Hot Stove 1/13 -
by thegodfather on Jan 13, 2009 10:58 PM EST
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Who knew Ben Sheets-related turrets
was contagious.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 13, 2009 11:24 PM EST reply actions
They are?
Sheets. Darn it! Sheets. :clinches fists: Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets can’t stop Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets Sheets
I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9
The worst part is
I even typed into Google to check it and the link for the medical dictionary has it as Turrets Syndrome – Definition but when you click it, the right spelling comes up.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 14, 2009 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
That's like a machine gun Syndrome, or something...
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
It certainly is contagious!
But about the turrets…If signing Ben Sheets means we get some turrets, can we use them to keep Cubs fans out of Busch? That way when I listen to the games on the radio and hear the crowd at Busch go crazy I’m not disappointed when I realize it’s just the several thousand Cub fans that showed up.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
it's better than a
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
sheets cold
it is nagging and makes your post split in half
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
I voted it was likely that nothing would happen until ST...
Judging by Mo’s track record, and also knowing that he studied under Jocketty, I think he’s an opportunist. Clearly it’s difficult for the fan base to be patient in light of apparent inaction. I feel the same way. Even so I’m sure he’s working the phones and trying to gauge the best and highest opportunity, be it trade or FA signing.
In light of the strange, strange free agent market I’m sure he’s weighing his options carefully. I hope. Uh, I mean, Ben Sheets!
I am very conflicted on this one
It makes sense to sign Sheets for many reasons. We know he is really good, we know he will probably be cheap enough and on a short term deal. We also know that he will cost us a draft pick to a divisional rival, and he will likely be injured for some time, whether it is for a couple of weeks or for a year the risk is definitely there.
I then though that we should trade for a starting pitcher right now. We would obviously have to trade either one of our well developed young 3rd baseman (Freese, Craig) or one of our outfielders. Preferably Ankiel because he will get us the most value and he is most likely going to be gone after next year without type a status, meaning we will only get a sandwich round pick. However, there are still options on the FA market that are nearly as good as Ankiel so we wouldn’t get great value for him now.
So what makes most sense is to wait until ST when all of the FA outfielders are gobbled up and try to package Ankiel and a 3rd baseman in a deal for a starting pitcher. If we don’t trade Ankiel during the offseason or ST, then we should go with him as the starting CF and then trade him midseason.
I couldn't decide between Looper, Wolf, and nothing
both seem about equally likely. I ended up voted for Wolf because I think the Cards prefer to target a lefty and he’s cheap.
Sheets
is a no-win situation for the Cards, I think. If his medical reports are not too horrible, then probably he will sign quickly and for big dollars now that Lowe is signed. That makes him improbable for us. If his shoulder does look bad enough that teams hesitate, I would rather the Cards not be the ones to bite.
Also, you either have to sign him for a long or a short deal. If it is a longer deal (2 years plus), you are putting a major chunk of money into a pitcher with a history of injuries. If it is a shorter deal (1 year), you just gave Milwaukee a 1st-round draft pick for a rental.
I’ve loved watching Ben Sheets pitch, but I don’t think his situation is feasible for us.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
wouldn't we get it back next year providing he's healthy
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 4:59 AM EST up reply actions
A big proviso...
who knows? I sure do like having Wallace in our system (our first rounder last year), and not having him waiting to club us to death up in Milwaukee. Sending the draft choice north just makes it a bigger gamble.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 14, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
I picked other
But I can’t specify what that ‘other’ entails. Mo’ tends to be quite close to the chest on what he does. I expect something, but not sure what.
I’m glad we didn’t bite that much for Lowe, but I have a feeling that Lowe’s contract just shaped Sheets out of our price range.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 14, 2009 4:02 AM EST reply actions
Afraid I agree
I doubt that Sheets will be in our price range after the Lowe deal. Not that he was even on the FO’s radar up to this point anyway…
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
i'm not sure
atlanta it seems was willing to overpay to make sure they got their guys. nobody else was offering the money or years that they gave to lowe and kawkami. i still think the rest of the league is bidding low.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
My vote was for
Nothing, move(s) will be made during ST. I think there’s about a 30-40% chance that this actually is the case, but IMO it’s the most likely of any one of the scenarios above.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
perhaps the Wii-ji board
will be the hot video game next Christmas…?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:27 AM EST up reply actions
Benson in the mix.....
per MLBTR
Kris Benson, who said his shoulder hasn’t felt this good since 2000. Benson had rotator cuff surgery almost two years ago. Benson says the Cardinals and Dodgers have expressed the most interest, with the D’Backs and Rangers also in the mix.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 14, 2009 10:48 AM EST reply actions
Ugh!
This is really starting to drive me crazy now. If we are going to sign a SP with injury risks and related problems, why wouldn’t we sign the BEST pitcher…Ben Sheets…in that category in order to make it more worthwhile?….Ben Sheets. I know if we do sign Sheets to an expensive contract and he is hurt, then it’s money down the drain, but hello! Mulder, Clement, and to a less extent Carpenter! We should be used to this by now. Benson would come cheaper because he isn’t as good a pitcher so it is less of a risk than signing Sheets, but if he is healthy and sucks it has been just as useless as if he were hurt. I just wish the front office had the balls to actually pull the trigger on a player that is worthwhile and we can get excited about…Ben Sheets!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Why not both?
Benson will probably only get a minor league deal with a spring invite anyway. Hopefully Sheets can stay healthy, and hopefully Benson can out-perform and replace Piniero (it wouldn’t take much).
"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe
by fatbellyjefferson on Jan 14, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Well yeah
I’d take both. I just don’t see Benson being too much of a factor if we were to sign him.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Will not Sheets be multi-year contract?
and the Cards don’t want that I think…… being that Lowe got 4 years, I would think Sheets wants the same deal and that is something the Cards don’t want to do, IMHO. I don’t want Benson….. Mulder, Clement do indeed come to mnd…… I’d rather they get Looper back for a whole lot less and for a year or two.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jan 14, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Multi-year?
Possibly. Maybe a two year deal but I can’t see a 4-year deal for Sheets. Teams seem to be really worried about his injury risk and that is probably the main reason why he hasn’t signed yet. After Sabathia and Burnett signed it was between him and Lowe for the best pitcher left in the FA market. Now Lowe is gone and Sheets is still hanging out there. The longer he goes without signing, the cheaper he’ll get. But, there is always the potential that a team decides to swoop in and gamble on him before we decide to make a move. Right now I would offer him a 2-year/$32 million deal, with an option for a third if he exceeds 300 innings for us in the first two seasons. If he declines, oh well, we’re in the exact same position we are already in. And maybe he continues to go through the offseason w/o getting picked up and that contract starts to look awfully nice to him. Either way, I just don’t want the FO to sit on their hands while there is a potential season altering (in a good way) pitcher like Sheets out there for us.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
2/$32
Seems steep when Lowe is getting $15M a year. I want Sheets, but that price is pushing it.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah maybe
$16 mil a year might be pushing it, but I’m gonna make him an offer he can’t refuse ;)
The Lowe contract was terrible IMO simply because of his age. Giving someone 4 years when he is 36 just isn’t wise to me, even if he is as effective a pitcher as Lowe. Offering Sheets that much money could be unwise, but for a different reason which is of course his injury risk. I know Lowe hasn’t really declined over the past few years, but that was going from 32 to 35, not 36 to 40. I’d like to think offering Sheets more money than Lowe would be okay because there is a better chance for Sheets to go the next few years w/o serious injury than there is for Lowe to not regress due to age.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Not so sure
I would rather pay Lowe 4/$60 than Sheets 2/$32. I’m not saying I’d like to pay Lowe that much, but if those are my options I’d have to choose Lowe. I don’t see Lowe dropping off a cliff in terms of performance in the next couple of years but I could see Sheets missing significant time. If Kyle Lohse is worth $10M a season then even if Lowe gets worse in the last 2 years of his contract he will still be worth more than that. By the way, Lowe is 35 and he’s started over 30 games a season for the last 7 years.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Ah....But Lohse isn't worth $10M(M)
We just jumped the gun on signing him. I wouldn’t want to give another pitcher a four year deal on top of the Lohse deal. If we signed Lowe to the 4/60 deal that means we are committing nearly $25 million a year to two starting pitchers for the next four years. That severely hinders us when we try to re-sign Pujols. We will have to cut corners and prevent adding quality to other areas because we have to A) Re-sign the Mang and B) Keep pumping out the cash for Lowe and Lohse
Signing Sheets to a 2-year deal takes that money off the books sooner in order to afford Albert. IMO, it’s a wash between Lowe’s age and Sheets’ injury history. Lowe could have a career ending injury tomorrow same as Sheets. I do agree Lowe probably won’t regress too much as he ages, and that’s because he only began starting when he was 29 so he is hitting his peak starting years later in his career. But, there is also a chance that Sheets doesn’t suffer any more severe injuries the rest of his career. Both are great pitchers and are worth the gamble. Also, a million dollars is alot of money to you and me, but look at this from the baseball world. 2-years/$32M=$16M a year. 4-years/$60M=$15M a year. That isn’t too much difference in salary and Lowe get’s the longer contract so it is still the better deal between the two.
It just seems to me like the Braves wanted to make sure no one else got him, so they tossed him a long deal with bigger money than anyone else was realistically willing to give him. It’s clear they are making a push by signing Kawakami and Lowe. They are going to focus on their rotation as the strongpoint this season since their lineup is fairly thin (unless of course they sign Abreu, Dunn, etc.)
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
This discussion will go nowhere, but here I am....
If we signed Lowe to the 4/60 deal that means we are committing nearly $25 million a year to two starting pitchers for the next four years
This is why we shouldn’t have given Lohse that deal. We’d have to pay somebody to fill the rotation slot that Ben Sheets would leave after two years anyway.
Lowe could have a career ending injury tomorrow same as Sheets.
This is true, but I’ll bet you one billion (Dr. Evil voice) internet dollars that Sheets misses a start before Lowe does.
That said. BEN SHEETS!!!!
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well you must say Sheets
‘cause Lowe has already signed with the Braves :) And I agree that we shouldn’t have given Lohse that deal, but the fact is we did. I would think two years from now any of Garcia, Boggs, Todd, plus K-Mac will be ready to take the spot of Sheets.
Waino
Carp
Lohse
K-Mac
Garcia
There is also a chance we sign another FA pitcher in 2010 or trade for someone by 2011.
