Game 140 postgame
by lboros on Sep 3, 2008 7:03 PM EDT
54 comments
that's one of the toughest road trips i can remember; 4 great pitching performances, and 3-run leads in the other two games . . . . . coulda gone 6-0, went 1-5 instead and there's your season.
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Somebody here touched on this
but I had that same thought beginning the ninth that Perez would look easier to hit to Arizona than Motte. They had just seen a brand new guy – some big scary, intimidating dude firing it 99 mph at them – and had to be relieved to see someone else come in. I’m sure some of those hitters were relieved he was outta there.
by ccthemovieman on Sep 3, 2008 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It also helped...
that instead of throwing the fastballs up and in, like Perez usually does, they were down. IMHO, Duncan got to Perez, trying that pitch to contact stuff, which just doesn’t work on anyone who isn’t a sinkerball pitcher.
by DiscoJer on Sep 3, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh my god, shut up
you have no proof that he is trying to convert perez into a sinkerballer, or that he preaches pitch to contact to closers.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Sep 3, 2008 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's pretty obvious
the save was blown, and they hit the ball, therefore Duncan is converting him over.
Might as well trade him to an enlightened club now, for his own good…
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 3, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Save blown = Duncan meddling
Its really that simple.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 3, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Major League II reference
“You(A.Rey) has no….no….MARBLES!”
by brindled on Sep 4, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DOes that follow
when he didnt face the same batters though?
"A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while."- Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh
by CurtainCall on Sep 3, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I said it jokingly in the other thread.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and "good grief"
and “rats”
and “i got a rock” . . . . .
by lboros on Sep 3, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems
as if this season was modeled after that classic practical joke where Mr. Brown always tries and comes so close to kicking that little football, only to have it pulled away from him and landing on the flat of his back. Poor Redbirds.
by brindled on Sep 3, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even when they don't blow the save...
They do… Is there such thing as an honorary blown save? I think Franklin deserved one on Sunday…
"Crud, does that booger-eating spaz make me wanna puke!" - Tanner Boyle
by iron duke75 on Sep 3, 2008 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whats lost in the blown save by Perez is the fact that if you look @ the 7th,
Tony’s insistence on bringing in Villone backfired again, granted, KMac pretty much FUBAR’d the inning to begin with, but RV again failed to get an out by facing 1 hitter. The worse thing in the whole scenario was that he threw the wild pitch to cut the lead to 1 run.
Now, at this point, I really dont know what the right move should have been right there, other than NOT having Flo come in, everyone has shit the bed this year coming out of the pen. What I do know is what my 2 eyes tell my brain while Im watching these games, is regardless of all of the stats, to my eyes RV has not been very good in situations like the one today (and trust me, Ive spent waaay too much time watching practically every game). Im just going by what I watch, because after the wild pitch I got that sick feeling in my gut.
That doesnt absolve CP, I just thought it was a big moment in the game & it was a questionable move…again, IMO. But right now, I dont know if there is such a thing as a good move w/ this BP
by buzzburton33 on Sep 3, 2008 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what about tony's willingness
To go to Motte with 2 runners in scoring position and 2 outs in a 1 run game in the 7th?
by Evilfrog on Sep 3, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point, hes unproven, but he did his job...didnt he
also, he has not CONTINUALY FAILED @ his job. This was his 1st try & until he screws up, hes a better option than RV
I guess that I really do watch the game different from everyone else, because my eyes must be deceiving me & Ron Villone is really a good pitcher
by buzzburton33 on Sep 3, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 7th inning was fun
- Aaron Miles doesn’t turn another borderline double play after being subbed in the game for undisclosed reasons.
- Kyle McClellan is toast but isn’t pulled until the he’s had the chance to load the bases.
- Ron Villone comes in and throws a wild pitch, leading to a run.
- Ron Villone walks Adam Dunn, once again failing at his very minimal job.
- Was the 7th also the inning that Stephen Drew spiked Albert Pujols’ achillies tendon?
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come to think of it
that inning sucked
by Evilfrog on Sep 3, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes.
If albert had spiked him back, or if Perez had punished him for the spiking, he might not have hit that triple in the 9th…
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 3, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, another argument
on the value of a nicely placed bean ball!
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i usually argue against it
but I’m in a very, very bad mood. Kill them all.
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 3, 2008 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think
it was revenge for Upton? I never took Stephen Drew to be the Ty Cobb type….
Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: Filling the dubious shoes left open by Barry Bonds and the Giants.
by DbacksSkins on Sep 4, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
but I don’t think our pitchers are accurate enough to hit a guy in the head while he is sliding.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 4, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't see
how you can blame Tony for every situation. At some point its like, these are the players we have and these are the jobs they are supposed to do. Is TLR just supposed to pull a dominant reliever out of his hat?
