Sunday tidbits
The always wonderful fangraphs, never satisfied with the status quo, has added CHONE projections to its long list of tremendous stats. It seems to like Duncan and Mather, but not Ankiel. Ludwick’s down some but it likes David Freese. Oh yeah – it expects Pujols to be the best hitter in baseball.
If you haven’t yet visited the link, Erik (yes, of futureredbirds fame) has posted a great fanpost that uses Sky Kalkman’s user-friendly WAR spreadsheet to project the Cards’ win total in 2009. It’s a great spreadsheet and Erik has done great work to come up w/ an idea of how good we’ll be but I believe he used the Marcel projections. Download the spreadsheet and see if the Chone projections differ from what Erik came up with. If we truly are, right now, an 88 win team, how good would Derek Lowe look in a Cards’ uni? Those 3-5 wins could be the difference between making the playoffs and not – which would have a huge impact financially on the team. This is exactly the time to spend high $ on a free agent – when you’re 3-5 wins or so away from making the playoffs.
I brought up Derek Lowe again b/c there’s a report out that the Braves, fresh off of signing the pitcher many Cards’ fans were drooling over – Kenshin Kawakami – are close to signing Lowe as well. Rosenthal says Lowe would receive a 3 year deal in the neighborhood of $40-42 M. The Cards ought to be in on that. They have the money, if only just barely, and he’s worth it. As I said the other day, it probably makes sense to toss in some kind of 4th year option that vests automatically if he reaches some # of innings or # of starts over the first 3 years. That 4th year option could seal the deal and it wouldn’t hurt us b/c it would only activate if Lowe is healthy and productive. And the Braves are in the eastern time zone but it lends credence to the notion that Lowe doesn’t have to be in Boston or New York if the numbers are right. Get in there, Mo!
Speaking of free agent pitchers, Harry Pavlidis over at BtB has a thread going about Juan Cruz and the possibility of the Cards signing him to be one option as closer. Cruz is a good pitcher but, as has been noted here several times, he’s also a Type A free agent. Is he worth a first rounder along w/ the money? Without spoiling Harry’s thread, he doesn’t seem to think so. In fact, his analysis makes Cruz sound an awful lot like one young pitcher we all know. Now, I like this pitcher but he’d be considerably less appealing at $4-5 M per year + our first round draft pick next season. As it happens, he’s not nearly that expensive. Dan likes Cruz and I do, too – but not enough.
I caught this link over at BtB yesterday also. Replacement Level Yankees Weblog has taken THT’s projections and come up w/ the first (of many) projected standings. It’s got the Cards 2nd in the Central, behind the Cubs, finishing at about 85-77. That’s not really too bad considering our starting pitching looks like it does. Let’s see, the Wild Card would go to the Phils, who are projected to finish w/ 88.3 wins – 3.5 ahead of us. Think Lowe’s worth 3.5 wins? I do.
Over in the hot stove thread, Erik posed a question that got me thinking. He asked at what point type A free agents lose their type A status? In trying to find the answer, I stumbled across this Buster Olney post. Now this will probably be the first and last time I link to a Buster Olney post on the front page, but it’s a relatively interesting discussion of type A free agents who are caught in "compensation-pick purgatory." That is, teams like them ok but they don’t believe the players are worth the first round draft pick + the money. So there’s some question as to when and if they’ll be signed. How low would Cruz’s money have to fall in order for him to then be worth the compensatory pick? Wouldn’t it turn this compensatory-pick rule on its head if better free agents become worth less than lesser players simply b/c it costs the team a first-rounder as well? Make no mistake, just b/c I wouldn’t pay Cruz’s money now doesn’t mean I wouldn’t pay it later. Remember, one of those type A guys is Ben Sheets! His market could be plummeting and it might have, in fact, hit rock bottom already.
Incidentally, I should have mentioned the other day that our friend Erik has a new Cardinal blog out. Stop by and say hi at play a hard nine. He’s smart and obviously knows a lot about the team and its prospects so there should be some good conversations developing over there. Good luck w/ the blog, Erik.
BTW, in case you missed it, HL and some others have it documented for you. The Cards won game 7 of the 2006 NLCS and will be playing the Tigers in the World Series. Hopefully those games will be coming to the mlb network soon. I think we’ve got a pretty good chance here. (Watch out for Kenny Rogers, though. I’m not sure he’s all natural, if you know what I mean!)
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49 comments
Comments
Chone's projections
Ankiels projections looked about right to me, not sure why you think they are so bad..
According to these projections Uncle Rico should be on the team in place of Shumaker. WOW, they don’t like Shumaker much but the Rico projections are just silly.
