Call to Mo: The Official "Sign Ben Sheets" Petition
by aet15 on Jan 20, 2009 7:55 PM EST
244 comments
Time for an experiment.
Let me preface by saying that I'm aware this isn't a typical FanPost and doesn't really follow the typical FanPost guidelines. But with that said, I hope you all can see past that and participate in this project. Also, please do know that I do not intend this to become a habit and will probably never make a post like this again, but what can I say? Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Over the past few months, a pretty wide sentiment has built up over VEB. We would really like Ben Sheets. Of course, there are some who do not want him, and that's totally understandable. But for those of you who do want him on our team, like me, this is the post for you.
Let's try to reach Mo. We know that some of the Cardinals front office reads this blog and that Mo somehow came across the mock-diary of him, so getting his attention isn't entirely impossible. But we can't expect him and his coworkers to the scour the rumor threads. Something like this will hopefully stand out to them.
This is why I'm proposing that we start a petition, but in order for this to work, it's going to need to be a little different than the typical thread. What if every member of VEB who would like us to sign Ben Sheets made ONE post on this thread? Just one. Nothing carried away and no long discussion. But if we each were to make a post with a simple explanation for why we would want him and what kind of deal we would like (or no explanation at all if you'd rather leave it blank with a subject), it might send a pretty powerful message.
Again, I really don't want this to become common practice, and I'm not trying to start something that will get annoying to moderate over the years, but there seems to be generally wide positive sentiment for Ben Sheets on VEB and its not like we've been begging for people all off-season. Why not channel this want for a genuine shot at being right up there with the Cubs into something and get our voices heard? Who knows? Maybe if we have enough well-constructed thoughts in one hearty FanPost, then Mo will take notice.
(update) For those interested in the most recent roster matrix, it can be found here. Signing Sheets would likely be our last signing of the offseason, but that wouldn't matter . . . because we'd have Sheets.
EXCITING NEWS: Jerry Crasnick mentioned us on his ESPN Blog: "http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove08/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3846058" Even if he doesn't read this, maybe Mo reads ESPN?
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Great Idea!
My mark:
RunninRedbird
…………………………………..x
Now that I have digitally inked my signature on the dotted line, my proposal for signing him is this:
A 2-year/$30 million deal. (I said 2@$32 in the hot stove, but I’ll come down a little bit) That is the same amount as Lowe got, but shorter due to Sheets’ injury track record. Add a 3rd year option if he reaches a certain amount of IP in the first two seasons (say 300-325 innings). Sheets has ace-quality stuff and if he continues to perform like he did last season, this deal will easily be worth it.
Hope you get to see this Moz, or at least someone of high status in the FO.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Like a true cardinal, "Only at the right price."
I would love to have him on our team, but not a cent over ten million dollars a year.
Someone will probably over pay for him and that is why we will not get him. Which is fine with me. He’s coming off his best year ever and he had a whopping 13 wins. I would love to have him, but probably not at the price that someone will give him.
by sharpwp on Jan 14, 2009 6:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sign Ben Sheets
He pitched 198 innings last year with 3.09 ERA and a 3.38 FIP. Because of the fact that he has missed as significant time in each of the previous 3 years prior to last , we should be able to get him for about the same price as an Oliver Perez. Even in the seasons that he missed a lot of time due to injury, he managed to be worth 3.5, 4.2 and 2.5 WAR respectively. Last year he had a full season and was a 4 WAR player. Even if Sheets misses half of the season due to injury, he would still be worth at least 2 WAR. Compare that to some of the other options on the market like Perez and Wolf who were worth 1.2 and 1.5 WAR respectively over a full season.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 14, 2009 6:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
very nice signature, viva el P!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He signed the
Declaration of Independence, too.
by spants on Jan 15, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Carp/Sheets two headed beast
consider this my signature to petition:
Cards Fan in Chitown
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 7:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm in.
I’ve been banging this drum for a while. Hey, MO! Let me bottom line it for you. This is the last guy out there that would actually get me excited for the upcomming season and put my but in a seat for more games. Sign Sheets and you validate all the “agressive” talk, pretty much silence the critics and show the organization is committed to winning. You want a Winter warm-up? Burn some cash!
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray
by Tupelo on Jan 14, 2009 7:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Count me in as well
Healthy Carp/ Sheets/ Wainwright as your playoff 1-2-3? We’re an instant force to be reckoned with. The line-up is already there. Add Sheets and there’s a real excitement to the season.
Sign Ben Sheets!
by bmorgan on Jan 14, 2009 7:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Several things to consider
- Ben Sheets is a type A free agent starting pitcher with an injury history and front of the rotation potential
- The Cardinals starting rotation is widely believed to be the weakest part of the team
- It is in the best interest of the organization to field a winning team to maximize profit from attendance and the additional revenue that would come from a playoff appearance
- The St. Louis Cardinals organization is believed to have adequate funds to sign Ben Sheets.
- Ben Sheets would likely stabalize the starting rotation and make the St. Louis Cardinals a force in the National League.
- The organization would lose a #1 draft pick and owe Sheets up to $30 million over the next two years, however the #1 pick may be returned upon Sheets’s departure.
All these things considered, I hereby advocate the signing of Ben Sheets to a rational contract of no more than 3 years.
thegodfather
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 7:31 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Excellent Point!
…about the return of the draft pick in a few years. I hadn’t even thought of that. This point should be made more often.
SIGN BEN SHEETS
If he’ll pitch for the league minimum, SIGN HIM. If it takes 12-15 million a year for 2 years with a 3rd year team option, SIGN HIM. “Value” signings can only go so far. Sometimes (like w/ Lohse), we have to pony up if we want someone who we think can be something special.
My first memory of Cardinals baseball is seeing Darrell Porter jump into Bruce Sutter's arms on October 20, 1982!
by 82Special on Jan 15, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
draft pick if sheets leaves via free agency
You are assuming that Sheets is a Type A Free Agent after his next contract. Should he falter and or be injured over the next two years that is no guarantee. I’m not saying I don’t agree with the signing, just that it’s not a sure bet that we’ll get a first rounder if he leaves.
by cardinal fan in chicago on Jan 15, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not at all
however the #1 pick may be returned upon Sheets’s departure.
May, not will. Big difference.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 15, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, messed up my signature
Sign Ben Sheets.
thegodfather
Founder’s season ticket holder
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 17, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sign me up
i’ll put my name on it.
