september shuffle
not that it matters much, but i didn’t see anything wrong with the bullpen management yesterday afternoon. lot of unhappy campers in the game thread, but i didn’t spot the flaw in how tony played it. with the cards ahead 5-4 in the 6th inning he brought in villone to start the inning against dunn, who can't hit southpaws ---- .189 avg against them this year and .235 for his career, with severely diminished power. villone has been extremely good vs lhb this year --- .181 / .299 / .306 line before that at-bat. i can’t fault the mgr for relying on a guy w/ those stats. nor can i fault him for reyling on mcclellan, who came in one batter later and gave up the game-tying homer, yielded the go-ahead run the next inning. the kid’s been good all year, to the point that a large chunk of the fan base used to scream at tony back in june / july when he didn’t use mcclellan and turned to franklin or izzy instead. yesterday it was mcclellan’s turn to scuffle. blame that on tony if you want . . . . . my gripe w/ tony's decision-making lies in the rotation --- his continued use of pineiro --- rather than the bullpen. the cards will end up giving about 27 starts to joel and mulder this year, but 0 to anthony reyes, whom tony ushered out the door. that's the type of decision-making i fault la russa for.
the cards announced their september callups: barden, ryan, mark johnson, jimenez, motte, and kinney. i’m glad to see motte get his chance; he was unhittable after july 1, notching nearly 3 times as many strikeouts (49) as hits allowed (18). i’d like to see boggs and garcia added as well, if only to give them a chance to hang around the veterans and get a look at the hitters they’ll be facing soon (we can hope) from the big-league rotation.
i did a little quick research and came up with an all-september-callup team for the franchise. when did september roster expansions begin, anyway? i have a vague sense that it didn’t happen until after ww2, but i’d love it somebody could step up w/ a real answer and a source. in any case, i took my survey back to about 1960 or so, because that’s about as far back as baseball-reference’s game-by-game logs go; prior to that it’s impossible to tell which month a guy’s at-bats came in. here’s the team i picked --- feel free to quibble w/ my selections:
- c: eli marrero, 1997. called up after belting 20 homers at louisville, then in its last season as the cards’ triple A affiliate. he made 13 starts for the cards in september and hit .244 / .271 / .422, with a couple of homers.
- 1b: eduardo perez, 1999. keith hernandez was ineligible for inclusion, by one day; he was called up on august 31, 1974. in essence, he was a september call-up, making 8 starts in that month as the cards tried (unsuccessfully) to chase down the pirates. he hit .294 / .415 / .441 in 34 at-bats . . . . dmitri young ’96 was similarly ineligible, and he wasn’t particularly good anyway (.241 avg, .241 slugging). so we’re left w/ eduardo, who already had nearly 1000 big-league at-bats by 1999 but was relegated to quadruple A status after an off-year in cincinnati. he spent the whole year at memphis and slugged .524, then added a .344 / .462 / .500 line for the cardinals in 32 september at-bats.
- 2b: jeff doyle, 1983. geronimo pena was a september call-up at this position in 1990, but he wasn’t very good --- .603 ops in 11 starts. doyle started 9 games for the cards after they faded from the race in mid-september 1983 and hit .297 / .316 / .432 in 37 at-bats, with a pair of triples padding his slugging avg. he would never play again in the big leagues.
- ss: wilson delgado, 2002. i really wish i didn’t have to use this guy, but the only other candidate i spotted was luis ordaz --- and he didn’t hit 2 homers in 20 september at-bats and slug .600, as delgado did.
- 3b: ken reitz, 1972. a 31st-round pick who moved extremely rapidly, reitz hit .290 in high A ball as a 19-year-old and reached triple A tulsa at age 21, where he batted .279 with 15 homers. that fall he got to st louis and started 20 games, batting .359 / .370 / .410. his batting average during that cup of coffee in 1972 would equal his career slugging average . . . . .
- of: bernard gilkey, 1990. the university city grad went undrafted and spent 4 years in class A, batting in the neighborhood of .230 during that time. but he put it all together in 1989 at double A, and by 1990 was getting his feet wet in st louis. he started 17 games that september at hit .297 / .375 / .484.
- of: stan musial, 1941. predates the BR database, and perhaps the current roster-expansion rules. musial was added to the roster to replace an injured player (enos slaughter, i’m pretty sure) on september 13, with 13 games left in the season and the cardinals trailing brooklyn by 1 game. The Man started 12 of the 13 remaining games and hit .426 / .449 / .574 with one home run, helping the cards stay in it until the final weekend of the season.
- of: jd drew, 1998. he’d only been in the system for 3 months, having been drafted in june 1998. he made 8 starts in the outfield and hit .417 / .463 / .972 with 5 homers, the best hr total i could find for any september callup.
