Getting Ramirez...no not that Ramirez, or that one.
by RunninRedbird on Sep 20, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
37 comments
Ok, we all know that the Cards need some middle infield help and Mo has already said that will be one of their priorities in the offseason. Brian Roberts and Robby Cano have been mentioned here as possible options to go after. Personally, I think Cano would be the better option of the two.
But I'm going to throw out a name that I haven't seen mentioned yet on VEB. (and if it has and I missed it I apologize). Would it be out of the question for the Cards to pursue a trade with the ChiSox for Alexei Ramirez? The guy is in his first year in the league after playing in Cuba for seven years then defecting. His slash line is .297/.320/.483 with an OPS of .803. He's also got some decent power with 19 homers.
Ramirez has three years left on his contract and is earning about $1.1 million per. He has played mostly at 2B for the ChiSox this season, but says he's most comfortable at SS. The Cards just happen to have a second baseman who says he wants to be traded and just played one hell of a game in Chicago yesterday (yes, still hard to believe, but that was Adam Kennedy going 4-for-5 with 5 RBI's) The Sox look like they are going to need another 1B because it seems Konerko's finest days are behind him. Would a trade like AK, Dunc/Mather, and a prospect (not Rasmus) be too much? If the Sox decide to make Swisher their permanent 1B, I would think a trade like Kennedy and Schumaker/Mather could do it.
I think Ramirez has a much better upside then say a Roberts. He's cheaper, fairly comparable offensively, only 27, and could play either MIF spot. So, is this out of the question? Thoughts?
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Why would the sox trade their starting 2B/SS for next year
for AK? lol
by FunkeeC on Sep 20, 2008 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking of AK
as a possible backup for them. Juan Uribe has played decently this season and probably has enough in the tank for next year. Kennedy says he wants to play everyday, so let him go somewhere that he can fight for the starting role. Even if AK is still with us next year, I don’t see him being our starter at 2B.
Delgado an MVP candidate!........seriously!?
by RunninRedbird on Sep 20, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am a supporter of this idea
I just don’t see a package of AK, Dunc/Mather, Prospect not named Rasmus getting it done. I do think that if Dunc comes back healthy and has a monster ST, then it is a possibility. Of course I think it is highly likely that if Dunc has a monster ST then he is our starting LF next year. Perhaps a trade of Anderson (they have to have a replacement for AJ soon, do they have a good catcher in that system?) and one of our hopefully healthy OFs next spring will get it done. I doubt it, but like I have said before, I can hope for Ramirez.
Getting them to take AK would almost be too much to hope for.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Sep 20, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i love this idea
not the trade package, just Alexei Ramirez. I think that he is the perfect answer to one of our MI problems, but would take a decent amount to acquire. Maybe we could include Freese/Craig in this package, since Crede will definitely not be back with them, and Fields, their 3b prospect, had a mediocre season at AAA. I have no idea what the ChiSox need past a 3 bagger for the future, so I don’t know what they would be asking for.
Still, I think pursuing Alexei, who can also play centerfield, should be Mo’s prime target in a trade this offseason. Come on, someone who can play second, short, AND center?! LaRussa would plotz!
The NL Central Blog.com
by dunc4life on Sep 20, 2008 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh, and maybe we could get away with trading Ak to them if...
we were willing to eat almost his entire salary.
The NL Central Blog.com
by dunc4life on Sep 20, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was looking around on southsidesox
and I noticed a general tone: GM Kenny Williams has almost completely gutted the farm system. Would they be willing to take a bunch of B-level prospects (Jay, Motte, Craig, etc.) or do they really want 1 decent prospect in return.
I saw on Cot’s contracts that their backup is Toby Hall, whose contract is up after this season (he does have an option on it, though). Maybe they would take Brian Anderson and have AJ be a mentor to him (no, not on how to be a complete dick, how to be a decent catcher) next year, so he can take over after ‘10 when AJ’s contract is up, or they could trade AJ in a year.
I couldn’t find a decent catcher in the Sox’s system, but then again, I’m no expert on socks sox. Also, would they want another player on their team named Bryan Anderson?
The NL Central Blog.com
by dunc4life on Sep 20, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way I'm clicking a hyperlink named dick
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Sep 20, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJ is the LAST person
to mentor anyone in anything!
by cardsgirl95 on Sep 21, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We missed out on Alexei
no chance they trade him now. He’s cheap and talented for years to come.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 20, 2008 1:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
and he’s tabbed to be somewhere in their middle infield as a starter next year (either ss or 2b).
They’ll be losing Cabrera this offseason and have zero interest in re-signing him.
Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
by Tackle Box on Sep 20, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If AK is traded...