Smell the Glove
by emrfg8 on Jan 14, 2009 7:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Signed
Regretfully yours,
-Zoop
Screw you, Aaron Miles. "Hope you tear your ACL, jackass!!" - Carl
by Zoop on Jan 14, 2009 7:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm in
WIZARDOFOZZIE
Sign him please. You’re killin’ me MO
There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit. ~Al Gallagher, 1971
by wizardofozzie on Jan 14, 2009 8:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Aye.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 14, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent idea!
I will even go to one of his starts!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 14, 2009 8:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
me too!
but probably not in same city
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm in, and i promise to
not go to one of his starts
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 14, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't it be funny...
If MO was posting anonymously on this thread… or he posted this thread! Oh the internet is full of possibilities! What would his avatar be… hmm…
It's not what you do, It's who you do...
by pattimagee on Jan 15, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pattimagee!
Is obviously an anagram for I’m…a teat peg?
:/
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Jan 15, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm just glad no one associated with the Cards knows what i look like
otherwise they’d have my pic posted at every gate at Busch & every other park they play at with a note underneath it saying,
NO ADMITTANCE! last time this guy came to a game Jamie Garcia blew out his elbow. The time before that, Big Mac blew out his knee. If you see this man, shoot to kill.
or something like that.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 15, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Attention/atención!
If you see a Mr. GDM, please escort him to the available seats directly behind home plate, thank you.
-background (and today’s starter, Joel Pineiro)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Jan 15, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if MO signs Sheets,
i promise to go to every Pinata start. home & away.
your move Mr. GM
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 16, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
with my "luck" AZ, i'll only have to go to his 1st start
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 16, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please Please Please
I don’t post on here much, but this is something I’d really really really like to see happen!
FiedsinEvilleIN
Jim Edmonds in a Cub Uniform Makes Me Want to PUKE!!!
by FiedsinEvilleIN on Jan 14, 2009 8:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Count me in.
"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by TurdFerguson on Jan 15, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even though I know internet petitions are worth squat
I’ll add my name along.
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 14, 2009 9:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I argue for MO and the FO all over the net and in person,
I think that they are doing a great job, so to return the favor they could sign sheets for me. Count me in.
ForesterShane
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Jan 14, 2009 9:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sign me up
Sheets is the one we need.
Ben #&^(# Sheets!!!
by RDF922 on Jan 14, 2009 9:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
done
sign me up.
"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean
by Molina4MVP on Jan 14, 2009 9:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Signed
Signing Ben Sheets has the potential to be one of the Cardinal’s highest reward signings of this decade, while being (I think) relatively unrisky. DO. IT.
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Jan 14, 2009 10:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Please sign Sheets
you’ll get a few extra attendances out of this fan. Think of the dozens of dollars!!!!
by mattyp on Jan 14, 2009 10:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Cheers,
al fritz
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Jan 14, 2009 10:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
only if he promices to not go in the DL for 2 years.
bearcatcardfan
X…………………………………
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 10:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
$%#@ yeah
colbyjackscheese
X………………………………………
Get that cheese out my kitchen.
by colbyjackscheese on Jan 14, 2009 10:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Offer Sheets
2/25 w/ 3rd year option based on innings pitched or games started.
I’m for it!
by ArkansasTravs on Jan 14, 2009 11:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheets for me
undervalues in the press at this time, I think. Was actually hoping Mo would go after him early and persistently, while everyone was focused on Burnett, Peavy, etc.
by siddfynch on Jan 14, 2009 11:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Find a really big rock, Mo
and roll it over to that tree. Reach a little higher than the low hanging fruit and pick me a nice Ben Sheets.
Signed.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 14, 2009 11:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
now that is a use of "low hanging fruit"
that I can really get behind
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 15, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have nothing clever to add
Please sign sheets.
Yours Truly,
tangledbrett
And I say England's greatest prime minister was Lord Palmerston.
by tangledbrett on Jan 14, 2009 11:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We like to think we matter don't we
What the hell. It can’t harm anything.
I support the signing of Sheets for several of the other reasons posted, plus this: it seems to me the Cards are right on the cusp of making the wildcard, but will likely fall just short to the Mets or Phillies in the 85-90 wins range. Signing Sheets will very likely strengthen to team just enough to push us nto the playoffs.
Pull the trigger Mo — push us over the top.
Gregatron is not responsible for any of the crap he just wrote.
by Gregatron on Jan 15, 2009 12:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Please sign him
He’s one of the best pitchers in league and probably more affordable now than any pitcher of his ilk is ever likely to be. 3 years? No problem.
by capn crunch on Jan 15, 2009 12:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes, please
Sign him, sir.
Asufan550
http://overzealousfan.blogspot.com
by asufan550 on Jan 15, 2009 12:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Glad to see this is going well.
If we get Sheets, I’ll even buy a jersey. Hooray for revenue!
-aet15
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jan 15, 2009 1:12 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
partial
i haven’t the med reports that are reportedly scaring every team off Sheets. so, a qualified endorsement:
if the reports are bad, offer a 1 year guaranteed with incentives and a 1 (or 2) year vesting option.
if the reports are better than the rep they’ve gotten, offer 2 + vesting option.
for either, prime money is acceptable; supposedly we’ve got $12-15mn left; blow it all there, add some incentives and options, get creative. if the med report is optimistic, then he’s the guy.
if not, wait and re-sign Loop for less than we’d’ve paid in arbitration.
by kindred on Jan 15, 2009 3:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Except I would rather sign a lefty than Loop. I’m sure that one of Perez, Wolf or Pettite will be available by ST so we could wait and give Lohse-type deal to one of them.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 15, 2009 3:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Run away from Randy Wolf
as fast as you can.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 15, 2009 3:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes please
love,
effin
defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.
by effin fisk on Jan 15, 2009 5:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Got to do it
Don’t have to like it, just got to do it.
by DJ4508 on Jan 15, 2009 8:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have been a huge conspirtor in signing Sheets
I even sent Mo a nice pair of egyptian 1000 thread count for Christmas to grease the wheel, but after reading this article at THT and seeing his mechanic stills topped off with the fact that he has gotten NO interest this winter from teams that can actually see his medical reports has me rethinking it a bit…if we can get him on a 1 yr+ team option deal i think it might be worth it but anything more guaranteed and i dont think i would pull the trigger…the still of him right as his front foot his hitting the ground under the heading “The Step” looks awful similar to Mulder the way he is dragging that arm/backside. this makes me worry more about his shoulder which is way more severe than an elbow as we all know.