- p: andy rincon, 1980: made 4 september starts for a dead-end team and was very impressive: 3 wins, 31 innings, 2.61 era, and a 3:1 k/bb ratio. he opened the following year in the rotation and was even better --- 3-1, 1.77 --- but got hurt; in 1982 he wasn’t the same pitcher, walking 25 men in 40 innings. his career was over at age 23.
- p: jose jimenez, 1998: made 3 starts and won them all, piling up groundballs in the process; in one game 18 of 23 batted balls he yielded were grounders.
- p: bob tewksbury, 1989. he was 28 years old and seemed destined for quad-A purgatory; despite a good season for the yankees in 1986 (9-5, 3.31 era) nobody believed in this guy due to his monumentally unimpressive stuff (fastball in the low to mid 80s). the cardinals were chasing the cubs in sept ’89 and got within half a game of the lead at one point; tewksie took over a slot that largely had belonged to ted power. he threw a complete-game shutout in his second game and was a fixture in the st louis rotation for the next 5 seasons, finishing 3d in the cy young voting in 1992.
- p: al olmsted, 1980: this guy did well enough in 5 september starts (2.86 era) to get noticed by the padres, who took him as partial payment for rollie fingers that december. he never pitched again in the big leagues.
- rp: pat perry, 1985 and scott terry, 1987: can’t use todd worrell ’85, for the same reason i can’t use hernandez --- he was called up on august 31, specifically to qualify him for the playoffs in case the cards made it (which they did). but herzog fearlessly turned to another rookie bullpenner in september ’85, pat perry, who made his big-league debut in a crucial game at shea on sept 12 and threw 4 shutout innings, enabling the cards to rally from a 6-0 deficit (they would ultimately lose 7-6). pretty finished the month with a 1-0 record in 6 games covering 12.1 scoreless innings, in which he allowed just 3 hits and 3 walks. as for terry, he also got extensive use in the midst of a pennant race, appearing in 11 games, mostly to protect leads in the 7th / 8th innings. herzog didn’t baby young players the way tony does; he’d throw ’em right in there. . . . terry spent another 4 very useful years on the st louis staff.
game time tonight is 8:40 CDT; the astros have crept to within 2 games of st louis. . . .
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136 comments
Comments
What a disappointment.....
To watch this team just fall apart.
I could live with not making the playoffs, but they way we are going about that, kills me.
We’re about to the point of seeing what the youngsters can do. I’d call up Boggs and Garcia and get them some innings. I’d pitch Motte as much as possible, and I’d let Barden and Lopez handle most of the MI duties. Mather should play quite a bit as well.
by SoonerfanTU on Sep 2, 2008 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Garcia isn't pitching anymore
they’ve already said he was being shut down due to too many innings.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mather may be done for the year too
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Sep 2, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Sep 2, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aren't we all day-to-day?
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been playing through the pain
for over thirty years now.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Sep 2, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bloggers said...
… Stan the Man wasn’t ready in ’41. Needed more seasoning.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on Sep 2, 2008 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He sure as shit
didn’t earn it.
I think I’m deflated enough that the only thing that will cheer me up is a 12 game win streak or (apparently just as realistically) Rasmus getting called up.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Sep 2, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How could you expect a former pitcher
with a shoulder injury to be ‘ready’ so quickly? Sure, he mashed early on as an OF’er but it wouldn’t hurt him to get another year at Rochester.
Plus, an extra few months down there will get us an extra year of control over him.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if rasmus had hit like musial in AAA
(.379 BA, 26 HR in 87 games) he’d have been called up. Especially if there was a war going on.
Heck, if Rasmus had hit like Nick Stavinoha he probably would have been called up. Instead, he hit like So Taguchi, spent half the season hurt, and didn’t get called up.
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 2, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Especially if there wa a war going on"
I guess it’s all a matter of opinion, but some might disagree with that….
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
guess mlb players didn’t start leaving until 1942.
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 2, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
Actually, that hadn’t crossed my mind. I was more so making a comment that there is a war going on right now, granted there’s no draft and some might agree or disagree that its an actual war, but that was the point of my little joke.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today, the bloggers...
would be clamoring for him to come up and play, and Larussa would keep playing Felipe Lopez in LF.
by tarakas on Sep 2, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaRussa would also keep trotting
Emil Verban at 2B, while playing Schoendienst out of position in CF.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This doesn't answer your question
completely about the September roster expansion, but it comes the closest to talking about how rosters have evolved in the last 60 years or so: right here I found it quite interesting.
by tbell61 on Sep 2, 2008 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its been a rough weekend
That’s for sure.
by Evilfrog on Sep 2, 2008 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who do you think will be the three players
taken off the 40 man list to make room for Barden, Johnson and Kinney? I’d bet on Rico Washington for certain.
by tbell61 on Sep 2, 2008 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the thought was they could do it by moving
Izzy, Duncan and Barton to the 60 day DL
of course they may wait to hear on Mather and keep their options open on Barton
Plus Parisi is hurt and on the AAA 7 day DL and could potentially be moved to the 60 day DL as well
by vances law on Sep 2, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not bryan anderson
let him get a little bit of time at 2b and catcher
and all things considered
maybe we should have kept eckstein and did what az did and tried him at second
not bagging on miles or anything
Come on 2009!
by benstl on Sep 2, 2008 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to get Anderson some innings in centerfield.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong Tackle Box
I think we should try him in the relief pitcher role……….
