What do you think the Cards will do this offseason?
I am interested in what you all think the Cards are likely to do this off season. So, let me me start off with my guess. In a word they will do very little. Quite honestly why would they? This team has one question to answer, one hole to fill, and one problem to address.
The question is who will be playing short stop next year? My wise ass answer is not Rafael Furcal. Face it folks this ownership team would not sign Edgar Renteria to a 4y 40m deal. I doubt they will pay Furcal 5y 70-75m or there abouts. Cot's has Furcal at 13m this year, and ESPN's Dodger page has him at 15.7m. I am not sure which one is correct. At 31 years old I would expect Furcal to be looking to go long and somewhere in the 15m per year range. Certainly out of our price range.
I would not be surprised if Cesar is resigned. Personally I would suggest Brandon Ryan over Izy2. Izy's line for '08 in 362 AB's is 311/ 296/ 249, and Ryan's career in 362AB's is 323/ 345/ 265. This says to me do not re-sign Izy2. It is said that their glove work is equivalent so why spend the money on Izturis when Ryan gives you the same thing for a fraction of the cost.
I also think that a trade involving any of our top prospects is not likely. I think Rasmus is the first word out of every GM's mouth cutting short any conversation. I think that if a move is made it would be for a prospect that is blocked and loosing value. Zobrist has been mentioned by me and some others. Let Zobrist or whomever of his ilk compete with Ryan for the job. There was a fan post that suggested Mather for Zobrist. I doubt the Cards make a trade bigger than that. The rest of the infield is set. I think Lopez takes over 2b, and Kennedy is traded or released. Miles is re-signed and Freese makes the team backing up the corners.
The outfield is set too. Maybe Schu gets moved for the young short stop, but I have him on the team. Schu, Rick, and Luddy start next year with Duncan and Barton on the bench. If Colby has a good spring he starts in LF and Schu drops to 4th on the depth chart, and Barton is in AAA. I really do think that Rasmus starts the season in Memphis. I know people have been talking about trading Duncan. I was one of them two years ago, but now I doubt we could get anything for him. He needs to prove he his healthy and that his power stroke back before anyone would take a chance on him. Since the Cards traded for Miles/Bigbie we have been told that an outfield bat was on the way. Well, Luddy has arrived.
The rotation starting off with Wainwright, Carpenter, and Welley is going to be strong. I would expect that one of the remaining spots will be filled by an “in house” player. The other will be a free agent. The Cards will have 12m from Looper's and JuanE's salaries coming off the books. Could that get Derek Lowe? Lowe is sturdy and solid he has made 30+ starts per year the last seven years, but I have my concerns about signing a 35 year old pitcher to more than three years. Does anyone here think we could sign him to 3y 36m? Cause beyond that I get queasy. I would expect he would be looking for 4-5 years at 12m a year or more. He is a Boros client remember. Maybe we have to up the dollars to keep the years at three. There will be some extra money coming from Izzy's departure.
If we can not find a FA that fits the budget we will have to shop around, and find a guy willing to sign a one year deal to fill the hole in the rotation. Maybe Randy Wolf or our own Braden Looper.
The problem the team needs to address is the bullpen. With the 8mil coming from Jason's departure we will have the money to do a respectable job re-working the pen. It certainly can get no worse! Right!?
Well, I figure on Perez as closer. I would like Springer to come back as a set up man, and I hope Kinney is healthy enough to support Springer. Tyler Johnson could be back this spring. Thompson and Pineiro can work long relief and pick up a start when needed.
I am not sure we can count on Kinney and Johnson so I feel we need to look into FA's. So we need an experienced relief pitcher that could close in support of Perez, and it would be nice if this guy was a lefty. I would want an experienced power arm Anybody have any ideas? I think Fuentes is too expensive for what we need, but he is the kinda guy I am looking for.
The 25 man roster could look like this.
Starting 8
Schu, Lopez, Albert, Luddy, Rick, Troy, Molina. Ryan/Zobrist/etc.
Bench
Larue, Miles, Freese, Duncan, Barton
Rotation
Wainman, Carp, Welley, FA/Lowe-Lohse, MacClellan/internal solution
Bull Pen
Perez, FA/ Fuentes?, Springer, Kinney, Johnson/loogy, Thompson, Pineiro
You may be asking what happened to Franklin? Well, I am not sure what happens to him. Maybe he is turned into a starter and competes for the internal solution rotation spot. Maybe Kinney is not up for the job and has to go to AAA. Maybe he gets traded.
Like I said they will not do much. Find two FA pitchers one for the pen and one for the rotation, and make do at shortstop. Can you blame them? If they fix the pen and add a starter they go to the playoffs and maybe win a pennant.