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Jan 15, 2009 8:29 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sheet does have a serious injury risk
But even if we only have him for half a season, he would still likely be more valuable than any other FA starter out there over the course of a full season except for maybe Pettite. According to Fangraphs, Sheets was a 4 WAR player last year when he pitched a full season. The previous 3 seasons when he was injured and missed significant time, he still managed to put up WARs of 3.5, 4.2 and 2.5. Those compiled in a half season are much better than Wolf, Looper or Perez over full seasons. I would say to sign him to a long term deal, because even if he is injured, he is more valuable than most other pitchers.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 15, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with this point
but if his shoulder is shredded then he his not going to keep being this affected and maybe less affective than the 3 other players you named…i.e. Mulder…why arent teams even sniffing this guy? there has to be something major on his Medicals that are scaring people away…hell even AJ Burnett signed quickly…
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Jan 15, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy Neault's analysis.
He is being compared, for health, to Josh Beckett. Josh Beckett? Really? Neault blames Sheets’s health entirely on his high arm slot. He has never had shoulder surgery or even a definite tear of any of the muscles of his shoulder. He has never had elbow problems to speak of (Josh Beckett? Seriously?). Many (most) of his injuries are unrelated to his arm (hamstring, viral infection, finger tendon tear, left groin strain). If anything, it looks more like his conditioning is crap and his throwing motion is a bit too athletic for his body type (no one complains when Lincecum leans back toward first to get that high arm slot, but Lincecum does backflips and hand-stand pushups).
Neault throws out a lot of jargon (for instance naming most of the muscles of the rotator cuff, whoop dee doo you took anatomy) and derives a conclusion that is speciously unfounded.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Jan 16, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, it's hard to NOT want ben sheets
if a reasonable deal can be reached, even if it puts the team a bit over ideal payroll, please sign him, I would say.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 15, 2009 8:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let's get it done
THE fourstick
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 15, 2009 8:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheets plz
lunchboxbomb/Paulie
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
by lunchboxbomb on Jan 15, 2009 8:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Potential impact player? Check.
Position of need? Check.
Willingness to sign short-term? Check (likely).
by AndyB83 on Jan 15, 2009 9:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
w00t!
Yeah, I’m a nerd.
But I’m a nerd that would love to see Ben Sheets for 1-2 years guaranteed. Throw an option year on the end if you can!
by mtalken on Jan 15, 2009 9:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Keep Dreaming
Sorry to be a downer, but I don’t see Mo going for it. Too conventional.
Mo will wait until Sheets has been injured and has not player for at least two years before considering him, and then only for a one year contract at $1 million.
If we are lucky, Mo will pick up Garland or Perez. If we are unlucky, which is very likely, the only other addition is a LOOGY, and Thompson will start every fifth game.
Just the thought of it makes me want to puke . . .
Prove me wrong, Mo, but I’m cynical.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Jan 15, 2009 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
this reply does not help the cause
we don’t need no negativity in this thread! Change your mind post and I will give you a real dollar, not an internet one!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 15, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Question
Has there been any report or even a rumor of a report that the Cardinals are even considering Ben Sheets?
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Jan 15, 2009 10:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
no
that’s why we’re doing this. he should be in consideration, and we want him to be in consideration.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jan 15, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok I'll bite
Just do 2 things
1- Tell me how much it will cost to get Sheets? What is he even asking for?
2- Use a roster matrix to tell me whether or not the Cardinals have that amount to spend.
If you can do those 2 things. I will personally sign your petition.
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Jan 15, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We've done the roster matrix portion.
We also looked at what the raises are probably going to be for Ank, Schu, Welley, and Ludwick in arbitration. We’ve decided that if the payroll stayed the same as last year we’d have about $10M to spend and if the payroll went where DeWitt said it could go we’d have about $20M to spend.
I’m not going to get into 2009 yet because the arbitration guys are too hard to predict two years out.
As far as what Sheets is looking for, I’m assuming that it’s gone up since Lowe signed his contract. He made $11M last season and declined arbitration from Milwaukee, so I’ve got to assume that he’s looking for at least $15M for next season, because anything less than that he could have received in arbitration from Milwaukee. I don’t think he can expect anything more than a 3 or 4 year contract, and I think he may actually be better off taking a 1 or 2 year deal for a bit more money per year to prove that he’s healthy and then try to make a big payday after next year or after 2010, when the free agent pitching market is full of crappy starters.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jan 15, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So can they fit his contract???
If the cardinals can fit him into a $100MM payroll on a 1 or 2 year deal…. then I’m in.
Your indicating that the Cardinals have appx $10MM to spend, after arbitration raises and lets face it- with the economic downturn the payroll is not going up this year.
If he is indeed looking for 15MM, I don’t think the Cardinals can afford him. That why I think this is a pipe-dream and people should not waste energy wishing for it.
However, if the Cardinals CAN get Sheets to sign a 1-year deal and are also willing to increase payroll over $100MM to make it happen… I say go for it!
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Jan 15, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arbitration raises
minus Ankiel should put us in the right ballpark.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 15, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They had $9M for fuentes
so that’s 3/5 of the $15M right there.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 16, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure the Cards could afford and extra 5 mil for one year
DeWitt has a ton of money and there are also plenty of things we could do with deferred money to make it happen. If we really wanted to get Sheets than we could afford it.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 16, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I vote yes.
Sheets could potentially help the Cardinals add more regalia to their palatial trophy room.
by STLRegalia on Jan 15, 2009 10:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Si Si, Pedro.
Long time reader, first time responder. Well done, folks. Let’s get Sheets signed up with an injury clause to give us some insurance in case he does not pitch at all. Otherwise, I am on board.
"Yo bartender! Jobu needs a refill." - Harris, Major League
by Pedro Cerrano on Jan 15, 2009 10:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let's Play Win Ben Sheets' Money
Mo, this really needs to get done. Reach a little (but not too much).
O.C. Cardsfan.
by OCCardsFan on Jan 15, 2009 11:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Make the MOve
Be aggressive – offer 2 yrs/$32.75 with incentives + 3rd yr vesting option based on two year average of 150 IP. Give the offer a 24 hour window to accept.
The OF surplus (Ank or Skippy not Ludwick) isn’t going to garner anything better than a AA starter with potential. The lost first round pick might make the Majors in 2012 and AP is not getting any younger.
by ubeddie on Jan 15, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm on the Sheets bandwagon
Let’s go, Mr. Mo!
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:
by gocards62 on Jan 15, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
i'm in
let’s do this mo…not sure i can take 25+ starts from piniero
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 15, 2009 11:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Im In. Signed.