Chris Perez and Motte used to catch and look at how good they are, just throwing gas……
I think Anderson should get some innings in relief.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 2, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you want him to pitch in a relief role
wouldn’t it make more sense to start converting him to starter? It’s gonna happen anyway….
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well technically
They were going to have Looper go back to relief if there was a modicum of health because he had “learned things that could help him” so we should have him pitching in relief so he could convert to a starter so he could learn how to relieve.
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .266 .365 .391
Skip Schumaker: $Free .308 .369 .426
by joker24 on Sep 2, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that makes sense.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fun post
Easy to tell a fair amount of research went into it, too.
Andy Rincon! I hadn’t thought of him in ages. He started so well. Seemed to have such a promising future. It can all go downhill so quickly for young pitchers.
I recall Herzog lamenting the fact that Scott Terry was not eligible for the 1987 postseason roster. He was quite good that month, in which a very good Cardinals team was hanging on for dear life.
by Youneverknow on Sep 2, 2008 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and on the rotation
dead on
ive always felt like brad thompson and anthony reyes deserved the leashes other pitchers got
reyes since leaving has 30.1 innings and has given up 7 earned runs
thompson wins when he starts
he can put up league average and has earned the chance to
if you take out 2 really bad innings hes a sub 4 era for the year
(he had 2 games of 1 inning, 4 run baseball, yikes)
i dont see where pinero, for all the extra cash, was a marked improvement over thompson
Come on 2009!
by benstl on Sep 2, 2008 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brad Thompson
OK. So in his starts, his peripherals don’t look great. 4.45 ERA compared to 3.89 when relieving, 1.4 K:BB compared to 1.68 when relieving. 1.47 WHIP compared to 1.39 when relieving. However, he has gone 8-5 (for a 61.5% win ) in the last two seasons. The Cardinals, during that time, have a 50.7 win . He’s 11 above average. Whether it is the fact that he pitches just well enough to win, or the guys in the lineup rally behind him, or whatever…he’s proven he can win games at least.
In the minors, he has an 18-7 W-L record, for a 72% win %…so it’s not like the fact he can win came out of nowhere.
I agree…give him a shot.
by stlfan on Sep 2, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haven't we moved beyond w% in evaluating pitchers?
by azruavatar on Sep 2, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Johan Santana
is such a bust.
I’ll take Livan, thank you very much.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Sep 2, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Usually yes...
But, if someone goes out and just wins…it’s hard to argue against them. I will say that there might be better pitchers out there…and probably will be…but Bob Gibson used to talk about how if his team gave him 8 runs to work with, he could give up 7 (not that he wanted to) and if his team gave him 1 run to work with that day, then he could not give up any.
I don’t mind a pitcher having that philosophy. I don’t know if Brad Thompson does or does not, but he has a history of simply going out and winning games for a team that I love to see go out and win…in any fashion.
by stlfan on Sep 2, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as I said in yesterday's game thread
$10.5M to get rid of Pineiro and AK is money well spent
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Sep 2, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed....they serve no purpose espicially in their last year under contract.
by ICbirdfan on Sep 2, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the zen of a nicely balanced bench is important to tony...
definitely need to keep them around so pinata can give up 3 run bombs in relief and kennedy can gidp
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Sep 2, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing against Anthony Reyes
But I can’t wait till he starts getting the results of how he’s been pitching so I can stop hearing this. He’s pitched brutally, 4.1 K/9, 3.2 BB/9 and it’s not like he’s Brandon Webb getting groundballs. He’s going to end up sucking if he pitches as he has. Please look past 30 innings of fluke.
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .266 .365 .391
Skip Schumaker: $Free .308 .369 .426
by joker24 on Sep 2, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brutally?
Brutally is Joel Pineiro. Reyes has pitched ‘league average’.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he hasn't
xFIP of 4.99.
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .266 .365 .391
Skip Schumaker: $Free .308 .369 .426
by joker24 on Sep 2, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and AL league average K/9 is 6.58
but he has (just barely) been above league average in walks (3.31). Yay?