"A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while."- Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh
by CurtainCall on Sep 4, 2008 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hate ron villone.
But that's not everywhere. I asked one friend, a lifelong Cardinals fan, a lifelong Cubs hater, a sensitive soul who admits bawling like a baby during Brian's Song, if maybe he could feel glad if the Cubs finally win. After all, it has been a 100 years. He looked at me as if I had asked him if he felt any sympathy at all for Attila the Hun. "I hope they lose for another 100 years," he said. "At least by then, I'll be dead."-espn.com article
by those are cobras, man. on Sep 3, 2008 8:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he hates you too.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 3, 2008 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want to send Dave Duncan a copy of Kalk's pitch data
and show him that when:
Chris Perez throws fastball up in zone = unhittable.
Chris Perez throws fastball down in zone = put it on a tee.
And as I say this, I see that Chris Perez is no longer available on Kalk’s website. What’s that about?
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 8:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's there?
not sure if this link works or not, but he seems to get hit about the same amount either way.
link.
Not sure how to read it in terms of “high” and “low”, but it looks like he gets killed in the middle (surprise?)
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 3, 2008 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so stupid
I was looking at the 2007 page and couldn’t find his name.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't tell? He gets beat up and in and low and away?
by ICbirdfan on Sep 3, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but it's at worst
4 hits to one, maybe 3 to 2 depending on where you set the “high”, “low”, and “middle” boundaries. The question is, does he miss more in the middle when trying to throw up or down?
I’d bet down, but that’s just bias; there’s no way to tell from that graph what he was trying to do with the down-central pitches that got hit.
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 3, 2008 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good analysis.....
His main problem is poor command… He has not quite got the ability to consistently put the ball exactly where he wants it…
Throwing 96 MPH will allow him to get away with it at times. I would say today was just one of those days he got beat while missing location some. Heck he could have just as easily gotten away with some missed spots. It’s baseball, but that is why I like hard throwers like Perez, they can get away with more mistakes than softer throwers.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 3, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I'm having trouble figuring out the height
If it is inches off the ground, 35 inches on a 76 inch tall man comes out to be middle of the thigh.
Only 1 pitch higher than 35 inches has been hit this season.
*I used 76 inches, since that is as tall as I am. For David Eckstein, 36 inches may be eye-high.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he does not get the high strike call?
You can’t throw high if it’s not a strike and guys dont chase…
Maybe He needs to work up in the zone with 2 strikes a bit more……
I don’t know we all knew he was going to blow a save at some time. I am not worried.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 3, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But this is a pattern
the same thing happened last time he was up here. I posted something over at the PD forums about how Perez was starting to throw everything ‘down’ after having been up here for awhile and that it had led to him increasingly being hittable.
I hope this is just a random occurrence today and he’ll go back to pitching the way he did against Milwaukee (up in the zone).
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did not watch...
I have not tracked his throwing style enough to catch a pattern…
Does he have less control low in the zone and miss location?
Does he attack up in the zone when ahead in the count?
Honestly I have watched him pitch but he has not pitched enough for me to pick up on any real pattern… I have noticed his fast ball has pretty goood run on it, but thats about it. I guess I have noticed his slider is pretty good mainly because his fastball is pretty hard and has really good movement. When he throws the slider the break is different and you get a bunch of swings and misses.
I don’t know, I hope he is pitching to his strenght/hitters weakness… He only throws 1 inning so let it fly.
You are pretty up on things Hardcore so I belive ya
by ICbirdfan on Sep 3, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i remember an interview believe it was in Florida or shortly after
Perez used “pitch to contact” which is actually vague as hell if you ask me.
Pitch to contact can just mean throw strikes, don’t get cute, you got great stuff attack the zone.
It does not need to mean throw slow and low in the zone.
It’s a pretty vague term and Duncan has never really talked about how “pitch to contact” can differ for each pitcher.
I think on this board “pitch to contact” was defined as something and everyone fears the term.
Heck Roy Halladay says I “pitch to contact”, what does it mean? depends on who you ask.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 3, 2008 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It 100% mirrors the Reyes pattern
Looking through the data all the hits he has given up appear to be on pitches from the middle to bottom of the zone. Look at the data from Perez, the top half of the zone is dotted with “swing and miss” and most the hits are from pitches well below that.
So what do we have him throwing? Pitches in the zone where he gives up the most hits. Its clear that was the plan because post game he talked about “it was a good pitch, it was low”.
by DriverZn on Sep 3, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if anything, he gets squeezed low
look at all the green dots inside the box in the bottom of the picture.