It’ll be for a mediocre minor league player without much a future (does Luis Pedermo have a brother?)….and we’ll have to pay at LEAST $3 million of the salary. I realize the proposal was with one of the spare outfielders, and thats fair enough, but there can’t possibly a single team in the league that is willing to play AK more than the cardinals have been…..can there? I think we’ll all get our wish, and he’ll be DFA’d, about 8 months too late. Kennedy, however, is in for a rude awakening this offseason, when he’ll find out that he is not one of the best 30 second basemen in the league.
Nick Stavinoah = John Gall
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Sep 20, 2008 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pipe dream
The general national populace may not have noticed Alexei Ramirez, but the only party that matters is the team that has him—and believe me, the White Sox know what they have. They have him slotted in as their starting shortstop next season with O-Cab leaving.
He’s cheap, he’s productive, and he’s kinda young. You don’t get to trade Adam Kennedy for young, cheap, productive players.
He would probably require Rasmus + another good prospect, at least. Not happening.
by mojowo11 on Sep 20, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok,
so I realize I was being optimistic with my trade package, but that wasn’t the main point of the post. Trade packages are adjustable and always up for debate. We all know out of the potential options for MIF’s, that Alexei is the most appealing. What I was trying to throw out there is if he would even be a realistic option for the Cards to try and pursue…and sadly, it seems like there is a slim possibilty of actually landing him.
Delgado an MVP candidate!........seriously!? Wait Ryan Howard is now too!?...Ah WTF?!?!
by RunninRedbird on Sep 20, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
So I have to admit that when I first read the title, I still had no clue what Ramirez you were talking about. Alexi was the LAST Ramirez that came to mind. In order of who I thought of: Hanley, Manny, Aramis, Haracio, Edwar, and Max.
by mtzxc on Sep 20, 2008 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who would play 2B for the Sox?
Kennedy? They would downgrade at 2B in order to get Mather and a prospect? It’s not out of the question but it assumes that Kennedy becomes their starting 2B. Again, it’s not out of the question (as I’ll discuss tomorrow) but I wouldn’t bet on it.
by chuckb on Sep 20, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus
Rasmus did not have a year that warrants promotion to the big league. If he was just feeling sorry for himself, I say get rid of him. He is unproven, and has been unhappy with the organization. Maybe now is the time to get the best value for him.
by Remember Kenny B on Sep 20, 2008 7:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In Lunhow’s recent statements, it seems that the organization and Rasmus get along just fine. Now Tony and Rasmus…that is a different story that no one is certain of. Why trade a young stud just because he had a year that was filled with injuries? It’s not as if Rasmus lost all of his tools…he just came back to soon after hurting his knee. Also, keep in mind that the current outfield is filled with players who are older and most who had career years. Ankiel is a free agent after next season and Ludwick is no certainty to repeat… Rasmus is a proven prospect who had his first ever bump in the road. Trading him away would just get us back to the days of Walt Jockety: trading away young players for the win now attitude…not for the win now and in the future mold. Baseball is a changing environment, teams are becoming more reliable on home grown talent. Why shouldn’t the Cardinals?
by mtzxc on Sep 20, 2008 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I hear the word unproven associated with a prospect one more time
I may go on a rampage. Every player in effing baseball was “unproven” at some point or another. That argument is a cop-out (and a non-nonsensical one at that).
by azruavatar on Sep 21, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
additionally
it implies that some are “proven” which means, of course, that they’ve done something of import IN THE PAST. What does that tell us about what they’ll do next year or 3 years from now? In most cases…nothing. Joel Pineiro “proved” himself over 63.2 innings last year. However, what was also proven was his lack of success over his first 1030 innings. Why do we necessarily associate the word “unproven” with “worse?” Why can “unproven” not mean better? This idea that we have to go with a “proven” player who, in all likelihood, will be worse than the “unproven” player but we choose him b/c he is “proven” is absurd!
Skip is “proven” yet very limited in what he offers. Should we never play Rasmus b/c Skip is proven and Colby isn’t? Kip Wells was proven. Brett Tomko was proven. Deivi Cruz was proven and so was Tino Martinez. Scott Rolen was proven and so was Cesar Izturis. Free agents on the market — Paul Byrd is proven and so is Randy Wolf. Either of those sound like solutions?
“Unproven” doesn’t mean “worse.” Sometimes, “proven” is worse. We need to figure out how to separate the words “unproven” and its negative connotation.
by chuckb on Sep 21, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UNPROVEN
Ok, how about this approach….Rasmus is about the same point in his career as Reyes was a few years ago. I hear people all the time on this blog say we should have traded him then, and gotten maximum value. Since Rasmus was not hitting AAA pitching before he was hurt, he has low odds of being Albert the second. I don’t think we should give him away, but if he gets us key players, I am not against it. but I also hope next year at this time he is a Cardinal and you are sending me an email telling me I am a fool because he is hitting .340 with 30 homers.
by Remember Kenny B on Sep 21, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but Rasmus was hitting AAA pitching before he was hurt
he got off to that terrible start, but for about a month before he got hurt he was tearing it up down there. It isn’t so hard to believe he had adjusted and was going to continue pounding the ball.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Sep 21, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another difference worth noting:
Rasmus is a top five prospect according to some publications.
