if McClellan pitches better in ST than Pinero? Shows good conditioning, velocity, and command of all three pitches? Would it really make a difference? Or is Pinero (the veteran) slotted into the rotation, no matter what?
If Spring Training were really a competition, then Rasmus would have started in CF on opening day last year.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 16, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And I am sure Rasmus would of had it
If every other Outfielder we had a great spring training. He was just the one with options.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 16, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
few things.
1.) Tony and Duncan seem to like McClellan. Who happened to make the team last year out of spring training as a rookie and was used in some tight situations right away.
2.) Tony and Duncan both had mentioned the possiability of McClellan as a starter.
3.) Tony and Duncan seem not to like Pinero.
So if they were McClellan is considered for a starting pitcher spot in spring training, I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets it over Pinero. It isn’t just, “oh this guy is a veteran so he is or guy.”
Also. All the outfielders had had great spring trainings. The team wasn’t projected to do much. I’m sure not starting Rasmus’s clock was a factor in not making the team.
by Evilfrog on Jan 16, 2009 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopeful and valid points
Thanks for calming me down.
You are certainly right about it being good baseball sense not to promote Rasmus when the other options were very good. But, that does not make Spring Traning a competition. Or at least not one with a level playing field.
http://www.bnd.com/cardinals/story/603633.html
(Don’t know how to post links the elegant way…)
LaRussa does seem open to McClellan starting. OK, good.
I’m not convinced at all that McClellan’s transition to starter would go smoothly. Looper’s sure didn’t. But, after a year, Looper has become solid. In a year, maybe McClellan could have #3 starter potential. Who else can you say that about that the Cardinals are likely to sign?
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 16, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the other thing is
The guys who pitch and hit in springs training games range from over-the-hill veterans trying to win jobs to over-their-head rookies to your regular MLB players, and the sample sizes are too small to mean anything at all.
With as much experience as they have, I expect that TLR and Duncan understand this (even given TLR’s demonstrated lack of understanding of basic statistics, it must be intuitive by now, else eli marrerro would have made the team in spring 2007). “Competition” in the eyes of TLR/Ducnan etc may not mean “put up the best ERA”. They may have standards they judge guys by that are not visible in the stat sheets.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 16, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to disagree with your two examples
but not the spirit of the post.
I think all the OFs had great springs last year (other than maybe Duncan, I have no idea how he did), plus COlby probably was a little rough around the edges.
I honestly think TLR dislikes Pineiro, or they at least bumped heads last year
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
duncan was awful.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 16, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd say
km starts the year in memphis rotation, resign springer, and pinata in the rotation. giving km a few starts in aaa is actually an appealing idea. when pinata fails and goes to the pen, km comes up, springer or someone else goes in trade or is waived.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jan 16, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great to read you again!
LB I hope all is well with you. Last September I wrote a fanpost about how the Cards will most likely do very little this off season, and why would they do anything else. They found a SS, desided on Kennedy over Lopez, and look to make in house fixes to the pen. Another arm via trade or FA would be nice. I for one wouldn’t mind Pettitte.
A move during spring training might be forth coming if Duncan proves healthy. I expect the opening day outfield to be Schu, Rick and Ludstick. Barton and Mather on the bench and Ramus in AAA. If Duncan is healthy then he is on the bench and one of the bench guys is moved. Ricky to be moved later once Rasmus is promoted. The infield is set. I would like Freese to get a shot at backing up the corners and we have several competing for the MI back up spot.
So another starter would be nice, but other than that this team is ready to compete
by nybirdfan on Jan 16, 2009 9:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Reality Again
Good post and probably dead-on. It is very doubtful that the Cards are going to do anything significant but fans continue to hope for something. The problem is that the Cards talk big but carry a small stick. The big proposed deal with the Rockies got everyone to thinking that the Cards were going to be agressive and they have been very passive.
Agree that they are not in bad shape but they are unwilling to make the final push that the elite teams seem to be willing to do. The Cards are in a tiime in history where they have one of the best players in baseball and they should try to take advantage of such.
It is frustrating that they don’t think in those terms.
McClellan to a starting position would be fine but even that probably ain’t going to happen. It is more likely that one of the other pitchers will have to fail in order for McClellan to get a shot.
by Warcard on Jan 16, 2009 9:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Happy Birthday to #5
I caught this article over on THT, and thought I’d share it if any of you haven’t seen it.
It makes me smile ear to ear.
by cbsnyder on Jan 16, 2009 9:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have been a pujols fan since he was a rookie...
and it took me 8 years to find out we have the same birthday. Not that I have accomplished anything at all, but I all of sudden feel more important.
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Jan 16, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah?
I found out yesterday that I have the same birthday as STEVE FRIGGIN’ WINWOOD!
Yeah, not so much
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 16, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It could be worse.
It could be Michael Bolton.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jan 16, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Bolton
For my money, it doesn’t get any better than when he sings “When a Man Loves a Woman”
by krueger427 on Jan 16, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know
Why don’t you just call me Mike?