On second thought, there’s also a very clear area of “no hits, lots of swings and misses” up high. Definitely looks like he should stay in the 35+ range, though how much of that is set up by the low stuff is impossible to tell.
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 3, 2008 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like climing the ladder...
strike 1- 96 MPH fastball low and way in the strike zone
strike 2- 85 MPH slider
strike 3- 97 MPH heater up and in a bit
Like I told Hardcore I have not seen Perez pitch enough to remember much of his pattern and what not.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 3, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Villone, along with
Isinghausen, Parisi, Flores and whatever are a few relievers I hope I never see again in a Cardinal uniform. I still hove hope for Franklin back where he belongs, earlier in the game. K-Mac, Motte, Perez are all very young and inexperienced but I’m hoping at least one of the latter two becomes an ace…….and soon.
I feel bad for the Cardinal starters, most of whom deserve several more wins than they all have, thanks to this inept bullpen. Hopefully, this nonsense will end next year.
by ccthemovieman on Sep 3, 2008 8:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how do the Cards manage 3 runs off Doug Davis? They hammer Johnson and the guy last night...
The Cards are so far yet so far away this year….. They just cant add on runs and they struggle to hold leads in big situations.
K Mac is scuffling right now which sucks… He was struggling back in early July too I believe, it happens. Chris Perez is human and will blow a few more saves so lets move on and get ready for more games.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 3, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are still only 5.5 games back
in the Wild Card and 10 back in the division.
That last part is the most intriguing because we are 10 back with 6 left to play against our opponent, the Cubs. The Cubs also have 6 left vs the Brewers, the team with the 2nd best record in the National League.
So, quite frankly, this could break either way.
While I don’t think it is probable, it is possible that the Cardinals could take all 6 vs Chicago, Zambrano goes down with a nerve/tendon problem and the Cubs lose 4 of 6 to the Brewers. Couple that with the Cubs lack of home games the rest of the season and the fact that they still have to play New York for 4 games and Odds-on-favorite to win the division Houston Astros, this could get really crazy.
But most importantly, the Cardinals need to start handling their own business. Anything less than a 5-1 homestand coming up is unacceptable. No more standing still. If they can accomplish said goal of a 5-1 homestand, they will head off to Pittsburgh (I’ll bring the Doritos, Yadi!) and Cincinnati vs two hapless teams, and then back in to Chicago.
During that same time, Milwaukee gets Philly, Chicago and a series vs the Padres that includes Peavy and Young. Chicago gets us, Houston and Milwaukee.
Maybe simply ‘standing still’ was good enough after all. Now, it’s time though, to make a legit run. No more letting games slip away, no more pissing away games in the division. For all the crap they’ve put us through this year, the Cardinals actually have a chance to finish this season 17-5 and make the playoffs.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 11:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hmm
17-5…isn’t that like a .77272727272727 winning percentage?
by brindled on Sep 3, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it is.
It’s not likely they will do it. However, the opportunity is there for them to make such a run.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like you HL
you bring balance to the force. I like your plan and im excited to be a part of it.
by brindled on Sep 3, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a newsletter
would you like to subscribe?
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't the Rockies
make a more impressive run than that last year?
Not saying I’m about to call my bookie and place a bet on it….but there’s certainly precedent…
"Crud, does that booger-eating spaz make me wanna puke!" - Tanner Boyle
by iron duke75 on Sep 3, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have T-shirts
using the graphic spray art from a booth in the mall. The neon accents are a nice touch.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i only got the see the last 3 innings
and i was away from the laptop so that’s why i didn’t get on, but i could totally see that blown save coming from a mile away. once KMac entered the game i knew it was lost. why Tony keeps going to him when he’s clearly lost it is beyond me. its just like him running IZZY & Frank out there earlier in the season when they clearly had lost it. why we can see it & he can’t is just mind boggling.
it’s a shame,,,they had a chance to be .5 game back of the Brew Crew if they played a little better on this road trip. just like the season, they had a chance to make the playoffs, but for a number of reason, that chance slipped threw their grasp.
it’s sad that a very promising season has become one of the most aggrevating seasons in recent memory. this season was their for the taking, and they blew it. they flat out blew it.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Sep 4, 2008 1:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if i were some part of the powers that be
i would seriously consider shutting mcclellan down for the year. his arm has logged more innings than in should probably be expected to handle at this point.
i’m worried one of those cardinals arm gremlins are working their stuff on him. another outing or two, and poof! see ya in 2010, kyle.
by adiueordie on Sep 4, 2008 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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