PS. I will be in Pittsburgh this Saturday in section 112. I will have the number 37 on my back and my last name "Blessing." Strange last name, but if you see me and my wife stop by and say hi. Oh! This is NOT my first fan post so you can let me have it!
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honestly...
… i have no idea what they’re going to do. i’d expect that they sign a LOOGY and at least one FA SP. i think that one of Iz2/Lopez will be back, but i’m not sure which. i could see either Grudz or Renteria back as well (if there’s no hard feelings), but doubtful that both would be. i think they’ll try to trade an OFer or two, but it will be difficult to get much back. i still don’t think Schumaker’s value is very high, and Duncan and Barton have something to prove before anybody will offer up anything valuable for them. i think it’d take more than Mather to get Zobrist (or whoever), so possible Mather + Ottovino or something. i think at least one of Ankiel/Ludwick gets extended.
that’s about it.
We have to trade an OF
I think the front office knows this.
Ankiel
Duncan?
Ludwick
Schumaker
Barton
Mather
Rasmus
That’s just too many bats for four spots. Personally, I’d like to see an outfield of Ludwick, Ankiel, and Rasmus with Barton as the backup…but realistically, I’m not sure it wouldn’t be better to trade one of those guys to help in other areas.
It’ll be interesting to see what the market is like for a guy like Skip. He’s in his late 20s and offers a pretty mixed skill set (i.e. good defense, above average speed, inability to hit lefties). I think it would be interesting to see if Mo can convince some silly GM out there looking for a starting OF’er that Skip is highly valuable because of his high BA and plus defense.
Nobody is untouchable for the right offer (including Rasmus and Ludwick) because we’re dealing from a position of strength. There’s nothing wrong with having a surplus, but I think if we deal one or two of those guys we probably STILL have a surplus.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Barton get shipped to somewhere where he’ll play more. I think he’s got a bright future, but he doesn’t fit here. Surely other GMs have noticed, too. I think he has value.
Ryan and Iz2
I’d take both of them and platoon them at short. Both have posted respectable lines for bottom of the order spots and their glove work is at least adequate. Good bats that go with good gloves at short are rare and really expensive.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
Trading an OFer
Ankiel’s and Duncan’s injury status probably prevent a trade. Ludwick and Rasmus probably won’t be available except at a premium price (and are therefore unlikly to be traded). I am not sure how much value Mather has. That leaves Schumaker and Barton as the most likely to be traded.
Then again, we might not really have that much of a surplus of OFers. I think Rasmus is headed for another year of AAA and Duncan is likely done. That leaves Ankiel, Ludwick, a Mather/ Shumaker platoon and a AAAA backup in Mather.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
I think they sign a SS and LOOGY
I am thinking that Renteria’s option will not be picked up. I think the Cards sign him to a 2 year deal. I think they splurge on a real LOOGY and get Ohman.
I also think that they try to trade Ankiel. He just seems like the most likely to be moved considering his contract status. If only they could get a 2B for him.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
liking these ohmans(pun)
He would be the perfect LOOGY for the cards, i wouldn’t mind a Lowe at the 2-3/20-36 deal, throw in a schu, motte, and craig for michael young then we got a playoff team
I think there will be some big moves
We have to trade our surplus of Outfielders and our best trading partner has to be the Braves. They are so bad it is unbelievable. Here is their production by position.
LF – .262/.340/.363/.702 with 6 HR’s
CF – .288/.357/.396/.753 with 8 HR’s
RF – .226/.288/.345/.632 with 11 HR’s
Now what do you say we want from them? Kelly Johnson our 2B of the future. This is his first season of Arbitration. He posted .277/.345/.429/.774 line this year. He tends to be a streaky hitter though.
Now what do we give them for him? 3 Players… two of this group Mather, Ankiel, Schumaker, Duncan, and Barton. Than they also have to take Kennedy’s final year of his contract.
So this will give us a starting 2B we can start everyday and need 1 less MIFer. Now at the SS position I think they should give a 1 year/$5 mil contract to Renteria. He is type A free agent but I just can’t see Detroit taking the chance to offer him arbitration. Than as the utility sign either Miles or Lopez. Just one not both.
So lets see where we stand.
C – Molina
1B – Pujols
2b – Johnson
SS – Renteria
3B – Glaus
CF – Rasmus
RF – Ludwick
LF – Schumaker or Ankiel
Back-ups:
C – LaRue
2b/SS – Miles or Lopez
3b/2b/SS – Ryan or Freese
OF – Mather,Barton, and Duncan (2 of them)
Now on to pitching
Starting Rotation:
Carp
Wainwright
Welley
Pinero
FA – Lowe/Garland/Burnett
Pen:
Perez
Franklin
Springer
Motte
Tyler Johnson
Kinney
FA Lefty – Will Ohman 2 year/$5 million
I think the most important and realistic move will be acquiring Kelly Johnson for OFers. It stabilizes 2B for us so we don’t need to have 4 MIFer’s. An incentive laden deal would be good idea to get Edgar. I am not sure how much he has left in the tank with his line of .270/.320/.378/.698 for the season. He does shore up a hole vs lefties though. He put up a .342/.427/.518/.945 against them this season in 114 AB’s.