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 16, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the clinton's were married one year to the day before i was born
so i’ve got that going for me
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 16, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, late to the party, but
my birthday link has always been that I was born on Pearl Harbor Day. I’m too lazy to look up who else was born that day, but I seem to remember one or two famous or semi-famous folks.
A couple of years ago, I had taken my daughter to a game for her birthday and the crowd sang Happy Birthday to Lou Brock. My daughter was thrilled even though she wasn’t completely sure who Lou was.
by ArkansasTravs on Jan 18, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got Mulders.
Sad trombone.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jan 16, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got Anthony Reyes - same month, day AND year.
Oh, and my boss hates me.
by Ray Lankford on Jan 16, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll see your Reyes
and raise you Junior Spivey.
by Anonymous Communist on Jan 16, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As far as baseball birthdays go, I'm in pretty good shape
Yogi Berra
Felipe Alou
Lou Whitaker
…and our favorite backup first baseman…
Josh Phelps
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 16, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Wainwright
I win =)
No I don’t =(
by mateodh on Jan 16, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you should ditch the socks
Also, you should consider adding two-seam typing* to your repertoire.
*If this does not apply, insert appropriate reference of your own…
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 16, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, Ha. Ray, you need to get you a new boss.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jan 17, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Happy B'day to you both then
I assume you represent Albert Pujols in all Jan. 16th b-day related things?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 16, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what a flawless baseball machine even thinks of its own birthday?
Good afternoon, gentleman. I am an AL 9000 baseball machine. I became operational at the A.L. plant in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic on the 16th of January 1980. My predecessor was Bienvenido Pujols, and he taught me to sing a song. If you’d like to hear it I can sing it for you.
(Yes, we’d like to hear it AL. Sing it for us!)
It’s called “Beisbol.”
Beisbol, beisbol, you’re what I want to do
I’m half crazy all for the love of you.
I’ll outperform all the theories,
I’ll win the World Series,
I’ll even cry
When I learn I
Have won MVP number two.
P.S. Happy birthday Albert.
P.P.S. I love imdb.com
by mattybobo on Jan 16, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Jan 16, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey that's sort of my avatar...
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 16, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Christmas Part 2
Finding an lboros post on a cold mid January morning is like finding a Christmas present you happened to miss 3 weeks ago. Very cool.
Thanks for the guest post! Hopefully they become a bit more frequent (though DanUp and the boys are doing a finejob in your absence). Could we hope for one or 2 every month or is that too greedy?
"Live like you are going to die tomorrow. Learn like you are going to live forever." John Wooden
by MRCARD on Jan 16, 2009 9:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great to hear from ya!
I agree that if its between Looper, Garland, and Wolf, we might just be better to allow McClellan take over that spot. Then again, maybe something will develop once Ankiel starts looking a lot more intriguing to some of those who lost out on Dunn/Manny/Abreu. There still is a few weeks before pitchers and catchers report.
by JBagKY on Jan 16, 2009 9:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cards offseason and 2009 season
I agree with what you are saying. In the media, the Cards look to have had a bad offseason. But, there weren’t that many free agents worth signing, and most would hurt the team in the long run. Also, we have to be cognizant of the fact that we have to sign Albert in a couple of years, so that’s gotta be on their mind with every free agent negotiation.
The other point I want to make is that the Cardinals will clearly be a competitive team like all LaRussa teams and I’m sure all APu led teams. But, I don’t see this team as a World Series contender at the moment. I think we’ve got some pieces on the farm, and some maybe via trade to have a possible streak from 2010 or 2011 for another 3-5 years. That would be nice. I’d much rather have 3-5 years of dominance than 1 shot at the title. As we all know, your championship calibre team doesn’t usually win the year they should since the playoffs are crapshots. So, I figure, might as well improve your odds and get to the post season as much as possible.
by oldiz304 on Jan 16, 2009 9:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
albert probably won't sign with stl
unless we show him we are willing to compete with the other teams in the division.
"There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary. And there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance."
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 16, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's all over
cancel the cardinals. it’s done.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jan 16, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps tony needs to be told that he's supposed compete against the other teams
in the division, not help them.
It IS very awkward when, every time Albert hits a home run, Tony trots out to the mound and tells the opposing pitcher, “it’s okay. you put good effort into that pitch. you’ll get him out next time.” and then walks back into the dugout.
by tom s. on Jan 16, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol @ "Cancel the Cardinals"
well done
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
New Madrid will do it for us so might want to cancel that bulldozer rental.
Get that cheese out my kitchen.
by colbyjackscheese on Jan 17, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets...
First things first…great to hear from you LB!
Secondly…I’m still holding out hope on Sheets. If the Mets sign Perez, there just doesn’t seem to be much of a market for Big Ben. His stuff is as good as anybody on our staff, and his injury history (though abundant) isn’t the type of stuff that leads to 20IP over two seasons. He also had a mostly healthy 2008.