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 2, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
joker, i think the fluke is his low k rate
that’s probably going to regress upward toward his career avg of 6.5 k/9 or so. obviously he can’t sustain an era of 2.10 with these peripherals, and nobody’s expecting him to. but he seems capable of sustaining a 4.50 era in the dh league with those periphs -- which would translate to 4.25 or lower on a national league team. ie, a solid #3 starter making the league minimum. valuable player.
by lboros on Sep 2, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be....if he wasn't throwing 86-91
His stuff is gone. And honestly I think looking through some of the gameday stuff that he’s mixing in like an 84 mph 2-seamer too. His change is like 77-81 and then there’s this group of pitches at 84-85.
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .266 .365 .391
Skip Schumaker: $Free .308 .369 .426
by joker24 on Sep 2, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the slurve still sucks badly
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .266 .365 .391
Skip Schumaker: $Free .308 .369 .426
by joker24 on Sep 2, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, we'll see
per fangraphs his fastball is averaging 90.3 mph for cleveland, which is 1 mph faster than it was for st louis in 2006-07. i’m with you that his ERA is misleadingly low, but i don’t buy that he is destined to get bombed out of the league. i think he’s gonna establish himself as a serviceable pitcher.
by lboros on Sep 2, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But where?
His options are up. If Cleveland doesn’t put him in the 25 man roster next year isn’t he a Free Agent?
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 2, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would they not put him on the 25-man roster?
by lboros on Sep 2, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about not making rotation
When the trade first happened there was talk in Cleveland he was just a filler for the rest of the year and wouldn’t even make the team next year
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 2, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have 6 guys right now
with Lee and Carmona being the only locks for next years rotation.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, here's the presumed conversation Cleveland had with him....
“Anthony, we are happy to have you here, we think you’re a better pitcher than you’ve shown, we’d like you to replace Paul Byrd.”
Anthony says, “Yeah, I can do that. I can replace Paul Byrd ’til the end of the year.”
“Oh, and Anthony, if you do a good job, we may ask you to fill in for Jake until he gets back in June, 2009”
Anthony says, “Yeah, I think I can help there too. Until June? Um, then what? You want me to be Cliff Lee?”
All kidding aside, if he pitches well, they’ve got a bargain for next year. If he doesn’t, he shown enought that he’d be worth more in a deal for Cleveland than he was for us….Cleveland has a Pittsburgh situation where most of their good young starters are lefty’s—so it’s one place he has a slight advantage for now.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 2, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and I'm referring to their AA and AAA starters, not the ML ones.
When I said they are all leftys……
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 2, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's odd
because Gameday had his last start with the early innings fastball sitting between 92-94, with the late innings fastball sitting between 91-93.
Are there adjustments that should be made based on each stadium? In fact, the STO television gun has had his fastball living at 93 in all his starts.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one start I don't look at *huff*
He’s thrown 5 games with the Indians
Game 1: 87-91 with the aforementioned 84-85 mph slop
Game 2: 90-94 with some 87-89s
Game 3: 87-93
Game 4: 86-91 with the 84-85 slop
Game 5: yeah 90-95 the whole time
Games 1 and 4 were on the road in Toronto/Baltimore. I wouldn’t rule it out that Tor/Bal guns are both slow but it seems more likely that Cleveland is hot. Like I said, I wonder what Kalk’s park-by-park corrections are. Until then I’ll say I may have spoken too soon…
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .266 .365 .391
Skip Schumaker: $Free .308 .369 .426
by joker24 on Sep 2, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gameday uses cameras rather than a radar gun.
by greenback06 on Sep 2, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reyes and pineiro
For me, the reyes and pineiro problems conflagrate into the major issue I have with LaDuncan. I don’t buy the argument that Reyes will somehow morph into Danny Haren. The peripherals from his NL and AL time don’t pop the eyes. However, as LB points out, Reyes is a solid league average pitcher making league minimum. Instead of giving Reyes a rotation spot, the team opted to overpay for Joel Pineiro, a rough equivalent of Reyes (albeit more experienced). Anthony made about $400k in 2008. Pineiro made $5.5 mill in 2008 and is slated for $7.5 mill in 2009. This was caused by the irrational hatred LaDuncan bear for Reyes I’ll never understand it.
Next year’s rotation should contain one of Garcia or Boggs. If they go out and sign another journeyman starter to a bloated contract instead of making the smart move, I’ll be hugely disappointed.
by jjray on Sep 2, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
um..
It’s not like Pineiro has been Duncans pet this year. They’ve been more than willing to pull him in the 5th, banish him to the bullpen, and Im sure they would have sent him to memphis at one point if the had options.
by Evilfrog on Sep 2, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
um ... so what!
The point made was the decision to sign a vet to a bloated 2 year contract rather than plug in a cheap AR to the same rotation spot was stupid. Pineiro’s contract is hung around our necks regardless of how he is used.
by jjray on Sep 2, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how is piniero's contract dave duncan's fault? or tlr's?
doesn’t the gm make the decision about contract length, etc.?
he wouldn’t be the only pitcher that the manager/pitching coach didn’t see eye to eye with the front office on.
by tom s. on Sep 3, 2008 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
It’ll happen.