Dang Penguins.
Aaron Miles is worth it.
by dangpenguins on Jan 15, 2009 12:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dear Mr. Mozeliak,
When he’s healthy, Ben Sheets has proved to be an absolute beast. Please please please let us get what we want.
Your pal,
A.C.
by Anonymous Communist on Jan 15, 2009 12:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Like Maris in 61*
Here is my X
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 15, 2009 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
count me in
As a good friend of mine says, Fortune favors the bold. Go for it, and you very well may be handsomely rewarded.
"Statistics mean nothing to the individual"
"You are what you eat and you clearly went out and devoured a big fat guy"
by jacksonian on Jan 15, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This will be my first post
But it’s WELL worth it. I’d LOVE to have Sheets! Count me in
by Squambepoo on Jan 15, 2009 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE, MO
Please sign Ben Sheets. Please, please, please. 2/25, with a vesting 3rd year option based on 320 IP.
I would also be thrilled if you could package Ankiel and a minor-league pitcher not named Jess Todd for Kelly Johnson or Andy Sonnanstine.
But for this thread, please: sign Ben Sheets.
actually e'contending mang
by nycbirdo on Jan 15, 2009 1:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
To sign Sheets
the Cards would need to shed more payroll. The obvious candidate is Rick Ankiel because (a) we have a suitable replacement waiting in the wings who plays for league minimum (Rasmus) and (b) we’re unlikely to pony up and resign Rick in 2010 when he is a free agent (see Boras). If we need even more payroll savings, then dump both Ankiel and C. Duncan. That’s probably 3-4 million in savings. We have enough depth to replace these guys.
If the Cards can get Sheets w/ only 2 guaranteed years for like $28 mill. plus some modest option buyout for the 3rd year, we need to make that move. We’ll be fine in the pen. The rotation is the biggest worry on this team at present. And I love the point that Sheets is likely to be a Type A when he departs netting us back the lost pick.
by jjray on Jan 15, 2009 1:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You people are ridiculous
Lets cut to the chase. Sheets is an upgrade when healthy. But we don’t know how many starts he might make. And we DO know he would cost a 1st Round Pick (unless someone gets really creative).
By all means sign Sheets IF:
-Its a deal heavy with incentives for innings played
-Its a multi-year deal (plus option years)
-No more than $7M per year (plus incentives)
I’m sure he’s on the Cardinals radar. They’ve seen him pitch and know he’s good. But he has to fall to a good price. This piece of fruit is hanging low enough yet. ;-)
by JWO on Jan 15, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
An upgrade when healthy
Understatement of the year thus far.
Screw you, Aaron Miles. "Hope you tear your ACL, jackass!!" - Carl
by Zoop on Jan 15, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's still early in the year ;)
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 15, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please!
Sign Sheets Moz!
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jan 15, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sign him, Mo.
If you have to free up cash to make the signing more palatable, then move Glaus for a 2B or a reliable lefty reliever. Force Tony into making 3B an open competition between Freese, Wallace and Craig in spring training.
by sabertooth5185 on Jan 15, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't it be awesome
to have Sheets pitch against his former team a few times a year? Sign him!!!!
by ultimatecardinalfan on Jan 15, 2009 4:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
For example
this is what we want to see, Mo -———————————————————————————————————→
I’ll start calling you The Moz if you sign Sheets, you be like the Fonz, instead of just Mo
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2009 5:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
stupid preview made aarow look different
but you get the point
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Screw the roster matrix!
Dewitt has said they would go above projected payroll if they thought they could get a difference maker, and a healthy Sheets = IMPACT.
Screw the 1st round pick, because they’ll just bypass every Boras client and take some low hanging high school fruit anyway. The draft pick means nothing when you can just waltz down to Central America and start throwing cash around and find a gem.
Screw the Brewers, and every other team who apparently won’ t touch Sheets with a 10 ft. poll, even though they were throwing cash at Sabathia like drunken sailors.
SIGN BEN SHEETS!
(and yes I voted twice like a good Democrat. This petition is sponsored by ACORN)
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray
by Tupelo on Jan 15, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
[Insert Chicago political joke here]
by mattybobo on Jan 16, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good windy city democrat's vote early & often
so he should have voted at least 5 times by now. slacker.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 16, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I remember...
the chicago republicans paid more per vote though, LOL.
Chuck Norris bows to no man...but he does bow to The Mang.
by miniboscorino on Jan 20, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm signing
Hope he’s healthy….
Red Bird Dude
by redbirddude on Jan 15, 2009 7:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheets Makes Sense
Sheets, to me, is the best option for improving this team. He has as good of stuff as anyone when he is healthy and health is obviously the concern. Even though health is a concern, he is worth the gamble.
Sheets would greatly improve the chance of the Cards making the playoffs and making the playoffs would bring in revenue that would more than off-set his salary. It is therefore, in my opinion, a smart business decision.
by Warcard on Jan 15, 2009 9:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
sign another injured guy
why dont we resign mulder while were at it
by bornin82 on Jan 15, 2009 9:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wake up and smell the Mo, Mo.
The Mo is moing to Mo for Mo Sheets. Mo Mo Mo. Mo Mo Mo Sheets.
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jan 15, 2009 10:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Mo is the Show Me State
Show me the Sheets, Mo.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 15, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away.
I mean a Ben Sheet’s signing.
… MO!
by mattybobo on Jan 16, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As I noted in another thread...
signing Ben Sheets is my single minded mantra from here until he is no longer available.
On an aside, I find it interesting that three of my top offseason targets are still there to be had: Ben Sheets, Orlando Hudson, & Wil Ohman. I’d be happy at this point for one of them…but all three would seem like mana from Heaven.
Sign Ben Sheets.
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on Jan 15, 2009 11:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
seriously...
… it’s very concerning that Sheets hasn’t been given a single offer yet from any team. it really seems that nobody believes that he’s healthy. the mets seem to have all sorts of cash for another pitcher, and they’re ignoring him. the Cubs were prepared to add Peavy’s contract — which would be more than they’d have to pay Sheets just in dollars, much less talent — and they’re not even looking at him. the Braves added Vasquez, Kawakani, and Lowe (all for big money) and never even glanced in Sheets’ direction. other teams with money — angels, dodgers, yanks, bosox, chisox — aren’t biting and in fact are signing other injury risks instead (Penny, Smoltz). the only team to clearly express interest is the rangers, who are desperate for any kind of pitching, and even they are majorly concerned about the medical reports.
the only sensible conclusion is that those med reports are pretty grim. apparently he’s got shoulder AND elbow problems, plus the history and baggage to boot. he really might not be able to pitch next year, or not for very long. and if the Cards throw their last $10+mn at him and he’s hurt, then we’ve got another Mulder/Carp situation, and likely another lost season. i don’t think the team is in the position to take that gamble.
of course, i could be wrong and the med reports aren’t so bad. if that’s the case, then the BoB should blow the rest of their wad and sign him. but at this point it really looks like Sheets is damaged goods.
by kindred on Jan 16, 2009 12:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mets aren’t ignoring him. They want an incentive based contract and he doesn’t.
by ol Pete on Jan 20, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Count me in
Go get ’em Mo!