The main thing about him is he is the one guy out there who could make us contenders for the division rather than the wildcard. If he gets us there we all know how important dominant pitching can be in October. I know it’s a risk, but if there’s someway to do it for NO MORE THAN 2/$30M with an option I think the upside is to great to pass up. All that being said I won’t be on here with a rant WHEN some other team signs him to a 1/$12M deal the end of March.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
by cardzfanbub on Jan 16, 2009 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gooch will never, ever, NEVER be a Cub.
I don’t know exactly what rip in the fabric of time and space has landed me in this nightmare of an alternate universe, but just to be clear, in no world in which t here is a just and merciful God would Gooch be a Cub. Since I believe there is such a Being (and that he’s a Cardinal fan), I reject your reality and substitute it for one of my own. D.GOOCH
Sign Ben Sheets.
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on Jan 16, 2009 10:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
luckily it's only a spring training signing.
hopefully he won’t make it out of arizona and will be picked up by a more deserving team.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jan 16, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see the Cubs roster matrix
It seems like they just keep adding players without subtracting much. I read that they are considering Aurillia. How many utility players can they fit on that roster?
by OCCardsFan on Jan 16, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
adding players without subtracting much.
Doesn’t it seem like the Red Sox are doing that, too?
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jan 16, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jim anchower
great shout out, post aside.
by thecdude on Jan 16, 2009 10:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm more of a Gorzo the Mighty and Smoove B fan myself.
by mattybobo on Jan 16, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
one $15 M risk at a time
IMO, Carp’s health issues are preventing the Sheets signing. Could it be a case where if Carp was healthy and pain free for January/February, the team will pull the trigger on Sheets? Sheets replacing Carp makes the team better than Thompson replacing Carp, but Sheets replacing Piniero with Carp in the rotation makes the team a WS threat. FO might not want to committ the $15mm to become Wild Card contender with long odds to make or win the WS. Just trying to think like Mo.
by ubeddie on Jan 16, 2009 10:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
lboros?
Who is this person that everyone speaks of?
by saladdays on Jan 16, 2009 10:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
lboros post, chilled pepsi, sunshine
3 great things to start the day off.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 16, 2009 10:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Is there some Jack Daniels in that chilled Pepsi?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jan 16, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no JD till after 4:00pm
I do have some standards…… not much…… but some.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 16, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I may have to lower my standards.....
to Eastern Standard Time…. it’s after 4:00 there already. Now if I can only find my flask…..
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 16, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No offense to you guys that are our new hosts, but...
I LOVE me some Lboros!!!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jan 16, 2009 10:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
garland.....
I’m definitely of the opinion that in order for the cards to compete in 2009 they need to sign a guy like garland in order to bring stability and depth to this staff. It’s what this team needs.
As it currently stands really only wainwright, lohse and wellemeyer are guys that can be counted on to perform adequately from the group of starters currently on the roster. Carpenter and McCllelan are still question marks both in terms of the quality and quantity of innings they can hurl for the club.
Garland would provide 200 innings with the potential of being a very solid starter in the NL. His current resume is eerily similar to that of jeff suppan…the same age as soup when he made his first appearance in the NL….has similar IP/H/BB/K ratios in the AL…is the type of pitcher that could improve under the tutelage of dave duncan…..could be his last chance to pitch successfully enough to warrant a long-term investment…etc.
If garland could be had that’s 200 innings added to a rotation that then only needs to plug in one final hole in its rotation based on the performance/health of the two aforementioned questions marks. If carpenter is proven capable of handling the load that’s a starting staff that will keep the cardinals in every game this season. If carpenter isn’t ready to go then you have the 5th spot in the rotation available for the development of a young pitcher whether that’s mcclellan or some other guy.
Depth is not a bad thing.
It also doesn’t hurt the team over the next few years because carpenter will not be getting any younger. The team will eventually have a need to replace him (which could be now)
It just makes sense. And no, I’m not his agent.
by yargs on Jan 16, 2009 10:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
But what does Garland give us over the next 3 years....
that Garcia, Lohse, McClellan, Boggs, Todd, Lynn, Wellemeyer and others can’t provide cheaper? I would argue that we should have some solid depth going forward. What we don’t have (I’m assuming Carp will never be fully healthy) is a 1-2 punch that is really needed to man a great pitching staff.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jan 16, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If garland is signed to a 1-year contract....
…similar to what lohse received last year and proves to be a guy that may be worth an investment then you can begin to think about how that impacts the team 3 years down the road. I could see having dave duncan on staff as a bargaining chip when dealing with agents as more pitchers will see how 1 good season under his tutelage could lead to greener pastures the following year.
For 2009 I don’t think it’s wise to completely focus on 2010 and beyond when garcia, mcclellan, boggs and todd are all crapshoots that also need to prove their future value to the club with really only mcclellan being able to begin the year at the major league level.
