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Arms, Adam, and an Admonition

The news that Carp had an MRI on his shoulder isn’t all that surprising in light of Will Carroll’s recent reports. For a baseball injury novice like me, there’s a whole lot of alphabet soup there but the concern seems to relate to something called plexitis. Now, these articles don’t make a lot of sense to me but there are passages that should concern us.

From Carroll:

The most worrisome aspect of plexitis is that it can cause weakness in the deltoid that can lead to subluxations of the humerus. A humeral subluxation can lead to labral tears, something you don't want happening to your ace. While I admit that I'm speculating here, it's based on a conversation with two physical therapists that I regularly consult with. One suggested the condition based on the symptoms, and the other concurred.
Carroll’s quote and the definition linked above use two words that are bothersome to me: "labral" (as in labrum) and "shoulder." These aren’t the same (not even close) as "bicep strain" and should be a genuine cause of concern for the Cards’ brass as well as its fan base. It’s time for Cards’ fans to acknowledge the possibility that we may never see Chris Carpenter put up meaningful innings again. He’ll be 34 in the first month of next season and has a history of injuries – and not just minor ones. TJ surgeries, problems w/ the labrum. These aren’t fluke injuries for pitchers. It’s entirely possible that Carp will pitch some innings here and there, maybe get 80-100 in a season – giving us hope that he’ll once again be the pitcher he was from 2004 through 06 – while never again being a meaningful contributor to our rotation. If that’s the case, and I sincerely hope it’s not, the Carp extension may become a more egregious albatross than the one given to this guy.

****************************************************************

So, Adam Kennedy wants to be traded, huh? Hell, he’s earned some more playing time w/ his stellar play over the past 2 seasons. Actually, though, it led me to ask myself: "self -- is there any conceivable way that some team might trade for him." My first inclination was that this was laughable. I’ve decided that, though I still don’t find it likely, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility.

As I’ll go into in a few weeks, Adam Kennedy has become an excellent defensive second baseman. He is, w/o a doubt, craptacular offensively but, while his excellent defense doesn’t negate his horrendous offense, it shouldn’t go w/o notice either. It occurred to me that, for this to actually happen, some team is going to have to decide that their defense at the keystone is so bad, and the rest of their offense so good, that they could stomach terrible offense from their 2B as long as he was a huge upgrade defensively.

This isn’t w/o precedent. It seems to me that there’s at least 1 major league team who, this offseason, decided that its defense at SS had been so bad that they were willing to sign this guy as a free agent to shore up their defense up the middle. The team decided his defense was so good that, despite his horrendous offense, they’ve given him 421 PAs so far this year. Setting aside whether or not this was a good decision, is there another team that might make a similar decision this offseason.

Now, that player was a free agent, signed to a 1 year, $2.85 M contract. Well, Kennedy will have 1 year and $4 M left on his contract. Someone would have to trade for him but I’d be willing to take a low-A ball, non-prospect prospect just to get his contract off the books next year. The other team could give us someone they’re going to release after next June’s draft for all I care – making Kennedy essentially a free agent to the team acquiring him.

So which teams might be that desperate for a solid defensive 2B?

Arizona – good chance they’ll lose Hudson; right now Augie Ojeda is the team’s 2B. They could sign Grudzielanek or someone but is Kennedy considerably worse than Ojeda? Still, with the D-backs offense struggling mightily all season, it’s hard to believe that Kennedy would interest them.

The White Sox – Ramirez has been terrible defensively (all my defensive judgments are based on numbers from The Hardball Times). Guillen is a "fundamental baseball" sort of guy so it’s not out of the realm of possibility. But Ramirez’s offense has probably been too good. Now, it’s conceivable that they could take advantage of Ramirez’s offense this year to trade him for something they deem more valuable (3B, pitching, CF?) and replace him w/ a better defensive player. I’d call it possible, but highly improbable.

The Giants – seriously? They have no real 2B but they have so many holes that I can’t see them believing that all they really need is a little better defense up the middle.

Oakland, the Dodgers, and the Royals all will see their 2B become free agents this offseason. The Dodgers will probably replace Kent w/ Blake DeWitt. Oakland – does anyone really think they want a defensive specialist w/ a low OBP at 2B? Me, neither. The Royals – they’ve had a league average defense and have expressed interest in signing Furcal (more of an offensive specialist) to play SS, to then move Aviles to 2B. I’d think it unlikely.

The Mets – worst two defensive 2B (arguably, but in any case – they’re very bad) in the majors are Luis Castillo and Damion Easley. There has been lots written in the NY media about how disenchanted the team is w/ Castillo. The Mets have a lot of offense. Of course, they also have the money to sign Hudson or Grudzielanek but this is a team who, this past offseason, discussed signing David Eckstein and moving to 2B so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that this could happen if they decided not to pony up for Hudson or Grudz.

