Greinke
by supernova on Sep 27, 2008 4:22 PM EDT
33 comments
If you were the Royals GM and were offered Rick Ankiel, Brian Anderson and Clay Mortensen from the Cardinals for Greinke, would you do it?
Is it too little for Greinke? Is it too much? Would you want Greinke?
Anderson has hit at every level in the minors, even though he's always been young for the level, and an average defensive catcher. He hasn't hit for power, but is still filling out and has that potential. I'd imagine he's the 2nd or 3rd best prospect in the Cardinals system and probably ranks in the top 5 among catching prospects.
Mortensen is a good starting pitching prospect who's had a good year in the minors this season. He was a 2007 draftee.
Ankiel is one year away from free agency (and is a Boras client), but plays a good defensive CF (allowing DeJesus to move elsewhere), has very good power, and is still developing as a hitter and outfielder. However, he has a high strike out rate and is somewhat of an injury risk.
Is this a fair deal? Would it help the Royals enough? (as a Cards fan, I think it would help the Cardinals) If you wouldn't do this deal, what do you think the Royals can get for Greinke that would be better?
Do you think the Royals will indeed trade Greinke?
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If I was the Royals
I’d ask if you need me to drive them to the airport.
by Harknights on Sep 27, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the good thing about the royals
is that the guy doesn’t even need to fly…
I don’t think that’s enough, but the royals have given more for less in the past. I would think Greinke would require rasmus, though.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on Sep 27, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno.
I see Ankiel as being the type to give the Cards a big hometown discount. Even with Boras, the Cardinals organization has helped keep his dream alive, and I’m sure we would love to stay with the team.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Sep 27, 2008 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would normally think that
and it might be true even with Boras as his agent, but there is a reason that players have Boras as an agent; to get them top dollar on their contracts. This might be Rick’s only chance to get a FA contract, I just think it is very unlikely that he forgoes his first, best chance at free agent money to give the Cards a hometown discount.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Sep 27, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I asked the Royals fans over at Royals Review this question earlier this week.
the offer I would start with for Zach Greinke if I were Cardinals management is this:
1) A near-ready or MLB ready starting pitcher – Brad Thompson (26), Mitch Boggs (24), Mike Parisi (25), Kelvin Jimenez (27), PJ Walters (23), Blake Hawksworth (25), or Clayton Mortenson (23). I don’t mention Jaime Garcia because he’s most likely going to miss next season due to TJ surgery.
2) Rick Ankiel – still only 28 years old – he is a power bat that is better suited for CF, but has the arm to gun people out from right on a regular basis. He would have to learn the position a little better, seeing as though he is more comfortable in CF.
and
3) Bryan Anderson (21) – he is a stud-hitting prospect at catcher that (from what I hear) has considerably improved his defense to the point where it might already be major league ready.
What about that deal? It would shore up the Catcher’s position, the #4 spot in the order and either RF or CF, and fills a rotation spot for next year.
by stlfan on Sep 27, 2008 6:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that is too much for
Greinke.
Ankiel and Anderson together is too much.
Anderson, Mather and Boogs
Ankiel, Freese, Thompson
Something like that. Not two up the middle players
by Harknights on Sep 27, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I posted this on the Royals site too (sorry, stlfan, I didn’t realize you had proposed that there before…weird): both replies so far think it is that’s not enough for Greinke…
What if Todd was substituted for Mortensen? Or Jay was added to the package?
That would make me hestitate a bit…but ultimately, I might still do it to get a young number 2 under club control for a few more years…
Todd, I like better than Mortensen, but still expendable since we have other pitching prospects (including Mortensen)
Jay is expendable for sure, since we still have Rasmus, Jones and Wallace may move out there too.
by supernova on Sep 27, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too much, imo
Ankiel and Mort/Todd/Boggs would be my offer.
With his mental history, I don’t think he’s worth three potential MLB regulars.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Sep 27, 2008 9:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
perhaps this is pretty close for both sides...
http://www.royalsreview.com/2008/9/27/623246/greinke
both teams’ fans seem to think it’s a bad deal, so perhaps this is pretty even…
by supernova on Sep 27, 2008 9:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
royals fans on that thread are massively overvaluing greinke. He isn’t even close to being johan santana or dan haren, and the package you put together here is more valuable than what was given for santana.
I think the Royals fans in that thread are forgetting that Greinke, despite being young, is also a rental; he’ll be a FA in 2 years.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on Sep 27, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are nuts
two years ago the guy was having so many problems I dont know he was even on the team
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by jealousblues on Sep 28, 2008 5:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's the Royals' MI situation?
can we possibly dump Kennedy, or Lopez (cash in while his creds are up) on them? Both, if they insist. Hell, we’ll even throw in Itzturis.
Actually, I wouldn’t know Greinke if he knocked on my door, but his stats look nice; I’m sure he would be a good addition. Unlike some others, tho’ , I’d be very happy to re-sign BOTH Lohse and Looper, thus lessening the panic to get another starter (which usually means you have to give up too much to get one).
I’ll be in a hold my breath mode all off-season that we give away too many of our good prospects… for something other than a decent MI
by the Tewk on Sep 27, 2008 11:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, why would the Royals want to deal Grienke?