The highest I ever remember seeing Reyes was in the low to mid 50s.
Top 5 prospects from Baseball America tend to have very fruitful careers. I can’t be sure, because I haven’t looked much at them, but guys who peak in the 50s probably aren’t quite as successful (and besides, Reyes has been very good with Cleveland, so it’s certainly not that Reyes sucks.)
by mtalken on Sep 21, 2008 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fields
Just an idea. Probably a bad one at that, but… everyone around here on VEB or some people anyway feel that schu can play 2nd base. Can Josh Fields? I know… he’s a third basemen/corner outfielder, but does he have any experience playing other infield spots? If he could play 2nd then would Glaus be a good enough player to get him? I realize that Fields is still considered a prospect, but with Crede gone and the Sox down on Fields can we satisfy them for a year with Glaus?
by flipthebird on Sep 20, 2008 9:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the White Sox
would do that trade in a heartbeat.
Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
by Tackle Box on Sep 20, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Fields
The White Sox are not even sure Fields is a 3B. They tried him in LF last year and he struggled. Josh Fields has zero chance of playing 2B, not going to happen ever………..
Duncan- What? There is talk he may never play again? let alone get back the power he had. Duncan will not be part of a trade until it is proven he can play.
Alexi Ramirez is not going to be traded for the proposed group…. Why? It makes zero sense, by all accounts his best defensize position is SS, which he would be playing if Orlando Cabrear was not on the team. I don’t think Orlando will be on the Sox next year. Then his next best position is CF… He never really played 2B, and he is playing because his bat is better than Uribe’s.
It would be ridiculos for the Sox to trade Ramirez when he can hit like he does and play 3 positions where the offense he put up is perfectly fine for 2B, SS, and CF…………
It will take more than offered to get Alexi… Also he is cheap as hell, so I don’t see why they would trade.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 21, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is wrong with him?
Fields hit 20 homers in the majors just 2 years ago. What exactly shocked his stock value?
by flipthebird on Sep 22, 2008 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
defensively the Sox seem to be up in the air with Fields.
His offense if fine, but they seem to wonder about him as a 3B…. Thats one reason he was left at AAA this year… They wanted him to play as much 3B as possible to work on his defense.
Last year they played Fields in LF to get him AB’s since his bat was good. He was not a very good left fielder last year.
Trust me he does not have the abiltiy to play 2B. Watch him, he can’t cover enough ground. He is a 1B/3B.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 22, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade clause blows that one up
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Sep 25, 2008 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
er
half of it went through:
trade clause blows that one up because Glaus can’t be just traded. Also consider should Wallace stick at third, Glaus does in fact fit right into the organizations needs. His contract ends as Wallace prospects to hit the team.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Sep 25, 2008 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put together a good package
and just toss AK into the nearest garbage can instead. Sox arent gonna want anything to do with AK, but that doesnt mean we cant still go after Alexei
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Sep 21, 2008 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am not saying the Cards couldn't go after him, but the package on this post ain't gonna do it.....
Alexi is tradeable, but his value is high to the White Sox…………
1. Most important he is cheap
2. He is still youngish will be 27 next season (same as B. Ryan & J. Mather)
3. He plays 2B, SS, & CF (SS & CF are his best positions…… up the middle D is very key)
Not saying the Cards couldn’t make an offer, but the above should be laughable if you are the Sox…..
by ICbirdfan on Sep 21, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
You have to be really careful when it comes to buying in on a player on a high. We very well could be witnessing his career year. His numbers could very well plummet not just because of that, but a shift in ballparks. His contract does limit the risk of absorbing him, but it doesn’t limit the risk of losing top prospects over.
The most I’d do is talk to them about their organizational needs and see if we have the assets to help and throw together a 4-5 player package that may help them now and down the road, but I wouldn’t touch our top ten prospects, unless they’re in the middle of opportunity costs.
But I agree, the above package isn’t going to do it.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Sep 25, 2008 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the kind of player the Cardinals should have been willing to take a risk on.
Not now as a trade, because why would the White Sox want to give him up? He was out there for the taking—and I’d bet my first born scouts looked at him and said no way he was a player with the slight build he has-and how old is he really, and where does he play the field?
He’s had a good season; he’s a valuable commodity-he’s valuable to the White Sox. They took the risk-they earned the reward. They won’t trade him at all.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 21, 2008 10:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
better with cano
They would be much more likely to get a guy like cano. They would be interested in duncan and mather for D.H. and could izturis as a solid middle infield backup.
by redbird34 on Sep 22, 2008 9:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sounds good
it sounds good and truely adam kennedy isnt a good long term player
by jacdcfan18 on Sep 25, 2008 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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