It’s also unwise to think that the current batch of veterans will remain healthy throughout the course of the year (considering 2 of the 4 missed significant time last year…wainwright and carpenter…and another one missed a few turns himself and took him a few more spins to right himself…wellemeyer) where the team can completely ignore the value of bringing in an innings guy/capable veteran to the mix. I’m personally done watching pineiro and superbrad take turns in the rotation when injuries occur. That has proven to not be a good thing in the past.
Plus if garland succeeds and the batch of youngsters you listed above prove to be capable starting pitchers eventually at AAA or the major league level that’s a great problem to have and more chips to bargan with at the trading table.
After wainwright and carpenter the team isn’t going to find a legit #1-#2 starter out of the batch currently littering their system and neither will they be signing one in the near future. This most likely can only occur through trading proven veterans for prospects so why not put yourself in a better situation to accomplish such?
by yargs on Jan 16, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly see your point.
I guess the difference we have is the length of a Garland contract. I am all for him getting a 1-year deal. I would just hate to see the team sign him to a 3/30 type contract that can hamstring our ability to sign or trade for an impact pitcher as well as block what decent talent we have at the lower levels.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jan 16, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Cards will...
…sign Garland or anybody else of that ilk to a three-year contract. It’s pretty much the reason why they haven’t signed Looper yet. They’re probably looking for a proven workhorse-type veteran for a one- to two-year deal for less than $10 million per, hence the waiting game given the amount of starters like that on the market.
by Forsch31 on Jan 17, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good to hear from you again, LBOROS
Thanks for the post. Hope to hear your thoughts again soon.
My first memory of Cardinals baseball is seeing Darrell Porter jump into Bruce Sutter's arms on October 20, 1982!
by 82Special on Jan 16, 2009 11:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great to see Lboros around again
I love the perspective, although I also love Ben Sheets….unless me sign him and he gets injured, in which case I will shoot myself in the foot.
by t7rick on Jan 16, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
say it ain't so!
and yet, so taguchi has two world series rings in the last three years! he just might be the one sitting on the bench to bring a series to the cubs. oh, nooooooooo!
by thatsawinner on Jan 16, 2009 11:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If such a horrendous thing happens.....
Would that make So the infamous goat?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 16, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What does early onset alzheimers feel like?
Because I have no recollection of making that post.
Anyway, I think that would make So a Serow.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jan 16, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your feelings of alzheimer....
there is another OKCARDSFAN here somewhere…..
So the Serow???……. hey Dr. Seuss!…. I have an idea for a book …… oh…. he died?….. crap!
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 16, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you're ok
at least not yet. ;) that’s been my login for years.
shouldn’t get too confusing since i don’t post much. couldn’t resist today.
would have been really funny if a serow was in the bear family somehow.
by thatsawinner on Jan 16, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree to an extent.
“they didn’t lose anyone of consequence off last year’s team”
They lost Looper and expecting another 3 win season out of Lohse is a questionable assumption. The rotation looks weak to me and an area that could implode in rapid fashion. The Cardinals have done nothing to address that.
by azruavatar on Jan 16, 2009 12:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I fear that
you are oh so right about the rotation.
by cardsgirl95 on Jan 16, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
full season from Waino...
… and half a season from Carp can make up those 3 wins in a hurry. i’m not sure i’d stake the season on that, but Mo might be willing to.
by kindred on Jan 16, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Waino
Have you guys looked at our projections for him? Everyone expects 18 wins, 220 innings and a 3.00 ERA.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 16, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What are you proposing then?
rotation fodder (Garland, Looper) or a true #1-2 pitcher (Sheets, maybe Pettitte, or trade target)? FWIW I agree. The rotation is this teams glaring weakness.
Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"
...and then it hits me!!
by cardzfanbub on Jan 16, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looper...
was a better pitcher last year than Pettite. Pettite has been a better pitcher over his career, but his ERA+ last year was 98.
Looper’s ERA+ for his career is 109. His first year as a starter it dropped to 89. Last year it was 102, but his second half was significantly better than the first (95 OPS+ against for the 2nd half vs. 109 OPS+ against for the 1st half). Pettite’s OPS+ against the last half of last year was 106.
Pettite has the bigger name, but I’m afraid that signing him (especially for better-than-the-Yankee’s-money) would make for the second coming of Tino Martinez.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 16, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we will end up signing Looper
I would prefer a lefty, but Looper does make the most sense. We could probably get him on the cheap because the market is still flooded with his tier of pitchers and he is the least sexiest (although probably the best) of them.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 16, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
for probably less
than what he would have made through arbitration.
by ball in play on Jan 16, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey AZ!
Was that YOU in that very funny Conan O’Brian sketch about that crappy Fox football robot?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jan 16, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
I haven’t seen that. Is it on Youtube.
by azruavatar on Jan 16, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think so. It was on Yahoo yesterday.