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Jan 11, 2009 9:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It may be right
but that doesn’t make a .794 OPS very good for a corner OF or a CF whose defense is a liability.
by chuckb on Jan 11, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The one thing to take note of is context
Even though CHONE thinks Ankiel will post a lower OPS than James and Marcel in context it is more optimistic than the other two. Look at what each other projects Ankiel RAA to be
James – 4.4
Marcel – 6.7
CHONE – 6.9
so even though James and Marcel projects Ankiel to have better numbers in context of the league he is actually doing worst. CHONE seems to more conservative League wide in its offensive numbers.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 11, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I predict
that his defense won’t be a liability in ’09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 11, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Wasn’t Ankiel ‘s defense good when he was healthy, but then got progressively worse with the lingering abdominal injury (among other injuries)? He should have been DL’d.
Also, I’m not convinced that Ankiel cannot continue to improve his defense.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 12, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I thought too
But Giveml is right- ankiel didn’t play CF after the injury (july 26th). So all of his negative uzr in CF comes from before the injury (assuming he really hurt himself when he crashed into the wall, and not some other time).
It’ll definitely be interesting to see how Ankiel does next year. I thought he was much better than that, at least early on.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Jan 12, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I felt at times he looked lost
There were more than a few times he took ridiculous paths to the ball and, on occasion, would dive or leap backward or something to make the catch. Of course, everyone would cheer, but I was always like “Uhhhh…..nice catch Rick…..”
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Jan 12, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
version 2.0
Rather than ERA’s, I used FIP and then estimated a tad bit up or down, depending on the pitcher. If a player’s CHONE projection was too optimistic in my opinion, I took their Bill James and their Marcel and just found the average.
Feel free to look at the other scenarios, I have one wear they open the wallet and sign Orlando Hudson and Randy Wolf, and the other where Colby is the main starter in CF, Ludwick moves to LF and Ankiel RF.
I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9
by erik on Jan 11, 2009 9:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll say it again...
This team won’t make the playoffs with the rotation as it is UNLESS something wacko happens. Well, no, that’s not exactly right…they need a lot of something wacko(s?) to happen. Carpenter is broken, I don’t trust Lohse and Wellemeyer to repeat their performances of last year, and Pineiro is bad. I don’t buy the argument that that rotation is fine because it was good enough last year…I don’t particularly care about last year, only the future, and guys who have career years completely out of the blue or who seem to be injured semi-permanently don’t inspire great confidence in me. I hope I’m wrong.
How do they fix this? Sign Sheets for one year and big money and cross your fingers, or bite the bullet and try for Lowe. They’re the best options out there and could add a ton of value, especially if they can squirt 170 innings or so out of Sheets…If nothing else, that is 170 innings that Mitchell Boggs doesn’t have to pitch. I’d be okay with either, but I bet they’ll wind up with Jon Garland, who is plain and simple bad.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 11, 2009 11:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The bullpen was "good enough last year" going into 2008
Then they were terrible
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 11, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice mixed article, chuckb!
I’m all for projections, especially if they’re presented in such a way to foster further competition with the simple reference Marcel the Monkey. A projection comparison thread a little over a year ago had Tango (Marcel), Rally (CHONE), and Nate Silver (PECOTA) openly discussing them. At that point in time Rally declared:
“My CHONE spreadsheet is an excel worksheet with 142 columns of mind numbing calculations with multiple lookup tables, and gets no better answers than a monkey. I think the term I’m looking for is mathematical masturbation.”
Things could be a lot different now, though. Is there a place that regularly compares the major systems?
I was skittish about Kawakami because of age and performance translations but I had no clue on the pricing. Still don’t actually – what did they pay? 85-88 wins pre-Lowe sounds good, but second place sure is distant per that projection: it has the Cubs at 91.5 wins. Yowza! I wonder if it has Bradley playing, and how often.
by astrostl on Jan 11, 2009 12:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I keep hoping I'll win the Lotto too but...
I think thats just as likely as the Cardinals signing Lowe. I have a few reasons in mind. First, they certainly have the depth as an organization to put together a very attractive package for a young talented cost controlled starter/s. The problem is they’ll have to wait til Spring Training when the health of Chris Duncan and Rick Ankiel are displayed. If they are healthy and swinging nice then I’d expect a significant trade opportunity to present itself. Whether its for one of those two or just the fact that they are healthy allows the team to trade someonelse. Second, I don’t think they are ABLE to spend that much money. I have no proof but I can’t figure any other reason for how tight they seem right now. You may think I’m calling them cheap but I don’t believe the Dewiits are cheap. I don’t think Mo is cheap, he’d love to have more money to spend. Which begs the question; How profitable is the Franchise? At the end of the year, are they in the black and by how much? Thats what I’d like to know. I’d say there’s a good chance the front office has noticed slower ticket sales so far this year than in the past few despite the all star game. Everything has slowed down. What I think they should remember though is that a signing like Lowe could actually increase ticket sales thereby increasing profit.
by Walking Underwear on Jan 11, 2009 12:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Almost a year old now but should give you some data about team values
Forbes: The Business of Baseball
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Jan 11, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Flim!