And I’ll take you on that bet! And what the hell! I’ll raise you a pegacorn!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Damn! You drive a hard bargain
The deal’s on, unless of course we sign Sheets. I don’t want to root for him to miss a start if we sign him.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
how about 9Y/72M garuanteed
And another $1M per 10 innings pitched over 120?
No one else will give him that much garuanteed money, it’s $8M per year so if he completely falls apart he won’t be a boat anchor and he has a chance to be paid like an ace if he is one. And if he pitches well for a year or two, he’ll have massive trade value.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Not to mention
he is guaranteed high income over nearly a decade during these tough economic times!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking something like that
What about a Lohse-like deal? 4/$40 with an additional $1M for each 10 IP over 130. I bet he’d take it. If he pitched 180 innings a year that would get him $15M a year.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
guaranteed money for Sheets
>>No one else will give him that much garuanteed money
“garuanteed” … must be the Cajun spelling of the word, Justin Wilson. Anyway, Sheets surely believes he will get at least $24 mill. He turned arb which somebody reported he was offered $15 mill by Milw. for 1 year to settle his arb rights. The offer makes sense if he made $11 mill last season. I personally think Sheets will get $24 mill guaranteed and, further, that he is where his market is at. We’ll see how it plays out.
Please, not another rehab pitcher!
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 14, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I was tempted to vote other for this very reason.
I don’t think we’ll sign Sheets, Wolf, Looper, or Garland. We’re going to pick some random pitcher that all of us forgot was even a free agent. Just wait, you’ll wake up and see Tony Armas Jr. slated as our number 5 guy.
On with the (good) youth movement!
Jennings?
hes like a tickle me Elmo or a cabbage patch kid.
he was the shit a couple of years ago but effing worthless now
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:30 AM EST up reply actions
eh...
someone has to fill the Mulder/Clement role on this team…
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:27 AM EST up reply actions
Kris Benson
We’re supposedly in the top two for him. We’ll probably get this done since I don’t want him, and rumor I want to get done doesn’t get done.
I think this is as good as anything
to predict who the Cards will acquire.
The amount of fear produced in the fanbase is a direct relation to the chances we get them
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:31 AM EST up reply actions
Sign Ben Sheets.
In ancient times, Cato the Elder was known for ending every speech he gave in the Roman Senate with the phrase: “Delenda Est Carthago” or “Carthage must be destroyed.”
From now until he signs elsewhere, I will be ending all of my posts with the following:
Sign Ben Sheets.
D.GOOCH
Sign Ben Sheets.
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on Jan 14, 2009 3:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I thought you were going to say
Delenda Est Sheetso.
Which I’d be fine with if he doesn’t sign with us. ;-)
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I like your thinking
Maybe if enough of Cardinal Nation makes this their mantra, it will actually happen. I’m making it my honorary sig until the Mets or someone else inevitably signs him.
I mean, Rome actually DID end up destroying Carthage. If it worked for Cato . . .
Sign Ben Sheets!
I think it should have been unanimous on the poll
If the FO would have seen that all of Cardinal Nation VEB (I hate Nations) was in favor of this signing, I think they would have seen the error of their ways (also not a big fan of cliches, but what the hell , this is worth it!)
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Ah, but the question was
“what WILL the front office do prior to spring training?” What the should do and what they will do are entirely different. Perhaps the next one of these open threads should have the “What should they do?” question asked. I bet there’d be much more consensus.
I stand by my comment
If we would have done that, MO would have seen it and signed Sheets, thus WILL is what I read.
Not convinced? Yeah, circular reasoning…it sucks. I am not even sure I convinced myself, but they really need to just sign Sheets already.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Launder Sheets Through the Yankees
Forgive the pun, but it was too fun to pass up. Get the Yankees to sign Sheets and take the draft hit. Trade them a minor leaguer of our choice (and theirs) in compensation.
-We get Sheets.
-Yankees gets a minor leaguer,
-Sheets gets to work
-Brewers get a Yankee 4th Round Pick
are they allowed to sign anymore type As?
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
yup
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/free-agent-quot.html
I think this means that the Yanks could theoretically sign 5 or 6 more type A’s because they lost 2 FA.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 14, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
except you can't trade
a player you just signed.
without his permission.
This would be tampering, but it could be a fun thing to talk about if Mo got Cashman drunk at the hotel bar at the next GM meetings…
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
*cough cough* Sheets *cough*
Sheets
I voted for trade for SP because it makes the most sense… I’d like them to sign Sheets however, since I have no idea who they could trade OF glut for
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 3:51 PM EST reply actions
I voted for trading as well
It’s unlikely that it will happen though. As was said before, this is probably the worst year I have ever seen where FA’s arent getting signed at this rate.
I think that Ankiel or someone from the outfield will be traded eventually. Most likely some team in mid season who is panicking and trying to get into the playoffs. It worked for the brewers last year. I have no doubt that there will be a few teams interested in Ankiel either to improve their playoff run chances or just getting into the playoffs period.
Sign Ben Sheets
you're probably right
it will be excruciating to see all these outfielders try and get playing time; or maybe just highly entertaining if the right ones get the playing time
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see
Luddy/Raz/Ank starting and Mather/BartonorSkip coming off the bench. Then we deal Ank to an AL contender at somepoint for SP and Mather starts and has a Ludwick-type season.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
I will beat the dead horse of trade skip
every time I hear the dead horse of trade ank beaten… that is my vow
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Trade Luddy!
That horse isn’t quite dead yet, so I’ll start beating it some more ;)
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Saddly I almost think the best case for us long term...
is to semi tank this season and be forced to trade an OF and Glaus at the deadline for a mint
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:34 AM EST up reply actions
Mo if you are reading through VEB today
SIGN BEN SHEETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SIGN HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT WOULD BE A VERY GOOD MOVE FOR THE TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!
BOO JON GARLAND!!!!!!!!!
HOORAY BEN SHEETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just remember this before you go to bed tonite. Please.
(I also hope no one else signs him before you do go to bed tonite)
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
you can do it.
you can do it all night long.
no need for sleep
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
y'know
that’s really not a bad idea
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
is it possible
to start an online petition (w/ stats and projections included) to sign Sheets, and then send it to the FO?
perhaps that would let them know
haha
actually, I just did that. like I think I just got done with it as you posted. Hopefully it actually works.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/1/14/723178/call-to-mo-the-official-si
On with the (good) youth movement!
also...
I mean ALSO
MO REMEMBER WOLF IS JUST AS INJURY PLAGUED AS SHEETS EVER WAS BUT ISNT HALF THE PITCHER.
SIGN SHEETS
BOO MARGINAL GAIN ROTATION FILLERS (LOOPER, WOLF, GARLAND)
IMPROVE THE TEAM NOT JUST TREAD WATER.
sorry, i cant keep the awful caps up
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:36 AM EST up reply actions
I still think we should trade for a cost controlled starter with some potential
I’m thinking a guy like Rich Hill, who is out of options with the Cubs. He was a very good pitcher before struggling in the majors and in AAA this year. The Cubs don’t have room for him on there roster, so they would probably have to trade him. He is 28, but would still be cost controlled for a couple more years and he really wouldn’t take that much to get because of his struggles last year.
Not a bad idea
Considering how bad Fukudome was last year, yet he somehow ends up in the All-star game….
it was probably
a possibility before the milton bradley signing but not now.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
apparently they do
the signed the guch…
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
I like that idea
I think Rich Hill has wicked stuff, may thrive under different coaching staff
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'd love
to give Duncan a shot at “fixing” Rich Hill’s control. That’s actually a great example of a young starter with some upside.
Does anyone else feel like lefthanded starters tend to have shorter success tracks in the majors than righthanded ones?
but in what universe
would the Cubs make a trade with the Cardinals? I think the name Brock still lingers
has there been a Cards-cubs trade
since the Zeile-Morgan one in ’95?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
man,
how can that guy be 28?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:37 AM EST up reply actions
Because he's a AAAA pitcher
Entered the minors in 2002 at age 22 and has spent parts of 4 seasons in the majors (starting in 2005).
Don’t let cubbie fans fool you into thinking this guy is a prospect.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Jan 17, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone interested in fleecing the yanks?
I know there has been a lot of talk here, there, and everywhere about Hughes and Kennedy, but I am interested to know if you guys have any interest in Humberto Sanchez? He is 25, 6’6" and 230 lbs. He spent most of last year coming back from Tommy John, and could use a little more time in the minors. I have a feeling we could get him in a minor trade with the yanks, and he quite possibly could end up being lightning in a bottle at some point this season. The yanks don’t have a need for him now, and we’d have someone to beat the stuffing out of Big Z next year when the benches clear against the cubbies.
he prefers the whopper over the big mac. he’s hoping to try an in n out burger this weekend.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Jan 14, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
LOL
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
anybody try the new Angry Whopper?
I never go to BK, but I love me some jalepeno burgers, and it looks delicious on tv.
I had one yesterday
Delicious—make it a double!
I loved the Whopper virgins parody on the recent Neil Patrick Harris SNL episode.
Check for it on NBC.com, Hulu, and YouTube. It’s short.
That whole episode was pretty good.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
so the majority actually thinks that the front office will sign Ben Sheets?
that sort of surprising, will be more surprised if those who voted that didn’t read it wrong
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 6:41 PM EST reply actions
I tried my best
to make the poll question clear but it looks like I failed…
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 14, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
either that or a lot of people know something we don't know
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not all that original, but
Since the Braves have now signed a surplus of starting pitching, do you think it is possible the Cards could trade an outfielder to get a starter?
I know that the outfielder for reliever and outfielder for infielder situations have been rumored and discussed, but this is a slightly different situation.
As a secondary point, assuming no outfielder is dealt before the season starts, how about the odds of an of for sp swap with the Braves once Tim Hudson comes back (assuming he comes back) in midseason?
Braves
are looking like best trade partners… haven’t heard any better suggestions yet anyway.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Outfielder for starter is definitely a good idea
We have discussed doing that a lot, but the FA market for outfielders is too flooded to get fair value. We probably wouldn’t be able to get a quality starter for Rick Ankiel or even Ryan Ludwick. Lets look at some teams that have been linked to us about an OF for SP swap.
The Braves still have a lot of question marks in there rotation. Hudson is oft injured, Lowe is too old, Jurrjens is too young, Campillo is unproven and Vasquez always underachieves. So the Braves probably wouldn’t want to trade a good starter for and OF when they could get a guy like Dunn or Abreu without giving up anything but money.
The Rays because they can’t afford the FA outfielders and they have an excess in SP. However, they signed Kapler and Burrell and traded a starter for Joyce so they don’t have any OF needs any more.