Still not anywhere near efficient with his pitches. 110 pitches in a 7 inning game where you give up 1 run and 1 walk? That is ALOT of deep counts.
by SoonerfanTU on Sep 2, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG! He took 15.71 pitches per inning..........
How DARE he even step on the mound. Anthony, take your shit and go home….Cleveland is just stupid.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 2, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Of course YOU’D miss the point, I’d expect no less.
That is alot of pitches for only 1 walk, 1 ER, and 7 hits. ALOT.
by SoonerfanTU on Sep 2, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As you did mine. It STILL works out to 15.71 pitches per inning.
He preferred to battle than walk guys. That’s what you have to do to compete. I’ll take 7 innings and 110 pitches from my starter anytime if he keeps me in the game.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 2, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some call it battle
I seem to remember him having difficulty putting guys away last year. He’d get into a favorable count, but the hitter would just keep fouling off pitches. So, he wasn’t striking guys out or getting them to ground (or in this case fly) out. All it was doing was running up his pitch count and increased the likelihood the hitter would eventually get something to hit.
Nevertheless, I don’t think you want your starting pitcher “battling” every hitter. It definitely happens when you’ve got a good match-up, but is really unfavorable to the pitcher to have to battle each hitter.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, tackle box, you AREN'T battling every hitter if you are throwing 15.71 pitches per inning.
There were plenty he sent away on 2-3 pitches.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 2, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is your fascination with.....
pitches per inning? That doesn’t mean squat.
Fact is, most guys can go 9 innings on that many pitches, if they pitch well. Reyes has always struggled with pitch count, and I think his pitch total from last game follows that path.
by SoonerfanTU on Sep 2, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post
Great post.
Dead on about Larussa not using Reyes.
Also, Whitey would throw young players right into it. In fact, he’d do that with anyone. One of his beliefs (according to him) was that if you didn’t trust a player in a crucial in-game situation, then you shouldn’t have them on the team.
by tarakas on Sep 2, 2008 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i was thinking about a couple of those guys from 85, coleman and worrell, tony probably wouldnt trust either enough to play them
i was also thinking about 87, when whitey played lindeman an awful lot for the little he was producing
so i guess it is one of those ‘sometimes it works, sometimes not’ situations
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.
by bigcardsfan5 on Sep 2, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"If you're good enough, you're old enough"
Love the quote, don’t know who said it though
by Woodwork on Sep 2, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
about TLR’s bullpen moves. K-Mac just got rocked, that’s all. “A bump in the road,” as the cliche goes. He’s young; it’s gonna happen – same for Chris Perez. You just roll with it and hope that there are many more good days than bad days. I hope Perez gets a number of save opportunities so he can continue to mature, like K-Mac. If they both get a lot of experience this month, it will be for the good come next year. Let all the young guys with the strong arms pitch and see who we have to complement Carp and Waino next year.
by ccthemovieman on Sep 2, 2008 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
mostly agree
but K-Mac has looked a little tired lately. By that, I mean his pitch command doesn’t seem as sharp as early in the year. I hope they space out his outings down the stretch so he doesn’t get too stressed.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Sep 2, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still angry about getting swept by the astros
still haven’t gotten over that, so I can’t comprehend the loss to the diamondbacks yet
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2008 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
stros
i was at both sat/sun games, and i’m with you; angry. i still cant believe we werent able to get much off of the likes of moehler and wandy.
something i noticed about the cards this trip was, they didnt seem to be enjoying themselves all that much pre/game. ive been to every series that theyve been in houston since ‘05 and this was the flattest i’ve seen em, save ank’s shot, top 1, game 2. after that, it seemed like emotion left and it was “settle in on cruise”. 6 runs later, before the first out, and heads were hangin, players werent up on the rail anymore; nothin.
sunday’s game was just awful to watch, surrounded by stros “fans” and me in my Cardinal red. i wont rehash, but it felt like saturday all over again
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Sep 2, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the one time I saw the team this year
they had that same feel, sort of underwhelmed or something. like they weren’t supposed to try that game. kinda weird. I suppose it’s some sort of hangover from the trade deadline, the brewers sweep, etc. as someone mentioned, it has been really sad to see this team lose heart.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it has been really sad to see this team lose heart.