We wouldn't have to give up a draft pick
Cause Renteria will not be offered arbitration by Detroit. They are cutting payroll and by offering him arbitration they min he can get is $7.2 million so I don’t think they will.
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 9, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
U are right
about Atlanta. They are in real bad shape. depending on which two outfielders you are offering you could be over paying. I would hold onto Rick. I am not so sure the Tigers let Edgar go. He has a 3m buy out so he has an effective cost of 8m. He also has turned it in the second half. Even if he is available I am not sure I want him back. Don’t get me wrong I think it was a huge mistake to let him go. Not just for us, but imagine how much fun Renteria would have had hitting in the two hole the last 4 years.
The buyout
The Red Sox would be on the hook for the buyout. It was part of the trade negotiation with the Braves that carried over to Detroit
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 9, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I cant see the Braves moving Frenchy
Though I would love to see him on our team lol…
He struggled this year due to injury but he is a really good player.
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
what about..
Schu and Freese for Johnson? They need outfielders and Jones is getting old. That leaves us with still some outfield depth to and some above average minor league pitching depth to potentially deal for SS or bullpen help.
by Birds on the Matt on Sep 12, 2008 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
rotational depth
i think the one thing we can learn from this year is that rotational depth is a necessity. So we’ve got Carp, Wain, and Well for sure. Resign Looper if it’s a team friendly deal. Then we find our 5 guy. I don’t like Garland so much. He seems like a vanilla pitcher that would require LOTS of years. Carlos Silva redux? Throw the money at an ace, get denied, then sign 3 guy. Piniero is still alive as far as I know, so at least see if he can eat some innings. Boggs? like it. McClellan? Let’s try it out in the rotation. He can always go back. With the Cardinals aggressiveness in promoting pitchers recently could we see Clayton Mortensen sometime next year in a bullpen role? Jess Todd? Amaury Marti?
(I never doubt the mysterious powers of Marti. If Motte can convert to pitching, Marti can do it. With no arms.)
What the Cards do depend on if TLR is our manager
or the GM in Seattle. Until we know that it is impossible to guess.
Who started that rumor?
Tony would be a terrible GM, and I can’t imagine any team giving him even a whimsical look. Seattle does some bone head things but I don’t think they would go that far.
by abothecardinal on Sep 10, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
am I wrong in thinking "pity the farm system of a team that has Tony as GM"?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
FIRST PRIORITY HAS TO BE DAVE DUNCAN
Like Pujols, and Tony, the guy has deserved to have a job for him here in STL until HE decides he’s done, and not before.
Then, priorities should be bullpen and a starter. I would like to see an improvement in MI, however the pitching has to be set as a higher priority in my opinion.
I would like to see Duncan brought back on as long a deal as he’ll sign. I’d like to go after Fuentes, trade for Mahay, or find a comparable, proven lefty veteran who will consistently do what is asked. I won’t dream of KRod and I wouldn’t want Valverde even though he seems to have caught fire lately. In the meantime, sign Looper back on a Marquis-to-the-cubbies deal of 3yr/21-24 million, or even do a 2yr/19mil Jim Edmonds contract. That would be WW/Carp/Looper/Welley with Thompson, Boggs, Piniero, and maybe McClellan/Todd putting some starts together.
Take the draft picks with Lohse, and realize that you stole one from Armando Montelango’s “Flip This..” page and flip that pitcher into two serviceable draft picks to bolster the farm.
With whatever’s left over, you could make a play on a MI, but I foresee a Miles/Lopez/Ryan/and Barden team fielding up the middle, with an outside shot at Izy2 coming back (since TLR is set to be or MGR next year).
If we can make a decent trade from our OF surplus/RHP prospects, I’d like to see a MI of high quality with team control for a few years, but I don’t see the cardinals doing much to fuss with the system that finally has earned some sorts of passing grades.
All my humble opinions, and I expect I’m wrong somewhere.
BURNETT!!
I know he’s on a hot streak right now, but I know we would be even in the wild card if his stats were going on our team instead of Looper or another mediocre starter. We’re gonna give up a pick if we sign him at this point. What do you think Moz and the boys turned down for him? cuz that trade woulda countered the Harden, Sabathia trades perfectly!!
Burnett
needs to opt out. That seams very likely at this point. If he does he will be saying no to a 2y 24m deal. So what kinda contract would he be looking for? I think it would be in the 4y 60m range, and that is just too much. If Lowe could be had for 3y 36m or there abouts I would much prefer him. What we need is a sturdy guy that will give us 30+ starts and 200 innings. Burnett is a excellent pitcher, but his price tag and injury risk both are too high.