That robot is doing some sort of stupid dance, and your avatar’s identical twin gets involved.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jan 16, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
right here
http://ballhype.com/video/the_fox_sports_robot_even_conan_hates_it_video/
get it before nbc takes it away
"Yeah, you can write, you can feel, you can think. Whaddaya want, a medal?" - Paul Westerberg
by Edbird on Jan 16, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha
that’s clever.
But no, that wasn’t me. I lacked the appropriate drunken stumble and/or a a franklin in hand.
by azruavatar on Jan 16, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
(It occurs to me that some people on this site have actually met me in person. For future reference, I only play a drunken sot on the internet.)
by azruavatar on Jan 16, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume you mean...
another 3 WAR season out of Lohse? If Lohse fails to win 3 games this year, then the Cardinals should be ashamed for losing 140 or so games…
by stlfan on Jan 16, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
right
3 WAR. Does anyone here still care how many Ws a pitcher is assigned.
by azruavatar on Jan 16, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You must be one of those younger people on the internet.
You know, the kind who haven’t watched him his entire career. Let me tell you!
by mattybobo on Jan 16, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
kyle lohse was the most feared pitcher of his generation
F E A R, I tell you. Whippersnappers…
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 16, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
listening to The Upsetters Collection
nice to hear the light of reason! so this begs the question, what to spend some money on if not starting pitching. I suppose replacing McClellan in the bullpen? nice Anchower shout-out, also like that guy in accounts receivable from the old Onion days, what was his name?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 16, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
nah
it was kornhauser or something like that, he always talked like a white boy gangster
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 16, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great to hear from you Lboros!
I enjoy the regular posts, but it’s great to hear from the Godfather of Viva El Birdos once in a while.
And Albert… thank you so much for being born and wearing the birds on the bat…
Happy Birthday!!!!!!!
if you can’t trust a southern lawyer cooking a kosher meal in a dumpster,
well, then, the world has grown far too cynical
by RosevilleRedbird on Jan 16, 2009 12:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What I Like About LBoros
Reading LBoros again has brought into sharper focus what it is that I like so well about his contributions. In addition to the tremendous insight, his facility with stats, and a singular writing style, what I find remarkable and (if you’ll permit me) great about our friend LBoros is the balance he brings to his analysis.
Today’s post is, without a doubt, the best defense of the Management’s approach to the off-season that I’ve read. It’s good not because it’s right—it may not be. It’s good because it is plausible and well supported.
It’s pretty easy to nit-pick about management’s moves. It is also hard to know what management is thinking because, for strategic reasons, management can’t simply put its cards on the table.
But the ability to discern what may be the subtle calculations and judgments Mozeliak and company are making is, well, remarkable.
I mention this because it’s a good exercise. When management isn’t making the move that’s urged in some fan petition, the knee-jerk reaction is to criticize. “They are tightwads!” “Tony’s an idiot.” It takes more discipline and effort to ask, “What is the best baseball case that can be made for management’s approach.”
But in the end, asking this question and finding plausible answers is much more edifying.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Jan 16, 2009 12:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i simply find conventions for capitalization to be fascist and antiquated. that’s what i like about him.
by liam on Jan 16, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lb!
Good to read you again :)
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 16, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
so I ran into Ronniee Woo Woo last night
as I often do around town over the years. he was in his usual Cubs regalia, this time with fancy cubs scarves adorning his neck (tackle box informs me that he has a movie coming out, looks like he upgraded his uniform for the winter). it’s like two opposing forces, the biggest Cardinals fan in Chitown running into the biggest Cubs fan. except I don’t walk around in a baseball uniform. I got off that train as soon as possible, don’t want to get his bad luck.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 16, 2009 1:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That was an excellent post
You really helped me make a lot of sense of this offseason. I agree that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to sign Sheets. We all know how good he is, but there are too many negatives with that. One thing you didn’t touch on was the market for our third base prospects. I think that Freese and Craig probably have a lot of value with a team like Minnesota, who can’t afford Ty Wiggington or other 3rd baseman. Minnesota has a an excess of young starting pitching, which is what we need and they would probably give up one of those guys in the right deal.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 16, 2009 1:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
jocketty did nothing more than acquire a couple of free-agent stabilizers
and he also got a younger Chris Carpenter back healthy a year removed from any surgeries. We can’t say the same thing this year.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 16, 2009 2:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
is there a carpenter analog on the market this year?
Maybe Freddy Garcia? Or even, dare I say it, Chris Carpenter?
Of course, Chris Carpenter wasn’t Chris Friggin’ Carpenter in 2004, either.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 16, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
123 ERA+
wasn’t too bad in 2004.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 16, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On the topic of
Chris F****** Carpenter, does anyone know where I could find the video of him walking off the field at Wrigley? While that sucked, the lip reading of what he was saying in response to the fans was one of the funniest things ever…
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 16, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i heard...
sailors cuss like Carp…
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Jan 16, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ben SHeets
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but sheets has already shown he’s got “ace” stuff. Carp was always considered an “ace” prospect but he never actually did it at the MLB level until 2005/2006 (and arguably 2004), which is why he was available on such a team-friendly contract.