The Yanks might be a good fight for a Kennedy for Ankiel swap because they don’t want to spend anymore money on FA, however they are looking to dump an outfielder, not add one.
The Red Sox want to boost there offense and they are also looking for a catcher. Like the Rays they have an excess of good starting pitching, but are seemingly unwilling to trade Bowden or Buchholz. If we traded Anderson and Ankiel we might be able to pry one of those young starters away.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 14, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with most of those statements
except this:
Lowe is too old, Jurrjens is too young
Lowe is Mr. Consistency and Jurrjens has ace potential. Kawakami should do OK, Hudson will come halfway through the season to bolster up the rotation if Vasquez and Campillo struggle.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 14, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Lowe was
down right nasty in their playoff push last yr..ya manny was big but so was he
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
yeah
very bad timing to have an OF glut
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 14, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yankees and Braves
The Yankees might still want to pick up a center fielder. I think there should be a chance Ankiel will be attractive to them.
If we get Kennedy from them, though, there is danger of another Anthony Reyes fiasco. Kennedy and Reyes are both out of USC, and have similar mechanics.
The Braves need offense. They have just spent a ton on starting pitching. We’ll see where Dunn and Abreu go. If not there, maybe. But, I seem to recall they want a right-handed bat.
Seemingly there is more chance of a ST trade than of signing anyone. I think I must have been in daipers when the Cards last outbid someone for a free agent.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 18, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
I think they only sign another starter if....
it becomes obvious that Carpenter can’t go in ST.
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
I agree
I think that the only starter worth signing now is Sheets, because he is the only ace-type pitcher left on the market. If we fail to sign Sheets, than we shouldn’t overpay for a guy like Garland because there are many starters of his caliber left on the market (Wolf, Perez, Looper). If we wait until ST than we could probably get a guy of Garland’s ability for next to nothing or we could trade an OF for a pitcher then. So for me it’s Ben Sheets or no one.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 14, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
right
we don’t just need a pitcher, we need a really good one to really compete. signing garland etc won’t really make us more competitive than we were last year, which won’t get us in the playoffs in 09..
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
well, there's pettitte.
he’s been a roughly 5-6 win pitcher the last 2 years according to fangraphs, more valuable than sheets, peavy, lowe, etc (I know, i was shocked by that too).
Won’t cost a pick, either. just our pride, and a big pile of money.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
It would be nice to have a lefty
But Pettite isn’t an ace. If we have to pay ace money for someone, I would rather it be Sheets.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 15, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
yeah i have no idea why he hates the STL, but he does
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
+1
has there even been an offseason where it seemed like no one wanted to play for us?
Pettite, Johnson, Furcal (well he wanted to play for LA, and even acted like a jerk to get it done)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:43 AM EST up reply actions
There must be an error in the calcs.
Pettite has a been a durable league average pitcher over the last 2 seasons. He is really just Garland from the left side.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 17, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
hmmmm
they tweaked something, because when I posted that he was a 5-6 win pitcher (with a value over $20M/year the last 2 years) and now he’s a 4-5 win pitcher with a value ~$16M. Hilarious.
Ah, here it is.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
no carpenter will be fully healthy all year
mark my words
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
we're all going to hold you to this
if he doesn’t, if’s all on you
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I'll just go incognito if i'm wrong
think they’ll recognize me
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
They need to put this picture on one of those inflatable punching bags
that you punch and they bounce right back up. It would be a great stress reliever.
and i never defined healthy
it could mean he doesn’t get the flu this year
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 14, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
What do we get if
you’re wrong?
1000 VEB dollars each
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 15, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Would it be too much to pray for a Piniero injury?
again
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:41 AM EST up reply actions
I know it's been discussed
But with the logjam at 3B, why not give Craig a shot at second? He played SS in college and he’s not getting anywhere fast as a 3B or outfielder with the Cardinals, so why not? He could start the season in Memphis or Springfield and we could just see how it works out. The worst thing that could happen is it doesn’t work and he goes back to third.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
I absolutely advocate that idea
at least try to make the conversion with him, it would solve many problems. he’s good… he’s not as big as Freese and Wallace either, right?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 15, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
6'2" 190
Acceptable dimensions for a 2B. The whole question is how quick and nibble are his feet? Could he learn to make the pivot? I’d much rather see the Cards try Craig at 2B than the outfield which they have hinted they will try this year to help alleviate the crush of talent at 3B.
if that works out, we could field an infield made entirely out of former 3b prospects in 2010.
3b – freese
ss – barden
2b – craig
1b – wallace
obviously, not likely to happen, given that at least one of those spots is taken, but actually, that would be a hell of an infield.
the one spot
that is taken is occupied by a former 3B prospect
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 16, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
I had chest pains when I read tom’s post, but you brought me back.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
This is scary
Now Howard is back for another round. And the first big mystery is: What salary will he file for? We’ve heard estimates ranging from $15 million to $17 million — for a player with three-plus seasons in the big leagues. Can you spell “cha-ching”?
If he wins his case he will be making more than MVPujols I can’t imagine what kind of salary it will take to keep him in the BoB.
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
who knows how much he will cost
especially if we dont look competative…
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:45 AM EST up reply actions
I just threw up.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 15, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At this point, I would be happy to get Garland.
Rather than someone who will sign as reclamation project.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 15, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
I would prefer the reclamation project
at least those sometimes have the chance of some serious upside.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
+1
Boggs/Todd=Garland
but with upside and $free
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 15, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
not necessarily
the value of garland lies in his ability to get us 200 innings. i don’t think todd or boggs get us that many. maybe combined. i just don’t see the harm in signing garland to a one year deal worth 4-6 mil. who knows what dunc could do for him.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
whats it matter?
We basically had Garland last year, but he was called Looper…
except Looper did better than Garland last year, albeit in a cruddy year for Garland
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:47 AM EST up reply actions
i mean whats the point in bringing in Garland/
Might as well roll with a farm guy and pray he becomes awesome or we suck and get a pick.
Whats the point of having a Garland make us mediocre, because they arnt going to put us over the top
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:48 AM EST up reply actions
he's going to be better than pinero
and he pitched 200 innings. where else are we getting the innings from? welle isn’t going to pitch them. carp isn’t going to pitch them. pinero isn’t going to. lohse is the only one that might pitch 200.
you would have thought we learned our lesson last year about not having innings eaters on the team.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
duncan
does no one else think that duncan could have a good effect on garland?
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
my problem is
Garland already is what Duncan does…
Whats there to fix? He is already doing what Dunc advises and he doesnt have control problems ect
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
preparation
the thing about duncan that really makes the difference is his preparation of pitchers. maybe he would help garland attack a hitter better and therefore but more effective. duncan’s success doesn’t just come from pitching down in the zone.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Pitchers under DD
Usually lower their walk rate. Look at pitchers like Dave Stewart, Bob Welch, Woody Williams, Dennis Eckersley, Kyle Lohse, and Todd Wellemeyer. This doesn’t always work for everyone (see: Marquis, Jason and Wells, Kip), but there is a trend for pitchers under DD to develop better control and force the opposition to put the ball in play where the defense is set up to field it.
Garland has excellent control, but his K/BB have never been great. Decrease his walk rate 20-30 BB a year and he becomes a lot better pitcher. He probably won’t strike out more guys, but he’ll get a ton of ground balls
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
We should seriously just sign Looper
Out of the guys left, aside from Sheets who we aren’t going to sign, Looper seems like the best fit on this team.
Ben sheets goes to the Nationals
they throw their Tex money at him..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
Of the available (non-sign-someone-whose-arm-is-only-half-attached) options,
2008 ERA+ (from Baseball Reference)
Looper 102
Pettite 98
Wolf 93
Garland 91
Sheets 139…oh well…..
McClellan 105
Pinero 83
Signing Looper makes some sense. Maybe letting McClellan compete for the fifth starting spot does too.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
He might be better for a little while but once the season wears on he'll start getting worse.
Also, it significantly weakens the BP.
Why not just fork over a small amount of money to bring Looper back, he had a little trouble lasting all season the first year he made the conversion but he’s in full on starter mode now.
It will put even more pressure on perez and motte
if kmac is out of the pen and tlr is allready scared of putting too much pressure on them as is. However I really like kmac slotted in at #5. But do we really want joel and PK being the big inning eaters in the pen.
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Jan 15, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
I think McClellan in the rotation is only good if
Looper (or another reasonable starter is signed). That way, you are only asking McClellan to be better than Pinero was as a starter.
Pinero had an 83 OPS+ against in the first inning last year. Not bad at all.
If Looper (or Wolf, etc.) is signed, I doubt PK will be on the team. Franklin, Pinero, Motte, Kinney, Perez on the right handed side. PK would be in Memphis, unless he can beat Motte, Kinney or Perez out.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 15, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
I guess offering him arb....
is a million dollar insurance policy?
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Jan 16, 2009 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
they could always bring back Springer
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:50 AM EST up reply actions
Instead of spending...
the 6 million that it will take to get Garland, then why not move K-Mac to the pen and re-sign Springer to work in the bullpen. He’s always been touted as a great leader in the pen, and we know he is still capable (as of last year).
I know K-mac won’t be able to throw 200 innings, but if you have a rotation of Waino, Welle, Lohse, a healthy Carpenter, Pineiro could make some spot starts for K-Mac to give him some extra rest. If we don’t have a healthy Carpenter, then a see what Boggs/Todd is capable of this year with some spot starts.
cubs get worse again...
… they sign Taguchi. if he makes the team out of ST, it basically is guaranteed that they’re gonna outright release Pie.
what the hell are they smoking over there? good thing for them they get to have a payroll at least 50% greater than the BoB.
Here's your problem, Kosuke-san
You haven’t hit any dramatic and unlikely post-season homeruns which help get your team to the world series. I told Yadier Molina the same thing and it worked out awesome.
now I REALLY want to win.
this brought a fire back into a rivalry that was starting to dwindle for me with the offseason.
First last year with Edmonds, then Miles, now TAGUCHI!? It’s like this team is purely after going at our gut. These guys are on their last legs (minus Miles), and they are hardly going to be an upgrade over the rest of the market out there. Are they doing this purely for the sake of being bastards? I think yes.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jan 16, 2009 1:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I need to find a way to paraphrase that paragraph
to use as a sig. All I really need to do is use the last two sentences, but it needs to be kept in the proper context.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
haha, thanks.
you could replace the “they” with “Cubs” in the last sentence and take out the “(minus Miles).” That might be all you need to do. I wish you luck.