SHUCardinal
Let's Go Yadi
by SHUCardinal on Jan 16, 2009 12:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The trade off
I look at all the Type A free agents and think would I give up another draft pick like the up and coming Walrus? For a HEALTY Ben Sheets I definitely would.
Not may of the others available seem to be worth the trade off.
by Bobmang on Jan 16, 2009 12:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sign Sheets
First post ever! In fact I’m a long time reader here and I finally just created an account just so I could post here. Get’m Signed! 2 yrs/26M with 3rd year Option if he pitches 170 innings in the second year.
by kipher79 on Jan 16, 2009 9:18 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Take the Risk
If we can get a #1 starter for #3 starter dollars, it’s always worth the risk because even if he declines or gets injured you are still getting your value out of him. It’s not going to take Derek Lowe dollars or 4 years (at least I hope not) and I consider Lowe and Sheets to be of similar talent (when healthy). Ben Sheets’ ERA for the past 3 seasons combined is 3.49 over 445.2 IP (148 ip/yr) through injury trouble! Lowe’s ERA for the past 3 years = 3.58 over 628 IP (209 ip/yr). So here’s the story: if we get Sheets now, we’re definitely buying low and even over the past 3 years he’s averaged near 150 innings per season. I expect him to move back towards his average season (180 IP with an ERA of 3.7). This move makes a whole lot of sense If for nothing else, then for the aded confidence of the ball club/fan base, which should not be taken lightly. This signing would do great things for our rotation and would keep us from having to give starts to players like Joel Piniero, Brad Thompson and Jaime Garcia. Think of our rotation: Carpenter, Sheets, Wainwright, Lohse, Wellemeyer and in reserve: Piniero, Garcia, Thompson. Then think of the added benefit to the bullpen. We will have some quality long/middle relievers in Piniero, Garcia, and Thompson. Now that’s a contending team.
by aaron_notmiles on Jan 16, 2009 9:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Incentives
The great thing about this offseason has been Boston’s leadership on contract offers. Over the years, I have continually scratched my head in bewilderment as to why clubs offer such ridiculous guaranteed contracts to high injury-risk players. Boston’s signing of Smoltz, Saito & Baldelli to low base incentive-laden contracts ought to be the blueprint for our signing Sheets, especially when the offers to him right now seem close to non-existent.
Offer a base of $5-6 million with bonuses such as $1 mil if named NL starter of the month, $2 mil if voted in Top 10 Cy Young voting. $1.5 million for every 50 IP. I’m sure there are other options out there. But it should be like a sales job, give him a base for a little peace of mind and then set goals for him to attain that are in the interest of his and the club’s success. if his market still remains truly this dry, offer him something like this, where he can earn $16-$20 mil with a great year and the Birds making the playoffs.
Signed, Bag of Balls
by bagofballs on Jan 16, 2009 10:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
all well and good...
… but Smoltz got $6mn guaranteed, and he doesn’t even have a chance to pitch until the end of May. plus he’s 12 years older and only threw 28 innings last year. it really isn’t a cheap contract.
and incentive-based deal for Sheets would have to guarantee twice that, plus be a multi-year deal. and there might be a premium for any NL Central team not in Wisconsin.
i’m fine with the incentive deals. i generally like them. of course, they only work if you have sufficient payroll flexibility. Boston has this; i’m not sure we do.
by kindred on Jan 16, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets is no Smoltz
He doesn’t have the rep or the HOF status the would require paying that much for a half a season like the ‘stos and Yanks did with Clemens. Also few teams but the Sox could afford to give out that kind of deal. I like Bagofballs’s idea about incentives. On a 1 year deal with a lowish base salary but the potential to be worth close to 20 mil. That would probably be more attractive to Sheets, than the 2 year 18 mil contract that is probably awaiting him. If he gets injured, than we don’t pay him a lot and he goes into a much weaker FA class in the same situation he is in this year. If he is healthy and pitches great, then he makes a ton of money this year and he goes into a weaker FA class in the same situation as Burnett.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 16, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Sheets and
an incentive-laden deal is that he is coming off an excellent season. Usually when a player signs an incentive-based deal, it’s to prove themselves. Sheets probably already feels that he HAS proven himself,
I’m not saying he won’t eventually sign an incentive deal. But I can understand why he wouldn’t want to shoulder all the risk. (Pun slightly intended.)
by spants on Jan 16, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would hurt his ego
But it would make the most sense for him.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 16, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets Injury Risk
As I recall, the Brewers offered Sheets arbitration and he declined. That tells me that the injury risk isn’t as bad as it’s being made out to be. I think the arbitration offer was something on the order of $15M per. I can’t understand why all the other clubs are leaving him alone but the Brewers know him better than anyone and offered the $15M.
I say sign him with high incentives.
by OldieWan on Jan 16, 2009 11:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Didn't think of that
If Sheets is really hurt, he would have taken the arbitration. SIGN HIM!
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 17, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not necessarily...
… if he’s injured, he’d want to get a multi-year deal rather than a one-year deal, even if the AAV is a little less.
i’m sure Sheets thought that even with injury concerns he could get at least a 3/$40 deal (well below his market value if he’s healthy). suppose he’d get $15mn next year in arb (i have no idea if that’s realistic). if he thinks he’s hurt or will be hurt sometime in the next year, then he’d rather have the 3-year deal.
by kindred on Jan 17, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
Unless his injury is described in his rumored medical reports. That would make it highly unlikely for him to get a good multi year deal if teams all knew that his shoulder was about to explode.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 17, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MIL...
… apparently offered him $15mn to not go to arb (read that somewhere; can’t remember where). if MIL was prepared to do that, then some other team would surely offer him 3 years. the market surely looks different now than it did in November, but CC, AJ, and Lowe still all got paid.