+2
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Sep 2, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: anthony reyes
realize this is off topic, but it didn’t really fit in with the other reyes discussion above. i’ve been wondering; how much of the collective frustration and/or disappointment with reyes, both from his supporters and his critics, is due from the fact that he carried the org’s “no. 1 prospect” label? correct me if i’m wrong, but isn’t our farm system much better right now than it was when he was the number 1 guy? in hindsight, should there have been the same kind of expectation that he would succeed that we place on say, colby rasmus? if a similarly talented pitcher who was further down the prospect chart, so to speak, was jerked around the same way and ended up not succeeding with our club, would that pitcher have the same kind of emotional resonance with us fans that reyes did? have these questions already been done to death around here making my post a waste of time and space? discuss!
by mattybobo on Sep 2, 2008 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Look at the Adam Wainwright situation
Dave and Tony tried to flex their muscles by putting Wainwright into the bullpen. They couldn’t even broach the idea of putting Chris Carpenter in there, a pitcher that was coming back from a worse injury. So, they put Carpenter in the rotation and sent Adam to Memphis to get ready to be a middle reliever.
Wainwright says he’s ready to start, wants to start and has the stuff to start. For all intents and purposes, he’s going to be used as a reliever. And guess what happens? Carpenter injures himself pushing too hard as a starter. Common occurrence for a starter returning from TJ. Wainwright gets fast tracked back to St. Louis as a starter, starts and looks like he hasn’t missed a beat. Yet, even in that light, Tony won’t commit to giving him a full-time starters job. They still flirt with the notion that he’ll return to the bullpen when Carpenter comes back from the DL. Unfortunately for them, Carpenter’s condition appears to linger on and on into September. Plan foiled.
Now, you could make the argument that Chris Carpenter is a better pitcher than Adam Wainwright and you’d probably be right. But, from a prospect standpoint, Adam Wainwright is the best pitcher in our system. He’s the best starter the Cardinals will have probably for the next 4 seasons. Yet, he still gets yanked around by the duo braintrust.
And yes, it angers me as much as the way they treated Reyes. It’s this machismo thing where you can’t simply intentionally walk a guy, you’ve got to pitch around them (lost us a game on Friday), where you have to ‘earn’ your spot on the team, even though you are clearly better than the alternative, and you have to ‘respect’ the game, meaning no smiling, pull your socks down and don’t forget your sunglasses because you don’t want to anger the sun gods either.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reyes matched up well with prospects from other organizations
he wasn’t just #1 in a weak org. he was in the top 50 mlb-wide for 2 straight years. he would have been ranked #1 or #2 in all but a couple of organizations.
by lboros on Sep 2, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahh. see, that i did not know.
hardcore’s perspective was very interesting. part of the reason i’m asking these questions is because i’ve become so numb about the whole reyes thing. i don’t remember a lot of the story, and barely know what to make of it all anymore. (hopefully “no. 1 pick” pete kozma’s story will end up brighter… apples to oranges, i know, but i could see the potential for him being regarded as a waste of a number 1 draft pick)
and just for the record, i’m asking all these questions sincerely, and i’m not going for any one particular angle.
by mattybobo on Sep 2, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AHH, mattybobo....
Lay around, dream away the place I’m from
Call a friend or two I don’t know anymore
I could go out to night but I don’t know what for
I used to feel so much, now I just feel numb
See, you throw out a word like numb, and lyrics pop into my head…now I have to go get my CD’s. Yeah, I refuse to buy an i-pod.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 2, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers?
I love the way we everyone likes to throw out numbers to prove their point and totally avoid LaRussa/Duncan numbers. If you want stats take a look at what this tandem has accomplished. After looking over there past and current successes how can anyone take Reyes small sampling of numbers and try and prove LaRussa/Duncan don’t know what they are doing. Since you guys like stats so much why don’t we throw out some stats for this tandem like their number or Pennants or World Series victories. Even if Reyes wins a Cy young (lol) you still cannot dispute Tony and Dave’s success in the big leagues. I’ve asked this before who would you rather have at the helm?
by okiecardfan on Sep 2, 2008 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Numbers for Tony LaRussa
- one of only 2 managers to have 2 teams swept in the World Series.
- since June 1st, 2006, St. Louis Cardinals have been 201-207, 6 games below .500.
- The St. Louis Cardinals have not been 17 games over .500 since the end of the 2005 season.
- In St. Louis, Tony LaRussa is 1129 – 951(.542 winning percentage).
- Tony LaRussa’s Cardinals playoff record is 39-31(.557). He is 17-5 in Divisional rounds, 15-22 in Championship Rounds, and 4-5 in the World Series.
All in all, it was a below average run for the first 4 years, exceptional (yet disappointing) run for the next 6, and now a frustrating (though suprisingly rewarding) run these last 3.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might be 15-22 in the LCS and 4-5 in the WS
but I bet there’s a lot of managers who are 0-0 in both of those situations.
I just think he’s gonna be missed when he’s gone, that’s all.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll miss batting the pitcher 8th
the most.
I’ll also miss McKay’s awkward shoulder rubs at 1st base, end with an affirmative, open hand butt slap.