The point is that I wouldn’t consider trading Kennedy an impossibility, but the skies are going to have to open and the seas are going to have to part for it to happen and the Mets may be the most likely possibility.

****************************************************************

The only thing worse than playing Kennedy in RF and Lopez at 2B (didn’t I just say that Kennedy had turned into an excellent defensive player? Would you believe he’s been worth the 3rd most runs saved among all 2B – despite being basically a part-time player?), is batting Lopez CLEANUP – between Pujols and Glaus, Kennedy against a lefty, and Izturis in the leadoff spot (career OBP vs. lefties -- .303). I’m not one who believes that the lineup order makes a ton of difference but Tony clearly does – and he’s playing Kennedy against a lefty, putting a guy who can’t get on base in the leadoff spot, and separating Pujols and Glaus w/ a guy who was released by the offensively inept Nationals. It might be understandable against a righty – to make the lineup go righty, lefty, righty. Against a lefty it just means 3 righties in a row and the one in the middle is Felipe Lopez.

**************************************************************

Next, this year’s version of Joel Pineiro is…drum roll, please … Felipe Lopez!!!!

Pineiro ERA h/9 bb/9 k/9
career pre-Card 4.50 9.38 2.98 5.92
07 pre-Card 5.03 10.85 3.71 5.29
07 as a Card 3.96 9.75 1.70 5.65
2008 5.24 11.34 2.06 4.71

The team was, apparently, led to believe that the 63.2 innings they received from Pineiro last summer represented a distinct, and permanent, change in ability. Many Cards’ fans told us that Dave Duncan had made such an impact on Pineiro as a pitcher that those 63.2 innings were a better predictor of his ability than were the previous 1030. On that basis, the team signed him to a 2 year, $13M contract -- $7.5 M of which is guaranteed next year to fill one of our rotation spots.

This July, the team signed Felipe Lopez and he’s been terrific at the plate since the acquisition. He’s also played 5 different positions since becoming a Cardinal. Here’s what his numbers look like:

Lopez BA OBP SLG
career pre-Card .258 .325 .396
08 pre-Card .234 .305 .314
08 as a Card .350 .398 .496

Last offseason, the team made the decision that Pineiro’s 63.2 IP were more indicative of his true ability than the previous 1030 innings were. Now, with the team’s 2B situation in limbo, the team is evaluating Lopez’s performance to see what role he might fit (if any) for the team next season. Conspicuously absent from any and all discussions about Lopez’s performance as a Cardinal, however, is credit to Hal McRae for remaking Lopez at the plate. Should we expect Lopez to hit this well next year since McRae will (presumably) be his hitting coach again if he returns?

The point here is not that the team shouldn’t bring Lopez back for 2009. The point is that Lopez’s previous 3421 PAs are more indicative of his true ability than the 128 he’s had as a Cardinal. Hopefully, the organization will not be fooled into thinking that Lopez is now a dramatically different player or that Hal McRae is a miracle worker. Is he a better 2B than Aaron Miles? Perhaps. Should we expect him to be a top of the order (or cleanup) hitter next season? No. He is, at best, a slight improvement over what we had before signing him and, considering his defensive shortcomings, there’s a good chance he’s not even that. Hopefully, we’ve learned our lesson from the Pineiro signing.

***************************************************************

Bernie says that the Cards need to go all-in in the free agent market for pitching. There are lots of pitchers on the market. He mentions Sabathia, Sheets, Jon Garland, Lowe, Lohse, Looper, Dempster, Oliver Perez, Randy Wolf, and Paul Byrd. It’s ironic that he doesn’t want any "el cheapo deals for rehabbing pitchers, medically risky pitchers, broken-down pitchers" yet he, apparently, considers Randy Wolf to be a good option.

What he doesn’t include is any mention of which of these pitchers are worth a 3, 4 or 7 year deal. DeWitt needs to open up the wallet. For whom? He doesn’t say. Which of these is worthy of 4 years and $50 M or more? (crickets) Only 3 of these guys are on the right side of 30 and one will receive a 7 year contract making him the highest paid pitcher in baseball history, one has one of the lowest K rates in the big leagues and the other (Perez) averages nearly 5 BB/9 IP. (Oliver Perez may, actually, be the best bet on this list, however.)

Does anyone really believe Paul Byrd is better than Mitch Boggs or that Mike Mussina might sign w/ the Cards? Apparently Bernie does. Now is not the time to evaluate all these starters, but if the over/under on the number of these pitchers who are worth the contracts they receive is 4, I’m taking the under.

****************************************************************

Lastly, congrats to the Cubs and the Rays. The Rays, particularly, are a tremendous story. I’m hoping they get healthy enough to really challenge in the AL. I’d like to see how well they can do if they’re at close to full strength. And, FWIW, I’m glad yesterday’s Cards game was at Wrigley, rather than in Busch.