There’s someone like that out there now, probably. Just gotta figure out who.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 16, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
im just thinking of an injured ace
at a bargain price.
granted he wont be the bargain Carp was
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 4:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully that guy is pictured to the right ------------------------------>
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 17, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ugh, back to linking verbs?
disappointing
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 17, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This post, though chock-full
of good insights, is worth the effort just for the phrase “seal in mediocrity.” I’m going to shamelessly steal that image from now on. I think my Orioles could use that as a marketing slogan: “Your Orioles: Sealing in Mediocrity since 1999.”
(BTW, their big slogan for 2008 was “This Is Birdland.” I’m thinking this year they should go for something like: “The Beer’s Always Cold and Our Guys Promise to Show Up On Time Every Day.”)
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 16, 2009 3:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Or
they could go with this: EXECUTION TO THE MAX
You’ll have to read the article they lampoon to get the full effect, but it’s worth it. Anyway, that’s a good slogan I think.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 16, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome Back Larry!
I think the thing that bothers me most about the off-season is not the fact that we haven’t made a “splashy” move… I just am sick and tired of DeWitt saying that they are going to be aggressive and they have money to spend and then a few idle months later hearing the same old bullsh#t about have to finance their own stadium and the raise in salaries of a few players that are going to totally off-set the money coming off the books.
All I’m looking for is some damn honesty… oh… and if DeWitt isn’t going to raise payroll he needs to freeze ticket prices and stop fleecing his loyal fans and pocketing the change!
by BigMac545 on Jan 16, 2009 3:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
waaaaaaaaaaaaayyy off topic
but interesting article by Andy Clark of the Department of Philosophy
Washington University
St. Louis, MO
http://consc.net/papers/extended.html
I try not to do that again
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 16, 2009 3:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wat
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Jan 16, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah
not sure why I did that post
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 16, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I took a really cool Epistemology course in college (thanks to my alma mater’s robust core curriculum you end up taking 3 standard PHI courses and one more that you choose yourself) and I find that stuff pretty interesting. Also I majored in psychology so it was a natural fit.
by mattybobo on Jan 16, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cool
I think that I could have done that major, love philosophy and find psychology really interesting (although it’s a little bit overshadowed by the Freudian stuff)
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 16, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a nod to philosophy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C8CpQgNIiU&feature=related
"Yeah, you can write, you can feel, you can think. Whaddaya want, a medal?" - Paul Westerberg
by Edbird on Jan 16, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gratitude
a very well-written opening thread, and I for one am especially grateful for the lack of acronyms.
My cold day in January thoughts include:
I don’t know why many folks are lukewarm on (or even ’cool’) to the idea of re-signing Looper; he seems to be exactly what we need to stabilize the rotation…biggest point, he’s healthy and seems to be the kind that will stay healthy.
The more I consider Ankiel being peddled the more comfortable I get with it; and the reverse with Luddy… I hope it is not him that goes.
I’m trying — really trying — to swallow the idea of Kennedy being our primary 2ndbaseman.
I have a hunch the relief pitching (established closer or not) will do a turnaround and again be a strength this year.
by the Tewk on Jan 16, 2009 4:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
looper, garland, wolfe
“stabilize” the rotation and leave us exactly where we were last year
signing sheets or trading for an equivalent talent is required if we want to be more than competitive and actually end up in the playoffs with a chance of breaking the big pinata
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jan 16, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU!
for saying it
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Kyle becomes a starter, the first question in my mind is....
….is Josh Kinney alive? ’Cause I have no freaking idea.
by sdrone on Jan 16, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Studies...
…can neither confirm nor deny the existence of the baseball pitcher codenamed JOSH KINNEY. Further investigation may be necessary.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 16, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
welcome back lb
no matter how permanent or temporary it may be…
I do have to admit that I had to do a double-take when reading the post. I don’t usually look at who wrote the article on the front page every day. I try to guess who it is by what is written. It is not too difficult (usually). However, when I saw the lower case and the writing style, I immediately went to the top to see if it really was you writing it. It’s a happy surprise.
by stlfan on Jan 16, 2009 4:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
daddy? is that you daddy?
anyone see today’s get fuzzy in your local paper? no? here it is

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 16, 2009 4:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I love Get Fuzzy...
I saw that this morning and about spit coffee through my nose….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 16, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not as good as the one...
Where Satchel wears a Cubs hat and says “I Feel Inept”. But anything making fun of the Cubs on a national stage is wonderful.
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
by DiscoJer on Jan 16, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Say, I'm new to this whole sportsnation thing
is there, like, a button that goes down to the oldest unread post? I could scroll down to the first yellow box, but a button would be much easier. Little help!
by ajabegg on Jan 16, 2009 5:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wait..