On with the (good) youth movement!
geez,
they are becoming the new Blue Jays
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:51 AM EST up reply actions
This stings
Edmonds, Miles, So… My gall is heartbroken. Her So and Miles jersey shirts are all she’s got, too. Tragic.
Screw you, Aaron Miles. "Hope you tear your ACL, jackass!!" - Carl
another cubbie
dumpster dive. get out of out trash, vagrants!
I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9
they are as bad as the freaking Red Sox
FFS you have enormous payrolls and now you are taking our dumpster players too! ;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:54 AM EST up reply actions
poop
Michael Young is moving to 3rd
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
damn insomnia
Jeff Luhnow talked on the STL radio yesterday afternoon. sure it was with Bernie & Strauss, but it’s still worth a listen. it’s a long one too. so grab a snack & a drink or 5 & enjoy.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Great stuff
Much appreciated.
One comment Luhnow made caught my ear. In talking about passing on Porcello he mentioned that a 5-6 year pay off for a high school pitcher was too long to be worth that kind of an investment. I am not sure I understand that logic, but I guess it means we shouldn’t hold our breath for any future over slot signings of 1st round HS pitchers.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
I still dont under stand the Bernie Strauss hatred around here
and I dont understand who most think are better (especially locally)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:55 AM EST up reply actions
bernie, at least
misrepresents the facts to make players and managers look bad. He manipulates facts to prove points he’s decided are true (IE, dewitt is cheap, dewitt is going to sell the team, duncan hates reyes, mo is in over his head, etc) without having done the due diligence to ensure he is, in fact, correct.
In short, he’s a muckracker with minimal intellectual integrity and a lot of ego. He was actually decent in the past, and every now and then he has something interesting to say, and we’re kind of counting on him (and others at the PD) for information about our team, but he’s gone way off the deep end this off season. And his radio show is brutal to listen to; he’s definitely a writer, not a talker.
Strauss is just an egomaniac who is usually wrong.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
Please.
You make Bernie sound like Jay Mariotti and he’s not even close.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
i would rather have mariotti
mariotti at least makes a good villan. he’s up front about having unpopular ideas. bernie is the guy that always bends (or breaks) the truth to get a following. he is the worst kind of used car salesman (no offense to any used car salesmen here on the site).
the only writer i can stand to read from the post dispatch is goold and i think most would agree with that.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Bernie
I wrote this a few weeks ago, and I still believe that it’s so:
Bernie isn’t the guy who objectively criticizes the team. He’s the guy who criticizes them to show something about himself. It’s like he’s running around with a big damn banner that says “Look at me! I don’t take Don Tony’s shit! The Cardinals are trying to hose you! The big bad corporate villains vs. the common man!!! Look at me!!!” It’s not about journalism, it’s about getting people to read your column and call into your shitty show. I can’t stand it personally. He and Burwell are worse than Gordo, who’s just a bad writer…those guys are respectable writers who have an agenda. Goold is awesome but that’s just about it over in PD world. Anyone up for kidnapping Joe Posnansky from KC?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 17, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
totally agree.
This is my perception as well, for the most part. Up to and including worshipping goold and kidnapping poz.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I would even be willing
to trade Rasmus for Poz. That tells you how disgusted I am with the columnists over at the P-D.
Geez, I should have used that for a fanpost
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
& the commish
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 17, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
no, bernie is better than mariotti
but he is still basically trying to turn the PD into a tabloid, and I’m not going to ignore it when I see it. He’s doing the team and the fans a huge disservice.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I guess I dont understand
how he is trying to turn the PD into a tabloid?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Actually,
Bernie is doing his job. He isn’t a sports reporter. He basically writes op-ed pieces. We are all free to (dis)like him. But it’s not like he’s claiming the Cardinals are signing an extraterrestrial to pitch.
Thank you
Same thing happened here in Chicago with Mariotti. I think sometimes people confuse “columnist” with “reporter”. It’s Bernie’s job to have an opinion whether he really believes it or not.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
that's BS.
And if it isn’t, then there’s no reason for us not to despise him. A man who writes untrue things in order to sell something is not someone I’d go out of my way to defend. Especially if he doesn’t even believe what he is saying.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
It's his job to take a stance on something
He may agree with it or not but he’s to write an opinion.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
i disagree
its his job to sell papers. he does that by getting people riled up. to me bernie is the exact equivalent of skip bayless.
i’m fine with him having an opinion but when that opinion is obviously off base and comes with an agenda i have a problem with it.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Taking a stance is one thing...
…Shooting BS out of your ass for the purpose of getting readers, callers, and just generally riling people up is quite another. The man isn’t taking a stance because he honestly feels that way. He just shoots off his drivel and basically carries a figurative banner around saying “LOOK AT ME, I’M NOT TAKING THE TEAM’S SHIT AND I’M HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE!” Two completely different things…the first is his job, the second is the reason newspapers are dying.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 18, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
"the second is the reason newspapers are dying."
That may be true, but apparently it’s what the paper wants. If they didn’t, he’d either change or they’d get rid of him.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I just dont see
what he says that inflamatory at all?
If anything he is pretty fair, and when people go off the deep end criticizing he tries to reel them in.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 18, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
"the second is the reason newspapers are dying"
Bad columnists are NOT why newspapers are dying. It has a little more to do w/ this here intraweb and the effect it has on advertising and readership.
Sign Ben Sheets!
They're connected
The internet tends to attract younger readers, while the ones older than me (39) stick with newspapers…however, and this is particularly the case with the P-D, when the newspapers aren’t good, people won’t read them. They’re really two seperate forms of expression, and both have their individual uses. If the newspapers are bad, then people will rely completely on the blogosphere and cnn.com (or other similar sites) for all of their news, instead of a piece of it.
Think about it…do you consider VEB, Deadspin, Beyond the Box Score, etc. to be anything like a newspaper? Sure, they both provide news and opinion…but the newspaper is based completely on reporting and research, while blogs aren’t always and often are not. Ideally the newspaper is the thoroughly objective source of local and national news, while the blog is where you go for opinion, analysis, and to some extend full openness. It doesn’t always work that way, esp. since the P-D is trying very very hard to provide less and less news coverage and more and more volume.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 18, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
While I will concede many of your points
the statement that newspapers are dying because of dumbass columnists like Bernie is just not true. That is a complete oversimplification of the new times of print journalism. Great newspapers are going down like well-paid hookers all over the country, and you can’t tell me that a misguided columnist is to blame.
Newspapers rely on revenue from advertising, and in order to sell ads, you need a readership. Many people (including myself) just don’t subscribe to newspapers nowadays. I would rather read Goold and Posnanski on my laptop every morning; it’s much easier and creates less waste. I’m in my mid-twenties and I don’t have a single friend that subscribes to newspapers.
So, sorry to rant, and I agree that a bad columnist can be a reaction of declining readership, but it is not a root cause. (I majored in journalism as an undergrad, so it kind of hit a nerve)
Sign Ben Sheets!
Perhaps I should rephrase
While I’ll concede that newspapers lose readership to the WWW, they lose even more from my generation and older by doing a poor job. A misguided columnist like Miklasz is a part of an overall decline. I think that makes my point a bit clearer.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 19, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
it does make your point clearer
but i just disagree with you on the cause/effect issue. no worries, to each his own.
Sign Ben Sheets!
don't tell anyone blues,
but i dont hate them. Bernie is just plane stupid sometimes, but he also has his good moments. joe being the teams beat reporter probably follows the team closer than anyone & has a lot of good (and bad) insider info that’s great to read during the season.
i’ve also listened to them on the radio the past couple weeks & i think they’ve done a really good job.
but please don’t tell anyone blues, i don’t want to lose any of my VEB street cred
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Omar Visquel
I’m thinking he might be right for our utility infield spot. 1 year for 1 million dollars would probably get him and he could actually be really valuable. If you look at his last full season in 07, he was eerily close to Izturis this year. Visquel had a .621 OPS with 14 steals, Cesar had a .628 OPS with 24 steals. Visquel actually had more power than Cesar with a .07 ISO to Cesar’s pathetic .046 ISO this year. Overall Visquel was worth -27.2 runs offensively (yuck) but he had a ridiculous +19.9 Runs defensively. That made him worth 1.8 WAR. His has only played 1 inning at second in his career, but I’m sure he could do well there this year. If you give him around a .250 wOBA (hah), but you could probably expect his defense to be around a 15 UZR rating and a 5 run positional bump due to his time at second, He would be worth about 1 WAR, which would be pretty good for a 42 year old MIF.
didn't he retire?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
What the hell is this?
Why won’t Mo bring back Springer. All La Russa does is bitch about not having a proven closer, but he doesn’t want to bring back one of the best relievers in the game over the last two seasons when he has offered to take a pay cut. That will look even more stupid when the Cubs sign him, and we end up moving McClellan to the rotation. Then our bullpen will suck again.
Budget issues
Seems like the plan was to cut ties when arbitration wasn’t offered. Still need to find a starter so have to save money somewhere.
Franklin, Thompson, McClellan, Kinney, Motte, and Perez compete for five RHP spots with Miller, Ring and Miller for two LHP spots.
2008 Bullpen – Izzy, Franklin, Springer, McClellan, Thompson, Flores and Villone (with cameo’s by Reyes & Jiminez)
can wonderbrad please not be in it?
just saying, I think that if we release brad, move McClellan to the rotation and sign springer, we would be much better off
by vivaelpujols on Jan 16, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
what's so bad about Thompson?
he’s not that bad, better than Pineiro…
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 17, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Wonderbrad is only better than Piniero
only in that he is younger and cheaper. Neither are very good.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
PK can be really good if his sinker is working
if not, he’s likely to pull a hammy kicking some ARF puppies
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
For the sake of puppies everywhere
he needs to get it working a lot more often.
PK as a starter: K/9=3.62, BB/9=2.75, WHIP=1.49
JP as a starter: K/9=4.90, BB/9=2.12, WHIP=1.46
And that is using PK’s career numbers in 128 IP compared to JP’s lousy 148.7 innings in 2008.