Sheets is going to get several guaranteed years. no question. and if he doesn’t, he can still go back to MIL on a 1-year deal. he may not get $15mn from them at this point, but he’ll get something close to that, and then he can try again next year.
by kindred on Jan 17, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Roll Z Dice
If Carp is injured the season is screwed anyway. It will be no less screwed with Sheets and Carp hurt. Do it!
3/30!
by Lawless on Jan 16, 2009 2:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
please please please please please please
love,
stlcardinalsfang
by stlcardinalsfang on Jan 16, 2009 3:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What the hell.
I’ve stayed away from this issue but I generally trust the VEB consensus when it appears to be back by good arguments (a characteristic which makes it almost unique among popular consensi).
Furthermore it is my opinion that Ben Sheets must be signed.
Sheets acquirendus est!
by mattybobo on Jan 16, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I sign
because I think that Sheets is the only player left on the FA market, where we have a hole, that could realistically get us to the playoffs
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 16, 2009 11:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
if you feel that Sheets is not damaged goods
then i would be very happy to have him signed.
season ticket holder
by DoItForTheFans on Jan 17, 2009 4:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Signed...
I’m on board.
I’m sure the FO is skeptical after the problems with Carp, but an incentive laden contract could/would alleviate a lot of those concerns. Unless the Cards saw something on his medical records that’s really, really scary…I think he’s worth the risk.
by AirForceCardsFan on Jan 17, 2009 5:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
seriously though
no risk, no reward…
its kind of like lbor said in his post today
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 6:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Late to the party
But I’ll jump on this bandwagon.
I only am who I am because I was born that way. I have a gift and I'm trying to not be selfish about it, but to use it, OK? Jealousy will get you nowhere!
by Dave Barry on Jan 17, 2009 10:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh why not,
let’s do it. I like this plan. I’m excited to be a part of it.
Signed,
Matt Burgener
[Homer shows Bart "Wonderbat".]
Bart: Wow. How many home runs you gonna hit with that thing?
Homer: Let's see... We play thirty games. Ten at-bats a game. Mm...three thousand.
by boog on Jan 17, 2009 2:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see Sheets here, but
It would suck to give Milwaukee our 1st round pick.
Hopefully the Yankees will sign Sheets and the Brewers will be stuck with the Yankees’ 4th rounder.
by Czechguardsman on Jan 17, 2009 4:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
but when sheets leaves
we get a first rounder and a sandwich.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 17, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what the F. just do it.
Risky move for sure. But i love to gamble. the upside has world series potential all over it. Lets freakin do it MO!!!
Why don't we get glausy eyed and put back some franklin's....
by punksoulbrutha on Jan 17, 2009 5:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not worth 15 Mil.
but it sounds like he may get it.
I don;t mind letting him pass at that price as long as we get someone else mentioned at a lower amount.
I think all of the support for this signing is because the expectation is that if we do not get him than the offseason signings are over (which very well may be the case). But that does not mean that we should over pay for damaged goods or over pay period. If he turned down 15 mil, I doubt he will sign an incentive laden contract with less than 10 mil guaranteed. To anyone that thinks he is worth 15 mil per I ask you.
How many times has he won 15 games?
by sharpwp on Jan 17, 2009 8:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Okay, so he hasn't won 15 games..
But 7/8 seasons he has double digit wins, and that’s with being injured. Depending on where he is in the rotation, he may not have as much pressure as he did in Milwaukee(IMO until Sabathia they really didn’t have great pitching other than Sheets). I think he will have less pressure here than in MIL, which means much less of a physical toll on his body.
by Taskmaster on Jan 17, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wins
Wins are about the most worthless stat when measuring a pitcher. Sorry, but it’s true.
I look at Ben Sheets and see he has posted a 2.70 ERA in 2004 and hasn’t posted an ERA above 3.82 since. I look at his career FIP of 3.56 and his career K/BB ratio of 3.85.
If you have to look at the fact that Sheets has never won 15 games, compare that to the record of the Brewers for those first years he played for them
Year/ BrewersRecord/ Sheets Record
2001/ 68-94/ 11-10
2002/ 56-106/ 11-16
2003/ 68-94/ 11-13
2004/ 67-94/ 12-14
2005/ 81-81/ 10-9
2006/ 75-87/ 6-7 (17starts)
2007/ 83-79/ 12-5
2008/ 90-72/ 13-9
Basically, until 2007 the Brewers were horrendously bad. Awful. Do you ever really expect an ace of a staff to get 15 wins if the team isn’t consistently capable of 70?
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 17, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
give us sheets
yes please 1 year 14 mil guaranteed 3mil in incentive, team option for 15.5mil with 3 mil in incentives
by thenextgen on Jan 17, 2009 9:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Count me in.
-- Aidan Sonoda
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.
by Aidan Sonoda on Jan 18, 2009 6:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheets
if healthy, puts the Cardinals into serious contention. Count me in!
(Had I a sig, it would fill this space….)
Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!
by Paulspike on Jan 18, 2009 10:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Count me in
i live in milwaukee and the best pitched game i’ve ever seen in person was mr sheets on opening day 2 years ago vs LAD. cg 2h 1er 3k. he did not have his curveball for most of the game, but was still dominant. sign him up. tomorrow
by mopack on Jan 19, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
per MLBTR...
… citing a Mets blog, Sheets is seeking 2/$18 plus an option. for that money, and if he’s got anything left in that arm, it needs to get done.
by kindred on Jan 20, 2009 1:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If that is what he is seeking
than we could get him for less.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 20, 2009 2:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i mean come on.
im hurting for money but if hes healthy ill throw in a hundred bucks
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 20, 2009 5:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If he's willing to sign for 2/18...
The Cardinals could structure a contract like this
’09: 8MM base salary
’10: 10MM vesting option based upon 160 IP in 2009 (1MM buyout)
’11 12MM vesting option based upon 160 IP in 2010 (2MM buyout)
Thats 9MM guaranteed (they can afford it) and protection in case he’s hurt.
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Jan 20, 2009 9:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He'd never sign that
He can get more guaranteed money than that, probably.
Then again, none of us really know what his medical report looks like.
by mojowo11 on Jan 20, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't signed this yet
but at 2Y $18M, you can’t pass that up, so I’m in.
Thattius A. Winner
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jan 20, 2009 11:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE MO, SAVE US!!!!
Sign Sheets, sign him!!! He’s our new arm!!! Hope it doesn’t fall off cuz we’ll send him back to the farm!!!