It turns out there are yellow boxes that are replies to earlier white-box posts. So a button would be pretty useless, I guess. Carry on.
by ajabegg on Jan 16, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yellow signifies a new post you havent read/marked yet
use ’z" to skip the the next unread post and mark it read……
by FunkeeC on Jan 16, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can use the
“Z” key to skip from comment to comment. There is a little guide between the post and the comments.
by spants on Jan 16, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the Z function more than anything else on the internet
and that includes porn.
Whoever designed that is awesome, this is the first and only forum ive seen with it
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, blog
not forum
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
The Z function is brilliant. I find myself trying it, to no avail, on other websites.
by spants on Jan 16, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dude, you looking at the wrong pron
and no, i’m not going to post some links. i haven’t have that much to drink. yet
i do love this Z function. now if they could only figure out how to get an edit button, this site would be perfect. perrrrrrfect
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 17, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
c goes to the next unread post
x marks it as read
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 16, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice surprise
It’s great to read another post from you lboros. Hope all is well with your family, and you.
I’m not that concerned about the offseason either. I’m not sure exactly why, but I think it is one part some confidence they are going to find some solutions late, one part an understanding of how the economic worries may change these markets (as well as a re-accessment of my priorities….I’m going to try to only get worked up about things that are within my control), and then an assurance that the prospects that show themselves ready are going to get a chance soon enough. I think the real panic would have set in if they traded Rasmus, or something of that nature.
I hope I don’t prove to be the schmuck with my head in the sand, but I’m pretty calm about what’s happening this offseason. Or I guess to put it more accurately, what isn’t happening.
by Merry CRasmus on Jan 16, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm calm too.
What will happen will happen. No use getting all worked up over it.
And if things work out poorly, if the Cards play lousy, I’m not going to be spending my recession dollars on tickets. I’m sure others will do the same. It’s a heck of a lot more effective than just banging our fists on the table.
by spants on Jan 16, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, the return of LB
What a fine day.
vivaelbirdos once again gets to read the always calm and logical words of mr. borowsky, and the cause of rigid capitalization is significantly weakened. fine post, sir.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 16, 2009 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
thanks to all for the salutations
wish i could have been on the thread in real time, but was away from my laptop nearly all day - staring at pixels on somebody else’s computer.
just a quick clarification of my position re the starting rotation. i’d be the first to agree that it’s thin - it’s far from a championship-caliber rotation. the question is, how do you go about upgrading it to that standard? i can think of three possibilities:
1. sign a top-flight starter such as sheets or pettitte
2. trade an outfielder for a good young starter with some upside potential
3. take a chance on an in-house player who has upside potential -- mcclellan, in my example
the 4th option, which i reject, is to sign a looper / garland type. i reject that option because in my opinion it doesn’t get the cards any closer to what should be their target, ie 95-win status. on the contrary, that sort of signing makes it less likely they will have an outstanding rotation, because it leaves you with three back-end, no-upside starting pitchers in your rotation: garland, lohse, and pineiro. that’s not a rotation which is built to win; it’s a rotation that’s built not to lose. it minimizes the downside risk, but it removes the upside entirely. it’s a rotation with no future.
rather than trying to cobble together an 89-win team and eke into the playoffs as a wildcard, the cards’ objective should be to identify the players who can lead them back to 95- to 100-win territory. some (maybe most) of those players haven’t proven anything yet; they just need the chance to do it.
two years ago (ie, after 2006), the cards could have signed a safe pitcher like jeff suppan or miguel batista or even jeff weaver (or 2 or 3 of those guys), and kept adam wainwright in the bullpen. that was plan A, in fact - that’s what jocketty was hoping to do. instead they couldn’t sign anyone, and wainwright got the chance to start as a fallback. lo and behold, he became our rotation anchor. they identified a player who was capable of moving the organization forward and becoming a linchpin of the next (we hope) great cardinal team.
last year, plan A was for mark mulder and/or matt clement to be in the rotation instead of todd wellemeyer; instead wellemeyer got the chance, and he developed into a new asset and moved the team forward. ditto all three of last year’s outfielders, none of whom had ever held down an everyday job in the big leagues.
so the question in my mind is, which pitcher gives the cardinals a better chance to build a great rotation - jon garland or kyle mcclellan? opinions will differ; i think mcclellan gives you a better chance, because of his greater upside; for all we know he’s a #2 starting pitcher. but mcclellan has also got a greater downside -- he could turn out to be the next anthony reyes instead of the next adam wainwright. there’s only one way to find out.
whatever decisions the cards make, i hope they are giving themselves opportunities to identify and develop new weapons, rather than merely patching holes from year to year trying to stay at (or near) the 90-win level.
by lboros on Jan 16, 2009 7:03 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
well said
but I am still concerned about mclellan’s durability – not sure he can last as a starter this year. he seemed to fall off as his innings increased last year.