Hopefully Oquendo gets the gig and keeps that stuff around.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as baseball is played, slapping butts will be in vogue
Hey, I’ve coached first base. That’s part of the gig.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've seen pujols give some vigorous butt slaps to opposing runners on first base
i’d consider a shoulder rub more awkward than a butt slap; for whatever reason the butt slap is just a sports “guy” thing.
by mattybobo on Sep 2, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so fast
It’s creeping its way into women’s beach vollyball, and that’s not a bad thing.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pitcher batting eighth
HL, don’t know if your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek, but that is a subject I have been thinking about a lot lately, at least indirectly. What I have really been thinking about is whether Albert should really bat third. After all, the main reason TLR bats the pitcher eighth is because it helps put extra runners on base in front of Pujols after the first inning, right?
It seems to me that the primary reason TLR bats Albert first is that he wants him to come to the plate in the first inning. However, I think the calculation for the first inning leads to Albert hitting with nobody on and two out slightly over 50% of the time. My rationale is that since our 1 hole and two hole hitters are averaging .352 and .354 (per b-r) that the chance of having one runner on is about 35. The chance of having two runners on is about 47.5. Those numbers are probably just a tad high as sometimes those guys either drive someone in, hit homeruns, ground into double plays, etc.
So it would seem that hitting Albert third gives you about a 55% chance he is going to bat with the bases empty in the first. If you bat him fourth then he will either bat in the first with at least one runner one almost 100% of the time or he will lead off the second. If Albert has to bat with the bases empty then I would just as soon there were no outs. Lastly, if he bats fourth we can probably get slightly better on base percentages ahead of him as you would essentially be trading out a ninth place hitter with a .320 OBP for a third place hitter with an OBP more like .370.
Now, you could still bat the pitcher eighth, but I wouldn’t get the point any more.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Sep 2, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also bats him 3rd.....
Because over the course of the season, it gets him about 20 more AB’s than if he’d hit 4th.
by SoonerfanTU on Sep 2, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I understand
so far this season the 4 hole has 8 less PAs than the 3 hole. I would rather have him bat 10-12 less times over the course of a season rather than pretty much guarantee him 89 PAs with two outs and the bases empty. Of course, if I thought opponents would actually pitch to him with two outs and the bases empty in a close game (usually is in the first) then I would maximize the PAs.
If we had someone to hit in the 2 hole I think Ludwick would be a great #3 hitter. I think they would pitch to him with two outs and the bases empty if Albert was on deck.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Sep 2, 2008 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about glaus #2?
the ******* plane has crashed into the mountain.
by SleepyCA on Sep 2, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't slap butts when you are the mom, though.
They told me in no uncertain terms it would not be allowed.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 2, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's understandable
Moms are embarrassing. It’s like you mom’s do it on purpose!!!!!!
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
their success is acknowledged
and they’ve gotten plenty of credit at this site for their good decisions. but they are not infallible. if they were wrong about reyes, that’s a costly mistake. are we supposed to pretend that it wasn’t?
every manager (or mgr team) is a mixed bag, with strengths and weakneses. tony / dave are no different.
by lboros on Sep 2, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
costly mistake yes, rehash daily please no...
I don’t think many if any of the readers on this site suggests that the reyes situation should be ignored. I for one believe judgment should be delayed until at least 10 starts in the AL for Reyes.
As to the starts given to Pineiro, shouldn’t that fall on Mo’s head as much as LaRussa? Mo signed Pineiro to the two year deal on 10/15, LaRussa signed a two year deal on 10/22. Budgets do impact the game, otherwise AK wouldn’t he around.
by ubeddie on Sep 2, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1k
TLR and Duncan have had way more successes than failures. I still think Reyes did or said something, or didn’t do something he should have, and that is why he was in the dog house like hew was. Otherwise, all the other examples we can give, including other players that were young, unproven, and in cases arrogant or “colorful” simply don’t make sense.
by SoonerfanTU on Sep 2, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
since we're doling out opinions
as much as I like TLR, I think that someone else could have done a better job with this team this year.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who?
This is not snark, but a real question. I have thought about this very question quite a bit during the season and I can’t think of anyone I would rather have leading this team. Ignoring whether or not they have a contract past this year with their current team, who among active managers would you rather have? Or is there someone without a managing gig right now that you think could get the job done?
by cardsgirl95 on Sep 2, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
basically
I think someone that would have taken a few more risks and actually would have been less traditional and numbers based… granted, TLR is not the most traditional manager around, but I think that there’s someone out there that could have done better and stayed ahead of the curve, but probably not an established manager. I think that we would have won a few more games if we had realized what we had with Ludwick sooner, gave the starters more established roles with less platooning in both the lineup and at positions, etc. and of course would have given Perez the closer role much sooner. but like I said, this is just opinion, and I think this probably would have yielded but a few more wins anyway. I say VEB should be manager by committee, heh
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this "someone" have a name
or are they imaginary? Just kidding!