Priorities
1B Pujols Phelps, Wallace
2B Kennedy Hoffpauir, Martinez
SS Ryan Barden, Greene
3B Glaus Freese, Craig
C Molina Anderson, Johnson
LF Schumaker Duncan, Barton, Stavinoha
CF Ankiel Rasmus, Robinson, Jones
RF Ludwick Mather, Jay, Marti
Carpenter Mortenson
Wainright Ottavino
Wellemeyer Garcia (Out)
Piniero Parisi
Boggs Walters
Perez
McClellan
Motte
T. Johnson
Flores
Thompson
Jimenez
I am sure that I missed a few, but the point is that this team is fairly deep in adequate position players and pretty thin on the pitching side.
On the position player side, only a true star would do much for this team offensively. They will make some attempts, and they will come close on somebody. (Cano, Perralta, Holiday, Ordonez) They will likely come up with something in the middle infield. I don’t see them bucking up for Furcal, Hudson, or Cabrerra. Renteria, Durham, Lopez, or Izturis are the most likely candidates. In the end, I think they will pull off a trade, but I can’t figure out who and for what. Don’t be shocked if Adam Everett is the shortstop next year.
This team is very deep in outfield prospects that are getting close to major league ready. I think they will shop Skip, Ankiel, and Rasmus in the offseason and one of them will be dealt for a pitcher or middle infielder. The Yanks are very serious about going after Hudson and possibly moving Cano. An Ankiel+ deal for Cano is not so far fetched. Ank would hit a lot of bombs in that short porch in right. (Does the new field have the right field short porch too?)
The money has to be spent on pitching first. This team needs a guy who can knock out 200+ innings. There are a few free agents who can do this, but they will be very expensive. The best bargain in the group should be LOWE, but Boras says otherwise. Looper will probably be the best bargain, but he is a .500 pitcher. Lohse will get big money from somebody and fall flat on his face.
My prediction: Their best bet at a name brand big arm dude is Brad Penny. He grew up a Cards’ fan and isn’t thrilled with the Dodgers…coming home might be appealing. 3 years and 36 million.
This bullpen needs help and needs lefties. The 2 main guys are Fuentes and Marte and the bidding will be fierce. I think the Cards will go over budget to get one of these guys. If that can’t land one, then they will pursue a trade. Marte at 4 years and 30 million. They will also go after another lefty. Don’t be shocked if they fail on these first 2 if they go after Affeldt and Ohman. Affeldt is more likely. In addition, they will go after an oldie. (Villone, Rhodes, Embree are possibilities.)
So, if this team came up with: (for around $30MM)
Penny, Marte, Affeldt, random backup catcher, and Lopez or Renteria.
Sabathia, Affeldt, Rhodes, random backup catcher, and Miles.
Looper, Marte, Embree, random backup catcher, Renteria and Lopez
FIND ANOTHER LUDWICK!!!!!
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
and now for $120M and some trades...
Starting 8
Schumaker, Ludwick, Ankiel – Albert, Glauss, Molina, Polanco, Renteria
Bench
LaRue, Miles, Lopez, Duncan, Mather
Rotation
Carpenter, Wainwright, Halladay, Garland/Lowe, Wellemeyer
Bull Pen
Biemel/Affeldt, Ohman/Affeldt, Springer, Franklin, McCllelan, Perez, Lyon
really?
A 33yr old middle-infield – 36+ when the albatross contract they sign will be up? MI is a spot they need to trade for. They can throw money at every other position, but its becoming increasingly clear that MI in their mid 30s drop off significantly. The ones that don’t are extremely rare.
by Birds on the Matt on Sep 16, 2008 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
true and vaild points
Polanco has 1 yr left on his deal at $4.6M, Renteria has 1 yr option at $11M. I’m not suggesting long term deals for either player, nor would I sugest giving up the farm to trade for them. However – each player is a upgrade and improvement over the Cardinals 2008 options at 2B and SS. An offensive upgrade for sure and added flexiblity for one year, while their defense is still very solid. Especially if we are batting the pitcher 8th again in 2009, it gives the line up a better 9th hitter option.
Polanco can play 2B and back up 3rd when Troy sits or if he spends anytime on the DL – same with SS. Miles and Lopez are both weak at 3rd (but can do it in a pinch), but decent 2B options off the bench – while adding switch hitter flexibility off the bench. Polanco can also play in the OF if we need to go all right handed with Mather and Ludwick.
The hope for the organization is that Barden, Hoffpauir, Ryan, etc… can develop to be productive everyday option at those positions – no guarantees. Having Polanco and Renteria for 2009 does not move the organization away form that hope, nor would it create a albatross contract.

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