"Yeah, you can write, you can feel, you can think. Whaddaya want, a medal?" - Paul Westerberg
by Edbird on Jan 16, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're winning me over to the option
of having McClellan in starting rotation, since we’d be gambling with Sheets over there being healthy anyway… cuz we’d be doing the same with McClellan, but he’s younger and hasn’t had as many injuries (at least to my knowledge)
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 16, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You should change your avatar
to a half-Sheets, half-McClellan hybrid pitcher.
by spants on Jan 16, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well...
damn… that’s a good point. or I could do the half sheets half carpenter prototype I was thinking of
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 16, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know its not going to happen
but why not Carpenter, Sheets, Lohse, Welly, McClellan?
and big Pin in the pen?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just ran through payroll
I just did the Cards payroll and guessed on Arbitration on the high sides. My guess is we have anywhere from $7 to $10M left to spend to equal last year payroll of $99M or slightly increase. I currently see us a 87 win team at best and needed to get to 90 wins to get to the playoffs.
So we have $7 to $10M plus trades to upgrade in any position 3 wins. I see no way possible to upgrade to 95 wins. This is when you get to see what kind of faith the Cardinals have in actually making the playoffs by the FO. Because the profit gained by getting in the playoffs at my best guess is additional $30M in profit. As strictly business proposition it makes great sense to invest $10M to greatly improve (30%) your chance of gaining $30M. But with the current economic downturn we are seeing great financial conservatism across the board. The smart move though is when everyone is selling is when you should be buying.
The Cardinals have been extra penny pinching this off season (Miles, Spring, Lack of Abritration…) My gut is they are saving up for one roll of the dice.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 16, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
since im ignorant of projections and all that stuff
would this situation not lend itself to 95 wins?
Sheets to the rotation, Carp to the rotation, and Perez doing well closing?
I know thats a LOT of Ifs
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we got
300IP combined of 3.75 ERA from Carpenter and Sheets plus 75 IP 3.00 ERA of Perez would only get us to 93 win
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 17, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
argh!
murder, death, kill…
three shells
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 4:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what if wainwright has career year
and puts us up to 94?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 17, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Your goal (unless you're Cincy or Pittsburgh)
should not be to be good enough to win the NL Central. It should be to be good enough to beat the Red Sox or Yankees in the WS.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jan 16, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i agree, but
do you think km needs a few starts in memphis or can he stand being thrown right in as a starter, which he has not done in 2+ years?
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jan 16, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
rec'd
the 4th option, which i reject, is to sign a looper / garland type. i reject that option because in my opinion it doesn’t get the cards any closer to what should be their target, ie 95-win status. on the contrary, that sort of signing makes it less likely they will have an outstanding rotation, because it leaves you with three back-end, no-upside starting pitchers in your rotation: garland, lohse, and pineiro. that’s not a rotation which is built to win; it’s a rotation that’s built not to lose. it minimizes the downside risk, but it removes the upside entirely. it’s a rotation with no future.
rather than trying to cobble together an 89-win team and eke into the playoffs as a wildcard, the cards’ objective should be to identify the players who can lead them back to 95- to 100-win territory. some (maybe most) of those players haven’t proven anything yet; they just need the chance to do it.
This cant be said enough.
Everything here is perfect
this team is gunshy, scared. they play not to lose, they never take a real risk.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its so true
they are so afraid of spending money, so afraid of giving years, they draft for depth and to not miss
thats why they had so many college pitchers and why they have so many pen and bench guys projected in the minors.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if certain areas of our team have acheived stability
rec’d
The Rotation:
Unless Pinero shows up in his best form (c. 2002-2003 in Seattle), I don’t see how he can be a starter. A team can only do the rope-a-dope every fifth day for so long. Every bullpen needs an innings-eater in blowouts and a spot starter.
Signing Looper, putting McClellan in the rotation, and demoting Pinero to the bullpen gives a reasonable balance of stability and potential, to me.
The Bullpen:
As last season showed, LaRussa will send whatever lefthanders he has out against any left-handed batter…again and again and again. Even if they stink. Teams pinch hit against true LOOGYs. Why wouldn’t they? A normal righthander hits like Babe Ruth against anyone on our current roster.
Signing a good pitcher who is also left handed would stop the bleeding. Someone who can go through a whole inning and not need to walk right-handed batters.
You have to pay for those. Signing Looper should leave enough money to get Ohman.
I’m all for giving McClellan and Perez a chance to shine (rotation and closer). But stable situations help young excellence to thrive. With you, I hope that our team is aiming to continue being the premier franchise in the National League.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 17, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone on our current roster
should indicate any lefthanded pitcher on our current roster, if they pitch as they have in the past
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 17, 2009 6:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nice to read you again lb
its always good to hear your perspective.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
by FutureMan on Jan 16, 2009 11:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs





