I am all for using the younger, cheaper guy but it is mostly wishful thinking that Thompson would be any better as a starter than JP.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Piniero probably has some upside
He was a pretty damn good pitcher for a couple of years in Seatle and he was good in 07 in a brief stretch. Piniero will probably have a pretty good year, but we should still get an ace type pitcher. BEN SHeets
by vivaelpujols on Jan 18, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see a broader scope of stats
but I get your point
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 18, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Stats
ERA+ (from Baseball Reference) / xFIP (from The Hardball Times)
Pinero:
2002 131 / Not Available
2003 114 / Not Available
2004 97 / 4.48
2005 75 / 4.49
2006 70 / 4.92
2007 104 (94 in BOS, 111 in StL) / 5.00 (BOS) and 4.30 (StL)
2008 83 / 4.43
Thompson:
2005 144 / 4.11
2006 133 / 4.48
2007 93 / 5.34
2008 83 / 4.65
Looper:
2004 158 / 3.27
2005 104 / 4.85
2006 125 / 4.33
2007 89 / 4.93
2008 102 / 4.59
For upside, I don’t see much to choose between Pinero and Thompson. Both have been very good in the past, and both have gotten shelled more recently. But I think that for upside, and for consistency, you can argue that Looper beats them both. He has been better than either and has done it both more often and more recently.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 18, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
however, his sinker has lost a lot of its bite ever since the shoulder issues. I miss it soooooo bad, it used to be down right nasty, now it’s “ok”
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Holy cow :(
“I loved the opportunity to play for the Cardinals and the fans,” said Springer. “I did everything I can to come back. I told them I’d take a pay cut, play for incentives. And it just never went anywhere… They don’t have any interest in bringing me back.”
How can we not sign the guy
Send McClellan to the rotation and put Springer in the bullpen. A pay cut and he’s not good enough for us?!?
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 17, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
One side of the story
Who knows what the truth is. I suspect it isn’t that one-sided. Often, when someone says he wants to play for incentives, he’s trying to participate in the upside if he performs well. Maybe big Russ said I’ll play for $1.5 base and $3 million bonus if I hit certain targets.
Nevertheless, for the second year in a row we’ve let guys go who would have been upside for the money. First Percival and now Springer.
Just win
well, we were wrong about percival
they let him go at the right time.
It’ll be interesting to see how it works out with springer. I’m on the “why the heck didn’t we sign him” wagon, now, but they may turn out to be right (again)…
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
the only reason I can see this making sense
is if they plan to spend every penny on someone else or they are fed up with “babying” him in the pen
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:56 AM EST up reply actions
I think they're worried about keeping their options open
in case Carpenter ain’t ready
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 17, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't call it babying
he was a work horse for a solid stretch there, and he is up there in age.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
compare him to kmac for example.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I am curious
I probably missed any discussion, but what about signing O. Perez
Odalis Perez…that is :D
If we don’t get Sheets, the guy would be really cheap, and I’m sure he could be better than Pineiro.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=3927
Reclamation project, Dave Duncan specialty? The next Lohse?
I’ll take him for free if he just pitches BP to Pujols before games, but I think that’s it.
by astrostl on Jan 17, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Albert Pujols vs. Odalis Perez
23 at bats
14 hits
3 doubles
5 homers
15 rbi’s
9 walks
1 strikeout
.609/.719/1.391/2.110
by vivaelpujols on Jan 17, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I bet that strikeout made him tingle inside
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 18, 2009 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
it was a BS call by the home plate umpire, IIRC
Actually, I don’t RC anything about that particular K, but it seems like a safe guess ;)
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I think he is worth more to us
Just letting him pitch to Pujols once in a while
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 17, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
looks like Mo read thegodfather's question and decided to answer it.
Nothing till ST Here.
Referring to Carp, “If he can go, we have a good rotation,” Mozeliak said. “If he can’t, we’ll use spring to address it.”
Good news reported for carp and albert’s recoveries.
But what if he gets hurts in the first game of the season?
But something like that never happens
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 17, 2009 4:20 AM EST up reply actions
crazy talk
the odds of something like that happening are…wait
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
It was a million to one shot doc! Million to one!
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
So that's what they will be telling us
In April.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 18, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
great...
we can just go to the Spring training pitcher just as good as Carp store…
because its not like they arnt tons of them around.
Why not just freaking sign Sheets now?
If Carp cant go we have someone just as talented, if he can go we have a scary good rotation.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 5:59 AM EST up reply actions
Irrationality springs eternal
Carpenter hasn’t pitched in two years. If this is not just PR, I cannot understand it. Just because the team is paying Carp a bunch of money does not mean he will ever pitch again. It is irrational to base the season on his return to health.
I will be really bitter if the team goes to ST, effectively, with Pinero as the #4 starter and Boggs as #5.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 17, 2009 7:31 AM EST up reply actions
I understand your displeasure
as I would like an additional starter too, but it is just as irrational to assume Carpenter will never pitch again. He looked pretty good in the few innings he threw last year, plus the last time he had a nerve problem that kept him from pitching he came back the next year and won the Cy Young.
I am not predicting anything that dramatic, but there is no reason to assume the guy is completely done.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
I hope...
That Chris Carpenter will make 30 starts in ’09. 200 IP, 140 ERA+. He did better than that in 2005 and 2006.
But,
I think it is irrational to predict the above line is probable. Or, anything close to it. At the start of the year, you want to set yourself up with the best probability of winning that you can, within reason.
Signing Looper + a real left-handed reliever (someone who is a good pitcher, not just a LOOGY) is reasonable. I think the Cards could probably do it for the amount of money that they offered Fuentes, or close to that. Whether Carpenter comes back, or not, I think we would have a greater probability to win.
If we go into the season holding our breath and hoping Carp comes through, I will believe that the team could have done better but chose not to.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 17, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Our bullpen looks solid
we need to sign another starter, not ben sheets. ok maybe ben sheets after we get another consistant starter
by vivaelpujols on Jan 17, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
Maybe Miller will pitch well all year. He’s probably our best bet. The Cards were able to sign him for 1-year and $500,000 (+ incentives) because of his medical report, though.
Maybe RIng will rise from the dead. It would be great. There are some promising indications. Stranger things have happened (see: Wellemeyer).
Maybe Ostland will become a real major league pitcher. I hope so. But, he was 27-years old in Low-A ball. Not a great sign.
I just don’t think it is rational to bet on these scenarios. Left-handed relief is really, really important to the way LaRussa manages. As shown last year, he will use whoever is there, and if they are not adequate the team gets hurt.
Also, none of them pitch well against right-handed batters. That is important because (except for when Ryan Howard is batting or someone like him) teams pinch hit against LOOGYs. They did against Villone, they will against any of these. LaRussa will leave the lefty in. Probable result = a walk or a hit (see: Villone).
This situation could be remedied. So could the starting pitching. Both remedies involve spending money, actually winning a competition with another team to sign a free agent.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 17, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
well we have 4 major league quality LOOGY's
throw shit at a wall and some of it’s gonna stick. I figure a LOOGY really doesn’t have as much of an impact as a good starter.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 17, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree that they are
4 major league quality LOOGYs
but yeah, starter is more important. If they aren’t gonna get another starter though, they may as well get another LOOGY.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 18, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Why not both?
Yes, a quality starter is more important.
Maybe I’m unrealistic, but would $20MM over 2 years (combined) really not sign Looper + Ohman?
The Cards were willing to offer nearly that, plus loose a draft pick, for Fuentes.
I think those two players would improve our team, as in get Pinero out of the starting rotation and give us an absolutely killer bullpen.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 18, 2009 3:19 AM EST up reply actions
That sounds great Ben Sheets
to me. Looper would be able to Ben Sheets stabalize our rotation and Ohman would Ben Sheets reinforce our already strong bullpen. We have the money to sign those two. Ben Sheets.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 18, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I put sign Garland
I really, really want them to NOT do that, but I just know its whats going to happen
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
Same here
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 17, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
Springer
This just bugs me. The guy was the best right-handed reliever for us over the past two years, and we want no part of him now, even when he offers to lower his demands.
I told them I’d take a pay cut, play for incentives. And it just never went anywhere… They don’t have any interest in bringing me back.
If Tony and Dave are serious about moving K-Mac into the rotation, they are going to be very sorry they didn’t push to get Springer re-signed. Bet on it.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
Sorry vivaelpujols
I didn’t notice you had already posted this earlier in the thread. My bad, I need to read through the thread better next time.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 17, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
It's interesting though
you had almost the exact same thoughts as i did
by vivaelpujols on Jan 17, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
according to buster olney
“mulder could be this years gem” http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/odds-and-end-10.html
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
he better remember the team that paid him millions
and come over here at league minimum.
On with the (good) youth movement!
I'd pay him league min
To see if he’s gotten his arm glued back on. Or at least give him a ST invite. We’re paying Ring and Ostlund and Manning so why not Mulder too?
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 17, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I like taking a chance on Mulder
At the price he comes at, why not? Same for Pedro. He’ll command more but still not much in the scheme of things. Guys like Clements are never going to catch lightning in a bottle again. But the truly great always have a chance.
Just win
I don't know why olney thinks mulder is coming back.
but again, if you read this, it says essentially, “scouts tell olney that mulder MAY BE the hidden gem of this year’s free agent class. Mulder is due to throw for scouts in a few weeks.”
So, the scouts, who don’t seem to have seen Mulder pitch, already think he’s the hidden gem? Does that make sense? or maybe somebody said to Olney, “Mark Mulder’s done. Stick a fork in him. Guy’s going to be lucky to get a minor league deal. Of course, if he did come back, he’d be the hidden gem of the free agent class.”
again, this is not really news.
i can, can mo?
spell minor league contract
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Buster Olney is a knucklehead sometimes
The guy hasn’t pitched any consequential innings since June of 2006. The dude’s shoulder, which is harder to fix, probably looks like a bird’s nest at this point. He throws about 15 pitches and goes to crap. He’s toast.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 17, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, pretty much
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 18, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
fool me once, shame on,,,,shame on you. fool me,,,,you can't get fooled again
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
You know what else they say...
Fool me once….Strike one….Fool me twice…………….Strike three!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 17, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Mulder creating a buzz with his rehabbing?
Mission Accomplished!
by Ray Lankford on Jan 19, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Kinney earning a new nickname
Goold blogging about Kinney’s offseason
When discussing his winter hunting trophy, Kinney was asked if he shot the bear. And that prompted the line of the Warm-up:
"No I wrestled it," Kinney said. "Trying to test the new elbow out."
Kinney has to get some sort of bear related nickname out of this: Grizzly Adams, Bear, mountain man, etc. Someone more creative than me please come up with a good one.
Also some talk about Mather at second at the end. Check it out for details.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
If Mather could actually play second
Then it would solve all of our problems at the offensive end. We would clear up the OF and the bench situation and we would have a legitimate platoon partner for Kennedy, who could also play the OF and 3B. He could be our DeRosa.