0 recs  |  Comment 26 comments

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yeah, what was Bernie thinking?

Paul Byrd? Seriously?! Come one, that is just a dumb idea. I would rather have a reclamation project than Byrd.

And congrats to the Cubs!!!??? treason!!

FYI, Alexei played CF in Cuba, so they probably wouldn’t trade him for a centerfielder.

The NL Central Blog.com

by dunc4life on Sep 21, 2008 1:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My kingdom for Mike Mussina

not that I actually think he will help us win but my man crush on Mike Mussina is only rivaled by my man-crush on Adam Wainwright.

But Mike Mussina isn’t going anywhere. He knows his best chance at 300 wins is 2 more years in New York. If he can get to the 20 win mark this season (win his last two starts), he’ll stand at 270 for his career. That’d be 2 seasons of 15 or 3 years of 10 wins.

I want to see this guy get into the HOF damnit!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 21, 2008 1:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

One of my favorite none Cards.

by Harknights on Sep 21, 2008 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Saw Mussina v. G Maddox

in Baltimore.http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2000-07-13

Talk about seeing two masters at work. Braves got to Moose early, but O’s came back to tie. Moose pitched a CG, despite giving up two in the ninth.

Maddox was just brilliant in the 7 innings he threw.

Game also took about 2 1/2 hours to play.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Sep 21, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also, since it looks like Springer might hang it up after this season,

and he projects to be a type A free agent , do you think we could get him to do a gentleman’s agreement, like we offer him arbitration, and he declines, retiring immediately afterward?

The NL Central Blog.com

by dunc4life on Sep 21, 2008 1:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yup. If he retires, then we do not get any team’s first round pick…unless you want to draft someone out of retirement I guess?

by mtzxc on Sep 21, 2008 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

duh

I don’t know what I was thinking. to be fair, it was 1:30 in the morning

The NL Central Blog.com

by dunc4life on Sep 21, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point should have been

that they shouldn’t bring back Lopez for 2009. If you look at his yearly total (with both teams) they are really right around his norms, so it’s likely just an end of season correction. But beyond that, he’s horrible defensively. I swear, it seems like every game he commits a blunder that costs the team a run or two (like today, not making the double play).

I would rather have a gritty lack of range from Miles than the half-assed defense of Lopez. (Though I’m sure, both will be back…)

Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro

by DiscoJer on Sep 21, 2008 1:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe AK as a piece of a trade?

Maybe a package of our outfielders, minor leagurs and AK will result in a useful trade for some team? I agree that a straight on acquisition of AK seems unlikely. BTW, I do have to commend AK and TLR for their handling of the situation. At least they gave the appearance of being professional.
I am a bit intrigued about Lopez being a super-sub, including pinch hitting. I am not sure if he would go for it.
I know we all wish the entire MIF were fixed, but I’d be ok with just one offensive upgrade in MIF as long as the D is solid. I am a believer that the better D this year has really helped the pitching. It was painful to see Eck’s “out of reach” attempts.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Sep 21, 2008 2:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

offer to pay $1M of AK's contract

as part of the trade. Maybe that’s enough inducement for someone to bite.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Sep 21, 2008 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what to do about the rotation

of the guys bernie mentioned, some are just flat no-way, no-hows

sabathia and sheets are going to cost too much in either money or years, so those two are out

the next group includes garland, lohse, and perez, al of whom will be looking for at least 4 years and around 50+ million; i wouldnt mind having any one of the three, but feel it is unlikely ownership would actually sign any of them

the next group includes older guys, people who wouldnt want to come here anyway, or just people we wouldnt want; this includes byrd, randy johnson, mussina, madduxx, smoltz, glavine, and randy wolf; a few of these guys would be ok, but those just wouldnt come here

the last group is the few who would sign here, may be a bit older, fit duncans style, and wouldnt be looking for a long term deal (prolly 3 years or less); this group includes lowe, dempster, and looper, and if we were to sign one of the three i would hope for lowe

there is one other possible free agent that IF he opts out they need to make a huge effort to sign him, and that is aj burnett;how nice it would have been to go ahead and spend the extra money and sign him when they had the chance

i could also see them making a starter out of mcclellan, but that, imho, would be the only in-house option

as far as felipe lopez, offensively i doubt he would be as bad a comparison as piniero has been as a pitcher, but where would you play him? and if i am am not mistaken, he has to be paid at least 80% of what he was paid last year, or at least offered that much;(it is an old rule where a player cant be cut more than 20%); that means he would be at least a 4 million dollar player, and i dont know that he is worth it; now if i am wrong on that, someone let me know

Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Sep 21, 2008 3:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wrong

Doesn’t apply to free agents, It only applies when arbitration is offered in the first 3 years.

by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 21, 2008 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks

i wasnt sure on who that applied to

Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Sep 21, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dempster's going to get a bigger contract than you think

he’s been outstanding this year — much better than looper or lowe

by chuckb on Sep 21, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carpenter's Contract

Is certainly looking to be a like huge albatross around the neck of the organization. This may be the worst move Jocketty made—especially when he didn’t have to do anything. The Cardinals really need to do a better job signing and developing starting pitchers.

by nmstar on Sep 21, 2008 9:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I suspect

that the Lopez/Kennedy position switch was a thinly-veiled organizational-tanking maneuver designed to give the cards a higher slot in the 2009 draft.

"Never judge a taco by its price" - Dr. Gonzo

by KennyWang on Sep 21, 2008 10:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There is a lot of speculation on Carroll's part...

I don’t think you can defer that its brachial plexitis from the limited information available to thus point. All we have heard is deltoid weakness that hasn’t gotten better. And medical reports from baseball teams are soooo inaccurate that there simply isn’t a point in decoding the faulty information that is usually provided.

As a physical therapist…I would disagree with part of Carroll’s assessment of brachial plexitis. The deltoid isn’t going to do a lot of work holding the shoulder in place. Thats what the rotator cuff does primarily. Now its certainly possible that the rotator cuff is weak because of this issue, but it is a false statement to say that the deltoid weakness will lead to labral tears. Rotator cuff weakness should be more of a concern.

I would also add that weakness of the rotator cuff would be more likely to cause a rotator cuff tear, rather than a labral tear. Certainly, both could happen, but in general, the rotator cuff is essential to a pitcher to slow down his arm speed at the end of his delivery. If its weak, it will get overworked….then injured.

Either way, it doesn’t sound good.

by CrimsonBirdFan on Sep 21, 2008 10:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, there just are not any FA pitchers you want to throw a ton of $$$ at........

C.C, probably is the safest bet, but I would be leary how the Brewers are using him right now… They could care less about him at this point, and it’s not like he can tell them he does not want to pitch. C.C. is in a tough spot.

Ben Sheets? Why throw a ton of cash at Mark Prior North. Talk about injury risk

I said it right when Carp got hurt in 2007. You can not automatically just assume he is going to come back just like 2005 Carp. It’s almost best to get yourself an ace through draft (Porcello) or FA and move on. If Carp comes back it’s icing on the cake. Don’t get caught in Chicago Cub mode with Wood and Prior. You can’t base all your hope on pitchers with injury history. Hell the Cubs wasted a couple years just trying to hang on.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 21, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't think there was anyway

That we would have been able to trade Rolan. Let alone for something meaningfull. It gives me hope that we would might be able to trade Kennedy. Then again, I would be okay if we got coffee and doughnuts for him.

by Evilfrog on Sep 21, 2008 12:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of the Rolen deal,

Is there some instance of a vet who hates/can’t stay healthy in his current job like glaus? Nothing comparable comes to mind, but I’m sure there’s someone out there…

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Sep 21, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops

my first thought was great
my second was of roman turek
my third was maybe we could trade him to a japanese team
my fourth was that this would make a great secondary thread to come up with the most amusing equivalent value in trade for Kennedy

perhaps Kennedy for the Billy goat curse
or
kennedy for the financing to stage a community theater version of “No, No, Nanette”

by vances law on Sep 21, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

houston, great post.

I think, as the season winds down, we should have a cyber-round of cyber-applause for our contributors here at VEB. Trying to come up with 1000-1500 words of interesting stuff to say, twice- or thrice-weekly, at a site full of discerning baseball snobs is a challenge, to say the least.

There have been some nasty trollish comments in the last month or so and they only made me think that the quality of posts from the regular contributors here is consistenty high.

I do agree with the notion that AK will require us to absorb some of his salary in any trade. I imagine houstoncardinal realized that and was just calculating who might take AK in the absence of a full discount. I guess the other piece to that trade puzzle is who might have an opening and another player widely perceived as overpaid that THEY can’t move either (e.g., who has the Glaus to our Rolen?). Adam’s demand to be traded reminded me of Kip Wells kvetching last year about not getting enough innings to reach his bonus on the last day. I was hoping there was a tongue-in-cheek element there, but I think it was meant seriously.

I hope daily that Miles will get the nod over Lopez for MIF backup. I think a Miles/Barden/Mather/Barton bench would be a thing of beauty.

Not sure why you felt compelled to go into Carp’s medical condition. I mean, instead of speculating, we could just wait for the forthright, fully informative, and reliable status report from the medical staff. That should be coming out any day now . . . .

by tom s. on Sep 22, 2008 3:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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