by cardsgirl95 on Sep 2, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right now
they are imaginary. although I think it would be fun to give it a try! j/k
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
managers dont take risks
at least not many…TLR probably takes more than most, i.e. hitting pitcher 8th, implementing the modern bullpen, hitting a power bat in the two hole…these are thing most managers wouldnt do becuase they are too worried about their jobs.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Sep 2, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Charlie Manuel bats Chase Utley #2
but he’s also blessed with Howard and Burrell.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't utley hit third for the phils?
i thought they usually went rollins-victorino-utley-howard-burrell.
by Phizzle on Sep 2, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes
I know over the weekend in Chicago he hit 2nd behind Rollins.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
over time
i’ve come to the conclusion that tlr would rather be different than right
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Sep 2, 2008 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can come to that conclusion
then I can say that to suggest LaRussa would rather be different than right is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny you say that.....
Since we’ll likely finish with a better record than 90% of people thought we’ve have to begin with, and that was done with numerous injuries.
by SoonerfanTU on Sep 2, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is funny
because I was one of the people who said we’d do good this year. I’m nothing if not contrary, at times. the main thing I’m getting at is there probably are people out there that could do a better job, but since we’re talking about a very establishment based system, they probably won’t be given a chance, if they could even be located.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1+
You can get lost with all the stats – bottom line is winning the most with what talent you have, and it’s tough to argue what LaRussa-Duncan have accomplished.
by ccthemovieman on Sep 2, 2008 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it might be time to shut McClellan down
He’s had a good year, but he’s also logged a lot of innings. He’s showing signs of tiring and has had some arm troubles in the past.
Just rest him and save him for games that count. Everyone knows he’s going to be a big part of the team next year already anyway. Let some guys you aren’t sure about, like Motte, get work and make an evaluation on their roles for next year now.
by Merry CRasmus on Sep 2, 2008 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I keep hearing people say this.....
But if you keep shutting people down, they never learn to stretch themselves out. If we shut K-mac down now, what happens to him in late September next year?
by SoonerfanTU on Sep 2, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been stretched out
He leads the pen in appearances and innings (63 & 70). That’s a pretty solid workload, don’t really want to see it increased in future years, assuming he’s staying in the pen.
by Merry CRasmus on Sep 2, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aren't you supposed to only increase a young pitcher's workload
by 20% from their previous career high as the seasons go along?
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: RIP Jerry Reed
Reed died today of complications from emphysema. Age 71.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN8dP4CoFaw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWG_R6SjUNY
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
East Bound and Down
Load it up and Truckin, we’re going to do what they say can’t be done. We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
RIP Snowman!
by KYCards on Sep 2, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew you'd appreciate the info
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Sep 2, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Claw
even better than Jerry’s stints in Smokey & Dukes of Hazzard, the dude was an absolute MFer of a guitar player. You tube is blocked for me at work, but check out his version of The Claw sometime.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Sep 2, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also: RIP Don LaFontaine
AKA ‘the guy with the cool voice in those movie previews’
by Phizzle on Sep 2, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in a world where the cubs win a world series
our world will come crashing down
that guys voice was awesome. i who will do voice overs now?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2008 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Scott Terry
Was he really a “call up”?
The Cards traded Pat Perry to the Reds in late August for Terry, who was playing for the Reds AAA team. Terry came straight to the Cardnals.
I’m surprised you didn’t note the link between Perry and Terry in your post LB.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Sep 2, 2008 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i wasn't aware of that
thanks for the info hal -- i missed the connection entirely (ironic, eh? i wrote about both guys . . . . .) anyway, it sounds like terry doesn’t really fit on this list.
by lboros on Sep 2, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just really remember that trade
for the names – Perry for Terry.
Now if we just had a player named “Falladay” or “Mincecum”………
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Sep 2, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd even take...
a player right now named “Polliday” and/or “Fanley Shamirez.”
by stlfan on Sep 2, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I think Base Buttley is a player on the rise
and has a great baseball name, I’d move him in a package if need be.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok you guys are killing me. hahahah
n/t
by sdrone on Sep 2, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't there a story about one of those guys
Perry or Terry.
that one won $10,000 on a scratcher then the next week won another $10,000 on another scratcher?
Like his teammates were giving him shit for wasting money on the lotto and he was like really guys because I just won 10K and the next week they were giving him more shit for buying the lotto after winning 10K and he was like really guys because this is another winner.
by Harknights on Sep 2, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone else take hope from Tewksbury
Seems like PJ Walters might be a clone if we are lucky.
by DriverZn on Sep 2, 2008 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It would be cool if he were. He didn't have a very good season in AAA though.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Sep 2, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs



