After looking at those numbers I’d say if the club could certainly afford Lowe. Obviuosly at some profit loss but since I’m just a fan I couldn’t care less. Am I reading this right? The Cardinals made 21.5 mil in 2007? The Yankees and Red sox lost money?http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/33/biz_baseball08_The-Business-Of-Baseball_Income.html
by Walking Underwear on Jan 11, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they don’t count media stuff for the NYY. I wonder how merchandising is factored. Perhaps I should, like, read the footnotes :(
by astrostl on Jan 11, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding revenue information, this is funny to me:
(I also believe that Forbes is at least trying to be wholly truthful with their figures, which I’m not convinced is true regarding MLB’s periodic disclosures.)
Basically, we only have guesses of what MLB franchises actually bring in. There is no way for us to know how much profit they end up with at the end of the year, but I’m guessing it’s a lot. Since we don’t know, they can cite the recession and it is a perfect excuse for them not to have to sign (insert player here) while continuing to make more money than anyone should ever need. I’m not trying to say DeWitt is cheap, but all MLB owners probably profit a lot more than they let on. I’m sure there is enough extra money for them to spend $4M on Ohman rather than $500k on Ring, but for some reason it doesn’t work that way.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 11, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that was going to
be a Rick-roll ’til I hovered over the link.
by spants on Jan 12, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know there’s a significant number of people thinking “what’s a rick roll?”
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 12, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
(always wondered about all team revenue but didn’t think it was published)
by astrostl on Jan 11, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Number 1 in operating income: Nationals.
Number 2 in operating income: Marlins.
Haha!
by astrostl on Jan 11, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is funny.
I still can’t get over the fact that DeWitt bought the Cards for just 150M, then turned around and sold just the parking garages for almost that much.
by Toddius on Jan 11, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think he sold the garages for around 80-90 mil
so not that close but still a huge chunk
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 11, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never heard about that one. Funny :)
by astrostl on Jan 11, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
There’s a scheduled maintenance on the SBNation tonight at 1AM central time. I suppose the sites going to be down for a couple hours.
Anyway, just an FYI to those that live out West, in other parts of the world or are just having trouble sleeping and want to fool around on VEB in the middle of the night.
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Jan 11, 2009 3:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Totally unrealistic dream I just had
#1. 200InningCarpenter
#2. Lowe
#3. Wainwright
#4. Lohse
#5. Wellemeyer
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 11, 2009 3:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not to be rude
but did you change the sheets when you woke up?
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 11, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's a certain SNL song/bit that comes to mind
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 11, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In all seriousness
That rotation is entirely possible. It ain’t gonna happen, but it’s not out of the question. According to TRA+, that would give us potentially 3 #1 starters along with 2 #4s. If that isn’t a dominant playoff rotation, I don’t know what is. Another reason we should at least make a bid on Lowe…
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 11, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is it?
Is it “entirely possible”, “not going to happen”, or “not out of he question”?
I’m totally confused…
A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!
by Tackle Box on Jan 11, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I mean that it’s POSSIBLE, but not likely since we aren’t into signing big name FAs. Put another way, it’s not like the suggestion included peavy and sabathia.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 11, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Independently of each other
I’d say a 10% chance on Lowe, and a 10% chance on a 200 inning Carpenter. 1/100 isn’t too possible.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jan 11, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're sayin' there's a chance!
The artist formerly known as...
Mr Redbird @ Viva El Birdos
PowerOfDixieland @ Track Em Tigers, other SEC blogs
by jd is legend on Jan 11, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
10% on Lowe sounds about right, but I’m higher on Carpenter. If he is healthy he’s going to pitch, obviously. It may not be 200 innings, but it could well be 180-190. I think there’s more like a 50% chance that Carpenter is healthy enough to pitch this year. Then if someone in charge saw the light and signed Lowe, there would be a decent chance of that rotation happening. It’s the most possible “dream” scenario that I can think of.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Jan 11, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Confusion
I think he is saying it is POSSIBLE, but not PROBABLE.
By your figures, you show that it is possible, but highly improbable.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Jan 11, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a lot like my chances with the fairer sex
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jan 11, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just switch lowe with sheets
and we in!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 11, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude...No way
I had a dream too!
Peavy
Wainwright
Lohse
Wellemeyer
Healthy carp with an above average era
Guess i dreamed big :D
by Taskmaster on Jan 11, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just for fun
Webb
Carp
Lincecum
Waino
Peavy
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jan 11, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Watching the 1989 ALCS
they just commented on how Dave Duncan teaches all his pitchers the forkball and how many around baseball believe this causes undue stress on the pitcher’s arm and causes lots of arm injuries.
Is this still a widely held belief? And why is he trying to kill Chris Carpenter then?
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 12, 2009 1:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I've never seen any research on it one way or the other
There are so many factors that cause pitching injuries that isolating variables is nearly impossible. I wouldn’t be surprised either way, but I think it is a widely held belief among a lot of old-school pitching guys that I’ve known in my day.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 12, 2009 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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