He is their number 1. They control him for 2 more years. Their GM believes in building and maintaining solid pitching staffs. He’s one the youngest of the bunch they have now. They might trade you Bannister or Davies, but Grienke? I would think they’d demand a stud young pitcher in return along with your best postition prospect.
It took the Royals a long time to get Grienke where he is today-a very long time. Why would they turn around and deal him? They don’t have a payroll problem. There is no reason to move him at all. Someone has to pitch the games. He’s potential Cy Young material.
They only way I see them trading him would be after 2009, and only if Hochevar makes huge strides in the coming season. Otherwise, he stays.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 28, 2008 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
according to KC radio (and you have to take radio with a grain of salt), Moore has hinted
the only way they would think of trading them is if they could get 2 or 3 top prospects for him, or possibly a legitimate power bat that they could control for a few years. I understand both. They only have him under team control for two more years, and a few great prospects could help them a lot more in the long run. The power bat is something that KC really needs, hell Jose Guillen leads that team with 20 HRs.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Sep 28, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 or 3 top prospects.....
I would think that means he’s not really available. Because I can count on 2 fingers the organizations that have that kind of depth and the kind of players KC wants in return.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 28, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would almost agree
but Greinke is also a Boras client, right? Maybe they want to get some return for him before he leaves. Of course the Royals of late have shown the willingness to throw some serious money at FAs, so there might be a good chance that they think they can resign him, but they still would be willing to trade him for multiple top prospects.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Sep 28, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is exactly why
I start an offer with Ankiel, Anderson, and Boggs (or whichever pitcher listed above that they would like the most).
That is a power bat and two of our top prospects.
by stlfan on Sep 28, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Greinke a lot
however Ankiel doesn’t make sense for the Royals. He is a year away from FA and a Boras client. Some people think because of all he went through he will take less to sign with the Cards. I don’t happen to agree with that but even if it were true, he wouldn’t be staying in KC for less than top dollar. From what I hear on the media (in live in KC), the Royals are more interested in right handed power hitter who can play CF. That would mean Ryan Ludwick.
by nmstar on Sep 28, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick is a below average CF
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Sep 28, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is a below average CF
why?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Sep 28, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
defensively, he is below average
he was actually below average in the corners this year, but just a bit.
His bat more than makes up for it though, even if he is more of an .860 OPS guy going forward…
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on Sep 28, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
When i have seen him play he always looked solid in whatever outfield position Tony put him in. It’s not like he is a born DH like Felipe Lopez or Ryan Braun.
by nmstar on Sep 28, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A born DH would be Billy Butler, Travis Hafner or David Ortiz. None of those three mentioned before this post are born DH’s, though i’d say all of them are mediocre defenders, none of them fit for CF.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Sep 28, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would they trade him?
Because there team has a ton of holes in it. If you can fill in 3 holes while creating just one new one, you may come out ahead. Value for value.
by azruavatar on Sep 28, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greinke is their #1 for the forseeable future,
most teams will not give that up, and I assume the royals are one of them.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Sep 28, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
foreseeable future?
two years is not much of a future . When you can’t really expect the Royals to be a contender in the next 2 years, why wouldn’t they shop him?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Sep 28, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Royals aren't winning in '09
so that leaves Zack with just one more year in KC before free agency. I think the Lohse soon-to-be signing puts any Greinke talk to rest as far as the Cards are concerned.
by nmstar on Sep 28, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals aren’t the smallest market team in the land. They signed Gil Meche, Jose Guillen, and they aren’t just going to let Greinke go for draft picks. They are not in a fire-sale situation like teams that trade away number one starters (Cleveland, Oakland, The Marlins). If you notice, they think they’re likely to pull a “tampa bay” and rise from the depths of their division sometime within the next two years and they obviously aren’t going to trade a player likely to lead that rise.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Sep 28, 2008 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not now
since David Glass has decided to open up the checkbook. But Royals fans could give you a diatribe about him on trading away Carlos Beltran, Jermaine Dye, and Johnny Damon for next to nothing.
by nmstar on Sep 28, 2008 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
Their farm system is not strong at the upper levels as was noted in the KC Star a couple weeks ago. In my opinion, the Royals don’t contend before 2010 best case. 2011 is much more likely. Greinke could be gone by then.
by nmstar on Sep 28, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, by 2010 or 2011. Maybe they will feel they have to cut bait by then.
Not now. He is one of the players that fans actually come out to see. He’s been a face of the franchise since they signed him as a teenager. He’s to the Royals what Albert Pujols is to us-their one true genuine bonafide star.
Greinke also suffers from mental illness-which he and the organization have handled quite well. I just can’t see them moving him, and I can’t see him wanting to go anywhere else. KC will give him the money. They paid up for Meche, why wouldn’t they pay up for a much better, much younger pitcher that they developed themselves? Maybe, maybe, for 2 players of Hanley Rameriz caliber they would consider it. You know anyone who has that to spare? Even for a Greinke?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 29, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lop-Sided deal
In KC’s favor. All those position players for one good young starting pitcher? No, thanks. Greinke’s good, but A) he’s not that good, B) one tendon tear and the deal is a bust, and C) Duncan has a better track record with veteran starters.
by Matt Bug on Sep 30, 2008 3:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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