Miniboscorino
Chuck Norris bows to no man...but he does bow to The Mang.
by miniboscorino on Jan 20, 2009 8:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
put another log on the fire for me
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Jan 20, 2009 8:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cards fans deserve another championship run
Mo’ do the right thing and sign Sheets.
by NRM518 on Jan 20, 2009 9:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No Brainer.
Sheets would be a steal at 2/18. It’s unlikely he would want an option year, which is fine. He has the potential to be the Ace of the staff if healthy. I would take him and be happy with 25 starts/year, especially if some of those came in October. Gives the youngsters some needed time to develop as well.
by ShannonIsn'tSober on Jan 20, 2009 10:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheets!!!
I’m tired of this guy putting up numbers against us. Why not have him putting up zeros for us? I’m in.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
by albrtfn on Jan 21, 2009 12:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheets to the Nth degree.
RE: addendum — I have enough faith in Mo to think there’s at least even odds he spends more time here than at ESPN.
by tom s. on Jan 21, 2009 2:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
plus
this petition is famous!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 21, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it is?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 21, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it was on ESPN anyway
more than dozens…
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 22, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they mentioned VEB?
or just that the fans want sheets?
I think there is a petition on stl today also
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 25, 2009 4:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yup
this very petition was mentioned in an espn article, hence my comment
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 25, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes to sheets
"There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary. And there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance."
by Bahamaredbird on Jan 21, 2009 9:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes to Sheets
DGoold, just said the Card’s payroll is around $90 mil, we could give him $5-6 mil for one year and that would help solidfy the rotation!
That would sell some tickets.
by briferg07 on Jan 21, 2009 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm signing the petition
Here’s my sig. Unfortunately I doubt this happens. I’d put the odds at 1 in 100.
I hope they do it, but but I heard Mo on 550 at the Winter Warmup saying they wouldn’t look for a SP until spring and only if Carpenter looks like he can’t go. He said it’s easy for us fans to look at the current SPs as sunk cost (read: Joel Pinata) but they have a budget and the 5 current starters are a big part of it.
by felone on Jan 22, 2009 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
No need to risk it on this guy
Spending $12- $15 million on a guy who has had 4 straight seasons w/ injury issues? How about, instead of crossing our fingers on Sheets, we collectively cross our fingers on Carpenter and leave it at that?
by thecardinallaw on Jan 22, 2009 3:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
he's not asking for that much,
and his injury troubles are nowhere near Carpenter’s. He’s started at least 20 games (and that’s being safe) in all but one seasons in his career and started 31 last year with 198 IP.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jan 22, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
also,
chances are that one of sheets or carp is good to go at any one time for the bulk of next season. So, we’d just be crossing our fingers on one of them. Carp doesn’t magically disappear if Sheets gets signed.
And damn, if they are both healthy…
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jan 22, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Law of Averages has to be on our side with this one... doesn't it?
"If you want some get in line, but bring a lunch mutha f*cka." -Ice Cube
by SethCity on Jan 22, 2009 10:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheets is #2 for me at this point
I woud rather we sign Orlando Hudson, but nothing I’ver heard or read says we are going in that direction. Therefore I’m behind us signing Sheets.
by Stevo5 on Jan 22, 2009 11:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nah, Signing Ben Sheets has my support
We really can’t, or won’t, sign Hudson until we get rid of Kennedy’s awful contract.
by Taskmaster on Jan 23, 2009 7:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
signing Sheets
would be several magnitude greater than signing Hudson
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 23, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mr Hicks has his sights set on our boy MO
you better not let this happen MO
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 23, 2009 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The avatar is getting changed
Until he get’s signed, there’s still HOPE!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 23, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More news on the Sheets front
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/43741
Of course, A guy like Sheets who is seeking employment isn’t going to be circulating negative health reports…
by Beware the Molinas on Jan 23, 2009 7:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
True, but if he lied
the team would have a valid case for voiding his contract.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 24, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That
is a good point. Too bad we apparently don’t need a starting pitcher.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 24, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Roll the dice, Mo!
I’m in. Please sign him!
by legal dealer on Jan 24, 2009 3:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
we should give this up
Mo said in the chat the other day that other teams could afford to take risks like this (well he said Penny, Saito ect…)
but the Cards just cant…
and since we know they cant afford to spend on the top healthy talent, that means the best we can hope for is crud like Garland.
I suppose this means no Wolf either? (not that I mind)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 25, 2009 4:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
at this point
i’d take Garland!
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Jan 25, 2009 9:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ben Sheets... not a good idea
Yeah, the guy puts up good numbers, but need I remind you that he is very injury-prone? I would be content to get Looper back.
by zoomzoomj88 on Jan 25, 2009 10:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You really don't need to remind us.
You’ll notice most of our arguments for signing him include the fact that he’s injury prone. We’re well aware of the risks behind him, but we still think he’d be a wise signing to the 2 year deal being reported.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jan 25, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and I would still prefer a Ben Sheets
who might miss several starts a year to a middling Braden Looper.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 25, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Looper gives us a solid rotation that could possibly get us to the playoffs. Sheets gives us an outstanding rotation capable of a deep playoff run. He’s worth the injury risk.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 25, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And even if he misses time
he will still be worth more than Looper
by vivaelpujols on Jan 25, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
need I remind you that he is very injury-prone?
No.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 25, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so take a risk on getting better?
vrs the safe bet and being the same as last year?
the way I look at it is you sign Sheets and you have a shot at getting better (or worse) or sign Looper and stay the same talent level as last year?
The only real upgrade we have this year is Greene and hes a wild card.
I mean does anyone think this team is championship caliber?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 25, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do
I’ve said this a million times, but we have actually upgraded quite a bit without really doing anything. The bullpen is now a potential strength, whereas last year it cost us a playoff birth. We have some players with serious upside on offense like Ankiel, Greene, Rasmus and Mather. The rotation is a wild card but if we get any luck with Carp, and Welly and Lohse pitch well again, than it looks pretty good as well. One good starter would make us a championship caliber team. BEN SHEETS. Even if he is injured he would be a 2-3 WAR upgrade over Piniero. If he and Carp are both healthy then… Waino, CArp and Sheets are better than anybody else in baseball.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 25, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just dont understand how we upgraded
ill certainly give the kids a chance over the top of the pen last year, but I know know if our LHRP is going to be any better.
We have two shits (thrown at the wall to see if they stick) and one guy who was good last year but we know he has a tear in his shoulder.
Greene was horrible last year (worse than usual) and has never lived up to his potential. Maybe he can maybe he cant improve this year.
I just dont see where the upgrade is. I see where it could be, but I also see where it probably wont.