Of course this all hinges on him actually being able to play second base. I don’t doubt his athleticism, but I just couldn’t see a 6 foot 4 second basemen.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 17, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
hmm, this would be a pretty nice everyday lineup, but quite a pipe dream.
Rasmus
Mather
Pujols
Ludwick
Glaus
Ankiel
Greene
Molina
Pitcher
But think about how well Mather would have to hit in order to make of for AK’s D. It just isn’t realistic unless he somehow is able to pick up the position in 1 spring training and overcome the size issues.
and almost everyone of them
would be a farm guy
ras, math, apu,lud (kind of), ANK, mOLINA
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
NO Garland, NO Wolf, NO Looper!
by jealousblues on Jan 17, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
But think about how well Mather would have to hit in order to make of for AK’s D.
Assuming that he’d put up league average defense (a HUGE assumption). he’s have to put up around an .820 OPS or thereabouts to make up for the decrease in defense (this is also assuming the AK is a +15 run player, which would be a slight reduction in his value from last year). If Mather is a -5 or -10 at 2B he’s going to have to put up an OPS north of .900 to be as valuable.
I don’t totally buy all the defensive metrics out there — but if he’s a league average defender I think it hurts the Cardinals more than most because we have so many ground ball pitchers on the staff.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
agreed
I’d be more than happy to have Mather play 2nd every once in a while, hell we let Miles. I would rather have him super sub. He’s an average-slightly above CF, 3B a plus in the corners and I’m not to sure on 1B. (sample size)
Consider the Miles situation last year. Instead of a near 50/50 split at 2nd let Kennedy have 75% of the innings, Mather can help with days off until we use our defensive replacement in the latter innings (Thurston, Ryan). He’ll be able to give Glaus some time off and make spot starts in the OF.
This way we gain when he’s in the OF, we hold steady at 3rd (unlike when Miles was there), and the loss defensively at 2nd is minimal at best.
If the above plays out, I think it’s a win-win and frankly it would be nice to have a “Miles II” that can actually do something besides hit a single.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Josh Kinney =
Jeremiah Johnson. Next time you see him, ask him, “Kin you skin griz?”
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Where you goin'?
Same place you are Jeremiah. Hell.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
The crushing question that I have now is where we actually plan to put money.
We’re not going to get a starter, at least for now. I think this is a mistake. I realize Pineiro would become a very expensive swing man in the event Carp comes back healthy, but you can’t rely on that. The only real justification here that makes any sense is that the club is taking the lboros plan and wants to see KMac, boggs, or todd in the rotation. Not sure I buy that, but okay.
We don’t seem to be aimed at getting bullpen help. Either Ohman or Springer would seem to make sense and neither would make a huge dent in the money left over.
We don’t seem to be interested in signing another position player. Either of the Orlandos would be worth a win or so at second (presuming cabrera would come here and play 2d), but I don’t like the cost of that win in money or draft picks. Alternately, a low-end acquisition like Durham would make some sense, though I like the idea of trying out the young ones.
Are we really done spending money for the season? Are we “keeping our powder dry” and hoping somebody comes to us at a super cheap price (e.g., ohman settles for one year, sheets shows up for $10M/yr)?
Which might be a good strategy
If they could pull off the right trade. Wait until all of the OF in FA are signed, then flip one of ours for a starter.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 17, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed
Too many outfielders in FA that would have much more impact than Ankiel, Ludwick(Manny, Dunn, Abreu, etc.). Wait till these guys are signed, and when a team that didn’t get an OF gets desperate, I think Mo will trade with a Pitcher and pull the trigger.
There was a few teams all in the rumor mill on X. Nady, Ank is similar to Nady’s situation but better performance upside.
So let that play out and then the teams who get left out try and broker something there.
Just a thought.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
dry powder
is starting to look like fairy dust
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Apparently
In the bank.
I hope I’m wrong.
Sign someone who can pitch, then let this team play.
by IL and StL Fan on Jan 18, 2009 3:25 AM EST up reply actions
anybody else see the asking price for robinson cano?
A.D.A.M.
Freakin ridiculous. at least we know Mo has been working all options. and if these are the kinds of responses he has been getting no wonder we haven’t moved an OF yet.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
What's ridiculous is John Mozeliak
He said he was going to be aggressive. Apparently that was just lip service.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I don't get it
Engaging in trade discussion for Robinson Cano is being aggressive in my opinion. But once the Yanks start by asking for Wainwright Mo cut off talks. Would you want him to do a bad deal just because he said he was going to be “aggressive”? I fail to understand the criticism on Mo for these things. He was being aggressive by looking at an option to improve the 2B position via trade especially due to the fact he was targeting a player with all-star potential. He was also being “smart” by deciding those options would not help the club short term or long term.
by block writer on Jan 18, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Being aggressive would be actually getting Cano
He obviously wants him. Then get him! Be aggressive!
Instead, he wanted a player and he backed down like he’s always done!!!!
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
Why would you trade for Cano when Hudson is available?
Cano isn’t exactly getting paid cheap at all. He is getting paid like a premier player and doesn’t deserve that. Any other team Cano would be a salary dump.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 18, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Hudson would cost less
Than Cano will be making over the next 3 years. And he is nearly as good as Cano.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 18, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's that simple
Sounds like a Steinbrenner’s mentality, just “get him” isn’t the right way to look at it. There are levels of degrees into how bad Mo “obviously” wants Cano. Just because he couldn’t find a match with the Yankees doesn’t mean he “backed down”. I am sure Mo makes dozens of calls to teams about players he wants that don’t turn out into acquisitions but he will only make a deal if he thinks it helps the club. I don’t understand how you can criticize him for refusing to trade our best young pitcher who he just signed to a long term reasonable contract for a 2B coming off his worst year as a pro. If you are frustrated with the Cards for not signing big names and trading away young talent for name players maybe you should just switch to the Yanks.
by block writer on Jan 18, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
to make it simpler Kennedy was a 1.8 WAR player in 2008 and figures to stay around that because of his defense. Cano has been as high as 4.7 WAR player, but last year he was 0.6 WAR and his defense is streaky at best. He is not a guy who you would want to trade away a proven young pitcher like WW for, epically considering his big-ass contract.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 18, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
I have to stop this now.
I’m screwing around.
I figured most everyone on here knew I wasn’t in the ridiculous, knee-jerk camp that freaks out over things like this. Sorry. Once you bit, I decided to push it a little further, but shouldn’t have. Actually, I thought if I used enough exclamation points, it might be clearer I wasn’t serious.
Sorry.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
my sarcasm meter is broken
probably should have picked up on it. Shouldn’t have brought up the Yankees thing. Guess I’ve read too many anti-Mo comments recently and sent me over the rational thinking line.
by block writer on Jan 18, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone has a breaking point
Just figured you reached yours
P.S
I love Two and a Half Men
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 19, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Nah.
Actually, the whole Jason Garrett thing almost got to me, but thankfully those “rumors” were squashed pretty quickly. Now, that’s a franchise that’s got me gun shy. And it only took them about 4 years.
Re: P.S.
I’m glad someone got it. I saw that one again about a week ago and just had to use it.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
Joe Mather at 2nd
This was posted at the end of yesterday’s main thread but I thought it should be in here too. From DG:
A close second was Joe Mather’s take on how many positions he may play this spring. Mather played five different positions in the Florida State League — starting as a shortstop, moving to third and then first and finally, because of injuries around him, to left field and right field. He’s bring three gloves to Jupiter for spring training and if that means playing a little middle infield, the slugger with the power-forward frame is game:
"I’d like to play second," he said. "I think that would be a blast."
I have to say, that would be sick. An everyday linup of:
Rasmus CF
Mather 2B
Pujols 1B
Ludwick LF
Glaus 3B
Ankiel RF
Greene SS
Molina C
P
7 of the players in that lineup could easily hit 20 HRs. It wouldn’t be a stretch for 4-5 of them to hit 30. All we would need is another pitcher.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
Per D Goold
Schumacher is also taking ground balls. I would say that he more sense defensively considering his frame.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 18, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
That line up would look pretty good too
Schu 2B
Raz CF
Pujols 1B
Luddy LF
Glaus 3B
Ank RF
Greene SS
Yadi C
The only thing I could see different is if Raz leads off, then Skip bats 9th which means the pitcher stays 8th. With the above lineup order I don’t see a legitimate option at the 9 spot.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Jan 18, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
aha!
I knew skippy might play 2B
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 18, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
If you read carefully
As far as Schumaker and the urban-legend of his prowess in the infield, he added: "I’ve played outfield before. There’s a reason why I’m in the outfield."
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 18, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Schu shoots down 2B rumors
From Matthew Leach at mlb.com, time to give up the ghost on Schumaker at 2B.
“What is the deal?” he asked incredulously when the topic was brought up.
Shumaker doesn't get it
his bat doesn’t play as a corner outfielder but would look great at 2B. If he had any sense he would be taking grounders daily and telling anyone who will listen that “yes indeed I can play 2b”. That’s what Mather is saying and who do you think actually could be a more credible 2B?
He knows
he is short, white, scrappy and undertalented. With MIles gone he will likely be the new player-coach.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Schu's okay
He is legitamate major leaguer, he defenitley is better than miles.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 19, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Why does everyone assume...
the cards covet “the short, white, scrappy middle IF”…..Placido Polanco, Tony Womack, Miguel Cairo, Abraham Nunez, Cesar Izturis, Joe Thurston, Rico Washington, Felipe Lopez, Hector Luna, Ron Belliard, Jose Vizcaino, Marlon Anderson, Edgar Renteria, Fernando Vina, Wilson Delgado, have all played the MIF for the Cardinals since 2001 and none are white
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Eck, Miles, Kennedy. We’ve had a constant fill of white boy scrappiness as well.
I would hazard to guess it’s more of a site joke than anything else.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
maybe so...
I just read it an awful lot and i’m thinking to myself…“now hold on a minute, we’ve had plenty of non-white guys fill these same roles thoughout the last several years”. I think its an unfair to suggest that we target this type of player when its clearly not the case.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
no-no-no..
It’s not like that, it’s just something that has a theme around here. I don’t think anyone is talking in the terms of targeting.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think
there was a game last year where all 9 players for the cardinals were white. Pujols had the day off and LaRue was in for Molina…don’t remember the last time I saw that
If anything
I am jabbing at the casual fans. The same ones who worship David Eckstein, Joe McEwing, Rex Hudler, etc. I don’t think TLR or the FO cares about the white part, but they like the scrappy, undertalented part I think.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Not that I care, but...
There were 8 black players on the 1996 team, and that number was down to just 1(Brian Barton) on the 2008 team. I know that that is parallel with the general decline of the number of black players at the big league level. If 8 % of current major leaguers are black, that means that each team should have 2 on their 25 man roster. So it is probably not that they’re eschewing black players so much as that they’re just not coming into the game as much in the last 15 years.
There was a window between the departure of Ray King in 2005 and the acquisition of Preston Wilson in the summer of 2006 in which the Cards were without a black player. I think it is harder for a black player to stick as a bench player as opposed to being a star quality player. It seems like most of the black players having success in the majors today are franchise players like Rollins, Howard, Sabathia or Fielder. You don’t see hardly any on the bench or on the mound; Instead they get used as a “speed presence” in the outfield. I racked my brain and could only name Sabathia, Price, and Edwin Jackson as current African-American non-Latino regular starting pitchers.
by Czechguardsman on Jan 20, 2009 4:45 AM EST up reply actions
Carmona is Dominican
I was sleeping last night and thought of Dontrelle Willis, Jermanine VAn Buren, and Jerome Williams, but all of these guys might be done. Still, I got to thinking that mabye we could pick up Willis from the Tigers. They need a left fielder, so mabye Dontrelle Willis + pitcher for Chris Duncan?
by Czechguardsman on Jan 20, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I would sooner
sign John Garland or even Kip Wells before I’d trade anybody for Dontrelle Willis. He’s finished…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Did you know...
That Kip wells has as many seasons with an ERA+ above 115 as Dontrelle Willis? That those seasons occurred around the same age as Dontrelle Willis’ seasons? That he wouldn’t cost us a prospect and would make 1/5th as much money as Dontrelle Willis is owed over the next two seasons?
I didn’t say we should go get either of them, but I’d rather pay Kip Wells $2M for 2009 than pay Dontrelle $10M in 2009 and $12M in 2010, wouldn’t you?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
well since you had to get all logical
and include salaries in this discussion, ye….nope, I just can’t make myself say it.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
The way Tony talks about Mather
he’s probably filling that role.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Mather as the new Miles
I’m having a hard time visualizing it.
I mean in super sub + Tony putting him all around the field.
Not as in short, loaded with facial hair and carrying a flyswatter to a turkey hunt
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I thought your point was well taken
… meant as a bit of a joke. Tony has always had a little scrappy utility infielder around (Miles, Bo Hart, Stubby Clap, Mighty Joe McEwing).
sorry, long day at work = take everything as literal (I’m in escape mode)
and yeah, on P-D there’s a very recent quote of Tony saying Mather is a “ballplayer” so it’s smellin’ like the new Miles
I bet it’ll feel weird for Tony to have to loo up towards his “Scrappy-Doo” heh.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
look* even
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
cursed webblog controls.
I’m thinking of him more as the new (sober) spiezio. With a bit more power and maybe a bit less defense.
Pie to Orioles for Olson
Could this trade lead to SD trading Peavy to the Cubs for Marshall, Olson and something else?
I'm not sure if the Cubs have enough peices to get Peavy anymore
Olson and Marshall certainly wouldn’t be the key pieces of the deal. They would probably have to add Fontenot or Cedeno, and because they trade DeRosa, they wouldn’t want to do that. I think Olson would actually be a great fit in San Diego, because he is a fly ball pitcher, but he isn’t a great prospect yea
by vivaelpujols on Jan 18, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
not sure who said it
but when they signed milton someone here said mark my words pie is done.. oh and off suject Runyan from the eagles has a lot of back hair seeping out of his jersey
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
i said it...
… but i certainly wasn’t the only one, and i doubt i was the first. it was just obvious.
just another “can’t miss” prospect being given up for next-to-nothing. although if i were Cubbies i would’ve kept Pie instead of signing Joey Gathright. but whatever.
well, they got those 4 pitchers for derosa
Hard to gauge their value, though.
with 20/20 hindsight, it’s a real shame we didn’t make a move like that with spiezio after the world series ;) Of course, I’d have had my pitchfork out, then.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
What is San Diego's fascination with Garrett Olson
and why, if they want him so much, didn’t they just trade for him themselves?
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
Garret Olson
Is a classic soft tossing lefty who put up good strikeout to walk numbers in the minors. In any other park he would be an average pitcher, but because he would be playing in San Diego, he could have a lot of success. San Diego limits home runs to the extreme and that would seem to be Olson’s biggest concern moving forward.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 18, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
His upside is average
no matter where he pitches.
And if the cubs get Peavy because of San Diego’s fascination with Olson…… But again, why didin’t SD just go get him themselves if they’re so enamored with him?
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
They tried to
They tried to trade Greene for him, but Baltimore didn’t want to. San Diego doesn’t have many chips besides Giles and Peavy and both of those guys are way to much for Olson.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 18, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
If that's the case
and Baltimore then signed Izturis, then Baltimore needs a head check, imo. Especially since they just traded Olsen for an outfielder that they don’t really need.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Pie replaces Scott who moves to DH
Huff moves to 1B for a season (and to improve his trade value). The O’s will have Pie, Jones and Markakis in the OF for the next three seasons, five if the Markakis extension is true.
Sure
But does moving Pie into the starting outfield and Scott to DH improve their club as much as leaving Scott in the outfield, trading for Khalil Greene and thus upgrading the worst position on your team (before signing Izturis obviously), and then going out and signing Adam Dunn to DH for you?
If you’re trading away a serviceable starting pitcher, wouldn’t it make sense to improve an aspect of your ballclub that can’t really be improved from within or on the free agent market. I think they have three of the better starting pitchers in the minors right now, so trading Olson is a defensible move. Trading him for an outfielder they don’t necessarily need isn’t.
It would be similar to the Cardinals trading an outfielder for a third baseman. Yes, we have more depth at the outfield positions than at third base, but we also have a lot of depth at third base.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I would venture to say
that Greene will be better than Pie in 2009, and Baltimore would probably be able to sign him long term after that season if they really wanted to.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
My guess though
When you figure out (Value to team minus Salary) = Pie > Greene
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 19, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
That may be true
If you’re comparing only player to player. But if you compare how much better Greene could be over Izturis and how much better Scott is than Pie, then the move makes a lot less sense to me. In terms of long term value — if they believe that Pie is going to be better in 2011 than Greene or Olsen then maybe it’s a good deal. But considering they have outfielders in their farm system and a complete absence of any middle infielders to speak of, I’m just not sure that it’s a great move.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Izturis figures to be almost as good as Kahlil at half of the price
Iztuis could hit 9th in a deep lineup ad wouldn’t be that much of an offensive liability and his defense more than makes up for it. Also Olsen wasn’t in there plans in the future. Pie was a top prospect as of last year and they got him for almost nothing. Even if it doesn’t make a lot of sense, the trade is still way in the favor of the O’s.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 19, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Unless the cubbies can flip Olson for Peavy.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
Or it could be like 2005-2007
when Izturis’ cumulative win value was -.6 and Greene’s was 6.8. That works out to Izturis should pay the Orioles and Greene is worth $10+M on the free agent market.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
This is Baltimore
The O’s are so far out of contention in 2009 the only big crowds they’ll have are because of Yankee and Red Sox fans.
They already have a Dunn-type player in Huff. The move allows them to fill DH/1B which was a hole. They used Kevin Millar last year.
Again, 2009 for the O’s will be a success if they win 75 games. Spending more money isn’t going to get this team competive in the AL East. They are targeting 2011 at this point so signing Dunn now would be foolish.
so...
Because they already have a “Dunn type player” means that Adam Dunn can’t help them? I disagree. If you make the moves I suggest you have this lineup:
Roberts 2B
Markakis RF
Wieters C
Dunn DH
Huff 1B
Scott LF
Mora 3B
Greene SS
Jones CF
That’s a pretty damn good lineup right there. You have good power hitters behind your young stud catcher, good on-base guys in front of him, and good pop at the bottom of the lineup that can create runs on it’s own. Jones fills the second leadoff role well in the 9 spot, especially considering that Roberts and Markakis can drive runs in with their gap to gap power.
Depending on how healthy Papi is (and he was pretty banged up last season), I’ll roll with that lineup over what Boston is going to roll out there next season. Nobody outside of Ortiz really scares me all that much in the Boston lineup. The O’s may not have pitching, but that lineup would score runs with anyone.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Thats a little to left handed heavy in the middle
Also Weiters won’t bat in the middle of the order at the start.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 19, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Nit-picking, nit-picking
Do I need to throw up the lineup they trotted out there last year? The lineup above is heads and shoulders better.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
If San Diego takes less than
Vitters, Cedeno, Marshall, and Olson for Peavy I’m crying out: SHENANIGANS!!!
That is the only plausible deal from San Diego’s point of view. You get a young SS, two young pitchers, and a possible stud corner infielder or corner outfielder. That’s the return you have to figure that they are looking for in return for their best player.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Therefore, it'll probably be
Tyler Colvin, Angel Guzman, Wellington Casto and Rich Hill
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
get the brooms!
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully Cardinals go to superbowl = Cardinals go to world series
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 18, 2009 10:20 PM EST reply actions
but hopefully cardinals lose superbowl does not = cardinals lose world series
*cough Ben Sheets *cough Sheets
I must be getting a Sheets cold.
by bearcatcardfan on Jan 19, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
i for one have thought the 08 cards =
06 cards..nto toughest divisoin, noone picked up but are playing well at the right time..and have had their fair share of injuries(Boldin APU), got a guy of the scrap heap Warner,Weava etc..im pulling fo rthem as they will be heavy underdogs again against pitt
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jan 19, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
We just ran into much bad luck the end of the year
Injuries start to pile up and we got tired.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 19, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
I'm definitely pulling for the Cardinals in the SuperBowl
I remember when they left, but that was a long time ago and I’m still a fan of Kurt Warner. Both the football player and the man.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
I pull for the cardinals,
for Kurt Warner. I’ve never liked or disliked them much since I was too young to care when they left, but how can you not pull for Kurt Warner?
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I only am who I am because I was born that way. I have a gift and I'm trying to not be selfish about it, but to use it, OK? Jealousy will get you nowhere!
go Phoenix!
rise up from the ashes
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 19, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Kurt Warner leading the Cardinals to the SuperBowl
Next thing you know Jim Edmonds will lead the Orioles to the World Series.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jan 19, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
How so?
Is Barry an ex St. Louis star and the Padres an ex St. Louis franchise?