This team is afraid of making any kind of substantial moves.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 26, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
judging by this post we have improved quite a bit on the LOOGY front. It also shows that signing Ohman or Shouse would makes us that much better than we are now.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 26, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Questioning the LOOGY
Assuredly, we need a starting pitcher more, but I think there also exists a need for a good pitcher who is also left-handed.
Villone pitched to more right-handed batters last year than to left-handed ones (121 PA vs 108). So did Flores (67 vs. 64).
Having one LOOGY (by definition, a guy who you have around in order to get that one left-handed batter out) can make sense, because a team will not pull its big left-handed slugger (Howard, Ortiz, etc.) no matter who is on the mound.
But, there are not that many of those guys in the game. Perhaps there enough of them to justify one LOOGY (someone who can truly do nothing else, aka Villone).
In other situations, the opposing manager will pinch-hit. How could you not? VIllone gave up a 124 OPS+ to opposing right-handed batters, and that does not include 23 walks (in 121 PAs!). A right-handed bench player, against a true LOOGY, hits like an all-star.
We have stocked our roster with LOOGYs. Ohman or Shouse would give us a good pitcher who is also left-handed. I think that without them, we could be in for (effectively) another year of Villone. It may be a specialist situation, but so is oral surgery. If you can, it’s worth paying for the best.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 26, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sign me up!!
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Jan 25, 2009 4:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sheets
I didn’t think it would be possible until I saw how low the market for Sheets has gone. If 2 years and 18 MM will sign him, how can you not do it?
The Saint Louis Cardinals should always start out the season aiming to win the NL Central and the World Series, if there is any reasonable way to contend. Not just to be reasonably good, but to be champions.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 25, 2009 10:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+100000
but you can tell from their language they dont see it that way.
when your goal is to be “competitive” something is wrong.
Competitive is what the Pirates and Reds aim for not us.
Competitive is a team that is afraid of failing, they dont go for it in trades, FA or in the draft. They go safe and steady.
Sometimes you have to take a chance.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 26, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ffs
imagine if Pujols goal was to be competitive with the other 1b’s ever year.
“yeah, mang, I wanna be competitive, maybe above average…”
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 26, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
something is seriously wrong with that goal. People don’t buy season tickets to see a competitive team. They want to see a winning team. It’s okay to “only be competitive,” but it’s not okay to shoot for that.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jan 26, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m in favor of sheets. Bump that Pineiro geek.
by Fuzzz Hardeman on Jan 26, 2009 12:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
pineiro who?
i suppressed all memory of having a pitcher by that name
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 26, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what?
not sure what you’re talking about…
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 27, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Sheets
This is probably pointless, but since it seems like I am doing something, I will add my name to the list of Cardinals fans who would love to see Ben Sheets on the roster.
I am tired of mediocre pitching and I am tired of beginning every season with the false hope that a big name pitcher will actually be ready to pitch.
Signing Ben Sheets carries risks but the rewards could be huge. I am okay with our bench being filled with Triple A wannabes. I am okay with Adam Kennedy at 2nd. I am also okay with the Motte/Perez closing adventure squad.
What I am not okay with is the lack of SP depth. Games are won and lost with pitching. Too much of the rotation can barely get through the fifth. If we are going to compete with the Cubs, we must improve our SP. Ben Sheets would be a serious upgrade.
So – what are we waiting for? Sign him.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby
by Cardinal Red State on Jan 27, 2009 2:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
here's another way of looking at it
SIGN BEN SHEETS in order to prevent other teams, i.e. our competition, from having him on their team
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 27, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
BEN SHEETS
cannot be a cub or brewer. Okay maybe a brewer.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 27, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
if the cubs get sheets
we might as well just start hoping for the wild card
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 28, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Sheets NOW !!!
If you can get an ace quality arm for less than 10 million a year, you should do it. Especially when your current ace is no cert to even pitch, let alone be the ace he was
If you can acquire an ace quality arm without surrendering the best of your farm system you should do it.
If you can show your fans – and your incomparable 1st baseman who’s contract runs out in under 2 years – that you really do want to win by signing the best available arm out there, then you should do it. Especialy when you’re way below your supposed budget for salary for the year.
Yes Sheets carries an injury risk but what pitcher doesnt. And as mentioned previously, he pitched almost 200 innings last year. And if he can be signed for a couple of years at 18 – 20 million, even in this economic climate, you should do it, even with that risk. I would say that the extra merch and ticket sales the signing would generate would pay a decent proportion of that cost anyway.
Imagine this rotation:
Carp, Sheets, Wainer, Lohse, Wellemeyer.
With all due respect to Looper, Pineiro, Boggs, et al,that’s got to look a lot more daunting to the opposition than the same list without Sheets.
Show us that commitment to winning Mo, Mr DeWitt; sign the guy now before he signs somewhere else, and demonstrate that you really do give a damn about the fans who pay your wages and boost your profits.
CardsFanUK !!!
The Gunners.... The Cardinals...
I Bleed Red & White !!!
by CardsFanUK on Jan 27, 2009 7:10 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I know I'm a little late...
to the party, but SIGN BEN SHEETS!
check out my blog: Redbird Ramblings
Brad Penny or Bust...scratch that, I'll take odalis perez now, that's how bad it's gotten.
waiting for the 2009 season to begin and colby rasmus to patrol centerfield!
by cards4life on Jan 27, 2009 11:26 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I say we "rec" every post that says SIGN BEN SHEETS...
or that mentions signing him or justifies it, so they are all green
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 28, 2009 12:58 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
+
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 28, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perspective...
Many of us thought last year’s offseason was disappointing and yet our team gave us one heck of a run. Many think this offseason has also been disappointing. If we get Sheets, nobody will care that we are rolling the dice on a 2B or trusting the scrap-o-matic LOOGY bin. If he gets injured, nobody will blame you for putting us in a terrible position. That is, until we conventiently forget our complaints (like we do from year to year) and conveniently lose our perspective…
by Big Rev on Jan 28, 2009 12:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
sign ben sheets!
he’s the best pitcher on the market and seems to be available at a reasonable price – why not try?!?!?!
by mattlo on Jan 28, 2009 2:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
BEN SHEETS!!!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 28, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
say it loud, say it proud
BEN MOTHERHUSHYOURMOUTH SHEETS
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 28, 2009 8:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This could be a good sign!
I know it’s from MLBtraderumors (which I normally don’t go to often) but I couldn’t resist.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/sheets-rangers.html
by CardFan@theLake on Feb 2, 2009 6:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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