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jan 20, 2009 7:45 AM EST up reply actions
Top remaining free-agents for the cardinals needs
1. Ben Sheets
2. Oliver Perez
3. Will Ohman (!!!!)
4. Joe Beimel
5. Orlando Hudson (would be higher if not for A status)
6. Andy Petitte
7. Brian Shouse
8. Braden Looper, Jon Garland, Randy Wolf (not sure how to rank these, but my preferance would be Loop).
honorable mention: Mark Mulder (can a minor league deal/matt clement-type deal really hurt as long as we aren’t relying on him?)
Worst possible free agents:
1. Jason Isringhausen
2. Brandon Lyon
3. Juan Cruz (type A)
4. Miguel Cairo (it always scares me when he is available)
5. Josh Fogg
6. Livian Hernandez
7. Jason Jennings
8. Sydney Ponson
9. Odalis Perez
10. Freddy Garcia
Doesn’t it suck that the bottom list has such a higher probability rate than the top list?
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions
I guess I was a bit harsh on Lyon....
considering the other names on that list, but he is not a good closer and would likely get….pardon the horrible pun….the Lyon’s share of the closing duties.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
why is mulder a catch and isringhausen scary?
mulder has not shown up healthy or functional through 2006, 2007, and 2008. Isringhausen was quite good in 2007. Of the two, izzy has a better chance of being functional.
I want no part of either, but I don’t see the logic.
and honestly, that whole list of FA beyond sheets, ohman, and pettite (who’s not coming here anyway) is a bunch of meh.
Shouse could be good
nothing exciting about him, but is an excellent LOOGY who we could have for nothing.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 19, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
mulder is not a "catch"...
he would just worth taking a flyer on if it doesn’t cost anything. I really enjoyed watching him pitch when he was on his game. An isringhausen signing or any other closer signing isn’t necessary and, knowing Tony, would probably result in either perez or motte in AAA. Also, if I was worried about how impressive the list was Manny Ramirez’s name would have been on it. I’m not suggesting that the cards should go and get these players, its basically just a list of who the top options are based on their needs.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
its extreeeeeeeeeemely likely...
that none of these players would be signed at all.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
ugh...
I think he belongs in the fogg, jennings, ponson soup
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Why is there a fervor to pay for a specialist. If anything that’s the area to dumpster dive.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
i tend to think...
if something is clearly broke you make sure it gets fixed. Last year our lefties were horrendous, so I think it should be addressed outside of the “dumpster”. Its not like these guys are gonna break the bank.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
3/4m may hurt opportunity costs on something else.
I get where you’re coming from, but this is the situation where I’m real skeptical of spending money. LOOGYs aren’t something that if used appropriately should be costly (like backup MI). I’d like to add one or two more and if we did we could add them and still be under the cost of Ohman.
By design, getting rid of Flores (and to a lesser extent, Villone) has already improved us. I guess I just feel like you lose more than win going for those contracts.
I actually like Cruz… if we got a damn nice contract.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Cruz ...
would be nice but not worth a 1st rd. pick. I would’ve been okay with Ohman, Beimel, or Affeldt to go along with Ostlund and Ring. But I’m not sold on Trevor Miller.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Jan 19, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
It would have to take a damn nice contract, but I’m open to him out of your list out of the guys on bottom. I’m not taking losing the draft pick lightly though.
I think Miller is the main reason we’re on the opposite spectrum. I think he’ll be fine. He pitched well as the season wore on last year and has a great split. (I’m discounting the 3 games right after the all-star break which hurt his second half stats).
Considering his surgery past the tear could have been there for years, he had surgery there in ‘00. He says he has no pain didn’t even know it was there and I trend to believe him – since I have the exact same thing.
I’m a firm believer that a LOOGY, MI/Catcher backups (starter injury concerns aside), Long/Swing man shouldn’t be something you invest heavily in. If we can get any of those guys at cheaper than advertised price then I wouldn’t complain, but I’d rather build depth and glut in the LOOGY department on pitchers who have success in splits, but don’t work out in other roles. More times than not you’ll lose when you spend, IMO
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Jan 19, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Welly
How about Welly avoiding arbitration and getting a 4.05mil dollar contract and Duncan getting 850,000. Good for Todd I think he could be another great suprise this year and I also think he will outpitch Louse.
per mlbtraderumors
The Ms “likely are willing” to trade Aaron Heilman. I think that he has nasty stuff and would thrive under Duncan because he has the heavy sinker. Also we could let him pitch battting practice to Yadi to get his power stoke up.
per Rosenthal per mlbtr
Along with looking at Manny, the Giants are looking to possibly trade for a “hitter”, and Sanchez is said to be available. What package from the Cardinals would be worth Sanchez? Might be nice to have a lefty in the rotation (even though he strikes people out)
they will probably want ludwick
and sanchez isn’t htat good. He is basically the same exact pitcher as oli perez.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 19, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Remaining Options - Duncan & Ryan
I was confusing myself trying to see who has minor league options left. If I’m reading the glossary at Cot’s Contracts correctly, it looks like Duncan still has a minor league option this year. Dunc was added to 40 man in Sept 05 so I thought 06, 07 and 08 would be his option years. But he wasn’t optioned in 07 and spent less than 20 days in 08.
Does Brendan Ryan also have an option left since he was optioned for 18 days in 2008, Aug 5 – Sep 1? (Added to 40 man Nov 05.)
If this is true, it does help out with roster management and the logjam in the OF. Rasmus could start in the majors and not forcing a trade/dfa to make room. Also don’t have to keep 4 MIFs to keep Ryan with the club.
I hope your right
about Duncan, he could probably use the time to get his swing back anyway
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 19, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
AAA logjam
the only problem is that you also have a logjam at AAA in the OF.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
we're like the outfielder outlet
for everyone’s outfield needs
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 19, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Just like Sofa King
Our outfielders are Sofa King Great!!!
Just off Route 13 in Secaucus!
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
Roster Matrix
I don’t know who has the capability to edit the roster matrix, but it needs some additions. We had Wellemeyer down for $2.5M and he got $4.05M, and then we had Duncan down for $600k but got $825k. That’s another roughly $2M that we don’t have to sign Sheets…
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
Read this
Cards 2009 Arbitration Forecasts
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 19, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm
why not sign ankiel to a 2-3 year deal of some kind, 2 and option for example. as long as there isn’t a no trade clause, would this not make him easier to deal. i know boras would not be pleased, but not all of his people are going to get what they want.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
That might be a good idea
But I would rather wait on Ankiel to give him a deal. He has performance and injury issues and while he might have a huge year (which we all know he is capable of), he could just as likely be injured or innefective. I would rather trade him now with no contract extension or let him play for us next year and then let him walk.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 19, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
it's a u-pik'em
sign him and hope he he does better than you pay. if he does well he will be expensive, and maybe out of range. with only 1.5 years of ml experience, i’m not sure he’d rate a type A, in which case we get nothing. isn’t it better to pay now, hope he does well, and then know you have him? otherwise it’s pretty bizzare to hope he does poorly enough to sign him. at a fair price based on his time as an outfielder, i’d take a shot now. tough sell with boras, but it is rick’s life/career, so hope he sees boras for what he is. might give varitek a call, for example.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Ankiel doesn't have a future on the team
Rasmus is the real deal and Ludwick will be on our team for 3 more years. Also we have Schu, Mather, Barton, Jay, Jones and probably Wallace also. We could take a risk and give him an extension, but that would just handicap us. I would rather use him this year and let him walk.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 20, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
pretty impressive
how close walton got to Wellemeyer’s salary.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
I just redid it myself
We are currently around $91-92M
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 19, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
They have been pinching their pennies this season on every single position. They are not letting the little things add up like signing Miles or getting a more expensive LOOGY.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 19, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
they’re at least giving themselves a lot of head room and flexibility
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 19, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
my nephews are definetly going to play ball
i can’t believe Welley & Dunk got that much cash.
oh & they will both be ambidextrous power hitters & relievers.
and they’ll have gills so when their careers are over we can start our own uncle-nephew treasure hunting business.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Ben Sheets - 2 years/$18 M
this is what he is asking for from the Mets. I swear to God, if he signs for $10 M a year or less I will burn this place to the ground. TO THE GROUND I TELL YOU!
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 20, 2009 1:16 AM EST reply actions
you bring the lighter, i'll bring the gas
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
That is excatly my thought when I read it
If he signs for 2/$18-20M/3rd Yr Option not in Saint Louis I will fucking lose it.
Here is what Fan Graphs has it worth the last couple years
2008: $20.6
2007: $9.4
2006: $14.7
2005: $12.7
He could miss a significant amount of time and still be worth the contract.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 20, 2009 2:47 AM EST up reply actions
He would actually be better served
to take an incentives laden 1 year deal. That sounds terrible, because he is so good and was actually healthy for most of this year, but it would make most sense for him. If he takes a low base, incentives laden 1 year deal and pitches well and is healthy, then he enters next years much weaker FA class in basically the same situation Burnett was this year, a 31 year old in his prime with great stuff and stats who had health issues in the past but is supposedly over them. If he misses half the year again then he enters next year much weaker FA class in the same situation he is in this year.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 20, 2009 3:03 AM EST up reply actions
Very true...
which makes you wonder if he knows something about his health.
Still, even if you get two half-years out of that, it’s almost worth it. Better have 20 very good starts a year than 15 bad, 15 so-so, and 5 good (Pineiro)
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro (on another team, thank you Mo!)
That's what he's ASKING for?
That probably screams something about his health, but I would still take a chance on him, and if we offer him a 3rd year option, how can he refuse?
Just hold up the train a minute here...
If he’s ASKING for that amount doesn’t that absolute scream “health issue”? Everyone knows that he’s a better pitcher than that, hell, Milwaukee would have paid him more than that in arbitration! If he’s begging for a 2 year deal worth less than $20M, then it tells me that he may not be 100% and that he knows it. Otherwise he’d be asking for an incentive laden one year deal so he could be a free agent after the ’09 season and be the lone gem in a shitty free agent pitching class.
Anytime a pitcher is seeking a deal that undervalues him as much as this one, caveat emptor, pal.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
he's hoping
to catch lohse, economically
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
Is that what he is asking for
or did this article just get out of hand?
Has anyone seen anything that shows that 2/18M is what he is looking for? I can’t find a damn thing, and after seeing this I just had to go looking for it. If it isn’t just some columnists idea, I will bring the marshmallows if we don’t sign him for that.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jan 20, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
link in the new Hot Stove thread
from Metsblog via MLBTradeRumors.com
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
If he signs for $10M or less
Kyle Lohse better show up to spring training with a 100mph fastball that defies gravity.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 20, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
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